Christensen, Faye
Loading the media player...
Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
- | Well, Faye, thank you so much | 0:02 |
for agreeing to be interviewed, | 0:04 | |
and if we could start | 0:06 | |
with some background material. | 0:07 | |
If you could just say, | 0:09 | |
and spell your name please. | 0:10 | |
- | Right, Faye, F-A-Y-E, | 0:13 |
Christensen, C-H-R-I-S-T-E-N-S-E-N. | 0:16 | |
- | Thank you so much. | 0:22 |
Are you lay or clergy? | 0:24 | |
- | I'm lay. | 0:26 |
- | Your denominational affiliation? | 0:27 |
- | The United Methodist Church. | 0:30 |
- | Thank you. | 0:32 |
Faye, where and when were you born? | 0:33 | |
- | I was born in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin | 0:36 |
on January 10th, 1944. | 0:39 | |
- | Oh, thank you. | 0:42 |
Where did you go to school? | 0:44 | |
- | I graduated high school in Chippewa Falls, | 0:47 |
and then went to the University | 0:50 | |
of Wisconsin at Eau Claire. | 0:52 | |
Received a B.A. in Art, | 0:54 | |
English and Sociology, | 0:56 | |
and then later on received | 0:58 | |
Master of Management and Administration | 1:00 | |
in the Twin Cities | 1:04 | |
from the Metropolitan State University. | 1:05 | |
- | Oh, okay. | 1:08 |
So what work or ministry were you doing | 1:10 | |
at the time of Reimagining? | 1:12 | |
1993 around that time? | 1:15 | |
- | Yes, right. | 1:17 |
I had been involved | 1:19 | |
in The Commission on the Status | 1:21 | |
and Role of Women | 1:23 | |
for quite a while before that. | 1:27 | |
I was asked to be | 1:32 | |
the first chair | 1:34 | |
of the first COSROW in the Minnesota | 1:37 | |
Conference in a local church. | 1:39 | |
- | Really? | 1:41 |
- | Yeah, and that was in 1978. | 1:42 |
It happened | 1:45 | |
in Fridley United Methodist Church. | 1:46 | |
I think we started out | 1:50 | |
with maybe three of us, | 1:52 | |
and then it grew to six of us. | 1:54 | |
Then later on, | 1:59 | |
quite a bit later on | 2:01 | |
then here comes Reimagining, | 2:02 | |
and that just fit so beautifully | 2:04 | |
with our goals and our attitudes | 2:07 | |
about women in the church. | 2:09 | |
- | You know, I think COSROW is a very | 2:12 |
important organization as well. | 2:14 | |
Could you say a little bit | 2:16 | |
about how you got involved, | 2:17 | |
and how this got started? | 2:19 | |
- | Oh, yeah, yeah. | 2:21 |
Do you want the long version, | 2:27 | |
or the short version? | 2:29 | |
- | Oh, either one you want to give me. | 2:31 |
- | Okay, fine. | 2:32 |
First of all, consciousness raising. | 2:36 | |
In grade school my Aunt Clara asked me | 2:38 | |
what I wanted to be when I grew up, | 2:41 | |
and I said an animal doctor | 2:43 | |
because I loved animals. | 2:44 | |
She informed me that girls | 2:46 | |
could not be veterinarians | 2:47 | |
that that was a job for boys. | 2:49 | |
So, then I said, okay, well, | 2:51 | |
then I'll be a regular doctor. | 2:53 | |
She, again, informed me | 2:55 | |
that men are doctors, not women, | 2:57 | |
and then she added, | 2:59 | |
you want to be a nurse, Faye, | 3:01 | |
but I didn't want to be a nurse. | 3:03 | |
Then I soon learned that I had | 3:05 | |
four occupations open to me. | 3:06 | |
Nurse, teacher, secretary, or mother, | 3:09 | |
so then you fast forward to high school. | 3:13 | |
Here's my new sister-in-law, | 3:16 | |
Catherine Christensen. | 3:18 | |
She really raised my consciousness | 3:22 | |
about women's inequality and sexism | 3:25 | |
within our society. | 3:27 | |
She gave me a copy of Betty Friedan's | 3:30 | |
The Feminine Mystique. | 3:32 | |
We talked about feminism. | 3:34 | |
Then when my husband, | 3:37 | |
Russ Christensen, | 3:39 | |
and I dated in our senior year | 3:41 | |
of high school, | 3:44 | |
and then all through college | 3:45 | |
we had long conversations | 3:47 | |
about social justice in the church. | 3:49 | |
That really fit into my | 3:52 | |
abiding interest in feminism. | 3:54 | |
He grew up in the Methodist Church. | 3:57 | |
I was raised in the Lutheran Church. | 3:59 | |
It was Methodist at that time, | 4:05 | |
not United Methodist, | 4:07 | |
but I liked the fact | 4:08 | |
that the Methodist's | 4:10 | |
put faith into action | 4:11 | |
in a manner that I didn't see happening | 4:13 | |
in the Lutheran church. | 4:16 | |
My understanding of the Lutheran Church | 4:18 | |
during that period of time | 4:20 | |
was that the church was about missions, | 4:22 | |
which was wonderful, | 4:25 | |
and about a personal relationship | 4:27 | |
with Jesus Christ, | 4:28 | |
but it was not so much | 4:30 | |
about social justice. | 4:31 | |
I started to realize | 4:35 | |
Jesus was all about | 4:38 | |
social justice issues | 4:39 | |
as well as missions, | 4:42 | |
so that was very appealing to me | 4:44 | |
that the Methodist's had this piece | 4:49 | |
of social justice that really | 4:53 | |
resonated with my consciousness. | 4:55 | |
Then after college graduation | 4:58 | |
Russ and I got married. | 5:01 | |
At that point I had one foot | 5:05 | |
in the Lutheran church, | 5:07 | |
and one in the Methodist church. | 5:08 | |
I was trying to integrate | 5:15 | |
my feminism into my faith, | 5:16 | |
and theological understanding. | 5:18 | |
Then Russ tells me | 5:22 | |
about Jeanne Audrey Powers | 5:23 | |
who is an ordained clergywoman | 5:26 | |
in the Methodist church. | 5:27 | |
It just blew my mind | 5:28 | |
that a woman could be a minister. | 5:30 | |
That made me recall my conversations | 5:36 | |
with my Aunt Clara, you know, | 5:38 | |
about what girls could do, | 5:41 | |
and what girls could not do, | 5:43 | |
and all that, | 5:44 | |
but Reverend Powers has inspired me | 5:46 | |
immensely back then and still does. | 5:50 | |
Then in the 1970's | 5:56 | |
for almost eight years I belonged | 5:59 | |
to a consciousness raising group | 6:00 | |
in the Twin Cities. | 6:02 | |
A group of women, | 6:04 | |
I guess, about a dozen of us | 6:06 | |
from different safe traditions. | 6:07 | |
We got together every Thursday evening | 6:10 | |
sat on the floor in each of our homes, | 6:13 | |
and we discussed feminism, | 6:15 | |
and the barriers to that, and our faith. | 6:18 | |
I look back and I can't believe | 6:22 | |
that we did that every Thursday night | 6:24 | |
for almost eight years. | 6:27 | |
- | That's impressive, wow. | 6:31 |
- | I know, even though at the time | 6:34 |
we didn't think too much about it. | 6:35 | |
Thursday night would come, | 6:37 | |
and we would gather at one of our homes. | 6:38 | |
Sat on the floor, had conversations, | 6:41 | |
so we're at home, | 6:43 | |
crackers, cheese, and wine. | 6:44 | |
That was a very meaningful | 6:48 | |
experience for me. | 6:49 | |
As my feminist consciousness raised | 6:54 | |
I realized that my church | 6:58 | |
was no longer feeding my soul. | 6:59 | |
I, you know, realized all the songs | 7:05 | |
were male centered, | 7:07 | |
in the liturgy and the prayers. | 7:08 | |
Then I looked beyond that, | 7:11 | |
and I saw that men were | 7:12 | |
having all the finance, administration, | 7:16 | |
trustees positions, | 7:18 | |
and even the ushers. | 7:20 | |
Women were in the kitchen | 7:22 | |
for the most part. | 7:24 | |
So, the visible positions | 7:27 | |
were all taken by men. | 7:29 | |
There I began to realize that | 7:34 | |
I began feeling | 7:37 | |
like less of a whole person | 7:39 | |
when I left the church | 7:42 | |
then when I had walked in, | 7:43 | |
and there was just something | 7:45 | |
terribly wrong with that picture. | 7:46 | |
So I stopped going to church | 7:49 | |
for quite a few months because | 7:51 | |
I couldn't integrate a male God | 7:54 | |
into my faith, | 7:55 | |
but Russ, and our two sons continued | 7:58 | |
to attend church and I stayed home | 8:02 | |
for quite a length of time. | 8:05 | |
I'm kind of a God woman, I suppose. | 8:10 | |
In 1978, my pastor, | 8:12 | |
Jim McChesney at that time told me | 8:15 | |
about this new Commission | 8:17 | |
within the United Methodist Church | 8:19 | |
that's called Commission | 8:22 | |
on the Status and Role of Women. | 8:23 | |
He asked if I'd be interested | 8:26 | |
in starting the first | 8:27 | |
local church COSROW | 8:28 | |
in the Minnesota Conference. | 8:30 | |
I didn't know anything about COSROW, | 8:32 | |
but I thought | 8:34 | |
that sounds like it's for me, | 8:35 | |
so I started going back to church. | 8:36 | |
A few other women who had | 8:42 | |
kind of liked thinking | 8:45 | |
we formed COSROW. | 8:48 | |
I worked with | 8:50 | |
Sue (mumbles) was the chair | 8:53 | |
of COSROW for Minnesota at the time. | 8:55 | |
We even had a little group | 9:00 | |
working for Harriet Tubman Women's Shelter. | 9:03 | |
We provided for some | 9:06 | |
of the needs of women | 9:08 | |
who were going back into the community. | 9:09 | |
You know, furniture, | 9:14 | |
toys for the kids. | 9:16 | |
The one woman that I recall, | 9:19 | |
had shattered glasses | 9:21 | |
that she was wearing. | 9:23 | |
She explained that her | 9:25 | |
husband had beat her, | 9:26 | |
and that was why her | 9:28 | |
glasses were broken. | 9:30 | |
So I put the word out, | 9:32 | |
and immediately got free service | 9:35 | |
from one of our members who is | 9:38 | |
an optometrist and ophthalmologist, | 9:42 | |
and we got her some glasses | 9:46 | |
that she didn't have to be reminded | 9:48 | |
every time she looked through her | 9:51 | |
broken glasses of the awful situation | 9:53 | |
she had come from, | 9:55 | |
but then some of the other things we did. | 9:57 | |
We gathered petitions for the ERA. | 9:59 | |
- | Wow. | 10:02 |
- | Yeah, uh-huh. | 10:04 |
We had | 10:06 | |
a fellowship hall in their | 10:09 | |
community room and sat down. | 10:11 | |
We will not | 10:14 | |
vacation or go to these states. | 10:16 | |
I have a list of them, | 10:18 | |
which | 10:20 | |
were not | 10:22 | |
for the ERA, so a bunch of people | 10:24 | |
from the congregation signed them, | 10:26 | |
and we sent them in to whomever, | 10:28 | |
but then we started looking at | 10:31 | |
the church, the worship service itself, | 10:36 | |
and exclusive handwritten news, | 10:38 | |
and calls to worship. | 10:40 | |
Never leaving anything alone | 10:44 | |
we monitored, | 10:47 | |
and gave pink slips to the pastor | 10:49 | |
who slipped up with his language, | 10:51 | |
but, you know, part of the task | 10:55 | |
was that we discussed it | 10:58 | |
with our pastor afterwards | 10:59 | |
when does he have a pink slip | 11:03 | |
so kind of interesting things, | 11:04 | |
but at that point I realized | 11:06 | |
that I had found my niche in the church. | 11:08 | |
In a certain way COSROW probably saved | 11:15 | |
my spiritual life at that point | 11:17 | |
because I was able to integrate | 11:20 | |
feminism and my faith in God. | 11:22 | |
I just really expanded | 11:25 | |
my whole journey. | 11:27 | |
- | That is wonderful, Faye. | 11:33 |
Do you mind if I interrupt | 11:35 | |
just quickly and make sure | 11:36 | |
I get all the details right. | 11:37 | |
This is wonderful. | 11:39 | |
This is just great. | 11:40 | |
I want to clarify, | 11:42 | |
your COSROW was that the first one | 11:43 | |
in a church in Minnesota? | 11:45 | |
Is that what it was? | 11:47 | |
An individual parish, a church? | 11:48 | |
- | Right, like in an individual | 11:50 |
church setting, right, yeah. | 11:52 | |
- | Got it, okay, good. | 11:53 |
- | I think, probably, Hennepin Avenue | 11:55 |
was maybe a year later or so. | 11:58 | |
Then Prospect Park and a few others. | 12:01 | |
- | How much direction did you get | 12:05 |
from the General Commission? | 12:08 | |
Did you kind of do things on your own? | 12:11 | |
Did you get information? | 12:12 | |
- | We actually did. | 12:15 |
I think at that point | 12:20 | |
I didn't even realize | 12:21 | |
that there was a General Commission | 12:22 | |
on the Status and Role of Women. | 12:24 | |
We worked with the Minnesota COSROW. | 12:29 | |
They were helpful | 12:34 | |
as far as resources, and so on. | 12:35 | |
Then several years later | 12:37 | |
my co-chair and I, | 12:40 | |
Susan Dunlop, you may know her. | 12:43 | |
- | Yeah. | 12:46 |
- | Susan Dunlop, | 12:47 |
we were co-chairs at COSROW. | 12:48 | |
We were invited to go down | 12:50 | |
to Orlando, Florida | 12:53 | |
for a general COSROW meeting, | 12:54 | |
and that was kind of the first time | 12:57 | |
I realized, oh, there's something | 12:58 | |
larger than the Minnesota COSROW. | 13:00 | |
We couldn't figure out why we were there | 13:04 | |
because we were the only | 13:06 | |
Conference COSROW | 13:08 | |
that was represented there. | 13:10 | |
So we thought, well, | 13:13 | |
this is a new thing. | 13:14 | |
I think it was because | 13:19 | |
they kind of heard about some | 13:22 | |
of the things that we were doing | 13:25 | |
in COSROW in Minnesota, | 13:26 | |
so they invited us down. | 13:27 | |
That was my entrée | 13:34 | |
into General COSROW at that point. | 13:36 | |
- | That is interesting. | 13:42 |
I have to ask how did your pastor | 13:44 | |
respond to the pink slips | 13:45 | |
in the conversation? | 13:47 | |
- | Pink slips, you know, | 13:48 |
he was the one who | 13:50 | |
had encouraged me | 13:53 | |
to start up the COSROW, | 13:55 | |
so he knew kind of what | 13:56 | |
we were all about. | 13:58 | |
We did tell him, | 13:59 | |
okay, now, we have this | 14:01 | |
idea of the pink slips | 14:03 | |
that we'd like to give to you, | 14:05 | |
or other speakers, | 14:06 | |
and he was fine with it. | 14:08 | |
He was okay with it. | 14:10 | |
- | Did you | 14:12 |
help to develop other | 14:14 | |
resources, or worship, | 14:17 | |
or how did that work, | 14:19 | |
or was it mostly noticing that | 14:20 | |
the language was all masculine? | 14:22 | |
- | Oh, yeah. | 14:25 |
We provided seed money | 14:27 | |
to Kay Schroder-Hacklander | 14:29 | |
in order to do Images of God. | 14:32 | |
- | Yes. | 14:34 |
- | The musical. | 14:36 |
- | Yeah. | 14:37 |
- | What a talent she is. | 14:38 |
- | Yes. | 14:41 |
- | Of course, a year ago | 14:42 |
she and a lot of the original | 14:46 | |
dancers, and singers from the original | 14:49 | |
it was a DVD, I guess at that point, | 14:54 | |
and a booklet out | 14:57 | |
Image to God. | 14:59 | |
That was developed from seed money | 15:04 | |
that COSROW had put together. | 15:06 | |
- | Now I've heard about the musical, | 15:09 |
but I've seen the booklet. | 15:11 | |
Where was the musical performed? | 15:13 | |
- | It was performed at Prospect Park | 15:15 |
United Methodist Church. | 15:18 | |
- | Okay. | 15:19 |
- | That's where it was videoed also. | 15:20 |
- | Okay. | 15:22 |
Then was video distributed, | 15:24 | |
or was that the idea? | 15:26 | |
- | Oh my goodness, let me think here. | 15:28 |
The book was, you know, distributed. | 15:36 | |
I think we charged a dollar for that. | 15:38 | |
The video itself there are | 15:41 | |
various videos around. | 15:43 | |
We must have sold them, | 15:48 | |
or gave them away. | 15:49 | |
I don't know that we had the budget | 15:52 | |
to give them away, | 15:53 | |
but we must have sold them because | 15:54 | |
several people got copies of the DVD. | 15:57 | |
- | That is great. | 16:01 |
- | Yeah, yeah, yeah. | 16:03 |
- | Oh, this is really helpful. | 16:05 |
This is really interesting, | 16:07 | |
and you have stayed involved in COSROW. | 16:08 | |
- | I have, yeah, I have. | 16:10 |
It's been kind of off and on | 16:14 | |
because like, you know, all through this | 16:18 | |
I had a full-time job, | 16:19 | |
and, also, | 16:22 | |
I was working on a Master's degree | 16:26 | |
in the earlier years, | 16:29 | |
so I'd go to school at night, | 16:31 | |
then I'd work during the day. | 16:33 | |
At various points | 16:36 | |
I had pulled out of COSROW | 16:39 | |
and other COSROW members, you know, | 16:41 | |
came to rescue me, you know, | 16:46 | |
so that I could pull out, | 16:49 | |
and spend more time | 16:50 | |
on work, and family, | 16:53 | |
and going to school. | 16:56 | |
Then I get back in, | 16:58 | |
so it's been kind of like | 17:00 | |
time in and time out, | 17:03 | |
and that sort of thing, | 17:05 | |
well, since, you know, 1978, | 17:09 | |
or a little earlier. | 17:12 | |
- | I'm sorry to interrupt, Faye. | 17:17 |
What kind of full-time work did you do? | 17:18 | |
- | I started out as an art teacher, | 17:24 |
but then we moved to the Twin Cities. | 17:26 | |
I started working in a nursing home | 17:32 | |
as an activity director, | 17:35 | |
therapy director, recreation director, | 17:38 | |
and then as a social worker. | 17:41 | |
I then became the | 17:48 | |
activity social service director | 17:51 | |
of four nursing homes, | 17:53 | |
and oversaw the various people. | 17:55 | |
Then I | 18:00 | |
came up career wise | 18:03 | |
with a huge discrimination issue | 18:05 | |
because | 18:10 | |
I went to | 18:12 | |
graduate school got my license | 18:15 | |
to be a nursing home administrator, | 18:19 | |
and the owner of the four nursing homes | 18:21 | |
said with a bang on the table, he said, | 18:24 | |
"I will never hire | 18:26 | |
"a woman administrator, | 18:27 | |
"so get the stupid idea | 18:29 | |
"out of your head. | 18:30 | |
"I have much bigger things | 18:32 | |
"for you in mind." | 18:33 | |
- | Oh, Faye. | 18:34 |
- | His words. | 18:35 |
- | Wow. | 18:36 |
- | That was in 1979. | 18:37 |
I was absolutely devastated | 18:43 | |
because I had nine years | 18:45 | |
in that company, | 18:47 | |
wrote all of the procedures, | 18:49 | |
worked with the health department, | 18:52 | |
worked with, you know, | 18:54 | |
countless staff, | 18:56 | |
the board administrators. | 18:58 | |
You know then when I did get | 19:02 | |
my administrator's license | 19:04 | |
then I was sent into | 19:06 | |
one of the four nursing homes | 19:08 | |
that maybe their administrator | 19:10 | |
was sick for a few days, | 19:12 | |
or out on vacation, or whatever, | 19:14 | |
so then I became the acting administrator, | 19:16 | |
but I knew I could never | 19:18 | |
be the administrator | 19:19 | |
because of what he had said. | 19:21 | |
So, anyway, | 19:24 | |
that very day | 19:27 | |
that he said that | 19:30 | |
with a bang on the table | 19:32 | |
I was just devastated. | 19:36 | |
First of all I went to my car, | 19:40 | |
and I was crying, and two nurses | 19:42 | |
that I worked with knocked on the window | 19:44 | |
said, "What's wrong, what happened?" | 19:46 | |
That was kind of them | 19:52 | |
to be so concerned, | 19:54 | |
so I told them, and they said, | 19:56 | |
"Oh, that's just him. | 19:58 | |
"Don't worry about it. | 19:59 | |
"He'll come around." | 20:00 | |
Well, I got home, | 20:02 | |
and here was a letter from my sister | 20:03 | |
who worked at | 20:06 | |
one of the other state-operated | 20:09 | |
nursing homes Ah Gwah Ching, | 20:10 | |
and she was the business manager there. | 20:12 | |
Her letter said, | 20:15 | |
I don't know if you're interested | 20:17 | |
in the state because I know | 20:19 | |
you're really happy where you are, | 20:21 | |
but, in case, you're interested | 20:23 | |
there is an opening | 20:25 | |
for an assistant administrator | 20:27 | |
at Oak Terrace in Minnetonka. | 20:29 | |
She said, in case, you are interested, | 20:33 | |
here is the application, | 20:37 | |
and here's some words | 20:38 | |
that maybe would be helpful | 20:40 | |
that they look for in applications. | 20:43 | |
- | Incredible. | 20:46 |
- | I know, I look back and think, | 20:48 |
now there's a God moment right there. | 20:51 | |
- | Yes, oh my goodness. | 20:53 |
- | So I filled it out that night, | 20:55 |
sent it in, and then I didn't hear for | 20:57 | |
it seemed like a long time. | 21:02 | |
Then I was called | 21:09 | |
into the owner's office, again, | 21:10 | |
of the four nursing homes. | 21:12 | |
He said, "Well, Tom is going to | 21:16 | |
"take a job someplace else, | 21:17 | |
"and he is the administrator." | 21:19 | |
Was it Tom, or one of the others, | 21:23 | |
of Regency Manor. | 21:25 | |
He said, "I know you have your license." | 21:28 | |
He said, "I'll try you out as | 21:32 | |
"administrator if you'd like that job, | 21:34 | |
"but there's no guarantee." | 21:37 | |
I said, absolutely, you know, | 21:40 | |
I hadn't heard from the state, | 21:42 | |
so, okay, absolutely, | 21:43 | |
I'd like to take Regency as administrator. | 21:46 | |
He said, "You know how | 21:50 | |
"I feel about women." | 21:51 | |
Yes, I do know. | 21:53 | |
Anyway then, okay, | 21:57 | |
you can start on such and such a date. | 21:58 | |
Well, then, I get a call from | 22:03 | |
they have a first interview | 22:07 | |
with the state, | 22:08 | |
so I gladly went in, | 22:10 | |
and thought it went well, | 22:11 | |
but, you know, the state is notorious | 22:14 | |
for being slow at hiring. | 22:18 | |
They want to make sure | 22:21 | |
all the ducks are in order, | 22:22 | |
and that they hire the right person, | 22:24 | |
and that's all well and good. | 22:26 | |
I was used to a private sector | 22:28 | |
nursing home. | 22:30 | |
Okay, you have a vacancy. | 22:32 | |
You put an add in the paper. | 22:33 | |
The next day you interview people. | 22:35 | |
On the third day they're onboard. | 22:38 | |
Well, okay, here's the state. | 22:42 | |
I interview in the fall, | 22:50 | |
and then they said, | 22:57 | |
"With the second interview | 23:01 | |
"we need to make sure | 23:04 | |
"your references check out." | 23:05 | |
Oh, fine, so I put down one of my | 23:06 | |
colleagues who I worked with | 23:08 | |
as a reference. | 23:10 | |
She was very well-known | 23:13 | |
in the long-term care community | 23:15 | |
because she would sign off at all of the | 23:18 | |
licenses for your single | 23:23 | |
administrators in the state. | 23:24 | |
She was I don't know secretary | 23:26 | |
of the group the nursing home | 23:33 | |
long-term care administrators. | 23:36 | |
She was very well-known. | 23:39 | |
Anyway, the personnel director | 23:41 | |
called her number. | 23:44 | |
The | 23:49 | |
son-in-law of the owner | 23:50 | |
answered her phone, | 23:52 | |
so the personnel, | 23:56 | |
they're called personnel directors now, | 23:58 | |
they check, | 23:59 | |
but | 24:01 | |
she said, you know, | 24:03 | |
"Is Norma Olson there?" | 24:05 | |
He said, "No, she's off sick today, | 24:06 | |
"but maybe I can help you." | 24:07 | |
Then the personnel director comes on, | 24:09 | |
and says, "We're checking the references | 24:11 | |
"of Faye Christensen because | 24:14 | |
"she has applied to be | 24:18 | |
"the assistant administrator | 24:21 | |
"of Oak Terrace Nursing Home." | 24:23 | |
He immediately said, | 24:25 | |
"Oh, there's a mistake. | 24:26 | |
"She's going to be the administrator | 24:27 | |
"of Regency Manor Nursing Home | 24:29 | |
"in a couple of weeks, | 24:32 | |
"so you're mistaken about this." | 24:33 | |
Then their personnel director thought, | 24:37 | |
"Oh, my gosh, what did I do here?" | 24:40 | |
So she quickly ended the conversation. | 24:42 | |
Now I was at one of the other | 24:46 | |
four nursing homes, | 24:47 | |
and I get a call from Allan, | 24:48 | |
the son-in-law of the owner, | 24:50 | |
and he said, "What's going on here? | 24:54 | |
"I got a call from the state," | 24:56 | |
and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, | 24:57 | |
so I said, yes, that is correct. | 25:01 | |
You got that right, I said, | 25:05 | |
you problem don't even know | 25:07 | |
what happened several months ago, | 25:08 | |
and that was that your father-in-law | 25:10 | |
said that he would never | 25:13 | |
hire a woman administrator. | 25:15 | |
I said, I saw the writing on the wall | 25:17 | |
right then that I was not going | 25:19 | |
to be able to stay with the facilitates. | 25:21 | |
So then I tendered my resignation | 25:27 | |
the next day, | 25:30 | |
and was offered | 25:32 | |
$1,000 if I stayed. | 25:34 | |
Now that is a huge amount of money | 25:36 | |
back in 1980, | 25:39 | |
huge, $1,000, | 25:40 | |
but in half of that the State | 25:43 | |
was offering me twice what I was making | 25:45 | |
would write a check. | 25:49 | |
So I gave my notice and I left, | 25:53 | |
and was the Assistant Administrator | 25:55 | |
for several years, | 25:58 | |
and then became the Administrator, | 25:59 | |
then became the Administrator | 26:05 | |
of Ah Gwah Ching, in addition, | 26:07 | |
to Woodhaven in Brainerd. | 26:09 | |
That's how we ended up in Brainerd. | 26:11 | |
The state moved our family to Brainerd | 26:13 | |
to be the Administrator of Woodhaven. | 26:17 | |
Then I was asked to also | 26:20 | |
take Ah Gwah Ching. | 26:21 | |
- | To take on, sorry, what is it? | 26:23 |
- | Oh, take Ah Gwah Ching. | 26:24 |
Ah Gwah Ching is an Indian term, | 26:28 | |
but it was one of the two largest | 26:30 | |
state nursing homes in Minnesota. | 26:33 | |
Both Oak Terrace and Ah Gwah Ching | 26:36 | |
are no longer | 26:40 | |
state-operated nursing homes. | 26:41 | |
In fact, they're both turned off | 26:43 | |
because the state did not want to be | 26:45 | |
directly in health care | 26:49 | |
as they had been. | 26:50 | |
- | I see. | 26:51 |
Well, Faye, that is quite a story. | 26:53 | |
- | Yeah, right, yeah. | 26:56 |
So, you know, my feminism | 26:59 | |
grew out of that experience as well | 27:01 | |
as with church, of course. | 27:03 | |
It's all integrated into | 27:06 | |
who I am in my (mumbles) | 27:10 | |
and my optimal time, | 27:11 | |
life and church and women and feminism, | 27:14 | |
and the whole thing. | 27:16 | |
- | Of course, yeah. | 27:18 |
Well, that is great. | 27:20 | |
Could you talk some | 27:22 | |
about your relationship | 27:23 | |
to the Reimagining community? | 27:25 | |
How did you first get involved? | 27:27 | |
- | Yeah, right, yeah. | 27:28 |
I had been working | 27:33 | |
with Minnesota COSROW. | 27:34 | |
I'm not sure if at that point | 27:36 | |
if I was chair, or co-chair, | 27:37 | |
or a member, | 27:39 | |
but this is in the latter '80's | 27:41 | |
I learned of the Reimagining movement, | 27:43 | |
and that they were planning | 27:48 | |
an event for 1993 | 27:49 | |
to explore the many and varied | 27:52 | |
images of God, | 27:54 | |
and that it was such a miracle, | 27:59 | |
and it involved, | 28:01 | |
you know, there's so many | 28:03 | |
days and traditions, | 28:04 | |
and all of that was so appealing | 28:06 | |
to the COSROW group. | 28:07 | |
In fact, you know, | 28:11 | |
I think I saw it as one | 28:13 | |
of the most exciting | 28:14 | |
basic, standing things | 28:17 | |
that I could imagine | 28:19 | |
happening within the church. | 28:20 | |
Anyway, we were asked to suggest | 28:24 | |
a woman who might be interested | 28:26 | |
in being part of a planning team. | 28:28 | |
We lifted up Merilee Stephian | 28:30 | |
who was very interested in that. | 28:32 | |
She attended the meetings, | 28:35 | |
and brought back information | 28:37 | |
to the COSROW members. | 28:39 | |
I wasn't able to attend the 1993 | 28:48 | |
event | 28:53 | |
because we still had | 28:57 | |
our house in Minnetonka | 28:58 | |
as well as our house here, | 29:00 | |
and I just couldn't afford, you know, | 29:02 | |
the registration | 29:07 | |
because of two huge house payments. | 29:11 | |
I was the sole breadwinner | 29:14 | |
at that point | 29:15 | |
because Russ left his job | 29:17 | |
when we moved to Brainerd. | 29:20 | |
In certain respects, I think, | 29:25 | |
I missed out on the Woodstock | 29:27 | |
of my generation because of that, | 29:29 | |
but then I attended several others | 29:37 | |
between '93 and 2003. | 29:39 | |
Then right toward the very end | 29:45 | |
that must have been 2002 | 29:48 | |
became my formal involvement | 29:51 | |
with the Reimagining board, | 29:53 | |
and that was because Betty Lundeen | 29:55 | |
who was on the board | 29:58 | |
was planning to step down, | 29:59 | |
and she presented my name | 30:00 | |
to the group as a possible replacement. | 30:03 | |
Now at that point the group | 30:07 | |
was in the process of disbanding | 30:08 | |
after 10 years, | 30:11 | |
so I was able to attend | 30:14 | |
only two board meetings | 30:16 | |
before it was disbanded. | 30:17 | |
I understood that the reason was that | 30:22 | |
there were other feminist groups | 30:29 | |
that were kind of rising up, | 30:31 | |
and that it no longer was | 30:34 | |
essential or necessary. | 30:38 | |
I think that's | 30:42 | |
why it was disband. | 30:44 | |
- | Faye, I know it's been a long time, | 30:46 |
but are there moments that | 30:49 | |
where you remember from | 30:51 | |
the gatherings that you attended? | 30:53 | |
- | Wow, oh, the presenters were | 30:56 |
absolutely mind-blowing. | 30:59 | |
Every Reimagining group that I went to | 31:09 | |
the presenters were so well-chosen. | 31:12 | |
Let me see, (mumbles) | 31:17 | |
- | Mary Bednarowski. | 31:22 |
- | Yes, yes, yes, that's the one. | 31:23 |
Correct, yeah. | 31:25 | |
Yeah, and who was it, Mary Daley. | 31:26 | |
- | Yes. | 31:30 |
- | Oh, my goodness, | 31:33 |
and what was her name the third wave? | 31:34 | |
- | Rebecca Walker? | 31:38 |
- | Yes, yes, yes, yes, right. | 31:41 |
Just the creativity working with | 31:44 | |
clay or peat, and discussions, | 31:47 | |
hand movements with each other, | 31:53 | |
just beautiful music, you know, | 31:57 | |
in the background, in the foreground, | 31:59 | |
and the imagery that was on the walls. | 32:00 | |
It just gives me chills | 32:06 | |
thinking back on this. | 32:07 | |
Just such | 32:10 | |
a beautiful way, you know, | 32:12 | |
people put that together. | 32:14 | |
I was not on the planning, | 32:15 | |
or any of the construction, | 32:18 | |
or music, or anything like that, | 32:20 | |
but I was just blown away | 32:22 | |
each time I went. | 32:24 | |
It's such an amazing event | 32:25 | |
that was taking place. | 32:28 | |
It took my breath away to be part of it. | 32:34 | |
- | Oh, that's wonderful. | 32:36 |
Now, Faye, I assume you were aware | 32:38 | |
of the backlash after the '93 conference? | 32:41 | |
- | Oh, my gosh, yes, indeed, I was. | 32:44 |
- | Did it affect you directly? | 32:48 |
- | Oh, it shook me up. | 32:50 |
I felt terribly sorry for the women | 32:52 | |
who lost their jobs and their friends | 32:55 | |
because of this backlash. | 32:58 | |
Also very disappointed | 33:02 | |
with the mainline churches | 33:04 | |
including the United Methodist Church | 33:05 | |
for being so narrow-minded. | 33:07 | |
I couldn't believe it. | 33:10 | |
- | So you were surprised at the backlash? | 33:12 |
- | I was, I was, yeah, right. | 33:15 |
Yeah, | 33:18 | |
because it was so positive in my mind, | 33:19 | |
the whole thing, | 33:23 | |
but you know, | 33:27 | |
even with all the negativity | 33:29 | |
about the backlash | 33:31 | |
it helped me realize that | 33:32 | |
not everyone was on the same page | 33:36 | |
as I was because | 33:37 | |
more education was needed. | 33:39 | |
You know, it's for people | 33:42 | |
to understand why | 33:44 | |
expanding language as it's called. | 33:46 | |
It was called inclusive language | 33:48 | |
at that time | 33:49 | |
is so very important | 33:51 | |
to our faith development. | 33:54 | |
- | That's an important part | 33:57 |
of what COSROW does, correct? | 33:58 | |
- | Yes, yes, indeed, yeah, right. | 34:01 |
I would think this probably came out of | 34:06 | |
probably out of the backlash and my | 34:12 | |
being very shook up by this whole thing. | 34:16 | |
Then realizing, okay, | 34:22 | |
not everyone understands, | 34:24 | |
or welcomes feminist theology, | 34:26 | |
so we need to | 34:29 | |
bring those people in also. | 34:31 | |
So I became a certified lay speaker | 34:34 | |
for the Minnesota Annual Conference. | 34:37 | |
This was in 1998, I believe. | 34:40 | |
It's my own | 34:47 | |
understanding. | 34:50 | |
I utilized inclusive calls to worship, | 34:52 | |
and litanies in the pulpit | 34:56 | |
and I still do. | 34:59 | |
We start out each worship service | 35:00 | |
with peace to you and grace from | 35:02 | |
our creator, redeemer, and sustainer. | 35:04 | |
Make sure that the doxology is inclusive. | 35:08 | |
Not all are, of course, | 35:13 | |
but there are a couple that are. | 35:15 | |
Then I got into conducting workshops | 35:18 | |
for lay speakers | 35:22 | |
on the topic of inclusive | 35:26 | |
expanding language. | 35:28 | |
Sometimes, just, you know, | 35:31 | |
maybe a half hour speech, | 35:33 | |
or, sometimes, an all-day workshop | 35:35 | |
that sort of thing. | 35:37 | |
I knew what was important | 35:39 | |
to lay speakers. | 35:43 | |
They work hard on their | 35:48 | |
sermons and their messages, | 35:50 | |
and they want them to be heard. | 35:51 | |
In conducting the workshops | 35:57 | |
for lay speakers | 36:00 | |
I like to use an analogy | 36:02 | |
that seems to resonate with them. | 36:08 | |
It's an analogy of a window. | 36:12 | |
You look outside and you see the trees, | 36:16 | |
and flowers, and then maybe a squirrel, | 36:18 | |
or two running about. | 36:20 | |
You don't think about the window itself | 36:21 | |
unless it's dirty or broken, | 36:23 | |
and it maybe has paint dripped on it, | 36:26 | |
or something, | 36:28 | |
and those sorts of things | 36:30 | |
keep your mind from looking outside | 36:32 | |
if you're looking at the window instead. | 36:35 | |
So what do you do? | 36:38 | |
You need to get out the Windex, | 36:39 | |
clean it up, | 36:41 | |
or replace and reglaze the window, | 36:42 | |
or scrape off the paint, or whatever, | 36:44 | |
because you don't want the window | 36:47 | |
to distract from the view. | 36:49 | |
It's the same thing with our sermons. | 36:53 | |
You want the message to get across | 36:56 | |
to the congregation. | 36:58 | |
The message is the view. | 37:00 | |
The dirt, the crack, the paint, | 37:03 | |
whatever, on the window | 37:05 | |
those are your words, | 37:07 | |
so they can distract from your message, | 37:09 | |
and if you want your sermon or message | 37:12 | |
to resonate with the congregation | 37:15 | |
it's important | 37:18 | |
that you pay attention to the language | 37:21 | |
you use about God because | 37:23 | |
it may distract | 37:27 | |
rather than enhance your message. | 37:28 | |
- | That's a great image. | 37:31 |
- | Yeah, it seems to help lay speakers. | 37:32 |
- | Yeah, what is the reaction | 37:36 |
you usually get, Faye? | 37:37 | |
- | Yeah, | 37:39 |
you know, positive, | 37:41 | |
positive with that, | 37:42 | |
yeah, with that analogy | 37:44 | |
because being a lay speaker, | 37:46 | |
I do know the importance | 37:47 | |
that people place on, you know, | 37:50 | |
how do I get my message across? | 37:53 | |
What do I say? What do I do? | 37:55 | |
What scripture should I use? | 37:56 | |
You know, I want it to be | 37:58 | |
relevant to this the time and place, | 38:00 | |
and so on. | 38:03 | |
Well, here's a big thing | 38:05 | |
that's relevant | 38:06 | |
that's the language we use. | 38:07 | |
It has been accepted | 38:12 | |
pretty much this little analogy | 38:15 | |
that I do with a window. | 38:16 | |
One of these days | 38:19 | |
I might bring a window along | 38:20 | |
have a visual here. | 38:24 | |
- | Well, Faye, I'm curious. | 38:28 |
Do you give them examples, | 38:29 | |
or resources for language? | 38:30 | |
- | Oh, yeah, we usually have that, | 38:33 |
you know, when we do that advanced | 38:36 | |
lay speaking course | 38:38 | |
we have a table filled with resources | 38:40 | |
about inclusive language. | 38:45 | |
In fact, | 38:49 | |
for each participant, | 38:51 | |
and we did two advanced | 38:55 | |
lay speaking courses. | 38:57 | |
One was in Stewartville, | 39:01 | |
and the other in Brainerd. | 39:03 | |
- | I saw these were very recent, right? | 39:05 |
You're still doing this? | 39:07 | |
- | Yeah, they were, yes. | 39:08 |
The spring and a year ago in the fall. | 39:09 | |
It was because of the | 39:14 | |
pre-talk class | 39:17 | |
that Sharon and I did. | 39:20 | |
We did the day before | 39:22 | |
our Annual Conference, | 39:23 | |
and it was on inclusive language, | 39:25 | |
so then | 39:27 | |
Robert Putter and Jane Stone from | 39:30 | |
he's a lay leader of the conference, | 39:34 | |
and she's with the lay speakers. | 39:37 | |
They asked if COSROW could | 39:40 | |
do a couple of them. | 39:42 | |
One in the south part of Minnesota, | 39:45 | |
and one in the northern part. | 39:48 | |
I said enthusiastically yes | 39:52 | |
before I even knew | 39:54 | |
if we could do it or not, | 39:55 | |
but I can, absolutely, we will. | 39:56 | |
So, yep, call it a night, I did that. | 39:58 | |
We gave each participant the book | 40:05 | |
by David Weiss, W-E-I-S-S | 40:09 | |
When God Was a Little Girl. | 40:14 | |
We read it through | 40:18 | |
in two different voices, | 40:20 | |
and then gave each participant a copy | 40:22 | |
of that, courtesy of COSROW. | 40:24 | |
In fact, he's going to be talking | 40:28 | |
about the book in our fall meeting | 40:29 | |
in Peace United Methodist. | 40:31 | |
- | Great. | 40:33 |
- | Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. | 40:34 |
So, yeah, there are a lot of resources. | 40:38 | |
So many of them we found | 40:41 | |
came out of the '80's and early '90's. | 40:43 | |
There are a few things that are | 40:48 | |
you know, written now | 40:51 | |
such as General COSROW's | 40:52 | |
God of the Bible, | 40:54 | |
which is free | 40:57 | |
to download for people. | 40:59 | |
- | Yes. | 41:02 |
- | There are a couple of others, | 41:07 |
but it seems that a lot | 41:08 | |
of really good stuff | 41:09 | |
came out of the '80's, and the '90's. | 41:11 | |
- | Why do you think that is, Faye? | 41:13 |
Do you have a theory on that? | 41:15 | |
- | Oh, my goodness, why would that be? | 41:17 |
I think because in the beginning | 41:19 | |
just speculating, | 41:22 | |
that's when the women's movement | 41:25 | |
was really coming about. | 41:27 | |
The aftermath of the Civil Rights Movement | 41:33 | |
then to women's movement. | 41:34 | |
That's when | 41:36 | |
everybody was talking about it | 41:39 | |
consciousness became raised | 41:43 | |
in new different ways. | 41:46 | |
I think, we haven't seen so much | 41:53 | |
about that now lately | 41:55 | |
because of maybe apathy. | 41:58 | |
I noticed with young women that often, | 42:04 | |
they're not onboard with feminism | 42:09 | |
because they see it | 42:11 | |
as kind of an old issue, | 42:13 | |
you know, been there, done that. | 42:15 | |
Thanks for all the work you did, | 42:18 | |
but now I know I can be anything. | 42:20 | |
I can be a veterinarian, or a doctor. | 42:22 | |
I can do anything I want, | 42:24 | |
or president, you know. | 42:26 | |
Why would we | 42:31 | |
need to beat that drum anymore? | 42:33 | |
- | What's your reaction to that, Faye? | 42:36 |
- | Oh, my gosh, we're not there yet. | 42:38 |
We have so much more to do | 42:43 | |
both in the church and in the workplace | 42:46 | |
because now things | 42:49 | |
are becoming more subtle. | 42:51 | |
I still see managers | 42:56 | |
who hire people who look like them. | 42:59 | |
Dress like them, act like them, | 43:03 | |
think like them, | 43:05 | |
and that may not include women. | 43:06 | |
Yet women have such a valuable role | 43:10 | |
in the workplace, | 43:12 | |
but I still see men doing that, | 43:17 | |
and they're not even aware of it often. | 43:19 | |
- | I'm curious, Faye, | 43:22 |
you've been attentive to these issues | 43:23 | |
for decades in the church. | 43:25 | |
How did you evaluate where we are | 43:27 | |
in the church today? | 43:29 | |
Maybe, specifically, the United Methodists, | 43:31 | |
however you want to answer that? | 43:33 | |
- | Oh, wow, well, I was a delegate | 43:37 |
to the General Conference. | 43:38 | |
Two of us from Minnesota that were. | 43:41 | |
Honestly, I think, | 43:48 | |
I have to say that I think | 43:52 | |
we're going backwards, | 43:54 | |
and that distresses me a lot. | 43:56 | |
The General Conference this year | 44:01 | |
was very conservative. | 44:04 | |
Can you imagine they pulled out of RCRC? | 44:07 | |
I could not believe that. | 44:10 | |
That is such an important thing | 44:13 | |
for women all over the world. | 44:15 | |
It's, | 44:21 | |
oh dear, it's distressing. | 44:22 | |
One of the groups | 44:29 | |
four years ago in Tampa | 44:32 | |
they wanted to | 44:37 | |
put COSROW and CORR | 44:40 | |
into | 44:42 | |
what do they call it? | 44:44 | |
Monastery group, or (mumbles) group, | 44:47 | |
or whatever, | 44:50 | |
Essentially, it would take the power | 44:53 | |
away from both of those groups. | 44:55 | |
Luckily, that did not pass then. | 44:59 | |
- | I'm sorry, when you say | 45:01 |
this is important, | 45:03 | |
when you say a group | 45:04 | |
what kind of group do you mean? | 45:05 | |
- | The conservatives wanted to put | 45:09 |
COSROW and CORR within, | 45:11 | |
I wish I could think | 45:15 | |
of the name of the group. | 45:16 | |
- | So it was conservative. | 45:19 |
I mean, it was just | 45:21 | |
sort of a conservative group. | 45:22 | |
- | Yes, very conservative move, | 45:23 |
absolutely. | 45:25 | |
- | What is CORR, I'm sorry? | 45:26 |
- | CORR is Commission on Religion and Race. | 45:29 |
- | Okay, right, thank you. | 45:33 |
- | CORR and COSROW were developed | 45:36 |
pretty much at the same time | 45:38 | |
1972, | 45:43 | |
I think, | 45:45 | |
at that General Conference. | 45:47 | |
Coming out of both Civil Rights, | 45:52 | |
and the women's movement | 45:53 | |
the General Conference | 45:57 | |
saw that there was a need for both | 45:59 | |
of those groups to monitor | 46:02 | |
such really forward changing, I think. | 46:06 | |
To monitor the structure of a church | 46:09 | |
in both racism, sexism, and so on, | 46:15 | |
to keep us doing the right thing. | 46:22 | |
CORR and COSROW were the two | 46:26 | |
monitoring groups. | 46:29 | |
It was set up so that we could | 46:31 | |
go into any part | 46:33 | |
of the structure of a church, | 46:34 | |
and call them out on something | 46:36 | |
whatever it would be. | 46:39 | |
So putting the two groups under | 46:43 | |
another authority | 46:47 | |
would decrease that monitoring | 46:50 | |
program because you can't monitor | 46:54 | |
a structure in which | 46:57 | |
you are a part of it. | 46:59 | |
- | Yeah, right. | 47:00 |
- | You know? | 47:01 |
- | Yes. | 47:02 |
- | Just like, you know, | 47:03 |
a business does not | 47:04 | |
hire auditors that are | 47:05 | |
in their business department. | 47:07 | |
- | Right, no, that makes sense. | 47:08 |
- | It just doesn't work. | 47:10 |
Having that conservative moment | 47:17 | |
within the United Methodist Church | 47:20 | |
that's distressing. | 47:22 | |
- | Related to this how do you account | 47:24 |
for the backlash against Reimagining? | 47:26 | |
- | Wow. | 47:30 |
Oh, my goodness. | 47:32 | |
I think, it was fear. | 47:33 | |
Fear generated, you know, we're looking | 47:37 | |
at new ways of thinking about God, | 47:41 | |
and humankind, but it's basically God. | 47:45 | |
That's the threat for some people | 47:48 | |
because they have to think beyond | 47:53 | |
the Sunday School image, | 47:57 | |
third grade Sunday School image | 47:58 | |
that they maybe have had | 48:00 | |
all their lives. | 48:01 | |
I think it was seen as a threat | 48:10 | |
rather than as an enhancement | 48:12 | |
to their faith. | 48:14 | |
That was really a shame in my mind | 48:17 | |
that | 48:20 | |
people weren't open to new ways | 48:23 | |
of thinking about God. | 48:25 | |
God is not he or she. | 48:31 | |
God is way beyond that, | 48:33 | |
and to want to keep a little he image | 48:36 | |
a male image | 48:39 | |
of God just seems to restrict | 48:41 | |
a person's | 48:44 | |
peace development in my mind. | 48:46 | |
It probably is easier if you keep | 48:53 | |
your third grade Sunday School | 48:55 | |
thinking about God, you know, then | 48:57 | |
you don't have to spend a lot of time | 49:01 | |
developing your own faith, you know, | 49:03 | |
I mean, that's the foundation, | 49:05 | |
and that's where I'm gonna stay, | 49:07 | |
so I think it was based | 49:10 | |
on that actually, | 49:11 | |
you're a threat. | 49:15 | |
- | You know, Faye when we're talking | 49:17 |
about backlash it occurs to me | 49:18 | |
as you know, Good News was responsible | 49:20 | |
had published a great deal | 49:24 | |
about Reimagining. | 49:25 | |
That was part of the backlash. | 49:26 | |
I'm curious, does Good News | 49:27 | |
often attack COSROW? | 49:29 | |
- | You know, | 49:34 |
I've been receiving | 49:35 | |
their publications for several years. | 49:37 | |
The first one I received, you know, | 49:45 | |
I thought, oh, I can't stand this stuff. | 49:47 | |
I'm gonna throw it away, | 49:50 | |
or I'm gonna tell them | 49:51 | |
don't send me anymore, | 49:52 | |
and then I thought it over, | 49:53 | |
and I thought, | 49:54 | |
no, I want to know | 49:55 | |
what they're thinking, | 49:57 | |
so I do get their publications. | 49:59 | |
I haven't seen | 50:03 | |
much at all about COSROW. | 50:04 | |
They're attacking bishops, | 50:07 | |
it seems, you know. | 50:10 | |
Sally Dyck is a prime target, | 50:11 | |
and, of course, (mumbles) | 50:15 | |
you know, are prime targets, | 50:17 | |
and, oh, Melvin Talbert. | 50:19 | |
He's been in their | 50:21 | |
crosshairs for a long time | 50:24 | |
because he's so outspoken, | 50:27 | |
and he's just an amazing bishop, | 50:29 | |
but, you know, there are others, too, | 50:32 | |
and they keep adding to the list. | 50:34 | |
They're gonna have several to add to | 50:37 | |
the bishops that we elected last month | 50:41 | |
in Jurisdictional Conference. | 50:44 | |
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting. | 50:49 | |
I read an article yesterday | 50:52 | |
it was in the UMC News. | 50:56 | |
It said that there's a new group | 51:04 | |
that's coming up among the conservative | 51:06 | |
lines, and it's called, I think, | 51:08 | |
The Wesleyan Covenant. | 51:10 | |
You may be aware of that. | 51:14 | |
- | I don't know much about it, no. | 51:16 |
- | Yeah, I think they started | 51:17 |
last October, | 51:19 | |
but the line that caught my attention | 51:21 | |
in that article | 51:25 | |
was they said they almost | 51:27 | |
defunct Good News | 51:30 | |
and Confessing Movement. | 51:33 | |
Now is becoming more | 51:36 | |
of the Wesleyan Covenant, | 51:38 | |
so I thought, oh, that's fascinating. | 51:40 | |
There wasn't anything more said | 51:43 | |
in the article about possible defunct, | 51:44 | |
but I do know that | 51:48 | |
what is the women's group? | 51:51 | |
- | RENEW, is that? | 51:55 |
- | RENEW, thank you. | 51:56 |
RENEW no longer has | 51:58 | |
their own publication. | 51:59 | |
They're kind of a little column | 52:01 | |
in the Confessing Movement thing. | 52:03 | |
I don't know that they have | 52:08 | |
a whole lot of strength anymore. | 52:09 | |
- | Yes, yeah. | 52:11 |
Faye, in the end how would you | 52:13 | |
define Reimagining? | 52:15 | |
- | I guess, I would define it as | 52:26 |
bold, creative, | 52:34 | |
impactful, adventurous. | 52:36 | |
Thinking outside the box. | 52:41 | |
It was part of | 52:47 | |
unstoppable feminist wave of faith, | 52:50 | |
which continues now into our future. | 52:53 | |
I think of this in many ways. | 53:02 | |
You're probably familiar | 53:05 | |
with Women of Spirituality | 53:06 | |
Mankato State University. | 53:09 | |
- | Yes. | 53:10 |
- | Gone to that many years. | 53:11 |
COSROW was part of that. | 53:15 | |
I was one of the speakers | 53:16 | |
early on with Peg Chamberlin | 53:18 | |
the Council of Churches | 53:20 | |
when they first began 30 some years ago. | 53:25 | |
Again, also, | 53:28 | |
UMC General COSROW, Minnesota COSROW | 53:31 | |
have Biblical translations, | 53:35 | |
and interpretations | 53:37 | |
that have come out. | 53:40 | |
There are a lot of resources. | 53:43 | |
I would hope that | 53:45 | |
when the website for Reimagining | 53:47 | |
is developed that | 53:50 | |
a lot of those resources | 53:51 | |
can be offered | 53:55 | |
in continuing a website of liturgies, | 54:00 | |
and prayers, and sermons, | 54:04 | |
all of those things, | 54:07 | |
and maybe as well as book reviews. | 54:08 | |
One of the questions we had was | 54:14 | |
what will you include in the website? | 54:17 | |
Yeah, I'm thinking about that | 54:20 | |
what we'll be showing. | 54:23 | |
I think it's seminars and conferences | 54:25 | |
on the topic of feminist theology | 54:27 | |
throughout the U.S. and abroad. | 54:30 | |
You know, I still have copies of | 54:34 | |
that Reimagining | 54:36 | |
what was it quarterly newsletter? | 54:38 | |
- | Yes, yes. | 54:41 |
- | Yeah, art, poetry, | 54:43 |
prose, stories. | 54:45 | |
It was marvelous. | 54:47 | |
Maybe even on the website | 54:53 | |
some of those could be resurrected | 54:54 | |
because there's some | 54:56 | |
great stuff in there. | 54:58 | |
- | Yes. | 54:59 |
- | Then stories of feminists, | 55:02 |
challenges, and experiences. | 55:06 | |
A short story | 55:11 | |
I'm having one right now a challenge. | 55:12 | |
About a week and a half ago | 55:17 | |
our pastor asked that I facilitate | 55:18 | |
worship this coming Sunday | 55:21 | |
because he's gonna be on vacation. | 55:23 | |
Fine, that's just fine, he said, | 55:25 | |
I'll send you a copy of the bulletin | 55:27 | |
on Monday, which he did. | 55:30 | |
Well, the first hymn | 55:32 | |
is This Is My Father's World. | 55:34 | |
- | Oh, goodness, yes. | 55:36 |
- | So I emailed him back, and I said, | 55:38 |
I can't sing that. | 55:41 | |
I cannot sing that song. | 55:44 | |
You have to find an inclusive hymn here | 55:45 | |
because I'm not gonna sing it. | 55:49 | |
I'm not gonna make anybody else sing it, | 55:50 | |
so he, of course, quickly changed it, | 55:53 | |
and I don't remember what it, | 55:55 | |
but it's an inclusive hymn. | 55:57 | |
Then he said, | 55:58 | |
would you mind if you and I | 56:02 | |
sat down over coffee sometime, | 56:04 | |
and we talked about inclusive language? | 56:05 | |
I said, I would really welcome that. | 56:08 | |
Please let's do it, | 56:10 | |
so we have that coming up | 56:12 | |
after his vacation. | 56:14 | |
- | Oh, that's great. | 56:16 |
- | I couldn't believe what I was seeing. | 56:20 |
This Is My Father's World. | 56:22 | |
- | Wow, that's interesting, yeah, | 56:26 |
for you when you're doing it, yes, | 56:29 | |
that's pretty amazing. | 56:31 | |
By the way, before I forget this | 56:35 | |
those are great suggestions, | 56:36 | |
and we talked about adding COSROW, | 56:38 | |
and United Methodist Women. | 56:42 | |
Do you have any other suggestions | 56:44 | |
for links either now, | 56:45 | |
or you can email them to me later, | 56:47 | |
or other resources? | 56:48 | |
- | Well, yes, but COSROW are both | 56:51 |
Minnesota, and General Commission. | 56:53 | |
- | Yes. | 56:55 |
- | Yeah, that's www.GCFRW.org. | 56:57 |
Talk with Dawn Hare, D-A-W-N. | 57:07 | |
She's the Executive Director, | 57:10 | |
and I know she'll be very interested, | 57:12 | |
and be onboard. | 57:15 | |
- | I'm sorry, what was her | 57:17 |
last name again, the last name? | 57:19 | |
- | Hare, H-A-R-E. | 57:20 |
- | Great. | 57:22 |
- | Dawn Hare. | 57:24 |
- | Great, she's the Executive Director | 57:25 |
of General Commission? | 57:27 | |
- | Of General COSROW. | 57:29 |
- | Got it, I will do that, | 57:30 |
that's great, good. | 57:32 | |
- | Also, | 57:34 |
I kind of think, | 57:38 | |
although, I am not certain of this, | 57:40 | |
but I kind of think | 57:41 | |
that United Methodist Church | 57:43 | |
is the only mainline denomination | 57:45 | |
that has this feminist branch | 57:47 | |
within the structure of it COSROW. | 57:50 | |
I know other mainline denominations | 57:53 | |
have feminist groups, women's groups, | 57:57 | |
and so on, but they're not part | 58:01 | |
of the structure of the church itself. | 58:03 | |
I talked to somebody | 58:07 | |
on General Conference, | 58:08 | |
and that's what they thought, also, | 58:09 | |
but we might be wrong. | 58:11 | |
There might be some denomination | 58:13 | |
out there that has it | 58:15 | |
within their structure. | 58:17 | |
We just don't know who they are, | 58:18 | |
but, anyway, | 58:20 | |
other ecumenical phase groups | 58:22 | |
that have similar | 58:25 | |
feminist groups such as COSROW | 58:28 | |
could be contacted. | 58:30 | |
I think the Presbyterians do, | 58:32 | |
and I believe the Lutherans do. | 58:34 | |
I like the ecumenism | 58:40 | |
that Reimagining has always had. | 58:42 | |
- | Well, Faye, before we end | 58:48 |
I did want to ask you. | 58:49 | |
When you look back on it | 58:50 | |
what aspects of Reimagining | 58:51 | |
were most significant to you and why? | 58:53 | |
- | I think probably | 59:11 |
the expanding language for God. | 59:14 | |
I think probably most people accept it. | 59:17 | |
We no longer want to say mankind. | 59:22 | |
I mean, studies have been done | 59:24 | |
that show that when you hear mankind | 59:26 | |
you don't think of men and women, | 59:28 | |
you think of men, | 59:30 | |
for, you know, men in society. | 59:33 | |
Man and religion whatever the topic is, | 59:39 | |
so, I think, | 59:44 | |
we're pretty much over that, | 59:45 | |
but images of God that's a hard one, | 59:46 | |
especially, with The Lord's Prayer. | 59:49 | |
That's kind of a hard one to change, | 59:55 | |
although, UMW | 59:58 | |
at a conference Minnesota UMW | 1:00:03 | |
the spiritual coordinator of it | 1:00:07 | |
came up to me and she said, | 1:00:10 | |
"Do you think it would be okay | 1:00:12 | |
"if we asked people to say | 1:00:13 | |
"Our God, who art in heaven?" | 1:00:16 | |
I said, absolutely, let's do it, | 1:00:18 | |
so she did, and she got called (mumbles) | 1:00:21 | |
- | She did, interesting, | 1:00:23 |
they were positive. | 1:00:25 | |
- | I think that's, you know, for me | 1:00:28 |
the use of expanding language | 1:00:32 | |
is still vital, | 1:00:34 | |
and it's still very important. | 1:00:35 | |
That's | 1:00:38 | |
one of the things that really expanded | 1:00:40 | |
my imagery of God | 1:00:43 | |
Reimagining | 1:00:45 | |
newsletters, the events. | 1:00:49 | |
Getting to know the women involved. | 1:00:51 | |
Sarah Evans, for instance, on the Board. | 1:00:56 | |
Such amazing women. | 1:01:00 | |
- | I'm curious, | 1:01:04 |
did your involvement change | 1:01:04 | |
your perspective at all | 1:01:06 | |
on feminist theology or the church? | 1:01:07 | |
- | It expanded it a lot. | 1:01:09 |
- | Expanded it in what way would you say? | 1:01:12 |
- | It's helped my faith grow in new ways. | 1:01:16 |
It kind of | 1:01:27 | |
blew the lid off any lid | 1:01:30 | |
that I may have had. | 1:01:32 | |
In my theological thinking and reading, | 1:01:36 | |
and so on, and I think it made me bolder | 1:01:40 | |
to speak out. | 1:01:46 | |
For instance, | 1:01:48 | |
I think I do pick up on | 1:01:52 | |
some of the subtleties a little quicker | 1:01:54 | |
in part because of | 1:01:59 | |
Reimagining and COSROW. | 1:02:01 | |
For instance, in Peoria, Illinois | 1:02:03 | |
three weeks ago | 1:02:08 | |
middle of July | 1:02:11 | |
there were four | 1:02:14 | |
bishops who were retiring, | 1:02:16 | |
so they had, you know, videos | 1:02:19 | |
for each of the bishops, | 1:02:22 | |
and they were very nicely done, | 1:02:23 | |
very well put together | 1:02:25 | |
that included, you know, their families, | 1:02:27 | |
the process of their ministry, | 1:02:31 | |
and that sort of thing. | 1:02:33 | |
Well, they each started out with, | 1:02:34 | |
so there's 16 (mumbles) | 1:02:37 | |
so we had Bishop John Hopkins, | 1:02:41 | |
Bishop Michael Coyner, | 1:02:44 | |
Bishop | 1:02:48 | |
Jonathan Keaton. | 1:03:00 | |
We started out that way, | 1:03:04 | |
and then we get to Bishop Deb. | 1:03:05 | |
- | No last name | 1:03:09 |
- | No last name. | 1:03:11 |
Bishop Deb | 1:03:13 | |
from Michigan. | 1:03:15 | |
I asked a couple of people | 1:03:18 | |
afterward during break | 1:03:22 | |
I said, did you check that? | 1:03:23 | |
"Checked what? | 1:03:25 | |
"I went over it. | 1:03:27 | |
"Oh no, did it really say that?" | 1:03:29 | |
Yes, it did, it did say that. | 1:03:31 | |
A lot of this is just very subtle. | 1:03:40 | |
I mean, maybe, I mean, who knows, | 1:03:42 | |
maybe Bishop Deb Kiesey, | 1:03:45 | |
you know, said, oh, I know you. | 1:03:49 | |
Maybe at the time just call me Deb. | 1:03:52 | |
I mean, who knows, but it certainly | 1:03:55 | |
didn't sit right in my mind. | 1:03:58 | |
- | Right, yeah. | 1:04:00 |
I can see why. | 1:04:03 | |
I have one last question for you. | 1:04:07 | |
This has been great. | 1:04:10 | |
What do you think is the greatest legacy | 1:04:11 | |
of the Reimagining Conference, | 1:04:13 | |
and community? | 1:04:14 | |
- | Stretching people beyond | 1:04:19 |
their comfort level. | 1:04:21 | |
- | That's great, yeah. | 1:04:26 |
Well, Faye, is there anything else | 1:04:30 | |
we haven't discussed | 1:04:32 | |
that you would like to add? | 1:04:33 | |
- | Why? We discussed more than | 1:04:35 |
what I was thinking we would. | 1:04:37 | |
That's okay, that's okay. | 1:04:39 | |
- | Good. | 1:04:41 |
- | I'm very excited about the fact | 1:04:46 |
that you're working on this, | 1:04:48 | |
and I'm very excited about the wonderful | 1:04:51 | |
possibilities of the website. | 1:04:54 | |
I think this is really needed. | 1:04:59 | |
We just need to get the word out | 1:05:01 | |
in many different ways. | 1:05:05 | |
- | Absolutely. | 1:05:07 |
- | So people can find | 1:05:08 |
the resources that they need. | 1:05:10 | |
That's gonna be | 1:05:14 | |
a great part of resurrecting | 1:05:19 | |
Reimagining, I think. | 1:05:22 | |
- | Thank you, Faye, that's wonderful. | 1:05:24 |
I'm gonna turn off the recording now. | 1:05:26 | |
- | Okay. | 1:05:28 |
Item Info
The preservation of the Duke University Libraries Digital Collections and the Duke Digital Repository programs are supported in part by the Lowell and Eileen Aptman Digital Preservation Fund