Alease Brickers interview recording, 1995 July 26

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Blair Murphy	Okay. Could you please state your full name, your date of birth, and your place of birth for the tape?	0:01
Alease Virginia Brickers	My full name is Alease, Virginia Balmer. B-A-L-M-E—No, wait a minute. Hold it. My name is Alease Virginia Brickers.	0:06
Blair Murphy	And Balmer was your maiden name?	0:21
Alease Virginia Brickers	Mm-hmm.	0:31
Blair Murphy	How do you spell Balmer?	0:33
Alease Virginia Brickers	B-A-L-M-E-R, Balmer. Now you asked me—	0:34
Blair Murphy	Where you were born?	0:44
Alease Virginia Brickers	I was born in Seaboard, North Carolina.	0:45
Blair Murphy	And what year were you born?	0:57
Alease Virginia Brickers	May the 22nd, 1913.	0:57
Blair Murphy	I was born on 21st.	0:57
Alease Virginia Brickers	You were?	0:59
Blair Murphy	May 21st.	0:59
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, bless your heart.	0:59
Blair Murphy	Okay. Could you tell me what it was like when you were a little girl, what you remember about your parents and where you lived?	1:03
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah. We lived in Seaboard, but my parents farmed, but they worked on the farm. Some people lived on the farm, but we didn't live on the farm. We had to drive back and forth to the farm.	1:10
Blair Murphy	And did your parents own the land that they farmed?	1:34
Alease Virginia Brickers	No.	1:36
Blair Murphy	Okay. Did they rent it?	1:37
Alease Virginia Brickers	They just lived on it and worked at the farm.	1:42
Blair Murphy	For someone else?	1:45
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah. The farm, worked for someone else.	1:46
Blair Murphy	And what type of work did they do on the farm?	1:49
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well, picked cotton, peanuts. Yeah, peanuts and cotton and that's all—Oh, and tobacco.	1:52
Blair Murphy	And they lived in another place?	2:06
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well, they lived close by the farm, but they didn't live right on the farm, no.	2:14
Blair Murphy	And did your parents keep a garden?	2:20
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, yes, we had a beautiful garden, yes.	2:22
Blair Murphy	And did you have animals of your own, like some chickens or some-	2:25
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, we had chickens, we had dogs. We had hogs. We had that.	2:29
Blair Murphy	And how many siblings, brothers and sisters did you have?	2:37
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, there was six of us. Three brothers and three sisters. And it's only two of us living now.	2:39
Blair Murphy	How old were you, what order?	2:55
Alease Virginia Brickers	I'm the oldest one.	2:58
Blair Murphy	Oh, okay.	2:58
Alease Virginia Brickers	I'm 82.	2:58
Blair Murphy	Okay. And so what do you remember about living in Seaboard? What types of things would you do when you hung out?	3:05
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well, I remember going to the farm with my parents and picking cotton, which was a hard job for me, because I didn't like to bend over and pick the cotton. I'd have to crawl. They told me I could crawl. So I liked to crawl. And of course, we'd have to pull the peanuts and put them on a pole. And I enjoyed that. I know about that. That, and of course on Saturdays, we would do this five days. Saturdays we'd have to help my parents take care of the house. We had a large yard and our job was to keep the yard clean. My aunt and my mother, they did washing and ironing for the White people, of course. And after we'd get through in the mornings, after we finished the yard and our work around the house, then we'd go in, get a bath, get cleaned up, and take the people's clothes.	3:10
Blair Murphy	Take them from the—	4:45
Alease Virginia Brickers	Deliver the clothes to the White people. That was our job. And after we'd come back home and give my parents the money, then we would walk up to what they called, walk up the Seaboard, that was in town. We couldn't go in the drug store and sit down and eat, but we could go in and buy some ice cream or a soda and come out and eat.	4:46
Blair Murphy	But you couldn't stand in there?	5:26
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, no. And our recreation would be, all of us get together and socialize in town, outside of the stores and all, and watch the train go and come.	5:27
Blair Murphy	And so there'd be a lot of families that came?	5:51
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah, right. And that was our social life. And of course, we had a little house, like store that the Black people could go and sit down and socialize together and do a little dancing.	5:53
Blair Murphy	So Black owned?	6:17
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, yes. Because anything White, we couldn't go in there-	6:17
Blair Murphy	And stay.	6:21
Alease Virginia Brickers	We could go into the grocery store and buy some groceries and that would be it. But as far as socializing, most of our socializing would be home. I'd go to your house and you'd come to my house and this would be that.	6:22
Blair Murphy	Where was the Black store located?	6:37
Alease Virginia Brickers	In town.	6:40
Blair Murphy	It was in town?	6:41
Alease Virginia Brickers	Mm-hmm. See then there, we didn't have a place like Lindenwood, Huntersville, places named like that. Everything was just in town. My parents would say, "Alease, go in town and get the groceries," or something. It was in town. In town. It wasn't like you go to—	6:41
Blair Murphy	[indistinct 00:07:03].	7:03
Alease Virginia Brickers	—Huntersville or go to Lindenwood or go this place. Go in town and get what they needed and come back home. And of course, the majority of the groceries would be in the store. But now the good meats, when the train come on Saturdays, the train would get to Seaboard about 12 o'clock. And we could go up there and buy beef, meats like that. It would be good meat though. I'll tell you honey. It wouldn't be the meats like now.	7:03
Alease Virginia Brickers	And take it back home to my mother-in-law. And of course, I remember my family would have to wash on the outside. We did not have no washing machines. We didn't have anything like that. We had just a regular tin tub and a wooden tub. And my mother and my aunt, they would wash the clothes on the outside. And my aunt, she even made her soap.	7:44
Blair Murphy	She made it herself?	8:26
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yes, she would save all the grease, like she'd fry ham, cook ham, all the grease, and save that. And then she would make the soap. And after making the soap, then she would put it out to dry. Then she would cut it in—	8:27
Blair Murphy	In a square?	8:44
Alease Virginia Brickers	Lard and grease. And of course, our john, I guess we would call that the outhouse. We had that on the outside. And our toilet tissue was Montgomery Ward. (both laugh)	8:47
Blair Murphy	Paper?	9:06
Alease Virginia Brickers	And Sears and Roebuck.	9:07
Blair Murphy	The catalog?	9:08
Alease Virginia Brickers	The catalog. That was our toilet tissue. And— Am I going too fast for you?	9:09
Blair Murphy	Oh, no.	9:16
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, okay. So usually they would have revival—They call it revival now, but they called it tracted meetings in North Carolina then. So before time for the—I'll say revival started, of course, you'd have to clean up the house and take some line, clean the floor good and everything, get ready for the revival. And the preacher, of course, he'd have to go to the people's house and eat. And my daddy always told my mama, said, "When the preacher—" He called his name Boone—No, that wasn't his name. I'm sorry.	9:17
Blair Murphy	That's okay.	10:07
Alease Virginia Brickers	Anyway, he said, "When he comes here, my children is going to sit at the table with him." See a lot of people, when the preacher come to eat, the children would have to wait until he ate. But my daddy said, "No, my children is going to sit. And when he ate a chicken leg, my children was going to eat a chicken leg." See?	10:08
Blair Murphy	Because he didn't want you to go without?	10:31
Alease Virginia Brickers	No, because I mean, he didn't see any reason why his children should stay outside and wait until the preacher sit down and eat. A lot of people did it though. A lot of people did it, but my daddy didn't. I'm trying to think as I go along.	10:33
Blair Murphy	This is great.	10:49
Alease Virginia Brickers	Other things. And then I had a cousin that worked on the Seaboard railroad. And I had an uncle to die, and my cousin said to my mother—and my father had died there and said, "Why don't you all move to Norfolk?" Because he lived in Norfolk. But Seaboard train, ran from Portsmouth through North Carolina. And so he talked my family in moving to Norfolk. And that's how we got to Norfolk.	10:51
Blair Murphy	Okay. You said before that you didn't go to school when you were in North Carolina?	11:35
Alease Virginia Brickers	I went, it was called Seaboard school. I went, not long, you see, because I was 12 years old when I came here, you see. And so I remember going, but not enough to really say—	11:41
Blair Murphy	Say something about it.	11:57
Alease Virginia Brickers	Mm-hmm. And then when I came—Now that's my life, and of course, we had to go to church, of course the church, each Sunday there was a different church service at a different place. Say for instance, Seaboard, Mount Zion, places like that. But now, we had to go to Sunday school every Sunday morning. And then I had a cousin that had a horse and buggy, and he would tell us if we went to Sunday school—He knew we had to go anyhow. But he would say, if we went to Sunday school, we could get that horse and buggy in the evening and ride around in Seaboard. And that was just like a Cadillac to us. Because the horse was white and he kept it great. Clean, beautiful, and everything. So we enjoyed taking that horse and buggy, riding around in Seaboard, which wasn't far to go, but we did it. And that's about it far as Seaboard is concerned.	11:59
Blair Murphy	Okay. So then you moved to Norfolk?	13:16
Alease Virginia Brickers	I can't think of anything else. I do know that I had an uncle to die in Seaboard. And the undertaker, he was White, but that was the only undertaker we had. So on one side of his business, it was a livery stable, they called it. And on the other side was the undertaker, the funeral home. And of course then, they would bring the bodies back to the house and put it in the living room across the fireplace. And that's where it stayed until the funeral. Because then they had the funeral, maybe the third day. They didn't keep them up four and five days like they do now. And I remember, we rode to the cemetery in a surrey. You know how to spell it, don't you?	13:21
Blair Murphy	No.	14:29
Alease Virginia Brickers	I don't either, so you can guess. (laughs)	14:31
Blair Murphy	What did you ride in?	14:31
Alease Virginia Brickers	A buggy. Basically a buggy. (laughs) The only difference in the buggy, the surrey had two seats and the buggy had one. So we'll say—	14:32
Blair Murphy	Two seats?	14:45
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah, buggy. So now that's my life in Seaboard. When I came to Norfolk, I started at school.	14:46
Blair Murphy	Where did you live in Norfolk when you got here?	14:59
Alease Virginia Brickers	In Lindenwood.	15:02
Blair Murphy	Lindenwood. Okay.	15:02
Alease Virginia Brickers	My cousin had gotten us an apartment, because he lived in the same building. So he got us an apartment and my oldest brother, and my cousin, which is Irene and I, we came to Norfolk first. And then after, we got straight in the house and everything, then we went back and got the rest of the family and brought them here.	15:07
Blair Murphy	So you came before your parents came?	15:39
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah.	15:41
Blair Murphy	So how old was your oldest brother?	15:43
Alease Virginia Brickers	[indistinct 00:15:49] age, but he was older than I. He was older than I am.	15:49
Blair Murphy	But you were only 12?	15:53
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah. So he was a few years older than I. And so my first school was Lindenwood. Wait a minute, hold it. J.C. Price. That was the name of the school. J.C. Price School. From there, I went to Dunbar School. That was junior high. I did not go to high school. I didn't go to high school, because my reason for that, see it was a hard time in Norfolk, as well as elsewhere. You didn't make no money. My parents didn't make money, so I had to help my mother. So I worked.	15:55
Blair Murphy	So was this during the depression?	16:52
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, yeah. I would work, go to school, because the family that I worked for, they really helped me to go to school, because they had a store. And when I got ready to go home, they'd say, "Alease, fix your lunch for tomorrow," and give me my writing paper. I worked for some very, very nice White people. I really did. I can't say that I worked for any bad White people.	16:54
Blair Murphy	So you started working for her—	17:34
Alease Virginia Brickers	At an early age.	17:35
Blair Murphy	In your teenage years?	17:37
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, yes.	17:39
Blair Murphy	And did your mother do domestic work, as well?	17:39
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, yes. And when my mother started working here in Norfolk honey, she was making $5 a week. But see the White people helped her, because she would give her food to bring home to her children. And if they had boys, they would give my mother the boys clothes that they didn't need. And if they had girls, they would do the same for us. And we wore their clothes to school. But we went to school and we looked nice when we went to school, because they gave my mother good clothes. And that was the only two schools that I went. J.C. Price and Dunbar. They were the schools. One was elementary and the other one was junior high. Then shortly after that, I went to a church. I started going to a Sunday school. And as of today, I still belong to that same church.	17:42
Blair Murphy	Which church did you go to?	18:55
Alease Virginia Brickers	At that time it was Union Christian Congregational Christian Church. But now it's Union United Church of Christ. But it's a Methodist. It's not a Holiness. And on my wall right there, those two plaques. And that was when we had our 75th anniversary. They honored me. And that's a 63-year—	18:57
Blair Murphy	Membership.	19:29
Alease Virginia Brickers	Membership plaque. And the other one is a 50-year plaque from the choir.	19:30
Blair Murphy	Oh, that's nice.	19:36
Alease Virginia Brickers	Because see, the lady heard me sitting in the congregation and they heard me sing. And they found out then that I had a voice, that I could sing. And they just took me under their wing. And I grew up. And the only reason that I'm not in the choir, now is because I had a thyroid operation and it left my voice different. But they're after me now, to come back in the choir and I want to go back, because I do, I love to sing. And I have always worked in the church. We have six ministers. We've had six ministers as pastor at our church. And I have been there under all six of them. And one of the six baptized me. So I have been in the church and still in there. I don't go as much as I did, because I'm sick. But other than that.	19:41
Blair Murphy	How was Norfolk different than where you were in North Carolina?	20:47
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, my goodness Norfolk, it was a little different. I mean, people, White and Black in North Carolina didn't use that segregation as much as they did in the city. As far as I can see, they didn't do it.	20:48
Blair Murphy	It was more formal?	21:15
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yes, because in the country, White people lived probably—which they did in front of where we lived. And as I said, the children, they mixed. They went together. They played together. They didn't know nothing about, "Don't you play with that child." We all played together and we had a good time. And we would walk from home, downtown and get that little ice cream together. And my mother didn't say, "Oh, hey Alease, don't you play with this one, don't you play with that." We all played together. We didn't know no different. So my life—or our life, I should say, in North Carolina was beautiful. It was really beautiful. I wasn't even old enough to know a whole lot of this stuff that they have now, like these histories that I see on television. I guess I would have died if they had treated me like they treated some of these people, especially that roots. I know I would've, but I had a good life. We had a good life in Norfolk.	21:18
Blair Murphy	In Norfolk, it was a little bit more—	22:26
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, Lord, yes. You couldn't go to the White bathroom. You couldn't ride—Everything. It was segregated, and I mean, they used the word segregated. And so finally, they integrated it. And when I went to school, it was all Black school, in North Carolina and Virginia too. It was an all Black school and an all White school. But really we found out more about the segregation business after we moved to Norfolk, than we did in North Carolina. And I think a lot of Black people can say the same thing after they moved into the city. But you didn't make a lot of money in the country like you did in the city. Because if we picked cotton, they'd pay us about $2 if we picked a hundred pounds of cotton. And I never picked—I tried, but I tried.	22:30
Alease Virginia Brickers	And I know one time I was trying, and I told my cousin, I said "I'm"— First, my cousin said, you know, we weighed up—They had to weigh a cotton at the end of the day. And he weighed mine. I had one little 50 pounds of cotton. So I said to my cousin, I said, "Elnora, I'm going to pick a hundred pounds of cotton tomorrow." So sure enough, every time Elnora would go and empty her bag of cotton, I'd empty mine. I thought I had some cotton. I would empty mine. She'd empty hers. But see what she was doing, she was packing her bag and I was just selling mine.	23:46
Alease Virginia Brickers	I was just selling mine, and so when we weighed up that night, I had 50 pounds of cotton. I never picked a hundred pounds. But my cousin said, "Alease, I'm going to pay you for a hundred pounds." And that was $2. That was a lot of money. I thought I had $50. So that's my life. Now if you find you want to ask me something, if I can answer it, I'll be glad to.	24:38
Blair Murphy	Okay. You said before that you were in the NAACP?	25:14
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, yes. I belonged in the NAACP. Oh, yes.	25:19
Blair Murphy	So when did you join that?	25:33
Alease Virginia Brickers	I joined the NAACP about 1975, something like that. I'm still in that. And I belong to the City Democratic Club. I belong to the Black Winners Democratic Club. I was a senator with the Silver Hair Legislature. And that was to help the elderly get some of the funds that was due them. That's what that was all about. And we had another organization where I belonged to the ELTS. Belonged to that. And we had another organization that was all Black, and that was called Concerned Citizens. And that too, was to help people get funds that was due them and anything else that we could help the community. Say, for instance, if they were going to take a community from—go down to the city council and speak up for the people. I read in a paper this morning, where they wanted to take a community and put some kind of business there.	25:42
Alease Virginia Brickers	And so we have two Black men on our city council. And I saw where one of them voted Tuesday night—last night for them not to do this. See, if they do that, that would be taking the residential section. And he told them that he didn't think that they should do that. So I saw that he opened his mouth. Usually our Black men on city council, they might say one or two things, but they really don't talk up like they should.	27:12
Alease Virginia Brickers	So I called him this morning and I told him that I wanted to congratulate him, because he did open his mouth. It was in this morning's paper. So he said, "Well Ms. Brickers, I thank you and I want you to get some petitions for me. I said, "Well, Mr. Riddick, I'm sick, but I will go to church and take those petitions. If you get them to me, I will take them." And see, when I take things like that to the church, I get it done. Even in here, everything in this 225 tenants in this building, and they all vote at my precinct. And I've been a committee woman at that precinct for 24 years. And they vote at my precinct. I get things done.	27:52
Alease Virginia Brickers	And so if he gets me those—because see what is happening, they had taken a lot of the Black community and telling them, "When you move, we going to build some nice houses for you." But that's a lie. They're not building those houses. They're putting houses there that is so high, you can't buy them unless you got the money. See, and this is what we have got to stop. But our Black people have got to go to these meetings, these city council meetings and all of that, and let them know.	28:46
Alease Virginia Brickers	Now, my Black legislatures in Congress from Virginia, I keep up with them. I go to Washington and tell them what I want them to do. If there's a bill coming up in Congress, that I think would help the Black people, I tell them I want them to vote for it or against it. And I love political work. Now, I love that. I love the church and I do work in the church, but I love-	29:29
Blair Murphy	So how did you become so interested in politics?	30:08
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well, we had a lawyer. I don't know if you've heard of him. You probably have, where are you from?	30:12
Blair Murphy	I'm from New Jersey.	30:19
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, you are? I have some relatives in New Jersey. Joe Jordan, and he was interested in politics. And for somehow or another, I don't know, we met and I started working with him. And we had another lady here by the name of Evelyn Butts. She fought integration in the school. And just like you and I meeting there, I met her and we started working together. And that's how I got interested in politics. And I am interested in politics.	30:21
Blair Murphy	So do you think that now, this is a good opportunity for African Americans? Because when you were growing up, Black people didn't have a say.	30:59
Alease Virginia Brickers	It is a beautiful opportunity. But our Black people—not all of them, but a lot of them—I'll use that, a lot. They go to the polls, they vote for the Black candidate and that's all. They don't keep up with what they are doing. And if there's bills that's coming up, city council or the Congress and you know that bill is going to help your community, then you write your legislature and tell him to vote for or against that bill. And people use the word, "They aren't going to do nothing after they get that." No, I'm not going to do nothing unless you ask me. No, they're not. And they think, okay, I'll just go to the polls and I'll vote for them. And that's it. But you got to let these people know that you want them. You put them there, and the same way you put them there, you can take them down, because you don't have to vote for them the next time they run, see?	31:08
Alease Virginia Brickers	And so this is what I do. And that's why you see those tapes there, because I know what's happening. There's two channels. C span one and C span two, I know what's going on in Congress. And my denomination, they write me the bills that's coming up in Congress and they want me to write our legislatures and ask them to vote for it or against it, support it. And I do. And I have the evidence that I do these things, see? And I love working.	32:33
Blair Murphy	Do you remember who the people in your community were, when you were in Norfolk growing up? Who did the types of things that you do now, to ensure that they're—	33:28
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well, Mrs. Evelyn Butts was one of them, I know.	33:38
Blair Murphy	When you were younger?	33:45
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well yeah, younger. Oh, yes, younger. Because Mrs. Butts was the first Black in Norfolk that—or the school board to get integration in the school. Evelyn Butts	33:47
Blair Murphy	In the late fifties?	34:08
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah, probably. Yeah, late fifties. Maybe a little earlier than that.	34:10
Blair Murphy	Okay. And she did that type work?	34:20
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yes.	34:22
Blair Murphy	Before integration came?	34:23
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yes.	34:25
Blair Murphy	Was there anyone else?	34:27
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well, there was other women that worked with her, along with me. We worked with her, to do these things. And she was a—What do you call it, actis?	34:30
Blair Murphy	Activist?	34:44
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yes.	34:48
Blair Murphy	So you've been doing the site work since the fifties?	34:50
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah. Now when they had—if you remember. Well, I guess you do, sanctioned for South Africa?	34:50
Blair Murphy	Mm-hmm.	35:01
Alease Virginia Brickers	I went to Washington. I paid my own way. I went to Washington, I lobbied. I marched for sanction in South Africa three times, when they had Solidarity Day in Washington. I went and I marched. I have marched here for AIDS, walk. We call it a Walkathon for AIDS. I am interested in all of that. Well, what else—	35:03
Blair Murphy	Do you think it was something in your early upbringing or something that made you be so interested?	35:54
Alease Virginia Brickers	No. I can't say my early. No, when I got here—Well, after I was here, and I mean I wasn't real young, but I was younger than I am now. I met these people and they got me concerned just like this lady at our church there, because she found out that I could sing. She, right away put me in the choir, started me singing. And I've been doing it. Well, same thing with politics. When they found out that I was interested in working with Mrs. Butts and others, then I just worked with them. And we did all of this. [indistinct 00:36:50].	36:00
Blair Murphy	Okay.	36:45
Alease Virginia Brickers	I have just retired from one family, 45—Are you taping that too?	36:54
Blair Murphy	Yeah, I'm taping it.	37:01
Alease Virginia Brickers	Okay, 45 years. And this is the family. This is the family right there. 45 years I worked for that family. And would be working—Well, they've retired anyway, because it's time [indistinct 00:37:20]. The oldest one is—Now this child right here, that's the one that called me on the phone and asked me could she interview me for University of North Carolina. And I gave her as much information as I could, about like you. Of course, she didn't ask me about my North Carolina life. So I gave her, so that would be two schools now. This would be Duke. Where did you go to school? Oh, you in [indistinct 00:37:54].	37:02
Alease Virginia Brickers	I'll tell you, I went to the employment agency for a job. And if she come in here right now, she would tell you how I looked, when I came for an interview for that job. I was dressed just like going to church. You hear people say, "If you go looking for a job dressed, you won't get it, because people think you don't need a job." Well see, I didn't feel that way. And I was dressed going to this job, just like I was going to church. I even had on furs, Kolinsky and white gloves. And so she was at her sister's house. Her sister lived on one corner and they lived on the other. And she saw me walking down the streets to the house. And she said, "I hope that lady isn't coming to my house." Because she knew she had applied for a maid. So when I turned in, she said, "Oh, my God, I don't want her to see me." But she came on over and we talked and I put that proper talk.	37:54
Alease Virginia Brickers	And she hired me that day, that day. That was 45 years ago. And I raised three children for her. The oldest child is 45 years old. And these children right here, they would go away and leave me with those children. And all three of us slept in the same bed. And the dog at the foot of the bed, wouldn't bite nobody. But I enjoyed working for them, because they were good to me. And let me tell you something, sweetheart. They are still good to me. They don't let me want for nothing. Not one thing. And they called me on the phone, even last night, "Do you need anything? You got plenty of food, you got this and you got that?" That's more than my family does. I have a sister live here. She doesn't even do that for me. They have been good to me.	39:10
Alease Virginia Brickers	I mean, they are good to me and I enjoy working for them. And when she got married, she got married in Raleigh, North Carolina. They flew me to North Carolina for the wedding. And I was treated just like they. I stayed in the same hotel that the family stayed in. I had a suite. They didn't put me in one little old room, with one or two beds. I had a suite, because I stayed in the Embassy Hotel and I had a good time. And this is the man she married. You see how close we are, don't you?	40:18
Blair Murphy	Mm-hmm.	41:06
Alease Virginia Brickers	That's the family. And this is my nephew and he's with the NBA basketball. Well, that's not the only White person that I have worked for.	41:09
Blair Murphy	Who did you start working for?	41:29
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, God. Oh, I think the name was White. Yeah, it was. But it's been a long time ago. That's been a long time ago. But they were good. And I went to New York for a little while.	41:31
Blair Murphy	When did you go to New York?	41:43
Alease Virginia Brickers	That was like 1942, because I was in New York during the war, second War. But I didn't stay long. I went up with my brother and while there, I got a job. See I worked for Jewish people. I like Jewish people. The Jewish people are good people to work for, those that I have worked for. And so that was my work.	41:47
Blair Murphy	So how long did you stay in New York?	42:21
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, I guess about maybe a year. That's all, because I got married in 1944. Yeah, I came back here. The war had broke out. And I wasn't about to say in New York. I came back home where I lived with my family at that time. But I never worked for no bad White people. Right today, even in this building here, these White people in here, they think—They act like it anyway. If they get in their apartment and say something different, I don't know. And I don't care. But they act like they think a lot of me and they prove it when I'm sick, because they come in and see if there's anything they can do for me. They send me cards, they're good to me, because as I say, I don't act like I'm scared of them or something like that. So I find White people all right. Far as I'm concerned.	42:24
Blair Murphy	So you got married here?	43:21
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yes, 1944.	43:22
Blair Murphy	Could you tell me a little bit about your husband?	43:25
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well, we didn't stay together that long, I'll tell you, because I didn't know it before I married him. But after we got married, he was sort of—not a bad alcoholic, but he did drink. And I didn't have time for that kind of stuff. So we just separated. We didn't stay together long. And I never had any children. But I raised—I have a nephew now, that's an undertaker here in Norfolk, works with an undertaker. And I raised him, but most of my children was the White children, because these are just like my children. I'll tell you. These children, the mother and the father and all of them, my family. In fact, they're so much my family, until he said, when I die, for my nephew to call him. And he was going to take it from there. So they going to take care of me even when I'm dead. What else, that I can help you with?	43:30
Blair Murphy	I guess I'd be interested in how New York was different than Norfolk and the things you saw and the things you experienced in New York.	44:43
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well see, when I was in New York, segregation was over.	44:55
Blair Murphy	No, it was in the forties, you said.	45:04
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah. Well, I didn't come in contact with—	45:05
Blair Murphy	Because they shouldn't have been segregated in New York. They should've been—	45:08
Alease Virginia Brickers	No, see, I didn't come in contact with that type of carrying on, really.	45:11
Blair Murphy	So it was different that it was in Norfolk?	45:17
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah, different. I didn't work that long in New York. I was just up there and I went to Philadelphia, but I didn't stay there either. But my cousin had a laundry there and I would help her in the laundry. Really and truly, I was in Norfolk most of my—	45:18
Blair Murphy	Most of the time?	45:35
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah. What else? Yeah, at that time, because the Black people had some place to go. We don't have any place to go now. We don't even have a restaurant on Church Street. We had three theaters. We had the Actus, we had the Booker T. and we had the Manhattan and we had the Linux. And the Black people, on Easter Sunday, they would get dressed and they'd walk down Church Street. Am I going too fast?	45:36
Blair Murphy	No.	46:15
Alease Virginia Brickers	And the White people would dress up and ride down Church Street, to see the Black people. Because honey, they were dressed to go to church. They'd go to church, then when they'd get out of church, they'd walk down Church Street and show their Easter. We can't even do that now. You are afraid to walk anywhere really. You really are afraid to go to military circle and places like that here now.	46:16

Blair Murphy	All right. Go ahead?	0:02
Alease Virginia Brickers	Halloween. The children could dress up and go out. You can't do that now. People now put apples—I mean razor blades in the apples, and things like that. And the poor little children, they can't go out and trick or treat.	0:04
Blair Murphy	Blacks used to do Halloween though?	0:17
Alease Virginia Brickers	White children either, but especially Black people, you can't do it. Because grown people would dress up Halloween, just like the children. You can't do it now. And don't forget that time was nice, and the churches of course, but it's different. It's just different. People are just so mean. I mean, they shoot the young people as well as the old people. The old people can't run, walk down the street, go to the stores, go to the shopping center, they can't do that. You go, they'll snatch their pocketbook, they'll take the cars, you just can't do it now like when I was growing up, you just can't. It's absolutely terrible.	0:19
Alease Virginia Brickers	And even in the school, young people is taking guns. They take guns to school, they shoot. I mean, people are just mean. They are mean. And when I was growing up, it wasn't like that. We get out of choir rehearsal, we could walk down Church Street to our house. We wasn't afraid, but I'm afraid to walk from here to the supermarket. And that's just down the street. And we've got another one down over there. And I don't walk to neither one of them.	1:15
Blair Murphy	So would you go clothes shopping on Church Street as well?	1:47
Alease Virginia Brickers	What's there for the—Oh, yes, yes. We had nice stores on Church Street. Sure, yes.	1:52
Blair Murphy	And so Church Street was all Black?	1:59
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, yeah. We had a lot of Jewish—	2:00
Blair Murphy	Jewish owned stores.	2:02
Alease Virginia Brickers	Owned stores, yeah. Because the Jewish people, they would have a store downstairs and they would live upstairs over the store until their children got grown. Then they would move out of the Black neighborhood. But at that time Black people needed the Jewish people because they would let them have a grocery book. And half the time the people didn't even realize how much they owed them. Because some of them couldn't even read and write. And they'd go and say, well, at the end of the week, "How much do owe you?" If they said $10, you pay them $10. You really didn't know whether you owed them $10—	2:06
Blair Murphy	Or not.	3:05
Alease Virginia Brickers	Or not. But they had to eat. And if you go in the store, or the child said, "Mama didn't have enough." "Well bring it to me later." They wouldn't let you walk out that store without what you went for. They would let you have it. But see—	3:07
Blair Murphy	They would get it eventually from you.	3:23
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, yeah. But see, White people, Gentile, we call them, they wouldn't do it. But a Jewish person will help you. Jewish people, they will help you. Now some of them is just like everybody else. But at that time on Church Street and Huntersville, that's where the Jews grew up in the Black neighborhood. Just like the China ones is growing up in the Black neighborhood. As soon as they get up, they move out.	3:24
Alease Virginia Brickers	But that's—Well, you know what? Our Black people is doing the same thing. Now, once upon a time, Black people could not go to Virginia Beach. The only way they could go down Virginia Beach is to work. And they had to go in the back door. They could not go in the front door. Even in the hotel, anywhere they worked, they had to go in the back door. Now, when they get a little money, I'm moving to Virginia Beach, I move into Virginia Beach. Why can't they take that same money and live in the Black community, right here in the city of Norfolk? If they got some extra money, build some houses so that the Black people can move in those houses.	4:04
Alease Virginia Brickers	Don't take that little money and take it down there, give it to the White people. The same thing about hotels, all these White hotels in the city of Norfolk. Black people save their money and come to these White hotels, take care of them. Why can't they pool their money together and build at least one nice hotel so that the Black people, say for instance, you coming from Jersey for a convention, bring it to the Black man. Will they do it? uh-huh. Because the average Black person don't patronize the Black people when they are in business, they don't do it.	5:09
Blair Murphy	And during segregation, you had no choice, but—	6:13
Alease Virginia Brickers	You had no choice, but you got one now. You got it, but use it. NAACP and the rest of these organizations come back to these White hotels. And at least they should have one, at least one nice hotel in Norfolk. Do they have it? No. We wanted to have a banquet next week and they had to go to a hotel, and they wanted to charge 18—Well, we had to pay $18 charge for the ticket. Now the church would get $3 and the hotel would get 15, because the tickets was 18.	6:16
Alease Virginia Brickers	Now, I tried to tell them, "Why can't we have a banquet at our own church and charge a little less? And you still make some money." But they don't do it. We have this Black paper, the Journal and Guide, they don't patronize the Journal and Guide like they should.	7:14
Blair Murphy	People used to read the Journal and Guide more often?	7:32
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah, they don't do it like they should. They just don't patronize the Black people like they should. But what can you? In these organizations, you talk to them, but no. Now there was a hotel on Granby Street, it was owned by Whites, and they went out of business. And I tried to—Then we had a Black club here and I tried to get the members of that club to buy this hotel. It wasn't a elaborate hotel, but it was a hotel that the Black people could stay, and no. But they'll take their money down to all these White hotels from one year to the other and they think they're doing something.	7:34
Alease Virginia Brickers	But one thing, our Black people don't want to trust one another. Everybody wants to be the boss. And you can't be the boss. You can work together, you should work together. But they don't work together. And we have a Black man right now, have a store, one I know. And the people patronize him because he does have nice grocery meats and stuff. But he could really build a nice supermarket. But he's got this little small store. As I said before, the Black people just don't patronize one another, and they're going to kill me talking about that Virginia Beach. "I'm going, I'm moving," "Oh, I lived in Virginia Beach." Big deal.	8:32
Blair Murphy	Because we weren't allowed to be in Virginia Beach before.	9:23
Alease Virginia Brickers	Honey, you go down there, the women go down there and be a maid in the back door. There's a district over here off Granby Street, in this vicinity, sort of, the Black people had to go in the back door. And well, some of them is moving over there. But build a nice Black neighborhood. Of course, I guess the Black people tear it up, because some of them do even. But I don't know. They just won't do it. They just won't patronize one another. They save their money and give it to the White man every year for these big conventions.	9:27
Blair Murphy	So when Black people used to travel during segregation, was there a hotel for them to stay in?	10:19
Alease Virginia Brickers	In New York, they had some Black hotels. Well, we had a little Black hotel here in Norfolk. It wasn't a hotel at first. It wasn't built as a hotel. Charlie had, they had that building. That building. Then when they moved from that building, then a Black lady opened a hotel, made it into a hotel and a little club. Well they did a little patronizing with that, but not long. But now, see, at that time the money wasn't like it is now. You've got good money now that you can do these things, but they won't do it.	10:27
Blair Murphy	So if people traveled, they would stay with family or friends? If they came to the area?	11:19
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah.	11:24
Blair Murphy	There wasn't already—	11:26
Alease Virginia Brickers	No, only the White hotels and everywhere, every time you look, they're building a White hotel, and the Black folks go there. The Black folks go there and have their meetings. And the ones in New York and Elder Place, they come down here too. See, if they stopped coming to these hotels, then they would—If they build one hotel, just one Black hotel in the city of Norfolk, they would do good business. They could do just as good as that Holiday Inn downtown. Just as good, because the people would know about it.	11:27
Alease Virginia Brickers	I understand that one of the Black hotels in New York went out of business, and that was Hotel Teresa, that went out of business. I don't know if that was the reason, but it was a Black hotel. But I'm talking about Norfolk now. Norfolk is a place that they should build one hotel. And our newscasters here, honey, "Well I'm moving down Virginia Beach." They made the Black people move out of this place called Lafayette Shores. It's not too far from where I live. They told those Black people that the houses had gone down so badly that they were going to let them all move out, and they were going to build some nice houses for them, and they could move back and buy them if they wanted to.	12:05
Alease Virginia Brickers	Well, the Blacks moved out, and sweetheart, they built some houses over there now in that vicinity that you couldn't buy because you don't have that money kind of money. We have a woman that works for television, channel 13. I understand that she had bought a house over there. Now, if I had money, I would not buy no house over there because they took that land from the Black people. But that's what they're doing. We have another Black man that moved over in that vicinity. He's got a fabulous house over there. It's true. But he could have built—	13:15
Blair Murphy	Somewhere else.	14:06
Alease Virginia Brickers	Somewhere, and he could have built a hotel from the money that he's paying to buy that house, he could have built a hotel, built a smaller house and built a nice hotel. But they will not pool that money.	14:08
Blair Murphy	So in Virginia Beach, was there a Black beach that you grew up with?	14:21
Alease Virginia Brickers	No. Well our beach, Black Beach was Seaview. That was Black. Sea Breeze. That was Black. And we had one over in Newport, that was Buck Row Beach. Now I have the history of Norfolk in some of those tapes up there.	14:29
Blair Murphy	Oh, okay.	14:52
Alease Virginia Brickers	And it tells you about Ocean View, the Black—And the beaches in Ocean View and Virginia Beach, the Blacks couldn't go there, only to work, that's all. But they can now. But it's gone down so badly. The Black patronize it more than anybody else. So it's just, this is the way the world is, I guess.	14:53
Blair Murphy	Was it like a business area?	15:26
Alease Virginia Brickers	Oh, yes, yes. They had hotels. Nice hotel for the Whites.	15:27
Blair Murphy	Oh, in Seaview and Sea Breeze?	15:31
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah, Ocean Breeze. They didn't have what you call a hotel. They had these little, what do you call them? They're not hotels, they little—	15:32
Blair Murphy	Like cottages?	15:43
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah, cabanas. Cabanas. They had cabanas they could stay in. Yeah.	15:43
Blair Murphy	And were there some clothes—	15:49
Alease Virginia Brickers	But they were nice. Yeah, it was nice. Buckroe was nice. Ocean Breeze and Seaview. But we don't have any of those now, because the Blacks can go to Ocean View and Virginia Beach, they can go. But most of the White people have moved out. It's just the lower class that's down there now. The high class ones had moved out—	15:50
Blair Murphy	To a different area.	16:19
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah. You heard about the riot that they had down there that time?	16:20
Blair Murphy	Yeah.	16:23
Alease Virginia Brickers	Yeah, yeah. I don't know. It seemed like to me, when our Black people go somewhere they've got to tear it up, just like on—Now I'm thinking about—In fact thinking about it, I'm going to do it. We have one television named Kelly Wright. I'm going to call Kelly Wright and meet with him. And I'm going to have a forum with our local television producers, and see if I can't, or we can't get some of this filth off the television, because it is outrageous. And they say, you can turn it off. Yes you can. But why turn it off? They don't need that.	16:24
Alease Virginia Brickers	And our Black people, when they get on these talk shows, they get up there and I know you've seen them. They fight and that's terrible. And I did have a forum at our church on AIDS. I did. I sponsored it myself, and I did very, very well. And I had a good panelist, only a representative for the television, the paper, and the business. I had six.	17:26
Alease Virginia Brickers	So my minister, we have a new minister and he said, "Mrs. Brickers, I heard about you before I came to this church, and I want you to help me." Well, shortly after he came, he's only been with us two years. Well, I've been sick almost two years, and I was with him Friday before last. And he said, "Mrs. Brickers, I'd be glad when you get so you can come out and help me." Because I want him to go into the neighborhood community and get those people to come to the church.	17:59
Alease Virginia Brickers	And we could have different things together. Now for Bible school, they go out and they Candice and I told Reverend Taylor, I said, "Reverend Taylor, you ought to stop this." I said, because the mothers were saying, "They come over here and they canvas for you to go to Bible school, but they don't come over to get you to go to Sunday school, after Bible School, that's it." And they shouldn't stop there. But they do. And I don't know, I just like to work. I just like to work.	18:41
Blair Murphy	I see that.	19:12
Alease Virginia Brickers	And I like to get something done. When then you were young, I don't know if you know when Ben Chavis was in prison? Honey, I marched in Washington for each time for Dr. Ben Chavis. He's in the same denomination I am, for him. And he finally got out when Mandela was over here. I was there, and I taped all of that. I like to work. I do. But I'm going to get out there again.	19:17
Blair Murphy	Okay.	20:04
Alease Virginia Brickers	I'm going to get out there again.	20:05
Blair Murphy	I'll let go.	20:06
Alease Virginia Brickers	I'm going to try anyway.	20:08

Item Info

Title:

Alease Brickers interview recording, 1995 July 26

Date:

July 26, 1995

Creator:

Brickers, Alease Virginia Balmar

Contributor:

Description:

Name: Alease Balmar Brickers; Date of birth: 1913-05-22; Place of birth: Seaboard, NC; Occupation(s): domestic; Residence: Norfolk, VA
Informant ID: 971; Interviewed by: Blair Murphy and Stacey Scales.

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Domestic worker

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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Interview number: 887
RL00170-CS-1287
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Alease Brickers interview recording, 1995 July 26

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1. Alease Brickers administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Alease Brickers interview recording, 1995 July 26

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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