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- | Hello. | 0:02 |
Instructional Dynamics Incorporated welcomes you | 0:03 | |
to this weekly series of commentaries | 0:05 | |
on the current economic scene. | 0:07 | |
Reporting to you will be | 0:09 | |
one of the nation's leading economists, | 0:10 | |
Professor Paul Samuelson, | 0:12 | |
of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. | 0:13 | |
What you are about to hear was recorded just a few days ago | 0:16 | |
by Dr. Samuelson for subscribers | 0:19 | |
to this exclusive IDI informational service. | 0:21 | |
The views expressed are Dr. Samuelson's, of course, | 0:25 | |
and we invite you to talk back. | 0:28 | |
If you have a question or a criticism | 0:30 | |
or a subject you would like to hear discussed, | 0:32 | |
write to Dr. Samuelson, care of | 0:34 | |
the Instructional Dynamics Incorporated, | 0:36 | |
166 East Superior Street, Chicago, 60611. | 0:39 | |
If, for some reason, the playback unit | 0:45 | |
given as part of this service | 0:47 | |
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please bring it to the nearest Norelco service outlet. | 0:50 | |
The cassettes and tapes in this series | 0:53 | |
may be played by subscribers as often as they like, | 0:55 | |
but this material may not be reproduced or duplicated | 0:58 | |
without the written consent of IDI. | 1:01 | |
Now, Dr. Samuelson, I would like to welcome you | 1:04 | |
to this information service on behalf of IDI | 1:06 | |
and our subscribers. | 1:08 | |
First of all, Dr. Samuelson, | 1:11 | |
perhaps you could tell us how the American economy | 1:14 | |
is standing right now. | 1:16 | |
- | As an economist, when I make speeches around the country, | 1:19 |
it's always a good opening to say | 1:23 | |
this year is a particularly difficult year | 1:26 | |
to forecast the future. | 1:29 | |
Well, this year, I can say with some emphasis, | 1:31 | |
this is a difficult year to forecast a future | 1:34 | |
because, generally speaking, | 1:37 | |
there is one standard fashionable economic forecast, | 1:40 | |
and the people are pretty much agreed on it. | 1:44 | |
This year, however, there are | 1:46 | |
at least two standard forecasts, | 1:48 | |
and I'd like to comment on them | 1:51 | |
and then give you my evaluation of the situation. | 1:55 | |
First, the economy, American economy, has been booming. | 2:00 | |
From the middle of 1967 to the middle of 1968, | 2:06 | |
we were overheating. | 2:11 | |
Prices were rising, unemployment had dropped to 3 1/2%, | 2:13 | |
and I know of no jury of economists | 2:18 | |
which would not have agreed that the overheating economy | 2:23 | |
needed cooling off. | 2:28 | |
Most of us, not all of us, but most of us | 2:29 | |
were advocating fiscal restraint. | 2:32 | |
This meant a tax surcharge. | 2:35 | |
This meant expenditure control by the federal government. | 2:37 | |
But this was a long time coming, | 2:41 | |
and it wasn't until June that Congressman Mills | 2:43 | |
of the Ways and Means Committee, | 2:47 | |
the congressional Ways and Means Committee, | 2:50 | |
indicated that there would be action. | 2:52 | |
One thing about economists is that, | 2:56 | |
after they get their hearts desire, | 2:59 | |
they wonder whether they really wanted it. | 3:01 | |
And immediately that the tax surcharge was passed, | 3:04 | |
there began to be a school of thought | 3:08 | |
which said this fiscal restraint may represent overkill. | 3:09 | |
The economy in the last part of 1968 | 3:14 | |
is going to slow down its rate of growth, | 3:18 | |
and a few of the more pessimistic members of this school | 3:22 | |
even went so far as to say that there would be a recession | 3:26 | |
in early 1969. | 3:28 | |
Now, what does this mean in concrete terms? | 3:31 | |
It means that the gross national product, | 3:35 | |
which had been growing at a more than a 10% rate | 3:38 | |
in the first half of the year, 20 billion per quarter, | 3:42 | |
was going to slow down, | 3:46 | |
according to these fashionable forecasts | 3:47 | |
to a rate of growth of only $10 billion | 3:49 | |
in the third quarter, another 10 billion | 3:53 | |
in the fourth quarter, and even less | 3:55 | |
in the first quarter of next year. | 3:58 | |
That meant, of course, that by the first quarter | 4:00 | |
of next year, there would be almost no real growth | 4:02 | |
in the economy. | 4:05 | |
Since our population is growing, | 4:06 | |
new people are coming into the labor market all the time, | 4:08 | |
this fashionable forecast meant that the unemployment rate | 4:11 | |
was going to rise from 3 1/2%, to 4%. to 4 1/4%, to 4 1/2%, | 4:14 | |
and for some of the pessimists, | 4:20 | |
to an even higher level than that. | 4:22 | |
What about profits? | 4:25 | |
Well, we know that the profits in our economy | 4:26 | |
depend in a very important way upon growth. | 4:30 | |
It's like an airplane. | 4:33 | |
If an airplane stands still, it falls down. | 4:34 | |
Our corporate enterprise, if the gross national product | 4:37 | |
ever stands still, finds its profit eroding away. | 4:40 | |
This is what happened in the 1950s, | 4:44 | |
back when the earnings on the 30 Dow Jones stocks | 4:47 | |
showed absolutely no upward trend, and even a downward trend | 4:52 | |
because of the slow growth rate of the American economy. | 4:56 | |
Finally, this fashionable forecast | 5:01 | |
meant something for interest rates. | 5:04 | |
It meant that interest rates were going to go down. | 5:07 | |
It meant that bond prices were going to go up. | 5:09 | |
Now, that was the single most fashionable forecast | 5:14 | |
in the middle of the year. | 5:16 | |
And actually, I would say, looking at the evidence, | 5:18 | |
that Wall Street and the banking community, on the whole, | 5:22 | |
believes in this fashionable forecast. | 5:25 | |
We can see this because interest rates began to drop, | 5:28 | |
even before Congress acted. | 5:31 | |
From the day that Mr. Mills spoke, | 5:33 | |
short term interest rates dropped | 5:35 | |
and long term interest rates more slowly began to come down. | 5:37 | |
Now, what can we say about this? | 5:44 | |
First, there are at least three arguments | 5:50 | |
that can be given against it. | 5:52 | |
And this will lead me to the second fashionable forecast. | 5:55 | |
I had to go down to, | 6:00 | |
as part of an academic consultants group, | 6:02 | |
to the Federal Reserve early in September, | 6:04 | |
and so I had to formulate the arguments | 6:07 | |
for and against this. | 6:10 | |
Now, these are confidential meetings, | 6:11 | |
and they're off the record, | 6:14 | |
but there's no reason in the world | 6:17 | |
why I can not review with you what went on in my mind | 6:19 | |
as I prepared to take part in this meeting. | 6:23 | |
I reviewed the fashionable forecast | 6:32 | |
that I've just gone over with you, one. | 6:33 | |
Two, I said what arguments could go against it? | 6:36 | |
Now, the first argument that could go against it | 6:39 | |
is the fact that all of these forecasts, | 6:41 | |
these gross national product models, | 6:43 | |
whether they're done by a bank economist in New York | 6:45 | |
or by an oil company economist on the west coast | 6:49 | |
or in a Washington agency or here at MIT, | 6:52 | |
whether it done on a machine | 6:56 | |
or whether they're done by judgment, | 6:57 | |
they have built into them certain assumptions | 6:59 | |
about government expenditures. | 7:01 | |
And a machine can not do any better in its output | 7:03 | |
than the input that you put into it. | 7:06 | |
And if these government expenditure estimates are wrong, | 7:08 | |
then the models are going to be wrong. | 7:11 | |
Well now these government expenditure estimates | 7:13 | |
in this fashionable model were for a considerable measure | 7:15 | |
of constraint upon expenditure, | 7:20 | |
as dictated by Congress at the middle of the year. | 7:22 | |
They were for no perceptible escalation in the Vietnam War. | 7:25 | |
Well, what are we to think? | 7:32 | |
First, I believe that most of those models | 7:35 | |
have been using unrealistic government expenditure figures | 7:39 | |
time after time in the past. | 7:42 | |
They've had a bias in one direction. | 7:44 | |
Namely, they've underestimated the amount | 7:46 | |
of government expenditure. | 7:47 | |
And so, one reason for writing up this pessimistic model | 7:49 | |
and changing it is the government budget figures | 7:52 | |
upon which it's based. | 7:56 | |
I may say that since that time has elapsed, | 7:58 | |
as we move now into early November, | 8:01 | |
there is some evidence that the federal expenditure | 8:05 | |
is higher than in those models. | 8:08 | |
That's reason number one to question the model. | 8:10 | |
Reason number two is purely empirical. | 8:13 | |
You just had to stick your neck out the window | 8:16 | |
in the third quarter and smell the air | 8:19 | |
to realize that this was not a slack quarter. | 8:22 | |
We had retail sales from Sears Roebuck | 8:25 | |
and from the great chains, and they were doing very well | 8:28 | |
indeed in July and in August, and again in September, | 8:30 | |
although not growing in September at the same rate. | 8:35 | |
And so, we have all kinds of current leading indicators | 8:40 | |
that economists use to appraise the present | 8:46 | |
and to appraise the future. | 8:48 | |
So, I got on the telephone and I called one of the experts | 8:50 | |
on the status of the leading indicators. | 8:54 | |
And I said to him, not for attribution, | 8:57 | |
"What do you think about these 10 billion forecasts | 9:00 | |
"for the third quarter and for the fourth quarter?" | 9:05 | |
And he said to me, "Well, Dr. Jeffrey Moore | 9:08 | |
"of the National Bureau of Economic Research | 9:11 | |
"has just been president | 9:13 | |
"of the American Statistical Association, | 9:14 | |
"and he gave a formula that he's worked out | 9:17 | |
"of how to turn the evidence of the leading indicators | 9:19 | |
"into instruments of the gross national product, | 9:23 | |
"and here's what the formula, I think, would say today. | 9:25 | |
"The leading indicators have been strong." | 9:29 | |
By leading indicators, I mean stock market prices, | 9:31 | |
I mean new orders for durable goods, | 9:34 | |
I mean the average hours worked per week, | 9:37 | |
and a dozen or so trusty time series, | 9:42 | |
which in the past, have been early birds, | 9:46 | |
have moved down ahead of business | 9:49 | |
and have moved up ahead of when business | 9:51 | |
was going to move up. | 9:53 | |
And these were pretty strong in July | 9:54 | |
and into the third quarter, | 9:57 | |
and according to the evidence of the leading indicators, | 9:58 | |
there did not seem to be ahead, | 10:02 | |
let's say in the next nine months a true recession. | 10:04 | |
In fact, the figure of 6 1/2% rate of growth of the money, | 10:09 | |
of gross national product, is what was implied | 10:14 | |
by this testimony. | 10:17 | |
Now, 6 1/2% is not 10%, but that still | 10:18 | |
is not down to no real growth in the economy. | 10:21 | |
So that's the second reason for doubting | 10:27 | |
the fashionable forecast that everybody in Wall Street, | 10:29 | |
and generally, I think, in the banking community | 10:33 | |
was buying. | 10:34 | |
But now I come to a third reason, | 10:37 | |
and that is the behavior of the Federal Reserve | 10:40 | |
and the behavior of the Federal Reserve money supply. | 10:43 | |
Now, economists don't agree on everything. | 10:47 | |
That would be no news to you. | 10:49 | |
But particularly, when we come to discuss the role of money, | 10:51 | |
you can get an argument among two economists | 10:58 | |
who meet these days. | 11:01 | |
Back in the 1930s, economists tended, | 11:03 | |
at the time of John Maynard Keynes' general theory, | 11:07 | |
to disregard the interest rate completely. | 11:12 | |
I don't think there are very many dodo birds like that | 11:15 | |
left around. | 11:18 | |
Most of us who call ourselves post Keynesians | 11:19 | |
say that the money supply is an important ingredient; | 11:23 | |
however, there is a school of economists | 11:28 | |
of great scholarly and scientific stature, | 11:31 | |
of which Professor Milton Friedman | 11:35 | |
of the University of Chicago | 11:38 | |
is certainly a leading exponent, | 11:39 | |
which says a little bit more. | 11:42 | |
It says that the most important variable | 11:44 | |
if you want to understand the behavior of the economy ahead | 11:46 | |
is the money supply. | 11:49 | |
Well, meantime back at the Fed, | 11:51 | |
what was happening this summer to the money supply? | 11:53 | |
In a word, it was growing and growing at a very rapid rate, | 11:58 | |
all right through July. | 12:02 | |
And so I called up a leading Chicago banker | 12:05 | |
who I knew I used this particular method, and I said to him, | 12:08 | |
"How do you reconcile these pessimistic 10 billion | 12:11 | |
"per quarter rate of growth forecasts | 12:14 | |
"with this rapid rate of growth in the money supply?" | 12:16 | |
And he said to me, "I can't and I don't, | 12:19 | |
"and that means that those forecasters are wrong. | 12:21 | |
"I believe that the gross national product | 12:25 | |
"will increase by something like 18 or 17 billion | 12:28 | |
"in the third quarter and again in the fourth quarter." | 12:32 | |
I believe that the First National City Bank in New York | 12:36 | |
has, by use of similar reasoning, | 12:40 | |
arrived at estimates like 18 billion for the third quarter | 12:44 | |
and 15 billion for the fourth quarter. | 12:48 | |
So there we have three arguments | 12:52 | |
against the standard, rather pessimistic forecast. | 12:53 | |
And we see forming a minority view, | 12:58 | |
which could easily become a majority view, | 13:01 | |
this is what I'll call the second standard forecast | 13:06 | |
which is based upon the money supply behavior | 13:07 | |
up through July. | 13:12 | |
The economy is going to be stronger | 13:14 | |
and the effects of fiscal restraint | 13:15 | |
are not going to be very notable. | 13:19 | |
Well, let me try to strike the balance. | 13:24 | |
First, we now know how the third quarter worked out. | 13:29 | |
The gross national product increased by 17.9 billion. | 13:33 | |
Anyone who estimated 18 billion | 13:37 | |
is having a pretty good batting eye | 13:40 | |
as far as this particular time is concerned. | 13:44 | |
I would take an eclectic view, | 13:47 | |
not because it isn't easy to take one view or the other, | 13:51 | |
but I think that Mother Nature herself, | 13:56 | |
in the realm of economics, is eclectic. | 13:58 | |
And I've just found over the years | 14:01 | |
that I do better in making predictions | 14:03 | |
when I come to compare those predictions with the past | 14:07 | |
if I give weight to different factors. | 14:10 | |
So I think that fiscal restraint will have an effect indeed. | 14:14 | |
We now know that the second quarter increase was 22 billion, | 14:21 | |
and the third quarter increase in GNP, | 14:24 | |
even though larger than we had expected, was 17.9 billion. | 14:28 | |
Already there is an effect to be seen there. | 14:32 | |
At this point, I see no reason not to go along | 14:39 | |
with the view that the final quarter of the year | 14:43 | |
will show something a 14 or 15 billion increase in GNP. | 14:48 | |
This is compatible with say a 7% annual rate of growth | 14:54 | |
in the money GNP, but since we know | 15:00 | |
that the price level is growing at 3 1/2 to 4%, | 15:03 | |
this means that the real rate of increase of the GNP | 15:12 | |
is beginning to fall a little bit below our potential. | 15:16 | |
And this should show itself in some very modest increases | 15:20 | |
in unemployment. | 15:24 | |
And I think it will begin to show itself | 15:27 | |
in some very modest increases, decreases, in profits. | 15:29 | |
But so far, profits have been quite good. | 15:35 | |
In the meantime, the bankers, | 15:38 | |
who, in the middle of the year, | 15:40 | |
were impressed by fiscal restraint | 15:43 | |
and who began to buy long term government bonds, | 15:45 | |
have been feeling pretty blue. | 15:48 | |
They've been taking losses on them. | 15:52 | |
I gave a talk here at my home university, MIT, | 15:54 | |
on this general subject a week or so ago, | 16:00 | |
and the president of one of the biggest Boston banks | 16:03 | |
decided he'd get a free ride, | 16:09 | |
and he came over to find out | 16:12 | |
what the professor's crystal ball was showing. | 16:14 | |
And afterwards, he said to me very ruefully, | 16:17 | |
"Well, it's happened to us again. | 16:20 | |
"We bought a lot of long term government bonds | 16:22 | |
"and loan demand has been better than we expected, | 16:25 | |
"and now interest rates have begun to harden, | 16:28 | |
"and once again, we find ourselves | 16:31 | |
"actually having acted too soon. | 16:33 | |
"And we're selling out those particular bonds at a loss." | 16:35 | |
Well, my words to him will do him no good at this point, | 16:40 | |
but his time will come, but he was off | 16:45 | |
with respect to timing. | 16:49 | |
I would not, myself, expect interest rates | 16:50 | |
to ease very soon, until the Federal Reserve | 16:55 | |
sees some definite signs of weakening in the economy, | 17:00 | |
more than has yet shown up. | 17:03 | |
If I could give a completely informal | 17:06 | |
and off the record interpretation | 17:09 | |
of the Federal Reserve policy, | 17:11 | |
and this is not based upon inside information, | 17:12 | |
this is completely my surmise, | 17:15 | |
I think that something like this happened: | 17:17 | |
the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve said, | 17:20 | |
"We've been so slow in acting often in the past. | 17:24 | |
"This time, let's try to get our staff | 17:28 | |
"to make the best possible forecast it can, | 17:32 | |
"and let's act now on the basis of their forecast ahead." | 17:34 | |
We know this because Mr. Chairman, | 17:40 | |
William McChesney Martin Jr at the Business Council, | 17:43 | |
was reported in the Wall Street Journal | 17:47 | |
and the New York Times as having said | 17:48 | |
that his staff had predicted | 17:50 | |
something like a 12 billion increase, | 17:52 | |
and they had acted upon this basis. | 17:54 | |
I think Mr. Martin showed some signs | 17:56 | |
of regretting the last reduction in the discount rate. | 17:58 | |
He said it had to be done for technical reasons. | 18:04 | |
I'm sure he's sensitive to the criticism | 18:07 | |
that they let the money supply grow too rapidly in July. | 18:10 | |
I would not, myself right now, like to be in the shoes | 18:16 | |
of that man at the Chase Manhattan Bank | 18:19 | |
who made the final decision to lower the prime rate | 18:22 | |
by the full half a percent, | 18:26 | |
because the other banks who didn't want to follow him | 18:30 | |
and would regretfully follow it by 1/4%, | 18:32 | |
they seem to be turning out to be more nearly right | 18:35 | |
in their shading of that first standard forecast | 18:39 | |
that I gave you than was the Chase | 18:42 | |
in this particular decision. | 18:46 | |
And I wouldn't be surprised to see | 18:48 | |
that Chase climbing back off that limb | 18:50 | |
and rejoining the human race at the higher prime rate | 18:55 | |
that they have, rather than the rate that it led the way to | 18:59 | |
and which will not stick. | 19:05 | |
- | Now, Dr. Samuelson, if you could apply | 19:07 |
some of this information to the effect it will have | 19:09 | |
on Wall Street. | 19:12 | |
- | Well, let's get one thing clear at the very beginning, | 19:14 |
there's nothing sillier in life | 19:18 | |
than to have a college professor of economics | 19:19 | |
pontificating on what's going to happen | 19:22 | |
to the Dow Jones industrial averages. | 19:25 | |
And I certainly don't intend in this series | 19:28 | |
to give stock market advice. | 19:34 | |
I haven't been cleared with the SEC | 19:37 | |
and full disclosure requires that I stick to my last, | 19:40 | |
which is macroeconomics. | 19:46 | |
However, let me just comment on some of the broad outlines. | 19:48 | |
The stock market, as measured | 19:57 | |
by most of the index numbers of share prices, | 19:59 | |
has been rising since August. | 20:04 | |
Why? | 20:09 | |
Well, we never know why, but we can give | 20:10 | |
more than one reason after the fact. | 20:13 | |
I think that one reason that people are giving | 20:15 | |
is that the market had believed in fiscal restraint | 20:18 | |
and has been very agreeably surprised | 20:21 | |
to see that profits and general business activity | 20:24 | |
has been holding up better in the third quarter. | 20:29 | |
Then again, some people have said, | 20:34 | |
and I'm speaking of course now just before the election, | 20:37 | |
that this has been a Nixon market, | 20:41 | |
and that the stock market has been favorably impressed | 20:43 | |
by the Gallup polls, which showed Mr. Nixon | 20:51 | |
quite considerably out ahead. | 20:56 | |
As a matter of fact, since the polls have begun to show | 20:59 | |
Mr. Humphrey doing a little bit better, | 21:03 | |
and overtaking, at least in a small way, Mr. Nixon, | 21:04 | |
the market has had some hesitation. | 21:09 | |
I'm going to talk more next week after the election | 21:13 | |
about the election. | 21:17 | |
So I don't want to linger on this particular topic. | 21:18 | |
Finally, we've been having the peace talks in Paris. | 21:22 | |
Now, whatever they say in Moscow, | 21:26 | |
there isn't any doubt that the Wall Street | 21:28 | |
behaves as if it were a dove. | 21:32 | |
When there's peace news, the market goes up. | 21:37 | |
When there's hawkish war news, the market goes down. | 21:40 | |
At the moment that I'm speaking, | 21:46 | |
we have not had a breakthrough in Paris, | 21:50 | |
but the market has, since August, generally speaking, | 21:53 | |
been reacting in the light of that. | 21:59 | |
Now, I'm going to, on a future time, | 22:02 | |
talk about what I think would be the effects | 22:06 | |
of a cessation of the Vietnam War. | 22:09 | |
I think this is a very crucial economic problem, | 22:13 | |
and so I don't want to linger on this particular topic. | 22:19 | |
I might just say, though, | 22:24 | |
as part of the diary of my week as I'm talking, | 22:26 | |
that just yesterday, I went down to testify | 22:29 | |
before the Securities and Exchange Commission hearings | 22:35 | |
on stock market commissions. | 22:38 | |
I think I lost a few friends, at least temporarily, | 22:40 | |
in Wall Street because I argued strongly in favor | 22:43 | |
of freer competition to set commission rates, | 22:50 | |
particularly on large institutional business. | 22:54 | |
There was really a smell throughout the country | 22:58 | |
when the revelations were made about give ups | 23:01 | |
in the stock exchange commission area, | 23:05 | |
but as I argued yesterday in Washington, | 23:10 | |
the give ups were just a visible peek of the iceberg | 23:14 | |
and now that the stock exchange, somewhat under attack, | 23:18 | |
has agreed to abolish give ups, | 23:21 | |
that doesn't mean that the rest of the iceberg | 23:25 | |
of discriminatory pricing on these large transactions, | 23:27 | |
as enforced by minimum stock market commissions, | 23:32 | |
do not still remain as an evil, | 23:36 | |
as an evil that impairs the efficiency | 23:41 | |
of the capital market and also the equity. | 23:45 | |
But I, no doubt, will be coming back to that subject again. | 23:48 | |
One thing is very clear about economics these days | 23:54 | |
is that events happen so very fast | 24:00 | |
and of such a diverse character | 24:05 | |
that life is much, much more exciting than it used to be. | 24:08 | |
Sometimes, we think it's too exciting. | 24:15 | |
- | Dr. Samuelson, I've noticed you have been avoiding, | 24:18 |
I don't know if purposely, the balance of payments. | 24:21 | |
Is that sort of put to sleep for the next year? | 24:24 | |
- | Oh, God, no, the balance of payments | 24:27 |
is going to be with us, and time and again, | 24:31 | |
we're going to find ourselves turning back | 24:36 | |
to the problem of gold, the free market in Zurich and London | 24:38 | |
because we've just had a temporary respite | 24:47 | |
due to the inflow of capital from Europe. | 24:52 | |
A lot of people on the continent have discovered | 24:55 | |
that the Wall Street stock market is pretty attractive. | 24:58 | |
They're beginning to go for the go-go performance bit | 25:03 | |
in Wall Street, and as a result, | 25:07 | |
in the first couple of quarters of this year, | 25:10 | |
we've had capital flowing in on a vast scale. | 25:13 | |
Now, this is papered over. | 25:18 | |
Something that's happening below the surface, | 25:20 | |
which is an actual deterioration in our current balance, | 25:23 | |
our balance on private account | 25:29 | |
between the goods and services which we export | 25:31 | |
and the goods and services which we import. | 25:37 | |
That's still in miserable shape, | 25:40 | |
and there's a lot to be said about that. | 25:42 | |
This is Paul Samuelson and I'll be back with you next week | 25:48 | |
going over the current economic news. | 25:52 | |
- | Thank you very much, sir. | 25:55 |
And if you have a comment or a criticism | 25:57 | |
or perhaps a subject you would like to hear discussed | 25:59 | |
on this series, write to Instructional Dynamics Incorporated | 26:02 | |
166 East Superior Street, that's 166 East Superior Street, | 26:06 | |
Chicago, 60611. | 26:12 |
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