Tapes 10 and 11, 2000 April / Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee 40th anniversary conference videocassette tapes, 2000 / Duke Digital Repository

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Emerge a structure.

0:00

Some consensus on an agenda for sure.

0:04

She definitely believed you should have an agenda

0:07

that you're pursuing.

0:10

And I thought, I saw her as being

0:13

a very business-like person too, in a way.

0:14

We went to Atlantic City in '64, with the MFDP.

0:18

I was assigned to accompany Mrs. Hartman Turnbow

0:22

from Tchula, Mississippi

0:26

to lobby the Oregon Delegation

0:30

and Congresswoman Edith Green

0:32

and Senator Wayne Morse

0:36

were from Oregon.

0:41

And Mrs. Turnbow always had this little brown paper bag.

0:42

I didn't realize until after that,

0:47

he had made this most eloquent statement

0:49

on why we should, in fact, be seated.

0:53

I learned later that, they called 'em Mrs. Turnbow's Sweets.

1:00

The sweets had a pistol in her brown paper bag.

1:03

(audience laughter)

1:07

Let me just wrap up by simply saying

1:10

that none of us would ever have envisioned

1:15

our actions, then, would lead to

1:18

our young people killing each other.

1:20

Our families being distraught.

1:23

Our communities being wracked by violence and crack.

1:27

We would not have imagined that there would be something

1:30

called an intractable underclass.

1:33

We would not have envisioned that there would be a time

1:37

when we would be afraid of our own children.

1:42

And I think if there is anything that disappoints me,

1:46

more than anything else, it is that

1:50

we have come a long way, but in many ways,

1:54

there's a kind of spiritual poverty

1:58

that is much more insidious, dangerous,

2:00

much different than anything I experienced

2:03

growing up under repressive Mississippi regime.

2:05

And it's of an onset that each generation

2:08

must decide, must define it's mission,

2:14

fulfill it, or betray it.

2:19

We did ours and I think my son and his generation,

2:21

your children, the young people here today,

2:26

have, I believe, a tougher set

2:28

of problems to solve than we did.

2:31

Thank you.

2:33

(audience applause)

2:34

-

As you know, we've run slightly overtime

2:45

and lunch is waiting at the Student Center.

2:50

They're holding lunch for us.

2:53

So anyone is welcome, I think the charge is three dollars

2:55

if you're not a panelist.

2:59

This afternoon, the panels will be in the Civic Center,

3:04

will be back in the Civic Center

3:07

and there's, on the ground floor,

3:09

and there should be signs up for the panels.

3:11

(audience grumbling)

3:14

I think, let's go for 2:15 because we're, yeah.

3:20

♪ Stayed on freedom ♪

3:29

♪ Hallelu, hallelu, hallelu, hallelujah ♪

3:33

♪ Come on and walk, walk ♪

3:40

♪ Come on and walk, walk ♪

3:42

♪ Come on and walk, walk ♪

3:43

♪ With your mind on freedom, walk, walk ♪

3:45

♪ Come on and walk, walk ♪

3:49

♪ Come on and walk, walk ♪

3:51

♪ Come on and walk, walk ♪

3:53

♪ Oh, ♪

3:55

♪ Walk, walk ♪

3:59

♪ Come on and walk, walk ♪

4:00

♪ You gotta talk, talk ♪

4:02

♪ You gotta talk, talk ♪

4:04

♪ You gotta talk, talk ♪

4:05

♪ You've got your mind on freedom, talk, talk ♪

4:07

♪ You gotta talk, talk ♪

4:11

♪ You gotta talk, talk ♪

4:12

♪ You gotta talk ♪

4:14

♪ With your mind on freedom ♪

♪ Oh, ♪

4:17

♪ Talk, talk ♪

4:20

♪ Come on and talk, talk ♪

4:22

♪ Oh Lord, ain't no harm to keep'n mind ♪

4:23

♪ Your mind stayed on freedom ♪

4:27

♪ Oh, ain't no harm to keep'n your mind ♪

4:30

♪ Stayed on freedom ♪

4:35

♪ You know it ♪

4:38

♪ Ain't no harm to keep your mind ♪

4:39

♪Stayed on freedom ♪

4:42

♪ Hallelu, hallelu, hallelu, hallelu, ♪

4:45

♪ Hallelujah ♪

4:49

(audience applause)

4:57

♪ Do you come from ♪

5:01

♪ Where ♪

5:08

♪ Do you go ♪

5:15

♪ Where ♪

5:22

♪ Do you come from ♪

5:29

♪ My cotton eyed Joe ♪

5:36

♪ But if it hadn't been for ♪

5:44

♪ But if hadn't been for ♪

5:49

♪ My cotton eyed Joe ♪

5:55

♪ Where ♪

6:07

♪ Do you come from, oh yeah ♪

6:15

♪ Where ♪

6:23

♪ Do you go ♪

6:30

♪ Where ♪

6:38

♪ Do you come from ♪

6:46

♪ My cotton eyed Joe ♪

6:54

-

This has to be written by only guy I know Black

7:04

who sang his way out of possible prison.

7:07

His name is Huey Lebdow.

7:10

♪ Well, this little light of mine ♪

7:14

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

7:18

♪ Oh, this little light of mine ♪

7:20

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

7:24

♪ Let it shine ♪

7:26

♪ This little light of mine ♪

7:27

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

7:29

♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪

7:32

♪ Everywhere I go, ♪

7:36

♪ You know that I'm gonna let it shine ♪

7:38

♪ Everywhere I go ♪

7:41

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

7:44

♪ Everywhere I go ♪

7:47

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

7:50

♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪

7:53

♪ Oh tell them they go ♪

7:57

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

8:01

♪ Tell them let it go ♪

8:04

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

8:07

♪ Tell them, Lord, Lord ♪

8:10

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

8:13

♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪

8:15

♪ This little light of mine ♪

8:20

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

8:23

♪ Oh, this little light of mine ♪

8:25

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

8:29

♪ Let it shine ♪

8:31

♪ This little light of mine ♪

8:32

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

8:35

♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪

8:37

♪ Oh down in Raleigh, Carolina ♪

8:41

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

8:45

♪ Oh down in Raleigh, Carolina ♪

8:47

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

8:51

♪ Let it shine ♪

8:53

♪ Down in Raleigh, Carolina ♪

8:54

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

8:57

♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪

8:59

♪ Oh, shine, shine, shine ♪

9:03

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

9:07

♪ Oh, shine, shine, shine, shine ♪

9:09

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

9:12

♪ Oh, shine, shine, shine, shine ♪

9:15

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

9:18

♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪

9:20

♪ Oh Mississippi ♪

9:27

Lead

Come on, now.

9:29

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

9:29

♪ Oh Mississippi ♪

9:32

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

9:35

♪ All over Mississippi ♪

9:38

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

9:41

♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪

9:43

♪ This little light of mine ♪

9:49

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

9:51

♪ Oh, this little light of mine ♪

9:53

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

9:57

♪ This little light of mine ♪

10:00

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

10:03

♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪

10:05

♪ Tell everybody ♪

10:11

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

10:13

♪ Tell everybody ♪

10:16

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

10:19

♪ Tell everybody ♪

10:22

♪ I'm gonna let it shine ♪

10:25

♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪

10:27

(audience applause)

10:36

Rodney

Good afternoon.

10:48

My name is Rodney Poole and I am the current

10:50

Student Government Association President

10:52

here at Shaw University.

10:54

And I consider it an honor and a privilege

10:56

to stand before you today on this historic occasion.

10:58

I'd like to recognize a dignitary in our,

11:01

one of the many dignitaries in our audience this afternoon.

11:05

Mayor Clarence Lightner, the first and only

11:08

African American mayor of Raleigh, North Carolina.

11:13

(audience applause)

11:16

We will now have the invocation by Dr. Percy Scott Jones.

11:22

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Let us be together with God and one another as we pray.

11:32

Let us pray.

11:36

Eternal law, mighty and everlasting, God, our Father,

11:39

we come to this historic moment ever so mindful

11:42

of the mighty ways in which you have worked

11:47

through your creation in order

11:50

to achieve redemption for all human kind.

11:53

Our spirits are lifted this afternoon,

11:57

as we recall the likes of one Ella Baker,

12:00

who in the face of danger

12:04

and the threat of negative consequences,

12:06

nevertheless, sought to do your bidding.

12:09

As we pause to mark her place in history,

12:13

as we honor her memory and as we celebrate

12:16

the courageous work of the

12:20

Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.

12:22

We pray that the flame of such courage and noble cause,

12:25

might be undamned.

12:29

That the march towards freedom, justice, and equality

12:33

might persist.

12:36

Give us strength to build upon this history

12:38

till at last, we usher in a new day

12:41

where community is not defined by color or location,

12:45

but by those who accept your love

12:51

and who resolve to do your will.

12:53

By dedicating this marker, we dedicate ourselves

12:57

to no less a cause.

13:01

In the name of the Holy Father, we pray.

13:05

Amen.

13:07

-

Thank you, Dr. Scott.

13:13

At this time, we will have words of welcome

13:14

from our president, Dr. Talbert O. Shaw.

13:16

President

Thank you.

13:20

(audience applause)

13:22

-

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon.

13:27

We have some dignitaries, here.

13:32

We have mentioned one.

13:33

We're all dignitaries.

13:34

But we have a few that punctuate each in a very special way.

13:36

We have with us, former Mayor Barry.

13:41

Come and shake my hand Barry.

13:43

(audience applause)

13:45

We also have with us today, the very distinguished leader

13:52

and one of the founders of SNCC, the honorable Julian Bond,

13:56

where is he?

13:59

(audience applause)

14:00

Again, we want to welcome you to this historic occasion.

14:07

Years ago, when SNCC was founded, little did I know,

14:10

that I would have an opportunity to participate

14:13

in celebrating this most important point

14:16

in the history of this country.

14:20

SNCC and others changed the extreme of American history.

14:23

We're rejoicing today in the commitment

14:27

and the leadership that they brought forth

14:30

towards this difficult problem.

14:33

I want to congratulate Mr. Ward and others,

14:36

who thought of this celebration

14:39

and who have spent a long time getting it together.

14:41

I want to applaud you.

14:45

(audience applause)

14:47

And then all those who have stood with you

14:52

through the immense of preparation.

14:55

In a sense, we are celebrating

14:58

three important events here today.

14:59

We are celebrating SNCC that helps

15:04

to change the course of history

15:06

but we are also celebrating a distinguished woman,

15:09

who has left her mark on American history

15:13

and particularly on this movement,

15:16

and that is Ella Baker.

15:19

She was a most committed woman.

15:23

(audience applause)

15:28

And the third thing that we are celebrating today

15:31

is a historic relationship that this institution has had.

15:35

With SNCC and with the effort to change human relations.

15:39

Shaw has been sitting here for 135 years.

15:45

SNCC was founded in the womb of this university

15:49

and we are committed to the liberation,

15:52

not only of the mind, but of the spirit.

15:54

And so this institution, we can say today

15:57

that it is a part of history that helped

16:00

to liberate men and women and we are delighted

16:03

that Shaw University's a part of it.

16:06

(audience applause)

16:08

History unwritten or unspoken is forgotten history.

16:13

Today, the establishment of this marker

16:19

punctuates the fact that we are righting this history

16:21

and in perpetuity, it will remain here

16:25

to say that there was a group of people

16:29

who committed their lives and their times

16:33

in conjunction with this institution

16:36

to help change the course of American history.

16:38

We are delighted to be a part of it

16:41

and we hope that you continue to enjoy

16:43

the rest of this great event.

16:45

Congratulations, God bless you all.

16:47

(audience applause)

16:49

-

Thank you for those words, Dr. Shaw.

16:55

At this time, we will have remarks from Mrs. Betsy Buford

16:58

of the Deputy Secretary of the North Carolina Department

17:01

of Cultural Resources.

17:04

-

Ladies and gentlemen, it is my honor

17:08

to welcome you on behalf of the state of North Carolina.

17:10

And to tell those of you who are out of state, especially,

17:14

what this highway marker means.

17:17

It means that a group of historians

17:19

has approved it's incredible validity.

17:22

There're only so many highway markers

17:25

that are passed every year

17:27

and our department of cultural resources,

17:29

specifically the division of archives and history,

17:31

approved this marker three years ago

17:34

but because we have some sense of history, ourselves,

17:37

we saved it so it could be unveiled with you here

17:41

to add to it's own sense of momentous in history.

17:44

(audience applause)

17:48

So thank you for being here.

Highway markers are very important

17:52

because they are very exclusive.

17:54

They're also important, I think,

17:56

because people take note of them.

17:58

It's not only the text, which Michael Hill will comment on

18:00

in just a few moments, but it's grounded here,

18:04

as most of you probably already noticed,

18:06

by Martin Luther King Boulevard,

18:09

and yes, I know you all know he was here,

18:11

and as President Shaw has already noted,

18:14

historically grounded here in Shaw University

18:16

in honor of Ella Baker and those wonderful Shaw students

18:19

and students from across the nation who came that day.

18:23

Thank you for being here.

18:27

There are many giants who have already been recognized

18:28

and are yet to be recognized in the crowd.

18:31

I want to evoke the name of my mentor,

18:34

Terry Sanford, who some of you knew personally,

18:37

and who as a very young and very brave

18:41

and very smart governor deputized the Highway Patrol

18:43

to make certain that SNCC voter registration students

18:48

in the next two years after it's founding

18:52

in the following summers stayed safe and were safe.

18:54

So welcome, thank you for honoring us with your presence

18:58

and thank you for helping us

19:02

let us share in your celebration.

19:04

God bless.

19:06

(audience applause)

19:07

Rodney

Thank you Mrs. Buford.

19:11

Now we will have remarks from Mr. Michael Hill,

19:13

a researcher of the North Carolina Division

19:16

of Archives and History.

19:18

Michael Hill

This is a great day.

19:21

These signs, certainly familiar to those of you

19:22

who are from North Carolina.

19:25

They're all over the state in every county.

19:26

But you'll find signs of this type, historical markers,

19:28

in most every state and a lot of municipalities,

19:30

there made by a foundery in Ohio.

19:33

They're made of cast aluminum.

19:36

They're intended to be permanent markers, memorials.

19:38

North Carolina got into this business

19:41

of putting up this type of standard state markers

19:44

way back in 1936.

19:47

In the earliest years of the program,

19:49

not surprisingly, they spent a lot of time

19:50

marking governors, civil war battles, shrines,

19:52

those sorts of things, but there was some thought given

19:56

to African American history in the early years.

19:59

The very first to a Black North Carolinian

20:02

was to John Chavis, a name much honored here in Raleigh.

20:05

That marker is at Chavis park.

20:09

In fact, it is the original marker.

20:10

It has been there since 1939.

20:12

The second one was the one here at Shaw.

20:14

The original marker up here across from McDonald's

20:17

was put up in 1939

20:20

so there's been an interest but I'm glad

20:23

to see that in recent years,

20:25

there have been more markers and more attention

20:27

to a more inclusive sense of history,

20:29

bringing everyone in to

20:33

our history.

20:37

This is only the second marker we've had

20:38

that is related to Civil Rights Movement.

20:40

The first one went up 20 years ago at Greensboro

20:42

to designate the site of the sit-ins in Greensboro

20:46

but I could expect that we would see other markers

20:50

of this type in the future.

20:52

We, in fact, have had inquiries about Ella Baker.

20:55

Question may arise, why is Ella Baker's name

20:57

not on this sign.

20:59

The text is very limited as it is on all these signs.

21:00

Our intention with these signs is that

21:03

we keep the words to a minimum.

21:05

That they be seen from traffic if possible.

21:08

This one is well situated so the traffic

21:11

at the stop sign will be able to read it.

21:13

Ella Baker's name is not on the sign

21:15

for a very simple reason.

21:18

Our guiding legislation

21:19

prohibits us from naming a person on a sign

21:22

until 25 years after that person's death

21:25

and Ms. Baker died in 1986 and I can see that

21:27

in about 10, 11 years, she will be eligible.

21:31

(audience laughs)

21:34

I've already had discussions with people in Halifax County

21:35

and I think that there will be a lot of interest

21:38

in Littleton, which is her hometown

21:40

for the marker but we would be glad

21:43

to consider other sites.

21:46

We often have one area.

21:47

There might be interest here at Shaw.

21:49

There might be interest in the hometown.

21:51

I know in the case of John Coltrane.

21:53

He's a North Carolinian.

21:55

We had kindof a competition between Hamlet,

21:56

where he was born and lived till the age of two,

21:59

and High Point, where he grew up, went to high school.

22:01

So, at any rate, we'll try to make the best decision

22:03

when Ella Baker is eligible for this marker.

22:06

Those decisions are made, as Betsy mentioned,

22:08

by a committee of historians that meet twice each year.

22:10

We'll take proposals from anyone that cares

22:13

to come to us with proposals.

22:15

In this case, the topic of SNCC came up

22:16

from discussions within the committee

22:20

that recognition of the anniversary was approaching

22:21

and this would certainly be an important topic.

22:24

They looked for things of statewide significance.

22:27

In this case, as this conference is designated

22:29

as a national conference, this clearly was an eligible topic

22:32

because this is a topic of national importance.

22:35

The program's cosponsored by

22:41

the Department of Transportation.

22:42

DOT comes in for a lot of licks across the state

22:43

but they do do some things that everyone can applaud.

22:46

I was out here last Wednesday when the sign went up

22:49

and DOT did a good job of placing it.

22:51

As I said, it's in an ideal location,

22:55

major entrance to Raleigh.

22:57

Intersection of Martin Luther King and Wilmington Street.

22:59

Southeastern corner of the Shaw campus.

23:03

I think it's ideally placed.

23:06

So to conclude, it's my hope that this marker

23:08

will play some small part in seeing that SNCC

23:10

is remembered, memorialized, and honored

23:15

here in the city where it was created

23:18

for many, many years to come.

23:20

(audience applause)

23:22

-

Thank you Mr. Hill.

23:28

I'd like to recognize three very important people

23:30

in our audience this afternoon.

23:32

From the Raleigh Citizens Association of 1960

23:34

that cosponsored with the SCLC,

23:38

the Easter weekend conference, Ms. Vivian Irving,

23:41

(audience applause)

23:45

Ms. Mabel Wright,

23:52

(audience applause)

23:54

and Dr. John Fleming.

23:59

(audience applause)

24:01

Now we'll have remarks from Ms. Camilla Wright

24:08

of the African American Heritage Society

24:10

of North Carolina State University.

24:13

(audience laughter)

24:20

Camilla Wright

Hi, good afternoon.

24:21

I'm standing in for Mr. Harold Pettigrew,

24:23

who was unable to be here due to a meeting.

24:25

He was just recently elected our Student Body President

24:27

at NC State so I'm quite sure he's busy

24:29

in having other things to deal with right now.

24:31

As a student and a president of organization

24:33

African American Heritage Society on NC State's campus,

24:36

this conference has been successful.

24:39

I'm learning things to use with my organization

24:42

to go back and help motivate the students

24:46

that are in the organization with me

24:48

and just to be able to say, well look, we have bigger things

24:51

to deal with and we can't play around.

24:54

I'm really, really glad I was able to be here.

24:57

I'm glad that Dr. Moses pushed me to come

25:00

as she always does.

25:03

That is my mentor

25:04

and I'm just honored

25:06

to be here with all of these wonderful people,

25:08

wonderful people who were able to make it possible

25:11

for me to go to NC State.

25:13

Thank you.

25:15

(audience applause)

25:16

Rodney

And now for the moment,

25:23

we've all been waiting for.

25:24

I'm going to ask four individuals to come forward.

25:26

Ms. Eleanor Nunn,

25:28

Dr. David Forbes,

25:32

Mr. Chuck McDugh,

25:36

(audience cheers and applause)

25:39

and Ms. Connie Curry.

25:44

(audience cheers and applause)

25:46

And we're going to make our way

25:51

to the marker for the unveiling.

25:52

(audience conversations)

25:55

-

Here he is over there.

26:33

Julian, stand up over there so he can take a picture.

26:34

(audience conversations)

26:37

Audience Member

IS the words on both sides the same?

26:42

-

Alright, y'all.

26:44

One, two, three.

26:45

(audience cheers and applause)

26:51

Audience Member

Alright!

26:53

Man In Audience

You have to do it again.

26:54

You have to do it again.

26:57

Do it again.

26:59

♪ We have been 'buked ♪

27:06

♪ And we've been scorned ♪

27:08

♪ We've been talked about ♪

27:15

♪ Sure's you're born ♪

27:21

♪ But we'll never ♪

27:29

♪ Turn back ♪

27:36

♪ No, we'll never ♪

27:41

♪ Turn back ♪

27:47

♪ Until we've ♪

27:55

♪ All ♪

27:59

♪ Been free ♪

28:02

♪ And we have ♪

28:06

♪ Equality ♪

28:11

♪ We have walked ♪

28:21

♪ The shadow of death ♪

28:26

♪ We had to walk ♪

28:32

♪ All by ourselves ♪

28:36

♪ But we'll never ♪

28:44

♪ Turn back ♪

28:51

♪ No, we'll never ♪

28:55

♪ Turn back ♪

29:00

♪ Until we all ♪

29:07

♪ Been free ♪

29:13

♪ And we'll have ♪

29:17

♪ Equality ♪

29:21

♪ We have hung our ♪

29:29

♪ Heads and cried ♪

29:35

♪ Cried for those like ♪

29:40

♪ Lee who died ♪

29:45

♪ Died for you ♪

29:51

♪ And died for me ♪

29:55

♪ Died for the cause of ♪

30:01

♪ Equality ♪

30:05

♪ But we'll never ♪

30:12

♪ Turn back ♪

30:17

♪ No, we'll never ♪

30:21

♪ Turn back ♪

30:26

♪ Until we've all ♪

30:31

♪ Been free ♪

30:37

♪ And we have ♪

30:41

♪ Equality ♪

30:45

♪ And we'll have ♪

30:52

♪ Equality ♪

30:56

(audience shouting and applauding)

31:05

Man In Audience

We did it!

31:19

(audience conversations)

31:22

-

Well we're gonna have some more of these so,

31:44

as we go along.

31:46

In the next 25 years, a lot of these.

31:47

-

Long gone.

31:51

-

Yeah, took a long time.

31:52

(man laughs)

31:54

-

Yes.

31:59

-

It's funny,

32:05

it says Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee

32:06

but it doesn't say SNCC, S.N.C.C.,

32:08

but I guess everybody that knows

32:11

Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, SNCC, right?

32:13

And that S.N.C.C. is SNCC.

32:17

-

[Man In White Shirt] That is interesting.

32:19

-

Yeah.

32:21

-

There's a little place there, you could write SNCC

32:23

on a black bench in marker.

32:27

-

Yeah, SNCC, pronounced Snick, S.N.I.C.K.

32:29

(audience conversations)

32:35

-

That's right.

32:58

-

To come here.

-

That's why we're celebrating her too.

32:59

You know, this a part of a trinity.

33:01

-

Absolutely.

33:02

-

It did, man.

-

Absolutely, absolutely.

33:03

(audience conversations)

33:06

-

Well I think so.

33:41

I think it's a mistake to keep letting the used scipt.

33:42

And because it's not gonna be told from the outside.

33:47

-

No.

33:49

-

It's just begun to be told

from the inside.

33:50

-

Yeah.

-

But I think it's being told now.

33:52

-

Yeah.

33:54

-

You know,

that's my sense and then the whole field operation

33:56

gets because (woman laughs).

33:59

-

Well, we're gonna interview you.

34:05

-

Okay, but it's a very different perspective.

34:07

-

I know, yeah, sure is.

34:09

(overlapping conversations)

34:12

-

Goes back to crucifixion

34:18

and we left on Sunday night

34:20

because Resurrection night, we respect it ourselves,

34:22

our moving.

34:24

Everything else, so it's just a crazy day, I think

34:24

-

Did you have any idea then?

34:29

That SNCC would be such a powerful station

34:31

-

No.

34:35

(overlapping conversations)

34:36

-

Here you go, he's getting the sign.

35:25

He's got the sign.

35:27

(overlapping conversations)

35:29

-

You got it?

35:41

Photographer

Up to the sign.

35:42

-

Up to the sign?

35:43

Photographer

At the sign, alright, everybody hold it.

35:44

Hold it.

35:46

-

You got it?

-

He's getting creative now.

35:47

-

Didn't I tell you to spend 35 bucks.

35:50

(men laughing)

35:52

And get a new camera.

35:54

Aw man.

35:59

(overlapping conversation)

36:00

(audience laughter)

36:26

Audience Member

Keep your eyes on the prize.

36:29

Photographer

Throw your hands up high

36:31

with your fingers now.

36:32

-

My finger then marked me just fine.

36:35

(men laugh)

36:37

That ain't what I ended.

36:40

-

Oh, towards them?

36:41

Photographer

Maria, move your head over

36:43

so I can see Cleve.

36:45

-

It wasn't my fingers that got me here.

36:49

Photographer

Thank you.

36:52

(audience laughter)

36:53

(overlapping conversations)

36:58

♪ They say in Mississippi ♪

37:21

♪ No neutrals have I met ♪

37:23

♪ You either be a freedom fighter ♪

37:26

♪ Or a Tom for Ross Barnett ♪

37:29

♪ Well, which side are you on boys ♪

37:31

♪ Which side are you on ♪

37:35

♪ Everybody sing ♪

37:37

♪ Which side are you on boy ♪

37:38

♪ Which side are you on ♪

37:40

-

A singing moment among the Freedom singers

37:46

(group laughs)

37:49

♪ They say in Hinds County ♪

37:50

♪ No neutrals have we met ♪

37:53

-

We already did that one.

37:55

♪ You either be a freedom fighter ♪

37:56

♪ Or a Tom for Ross Barnett ♪

37:58

♪ Oh, which side are you on, boy ♪

38:00

♪ Which side are you on ♪

38:04

♪ Everybody, which side are you on, boy ♪

38:06

♪ Which side are you on ♪

38:10

♪ Don't tom' for Mister Charlie ♪

38:13

♪ Don't listen to his lies ♪

38:15

♪ Us colored folks haven't got a chance ♪

38:18

♪ Unless we organize ♪

38:21

♪ Well, which side are you on boy ♪

38:23

♪ Which side are you on ♪

38:27

♪ Everybody, which side are you on ♪

38:29

♪ Which side are you on ♪

38:33

♪ They tell me in Mississippi ♪

38:35

♪ No neutral have we met ♪

38:37

♪ You either be a freedom fighter ♪

38:40

♪ Or a Tom for Ross Barnett ♪

38:43

♪ Oh, which side are you on ♪

38:46

♪ Which side are you on ♪

38:49

♪ Everybody, which side are you on, boy ♪

38:52

♪ Which side are you on ♪

38:55

♪ I remember a police waggin' a big red line to dry ♪

38:58

♪ If you fight for freedom, ♪

39:03

♪ It'll take you for a ride ♪

39:06

♪ Oh which side are you on boy ♪

39:09

♪ Which side you on ♪

39:12

♪ Everybody, which side are you on boy ♪

39:14

♪ Which side are you on ♪

39:18

♪ My daddy was a Freedom Fighter ♪

39:21

♪ And I'm his faithful son ♪

39:23

♪ I'll stick to the Freedom Fight until every battle is won ♪

39:26

♪ Amen, yeah ♪

39:31

♪ Which side are you on boy ♪

39:32

♪ Which side are you on ♪

39:34

♪ Everybody, which side are you on, boy ♪

39:36

♪ Which side are you on ♪

39:40

♪ Mother, she done told me up on her dying bed ♪

39:41

♪ If my son don't get his freedom now ♪

39:48

♪ I'd rather see him dead ♪

39:51

♪ Everybody, which side are you on boy ♪

39:53

♪ Which side you on ♪

39:57

♪ Everybody singing, which side are you on boy ♪

39:59

♪ Which side are you on ♪

40:03

♪ In the year 2000, what do you have to give ♪

40:06

♪ Will you be a Freedom Fighter ♪

40:11

♪ Or a Black conservative ♪

40:14

♪ Which side are you on boy ♪

40:17

♪ Which side are you on ♪

40:20

♪ Everybody, which side are you on boy ♪

40:22

♪ Which side are you on ♪

40:26

♪ Everybody singing, which side are you on boy ♪

40:28

♪ Which side are you on ♪

40:31

♪ Everybody singin', which side are you on boy ♪

40:33

♪ Which side are you on ♪

40:37

♪ Everybody singin', which side are you on boy ♪

40:39

♪ Which side are you on ♪

40:44

-

Yeah.

40:51

♪ The Student Nonviolent ♪

40:57

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

41:01

♪ Little child sit on my knee ♪

41:07

♪ Let me tell you how we got free ♪

41:10

♪ Little child, sit on my knee ♪

41:13

♪ Let me tell you how we got free ♪

41:15

♪ It all started ♪

41:19

♪ A long time ago ♪

41:20

♪ In 1960 ♪

41:22

♪ It was a Student Nonviolent ♪

41:25

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

41:29

♪ It was the Student Nonviolent ♪

41:32

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

41:39

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

41:42

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

41:44

♪ It all started in a town letter ♪

41:48

♪ In city of Greensboro ♪

41:51

♪ Was a student from AnT ♪

41:55

♪ Decided to stop the white man's terror ♪

41:58

♪ Who stopped the terror? ♪

42:01

♪ The Student Nonviolent ♪

42:03

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

42:06

♪ It was the ♪

42:09

♪ Student Nonviolent ♪

42:10

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

42:16

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

42:19

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

42:21

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

42:25

♪ In 1960, times were mighty hard ♪

42:29

♪ A nonviolent man ♪

42:36

♪ His name was Charles Sherrod ♪

42:38

♪ Of the Student Nonviolent ♪

42:40

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

42:44

♪ It was the ♪

42:47

♪ Student Nonviolent ♪

42:48

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

42:54

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

42:58

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

43:00

♪ Freedom, Freedom ♪

43:04

♪ And they gonna remember their name ♪

43:06

♪ Freedom, freedom, ♪

43:10

♪ His name was James Forman of the ♪

43:13

♪ Student Nonviolent ♪

43:17

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

43:20

♪ It was the ♪

43:23

♪ Student Nonviolent ♪

43:24

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

43:30

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

43:33

♪ It was the ♪

43:35

♪ Student Nonviolent ♪

43:36

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

43:39

♪ It was the ♪

43:42

♪ Student Nonviolent ♪

43:43

♪ Coordinating Committee ♪

43:49

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

43:52

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

43:55

♪ Do, do, do, do ♪

43:58

(overlapping conversations)

44:01

♪ We went down to the Peach tree manor ♪

44:23

♪ To see Oginga Odinga ♪

44:27

♪ The police said, what's the matter ♪

44:32

♪ To see Oginga Odinga ♪

44:36

♪ Police he look mighty hard ♪

44:39

♪ At Oginga Odinga ♪

44:43

♪ He got scared cause he was an ex-Mau-Mau ♪

44:46

♪ To see Ogingo Odinga ♪

44:50

♪ Ogingo Odinga Ogingo Odinga Ogingo Odinga of Kenya ♪

44:52

♪ Ogingo Odinga Ogingo Odinga Ogingo Odinga of Kenya ♪

44:59

♪ Oh, oh, ooh ♪

45:05

♪ Oh, oh, ooh ♪

45:11

♪ Freedom now ♪

45:17

♪ Freedom now ♪

45:24

♪ Oginga say look-a here, ♪

45:31

♪ What's going on down in Selma ♪

45:34

♪ If you white folks don't straighten up, ♪

45:37

♪ I'm gonna call Jomo Kenyata ♪

45:40

♪ Ogingo Odingo, Ogingo Odinga Ogingo Odinga of Kenya ♪

45:42

♪ Ogingo Odingo Ogingo Odinga Ogingo Odinga of Kenya ♪

45:49

♪ Oh, hu, hu ♪

45:54

♪ Hu, hu ♪

45:56

♪ You, hu, hu ♪

46:00

♪ Hu, hu ♪

46:04

♪ Freedom now ♪

46:06

♪ Freedom now ♪

46:13

♪ Well the white folk down in Mississippi ♪

46:19

♪ They knock you on your rump ♪

46:22

♪ And if you holler Freedom, ♪

46:25

♪ You'll wind up in the goddamn slump ♪

46:28

♪ Ogingo Odingo, Ogingo Odinga Ogingo Odinga of Kenya ♪

46:32

♪ Ogingo Odingo, Ogingo Odinga Ogingo Odinga of Kenya ♪

46:37

♪ Oh, hu, hu ♪

46:42

♪ Hu, hu ♪

46:45

♪ Oh, hu, hu ♪

46:48

♪ Hu, hu ♪

46:51

♪ Freedom now ♪

46:54

♪ Freedom now ♪

47:00

(group shouting)

47:07

(overlapping conversations)

47:11

All

Call the name.

47:30

♪ Ain't gonna let nobody ♪

47:38

♪ Turn me round ♪

47:41

♪ Turn me round ♪

47:43

♪ Turn me round ♪

47:45

♪ Ain't gonna let nobody ♪

47:48

♪ Turn me round ♪

47:50

♪ I'm gonna keep on walking ♪

47:52

♪ I'm gonna keep on talking ♪

47:54

♪ Marchin up to freedom land ♪

47:57

♪ Ain't gonna let injustice ♪

48:01

♪ Turn me round ♪

48:04

♪ Turn me round ♪

48:06

♪ Turn me round ♪

48:08

♪ Ain't gonna let injustice ♪

48:09

♪ Turn me round ♪

48:12

♪ I'm gonna keep on walking ♪

48:14

♪ Keep on talking ♪

48:16

♪ Marching up the freedom land ♪

48:18

♪ Ain't gonna let no jailhouse ♪

48:22

♪ Turn me round ♪

48:25

♪ Turn me round ♪

48:27

♪ Turn me round ♪

48:29

♪ Ain't gonna let no jailhouse ♪

48:31

♪ Turn me round ♪

48:33

♪ I'm gonna keep on walking ♪

48:35

♪ Keep on talking ♪

48:37

♪ Marching up to freedom land ♪

48:39

♪ So don't you let nobody ♪

48:43

♪ Turn you around ♪

48:46

♪ Turn you around ♪

48:48

♪ Turn you round ♪

48:50

♪ Don't you let nobody ♪

48:52

♪ Turn you round ♪

48:54

♪ You gotta keep on walking ♪

48:56

♪ You gotta keep on talking ♪

48:58

♪ Marching up to freedom land ♪

49:00

♪ Don't you let no dog ♪

49:03

♪ Turn you round ♪

49:07

♪ Turn you round ♪

49:09

♪ Turn you round ♪

49:11

♪ Don't you let no dogs ♪

49:13

♪ Turn you round ♪

49:15

♪ You gotta keep on walking ♪

49:17

♪ Keep on talking ♪

49:19

♪ Marching up to freedom land ♪

49:21

♪ Don't you let no ♪

49:25

♪ Turn me round ♪

49:28

♪ Turn me round ♪

49:30

♪ Turn me round ♪

49:31

♪ Don't you let no ♪

49:33

♪ Turn you round ♪

49:35

♪ You gotta keep on walking ♪

49:37

♪ Keep on talking ♪

49:40

♪ Marching up to freedom land ♪

49:41

(group cheering and clapping)

49:50

Woman

You know what, as we go back

49:55

to our destination, let us sing and march.

49:57

Right to our destination.

50:00

This may be our last lunch together.

50:02

Let's go march together and sing.

50:04

(overlapping conversations)

50:07

(distant singing)

50:37

♪ Deep in my heart, ♪

51:00

♪ I do believe ♪

51:06

♪ We shall overcome ♪

51:13

♪ Someday ♪

51:18

♪ We are not afraid ♪

51:22

♪ We are not afraid ♪

51:28

♪ We are not afraid ♪

51:35

♪ Today ♪

51:40

♪ Oh, deep in my heart ♪

51:46

♪ I do believe ♪

51:54

(distant singing)

51:59

-

I'll get it for you and send it to you.

52:05

Have you gotten that one here?

52:08

Oh okay, I'll get it and send it to you.

52:10

But you call me and I'll get it to you.

52:14

♪ Oh deep in my heart ♪

52:34

♪ I know that I do believe ♪

52:41

♪ We shall overcome someday ♪

52:48

♪ We shall overcome ♪

52:57

♪ We shall overcome ♪

53:03

♪ We shall overcome someday ♪

53:10

♪ Deep in my heart ♪

53:22

♪ I do believe ♪

53:29

♪ we shall overcome someday ♪

53:35

♪ we shall overcome one more time ♪

53:42

♪ We shall overcome ♪

53:45

♪ We shall overcome ♪

53:51

♪ We shall overcome someday ♪

53:57

♪ Deep in my heart ♪

54:09

♪ I do believe ♪

54:15

♪ We shall overcome someday ♪

54:21

(group cheering and clapping)

54:30

(overlapping conversations)

54:35

-

Save the East Hampton Five.

55:37

(group laughs)

55:39

Christy, bring this ex-hellsmas

55:42

-

What are we doing now?

55:49

You guys making nice?

55:50

John Lewis?

55:54

What'd you say, where's John Lewis?

55:55

(overlapping conversations)

55:57

-

Maybe it's gonna start at 7 o'clock.

56:26

Do you wanna come back?

56:32

-

I don't wanna be back, why what happens tonight?

56:34

-

Well, it's some students.

56:37

-

No, I don't care about that.

56:39

(overlapping conversations)

56:40

-

Sherman, now, do you have the sign.

58:06

You got the sign over our heads?

58:09

-

That's right.

58:12

-

Make sure you get all of us and the sign.

58:13

-

Can you all slide over?

58:16

Be careful.

58:19

-

There you go.

58:21

Now that's how you fix it.

58:22

-

[Man With Glasses] That's right.

58:24

-

Get another one to be sure you got it.

58:26

Move your paper.

58:29

-

Uh oh, your paper.

58:29

-

We don't want that.

58:30

(woman laughs)

58:31

-

You're all making Sherman nervous.

58:34

-

Tell Walter to move.

58:37

-

Take it.

58:40

(overlapping conversations)

58:42

Tapes 10 and 11, 2000 April

Transcript

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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