Tarpley, Connie - interviewed by Rose Norman
Loading the media player...
Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
- | On, okay it's now, this is Rose Norman. | 0:00 |
This November 7th, 2013, | 0:02 | |
and I'm interviewing Connie Tarpley | 0:06 | |
at Sugarloaf Women's Village, on Sugarloaf Key. | 0:09 | |
Connie lives in Key West. | 0:13 | |
She was a frequent visitor to Sugarloaf Village, | 0:17 | |
which was not called that then, | 0:20 | |
from what period would you say? | 0:22 | |
You were with Vogal 13 years. | 0:25 | |
Connie | Okay, I met them, | 0:27 |
I met Jane probably fist | 0:32 | |
because she was involved | 0:35 | |
in the Batterer's Intervention Group. | 0:37 | |
There were women who were locally, in town, | 0:41 | |
who were trying to get a shelter together. | 0:44 | |
And so there was a group of us that wanted to do something, | 0:47 | |
and then there was the more bureaucratic types (chuckles) | 0:50 | |
that wanted to establish somethin' through the government, | 0:54 | |
and that sort of thing. | 0:57 | |
So we started doin' safe houses, | 0:58 | |
and then I started comin' up here for CR group. | 1:01 | |
I'm thinking that was like | 1:06 | |
in the very late '70s, like '78, '79, | 1:10 | |
somewhere around then. | 1:15 | |
Host | Earlier you said that the first time | 1:17 |
you saw the Sugarloaf women was at an ERA. | 1:19 | |
Connie | Event and they, and I just vaguely | 1:23 |
remembered it was a parade and I was standing | 1:26 | |
on the sideline watching and they were marching | 1:29 | |
in the parade and they were like, | 1:32 | |
"Come on, join us, join us!" | 1:33 | |
And little did I know that I eventually would join them, | 1:35 | |
but I had known about Barbara before I ever came up here | 1:39 | |
because I had, there was an article about her | 1:44 | |
in Ms. Magazine. | 1:47 | |
This, I still remember the cover of it. | 1:48 | |
This beautiful, Bougainvillea cover, | 1:51 | |
and talking about her living on Sugarloaf Key. | 1:56 | |
Bonnie | Oh, that's interesting. | 1:59 |
Connie | I knew that about her, | 2:03 |
but then I met Jane through the women's | 2:04 | |
group that was trying to-- | 2:12 | |
- | Domestic violence. | 2:14 |
- | Setup some shelters, yeah. | |
Host | That's how Bonnie met her... | 2:16 |
Well no, she didn't. | 2:17 | |
She met her when she came down here. | 2:19 | |
She got Bonnie involved in that too. | 2:21 | |
Okay so, | 2:25 | |
so you first, | 2:27 | |
let's just sort of take it, time for the story | 2:28 | |
of your interactions with Sugarloaf, | 2:31 | |
starting with when they called you to join them in the ERA. | 2:32 | |
Was it a action or a parade? | 2:36 | |
Connie | It was some kind of parade, | 2:38 |
and I can barely remember what it was. | 2:39 | |
But they were marching. | 2:42 | |
It honestly, it probably, I don't know that it was ERA. | 2:45 | |
It was a NOW. | 2:49 | |
It was the first chapter of the NOW group | 2:51 | |
down here in Key West. | 2:54 | |
Host | So were you a member of NOW, or? | 2:57 |
Connie | I wasn't a member of NOW at that point, no. | 2:58 |
I was not. | 3:02 | |
Host | But you just happened to see that parade? | 3:03 |
Connie | I just, I don't know why I was there. | 3:04 |
It was one of those (laughing) synchronicities. | 3:07 | |
And it is a, it's a small town. | 3:11 | |
Host | Sure, yeah. | 3:13 |
We're talkin' Key West now. | 3:14 | |
- | Yes. | |
- | It's a small town. | 3:16 |
- | Right. | |
Host | So late '70s, | 3:19 |
the ERA's counting down. | 3:21 | |
They'd only been here a few years. | 3:25 | |
They moved here in '76. | 3:27 | |
Connie | Yeah, they hadn't been here long, | 3:29 |
so it was kind of a coming together of a lot of things. | 3:30 | |
Joan Sears was another women who was involved | 3:36 | |
with the NOW group and there's also a woman who | 3:39 | |
lives here now, who's actually, her husband was the editor | 3:43 | |
of the Solares Hill before a long time. | 3:47 | |
And another woman, gosh here I am with the names. | 3:53 | |
I'm so bad. | 3:57 | |
Iva Stanley. | 4:01 | |
And her husband was the editor of Solares Hill | 4:02 | |
before, oh gosh. | 4:06 | |
Why am I blanking? | 4:09 | |
I'm really bad with names. | 4:11 | |
I'm blanking on everybody's name. | 4:12 | |
Host | He's given me a lot of names, | 4:14 |
so I can probably fill them in if you tell me who they are. | 4:15 | |
These are straight women who are-- | 4:18 | |
Connie | These are straight women that were | 4:19 |
involved with Sugarloaf because they lived up here. | 4:21 | |
They didn't live on the land here, | 4:26 | |
but they lived in the neighborhood. | 4:29 | |
Jane and Barbara both related to the neighborhood. | 4:32 | |
Bonnie | Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's important. | 4:38 |
Host | And it couldn't have been much later than '79. | 4:41 |
I think ERA failed in '79, | 4:44 | |
failed to get the last state. | 4:48 | |
Bonnie | I was in jail when Joan Sears-- | 4:51 |
Connie | Oh you were? | 4:56 |
- | Yeah. | 4:57 |
- | All right, well so. | |
Bonnie | We were in there 16 days, got to be-- | 4:59 |
Connie | So was that Sinica, or? | 5:01 |
Bonnie | It was after Sinica, it was '83. | 5:03 |
It was that year after the big year there. | 5:06 | |
Host | So the fury when Barbara's alive | 5:13 |
is only from '73-- | 5:15 | |
- | Jan Howe is who | |
I was trying to think of. | 5:17 | |
- | Another one of them. | 5:19 |
- | She was another one | |
of the straight women that was involved | 5:20 | |
with the NOW organization and the community. | 5:23 | |
Host | And was involved with Sugarloaf | 5:26 |
through those activities. | 5:28 | |
So Jane, or Jane and Barbara were big into NOW. | 5:32 | |
(laughing) | 5:37 | |
Connie | I don't know if they were big into NOW. | 5:37 |
They were into women's rights. | 5:40 | |
I'd say that they were a little more radical | 5:43 | |
(laughing) than NOW. | 5:47 | |
Was just that they were doin' what was available, | 5:48 | |
and maybe the women and connecting as they could. | 5:52 | |
I think. | 5:56 | |
- | Yes 'cause | |
NOW had a lesbian task force in Miami. | 5:58 | |
We have a, somebody wrote an article | 6:02 | |
about the lesbian task force in NOW. | 6:04 | |
Marry Sims, we have a whole bunch of stuff from Miami | 6:08 | |
that Barbara Esta put together. | 6:11 | |
Connie | Oh okay. | 6:12 |
Yeah, I know there was a lot of dissension | 6:13 | |
among the ranks about whether to be out, not to be out. | 6:17 | |
All the stuff that went on even though | 6:21 | |
I wasn't intimately involved in it. | 6:24 | |
Host | Well I was kind of wondering, | 6:29 |
and Bonnie was a little vague about how, | 6:32 | |
at what point Barbara and Jane began to think | 6:35 | |
about this as women's land. | 6:39 | |
- | That was Blue. | 6:41 |
- | That was really Blue. | |
Connie | Blue, Blue. | 6:44 |
Have you seen the little documentary | 6:45 | |
that they did on Blue? | 6:47 | |
Some Ground to Stand On. | 6:49 | |
She was so big with that. | 6:50 | |
She came from New York, where she had an apartment | 6:54 | |
that was open to any woman that really needed to be there. | 6:57 | |
So because of her background and really, | 7:01 | |
I think not feeling like having a place, | 7:05 | |
being orphaned early on, | 7:08 | |
livin' with an aunt. | 7:11 | |
Maybe a godmother, I guess that, | 7:12 | |
I guess I can say all this stuff since (laughing)-- | 7:16 | |
Host | It's in the movie, okay. | 7:18 |
Connie | Yeah, right. | 7:19 |
I'm like well I know this stuff from CR, | 7:21 | |
and from during group where | 7:23 | |
there's all this confidentiality, | 7:25 | |
but I'm sure she doesn't care. | 7:26 | |
I think it sprang from that, | 7:29 | |
and she very much wanted | 7:32 | |
to have Women's Land where women could feel safe. | 7:34 | |
And I think she was the real driving force before that. | 7:38 | |
Before she came, it seemed to me that it was | 7:42 | |
very intellectual, which I loved. | 7:46 | |
It was thrilling. | 7:48 | |
The people that came through here, | 7:49 | |
peace activists from Argentina (chuckles) and Chile. | 7:54 | |
It was, and riders and all these people that, | 7:58 | |
this girl from Tennessee had never been exposed to. | 8:03 | |
So it was very thrilling. | 8:06 | |
But Blue brought a different flavor to it. | 8:08 | |
It was more about community, I think with her. | 8:11 | |
Not that they weren't about community, | 8:14 | |
but I felt like it was more... | 8:17 | |
It's all of the political work, the, | 8:19 | |
peace activism and all that stuff. | 8:26 | |
It's all, I think it's all related, | 8:28 | |
but it seemed to me that Blue was the one that | 8:31 | |
brought the sense of community. | 8:34 | |
Host | Okay. | 8:36 |
Well what was said at the end of that film is that | 8:38 | |
it was Barbara's getting the land that gave them | 8:41 | |
some ground to stand on. | 8:46 | |
She's, connects that phrase to Barbara's getting the land. | 8:47 | |
So I'm wanting, I'm glad to get it clear that | 8:52 | |
your sense was that Barbara and Jane were activists, | 8:55 | |
activists, activists, but not necessarily | 8:59 | |
women's community land group activist. | 9:02 | |
Connie | Well I hate to speak for the people (chuckling) | 9:06 |
that aren't here anymore, but that was my impression of it. | 9:10 | |
That's all I can say. | 9:13 | |
Host | Sure, there's so few people that are alive. | 9:14 |
You know, from that period to, and that... | 9:18 | |
It's such a short period, '76 to '84. | 9:24 | |
That's eight years that Barbara Deming was alive | 9:26 | |
on this land. | 9:29 | |
So you'd think there'd be people who-- | 9:32 | |
Connie | Well, there, what about Sky? | 9:35 |
Have you tried to talk to her? | 9:38 | |
Host | I'm trying to get in touch with Sky. | 9:40 |
Connie | And that's something that Joan Sears | 9:42 |
might help you with. | 9:44 | |
And I know that Jan is connected to Joan. | 9:45 | |
Actually, Joan sent me some pictures through Jan. | 9:49 | |
Bonnie | Where's Joan right now? | 9:54 |
Connie | Joan is out on the West Coast. | 9:55 |
She's in Washington, | 9:59 | |
I believe. | 10:02 | |
I believe it's Washington, yes. | 10:03 | |
Host | There is a Sky Vanderline | 10:05 |
who was a nurse practitioner in, | 10:06 | |
Springfield, Massachusetts. | 10:11 | |
We think is our Sky. | 10:13 | |
I've got a business phone. | 10:16 | |
(laughing) | 10:18 | |
- | Oh okay. | |
I think that is. | 10:18 | |
I think that is where she is, | 10:21 | |
but I'm pretty sure that probably. | 10:22 | |
Who did the, I don't know. | 10:27 | |
Actually I think Joan might be the one that would know | 10:28 | |
if anybody knew. | 10:32 | |
That would be my guess anyway. | 10:33 | |
But that sounds like her. | 10:34 | |
That's her name, so. | 10:36 | |
How many of them are there? | 10:38 | |
- | It's an unusual name. | |
Can you connect me to Joan Sears? | 10:40 | |
- | I think I can. | 10:42 |
- | She's the one that lives | |
behind you? | 10:43 | |
Connie | No, no, no, that's Cornelia. | 10:44 |
She's from Germany. | 10:46 | |
It's a whole different thing, but yeah. | 10:48 | |
Okay I'll wait. | 10:52 | |
(laughing) | 10:54 | |
- | No I was just, | |
I'm wantin' to be sure and want you to get away with that. | 10:56 | |
I'll get some phone numbers out of your hair. | 10:58 | |
Connie | Well you know what, I have your email address. | 11:00 |
And so I can always, what I can do is | 11:02 | |
try to pull some of that stuff together. | 11:04 | |
I wish maybe I would've made more of an effort, | 11:07 | |
but I just kinda didn't. | 11:10 | |
It seemed kinda like you were more interested | 11:14 | |
in talking to people who were actually on the land. | 11:16 | |
So I was kinda had put this out of my mind | 11:18 | |
that were were even gonna do it until your phone call. | 11:21 | |
Host | Well, it's just that | 11:24 |
I'm feeling like I need more voices. | 11:26 | |
Connie | And there's, I think there are plenty out there. | 11:30 |
You might have to track them down. | 11:32 | |
Bonnie | You know, when I was here in '83, | 11:35 |
with the peace walk and then I stayed around the Keys, | 11:40 | |
and spent time with Barbara and stuff. | 11:44 | |
I had the impression that while she had global notions, | 11:47 | |
that she was totally into a women's, I mean she, | 11:52 | |
they had a women's potluck, had women's CR. | 11:56 | |
I mean-- | 11:59 | |
- | Yes, yes, oh I'm. | |
Bonnie | She was doing women organizing too. | 12:01 |
Host | Oh she was a lesbian feminist activist. | 12:05 |
There's no doubt about that and I'm not, | 12:09 | |
I didn't mean to say that it wasn't her dream. | 12:12 | |
Obviously it was. | 12:15 | |
I guess, | 12:18 | |
maybe I just saw it | 12:21 | |
comin' more to life. | 12:23 | |
And there's, I would also say that this woman right here, | 12:25 | |
Claudia who came from Germany, | 12:29 | |
was also somebody that really | 12:32 | |
got the community aspect. | 12:35 | |
There's a certain spirit to it. | 12:38 | |
It's, and one, yeah, one is intellectual, | 12:41 | |
and one is, what's the word? | 12:46 | |
I'm not sure. | 12:49 | |
There is just a spirit there | 12:50 | |
that brought everybody together, | 12:52 | |
and got things going, | 12:54 | |
and projects going. | 12:57 | |
I don't really know how to describe it, | 13:00 | |
but definitely a community head, | 13:02 | |
because there was a period of time, it seemed to me | 13:05 | |
where it was just women living in separate houses. | 13:08 | |
That doesn't mean there wasn't some community going on, | 13:12 | |
it's just a different type of community. | 13:15 | |
Does that make sense to you and would you agree with that? | 13:20 | |
It's like everybody's, it's not, I'm not trying | 13:23 | |
to imply that they weren't into women's community. | 13:27 | |
It was just a different kind of women's community, yes. | 13:31 | |
Bonnie | They weren't the ones that would get everybody | 13:34 |
to plant flowers or to mow the lawns, | 13:36 | |
and build a new porch. | 13:40 | |
Host | Oh, they didn't care, they didn't care about that. | 13:42 |
And there was like community things happening, | 13:45 | |
and they probably wanted more of it, | 13:48 | |
but I, part of it, they had huge connections, | 13:51 | |
but so did Blue. | 13:55 | |
Really, when, like say for instance when we went | 13:56 | |
to this march. | 14:00 | |
You would walk down the street and you couldn't move | 14:03 | |
two inches without somebody knowin' Blue or Vogel. | 14:05 | |
It was really pretty amazing, and I'm going | 14:08 | |
oh my god. | 14:12 | |
I don't know anybody here. (laughing) | 14:13 | |
And it seemed like they knew everybody in the city | 14:15 | |
at that moment. | 14:18 | |
So there was these, that's the thing. | 14:21 | |
There was this huge connection and people were | 14:23 | |
visiting all the time. | 14:27 | |
Blue was in her element. | 14:29 | |
Barbara was a writer. | 14:31 | |
Blue was like greet the people that come onto the land, | 14:33 | |
let me show you everything that we have, | 14:37 | |
kinda drawing people in. | 14:42 | |
So everybody really contributed something, | 14:45 | |
and I was definitely in awe | 14:49 | |
of Barbara Deming. | 14:53 | |
That was part of my problem, was that she was | 14:56 | |
like on a pedestal to me. | 15:00 | |
I was much more connected probably to Jane | 15:02 | |
than I was to Barbara 'cause I felt a little, | 15:05 | |
I was too-- | 15:08 | |
I think I felt that too. | ||
Host | Too much in awe of Barbara. | 15:10 |
But she wonderful. | 15:15 | |
She was a deep, deep listener. | 15:17 | |
If, she... | 15:20 | |
Everybody was valuable to her. | 15:22 | |
So in that way, she was very much a community person | 15:25 | |
because she would listen to anybody | 15:29 | |
with the same intensity. | 15:33 | |
And actually that's somethin' that I think Blue | 15:34 | |
shared with her. | 15:37 | |
That when she turned her attention on you, | 15:38 | |
you really felt heard and listened to and valued. | 15:42 | |
- | Yeah. | 15:45 |
- | Yeah. | |
(crickets chirping) | 15:46 | |
Connie | I guess the reason I keep coming back | 15:53 |
to the notion of women's community is because | 15:54 | |
this issue we're working on now is the land's issue | 15:58 | |
of Sinister Wisdom. | 16:03 | |
We've got, we got a women, well, | 16:04 | |
the women now at Alpine, | 16:07 | |
talkin' about when they were doin' Pagoda | 16:09 | |
and why they were doing it and what they were doing. | 16:10 | |
And Corky's gonna write about the North 40, | 16:13 | |
which has six women on it today. | 16:17 | |
It may be the first. | 16:20 | |
We think it may be the first women's land group, | 16:21 | |
at least the first one we can document in the country. | 16:24 | |
Host | Wow. | 16:27 |
Connie | So Sugarloaf, which has, | 16:32 |
at least for me, a long reputation | 16:36 | |
as a mecca. | 16:39 | |
Not only because, well because of Barbara and Blue, but... | 16:42 | |
That it got its start, it came from a different roots | 16:47 | |
than any of these other land communities in the same period. | 16:50 | |
'76 is right in the middle of when people were | 16:54 | |
forming land groups. | 16:57 | |
Barbara and Jane came here because Barbara was cold | 16:59 | |
and needed to be warm. | 17:03 | |
- | Barbara, because | |
of her health, yes. | 17:04 | |
Connie | But she had the idea, | 17:07 |
what Bonnie has said, of forming something like what | 17:10 | |
Dr. King called the Beloved Community, | 17:14 | |
which hasn't got anything to do with women only | 17:17 | |
or feminism, it has to do with nonviolence, | 17:20 | |
and peace activism. | 17:23 | |
But that was her, but it was practical goal. | 17:27 | |
And so she came here with Andrew Dorgan, a gay man. | 17:30 | |
That was who livin' in the two story. | 17:34 | |
So that's just a really different way | 17:38 | |
for a women's land to start. | 17:39 | |
Your land started very differently, | 17:40 | |
with different goals and ideals. | 17:42 | |
Not that you weren't peace activists, | 17:44 | |
or actually-- | 17:46 | |
- | Yeah. | |
But like, that was not, I mean some of us were, | 17:48 | |
but some of us never did relate whatsoever on the land. | 17:52 | |
Most land pieces have to do, at the get-go | 18:00 | |
with forming a community, | 18:04 | |
and weren't so theoretical. | 18:08 | |
But Barbara was theoretical, intellectual as you say. | 18:10 | |
And it was about nonviolence and it was about, it had a... | 18:14 | |
Just, it, I can see it as a different kind | 18:22 | |
of early vibe | 18:25 | |
that started it. | 18:27 | |
Connie | Right and they came from a community | 18:28 |
in New York anyway. | 18:31 | |
They were living in community there. | 18:32 | |
Host | Really? | 18:34 |
What kind of community there? | 18:35 | |
Connie | I just spoke to, when I was at the | 18:37 |
Occupy DC, I ran into a woman that | 18:40 | |
had lived in the community and actually had | 18:45 | |
Barbara Deming's jacket. | 18:47 | |
I'm trying to think of what her name was. | 18:49 | |
- | Wow. | 18:51 |
- | But I can probably | |
track her down, but-- | 18:53 | |
- | Did you say you | |
spoke at Occupy DC? | 18:55 | |
Connie | I said when I was at Occupy DC, yeah. | 18:57 |
I went and camped there for a while, yeah. | 19:00 | |
Bonnie | That's great, yeah. | 19:03 |
Go ahead, go ahead. | 19:06 | |
Connie | Anyway. (laughing) | 19:07 |
I'm gettin' off topic. | 19:08 | |
Host | No that's okay, we can edit this. | 19:10 |
That's another thing is I don't transcribe these. | 19:12 | |
- | Oh good. | 19:14 |
- | I listen to them, | |
and I pull out what I think-- | 19:16 | |
- | Pull out the pieces. | |
Host | We can use. | 19:17 |
And then I send it to you and ask you is this correct? | 19:18 | |
And you can fix it or call me up and tell me | 19:21 | |
how to fix it, whatever. | 19:25 | |
So you don't have to worry. | 19:27 | |
The tape will go to Duke, so anytime you don't want | 19:29 | |
anything said on the tape, | 19:31 | |
you need to tell me to pause it. | 19:32 | |
Connie | Oh, okay. | 19:34 |
(snaps) | 19:36 | |
I'll get, what I was thinkin' about-- | 19:37 | |
Bonnie | You came from a community, yours? | 19:38 |
Host | Barbara Deming and Jane had lived | 19:42 |
in some kind of community too. | 19:44 | |
Connie | In New York, that's my understanding. | 19:46 |
Now you're talking to a woman with with not, (laughing) | 19:48 | |
super good memory, but that's my recollection | 19:51 | |
of what I was told. | 19:54 | |
And the fact that I ran into this woman who knew her | 19:56 | |
from there, so. | 19:59 | |
Host | Well the expansion of the property. | 20:01 |
She bought the property with three buildings on it. | 20:03 | |
A guest cottage, the house that Andrew and Joan lived in, | 20:06 | |
and the house that she and Jane lived in. | 20:11 | |
I think the next property she bought was when, | 20:14 | |
when Blue wanted, when she wanted Blue to move here, | 20:16 | |
and she bought that other lot that had that house | 20:20 | |
on it for Blue. | 20:23 | |
So she was instrumental in expanding the land. | 20:24 | |
And she kept buying property. | 20:28 | |
Connie | Yeah, so they really probably were on... | 20:30 |
Obviously that's what she wanted to have happen. | 20:35 | |
I'm not, I'm sorry if I sounded like (laughing) | 20:38 | |
that wasn't her main goal. | 20:42 | |
I'm just saying the feel of it for me. | 20:44 | |
I was coming up and all I was really doing at that point, | 20:47 | |
mostly was going to see our group. | 20:51 | |
So my understanding of the whole thing | 20:54 | |
was not necessarily there. | 20:58 | |
I did meet Blue and she came down on the trip, | 20:59 | |
and she went out to my sailboat. | 21:02 | |
I got to meet her, but I really, you know. | 21:06 | |
I probably wasn't payin' attention. | 21:09 | |
I was like in my 20s. | 21:11 | |
(laughing) | 21:13 | |
I was just out and so there was a lot | 21:15 | |
of things goin' on in my life. | 21:18 | |
So I will, you know, | 21:20 | |
please take what I say with a grain of salt, | 21:22 | |
and understanding that it's my memory of what was goin' on. | 21:25 | |
Bonnie | Absolutely. | 21:29 |
I wanna know how you go to Key West from Tennessee. | 21:30 | |
Connie | I came, actually (chuckling) | 21:34 |
I came on spring break and I just, | 21:36 | |
kinda one thing lead to another, | 21:39 | |
so I heard somebody say. | 21:41 | |
(laughing) | ||
Bonnie | What town in Tennessee? | 21:42 |
Connie | East Tennessee. | 21:44 |
A little town right outside of Chattanooga. | 21:46 | |
Host | I live in Huntsville, Alabama, | 21:49 |
so I'm familiar with that-- | 21:51 | |
- | Oh okay. | |
Area, we're 20 miles from the Tennessee line. | 21:53 | |
Connie | Oh okay, so good, yeah you know. | 21:56 |
Host | I'm liking your southern accent | 21:58 |
(laughing) | 22:00 | |
because we're getting way | ||
too many of these northerners coming in here. | 22:01 | |
(laughing) | 22:03 | |
Which is okay, they're southern too | 22:07 | |
when they've been here 30 years. | 22:09 | |
(laughing) | 22:10 | |
Connie | That's right. | 22:11 |
Host | Okay, so it's the '70s, | 22:14 |
and you're in a CR group that meets over here. | 22:16 | |
Connie | Yes. | 22:19 |
Host | Is it a lesbian CR group or just a CR group? | 22:20 |
Connie | No, Joan Sears attended. | 22:21 |
It was just a women's group. | 22:24 | |
And as a matter of fact, I wasn't a lesbian. | 22:26 | |
I said to Barbara | 22:29 | |
how I wished I could be a lesbian | 22:32 | |
because I really loved women, | 22:34 | |
it was just that I wasn't sexually attracted to them. | 22:36 | |
So little did I know. | 22:40 | |
And then when I finally came out, she says, | 22:42 | |
"I so wanted to tell you any woman can be." | 22:44 | |
(laughing) | 22:48 | |
Host | That's some really good stuff | 22:51 |
in this book I'm reading of hers right now, | 22:52 | |
where she thinks that ideally | 22:54 | |
you would have a society where everybody | 22:57 | |
could be attracted to whoever they felt like | 22:59 | |
being attracted to. | 23:01 | |
That it wasn't so gender stratified. | 23:03 | |
That was in 1973 that she was saying that. | 23:08 | |
So you're in Barbara Deming's CR group, | 23:13 | |
and you're comin' over here to Sugarloaf. | 23:17 | |
Who are all, you had a certain-- | 23:19 | |
Connie | It's no wonder I came out, right? | 23:20 |
(laughing) I mean would ya? | 23:22 | |
Host | Yes, gosh. | 23:23 |
So what was it like here then? | 23:28 | |
You came to the CR group. | 23:30 | |
You must have a sense of what the place was like. | 23:31 | |
Connie | Well I felt, | 23:35 |
I used to tell them it was like, | 23:37 | |
I felt like I was in paradise because first of all, | 23:39 | |
just the vegetation. | 23:43 | |
Here, you come in, there's mangoes hanging down | 23:45 | |
from the trees and banana trees and it's just gorgeous. | 23:48 | |
It was wonderful, I loved it. | 23:53 | |
It was, | 23:56 | |
just what my heart was looking for. | 23:59 | |
Bonnie | Did they have pictures of women all around then? | 24:01 |
Connie | I don't, you know what, | 24:07 |
I don't think so, not necessarily. | 24:09 | |
What do you mean, pictures of women? (laughing) | 24:12 | |
Bonnie | Well now, when you come, | 24:15 |
you see goddesses and you see women's art, | 24:16 | |
like they had time to accumulate a lot of that. | 24:20 | |
Connie | Yeah, I think so. | 24:23 |
Barbara had some antiques and stuff. | 24:25 | |
I had one of Barbara Deming's rocking chairs | 24:29 | |
at my house, as a matter of fact, | 24:33 | |
that came to me through Vogel. | 24:35 | |
So, | 24:39 | |
yeah it had, it just changed so much, | 24:41 | |
and so many women have been through here, | 24:44 | |
and left their mark on it. | 24:47 | |
It is much | 24:51 | |
cleaner and neater, | 24:53 | |
and prettied up and everything from when I | 24:54 | |
first came up here. | 24:58 | |
Yeah, I don't know. | 25:01 | |
My impression was of Jane. | 25:02 | |
I love Jane, but she was gruff and when I first met them, | 25:05 | |
she was still drinking and people were afraid of her, | 25:10 | |
but I thought she was fabulous. | 25:15 | |
Host | We found a collection of her poetry | 25:18 |
that Quinn put together and bounded with Elizabeth. | 25:20 | |
- | Oh! | 25:25 |
- | Make like it was, | |
apparently it was damaged and some of the-- | 25:26 | |
- | The Storm, yeah. | 25:29 |
- | This poetry's really good. | |
Good stuff! | 25:31 | |
I think she published her poetry as well, | 25:34 | |
but she was primarily a painter. | 25:34 | |
Connie | Yes and she did have one book published. | 25:39 |
Have you seen that? | 25:43 | |
It's called... | 25:44 | |
Host | I know what you mean. | 25:47 |
- | Well anyway. | 25:48 |
- | There's a lot of books here. | |
Connie | Yes. | 25:49 |
Bonnie | I have that at home-- | 25:52 |
Connie | Something Not Yet Ended, that's what it's called. | 25:53 |
- | Yeah, yeah, yeah. | 25:56 |
- | And it sounds just like her. | |
I mean, it is her voice or at least I think it is. | 25:58 | |
Bonnie | Good, yeah. | 26:01 |
Host | I just remembered, let me pause this a minute. | 26:05 |
Connie | Okay. | 26:08 |
- | Carry on. | 26:09 |
- | What can I tell you | |
that would be important? | 26:10 | |
Host | Okay, how did things change? | 26:13 |
Blue came to visit in '81 and to stay probably in '82. | 26:15 | |
And can you recall how things changed during that period? | 26:20 | |
Connie | Okay well. | 26:25 |
Actually, we continued | 26:27 | |
to come to CR group, | 26:29 | |
and I dropped out of CR group for a while | 26:31 | |
after Blue came because (laughing), | 26:35 | |
I guess it's okay for this to be on here. | 26:38 | |
I'll tell the dirt. | 26:41 | |
(laughing) We would usually show up at CR group, | 26:43 | |
of all things, with a bottle of wine. | 26:46 | |
And so Blue was not drinking and she was sober, | 26:49 | |
and she very much wanted Jane to be sober. | 26:53 | |
So she was not too happy with that. | 26:56 | |
And I was not to, I wasn't at a point of my life | 26:59 | |
where I could accept that I couldn't drink. | 27:02 | |
What do you mean I can't bring a bottle of wine? | 27:05 | |
So I didn't come around for a while. | 27:07 | |
I actually didn't come back around until Barbara was dying. | 27:10 | |
So I regret that in a lot of ways, | 27:15 | |
but it was where I was. | 27:18 | |
I was still pretty much a | 27:20 | |
kid in a way. | 27:23 | |
So I'm not really sure what happened. | 27:28 | |
That wasn't a real long period anyway. | 27:31 | |
Then I started relating to the community again, | 27:36 | |
at that point. | 27:39 | |
Host | You would've been from '82 to '84 I think. | 27:41 |
From when Blue moved here. | 27:43 | |
Connie | Well there wasn't exactly, | 27:45 |
the minute she moved here. | 27:47 | |
I related for a while, while she was here, | 27:49 | |
but then I finally at some point just decided that | 27:52 | |
maybe it wasn't such a good idea. | 27:55 | |
Host | Okay, so now Barbara has died. | 28:02 |
Jane lives on for another 10 years or so. | 28:04 | |
So that's when you started coming back out here? | 28:07 | |
Connie | Well, I guess I started. | 28:09 |
Actually I was in this room when Barbara walked in | 28:12 | |
with that peace drum and oh my gosh. | 28:15 | |
She had been having radiation. | 28:18 | |
Of course I'm the only one that burst into tears. | 28:22 | |
Everybody else is being reasonable,(chuckling) | 28:25 | |
and strong and everything. | 28:29 | |
So it was, yeah not, it was really-- | 28:31 | |
- | Wow. | 28:35 |
- | A sad time, | |
but it was also wonderful because women came, | 28:38 | |
and sang to her. | 28:42 | |
She got to say goodbye to everybody that she wanted to, | 28:45 | |
so there was, it was the beginning of me | 28:49 | |
being able to see good deaths, I guess, if you will. | 28:52 | |
I had never known anything like that. | 28:58 | |
So that was the first experience I had with that. | 29:00 | |
So she really | 29:05 | |
showed a different way of dying that I think was | 29:08 | |
really kind of way ahead of her time. | 29:12 | |
It's the kind of a common thing to have happen now, | 29:15 | |
but at that point, I think it was pretty unusual. | 29:18 | |
Host | You said people came from all over. | 29:24 |
This would be women, men, or? | 29:26 | |
Connie | Everybody, but a lot of women. | 29:30 |
She just, I think she said her goodbyes. | 29:33 | |
She gave away things, | 29:35 | |
she called people in. | 29:40 | |
And Bruce Pratt was there, | 29:42 | |
sang gospel songs to her, | 29:44 | |
different things. | 29:48 | |
It was, | 29:50 | |
good stuff. | 29:55 | |
Bonnie | People were so affected by a different way | 29:57 |
of taking care of death and being, | 30:00 | |
that they wanted that to be a specialty here, | 30:04 | |
after that. | 30:08 | |
They thought that was part of a mission, was to. | 30:09 | |
'Cause it had been totally taboo, | 30:13 | |
and nobody knew how to handle anything. | 30:15 | |
And just say this is part of love and life and stuff. | 30:17 | |
Connie | And Ruth's passing was very much like that too. | 30:22 |
It really was. | 30:26 | |
And I guess really Blue's too. | 30:27 | |
Host | Yeah, there's six, | 30:37 |
the ashes of six women in the urn in the Peace Garden. | 30:39 | |
And I think, I'm not sure if all 'em died here or not. | 30:43 | |
Connie | No, Addie was one whose ashes went there, | 30:46 |
and she didn't die here. | 30:49 | |
And Mayoua didn't die here and her ashes went there. | 30:50 | |
I don't, who else? | 30:56 | |
Who else was there? | 30:59 | |
- | Jane. | |
- | Jane's are there. | 31:00 |
- | Jane. | |
And Jane died in the hospital when I was, | 31:02 | |
Vogel and I were on a trip, | 31:05 | |
on a bicycle trip out west. | 31:07 | |
Host | Okay so think about the period then, | 31:13 |
from it's now Blue | 31:15 | |
who is running the show. | 31:18 | |
And you're coming back out here again? | 31:20 | |
Connie | Yes. | 31:22 |
- | And what-- | 31:24 |
- | And actually Vogel | |
started living out here. | 31:26 | |
She moved in... | 31:28 | |
trying to think of when she did move in. | 31:32 | |
Oh my gosh because it wasn't before Barbara | 31:34 | |
passed away 'cause she wasn't living here then. | 31:39 | |
Then they had tried to get her to move out here, | 31:42 | |
I think when she first moved down here. | 31:45 | |
Host | Which house did she live in? | 31:47 |
Connie | She lived in the, I call it the lavender house, | 31:48 |
the one that's next to, was next to the one | 31:52 | |
that Bonnie's in, which is where Barbara and Jane lived. | 31:55 | |
Bonnie | The two-story one. | 31:58 |
Connie | The two-story. | 31:59 |
Host | Oh. | 32:00 |
Bonnie | All the houses are different colors now, | 32:02 |
but they name 'em by the old colors. | 32:04 | |
Connie | Oh. | 32:06 |
(laughing) | 32:07 | |
Well, | 32:08 | |
and I'm trying hard not to say | 32:09 | |
she's next to Barbara and Jane's house, | 32:11 | |
and this is Ruth's house and that's Blue's house. | 32:14 | |
That's the way I think of it, but I know that's not | 32:19 | |
the way it is anymore. | 32:22 | |
So I try to be respectful of that. | 32:23 | |
Host | So Vogel was here. | 32:26 |
Vogel was an artist and did, | 32:27 | |
did anybody else live there at that house? | 32:34 | |
It's a big house. | 32:35 | |
Connie | It is a big house and she was the only one | 32:36 |
that lived there. | 32:39 | |
Visitors might come, but she pretty much | 32:40 | |
lived there by herself, | 32:42 | |
while she was there. | 32:44 | |
Host | Did she, there's a lot of her art around here, | 32:47 |
Bonnie has pointed out, in some of the different houses. | 32:50 | |
I don't know whether it came back or had stayed here, or? | 32:53 | |
Connie | Probably a little of both is my guess, maybe. | 32:57 |
Host | At that time, okay. | 33:04 |
This is now with Blue. | 33:07 | |
There's a community house and Ruth was living in it then? | 33:11 | |
Connie | Yes, Ruth lived here. | 33:16 |
This part over here | 33:18 | |
was partitioned off. | 33:21 | |
Visitors would sleep out there, | 33:23 | |
and visitors would sleep out here. | 33:25 | |
And this was, that was Ruth's bedroom, | 33:27 | |
but people would meet here, | 33:30 | |
and have like potlucks and stuff. | 33:32 | |
And sometimes potlucks in the house where Blue lived, | 33:35 | |
and there was a little apartment building | 33:39 | |
off of that, which was Jane's studio. | 33:42 | |
And then, | 33:45 | |
after Jane died, then it became an apartment. | 33:47 | |
Cornelia lived there for a while. | 33:50 | |
Different people lived there. | 33:52 | |
Host | So it really was, at that point, | 33:56 |
becoming more of a women's community. | 33:59 | |
You're talking about having potlucks. | 34:00 | |
Connie | Yes and Ruth was very much a, | 34:02 |
she came from not lesbian communities, but communities. | 34:05 | |
That was peace community. | 34:11 | |
Bonnie | Was Ruth not a lesbian? | 34:13 |
Connie | She was, she called herself a lesbian. | 34:15 |
She was a lesbian, (chuckling) she wasn't really active. | 34:18 | |
She had a crush on several women, I remember, | 34:21 | |
and I was always encouraging her to act on it, | 34:25 | |
but she didn't. | 34:28 | |
(laughing) | ||
Said it was too much work and now I understand | 34:30 | |
where she was coming from. | 34:33 | |
(laughing) | 34:34 | |
Host | Well she had two sons, | 34:36 |
so she must've been married before. | 34:37 | |
Connie | Yes, she was. | 34:38 |
Host | Can you think of other? | 34:44 |
What kept you comin' out, well Vogel obviously kept you | 34:46 | |
comin' out here, | 34:48 | |
but what was it like to be here, | 34:49 | |
'cause nowadays people mostly come here on vacation. | 34:52 | |
Connie | There was always women coming through, | 34:58 |
and there was always people, to me. | 35:01 | |
There was, my boat was out here for a long time. | 35:04 | |
I had a sailboat and we'd go out on that, | 35:08 | |
and then Sandy and Randy, who was | 35:12 | |
my lover later, | 35:17 | |
they had their boat here. | 35:19 | |
Sister and everybody went out on that. | 35:20 | |
So there was lots of women and the potlucks, | 35:23 | |
and one of the ways that I really related was Dream Group. | 35:29 | |
We met for, I don't, | 35:33 | |
Carol would know 'cause I'm still in contact with her. | 35:35 | |
But I think we must've met for 17 years | 35:39 | |
or somethin'. | 35:44 | |
We did it for a long time, | 35:45 | |
and we got to know each other | 35:47 | |
on a deep level, I think. | 35:52 | |
That was really good. | 35:54 | |
There was this whole thing of winter visitors at one point. | 35:56 | |
Women came down and stayed, they camp in the campground, | 36:01 | |
they camp across the street. | 36:05 | |
Ruth actually purchased the land that's next door | 36:08 | |
because she didn't want people encroaching | 36:11 | |
on the land. | 36:14 | |
So there was a... | 36:19 | |
Let's see, what was the question? | 36:22 | |
(laughing) | 36:23 | |
Host | What was it like, you've answered that. | 36:24 |
There were lots of people coming through. | 36:28 | |
There was this Dream group. | 36:30 | |
This is Ruth's Dream group? | 36:31 | |
Connie | This is, Ruth called herself Ruth Dream-Digger. | 36:33 |
She was the one that started it. | 36:38 | |
It was, when she said it to me, | 36:40 | |
my eyes lit up | 36:44 | |
because it's still one of my favorite things to do. | 36:45 | |
I love symbolism, I love digging into that | 36:48 | |
sort of stuff and it just... | 36:53 | |
Host | I'm in a Dream group too, | 36:57 |
and we use Jeremy Taylor's book. | 36:58 | |
But Bonnie said Ruth had her own. | 37:01 | |
Connie | Well it's mostly kinda, | 37:04 |
what we did was Gestalt stuff. | 37:06 | |
Host | That is a way of fostering, | 37:15 |
having regular community-like events, | 37:17 | |
was a way of fostering this sense of women's community. | 37:21 | |
I keep imagining this essay called Woman's Land, | 37:24 | |
Women's Space and on the subject of why, | 37:27 | |
why Women's Land needs to be, | 37:33 | |
or needed to or whether it's continued-- | 37:37 | |
Connie | I miss, I wish it, | 37:40 |
trust me, I wish it was still here. | 37:42 | |
It was the, I really felt at home. | 37:48 | |
It was a place | 37:53 | |
where I felt at home, | 37:54 | |
and connected. | 37:57 | |
Lesbians got together in bars and if you don't | 38:02 | |
do bars and you don't have any other connection | 38:06 | |
other than drinking, it's a lonely place to be. | 38:11 | |
Bonnie | That's such a good point, yeah. | 38:15 |
Connie | I'm sorry myself that it seems | 38:22 |
to have fallen apart. | 38:25 | |
And maybe it's not in other places. | 38:27 | |
Maybe it's just that I'm stuck down here, | 38:29 | |
but hadn't seem to, | 38:31 | |
don't get out. | 38:34 | |
But I did, I really did try to make connections. | 38:34 | |
I've taken several trips and called people that, | 38:38 | |
that are on these lists, that they'll say | 38:43 | |
this and that and the other. | 38:45 | |
It really never much happened. | 38:47 | |
Somebody, I was in Minnesota and call somebody | 38:50 | |
and they were like, | 38:54 | |
"Oh, why don't you try the internet?" | 38:55 | |
I'm like oh thanks. | 38:56 | |
(laughing) | 38:58 | |
So it's just the world, it's-- | 39:00 | |
Bonnie | Like contact dikes. | 39:02 |
Connie | Yeah, yeah. | 39:03 |
Bonnie | The lesbian world is really a lot different. | 39:06 |
Connie | What is the magazine that they put out? | 39:10 |
That Lesbian Land magazine? | 39:12 | |
- | MACE. | 39:14 |
- | No, it's not MACE, it's. | |
Bonnie | Sheila's Directory? | 39:19 |
- | I'm trying-- | 39:20 |
- | Lesbian Connections? | |
Connie | Lesbian Connections, | 39:22 |
and I tried to use that when I went across country | 39:24 | |
and I didn't really have very much success at all. | 39:27 | |
But I mean, | 39:31 | |
that could've just been my luck, | 39:34 | |
but it's that whole thing of it's a different world. | 39:35 | |
People connect different ways and this was, | 39:39 | |
for me, a wonderful way to connect, | 39:42 | |
'cause you really didn't have to do anything | 39:44 | |
except show up because the women always came through. | 39:47 | |
And maybe that's the thing about it being-- | 39:51 | |
Bonnie | On the Land made it happen. | 39:53 |
Connie | The Women, | 39:55 |
The Women and The Women on the Lands, | 39:56 | |
their connections made it happen. | 39:59 | |
And the fact that people just came here. | 40:02 | |
Part of it, of course is because it's winter. | 40:05 | |
It was very different in the summer here | 40:09 | |
than it was in the winter. | 40:11 | |
- | Really? | |
Connie | In the summer, everything was pretty | 40:12 |
sparse and deserted. | 40:17 | |
The women that actually lived here were here, | 40:19 | |
but it was really, it's a different thing. | 40:22 | |
In the winter, lots and lots of visitors. | 40:26 | |
Host | Bonnie said there were 105 visitors last year. | 40:31 |
- | Wow. | 40:34 |
- | Went through here, which was | |
a stress, I guess, on the fieldies. | 40:36 | |
Connie | Yeah, that's a lot of people. | 40:40 |
Host | Especially when you don't have | 40:47 |
somebody like Blue, | 40:51 | |
who's just the host with the most kind of thing. | 40:53 | |
(laughing) | 40:57 | |
- | Right, right. | |
She played that role very well. | 40:58 | |
And that's part of, | 41:00 | |
and she loved it. | 41:02 | |
She loved women and it was obvious. | 41:04 | |
She was welcome. | 41:09 | |
You never felt like she was too tired | 41:12 | |
to deal with somebody because that was, | 41:14 | |
that was her thing, that's what brought her spirits up. | 41:17 | |
When she, when she knew she was dying, | 41:29 | |
or actually maybe she knew she was dying, | 41:32 | |
but she just hadn't admitted it to herself. | 41:35 | |
That's when the whole land trust started. | 41:38 | |
And that was with Sally Willoughby, | 41:42 | |
who also lived here, | 41:44 | |
not full time, | 41:47 | |
but she lived here in the winters for many years. | 41:48 | |
So she might be somebody really to talk to. | 41:51 | |
- | Who's that? | 41:53 |
- | Sally Willoughby. | |
Host | Yeah, I have her name, I don't have | 41:58 |
her contact information. | 41:59 | |
Bonnie told me a good bit about her, | 42:01 | |
and she's in a lot of the pictures. | 42:03 | |
Was important. | 42:06 | |
Connie | Yeah so she really | 42:08 |
was encouraged Blue to do the land trust thing. | 42:11 | |
And I really feel like | 42:16 | |
they wanted local people | 42:18 | |
on the land trust. | 42:20 | |
I was one of the original | 42:22 | |
board members, and was part of that process because | 42:25 | |
there was a connection. | 42:30 | |
I felt like the community went beyond just | 42:32 | |
the Women's Land. | 42:36 | |
Bonnie | Yeah. | 42:41 |
It being, | 42:45 | |
it was a networking kind of. | 42:50 | |
It was a place where you could network, | 42:52 | |
where people, | 42:54 | |
and it is a web, | 42:56 | |
and it reached out. | 43:00 | |
It's not just about growing mangoes. | 43:03 | |
Connie | Right. | 43:06 |
(laughing) | 43:07 | |
No. | 43:08 | |
- | And it's a place | |
where you could come and you could get information. | 43:09 | |
Pergoda was the same way. | 43:11 | |
When they really happened that's, | 43:13 | |
you can go to, | 43:16 | |
you can come in from the outside and find out | 43:17 | |
what's happening across the country even, | 43:20 | |
and the newest books. | 43:23 | |
Connie | Yeah absolutely. | 43:27 |
And I've got some pictures of the women, | 43:29 | |
some of the women that I think they ended up | 43:32 | |
in St. Augustine or something with their book mobile. | 43:35 | |
They had a lesbian book mobile | 43:38 | |
that they used to bring down here. | 43:40 | |
- | Oh neat! | 43:42 |
- | Oh wow. | |
Bonnie | Wonder if that was Rusty and David. | 43:44 |
Maybe. | 43:47 | |
Book Mobile. | 43:48 | |
Connie | Let me show ya their pictures, | 43:49 |
(laughing) here again. | 43:52 | |
I don't know their names. | 43:53 | |
This is one of the women right there. | 43:54 | |
Bonnie | Okay. | 43:55 |
That's the villa. | 43:58 | |
(laughing) | 43:59 | |
That's the villa! | 44:00 | |
Okay. | 44:01 | |
I've gotta make a note of this. | 44:04 | |
Bonnie | I'll be darned. | 44:05 |
Connie | Got a pen there somewhere. | 44:07 |
Oh did your pen go. | 44:09 | |
I got all my pictures all spread out all over the place. | 44:10 | |
Host | In the, well where? | 44:15 |
The pen, she's got one. | 44:18 | |
Will that work? | 44:20 | |
Connie | Sure, yeah. | 44:21 |
I was just gonna write on here. | 44:22 | |
You care if I write on this? | 44:23 | |
Host | Nope. | 44:24 |
As long as it's on the back. | 44:26 | |
- | Don't get bent too much. | |
You wanna pen that doesn't indent-- | 44:28 | |
- | At the top, maybe. | 44:31 |
- | Bright lights. | |
Host | And this was Cornelius? | 44:34 |
Connie | No, that is Claudia. | 44:36 |
- | Claudia. | 44:37 |
- | And she really, | |
she gave her heart and soul. | 44:40 | |
And here's, and this must be Sivila Hawk's girlfriend | 44:42 | |
of the moment or friend or whatever | 44:46 | |
because they usually traveled together down here. | 44:48 | |
That's my memory of it. | 44:50 | |
- | They came-- | 44:53 |
- | And this was Blue's | |
present girlfriend at the corral meet anyway. | 44:54 | |
I can't remember her name either. | 44:57 | |
I think she's from some of those peace groups. | 44:59 | |
Bonnie | These things are wet, aren't they? | 45:04 |
(laughing) | 45:06 | |
- | I know! | |
Can you believe it? | 45:07 | |
Just the, my luck. | 45:08 | |
What I can't. | 45:10 | |
If anybody could do that, it would be. | 45:12 | |
And see there's a picture of Blue working on my house. | 45:17 | |
I'm telling you that, they just, | 45:20 | |
it's far-reaching into the community. | 45:24 | |
(crickets chirping) | 45:28 | |
And there's Vogel painting | 45:32 | |
the Women's Flag Football Association truck. | 45:35 | |
That was... | 45:39 | |
Bonnie | I met somebody from that flag football. | 45:42 |
Connie | You did? | 45:44 |
- | Yeah, well. | 45:45 |
- | It ruined that. | |
They're recruiting people. | 45:53 | |
Connie | I'm sure she's always recruiting. | 45:55 |
This is, that's a picture of Jane going, | 45:57 | |
we were going up to the march. | 46:00 | |
That was before we left. | 46:03 | |
There maybe some place we stopped a lot. | 46:05 | |
Host | Is this you and? | 46:07 |
Connie | No, that's Vogel and Jane. | 46:08 |
Host | This is Vogel and Jane, okay. | 46:09 |
Going to a peach march? | 46:12 | |
- | No, we're going up | |
to the gay and lesbian march in Washington. | 46:15 | |
Host | That would be the, well. | 46:21 |
Connie | We think it's '87. | 46:22 |
- | '87. | |
- | I think it's '86. | 46:24 |
- | There was one in '93 too, | |
and one in '78, no it couldn't have been one in '78. | 46:27 | |
Well maybe there was. | 46:31 | |
Okay. | 46:35 | |
There was one in '93. | 46:36 | |
- | I think this was '87. | |
I think somehow I got with some people, | 46:38 | |
and figured it out. | 46:41 | |
(laughing) | 46:43 | |
Host | That is '87. | 46:44 |
Bonnie | There was one that's for sure then. | 46:46 |
Connie | 'Cause I'm trying to think of how long | 46:48 |
Jane's been gone. | 46:50 |
Item Info
The preservation of the Duke University Libraries Digital Collections and the Duke Digital Repository programs are supported in part by the Lowell and Eileen Aptman Digital Preservation Fund