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- | Hello, this is David Francis, | 0:02 |
Financial Editor of the Christian Science Monitor. | 0:04 | |
I'd like to welcome you once more | 0:07 | |
on behalf of Instructional Dynamics Incorporated | 0:09 | |
to a visit with MIT's Nobel prize-winning economist | 0:12 | |
Paul Samuelson, well, the New Year will shortly be upon us, | 0:16 | |
Professor Samuelson, how is it going to begin | 0:20 | |
from an economic standpoint? | 0:23 | |
- | The 12th month of 1976 | 0:27 |
seems to be an upbeat. | 0:31 | |
Perhaps we should begin the talk about Carter luck, | 0:35 | |
because the election was held at the beginning of November | 0:38 | |
and so powerful is the influence | 0:41 | |
of the new president then, of the new team, | 0:43 | |
that even before the new president's taken office, | 0:47 | |
and before the new team was even selected, | 0:50 | |
the economy seemed to | 0:55 | |
begin to show some | 0:58 | |
second wind from the lull | 1:00 | |
which had been characterizing the economy | 1:03 | |
in the second, third, and the first part | 1:06 | |
of the last quarter of the year. | 1:09 | |
My guess is that | 1:13 | |
with the Christmas season looking to be pretty good | 1:15 | |
in terms of dollar increase over last year, | 1:20 | |
maybe something a little bit more | 1:24 | |
than increase in the price level, which is about 5%, | 1:26 | |
and with automobile sales surprising us a bit, | 1:31 | |
and with housing starts | 1:35 | |
behaving not too badly, | 1:38 | |
with the inevitable revisions in the figures | 1:41 | |
which are now beginning to come in, and which were coming in | 1:44 | |
in the slightly more favorable direction, | 1:47 | |
I would say that the last quarter of the year | 1:50 | |
is probably showing the growth of the economy | 1:54 | |
no worse than the third quarter of the year, | 1:58 | |
about 4% per year, which is a, | 2:02 | |
an improvement over the descending staircase pattern | 2:06 | |
which had been characterizing | 2:11 | |
the earlier quarters of the year. | 2:12 | |
Plenty to do, plenty of inadequacies in the recovery. | 2:16 | |
But really, | 2:22 | |
no avalanche downward, no | 2:24 | |
dominoes falling, no | 2:27 | |
gloomy forecast in these | 2:32 | |
10th, 11th, 12th days after Christmas. | 2:37 | |
- | Do you think the two-tier boost in oil prices | 2:40 |
by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, | 2:43 | |
or OPEC as we all call it, will add much to inflation? | 2:46 | |
- | Well, let's pause on what actually happened | 2:51 |
as a result of the OPEC meeting | 2:54 | |
because it's an interesting pattern, | 2:57 | |
interesting to analyze and perhaps important | 3:00 | |
for what it means for the future. | 3:04 | |
You recall that | 3:08 | |
people were speaking about increases in the price of oil | 3:11 | |
of 10% to 15% range, those were the leaks. | 3:15 | |
Those represented what the OPEC countries wanted, | 3:20 | |
but when the meters, | 3:25 | |
the leaders actually came together to meet, | 3:27 | |
it turned out that Saudi Arabia | 3:30 | |
wanted to hold the price increase down to 5%. | 3:32 | |
And actually the representative from that country | 3:36 | |
left the meetings early, not agreeing to go above 5%. | 3:40 | |
Most of the crowd, with only two exceptions I believe, | 3:45 | |
asked for a 10% increase. | 3:51 | |
Saudi Arabia not only raised its price by only 5%, | 3:54 | |
but more important, the announcement came from Saudis, | 3:58 | |
from the Saudis that they would expand | 4:02 | |
their production ceilings | 4:05 | |
and meet all the business that they could at a 5% increase. | 4:07 | |
The result is more favorable | 4:12 | |
than the pessimists had feared. | 4:16 | |
The result is about as favorable | 4:21 | |
as the most realistic of the optimists had hoped for. | 4:24 | |
Now, 5% is obviously better than 10. | 4:29 | |
Some mean between 5% and 10% is obviously | 4:33 | |
better from the standpoint of the consuming nations | 4:37 | |
than the 15 that was talked about, | 4:41 | |
but even more important, even more hopeful, | 4:45 | |
from the standpoint of consuming countries, | 4:49 | |
which I shall assume for the sake of this argument | 4:51 | |
have an interest in a low price of oil, | 4:54 | |
as low as it can be, now, we can't | 4:58 | |
push that too far, I don't believe | 5:02 | |
it's in the interest of the consuming countries | 5:05 | |
to have a two-dollar price of oil right now, | 5:07 | |
if that two-dollar price of oil | 5:09 | |
is based upon a mistake in appraisal | 5:12 | |
of how much the demand will be over future years | 5:14 | |
and how much oil there is in the ground, known, | 5:17 | |
and to be discovered. | 5:21 | |
But still from the standpoint of Western Europe, | 5:24 | |
North America, and the most of the Third World countries | 5:27 | |
who do not themselves export oil, | 5:31 | |
the lower the price in the neighborhood | 5:35 | |
of 11, 12 dollars a barrel, | 5:37 | |
the better it is for those countries. | 5:41 | |
Now what is interesting is two-tiered system | 5:44 | |
because there now is a strain on the consensus of OPEC. | 5:49 | |
T.S. Eliot wrote How The World Ends | 5:54 | |
and Robert Frost gave an alternative scenario, | 5:57 | |
students of oligopoly are always very interested | 6:01 | |
in the way oligopolies topple, | 6:03 | |
the way they come apart at the seams. | 6:06 | |
One of the ways that they topple | 6:09 | |
is because the people inside the club can't agree | 6:13 | |
explicitly on a common price. | 6:20 | |
Another way, more important, | 6:24 | |
is although they've agreed for the record on a common price, | 6:26 | |
they in fact under-the-table disagree, | 6:29 | |
and each member of the cartel cannot sell all he wants to | 6:32 | |
at the rigged, too-high price | 6:36 | |
and they begin to discount under the table. | 6:39 | |
I don't think we have that yet, | 6:44 | |
but we do have a little discord in Eden. | 6:46 | |
I say Eden because I believe that | 6:49 | |
it was that part of the world where | 6:52 | |
life began at its most pleasant, | 6:56 | |
although here was a little discord there. | 6:59 | |
I know there are a number of people | 7:03 | |
who are beginning to hope that OPEC, | 7:05 | |
as an effective monopoly, | 7:10 | |
as an effective oligopoly or cartel, | 7:13 | |
is now in serious danger of breaking up. | 7:17 | |
I do not see the evidence for that view. | 7:20 | |
Oil is still pretty scarce. | 7:24 | |
The countries that are consuming it and importing it | 7:26 | |
are not carrying through | 7:30 | |
on their first thrust of conservation. | 7:34 | |
And what is most important of all, in breaking down cartels, | 7:37 | |
alternative sources of supply | 7:42 | |
have not yet been found in abundance. | 7:45 | |
We have North Sea oil coming onstream; Norway, the UK, | 7:49 | |
the Holland are the beneficiaries of that, | 7:55 | |
and so are the rest of us. | 7:57 | |
We have the Northern Slope oil coming from Alaska. | 7:59 | |
We have an expansion in Mexico. | 8:04 | |
We do not have a NEPT expansion of old or new oil | 8:07 | |
in the inside of continental United States. | 8:11 | |
The fact that a tanker, | 8:14 | |
poorly run, | 8:18 | |
under the jungle of non-regulation, | 8:20 | |
probably owned by owners | 8:25 | |
whose faces we may never be able to identify, | 8:28 | |
not in a position to be sued | 8:33 | |
for the over 100 million dollars which the fishing industry | 8:36 | |
is now pressing in a suit because | 8:40 | |
a straw nominee in a Liberian Registry, | 8:43 | |
how do you get behind that and see whether any assets | 8:48 | |
you can fasten upon? | 8:51 | |
Well, the fact that that ecological disaster happened | 8:53 | |
will I suppose tend to slow down the rate at which | 8:57 | |
the Georgia Banks expiration of oil | 9:03 | |
off the Atlantic Coast comes into being. | 9:07 | |
Nuclear energy is stymied, | 9:11 | |
stymied by the very real and perhaps some imaginary dangers | 9:13 | |
with respect to safety. | 9:19 | |
All of the American public utilities find themselves | 9:23 | |
behind schedule in their nuclear installations. | 9:28 | |
The expense of those installations, | 9:32 | |
what they bring down to the bottom line, | 9:35 | |
is turning out to be very disappointing. | 9:37 | |
Coal and oil, oil shale, are jokes | 9:41 | |
as far as being of practical importance to | 9:45 | |
scare a goose, | 9:50 | |
or a Mideast chieftain, oil chieftain. | 9:52 | |
We... | 9:57 | |
Have the opiate of the | 10:01 | |
conservationists, the dream | 10:05 | |
that wind power will become important, | 10:09 | |
maybe tide power will become important, | 10:13 | |
and that solar power will become important. | 10:15 | |
Now, it's not impossible | 10:20 | |
that we will get some marginal help | 10:22 | |
from dedicated people, people who care | 10:26 | |
and who go out of their way to take the risks | 10:32 | |
with respect to solar heating of homes, | 10:35 | |
solar heating of water supply. | 10:39 | |
Maybe a little bit more could come from windmills. | 10:43 | |
It's not impossible that | 10:47 | |
the tides under a superhuman effort | 10:50 | |
and with little bit of luck | 10:53 | |
could contribute one or two percent | 10:54 | |
of the total energy load. | 10:56 | |
We've had in France some success, the Bay of Biscayne. | 10:58 | |
But by and large, there is nothing realistically | 11:04 | |
in sight which would make the OPEC | 11:09 | |
monopoly shiver in its boots | 11:13 | |
because its day of monopoly is over. | 11:15 | |
So I think that we've been reasonably lucky | 11:19 | |
that the 5% increase will hurt. | 11:24 | |
A lot of oil's gonna be sold at 10%, not 5%. | 11:30 | |
A lot of the oil that's sold at 5% | 11:35 | |
is going to have tacked onto products, | 11:37 | |
one way or the other, | 11:42 | |
a part of the economic rent, | 11:44 | |
part of the difference between the 5% increase | 11:47 | |
and the 10% increase. | 11:49 | |
So I think that it still is probably the case | 11:51 | |
that the Saudis talk a slightly better game | 11:54 | |
than they in fact deliver. | 11:57 | |
There's an effective increase in the price of oil | 12:01 | |
therefore, which the consuming world will face | 12:06 | |
of something between 10 and 15 percent. | 12:11 | |
Maybe it's nearer to 15 percent than to 10 percent. | 12:16 | |
We can live with it, we in the world, | 12:22 | |
we in the United States, | 12:26 | |
we in the affluent part of the world, | 12:28 | |
but it will hurt. | 12:31 | |
It will mean a balance-of-payments problem. | 12:36 | |
It will hurt for the countries | 12:39 | |
which are just on the margin of subsistence. | 12:40 | |
And it'll not only hurt them, | 12:45 | |
but it'll hurt them in such a way | 12:47 | |
that it will be felt by us because | 12:49 | |
you probably have noticed, David, | 12:53 | |
that 1976 was a record year for international loans. | 12:55 | |
Many of those rather on the soft side. | 13:02 | |
So the bell tolls not just for India and Pakistan | 13:05 | |
and Southeast Asia, | 13:10 | |
and the countries of Central America, South America, | 13:11 | |
and Africa who can ill afford | 13:16 | |
any increase in their energy bill, | 13:18 | |
but when it tolls for them, it tolls for us because | 13:20 | |
we and the other leading countries do | 13:24 | |
de facto find ourselves having to supply | 13:29 | |
some of the financing for their deficits. | 13:32 | |
- | I see that Mr. Yamani, the Saudi Arabian Oil Minister, | 13:38 |
indicated after the talks that the increase | 13:43 | |
in Saudi production may not be as great | 13:46 | |
as he first spoke of. | 13:48 | |
- | Well, yes, even if he were to remove all | 13:51 |
ostensible ceilings, you have to bring into being | 13:57 | |
something which has not been in being. | 14:01 | |
And one of the important laws | 14:04 | |
that one learns in economics is that the long-run elasticity | 14:06 | |
of supply of products, of wheat, of oil, of copper, | 14:12 | |
tends to be rather great. | 14:16 | |
If you raise the price over a long period of time, | 14:18 | |
you will elicit a very considerable | 14:21 | |
response of quantity supplied. | 14:24 | |
But in the short run, | 14:28 | |
that elasticity of supply tends to be very narrow. | 14:30 | |
Often, it leads in the short run to perverse affects. | 14:34 | |
Balance of payments get worse rather than better | 14:37 | |
when the therapy of exchange depreciation is applied. | 14:39 | |
And here, we must reckon with | 14:43 | |
the short-run inelasticities | 14:47 | |
that have nothing to do with the volition | 14:49 | |
of the heads of state in that part of the world. | 14:51 | |
- | Would you like to comment briefly | 14:55 |
about the boost in certain steel product prices | 14:57 | |
before we go on to Mr. Carter's economic team? | 15:00 | |
- | Yes. | 15:05 |
It used to be sound economic doctrine | 15:07 | |
that cost of production has nothing to do with supply. | 15:11 | |
I'm sorry, cost of production had nothing to do with price | 15:15 | |
except as it affects supply. | 15:18 | |
Now, if demand is weak, under the old fashioned economics, | 15:22 | |
supply being what it typically is, | 15:29 | |
that will result in a softening of price. | 15:32 | |
Today, we live in a somewhat different world. | 15:36 | |
People keep books, they know what their costs are, | 15:40 | |
and when steel is sold by, | 15:43 | |
I can't say one monopolist, I can't say two duopolists, | 15:49 | |
but by a dozen important sellers, | 15:55 | |
each with some regional pricing power, | 16:01 | |
then cost of production | 16:06 | |
can have an influence on the prices charged. | 16:08 | |
And so we've had the paradox that at a time | 16:11 | |
even when demand was weak and weakening, | 16:14 | |
the steel producers have asked for a higher price increase. | 16:17 | |
Now, to some degree, | 16:21 | |
it's been laughed off as simply being | 16:23 | |
their fear of price controls under the new administration. | 16:27 | |
For the record, so it is argued, | 16:32 | |
they're asking for a higher price. | 16:34 | |
That higher price has absolutely no meaning | 16:36 | |
because if the demand isn't there, | 16:38 | |
they will just discount under the table. | 16:40 | |
But in case they're caught with their ceilings down, | 16:43 | |
lest they be caught with their ceilings down, | 16:48 | |
they're raising the price. | 16:50 | |
I don't think it's that simple, because | 16:51 | |
there is some discounting. | 16:53 | |
But I think that the price, although it's shaded, | 16:55 | |
sticks at a higher effective average level. | 16:59 | |
Moreover, we do not have a competitive free market in steel. | 17:03 | |
Right now, we are full of de facto quotas | 17:06 | |
which regulate the amount of steel | 17:12 | |
which comes into the United States. | 17:13 | |
As we know, Western Europe has even softer recoveries | 17:15 | |
than we do; the same is true in Japan. | 17:20 | |
Under the normal laws of supply and demand, | 17:23 | |
that would mean that the excess capacity | 17:26 | |
of Japanese steel mills and of Belgian steel mills, | 17:29 | |
just to take two examples, | 17:33 | |
would be available to depress the price | 17:34 | |
and hold down the price within the United States. | 17:37 | |
But right now, | 17:39 | |
the Japanese are meeting | 17:42 | |
to discuss how they can limit their sales of steel | 17:46 | |
in the United States and in Western Europe because | 17:49 | |
for sensible political reasons, | 17:53 | |
they realize their vulnerability | 17:57 | |
if they let supply and demand operate in the normal manner. | 17:59 | |
Now, my point is that this is not lost upon Pittsburgh. | 18:02 | |
Pittsburgh knows | 18:07 | |
what it can do with respect to | 18:09 | |
increasing the list price and the, | 18:11 | |
the price after discount and get away with it | 18:15 | |
because they know they will not lose their market | 18:18 | |
in great degree | 18:21 | |
to marauders from abroad. | 18:24 | |
So I think that | 18:27 | |
it's a, it's a | 18:31 | |
sad thing if that is happening because | 18:33 | |
of nothing more than a stiffening | 18:39 | |
of the effective degree of oligopoly power of the industry. | 18:41 | |
On the other hand, one mustn't rush to conclusions. | 18:46 | |
You know, in economic history and in real life, | 18:50 | |
events do not identify themselves and say, | 18:53 | |
I'm an increase in price due to | 18:56 | |
an increase in monopoly power. | 18:59 | |
I, on the contrast, by contrast, am an increase in price | 19:01 | |
due to legitimate increase in demand relative to supply. | 19:05 | |
That's not the way the time series come in. | 19:08 | |
And it may be that we're beginning to see | 19:11 | |
some competitive increases in the yield | 19:16 | |
or profit return in the steel industry | 19:21 | |
and that's why the industry is able | 19:23 | |
to make these price increases stick. | 19:24 | |
Now, to the consumer, the blow is just as serious by | 19:27 | |
any hand, whether it's one or the other, | 19:32 | |
but it makes quite a difference to the economist because | 19:35 | |
how we ought to judge it and how we ought to | 19:38 | |
make our predictions about the future | 19:41 | |
and what we think ought to be done about it | 19:43 | |
does depend very sensitively | 19:47 | |
to what identification you make. | 19:50 | |
As far as I can see now, | 19:52 | |
part of the increase in the price of steel is because | 19:55 | |
of an attempt to recover cost increases, | 19:59 | |
an attempt which would not be successful | 20:04 | |
under really competitive conditions. | 20:06 | |
- | Okay, now let's have a look at | 20:09 |
the president-elect's new economic team. | 20:12 | |
What is your judgment of these appointees? | 20:17 | |
- | Well, first, my own judgment is rather favorable. | 20:20 |
But I think what's more important, | 20:26 | |
let's try to gauge what the judgment has been | 20:28 | |
of the different important groups in the community. | 20:33 | |
I think the business community | 20:37 | |
has been rather pleasantly surprised | 20:38 | |
by President-Elect Carter's demeanor | 20:40 | |
since taking office-- | 20:45 | |
- | You mean-- | |
- | His press conferences-- | 20:46 |
- | Since being elected. | |
- | I'm sorry, since being elected, yes. | 20:49 |
And I think that on the whole, | 20:52 | |
they've been rather pleasantly surprised | 20:55 | |
by his appointments. | 21:00 | |
The people who have been least happy | 21:02 | |
on his appointments have been | 21:06 | |
those who do not typically represent the conservative | 21:09 | |
end of the political spectrum. | 21:14 | |
I believe that blacks have been somewhat disappointed | 21:16 | |
by the number of blacks | 21:21 | |
who have been appointed to the cabinet or the high office | 21:25 | |
and by the composition of the blacks who have been appointed | 21:29 | |
and they've been somewhat | 21:33 | |
disappointed by some particular blacks | 21:37 | |
who have not been named to the cabinet. | 21:39 | |
The same is true in a degree I believe, of women, | 21:43 | |
particularly the more active, liberated women, | 21:46 | |
not all of whom perhaps regard | 21:51 | |
let's say, one of the people who, | 21:55 | |
who I think will make a very good cabinet officer, | 21:58 | |
Juanita Kreps, Professor from Duke University, | 22:00 | |
Vice-President there, she would be considered by many women | 22:03 | |
as an establishment token woman. | 22:08 | |
She's on the board of the New York Stock Exchange. | 22:12 | |
She's on JC Penney board, perhaps for all I know | 22:17 | |
on the U.S. Steel or IBM board. | 22:21 | |
At least three members of the cabinet | 22:23 | |
are from the IBM Board. | 22:25 | |
- | Yeah. | |
- | Now, of course, you don't get on the IBM board | 22:27 |
unless you represent the same constituencies | 22:31 | |
whom Carter wants to represent. | 22:35 | |
The IBM board is a political board. | 22:39 | |
They are looking for women, they are looking for blacks, | 22:42 | |
they are looking for liberals who will not rock the boat, | 22:44 | |
they are looking for outside prudent businessmen | 22:49 | |
as well as for the people picked on the board | 22:53 | |
because they are rising officers in the IBM organization | 22:58 | |
or because, to go back to the traditional constituency, | 23:03 | |
which I almost neglected to mention, | 23:08 | |
the people who own stock in IBM. | 23:10 | |
Well, the most controversial appointment | 23:14 | |
which I will, which I would suppose will still be | 23:19 | |
confirmed by the Senate | 23:23 | |
is that of Judge Bell for Attorney General. | 23:25 | |
He's a Southerner and being a Southerner, he is | 23:30 | |
burdened with the record | 23:37 | |
in judicial decisions that one expects from even | 23:41 | |
the more liberal Southern judges | 23:46 | |
in comparison with Northern judges. | 23:48 | |
He belongs to clubs | 23:52 | |
which in Atlanta, | 23:56 | |
do not in fact | 24:00 | |
elect blacks to their membership, | 24:04 | |
do not in fact elect Jews or very many, if any, | 24:08 | |
and this | 24:14 | |
is known and has been held against him | 24:17 | |
and I don't think he was particularly astute in | 24:19 | |
anticipating the outcry. | 24:22 | |
You and I know that there are clubs in Boston | 24:26 | |
and in Chicago and in Washington D.C. | 24:31 | |
which do not have, | 24:35 | |
quote, a representation of every ethnic group | 24:39 | |
in the community and every group by gender, | 24:44 | |
by race. | 24:48 | |
But Southerners, I think, have an extra | 24:53 | |
burden in this matter. | 24:56 | |
Now I'm looking at this from standpoint of the, | 24:58 | |
of the people from the South, | 25:02 | |
but looked at from people who say | 25:05 | |
that the Attorney General's office | 25:08 | |
is most sensitive office in the land | 25:09 | |
and what you need there is somebody who is outstanding | 25:11 | |
as representing even-handedness, | 25:16 | |
this is a disappointing appointment. | 25:18 | |
Nevertheless, I think that I have to reserve judgment | 25:21 | |
because from the little I know about his judicial decisions, | 25:23 | |
it is not at all clear that he will not be | 25:28 | |
an excellent liberal | 25:34 | |
and effective Attorney General. | 25:36 | |
Justice Butler, | 25:40 | |
no, Black of the Supreme Court | 25:44 | |
who was one of the most liberal justices | 25:48 | |
in my lifetime on that court had a much | 25:51 | |
worse-looking record | 25:56 | |
at the time that he was appointed to the Supreme Court. | 25:58 | |
You probably, David, are too young to remember, | 26:02 | |
but he had been a member of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s | 26:04 | |
and this didn't come out until the eve of his appointment | 26:09 | |
and he had to go on radio and explain and eat some | 26:13 | |
humble pie about that. | 26:17 | |
Well now, apparently | 26:20 | |
in a small Alabama town in the 1920s, | 26:22 | |
to have been a member of the Ku Klux Klan | 26:26 | |
did not mean that you were necessarily | 26:29 | |
on the lunatic right fringe with respect to | 26:32 | |
hatred of Catholics, Jews, Negroes. | 26:37 | |
It was part of the way of life at that time | 26:40 | |
for any rising politician, | 26:43 | |
Attorney General of a county, district attorney. | 26:46 | |
And Black, you might say, was caught in | 26:50 | |
the more race and folkways of his time | 26:54 | |
and of his, of his place, but let's | 26:58 | |
go from that position, which is not within my | 27:02 | |
specialization in any case, | 27:08 | |
the Secretary of General, the Secretary of Treasury | 27:11 | |
Blumenthal is well-thought-of in the business community. | 27:14 | |
He apparently was a very successful businessman at Bendix. | 27:19 | |
He rose very rapidly in that area. | 27:23 | |
But he also has been something of the candidate | 27:27 | |
of the Liberals in the Carter Camp | 27:31 | |
because they know him, we know him, | 27:35 | |
from his participation in the Kennedy and Johnson period. | 27:38 | |
He is the Most Blessed of All People; | 27:43 | |
he has a PhD in economics, I believe, | 27:46 | |
from Princeton University. | 27:48 | |
He was part of the Kennedy Round negotiating team | 27:52 | |
back in 1963, '64, '65; | 27:55 | |
and he's considered to be a much less conservative person | 28:00 | |
than say, his predecessor, William Simon. | 28:05 | |
So I think that's a very good appointment | 28:10 | |
by my lights, from all I know about his expert abilities | 28:12 | |
and his viewpoints. | 28:16 | |
Charlie Schultz is, I think, an excellent choice | 28:19 | |
for chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers. | 28:22 | |
He graces the job rather than the job gracing him. | 28:26 | |
I think it shows that he was willing to pitch in | 28:29 | |
at that level, | 28:32 | |
which he needn't | 28:34 | |
necessarily have done. | 28:37 | |
I know less about the new Budget Director, | 28:40 | |
Lance, but he has conducted himself well, and, | 28:45 | |
I would say that by and large, | 28:51 | |
these are | 28:55 | |
excellent appointments. | 28:57 | |
Schlesinger at Energy is a little controversial | 29:00 | |
because he was considered a hawk in the Defense department, | 29:02 | |
but I think that he will take seriously | 29:05 | |
the number one task which is the task of conserving energy. | 29:08 | |
Carter has a good team and I think | 29:14 | |
we're all now waiting in the wings to see what it is that, | 29:17 | |
that he's going to do for us. | 29:21 | |
- | Thank you very much. | 29:24 |
If you subscribers would like to | 29:26 | |
ask questions of Professor Paul Samuelson, | 29:27 | |
or suggest subjects for him to discuss, | 29:30 | |
please write to Instructional Dynamics Incorporated | 29:33 | |
450 East Ohio Street | 29:37 | |
Chicago, Illinois 60611. | 29:40 | |
Okay. | 29:46 |
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