Allen Building Crisis: Tape #2
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
B.J. | Tried to debilitate anybody else | 0:02 |
in this goddamned world. | 0:04 | |
This is something that should be done, | 0:06 | |
and we've tried in every other way within our power | 0:08 | |
to get the man to understand what our demands are. | 0:12 | |
They're not unreasonable, | 0:16 | |
they don't take two and a half years to realize. | 0:17 | |
We're not planning on anything like at Columbia, | 0:20 | |
that's his bag, he figured that out, he made that up. | 0:23 | |
He's trying, look, he's, who called the pigs? | 0:25 | |
He called the pigs in! | 0:29 | |
He called the pigs in because he thinks | 0:31 | |
that's the thing to do! | 0:33 | |
- | You mean Dr. Knight? | |
B.J. | Dr. Knight, if he called them in, yes. | 0:35 |
We didn't call any pigs in. | 0:38 | |
We understood one thing. | 0:39 | |
We've occupied a building, we're asking for | 0:41 | |
our final demands that were presented | 0:44 | |
two and a half years ago! | 0:48 | |
Who made a Columbia? | 0:51 | |
We didn't make any goddamned Columbia. | 0:53 | |
We didn't, the only thing that we're doing here, | 0:54 | |
he created. | 0:58 | |
What comes out of this, he created. | 0:59 | |
We didn't create anything. | 1:02 | |
You can't kick people around and treat 'em like dogs | 1:04 | |
and expect they're going to stay here amongst these people | 1:06 | |
and live like dogs all their lives, | 1:09 | |
and expect to say, "Thank you, White Man," no. | 1:12 | |
We're not gonna stay here and say "Thank you, White Man." | 1:15 | |
We're saying, "White Man, give us what is ours!" | 1:18 | |
He brought us here, didn't he? | 1:24 | |
Now, we're asking him, when he brought us here, | 1:27 | |
he said he would give us what we needed. | 1:30 | |
He ain't given us a goddamned thing! | 1:32 | |
He's put us here like a bunch of dogs. | 1:35 | |
Just, go for yourself, go for yourself! | 1:39 | |
How can you go for yourself when there's nothin' here? | 1:41 | |
- | Your name's Bernie, or what? | 1:44 |
- | No, my name's not Bernie. | |
B.J., that's all. | 1:47 | |
Larry, you want to say something? | 1:49 | |
Larry | No, I don't wanna say nothin', but just, | 1:51 |
come on baby, because we're ready for you, Jay. | 1:53 | |
All I wanna say, Don. | 1:55 | |
- | Thanks a lot. | |
Reporter | And supposedly, | 2:01 |
these blacks that we see here -- | 2:02 | |
(mic rustling) | 2:05 | |
Don | Alright, there was a faculty meeting this afternoon | 2:07 |
starting at four o'clock in Baldwin Auditorium. | 2:09 | |
The ultimatum was read to the assembled faculty members. | 2:15 | |
A motion was made | 2:18 | |
that the ultimatum not take effect until the faculty | 2:20 | |
had time to deliberate upon it, at which point | 2:23 | |
Dr. Douglas Knight, the president of the university, | 2:27 | |
arrived at the faculty meeting, | 2:29 | |
and said that the, | 2:31 | |
the motion was out of order, since a process had already | 2:34 | |
been set in motion, and it could not be retired. | 2:38 | |
At this point, one of the faculty members | 2:41 | |
got up and moved that the meeting be adjourned, | 2:46 | |
since there's nothing they could do. | 2:49 | |
This motion was defeated, at which point, | 2:51 | |
approximately 50 members of the faculty who had voted | 2:54 | |
to adjourn the meeting walked out. | 2:57 | |
Further news, I am ignorant of, I'm afraid. | 3:01 | |
(tape stutters) | 3:05 | |
We're on. | 3:10 | |
Reporter | First of all, about the faculty meeting, | 3:13 |
the concerned faculty meeting. | 3:17 | |
What actually transpired there, | 3:19 | |
and what was their final outcome, their decision? | 3:22 | |
Faculty Member | Concerned faculty decided to do | 3:24 |
essentially two things. | 3:26 | |
First of all, the concerned faculty decided to pass | 3:28 | |
a petition seeking individual support. | 3:31 | |
In addition, it decided to offer certain resolutions | 3:35 | |
or amendments to resolutions | 3:39 | |
in the general faculty meeting. | 3:42 | |
Specifically, it planned to offer a resolution | 3:45 | |
urging the university to refrain from using violence. | 3:49 | |
Urging the university to refrain, specifically, from using | 3:53 | |
force to extract the students from Allen Building. | 3:56 | |
I can't tell you about the faculty member, | 4:00 | |
because I didn't go, Prof. Getter, | 4:03 | |
who's just around here, can, he did. | 4:05 | |
- | That's the large one? | 4:08 |
- | Yes. | |
And evidently what happened is that | 4:10 | |
the university administration told the faculty | 4:13 | |
that even if it passed such a resolution, | 4:16 | |
that the administration would not honor it | 4:18 | |
if it felt that it should do otherwise. | 4:20 | |
Reporter | Are you going to sick this thing | 4:23 |
out to the end? | 4:25 | |
- | Right to the end. | |
Reporter | And you've been in touch with the SLF | 4:27 |
all along, correct? | 4:29 | |
- | Yes, but there's no | |
official connection. | 4:31 | |
It's just an individual commitment on my part. | 4:32 | |
We plan to stay until our | 4:36 | |
brothers and sisters inside | 4:42 | |
either come out, or they try to take 'em out. | 4:43 | |
Reporter | Does that include using force | 4:48 |
on the students' part, or on your part? | 4:50 | |
Faculty Member | That includes ... | 4:51 |
I would say, I don't plan to use force as an individual. | 4:55 | |
I plan to stand, and if I'm thrust aside | 4:59 | |
and I'm beaten up, then I'm thrust aside and I'm beaten up. | 5:03 | |
We don't plan, at this moment, | 5:06 | |
at least, I don't plan at this moment, to use any sort | 5:08 | |
of counter-force against the police. | 5:10 | |
- | Okay, anything else? | 5:14 |
- | I can't think | |
of anything else. | 5:17 | |
- | Thank you very much. | |
Protester | And something in common with the other people | 5:19 |
in the house ... | 5:21 | |
- | Owner, | |
what actually happened at the faculty meeting, | 5:23 | |
when Dr. Knight came in? | 5:27 | |
- | Well, we began by asking, | |
by rising to a point of information, | 5:31 | |
for confirmation on whether there was an ultimatum | 5:34 | |
to the students or not, and what the nature | 5:37 | |
of the ultimatum was. | 5:39 | |
- | Who issued that? | |
Getter | Who issued the ultimatum? | 5:43 |
The provost. | 5:44 | |
It was actually a statement, but it contained an ultimatum. | 5:47 | |
The nature of the consequences were not specified, | 5:51 | |
but they were clearly implied. | 5:55 | |
Namely, that the building would be cleared out. | 5:57 | |
Later in the meeting, a question from the floor asked | 6:00 | |
whether the police were, in fact, being called in, | 6:03 | |
and the question was not answered from the Chair, | 6:07 | |
which again, would incline one to believe that | 6:10 | |
they were involved, at least, up to that point. | 6:13 | |
Now, after we got the statement read, | 6:19 | |
and we had about 10 or 15 minutes to go | 6:25 | |
before the ultimatum was to expire, at that point, | 6:29 | |
we then rose and offered a motion that | 6:33 | |
the faculty of Duke University request and direct | 6:38 | |
the president and provost to suspend the force | 6:42 | |
of that statement, until our deliberations were concluded. | 6:47 | |
This did not strike us as an unreasonable request | 6:55 | |
under the circumstances. | 6:59 | |
There was, at that point, as I say, a great deal | 7:00 | |
of urgency, since time was running out. | 7:03 | |
The Chair responded, at that point, by inviting | 7:06 | |
various officers of the university to explain the background | 7:10 | |
of this disturbance, it seemed to us, obviously, | 7:15 | |
with a view to stall things to a point that | 7:19 | |
the motion would be pointless. | 7:23 | |
There was a motion from the floor | 7:28 | |
calling for an end to debate, | 7:32 | |
that motion was ruled out of order by the president. | 7:34 | |
The president, at one point, | 7:38 | |
after that, said that even if the motion passed, | 7:42 | |
there are occasions where machinery is set in motion | 7:47 | |
and so forth, and the university would, | 7:51 | |
well, I remember his remarks as saying that | 7:53 | |
the university would not necessarily be bound by the motion | 7:58 | |
even if it were passed. | 8:03 | |
Some other people heard it as, the university would not | 8:04 | |
be bound by the motion. | 8:06 | |
I am not at this point clear in my recollection. | 8:08 | |
At any case, when there was almost no time left, | 8:12 | |
there was a motion from the floor that, | 8:16 | |
since the faculty obviously were intended to play no role | 8:21 | |
whatsoever in decision-making on this issue, | 8:25 | |
there was a motion that the meeting be adjourned. | 8:30 | |
That's a motion that does not allow for debate. | 8:33 | |
The motion, the vote was taken, | 8:37 | |
there was a small, very small minority in favor, | 8:40 | |
so it was overwhelmingly defeated, at that point, | 8:46 | |
I understand some 35 faculty members walked out | 8:50 | |
amid the jeering, hisses, and derisory applause | 8:53 | |
of a large number of our colleagues. | 9:00 | |
Reporter | I see, there is a report that the police | 9:04 |
have already organized and formed. | 9:07 | |
So you'd say that police power, used by Dr. Knight | 9:11 | |
in this instance, authorized by Dr. Knight, | 9:16 | |
is absolute, right now? | 9:19 | |
Getter | I have no information on whether police | 9:23 |
are to be employed, one would make that inference. | 9:26 | |
It seemed, at least, clear that it is with the concurrence | 9:30 | |
of Dr. Knight, since he is obviously | 9:32 | |
fully aware of the facts. | 9:35 | |
Reporter | Where is Dr. Knight right now? | 9:38 |
Getter | In a meeting with the faculty. | 9:40 |
The rest of the faculty. | 9:42 | |
- | I see, the part that didn't | |
walk out? | 9:45 | |
- | The part that didn't | |
walk out, yes. | 9:47 | |
- | I see. | 9:48 |
- | I suppose, it's been | |
about 20 minutes since I was there. | 9:52 | |
- | You're gonna stick this out to the very end, right? | 9:54 |
- | Yes I am. | 9:56 |
- | Are you in contact | |
with the SLF? | 9:58 | |
Or are you -- | 10:00 | |
- | I have no affiliation | |
with them, I have no knowledge of their plans, I have never | 10:03 | |
been consulted with them on their plans, nor do I have a | 10:06 | |
particular reason to become involved in that way. | 10:10 | |
- | It's personal commitment? | 10:14 |
- | It's personal commitment, | |
that's right. | 10:16 | |
- | Thank you very much. | 10:17 |
- | I just don't like to see | |
students forcefully manhandled unnecessarily. | 10:20 | |
I think this could be settled by negotiation, | 10:24 | |
ought to be settled by negotiation, | 10:27 | |
and that it is a negotiable matter. | 10:29 | |
That the introduction of police is unnecessary, | 10:31 | |
there is no reason why, at this particular moment in time, | 10:35 | |
those students absolutely must be out of that building. | 10:39 | |
Reporter | Thank you very much. | 10:44 |
First of all, what's your name? | 10:56 | |
- | Brenda Armstrong. | 10:58 |
- | Why did they send you out? | 10:59 |
- | To protect the girls. | |
Reporter | They sent all the girls out? | 11:03 |
- | Just about. | 11:05 |
- | What do you mean, | |
"just about", how many are still there? | 11:06 | |
- | Three left. | 11:08 |
- | Why are they staying | |
in there? | 11:09 | |
- | They wouldn't leave. | 11:11 |
- | One of them has | |
her boyfriend in there, she's not leaving. | 11:13 | |
And the other two just don't believe in leaving. | 11:17 | |
The rest of us are kind of frightened, kind of scared, | 11:20 | |
kind of upset, we've been going through all kinds | 11:21 | |
of mental pressure all day long. | 11:23 | |
Reporter | How many people are in there now, | 11:26 |
including the boys? | 11:28 | |
- | About 40. | 11:30 |
- | I don't know, | |
I couldn't say, because more people are coming in | 11:32 | |
from the outside, here. | 11:34 | |
- | Do they have any arms | |
or anything like that? | 11:37 | |
- | They're armed the best they | |
can, they improvise, but -- | 11:39 | |
- | They have no firearms? | |
Both Women | (vehemently) No! | 11:42 |
- | No firearms, nothing. | 11:44 |
- | No kerosene or gasoline. | |
Reporter | Were you with them when | 11:48 |
they walked in this morning? | 11:49 | |
- | Yes. | |
Reporter | And what was, how did they take over | 11:51 |
the building, exactly? | 11:53 | |
(everyone speaking simultaneously) | 11:55 | |
Protester | We came in the front door, | 12:00 |
there wasn't any physical violence. | 12:03 | |
All, that secretary and the man, they lied. | 12:05 | |
We escorted them out, they walked on their own two feet. | 12:07 | |
They roped the doors off, they chained the boards up, | 12:11 | |
I mean, put chains on the door, | 12:14 | |
they boarded the doors up with, you know, boards and nails. | 12:15 | |
We moved furniture and things like this, | 12:19 | |
this took us one minute and 59 seconds, | 12:22 | |
they barricaded everything. | 12:24 | |
- | The safe was open then? | 12:27 |
- | No, the safe in the | |
bursar's office was not open. | 12:31 | |
- | I see, where the safe was -- | |
Brenda | The one in Central Records is open. | 12:35 |
Reporter | The one in Central Records, just a sec. | 12:37 |
How many, I mean, | 12:39 | |
they know what's going on now. | 12:42 | |
What are their plans, what are they doing | 12:43 | |
in there right now? | 12:44 | |
Brenda | I don't, we don't wanna make any comments | 12:46 |
about that. | 12:47 | |
- | We're not supposed | |
to make a comment about that. | 12:49 | |
- | They've been knowing | |
what's going on for two and a half years. | 12:51 | |
- | For two and a half years. | 12:54 |
- | And today it's gonna stop, | |
one way or the other. | 12:56 | |
Reporter | I was going to ask them, what the point is, | 12:58 |
where are they going. | 13:01 | |
Okay, where are you going? | 13:02 | |
Are you gonna stick around now? | 13:03 | |
- | [All Women Speaking] Of course we're gonna stick around! | 13:05 |
I wanna see those men come out of there! | 13:06 | |
We're gonna -- | 13:08 | |
- | It's not like they're | |
just somebody, they're our brothers. | 13:10 | |
Reporter | Are you going to join | 13:12 |
the group around back? | 13:13 | |
- | Whatever happens to | |
our brothers happens to us. | 13:17 | |
- | Whenever the cops come out | |
we're gonna follow them. | 13:19 | |
- | We're gonna be there | |
when they get there. | 13:21 | |
- | I see. | |
You did have, | 13:26 | |
they can hold up there, say, if the cops don't come. | 13:27 | |
They've been issued an ultimatum, right? | 13:29 | |
- | Yes. | 13:31 |
- | Who issued that? | |
Brenda | Mr. Hobbs, the provost of the university. | 13:34 |
- | And it came from who? | 13:37 |
- | It came from | |
the administration and the faculty and a few students, | 13:39 | |
according to him. | 13:42 | |
- | When did they issue that? | |
Brenda | About an hour ago, | 13:45 |
about an hour ago right now. | 13:45 | |
- | And how did you finally | |
get out of the room? | 13:48 | |
They didn't let you through that door, I'm sure. | 13:50 | |
- | No, we came through -- | 13:53 |
- | We were lowered out | |
a window. | 13:55 | |
- | Have you gotten | |
any official statement from Dr. Knight today? | 13:57 | |
- | No we haven't. | 13:59 |
- | He probably isn't | |
even on campus. | 14:01 | |
- | Yeah. | |
Reporter | I see, do you know who is in charge | 14:04 |
of making the decisions? | 14:06 | |
- | The administration, | |
the provost. | 14:08 | |
- | The provost. | |
That's about it, thank you very much. | 14:11 | |
Spokesperson | Who are left behind. | 14:15 |
And that's not the solution to the race problem. | 14:17 | |
That's not the solution. | 14:20 | |
Now what's needed is that there be lots and lots | 14:22 | |
of black people who go through | 14:24 | |
lots of good -- | 14:26 | |
- | People that are in there, | |
why are you here this afternoon? | 14:28 | |
- | [NCC Spokesperson] Our purpose is, this afternoon, | 14:31 |
is to support all black students | 14:32 | |
and all of their effort to get the support themselves. | 14:35 | |
So many times within the past years, | 14:39 | |
we've had incidents happen all over the state. | 14:41 | |
And we need more students to help, | 14:44 | |
and this is just one effort to help. | 14:47 | |
Any other questions? | 14:51 | |
- | You're completely | |
aware of the demands of the students inside, | 14:53 | |
and the group supports it completely, or half, | 14:58 | |
or what? | 15:01 | |
- | No, there is no | |
half-blackness, there is no half-anything. | 15:03 | |
We support all the demands that they have submitted | 15:06 | |
before the administration. | 15:08 | |
There is no half-and-half. | 15:11 | |
- | The SLF drove you over here? | 15:14 |
- | Pardon me? | |
Reporter | The SLF drove you over here, | 15:16 |
or did you come by yourself? | 15:19 | |
And about how many are there? | 15:21 | |
- | [NCC Spokesperson] We came over here by ourselves, | 15:23 |
and I'm not counting. | 15:23 | |
- | Do you plan on physically | |
opposing the police, should they come? | 15:30 | |
- | No comment. | 15:34 |
- | Did you ... | |
Now I forgot what I was gonna say. (laughs) | 15:38 | |
- | [NCC Spokesperson] Well, I'll play the game too, right? | 15:40 |
- | You'll play the game too. | 15:42 |
- | Oh yes. | |
Reporter | When did you learn about the situation here? | 15:45 |
- | [NCC Spokesperson] We learned about the situation today, | 15:49 |
after we heard on the radio, like everyone else | 15:50 | |
heard on the radio, that the students would be, | 15:52 | |
the students are, they've closed this little | 15:55 | |
administration building down, whatever it was. | 15:58 | |
It was Allen. | 16:03 | |
And we heard it about it today, | 16:05 | |
so after we heard about it, we planned to come over here | 16:06 | |
to support, you know, their efforts. | 16:08 | |
- | Do you have a group at NCC | 16:10 |
that is in contact with the Afro-American Society | 16:12 | |
here at Duke? | 16:16 | |
- | Yes, we have a group, | |
but I'm not at liberty to disclose it at this time. | 16:18 | |
Reporter | I see, have you talked, person to person, | 16:23 |
with the group inside? | 16:27 | |
- | Yes, we have. | |
- | And was that just lately? | 16:31 |
- | Yes it was, | |
it was this morning. | 16:34 | |
A few of our representatives talked to some of the students | 16:36 | |
inside, and we had personal | 16:39 | |
negotiations at that time. | 16:45 | |
There wasn't anything that we felt | 16:46 | |
everyone here should be involved in, | 16:49 | |
but the black students. | 16:51 | |
Reporter | Have you talked to the people inside | 16:54 |
since the university has issued its ultimatum, and if so, | 16:56 | |
what is their feeling right now? | 16:59 | |
- | [NCC Spokesperson] Yes, we have talked to | 17:01 |
some of the people inside. | 17:03 | |
In particular, Howard Fuller and a few of the other people. | 17:04 | |
But ... | 17:07 | |
We have not, you know, we're not at liberty right now | 17:10 | |
to disclose anything. | 17:13 | |
Reporter | You realize that they just released the girls | 17:17 |
that they had inside, don't you? | 17:19 | |
- | [NCC Spokesperson] We are not, no comment, | 17:22 |
no more comments. | 17:23 | |
- | Thank you very much. | |
Speaker | One kind of progress or another has been made. | 17:26 |
- | Right now we'd like to know, about how many people | 17:32 |
do you have in there? | 17:35 | |
- | 75,000. | |
Reporter | That's a good round number, | 17:39 |
something like that? | 17:40 | |
You just sent the girls out. | 17:42 | |
You have two other girls in there? | 17:44 | |
Protester | We don't have | 17:46 |
any girls in here. | 17:48 | |
- | Approximately 10,000 girls. | |
Reporter | Has your strategy changed any | 17:51 |
since when I talked to you this afternoon? | 17:53 | |
Protester | We have some people that are talking, | 17:55 |
I don't know what it's gonna do, | 17:58 | |
but we may end up the same way. | 18:00 | |
Reporter | When you were issued the ultimatum, | 18:01 |
who exactly issued it, and was it in written form? | 18:03 | |
- | Yes, it was. | 18:06 |
- | It's from the provost | |
in written form, he confronted us earlier | 18:08 | |
with the same shit. | 18:10 | |
- | Has the SLF | |
been in touch with you? | 18:14 | |
- | Yes. | |
- | I mean, just lately? | 18:17 |
- | No. | |
Reporter | Do you know what's happening | 18:20 |
on the outside, support from NCC and whatever? | 18:22 | |
- | Yes, partially. | 18:27 |
- | Partially, not all of it. | |
Reporter | Have you, before this happened, | 18:29 |
did you have ties with a group at NCC? | 18:31 | |
I mean, the Afro-American Society? | 18:37 | |
Protester | No, they were made, | 18:39 |
but we had no direct contacts and this was not | 18:41 | |
a part of anybody else's scheme | 18:45 | |
or anything like that, no. | 18:47 | |
- | When was the ultimatum | |
supposed to end? | 18:50 | |
- | What? | 18:53 |
- | When was the ultimatum | |
supposed to end? | 18:56 | |
- | About three. | |
Reporter | So you don't have any kerosene | 19:01 |
or guns or anything like that? | 19:03 | |
- | No, no, that's all lies. | 19:05 |
- | All we have are | |
the records that they left. | 19:08 | |
Reporter | I see, is the safe open, with the records? | 19:10 |
Protester | The main safe in the | 19:15 |
bursar's office is closed, the other safe | 19:17 | |
is open, was left open. | 19:20 | |
Reporter | I see, what exactly happened? | 19:23 |
I mean, tell it the way, | 19:25 | |
when you came in, what actually happened? | 19:26 | |
There's been reports of violence | 19:29 | |
and that you lifted a person out of the place -- | 19:31 | |
Protester | No, they walked out on their own. | 19:33 |
They were even given time to get their own coats. | 19:36 | |
How could we throw them out then? | 19:38 | |
Reporter | How many people were in there | 19:40 |
when you came in this morning? | 19:42 | |
- | 10 or 20. | |
The place wasn't even really open then. | 19:46 | |
There weren't that many people in. | 19:51 | |
Reporter | Do you think your demands will be met? | 19:53 |
Or what's your position right now? | 19:55 | |
Protester | Well, if the man's gonna send 85 or 70 cops | 19:58 |
on a bunch of flimsy things he thinks | 20:02 | |
are happening inside, I don't think, at the moment, | 20:06 | |
we can say we're gonna get 'em. | 20:09 | |
But I can say this much, we're gonna fight | 20:11 | |
all the way to the end to get 'em, | 20:13 | |
and we're gonna leave this goddamned rathole. | 20:15 | |
Reporter | Have you had any, | 20:18 |
are there any possible weapons | 20:21 | |
that you have in there, or have you started | 20:23 | |
planning your tactics? | 20:24 | |
- | They have no weapons, | |
no guns, as we've heard people say. | 20:27 | |
We haven't got any guns, no axes, no knives. | 20:30 | |
Reporter | What do you plan to fight with, | 20:34 |
or how? | 20:37 | |
- | Whatever we get hands on. | |
- | What's ... | 20:40 |
- | There's plenty in | |
the records office that you can use to beat people with, | 20:43 | |
when you're being struck. | 20:46 | |
Reporter | What, how many doors are there | 20:49 |
to the records office? | 20:49 | |
- | Central Records? | |
- | Central Office, two. | 20:52 |
- | Yeah, where you are now. | |
- | Well, as we're situated in a building, | 20:56 |
there are only two exits. | 20:58 | |
Three actually, one in the basement, two on the first floor. | 20:59 | |
Reporter | Since Dr. Knight isn't here right now, and ... | 21:02 |
Oh, he has come back to town. | 21:05 | |
Well, if they decide not to use police force, | 21:08 | |
you said, this morning, you could last | 21:12 | |
for about a week, right? | 21:15 | |
- | Longer than that, maybe, | |
I don't know. | 21:18 | |
- | Do me a favor, tell the pigs | |
that if they are gonna attack | 21:20 | |
we'd appreciate if they'd be on time. | 21:22 | |
Because they're already about 15 or 20 minutes overdue. | 21:23 | |
Reporter | Well, it's disputed whether that | 21:28 |
was just a rumor or not, but -- | 21:30 | |
Mark | Were chanting something, which I couldn't exactly | 21:36 |
understand, they sounded, you know, some sort of a chant. | 21:39 | |
They were coming out with jackets and stuff over | 21:42 | |
their heads, probably to prevent pictures | 21:45 | |
being taken of themselves. | 21:48 | |
- | Uh huh, right. | |
Mark | Then, I came down to phone you, and I went back, | 21:51 |
and in that interim there were approximately | 21:53 | |
five or six patrol cars that came on the scene. | 21:56 | |
There are policemen all over the place. | 22:00 | |
They did not enter the building, however, | 22:02 | |
they demonstrators came out first. | 22:04 | |
Ken | Alright, are you sure that all of them left? | 22:06 |
- | I am pretty sure -- | 22:09 |
- | Or just some of them | |
decided to leave? | 22:11 | |
- | I don't know. | |
Ken | We've gotta find that out before we can do anything. | 22:13 |
Mark | I can't find any of our units, so I'm going to try | 22:15 |
and go over there and go inside and see what happens. | 22:17 | |
- | Hey Mark? | 22:19 |
- | Yeah? | |
Jeff | If you find anybody who works over here, | 22:21 |
Tom or Warren, tell them to conglomerate | 22:22 | |
and find the information and then get back over here, | 22:24 | |
don't let anybody wander around. | 22:26 | |
Mark | Yeah, 'cause make sure somebody stays there. | 22:28 |
Ken | Yeah, make sure somebody | 22:30 |
stays, but now this -- | 22:31 | |
- | I was just over there now, | |
I was trying to get you, but somebody was on the phone. | 22:33 | |
Ken | Yeah, we were talking with CBS people. | 22:35 |
Listen, what you have to do is find out if everybody left, | 22:37 | |
and found that out as quick as you can | 22:38 | |
so we can get it out. | 22:41 | |
- | Right now, the situation now | |
is just sort of, everybody's milling around out front | 22:43 | |
in disbelief -- | 22:45 | |
- | I understand. | |
Mark | You know, there's a bunch of cops all over | 22:47 |
the place including State Police. | 22:49 | |
Ken | Please find out, and have someone call us back | 22:51 |
immediately when you find out if everybody's left. | 22:53 | |
Mark | Yeah, right, Davis and I were gonna try to call you | 22:54 |
every 10 minutes, but I haven't been able to find Davis | 22:56 | |
since I told him -- | 22:58 | |
- | Okay, well we'll wait for | |
your call, to see what happens. | 22:59 | |
As soon as possible. | 23:00 | |
- | Right, but that's | |
the situation now. | 23:02 | |
- | Well call back | |
in the next few minutes, alright? | 23:03 | |
- | Right, so long. | 23:05 |
- | Bye bye. | |
(phone hangs up) | 23:06 | |
Don | Yeah, they left marching down | 23:09 |
out of the, | 23:11 | |
away from the chapel, | 23:14 | |
'til one girl got mildly struck by a police car. | 23:15 | |
She's alright. | 23:19 | |
They turned around and started beating on the police cars | 23:20 | |
and kicking them in with whatever they had. | 23:22 | |
And then turned around and went back | 23:25 | |
towards Allen Building. | 23:28 | |
And then the police, now in force with helmets, | 23:30 | |
tear gas, | 23:34 | |
and what some people refer to as cattle prods, | 23:35 | |
came around the back of Allen Building | 23:39 | |
and are now standing at the doorway to Allen Building, | 23:41 | |
sort of completely surrounding it. | 23:46 | |
Ken | Now those people went back in? | 23:48 |
Don | No, they didn't go back in. | 23:50 |
But the police are just standing there and showing force, | 23:52 | |
and the students are -- | 23:53 | |
- | So the kids can't get | |
back in, right? | 23:55 | |
- | No, they can't. | |
All the black students are out. | 23:57 | |
Ken | Are you sure all of them are out? | 23:59 |
Don | Yes, I talked to a black student | 24:01 |
and I got as much as I could on tape. | 24:03 | |
Ken | But now, okay, let me get this straight. | 24:06 |
They all came out and started marching towards the chapel? | 24:08 | |
Don | No, marching away from the chapel, down that road. | 24:10 |
Ken | Okay. | 24:12 |
And then they ran into the police, or something? | 24:13 | |
Don | About three or four, I can't remember, | 24:16 |
three, I think it was about three police cars | 24:18 | |
were coming in the other direction, | 24:20 | |
hearing that the black students | 24:22 | |
had gotten out of Allen Building. | 24:24 | |
Now, the university let them out, | 24:27 | |
and they were marching down, away from the chapel, | 24:29 | |
and they were saying, oh, what were they saying. | 24:33 | |
They were saying, "It's not over -- | 24:35 | |
(someone reminds him in background) | 24:37 | |
"Hell no, it's not over." | 24:39 | |
They got about halfway between the chapel and the gates | 24:41 | |
when three police cars came down, | 24:45 | |
mildly struck a girl, a black girl. | 24:47 | |
- | Intentionally or what? | 24:51 |
- | I don't think it was | |
intentionally, it looked like they tried to stop. | 24:54 | |
They just hit her mildly. | 24:56 | |
And -- | 24:58 | |
- | How do you mildly | |
hit somebody in a car? | 25:00 | |
- | Well, you know, | |
he probably slammed on the brakes, and -- | 25:02 | |
- | Okay. | 25:04 |
- | She wasn't hurt, anyway, | |
and we took her over to the side of the road. | 25:06 | |
- | Okay. | 25:07 |
- | And the rest of the blacks, | |
they were surrounded by blacks from NCC, | 25:09 | |
and as they were marching down, | 25:12 | |
all yelling, "Hell no, it's not over," | 25:14 | |
and then they hit the car with whatever they had | 25:16 | |
in their hands -- | 25:18 | |
- | One car? | |
Just one car? | 25:20 | |
- | Three of 'em. | |
- | Okay. | 25:22 |
- | And then they turned around | |
and they followed the police cars back toward | 25:25 | |
Allen Building. | 25:28 | |
At the same time, the highway patrol and the dorm police | 25:29 | |
moved in from in the back of Allen Building -- | 25:34 | |
Ken | And closed off Allen Building, right? | 25:38 |
Don | Closed off Allen Building completely. | 25:39 |
They're now standing out there, in front of the door, | 25:41 | |
the students are all around them, | 25:46 | |
some had, at first, were throwing things -- | 25:47 | |
- | The black students? | 25:49 |
- | Yeah, no. | |
White and black. | 25:52 | |
And they were yelling, "Sieg heil", and -- | 25:54 | |
- | So -- | 25:58 |
- | Well, the cops have | |
gas masks -- | 26:00 | |
- | What are the blacks | |
doing right now? | 26:02 | |
Don | They just don't know what to think, there's -- | 26:04 |
Ken | They're just standing there, right? | 26:06 |
Don | They're just standing there right now. | 26:08 |
Ken | Do you know why they came out in the first place? | 26:09 |
Don | I tried to talk to everybody, | 26:11 |
and they just said, the only -- | 26:14 | |
the best comment I could get on it, other than no comments, | 26:16 | |
was that they came out because they had been suspended | 26:19 | |
from the university, and they decided to leave. | 26:22 | |
They said they were going to regroup, | 26:26 | |
and one guy said he was gonna come back, | 26:29 | |
and then he was gonna get the hell out of Duke. | 26:32 | |
Ken | Alright, so, they came out voluntarily, | 26:35 |
no tear gas was used, right? | 26:38 | |
- | No, they -- | |
Ken | Now where are you right now, Don? | 26:40 |
- | They said they wanted out. | 26:42 |
- | Where are you right now? | |
- | I'm in FF Lounge. | 26:43 |
- | Can you see? | |
- | Pardon? | 26:45 |
- | Can you see | |
what's happening? | 26:47 | |
Don | Not right now, I'm going back over there. | 26:48 |
Ken | So you don't, so now we're just gonna wait and see, | 26:50 |
the blacks are standing around, right? | 26:52 | |
Don | The blacks and the whites, | 26:54 |
just a mass of students out there. | 26:55 | |
Ken | Okay, so we're just gonna wait | 26:57 |
and see what happens, right? | 26:58 | |
- | Right. | |
Ken | Alright, well I'll phone that in to ABC, | 27:00 |
and then we'll expect something as soon as anything happens | 27:03 | |
from you, okay? | 27:04 | |
- | Okay, they didn't, | |
no force -- | 27:06 | |
- | Right. | |
(tape squeals) | 27:10 | |
Don | Oh boy, cops were (gasping for breath) | 27:13 |
standing outside of Allen Building, | 27:17 | |
started throwing tear gas grenades into the students. | 27:19 | |
- | All the students? | 27:21 |
- | Yeah. | |
All the ones that were out on the quad. | 27:24 | |
- | I see. | 27:25 |
- | And students are | |
running away, they're throwing anything they can get | 27:28 | |
their hands on. | 27:29 | |
Must have thrown about six or seven tear gas grenades. | 27:31 | |
- | Okay. | 27:34 |
- | And it's just covering | |
the, this is the quad, | 27:36 | |
the part where the buses pull up. | 27:38 | |
Ken | Right, now was there any provocation that you saw | 27:41 |
that provoked them to throw the tear gas? | 27:43 | |
There must have been something, anything happen? | 27:45 | |
Don | Not that I, | 27:48 |
ugh, got some of that stuff in my eyes. | 27:50 | |
Not that (gasping) -- | 27:51 | |
Ken | Correspondent Don Baumgardner dies on the scene! | 27:53 |
No, go ahead. | 27:55 | |
- | C'mon, I'm rushing in there, | |
I didn't know whether it was smoke or tear gas. | 27:57 | |
- | Yeah, yeah. | 27:59 |
- | Not that I could see. | |
They're all just jeering and yelling. | 28:01 | |
There was a student standing up, | 28:02 | |
at the doorway, a student standing up with his arm out | 28:05 | |
stretched like a Christ figure. | 28:07 | |
Ken | Okay, now let me ask you this. | 28:09 |
Does it seem to you that the majority of | 28:10 | |
the white students there are now | 28:12 | |
sympathizing with the blacks? | 28:14 | |
Don | Oh, you better believe it. | 28:15 |
Well, I'm not sure if they're sympathizing with the blacks, | 28:17 | |
but they're sure after the police. | 28:19 | |
Ken | In other words, they're all pissed off at the police | 28:21 |
as far as you could tell. | 28:23 | |
- | Yes. | |
Ken | Okay, now, could you look out the window | 28:25 |
and see if anything else has happened? | 28:26 | |
- | Just a second. | 28:28 |
- | 'Cause there's -- | |
(faint shouting in background) | 28:31 | |
That's a kid. | 28:34 | |
Yeah, it's ridiculous. | 28:35 | |
Don | Okay, all I could get is that the cops, | 28:41 |
that the students started sort of pushing in on the cops. | 28:43 | |
- | Uh huh? | 28:46 |
- | And that started, | |
the cops just started throwing tear gas. | 28:47 | |
Ken | Now, when you say students, | 28:49 |
do you mean all the students, black and white? | 28:50 | |
Don | Black and white. | 28:52 |
- | Okay, now, so -- | 28:53 |
- | The students were | |
standing out there, even the white ones, | 28:55 | |
they were throwing things and clubbing. | 28:56 | |
Ken | What do you think is gonna happen now? | 28:58 |
- | I have no idea! | 28:59 |
- | Just looking at the scene, | |
I mean, is it stopped or? | 29:01 | |
Don | No, the students have pushed away from where | 29:03 |
the buses come in, and the cops, just as I last saw them, | 29:05 | |
they were sort of retreating backwards a little bit. | 29:07 | |
But the tear gas grenades have landed all the way up | 29:10 | |
right next to the building I'm in. | 29:12 | |
I'm across, you know, in Canterbury? | 29:15 | |
- | Yes. | 29:17 |
- | And they've landed | |
all the way up next to the door, even there. | 29:19 | |
Ken | Alright, now look. | 29:20 |
Has there been any clubbing? | 29:22 | |
- | No. | 29:23 |
- | Okay, now look. | |
Do you think it's safe for me to go in | 29:24 | |
and call these stories to CBS and ABC? | 29:26 | |
Or do you expect anything to happen right now? | 29:28 | |
Don | I expect something to happen. | 29:30 |
- | Well then, we can keep this phone right on the line | 29:32 |
like this and just let you sit -- | 29:34 | |
Don | Okay, I don't think anybody'll be | 29:36 |
using this phone, okay? | 29:39 | |
- | I'll tell you what, listen, | |
here's a good thing to do. | 29:40 | |
I'll send somebody downstairs and have them call you | 29:42 | |
on our other line. | 29:43 | |
Will that line call a Duke number though? | 29:45 | |
- | Yeah. | 29:47 |
- | Okay -- | |
- | Wait a second! | 29:48 |
- | [Student In Background] They're running around the campus | 29:49 |
tear-gassing everything in sight. | 29:51 | |
They're running around outside the main quad | 29:52 | |
in the bus circle, just throwing teargas grenades | 29:54 | |
right and left. | 29:56 | |
- | I know. | |
- | You got that, Ken? | 29:57 |
- | Yeah, I got that, | |
but I don't want any wild-ass things, I wanna know just | 29:59 | |
what's happening, what do you mean they're running around? | 30:01 | |
Don | I'll tell you what, | 30:03 |
keep the line ... | 30:04 | |
(speaking in background) | ||
Tape recorder's busted. | 30:06 | |
- | That's great, that's great. | |
Don | We'll run around out there and see -- | 30:09 |
Ken | Listen, look, we might as well just go ahead | 30:12 |
and keep this line open, alright? | 30:14 | |
So I'm just gonna sit here, and you keep Jeff by the phone | 30:16 | |
and tell him not to let anyone mess with this line. | 30:17 | |
- | Okay, I'll go back -- | 30:19 |
- | You want me, Ken, | |
you want me to call on the other one | 30:21 | |
and keep this one for anyone else | 30:23 | |
that wants to call in? | 30:24 | |
- | Uh, if you can do that, | |
yes. | 30:26 | |
- | Okay. | |
What number are you over there, Jeff? | 30:27 | |
- | Uh, I'm at -- | 30:29 |
- | I'll tell you what -- | |
(tape stopped, sound winds down) | 30:31 |
Item Info
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