Lund, Barbara
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| - | Barbara, thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed. | 0:03 |
| If you could just say and spell your name. | 0:06 | |
| - | Barbara Lund. | 0:09 |
| B-A-R-B-A-R-A. | 0:11 | |
| L-U-N-D. | 0:13 | |
| - | Great, thank you so much. | 0:16 |
| And are you lay or clergy? | 0:17 | |
| - | Clergy. | 0:19 |
| - | And your denominational affiliation? | 0:20 |
| - | ELCA. | 0:22 |
| - | Great, thank you. | 0:24 |
| Barbara, when and where were you born? | 0:26 | |
| - | I'm from Woodville, Wisconsin, | 0:29 |
| born at the Baldwin Hospital. | 0:30 | |
| - | Oh, okay, great, and where did you go to school? | 0:33 |
| - | Baldwin-Woodville High School and then, | 0:38 |
| grade school, Woodville Middle School, | 0:41 | |
| Baldwin-Woodville High School and then Oxford College. | 0:43 | |
| And then onto some time off from further study, | 0:46 | |
| and then to Luther Seminary. | 0:52 | |
| - | Wonderful, great, Luther Seminary here in the Twin Cities? | 0:53 |
| Yes, great. | 0:57 | |
| So, what were you doing at the Time of Reimagining, 1993? | 0:58 | |
| - | Yeah, I was actually on internship, | 1:02 |
| going on internship from Luther Seminary, | 1:05 | |
| which would have been my third year of seminary. | 1:07 | |
| And that was, I was on internship in Iowa. | 1:11 | |
| - | Okay, great, good. | 1:13 |
| And what work or ministry have you done after Reimagining? | 1:15 | |
| - | Since Reimagining, I served, I continued, | 1:19 |
| I was ordained, and then served at an international | 1:23 | |
| English-speaking congregation in Tokyo, Japan. | 1:26 | |
| Tokyo Union Church, which had people from around the world, | 1:31 | |
| so English wasn't their first language, | 1:35 | |
| but it was a gathering community. | 1:37 | |
| Then I had, I worked in the countryside | 1:40 | |
| of France, in Île-aux-Moines, France, | 1:45 | |
| which was working with laypeople who didn't have clergies, | 1:47 | |
| so really working on encouraging laypeople, | 1:51 | |
| and that was through the ELCA Global Mission. | 1:54 | |
| So both of those assignments or calls | 1:56 | |
| were through the ELCA Global Mission. | 1:58 | |
| And then after France, I was within their church wide office | 2:01 | |
| in Chicago of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America | 2:06 | |
| Global Mission Unit, where I worked in both designing | 2:09 | |
| and developing global mission education events, | 2:14 | |
| for people in the US, starting to stand what was happening | 2:17 | |
| with the church relationships around the world, | 2:20 | |
| and then moved into a position which was working primarily | 2:23 | |
| in Asia as the director for Asia and the Pacific, | 2:28 | |
| which related to the ELC's historic | 2:31 | |
| relationships, and new relationships. | 2:33 | |
| - | Fascinating, wow! | 2:36 |
| And what is your role now? | 2:38 | |
| - | I direct Wisdom Ways Center for Spirituality, | 2:40 |
| which is a ecumenical inter religious ministry | 2:43 | |
| supported by the Sisters of St. Joseph. | 2:47 | |
| - | Wonderful, thank you. | 2:49 |
| I realized, I don't think I asked you when you were born. | 2:51 | |
| - | 1964. | 2:54 |
| - | Okay, great, great, good. | |
| - | And I'd love to know how and when you first | 2:58 |
| became interested in feminist theology. | 3:00 | |
| - | Yeah, well, it probably is deep within | 3:02 |
| my intuitive experience as a child, when I recognized | 3:07 | |
| I dressed up in my dad's clothing to play church. | 3:13 | |
| So something was functioning there that in my own body | 3:17 | |
| I had to do something different, | 3:20 | |
| and I'd have my friends in and then we'd play communion, | 3:21 | |
| and things like that, but, | 3:24 | |
| I had to be dressed in sort of a male presence. | 3:26 | |
| - | Interesting. | 3:31 |
| - | And I remember in, church, seeing, growing up | 3:33 |
| in a Lutheran church, my mom had a very strong role | 3:38 | |
| in women's organizations, and my parents | 3:45 | |
| were very involved in that way. | 3:48 | |
| I also found what I would delight in as a child, | 3:51 | |
| it was called Women of the, it was Women of the ELC, | 3:56 | |
| and they had quilt gatherings, and women would come | 3:59 | |
| together and make quilts, and those quilts would | 4:02 | |
| be given to what's known as Lutheran World Relief, | 4:06 | |
| so as a child, I recognized all of that. | 4:09 | |
| And those women, they put the sewing machines | 4:12 | |
| up in the basement of the church, | 4:14 | |
| and it was like a feast day for them, | 4:16 | |
| now working in the Catholic institution of feast days. | 4:18 | |
| This was a place where women could gather together | 4:21 | |
| and tell their stories, and I remember that experience of, | 4:24 | |
| oh, this is what women do. | 4:27 | |
| But also that it exposed me to the world, | 4:29 | |
| that these quilts were sent around to the world, | 4:34 | |
| and we'd hear where they would go, | 4:36 | |
| where it was in areas of conflict, areas of need, | 4:38 | |
| and it often was connected through women. | 4:42 | |
| So I think that was first and then getting to | 4:44 | |
| Oxford College, my first semester in religion class. | 4:47 | |
| Of course, required then. | 4:51 | |
| I wasn't going in as a religion major, | 4:53 | |
| but I quickly went into a religion major, | 4:55 | |
| with two key faculty there who introduced all of us. | 4:58 | |
| I mean, we were reading High-pay-tious Heritage, Her Story. | 5:02 | |
| We were reading all kinds of things, and it was just, | 5:07 | |
| thank goodness for these two female professors, | 5:11 | |
| because it changed everything for me. | 5:13 | |
| And I just couldn't get enough of it, | 5:15 | |
| and reading enough of it. | 5:18 | |
| And then it was a professor at, and what the enough was | 5:19 | |
| Women's Experience and it was, that was profound. | 5:23 | |
| And so, interpretation of text, and then also, | 5:28 | |
| reading liberation theologians. | 5:32 | |
| So it wasn't just limited to women, the gender essentialism. | 5:34 | |
| It was the wider experience of interpretation of text, | 5:37 | |
| of stories that I knew deep within my DNA and these stories | 5:42 | |
| then were like coming alive in all new ways. | 5:47 | |
| - | Is that what you mean when you said it changed everything? | 5:52 |
| - | Right, it just, interpretation that's, suddenly, | 5:54 |
| scripture was living and alive, and not static, | 5:58 | |
| not stories of 2,000 years ago, | 6:02 | |
| but stories that were alive today, | 6:05 | |
| and it also brought in the integration of | 6:08 | |
| justice informed by faith, so that really was crucial for me | 6:12 | |
| that, how do we give witness to this, | 6:17 | |
| that we all have a role, and we're story keepers, | 6:20 | |
| that these are stories that have been kept through time, | 6:23 | |
| and women's stories, even if they remain unnamed, we're all | 6:26 | |
| able to tell the story and to kind of break it open. | 6:30 | |
| That was very crucial for me. | 6:34 | |
| And then a professor there, in the religion department, | 6:37 | |
| obviously caught my interest in all of this, | 6:42 | |
| and then she introduced me to a local pastor, | 6:45 | |
| who, and that was my, I believe my third year, | 6:50 | |
| and this local pastor, Pastor Janet Tideman, | 6:54 | |
| was from Our Saviors Lutheran Church | 6:56 | |
| in the Phillips neighborhood of Minneapolis. | 6:58 | |
| And we met at St. Martin's Table. | 7:00 | |
| And Lynn said, "You two need to meet." | 7:03 | |
| And it was, like, Mary and Elizabeth. | 7:05 | |
| It was, that was it, it turned my world. | 7:11 | |
| And Janet then invited me to be the contextual ed student | 7:16 | |
| from Augsburg at Our Savior's, and they had a feminist | 7:20 | |
| gathering group there where they were looking at | 7:25 | |
| goddess rituals and how Christian traditions, | 7:27 | |
| kind of the overlay of where Diana was, where all these | 7:32 | |
| stories of power and myth, the overlay of the Christian | 7:35 | |
| tradition, and so all that came alive. | 7:40 | |
| So there was both critical reflection as well as how to | 7:43 | |
| engage that in a new way in the power of women's experience. | 7:46 | |
| And Janet introduced me to Judith Derrick's books, | 7:51 | |
| it was just much I was reading and then all of a sudden | 7:55 | |
| I begin hearing about Reimagining, | 7:58 | |
| so therein lies the connection and many women | 8:00 | |
| at Our Saviors Lutheran Church were a part of | 8:03 | |
| the planning and or engagement of it, so I was right in it, | 8:06 | |
| but then I was going off an internship, | 8:11 | |
| but I knew I had to be a part of it. | 8:12 | |
| - | That is fantastic! | 8:15 |
| So you did attend the 1993 gathering-- | 8:16 | |
| - | Yes. | 8:18 |
| - | And I would love to hear what you remember about that. | 8:19 |
| - | First is I can go to that place right now | 8:24 |
| entering the room, and the emotion and the energy of | 8:26 | |
| strength, women, it was colorful, it was imaginative, | 8:31 | |
| it was, If I couldn't, if I wouldn't have words. | 8:37 | |
| It was filled, if I could hear anything is what I would say. | 8:43 | |
| It was absolute festival of the power, strength | 8:48 | |
| and so much coming together for about women. | 8:53 | |
| And then the music and the liturgy, because I was here, | 8:57 | |
| music is so important to me, I mean Lutheran hymn-aty, | 9:03 | |
| all of that, and liturgy, to me liturgy is, it's so much | 9:06 | |
| a part of my life and suddenly I was being opened up | 9:10 | |
| in to liturgy of the streets, liturgy of our experiences, | 9:12 | |
| in women's voices, in the experience of women's stories, | 9:17 | |
| and then how women do things. | 9:26 | |
| Setting the table, it was round, it was sensuous, it was, | 9:28 | |
| there was beauty, there was a length of time, | 9:34 | |
| it wasn't about something happens, you would stand in a line | 9:37 | |
| and something happens, it was opened up. | 9:44 | |
| It was like exactly how you have a gathering of | 9:46 | |
| family gathering for everyone. | 9:50 | |
| - | Had you ever experienced anything like that before? | 9:53 |
| - | No. | 9:56 |
| - | Yeah, yeah, yeah. | 9:56 |
| Were there particular moments that stand out? | 9:58 | |
| That was a beautiful description of it-- | 10:01 | |
| - | I think the opening ritual, it was like, it had a | 10:02 |
| compelling sense of wanting to be there. | 10:08 | |
| And gathering together at tables and speaking, | 10:12 | |
| round tables speaking to one another, being present, | 10:17 | |
| so being brought in and having voice and music | 10:22 | |
| in litanies that were fresh in artistic language. | 10:26 | |
| Language that I would say we all knew deep within us. | 10:31 | |
| You didn't have to unpack it, what does this mean? | 10:35 | |
| It was real and then having the speakers, where so the | 10:37 | |
| experience connected and was intrical to the speakers | 10:43 | |
| and sort of the theory laying out what are these social | 10:47 | |
| constructs that have shackled us? | 10:50 | |
| What are these ways that we're being held back? | 10:53 | |
| So that, but I think what was so imperative for me is that | 10:59 | |
| the ritual and worship music pulled that together | 11:04 | |
| so there was a way to stay close to it, where it wasn't, | 11:08 | |
| it's difficult to know how women's lives have been | 11:12 | |
| held back for centuries. | 11:15 | |
| - | Yes. | 11:16 |
| - | But to stay close to it, to be able to be | 11:17 |
| strengthened, to give witness to it. | 11:18 | |
| - | Mhmm, that is wonderful! | 11:20 |
| I know you know about the backlash. | 11:25 | |
| Did any of that affect you personally? | 11:27 | |
| - | For people I knew-- | 11:30 |
| - | Yeah. | |
| - | That is personal that it happened and on an | 11:32 |
| existential level is when something is so profound | 11:34 | |
| that then there's such a negative impact, so I think | 11:39 | |
| there's that deep angst of, oh look at what can happen | 11:42 | |
| when something is so profoundly real. | 11:47 | |
| And to have it turned, that it wasn't believed, | 11:50 | |
| that it was turned into... | 11:54 | |
| Oh like lesbians gathering together! | 11:59 | |
| It was so far from that! | 12:02 | |
| It was just so far from that! | 12:04 | |
| But to have that turned, it shows the power of patriarchy. | 12:05 | |
| So I think that's an impact, a profound impact | 12:10 | |
| of always gaging, needing to remember, oh look at what | 12:14 | |
| can happen, and then the personal stories of women. | 12:17 | |
| And also as a student at Luther, it wasn't something | 12:21 | |
| I could talk about openly at my internship site. | 12:26 | |
| So it wasn't even that my internship site supervisor | 12:30 | |
| knew I was there. | 12:33 | |
| - | Wow. | 12:33 |
| - | So that's unfortunate and sad. | 12:34 |
| - | Mhmm, mhmm. | 12:37 |
| - | Because I brought much of that experience through my year. | 12:39 |
| To the internships-- | 12:43 | |
| - | Oh interesting, how did you bring that? | 12:44 |
| That's interesting. | 12:45 | |
| - | One in teaching confirmation, it's wide open. | 12:46 |
| So bringing in, well knowing how far I could go, | 12:50 | |
| but bringing in the stories of women in scripture. | 12:55 | |
| They're often left out. | 12:57 | |
| - | Yes. | 12:59 |
| - | Of confirmation programs and having each of the students | 12:59 |
| write something of a ritual themselves. | 13:03 | |
| What they would do in shaping something, not thinking | 13:05 | |
| about what's given to them every Sunday. | 13:09 | |
| Sort of an a-canned experience. | 13:11 | |
| Having them write their prayers of how would | 13:13 | |
| they imagine a tender, one, | 13:15 | |
| a holy one who accompanies them. | 13:20 | |
| So just being conscious of language with them-- | 13:22 | |
| - | Yes! | 13:24 |
| - | Without saying you can't use father. | 13:25 |
| - | Yes! | 13:27 |
| - | That has a place. | 13:28 |
| And then within the women's bible studies, | 13:29 | |
| so I kept that going in Tokyo as well at Tokyo Union Church. | 13:33 | |
| So there is-- | 13:37 | |
| - | (mumbles) | |
| - | Mhmm. Yeah every Tuesday I taught a bible study-- | 13:38 |
| - | Wow-- | 13:41 |
| - | Loved it but was kept close. | |
| - | All the materials from Reimagining, carried them with me-- | 13:45 |
| - | Oh-- | 13:48 |
| - | Of when I would pack where I would go. | 13:49 |
| It's still, it's in my office now-- | 13:50 | |
| - | Wow! | 13:52 |
| - | Really, really important. | 13:52 |
| And then used some of the women theologians that I heard | 13:54 | |
| speak, use their work, kept close to what they were | 14:00 | |
| writing and doing, Jan Richardson was exposed to | 14:05 | |
| me then and used a lot of her work in the | 14:09 | |
| bible studies, Sacred Journey. | 14:11 | |
| So there were key things that I could use always, | 14:13 | |
| and then also in, as women, some women in Tokyo | 14:18 | |
| we had once a month Sunday night gathering of | 14:23 | |
| dinner and talking about (mumbles) women had did. | 14:26 | |
| Held women's worship together to support one another. | 14:30 | |
| In ways we couldn't live it out in our every day | 14:34 | |
| callings fully-- | 14:38 | |
| - | How did that worship work? | 14:39 |
| - | We gathered in home, we had a meal together and | 14:41 |
| then we created a ritual, and it shaped, we would | 14:43 | |
| share the leadership-- | 14:47 | |
| - | Yes. | 14:48 |
| - | So it included components of, you know, music, | 14:49 |
| ritual, it became, when I say liturgy, I don't mean | 14:51 | |
| that this is the way it is, but the liturgy of our hearts. | 14:55 | |
| What opens us up in prayer and then how that, | 14:58 | |
| so it's a gathering, a meal together, prayers together, | 15:02 | |
| songs together, so it had that shape. | 15:07 | |
| - | Yes. | 15:09 |
| Oh, that is wonderful! | 15:10 | |
| So actually I have to ask, | 15:13 | |
| were you surprised at the backlash? | 15:14 | |
| - | That's a good question. | 15:17 |
| Maybe I didn't know it, so surprised. | 15:21 | |
| I think I didn't know its power. | 15:25 | |
| - | Okay. | 15:27 |
| - | Beause I was in, typical and I worked with | 15:28 |
| young people (mumbles) was probably these 18-19 year old | 15:30 | |
| first, when I was at Augsburg just like, | 15:33 | |
| oh, this is all the way it is, like everyone has to think | 15:35 | |
| this way, so I went through that and then | 15:38 | |
| working at Our Saviors being in such an inclusive | 15:41 | |
| congregation and creative thinking, I saw the power | 15:45 | |
| of a female pastor, in very important leadership | 15:49 | |
| and how she tapped people, but also was able | 15:53 | |
| to hold the fabric of a more conservative nature | 15:56 | |
| of women and men, how important their witness | 15:59 | |
| in life is to a faith. | 16:02 | |
| How to hold that together. | 16:04 | |
| So I saw tensions now and then, but I think I didn't | 16:05 | |
| for Reimagining anticipate its power of taking women down. | 16:11 | |
| - | Yeah. | 16:17 |
| - | And the deceit and the lies. | 16:17 |
| - | Mhmm, yeah. | 16:19 |
| - | By sort of these strong men who weren't there | 16:20 |
| and who were gonna save everybody back to what it could be. | 16:23 | |
| - | Yes, exactly. | 16:27 |
| So Barbara, how would you define Reimagining? | 16:29 | |
| - | That's, maybe I would go to, I love scripture, | 16:32 |
| maybe I would say it was my Magnificat. | 16:36 | |
| - | Oh, say some more about that! | 16:39 |
| - | My world turned. | 16:42 |
| - | Yes! | 16:43 |
| - | It was really powerful. | 16:44 |
| So, yeah I would say it's the Magnificat. | 16:50 | |
| That there's a structure and there was a power in place. | 16:53 | |
| And it took women coming together and others who | 16:57 | |
| were supporters, non women, but women coming together, | 17:01 | |
| trusting one another, believing their experience, | 17:05 | |
| and sharing ways they could become, sharing witness I guess. | 17:08 | |
| So that saying yes to something they didn't know | 17:16 | |
| what it would turn out to be. | 17:19 | |
| And that's what I mean by Magnificat. | 17:21 | |
| Addressing the powers, saying yes to what they didn't | 17:23 | |
| know and letting their imagination and ideas go forth. | 17:26 | |
| - | Wow. | 17:31 |
| - | And that's what turned it! | 17:32 |
| - | Yeah. | 17:34 |
| - | I wouldn't know from the planners if there were limits, | 17:35 |
| like, oh we can't do this, I'm sure they went through | 17:38 | |
| those tensions, but for me it felt like they were | 17:40 | |
| saying this is our tent, and let's open all of the, | 17:43 | |
| let's hook up all of the ends and let everything come | 17:47 | |
| and be and flow, there was fluidity, there were | 17:51 | |
| different contradictory ideas at times, | 17:57 | |
| and that's what I loved! | 18:00 | |
| - | Yeah, yeah! | 18:01 |
| - | Mhmm, there were loads of books. | 18:03 |
| I mean there was just, yeah, it was a feast. | 18:06 | |
| - | Oh, so many lovely images there! | 18:10 |
| That was great! | 18:12 | |
| I think you've already said it in a certain sense, | 18:14 | |
| but can I ask it anyway just to see what you might say. | 18:16 | |
| What aspects of Reimagining were most | 18:19 | |
| significant to you and why? | 18:20 | |
| - | One from an experiential person, as a young woman | 18:24 |
| that I saw women together naming, | 18:27 | |
| an experience that was deep within me. | 18:30 | |
| It was so deep within me, there was a sense of a deep | 18:33 | |
| beloved-ness to nature, there was a deep beloved-ness | 18:37 | |
| to all is sacred, and there is a deep beloved-ness to | 18:40 | |
| communion and a holiness that took on a new frame | 18:44 | |
| for me that small S, big S, sacred, small C, big C, | 18:48 | |
| communion that, it all was coming into | 18:56 | |
| fruition of kind of, this is what is known. | 19:01 | |
| So it's a very experiential level. | 19:04 | |
| And then a level of integrating my studies in seminary, | 19:07 | |
| and college, and my own interest in kind of the | 19:12 | |
| sociological make up of people and how things come together, | 19:17 | |
| and how things can be changed. | 19:22 | |
| The social constructs that can oppress or open up. | 19:24 | |
| I think that-- | 19:28 | |
| - | And how did you see that in Reimagining? | 19:29 |
| - | Addressing the structures-- | 19:32 |
| - | Yes, yes! | 19:33 |
| - | Really clear of naming it like it is, not avoiding, | 19:34 |
| not saying, oh, but women were always mentioned in the | 19:37 | |
| bible, isn't that... | 19:40 | |
| There was not a niceness or a safety to it. | 19:41 | |
| It was, there was a truthfulness and an illumination | 19:44 | |
| that was like, yes, yes, yes, yes. | 19:49 | |
| - | Mhmm. | 19:51 |
| - | And that's what I mean by think we're liturgy | 19:52 |
| in the worship, and the rituals, and the music were | 19:54 | |
| so important, because that truth was hard at times. | 19:55 | |
| - | Yeah. | 20:00 |
| - | And that we could then sing together, I mean those songs | 20:01 |
| still, I can hear everyone | 20:07 | |
| ♪ Sofia ♪ | 20:08 | |
| And that we can dream together. | 20:10 | |
| There was a vision, and if we didn't hold to that | 20:12 | |
| we would perish-- | 20:15 | |
| - | Yes. | 20:16 |
| - | There was a sensitivity to the, there was at times, | 20:17 |
| the singing was deep and held, like almost in chant. | 20:23 | |
| So we could take in, it was like drinking the information | 20:29 | |
| that we were hearing, that I was hearing. | 20:32 | |
| - | Yes, yeah! | 20:35 |
| - | So that's so important-- | 20:38 |
| - | Absolutely! | |
| - | That wasn't just throwing something at us. | 20:42 |
| - | Yes, oh! | 20:45 |
| That is great! | 20:47 | |
| When you think about it, did your involvement | 20:49 | |
| in Reimagining change your perspective on | 20:52 | |
| feminist theology and or the church? | 20:54 | |
| - | Well it only enhanced my understanding of | 21:00 |
| feminist theology and then continued to broaden, | 21:03 | |
| where today I'm still learning like what is queer theology? | 21:06 | |
| I mean it's just, it's like the body of Christ was so big, | 21:09 | |
| and so inviting, and so free and also so difficult. | 21:15 | |
| Because it's so easy to draw a territorial lines. | 21:20 | |
| And so the Christian household really expanded | 21:24 | |
| for me, growing up in a very Lutheran context, | 21:27 | |
| Lutheran college, Luther seminary, it's like | 21:30 | |
| wow, the Christian household was just, there are | 21:33 | |
| so many places, so many rooms, so many people, | 21:37 | |
| so that was powerful, the church whole. | 21:40 | |
| I think it's, it moves very slowly. | 21:47 | |
| And there's a pain to that, and there's also | 21:51 | |
| after Reimagining, what was really fortified | 21:55 | |
| within me, there's no giving up though. | 21:57 | |
| And that I love scripture, and it's about having, | 22:02 | |
| it's not static, I think I've said that. | 22:09 | |
| That honing in, there's so much for interpretation | 22:12 | |
| and reinterpretation and gathering many together | 22:15 | |
| for imagination of, what does this story mean? | 22:20 | |
| I just experienced a little Reimagining, I keep | 22:24 | |
| experiencing Reimagining, I think in small | 22:27 | |
| microcosm of ways, now with my work with Wisdom Ways. | 22:30 | |
| And I'm learning so much about the Catholic feast days! | 22:34 | |
| And ways that women have been apart of the tradition, | 22:37 | |
| the four doctors of the church now. | 22:43 | |
| It's so powerful! | 22:45 | |
| Hilda Guard-a-bing and Catherine of Siena for example. | 22:46 | |
| But we just had July 22nd, a Mary Magdalene feast day. | 22:49 | |
| - | Oh! | 22:53 |
| - | And this is every year here! | 22:53 |
| - | I didn't know that! | 22:55 |
| - | I wrote a friend who I was seminary with, | 22:56 |
| sent an email that's like, imagine what we would | 22:58 | |
| of done with a Mary Magdalene feast day at seminary! | 23:01 | |
| - | Yes! | 23:04 |
| - | So that's what I mean by widening the Christian household. | 23:05 |
| We have so much to learn from our Catholic sisters | 23:08 | |
| who've held, I mean the first 1,000 years of leadership | 23:10 | |
| of women in the churches there, in the catacombs, | 23:14 | |
| in so much, those Protestants, the church didn't begin | 23:17 | |
| 500 years ago, and sometimes we focus so much on | 23:21 | |
| reformation, wow there's so much mist of the sisterhood. | 23:25 | |
| So, yeah we just had this Mary Magdalene feast day | 23:31 | |
| and almost 50 women gathering outside at 7:30 in the morning | 23:33 | |
| and we have a ritual, a worship of, for written by | 23:37 | |
| Future Church, Catholic women, of women in leadership, | 23:45 | |
| and we tell the gospel stories. | 23:49 | |
| Everyone hears a story from one teller of her perspective | 23:53 | |
| of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, | 23:58 | |
| and that story of Mary Magdalene-- | 24:00 | |
| - | Wow! | 24:02 |
| - | So it's told in very contemporary ways | 24:03 |
| or very ancient ways, and then we anoint each other in | 24:04 | |
| spices and go and remind each other, we go tell | 24:08 | |
| the story of the risen one. | 24:12 | |
| So you hear very, the language is very Christian | 24:14 | |
| oriented, less than Reimagining types of worship. | 24:20 | |
| Very Christian oriented, but that's the strength of | 24:24 | |
| that is so powerful, as women we gather and | 24:28 | |
| tell the stories about women-- | 24:31 | |
| - | Yes! | 24:33 |
| - | In scripture. | |
| - | And today in the church. | 24:35 |
| - | Oh, sounds wonderful, just wonderful! | 24:36 |
| So in the end, what do you | 24:39 | |
| think is the legacy of Reimagining? | 24:41 | |
| - | It's probably still evolving. | 24:45 |
| Because I think it took probably some years to, you asked me | 24:49 | |
| the question of was I surprised at the backlash, | 24:53 | |
| it probably took some years to deconstruct that, | 24:56 | |
| it's like, wow, we got blown down. | 24:59 | |
| Some people lost employment, I mean, lost their | 25:02 | |
| regard of who they were in the life of the church. | 25:06 | |
| So it probably took some years to deconstruct | 25:11 | |
| what happened, how to reconstruct then, | 25:14 | |
| building up again the body of Christ and then | 25:18 | |
| wider, the wider than that even, as women coming | 25:22 | |
| together from other faiths. | 25:26 | |
| So the legacy, I would say continues and evolves | 25:28 | |
| but it's about bringing women together, | 25:31 | |
| honoring and trusting so much unprocessed information | 25:34 | |
| about women through centuries, has to be listened to, | 25:38 | |
| understood, re-examined, thought through, | 25:42 | |
| or it's just like, half of human experiences not considered. | 25:45 | |
| So, all that unprocessed information | 25:51 | |
| continues to be thought through and broadened then, | 25:55 | |
| now as inter-faith, inter-religious. | 26:00 | |
| I think the legacy of reconstructing what happened, | 26:06 | |
| and then how we move forth, because these little | 26:09 | |
| things happen to women all over the place. | 26:12 | |
| Women might be in a small, rural congregation if they | 26:15 | |
| happen to use, I think mothering God or something, | 26:18 | |
| then there's a little re-examining of their role | 26:23 | |
| as a minister, which is an example of, it's still unfolds. | 26:26 | |
| - | Yes-- | 26:30 |
| - | But the profound legacy is bringing women together | 26:31 |
| in women's voices, for and about women! | 26:35 | |
| - | Oh Barbara, that's wonderful! | 26:38 |
| Is there anything we haven't discussed that | 26:40 | |
| you would like to add? | 26:42 | |
| - | No, I think this is great-- | 26:44 |
| - | Yes! | 26:46 |
| - | In finding ways to support this project. | 26:46 |
| - | Yes! | 26:48 |
| - | But it's just again, I would say how it changed my life. | 26:49 |
| - | Yes, that was wonderful! | 26:52 |
Item Info
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