Asam, Zakirjan - Interview master file / Witness to Guantanamo / Duke Digital Repository

Man

Okay, good afternoon.

0:07

-

Good afternoon

0:09

Man

We are very grateful to you

0:09

for participating in the Witness to Guantanamo Project.

0:11

We invite you to speak

0:16

of your experiences at Guantanamo and Bay Cuba.

0:17

And we're hoping to gather your stories and the testimonies

0:22

of those of other men who have been brought to Guantanamo.

0:26

We are creating an archive of the stories

0:31

so that people in America and in the world

0:34

will have a better understanding

0:37

of what you and others have endured.

0:39

Future generations must know what happened

0:42

and by telling your story you're contributing to history.

0:46

We appreciate and thank you

0:50

for your courage and willingness to speak to us.

0:52

If at any time you would like to take a break

0:57

please tell us and we will stop.

1:01

If at any time you say something

1:04

that you would like to remove,

1:06

just tell us and we will remove it.

1:08

-

Okay.

1:10

Man

If there's any question you don't wanna answer

1:10

please tell us,

1:12

anything you would like, we will always participate

1:13

and always do that.

1:16

-

Okay.

1:18

Man

Okay, and I'd like to begin

1:18

with some basic information including your name,

1:20

and if you can tell me your nationality,

1:24

and if you have any family, if you don't have to tell me,

1:31

but if you want to and if you wanna tell me your language

1:37

what your languages and your religion

1:44

whatever you'd like to tell me,

1:46

but we'd like a little information about you.

1:47

-

Yeah okay, my name is Zakir Jan,

1:50

and the last name is Asam,

1:52

and my nationality is Uzbek.

1:54

And I have a daughter and I have family.

1:59

Actually I had,

2:04

and what else...

2:06

and I am Muslim,

2:09

what else, 38 years old,

2:14

Man

38.

2:18

-

38.

2:19

Man

And can you tell us

2:20

when you first arrived in Guantanamo and when you left?

2:23

-

I arrived from Guantanamo on 16th of June, 2002.

2:26

that was the first made step

2:32

on the ground on Guantanamo.

2:34

Man

Okay, and you were released in when?

2:35

-

In 2006, 17th of November.

2:38

Man

Okay, and I'm just curious how

2:44

before we go into some background,

2:48

why were you sent to Albania?

2:51

Do you know anything about why they sent you to Albania?

2:52

-

Just have a general idea because US government

2:57

can keep monitoring on us, by keeping in Albania,

3:02

because Albania follows all the instruction from US.

3:08

I think that's the point we were sent here.

3:12

Man

And you knew there were wiggles here when you came?

3:15

-

Yeah, I knew.

3:18

Man

We would like to begin by asking you

3:21

to tell us your story

3:23

on how you were arrested and where you were taken

3:25

and what happened to you before you came to Guantanamo?

3:29

Could you tell us some of that?

3:33

-

Yeah, I was living in Afghanistan.

3:34

And when U.S. Air Force starts bombarding Kunduz,

3:39

and some people on some cars came,

3:44

and tell us to leave a village

3:48

because that village will be bombarded

3:51

and we escape a mountain,

3:53

and we spent there night and day.

3:57

And next time, next day, some commanders

4:02

and legal commanders were searching the mountain,

4:09

and they were taking people from mountain

4:13

to clarify who they are.

4:16

And they picked me from the place

4:18

and brought me to one village,

4:21

like a castle, but it wasn't a real castle.

4:25

And, I was kept there,

4:28

and they informed me if I need to go, if I need my freedom

4:33

I should pay them 3,000 US dollars,

4:38

because I am their prey.

4:42

So I couldn't pay.

4:47

And they told me that they're going to sell me

4:49

to US force because they are looking for people,

4:51

for foreigns, for Afghanistan and they are purchasing them.

4:55

Man

And do you, who were these people

5:03

who said they would sell you if you didn't pay?

5:04

-

They were armed commanders but illegal commanders

5:07

Man

Afghani?

5:11

-

Afghan people yes, they were Afghan,

5:12

but they were opposites of Taliban, yeah.

5:15

Man

And then how soon after were you sold?

5:21

-

In the, I think in the beginning 2000, in the May,

5:25

in the beginning of May, 2002,

5:32

I was sold to US force.

5:34

Man

And between the time

5:37

you were grabbed.

5:38

-

I was.

Man

And the time you were sold,

5:40

you were in the castle.

5:41

-

Yes I was in the castle.

5:43

Man

Were you mistreated while you were there?

5:44

-

Yeah, that was very bad treatment to us.

5:46

I couldn't live underground,

5:49

because they kept us in underground,

5:51

and we left twice for our personnel needs.

5:55

Man

And who were you with?

6:01

-

They were one Arab and other,

6:04

were Pakistan from Pakistan, they were.

6:07

Man

Were they all sold to America too?

6:11

-

Yep, all of them, all of us.

6:14

Man

And when Americans took over,

6:16

what did they do with you?

6:19

-

They picked me from Kunduz to Mazar-e Sharif

6:22

and, I spent the three days then they sent me,

6:25

but I saw very bad a treatment there.

6:30

And I was kept in one castle.

6:34

And I spent there three days.

6:37

Then they picked me to airplane

6:39

and, i was sent sent to Bagram.

6:42

Man

Could you describe the treatment

6:47

that they did to you before you were sent to Bagram?

6:48

-

We worked 24 hours during of the day and chuckles,

6:52

even our legs were in chuckles, so we couldn't move fast

6:58

because that chuckles on our legs doesn't let us move fast.

7:07

Man

Were you dressed?

7:12

-

Yeah I were dressed yes.

7:14

Man

Did you wear a mask or?

7:15

-

During, after transport yes.

7:19

Man

And what happened at Bagram?

7:22

-

And they picked me to Bagram,

7:24

and I was treated as very badly,

7:26

because, they put a black bag on my head,

7:28

and they just close my eyes

7:33

with tape, even when I couldn't see anything

7:39

and they cut off my clothes,

7:44

they were four soldiers were holding me,

7:47

and one of them with a scissors cut off my clothes,

7:51

and when I, when they opened my eye,

7:56

when my eyes, I saw a front of me

8:00

only a woman soldiers, only woman soldiers

8:03

they were laughing at me.

8:06

That's that was very bad.

8:08

So according my religion to stand front of a woman,

8:10

absolutely naked,

8:13

that was insulting my religion,

8:15

offending my religion, but I couldn't say any word,

8:19

because two of those soldiers were standing

8:22

in front of me to be ready to beat me.

8:25

Even I couldn't move my with my eyes.

8:28

That was very bad.

8:31

And I didn't understand the time,

8:33

because I hoped justice from US,

8:36

because USA to just, the country of justice.

8:40

And that time, I didn't understand that my idea

8:46

about US was wrong.

8:51

Man

Did you know why they were holding you?

8:53

-

They want to change my clothes,

8:56

and they didn't let me do and to behind some something,

8:58

but they were afraid of me because, yes.

9:04

Man

I'm sorry,

9:08

-

Because they had information on people

9:09

all foreign people in Afghanistan are terrorist.

9:13

And I think there is some security rules

9:17

to treat for people like that.

9:20

Man

Did they tell you they thought you were a terrorist?

9:23

-

No, they didn't say anything

9:25

because they hadn't interpreter.

9:28

By the time i didn't understand Farsi.

9:32

They say something Farsi and English,

9:35

but I didn't understand both.

9:37

Man

And what do you think would happen to you?

9:40

-

And then I was taken to another room

9:43

on the absolutely isolated and that I spent there,

9:46

my hand was behind me, was closing,

9:55

my hand was in chuckles again,

10:00

and then my head was covered by a bag,

10:02

and I spent the night

10:07

Man

And then?

10:11

-

And then they, in the end of that night,

10:12

they brought me a food, plastic food,

10:16

and during of that food of meal,

10:21

they pick my bag from my head,

10:28

they let me eat something.

10:31

And then there was my head again with black bag.

10:34

And, I think one of interrogator came to interrogate me

10:41

and he starts to yell in Farsi something,

10:48

I couldn't understand any words of him.

10:51

And I said I don't understand anything.

10:55

And I spent another day there.

10:58

I think in the end of that day,

11:01

in the beginning of the evening,

11:05

I was sent to a regular room.

11:07

They were about 10 people.

11:11

And, I went there.

11:16

Man

Did you have a better understanding?

11:21

Did the other people tell you what was going on?

11:22

Did you know about 9/11,

11:24

you must have known about 9/11 then, right?

11:26

-

Yes, I heard about it.

11:29

Man

And did the other people tell you

11:30

why they were there or what was going on?

11:31

-

No, because that was prohibited to speak each other.

11:34

Man

And how long were you in Bagram

11:38

before they sent you to Guantanamo?

11:39

-

I spent there for 14 days.

11:43

But after third day,

11:46

no, after a third investigation, interrogation,

11:50

they tortured me, they beat me,

11:54

and I had the operation after that.

11:57

I was into hospital, military hospital

12:01

and I had the operation there,

12:04

but they didn't change a treatment.

12:07

Man

Could you describe what they did when (mumbles)

12:10

-

Okay, in the end of third interrogation,

12:11

one of that interrogator came into the room

12:18

and they start to yell at me by translating

12:21

but there was a big translator.

12:25

I couldn't say that was translator.

12:27

He couldn't understand some Uzbek words.

12:29

Even he couldn't separate kidney with liver.

12:33

He said, "you have problems on your liver,

12:40

"you should have the operation."

12:43

Even he was so fool,

12:45

he couldn't say kidney.

12:47

I said, okay.

12:51

And that day, in the end of that interrogation,

12:52

interrogator entered

13:00

into the room and they start to yell that I have given

13:01

during of three interrogation, three different information.

13:06

I said, if you're so brief, if you're so smart, prove it.

13:09

I was saying, he was taking notes,

13:14

show me there's differences.

13:16

He couldn't show, that was the trick of their investigation.

13:18

And I said, okay, prove it.

13:22

I'll take everything, you're wrong.

13:23

And he said, we'll see, that's the beginning

13:26

of your black days, dark days,

13:28

you know what they mean dark days?

13:31

And I said, okay,

13:34

they still put the bag on my head.

13:36

And I didn't know where they were taking me.

13:41

When I stepped into the door

13:45

step into the room, I felt something very heavy thing

13:47

in my stomach.

13:52

That's gave me very hard

13:54

and my breath, and what you remember then

13:56

I think three or some more movement.

14:01

I was going into my body

14:07

and I lost the concentration,

14:08

that was all, why I should remember.

14:11

And when I open my eye, I was in separated room

14:14

and two soldiers enter into the room.

14:21

They start pushing me still,

14:25

pressing me to do what they say.

14:27

And my body was shaking of pain.

14:31

I said, I cannot do.

14:36

And they get until the end.

14:38

I lost everything, I couldn't control myself.

14:41

And then when I come back, when I opened my eyes

14:45

I was in separated room, but in small room.

14:48

And they came because they take my blood

14:52

for analyze, to analyze.

14:54

And they said, that I have to give it for test urine.

14:56

I said, why?

15:03

Through translator.

15:05

And then I said why?

15:07

Because we have to check something happen with you.

15:08

I said, okay, if you want to check, if not, you may die.

15:11

We may take you by force.

15:14

We may do everything to you by force.

15:15

I said, I refuse to give anything.

15:18

If I die here

15:20

you only say that I will be responsible for my death.

15:21

I need that, because you're doing everything over the rule,

15:25

over the law.

15:30

And they said, okay, we will force.

15:33

I said, try.

15:34

And then came on military doctor.

15:37

And he has taken some blood

15:42

by force, of course, I refuse to give anything.

15:47

And they said, I should be assigned to hospital.

15:51

If I refuse

15:54

they will be taking me by force.

15:56

I said, I refuse.

15:58

And I was taken to the hospital,

15:59

and they operate me there.

16:02

And they said, I lied because I didn't have any appendix.

16:04

And they said, I lied.

16:10

Then I said, I didn't say anything.

16:11

I didn't say I have appendix.

16:13

I said, just I had the pen.

16:15

And even Russia knows a first day of my...

16:17

Day in Guantanamo, I had a real bad swelling

16:25

and that swelling didn't go after operation.

16:31

They said, we cannot do anything.

16:35

But you lied to us.

16:38

I said, no, I didn't say anything.

16:40

I had the problems too.

16:41

And after four days

16:44

they sent me back to Bagram, to prisom,

16:45

I may say to camp.

16:50

They kept me four more days, four or five more days.

16:52

And they didn't pay attention

16:56

of my problems, of my health problems.

16:58

And they pick me to Kandahar.

17:01

I spend in Bagram 14 days.

17:04

Man

And the way you were treated in Bagram,

17:08

do you, once you went back to the cell four days later,

17:11

then they didn't torture you or mistreat you anymore

17:14

until you were sent to Kandahar?

17:18

-

No, they didn't say anything, but I was in separated room,

17:20

isolated room.

17:25

Man

Isolated?

17:26

-

Yes, isolated, and I spent there two days,

17:27

then I was taken to a regular room.

17:29

They will four or five people.

17:32

And I spend there two more days,

17:34

three more days, two, three more days.

17:37

And we were sent to come to Kandahar.

17:40

Man

And how did you endure that?

17:43

What were you thinking?

17:47

How would you survive?

17:48

Did think about how you might survive all this?

17:49

Did you do anything to help you survive?

17:51

-

No, nothing, absolutely nothing.

17:54

Man

What were you thinking?

17:58

Were you thinking of your family or thinking of any?

17:59

-

No, nothing.

18:02

Just, I need to get end of those tortures.

18:03

Man

That's all you were thinking.

18:07

-

Yes (mumbles)

18:08

Man

Did you think maybe you would lie

18:09

and give false testimony to get the end of it?

18:11

Well, anything you think

18:14

you would do anything possible just to end those tortures?

18:16

-

No, nothing, nothing.

18:20

Didn't come to my mind.

18:22

Only I think when it gets end.

18:24

I was waiting for that.

18:28

Man

You waited for that?

18:29

-

Yeah, because in the first of investigation

18:31

I ask for a lawyer

18:36

and they said, "you don't need any lawyer.

18:38

'This is military system, we can do anything,

18:41

whatever we want."

18:43

Man

And then when you went to Kandahar,

18:47

what happened there?

18:49

-

Absolutely nothing.

18:51

Even I wasn't taken to investigation.

18:52

They didn't say anything.

18:55

They didn't care about my health problems.

18:56

I spent there 29 days.

18:59

And then I sent to Guantanamo.

19:01

Man

And what were your health problems

19:04

while you were in Kandahar?

19:06

even I had teeth problems

19:07

and I had still problems with my stomach.

19:10

Man

Could you eat?

19:14

-

I complained many times.

19:15

No one take the attention.

19:17

No one took attention for my complains.

19:19

Man

Could you eat while you were?

19:20

-

Just a little bit.

19:22

Woman

Were they caused by the beatings?

19:24

-

Sorry?

19:26

Woman

Were your health problems caused?

19:27

-

Yeah, that was the cause of beating me.

19:29

Man

And so at Kandahar you weren't

19:32

as mistreated the same way you were in Bagram.

19:35

They left you alone in Kandahar,

19:38

is that what you're saying?

19:39

-

No, they even, they didn't take me to investigate.

19:40

Man

They didn't do any interrogation, nothing?

19:44

-

They didn't do anything.

19:46

Man

Were you in solitary, in Kandahar?

19:46

Or were you with other people in Kandahar?

19:48

Were you alone in solitary?

19:51

-

No, we were into the one big,

19:53

Man

One big room?

19:56

-

like a camp,

19:57

and we weren't there 13.

19:59

Man

And could you describe your trip

20:03

from Kandahar to Guantanamo?

20:06

-

And that was say,

20:09

from one time they pick about 40 people

20:13

to our airplane and we were treated very badly

20:18

because they kept our arm

20:24

with a thing like a wire, even you couldn't move.

20:29

If you try to move, it hurts, unpleasurable,

20:34

it was very hard.

20:38

And we were taken, our heads were covered by black bag.

20:39

And when we change airplane somewhere,

20:49

I don't know even,

20:52

after six hours, or for I think,

20:53

and they change airplane.

20:56

And they used to wear goggles, big goggles.

20:58

And they use gloves for our hands,

21:07

our legs and arms were chuckle again

21:14

our legs were chuckled on the floor.

21:20

Even when we couldn't go more than once two toilets.

21:25

When we asked something

21:30

they have give only one apple and one water bottle.

21:32

That's all what we had.

21:37

And was a little longer than 22 hours

21:40

and we went to Guantanamo.

21:46

Man

Where you giving injections

21:48

before you got on the plane

21:50

or any suppositories or anything,

21:52

did they give you any medication at all

21:55

before you got into plane?

21:56

-

No, just stick it, something on my neck,

21:57

that's all.

22:01

Man

And did you wear diapers?

22:02

-

Sorry?

22:05

Man

Did you wear diapers?

22:06

Did you have to wear diapers?

22:07

-

What kind of a diaper?

22:08

Man

A diaper?

22:09

-

What is diaper?

22:10

Woman

(mumbles)

22:11

-

Oh, like a Pampers, you mean?

22:20

No, they didn't do anything.

22:21

Man

And what happened?

22:25

Could you tell the story

22:27

of what happened when you were taken off the plane,

22:28

where they took you

22:31

and what that was like when you came to Guantanamo?

22:32

-

Yeah, (mumbles)

22:38

in Guantanamo, we were taken into the bus, special bus

22:40

and all the legs,

22:46

we were put on the floor,

22:51

but touching our forehead

22:58

to the shoulder of other people from the fast,

23:02

and even we couldn't move.

23:04

If someone has tried to move, they come and beat us.

23:05

We couldn't move.

23:10

And that was very, very bad treatment for us.

23:11

And they just beat us, nothing more.

23:15

If someone has tried to move,

23:19

to make any movement.

23:21

Man

And where did they take you?

23:23

-

They take me on some stones

23:26

and I think just taking longer than half hour

23:30

and we entered into the camp of Delta

23:35

and they put us under the sky

23:40

and we were waiting then.

23:43

Some of us more than six hours,

23:46

some of us, more than eight hours, 10 hours.

23:48

Man

And then?

23:53

-

And then we were taken into the medical building.

23:54

Again, they cut off everything from us, old clothes

24:01

and we had one minutes to take a shower.

24:06

And I was taken to investigation room

24:13

and I spent there longer than eight hours, with no reason.

24:18

Man

You were interrogated for eight hours?

24:25

-

I wasn't, that day I wasn't.

24:27

I spent there about six, eight hours

24:29

no one interrogate me and I was taken to block the day.

24:33

Man

Do you know which camp that was?

24:39

-

That was camp2 Mike block.

24:41

Man

And were you in with others in that camp?

24:49

-

Yeah, like cage, we were into the cage

24:52

that was two meter square room.

24:55

They had a metal bar.

25:01

Man

And then?

25:06

-

And the one small mattress

25:07

and two sheets and one blanket, that's all what we had.

25:10

Man

And when were you fully interrogated in Guantanamo?

25:15

Did it come soon after?

25:17

-

I was taken in the third day for interrogation,

25:22

and when I entered into the room,

25:30

I think you were first translator

25:37

during of my investigation.

25:40

Yeah, and the Russian was the first translator.

25:41

And I explained everything

25:46

and one of integrator said,

25:48

that's my older information.

25:52

doesn't submit with the other, what I have given.

25:55

But he was lying.

26:00

I didn't say anything wrong.

26:01

I didn't change any information.

26:03

What I said, I repeated, just nothing more.

26:06

And when I ask how long I be here

26:11

he said, "I cannot say anything, but maybe few weeks

26:13

"if you compromise with us, you'll go home

26:19

"after a few weeks."

26:22

I said, okay, but

26:25

Man

Did you believe them?

26:25

-

I didn't believe.

26:26

Man

Why not?

26:27

-

Because I was with no reason there.

26:29

Even when they ask why I am here, they couldn't answer me.

26:33

-

And were you mistreated while you were there,

26:39

in Guantanamo?

26:42

-

Yeah, when I tried to ask for my rights

26:44

and a second investigation,

26:51

second integration was very badly

26:53

and he said, "you need a room, your rights."

26:55

I said, yes.

26:58

And they have given my rights by sending to mental clinic.

26:59

Man

Could you describe exactly

27:05

how that interrogation worked

27:06

and how they ended up sending you

27:08

to a mental clinic and what happened?

27:09

Kinda tell the story about that whole thing?

27:11

-

Yeah, first time.

27:13

Sorry, I was sent for punish,

27:18

for punish block.

27:22

You know, they set a new,

27:22

and block November for punishment

27:24

and I was sent there.

27:28

And no one could explain to me, what's a reason.

27:29

And next day, when I complained about my situation

27:33

and why I was sent there and my interrogator

27:37

called Russian interpreter, and he said

27:42

as he promised me, he will give it to my rights.

27:47

He said, "that is is your right."

27:54

And that day I understood

27:57

that I was wrong by asking for my rights.

28:01

And after two days,

28:04

no, sorry, I spent there eight days with no reason

28:07

that they said I tried hurt myself.

28:11

How, I don't know.

28:16

They said they have found something in my room.

28:17

That was a lie.

28:20

That wasn't true.

28:23

And I was I sent to mental clinic.

28:24

I spent there a few days

28:29

then I was sent another time to another block.

28:30

And, but I was monitoring that, that time.

28:37

And I spent the one day

28:41

and one of soldier reported to DOC,

28:45

Detention Operating Center, that I want to hurt myself.

28:49

I was taken to punish block again,

28:54

that time for India block,

28:55

that work was for punishing detainees.

29:00

I was taken there, I spent three days,

29:04

three, four days

29:07

and I was sent back to another block, to Alpha block.

29:09

Man

So why did they keep doing that to you?

29:14

What do you think was going on?

29:17

-

Because I was lying, you know

29:18

You know, I wasn't giving a true information.

29:20

Man

That's what they said?

29:23

-

And they said, yes.

29:24

And because I asked for lawyer,

29:25

they said, "you don't need the lawyer."

29:29

Man

And that's why they put you in a mental block?

29:32

-

Yes, because I asked for my rights.

29:35

Man

And what can you describe

29:37

how it in the mental block?

29:40

What the experience was like and who else was there

29:42

and what you did all day?

29:44

-

First time

29:46

it's very difficult to remember by detail everything

29:48

because it was a long time ago and they'll bring you pills

29:51

samples, even they don't explain

29:58

what kind of pills they are feeding you.

30:00

Man

What are they (mumbles)

30:05

-

If you refuse, they will give you shot injection.

30:05

And because when I spent on special block a few weeks

30:10

I didn't understand

30:15

that they are treating with the people

30:16

worse than an animal,

30:18

because some animals are treaten better than humans,

30:19

human and other countries

30:24

because some detainees were taken by force for injection

30:26

when they keep doing injection after 20 days, they repeat.

30:31

After the third time you lost your mind.

30:37

Man

So what happened to you with the pills

30:40

and with the injections, what did happen to you?

30:42

-

First time, they tried to burn detainee on the bed.

30:45

They burn everything, and they gave you one injection

30:52

after the injection, even a human

30:58

doesn't need a life anymore, because he wants to die,

31:03

after that injection.

31:06

Man

What does it do to you?

31:07

What did that injection do?

31:09

-

That's very difficult for me

31:10

because all my body was shaking after that injection.

31:12

And I didn't understand

31:18

because they were threatening me

31:19

by giving another injection,

31:22

If I don't behave.

31:25

Man

Were you ever violent yourself?

31:30

Did they ever,

31:31

did you ever attack a guard or attack something?

31:32

-

Never, never

31:35

Man

Did you attacked the walls or attack?

31:36

-

Nope, no, no.

31:38

Man

Throw things or do anything that,

31:40

throw water on the guard?

31:43

-

First year no,

31:44

I didn't do anything.

31:46

I didn't offend any soldiers.

31:47

I didn't offend any of them

31:49

Man

Later on, you did?

31:52

-

Because they treated unjust with me,

31:53

then I stepped to do, because I couldn't do anything

31:56

than do those bad things.

31:59

I didn't offend anyone.

32:01

I didn't attack anyone.

32:03

Man

When you, later on what happened,

32:06

could you tell me what happened later on?

32:08

-

When they send someone else to mental block

32:15

they will be in the list of, you know, psych list.

32:19

They will come and ask and that

32:28

they will do some situation to make their life

32:31

their being there a little bit easier.

32:33

They try to give chockers, play chess

32:37

and they change the food.

32:43

They treat a little bit better than other detainees

32:46

that was everything, what can do.

32:53

And they prepared for the next investigation,

32:54

that mental clinic prepared all the detainees

32:58

for next interrogation, that's all.

33:04

Man

When you took pills, what did the pills do to you?

33:07

-

Nothing, if there are those pills,

33:10

I just slept nothing more.

33:12

Man

And what were you thinking

33:15

while you were in the middle block?

33:17

And were going through all this?

33:18

-

Because I asked for my rights.

33:22

I refuse to answer before I got all the information

33:24

from them, about my rights, about everything.

33:27

They couldn't break the law openly

33:33

and they use another way to punish me

33:37

because I am asking you for rights, for the law.

33:41

Man

And when you met other people

33:44

in the mental clinic, what kind of people did you meet?

33:45

And what happened to them?

33:48

-

Actually, most of them were showing themselves

33:52

like a crazy, but they were completely healthy.

33:54

There were escaping that interrogation period.

33:58

Not to give a wrong information

34:02

because they use all the information.

34:06

What you say against you,

34:08

but never for your benefits, never.

34:11

Man

Are you saying the other people

34:16

in the middle block were faking it so they could be there?

34:17

Or were they crazy themselves?

34:20

-

They show themselves like a crazy

34:22

but most of them weren't.

34:25

Man

But most of them were not.

34:27

-

Were not.

34:28

Man

Were you able to talk to them?

34:29

-

Yes.

34:31

I learned their Farsi.

34:32

I learned that Arabic.

34:34

Man

And were they beaten?

34:36

-

Yes, they were beaten

34:39

how to say, for example they were treated,

34:41

all of us were treated very badly there

34:45

because they should do attack into the room, anytime.

34:47

I mean, soldiers could enter into the room anytime

34:49

they could spray anytime the gas

34:53

they could make any injection any time when they want.

34:57

Man

So could you describe when you were attacked?

35:01

One time, can you describe the situation?

35:05

-

Okay, they come say they will come

35:07

and say just come front

35:11

of the fan and you should calm.

35:13

Even, you don't come.

35:17

I am warning you once.

35:19

And they prepare special team for entering into the room

35:21

with mask, with everything, with the big glasses (mumbles)

35:27

and they prepared everything.

35:32

Because all the detainees

35:34

couldn't patient, because they were treated very badly.

35:38

They were ready for everything

35:41

for hurts themselves, to do anything beacause that was,

35:43

I couldn't say that was a revenge to give them,

35:48

but they were tired.

35:50

US I may say military

35:53

and the US mental clinic made them tired.

35:56

Man

And to you, were you attacked?

36:01

-

Yeah, sure, because I didn't...

36:03

who likes to be monitored 24 hours a day?

36:07

No one, even we couldn't go to the bathroom

36:11

without monitoring.

36:17

Man

So why were you attack?

36:18

What happened?

36:19

-

You know what they say,

36:21

show me that one, show me that one (mumbles)

36:22

be controlled 24 hours can not be command

36:26

under command, 24 hours.

36:29

Sometimes I refused.

36:33

I said, no, why?

36:34

You have no reason to ask you didn't enter anything

36:36

into the room by breaking some rule.

36:39

So if you sure,

36:42

nothing wrong in my room, why are you asking?

36:44

" No, no, you should be under command.

36:45

"what we say, you must do."

36:49

Every step, they're attacking the room.

36:53

Man

Could you describe the attack

36:56

and what happened to you?

36:57

-

Yeah, they will.

36:58

They had two nurses and a one special team

36:59

that was in special mask, special glasses, a big glasses,

37:08

and they stand front of the cell,

37:16

front of the cage and the gas was ready to spread.

37:19

And before they entered the room,

37:27

that's put the gas first, and they entered into the room.

37:28

Man

And where they take you?

37:33

-

They took for special room and they bank

37:34

on the banners, on the bed

37:38

and they made the injection by force

37:41

Man

So they didn't beat you,

37:44

they just gave you an injection.

37:45

-

No, to hold you, to keep you, they may hurt annything,

37:47

they may push everywhere where they want.

37:50

Man

And did you resist?

37:55

-

Sure.

37:57

Man

Did that make it worse?

37:59

Did they then treat you worse?

38:00

-

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:01

If you try to resist, they make it worse.

38:01

Man

But it was worth it for you to fight them.

38:06

-

No, I didn't fight.

38:08

Never, I tried to escape.

38:10

That may action,

38:14

they took it like a resistance, nothing more.

38:16

Man

What do you mean by you tried to escape?

38:20

-

Okay, if someone sprays a gas

38:22

to your face, you try to keep your eyes back.

38:26

Even from the window they open the window

38:30

they spread from everywhere I guess.

38:32

They pick that detainee,

38:37

who was your neighbor out

38:39

they enter from this neighbor room,

38:41

they spread from everywhere, gas.

38:44

They put it down, and then that's all.

38:47

And then they pick you to bed

38:50

on the bed to make the injection.

38:54

You spend there longer than four hours.

38:58

If you spent time with no problems,

39:00

they enter you into the room, they take you back.

39:07

Man

So you returned to the same room.

39:11

-

The same room, with the no stuff into the room.

39:12

They pick everything like a punish,

39:16

because you resist, you are punished

39:19

under punishment and they take everything.

39:22

Man

And when you left the mental block

39:24

where did they take you then?

39:26

-

Everywhere, and one time they picked me to golf block

39:28

and I was monitoring 24 hours.

39:37

Two soldiers from a mental clinic or writing everything,

39:42

were sitting in front of my cage.

39:46

They were writing all the my moment,

39:50

what I'm doing, even I'm going to bathroom.

39:51

When the doctor read everything,

39:54

and he complain, why you're monitoring everything,

39:57

why they are taking notes.

39:59

He said, just they're monitoring nothing worst for you.

40:01

Just don't do anything wrong.

40:05

That's doesn't make it a problem.

40:08

As I said, okay, that was all there.

40:11

I spent a few weeks there.

40:13

I couldn't live longer another blocks

40:22

because, okay, we have to do special treatment

40:27

for you because you had mental problems.

40:30

Actually, I hadn't.

40:32

And they picked me to mental clinic again

40:35

because we cannot do a special treatment

40:41

with you to give a special food

40:44

to give extra staff than other detainees

40:46

because they start making problems

40:50

by asking we needed those stuff too.

40:53

So they tried to kept me.

40:56

Man

Did a psychologist or a psychiatrist

40:59

ever interview you?

41:01

-

Yeah, twice in a week.

41:03

Man

Could you describe what that is like?

41:06

-

He comes and,

41:09

will you behave, want to hurt yourself.

41:14

What kind of problems you have.

41:19

But when you explain your problems

41:21

your situation, they never use for your benefits.

41:25

They use for investigators benefits.

41:29

You may investigate with that way.

41:31

You may interogate with that way.

41:34

He had the problems.

41:36

Actually the doctors prepared for investigators,

41:38

for investigation nothing more.

41:42

Man

Did you participate?

41:45

Did you answer their questions?

41:46

-

During the interview, what is cycle,

41:49

what is (indistinct)?

41:51

Yes, because between them were some good people

41:53

who really wished goods for us.

42:01

And they suggest to answer correctly to their question.

42:04

If we need to get out from mental clinic

42:09

and I answered what they expected

42:13

and I left that place even I got tired then,

42:17

because, you know,

42:22

human being needs communicate with other people as well.

42:24

I couldn't live there anymore.

42:27

And they left me alone

42:30

until a group of investigator came from my country.

42:33

Man

From Uzbekistan?

42:41

-

From Uzbekistan.

42:42

Man

Can you describe how that went?

42:43

What that was about?

42:46

-

That was very bad treatment, that's all what I can say.

42:46

Before that I was taken for interrogation room

42:50

and one US Navy integrator

42:58

enter the room with the Russian translator

43:01

and just entered and said, "you know (mumbles)

43:05

"I am your future."

43:12

I said, really?

43:14

Who are you?

43:16

You are a God

43:17

if you, my future, because everything comes from a Alah.

43:19

I said, you're my God?

43:24

He said, "no because everything concern

43:28

"with my notes about you.

43:32

"If you write something to commander,

43:33

you will leave this camp as soon as I get response

43:35

from commander, I may write a positive things about you

43:39

if you answer my question."

43:43

I said, I answered everything.

43:44

If you need some information, go back to my case.

43:46

You may read everything, nothing to add.

43:48

And he start to yell at me, start to just come

43:51

and he pushed on my neck

43:55

And he said he started to do some funny things

43:57

because he wasn't interrogator

44:02

as other one, he had no experience.

44:07

He's just

44:10

he wants to show himself that he may quit everything

44:10

and I'll afraid of his treatment

44:13

and then I'll say another thing

44:15

what I didn't say before.

44:17

I said, are you crazy?

44:19

And then he left the room and he come back after half hours

44:21

and said, "aha, I understood everything

44:24

"because you were treated as a crazy and you're crazy."

44:28

I said, okay, if I'm crazy, go away.

44:32

Why you are interrogating me?

44:35

And he started yell, to push me again.

44:37

I didn't say anything.

44:41

I didn't do anything.

44:43

And the next day I was taken to investigate

44:45

with people from my country, that's in the back.

44:52

I don't want to go back.

44:57

Man

Did the Red cross talk to you?

44:59

-

Yeah, but I did understand that

45:04

nothing benefit I can take from them.

45:06

I didn't communicate them.

45:09

I said, okay, just a regular conversation, nothing more.

45:12

Man

You didn't feel they could help you or you didn't?

45:16

-

No, I didn't feel.

45:19

Man

Why not?

45:21

-

Because they were working for the US government.

45:22

They were taking, collecting, selecting some information

45:24

and that's US government couldn't find

45:28

during interrogation.

45:32

Man

Did you see other people who were actually,

45:36

besides being hurt?

45:42

Did you see other people who were beaten

45:43

in other situations?

45:46

-

Yes, sure.

45:47

Even in mental clinic, I guess

45:48

in the end of November, 2002, they brought 14 detainees

45:52

from Russia who were captured,

46:02

who escaped from Cheech, that time they told me

46:05

that history had one of them was treated very badly.

46:11

He was beaten and he was tortured.

46:15

Even they pulled

46:19

a very hard projector on his head to affect his mind.

46:22

I don't know what they want that time

46:29

and the, he was tortured very badly,

46:32

even he was tortured in Russia,

46:34

then he was sent to Guantanamo.

46:36

Man

He told you this?

46:39

-

Yeah, he told me that, his history.

46:40

Man

Did you ever observe

46:42

or witness anybody being tortured?

46:43

Could you see that?

46:46

Or people just told you

46:46

when they came back to the cells.

46:48

-

In Guantanamo, I mean he was tortured.

46:51

No, I know.

46:53

I knew one group of detainees

46:55

who were sent to another country

46:58

for torturing and the for investigating.

47:01

And US government used way

47:05

to send detainees to another country

47:07

to find another information.

47:12

Man

Do you know what country

47:15

US would send those people to?

47:16

-

One group?

47:21

I think 16 of detainees were sent

47:21

into Arabic country,

47:28

I don't know exactly where an Arabic country is,

47:30

one of Arab countries, and they were tortured there.

47:33

And then they were sent back to Guantanamo

47:38

they kept and, and close to beach in Guantanamo

47:41

because one of soldiers told me that history

47:46

when I was in Yiguana, in camp Yiguana.

47:51

And he told me that history, that they were sent

47:55

to another Arab country to torture.

47:59

And then they were pick back to Guantanamo..

48:04

And they were in bad situation now in bad treatment.

48:09

And because they complained many times

48:13

about a situation in Yiguana camp

48:15

because that time US government said

48:17

"I am not enemy combatant."

48:20

And even the time I was monitoring 24 hours

48:22

in day, I said, I am not enemy combatant and I am innocent.

48:24

Why are you monitoring me?

48:30

I was completely disagree with that situation.

48:32

And then honest, and I try not to follow the rule.

48:34

If I am not enemy, if I am innocent.

48:38

Why I should be controlled?

48:43

Just opened the door.

48:46

Let me go away.

48:47

Where you go, because have you heard about Bumgarner"

48:49

A Colonel Bumgarner, Mike Bumgarner?

48:55

Man

No.

48:58

-

Yeah, and he was the commander

48:59

of JDOG joined detention operating group.

49:02

And he tried to help for people to do something.

49:08

And I heard from my lawyers,

49:20

he treated very badly from US government.

49:22

He tried to do something good for detainees

49:25

because he did didn't understand the time

49:27

we weren't treating very badly

49:29

and that we were innocent.

49:31

And that he tried to explain the situation,

49:34

what's going on in out of Guantanamo.

49:36

And he told me that, he said that he can not send me back

49:40

to my country and they're working on my case.

49:43

And then I asked

49:48

I ask if so, why you don't follow?

49:49

That time, they made it a small wall.

49:52

They kept there the convention of Geneva,

49:58

from Geneva, you know general convention?

50:03

Man

Mhmhh.

50:05

-

And there was a law

50:06

under some rules, but they didn't follow.

50:09

When I asked them to follow that rules.

50:12

They said, you know, we just hang them with and follow

50:15

and then accomplish to Bumgarner,

50:18

he said, you know the situation,

50:20

all that comes from the top, I can not do anything.

50:22

I should follow this order

50:25

but I'll do my best to make your situation better.

50:27

He tried to help.

50:30

And even we were controlled very badly there.

50:34

And I was sent, even, they send me after CRT.

50:37

You know what's a CRT,

50:43

after CRT, I was treated very badly,

50:45

then I can't play that on my situation.

50:47

And because of it,

50:49

I was sent to mental block twice,

50:50

because I was asked for the law,

50:54

that law they should follow.

50:57

Man

So after the CRT, when you asked for the law,

50:59

they sent you to the mental block?

51:01

-

Yeah, to mental block.

51:02

And then the commander of that mental block explained me

51:05

that I should follow the instruction.

51:09

And he said, we know you didn't do anything wrong

51:13

but we follow the older from the highest one.

51:17

Man

Did you see any dogs

51:22

while you were in Guantanamo?

51:24

-

Yeah, sure.

51:25

When they search a block, they entered into the block

51:26

and they keep around.

51:29

They took a circle with dogs,

51:34

the special force with a special clothes.

51:37

Man

Did they use the dogs with you too then?

51:43

with the dogs there, whenever searching your cell?

51:46

-

They did enter into the block.

51:50

They stand around the block, but they treated very badly.

51:53

When a friend of mine ask for the commander

51:59

higher than Capitan in Yuguana camp,

52:04

it happened when they told us we are not enemy.

52:08

And when they said, there was a very funny system.

52:13

Soldiers try to do some troubles

52:21

by themselves because they knew

52:24

and they know now, no one can complain higher to soldiers

52:27

your complaint doesn't go anywhere.

52:32

And they tried to play with us during, after pray call

52:36

during have over pray.

52:40

They come out and they start yelling, started making noise.

52:41

No, to ignore us, our pray

52:49

because it prohibited during after pray

52:51

to make a noise especially for the pray call.

52:54

And they start laughing of our religion.

52:59

And they went pray call.

53:07

you know, pray call when comes from speaker.

53:09

They were laughing at prey calls, making joke on it.

53:13

That's offending all religion.

53:16

It's very bad for Muslims.

53:18

And a friend of mine that time

53:21

when we were in Yiguana camp after CRT ask,

53:23

"okay, if so, I need to commander"

53:26

From, soldier asked to call commander.

53:30

He said, no, if not, I will ask for (indistinct).

53:33

It's okay, call.

53:38

He said, no, no, no, no,

53:39

but he didn't do anything wrong.

53:41

Just he broke the TV.

53:43

Then came, one a special group with a special car,

53:46

with a big weapons.

53:50

That's time I scared even,

53:51

who we are like a terrorist they treated us.

53:53

He was taking to special place

53:57

I don't know where that time.

53:59

Man

Did you see the Qur'an being?

54:03

-

Yeah, sure.

54:05

Man

Could you describe what you saw?

54:06

-

You know, some soldiers explained the situation,

54:10

when I was in chattle block,

54:13

they made a special problems with the Qur'an,

54:16

they have taken one Afghan detainee out

54:19

and he just entered the room

54:24

for surgery room and he just picked the Qur'an.

54:26

And that time was (indistinct) for shoulder

54:29

not to touch Qur'an because that was organized

54:31

to make special problems

54:35

with the camp, even not just with block,

54:37

they organized problems with Muslim, why?

54:40

If someone else picks Qur'an

54:43

and throws away to toilet, that's a very bad

54:45

bad for Muslims to see even,

54:49

and then not to make problems

54:51

not to protest for that action.

54:53

And he was just entered into the room.

54:55

He just picked the Qur'an, threw the into the toilet.

54:57

Man

You saw that?

55:01

-

No, friend of mine,

55:02

he was in that neighbor room

55:03

when Afghan was taken out from his room.

55:05

And that time he was a Arab from Arabic country.

55:09

And at that time he start yelling.

55:12

He was informing everyone,

55:16

I am Muslim, just look at it.

55:18

He makes the problems on purpose.

55:20

And that was the beginning of problems.

55:25

And that was the beginning of hunger strike.

55:28

Man

Did you participate in the hunger strike?

55:32

-

Yes.

55:34

Man

Could you describe how that happened

55:34

and what happened to you?

55:37

-

And I start, keep hunger strike,

55:38

I didn't eat.

55:44

Didn't drink anything during 12 days.

55:45

And the commander of mental clinic

55:49

came in front of my room with a translator

55:54

and he explained the situation,

55:57

and he said, "we should take you into the mental clinic."

56:00

Because they started making problems

56:03

and you get punished with no reason.

56:06

We now, you do everything,

56:08

you don't do anything bad.

56:10

And they said, no.

56:12

And I was taking a special room.

56:16

That period of hunger strike.

56:18

And a captain from Navy,

56:20

Navy captain entered into the room.

56:25

Okay, "why are you keep hunger strike?

56:27

This time I explained,

56:31

your soldiers, and your government

56:32

insulting our religion, even, I don't know why I'm here.

56:35

What's the reason?

56:39

That's really difficult.

56:40

Okay, if you want, I may start eating now

56:41

but I should know why I am here.

56:45

How long I'm going to be here.

56:47

Explain what reason, if I innocent, just show me my crime.

56:50

And he said, that's a very difficult question.

56:58

I can not get answer right now,

57:00

but I may send your request to state department.

57:02

I said, okay, but you should eat now,

57:06

but I am not going to die during.

57:08

Okay, how long I asked, how long it takes time?

57:09

He said, "two, three days."

57:13

Okay, I wait for two, three days.

57:15

I'm not going to die during of two, three days.

57:18

That was six or seven days of my hunger strike.

57:20

And that affect very badly for US government.

57:25

They didn't accept that hunger strike.

57:28

That was the first hunger strike.

57:30

And I explained, I'm not going to die

57:32

during of two, three days.

57:33

Okay, I will wait for your response, Okay?

57:34

He said, "okay."

57:37

And I was in back, but

57:37

Man

Were you forced fed?

57:45

-

That time no.

57:48

Man

Sometime you were?

57:50

-

Sometime, yes.

57:51

Man

Could you describe the other times (mumbles)

57:52

-

They pulled a plastic tube through your nose

57:53

and they fed you with the (indistinct)

57:56

Man

And why did you go on hunger strike the second time?

58:00

Or third time or (mumbles)

58:02

-

Because of, again, there were making problems

58:06

with our with our religion,

58:11

by throwing Qur'an into the toilet

58:13

and ripping Qur'an, just tearing them to piece.

58:15

Man

And that's why you went on a hunger strike?

58:19

-

Yep.

58:21

Man

And how many days was it

58:22

before they started force feeding you?

58:23

-

No, after the third time

58:26

I was taken to hospital and I was forced to eat

58:29

and they fed me through plastic tube through my nose.

58:34

Even the time I refuse, but I was forced

58:40

Man

And how long did that go on?

58:42

-

Six days.

58:44

Man

And then why you stop?

58:45

-

And they said

58:47

they're going to do a better condition for Muslim.

58:49

They never going to makeup problems with our religion.

58:52

And then I stopped.

58:56

Man

Did you ever try to commit suicide?

58:59

-

Sorry?

59:02

Man

Did he ever try to commit suicide?

59:02

-

They blind me on it

59:04

and it was very difficult to be patient

59:06

to their unjust treatment.

59:09

I show myself to escape the treatment

59:12

that's I want suicide but that wasn't true.

59:16

Man

Did you know anybody

59:20

who did try to commit suicide?

59:22

-

Yes, I think already six of them died

59:24

because it's prohibited to kill themself for Muslim

59:32

because that was very bad treatment for Muslim,

59:38

even they couldn't patient for the treatment.

59:41

That there is a reason.

59:45

Man

In the metal clinic,

59:47

did you see people who tried to commit suicide?

59:48

-

No, they were very clever.

59:52

I may say like me.

59:59

Man

Excuse me.

1:00:01

-

I may say like me, to escape investigation process.

1:00:02

Man

And the way you escaped

1:00:10

from the investigation processes is.

1:00:11

Man

Because they start pushing me

1:00:13

to give wrong information

1:00:15

to catch me and some wrong information.

1:00:17

I didn't want it.

1:00:20

I said, if you're (indistinct) something,

1:00:21

you're sure that, you'll have to say all information.

1:00:24

Man

Did you, was the doctors coming?

1:00:35

Were doctors present a lot with you too,

1:00:38

besides psychologist?

1:00:40

-

What kind of doctors?

1:00:41

Man

Well,

1:00:43

-

Medical, physical.

Man

Why were they doing medical checks on you?

1:00:44

-

Yeah, sometimes when you call doctor

1:00:50

even nurse, they didn't come,

1:00:52

to make it even a regular apartment

1:00:56

when you complaint it will be taken

1:00:59

after a few months, for example, I can pull up many times.

1:01:00

They just pulled up my teeth with no reason.

1:01:05

I said, just fill it.

1:01:07

They said, "no, we will just pull them off."

1:01:08

And they pulled off my teeth, five of them.

1:01:11

And when I had some physical, medical problems

1:01:19

I tell psych doctors to care about my medical problems,

1:01:25

physical medical problems, and they try to do something.

1:01:31

Man

So when you came from Kandahar

1:01:35

to Guantanamo, you still had a medical problem.

1:01:38

-

Yep.

1:01:42

Man

Did the doctors

1:01:43

-

Even they didn't pay attention

1:01:44

to my problems that day.

1:01:45

Man

Did they ever (mumbles)

1:01:47

-

Didn't

1:01:48

Man

They never did.

1:01:50

-

They never did.

1:01:50

Man

When you left Guantanamo

1:01:52

were the medical problems still there?

1:01:53

-

When I left, no.

1:01:56

Man

They went away.

1:01:58

-

Yeah (mumbles)

1:01:59

Man

Could you describe how you first found a lawyer

1:02:01

and your meetings

1:02:05

with lawyers and how that worked?

1:02:06

-

Through, Abubakar, you know him?

1:02:12

Man

Yes.

1:02:14

-

He said, if you want, I may sent my lawyer,

1:02:15

they may send just someone else to be your own lawyer.

1:02:20

I said, okay, that was the reason.

1:02:23

But during CRT, they said I will have one

1:02:26

a military lawyers.

1:02:33

Actually, he worked to make it worse for me not to help.

1:02:36

Man

Why was that?

1:02:41

-

Because during of military tribunal he told

1:02:43

another thing but I did understand that time, English,

1:02:50

not too much, but I could catch them

1:02:54

when they tried to give wrong information.

1:02:59

Even translator worked for them, not for me.

1:03:03

When I said,

1:03:09

for example, when I said I left at village

1:03:10

one day before they start bombarding that village

1:03:14

and the interpreter said, "he left that village

1:03:16

"while they were bombarding."

1:03:21

I said, stop.

1:03:23

And I asked in English that time, wasn't my English like now

1:03:25

I asked the president of the tribunal,

1:03:30

You asked that question, yeah?

1:03:34

"Yes."

1:03:35

And she gives to you that answer?

1:03:36

"Yes,"

1:03:38

that was wrong.

1:03:39

And she stands as by keeping up her hand.

1:03:40

I apologize, get my apologize for tribunal, I was wrong.

1:03:43

I said, why are you playing hard?

1:03:47

This is tribunal,

1:03:50

not just regular appointment with the doctor,

1:03:51

if you didn't have some appointment to make us some problems

1:03:53

or mistake acceptable, what are you doing?

1:03:56

And I feel refuse from that translator

1:03:59

and her name was Shakhida or Shakhista,

1:04:03

I guess he was from US.

1:04:08

And she understood Uzbek, Russian language.

1:04:11

Woman

(mumbles)

1:04:19

-

We were taking together even.

1:04:22

Man

Did you know him before you came to Guantanamo?

1:04:24

-

No, I didn't.

1:04:26

He was very funny guy.

1:04:28

I am talking about, Uzbek (laughs)

1:04:30

Woman

(mumbles)

1:04:34

-

Yeah, I heard about he's lawyer, but I am not sure

1:04:36

that he really is or not.

1:04:39

(murmurs)

1:04:40

Man

Can we talk about that on camera?

1:04:42

Can we ask you about that?

1:04:44

Can you talk?

1:04:46

-

Yes, sure.

1:04:47

Man

There were other Uzbeks in Guantanamo?

1:04:48

And did you know them?

1:04:51

And could you tell us how you got to know them

1:04:52

and how you have to be friendly with them?

1:04:55

-

I didn't know one of them even

1:04:58

before Guantanamo, when first time I was taken

1:05:00

to mental clinic, I heard about Abu Bakr,

1:05:02

his real name, Ibeck

1:05:06

issued release from Guantanamo,

1:05:09

now to Ireland and he looks so funny.

1:05:11

You never miss when you've been with him.

1:05:13

Oh, he was a funny, he spent his time

1:05:17

with some patients to do fun of solders

1:05:21

to make them problems by talking to them.

1:05:26

And he loves girls very much.

1:05:29

And when I entered first time mental clinic

1:05:34

he asked, "who's the detainee who entered this part

1:05:36

"because I heard someone else entered into the"

1:05:40

That was Delta block,

1:05:43

"enter the Delta block, he was Uzbek"

1:05:44

I said, yes, I am Uzbek.

1:05:46

We were yelling each other

1:05:47

you know, from the distance, maybe he was far away

1:05:48

30 meters or 40 meters from me.

1:05:50

And, "who, what's your name?"

1:05:53

I said, my name is Zakir, what's your name.

1:05:55

"My name is Abu Bakr."

1:05:57

And they knew to tear each other.

1:05:59

And then he asked site commander to get closer to me.

1:06:06

And he was moved from his place to right front of my cage.

1:06:11

Man

Wow.

1:06:15

-

Yeah, and we spent two days

1:06:16

and he was a little troublemaker, you know,

1:06:18

he never patients someone else

1:06:20

made unjust treatment to him.

1:06:22

His starts spitting on them vow to face.

1:06:24

He just call and said, "Hey, how are you?"

1:06:27

And he knew very well,

1:06:29

I think he knows very well, English,

1:06:30

now better than mine, I guess.

1:06:33

And he calls soldier and said, "Hey, how are you?"

1:06:35

With some funny things

1:06:38

because he wants to get (mumbles)

1:06:41

how, by spitting on face,

1:06:42

he said, "Hey, how are you?"

1:06:44

I am okay.

1:06:45

Because that was the way to get way around, you know,

1:06:46

and when he comes closer, he spits on his face

1:06:49

and he gets so happy.

1:06:55

When I ask, why you doing problems?

1:06:57

Now they come to pick you to get punished.

1:06:59

Now he said, no, you know (mumbles)

1:07:01

I don't anything

1:07:07

and he will be taken to other block, to get punished.

1:07:08

And he started making problems down there

1:07:11

then he will take him back

1:07:14

in other time to mental clinic.

1:07:15

And he used that method to get back

1:07:18

to mental clinic, to get a better treated.

1:07:21

Man

Why are you better treated metal clinic?

1:07:25

-

Because they said, "don't make proud muster this detainee.

1:07:27

"He makes, he may do some problems.

1:07:31

"He may hurt himself, don't do."

1:07:34

Because all those comes from commander, common staff

1:07:37

common groups,

1:07:40

and they said, "don't treat them."

1:07:42

And that they sticked a red sticker on the cage.

1:07:44

If you have a red sticker

1:07:48

no one comes and plays with,

1:07:50

no one comes and push to you, so hardly,

1:07:52

they do with another detainees, not with you

1:07:56

Man

Because?

1:07:59

-

Because you had a red sticker on you cage.

1:08:00

Man

Which means

1:08:03

-

Which means you are a danger detainee

1:08:04

and the danger mental patient, you know,

1:08:06

Man

Did you have a red sticker?

1:08:09

-

Always.

1:08:11

I had always a red sticker on my cage.

1:08:12

That helped me.

1:08:17

Man

I hadn't heard that before.

1:08:19

Could you go back to the lawyers?

1:08:23

-

Mhmhh

1:08:25

Man

So you got to meet a lawyer and

1:08:26

was that helpful for you?

1:08:31

Did lawyers help you?

1:08:33

And also did the government ever pretend?

1:08:34

-

From CSRT you mean?

1:08:37

Man

No, when you met Abu Bakr, (mumbles)

1:08:38

-

Oh, yeah, I think it happened

1:08:41

in the end of November, 2004.

1:08:44

When I asked for a lawyer through Abu Bakr.

1:08:49

And he said, he told his lawyer on my request

1:08:52

and they will respond as soon as they can.

1:08:58

And after three months I got the first letter

1:09:02

from my lawyer, from Chris, Christopher Moore

1:09:05

from clear (mumbles)

1:09:09

And that was the first letter from the lawyer.

1:09:12

Man

And when you met him,

1:09:15

did they help you?

1:09:16

Do you think they help you get you out?

1:09:17

-

Not so much but they effected a little bit.

1:09:21

Because now they could put some condition

1:09:25

from the state department.

1:09:28

Man

And did the government

1:09:34

ever pretend they were your lawyer?

1:09:36

Did you ever have a governmen?

1:09:38

-

Yeah, they tried to make it somebody else

1:09:39

front of him not to come to meet with me

1:09:41

to do some problems.

1:09:43

And they didn't get it exactly information about me.

1:09:45

Man

Did they ever tell you not to meet with your lawyer?

1:09:51

-

Not openly.

1:09:56

Man

Did they tell you you will be better?

1:09:58

-

No, but Chris told me when he come to Yiguana camp

1:10:00

when he met with me?

1:10:06

Thanks, he explained the situation

1:10:08

what was the problem.

1:10:10

When I asked,

1:10:11

okay, if you're my lawyer

1:10:12

why you didn't come so long

1:10:14

and ask me the situation was?

1:10:17

And he explained what situation is now.

1:10:21

Man

Before you met your lawyer any day

1:10:26

on a day that you were to meet your lawyer

1:10:28

did the government or the military take you

1:10:31

to another place?

1:10:33

-

Yeah, to Eko camp.

1:10:34

(murmurs)

1:10:36

Yes, and when we were in Delta camp

1:10:37

we were taken to Eko camp to meet our lawyers.

1:10:39

Man

Were you taking it the night before?

1:10:42

-

Sometimes before three days.

1:10:46

Sometimes two days.

1:10:48

Sometimes before night.

1:10:49

Man

Did anyone ever ask you to spy

1:10:53

for the United States government?

1:10:55

-

No, because they were afraid of me.

1:10:57

I said, I may work for you.

1:11:01

No one trust you.

1:11:03

Okay, that's enough.

1:11:04

Man

And they were afraid of you because,

1:11:06

because you was too much trouble.

1:11:10

-

No, because, come to see

1:11:11

I had not a friendly relation with the US

1:11:17

because they treated me unjust, you know

1:11:20

because they said, no, no, no.

1:11:23

When I was in camp two, I was taken

1:11:25

four palography tests.

1:11:31

How do we say for detector, palography test.

1:11:35

And they asked me that time, "what are you going

1:11:38

"to do when you leave from Guantanamo?"

1:11:42

I said, I am going to be your guest.

1:11:45

I go to your house.

1:11:47

Man

You said that?

1:11:49

-

Yeah, I said for that's a interrogator

1:11:50

and he was so scared,

1:11:53

said, "no, never come!

1:11:55

"I will come off with my rifle?"

1:11:57

I said, going to kill me?

1:11:59

No, I am protected.

1:12:02

He says, "I said, I'm not going to kill you.

1:12:03

"I am going to have just a friendship with you,

1:12:06

nothing more

1:12:10

"I may give it to you food."

1:12:11

Like I am homeless.

1:12:12

I said, no,

1:12:13

I'm trying to fix my life

1:12:15

my future, if I leave, you know, he was scared.

1:12:17

Man

Were you able to communicate with other detainees?

1:12:24

Was it easy for you to communicate with other detainees?

1:12:28

-

What do you mean to communicate?

1:12:32

Just to talk.

1:12:33

Man

Was it easy to talk?

1:12:35

Were you in isolation a lot or not much?

1:12:36

You're mostly in the middle of clinic or in regular cells.

1:12:39

-

They had two section of mental clinic.

1:12:41

One of them was a isolated,

1:12:46

second part was the regular cages.

1:12:48

I may say, not cells, cages.

1:12:51

And that cages were regular,

1:12:55

through the fan you may communicate with the others.

1:12:57

Man

You were in isolation also?

1:12:59

-

Yeah, many times and a very long time.

1:13:01

Man

How long was the longest time?

1:13:05

-

Sometimes two, three days.

1:13:07

Then I were taken back then started making some problems

1:13:09

not mental problems by soldiers.

1:13:13

And I got anger

1:13:15

Man

Right.

To Us and I started making problems.

1:13:18

Then after that, I wasn't taken

1:13:20

for investigation and they said, "please be quiet.

1:13:25

"We don't arrest you,

1:13:28

"do a doctor say, nothing more."

1:13:31

And then I stopped putting my condition from that doctor.

1:13:34

If so I was taken with no reason.

1:13:37

Now you should follow my instructions, not to follow yours.

1:13:40

"We cannot."

1:13:45

That was their answer.

1:13:46

Man

When you were in isolation,

1:13:49

did that upset you or did you mind you were in isolation?

1:13:51

-

No, I was making

1:13:54

when I was out, I started making problems when I was taken

1:13:56

into the isolation.

1:14:00

I was so quiete to keep out as soon as I could.

1:14:02

And they had no chance then pick me back.

1:14:07

Man

And so it was, was it easy for you in isolation

1:14:11

or did you?

1:14:15

-

I prepared myself for isolation.

1:14:17

Man

How did you prepare yourself?

1:14:19

That's like, well to eat than making powers

1:14:21

and getting to isolation then getting sleep there.

1:14:27

That's all.

1:14:31

Man

When you found out

1:14:43

that you were gonna leave Guantanamo, did you believe?

1:14:44

-

No, I didn't believe

1:14:48

that I will leave in Guantanamo, you know.

1:14:49

Man

Who told you, and how did,

1:14:52

can you describe the situation?

1:14:54

-

I think it was, it was the end of October

1:14:54

when Chris, my lawyer came into Yiguana camp

1:15:02

and that, because I refuse for my lawyer.

1:15:09

I didn't trust them anymore.

1:15:11

I couldn't trust them

1:15:14

because if you working on my case, okay, what is the result?

1:15:15

Even she has already said

1:15:19

I am innocent, not the enemy combatant.

1:15:21

And they said, "you will go out."

1:15:24

Okay, if so, why you couldn't do anything?

1:15:25

And he's walking.

1:15:31

It was really difficult to fight

1:15:32

against the state department

1:15:34

because, and he tried to explain the reason

1:15:36

and I couldn't believe,

1:15:41

they said "okay, you want a lawyer since that time."

1:15:42

"yes you didn't do anything."

1:15:46

And I said, okay, I refuse

1:15:48

because we had a phone conversation that time.

1:15:51

I told over the phone, okay, I refused.

1:15:55

You may not come to make me

1:15:57

no, no, my Jonathan Blackman was his boss,

1:15:59

his chief.

1:16:03

"Jonathan Black wants to talk to you."

1:16:04

I don't want to talk to him anymore.

1:16:06

And I hang up the phone.

1:16:08

And after 20 days, approximately after 20 days,

1:16:12

he came and the one sold soldier informed me

1:16:19

that's my lawyer wants to meet with me.

1:16:22

I said, who?

1:16:24

I have no lawyers.

1:16:25

You said, no, you have a lawyer.

1:16:27

That's a private lawyer wants to talk to you.

1:16:30

And he said, ah, I receive a package from my lawyer.

1:16:32

Laughter even I didn't open it.

1:16:37

And the soldier informed me that my lawyer wants to come

1:16:41

toward me, to talk.

1:16:44

And I refuse.

1:16:49

I said, I don't want to meet.

1:16:50

He said just, he has a very good news for you.

1:16:52

And that was interesting.

1:16:57

I said, okay, I want to make a try and afternoon he came

1:16:59

and then I was waiting

1:17:06

for me under the shade

1:17:08

Calls to reach, calls to see.

1:17:10

And he enter, said, "just tell me Zakir,

1:17:14

if I am still on the case or not?"

1:17:19

I said, it depend of your news.

1:17:22

Yeah. I got the letter

1:17:25

from government within 30 days you'll be released.

1:17:27

If so, you're on the case, that was my joke.

1:17:33

And we met each other

1:17:37

and that I spent a whole day together and I prepared food.

1:17:39

He'll laughed at food

1:17:46

because I cook very good foods, natural foods

1:17:48

and he was happy.

1:17:53

Then I think after 20 days I left.

1:17:55

Man

And when did you find out you would come to Albania?

1:18:01

When did you find out you were coming to Albania?

1:18:03

-

Oh, even in the end of summer, 2006, a delegation

1:18:06

from ICRC informed me that they are preparing us

1:18:14

to send to Albania.

1:18:19

I refuse actually to come

1:18:22

to Albania, I said, I'm going to wait here.

1:18:24

Even Bumgarner

1:18:27

come to ask me to be agreed with them.

1:18:28

I said no, I never been agree with you.

1:18:33

I never go to Albania because I heard from ICRC.

1:18:35

That's a five detainee is in difficult situation

1:18:39

if they couldn't find jobs.

1:18:43

They couldn't do anything

1:18:45

even they had some problems, medical problems

1:18:46

and that's a very poor country, a poor country.

1:18:50

And that was the reason.

1:18:55

And I tried to find out because I had a police station

1:18:57

and soccer, and there was some information about Albania

1:19:00

because what (indistinct) had Albanian soccer team.

1:19:06

And I tried to find some information

1:19:12

because we had no rights to watch TV.

1:19:13

I mean a regular teller station.

1:19:17

Though we had a DVD PlayStation TV?

1:19:20

We were isolated that time

1:19:26

and I tried to find some,

1:19:28

then I refused.

1:19:29

I was forced to come to Albania, that's all.

1:19:30

But I refused then

1:19:35

Bamgarner come to say, "okay, you cannot stay here

1:19:36

if you're innocent."

1:19:38

Okay, you guys brought me here.

1:19:39

You should have find some place

1:19:41

which I could fix my future.

1:19:44

Could I start my life?

1:19:46

"Yes."

1:19:47

That's old, that's my condition.

1:19:48

I am not going to leave to Albania.

1:19:50

No, you must, must, must.

1:19:53

Yeah, I was forced.

1:19:55

Man

And when you were sent here

1:19:57

did you know any of the weagers who were here?

1:19:59

You knew Abu Bakr.

1:20:02

Did you know anyone else?

1:20:03

-

We were together in camp

1:20:04

in Yiguana camp

1:20:07

Even they, you know

1:20:08

they select us together, all the NEC, enemy combatants.

1:20:10

Man

So you had a community when you came here?

1:20:16

-

Yes, we had, we had

1:20:19

even we saw each other before CSRT.

1:20:20

Just we were talking from distance,

1:20:26

we're greeting each other.

1:20:30

Man

I want to go back to the communication.

1:20:32

Did you ever, were you able to send notes?

1:20:33

Or any other ways to communicate

1:20:37

besides just screaming over to somebody?

1:20:39

-

No, no, no, no, nothing.

1:20:41

Oh, I may send picture because, not notes.

1:20:43

Man

You could send pictures?

1:20:48

-

I'd draw very well.

1:20:51

Man

You would draw (mumbles)

1:20:53

-

Yeah, I did.

1:20:54

And that picture was taking to my friend from Kazakhstan.

1:20:55

Man

So some guard took your picture and gave it to him?

1:21:04

-

Yeah, but that was just friendly.

1:21:07

If they knew they would punished him.

1:21:11

I was prohibited.

1:21:14

Man

So some guards were friendly to you?

1:21:15

-

Yeah, but they are afraid of getting punished.

1:21:17

You know

1:21:20

even when I was in Yiguana camp, one Spanish soldier come

1:21:22

but he was in good relation with me.

1:21:27

Man

A Spanish soldier?

1:21:31

-

Yeah, he was (mumbles)

1:21:32

His nationality was Spanish.

1:21:34

And he explained

1:21:36

in many things what's going on in Guantanamo.

1:21:38

And he said, "I know who you are.

1:21:43

"So because I am telling you," and he was punished

1:21:45

because he was treated us.

1:21:49

Man

Do you know how he was punished?

1:21:51

-

He was taken from that camp

1:21:52

because they will be sent another

1:21:54

camp when detainee makes more troubles.

1:21:57

Man

And so do you feel that some of the guards were nice

1:22:01

some of of the guards were just nice?

1:22:06

-

Just a little bit, yeah,

1:22:07

and I had a guard in there.

1:22:08

I think Roshan knows about what my guard,

1:22:11

than about my flower garden,

1:22:12

and yeah, I plant (mumbles)

1:22:15

Man

Could you tell how to plant your flower garden?

1:22:18

-

And one guy from Saudi Arabi,

1:22:20

his name was Siddiq.

1:22:23

She knows him.

1:22:25

And we decided to make a garden together.

1:22:27

And because, on Fridays we had that extra food

1:22:31

from Bazaar, extra food.

1:22:36

They brought from out extra than regular food.

1:22:38

And we get at least what we need.

1:22:42

For example, ice cream,

1:22:45

watermelon, melon, cantaloupe, (mumbles)

1:22:47

And I asked for watermelon

1:22:53

and I pick the seeds from watermelon.

1:22:55

I said, Siddiq, what do you think?

1:22:57

Can we be plant watermelon?

1:23:00

Just tried because climate was very good.

1:23:02

And I decided to try.

1:23:04

Man

which campus is this?

1:23:09

-

It was Yiguana, camp Yiguana.

1:23:10

We had a little bit more freedom than other camp.

1:23:13

Man

The guards like it?

1:23:17

-

Yeah, when I asked the commander

1:23:18

of the camp, he said, "we cannot give it to you,

1:23:19

"and there are special permission

1:23:22

from Washington from pentagon, from somewhere."

1:23:24

And they said, "okay, but give them plastic

1:23:27

you know, (indistinct) other things, plastic, not metallic.

1:23:30

And I said, okay, but when they give

1:23:35

I should give it back before evening

1:23:38

even those plastic instruments

1:23:41

and I asked for instruments and we grow.

1:23:42

And that we had more than 28 watermelons, like this size.

1:23:46

Yeah, and what happened,

1:23:50

second month, one of commander of that scamp

1:23:54

he was staff soldier.

1:23:59

Yeah, staff soldier.

1:24:01

And he entered with the machine

1:24:04

who works with art, and he entered into

1:24:06

and that he was taking by the video camera,

1:24:09

but interviewed, and he explained,

1:24:11

"we're working for detainees we're growing watermelons."

1:24:13

He was on the pictures of newspapers.

1:24:17

And I saw the picture that black surgeon was working in.

1:24:21

They announced us, they're working for detainees,

1:24:24

They're growing watermelon,

1:24:27

they are growing flowers for detainees.

1:24:28

That was my job, not him.

1:24:31

Oh, it was terrible.

1:24:34

And I need to tell my lawyer and I talk that time.

1:24:36

I try to make a phone conversation with the Chris.

1:24:40

And I said, okay, I want to talk (mumbles)

1:24:45

my kitchen last fall.

1:24:46

And they said, "what are you doing?

1:24:50

"What kind of, Zkir that's military newspaper.

1:24:52

"We cannot do anything."

1:24:55

They made whatever they want.

1:24:56

You know, they announced

1:24:59

that they are growing for us watermelon.

1:25:00

They're making flower garden.

1:25:02

Man

Did you ever eat any of your watermelons?

1:25:05

-

Oh, most of them, more than 28,

1:25:07

I said, because I count them and I grow (indistinct)

1:25:09

It was very sweet.

1:25:13

Man

Awesome?

1:25:15

-

Yeah.

Man

And you got to eat them too?

1:25:16

-

Yes, sure.

1:25:18

Man

Could you share them with the other?

1:25:18

-

Yeah, because they were afraid because,

1:25:20

with other detainees yes, sure,

1:25:22

because that time we left only four, we were four.

1:25:24

And even I fed soldiers.

1:25:28

They were afraid

1:25:31

because they were prohibited to any food offers

1:25:32

because they're afraid of get poisoned from us.

1:25:34

We were terrorists so we could do anything.

1:25:38

Man

So for how many years

1:25:44

were you able to grow the watermelons?

1:25:45

-

That was the beginning of the summer, 2006.

1:25:50

Man

Before you left?

1:25:55

-

Yeah, before I left and I made the try

1:25:56

but it gave results,

1:25:59

we had more than 20, callops, not so big

1:26:03

with which we had from Bazar, but it was very sweet.

1:26:07

Man

And did everyone know, did everyone know about that?

1:26:13

-

About?

1:26:17

Man

About what you were growing?

1:26:18

Did other detainees ever know?

1:26:19

-

Detainees, yeah

1:26:21

When I was the one,

1:26:22

when I went to hospital

1:26:26

and I complain about my teeth problems

1:26:28

and I saw there Abubakar, Uzbek not this one

1:26:30

other who is ready to release to Ireland.

1:26:35

And I explained him all situation.

1:26:39

He said, "yeah, I heard about your garden" (mumbles)

1:26:41

I said, that was excellent.

1:26:44

And he move on other detainees about my garden.

1:26:46

Man

Do you grow a garden here in Albania?

1:26:51

-

No, I have more time and no area.

1:26:53

Oh I could, but there is no place and no time.

1:26:56

Man

So what is your attitude about Guantanamo

1:27:03

and about America looking back, what is your attitude

1:27:06

about the country and the people?

1:27:10

Do you have any thoughts about the people since you

1:27:13

the different people you met and how America treated you?

1:27:18

Do you have any thoughts about that today?

1:27:22

-

You know, I cannot say all American people

1:27:25

are bad because I had, and I have good friends from America

1:27:30

and I saw many of them who were treated very badly with me

1:27:37

you know, even I cannot say about the Uzbek

1:27:43

the same things (mumbles)

1:27:45

because you know, country and all

1:27:46

the nation has its good side and the bad side.

1:27:50

And even they have now some of them like on my friends

1:27:54

not on like lawyers

1:28:00

even others still communicating with me as a friend

1:28:02

but they are my friend.

1:28:09

And one of them were very in bad situation.

1:28:10

That's America has done with us.

1:28:15

So on just treatment.

1:28:18

And even they were crying friend of us,

1:28:19

that their country has done something bad

1:28:23

which may give us some thoughts

1:28:27

really bad thoughts about US and both people from US.

1:28:30

Then I explained to them that this is,

1:28:32

that is not their fault.

1:28:38

If someone else has done something wrong

1:28:42

we cannot blame everyone.

1:28:45

Man

Did you say you have some friends

1:28:49

from the prison that you're still in touch with?

1:28:51

-

Except this people?

1:28:54

Man

I mean, since you left Guantanamo,

1:28:56

are you still friendly with some of the people,

1:28:58

you met in Guantanamo?

1:29:01

-

Do you mean from soldiers?

1:29:03

Man

No, with soldiers or any.

1:29:04

-

No, we couldn't exchange information.

1:29:06

Man

What about with other detainees?

1:29:10

Are you in touch with them?

1:29:13

-

Yeah, I spoke twice with the person from Kazakhstan

1:29:15

and his father explained me

1:29:21

because it was very dangerous that time, because you know

1:29:23

international calls will be monitored through satellite

1:29:26

or something like that.

1:29:31

Even I was warned that my all conversation

1:29:32

will be recorded monitored, and I never say anything.

1:29:35

And I stopped trying to get connected then.

1:29:40

I said, okay.

1:29:43

But I had a conversation after that.

1:29:46

Man

How has one timeout changed your life?

1:29:52

Is there anything positive that came from it?

1:29:54

-

Positive, I cannot say anything positive

1:29:57

about my life which I spent in Guantanamo,

1:29:59

everything negative.

1:30:04

Man

Could it have changed your life in a positive way?

1:30:05

-

Positive, no,

1:30:07

I cannot say any words of positive.

1:30:08

Man

Could you just say what

1:30:11

it changed your life negatively?

1:30:12

-

Yes, life negative, because I lost trust in people.

1:30:13

That's all.

1:30:20

Man

You lost trust

1:30:21

in people because, the way Americans treated you?

1:30:23

The lawyers treated you?

1:30:26

-

Yes, yes, not lawyers

1:30:26

because US government treated me unjustly, you know

1:30:32

Man

And before that you always believed

1:30:36

in people, you always felt people did the right thing?

1:30:39

-

Yes I did.

1:30:42

And now I lost

1:30:43

because you know, those medicine

1:30:47

even that time, didn't give any effect,

1:30:49

now they're giving effect, very bad effect

1:30:52

those mental pills

1:30:55

mental medication, you know.

1:30:57

Man

How are they giving you?

1:31:00

-

Because now my brain function is not like before

1:31:02

even I may feel it.

1:31:10

I feel it.

1:31:11

Man

Can you describe what the difference is?

1:31:13

-

Sometimes, you know (mumbles)

1:31:17

I could remember when I was

1:31:22

in a while, when I start thinking on something

1:31:25

that look like in dream, you know,

1:31:33

because those medicine makes that time.

1:31:35

Me, like in dream, as you are looking

1:31:37

at people, but even makes you so lazy

1:31:40

even you don't want think when you wear something

1:31:45

like in dream, but you get tired of it.

1:31:50

And even I am getting back

1:31:53

to that effect, which medicine I was given in that time.

1:31:55

It's a very bad effect

1:32:00

because I thought,

1:32:02

I think less the effect of those medicines.

1:32:03

Even the effects now to my study.

1:32:06

Man

When you first came to Albania

1:32:11

were those medicines affecting you?

1:32:13

-

No, I cut out those medicine,

1:32:15

when I left to Yiguana camp.

1:32:17

I said, I don't take this medicine anymore

1:32:20

because, and they said, "okay, you can not stop it."

1:32:24

They said, "then you should make those dose

1:32:27

"a little bit lower, and lower"

1:32:31

And now you miss that,

1:32:33

I said no, I am compared to healthy people

1:32:34

like you storing like that, I said, don't trash it.

1:32:37

Man

So how long did you take medicine

1:32:41

when in Guantanamo?

1:32:43

-

Longer than three years.

1:32:46

Man

Three years you took medication?

1:32:48

-

Yes.

1:32:49

Woman

Do you know what it was?

1:32:50

-

No, no one explained what kind of.

1:32:51

Man

And when did it stop?

1:32:54

What year did it stop?

1:32:55

-

When I stopped those medicine,

1:32:58

they picked me once, twice

1:33:00

and doctor came said, if you stop taking medicines

1:33:02

we will force you make injection.

1:33:06

Man

Did they continue then with injections?

1:33:09

-

Yeah, and they said, "if you stop taking this medicine

1:33:11

"we'll force make an injection."

1:33:16

Man

And so did you get injections throughout?

1:33:18

-

No, I said, if so I'll take them.

1:33:20

Then that time, doctor explained

1:33:25

you cannot stop it striking.

1:33:28

Yes, make a lower, lower, lower.

1:33:31

And I didn't complain because

1:33:34

after CSRT stop making any problems

1:33:35

because I was promised to leave to camp four.

1:33:40

And they said,

1:33:44

"if so, you should get yourself better than now.

1:33:45

"You are in trouble because you had

1:33:48

"bad back behind you

1:33:50

"because you pass on mental steps that you should prove it.

1:33:53

"You may go to camp four."

1:33:58

I said, I may start giving myself quite right now.

1:34:03

I meet whatever you want.

1:34:08

And my interrogator said, "if you keep yourself quiet,

1:34:14

"you will be there after two months."

1:34:19

He promised me

1:34:22

and what kind of a way I used to leave to camp four.

1:34:24

And his name was, I forgot his name.

1:34:29

And he told me, "I need information about everything.

1:34:35

"If you need, you may read in my files, in my case."

1:34:38

He said, "no other info.

1:34:42

"You need other information?

1:34:43

"Let me exchange."

1:34:44

Okay, I'll give you all the information

1:34:45

whatever you want, but I won't go to camp four.

1:34:47

"Have you been ever?"

1:34:50

Never, okay.

1:34:51

Okay, when I come from camp four, I answer your question.

1:34:52

What kind of, doesn't matter.

1:34:57

Okay, okay.

1:34:58

Then I left to camp four then come back.

1:35:01

I started repeating.

1:35:03

No, no, no.

1:35:04

Okay, what do you want, do you want, (mumbles)

1:35:05

You want to hear from me?

1:35:07

That's I am terrorists.

1:35:10

I am like that.

1:35:11

I am like that and I explain.

1:35:12

And he was so anger.

1:35:14

I said, okay, we will send those information

1:35:16

to state department and we'll wait for response.

1:35:19

Man

I'm sorry, are you saying that sometimes

1:35:25

you gave false information just to please them?

1:35:27

Is that what you're saying?

1:35:30

-

No, he told me he wants all the information

1:35:31

which you have given before

1:35:36

to repeat or he said, "I want to ask some questions."

1:35:38

What kind of question?

1:35:41

I have given all answer to your question.

1:35:43

You may check my case, my files, whatever you want.

1:35:44

No, I need the new something.

1:35:48

Okay, if you need the new something,

1:35:49

under condition, my exchanging.

1:35:52

How?

1:35:55

For next investigation or interrogation,

1:35:57

I will come from camp four.

1:36:00

Oh, how have you even ever been there?

1:36:02

Never, okay

1:36:05

Okay, and I was taken from count four after two weeks.

1:36:06

And he was so happy to just withdraw from phase

1:36:10

you know, in the, you see,

1:36:13

I said what, I sent you there.

1:36:15

Okay, okay, what do you need now?

1:36:17

And he has given the same questions.

1:36:20

He was taking the answer, the same.

1:36:23

He was so angry at me.

1:36:26

He said, "you're giving me"

1:36:28

okay, what did you expect?

1:36:29

You expect, no, I was wrong.

1:36:33

I was trained in some special camp.

1:36:35

I pass some special training, like Alqaeda?

1:36:38

I never say that because I didn't do anything.

1:36:41

He was anger.

1:36:45

You get what you want.

1:36:47

Man

So can you just explain to me again

1:36:51

about the medication you were on pills

1:36:54

for three years?

1:36:56

-

Different because we were like a rabbit under experiment.

1:36:58

We have some, you have the same proverb.

1:37:03

We have a proverb, like a rabbit under experiment.

1:37:07

Man

Right, a rat.

1:37:11

-

Yeah, a rat under experience.

1:37:12

And you know, when the doctor gives

1:37:15

to you this medicine, they come to ask you how

1:37:18

what kind of effect he has given to you?

1:37:21

He takes notes, everything, everything.

1:37:23

I never gave the right information.

1:37:24

Then I didn't want to help that doctor

1:37:28

to make more experiments about that in medicine.

1:37:31

I gave false information, everything

1:37:34

they got lost on some way.

1:37:36

Man

And then when you stop taking the medication,

1:37:38

then they gave you shots for a while after that,

1:37:42

or they didn't?

1:37:46

-

Actually some of them, were, no.

1:37:46

When I refuse taking those medicine,

1:37:49

they made it, they called doctor,

1:37:53

psychologist to come to make appointment.

1:37:55

And he explained me if I strictly stop this medicine

1:37:58

it may could give me bad effect.

1:38:04

Man

Right.

1:38:07

-

Then, they will be

1:38:07

forced me to take, to make an injection.

1:38:09

Man

Right.

1:38:13

-

Which they were making to another detainees

1:38:14

from that injection, they were losing their mind

1:38:17

because it was very bad injection.

1:38:21

I don't know what kind of.

1:38:22

Man

Right.

1:38:24

I saw many detainees

1:38:25

who has lost their mind front of me.

1:38:28

Man

So you continued.

1:38:32

I just want to make sure it's good.

1:38:33

You continue winding it down and then you stop.

1:38:36

-

Yes.

1:38:38

Man

And then the effects, came back later on.

1:38:40

-

Yeah, even I feel about the effect of those medicines.

1:38:43

Man

Okay, is there something else that

1:38:48

that I didn't ask you,

1:38:51

that maybe you want to talk about?

1:38:53

Or maybe what is say?

1:38:55

-

You know, what is offend me, when I asked for the justice

1:38:57

from commanders, not just from soldiers, from someone else.

1:39:04

they help all the unjust treatment never goes out

1:39:10

from Guantanamo, unjust treatment to people.

1:39:14

Even I think in America, even very bad and very,

1:39:18

the high terrorists had their own rights to keep silent

1:39:25

at least, but never, they use that right to Guantanamo.

1:39:29

But why?

1:39:35

Because that is not American area, not American land.

1:39:37

Someone else made me explanation, when I asked

1:39:43

for that, what they, I mean, they is a military people.

1:39:45

They didn't follow the law.

1:39:52

They didn't follow the rule.

1:39:54

If so, why they ask people to follow?

1:39:56

Even I was arguing with the special agent from CIA

1:39:59

why they have killed so many innocent people in Afghanistan.

1:40:03

That is military situation, you know, it's easy.

1:40:08

They killed many, many innocent people

1:40:13

with no reason, because we had information.

1:40:15

They were group of Taliban.

1:40:18

And we destroyed that village, more than 2000 people

1:40:19

on that time.

1:40:25

And when I argued,

1:40:26

and he was wondering how I did get that information

1:40:28

about that village, but I didn't say anything.

1:40:33

And I said, if you say,

1:40:36

when I ask why they're treating me very badly here.

1:40:37

And you know, we're now separating

1:40:42

and the clarifying who is who and the, you are between them.

1:40:44

We're forced to make the same treatment to you.

1:40:50

And we know, but you should be open with us.

1:40:54

And I explained, if some of them terrorist,

1:40:57

aren't you terrorist?

1:41:01

What do you mean, I am a terrorist?

1:41:02

I said, your government never get innocent people?

1:41:05

What do you meant?

1:41:08

And I explained the situation.

1:41:09

And you know, he was wondering how I got this information.

1:41:11

I said, you never killed innocent people?

1:41:15

And my government never kills.

1:41:19

And I explained the situation.

1:41:21

He couldn't make any explanation.

1:41:23

And I said, okay, and a terrorist, why you don't treat them

1:41:25

as a terrorist, even terrorist has their right.

1:41:31

Yes, even terrorist has it's rights.

1:41:35

Okay, so I can not answer.

1:41:38

Even that special agent from CIA

1:41:42

couldn't answer my question.

1:41:44

Man

How did you know he was a CIA agent?

1:41:46

-

He showed me, you know

1:41:48

like a card he has

1:41:52

and two persons were introduced themselves

1:41:55

during of capture in Guantanamo.

1:42:00

Two of them, one of them, he was one of them.

1:42:04

I don't remember.

1:42:08

He showed me his ID.

1:42:09

And you know, last time even I got tired answering

1:42:15

if they don't introduce themselves

1:42:21

because (mumbles)

1:42:23

covered by tape,

1:42:24

I said, okay, introduce yourself.

1:42:26

Even the president of CSRT hide his name.

1:42:28

I said, if you saw why you don't open?

1:42:34

Why you don't introduce yourself?

1:42:37

If you wants to make justice to be open, just be open.

1:42:39

Oh, this is military Bay.

1:42:45

We cannot be open.

1:42:49

You say you never afraid of making rule.

1:42:51

Okay, if you don't rule,

1:42:53

why you're afraid of me, why you're scared of me?

1:42:54

Why you covered your name?

1:42:58

That's the rule, he covered his rank.

1:43:01

He covered his name, everything.

1:43:03

And the one of those three got upset of it.

1:43:05

He said, "yes, (indistinct) you're right,

1:43:10

we treated some of them very badly and unjustly.

1:43:13

And he was angry at his government,

1:43:18

as his governmental was treated very badly with some people.

1:43:21

And he said, and that,

1:43:24

that affect him very badly.

1:43:26

Even I ask if you so follow the justice

1:43:28

why you don't be open some

1:43:31

okay, who you are?

1:43:32

He said, "I cannot introduce myself."

1:43:34

That's the military rule.

1:43:37

Man

What would you like from America today?

1:43:39

-

Sorry?

1:43:43

Man

Would you like America to do anything

1:43:44

today for you or for the people in Guantanamo?

1:43:46

-

To do, okay.

1:43:49

Last the general problems we were sent to Albania,

1:43:52

but US government made it on purpose,

1:43:57

not to get better out of life

1:44:01

because if we get better and we

1:44:03

may ask for rights and we may ask for

1:44:05

just unjust treatment we have seen.

1:44:09

And if so, US government destroyed my past and my future

1:44:13

I may say my future and my health.

1:44:19

Why he was government doesn't take that responsibility

1:44:23

to fix at least my future.

1:44:26

Not to just send to some country

1:44:29

where that person can get worse, why

1:44:32

Woman

What country would you like to go,

1:44:38

where would you like to go?

1:44:39

-

Except Albania, everywhere.

1:44:42

Man

Would you come to America, if they took you?

1:44:50

-

Like to be.

1:44:53

Man

Well, do you have anything else, otherwise?

1:44:56

-

If you dodn't have any questions, anyone.

1:45:00

Man

Well, thank you very much.

1:45:06

-

You're welcome, anytime.

1:45:08

Man

And it was a pleasure speaking to you in English.

1:45:09

(murmurs)

1:45:12

Woman

There's one question.

1:45:13

-

Please.

1:45:15

Man

Sure.

-

I wanna understand,

1:45:15

it seems that the, on the blocks people they organized,

1:45:17

like in terms of people (mumbles)

1:45:22

-

Which camp you're talking about?

1:45:24

Because they are completely different system,

1:45:26

completely different situation, condition,

1:45:28

one, two, three, four, five, six.

1:45:31

Woman

Okay, what I'm trying to understand

1:45:34

like where the certain people who took,

1:45:36

like helped other people learn languages

1:45:38

or helped organize the group

1:45:40

or organize hunger strikes,

1:45:42

or how did it work in terms of (mumbles)

1:45:44

-

It was just from the beginning of detention,

1:45:46

they tried to help Afghan people to learn English

1:45:48

learn (mumbles)

1:45:53

Woman

Who tried to help?

1:45:55

-

I don't know what kind of people

1:45:56

when I ask to learn English, they resist, you know why?

1:45:57

Because if I understood English,

1:46:02

I'm understand what they were reporting between them

1:46:06

and wrong information, because they didn't want

1:46:10

what was the conversation was between them.

1:46:13

Woman

So you learned Arabic just by listening

1:46:16

or did someone help you?

1:46:18

-

Just by listening,

1:46:18

Farsi, Arabic, just by listening

1:46:20

(murmurs)

1:46:21

Man

Okay, thank you so much.

1:46:31

-

You're welcome.

1:46:33

Woman

Thank you.

(murmurs)

1:46:33

Asam, Zakirjan - Interview master file

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