Allen Building Crisis: Tape #8 / Silent Vigil (1968) and Allen Building Takeover (1969) Audio Recordings / Duke Digital Repository

-

As a mob of people in force, I will not

0:03

deal with you that way, I cannot.

0:08

But you know that.

0:10

Oh I've heard many things before too.

0:14

I would like to say these things

0:20

hoping they have some meaning for you.

0:23

The primary concern that brings you here today and the.

0:31

Wait.

0:42

Don't go running too hard.

0:52

Let's pick out one concern about many.

1:03

The concern of this university for all its students,

1:07

your particular concern and mine for our black students

1:11

and for other students, too.

1:19

That's the one thing I hope you will let me keep clear

1:24

in what I say to you.

1:30

Simply that the justice

1:33

we must do and with all the faults

1:39

of this country are trying to do

1:41

has got to be justice for the whole country.

1:46

The end of the political speech right there

1:51

except that I happen to mean it

1:54

and I think all of you know the things

1:58

that we have been trying to do.

2:00

Some that we have in fact done, some that we had done

2:05

some months ago before a group of demands

2:10

were presented to me a few days ago.

2:15

Now my concern when I talk about the whole university

2:23

is that we have to have

2:32

a legitimate chance to take the questions raised

2:36

one by one and try to see how they can be

2:43

either solved one by one or understood

2:48

as insoluble right now.

2:51

Let me take a very specific example for you.

2:55

The demands which were presented to me

2:59

to use the words of those of you who gave them to me,

3:02

included a recommendation about a certain percentage

3:08

of black students in the university by a certain time.

3:11

If one puts this demand in that form,

3:17

it's not one that I have either the authority

3:22

or the judgment to commit the university to.

3:26

If one can discuss that question in some other way,

3:32

then I think it can be

3:36

handled with reason.

3:40

I don't think you can just take a percentage and say,

3:44

"Yes, we've committed to a percentage."

3:47

I don't think that's justice for those whom you take

3:50

or for other students in the university,

3:54

therefore for the place as a whole

3:57

I don't think it's a wise way to go.

3:59

It is the pressure created by that kind of absolute demand

4:03

and then the occupation of a building

4:10

that gives one no room to move and no chance

4:14

to solve a problem no matter how much he wants to.

4:19

-

They did it at Brandai.

4:26

-

They did it at Brandai.

4:27

-

They are still at work doing it at Brandai.

4:29

(crowd murmuring and laughing)

4:32

I would like a little time to work on the request.

4:42

(crowd murmuring)

4:46

And I would also like, we can't do it this way.

4:50

(crowd murmuring)

4:53

Alright, alright, and I have

4:56

quite courage enough to have said it some time ago, too.

5:00

I don't need your reminder.

5:03

(crowd murmuring)

5:06

No, you all knew that.

5:09

-

I thank you, Dr. Knight.

5:13

-

Will you grant amnesty?

5:15

-

Dr. Knight, this university was committed

5:17

to the defense of blacks 12 years ago,

5:19

why can't you commit to it now?

5:21

-

It's too big now.

5:23

-

Maybe people could live in your house.

5:26

(crowd murmuring and laughing)

5:28

-

That would be an easy solution.

5:34

-

What about amnesty?

5:36

-

Yeah, what about amnesty?

5:37

Can't you say something about that?

5:41

-

Yes I can.

5:42

-

Quiet.

5:43

-

As I recall it, when some of you

5:46

were in Allen Building two days ago

5:50

this question came up and it was made clear at that time

5:52

that amnesty was not a condition of your leaving,

5:57

am I not correct?

6:01

I cannot offer it now.

6:03

Crowd

Why.

6:05

(crowd murmuring)

6:08

-

The problem is you've never really shown good faith.

6:13

All you're doing is what you think you always have to do

6:16

to placate a few people but if you really wanted to show us

6:18

that you wanted to do something, you could do a lot

6:21

of things right now.

6:23

(applauding)

6:24

-

You could call the police in a few hours.

6:34

-

You can cancel your radio program.

6:36

-

Nobody's calling the police.

6:38

-

I can, they're down the road.

6:41

(crowd laughing)

6:43

-

You will give us time to work on collective bargaining

6:46

last year and we don't have it, baby.

6:48

-

I see you have your, yes, yes.

6:52

(crowd murmuring)

6:57

-

This is the same cold gray box that we're hearing today.

7:00

Now I would like for you to say why you can't meet

7:04

these very reasonable demands that are made on you

7:09

by the black people that the more progressive universities

7:11

in this country are making at this time.

7:14

-

Right on.

7:16

(applauding)

7:17

-

And I will give you this answer.

7:27

That we have met several of those demands as you call them

7:30

and you know it and we will work with the others

7:35

as fast as we can if we have that chance.

7:40

-

We've already heard that answer.

7:43

-

Alright, it's the truth.

7:46

(crowd murmuring)

7:47

It's the truth.

7:48

-

That's the attitude that we've had the whole goddamn time.

7:50

-

Why weren't the blacks allowed to participate in this,

7:53

that's what we want to know and why can't junior faculty

7:57

members who have some touch with the students

8:00

participate in the whole thing, this is what we want.

8:03

(applause)

8:06

-

Right on.

8:08

-

Rap to em, Chuck.

8:14

-

Dr. Knight.

8:20

-

No, yeah, good.

-

Here are the demands, address yourself to each one of them

8:23

as you've so committed to have done.

8:25

-

I'd like to go back to this question first.

8:28

Alright, so do I, so do I

8:34

and I'm sorry that the things that have been done

8:40

between April and now simply fit your idea

8:42

of nothing at all because they have been considerable.

8:48

-

You're treading water.

8:54

-

No we're not just treading water.

8:56

Now let's take a look at these right now

8:59

and let's look at the people who have to be involved

9:05

in each of them and you say,

9:10

"Why can't certain groups be involved?"

9:13

They can and they are and they should be.

9:17

(crowd murmuring)

9:21

-

To justify you, not the constituency of this university,

9:22

the students and the black people.

9:25

-

In many cases, they are recommended or selected by others

9:30

as recommendations to me which I take.

9:35

-

I'd like to start with number one.

9:40

This is the first demand and this what we gonna do

9:42

and that's the way we gonna do it and that's how

9:47

we gonna do it and then I will give y'all

9:49

a written statement telling y'all that's what we gonna do,

9:51

do that.

9:54

(applause)

9:55

-

Right on, right on.

9:57

-

Now, I know.

10:01

I will comment as one person

10:06

on these questions.

10:09

Alright, alright hold it.

10:12

If you think I have just all by myself the authority

10:15

to say, "Sure, let it be so," that is not the truth.

10:19

(crowd murmuring)

10:25

That's not the truth, either.

10:27

-

Let him talk.

10:29

-

I'll tell you what I feel

10:32

can be done, what I feel has been done,

10:36

what I feel we can reasonably work on,

10:39

what I feel is not possible at this time

10:42

or simply not reasonable and I don't see

10:46

that any one man can do more than that.

10:50

(crowd murmuring)

10:53

Alright.

10:58

After a great deal of pressure.

11:02

(crowd murmuring)

11:05

You wanted to know about these questions I believe.

11:09

-

Just answer the questions today.

11:13

-

That's exactly what I'm trying to do.

11:16

(crowd murmuring)

11:18

(crowd laughing)

11:25

Alright.

11:28

This request

11:31

for the Department of Afro-American Studies.

11:34

As you know, the committee of the faculty and students

11:37

has been working on this for some time.

11:40

-

What students?

11:42

(crowd murmuring)

11:43

-

And it is just reported to me.

11:46

Not today, the committee was establish back in the fall

11:51

that you all knew about.

11:53

-

Knew about?

11:55

-

Dr. Knight, can you answer your replies after you

11:58

give them each time, so we understand

12:01

why they're not satisfied because I think

12:04

that's the question on everybody's mind

12:06

(papers rustling)

12:08

so would it be alright if he sort of answered them

12:11

afterwards and explained why they're not satisfied?

12:14

(crowd murmuring)

12:16

-

Alright, alright.

12:18

(applause)

12:21

-

Let's listen to him, let's hear about stuff on the ground.

12:26

(crowd laughing)

12:31

Like number one if he gonna speak to the grievances

12:32

don't be giving him other questions

12:35

to get him off the track.

12:37

Let him talk for each single thing and then let's try

12:39

to relate to it so we can move on.

12:42

(applause)

12:45

-

Thank you for that, Mr. Fuller.

12:53

The Department of Afro-American Studies

12:58

is one that the faculty committee has recommended.

13:01

It's gonna take some time to put it together

13:07

and put it together properly as a part of this university

13:10

you can be proud of.

13:14

It's got to be approved by the whole faculty,

13:16

but these were respected members of the faculty

13:22

who studied it and recommended it to us.

13:25

Let me make one thing clear about it.

13:29

A great many of the courses that make the best sense

13:31

in that department are already being taught

13:35

in the university.

13:39

(crowd murmuring)

13:41

Yes they are and there will be others.

13:42

-

Let him talk.

13:45

-

There will be others that I'm sure

13:47

together we'll want to work out.

13:49

I'm certain of that.

13:53

Nobody says this is a finished and completed package at all,

13:55

the question is whether one honestly in good faith

13:59

has worked toward this department and the answer

14:04

is yes, it's been going on for some time.

14:08

(airplane engine droning)

14:11

(crowd murmuring)

14:15

(crowd laughing)

14:21

Is that an unfair statement?

14:26

-

It's an unfair statement and first of all,

14:28

as he's indicated at the beginning of his talk,

14:32

there's been some question as to whether he himself

14:35

has the power to really start up the course here.

14:38

So there's some question in our mind whether we should

14:42

even be talking to him, like who runs this place?

14:45

Who makes these decisions?

14:48

First of all, if such a program is being developed,

14:49

one that we can all be proud of, one that's one of the best

14:54

in the country, how can it be one of the best

14:58

in the country, how can black people be proud of it

15:00

if black people from the beginning and in the process

15:03

have had no meaningful participation,

15:07

instead another program, who developed this program?

15:10

We had no part in developing this program.

15:13

-

Right on.

15:16

(applause)

15:17

-

We don't plan to and we will not accept

15:20

and Afro-American Studies Program

15:24

resulting out of shifting around of some courses

15:26

that the President taught here at this university.

15:29

We recognize that the people,

15:32

especially in these departments,

15:34

the people who run these departments are old people

15:36

who are not qualified to deal with

15:39

what we are talking about, they not qualified to relate

15:41

to black people, they're not qualified to relate

15:43

to a Black Studies Program.

15:45

We will not accept such a program

15:49

being forced down our throats.

15:52

You can name it a Black Studies Program,

15:54

but it's not a Black Studies Program.

15:56

It's something you've thrown together to appease people.

15:58

(applause)

16:01

-

Right on.

(crowd moaning)

16:09

-

No.

16:10

-

Chuck, one thing if I may speak to that just a minute.

16:12

The one thing I'd like to add to it

16:16

is that I don't think it's completely fair

16:19

just to chop it down as something created to appease people

16:21

cause I don't think that's quite the truth.

16:25

It does include things that have already been done,

16:27

it does include the work of people who know

16:30

a good deal about Africa,

16:33

though some of them happen to be white.

16:34

And nobody has said that it's a completed program.

16:37

We have said there are the pieces and parts

16:42

of the beginning of one what is what we're trying to get at.

16:44

-

What about black participation?

16:47

That's a key issue.

16:49

Where were we, were we told about this committee?

16:52

We don't even know who's on this committee.

16:53

-

I think that you were told about it, Chuck.

16:56

-

We were not told about this committee.

16:59

-

Afterwards, right?

17:01

(crowd murmuring)

17:02

-

I still would say that this is something

17:07

the faculty of the university has been working on

17:09

and has its job to work on and has not been denied.

17:12

-

Why is it that the only committee that this school has

17:16

that deals with Africa, the people who sit

17:21

on that committee, the grants and so forth they receive

17:24

to study Africa all come from the Republic of South Africa?

17:26

(crowd murmuring)

17:31

I'm speaking specifically to Edgar Thompson

17:32

and the Sociology Department and other props.

17:34

-

That, Chuck, just isn't so.

17:38

(crowd murmuring)

17:40

-

Does any money come from South Africa?

17:45

-

If money comes from South Africa, I don't know about it.

17:48

-

South Africa, right now.

17:53

-

I know South Africa is, yeah.

17:54

-

Let's move to the next one.

17:57

-

Let's look at this one.

17:58

(crowd laughing)

18:02

-

I think we're trying to handle that one.

18:04

Yes, Mr. Fuller?

18:06

-

I didn't hear you say, though,

18:11

what were y'all gonna do in terms of,

18:12

are y'all ready to set up a structure

18:16

that is number one, gonna involve black students,

18:19

that is number two, gonna bring in where you don't have

18:23

the knowledge on Duke's campus, to bring in black people

18:28

who have set up black studies programs

18:31

such as from Federal Cities College,

18:34

such as Finish Campbell, such as James Turner,

18:37

to be involved in the structuring

18:39

of the Afro Studies Program?

18:43

-

Yes or no?

18:44

-

Are y'all ready, are y'all prepared to give black students

18:45

the voice and the control of various aspects

18:49

of the Afro Studies Program,

18:52

are y'all ready to do something like that?

18:53

-

Yes or no.

18:56

(crowd laughing)

18:57

-

I'm not gonna answer that question

19:02

for the faculty of this university.

19:03

(crowd murmuring)

19:06

-

Answer for yourself.

19:09

-

I'd be happy to answer it for myself.

19:11

-

Yes or no?

19:14

-

Wait a minute.

19:15

-

Hey, quiet.

19:17

-

Wait a minute.

19:18

You've suggested some of the ways in which

19:22

one might put together a good program.

19:25

Are those the only ways, I think not.

19:27

But they're some of the good ways.

19:29

If those and others are the proper ways

19:32

and the faculty of this university wants to use them,

19:35

the answer is yes, I'm not gonna commit it beforehand.

19:37

-

Here's what I'm saying, see we can't communicate

19:42

cause what I'm saying, what the black students are saying

19:45

is that the crucial aspect of the whole thing

19:48

is their involvement, their ability to control it

19:50

and you won't relate to that question.

19:53

-

I'll relate to that question.

19:56

Their involvement is absolutely crucial.

19:58

(crowd murmuring)

20:01

As it's put together.

20:04

As, I didn't say after.

20:10

But, now wait a minute.

20:13

-

I'm not talking to you then

20:15

because you don't have power to deal with this.

20:17

We talking to Dr. Knight.

20:19

So your thing is talking about faculty members

20:21

and I'm talking about control

20:23

and how you gonna make the whole thing up

20:25

and you talking about leave it to faculty.

20:27

I'm talking about we gonna make up the whole

20:29

Afro Studies Program to start with,

20:31

that's what we talking about.

20:34

We saying that black students gotta be involved in it.

20:36

(applause)

20:39

-

Alright, alright.

20:41

Alright, now.

20:43

Will you let me add to that involved

20:46

and not controlling all by themselves?

20:51

Not controlling, because other people

20:55

have to be involved too, the faculty who are gonna teach it,

20:57

the administrators have got to support it.

21:01

Is that a fair way to look at it?

21:05

-

Are you saying that we gonna go back

21:09

and we gonna start all over for the whole thing

21:11

of Afro Studies Program and we gonna get black students

21:14

and other black community leaders involved in it

21:18

right from the jump and that sort of thing

21:21

is the thing to do, is that what you're saying?

21:24

-

Yes I am, but I'm not saying

21:27

that any one group controls it.

21:29

-

I didn't ask that question yet, I asked the question-

21:32

-

I answered that question, though.

21:36

-

That's your answer, you are gonna do that?

21:38

-

Now wait a minute, wait a minute.

21:41

(crowd laughing)

21:42

I'm not trying to play games with you.

21:48

-

What about playing them, too?

21:50

-

You're playing them with me, now don't do it, don't do it.

21:52

(crowd booing)

21:55

(crowd murmuring)

21:57

-

Yeah, what is it?

22:04

-

I think the problem is that two days ago

22:06

almost everyone who was here, especially the black students

22:08

believed that the administration was in good faith

22:11

or didn't think about the question at all.

22:14

Now there are a lot of people in the university

22:16

doubt the good faith of the administration

22:18

and it's necessary for this to stop.

22:21

You see, there are two ways for this to stop.

22:23

-

I see.

22:26

-

There's violence where it can get to a point

22:27

where people simply go home

22:28

cause they don't want to get hurt anymore.

22:29

-

Right.

22:30

-

But then you're gonna have more people

22:31

who doubt your good faith the more violence you use.

22:33

You see, cause you already managed, in one day,

22:35

by making the police intervene for whatever reason you had,

22:38

granted you multiply by about hundred

22:41

the number of people who doubted your good faith

22:44

and our response is used again that that'll happen again.

22:46

Now the other alternative, some dramatic gesture

22:49

by the administration of this university

22:52

which will satisfy the black students, alright?

22:56

Something which they'll say to us, "These men are straight

22:58

"and we're working with them now under conditions

23:02

"we understand and accept."

23:04

Now if you can make a gesture like that, believe me,

23:06

this entire crisis will dissolve.

23:08

If you can't, it's gonna be very hard without making

23:11

a commitment like that get anywhere

23:15

and we're gonna end up back again with violence.

23:16

(applause)

23:19

-

And is the violence gonna solve

23:27

the problem we want to solve?

23:29

(crowd murmuring)

23:31

Nobody wants to procrastinate it.

23:37

No one wants to procrastinate, it was slowed down

23:40

when that building was occupied and you know it.

23:45

(crowd murmuring)

23:48

-

That's when violence started,

23:53

when they rolled out that girl.

23:54

-

No.

23:57

-

And there are many people who don't know.

23:59

-

A cop car.

24:00

-

The people here who sort of sympathize

24:02

with the blacks as opposed to the administration.

24:04

-

Sure.

24:07

-

Can't sympathize with the administration

24:08

as opposed to the blacks and some people

24:09

are really firmly committed to the blacks,

24:11

but most of us are sort of in the middle.

24:13

What I'm saying is that if you want to get us

24:15

together again, alright, you don't have the same kinds

24:18

of alternatives you had two days ago.

24:21

It's all changed now because the police intervened

24:23

and so many people doubt you.

24:26

You don't have the same kinds of alternatives

24:27

and the same kind of slow gradual development

24:29

under the normal standard procedures and channels

24:32

of a Black Studies Program and all these other things.

24:35

This isn't gonna solve our problem, either,

24:38

no more than will violence but I think that's why

24:40

a few of you make now a dramatic gesture

24:42

which commits you to the full extent of your power

24:45

to satisfy the demands of the black students.

24:48

(applause)

24:51

-

And you're aware as you say that,

24:59

of the things that limit my power, okay?

25:01

(crowd murmuring)

25:05

-

What are they?

25:06

-

Now don't talk to me as though I weren't speaking

25:11

to you like a man, there's no need for insults.

25:13

I didn't insult you.

25:17

(crowd murmuring)

25:20

I took my responsibility for what many of you

25:25

resent so much and I didn't try to conceal that.

25:29

-

Do you pledge not to do it again, sir?

25:36

(crowd laughing)

25:38

-

I happen to have been working as hard as I could work

25:40

for some of the good things in this region,

25:44

not the violent things.

25:47

-

Name one.

25:48

-

And there are some of you, including Mr. Fuller,

25:51

who know that and also if you want to measure it,

25:53

I suggest that you measure it by the amount of hate

25:58

that people on the far right in our political community

26:01

have for me, you talk about.

26:04

(crowd laughing)

26:07

Yes, some of them.

26:09

(applause)

Perhaps some, you know who many of the others are

26:13

and you know perfectly well the unpopular positions

26:18

I've taken in the support of this.

26:21

-

Get back to.

26:24

-

Alright, alright.

But you want to talk about good faith.

26:26

I've been putting myself on the line in this one

26:29

long before you decided it was a two day issue

26:31

or an eight hour issue or anything else.

26:34

(crowd murmuring)

26:37

And I want a little recognition for that.

26:39

-

Give him a hand.

26:42

-

Forget the damn hand.

26:43

That's not my point, my point is I really have been

26:47

concerned about these things and taken my risk for them.

26:50

And I know you've taken your risk for them.

26:56

-

You'll get your reward for your risk.

26:58

(crowd murmuring)

27:00

-

Nothing I ask for, friends.

27:02

-

Back to the demands.

27:05

-

Nothing I ask for.

27:06

-

Back to the demands.

-

Now how about taking a look

27:12

at this matter of a black dormitory.

27:16

Will you let me phrase it or put it the way

27:22

you yourselves put it, which was the living/learning

27:25

community you said you wanted, with a chance

27:28

of black students primarily to choose those

27:32

who would live there cause it was gonna be

27:34

an Afro-American Studies, that's the way it was presented

27:36

and that's the way it can legally be presented

27:40

and considered; if you call it a black dormitory on campus

27:42

it's just as segregated as calling

27:48

some other things all white.

27:52

(crowd murmuring)

27:54

-

Sigma Kai.

27:56

-

Alright, and they've had to give it up

27:58

and we're not gonna reestablish it.

28:00

-

Oh they had to give it up?

28:02

-

Yes they did and the heat had to be put on them

28:03

and it was and that happened.

28:08

-

Where are the black students

28:11

in those dormitories, Dr. Knight?

28:12

-

Well now you want to guarantee white ones

28:13

in the Afro-American dormitory?

28:15

-

If you can guarantee black ones in the white dormitories

28:17

then perhaps you can talk to the Afros

28:20

about guaranteeing white students in their dormitories.

28:21

(crowd murmuring)

28:23

-

I'm just trying to get at the point raised here

28:27

in question two, that this is a feasible thing to do

28:30

as long as it's part of the program of the university,

28:33

not if you say it's a separate black dormitory.

28:37

-

Don't you have the power to make it?

28:41

-

No, I don't have the power to make it

28:43

a separate black dormitory.

28:45

-

A fraternity in a black dormitory,

28:46

isn't that the same thing?

28:48

Isn't it a black fraternity more or less?

28:49

-

You can't have an all-white fraternity legally.

28:53

(crowd murmuring)

28:56

Wait a minute, let me just get the facts straight

29:01

for you on that one.

29:04

Outfits on this campus that wouldn't remove those clauses

29:06

had to remove themselves and some of the sororities did.

29:09

Two years ago.

29:13

Alright, alright.

29:16

If you're asking me why I can't change all of human nature

29:18

I'm sorry, I don't have an answer to that one.

29:21

Yes, I'm trying to help.

29:25

I'm sorry, I happen to believe many of the same things

29:28

you do, I know you doubt it, but it happens to be so.

29:31

None of us, yes please, but I want to go on

29:39

to this question two unless you want to go on to three.

29:41

-

I don't understand something about this.

29:44

It seems to me if you want to incorporate the blacks

29:46

into the system then the black dorm would incorporate them

29:47

very nicely by having segregated things.

29:50

-

Sure, I think that'd be the cheap answer.

29:53

Now look, if what you really want, as I believe you do,

29:57

as I hope we can talk about and not just in this setting

30:01

where the voice goes eventually.

30:06

If what you really want is a chance to establish identity,

30:10

your own self, your own way of life as other people want it,

30:18

if that's what you want then that's the thing

30:23

we can really take seriously and go with.

30:26

Now you said you want me to speak as a person.

30:29

I'm speaking as a person, maybe nobody else

30:31

will back me up on that.

30:33

I'm telling you one man's view of what this kind

30:35

of dormitory could mean.

30:38

If that's what it means then it makes sense.

30:40

If it just means a black dormitory where blackness

30:44

is blackness then I don't read that any more

30:46

than I read just whiteness is whiteness.

30:50

-

Another contradiction.

30:52

-

Will you tolerate it?

30:54

(crowd murmuring)

30:55

-

It's our right as black students on this campus

30:58

to establish a dormitory that we can choose

30:59

the people we want to live with and live there together,

31:02

that's what we talking about.

31:04

(crowd murmuring)

31:06

-

Dr. Knight?

31:08

-

Yes, i support very strongly the idea

31:09

that you choose those who live near you as students

31:12

as many of you do right now I take it.

31:17

The one thing that I'm trying to say to you

31:20

is that I can't support the idea of a dormitory

31:22

whose definition is that this is black

31:26

just because it's black.

31:30

-

I don't support the Ku Klux Klan

31:32

but they got the right to fund their organization.

31:34

(crowd laughing)

31:36

-

I don't think they've got the legal right to do it.

31:38

-

They're doing it.

31:40

-

They're doing it.

-

That's another matter.

31:42

They're doing it and I hope got back for it.

31:45

Why don't we do the thing that we can truly

31:51

and honestly do which is work on this identity manner?

31:55

-

We don't mention attention.

31:58

-

I know you don't.

32:00

(crowd murmuring)

32:01

-

Written down on a piece of paper in your language.

32:03

-

Okay, and I'm trying to answer you

32:06

as honestly as I can.

32:08

-

Dr. Knight?

32:09

-

Sir?

32:11

-

What are you gonna do about legality in Durham?

32:12

Where were you when the pigs (crowd murmuring)

32:14

tried to get all the black people in the school thrown out

32:18

and picketed the protest hearing,

32:21

what is your opinion on that?

32:23

-

He's only following orders.

32:24

(crowd laughing)

32:26

-

Nobody is trying to get anybody thrown out.

32:28

(crowd murmuring)

32:32

Wait a minute, let's clear something up about that.

32:33

Nobody who was in that building

32:39

has been thrown out of this university.

32:42

(crowd murmuring)

32:45

No.

Now wait a minute, hold it.

32:48

Just hold it a bit, hold it a bit.

32:50

The second go around there, the document that you were given

32:54

let's just get down to the facts of it

32:58

said that you were suspended pending those hearings,

33:01

isn't that right?

33:04

Alright, alright exactly.

33:06

Meanwhile it very clearly would be unfair

33:10

for any student who was there to have to leave this campus

33:14

later on to be found innocent after due process

33:19

and he'd have lost that time and all the rest of it.

33:25

-

Do you pledge amnesty to these students?

33:28

-

That's another question, we answered that one.

33:30

I'm trying to tell you that no student who was in there

33:33

and has been suspended ha been asked to leave classes.

33:38

We want you to go right on with those classes.

33:40

(crowd murmuring)

33:44

Amnesty means that we never carry though

33:45

on the due process.

33:50

We've got to carry through on it.

33:52

(crowd murmuring)

33:54

-

What about the first charges according to your own policy

33:57

and according to the procedures identified

33:58

by your own committee if you or your representative

33:59

doesn't prefer charges, nobody can, so you have the power

34:02

right now to say you're not gonna do it

34:05

and you're not gonna authorize it.

34:07

-

Right on.

34:08

(applause)

34:09

-

Let me ask you a question about it.

34:13

Would you at that point say that I had the same authority

34:15

when every one of who's ideas you detested

34:20

asked for that same right?

34:25

Would you like me to use my authority that way, would you?

34:28

-

The point is will you defend the ideas

34:32

of the black students?

34:34

-

No.

34:35

-

If the question is relevant.

If you don't.

34:37

-

Now wait a minute, wait a minute.

34:38

Let's not confuse two things here.

34:39

-

You're trying to confuse things.

34:41

-

No I'm sorry, but I'm not confused on this one.

34:42

We're all confused about some things right now

34:45

but I'm not confused on this one.

34:48

-

Back to the demands.

34:49

-

You've got to make a distinction

34:50

between acting irrationally because you believe

34:53

so much in the cause and trying to have some reason

34:56

and some justice for causes that you may believe in

35:00

or may not believe in, you've gotta have some common

35:05

basic justice, that's all.

35:07

(crowd murmuring)

35:09

And you can't have violence, you cannot have violence

35:10

as the base of justice.

35:13

-

You brought the cops in there.

35:14

(crowd murmuring)

35:16

-

The one thing I want to say.

35:17

-

It's cold out here, so look.

35:18

-

It is cold.

35:21

-

Alright well look, alright now

35:22

you claim that you don't have the power by yourself.

35:24

-

I do not.

35:26

-

Alright, would you be willing to get whoever you need

35:27

to make any kind of decision and meet with us tonight

35:31

and we sit down and we gonna write down

35:34

what you intend to do about these demands.

35:37

-

Right on.

35:39

-

And then we'll bring it back to you?

35:40

(applause)

35:41

-

I'll be very willing

35:48

to sit down with a group of you

35:51

that's a reasonable size group of you.

35:52

(crowd murmuring)

35:54

No, we're gonna sit down and talk.

35:56

We're gonna sit down and talk.

36:01

-

I think he's asking about plot is all.

36:03

-

Right.

36:05

-

Why don't you address and answer the man's question?

36:06

(crowd murmuring)

36:08

-

We all of us have our bosses, don't we?

36:10

All these people you think you need

36:12

to help you make a decision, that's who we want there.

36:15

-

I understand.

36:17

I understand exactly.

36:19

And yes, I was trying to say that.

36:22

-

Okay, you gonna do that?

36:25

-

With a reasonable group of you.

36:26

-

A reasonable number.

36:29

-

What you call a reasonable number?

36:30

-

Now wait a minute.

36:32

Wait a minute, let me ask this gentleman.

36:33

-

A reasonable number.

36:35

-

Of students.

36:37

-

Yeah, right.

36:38

Okay plus if you can't make the decision

36:43

you gonna have somebody with you who can, right?

36:46

-

That's okay, no one of us can do all these things.

36:49

-

I'm not trying to get in any words in,

36:53

I'm trying to talk facts.

36:54

-

I know, I know.

36:55

-

Alright it's gonna be you and maybe a couple more

36:56

people with you, right?

36:59

-

Yes.

37:01

(crowd murmuring)

37:02

Wait a minute.

37:05

-

People that you know can make a decision, right?

37:06

That needs to be made.

37:08

-

That can at least have some input into them, yes.

37:10

-

Okay.

37:12

-

Okay and that means faculty members.

37:13

(crowd murmuring)

37:15

-

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

37:16

You know perfectly well if you're gonna have order

37:17

in a university that means senior faculty

37:19

and it means trustees as well as members

37:23

of the administration and you all know that.

37:25

-

Okay.

37:28

-

Alright, alright, and you've got to give us

37:29

a reasonable chance to go at that one.

37:31

And it was that reasonable chance by the way

37:34

that was denied when you moved in on Allen Building.

37:37

(crowd murmuring)

37:39

-

We spent all of last semester

37:41

talking to those people, man.

37:42

-

Two days, this list turned up

37:43

two days before you moved in.

37:45

-

What time, what time is the meeting gonna be?

37:47

-

Amen.

37:52

(crowd laughing)

37:54

-

Amen and by the way, you have yourselves

37:57

and I've got me, okay?

37:59

Let's hope.

38:01

-

Are you willing to give sanctuary

38:04

in the environment of this deliberative place

38:06

for those that will wait in watchful anticipation

38:09

for your answer?

38:12

(crowd murmuring)

38:13

-

Like looking down at me like that's gonna be

38:15

wait and see what gonna go down.

38:17

-

No, it's not a question of that.

38:19

If we're gonna put it under pressure,

38:25

then we're not gonna do it.

38:27

If we can sit down and talk, then we can.

38:29

I'm just telling you, I'm trying to answer your question.

38:33

You put it in some fancy language yourself that time,

38:36

speaking of gray mush.

38:40

We won't do it under pressure.

38:41

(crowd murmuring)

38:43

-

Dr. Knight, Dr. Knight.

38:44

-

We won't do it under pressure, let's try it at eight, huh?

38:46

(crowd murmuring)

38:49

-

Where?

38:51

-

Where the meeting gonna be?

38:55

Where the meeting gonna be, where we gonna have it?

38:57

-

I can't tell you because I don't know.

38:59

(crowd murmuring)

39:01

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

39:02

Wait a minute, look, look.

39:06

Look, you've got to give me a chance to talk

39:08

with some other folks, haven't you?

39:10

I'm trying to be serious with you.

39:14

-

I have no problem with what you're saying.

39:15

-

Alright.

39:16

-

All I'm saying is like you have said.

39:17

-

And I'm not having one with you either.

39:19

-

That there's gonna be a meeting.

39:20

-

Right.

39:21

-

It is gonna be at 8:00.

39:22

-

Right.

39:23

-

You got to talk to your folks

39:24

and where they'd be willing to come to.

39:25

-

And you've got to do the same thing.

39:27

-

We coming, you know we renting.

39:29

(crowd murmuring and laughing)

39:31

(applause)

39:32

-

Yes indeed, on the campus.

39:35

-

And without this kind of pressured surroundings.

39:38

-

We not talking about pressure,

39:41

all we talking about is a meeting.

39:43

-

Alright, that's what I'm talking about.

39:44

-

Aright so we're together on that, right?

39:46

-

Right.

39:48

-

So you cold and I'm cold and since that's gonna be,

39:49

then we can split right now, right?

39:51

I mean we can leave.

39:54

(crowd laughing)

39:55

-

I read you, I read you, I read you.

39:56

Okay.

40:00

(crowd murmuring and laughing)

40:02

Do you read him?

40:05

-

Where's it gonna be?

40:06

-

Absolutely, I want to know which one of you gentleman

40:07

is going to talk with me about this?

40:11

(crowd murmuring)

40:13

No, wait a minute, wait a minute.

40:15

-

All we need is a designated place.

40:17

-

Yes, to work out the place where we can meet.

40:21

-

Alright alright, now let me go.

40:24

-

That's all, that's all.

40:26

That's not an unfair request.

40:29

(crowd murmuring)

40:31

We take it from there.

40:34

-

We'll meet anywhere on campus you want to meet.

40:36

All you gotta do, you can call 5795 on campus

40:38

and I'll be up there in the office waiting

40:42

and you can let me know then and we'll come

40:45

wherever on campus you want to meet.

40:48

-

We'll sit down together.

40:51

-

Like the rest of y'all, there aint gonna be no pressure

40:52

thing cause all of us in this thing,

40:54

all y'all like each other, it's all the Duke family,

40:56

so all the Duke family is gonna have a family gathering

40:59

to just talk to each other waiting to see what happens.

41:03

Aint no pressure, right?

41:06

Crowd

Right.

41:08

-

Can we get a tape recorder there?

41:09

-

Agreed, alright.

41:10

-

Let's go.

41:11

-

Just in case he forgets, there it is written there.

41:13

(crowd laughing)

41:16

-

And I might well forget.

41:18

Thank you for coming, he wants to come through.

41:22

-

Thank you, Dr. Knight.

41:24

-

Y'all wait to hear like where the start getting together

41:25

so you can find out what went down after the meeting.

41:28

-

Record the meeting.

41:32

-

I'll do it, we'll talk out our reasonable number

41:33

which I would say is about five of us each way.

41:36

(crowd murmuring)

41:40

Walk out now?

41:42

-

Will you announce it over the radio?

41:49

Are you still gonna make the speech?

41:51

-

No, no I think not.

41:53

I don't see how any one human being can produce all of it.

41:56

-

Dr. Knight, we're behind you as long as necessary.

42:01

-

In all good faith.

42:04

Believe me, I am.

42:05

-

We're behind you too, sir.

42:07

-

Okay.

42:08

Thank you very much.

42:11

Allen Building Crisis: Tape #8

Transcript

Item Info

Duke University Archives

More Info & Options