Tape 6, 2000 April / Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee 40th anniversary conference videocassette tapes, 2000 / Duke Digital Repository

-

Don't turn off the lights, please.

0:00

(laughter)

0:02

Before I introduce Brother Sherrod,

0:16

I want to welcome you all to the Shaw campus,

0:20

and the 40th reunion of the

0:27

Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee.

0:31

(crowd applauds)

0:34

When we met here,

0:40

Hello, Guy! And Candy.

0:45

40 years ago, when I came from Orangeburg,

0:49

South Carolina State, at an invitation

0:53

of Miss Ella Baker to attend a conference

0:57

with Dr. Martin Luther King.

1:02

We went to our campus advisor,

1:05

Reverend McCullum in Orangeburg,

1:10

and asked whether or not we should go.

1:13

Reverend McCullum said,

1:17

"I don't know about Luther King,

1:19

but if Ella Baker said go,

1:23

there's no question about whether

1:25

it's going to be a wonderful time."

1:27

(crowd applauds)

1:30

And we came here and started the seeds

1:33

of the beloved community,

1:36

and found one of the most tremendous experiences

1:40

that any of us ever had,

1:45

because we found that we chose to love each other

1:48

and care for each other,

1:52

and it was the greatest love and friendships

1:53

that we've ever known.

1:56

Some of us have been in and out of various marriages

1:58

(laughter)

2:02

and unions, and still know that the 'snick' family

2:05

was the greatest family we ever had.

2:09

(crowd applauds)

2:13

Because we chose to love each other.

2:15

And now we've chosen to come back.

2:17

It is so wonderful to see you all here,

2:19

because Lord knows, we didn't know that we would be here,

2:23

and the many times we sang "This May Be the Last Time,"

2:29

this may be the last time,

2:33

it may be the last time,

2:37

Crowd

I don't know.

2:39

-

I just don't know.

2:40

But now, while we're here,

2:42

let us celebrate the love and caring and respect

2:44

that we have for each other.

2:48

The old wounds and differences,

2:50

let us put aside and realize that we came together

2:57

and chose to be together and struggle together

3:01

and laugh together and sing together

3:05

and love one another.

3:09

And let us celebrate that,

3:11

let us remember what keeps us, and kept us, together,

3:12

and forget about those times that tore us apart.

3:17

You know, when we were doing that movie,

3:24

"Freedom Song," I remember some of the outside observers

3:31

I remember the director said this strange thing.

3:36

Said I came here to do this movie,

3:43

and found a community of people,

3:46

people who didn't even like each other loved each other.

3:48

(laughter)

3:53

And that love of each other

3:54

is what held us together all these years.

3:57

And let us keep that foremost in our mind

4:01

as we spend these few days deliberating

4:02

and exchanging ideas and plans for the future.

4:06

Now, 40 years ago when I came here,

4:12

one of the first people I met

4:18

was a young ministerial student.

4:19

There were all these,

4:22

I thought the whole future of the church

4:24

was gathered here in Raleigh,

4:28

and it was in the fine hands,

4:32

because one of the first young ministerial students I met,

4:34

before I met all those Nashville people,

4:38

were the Virginia people, and Charles Sherrod

4:41

was the first person I met from another campus,

4:46

and of course was one of the founding members of 'snick',

4:52

and has been in the storm all these many years.

4:57

Sherrod was one person who went to Albany

5:02

and is still there.

5:10

I saw Sherrod about three years ago

5:13

at the dedication of the Albany Civil Rights Museum.

5:15

And he said, "Mr. Chairman, can I come back to Atlanta now?"

5:20

And I said, "Brother, the struggle is continuing down here,

5:26

and you are doing a wonderful job."

5:30

Sherrod is going to lead us in a devotion.

5:33

Charles?

5:38

Charles

Thank you.

5:39

(crowd applauds)

5:40

Charles

You know I can't do anything easy.

5:45

From this pew, I'm asking you to make a circle from here.

5:49

I'm asking everybody in the back

5:56

to join hands from this pew.

5:58

It'll be a circle that comes all the way around the church.

6:01

Will you do that right now?

6:06

Stand up.

6:07

From this pew.

6:10

If you don't feel like standing up, we'll join hands.

6:14

(people talking quietly)

6:21

(people talking quietly)

6:27

Okay, y'all get in the circle.

6:43

(laughter)

6:44

They're reorganizing.

6:46

We always reorganize.

6:50

And it's no problem.

6:53

We're going to hold hands, yeah.

7:01

I have one main message.

7:09

It's to pass the torch.

7:16

Pass the torch.

7:21

We must pass the torch.

7:23

We're going to start by singing

7:26

"Let us Break Bread Together."

7:30

Marshall?

7:33

Matthew?

7:35

We can do it from here.

7:38

♪ Let us break bread together ♪

7:42

♪ On our knees, on our knees ♪

7:51

♪ Let us break bread together ♪

7:59

♪ On our knees, on our knees ♪

8:07

♪ When we've fallen on our knees, ♪

8:15

♪ With our face to the rising sun, ♪

8:22

♪ Oh Lord, have mercy on me ♪

8:30

♪ On me. ♪

8:41

Let's hum.

8:45

(crowd hums)

8:47

-

Great God of the universe,

8:57

you are more than everything that is,

9:00

yet you are in everything that is.

9:02

You are beyond all our imaginations,

9:05

beyond our definitions,

9:09

beyond our creeds,

9:11

beyond our images,

9:12

and yet, you who have invented yourself

9:13

as image in each of us gathered here,

9:15

and every human being across the face of the Earth.

9:18

We're grateful for your grace,

9:21

for we know our very lives are a sign of your presence

9:25

and a sign of grace.

9:29

We have not made ourselves.

9:31

We did not make the historic and creative circumstances

9:34

in which many of us found ourselves

9:38

in the 1950s and the 1960s,

9:40

but you have brought us through all of them,

9:43

and we know that we are far better people because of it,

9:46

and we know that this nation,

9:48

though it has not yet recognized the fact,

9:50

is a far better nation because of those struggles

9:53

of the '60s and '70s.

9:55

We're grateful that we can be here

10:00

for this 40th gathering

10:02

of the Student Conference at Shaw University

10:04

Easter weekend, 1960.

10:07

Now help us to bend our energies together

10:10

during these days.

10:13

To think together, to talk together,

10:18

to argue, to quarrel,

10:20

but above all, to be called in deep love and compassion

10:21

one for another, for all the human family.

10:27

Make us deeply aware of the nearly 1.2 billion people

10:30

around our world who are on

10:37

the very edge of extinction daily.

10:39

Make us aware of the great numbers of people who hurt

10:44

from racism and sexism,

10:47

from violence and fear,

10:50

and brokenness all around us in this land.

10:52

Make us aware that we who are comfortable

10:56

have a responsibility to keep struggling

10:58

and keep reaching out,

11:01

until in fact we can turn this nation around.

11:04

Now guide us, teach us, instruct us,

11:08

give us new insight,

11:12

reinforce the image of a beloved community,

11:15

of a just and holy land

11:17

as we gather, so that all that we do and say and think,

11:20

and all of our activities together

11:23

will indeed strengthen each of us

11:26

and strengthen the cause of truth and beauty

11:28

in our nation.

11:31

We pray this boldly

11:33

in your extraordinary spirit.

11:35

Amen.

11:38

-

Praise God.

11:39

♪ Let us praise God together ♪

11:41

♪ One our knees, on our knees ♪

11:48

♪ Let us praise God together ♪

11:55

♪ On our knees, on our knees ♪

12:02

♪ When we fall on our knees ♪

12:08

♪ With our face to the rising sun ♪

12:15

♪ Oh Lord, have mercy on me ♪

12:21

The death angel had come and gone,

12:35

and Moses called the elders

12:41

and said these words.

12:45

-

A reading from Exodus, verses 21 through 27.

12:54

Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel

13:01

and said unto them,

13:04

"Draw out and take you a lamb

13:06

"according to your families,

13:08

"and kill the passover.

13:10

"And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop

13:13

"and dip it in the blood that is in the basin,

13:15

"and strike the lintel and two sideposts

13:18

with the blood that is in the basin.

13:21

"And none of you shall go out the door of his house

13:25

"until the morning,

13:28

"for the Lord will pass through

13:30

"to smite the Egyptians,

13:33

"and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel,

13:35

"and on the two sideposts,

13:38

"the Lord will pass over the door,

13:40

"and will not suffer the destroyer to come in

13:42

"unto your house to smite you.

13:45

"And you shall observe this thing for an ordinance

13:49

"to thee, and to they sons, forever.

13:53

"And it shall come to pass

13:57

"when ye be in the land which the Lord will give you,

13:59

"according, as he has promised,

14:02

"that ye shall keep this service.

14:05

"And it shall come to pass when your children

14:09

"say unto you, what mean ye by this service?

14:12

"that you shall say it is the sacrifice

14:17

"of the Lord's passover,

14:20

"who passed over the houses

14:23

"of the children of Israel in Egypt

14:24

"when he smote the Egyptians

14:27

"and delivered our houses.

14:29

And the people bowed their heads and worshiped.

14:31

The word of the Lord.

14:35

Charles

Thanks be to God.

14:38

We've come through fire.

14:42

We have come through death.

14:47

We have come to the wilderness,

14:53

and we have one task left.

14:59

All our suffering and all the things that we have done,

15:03

all the individual sacrifices that we have made,

15:07

all the places that we have gone,

15:11

all the knowledge,

15:13

all the bruises that we have,

15:15

it's time to pass the torch.

15:20

We have challenge, each one of us,

15:23

wherever we're coming from

15:26

and wherever we go to.

15:27

To grab four, five, six, or seven young people

15:31

and tell them what is of the day.

15:38

Moses had a staff in his hand,

15:45

and he threw it down and found that it was powerful,

15:48

there was power in that staff.

15:50

God gave him some power.

15:52

And each one of us has a torch in his or her hand.

15:55

We can pass that torch if we but will.

16:01

All the knowledge that we've got.

16:05

There's no reason for this young man,

16:07

and those young ladies there,

16:10

to make the same mistakes that we did.

16:13

We've got something to give

16:17

that's beneficial, that's beautiful,

16:20

that's 'snickish',

16:23

(laughter)

16:26

that's peculiar to us.

16:28

And somehow we must find a way to pass it on.

16:31

That way, it can live.

16:36

As it lived within us.

16:39

Doesn't it bring back memories

16:40

that the last song that we're going to sing

16:42

is going to be "This May Be the Last Time"?

16:44

But isn't it?

16:50

The power we have received,

16:53

we must openly give,

16:57

and be proud to give.

17:01

See, if you don't give something,

17:04

well I don't know if he or she's going to take it or not.

17:05

I don't know how they're going to think about me.

17:10

I don't know, I'm old and foggy, I don't think they...

17:12

No, we've got something!

17:15

And we know we've got something.

17:19

Young boy, come here.

17:23

Young girl, come here.

17:26

I've got something for you.

17:27

I want to speak with you just a few moments.

17:29

You hearing that conference down there?

17:33

I need to go to that conference if I hear about it.

17:37

I need to say something to you that comes from my heart.

17:40

Can I speak to you from the bottom of my heart?

17:44

Can I ask you to drop out of this society?

17:47

Can I ask you to give up all the golden apples

17:51

they dangle before you

17:54

for just a short time in your life?

17:56

Knowing that if you drop out,

17:59

you never go back.

18:02

'Cause there's something beautiful.

18:06

When they can't touch you

18:09

with a job,

18:12

when they can't touch you with a material thing,

18:15

then you are free.

18:19

But only then will you ever be free

18:22

in your whole life.

18:25

And that's what we can offer you,

18:28

because there was one time in the history of our nation

18:31

that a free people roamed these surroundings.

18:34

And they weren't afraid of nothing!

18:39

Not life, not death.

18:43

Anything under the Earth, or anything in the ocean,

18:45

or above the Earth, or anywhere, nothing!

18:49

We weren't afraid of it.

18:53

And we want to give you that spirit.

18:57

Pass it on to free you

19:02

like we one time were free.

19:04

This may be the last time.

19:09

(congregation humming)

19:18

♪ This may be the last time ♪

19:21

♪ This may be the last time ♪

19:24

♪ This may be the last time ♪

19:30

♪ May be the last time I don't know ♪

19:36

-

♪ Well, this may be the last time we pray together ♪

19:42

♪ May be the last time, ♪

19:46

♪ I don't know ♪

19:49

-

♪ Yes, this may be the last time we pray together ♪

19:51

♪ May be the last time, ♪

19:57

♪ I don't know ♪

20:00

♪ This may be the last time ♪

20:02

♪ This may be the last time ♪

20:08

♪ This may be the last time ♪

20:13

♪ May be the last time ♪

20:19

♪ I don't know ♪

20:21

Charles

♪ Well, this may be the last time ♪

20:23

♪ We clap together ♪

20:26

Congregation

♪ May be the last time, ♪

20:29

♪ I don't know ♪

20:31

Charles

♪ Well, this may be the last time ♪

20:33

♪ We clap together ♪

20:36

♪ - [Congregation] ♪ May be the last time, ♪

20:39

♪ I don't know ♪

20:41

♪ This may be the last time ♪

20:44

♪ This may be the last time ♪

20:49

♪ This may be the last time ♪

20:54

♪ May be the last time, ♪

20:59

♪ I don't know ♪

21:01

(congregation hums)

21:04

Oh, Father God,

21:27

we stretch our arms to thee.

21:29

No other help we know.

21:32

Oh, Father, touch the hearts

21:36

of our young people.

21:38

Give them the strength and the spirit to go forth,

21:41

out of the wilderness, into the world

21:46

confronting whatever they have to confront,

21:49

being whatever they have to be,

21:54

living their life whatever they have to live,

21:59

and finding peace and love.

22:06

In the name of our Father God, we pray.

22:11

Amen.

22:14

(crowd applauds)

22:18

(people talking quietly)

22:26

(people talking quietly)

22:38

Woman

Glory, glory!

22:49

(people talking)

23:00

-

If you all would

23:05

if you all would get seated, I know you don't...

23:11

Curtis, I was just saying I know y'all don't move

23:16

as rapidly to your places nowadays as you once did.

23:19

(laughs)

23:23

Charlie Jones.

23:25

We're going to, as soon as everybody gets situated,

23:31

we are about to start the panels and the program.

23:52

Our adored advisor, Anne Braden.

24:03

Timothy Lynnell Jenkins.

24:20

Talk about a blast from the past.

24:22

(people talking quietly)

24:24

You all will see each other as we go along.

24:32

Martha Norman.

24:37

Now we can begin.

24:40

(laughter)

24:41

(crowd applauds)

24:42

40 years ago.

24:51

40 years ago is when we can to this campus.

24:54

I remember there were all these marvelous people,

24:58

people who were already prepared

25:01

for the nonviolent revolution for years before that,

25:03

and Jim Lawson had prepared the people from Nashville

25:07

to start nonviolent demonstrations and sit-ins

25:11

and it was this nascent of history.

25:16

However, on February 1st 1960, in Greensboro,

25:19

four freshman sat down and started a modern revolution.

25:24

Jim was there, and here, Anne Braden was here,

25:32

Connie Curry was here, Lonnie King was here,

25:38

Sherrod was here, I was here,

25:41

and we started to talk.

25:44

Charlie Jones, come up from Johnson C. Smith,

25:47

and we started to meet together.

25:51

Guy Carawan started bringing us the songs

25:53

that became the basis of sustaining us

25:56

through that long struggle.

26:01

John Robert Zellner, we hired our first white boy.

26:06

(laughter)

26:11

(crowd applauds)

26:14

I said, we could not have gotten a more perfect one,

26:17

(laughter)

26:21

who blended in with the locals.

26:23

Three generations of Klan membership

26:26

was broken by John Robert Zellner.

26:30

(crowd laughs and applauds)

26:32

I want you all to know...

26:37

But you know, he was named after Bob Jones.

26:45

(laughter)

26:48

True story.

26:50

Get him aside, he'll tell you.

26:52

He was named after Bob Jones,

26:54

of Bob Jones University, yes he was.

26:56

But I don't want to wander off,

27:01

I'll bring us back.

27:04

And to move these panels along,

27:08

that's going to be done by Ivanhoe Donaldson,

27:13

who'll be moderating today.

27:17

Ivanhoe?

27:19

(crowds applauds)

27:23

Thank you, Mr. Chairman,

27:28

Charles Frederick McDew.

27:29

(laughter)

27:31

I enjoyed your movie.

27:32

It was indeed a pleasure.

27:34

You know, first I want to thank

27:37

the conveners of this conference,

27:40

honoring Ella Baker and talking about 'snick'.

27:44

I'm sure that perhaps when putting this together

27:49

didn't think they'd be overwhelmed

27:53

by this many 'snick' people.

27:55

But I have to tell you that, for us,

27:57

this is really indeed a significant commitment statement,

27:58

because probably many of us have never had an opportunity

28:03

to truly honor Miss Ella Baker,

28:07

you know, to recognize her greatness,

28:10

to thank her for being there for us.

28:13

We talked yesterday about family and commitment

28:16

and who we are.

28:20

Well, the unique thing about Ella Baker

28:21

is that the average 'snick' person in this room today,

28:25

she was our age when she convened this meeting in 1960.

28:29

Maybe she was year or two older than the majority of us.

28:33

But she was a lady in her late 50s

28:37

at that point in time.

28:39

So you're indeed talking about a significant person.

28:41

At the end of the last century,

28:44

or whatever you want to view it,

28:47

the last decade,

28:48

there were all these sort of

28:49

who was the greatest athlete,

28:51

and who was the greatest American,

28:52

and who was the greatest man,

28:54

and who was the greatest woman,

28:56

and who was the greatest intellectual,

28:57

and the hundred greatest artists.

28:59

You know, I used to go through this,

29:01

and I kinda got tired of those lists.

29:03

But I would kind of peek through them

29:04

to see if there was someone there that I agreed with.

29:06

You know, and indeed

29:09

I think that when you talk about Ella Baker,

29:13

you're indeed talking about someone

29:16

who was truly a giant of the 20th century.

29:18

This is a person who defined that century,

29:21

and I think that when we talk about her

29:25

in terms of civil rights,

29:27

we're really limiting her.

29:29

She was a true 20th century champion

29:30

of human justice and human rights.

29:34

She ranked there with DuBois,

29:36

and with everybody else.

29:38

And 'snick', and the MFDP were, in a way,

29:40

the last of her legacies.

29:43

Because this was a political activist in the '20s

29:46

the '30s, the '40s, the '50s, the '60s,

29:49

and the '70s, activist even in her death in the '80s.

29:54

So we have to understand this person.

29:57

She was not only the convener,

30:01

and therefore in some ways the founder

30:04

of what become 'snick',

30:10

by convening this conference

30:12

over Easter weekend 40 years ago,

30:13

she was also the director of branches

30:16

for the NAACP in the '40s,

30:18

a black woman, organizing throughout the South,

30:21

traveling in buses that were not desegregated yet

30:24

to organize these chapters.

30:28

She was with the NAACP.

30:30

She was with the Y.

30:32

Ella even did a tour of duty with the Urban League.

30:35

I mean, this was a phenomenal human being,

30:40

and we are fortunate, in many ways,

30:44

to have shared in her life.

30:48

Now, the one thing you can always say about her

30:52

was she had an enormous amount of patience,

30:55

you know, because there she was,

30:58

in her late 50s, and she was patient

31:01

with these crazy 18, 19, 20-year-olds,

31:03

we saw Bob Moses as a senior citizen,

31:06

(laughter)

31:08

and I think Bob was 26 or 27 at the time,

31:09

you know, so this panel will begin,

31:11

or continue on, in some ways,

31:16

the process of honoring this great person,

31:18

indeed, and when you think of the 20th century,

31:21

those of you who weren't in 'snick',

31:25

you have to realize that any list that doesn't include

31:27

the name Ella Jo Baker is a list that just isn't accurate.

31:30

It's a list that just isn't right.

31:35

'Cause she indeed was a major American personality.

31:37

And to say that, recognizing that she was a woman,

31:42

and had to come through all of what that meant

31:45

in indeed phenomenal, and a black woman.

31:49

I remember a story that Anne Braden told Smithsonian

31:52

a few years ago, where she talked about

31:55

what it was like to be in Alabama growing up,

31:57

and going to get a job as a newspaper reporter,

32:00

50 years ago (laughs),

32:05

actually longer than that,

32:08

and you know,

32:10

they didn't understand what this white woman,

32:12

why she didn't go home and have babies

32:16

and do the things that you should do

32:19

in America at that point in time.

32:21

This was a contemporary of Ella Baker.

32:23

But think of Ella Baker in that context.

32:27

And we recognize how truly profound a person she was,

32:30

and how fortunate an organization we were

32:36

to have an Ella Baker as our adult advisor,

32:39

To have an Anne Braden as our adult advisor,

32:42

To have Howard Zinn as our adult advisor.

32:45

And indeed, as many in this room know,

32:48

the person who established

32:52

the beloved community,

32:56

the concept,

32:57

the frame of reference,

32:58

the preamble that gave birth to this organization,

32:59

was one Jim Lawson, you know,

33:02

who the Nashville students,

33:04

I guess in some ways,

33:07

he was their mentor, their guiding light,

33:08

their spirituality,

33:11

and was that here at the conference at this university,

33:13

for the evolving 'snick'.

33:15

Last time, this is a small world,

33:18

the last time I saw Jim Lawson,

33:20

I went to a service,

33:22

about, I don't know, I guess 15, 20 years ago now,

33:23

at least I think it was.

33:28

Maybe it was 10 years ago,

33:29

you lose track after a while.

33:30

(laughter)

33:31

A young man by the name of Walter Bremond,

33:32

the founder of the Brotherhood Crusade in L.A.

33:36

was a friend of mine,

33:40

and we were colleagues and comrades in struggle.

33:41

And there were these united black funds being started

33:44

all over the country,

33:46

and Bremond had started the Brotherhood Crusade in L.A.,

33:48

with some colleagues of his.

33:50

And I saw in the program that Jim Lawson

33:52

was doing the service.

33:54

And I said, "You know, I know a Jim Lawson,

33:57

but it couldn't be the same Jim Lawson."

33:59

And I sat in the back of the church,

34:01

and I looked up and I saw this person,

34:03

and I said "My God, that's Reverend Lawson."

34:05

And I thought how small the world is,

34:09

and how constantly we overlap,

34:10

and interface with each other wherever we go.

34:13

They say the world's only six degrees apart,

34:18

and I think in some ways it's really true.

34:20

So we have two wonderful individuals at this moment

34:23

to talk about Ella Baker this morning.

34:27

Vince Harding I understand has not joined us yet,

34:30

and when he does, I will say a few words about Vince.

34:32

So in the meantime,

34:36

so in the meantime, we're going to begin our program,

34:39

and I give you, without further commentary,

34:42

Reverend James Lawson.

34:45

(crowd applauds)

34:47

-

Let me see,

34:55

thank you very much.

34:58

(crowd applauds)

35:00

Let me--

35:01

(crowd applauds)

35:06

Well, let me also welcome you,

35:18

and the words of Charles Sherrod, and Charles McDew,

35:19

and Ivanhoe,

35:23

all words that I would emulate in various ways.

35:24

Let me, though, do one additional moment of celebration,

35:29

and that is let's see everyone who was here

35:34

Easter weekend of 1960, if you will please stand,

35:38

wherever you are.

35:40

Let's see who you are.

35:42

(crowd applauds)

35:44

And I'm going to go one step further.

35:49

I want you to remain standing,

35:52

and if you will name yourselves.

35:54

Begin in the back, yes.

35:57

Woman

(indistinct)

35:58

-

And where are you coming from?

36:00

Woman

Philadelphia.

36:01

Man

(indistinct)

36:03

I'm from Atlanta, Georgia,

36:04

but I'm coming from Columbia, Maryland.

36:05

Second Man

(indistinct)

36:09

Second Woman

Virginia Staunton,

36:14

from Birmingham, Massachusetts,

36:16

once from Virginia.

36:18

Connie Curry

I'm Connie Curry,

36:23

and I was from Atlanta, and I still am.

36:24

(laughter)

36:27

Charles Sherrod

Charles Sherrod,

36:29

I was from Petersburg, Virginia,

36:30

and now I'm from Albany, Georgia.

36:33

Charles McDew

I'm Chuck McDew,

36:36

and I was from South Carolina State College

36:38

in Orangeburg, South Carolina,

36:40

and I now live in Minneapolis,

36:41

close to the Canadian border.

36:45

(laughter)

36:46

Charles Jones

Charles Jones,

36:50

from Charlotte, North Carolina,

36:52

Johnson C. Smith University.

36:54

I'm in Charlotte now, been practicing law about 22 years,

36:57

and glad, glad, glad,

36:59

God knows I'm glad to be here.

37:02

(laughter)

37:03

Jim, God bless you, my brother.

37:04

-

Good to see you, man.

37:05

-

Thank you, you too.

37:06

And Charles McDew and I came from Masland, Ohio originally,

37:08

and we found ourselves both in the South.

37:12

Now let me see, how many people here

37:17

became part of the 'snick' movement directly,

37:21

who became either members of the committee itself,

37:24

or field people, or participated in some of the efforts

37:27

across the South?

37:31

Let's see you all stand now.

37:32

(crowd applauds)

37:33

(crowd applauds)

37:43

Woman

(indistinct)

37:47

Yes, if your children are here, let them stand up, too.

37:52

Here we go, good.

37:54

(crowd applauds)

37:56

That's passing the torch.

37:57

Alright, I'm going to try to be very, very brief,

38:01

although it's difficult to do that on an occasion like this,

38:03

perplexing in so many different ways.

38:10

I want to indicate initially that by 1960,

38:13

I was the Southern secretary

38:19

for the Fellowship of Reconciliation

38:21

was organizing full-time in the Southeast.

38:22

It's a long story, I will not go into it.

38:26

So that the workshops I did in '58, '59, '60,

38:29

in various places across the Southeast in particular

38:33

were part of the preparation for the sit-in campaign.

38:37

Everywhere I went in those days,

38:42

I carried the comic book on the Montgomery bus boycott,

38:44

which was a small but very effective tool

38:46

for showing that we had a power and a methodology

38:49

and tools that we could use to bring about social change.

38:54

I was fulfilling a part of my own dream as a college student

39:00

to one day work in the South,

39:03

where it seemed to me, all across the nation,

39:05

we needed in some ways to speed up

39:08

the process of desegregation.

39:10

To speed up the process of facing up to racism

39:13

and doing something about it.

39:15

I want to just make three major points (laughs).

39:18

That's what I'm going to to.

39:24

I've written them down,

39:25

so I'm going to try to stick with just a handful of minutes,

39:26

and will not try to expand upon them.

39:29

We should recognize that the student conference

39:31

that gathered in the Easter weekend of 1960,

39:33

April at Shaw University,

39:37

was a consequence of the sit-in movement

39:43

that had spread by the time across the country.

39:46

That sit-in movement was the first national movement

39:49

in the '60s,

39:53

and I say this for two or three reasons.

39:54

One, because there were efforts in almost every state,

39:56

with the possible exception of Mississippi,

39:59

though there were stirrings there as well.

40:05

All of the southern, south-central states

40:08

had activity going on

40:11

of some kind.

40:13

Then, in addition to that, because it was indeed

40:15

a student-centered movement,

40:17

it spread to all 50 states,

40:20

so that there were student groups everywhere,

40:24

in campuses and communities like Cincinnati, Ohio,

40:28

who joined with people in the community,

40:31

and said we must support what is going on in the South,

40:35

and they themselves then began to ask

40:39

Woolworth's in Cincinnati,

40:42

what do you mean, not serving everyone?

40:44

In Nashville, in Orangeburg, or Greensboro, and the rest.

40:47

But then they also turned their focus to their local scene.

40:53

They recognized the message coming from

40:59

the sit-in campaigns in the South,

41:01

and said now, what are the issues here

41:04

that we need to concretely address?

41:07

And that, of course, was a prelude,

41:10

and preparation, the sowing of the seeds for the soil

41:13

of what later became some of the student movements,

41:16

some of the peace movements of the late '60s,

41:20

1970s, this is often ignored in many of the conversations

41:23

and books about the 1960s,

41:27

and I want to make certain that we understand that.

41:30

I operated not simply as one person,

41:34

committed to nonviolence, but I also operated as a scholar,

41:37

a student of the movement,

41:41

and sought to be not simply experimenting,

41:43

but finding out what was going on,

41:46

and observing, and listening, and analyzing

41:49

what it meant in terms of our struggle.

41:51

Because none of us, including Martin King and Ella Baker,

41:53

knew what we were doing.

41:56

We had a commitment to the fact

41:59

that this nation had to change.

42:01

We did have a vision of democracy and justice

42:03

and freedom and liberty and the rest of it.

42:06

We did have a vision that the way people were treated

42:09

in this land out of the rapaciousness of racism

42:12

and violence and sexism and poverty and greed

42:16

that those conditions had to be changed.

42:19

And we had that vision.

42:22

We did not know how to do it,

42:24

but we were about the business

42:26

of trying to make it happen anyway,

42:27

and we oftentimes made mistakes, no doubt,

42:30

but the mistakes were a part of our effort to experiment

42:32

and go forward.

42:35

The student conference were brought together

42:36

at the initiative of Martin King and Ella Baker.

42:38

Ella Baker was the executive,

42:41

the interim executive director of SALC.

42:43

She called me, and I know a number of other people,

42:45

to talk about it, and to help put together the agenda.

42:49

She called also Doug Moore, he was a campus minister

42:52

in Greensboro or someplace in North Carolina.

42:57

In Durham, that's right, in Durham.

43:01

Several of us across the South, therefore,

43:04

were pushing it and organizing it.

43:08

Over the phone, we created the agenda.

43:11

It was my insistence that it should be a working conference.

43:13

That is, we did not want to have lots of speeches,

43:16

but let students come from all the different places,

43:19

and let us talk about where we were,

43:22

what we were trying to do,

43:27

and where we wanted to go,

43:29

and let the conference itself make the decisions

43:31

about the future.

43:33

And I came without a pre-determined set of ideas

43:35

about what the conference may or may not do.

43:38

I was one of the adults in the process of organizing it,

43:41

and we became a working conference.

43:46

We did get, as I recall, people from over 12 states.

43:48

We did get over a hundred and some folk who were here.

43:51

Most of the major senate campaigns in the southeast

43:55

were here, and were represented here.

43:58

In Nashville, we were enthusiastic about it,

44:02

and the Nashville Christian Leadership Council

44:05

is the organization in Nashville that decided

44:08

to desegregate downtown Nashville.

44:11

Out of the movement financed the trip,

44:15

and saw it as an essential trip

44:19

for our continued working abilities.

44:21

We were a representative group.

44:24

We had representatives from the North.

44:29

The point I would make here is if we want

44:33

a broadened democracy in the United States,

44:35

let us look at the student conference

44:38

and some of the work since then

44:40

as one of the ways that that broadening

44:41

of American democracy can take place.

44:43

Let us see 'snick', the student conference,

44:45

and the ensuing years as a metaphor

44:50

for how we get a better understanding

44:52

of where we are and where we want to go

44:55

in this 21st century of ours.

44:57

So it was a representative working conference.

45:01

There was only an opening speech

45:04

and a closing speech.

45:06

In between, we formed the great variety of discussions

45:09

and proceeded to see if we could be of one mind.

45:12

We discovered very early on,

45:16

as Charles McDew has already indicated,

45:17

we found very early on that here was

45:20

a gathering of the family,

45:24

here there was love and understanding,

45:27

an effort to forgive, forget,

45:30

but to pull together for a common cause.

45:32

So the conference was a participatory conference.

45:36

Do we need to broaden democracy

45:41

and make it more participatory?

45:43

Amen, it must be done.

45:45

It has to be done.

45:46

For we are now in a time where we have

45:48

strong economic and political forces.

45:51

We have strong military forces,

45:54

whose notion is that this nation

45:57

should be governed by an exclusive elite,

45:59

and by a small and smaller number.

46:04

Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition maintain

46:07

that this nation should be governed by a theocracy,

46:10

in which only their form of religion,

46:13

only people who accept and adopt their form of religion,

46:16

which is an atrocious distortion of what religion is about,

46:19

should be elected to public offices,

46:22

or should be appointed to public offices.

46:25

That assault from the right

46:27

is an assault upon diminishing any people's effort

46:31

to broaden the scope of our understanding,

46:37

and to broaden our scope of participation.

46:40

So we work from consensus here.

46:43

I don't remember if we took that many votes,

46:46

but we tried primarily, if it were a vote,

46:49

that vote would be an overwhelming vote in one direction.

46:51

If it wasn't, we kept on talking,

46:55

until we found oursevles going in the same direction.

46:56

That is participatory democracy.

47:00

Man

Teach.

47:03

-

We decided to write a little mission statement,

47:04

and I was on that committee,

47:06

and I was asked to draft that committee.

47:09

I know that in places, that statement is seen

47:11

as Jim Lawson's statement,

47:13

It wasn't.

47:15

It was the statement of the conference.

47:16

I drafted it.

47:18

We re-drafted it and re-drafted it

47:19

until the conference said this is what we want.

47:21

It was a consensus of the student conference

47:24

that Easter weekend.

47:27

We put temporary in front of

47:31

Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee

47:32

because it was unanimous agreement

47:33

that that's what we wanted to call ourselves.

47:35

We put temporary on it,

47:38

not to indicate that we expected to go out of business,

47:40

but because we were trying to form and shape who we were

47:44

and what we were and how we would proceed

47:48

and what our structures were.

47:50

So it was temporary only in that sense.

47:52

This participatory democracy was something

47:56

that the Nashville movement,

48:00

which was often called the model movement up to that time

48:02

in our struggle, demonstrated.

48:05

We determined that in Nashville,

48:07

there would not be division between university and community

48:10

or student and adults of the community.

48:13

We decided there would not be division

48:16

between male and female.

48:18

So in our central committee,

48:20

which was our primary ideological and structure committee,

48:22

planning all the strategy, we worked to make that happen

48:27

among ourselves, so there were adults and students.

48:31

All the schools were represented on that central committee.

48:34

We had a student majority, so that we who were clergy,

48:37

or we who were adult laypeople,

48:42

could not dominate by any kind of vote or takeover.

48:45

We also, in order to have participatory democracy,

48:49

insisted there would be no one single chairman

48:52

or chairperson.

48:56

We insisted, rather, each chair of the central committee

48:57

would be for six months, and that only a student

49:01

could be chair of that central committee,

49:04

which governed not only our strategy,

49:06

our work together, our planning,

49:08

but also the money and the politics

49:10

of the present and the future.

49:14

That was the way in which we operated

49:17

in Nashville as a participatory unit.

49:20

No one leader.

49:24

And consequently,

49:26

when the press began to attack me primarily

49:28

as the organizer of the Nashville movement,

49:30

calling me a communist and whole lot of other junk,

49:33

I refused to be a spokesperson for the central committee

49:35

or the movement in Nashville.

49:41

We said move the speaking around.

49:43

When we did a press conference,

49:46

we selected who would do the speaking,

49:48

and what the issues were we were going to raise.

49:50

There is that great scene on April the 19th,

49:53

when 5,000 of us marched silently

49:55

from Tennessee State to downtown Nashville

49:58

into the mayor's office,

50:01

where we had bombarded him with telegrams.

50:04

He was not meeting with us,

50:07

and we said meet us there on Monday morning.

50:09

I think was a Monday morning maybe, April the 19th,

50:11

and he met us there.

50:14

Diane Nash demonstrated her leadership in our midst.

50:17

She was selected as the spokesperson

50:22

along with C.T. Vivian.

50:24

They both had their words to say.

50:26

Then, with the opening,

50:30

Diane, with her great intellectual understanding

50:33

of what we were about,

50:37

pushed the mayor to say,

50:38

for the first time in the deep South by any mayor,

50:40

the restaurants should be integrated.

50:43

Segregation should be broken down.

50:47

(crowd applauds)

50:49

And that was a breaking point

50:50

in Nashville.

50:53

But the point I make is

50:56

you want to broaden American democracy?

50:57

Then let's have a democracy in which we include

50:59

people rather than constantly excluding them.

51:02

Even if it means it takes pain for some of us older folk

51:06

to make the adjustments to who is included,

51:09

let's move towards an inclusive

51:12

kind of society and community,

51:14

and let's be an inclusive people,

51:16

as we move to make that happen as never before.

51:18

(crowd applauds)

51:21

And then the third and final thing I'd like to lift up is

51:24

we want to broaden democracy,

51:26

then let's have a common cause.

51:29

For that student conference

51:31

with a handful of adults who were there,

51:32

we had a common cause.

51:35

We knew that segregation had to end.

51:39

If there are difficulties today with words like integration

51:43

or what some of us may call ourselves,

51:47

let that be simply the pains of growth and movement.

51:50

We had a common cause.

51:55

We knew that the signs needed to come down in this nation,

51:58

white, colored, and so forth,

52:01

that the insulting had to cease,

52:03

that the indignities heaped upon too many people

52:05

had to stop.

52:08

In Nashville, I shall never forget

52:09

that in the Winter and Spring of 1959,

52:11

as we did workshops around the issue

52:15

where do we want to go from here?

52:17

It was the women in our midst

52:19

who insisted that we ought to move

52:23

on downtown Nashville,

52:25

where they did most of the shopping

52:27

for the families in the black community in Nashville.

52:30

And it was that which impacted at least my own mind,

52:34

and made me recognize that our target

52:37

to desegregate downtown Nashville

52:39

was the task that we needed to take upon ourselves.

52:41

We had a common cause.

52:45

In Nashville, that common cause lasted

52:47

for the central committee some 10 or 15 years,

52:49

where generation after generation

52:52

joined with the adults who already engaged

52:55

to move the desegregation from downtown outward.

52:57

You should know that the sit-in movement

53:04

caused, in the South, over 300 cities

53:05

to begin the process of taking down signs

53:09

from waiting rooms, from restaurants and counters,

53:12

from airports and train stations, but stations and the like.

53:15

And to begin that slow, tedious process of desegregation.

53:19

The desegregation has not yet happened.

53:26

You need to recognize that.

53:28

The dismantling of racism is still the number one task

53:30

that this nation must adopt if the nation

53:33

would become a nation where indeed

53:36

equality and justice is available

53:39

for every girl or boy, woman or man,

53:41

everywhere in our land.

53:43

Trent Lott and Jesse Helms are the symbols

53:45

of the obstinate, obdurate white power in this nation,

53:48

that is also economic power that wants this nation

53:55

to become an authoritarian society,

53:57

and we must get a common cause.

54:00

Woman

Yes.

54:07

-

Where it's not a right or left,

54:08

but rather it's a matter of dismantling violence,

54:10

dismantling sexism, dismantling the addiction in our nation,

54:15

dismantling the materialism that ruins so many people,

54:19

dismantling the greed and the poverty in our land.

54:23

It can be done.

54:28

We need a common cause.

54:29

(crowd applauds)

54:30

And then finally, I just want to add to that.

54:34

We had not only a common cause in that conference,

54:35

but we had a common ideology.

54:40

Let's not play games about the business of nonviolence.

54:42

All of us who gathered here that Easter weekend

54:47

had been weaned on the violence of America.

54:51

All of us played games with the romance of violence

54:55

that this nation still holds so dear.

54:59

We were not unanimous

55:04

in saying that nonviolent was the ideology

55:06

we would abide by.

55:09

We were unanimous in understanding

55:10

that in the cause of dismantling segregation,

55:13

we had ro have a common discipline,

55:16

and a willingness to take the risks

55:19

to make that discipline and that common cause come alive.

55:21

I could say much more about this,

55:29

but the final thing I guess I want to say is,

55:31

the romantic rhetoric among those of us

55:33

who think we are progressive people

55:36

is nothing but romantic rhetoric,

55:38

which has no basis in the reality of this America.

55:41

The violence in this nation is institutional and systemic.

55:47

And any and all who seek to change it

55:55

will be subject to the rapaciousness of the CIA,

55:58

the military intelligence, the FBI,

56:01

and the police, and then, if that doesn't work,

56:03

the Pentagon itself.

56:07

Let's not play games.

56:09

(crowd applauds)

56:11

The handful of people who wanted to break windows

56:14

and so forth,

56:19

the anarchists in Seattle,

56:20

they may be very good-intentioned,

56:23

but they are wrong.

56:25

For Seattle, which was an enormous demonstration

56:27

of people power, around nonviolent preparation

56:30

and discipline and training.

56:34

Everyone was trained to carry out

56:36

their strategies and tactics

56:39

whether they did it for ideological reasons,

56:41

or spiritual reasons,

56:44

or for tactical reasons.

56:45

All were encouraged to abide by a common social dimension

56:47

that would enable them to get their tasks done.

56:52

Their little handful of breaking windows,

56:55

or a handful of people with 50,000 people became the way

56:57

that the media could then interpret Seattle and pretend

57:02

that something enormous had not happened,

57:08

and the press will always do this,

57:11

for they do not want ordinary people like ourselves

57:15

to recognize that we have a life-giving power

57:21

in our own hearts

57:26

if we tap it and use it.

57:28

We can still see the second revolution in America take place

57:32

and turn over these thresholds of pain and hurt

57:36

and create that beloved society.

57:40

(crowd applauds)

57:44

(crowd applauds)

57:54

(crowd applauds)

58:03

-

Thank you very much, Reverend Lawson.

58:08

It's the power of love, as they say.

58:10

We're still out here, we're still struggling,

58:14

we're still moving forward.

58:16

I said something earlier about

58:18

I think Miss Baker and the YMCA,

58:21

and I think what I meant to say

58:22

is the Young Negro Cooperative League

58:24

back in the late '20s,

58:26

which was one of her missions that she undertook.

58:27

When I think of Anne Braden, you know,

58:31

it reminds me in many ways,

58:33

you know 'snick' was one of these organizations

58:35

that sort of assumed anybody could do anything.

58:38

I was in Atlanta, you know,

58:41

I don't even know if I was old enough to vote.

58:44

And foreman told me, well you need to go to Louisville

58:46

and help out over there.

58:50

And I just dropped off some books at Miles College

58:52

and came over to Atlanta,

58:54

was figuring out what my next mission was going to be.

58:56

I'd never been to Louisville.

58:58

Matter of fact, I don't think I'd ever been to Kentucky,

59:00

except to pick up things

59:02

to take south to Clarksdale.

59:03

But Reggie Robinson and Bob Zellner

59:06

drove me up to Louisville, Kentucky,

59:09

and I met, I'd seen her before in Atlanta,

59:12

but I met Anne Braden and Carl Braden.

59:15

I stayed in their home.

59:17

And we proceeded, I think 'snick' gave me like 25 dollars,

59:19

and said go forth and organize a movement.

59:21

(laughter)

59:25

It was just the way things work, you know.

59:27

I got a car ride and 25 dollars,

59:29

Anne gave me a home, fed me,

59:31

and the rest was just history,

59:33

so we went down to the West End and starting organizing

59:36

demonstrations against

59:38

(no audio)

59:42

(no audio)

59:50

Tape 6, 2000 April

Transcript

Item Info

John Hope Franklin Research Center