RL00170-CS-0507_02

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Walter Whitman Twitty	The White companies had two rates, a Black rate and a White rate. And so we had to just deal with our people, period. And they didn't have any Black agents working for White companies at that time. But later on it did. After I had a chance to go to Metropolitan, some of the other companies after I went to LUTC and few other courses and things that, so other things started opening up. But I was with Mutual and I decided that I would not leave Mutual.	0:03
Walter Whitman Twitty	They told me, said, "If you work with us 35 years when you retire, we'll guarantee you 50% of your salary for the rest of your life and we will give you back your Social Security money each month." And I didn't have no better sense to believe it. I worked with Mutual 41 years before I retired. I retired in 1980. And I can say that from '39, with exception of the time I was in the service, I have never missed a payday or check on time with Mutual.	0:34
Walter Whitman Twitty	They lived up to their promise at that time and even now they do. So I bragged to a lot of people that as long as I went for Mutual, my check was never late, never held up, nothing, at no time. And so I said, well I wasn't going to go to no White company or somewhere where I would be a number and be treated every which way. I said no, that's not going to be me. So I just stayed with my people, I worked with my people. And so we service the areas, the people. Matter of fact, North Carolina Mutual finance homes and things for Blacks that could not get loans from White companies and so forth. Up here on LaSalle Street when that housing project was built all down there by the Whites.	1:12
Karen Ferguson	That Fairview Homes or?	2:06
Walter Whitman Twitty	No, this is up here on LaSalle Street going down in that project dynamic on Beatties Ford Road. Metropolitan I think took 10 of those loans, first 10 of the best. And then they shut down on the loans and other Blacks couldn't get loans to buy them homes. Fred Alexander went to Durham and talked with the home office officials about it and the home office officials decided that they would make loans to the Blacks who wanted loans. And we did. We made loans to a whole lot of Blacks in this community, and some Whites too. We didn't segregate so far as that is concerned. We didn't have no White agents working.	2:07
Walter Whitman Twitty	I know several times they asked me, said, "Why you don't have no White agents?" I said, you want to know truth? I said, they don't want to work for Black people. Now, he'll come there if he can be the boss and you be serving for him. I said, but here we run our organizations and if they want come in, they can. I said, now I want to have two people out four, five years being here. One was too old and the other one didn't qualify.	2:51
Walter Whitman Twitty	And so the newspapers didn't come back and ask me no more questions about segregation and all that kind of stuff. I just didn't have them. Well, we bought a company out and it was White and Black and it's over there. We had White and Black agents and matter of fact the White agents, they weren't doing nothing with us. They getting three or $400 a week just collecting a few dollars, doing nothing. And so I was the manager here and I was in control of that office. So I just closed that office down, shut it out and terminated all the White agents. And matter of fact, the Black agents who didn't qualify or didn't want to stay with us could go also. But we service, North Carolina Mutual has come to the rescue of Black people all over the USA. I know in Philadelphia that Blacks couldn't get loans unless there's a second mortgage and all of this.	3:25
Walter Whitman Twitty	And it was that way here for a long time. But we started giving fresh mortgages and things of this sort to our people and we worked with our people throughout the community. And I love Mutual, they've been good to me and I've been good to them. And I get my social security check every month, separate saying social security. And I take that over to the office a lot of time now. And when I'm talking to different groups and so on, I said, here's a promise they made me. And when I retired in 1980, my former manager at that time was there at my retirement. He was 96. And when I retired right down here at Johnson— on the campus at Johnson C. Smith. And so that basically it was my life.	4:25
Walter Whitman Twitty	I have enjoyed people and doing thing for people. I have a garden, I cut my own yard now. August 9th, I'll be 78. I cut my own yard, I grow my flowers, put out my flowers, I got a garden back there. I share my gardening with all the neighbors. I cut greens the other day and gave them to five different old ladies around here in the community. I'm working right now basically helping individuals who need help with their social security and also their hospital claims and things because that's been a real problem, especially for teachers and the Black people.	5:21
Walter Whitman Twitty	And I work with them, a whole lot of them and still doing it. I work with my church, I work with the community. I play bridge, I travel. I'm going to a bridge tournament in Durham this weekend. We'll beat the Army for three days. And I've traveled all the USA and Canada too playing bridge. California high wire. Matter of fact, I be going to Detroit in August the fourth for 15 days to bridge. This is basically what I do and I enjoy.	6:05
Karen Ferguson	Can I ask you a couple more questions?	6:44
Walter Whitman Twitty	Yeah, go ahead.	6:48
Karen Ferguson	How was the Mutual agent scene in all these different communities when you went to work there? Where did the Mutual agent fit into the life of the community and into the entity? How was he seen by customers, by all the other Black people?	6:53
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well, naturally we were working with our guest Black companies, White companies. And there was quite a few we had in this city. We had around 15 Black agents who serviced all these areas. And they were seen and they were pretty well known by the people, and we serviced our people. And however, a lot of them bought the insurance from the White people because a lot of them felt that the White man's ice is colder, the sugar is sweeter. And we were able to show them in a lot of instances that they were paying for rate higher than a Black rate instead of a White rate and so forth. And we didn't ever have any difficulty with the White agents and so forth because see, the insurance department would not tolerate anything of that sort. And our agents was pretty well accepted and received in our communities.	7:15
Walter Whitman Twitty	We tried to maintain and get the best of people and we were very strict on them servicing the people and being honest with the people because I have serviced them a whole lot of people that they leave the money on the outside or on the doormat and things of this sort. I could go in the house, the house is unlocked. I know where to go get my money and all. And so we were very well accepted. And see now when we found an agent who was not honest and didn't treat people right, we get rid of. And so we were able to make it that way because we were very well accepted by our people. Of course, a lot of them that went the other way naturally.	8:16
Karen Ferguson	What kinds of things did you do when you got to these places to let yourself be known to help you in your sales?	8:59
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well our method is this, as an agent, we would go out and pass out pamphlets. We'd go in communities, area where we're going to work. We'd put our pamphlets with our names stamped on it, go and knock on the door, meet people, get acquainted and tell them we'd be back through this area later, we'd like to talk with them. And people won't really deal with it unless they get to know you.	9:11
Karen Ferguson	So how did you get them to know you?	9:45
Walter Whitman Twitty	They know you because you keep coming in there and you keep coming by and you are respectful, you're dressed decent, you act all right, you're not drunk and you're not cussing. The reason came. And so you got a pretty good show. And the people have to get to know you, and then when the people get to know you, they say he's a good man to deal with, so forth like this. And a lot of my sales would come from people just referring me to other people because of the type of service that I render for people.	9:45
Karen Ferguson	Would you join clubs or go to church, that kind of—?	10:19
Walter Whitman Twitty	We all went to church. We insisted our agents go to church. We insisted our agents go to all the funerals. We insisted our agents go to different clubs and whatever's happening in the community and be a part of it. We insisted that if somebody got sick or died, that our agents would pay the claim promptly and that our agents would go and say, don't give this insurance policy to the undertaker. Let us help you fill it out because we can save you money, but we not going to take any of it. Undertaker try to get all of it. And these are services that we really rendered to the public and this is what we displayed.	10:24
Walter Whitman Twitty	We had radio programs on the air and so forth. And we had ads in the paper. And you just work territories and areas until you just get to be known and people would deal with you. And that was my experience over the years. And I contribute that to my not having ever been bothered by anyone because I was always courteous, nice. I spoke to everybody. I didn't have no prejudice, nothing. And I never had any problem anywhere so far as conflict and not. And I didn't carry guns and knives or nothing.	11:06
Karen Ferguson	Were there places in North Carolina where it would've been wise to carry some kind of weapon for a Black man?	11:46
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well I never felt that there was, because one thing, I didn't necessarily go in places. It was predominant White and the people that had drinking beer, liquor, wine, I don't bother them places. You don't go them places. And I learned that in traveling. If I pull into a Philly station, there's a lot of Whites around there and they're drinking and so forth. It don't look right, I don't stop. I just keep on moving. And this is what you learn in dealing with the public and the places that you're dealing with. You get to know people. We teach our agents, you go in places that is decent and stay out that night and don't be going in at night and when people drinking and all this kind of stuff because it's dangerous. And so this is how you learn to deal with the people in the public.	11:57
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. So that was part of the training?	12:48
Walter Whitman Twitty	Oh yeah.	12:52
Karen Ferguson	How did people find out about specific places they were going to Hickory or something like that? How would you find out where was safe and unsafe to go? How would you find that out?	12:54
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well, in each city we had a person who had already established the territories and knew the people and so forth. And you go there and your common sense tells you to go to the places that you've been trained to go to that's decent. And you don't go to places looking for trouble. You don't go to places where they're drinking and party and all this kind of stuff. Now that's not going to— Matter of fact, it's dangerous to do that now anywhere. I don't do that nowhere now because it's too dangerous. And so you just learn to stay away from certain places and just protect yourself and go and do right.	13:09
Karen Ferguson	Where would people stay in the '40s and '50s in places where there was no Black hotel? Where would they stay?	13:57
Walter Whitman Twitty	In homes.	14:04
Karen Ferguson	In homes, who would—?	14:05
Walter Whitman Twitty	People in the community, there's always people who would refer you to maybe the church or We always had contact with good people that lived in all the communities. And they would tell people and they'd get you tell you where you go and get a room to stay. And I lived with some lovely people. I tell you, down in Savannah, Georgia, old lady Mama Seal was just like my mama, a lovely person. Matter of fact, everywhere I went was like that, where I stayed in homes. But finally I got to stay in the hotels, motels, wherever I wanted to and had the money. But it's a matter of the way you carry yourself and the way you deal with people. That's the most important thing.	14:09
Karen Ferguson	What did you like better? Did you like staying in the homes or in hotels better?	14:53
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well, now there's an advantage and there's a disadvantage. In the hotels, you can just about do whatever you want to do. You got your room and you have people go there, entertain, do what they want to do. But in homes you can't do that. You got to respect the homes. And I always respect the people's home just like I did my own. And well, you have to go out so far as if you want to have some fun and go with a girl or something other, take her to the movie or something like that, you go pick her up and take her. But if you in a hotel, a motel, you can invite her to come up to your motel room and things like that. So there's an advantage and the disadvantage.	14:58
Karen Ferguson	What's the advantage, in the home?	15:40
Walter Whitman Twitty	The advantage of the home is the security that you had at that time. The people that you were living with, you'd have to have no fear of being bothered at anyway. It's just like some of the people you say, come on in, the latch is on the outside. And that's where it was. A lot of people didn't have no locks on the doors for a while. And the doors wasn't locked, people weren't doing nothing. People were honest. Very seldom you ever heard about anybody was crooked, but there ain't no more. But now in hotels you had to be very careful and cautious by staying in hotels because you could get robbed or anything could happen to you. But I learned to maneuver and to travel and I would get a room and I didn't waste no time. I didn't waste no time trying to ask a whole lot of questions that people.	15:43
Walter Whitman Twitty	People want to get changed and all this kind of stuff. And flim flamers, you got to learn how to deal with them too. I'm sorry, don't have no money. I don't know. And these people in these cities, they know you just like that. They can tell when you're out of town. I was walking down the street in Chicago, I was working with an agent in Chicago around '64 and on a Friday. And he told me, Twitty said if I was you, I would knock off until Monday because it gets rough on weekends. And these people know out-of-towners, they don't have to ask nothing. They know you, because they say your skin is not toned for this kind of weather and so forth. I've been in nightclubs and things. Say, "Where you from?" I said, "I'm from—." "Oh no you're not, because your skin had been toned for the cold weather in Chicago" and things of this.	16:34
Walter Whitman Twitty	You just learn how to mingle and get with people. And I had a lot of people that give me advice and told me things and looked after me, and I really enjoyed it. And that's an advantage because you had security, you didn't have nothing to worry about. And I had some people that were so nice and they didn't feed me other than they would always want to give me breakfast or lunch or something like that. They wouldn't charge me nothing in homes. And that was my life so far as traveling. And I did travel for seven years all over the country.	17:31
Karen Ferguson	You did some traveling in other parts of the country, it sounds like, before the '60s, with Mutual?	18:14
Walter Whitman Twitty	No, I didn't do too much traveling across the country before that. When I was growing up, I had brothers in New York City that had a business we used to go to. I had a brother lived in Washington. I had brothers, three or four brothers lived in New York and a sister, two sisters. And we used to go up there. On the highways, you'd go in these restaurants and cafeterias and so forth. They just served everybody, they didn't worry about it. And we had no problem. But we didn't go out looking for trouble. We didn't go out hanging out these places wanting to party and all this kind of stuff.	18:23
Karen Ferguson	Why did your brothers and sisters move out of North Carolina?	18:56
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well, there was nothing to do. And so they went north to New York. And so matter of fact, my brothers opened a factory up there, it's called the— That's my mother and father.	19:00
Karen Ferguson	Oh yeah.	19:17
Walter Whitman Twitty	And that's my father. This is my family up in the country. This is me right here. This is my oldest brother and that's his wife. That's the next oldest brother, this one. This is my brother-in-law and that's his wife. They had two children. This is my brother, this is me. This is two of my brothers. The only ones living now is this one, the three of us and my sister. We're the only ones living. So this is when we had a reunion up there at home, some of the families back up there in the country. This is my mother and father. So my aunt in New York and some of my people. This is me when I was a little boy, this is when I graduated from high school. This is when I was in Hickory, 1939. This was in the South Pacific. This is me and three of my brothers. This is some of the families, this is some of the dogs. And this is my brothers here.	19:19
Walter Whitman Twitty	I got five or six album books and I got pictures of everything, everywhere I'd ever been. This is my brothers, they had this business in New York called Rather Curly Hair Conditioning. So this is some of the family. It's my mother, some of the grands. This is my sister, she's now down with cancer. She's up in Rockton, North Carolina. She's 76 years old.	20:36
Karen Ferguson	Was she a beautician?	21:02
Walter Whitman Twitty	She was a hairstylist.	21:04
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	21:06
Walter Whitman Twitty	She traveled all over the United States and they worked. And what they did is, they would cut your hair in a way that you could fix three different styles in one day. And you worked on your job. And this is where she was doing the demonstration. These are some of the girls that worked with her. And these are some of my, this is my mother.	21:06
Karen Ferguson	This was your brother's factory?	21:28
Walter Whitman Twitty	Yeah. They had a factory.	21:31
Karen Ferguson	So the hair, it was for White women's hair?	21:32
Walter Whitman Twitty	For anybody.	21:35
Karen Ferguson	Oh, anybody's hair?	21:35
Walter Whitman Twitty	I got some back there now. Because they all dead and gone. But I got some of the shampoo and everything. This is some of my family here. This is right here in the house when he was two years old in the corner. This is my sister, her husband, so forth. These, one of my teachers, my brothers, and this is sister-in-law. This is my niece. He lived down in Monroe, now moved down to New York. All of this is basically just family. This is me in 1959. That's my sister. This is my wife and my daughter and her family in Richmond. That's just me there, picture of me. This is my son. And that's when I graduated, I mean retired from down here. This is some of the parties that we attended. This is in Durham, when we went down to Durham visiting. This is my grandson. He won the—	21:37
Karen Ferguson	Oh, an art award?	22:45
Walter Whitman Twitty	Yeah, he's going to college next week. He got a scholarship to go for first six weeks. My sister and so forth. This is when my mother died. They were down here. That was my two sisters right there. And this is at my retirement parties as Swank social club. It's my sister. So	22:46
Karen Ferguson	You belong to the Swank Social Club.	23:14
Walter Whitman Twitty	Oh yeah. Belong to all kind of clubs.	23:15
Karen Ferguson	Right. So now that was a club started at Second Ward High School, wasn't it?	23:15
Walter Whitman Twitty	No, this is a club that was started in the community about 60 years ago. There's one original member living now. That's Thomas White.	23:22
Karen Ferguson	I've talked to Mr. White.	23:32
Walter Whitman Twitty	Yeah. Oh you have?	23:33
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	23:34
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well, I might have, let's see. I don't know what I got.	23:35
Karen Ferguson	And so you're a member too?	23:39
Walter Whitman Twitty	Oh yeah.	23:40
Karen Ferguson	When did you join?	23:41
Walter Whitman Twitty	In 1942.	23:42
Karen Ferguson	1942. Why did you join?	23:43
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well, to belong to an organization of young people. This is when I was on the board. This is taken out there in the yard. This is me right here. It was only two members on this board, we had a dinner up there. These are the people who signed, I worked with them four years. That's the Swank social club.	23:46
Karen Ferguson	Oh boy. You said you're going to be away on Friday?	24:21
Walter Whitman Twitty	Yeah, I'm going to Durham.	24:28
Karen Ferguson	We would love this kind of photo. Do you think Mr. White might have a photo of this?	24:30
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well—	24:35
Karen Ferguson	We've got a copy machine and we're copying people's photographs.	24:35
Walter Whitman Twitty	This is my wife and the organization she belonged to. Modern Nets, they're about 50 something years old. I don't know whether Thomas got it or not. This is my agency force. No, this is Swank social club out there, the dance that we had. And this is my daughter here, when she finished from down here with the Delta Airlines, she used to travel there. These are kids. This is my good friend down. This is my son here when he was a kid, here in the house. This is some of the family friends. This is me. This is the party. This is one of the parties that we had, these streams and balloons. This is about last year. So now when this happened. I can ask my wife if she would be available so you could— What time Friday? If you can make it early.	24:39
Karen Ferguson	We have a copy. Well, I can't come too early on Friday. We are going to have another woman come through North Carolina copying photographs. Would it be all right if I gave her your name?	25:42
Walter Whitman Twitty	Yeah, it'd be okay.	25:51
Karen Ferguson	And she'll just copy them.	25:53
Walter Whitman Twitty	Okay. That's when we retired from the Swank Social Club. They had this party, we have a retirement.	25:54
Karen Ferguson	That's Mr White there isn't it, the second guy?	26:02
Walter Whitman Twitty	Let see now, which one was it? This is me and my brother's date. Eight brothers. Right, this is in 1946, where I see White. This is my sister. And this is when my niece got married. She's a doctor now, a dentist down in Durham. And this is my nephew and his wife, all his children. The four Walters. He got one here with the four Walters on it. I got pictures of everywhere I've ever been. This is the Hall of Fame down at Johnson C. Smith. When we had the Hall of Fame down there, I was the financial secretary for them for a period of 17 years. This is one of the first organizations here in the city that dealt with children and support my wife.	26:06
Karen Ferguson	What was that?	27:09
Walter Whitman Twitty	We belonged to this. I can remember the name of this organization. These people live in this community too, the most of them. It was, forget what it was, but it was an organization designed to families to get together and have something for the children to do. This is one of the parties of the Swanks. I saw that one going that way.	27:14
Karen Ferguson	Could I ask you just a couple questions about your growing up?	27:37
Walter Whitman Twitty	Go ahead.	27:40
Karen Ferguson	What did your father do?	27:43
Walter Whitman Twitty	My father was a farmer.	27:48
Karen Ferguson	And what did he farm?	27:51
Walter Whitman Twitty	What did he farm? We grew everything on the farm that we needed to have to eat except sugar and coffee. We had cattle, we had hogs. We grew all kind of, about 110 acres in the farm. And we worked this farm. We killed four or five hogs a year, two or three cattle a year. And we had all kind of fruit trees, fruits and everything. We grew all this kind of stuff. Everything we needed except coffee and sugar.	27:53
Karen Ferguson	Right. You said that you went to a private school?	28:34
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well, I went to several schools.	28:44
Karen Ferguson	But when you were living—?	28:46
Walter Whitman Twitty	Oh yeah. That was over there. It was called Chapel Hill School.	28:50
Karen Ferguson	Right. And why did you go there? Was there a public school for Black children?	28:52
Walter Whitman Twitty	That was it. When I said private, we were the biggest family there. Not many of them. That's why I said it was a private school.	28:57
Karen Ferguson	So there was no other school available for Black—	29:07
Walter Whitman Twitty	Well, there was other schools closer as I told you but because of segregation you didn't go. Remember I told you the bus used to pass me when I was going to high school. And I couldn't go because we didn't go to school at that time. That's our 50th anniversary picture.	29:09
Karen Ferguson	Nice.	29:29
Walter Whitman Twitty	This is the famous group from California came here and visited here at our house and had dinner with us here in our house. Asked my brother and his family. This is when we was in the Bahamas, here. I've been everywhere. Is there any other questions you want to really get around to asking?	29:36
Karen Ferguson	No, that's fine if you're—	29:59
Walter Whitman Twitty	This is something that my brother, I made that under his in Washington at his house. That's some kind of nuts growing there. But I have the pictures of all of our travelers. And with Mutual everywhere else. I just got all kind of Alberts. This is when they made it money for me. When I had a sleep problem, I get to the hospital. I grew these out here in my yard. I had two brothers that was married to White women and they have families and so forth and they've been here. This is a part of my agency force here back during that time. I got these at the retirements. This is the thing of the retirement. That's me when I retired. Say a salute. And you saw that. I think on that.	30:01
Karen Ferguson	I have a few things I have to ask you—	31:23
Walter Whitman Twitty	Go ahead.	31:25
Karen Ferguson	—since your time is limited here. What's your full name?	31:28
Walter Whitman Twitty	Walter Whitman.	31:33
Karen Ferguson	W-H-I-	31:37
Walter Whitman Twitty	T-M-A-N.	31:38
Karen Ferguson	What's your zip code here?	31:42
Walter Whitman Twitty	28216-5412.	31:44
Karen Ferguson	How would you like your name to appear on the tape or in the transcript?	31:51
Walter Whitman Twitty	As WW Twitty. I answer to anything that people call me. And I don't have any problem. Just like I tell people, I say, well, I answer to anything. It doesn't make any difference.	32:01
Karen Ferguson	What was your date of birth?	32:09
Walter Whitman Twitty	August the ninth, 19 and 15.	32:11
Karen Ferguson	And where was it again that you were born?	32:16
Walter Whitman Twitty	In Ruterfordton to North Carolina.	32:19
Karen Ferguson	Now that's R-U-T-H?	32:22
Walter Whitman Twitty	E-R-F-O-R-D-T-O-N.	32:24
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	32:31
Walter Whitman Twitty	D-T-O-N. Rowton.	32:32
Karen Ferguson	What county is that in?	32:32
Walter Whitman Twitty	That's in Ruthford County. Yeah.	32:34
Karen Ferguson	What's your wife's name?	32:37
Walter Whitman Twitty	Samella, S-A-M-E-L-L-A. Twitty.	32:38
Karen Ferguson	And where was she born?	32:44
Walter Whitman Twitty	Right here in Charlotte. Her mother and father lived here all the time. My daddy worked on the railroad. My mother didn't do anything, stay home and take care of the children, right up the street up there.	32:45
Karen Ferguson	What was your mother's name?	33:01
Walter Whitman Twitty	Dovie Twitty.	33:03
Karen Ferguson	D-O-V?	33:05
Walter Whitman Twitty	I-E. Dovie Twitty.	33:06
Karen Ferguson	And what was her maiden name?	33:08
Walter Whitman Twitty	Bryan. Dovie Bryan.	33:12
Karen Ferguson	B-R-Y?	33:15
Walter Whitman Twitty	A-N.	33:16
Karen Ferguson	Can you remember when she was born?	33:18
Walter Whitman Twitty	Are you kidding? Wait a minute. I might be able to tell you that.	33:20
Karen Ferguson	Just let me unclip you here.	33:23
Walter Whitman Twitty	If you want to cut that off.	33:28
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	33:29

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Title:

RL00170-CS-0507_02

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Walter Twitty interview recording, 1993 June 16

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