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Producer	We're rolling.	0:05
Interviewer	Okay, good evening.	0:06
-	Good evening.	0:08
Interviewer	We are very grateful to you	0:09
	for participating in the Witness to Guantanamo project.	0:11
	We invite you to speak of your experiences as a father	0:16
	of a Guantanamo Bay, Cuba detainee.	0:21
	We are hoping to provide you an opportunity	0:25
	to tell your story in your own words.	0:27
	We are creating an archive of stories,	0:31
	so that people in America and around the world	0:34
	will have a better understanding	0:37
	of what your son and others have endured.	0:38
	Future generations must know what happened.	0:42
	And by telling your story, you're contributing to history.	0:46
	We appreciate your willingness to tell your story	0:50
	and speak with us.	0:53
	If at any time during the interview,	0:55
	you would like to take a break,	0:58
	please let us know.	0:59
	And if anything you say you'd like to retract, remove,	1:01
	just let us know and we can remove it.	1:05
	And we'd like to begin with just	1:07
	telling us your name and the country when in your hometown,	1:10
	and you could start with that.	1:15
-	Before that, I appreciate very much your efforts	1:17
	on putting highlights on what's happening in Guantanamo,	1:21
	and getting witnesses to say what they endure	1:26
	inside Guantanamo and during their trip	1:31
	from wherever they'd been kidnapped	1:34
	and then sent to Guantanamo,	1:38
	so I appreciate it very much.	1:39
	This is give me the the faith that there is still good mens	1:41
	in United States,	1:46
	and they are not appreciating	1:49
	what some of the administration doing.	1:52
Interviewer	Thank you.	1:58
	I agree.	1:59
	Thank you very much.	2:00
-	You're welcome. My name is Khalid Abdullah Al-Odah.	2:01
	I am a father, married with five children.	2:06
Interviewer	And you live in?	2:12
-	I live in Kuwait.	2:13
	My birthday is 15th of February 2000,	2:15
	I'm sorry, 1952.	2:21
Interviewer	And you're,	2:25
	I guess we should ask your age.	2:28
-	Yeah. My age is 58 years old.	2:31
Interviewer	And your religion?	2:35
-	Muslim. I am a Muslim and I, I live in Kuwait.	2:37
Interviewer	And your languages?	2:40
-	Is Arabic.	2:41
Interviewer	And you speak English.	2:42
-	Yes, I speak English, too.	2:44
Interviewer	And you currently live in Kuwait.	2:46
-	Yes, yes.	2:51
Interviewer	So I would like to begin,	2:52
	and you could just tell us the story	2:54
	and how you first found out	2:57
	about your son in Guantanamo,	3:00
	how that all happened.	3:04
	With if you were missing him before.	3:05
	If you could just tell us how it all began.	3:07
-	Well, Fouzi, my son is a,	3:12
	he is a good person.	3:17
	He want to help the others.	3:20
	And since he was in high school,	3:22
	he has, together with his friends	3:25
	to contribute some charity money	3:30
	and make a project for poor people outside Kuwait.	3:34
	They do that with, with some charity institutions.	3:41
	They just give them the money	3:46
	and tell them that they want this kind of project.	3:47
	It's a small project.	3:51
	What they contribute every year, not exceed $2,000.	3:52
	It's not that much,	3:58
	but it gives them the...	4:00
Interviewer	Opportunity.	4:04
-	Opportunity to share with others	4:05
	and to help others.	4:07
	What happens after he graduated from university afterward,	4:10
	he become a teacher and he has a long period of,	4:16
	in summer time,	4:24
	which is very long holiday.	4:26
	So he want to continue on doing charitable work	4:30
	and want to travel outside Kuwait.	4:35
	That's what he did.	4:36
	He did that in 2000.	4:38
	He went to Pakistan.	4:41
	He knows that there is a lot of refugees,	4:43
	Afghani refugees on the borders	4:46
	between Pakistan and Afghanistan.	4:48
	And he went there.	4:49
	He spent about a month and a half, and he came back.	4:50
	He was very excited and he want to do it every year.	4:53
	And that's what happened to him.	4:57
	When he went in 2001.	4:59
	He went there.	5:03
	He calls me from there once,	5:04
	it's very hard to find a communication there,	5:07
	but he did manage to call me.	5:11
	What happens after 9/11, I was very afraid.	5:14
	Never heard from him,	5:20
	ask the Kuwaiti Embassy	5:25
	in Islamabad,	5:30
	in Pakistan,	5:33
	they said, we have no knowledge about these people.	5:35
	This is, you know, very far away places.	5:38
	So we cannot, you know, trace people there.	5:44
	I stayed with my family	5:52
	for about three months,	5:58
	until we discovered that he is being detained	5:59
	by Pakistani forces and he is in jail.	6:02
	That happens by a telephone, came to me from a Kuwaiti,	6:06
	who you did interview, who is Adel Zamel.	6:10
	He wasn't being kidnapped yet.	6:15
	He said that there is a lot of Kuwaitis being detained	6:18
	and put in Kohat prison.	6:23
	They managed to, you know,	6:25
	give a piece of paper with their names	6:29
	and their families' telephone numbers.	6:32
	So they spread this and he did call me	6:37
	and called the others of the Kuwaitis.	6:42
Interviewer	Can I interrupt?	6:45
	How did Adel know them?	6:46
	How was, where was Adel when he was able to.	6:49
-	Adel is a very good connection with Al Wafa.	6:52
	And he knows a lot of connections	6:57
	there in Pakistan and Afghanistan.	6:59
	He was there for, for a long time.	7:02
	The news, all the kind of rumors or news comes to him	7:04
	that there is Kuwaitis	7:09
	inside this prison.	7:12
	And they managed to get a piece of paper.	7:17
	He asked for this piece of paper, he took it,	7:21
	and then he calls us.	7:23
	It is been spread in some of the,	7:24
	I remember one of the lawyers,	7:30
	Pakistani lawyers who filed a motion	7:34
	against the Pakistani government	7:36
	to get these people out.	7:39
	But it was too late.	7:42
	They'd been transferred to, to the Americans.	7:44
Interviewer	And what,	7:46
	do you know the date when you first heard from Adel?	7:47
-	It was about,	7:51
	it was in December.	7:56
	Let me think.	8:02
	Stop that, please.	8:03
	The 12th, the 12th.	8:06
Interviewer	Of December, you think? January?	8:07
-	No, no, no, no, no.	8:10
	The last month of the year.	8:11
Interviewer	December.	8:13
-	December, okay.	8:13
Interviewer	Good.	8:14
	And what did you think then when you heard that news?	8:15
-	I was joyed and at the same time worried.	8:20
	Joyed that my son is still alive,	8:25
	and worried that he is in jail.	8:28
	I immediately contact,	8:31
	I have a good connection on our government.	8:33
	I contact one of the ministers who can, you know,	8:37
	put me with a ministry, the Minister of Foreign Affairs,	8:42
	who acted very quickly,	8:46
	asked the Kuwaiti Embassy to send	8:49
	some personnel to check on Kohat prison.	8:54
	By the time they received, they arrived there,	8:58
	all the prisoners being transferred	9:00
	to Kandahar at that time.	9:03
	We heard from Fouzi after Kandahar by a very short letter,	9:07
	by the Red Cross, we received it on February.	9:14
	I can't remember, 11th of February,	9:19
	saying, it's very short letter,	9:23
	he said, "I am detained by the Americans.	9:24
	"They soon will discover that I am innocent	9:29
	"and then I will come home."	9:32
	He was very optimistic of that.	9:34
	He never thought that he will be staying there	9:36
	for now almost nine or more than nine years now.	9:39
	This is the, when we heard from him from Kandahar,	9:45
	then by contacting the other families,	9:50
	I tried to get them, to get united.	9:54
Interviewer	How did you know	9:58
	who the other families were?	9:59
-	By the Ministry of Foreign Affairs,	10:00
	and by Adel Al Zamel, when he calls me.	10:03
	So I did try to get the families.	10:07
	We started with five families,	10:12
	and then we continued to discover other families	10:14
	who has some of the loved ones is detained there.	10:18
	So we ended up with 12 detainees.	10:24
	I have a good connection with the government.	10:30
	So it was not very hard to	10:32
	find the families	10:38
	and notify them and then sit with them.	10:39
Interviewer	So just to understand it,	10:42
	when you first were notified,	10:45
	only some of the men were captured,	10:47
	but then later on, Adel himself was taken.	10:50
-	That's right.	10:54
Interviewer	And between the time	10:55
	that you heard from Adel	10:57
	and you got the letter from Fouzi,	10:59
	what were you able to do besides talking to the ministry?	11:02
	Was anything else you could do or you just waited?	11:05
-	No, I was in constant contact with,	11:08
	almost constant contact with them,	11:11
	asking them to get our boys back.	11:12
	He told me the, the Minister of Foreign Affairs,	11:17
	that there is no use of talking to the Americans.	11:20
	They just shut the doors.	11:24
	They don't want to answer any,	11:26
	they just send them peace,	11:28
	some faxes telling them that this guy,	11:31
	the Kuwaiti guy, being transferred to Guantanamo.	11:36
	Just to be notified, that's all.	11:38
Interviewer	And you on your own	11:41
	contacted the other families?	11:44
-	Yes.	11:46
Interviewer	And why did you decide to do that?	11:47
-	I know that if we get united,	11:50
	we will have more power, more convincing power.	11:53
	We have to sit together.	11:56
	I took that from the Americans themselves,	11:58
	you know, when they have, in crisis or something,	12:01
	they get together as families	12:03
	and try to initiate some kind of campaign on that.	12:06
	And we did do the right way of doing it.	12:10
Interviewer	Did all the families agreed to participate?	12:16
-	Yes. Yes.	12:19
	They agreed.	12:20
	They don't have any other alternatives.	12:21
	They want to know, at least about the fate of their sons.	12:23
	Some of them were very enthusiastic.	12:29
	Some of them were worried a little bit,	12:34
	but at the end we come up,	12:36
	we come along with our campaign.	12:39
Interviewer	And you always were	12:44
	the person organizing it, right?	12:46
	Pretty much.	12:49
-	That's right.	12:50
Interviewer	Could you then tell us,	12:52
	so what happened when you,	12:53
	how did you hear that he actually was in Guantanamo	12:55
	from the ministry?	12:57
-	From the ministry,	12:59
	they told us that Fouzi being transferred.	12:59
	We know about the others, also.	13:03
	When this information came from the United States government	13:06
	telling the Kuwaiti government	13:10
	that this Kuwaiti citizen's being transferred to Guantanamo.	13:12
Interviewer	What did you do next then?	13:17
-	We continue on trying to find a path	13:19
	or a way to enhance our campaign.	13:23
	We did work with for course,	13:28
	first is with our government	13:32
	by diplomatic means,	13:34
	second with media.	13:37
Interviewer	American media or?	13:41
-	American and Kuwaiti media.	13:42
	We started with Kuwaiti media	13:43
	and then a legal core of that.	13:45
	We wanna file a motion against United States government.	13:49
	They understand this.	13:52
	This is people who really say, this is--	13:53
Interviewer	Ruling of law.	13:58
-	Yeah. Yeah. So we did that.	13:59
Interviewer	And how did you find a lawyer?	14:01
-	Ah, this is another story, really.	14:03
	What happens is that the United States government	14:06
	have to engage with a lot of...	14:12
	firms,	14:17
	a lot of lawyers.	14:18
	So there will be conflict of interest.	14:20
	So we cannot find that that much of good lawyers.	14:24
Interviewer	Are you saying that	14:30
	some of the lawyers you've contacted	14:31
	couldn't work?	14:33
-	Couldn't, no.	14:34
Interviewer	Because they work for the,	14:35
	they had contracts with the US.	14:36
-	That's right.	14:37
	But finally, we come up with 10.	14:38
Interviewer	10 names?	14:42
-	10 names.	14:44
	Seven of them refuses cause conflict,	14:45
	conflict of interest, I'm sorry.	14:49
	Then three of them, two of the three	14:52
	ask very big amount of money,	14:57
	we cannot afford it.	15:00
	They ask, they talk about millions to begin with.	15:03
	I don't know, maybe they think that we are oil country,	15:09
	we have money everywhere, so.	15:13
	The third one who is Shearman Sterling,	15:16
	they said, "okay, we need a down payment	15:20
	"just to be sure that you are serious with that.	15:25
	"We need $100,000 down payment,	15:30
	"and we put it in a bank.	15:34
	"Nobody will touch it until we agree on it."	15:35
	And they put rule or some conditions.	15:39
	They said, "if we discover	15:44
	"that any of these Kuwaitis has connection	15:46
	"with Taliban or Al-Qaeda, we will terminate the contract.	15:50
	"We will come and meet with the families.	15:55
	"And we need to know all of the Kuwaiti detainees,	15:59
	"what is their background."	16:04
	We worked very hard to provide them	16:07
	with a file of each of the detainees,	16:09
	and we went to a big hotel, here in Kuwait.	16:13
	We received them.	16:17
	We sit together in a meeting room,	16:17
	and they did ask the families	16:20
	and ask us all what they need.	16:22
	Finally, after three days,	16:25
	they agreed to be engaged.	16:27
Interviewer	To represent.
-	Yes, to represent us.	16:30
	This is what give us a good start with that.	16:32
	I was very optimistic here.	16:36
	You know, this is the rule of law, so we can.	16:38
	What happens is the first motion being refused.	16:42
	And we continue as you know, if you go to the history,	16:46
	that we did receive at the highest,	16:50
	I mean, the Supreme Court,	16:57
	the agreement to look to our motion.	16:59
Interviewer	Right.	17:05
-	Yeah. And we got, that was in...	17:06
Interviewer	2004.	17:09
-	2004.	17:11
	And then they ruled on giving the,	17:12
	some kind of justice to them.	17:17
	But, you know, the administration go around it	17:21
	and did what they did as, you know.	17:25
Interviewer	Can we go back?	17:28
	Was the money, this is important for me,	17:29
	was the money from the families?	17:32
-	To start with yes, $100,000 from the families.	17:34
	Then we convinced the Kuwaiti government	17:39
	to finance us all that.	17:42
	And they are continuing on doing that.	17:46
Interviewer	And how did you,	17:48
	how did you feel that an American lawyer	17:50
	was willing to represent you?	17:54
-	We have friends.	17:57
	I have my friend, Abdul Rahman Al-Haroun who,	17:58
	he is a lawyer, Kuwaiti lawyer,	18:02
	and he has a good contact with the US lawyers.	18:03
	And he has a friend and he asked them, you know,	18:06
	there is what they call them headhunters, you know?	18:10
	We have to contact them to connect us with these people.	18:14
	So that was the way, the very practical way	18:17
	to get some lawyers to represent us.	18:22
Interviewer	And did all the families stay together	18:25
	throughout that time?	18:29
	There was no dispute.	18:32
	The families could all agree on the lawyer	18:35
	and the lawyer representing all the families?	18:37
-	They was hesitant in the first	18:40
	because they don't know who will finance these lawyers.	18:43
	After the agreement of the Kuwaiti governments,	18:47
	they were very, very relieved on that.	18:52
Interviewer	And did you hear from Fouzi at all while,	18:56
	during those first few years?	18:58
-	No. Just very short letters.	19:01
	Sometimes letters, they call it the military form letters,	19:03
	which been scratched	19:07
	most of the words on it.	19:11
	And we have to use our imagination,	19:15
	what he's trying to say to us.	19:18
Interviewer	And could the Red Cross help you at all	19:20
	during that time?	19:22
-	Yes. Red Cross did a marvelous job	19:23
	on at least contacting our boys there,	19:26
	and trying to make us communicate with them.	19:29
	They have, you know,	19:33
	we know that they were very limited	19:35
	by the United States government, but they did good,	19:38
	they did good.	19:41
	As much, as far as the ability they have.	19:42
Interviewer	And how did the Kuwaiti government help you,	19:46
	during this time?	19:49
-	We have very long meetings with the Kuwaiti government	19:51
	and asking them, trying to push them,	19:56
	asking for the returns of the detainees.	19:59
	We did succeeded in the first,	20:04
	on January, 2005,	20:08
	to receive one of the detainees.	20:10
	We continue to push the government to ask for the others	20:14
	and we manage November, 2005 to get five of the detainees.	20:18
	We were very happy.	20:23
	We said, it's open now,	20:24
	but it stops for very long.	20:27
	It's about 2006 we get two,	20:30
	then the remaining was four.	20:34
	They started as you know, on 2007,	20:38
	we succeeded on the Supreme Court to give detainees	20:41
	time in court, day in court.	20:47
	So, as you know, the habeas corpus	20:50
Interviewer	Decision.	20:56
-	Decision, yeah.	20:57
	And we managed to have two of them acquitted	20:58
	in these courts.	21:03
	And afterward we did squeeze	21:06
	on the United States government	21:10
	to get them back.	21:12
	It was the law who get them back, the two.	21:13
	And the other two, unfortunately,	21:17
	we did not succeed on acquitting them.	21:19
	And this kind of, I can't talk about this,	21:23
	I'm not a lawyer but I learned that wasn't	21:26
	the level that we think it is,	21:34
	the justice should be served.	21:37
	We think the habeas corpus was, you know	21:40
	put in a way that you cannot get all the justice you need,	21:46
	that's what's happens.	21:50
	That's why we lost the cases, the two other cases on that.	21:51
Interviewer	Sometimes I wonder,	21:56
	because you were so active,	21:58
	do you think that makes a difference	22:00
	in terms of for your son,	22:02
	that you were fighting so hard for your son?	22:05
-	I wanna believe it, but I find it very hard to believe	22:09
	this huge nation, you know, of United States	22:14
	and this administration, do they think this way?	22:19
	It's really, sometimes it's hard to believe it.	22:24
	Even some of the very high officials,	22:28
	here in Kuwait, told me that,	22:32
	that because you are so active,	22:34
	they are not going to release your son.	22:36
Interviewer	They told you that?	22:38
-	Yeah, they told me.	22:39
	I don't know if they speculate this	22:40
	or they really know that.	22:43
	I have a lot of people here, my friends,	22:46
	they said, "you managed to get 10 out of the 12.	22:51
	"Why is your son is not getting back?	22:56
	"Because of you."	22:59
	That's what they said.	23:00
	I don't wanna believe them.	23:01
	I don't wanna believe them	23:04
	because this is odd, really, really odd	23:05
	if the United State government doing that	23:07
	because I am active,	23:11
	because I am trying to have rule of law,	23:12
	because I am trying to get the human rights served.	23:16
	This is really, really odd.	23:22
	I don't wanna believe it	23:24
	because I have a lot of American friends who is,	23:25
	they stand tall with me on my campaign	23:28
	and they are helping me very much.	23:32
	So I cannot imagine if there is some kind of thoughts,	23:35
	of that thoughts.	23:41
Interviewer	And when the men got out,	23:42
	did they say anything to you about Fouzi?	23:45
	Were they able to?	23:47
-	Of course, of course.	23:49
	They, some of them, they could meet with them constantly,	23:50
	but some of them, some of the detainees said,	23:54
	"well, Fouzi, we did not see him for two years	23:58
	"because he is separate from us."	24:00
	It's usual there, in Guantanamo.	24:02
	That's why sometimes they will tell you,	24:06
	I have calls from outside the Kuwait,	24:09
	I have calls from Pakistan, when they be released,	24:11
	I have calls from Europe.	24:14
	I have calls from everywhere telling me about Fouzi,	24:16
	because they know me.	24:19
	They know me very much.	24:21
	I can tell you the first who	24:24
	ignite this Guantanamo issue	24:28
	to be looked at it was the Britain Anas, here in Kuwait.	24:34
Interviewer	Right.	24:38
-	And at that time,	24:40
	we were swimming against the current.	24:42
	If you talk about Guantanamo, you just saying,	24:45
	like saying a saint, it's something, really, something,	24:48
	Guantanamo, go away.	24:52
	Just listen to us.	24:54
	Please listen to us.	24:56
	We are not saying they are innocent.	24:57
	Give them the right to be in court,	24:59
	give them their rights.	25:03
	Even very, very big criminals,	25:05
	who've been knows in the history,	25:11
	give them the rights to be in courts.	25:13
	Just give them the time on court to prove they're innocent.	25:16
	If they are not, they have to take the consequences.	25:19
	That's what we plant in our campaign.	25:23
	We did not say they are innocent,	25:28
	but let them defend themselves.	25:31
	Just listen to them.	25:35
	That's all.	25:36
Interviewer	And so some of the detainees,	25:38
	when they were released,	25:39
	would call you and tell you about Fouzi?	25:40
-	Yes.	25:43
Interviewer	So you were known,	25:45
	people around the world knew who you were	25:48
	and they were calling you?	25:51
-	No, the people inside Guantanamo know me very well.	25:52
	And then the people from Yemen,	25:54
	people from people Bahrain, people from Saudi Arabia,	25:58
	people from Britain in Europe, Paris,	26:01
	I have a good connection.	26:04
	We made a very good network of communication with others,	26:06
	just to let the world know about Guantanamo,	26:11
	what's happening in Guantanamo.	26:15
	We condemn what happens in 9/11 very much,	26:18
	but you cannot just forget	26:24
	all your foundation, you know,	26:28
	the United States foundation.	26:33
	They could not forget their, you know,	26:34
	the way of treating people,	26:41
	the way of giving the rule of law,	26:44
	the way of human rights.	26:46
	They have the torch of Liberty and everything.	26:49
	And now what's happened?	26:52
	Why you are doing this?	26:55
	To the people in Guantanamo.	26:57
	Give them their rights.	26:59
	That's all we ask.	27:01
Interviewer	You lived in America when you were younger,	27:04
	what did you think of America before 9/11,	27:09
	and has your opinion changed?	27:13
-	What a different, oh, too much, too much different.	27:16
	When I was in the States, I was in Texas,	27:20
	that was in the early '70s.	27:24
	These, you know, folks in the United States, you know,	27:29
	when you live in an apartment,	27:32
	you will find somebody knocking your door.	27:35
	They know you are newcomers.	27:40
	They want to help you, without asking the help.	27:41
	Sometimes they bring some food to you.	27:45
	They know you are bachelor and nobody there.	27:47
	It's easy to make friendship with everybody,	27:50
	anybody in the United States.	27:54
	And the people were very simple, very direct, very honest.	27:56
	And that's what kept me having faith on.	28:02
	The United States governments have deviated the course,	28:08
	and I believe that it will come back to the same course.	28:12
	Otherwise, it will lose their way.	28:17
	So I have a good faith in this nation,	28:21
	and I think eventually they will come back	28:26
	to the same course.	28:29
	That like, what happens in the World War II	28:30
	when they did what they did to the Japanese.	28:37
	And then now they are, you know,	28:40
	regretting this very much,	28:43
	because there is people	28:45
	who put this foundations on this nation.	28:49
	That's why United States is great,	28:55
	because they have their principles.	28:58
	And these kinds of events	29:02
	or crisis should not let them divert	29:07
	from their own path.	29:12
Interviewer	Do you think Obama could have made a,	29:14
	did you think Obama would have made a difference	29:18
	when he was elected?	29:19
-	Yeah, I don't think so, no.	29:21
	Well, I'll tell you this.	29:25
	Obama did say a lot of promises	29:28
	during his election campaign.	29:32
	And I think he was honest on that,	29:35
	but when he went to the White House,	29:39
	he discovered something else,	29:42
	and this is politics, and there is people,	29:44
	they don't want the Guantanamo issue	29:48
	or some other issues to be solved.	29:52
	And he was stuck with that	29:56
	and he had to bend a little bit for this,	29:59
	but this is on our sides.	30:02
	You know, we have our boys there,	30:05
	we need them to be released.	30:07
	And as long as Guantanamo there,	30:10
	this will remain a stain	30:14
	on the United States reputation.	30:17
	They should get rid of it.	30:20
	They should close it.	30:22
	But the president could not do that.	30:24
	You know, he has the people in the Congress,	30:28
	they resist that very much.	30:32
	Even Democrat people, you know.	30:34
Interviewer	And the country of Kuwait	30:37
	still helps you today with your son?	30:39
	Are they still working on your behalf?	30:43
-	Yes, they are doing their best.	30:45
	We are, you know, Kuwait is a very small country.	30:48
	I always sometimes push very hard on the authorities.	30:52
	I always said, you have very good cards.	30:57
	golden cards to be used,	31:00
	not just for for our boys to get back,	31:02
	for other issues with the United States.	31:05
	Why don't you use it?	31:09
	This is politics.	31:12
	We cannot push very hard on that.	31:13
	They, you know,	31:16
	think in different way,	31:20
	angles and way,	31:25
	they have their own measurements,	31:26
	so you can push them up to they can do,	31:28
	you cannot push them more than that.	31:33
	They stand with us when we ask them for help,	31:36
	they help the detainees or the ex detainees,	31:42
	they help the families.	31:46
	They do, you know, whatever they can do	31:48
	to provide, to help the detainees,	31:53
	even when the detainees came back,	31:57
	they still with me, you know,	32:00
	I want to be a little bit focused	32:02
	on the other two over there,	32:05
	but these, I become like a father to them, you know,	32:08
	they always ask if they have any problem,	32:12
	they always ask me	32:14
	because I have good connection with our government,	32:15
	good connection with the people outside,	32:19
	so they still, they become, you know,	32:21
	if I choose this or not, I have to help them, you know,	32:27
	I have to stand with them.	32:31
Interviewer	Well, can you tell me,	32:33
	how are they doing? The men who came back?	32:34
	How are they doing now?	32:38
-	They are doing very fine.	32:39
	They are doing very good.	32:40
	They all in connection with me all the time.	32:42
	We have at least every two weeks, you know.	32:46
Interviewer	A meet?	32:53
-	A meet, like here, we sit here and drink tea, chat,	32:54
	and then to look after each other	32:58
	and see what's the problems, or what do you have.	33:02
	We'll continue on communicating, going on this way.	33:06
Interviewer	So the former detainees look to you	33:10
	as helping them get out of Guantanamo,	33:13
	or it sounds like they--	33:16
-	That's right.	33:18
	They believe that if not the families,	33:19
	the committee family did not moved,	33:24
	they would not be outside.	33:27
Interviewer	And are you still in touch with the families	33:30
	or mostly just with the detainees these days?	33:32
-	With the families, but not like before,	33:35
	now with the detainees more than before.	33:37
Interviewer	Did you know of other?	33:42
	It seems to me Kuwait's the only country	33:44
	that would pay the lawyers fees and be so helpful.	33:46
	Do you know of other countries that did as much?	33:51
	And do you know of other people who did things like you did?	33:53
-	Well, I think there is,	33:57
	people in Britain did that.	34:02
	I know the CAGE Prisoners Reprieve,	34:05
	they did manage very, very good.	34:08
	We combined our efforts at some times,	34:12
	we have conferences,	34:16
	we have meetings outside Kuwait,	34:19
	like in Sanau,	34:23
	we did two times,	34:24
	in Britain, we did it in London.	34:25
	We did some good, in Bahrain also,	34:29
	just to let, put some light on this issue	34:32
	and to ask the governments,	34:38
	the detainees governments to do something,	34:41
	to embarrass the others.	34:44
	When we work for our boys,	34:46
	you should work for your citizens.	34:49
	So that's what give them the,	34:52
	at least the courage to continue and to get back.	34:56
	And I admire the Saudis,	35:00
	they did manage to get	35:02
	more than 100 detainee	35:09
	back to their home country,	35:11
	out of 130 detainees,	35:13
	which is tremendous efforts and job, yeah.	35:16
Interviewer	How do you see yourself today,	35:24
	after these last 10 years?	35:27
-	Exhausted.	35:30
	Well, I have no alternatives.	35:32
	I have to continue struggling,	35:36
	doing as much as I can in legitimate way	35:41
	to get back	35:46
Interviewer	The other two.	35:48
-	The other two.	35:49
Interviewer	Until they come back,	35:50
	your work isn't done.	35:51
-	No, no, no.	35:53
Interviewer	Do you speak to Fouzi now?	35:55
-	Yes, matter of fact, after two days,	35:58
	we have scheduled telephone with him and the Red Cross.	36:00
	I will take the family there	36:04
	and we will talk to him from there.	36:06
Interviewer	Could you tell us how that works now?	36:08
	And when that started?	36:11
-	Oh, that started about six months ago.	36:13
	Two years ago, they started with telephones.	36:17
	We can talk by telephone, but it was very restricted.	36:21
	You only talk about family matters.	36:25
	You don't go on any other things.	36:29
	Then the Red Cross, you know,	36:33
	put the...	36:38
Interviewer	Video?	36:41
-	Video call.	36:42
	It was very, very,	36:44
	if you see your son, you know,	36:46
	and you can tell if he's okay or not,	36:48
	it's much better than just hearing his voice.	36:50
	It was wonderful moment the first we talked to him	36:53
	and I am amazed really that he is still hanging there.	36:59
	He has a good spirit, and I never,	37:05
	never doubt that Fouzi will retain to Kuwait, Insha'Allah.	37:09
Interviewer	And when you talk to him,	37:15
	how long can you talk to him?	37:17
-	For one hour.	37:20
Interviewer	And how often is that?	37:21
-	Every 35 to 40 days.	37:24
Interviewer	And your whole family	37:29
	can be around every video.	37:30
-	Oh, yes.	37:32
	But you have to send the names	37:33
	and the relationship with the detainee,	37:35
	and then they have to wait for the agreement from,	37:38
	but normally it, it goes okay.	37:42
Interviewer	And does Fouzi know all the work	37:45
	that you had done on his behalf	37:48
	and on the other Kuwaiti detainees,	37:50
	are you able to tell them that?	37:52
-	I think he knows	37:54
	because when the other detainees comes back,	37:55
	they know that we are working on them.	37:59
	So I believe Fouzi knows	38:01
	that we are working very hard on them.	38:02
	We have a lot of	38:06
	other lawyers from Britain,	38:11
	and our lawyers when they go to see Fouzi,	38:13
	and to meet with him and the other detainees,	38:16
	they told him,	38:19
	they tell him that your father did this and this,	38:20
	and the committee did that.	38:24
	And so they know about that.	38:26
Interviewer	And do you ever think of going	38:30
	to the States yourself to see if you,	38:32
	you couldn't visit him, but just to go to the States,	38:35
	to talk to the US government or,	38:38
	have you ever thought about that?	38:40
-	Well, we have some thoughts about that.	38:41
	That it's under negotiation now with our committee	38:45
	and other, and with our lawyers.	38:49
	So I hope that I could go there soon	38:52
	and come back with with good news.	38:57
Interviewer	Hmm.	39:01
	Is there something you want to ask?	39:05
Woman	Could you describe how this experience	39:10
	affected you and your family emotionally?	39:13
-	Oh, yes.	39:17
	It's very much really.	39:19
	When you lose	39:22
	one of your sons,	39:27
	the eldest son, we are very, very tight family.	39:28
	We love each other very much,	39:34
	Fouzi grow on my hand.	39:37
	So when you lose Fouzi, I mean, when he is not around you,	39:40
	it's very difficult for me,	39:46
	for my wife, for my children.	39:49
	I'll tell you what, some incidents happens	39:55
	from time to time here in my house,	39:57
	we have Fouzi's room the same, remain the same.	40:01
	Sometimes I wake up middle of the night.	40:07
	I don't find Suhad, my wife.	40:10
	Now I know where she goes,	40:14
	because when I wake up not finding her,	40:17
	I know that she went to his room to sleep on his bed,	40:22
	which is hurt very much, very much.	40:29
Woman	And have your children had bad experiences	40:37
	because their brother was in Guantanamo?	40:42
-	Yes. In the beginning.	40:47
	Sometimes, they've been avoided by their friend,	40:50
	not very close friend, but some, some of their friends.	40:53
	If they know that Fouzi is in Guantanamo, as I told you,	40:58
	that time this is trademark of terrorist people.	41:03
	So when you listen to Rumsfeld saying,	41:09
	this is the worst of the worst,	41:14
	and everybody will believe him	41:16
	because he is, you know,	41:17
	a Minister in United States administration.	41:20
	So they should, they should believe him.	41:23
	That's what happens, you know,	41:26
	it's affected us very much.	41:27
	Even to convince our governments about our cause,	41:30
	it took us, you know, a lot of efforts to tell them	41:35
	that this is your citizens	41:40
	and you are obliged	41:44
	to manage, to take care of them.	41:46
	Finally, they agreed,	41:50
	especially, especially after we succeeded	41:52
	and we went in 2004 above the Supreme Court.	41:56
	At the beginning, all the officials,	42:00
	to the highest, saying this is a lost case.	42:03
	We are paying for nothing.	42:07
	When we succeeded on that, we have a full boost	42:09
	from our government to continue on that.	42:14
Woman	And how was it determined who got out first?	42:19
	Was it the Americans who made that determination?	42:23
	Or was it the Kuwaitis?	42:26
	The ones who got out early.	42:29
-	No, the Americans.	42:32
	I don't know how they do that.	42:34
	I can tell you one thing about the last two.	42:37
	They been forced,	42:41
	the United States government being forced	42:43
	to hand them over to Kuwait because they've been refusing.	42:45
	Our lawyer said we will file a court contempt,	42:53
	so they have to hurry up, they said.	42:57
	After the decision	43:01
	of the habeas motion in the court, took,	43:03
	for example Khalid Al Mutairi about a month and a half	43:08
	to be handed over to us,	43:13
	and even the same to Fouad, afterwards.	43:15
	So they still, after they came here in Kuwait,	43:18
	they want our government to have	43:23
	a constant surveillance on them.	43:27
	They not to be handed any passports.	43:32
	There is a lot of conditions with acquitted person.	43:36
	You know, they are innocent persons.	43:40
	Your court said that,	43:41
	this is the court you agreed on having it to us,	43:43
	to our sons.	43:47
	Why you are doing that?	43:49
	You do not trust your court?	43:51
	This is something really weird, you know.	43:55
Interviewer	So you said you the Americans	43:59
	put all these conditions	44:00
	on the release of these people.	44:01
-	Yes, and they have like a bureau officer	44:03
	they have to go to report to,	44:07
	to a station every week, every week.	44:11
	And these are innocent people.	44:16
	They agreed to go there.	44:19
	There is no enforcement on them.	44:21
	The Kuwaiti government,	44:23
	there is no law to let them do that	44:24
	but they did it because there is two people	44:27
	still kidnapped there.	44:30
	That's why.	44:33
Woman	And just to make it clear,	44:35
	the American government informed the Kuwaiti government	44:38
	that they had taken 12 detainees to Guantanamo.	44:43
	Previous to that were, you were not informed,	44:49
	and neither was the Kuwaiti government	44:54
	that your son was being held by the Americans, right?	44:56
-	No, this is not right.	45:00
	What happens is the United States government did not	45:03
	tell the Kuwaiti government	45:09
	that they are holding Kuwaiti citizens there.	45:11
	What we discovered through this call, as I said.	45:15
Interviewer	From Adel.	45:20
-	From Adel, that there is Kuwaitis there,	45:21
	and these are their names.	45:24
	There were five people at that time.	45:25
	And we headed up to ask our government,	45:28
	to ask the United States government.	45:31
	They did not give any answers.	45:33
	They did not give any answers.	45:35
	They just answer them	45:37
	after they transfer them to Guantanamo,	45:38
	at each one being transferred,	45:42
	they sent a notification to Kuwaiti government	45:45
	telling them that we are,	45:49
	we did transfer	45:51
	such and such person to Guantanamo.	45:54
	And it started from January, 2001	45:58
	up to May, 2000.	46:05
Interviewer	Two.	46:10
-	Yeah, I'm sorry, January, 2002 to May, 2002.	46:11
Woman	And you've never heard anything officially	46:17
	from the US government about your son.	46:20
-	No, no, no.	46:22
	What happens is even at that time,	46:24
	I think the Pentagon took over this crisis.	46:29
	Even the Ministry of Foreign Affairs	46:34
	or the state departments	46:39
	could not get any	46:44
Interviewer	Information.	46:47
-	Information from the Pentagon about what's happening.	46:48
	I mean, about at least these details about the detainees,	46:52
	the names and these things,	46:54
	which is, was very, very, really, very odd, you know.	46:57
Interviewer	I mean, you were probably one of the first	47:04
	to find out the names.	47:06
-	Yes.	47:07
Interviewer	Most people and the lawyers in America	47:08
	couldn't find names.	47:09
	You found that very early.	47:12
-	Yeah.	47:14
	I think this is very odd thing to say,	47:15
	but I think in a certain period of time,	47:18
	in the early crisis,	47:25
	I think the Pentagon hijacked	47:27
	the administration itself	47:32
	for a certain time.	47:34
Interviewer	It seems to me from,	47:45
	did it surprise you that you got so involved,	47:46
	were you surprised watching yourself from the outside,	47:49
	seeing all of a sudden you get so involved,	47:53
	cause the other family, parents, you were the leader,	47:55
	did it surprise you that you became	47:58
	so fervent and a leader from all the families?	48:01
-	Well, I think I am very fortunate	48:06
	that I have good, good friends.	48:08
	I have friends who did support me very much,	48:10
	and not just the families,	48:16
	in the beginning with these friends,	48:18
	telling me what to do, trying to help me to stand tall	48:21
	against this crisis.	48:26
	And I think I appreciate what they did to me.	48:28
	As you said, I find myself going forward	48:32
	and I cannot get back.	48:36
	I have to continue that, get myself involved in this.	48:38
	So I cannot, you know, turn back	48:43
	because this is,	48:45
	this is a responsibility I have to continue to the end.	48:46
Interviewer	For your son.	48:50
-	Yes.	48:52
Interviewer	Is there something else that	48:57
	I didn't ask you that maybe you wanna talk about	48:58
	with, you know, the story that people should know?	49:01
-	Well, it's very long stories, you know,	49:08
	I cannot, you know, squeeze it in,	49:12
	but in general, I think--	49:14
Interviewer	Is there something else that,	49:18
	a good anecdote or another--	49:20
-	As I said, I just want to emphasize this.	49:22
	I think without	49:26
	the honest people in United States,	49:30
	we never get that far in our campaign.	49:35
	(interviewer mumbling)	49:42
Interviewer	Well, I just wanna thank you.	49:45
	That was very moving.	49:48
	And you're a spirit	49:50
	cause everyone who followed this	49:53
	knows about you, because very few people took the lead,	49:56
	and you did,	49:59
	it's very unusual.	50:00
	Wish you the best for your son.	50:02
-	Thank you.	50:04
	Thank you very much.	50:05
	And I appreciate what you are doing, really.	50:06
	Thank you very much.	50:07
Interviewer	Thank you.	50:09
	Do you wanna 20 seconds?	50:10
Producer	Yeah.	50:12
Interviewer	We're gonna just be quiet.	50:14
Producer	Start room tone.	50:16
-	End room tone.	50:35
Khalid	Thank you.	50:36

Item Info

Title:

Odah, Khalid Al- - Interview master file

Date:

January 3, 2011

Interviewer:

Honigsberg, Peter Jan

Interviewee:

Odah, Khalid Al-

Role:

Detainee Family

Description:

This interview may include descriptions of violence.
Father of Fawzi Al-Odah
Khalid Al-Odah, male, age 58, is the father of detainee Fawzi Al-Odah, and the founder of the Kuwaiti Family Committee, an organization formed in 2004 by the relatives of detainees to advocate for their just treatment under the U.S. Judicial system. He campaigned for the release of 12 Kuwaiti detainees, the last of which, his son, was released from Guantanamo November 5, 2014, after almost 13 years of detainment without charge.
Description was provided by Witness to Guantanamo.

Subject:

Kuwait

Format:

oral histories

Language:

English

Extent:

0:50:38

Digital Collection:

Witness to Guantanamo

Source Collection:

Witness to Guantanamo Video Collection, 2009-2017

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Rights Note:

Unless otherwise noted, copyright is held by Peter Hongisberg. Under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International license, you are free to use and share these materials subject to the following conditions: You must attribute Peter Hongisberg as the rights holder. You may not use the material for commercial purposes. You may not distribute any modifications to the materials. For other uses, including commercial uses, please contact Rubenstein Library at http://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/ask.

Identifier:

50f3d3b839900ab567d003665fe93152
witnesstoguantanamo
ark:/87924/r41z48c56
ac939dc9-2dad-432c-8de5-64c9960da873

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r41z48c56

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Odah, Khalid Al- - Interview master file

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