Habib, Maha - Interview master file
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Transcript
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Camera Man | We are rolling | 0:05 |
Interviewer 1 | Okay, good morning. | 0:06 |
- | Morning. | 0:08 |
Interviewer 1 | We are very grateful to you | 0:09 |
for participating in the Witness to Guantanamo project. | 0:10 | |
We invite you to speak of your experiences | 0:15 | |
and involvement with your husband. | 0:17 | |
Who was held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. | 0:20 | |
We are hoping to provide you an opportunity to | 0:22 | |
tell your story, in your own words. | 0:24 | |
We are creating an archive of stories. | 0:28 | |
So that people around the world will have | 0:30 | |
a better understanding of what you | 0:33 | |
and others have experienced. | 0:36 | |
Future generations must know what happened at Guantanamo. | 0:40 | |
And by telling this story, you contributing to history. | 0:43 | |
We appreciate your courage and willingness | 0:47 | |
to speak with us today. | 0:49 | |
And if any time during the interview, | 0:51 | |
you'd like to take a break. | 0:53 | |
Please let us know. | 0:54 | |
And if there's anything you'd like, | 0:56 | |
that you say you'd like us to remove, | 0:57 | |
we can remove it as well. | 0:59 | |
And we'd like to begin by having you introduce yourself, | 1:01 | |
with your name and your country of origin | 1:05 | |
and where you're living now. | 1:08 | |
You can start with that. | 1:11 | |
- | Yep, my name Maha Habib, the wife of Mamdouh Habib. | 1:11 |
I'm born in Lebanon but I lived all my life in Australia. | 1:16 | |
Been, I've studied in Australia and I had, | 1:21 | |
now I've got four children from Mamdouh, | 1:24 | |
Two boys and two girls. | 1:27 | |
And we live in Sidney's. | 1:29 | |
Interviewer 1 | And what's your religion | 1:30 |
and what languages do you speak? | 1:33 | |
- | I'm Muslim and I speak both language Arabic and English. | 1:35 |
Interviewer 1 | And can you tell us a little bit | 1:40 |
about the work you did or still doing or | 1:42 | |
- | Oh yeah, I finished my Year 12 | 1:46 |
and I've done some office work. | 1:48 | |
Worked with Immigration Department. | 1:51 | |
Worked with the Public Prosecution. | 1:53 | |
Worked with the gov, Police Department. | 1:55 | |
And helped my husband and his business. | 2:00 | |
And when he went overseas and came back, | 2:03 | |
I've done some community welfare. | 2:06 | |
I've done Certificate IV and I've done diploma. | 2:08 | |
And just two years ago, I've done private investigation. | 2:11 | |
It's quite interesting. | 2:17 | |
Interviewer 1 | Is that what you're doing now? | 2:19 |
- | Now I'm housewife. | 2:20 |
Fighting against so many different governments | 2:23 | |
and so many different department that are corrupted | 2:25 | |
to try to get justice. | 2:28 | |
Interviewer 1 | And can you tell us when you were born | 2:31 |
or how old you are? | 2:34 | |
- | Oh yeah, I was born on the 5th of February 2000, | 2:35 |
I mean 1964, not 2000. | 2:40 | |
Interviewer 1 | And today that makes you how old? | 2:44 |
- | 46 I think, must count. | 2:46 |
46 count 47, maybe. | 2:48 | |
Interviewer 1 | I guess I'd like to begin by having you | 2:52 |
tell us where you were when you first heard | 2:55 | |
that Habib was missing or maybe you can go | 2:59 | |
into that background and just explain that | 3:02 | |
- | Yeah, I was at home. | 3:03 |
It was on a Thursday, in the afternoon. | 3:04 | |
I had a phone call actually. | 3:08 | |
I was fasting and I had a phone call | 3:09 | |
from the Department of Foreign Affairs | 3:12 | |
and telling me a lady named Louis. | 3:14 | |
She said, "Are you aware that your husband has been | 3:16 | |
detained in Pakistan and he hasn't been charged as yet? | 3:20 | |
And he's receiving his medication." | 3:24 | |
That's all she said. | 3:26 | |
And I said, "What do you mean he's been detained?" | 3:27 | |
And she said, "I haven't got much information for you | 3:29 | |
but that's all I can let you know." | 3:33 | |
And I said, "I wanna to speak to him. | 3:35 | |
Is there any way I can speak to him?" | 3:37 | |
And she said, "I'll see what we can do about that." | 3:39 | |
Interviewer 1 | Who was she? | 3:42 |
Who she worked for? | 3:43 | |
- | She worked for the Department of Foreign Affairs | 3:44 |
in Canberra. | 3:46 | |
Interviewer 1 | Australia? | 3:47 |
- | In Australia, yes. | 3:48 |
Interviewer 1 | And did you have any idea | 3:49 |
that this might happen? | 3:52 | |
Did you? | 3:53 | |
- | No, it was actually after September 11th. | 3:53 |
I went there, I think over 20 days, 21 days, | 3:56 | |
I haven't heard from him. | 4:01 | |
And usually he calls twice or three times a day. | 4:03 | |
I mean a week, just to let us know how things. | 4:06 | |
And I was really worried when September 11 happened. | 4:09 | |
He hasn't called. | 4:13 | |
And so, and receiving that call | 4:14 | |
from the Department of Foreign Affairs. | 4:16 | |
Interviewer 1 | Do you know what date? | 4:18 |
- | it made me really worry. | 4:19 |
Yes, it was the 17, | 4:20 | |
it was on a Thursday. | 4:26 | |
I think it was the 17th of October. | 4:28 | |
Yeah, 17th of October, 2001. | 4:34 | |
Interviewer 1 | And so what did you do next, | 4:37 |
after you got that phone call? | 4:38 | |
- | This is where it all started actually in. | 4:42 |
I want to find out and see what can be done. | 4:44 | |
And I've spoken to a friend of mine. | 4:46 | |
And, but after three days | 4:50 | |
on the 20th of September, | 4:53 | |
no, that was October. | 4:56 | |
I'm talking about, hold on. | 4:58 | |
I'm a bit confused now, hold on. | 4:59 | |
I know 20th of September. | 5:01 | |
when did they come to my house? | 5:05 | |
I'm wrong. | 5:07 | |
I think I'm wrong with days. | 5:08 | |
Interviewer 1 | Okay. | 5:10 |
- | On the 20, I know the 20th, they came to my house | 5:11 |
and raided our house. | 5:14 | |
I had my younger daughter who was just one year old. | 5:16 | |
She turned in July and I've got my other daughter. | 5:20 | |
And my two boys, Mariam was seven I. | 5:24 | |
She was seven years old. | 5:29 | |
Ahmed was 12 and Mustapha was 10, 9. | 5:30 | |
Interviewer 1 | And what does that mean? | 5:37 |
They raided your house, what happened? | 5:38 | |
- | They came into our house and looked. | 5:40 |
They said they have a, like I was coming from school | 5:43 | |
and bringing my daughter from school. | 5:46 | |
As I entered the driveway, | 5:47 | |
I saw three men came up to me | 5:51 | |
and on each side of the car and they said, | 5:55 | |
"Could you just leave your car here? | 5:58 | |
We've got a warrant to search your house." | 6:02 | |
I was shocked. | 6:04 | |
I didn't know what, I wasn't expecting it at all, you know? | 6:05 | |
And he told me to just park it here. | 6:08 | |
So, they had the driveway's quite all the way up. | 6:09 | |
I just ignored it and went all the way up, | 6:13 | |
where I parked normally. | 6:14 | |
They followed me all the way. | 6:16 | |
There were about. | 6:18 | |
First I saw three men and then there were about 16 people, | 6:19 | |
all of them, men and women. | 6:23 | |
All in suits and they followed me up. | 6:25 | |
They showed us, I said show me the warrant. | 6:29 | |
So I looked at the warrant and to be honest | 6:31 | |
because I was shocked and I was surprised | 6:33 | |
and I was, you know, I wasn't with that. | 6:35 | |
So I tried to read it. | 6:36 | |
I couldn't get, you know, understand what I was reading. | 6:38 | |
I said, oh, I'll take a copy. | 6:40 | |
A copy of it because I've got a photocopier inside. | 6:42 | |
They said, he said, yeah, all right, we'll give it to you. | 6:44 | |
So I went inside, like, | 6:47 | |
I've taken the baby out from her baby capsule, | 6:49 | |
went inside the house. | 6:52 | |
And then I told him wait here. | 6:54 | |
He said, no, we have to come with you. | 6:55 | |
I said, no, I'll go and photo the photocopy it first. | 6:56 | |
So they follow, they still followed me. | 6:59 | |
I went inside to my room, photocopied it, | 7:01 | |
left the copy wait in the photocopier | 7:05 | |
and gave him the actual original one. | 7:07 | |
And I said, and they said, we have to sit down. | 7:10 | |
I mean, we have to search the house. | 7:12 | |
And we went to like, every one of us, my kids and myself | 7:14 | |
they had to have someone with us. | 7:20 | |
And believe it or not, I was fasting on that day too. | 7:23 | |
You know? | 7:26 | |
And we couldn't break fast. | 7:26 | |
They started, they took about seven hours. | 7:28 | |
Right in the house, going from room to room. | 7:30 | |
And during the raid, my son, | 7:33 | |
my oldest son, Ahmed came up to me and he told me, | 7:36 | |
he said, "Mama, I don't want you to get angry. | 7:39 | |
But I saw the guy taking the photocopier." | 7:42 | |
And then I went to the photocopier. | 7:47 | |
I couldn't find it. | 7:50 | |
I got really upset and cranky. | 7:51 | |
I said, "Get out of my house, | 7:53 | |
all of you, you tricked me. | 7:54 | |
And you said, you're going to keep | 7:55 | |
I can keep a copy." | 7:58 | |
and he said, "Get up." | 7:59 | |
There was only one more in my daughter's room, | 8:01 | |
that to be searched. | 8:02 | |
And like, they took control of the house, the whole thing, | 8:03 | |
the kitchen, everything. | 8:07 | |
So they went outside. | 8:09 | |
He said, "I'll make some phone calls." | 8:11 | |
He went inside, outside, made some phone calls | 8:12 | |
and came back. | 8:14 | |
So I took the photocopy and put it inside my bag. | 8:16 | |
I said, "No way, he's gonna touch it." | 8:20 | |
So he continued. | 8:22 | |
And then my son noticed again, he actually opened my bag | 8:23 | |
and took the photocopier, | 8:27 | |
the copy. | 8:32 | |
And then I went angry again, but there's no use. | 8:33 | |
And I was, you know, really, | 8:36 | |
it was an incredible time, unex, | 8:38 | |
very, very difficult experience. | 8:43 | |
I don't know how I managed | 8:46 | |
but God was watching all over us. | 8:47 | |
And my daughter was holding. | 8:50 | |
I was holding my daughter all the time | 8:51 | |
and I needed to breastfeed. | 8:53 | |
I couldn't breastfeed. | 8:54 | |
She had someone had to be with me. | 8:55 | |
And to go the toilet, you need someone to be around. | 8:57 | |
It was really disgusting. | 8:59 | |
They even disconnected the phone. | 9:01 | |
I couldn't call no one. | 9:02 | |
They took all of our mobile phone. | 9:03 | |
They took all my phone. | 9:05 | |
Boom, a book, you know, | 9:09 | |
the book where you have all your phone, | 9:10 | |
for your family or anybody friends. | 9:13 | |
So after they left, they like, | 9:16 | |
they put everything in bags and tags and number them, | 9:18 | |
and at the end they gave me a list, said, | 9:22 | |
this is what sign, | 9:23 | |
where they got this, and this. | 9:25 | |
And they want me to sign some, | 9:27 | |
I'm no sign for anything | 9:28 | |
because I'm not allowing you to take it. | 9:29 | |
So they said, "All right." | 9:30 | |
So when are you going to return it? | 9:32 | |
They said, "Ah, soon we will return it soon." | 9:33 | |
So what's your number? | 9:36 | |
His name is Bob. | 9:37 | |
And so what's your phone number, if I want to contact you? | 9:38 | |
Said, all you're found in yellow pages. | 9:40 | |
Honest to God, that's what they said. | 9:43 | |
And then they took off and they took out | 9:44 | |
and Hajer was one year, exactly. | 9:48 | |
She turned when Mamdouh left, | 9:52 | |
he left on the 29th of July. | 9:55 | |
I think it was 2001. | 9:57 | |
She turned one year, on the 19th of July 2001. | 10:00 | |
She turned one year. | 10:04 | |
Interviewer 1 | And what did you tell the children? | 10:06 |
Why this was happening? | 10:08 | |
I'm sure. | 10:10 | |
- | I didn't know what to tell them. | 10:11 |
It passed one week. | 10:11 | |
I couldn't go out of the house. | 10:13 | |
I couldn't speak to anybody. | 10:15 | |
My two daughters were sleeping with me, in the same room. | 10:17 | |
Interviewer 1 | Why couldn't you speak to anybody? | 10:20 |
- | I don't know, I was in, maybe I was in shock | 10:21 |
or I was scared. | 10:24 | |
And I said, why did that happen to me? | 10:25 | |
And it, September 11 already happened and all things. | 10:28 | |
Then I had a phone call from Mamdouh actually. | 10:32 | |
And I was really worried. | 10:34 | |
And I was really, really upset, you know. | 10:36 | |
I've never felt the same way. | 10:39 | |
And he told me, he made some sense into my head | 10:40 | |
and he said, "Put it this way. Have we done anything wrong?" | 10:43 | |
I said, "No." | 10:45 | |
He said, "Why you're worried about then." | 10:46 | |
Speak to the media, speak to the families, | 10:48 | |
speak to anybody, just go out and spread it out. | 10:50 | |
And it made sense to me after seven days. | 10:53 | |
I went to my doctor. | 10:56 | |
I said, and don't like to cry in front of anybody. | 10:56 | |
But I did cry front my doctor for the first time. | 11:01 | |
And I was really. | 11:03 | |
Anyway I wasn't good. | 11:07 | |
So, she just advised me to speak to someone on the phone. | 11:08 | |
Where they can give you some help. | 11:11 | |
So I don't trust no one. | 11:13 | |
I can't speak to anybody. | 11:14 | |
And I started, speaking of, | 11:15 | |
I've heard other families whose been raided. | 11:18 | |
So I wasn't the only one. | 11:21 | |
I sort of had a bit relief on that. | 11:23 | |
So it's not, I was the odd | 11:24 | |
and they were getting some lawyer. | 11:27 | |
His name is Steven Hopper. | 11:30 | |
Who's actually was assisting those people. | 11:31 | |
He wants to take them to court, | 11:33 | |
take the matter to court. | 11:34 | |
And I've met him where I was. | 11:36 | |
He came to my children's training. | 11:39 | |
They do Taekwondo. | 11:42 | |
And he took the matter and he, | 11:44 | |
this the way we all started. | 11:46 | |
And then I received a call about Mamdouh had been | 11:48 | |
from the defect, yeah, that's right now. | 11:52 | |
20th of September when they raided my house | 11:54 | |
and afterwards, after a week or so. | 11:57 | |
He spoken to me and he made me pick, | 12:01 | |
he actually, he charged me up and he put, | 12:05 | |
he made some, he put some power into me | 12:07 | |
and he told me what to do. | 12:09 | |
So, and I felt, his advice really good. | 12:10 | |
And then on the 20th of, | 12:14 | |
17th of October. | 12:18 | |
This is when Louis has actually contacted me | 12:20 | |
from the Department of Foreign Affairs. | 12:22 | |
Interviewer 1 | Where was Mamdouh calling you from? | 12:23 |
- | I don't know, he never mentioned. | 12:26 |
I think it was, I don't know. | 12:28 | |
Interviewer 1 | And do you know, was he being restrained | 12:31 |
at that time? | 12:33 | |
Was he, | 12:34 | |
- | No, no, he wasn't. | 12:35 |
But when after the raid, | 12:35 | |
because they said, "Where's your husband." | 12:39 | |
I said, "You know, where my husband has gone overseas." | 12:41 | |
And I had nothing to hide, you know, | 12:43 | |
We went doing the right and he, | 12:45 | |
David, he was explaining, talking to me. | 12:47 | |
And then he said, "Where was your husband?" | 12:49 | |
I said, "I don't know where my husband, he's gone | 12:54 | |
to Pakistan for a business." | 12:56 | |
And he was acting smart. | 12:59 | |
So that's it, I don't know. | 13:01 | |
Interviewer 1 | And you felt better | 13:05 |
about the safety of your husband then too, | 13:06 | |
after the phone calls? | 13:09 | |
- | Yeah, and he when called me again, | 13:10 |
I told him, "Who were you?" | 13:11 | |
And he said, "I'm your husband Maha." | 13:15 | |
And I knew it was him. | 13:17 | |
I just, I told him, "If you see Mamdouh, | 13:19 | |
tell him that they're trying to follow to grab him | 13:23 | |
with something and frame with something." | 13:28 | |
They've took a lot of stuff from our house. | 13:30 | |
And I don't know what they took. | 13:32 | |
The passports, passbooks, texts, documents, | 13:33 | |
and, you know, lots of things, | 13:37 | |
that you wouldn't believe that they would have take. | 13:39 | |
They've taken so much, even my laptop. | 13:41 | |
not that I have anything to hide, | 13:44 | |
but all our privacy has gone out, you know, | 13:45 | |
and he told me, then I hang up. | 13:50 | |
Then he called again. | 13:52 | |
He said, "You silly? | 13:53 | |
I don't know, just don't, you know, don't be upset. | 13:54 | |
Don't be like that, I'm your husband." | 13:57 | |
And he tried to make sense, more sense to me, so. | 13:58 | |
Interviewer 1 | Who were the other families | 14:02 |
who was also raided? | 14:03 | |
- | I don't know. | 14:05 |
There was some Indonesian people from school I know. | 14:05 | |
(indistinct). | 14:10 | |
I dunno. | 14:11 | |
I've heard it on the news. | 14:12 | |
There were so many different families. | 14:13 | |
Interviewer 1 | Do you speak to your own family | 14:16 |
after those seven days? | 14:17 | |
Could you speak to | 14:19 | |
- | I didn't speak to my family, | 14:19 |
but I spoke to, first people I spoke to was my doctor. | 14:20 | |
She was quite supportive. | 14:24 | |
And then I, spoke to Steven Hopper, the lawyer, | 14:27 | |
and he encouraged me a lot. | 14:31 | |
He'd done a really good media strategy. | 14:33 | |
Where we brought Mamdouh's case into the public. | 14:37 | |
And it needed publicity. | 14:42 | |
Interviewer 1 | At that time had Mamdouh | 14:44 |
been transferred to Egypt? | 14:46 | |
- | Yes, he disappeared for six month. | 14:49 |
We weren't so sure what happened to him. | 14:53 | |
I couldn't, because I received the letter, | 14:56 | |
first letter not a letter, it's like a card from Red Cross. | 14:58 | |
And he, I should've brought it with you and showed you. | 15:02 | |
It says just few things. | 15:05 | |
It wasn't written his hand. | 15:08 | |
It was written on his behalf. | 15:09 | |
I've been, I can't remember the exact word | 15:11 | |
but I've been interviewed and they take me. | 15:13 | |
And the consulate | 15:16 | |
in Pakistan has promised me | 15:17 | |
that he's gonna send me, what kind of, | 15:22 | |
but you know, something like this, | 15:25 | |
but he said that he met with the Australian Consulate. | 15:26 | |
And that he's going to assist him, or I think it was. | 15:30 | |
I don't want to quote it wrong. | 15:35 | |
So I'm not sure. | 15:36 | |
Interviewer 1 | Was this sent from Egypt, this card? | 15:37 |
- | No, it was from Pakistan when they met him in Pakistan. | 15:40 |
Interviewer 1 | So when he was sent to Egypt. | 15:45 |
Did you know? | 15:47 | |
- | We've heard news from the media | 15:48 |
that he's been sent to Egypt | 15:50 | |
and I've heard so much things | 15:52 | |
about what happens in secret jails in Egypt. | 15:54 | |
I made some phone calls to his parents | 15:57 | |
but not to make it so obvious. | 16:00 | |
They never mentioned that he's there, you know. | 16:02 | |
And they didn't know that he was there too, | 16:05 | |
and I didn't want to make them worry. | 16:07 | |
But when he went to Guantan, | 16:09 | |
yeah, the Guantanamo Bay the news came out, | 16:12 | |
they said, oh, Egypt admitted | 16:15 | |
they have the Australian guy, Mamdouh Habib. | 16:17 | |
And now he's been handed to the American | 16:20 | |
where they took him to Afghanistan. | 16:22 | |
And for few days, I think about 21 days, | 16:25 | |
they transferred him to Guantanamo Bay. | 16:29 | |
Interviewer 1 | So, I just want to confirm. | 16:31 |
So for the whole time that Mamdouh is in Egypt, | 16:33 | |
you didn't know? | 16:35 | |
- | I didn't know, no. | 16:37 |
Interviewer 1 | And what did you think where he was, | 16:37 |
and what were you thinking during that time? | 16:39 | |
- | Usually people as part of a human being, | 16:41 |
you think the worst, | 16:44 | |
and I was thinking a lot of worse things | 16:45 | |
and I was thinking about, you know. | 16:47 | |
Looking up what sort of torture they said, | 16:48 | |
when you go to Egypt, secretly, you know, | 16:52 | |
and it was a word. | 16:54 | |
Interviewer 1 | Did you try to contact him | 16:57 |
through the Red Cross during those six months. | 16:59 | |
- | No, the Red Cross, no. | 17:01 |
They didn't send anything to me until. | 17:02 | |
Interviewer 1 | He came. | 17:08 |
- | Yeah, no, no, no, no. | 17:09 |
Until I think the first card came was, oh no. | 17:11 | |
We're talking about seven years ago. | 17:16 | |
No more than that. | 17:19 | |
What am I talking about? | 17:20 | |
More than 11 years ago? | 17:20 | |
I think the first card came when he was released | 17:24 | |
to the American and the Red Cross. | 17:27 | |
But it was mentioned that he's seen | 17:30 | |
the Pakistani Consul, the Australian Consulate | 17:32 | |
before he they took him to Egypt. | 17:36 | |
Interviewer 1 | So did you try to contact | 17:39 |
the Australian government as to what was going on? | 17:40 | |
- | Yeah, they were on contact with me all the time. | 17:43 |
Interviewer 1 | Did they take | 17:45 |
- | And they send me letters. | 17:46 |
They saying, they send me a cable where they said, | 17:47 | |
we believe your husband been detained in Pakistan. | 17:50 | |
And now being released to the Egyptian under their request. | 17:54 | |
I've got letter to proof that. | 17:58 | |
Interviewer 1 | And what did you say to that? | 18:00 |
Did you ask him? | 18:01 | |
- | I've sent so many letters to protest on that | 18:03 |
and the lawyer was protesting. | 18:05 | |
And then we were speaking to the media | 18:07 | |
and we had a very good media coverage about this. | 18:08 | |
And anything comes what I've found out too, | 18:12 | |
that really disturbed me after he came back. | 18:15 | |
I had all the letters that I have sent copy | 18:17 | |
of what I've sent him and copy what I have received. | 18:19 | |
He told me I've never sent you any letters. | 18:22 | |
I was speaking to someone | 18:25 | |
and like what I've been replying to | 18:27 | |
I was thinking that was him. | 18:29 | |
And it sounds like his language, | 18:31 | |
the way he speaks and the way he writes. | 18:33 | |
But he told me I've never done this. | 18:35 | |
I've never sent you those letters. | 18:37 | |
Interviewer 1 | Is this what you mean? | 18:38 |
When he was in Guantanamo too? | 18:40 | |
- | Yeah yeah, in Guantanamo Bay. | 18:41 |
The first thing that we received from him, | 18:43 | |
actually him writing was a letter from Guantanamo Bay. | 18:45 | |
It was brought by the official, | 18:48 | |
when they met him they said, | 18:51 | |
and he said, "I've never written." | 18:53 | |
He did read from letters from me | 18:56 | |
but he didn't wanna believe it. | 18:59 | |
Why, because he's seen us in Egypt on the | 19:00 | |
when he was in torture, | 19:03 | |
it's given him some, he was on some, | 19:04 | |
so many different type of drugs. | 19:07 | |
And they, he was made | 19:09 | |
believe that his family | 19:13 | |
has been blown up and been raped and been. | 19:14 | |
Up until now, he hasn't actually told me the actual movie | 19:17 | |
that he has shown, seen us, but he only knows. | 19:21 | |
And he believed himself that we were dead. | 19:24 | |
Interviewer 1 | Did you think you'd ever see | 19:28 |
your husband again? | 19:30 | |
- | I had faith in God. | 19:32 |
I believe that whatever was happening | 19:33 | |
it's all a test for me, for my kids. | 19:39 | |
And for whoever found out about us | 19:43 | |
and tests for him, for sure. | 19:45 | |
I think we've been, it's a big test and God, | 19:47 | |
you see, you need to believe that | 19:51 | |
God never gives you more | 19:53 | |
than what you can take, honestly yeah. | 19:56 | |
So I think God is testing us on how much we can take. | 20:00 | |
Interviewer 1 | And did you have conversations | 20:04 |
with your children during that time? | 20:06 | |
- | Actually my younger daughter, Mariam, | 20:08 |
she used to be my shadow, | 20:11 | |
not the baby one, not Hajer. | 20:13 | |
She was always in the media Hajer. | 20:15 | |
She was the main figure that people look at her. | 20:18 | |
She looks so, you've probably seen photos of her, | 20:21 | |
in orange protesting, her father's behalf. | 20:24 | |
But Mariam she's, I think, | 20:27 | |
she's become more mature than faster than her age. | 20:29 | |
Actually, all of them did except, | 20:35 | |
like the older one, he was taking more responsibility. | 20:37 | |
He thinks he was the man of the house | 20:40 | |
but he had his way, everybody has different way of dealing | 20:45 | |
with the situation. | 20:48 | |
Where Ahmed the oldest one, | 20:50 | |
he pretended to be the man of the house | 20:52 | |
and try to do things. | 20:57 | |
And he did find few works | 20:58 | |
and he did work, did some work | 21:00 | |
but at the same time, | 21:02 | |
this really hurts my husband too. | 21:05 | |
But he found out about it | 21:06 | |
that he goes out and play, you know, | 21:08 | |
music and keep himself away from thinking. | 21:12 | |
I think that's how he deal with it. | 21:16 | |
And Mamdouh reckons, you know, in our suffering, | 21:18 | |
and he was having fun, | 21:21 | |
but he doesn't really | 21:23 | |
he wasn't really having fun. | 21:24 | |
He was just trying to block away, what he | 21:26 | |
what situation or responsibility he had. | 21:30 | |
But Mamdouh won't accept that. | 21:32 | |
but where the youngest one, | 21:33 | |
he's giving me more trouble | 21:36 | |
because he sort of | 21:37 | |
used to stay up so late. | 21:43 | |
He had his first girlfriend, which we don't. | 21:45 | |
We shouldn't have girlfriend, but he sort of, | 21:49 | |
I don't know, he dealt with different things | 21:55 | |
and he, it went really effected him more. | 21:57 | |
He wasn't as strong as his brother. | 21:59 | |
And he had to see in a psychologist and he went through | 22:01 | |
and he had some issues with the police | 22:05 | |
because he was underage. | 22:07 | |
Anyhow, because some older friend who take, | 22:09 | |
has taken him with them and got him into trouble. | 22:13 | |
And his older brother had to get involved, | 22:17 | |
where he got into trouble for looking after his brother | 22:20 | |
and everything was sorted out. | 22:23 | |
It was just kids underage, yeah. | 22:25 | |
And the younger, Mariam. | 22:27 | |
She was actually all the time with me. | 22:30 | |
She sort of learned so much from what I've been. | 22:32 | |
She was really outspoken like me now, | 22:35 | |
I was very quiet before, | 22:37 | |
but I had not choice had to be a father and a mother. | 22:39 | |
And I had to it's hard to be a father, you know, | 22:42 | |
but God helps. | 22:47 | |
And she, yeah, she used to even her teacher at school | 22:49 | |
and she told me she's really strong girl, you know. | 22:52 | |
Because she knows how to get her rights. | 22:54 | |
And I didn't see that. | 22:56 | |
But she said that. | 22:57 | |
Interviewer 1 | Would she listened to you? | 22:59 |
Have conversations with | 23:01 | |
- | Yeah, even my oldest son at night, | 23:02 |
when I sent Hajer to sleep and everybody goes to sleep. | 23:04 | |
He comes and sit down and talk to me. | 23:08 | |
And he used to open up so much to me into | 23:10 | |
but actually I actually, kids | 23:14 | |
what more can you say, yeah. | 23:17 | |
They've got their way of dealing with different situation. | 23:19 | |
Interviewer 1 | So you saw yourself change. | 23:24 |
Now really did the children change, but you changed too. | 23:27 | |
- | You should see me when I first got married to Mamdouh. | 23:30 |
I was so quiet, very shy. | 23:32 | |
If you talk to me, my face goes all red, blushed. | 23:35 | |
He actually, I give him the credit. | 23:38 | |
He hates actually, put some self-esteem into myself, | 23:40 | |
into me. | 23:45 | |
And he encouraged me to work into office work. | 23:45 | |
He'd done. | 23:48 | |
He taught me a lot, he did. | 23:49 | |
Interviewer 1 | And were you working during this time | 23:54 |
or how did you support the family? | 23:56 | |
- | They put me on single parent's pensioner, | 23:58 |
and I hated that | 24:02 | |
because I wasn't old enough to be pension | 24:04 | |
or I wasn't, I didn't want it to be on a pension. | 24:08 | |
But there's no other choice. | 24:11 | |
During that time when I was protesting | 24:13 | |
and speaking out and talking with Steven Hopper | 24:16 | |
with the media, and I thought, okay. | 24:19 | |
I had that some experience of speaking out, | 24:21 | |
why not have it on as a qualification? | 24:25 | |
So I decided to go back to studies, | 24:27 | |
while I was, like my daughter went to the schools. | 24:30 | |
All my kids went to school. | 24:34 | |
With the younger one, she used to come with me to TAFE. | 24:36 | |
And I used to, I've done Community Welfare. | 24:39 | |
I've done it for two years. | 24:43 | |
And then when he came back, | 24:46 | |
I was enrolled for the diploma | 24:48 | |
and he told me to continue. | 24:52 | |
- | Yeah, but you should hear the news. | 24:54 |
When we first heard the news | 24:55 | |
that he was going to be released. | 24:57 | |
I was in, at the house and someone | 24:59 | |
from the Department of Federal Office | 25:03 | |
called me and he said, there has been an announcement | 25:04 | |
that your husband's gonna be released. | 25:07 | |
I was standing up say, | 25:09 | |
hold on, I sat down. | 25:10 | |
And I said, could you tell me that again? | 25:11 | |
What did you just say? | 25:13 | |
I couldn't believe it, you know? | 25:14 | |
And then he told me they's gonna be released, | 25:16 | |
said when he said. | 25:18 | |
We don't have the exact date until they fix every, | 25:20 | |
all the paperwork and all this. | 25:22 | |
And as soon as I heard that I hangup, | 25:24 | |
called my son. | 25:26 | |
I called him and I told him the news | 25:28 | |
they told me your dad's coming | 25:30 | |
and they're gonna be, he's gonna be released. | 25:32 | |
He was driving, believe it or not. | 25:33 | |
His friends told me he stopped in the middle of the street. | 25:35 | |
And he had done shahada, you know what shahada is? | 25:38 | |
You know, when you go down, you know, | 25:41 | |
Interviewer 1 | Pray. | 25:45 |
- | Pray, yeah. | 25:46 |
When you pray and bow. | 25:46 | |
He'd done this right in the middle of the street. | 25:48 | |
He did so I couldn't believe it. | 25:51 | |
And guess what date he came? | 25:52 | |
On my daughter's birthday, his favorite daughter, | 25:54 | |
because none of the boys were allowed to touch her. | 25:58 | |
You know, she was his boss. | 26:00 | |
Used to call her Marihuma, so. | 26:02 | |
Interviewer 1 | I wanna go more about that. | 26:05 |
But just going back, how did you feel about the media | 26:06 | |
were they, how did they treat you? | 26:10 | |
- | They were really good. | 26:12 |
Media was good in the beginning. | 26:14 | |
The only really bad one was The Telegraph. | 26:16 | |
They wanted to twist things. | 26:20 | |
But some of the article, when they interviewed me. | 26:22 | |
They were all right, you know. | 26:26 | |
But I think that's the habit of, | 26:28 | |
The Telegraph is the government newspaper. | 26:30 | |
Yeah, and they twist everything. | 26:34 | |
So I was very caution how to speak with The Telegraph. | 26:36 | |
But the Australian, other newspapers, the channel, | 26:39 | |
all the channels, they were all right. | 26:42 | |
They were really good. | 26:43 | |
Interviewer 1 | Did you ever get any hate mail or, | 26:45 |
- | No. | 26:47 |
Interviewer 1 | No one ever? | 26:48 |
- | No, only once when first September 11 happened, | 26:50 |
I was going. | 26:54 | |
My mom was in hospital. | 26:55 | |
She broke her hip and she had to had a hip replacement. | 26:57 | |
And I was pushing my younger daughter, | 27:01 | |
Hajer pram and Mariam on the side. | 27:04 | |
And for no reason, someone chucked an egg | 27:07 | |
and he said, "You're bloody terrorists." | 27:11 | |
And I just, it hurts you, | 27:12 | |
but some people are sick. | 27:16 | |
They just, they need some treatment and just ignore it. | 27:18 | |
And I continued. | 27:22 | |
Interviewer 1 | And during the time that Mamdouh was away, | 27:24 |
no one called you the wife of a alleged terrorists. | 27:27 | |
- | No, actually, while he was away, I had a lot of people. | 27:30 |
To be honest, I was paying rent 240 a week. | 27:35 | |
I used to worry on how I'm gonna pay it. | 27:39 | |
And I was just on a single parent | 27:42 | |
but believe me or not, | 27:44 | |
we were coping. | 27:48 | |
How, I don't know, we were just coping. | 27:50 | |
God was watching all over us. | 27:52 | |
And even I had, I a letter sent from someone | 27:54 | |
who is in jail, all right. | 27:59 | |
Send it through my lawyer. | 28:02 | |
He an envelope and I, he gave me the envelope. | 28:03 | |
It had $1,000 in it. | 28:07 | |
And this went on for seven months. | 28:09 | |
Interviewer 1 | Each month? | 28:13 |
- | Each month $1,000 was sent to me, by this person. | 28:14 |
Interviewer 1 | Do you know who it was? | 28:18 |
- | No. | 28:19 |
Interviewer 1 | Did you never met the person? | 28:20 |
- | No. | 28:21 |
Interviewer 1 | And were your neighbors, did they ever say | 28:23 |
anything to you or how did? | 28:27 | |
- | No, anyone sees me in the street and they said, | 28:28 |
"How's your husband, any news about your husband?" | 28:31 | |
You know, always them carrying Hajer with me. | 28:34 | |
She's well-known everybody talks to her too. | 28:37 | |
And she always posted the photos | 28:40 | |
and she was really good attention seeker. | 28:42 | |
Interviewer 1 | And when Mamdouh came back from Egypt, | 28:46 |
that's you heard that news again from the media. | 28:50 | |
- | This is when the media actually picked up on us. | 28:52 |
When Egypt has actually announced | 28:55 | |
that they've released. | 28:58 | |
They had an Australian guy been released | 29:01 | |
and handed to the Egyptian, | 29:04 | |
I mean, to the American and was sent to, | 29:05 | |
Afghanistan. | 29:10 | |
Interviewer 1 | Afghanistan. | |
- | And this when the media started coming. | 29:11 |
And the lawyer, told me to be careful how to speak to. | 29:13 | |
Because I've never had an experience of speaking to. | 29:16 | |
You have to be careful what to say | 29:19 | |
to the media sometimes, you know. | 29:20 | |
And he, they said, | 29:22 | |
I do you think your husband's gonna go to Guantanamo? | 29:26 | |
said, no, I was so confident. | 29:28 | |
No, why he hasn't done anything? | 29:29 | |
Why would he go to Guantanamo Bay? | 29:31 | |
Guantanamo Bay is for people who actually were in the war. | 29:32 | |
And what's really important, | 29:36 | |
he was detained before the war even started in Afghanistan. | 29:39 | |
So he wasn't a combatant. | 29:42 | |
Interviewer 1 | Really? | 29:44 |
- | Yes, it's the war has started on Afghanistan | 29:45 |
on the 7th of October. | 29:50 | |
But he was detained before that. | 29:53 | |
So. | 29:56 | |
Interviewer 1 | So, did you think | 29:57 |
he was gonna come home now? | 29:59 | |
Or did you think. | 30:00 | |
- | I had hope that he's gonna come back, yes. | 30:02 |
Interviewer 1 | And did you, were you glad the Americans | 30:04 |
now had him instead of the Egyptians? | 30:06 | |
So were you still worried? | 30:08 | |
What were you? | 30:09 | |
- | No, of course not. | 30:10 |
They just, no one should have him, you know. | 30:11 | |
He should come back home because I know my husband | 30:13 | |
we've been married for over 24 years | 30:15 | |
and we've never had any, you know. | 30:17 | |
Whatever he knows I know, | 30:20 | |
whatever I know he knows. | 30:21 | |
So we never hide anything behind our backs up until now. | 30:22 | |
You know? | 30:26 | |
Interviewer 1 | And did you think | 30:27 |
the Australian government was not helping you with them? | 30:28 | |
- | The Australian Government were really hopeless. | 30:30 |
They've done nothing to help my husband. | 30:32 | |
We, what really helped my husband, | 30:35 | |
is first is God was watching over us. | 30:37 | |
And because we've done a very good a media strategy. | 30:40 | |
We let the public know his case needs to be, | 30:45 | |
it's public matter, because if they don't know, | 30:48 | |
they would have killed him in Egypt long time ago. | 30:52 | |
Interviewer 1 | You think? | 30:55 |
- | Yeah, you know what, | 30:55 |
Ohmar Suleiman, Mamdouh even said a written in his book, | 30:56 | |
said, Ohmar Suleiman said he wants me. | 31:00 | |
He wants this woman bring her to me. | 31:03 | |
About me, that's what Mamdouh heard him to say, | 31:08 | |
that he wants me. | 31:10 | |
Why? | 31:12 | |
Because I'm making too much noise here in Egypt. | 31:12 | |
I mean, in Australia. | 31:14 | |
And what really made me encouraged that too. | 31:16 | |
In sometimes in October I received a phone call | 31:23 | |
from a person, a German guy. | 31:27 | |
His name is Ebrahim. | 31:30 | |
He told me that I was the time with your husband | 31:31 | |
and that he has met the Australian Consulate. | 31:35 | |
And he told me if you don't hear from him | 31:39 | |
within two weeks, get him a lawyer. | 31:41 | |
And this is when I actually did get a lawyer, | 31:44 | |
called Steven Hopper | 31:46 | |
Interviewer 1 | And what could Stephen Hopper do for you? | 31:48 |
- | I had done some protest into the, you know, | 31:50 |
done some letters to the, | 31:54 | |
I've done some letters myself | 31:55 | |
but he's done some letters to the officials | 31:56 | |
and he's taken the case further to the court. | 31:59 | |
and you know. | 32:02 | |
Interviewer 1 | And so when he got to Afghanistan | 32:04 |
you knew that through the media, | 32:07 | |
not through the Red Cross. | 32:08 | |
- | No, not from the Red Cross, no. | 32:10 |
The Red Cross, are hopeless I reckon. | 32:12 | |
What Mamdouh told me about the Red Cross. | 32:13 | |
They used to, the interrogators used to pretend | 32:17 | |
to be Red Cross. | 32:19 | |
Interviewer 1 | Really? | 32:21 |
- | Yes. | 32:22 |
Interviewer 1 | And then when he went to Guantanamo | 32:24 |
you heard that through the media too? | 32:26 | |
How did you know he would. | 32:28 | |
- | Yes, through the media too. | 32:29 |
but the first card would receive from Guantanamo Bay | 32:31 | |
that he has been, he arrived in Guantanamo Bay | 32:34 | |
on such a date. | 32:38 | |
I think sometimes it May, they said | 32:39 | |
but other documents that criticize the dates. | 32:41 | |
So it's all, fabricated documents. | 32:44 | |
Interviewer 1 | And were you worried? | 32:49 |
- | From the government. | 32:50 |
Interviewer 1 | Were you worried | 32:52 |
when he was in Guantanamo? | 32:53 | |
- | I don't know if worried is the word | 32:56 |
that I'm you'll be. | 32:58 | |
Interviewer 1 | What did you think was, | 33:01 |
you think was better there than in Egypt or? | 33:02 | |
- | No, because we've seen a lot of things | 33:06 |
about how they dress them | 33:08 | |
and how they had shackled them | 33:10 | |
and how they live like an animal there. | 33:11 | |
You see, when Mamdouh came back, | 33:14 | |
he was protesting on behalf of David Hicks. | 33:15 | |
Not because David Hicks is innocent | 33:20 | |
or has been under torture | 33:22 | |
or anything like that. | 33:23 | |
No one deserves to be in that place. | 33:25 | |
No human being deserves to be in Guantanamo Bay. | 33:26 | |
So up until now, we protest. | 33:29 | |
Even, he mentioned that there were | 33:32 | |
when he first came before he's written his book | 33:33 | |
he told me they were not 10 months old baby in there. | 33:36 | |
There was 100 and something old guy in Guantanamo Bay. | 33:39 | |
Was these a terrorist way, you know? | 33:44 | |
Interviewer 1 | And you received several letters | 33:46 |
from somebody? | 33:49 | |
- | From him. | 33:51 |
I thought it was from him. | 33:52 | |
And I've been replying and being sending him photos | 33:53 | |
and all the photo I've been sending it to him. | 33:55 | |
When first call I've received from him | 33:58 | |
through the from Guantanamo Bay is | 34:01 | |
in August, 2003. | 34:04 | |
When they organized it. | 34:09 | |
And they said I, you wanna speak to your husband? | 34:10 | |
I was shocked, I said, "Of course I wanna speak | 34:15 | |
to my husband." | 34:17 | |
They organize an half an hour phone call. | 34:18 | |
And we went there. | 34:20 | |
I think, no, hold on. | 34:23 | |
I think it was August, 2004, | 34:24 | |
not two and not three, four. | 34:27 | |
And when we went there, my, all my kids | 34:30 | |
and they said it's only half an hour in the morning. | 34:35 | |
And then when we went inside, we had rules. | 34:38 | |
We cannot speak about the situation he's in. | 34:41 | |
We can't, you know. | 34:44 | |
Just hello, hello, that it nothing more. | 34:46 | |
And then, okay, we agreed. | 34:49 | |
We sat down. | 34:51 | |
All of us were sitting down. | 34:52 | |
I was speaking to him. | 34:53 | |
It took me about 15 minutes from the time | 34:54 | |
to actually convince him it was me. | 34:56 | |
He was asking me questions | 34:58 | |
and to make him believe I said, all right, | 35:00 | |
do you remember when, what we did? | 35:02 | |
Where did we go the first night when we got married? | 35:04 | |
He said where? | 35:07 | |
And he was questioned me. | 35:07 | |
I said, in a cinema in city and said, oh, okay. | 35:09 | |
And then we started talking. | 35:11 | |
He told me, you know, | 35:12 | |
the movie, Lock Up for Sylvester Stallone. | 35:14 | |
He told me, this is my life. | 35:16 | |
Then they stopped the phone call. | 35:17 | |
And then he told me, get me your, | 35:19 | |
the person in charge there said, all right. | 35:22 | |
I called her back in and she came | 35:24 | |
and she said, oh, rules no Arabic. | 35:25 | |
You can't speak in Arabic language. | 35:29 | |
You can say about the situation. | 35:31 | |
And by that time, there were few minutes left | 35:33 | |
and they cut off the, yeah, the conversation. | 35:37 | |
We didn't say much. | 35:40 | |
Interviewer 1 | Were you glad you spoke to him? | 35:42 |
- | For sure. | 35:43 |
Afterward, I told the media what the he said | 35:44 | |
about the movie Lock Up, | 35:48 | |
what they got they got the part of Lock Up, | 35:49 | |
where they put, you know, | 35:51 | |
if you've seen that this movie. | 35:52 | |
Is beautiful movie, actually. | 35:54 | |
When he goes in, they put them in isolation | 35:55 | |
and your name and number, you know, | 35:58 | |
that part, they put it actually on news on TV. | 36:00 | |
That was a good description. | 36:03 | |
He was about to tell me that, yeah. | 36:04 | |
Interviewer 1 | And so you felt better | 36:07 |
than he was at least alive? | 36:08 | |
- | Yes, and another time where | 36:11 |
I requested to speak to him | 36:14 | |
but they refused they won't let us talk again. | 36:15 | |
Then there was a guy from Britain, his name is, Tarek. | 36:18 | |
Tarek Dergoul, I think his name. | 36:21 | |
He was released and he refused to speak to the media. | 36:24 | |
He insisted I speak. | 36:28 | |
He wants to speak to me first. | 36:29 | |
So, some of the media, I won't mention who | 36:31 | |
because they didn't want to say it. | 36:35 | |
They paid for our fare, me and my lawyer. | 36:36 | |
And we went to Britain and I went | 36:39 | |
and sit down and spoke to the guy. | 36:41 | |
And he told me his situation. | 36:43 | |
He told me that he believes that all his family is dead. | 36:45 | |
And that's why he hasn't been writing any letters. | 36:48 | |
But I said, I've been receiving letters, you know. | 36:53 | |
It's so it was all confusing. | 36:56 | |
And then we had that phone call. | 36:58 | |
After I came back from Britain. | 36:59 | |
Interviewer 1 | And the letters you received, | 37:02 |
were they blackened out at all? | 37:03 | |
- | Oh, some of them, yes. | 37:04 |
Most of them, they were blacked down. | 37:05 | |
I tried to take it off | 37:07 | |
but you can't really see what's in there. | 37:08 | |
What's underneath. | 37:10 | |
And some of the letters, actually, | 37:12 | |
there were some phrases from the Koran, | 37:14 | |
where it tells me you, like a message. | 37:18 | |
Didn't make much sense to me. | 37:21 | |
And they were just playing up with my mind, I think. | 37:23 | |
Interviewer 1 | Who do you think wrote those letters? | 37:26 |
- | Who else, the criminals. | 37:28 |
The official, they're the terrorists. | 37:30 | |
They're the terrorist. | 37:33 | |
They are the terrorist. | 37:33 | |
They're the one who's been killing people. | 37:34 | |
And he told me that he, | 37:36 | |
they used to get two women from, in a flight. | 37:40 | |
They rape them and chuck them in of, off the flight. | 37:45 | |
It's just unbelievable. | 37:49 | |
The way the American and the Pakistani and the Egyptian | 37:50 | |
and even the Australia, | 37:55 | |
they all have dirty hands. | 37:57 | |
Interviewer 1 | Have you changed your opinion | 38:00 |
about America and fairness? | 38:01 | |
- | American people are so lovely. | 38:04 |
We, you see, we used to go to America all the time. | 38:05 | |
His sisters, they used to live. | 38:07 | |
We've been twice to America. | 38:09 | |
When our kids were young. | 38:10 | |
We love to travel. | 38:12 | |
We travel so many times, | 38:13 | |
different places, went to Egypt twice. | 38:14 | |
We went to Thailand, Singapore. | 38:16 | |
We were in so many different places. | 38:18 | |
We went to the United States. | 38:20 | |
But the official, now I don't trust any official. | 38:21 | |
They are all corrupted. | 38:25 | |
They are bunch of disease. | 38:28 | |
Where they should, we should get some, you know, | 38:30 | |
some medication to get rid of them. | 38:34 | |
Like you get rid of your virus. | 38:36 | |
If you have a virus, they are. | 38:38 | |
So I don't know. | 38:41 | |
I think the best thing to do now, | 38:42 | |
since he's been back up until now, | 38:43 | |
he's been doing really good. | 38:45 | |
He's been outspoken, going to universities, | 38:47 | |
getting invited from different places. | 38:50 | |
He's been a really good speaker and telling everybody | 38:52 | |
he's got nothing to hide and everybody find him | 38:55 | |
as an inspiration, you know, for. | 38:57 | |
Interviewer 1 | Do you ever go speak with them? | 39:00 |
- | Oh yeah, I do. | 39:01 |
But I did a lot of speaking before | 39:02 | |
and I'm glad that he came back. | 39:06 | |
So he took over. | 39:07 | |
So maybe the many people asked after he came back. | 39:08 | |
Why don't you speak? | 39:12 | |
I spoke maybe once or twice. | 39:13 | |
So I don't know countless though, you know. | 39:14 | |
you can't, I can't remember exactly that | 39:17 | |
but I'll leave it off to him now, so. | 39:19 | |
Interviewer 1 | Do your children speak at all? | 39:20 |
- | No | 39:23 |
Interviewer 1 | Do they ever, | 39:25 |
did they ever get any hate mail | 39:26 | |
or any, did they did other children | 39:27 | |
when they went to school ever say anything? | 39:31 | |
- | Yeah, the younger boy, the one I told you | 39:33 |
he didn't know how to handle. | 39:35 | |
He became more troublemaker, not troublemaker. | 39:36 | |
Like keep, anything he sees he picks on | 39:39 | |
and he start fighting, you know? | 39:41 | |
And he got, that's what he needed psychology. | 39:43 | |
He's married now. | 39:46 | |
He's married. | 39:47 | |
And his wife about to have a baby. | 39:48 | |
And the oldest one is not married. | 39:50 | |
Just enjoying his life, I guess. | 39:53 | |
And my daughter she's engaged to married, to be married now. | 39:56 | |
And the youngest she's 11 years now. | 39:59 | |
Interviewer 2 | Did you ever fear | 40:04 |
that you might get arrested or you might get picked up | 40:05 | |
by the Australian government? | 40:08 | |
- | Did I, no I was, actually fighting there | 40:11 |
and speaking out against the Australian government | 40:16 | |
because they're not doing enough for my husband. | 40:20 | |
What they've done. | 40:22 | |
They've sent David Hicks, he's an Australian, | 40:23 | |
Mamdouh Habib is an Australian, | 40:26 | |
but they both had different treatment. | 40:28 | |
David Hicks, he had his lawyer and his father | 40:30 | |
to go and visit him for more than six times. | 40:33 | |
My husband never been visited from any of his family. | 40:36 | |
Interviewer 1 | Why do you think? | 40:40 |
- | And don't forget that David Hicks | 40:41 |
has been charged, release, charged. | 40:43 | |
My husband's never been charged. | 40:45 | |
So does it be different? | 40:47 | |
Interviewer 1 | Why do you think David Hicks. | 40:48 |
- | Because he's, I've heard that in court, | 40:50 |
Alistair Adam, the one who actually sent my husband | 40:53 | |
to Egypt, the consul. | 40:56 | |
Interviewer 1 | He's the one who sent him? | 41:00 |
- | He's the one who sent him. | 41:01 |
Interviewer 1 | How do you know that? | 41:02 |
- | Because that's what my husband said when he | 41:03 |
got interviewed in Pakistan. | 41:07 | |
When he was, detained with the German guys. | 41:09 | |
They send the guys to, back to their country | 41:12 | |
because they consul were very angry | 41:15 | |
and he protested on their behalf | 41:17 | |
and he wanted 48 hours. | 41:18 | |
They have to be back in the and safe. | 41:19 | |
Where my husband, they kept him there, | 41:23 | |
the consul, instead of looking after him and, you know, | 41:25 | |
take, do his rights as an Australian citizen. | 41:30 | |
He said, are you going to see, | 41:33 | |
you're gonna go back to your country, Egypt, | 41:35 | |
where you'll never see your family again. | 41:38 | |
And to see how coward he is, | 41:40 | |
he came in court. | 41:43 | |
When you see my husband, myself, | 41:44 | |
we're protesting on behalf of his passport | 41:45 | |
because he was canceled. | 41:48 | |
When as soon as he came and he hasn't been charged. | 41:49 | |
Why would they cancel his passport? | 41:51 | |
So we've been fighting for his passport. | 41:53 | |
We went for six weeks in trial. | 41:56 | |
We were acting for ourselves, my husband and myself. | 41:59 | |
He came, we requested to have Alistair Adam to come. | 42:02 | |
They brought him to AIT tribunal, | 42:05 | |
where we had the question him. | 42:09 | |
You should see when he first, he was sitting down | 42:10 | |
because Mamdouh had to ask him question. | 42:12 | |
He said, "Mr. Adam." | 42:14 | |
And then Mr. Alistair Adam said, "Mr. Habib." | 42:16 | |
It's like two people has already known each other. | 42:19 | |
And they, you know, like two roosters in about to fight. | 42:22 | |
But he was, he told him, | 42:26 | |
"You scared and you coward for your seat. | 42:27 | |
To admit that you have seen me in Pakistan, | 42:29 | |
but I'm not afraid, why? | 42:33 | |
Because I'm saying the truth." | 42:34 | |
He claims Alistair Adam claims | 42:36 | |
that he didn't see him. | 42:38 | |
He sent him his card through the, | 42:40 | |
what do you call them? | 42:43 | |
ASU and Australian Federal Police | 42:45 | |
and Mamdouh didn't see the Australian Federal Police | 42:49 | |
or ASU. | 42:51 | |
He's never met them. | 42:51 | |
They made up the actual interview | 42:52 | |
and written up and it's all fabricated. | 42:55 | |
And also all blacked out, | 42:57 | |
national security, national corruption. | 42:58 | |
That's what it is. | 43:02 | |
Interviewer 1 | Did Mamdouh get his passport back? | 43:04 |
- | He got his passport back this year in May, 2011. | 43:06 |
Yeah, and we traveled to Egypt, | 43:13 | |
where we took Ohmar Suleiman to court, Military Court, | 43:14 | |
because back in 2007, | 43:19 | |
when Mamdouh released his book. | 43:22 | |
He mentioned Ohmar Suleiman, | 43:24 | |
was the head of the agencies who has actually | 43:26 | |
interrogated Mamdouh and spoke to him, | 43:30 | |
and Jamal Mubarak too. | 43:33 | |
So when we went to Egypt on this, | 43:35 | |
we've got a case in Egypt now against Ohmar Suleiman. | 43:39 | |
Habib al-Adly, the Minister of the Police, | 43:43 | |
Police isn't it, yeah. | 43:48 | |
And what do you call it? | 43:49 | |
Jamal Mubarak, the son of the Hosni Mubarak. | 43:51 | |
Interviewer 1 | Were you afraid going back to Egypt? | 43:54 |
- | Not only us, actually, all our kids. | 43:56 |
They even my husband and my son, his wife. | 43:59 | |
We all went, even my daughter's fiance. | 44:01 | |
He went with us and someone from the Social Alternative | 44:05 | |
and some from the university students | 44:08 | |
and some other activities from the human rights. | 44:13 | |
And they all came with us actually. | 44:17 | |
Interviewer 1 | Did you speak while you were in Egypt | 44:19 |
and speak to him? | 44:20 | |
- | No. I didn't speak. | 44:21 |
Interviewer 1 | Did your husband speak? | 44:22 |
- | He spoke to few, yeah media. | 44:25 |
And he went to the Military Court | 44:29 | |
for seven hours we went. | 44:32 | |
He was getting interviewed, but I was inside with him too, | 44:36 | |
but poor thing, our kids and our, | 44:38 | |
all our friends, they were outside seven hours, | 44:40 | |
in the sun. | 44:43 | |
Interviewer 1 | The case hasn't been resolved yet? | 44:46 |
- | No, not yet, no. | 44:48 |
Interviewer 2 | When you were, | 44:51 |
when the Australian Police first came to your house | 44:53 | |
and searched it and took things like mobiles | 44:59 | |
and computer equipment, | 45:03 | |
how long did it take to get that stuff back? | 45:06 | |
- | Two and a half months. | 45:08 |
And they didn't return it home. | 45:11 | |
I had to go to the police station, | 45:15 | |
so they can give it to me. | 45:16 | |
That's how coward they were. | 45:17 | |
I told them, come over, bring them over. | 45:19 | |
Like you took them and I'll offer you coffee and tea. | 45:21 | |
I think maybe they were worried that I might poison them. | 45:24 | |
So they were too coward to come back. | 45:26 | |
So I went and picked them up | 45:28 | |
but they didn't return everything. | 45:29 | |
There was my son's mobile phone, brand new one. | 45:32 | |
It was likely, I can't remember now | 45:36 | |
but we've done a lot of investigation. | 45:38 | |
I've got a private investigator to look into it | 45:39 | |
and it's gone. | 45:42 | |
It never been returned. | 45:44 | |
Interviewer 1 | Did they why? | 45:45 |
- | And it says, we had on the list a proof | 45:47 |
that it's been returned to the, | 45:51 | |
to my son on the day | 45:53 | |
but how could it be returned on the phone? | 45:55 | |
And it's on the list. | 45:56 | |
It hasn't been returned. | 45:57 | |
And I had $7,000 hidden in my filing cabinet | 45:59 | |
where no one would ever think of, you know, | 46:02 | |
to look into it, but it disappeared. | 46:06 | |
It didn't occur to me at the time. | 46:09 | |
The next day I've realized | 46:11 | |
and I've run like a crazy, | 46:13 | |
to go and check for the money. | 46:14 | |
I didn't find them. | 46:16 | |
'Cause they took so many things | 46:17 | |
Interviewer 1 | And then never returned the money. | 46:18 |
- | No, and they've been, yeah. | 46:21 |
Yeah. The lawyer made complain to the Commissioner of police | 46:22 | |
and they did some investigation as usual. | 46:26 | |
Can't find can't proof. | 46:29 | |
Interviewer 2 | Do you have any intention | 46:32 |
of suing the US Government? | 46:34 | |
- | Tell me how, I'll do it. | 46:39 |
But you know what? | 46:42 | |
I love to go to United State. | 46:43 | |
I like to visit there, but this is an issue. | 46:45 | |
And that's an issue, you know, | 46:50 | |
United State people are really nice. | 46:51 | |
We've been there, | 46:53 | |
his family is there, is nothing. | 46:54 | |
I think they're so naive, like the Australian people | 46:56 | |
but the government are so corrupted. | 46:59 | |
So Obama, he's worse than George Bush. | 47:01 | |
Interviewer 1 | Why is that? | 47:05 |
- | Why is that? | 47:06 |
Because two different dogs | 47:07 | |
that's a dog and that's a dog, | 47:10 | |
but two different colors. | 47:12 | |
Yeah, so whoever, because when he first came | 47:14 | |
and he was about to sign | 47:18 | |
that he's gonna become a prime minister or ? | 47:19 | |
Interviewer 1 | President. | 47:23 |
- | Yeah, president. | 47:24 |
He said, I'm gonna close Guantanamo Bay. | 47:25 | |
And he never did. | 47:27 | |
My husband, they interviewed my husband said, | 47:28 | |
"Oh, what do you think is a good news?" | 47:30 | |
I said, no, Obama is a lawyer. | 47:31 | |
He can't close it, it's Guantanamo Bay. | 47:34 | |
So why you say that? | 47:35 | |
Because it's impossible. | 47:36 | |
He has got a lot of dirt in there | 47:37 | |
that he cannot release to the public. | 47:40 | |
Especially the 10 months year old, 10 months baby. | 47:41 | |
Now he probably now 11 years old now? | 47:45 | |
He comes out to the people. | 47:48 | |
What he's gonna say to the people. | 47:49 | |
I've been in Guantanamo bay, 'cause I'm a terrorist | 47:50 | |
since I was born. | 47:52 | |
Just, they can't close it. | 47:53 | |
They just can't close it. | 47:56 | |
So Obama is a liar. | 47:57 | |
And when he came here to Australia, he wanted. | 47:59 | |
we've sent him a letter that we want to meet up | 48:04 | |
and ask him questions. | 48:06 | |
He said, oh, his schedule is full. | 48:07 | |
You need to organize it next time. | 48:09 | |
So whatever. | 48:11 | |
Interviewer 2 | How would you close Guantanamo? | 48:15 |
What would you do with those people who are still there? | 48:17 | |
- | How would I close Guantanamo Bay? | 48:22 |
Interviewer 2 | If you were in charge? | 48:24 |
- | If I was in charge? | 48:25 |
I think you should ask that to my husband. | 48:27 | |
He'll give you a good answer for that. | 48:29 | |
Me, no place like that should be open. | 48:30 | |
Yeah, there's a lot of innocent | 48:36 | |
and it's been proven that they are innocent, you know? | 48:37 | |
And why have them there if they're still innocent. | 48:41 | |
Interviewer 1 | So I kind of asked it before | 48:44 |
but before we talk about when Mamdouh came out, | 48:46 | |
but it sounds like your life really did change | 48:50 | |
over these 10 years. | 48:52 | |
You just didn't politics, I guess. | 48:54 | |
Were you politically active before? | 48:56 | |
- | No, we like before my husband left, | 48:58 |
we used to have a shop | 49:01 | |
and we still have a cleaning business at the same time. | 49:04 | |
And on the weekend we used to, | 49:07 | |
there's a lot of people who came out of Detention Center | 49:09 | |
like a refugee and they needed some assistance. | 49:12 | |
They needed some help. | 49:15 | |
We used to organize like a hall on a Saturday | 49:16 | |
whatever food I get from the shop, | 49:19 | |
I used to get them, put them there. | 49:22 | |
Even we used to supply computers for them. | 49:24 | |
Laptop, we can write letters. | 49:26 | |
Like my husband he is so human rights. | 49:29 | |
He used to get me to write letters | 49:31 | |
on behalf of other people. | 49:33 | |
And it used to be so frustrating, but you know, | 49:35 | |
it's part of him. | 49:36 | |
That's part of him, being a human rights activist. | 49:38 | |
So I think, I became like that too. | 49:41 | |
You know he, you see, even in interview with | 49:44 | |
I think, not Four Corners, SPS a question, | 49:49 | |
I'll never forget that he was asked, | 49:52 | |
"When you were in Pakistan | 49:56 | |
and you were taken off the bus | 49:58 | |
and you protested on behalf of those German guys. | 50:02 | |
If you didn't, do you regret it? | 50:06 | |
Like, do you feel sorry? | 50:08 | |
You've done it? | 50:09 | |
Said no. | 50:10 | |
So he never feel sorry for doing the right thing, | 50:11 | |
which is good. | 50:14 | |
That's part of a good human being. | 50:15 | |
Interviewer 1 | Have you been in touch with | 50:17 |
any of the former detainees we said? | 50:18 | |
- | Yes, yeah we have actually we spoke to Sadiq Bear. | 50:20 |
We spoke to the British guys. | 50:26 | |
We spoke someone who's been from Namadeen | 50:30 | |
from Saudi Arabia has been released Saudi Arabia | 50:33 | |
there's quite a few people. | 50:35 | |
Yeah, and it would be nice if he can actually go on and | 50:36 | |
because he's seen them, you know. | 50:40 | |
What's really interesting. | 50:42 | |
This guy from the Saudi Arabia, he was released, I think, | 50:42 | |
two years ago, I can't remember what year, | 50:46 | |
but he, when he was released, | 50:48 | |
he managed to call Mamdouh and he spoke to him. | 50:50 | |
And he told him I've got a message from the detainee | 50:53 | |
because they used to. | 50:57 | |
Because of David Hicks, what he's done. | 50:59 | |
He made rumors about Mamdouh that he was a spy | 51:02 | |
and he told him, oh Mamdouh, | 51:06 | |
I'm really sorry, forgive me. | 51:08 | |
I told the investigators that you are a terrorist | 51:10 | |
or you are a spy, | 51:14 | |
But he meant to actually tell it in front of everyone. | 51:17 | |
Where everybody used to think he was. | 51:20 | |
They used to attack him. | 51:23 | |
You see they all in the best situation, | 51:25 | |
but everybody deal with different, you know, | 51:27 | |
psychologically. | 51:29 | |
And they used to attack him and they send them a message. | 51:30 | |
They said, tell Mamdouh Habib to forgive us | 51:32 | |
for what we have done to him. | 51:36 | |
That's really touchy. | 51:38 | |
It was really, it really charged him up, my husband so. | 51:40 | |
Interviewer 1 | Did you ever speak to any of the wives? | 51:43 |
- | So I spoke to what's his name? | 51:46 |
The Al Jazeera's Cambra Samulhaj | 51:49 | |
before he was released. | 51:53 | |
I spoke to her, once or twice. | 51:54 | |
And when he was released, I haven't spoken to anybody since. | 51:57 | |
Interviewer 1 | And was his situation like yours? | 52:00 |
Was she also? | 52:02 | |
- | Yeah, she was sort of down and, but she, | 52:03 |
I think she was different than me. | 52:07 | |
She hasn't actually gone out to the media and spoke out | 52:09 | |
and explain the situation where I been encouraged. | 52:12 | |
I'm not being, you know, | 52:17 | |
but I've been encouraged to do it. | 52:18 | |
I didn't do it for myself. | 52:20 | |
Maybe she didn't have someone to encourage her | 52:21 | |
but I've been encouraged to speak out | 52:23 | |
and let the public know everything about it. | 52:25 | |
Interviewer 1 | Sounds like that helped you cope as well. | 52:28 |
Just having that opportunity to speak out. | 52:31 | |
- | Yes. | 52:33 |
Even looking at my kids | 52:34 | |
that's what charged me up. | 52:35 | |
'Cause I have to be there for them. | 52:37 | |
And believe me all this hard work | 52:39 | |
and protesting and speaking | 52:42 | |
and sometimes you have your down | 52:44 | |
and sometimes you are strong. | 52:46 | |
It's worse having released, having him released | 52:48 | |
Interviewer 1 | Well, so can you tell us then | 52:52 |
when you heard that he has been released, | 52:54 | |
did you believe it? | 52:57 | |
- | Yeah, I believed it. | 53:00 |
I believe because when God demands for his release | 53:01 | |
it did read it real. | 53:04 | |
God has demanded for his release and he was released. | 53:09 | |
Interviewer 1 | And so when he, | 53:13 |
so then they told you when he's gonna be arriving and? | 53:15 | |
- | No, no. | 53:19 |
They told us, | 53:20 | |
I heard it in December and they said | 53:22 | |
it would sometimes in January | 53:24 | |
but the won't give you a specific day. | 53:26 | |
But when I spoke to my lawyer and to Joe Margulies | 53:28 | |
they indicated to me a rough time | 53:31 | |
the way he might be coming, | 53:33 | |
but I couldn't speak, | 53:35 | |
I couldn't tell anyone else. | 53:36 | |
Because we needed to keep it secret for his arrival. | 53:37 | |
Because of the media attention. | 53:41 | |
But what happened myself, | 53:44 | |
Steven Hopper went to Bankstown Airport | 53:46 | |
and we caught a little flight where it took us | 53:52 | |
to the international airport. | 53:54 | |
And we waited there for him. | 53:58 | |
And when he came down from the flight | 54:01 | |
and I was sitting down inside the flight | 54:03 | |
and I was keep looking and he | 54:07 | |
the lawyers kept telling me close it. | 54:08 | |
Don't say it because we wouldn't get any photo from | 54:10 | |
you know, taken from many media. | 54:13 | |
So I was just peeking all the time, | 54:15 | |
waiting until the flight comes. | 54:17 | |
So when he came, as soon as he went inside, oh my God. | 54:18 | |
It's just say that. | 54:22 | |
It was unbelievable. | 54:23 | |
It was just flying for, I don't know. | 54:25 | |
I can't describe it. | 54:28 | |
The feeling that we had and we both, you know, | 54:29 | |
hugged and then he looks completely different, | 54:32 | |
completely different. | 54:35 | |
I've showed you the photo, how he looked, yeah. | 54:38 | |
Interviewer 1 | Maybe you can show it again, | 54:41 |
but with the children with you at that time. | 54:42 | |
- | No. | 54:43 |
Interviewer 1 | You didn't want the children? | 54:44 |
- | They can't, the flight is big enough | 54:45 |
because Joe Margulies was coming with him. | 54:48 | |
So myself and Mamdouh had the bag | 54:50 | |
and Joe Margulies and Steven Hopper and the driver. | 54:52 | |
It was a small flight. | 54:55 | |
So when we came back and came back to Bankstown Airport, | 54:56 | |
it was a special flight. | 55:00 | |
And then we went by car. | 55:02 | |
Media couldn't catch us. | 55:05 | |
Interviewer 1 | So the media never got. | 55:07 |
- | No. | 55:08 |
They were making a big reward for the first photo taken | 55:10 | |
of Mamdouh Habib when he first arrived. | 55:14 | |
And who got it? | 55:16 | |
Someone from The Telegraph. | 55:17 | |
Interviewer 1 | And so you, | 55:23 |
so Mamdouh said he told us that he wasn't, | 55:25 | |
he couldn't quite believe that he | 55:30 | |
that you were his wife and family. | 55:31 | |
- | Yeah, actually I noticed that. | 55:33 |
Yeah, and it took him about nine to a year, | 55:36 | |
nine months to one year | 55:39 | |
before he can actually believe that he's. | 55:41 | |
He thought it was another injection was given | 55:44 | |
and whatever mistake the kids used to do. | 55:46 | |
That they, you see they're not my kids, | 55:49 | |
you're not my family. | 55:51 | |
You know, he used to pick on everything, poor thing. | 55:52 | |
Interviewer 1 | How was that for you? | 55:55 |
- | I can't complain, my complaint up to God | 56:00 |
and God would reward us. | 56:02 | |
No worry, because you're an innocent, | 56:04 | |
God will give you more power. | 56:06 | |
And the more you believe in God, | 56:09 | |
the more your faith become more stronger | 56:11 | |
and you can speak out more, you know. | 56:13 | |
I think you should never have | 56:16 | |
we've never had anything to hide. | 56:17 | |
So I'm not worried about anything. | 56:19 | |
I'll just speak out. | 56:20 | |
Interviewer 1 | And finally, he was able to adjust and. | 56:22 |
- | Yeah, bit by bit. | 56:25 |
It is still, you know, | 56:26 | |
it's, he gets his up and down now | 56:27 | |
and he's got skin problems. | 56:30 | |
Comes and goes. | 56:31 | |
Like this morning, it's just out of nowhere, | 56:33 | |
we wake up, his lip is swollen. | 56:35 | |
People think I punch him or something, | 56:38 | |
but no, so, but he and when he gets really angry. | 56:39 | |
All rush on his face | 56:44 | |
or not angry, but when he's really thinking too much | 56:45 | |
or when we go, we've been going to court. | 56:50 | |
So I think, I'm more experienced than a lawyer now | 56:51 | |
because we've been going to court so many times | 56:54 | |
and all the, you know, in court they said | 56:57 | |
they should give you a room in court here. | 57:01 | |
So that's how often we go to court. | 57:04 | |
Interviewer 1 | I think we need to end soon, | 57:07 |
but do you wanna show us what you brought and then. | 57:08 | |
- | Yeah. | 57:12 |
Interviewer 1 | I can get it. | 57:14 |
- | It was all open, sorry. | 57:15 |
Interviewer 2 | Okay. | 57:16 |
Interviewer 1 | And then I have one or two more questions | 57:17 |
then we'll, that's okay. | 57:20 | |
And then close the. | 57:22 | |
- | Yeah, these are the tablets that they gave him | 57:24 |
when he was, when he came off the flight | 57:25 | |
and they said that he has cancer. | 57:28 | |
And when we did some checkup for him, | 57:30 | |
he doesn't have any cancer. | 57:32 | |
Interviewer 1 | And does it say Guantanamo on there? | 57:34 |
- | It says Novel Hospital, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. | 57:36 |
There's a phone number, | 57:41 | |
phone 72190 | 57:43 | |
and refills number. | 57:46 | |
I don't know. | 57:49 | |
And it's fading away actually the name, | 57:51 | |
but this is the actual name. | 57:53 | |
Interviewer 1 | And what is the other? | 57:56 |
- | The other one is his wrist band that they gave him | 57:59 |
where it says on the top. | 58:03 | |
U S 9 E G . | 58:05 | |
E G mean Egyptian. | 58:09 | |
He's not Australian. | 58:10 | |
They don't count him as Egyptian | 58:11 | |
and his number 661DP. | 58:13 | |
And Mamdouh Habib Ahmed. | 58:16 | |
Interviewer 1 | And did he wear that in Guantanamo only, | 58:18 |
when he got off the plane? | 58:20 | |
When did he get that? | 58:21 | |
- | Oh, they gave it to him when he got off the flight | 58:23 |
in Sydney. | 58:27 | |
Interviewer 1 | And you know why they gave it to him then? | 58:28 |
- | No, idea. | 58:31 |
That's all they gave him and $200 that he had. | 58:32 | |
Where's his luggage, where's his bags? | 58:34 | |
Gone up until now. | 58:36 | |
We haven't seen it. | 58:37 | |
So he came with just the new jeans suit | 58:39 | |
supplied by American, I guess. | 58:43 | |
Okay, how generous? | 58:47 | |
And, but his bag and luggage and all his belonging. | 58:49 | |
We've never seen up until now. | 58:52 | |
It's gone. | 58:54 | |
Interviewer 1 | Do you get it? | 58:57 |
Okay, so. | 58:58 | |
- | See how he looked when he came? | 59:02 |
Interviewer 1 | That's how he looked | 59:08 |
when he came off the plane. | 59:09 | |
- | Yeah, that's few hours. | 59:10 |
It's been taken few hours after he came home. | 59:12 | |
On the same day. | 59:15 | |
Interviewer 1 | How did that compare to when he left? | 59:15 |
When he left from. | 59:19 | |
- | Look how he looks. | 59:20 |
Big, big, different. | 59:23 | |
Interviewer 1 | In the picture, on the band? | 59:25 |
- | It looks different too. | 59:27 |
That was, I think when he was released in Egypt | 59:28 | |
that's how he puffed up. | 59:32 | |
He was because of the gas they used to give him. | 59:33 | |
Interviewer 1 | They gave him gas when he was? | 59:36 |
- | Yeah and drugs. | 59:37 |
Interviewer 1 | And so in closing I guess, | 59:44 |
since time is up. | 59:48 | |
What would you, is it. | 59:52 | |
What would you like to just say to the world and to America. | 59:54 | |
- | Never be afraid of the truth. | 1:00:00 |
Be outspoken. | 1:00:02 | |
Look for justice. | 1:00:05 | |
Anyone who needs help, help. | 1:00:06 | |
Don't hesitate | 1:00:08 | |
and continue with what you're doing. | 1:00:10 | |
Very good. | 1:00:13 | |
Yeah. | 1:00:15 | |
Interviewer 1 | Well, thank you so much. | 1:00:17 |
And we need to take 20 seconds of just quiet. | 1:00:18 | |
So Jen needs to do room tone, but, | 1:00:21 | |
Interviewer 1 | and while I do this, | 1:00:24 |
if you could just hold up the | 1:00:26 | |
- | Yeah. | 1:00:29 |
Interviewer 1 | I think yeah, the picture | 1:00:30 |
and not the pills, | 1:00:31 | |
maybe that picture would be great. | 1:00:32 | |
Camera Man | Those two pictures? | 1:00:34 |
Interviewer 1 | Yeah. | 1:00:35 |
Camera Man | Okay. | 1:00:36 |
Hold them a little higher please. | 1:00:40 | |
Okay, now I'm getting a weird reflection on the one | 1:00:44 | |
on this end. | 1:00:46 | |
Yeah, that's perfect. | 1:00:47 | |
And just tilt this one this way. | 1:00:50 | |
Okay, great. | 1:00:52 | |
And then look at Peter. | 1:01:00 | |
Okay, begin room tone. | 1:01:03 | |
End room tone. | 1:01:21 | |
Interviewer 1 | That was a wonderful interview, | 1:01:24 |
that was wonderful. | 1:01:25 | |
- | Thank You. | 1:01:26 |
Interviewer 1 | I'm very honored to have you speak. | 1:01:27 |
Item Info
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