Williams, Genie / Re-Imagining Collection / Duke Digital Repository

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Well Genie, it is a delight to see you.

0:04

Just some background information.

0:09

Could you say your name?

0:10

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Genie Williams.

0:12

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Good.

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Eugenia.

0:14

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Eugenia,

you know I didn't even know that, that's interesting.

0:15

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I'm just Genie and rub the lamp and there I am.

0:17

(laughing)

0:20

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Oh I love it.

0:22

Are you lay or clergy?

0:23

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I guess lay.

0:27

UCC counts commission ministers as--

0:30

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Oh okay what does commission minister mean?

0:33

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It's about a field, like commission

0:37

in Christian education.

0:39

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Okay, what did you do for Christian education?

0:41

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Well the real truth is I sang in the choir one year

0:44

and several people including the choir director

0:48

said why don't you teach Sunday School?

0:51

(laughing)

0:53

So I got into Christian education and at that point

0:55

that would've been in '60s, '70s.

0:58

At that point there was a lot

1:03

of lay Christian education.

1:05

By the time I'd taken oodles of courses,

1:08

it was like a college education.

1:11

So I was a certified Christian educator.

1:14

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What did you do then at church?

1:17

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And then I worked for 24 years at Mizpah Church,

1:20

United Church of Christ in Hopkins.

1:25

I said my job description was

1:29

Christian education and everything senior minister

1:33

didn't wanna do.

1:36

(laughing)

And I worked for seven different ones.

1:38

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Wow. (laughs)

1:41

You were the constant it sounds like.

1:43

That's amazing.

1:45

Is that what you were doing at the time

1:48

of the Reimagining?

1:50

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Yeah, mm-hm.

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Good.

1:52

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I think I retired it in the '80s, in the late '80s.

1:54

No, no, no, that's not true.

1:59

Yeah, no, but I was working at the time of,

2:02

the conferences.

2:06

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Is that what you continued to do after Reimagining?

2:07

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Yeah.

2:11

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Yeah, yeah.

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I retired from there and that was the end of.

2:13

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Are you okay if I mention how old you are?

2:18

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No, not a bit.

2:21

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You're gonna be 90 next month.

2:22

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Yes.

2:24

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Wow and I just have to add you look amazing.

2:25

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And I worked at the church until I was 69.

2:28

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Did you really?

2:31

Is that your secret to staying young?

2:34

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Maybe.

2:36

(laughing)

2:37

Maybe.

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When and where were you born?

2:41

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I was born near Philadelphia, in Philadelphia.

2:43

And I lived in the suburbs of Philadelphia until 1953.

2:46

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Is that right?

2:52

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And then we moved here when my husband

2:53

shared the ownership of the local newspapers.

2:56

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Is that right, okay.

2:59

So that's what brought you here.

3:01

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Joined the Mizpah Church in '54

3:02

and I've been there ever since.

3:05

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Wow that's impressive.

3:07

How and when did you first become aware

3:10

of feminist theology?

3:12

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I suppose through Reimagining.

3:14

I never thought much about it before.

3:17

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Really?

3:19

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And I didn't sign up originally when everybody

3:20

was kind of talking about it because we did so much

3:23

in Christian Ed. in this area.

3:26

We would go places and talk about what a good time

3:29

we were having and everybody else from other parts

3:31

of the country would complain about they didn't like

3:34

the way they were treated as Christian educators

3:37

and so forth but we had really good relationships

3:39

around and ecumenical relationships.

3:43

So I knew many of the people on file

3:45

and finally I was hearing that the,

3:48

I guess it was 1993 and the first,

3:52

was it the woman of the year.

3:57

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Ecumenical decade.

3:59

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Yeah.

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And solidarity with woman.

4:01

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Yeah.

People all over the country were asked to do workshops

4:04

so that's what all this was gonna be.

4:06

And then I began to hear about it,

4:09

so I thought yeah I'd like to be a part of it.

4:11

So I guess my first job in the was

4:14

I was assigned to change the tablecloths,

4:18

the paper tablecloths in the morning

4:21

each morning of that first conference.

4:24

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Really?

4:26

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Because we drew on them and then we changed

4:28

the location of each table.

4:31

The tablecloths went with them.

4:33

I laughed because I figured it was the first time

4:36

I knew I was part of women's conference

4:39

rather than a men's because there was always

4:43

somebody in there having half of it done

4:45

before I ever got there.

4:47

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Really, I love it, that is great.

4:49

So what do you remember from that 1993 conference?

4:52

Although that's a great memory right there,

4:55

what other things?

4:56

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Oh the worship was outstanding

5:01

because it came from every corner.

5:04

It didn't come from some place up front.

5:06

It came from everywhere which I thought was fascinating

5:10

and the people you met were amazing.

5:12

It was just a really friendly thing too.

5:19

Well of course I remember some of the backlash

5:31

which was amazing.

5:33

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It was, we'll need to talk about that in a minute.

5:35

But I was wondering, you said that was your introduction

5:38

to feminist theology, do you remember how you--

5:40

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I never thought much about it before that.

5:42

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How did you react to it when you heard about it?

5:45

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I believed it.

5:47

(laughing)

5:49

I believed it.

5:51

I remember, was it Dolores Williams, who was adamant about,

5:54

NAFTA, what was going on with that southern,

6:00

the trade agreement, NAFTA, is that right?

6:04

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Yep, that sounds right, yes.

6:07

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It was not passed at that time and she was adamant

6:10

about having it passed.

6:13

It already did all of the things

6:15

that she said it would do.

6:16

It took business down to Mexico.

6:18

I remember her talks, I remember,

6:21

I remember biting the apple.

6:24

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You do, yes.

6:27

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We sort of kept that all the way through,

6:31

that icon.

6:34

And just so many people from so many places

6:40

with so many ideas and it was a wonderful mix

6:43

of worship and learning and friendship

6:47

and it was just a beautiful mix of all of that together.

6:54

We ate together and we talked together.

6:57

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That's exactly right, yeah.

7:00

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I remember during the later one,

7:02

I would work at the bookstore for instance.

7:04

I can remember a woman coming in from

7:06

I think Virginia or some place.

7:10

She got there early so she could get books

7:13

because she couldn't get any of those books

7:16

near where she was.

7:18

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Really?

Wow, that says a lot, doesn't it?

7:20

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Mm-hm.

7:22

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Yeah.

I'm sorry I kind of interrupted you.

7:24

You were starting to talk about the backlash

7:25

and I do wanna hear, did that affect you at all?

7:27

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Well you got kind of involved and you couldn't

7:30

get away from it.

7:33

(laughing)

I ended up with Sue Swanson

7:35

and I would do quarterly worships.

7:37

And we still go have pie

7:40

at Baker Square because that was what we did

7:44

for every planning.

7:48

We learned a lot through doing that planning

7:53

and then of course there was a big conference every year

7:55

for the next 10 years.

8:02

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So tell me more, you were involved in quarterly worship.

8:05

You were on the coordinating council.

8:08

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Yeah, I was on the coordinating council

8:09

before you were allowed to be on the coordinating council.

8:11

(laughing)

8:14

Kind of worked in the office worked.

8:19

We have a group that still meets and it was...

8:23

Who used to run that magazine?

8:29

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PM Journ?

8:32

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No.

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Nancy Burneket.

8:34

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Nancy Burneket was part of that group.

8:35

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Was she?

8:37

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That was really fun.

8:37

Joe Ringingburd was part of that.

8:42

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We've lost both of them.

8:45

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So that group is still going and I think your group

8:48

is the only other small one I know of that's still going.

8:50

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That's right, right.

8:54

How many people are in your small group now?

8:55

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About six I think

8:57

and then somebody has joined in it too.

9:00

Some of them weren't, somebody just joined us

9:02

and she was no part of the original Reimagining.

9:05

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Oh well that's good, so it's still going on

9:09

and even adding members.

9:11

I'd love to hear, what does your small group do?

9:13

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We are reading a book right now.

9:17

We just never run out of things to talk about.

9:23

A lot of it's preservation of the world

9:26

or it's what's going on

9:29

in churches and it's not as feminist just general,

9:30

general conversation and political.

9:35

We've been trying to save the world now

9:39

for how many years and it hasn't worked yet.

9:40

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I'm not giving up on you though.

9:43

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We'll work at it.

9:45

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Do you normally read books?

9:47

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We have read some, not a lot.

9:49

We sometimes have a book in the background.

9:52

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But a lot of times it's just getting

9:55

together for conversation.

9:56

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Yeah, and we generally get together

9:58

about once a month.

10:00

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Really, that's wonderful.

10:01

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And I think that most of the people at some point

10:03

have been a part of one of the conferences.

10:06

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That's neat.

10:10

When you talked about the quarterly worship,

10:12

what was it like planning those?

10:15

Or go into those?

10:17

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We did things like I can remember doing a,

10:19

over here at the Methodist Church

10:23

because I had a labyrinth

10:24

so we planned one around that labyrinth.

10:26

The thing we basically learned from that

10:29

was never play hymns while you're,

10:30

we had a couple of kids who were playing violins

10:34

but they played hymns and you can't do the labyrinth

10:36

while you've got a hymn going on.

10:39

(laughing)

10:40

Just play like wild music.

10:42

That was a big learning point.

10:45

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I didn't know that, that's good to know.

10:46

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There was just a sort of a theme and there

10:52

were different places and I can't remember

10:54

a lot of them now.

10:57

I think we did some,

10:59

what's the solstice--

11:01

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Solstice, yes.

11:03

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Ones and, we had a different theme each time.

11:05

It didn't have a big attendance but it had some.

11:10

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Right yeah, and how about your memories

11:13

of the coordinating council?

11:16

What was that like?

11:18

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I know I was the co-chair

11:19

of one and the one on power.

11:24

I think I was the co-chair of another

11:29

but I'm not sure and then I remember

11:31

the last one was interesting because

11:33

there was two younger people who were doing it.

11:35

Some of the council people were complaining

11:41

because they weren't making any money

11:44

and they were at a loss of where to turn,

11:45

so I said I'd help, well I couldn't.

11:48

I was a tri-chair, it was like three generations

11:51

doing that last one.

11:53

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Really?

11:55

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'Cause I knew the names of people,

11:57

learned to get help, how to do it

12:01

and we used the worship team

12:02

from the (mumbles) Avenue Methodist Church.

12:06

Special service that they had

12:09

and they were the

12:11

worshiping team that led it.

12:14

And that was fun to work with.

12:17

Mary Bedmorowski was, sat with us in doing a lot.

12:19

On the red couch or something like that.

12:26

It was one of the books that was done

12:29

by one of the tri-chairs.

12:32

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Rachel Gaffron.

12:34

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Yeah.

But that was fun to do because we just picked up

12:43

and then we announced it was going to be the last one.

12:45

And then the money came in like mad.

12:48

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Really?

12:51

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And so they had the money to get to the seminary

12:52

for scholarships and things.

12:54

But otherwise we were almost gonna go in debt.

12:56

As soon as we said it was the last,

13:01

people came and people gave money.

13:03

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Interesting.

13:07

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And the other one I was the co-chair

13:08

of was the one on power with Lenny Russel, is that right?

13:10

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I think that's right.

13:13

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We used to, we did,

13:15

I think people did anyway.

13:17

When were the conferences, they were in the fall?

13:20

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Yes.

13:23

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I think in about April we had Lenny come in

13:25

and we had the people who were working on the team

13:28

talk with her and she of course said

13:32

had a power kind of background in her Presbyterian stuff.

13:35

She came and we talked and...

13:40

Knew that there were always two people doing everything,

13:44

never one person.

13:47

After that whole weekend, after that whole day,

13:50

I was taking her back to the airport,

13:54

she said well I have a different idea of power

13:56

than I had when I came.

13:58

She was redoing some of the things that she was gonna do.

14:00

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Really.

14:04

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But one of the fun power things was she brought

14:05

her partner with her.

14:07

This partner had a part of Cooksbury

14:11

or was very friendly with I don't know,

14:13

but anyway, she called that Cooksbury Company

14:16

and said they're only giving ordained people discounts.

14:19

In this place, in this conference,

14:23

everybody should get a discount.

14:25

And I, well now there's power.

14:28

(laughing)

14:30

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That's a great example.

14:32

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But it was an exciting place to be

14:39

and there was always something to do.

14:42

For some of the conferences,

14:45

I gathered the workshops or

14:46

there was some job to do at each of the conferences.

14:50

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So were you pretty much involved the whole 10 years?

14:54

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I guess so.

14:56

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It sounds like it.

Yes, yes, that's wonderful.

14:58

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I think I was on the council a long time

15:00

'cause I don't think they had kind of revolving terms

15:03

until the end and then they sort of

15:06

made revolving terms.

15:08

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To get back to the backlash,

15:12

how do you account, did you, how do you account

15:16

for it, do you think?

15:19

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I think of the UCC as being pretty liberal

15:20

and they weren't as much of that

15:22

but I just remember those Methodists

15:25

and Presbyterian churches with their.

15:28

One of the fun things and I think it was after the first

15:35

one I went out to see my daughter in Pennsylvania

15:37

and I drove, it was right after the conference.

15:41

I just played all the music and all the worship

15:43

and all the way driving out to Pennsylvania.

15:46

Then when I got there, we went to her ministerium

15:50

and they said introduce your mother, Karen,

15:55

which she did and I went to sit down.

15:58

And just a minute, we want to hear from someone

16:00

who was there.

16:02

(laughing)

16:03

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Really.

16:06

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Then I went out to lunch with some of them

16:09

and we talked about it.

16:11

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And how did they respond?

16:12

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Well things, it wasn't communion.

16:13

That's what people got so upset about.

16:15

We couldn't do communion because we'd have Catholics there

16:18

and so we did milk and honey, that was...

16:21

The love feast.

16:25

That had nothing to do

16:27

and then I remember one comment...

16:29

Patrick (mumbles) St. John's.

16:37

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Yes.

16:39

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Yeah.

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Yes.

16:40

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I think in his book 'til we brought it out, that,

16:40

one of their things was never have a round table.

16:44

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That's right.

16:46

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Have somebody at the head of the table

16:47

but never have a round table.

16:49

And just so many things like that

16:52

and they were just out to look for things.

16:56

Poor Sally Hill just knocked herself out over all that.

16:58

And then the people who were fired or couldn't work.

17:02

The gal from the National Presbyterian--

17:07

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Mary Ann Lundy?

17:11

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Yeah Mary Ann Lundy.

And then she went for the World Council of Churches.

17:14

So she always said she was fired up.

17:17

(laughing)

17:19

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That's right.

Do you recall, were you surprised at the backlash?

17:23

Did you anticipate that or did people--

17:25

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No, I think I come from a fairly liberal church.

17:27

That was a surprise.

17:31

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Yeah, yeah.

17:34

Were you part of it when they were forming

17:36

the community, do you remember what that was like?

17:38

The decision to form the community?

17:40

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In the very beginning?

17:42

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Yes.

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No, I wasn't part of the beginning.

17:44

I loved the idea that somebody,

17:46

whatever they were doing, they spelled it wrong

17:48

and they came out with Reimagine.

17:50

I love that story.

17:52

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Yes, yes, me too.

Yeah, yeah.

17:55

You were very involved in a lot of it.

17:56

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And then I remember the first one and they had the play

17:59

about the shakers?

18:02

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Yes.

18:04

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And the fact that someone got in

18:05

and stole all the coats and money and all that stuff.

18:07

That whole group just got together.

18:12

And then the fact that people came from all kinds of places

18:16

and were cold and they had to bring in coats

18:19

and scarves and things to keep all the people warm.

18:21

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Lots of hospitality.

18:26

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Mm-hm.

-

Yeah, definitely, yeah.

18:28

Well Genie, after all your involvement in it,

18:31

how would you define Reimagining?

18:33

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Look at new ways of seeing,

18:40

of appreciating God, of worshiping God.

18:46

Of course the language matters and we had had

18:50

in terms of language for a long time in the UCC Church,

18:53

so that wasn't a shock but just the way of doing it

18:57

and then the idea of always having two.

19:00

Never doing it alone.

19:04

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Just say some more about that.

19:06

That was your experience, why did that matter so much?

19:07

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There was always a co-chair.

19:10

For some reason I think I co-chaired a third,

19:15

earlier one in the power one.

19:18

But I'm not sure when that was, that may have been.

19:21

What one of those chair people is good at,

19:26

the other one is good at something else.

19:29

So you can share the load.

19:32

Then there was always somebody to consult with

19:35

rather than just making decisions.

19:37

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Yes, yeah.

19:39

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There's just so many wonderful memories

19:45

of all the conferences.

19:46

Each one has something.

19:49

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Are there any other memories you wanna talk about?

19:51

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I think women who had

19:53

the necktie...

19:57

(mumbles) I guess, it was a big (mumbles)

20:03

and it was made out of neckties and I always loved that one.

20:05

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Really?

20:07

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Can't remember her name.

20:09

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Yes.

20:11

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I get excused 'cause I'm 90.

20:12

(laughing)

20:14

I can't remember names.

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Well you know what, it's been almost 25 years.

20:15

A lot of us are forgetting names.

20:18

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How about the...

20:20

One who came in was really sick

20:23

and the gal from the labyrinth and they

20:25

prayed for her, she was leading it

20:28

and she had gotten really sick beforehand.

20:29

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Oh.

20:33

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She came through enough to come lead

20:37

the thing that she was gonna do.

20:39

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Yes.

20:41

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I don't remember her name.

20:45

She was one of the leaders of one of the conferences.

20:47

The gal who does labyrinths.

20:51

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Jill Jeffrien?

20:53

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Jill Jeffrien

was a chair at that time and they really worked with her.

20:55

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Did they, wow, that's impressive, yeah, yeah.

20:59

As you think back on it, you were really involved in it

21:06

so much, how do you think feminist theology

21:09

affected the function, the way the community functioned?

21:11

The way it was structured, the way it functioned.

21:14

You talked about co-chairs for example

21:16

but are there other things that you can think of?

21:17

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Well I loved the fact there were men there.

21:21

It wasn't just women.

21:24

There was men who appreciated.

21:26

Who appreciated women.

21:30

There were different ways of looking at things.

21:35

Well I can't think of anything especially now, but...

21:47

And very often there wasn't just somebody in front,

21:54

there was always coming from all around places.

21:56

Everybody was a part of it.

22:01

Rather than just one leader at a time.

22:05

All opinions were accepted

22:11

and talked about and...

22:14

Included.

22:19

Even I think the coordinating council

22:23

had co-chairs of things.

22:26

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Yes, that's right, yeah, yeah.

22:30

What challenges were faced by the community

22:34

over those 10 years and how were they addressed?

22:37

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Well the people that didn't want women in charge.

22:40

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Yes (laughs) yeah.

22:44

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The problem is that my church was liberal enough,

22:51

I mean people didn't even have women as ushers.

22:54

One of my favorite at church was two women

22:59

were elected to the Board of Christian Stewardship.

23:02

For the first time women involved in that.

23:08

They made a pact that neither one

23:12

was gonna be secretary.

23:13

(laughing)

23:15

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That's good.

23:17

Yeah, yes, yes.

23:19

What do you think of the way that Reimagining addressed

23:21

the whole issue of the backlash?

23:24

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Well I think they addressed it in a positive way.

23:28

They didn't react to it, well they reacted

23:34

in they did more but they did it positively

23:37

not back lashing the back lash.

23:40

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Right, right, yeah.

23:43

You mentioned in the last conference

23:45

there was that issue of people, was it people

23:47

not getting paid or something,

23:50

so that kind of became an issue?

23:51

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Well there was not gonna be enough money.

23:53

They were gonna run out of money.

23:55

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Oh I see, okay.

23:57

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For running the thing and we changed the location.

23:59

But we ended by having enough

24:06

and we had a long talking where

24:07

people got up sort of reminiscing

24:12

about what Reimagining had been to them.

24:14

I remember two Catholic nuns who were always there.

24:19

They left and they said our bishops

24:23

didn't even know what was going on. (laughs)

24:25

-

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.

24:29

Do you remember that time, how did you feel

24:31

about that time of the ending of it?

24:34

-

Well it felt like a piece was going away.

24:37

A piece of my life.

24:41

I enjoyed the magazine.

24:44

I carry with me all the time one of the pieces

24:47

from one of the magazines that I love.

24:50

-

Oh I'd love to see that.

24:53

-

And it's written by a 14 year old girl.

25:06

I just put it in my calendar every year

25:11

and it's just about God and the wind.

25:14

-

Neither Heard Nor Seen by Lindsey Messenger.

25:17

Wow.

25:22

What is it about this that

25:25

do you wanna read it or?

25:26

-

I can.

25:28

-

Yeah, that'd be lovely.

25:29

-

Neither heard or seen, we know God is there.

25:30

Moving softly on the currents of a warm breeze.

25:33

Weaving in and out through the world

25:36

of which we are a part.

25:38

The wind is not seeing and yet it is capable

25:40

of destroying the city, but it's also the same

25:42

force that may send a boat safely back to shore.

25:46

The air which we breathe is not seen

25:49

yet it fills our lungs and hearts with life.

25:52

On a cool night it sends shivers through our skin.

25:55

We feel its presence but cannot touch it.

25:58

We know how to believe in things

26:01

we cannot see or understand.

26:03

Guided along the path of life.

26:04

Always in God's presence.

26:07

Let us breathe deeply and fill our hearts

26:08

with a mysterious understanding of God.

26:11

-

Oh that is beautiful and you said that was--

26:14

-

That was in a Reimagining newsletter

26:16

written by a 14 year old girl.

26:19

-

14 year old girl, wow.

26:21

That is beautiful, what about that in particular?

26:23

-

It's just the way I feel about God.

26:26

It's a presence but it's pretty unexplainable.

26:31

-

Yes, yes, yeah, that is beautiful.

26:35

I can see why you keep carrying that around.

26:40

-

I just put it in my calendar every year.

26:42

-

Do you, yes, yeah.

26:43

That is wonderful.

26:46

In a way this is following up on that.

26:47

What aspects of Reimagining were most significant

26:50

to you and why?

26:52

-

I think the magazine was interesting

26:54

and of course the conferences were exciting and...

26:56

Working with the people was...

27:02

And always a new look at things.

27:07

Always a new way of understanding something.

27:10

-

Yes, yeah, definitely, yeah.

27:12

-

I don't feel the feminist angle so strongly

27:20

because I had been feeling that all the way.

27:24

I mean that's, my church is that way anyway.

27:27

We had biblical witness which had some backlash

27:31

but it wasn't as bad as the Presbyterian Methodist ones.

27:34

-

If it wasn't the feminist theology so much,

27:40

what was it that really grabbed you about Reimagining?

27:43

-

It was the people, the interest,

27:47

the new look at things,

27:48

the responsibility of the people involved was amazing

27:55

and they followed through on so many things.

27:59

They saw things that made things happen.

28:04

-

They sure did.

28:08

Did your involvement in Reimagining change

28:10

your perspective on feminist theology or the church at all?

28:13

-

It just widened it.

28:17

I think it widened it.

28:19

Made me realize there was more than UCC.

28:23

Other people believed this too.

28:27

-

Yes, yeah, yeah.

28:29

So it was more the ecumenical aspect of it?

28:32

Of denominations?

28:35

-

Yeah, that's true.

28:37

-

Is there something else you meant by widened it?

28:39

-

It just...

28:43

Made me think more of women's place in...

28:46

In everything.

28:48

We are 50% of the society.

28:52

I loved the Senate when the first woman was elected.

28:55

I think there are 20 in the Senate right now.

29:00

And they get things done there.

29:03

They get together and they plan and they cross parties

29:04

and they make things happen.

29:08

The first woman, there was not a women's room

29:12

near the Senate.

29:15

-

Oh my goodness.

29:16

(laughing)

-

I always thought that was interesting.

29:21

-

Yes, exactly.

29:23

What specific contributions do you think

29:27

Reimagining made to theology or liturgy?

29:30

-

Certainly inclusive language was helped.

29:35

And open the doors for lots of things.

29:44

I mean why would there only be men ushers?

29:47

Why would there only be (mumbles).

29:50

And we now have a woman minister.

29:52

Just chosen and

29:55

worked with one of the gals at church

29:58

and we were on the search committee for our interim

30:01

and she did not want a woman.

30:05

Garth was just wonderful and it would've been hard

30:07

to replace but we had Rosemary came in

30:11

to take care of the summer when he got another job

30:13

and I was glad that there was a woman there

30:15

to sort of spread the way.

30:17

And then the search committee just said,

30:20

we just picked the best one.

30:23

We didn't even look whether it was a woman or a man

30:25

and it is a woman and she is great.

30:26

I talked to my friend who didn't want a woman.

30:30

I said what if we get a woman minister?

30:34

Well I don't have to listen to her.

30:35

-

This is even at a liberal church.

30:39

-

Yes.

30:41

-

Yeah.

-

And then so I saw her the other day and we were doing.

30:42

I said how do you like?

30:45

She says I like it, I love her.

30:47

-

Oh really?

30:49

-

And she just stepped in

and she is leading.

30:51

We had a full day

30:53

on the building and who are we as a church

30:56

and 50 people were there.

30:59

I remember there are really active people in the church.

31:01

-

That's good to hear.

31:04

-

They were looking ahead

and she ran that meeting beautifully.

31:06

-

The pastor did?

31:09

-

Yeah.

-

Yeah, yeah, that is so good to hear.

31:11

-

And so we've been really pleased with her.

31:14

-

I'm so glad, yeah.

31:18

Looking toward the future of Reimagining,

31:19

as we're kind of ending up here.

31:22

What do you think, as you look back on it,

31:24

what do you think is the greatest legacy of Reimagining?

31:26

-

Open your eyes and see that there are more

31:31

than one way to do things.

31:34

-

That's good.

31:36

-

And there's both sexes can do things.

31:38

They may do them differently but

31:43

they all come out with a good ending.

31:44

And all men aren't anti-women.

31:49

There are some that are very much in favor

31:53

of the feminist ideas.

31:55

-

Absolutely, yeah.

31:58

We had a couple who were really involved, didn't we?

32:00

-

Yeah you were talking about Matt Manning.

32:02

-

Manly, yeah.

32:06

-

Manly.

The ones who did the worship, Steve?

32:10

-

Steve Blonds?

32:14

-

Steve Blonds.

32:15

-

Yes.

-

And his partner at United Methodist downtown

32:17

who did the worship for the final one?

32:22

It was Steve Blonds with him.

32:24

-

I don't remember who that was, I'm sorry.

32:27

-

They do the worship and I can't remember her name.

32:30

But anyway, he certainly was part of things.

32:33

-

Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.

32:37

That's right.

32:41

What do you think Reimagining

32:43

could or should mean today?

32:46

What needs to be reimagined I guess?

32:48

-

I guess it's eternal, I mean we haven't gotten

32:52

all the way there yet.

32:55

As I told you about my minis--

32:57

-

Right, yes.

32:59

-

Eyes just have to still be opened

33:03

to feelings, discussed and planned.

33:05

It's almost like racism.

33:09

The feminist ideas still have to be

33:14

included and

33:18

embraced

33:23

and kept adamant.

33:25

-

I'm curious what is your sense,

33:26

when you think where we are now

33:28

as opposed to where we were then?

33:30

How would you describe it?

33:32

Has there been progress, has there not been progress?

33:33

What do you think?

33:35

-

Well I think it's just seeing 50%

33:37

of the people in seminaries are women

33:40

and they are now being accepted

33:42

but there's still not a whole lot of senior ministers

33:43

who are women.

33:46

I think Plymouth, just Carla Bailey, I think,

33:48

just went to Plymouth.

33:51

-

Oh okay, yeah.

33:52

-

And that's a big church.

33:53

-

It is, yes.

33:54

-

So there's still that angle.

33:58

It's nice not to hear God always referred to as He.

34:05

-

And that's true at your church.

34:12

And that has been true at your church for a long time.

34:13

-

I think we have done it.

34:16

I bet there's 20, 30 years.

34:18

There hasn't been anything in the bulletin

34:21

that isn't inclusive language.

34:23

But people don't realize it.

34:25

-

Really?

34:27

-

Until somebody brings it up and they get

34:29

all shook up about it.

34:31

-

I'm curious when you say inclusive language,

34:32

do they use feminine language for God

34:34

or is it not neutral?

34:36

-

It's pretty neutral.

34:38

They still say our Father, some of them can't get over that

34:39

but this gal is having our Creator.

34:42

-

The new pastor?

34:45

-

Yeah.

That's written in the bulletin.

34:47

-

And how our people reacting to that?

34:49

-

They're not saying much.

34:54

It's hard for them to do Mother, Father, God.

34:56

That's hard, but a Creator would be okay.

34:59

-

Interesting, yeah, yeah.

35:01

-

But the other things, everything is.

35:05

And then we had one time

35:07

when we had a couple who were there

35:09

who brought up inclusive language.

35:11

Everybody got all shook up about it.

35:12

Because somebody brought it up.

35:16

But when it's just there,

35:19

they don't pay much attention to it.

35:20

-

You said they got shook up about it,

35:22

what happened, what did they--

35:23

-

They didn't like to say that.

35:24

Oh God is the Father, why can't we?

35:27

-

Oh really okay, interesting.

35:30

-

But they didn't realize it was happening

35:32

when it was just happening.

35:34

-

Interesting.

35:35

-

And so people really talked about it.

35:36

-

Interesting, yeah.

35:39

I don't know if you know this, I have a real

35:42

specific question to end with.

35:44

We're working on a website

35:45

and I'm wondering if you have any ideas

35:48

about what would be good to include

35:50

in a Reimagining website?

35:52

-

I think, some of the things like that,

35:57

poetry or things like that every once in awhile.

36:00

-

That's a good idea.

36:03

Are you thinking of ones that were in the quarterly

36:06

or new ones or both?

36:08

-

Either, either way, either way.

36:09

-

Yeah, that's a good idea.

36:11

-

There might be new people writing.

36:12

-

Yes, yes.

36:14

-

But they might be inspirational.

36:15

-

Absolutely.

36:17

-

I guess a lot of references to things

36:23

that you can look to for help in what you're doing

36:26

in your own church or...

36:29

In your own worship.

36:32

-

Like liturgical worship type things, yeah, yeah,

36:34

absolutely.

36:37

-

Stories.

36:41

-

Say some more about stories.

36:43

What are you thinking of?

36:44

-

Stories of where somebody might have gotten

36:49

a real new perception of feminist look of things.

36:52

Life stories like that.

37:00

-

Those are all great ideas, that's neat.

37:04

Genie is there anything we haven't talked about

37:08

that you would like to add.

37:10

(mumbles)

37:16

-

It was just such a big part of my life for

37:20

so many years and it has influenced my life over the years.

37:24

-

Could you say more, how has it influenced your life?

37:28

-

I think spiritually.

37:32

Which...

37:36

Has made me, I try to read each morning,

37:39

some things and...

37:42

Not necessarily bible.

37:46

I think our minister is using something called the Message.

37:50

I'm not sure if I like that one.

37:55

I have to keep looking at that some more.

37:57

I have a copy of it and I wanna see.

38:00

We do a neat thing, we do beverage and bible.

38:02

We go to the local bowling alley

38:06

and have dinner one night a month.

38:07

-

Oh fun.

38:11

-

And then she brings, I guess Garth started it

38:12

and they bring a reading of some kind.

38:15

And then we discuss it.

38:20

It's been, people have liked it.

38:23

There's about 10, 12 people that participate.

38:25

-

That is wonderful.

38:30

-

Each month and it's in a different setting

38:31

and they do a bit of sharing of what's been good

38:33

and what's been bad for the week or the month.

38:37

Some people are getting to know each other better.

38:43

It's off the church property, it's somewhere else

38:48

which is kind of fun.

38:53

-

I wonder if you could say more about

38:56

how Reimagining affected your spirituality.

38:57

-

It just made me wanna read more.

39:02

To think more, to pray more, to...

39:04

Very conscious of worship.

39:10

Some are very inspiring and

39:15

some miss the boat.

39:19

(laughing)

39:21

But it just alerted me to so many more things around me

39:27

that I probably wouldn't be conscious of

39:30

if I hadn't been through some of that.

39:33

-

Well thank you, Genie, this was wonderful.

39:39

-

Good.

39:42

(mumbles)

-

Absolutely, very much so.

39:43

Williams, Genie

Transcript

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Sallie Bingham Center for Women's History & Culture