Earnestine Atkins interview recording, 1994 August 01
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| Tunga White | Testing one, two, three. Mrs. Atkins, before I ask you questions about yourself, can you tell me if you remember your grandparents? | 0:02 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes, I remember my grandparents were very well. | 0:12 |
| Tunga White | What were their names, your maternal and your paternal? | 0:16 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Both my mother's mother is Mrs. Liza Frazier, and my grandfather was Mr. Leon Gardner, on my mother's side. On my father's side is my grandmother is Mrs. Carrie Reynolds and Mr. Freddy Reynolds. My stepdad was Mr. James Singleton. My step grandfather was James Washington. | 0:22 |
| Tunga White | This is on your paternal side? | 0:53 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Mm-hm. | 0:53 |
| Tunga White | Were they all from the area? | 0:53 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They all were from, except my step grandfather. He was from Savannah, Georgia. | 1:01 |
| Tunga White | When did he become your step grandfather? | 1:11 |
| Earnestine Atkins | From the beginning? He was not married to my grandmother, in other words. | 1:14 |
| Tunga White | On your mother's side, what did her parents do for you? | 1:29 |
| Earnestine Atkins | On my mother's side, my parents actually worked the fields on the farm, raise, just sell beans and peas and little garden stuff to take to town and sell it to the neighborhood people. | 1:29 |
| Tunga White | They were land owners? | 1:53 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right. Exactly. | 1:55 |
| Tunga White | Do you know around how much land they owned? | 1:57 |
| Earnestine Atkins | On my mother's side, my grandmother's side, they had owned a 24 acre tract at some point, and they had owned a five acre tract at another point and a three acre tract at another point. There was some more that I don't know about that, that are heirs' property. | 2:00 |
| Tunga White | Do you know if there was any time when they did any renting or shopping in their life, or were they always land owners? | 2:28 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Any renting? | 2:36 |
| Tunga White | Uh, huh. | 2:37 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Like? | 2:38 |
| Tunga White | [indistinct 00:02:39]. | 2:38 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No. During those times they didn't rent land. All the community people could use any property that belongs to the community people. In other words, if you live within a mile or so, if you have some property, you could just ask, "I want to plant some beans. I want to plant some watermelon," and it was just like a shared deal with the community. But no, they never rent and they had enough to farm one. | 2:40 |
| Tunga White | I'm trying to understand this shared community. Who owned the land? The community went together and bought the land? | 3:17 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No. Each land— | 3:24 |
| Tunga White | Owner. | 3:26 |
| Earnestine Atkins | —owner had property but they were adjacent to each other. If you didn't have space on yours and the other family or the other friend were near you that had a cleared piece of property that they always farm, and if they didn't farm it and have space, we could go over and my grandmother could go over, and she could plant a few rows of whatever on their part. It's like shared property, actually. | 3:27 |
| Tunga White | On your father side, what did they do? | 4:00 |
| Earnestine Atkins | My father did the same thing. My grandmother had property too, and they didn't farm so much. They had, we call it fields, gardens, but right around the house. They had probably around the house that we could just plant vegetable for family use and for living. | 4:03 |
| Tunga White | Now each one of your grandparents, how far were they from your house that you were brought up in? | 4:26 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I actually lived right near my father's mother. We lived with her, actually, for a long while until my dad got married and he built his own little house. But that was within two or three miles of each other. | 4:34 |
| Tunga White | How far was the other side? | 4:55 |
| Earnestine Atkins | The other side was really right across the river on another island. It took about five minutes by boat. Walking distance, if you had to walk around, it would, I would say, take about maybe 20 minutes, 30 minutes to walk. | 4:57 |
| Tunga White | Now what island were you? | 5:13 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Warsaw. | 5:15 |
| Tunga White | Your step grandfather James Washington, he was farming, too? | 5:25 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, he wasn't into farming. No, I don't think he was into farming so much. I think family members, when they plant, I think everybody plant together and everybody harvest together. He left and went away to New York. Actually, James Washington is really my father's father, and Freddy Reynolds is really my grandmother's first husband. I had that backwards kind of. In other words, my father was born out of wedlock. | 5:31 |
| Tunga White | Okay. James Washington is your father's fathers. | 6:14 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Mm-hm. | 6:17 |
| Tunga White | [indistinct 00:06:19] first husband. | 6:17 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right. | 6:20 |
| Tunga White | You said he went to New York. Do you know why New York? Did he have relatives in New York? | 6:20 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah, he did have relatives there. He was one of the older relatives himself. But during those times there wasn't any work. During that time, they just moved up north to make a life to live and try to help make money and send it back home for the children. | 6:31 |
| Tunga White | So you know what [indistinct 00:06:54]? | 6:50 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I don't quite remember. I know he work, and I think it's with the transit. I'm not sure. It's either that or the post office. | 6:55 |
| Tunga White | Your parents' full name? | 7:18 |
| Earnestine Atkins | My mother and father, Mr. And Mrs. —because my mother is Mazie Atkins and my father is Ed Atkins. | 7:21 |
| Tunga White | How do you spell Mazie? | 7:27 |
| Earnestine Atkins | M-A-Z-I-E. | 7:31 |
| Tunga White | Your father's name again? | 7:43 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Ed. | 7:43 |
| Tunga White | Now did they have a lot of brothers and sister? | 7:43 |
| Earnestine Atkins | My father was the only son. He had four sisters by his mother, and he took care of all the sisters under him. Even all four of them are living now. | 7:43 |
| Tunga White | Are they still in the area? | 8:05 |
| Earnestine Atkins | One is on outside Helena. One is in Hilton Head now. She moved back three years ago from New York. Two of them still live in New York. | 8:10 |
| Tunga White | How about on your mother's side? | 8:23 |
| Earnestine Atkins | On my mother's side it was just two. It was she and her sister. She had some outside sisters and brothers, but by her mother it was just two of them. | 8:26 |
| Tunga White | I think we were talking about your parents' siblings. You said your mother had a sister. | 8:44 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Had one sister. | 8:53 |
| Tunga White | [indistinct 00:08:54]. | 8:53 |
| Earnestine Atkins | August 7. | 8:53 |
| Tunga White | Did your mother do any work outside of the home? | 8:58 |
| Earnestine Atkins | My mother, yes. My mother was a midwife, and she worked with to the crab factory. She picked oysters. Later in life, she worked in the school system in lunchroom. Generally, she was self-employed, actually, most of her life. | 9:01 |
| Tunga White | Was she a midwife throughout her life and she just did the other work on— | 9:27 |
| Earnestine Atkins | She was a midwife early on when we were very young. When I was born, I think my second brother after me, which is about four years younger than me, I think my mother stopped midwifing then, because this is when the hospital actually were open and you could have babies in the hospital. | 9:33 |
| Tunga White | Around what year was that? | 9:58 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Boy, she midwives up through about 1944 maybe. Up to that point I would say. Because I was born in the hospital, so she didn't deliver. It could be give and take three years more. I'm not quite sure. | 10:00 |
| Tunga White | Did she ever talk about what started her as midwife? | 10:23 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah, people lived so far apart from each other. There was another lady that lived not very far from her, who practiced midwives, and she taught her. People, during those days, had to, since it wasn't a hospital to deliver children, there was babies born, and she just went with her and picked up skills. | 10:27 |
| Tunga White | Like an apprentice. | 10:49 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right. She picked up the skills with her, and she just went into it from that point. | 10:49 |
| Tunga White | Do you know the name of that midwife that she worked under? | 10:49 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes, I do. She's still living, matter of fact. | 11:01 |
| Tunga White | What? | 11:04 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Lillian. What's her last name? It might be Lillian Simmons, but she live in, —That's one person I'd like you to talk with before. | 11:04 |
| Tunga White | Does she live— | 11:16 |
| Earnestine Atkins | She lives right on 21, matter of fact, right on 21. | 11:20 |
| Tunga White | Does she live near [indistinct 00:11:25]? | 11:22 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Mm-hm. | 11:24 |
| Tunga White | Because I know I met some lady. | 11:25 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Okay. | 11:28 |
| Tunga White | I think some of [indistinct 00:11:32]. Because I went to school with one of the—a girl that married one of the sons—her name is Patrice Coney. Now, she's [indistinct 00:11:46]. She got married a couple years ago. | 11:29 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Patrice? | 11:36 |
| Tunga White | She from Mississippi. | 11:36 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Okay. Oh, right. | 11:51 |
| Tunga White | Sing in the choir. | 11:55 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right, I know her. She goes to Brick. She married to— | 11:58 |
| Tunga White | I can't think of his name. | 12:00 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I almost said Leon, but it's Leon's brother, too. How can I not know his name? I'm looking right him. | 12:03 |
| Tunga White | I am, too. | 12:11 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I know. But I know who she —She lives right in Houston. She lives in my community. I live in that community. | 12:11 |
| Tunga White | Oh, wow. [indistinct 00:12:20]. | 12:18 |
| Earnestine Atkins | We call him Boo, but it's not boo. It's something else. Jerome. | 12:21 |
| Tunga White | That's right. That's his name. Yeah, that's right. That's his name. Okay. Did she ever talk much about her experiences as a midwife? | 12:25 |
| Earnestine Atkins | She didn't talk a lot. I guess she did. Yeah, I guess she did, and she didn't to us later on. Yeah, she talked about how she had to walk miles to deliver. Sometimes, when you are a midwife, if you're pregnant, most pregnant mothers usually call or usually send messages to the person who they want to deliver the baby. This is how they did that. If there were five or six midwives, then whichever one they wanted to deliver, then they would send message to that person and tell that person she should be delivering in June, such and such a day, and be on guard, be on notes so when time come. Because sometimes they may have to go in and stay overnight a couple of days at that person's home. | 12:39 |
| Tunga White | What a pregnant woman would do would be consult with the doctor about the pregnancy and then just advise the midwife around the time she was due— | 13:29 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right. Time she was due. | 13:39 |
| Tunga White | —so they could be prepared— | 13:39 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They could be prepared to be there for the delivery. Mm-hm. | 13:41 |
| Tunga White | You said sometimes they would stay more than just the birth day. | 13:46 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right. | 13:48 |
| Tunga White | They would stay [indistinct 00:13:49]- | 13:48 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Stay long because they would have to help them through that whole process. During those time, they had to walk, so they couldn't just go and leave and come back. They had to just be around for a while. | 13:49 |
| Tunga White | Now if there were some kind of complications with the birth, would a doctor then be consulted or they manage some of it? | 14:01 |
| Earnestine Atkins | As far as I know, I think most of the midwives just manage and did what they could. After the baby was born, if there's any complications, then they would somehow try to get the baby to the doctor. But then long time ago, too, there was a local doctor, Dr. Bailey, who was here, who also was a then Helena person, the doctor. He would be the one sometimes to go along with midwives, too, on deliveries. | 14:15 |
| Tunga White | Now did your mother or any other midwives deliver White babies or was it just strictly in the Black community? | 14:57 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, I think just in the Black community, that I know of. | 14:57 |
| Tunga White | You said she also did work at a crab factory. Did she start this after— | 15:02 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, that was ongoing from little children, from on up into, she —That was their livelihood. That was how they —Between the farming and picking oysters and going in the river, that was their livelihood. That's all they knew how to do best. | 15:09 |
| Tunga White | Can you tell me some about the crab and the oyster industry? | 15:29 |
| Earnestine Atkins | In the oyster industry, my father and mother actually were a team. My mother and father were from Jump Street, were always —That was their self-employed business. My dad used to work for the oyster co-op or the oyster factory, which he picked oysters and took it to sell to the factory. She also, on the side, open oysters, shuck oysters and made some sales that way to help keep money in the home. She also went out there with him to pick oysters. That was a job for them. My father was never employed anywhere. Only thing he knew is seafood, oysters, crabs, seasonal. When it's time for oysters, he'd pick oysters all winter. Crab season, he would have his trap and he would take crabs to the crab house. My mother, at the same time, she worked at the crab house, so they used to pick crab. Used to be a business. A crab house we call it. During that time, that employed people to do the crab picking process. She worked there for many, many years. | 15:34 |
| Tunga White | Did she ever mention pay? What would— | 16:53 |
| Earnestine Atkins | During those time, honey, pay was nothing. If they brought home $3 a week, that was good money, because you could take a dollar and do shopping for everything in your house during those days. You would come home with a whole heap of things for a dollar. | 16:57 |
| Tunga White | Did you or any of your siblings also help them? | 17:10 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes, we all did as we grew up from little ones. We just got the water for them and put it in the tub and make the fire, get the wood. We all, from little ones. I would say after five years old. And even younger than that we could go and pull a little limb or something. Everybody assisted in every way that we could. When we got big enough, like five and six, we could really go and get wood from out the fields and just pile it up for them, that kind of a thing. We all were a family unit in terms of helping. If that didn't happen, there was one family member who stayed in the house, just kept the kids in the house while the older ones go outside and help them. | 17:27 |
| Earnestine Atkins | As the years go on, we would shift position. If someone did it this week, the next week, maybe the other person would work. But the ones who really actually did it were the ones who enjoyed doing it most. If I like doing it, then I always help. If I didn't, if I like to stay in the house, then I always stayed in the house. If it got to the point where any discrepancies came in, then we would shift gear, give everyone a chance to do it. Because sometimes, during those times, we say, "This one lazy. Don't like to do a lot. This one like to stay in the house a lot. Why can't I babysit and let the other one?" We shared and shift position as it went on through the years. | 18:14 |
| Tunga White | Now which type of work did you do? | 18:56 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I prefer doing the outdoor work. | 19:00 |
| Tunga White | Really? | 19:01 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I opening the oysters. I prefer making the fire. I prefer helping my mom and dad. That's what I did best. | 19:02 |
| Tunga White | Now, what kind of activities were there for the ones who opted or they were trying to stay home and do the work around the house? | 19:12 |
| Earnestine Atkins | What were the activities? They had to mop the house. Although we had a low-down decrepit house, my mother believed in keeping those floors scrubbed. She believed in keeping that house clean. She believed in washing those clothes in the wash tub. She believed strictly hanging clothes on the line and in order. In order meant all the sheets together, all the towels together, all the panties, all the face cloth, those kinds of —She believe in never mix up the colored with the whites. We always wash all the whites together and then all the darks together. She brought us up that way. | 19:20 |
| Tunga White | So your day would also entail babysitting? | 20:03 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Oh, yeah. | 20:07 |
| Tunga White | And cooking? | 20:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Cooking, babysitting, the whole chunk. Then within that, each one had their own little duties. If I'm to mop the floor, then I wait till my sister clean up. Then I'll mop. Then if it's hot, then everyone would go outside until the floor it's done and dry, because we didn't believe, during those time, if you mop, someone walk over your floor. That would be a fight. You mop that floor, you let the floor dry. Don't you walk on my floor. Those kinds of things. Two person may wash the clothes. One may wash and the other may hang up, rinse, hang up. And we shift that position. | 20:09 |
| Tunga White | You have brothers, right? | 20:49 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes. | 20:50 |
| Tunga White | What did they do? Did their own—? | 20:52 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They were always outdoor—ones who help outdoors. They were always, and they were in the river with my dad. They were always on the farm, in the fields, all of that. | 20:52 |
| Tunga White | Now, where was this crab house? | 21:07 |
| Earnestine Atkins | In Port Royal. Please do. | 21:09 |
| Tunga White | Now, how would they get there? | 21:18 |
| Earnestine Atkins | During that time, I believe, if I can remember, seem like they had people to pick up people at points or people used carpool. Before that, some people used to just walk. If they lived in the neighborhood, they would walk. During those times, too, they probably rode them buggies or horse carts. | 21:24 |
| Tunga White | As a young child, do you remember if different people in the area you lived in had cars or was it just a couple people? Do you know? | 21:55 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Way back there was just a couple of people. Just a couple of people, and those people transported other people around to do a lot of things. Yeah, I remember on my mother's side family, there was one guy, one man in the family who had a car. During those time, it wasn't like the male of the community, but he was a key person in the community. Everyone in that community looked at him for support. He was the one who took them to the boat landing to get on a boat to go shop, to Beaufort. When they bring their packages back, he would be the one to take them home. He would be the one who would plant a lot of vegetables and whatever, and he would share with the whole community, the whole area. People just look up at him as the key person, too, for support. But he was the one who pulled the whole community together. | 22:06 |
| Tunga White | What was the name? | 23:12 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Ramsey Gardener, I believe. To make sure, I need to probably get that name to you at a later date. Go on. | 23:17 |
| Tunga White | Now, how is he related to your mother? | 23:26 |
| Earnestine Atkins | He was my mother's little boy. My mother and father was his brother. | 23:32 |
| Tunga White | Okay. | 23:35 |
| Earnestine Atkins | It was my mother's uncle. Something like that. | 23:35 |
| Tunga White | Now, did a lot of people in the area that you lived make a living— | 23:59 |
| Earnestine Atkins | All. Practically— | 23:59 |
| Tunga White | —with that seafood [indistinct 00:24:00]? | 23:59 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Practically all of them. Practically all of them in the community, off the farm and working on other people's farm. | 24:02 |
| Tunga White | Would you say, in the area that you were raised, there were more subsistent farming or large scale farming by the people? | 24:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | There were more consistent, I should say, because everybody had their own little property that they plant their own little thing and then food for them. During those times, I remember they had little trucks that come and would buy tomatoes, and everybody plant their own fields and pick their own things and sell it to that truck. | 24:17 |
| Tunga White | Can you describe the house that you were raised in? | 24:51 |
| Earnestine Atkins | It was a little two room house, the first one before the storm. One bedroom and a kitchen, very small, at that point, when I was born, with a wood stove. I remember we used to sleep. My mother used to pad the floor and some of us would sleep in the bed with her and dad, whatever space we had, as at that time the family wasn't as large. Since then, we built another four room house, built five with the bathroom. There was three bedrooms, a living room, dining room, kitchen. | 24:58 |
| Tunga White | Now, is— | 26:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | We lived there for a long time. | 26:09 |
| Tunga White | That first house, when did you all move out that place? | 26:11 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Gee. Mm. | 26:11 |
| Tunga White | You said before before a storm? Before a storm? | 26:19 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Boy, I wish your mom was here, because she could tell you verbatim. Probably she wouldn't mix that around, because she tells us all the time. When the 1940 storm came, my —Oh gosh, my brother was 1940. I wasn't born yet, as I remembered. My oldest brother —Was he older than me? My oldest brother was just born. Yeah, either right then or right after that, because I know he escaped the storm somehow. That's when the first house before the little one I told you was, when my grandmother was. That one was destroyed. Then they built this other little one that I was living in. Now, we were little children. They had a storm before that. But the 1940 storm was the biggest storm that destroyed lives of people. | 26:20 |
| Tunga White | That was a hurricane? The big one? | 27:28 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Mm-hm. Hurricane. | 27:38 |
| Tunga White | That first house, the two room house that you mentioned first, how many people lived in there? | 27:39 |
| Earnestine Atkins | My mother, my father, my two oldest sister and me, because I had two more siblings, but they didn't live with us. My oldest brother at the time lived with my grandmother, and my third oldest sister lived with my grandmother. It was my oldest sister, my second oldest sister and me. | 27:44 |
| Tunga White | Now which grandmother was this? | 28:14 |
| Earnestine Atkins | That's my mother's mother. | 28:16 |
| Tunga White | This is both of the brother and the sister? They both lived— | 28:20 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Lived with my grandmother, my mother's mother. | 28:25 |
| Tunga White | Why were they there? | 28:27 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They were with the grandmother because my mother and dad used to go out a lot in the fields and the river, and they didn't have anyone to keep the kids. My grandmother didn't have anyone to —She was like the person that stayed home, so she kept all the children. From her two children, she kept all the oldest children. So all the older children from her two children, she actually raised. It was during that time that they just had to get out and work, so she kept them because she really —They all had a house. They left from my grandmother's house, so they had a place to go. When my mother met my father, she was living with my father's mother. So there wasn't really a lot of room there for the children to stay. So my grandmother asked her to let her keep the kids over there because my mother was working and helping my dad in the river. | 28:29 |
| Tunga White | Can you describe the condition of your first house you mentioned in the second one? Very good? Good? Poor? Half dead? | 29:33 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Okay. The first house was, like I said, a two room house. It was a strong little house, but it was because we lived there for a while, it got weak and we knew we had to move. We stayed there until my dad could build another. More space, let's put it that way. This is when he moved from the little house, like maybe from here to down the street to another house. He built that one. This house was a strong little house, actually, the second house, that I can remember, the three bedrooms. My sister and my brother never really came back to live with us, but this is when my mother had another child. So we all moved in there because she was pregnant and needed more space. My dad kind of built that because of the extension family. | 29:42 |
| Tunga White | Now, what school did you attend? | 30:45 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I attend St. Helena Elementary School and High School. At that time it was a elementary and high school. Matter of fact, I started there the first year was built, in 1953. I started the very first year when Penn Center closed here. When the school started, then I started my very first class. We were the first ones to have gone from first grade through high school at that school. We were the first class to graduate from that school, for 12 years. | 30:50 |
| Tunga White | Then your oldest siblings, what schools did they go to? | 31:23 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They all went to St. Helena. They all went there. Everybody in the family graduated from St. Helene except for my two baby brothers, I believe. I'm not sure if my baby sister graduated. She may have graduated from another school. But the first six, I believe, the six of the children —Children are Betty, Bell, me, Ida. Ida. I think the first six of us graduated, went 12 years, or the first five. My oldest brother didn't finish school, so it would be five. But the five of us graduated from St. Helena Elementary. The other, Mary, Ricky, [indistinct 00:32:19]—The other five went there until they —During that time, they was switched from junior or elementary school. Then they had to be transferred to Beaufort High School. So during the high school, the other set of fam— | 31:28 |
| Tunga White | During integration went. | 32:37 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right, exactly. | 32:38 |
| Tunga White | You said your oldest brother didn't finish school. | 32:44 |
| Earnestine Atkins | He didn't. | 32:45 |
| Tunga White | He stopped and worked? | 32:45 |
| Earnestine Atkins | He had to work. He had to work. He had to work to support us. | 32:47 |
| Tunga White | What age or what grade did he stop? | 32:48 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I never knew that. I believe Joe stopped in the 10th grade. I'm not sure, but I need to —Let me make sure of that. I never really asked him that. | 32:53 |
| Tunga White | He worked with the family or worked out [indistinct 00:33:11]? | 33:04 |
| Earnestine Atkins | He worked with the family. He actually worked on Warsaw with my grandmother, with the family, through the waters, on the waters somehow. Gosh, that's been some days. I've hadn't never talked to him. | 33:10 |
| Tunga White | That's what everybody says. [indistinct 00:33:31]. | 33:27 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah. | 33:44 |
| Tunga White | Now, can you recall some of your teachers you had when you were young? | 33:44 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Oh, yeah. I can recall [indistinct 00:33:46]. My very first year at St. Helena, I had a Ms. Shepherd and Ms. Devore, Ms. Henderson. They were some of the best teachers in the world. Matter of fact, my first grade teachers are still living. | 33:47 |
| Tunga White | Really? | 34:06 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Mm-hm. A couple. One of them died three, four years ago. But right now I still communicate with my first year teachers. | 34:08 |
| Tunga White | That's cool. Can you think of other elementary teachers? | 34:18 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Those ones stuck in my mind more than the others, actually. I remember my grammar school, my mid school teachers. I remember all of them. I know all of them now. They all are living now. | 34:29 |
| Tunga White | Can you name some of the middle school teachers? These are your middle school teachers? | 34:41 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah, like 6th, 7th, 8th. Yeah. Mr. Boyd, Mr. Young, Mrs. Faulkner, Mrs. Hudson, Mr. Beasley. | 34:49 |
| Tunga White | [indistinct 00:35:05]. | 35:02 |
| Earnestine Atkins | That's him. He was my principal. | 35:06 |
| Tunga White | Okay. [indistinct 00:35:10]— | 35:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Mm-hm, Mr. Beasley. Oh, boy. Mrs. Matthew. I'm only talking local folks now. Mr. Felix, did I give you that one? | 35:14 |
| Tunga White | Nope. Is that Wesley? | 35:24 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Wesley Felix, mm-hm. | 35:24 |
| Tunga White | Did— | 35:28 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I could name some older folks that are dead now. I mean teachers. | 35:47 |
| Tunga White | That's fine. | 35:51 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Mrs. Boyd, the deceased one, Mrs. Boyd. Mrs. —Gosh. Mrs. —Oh, she just came to mind. Mrs. Boyd. Mrs. Fripp. All the old I remember very well. Mrs. Washington. Gosh. Mrs. Henderson, I gave you that one? | 35:52 |
| Tunga White | Uh, huh. | 36:23 |
| Earnestine Atkins | She's deceased. Gosh. Gosh. I'm trying to vision back into those classrooms. Mr H. Gosh. Those ones stuck out in my mind most, because I just had good, good, good thoughts with them. | 36:25 |
| Tunga White | Did any time you were going to school, did they ever have home visits or did the teachers ever come your home to [indistinct 00:37:12]? | 37:01 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah, they did. Matter of fact, some of those ones were people who lived in the community. So they had no choice. During those times, to be real honest with you, if something happened at school, I don't know how they knew, but by the time you got home that evening, my parents knew and they would give you a good behind cutting that would last you until you got to them. Then you didn't have to go home to your parents. You could just go to a sitter or to a neighbor, to a aunt or uncle or to another parent's home until your mom come home, and they would also cut your behind. When you get home —It seemed like there's something in the air that sends a message. I'm serious. When you get home, she said, "Now child, what you did today?" "Mom—" "Don't you lie to me." | 37:13 |
| Tunga White | Oh, my goodness. | 37:59 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Then it was, "Come here. Go get that switch. Go over there and get that switch, and you bring that switch here." She would take that and she would give us a good one. Now said, "Next time something happen, don't you ever come home and tell me a lie. I can see. I can look in your eyes and tell you did something." They had the wisdom. I don't how [indistinct 00:38:18] yet. | 38:02 |
| Tunga White | They had a good system going. | 38:17 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Don't miss and tell. Don't miss and another parent tell my mom and I didn't tell her and I lied to her. Oh man, punished during those days weren't punished like now. They were different kind of punished. They were bad punishment, but they weren't abusive. You know what I'm saying? | 38:21 |
| Tunga White | Mm-hm. Now, in your family, who was the disciplinarian? | 38:39 |
| Earnestine Atkins | My mom. | 38:41 |
| Tunga White | You mom? | 38:41 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Mm-hmm. My mom always. | 38:43 |
| Tunga White | Did your father ever get on to you? | 38:46 |
| Earnestine Atkins | My dad got on me, but not as much. My dad whipped me real good one time, and I had needed a whipping for that, because I really was out of hand. But my dad whipped me once. But my dad never, never wanted to do that. My mother was always the discipline person in the family. | 38:48 |
| Tunga White | Did she discipline all the children, male and female? | 39:07 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Everyone. Didn't matter. Big, little, or small, I don't care. She disciplined all of them. | 39:07 |
| Tunga White | Around what age did the whipping stop, did she no longer whip the children? | 39:12 |
| Earnestine Atkins | When we got, I would say, in high school. I would say in high school. | 39:19 |
| Tunga White | Did— | 39:22 |
| Earnestine Atkins | But I tell you what. | 39:29 |
| Tunga White | What? | 39:29 |
| Earnestine Atkins | The whipping got stopped in high school, but even —My mother died. It was three years, this past March. Up until, I guess, about six months before that, I would never do anything wrong in her eyesight. I would never curse, do anything wrong. I was grown. I was at least good 44. I would never do anything. I would never let her hear me say anything wrong or lie about anything or do anything that I know, because she always knew. Like I said, I had a boyfriend. I was grown, out of college, finished everything. I would never —And I live alone. I live like right from here to that building from my mom. I would never let my boyfriend come to my house and, say, stay overnight, or I'll never let her see him come to the house hardly. I would just- | 39:30 |
| Tunga White | As an adult? | 40:28 |
| Earnestine Atkins | As an adult. | 40:30 |
| Tunga White | When you were a grown woman taking care of yourself? Grown, you still— | 40:30 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I don't know. It was just something she instilled in us when we were very young. I think that's why they had never gotten pregnant, because my mother used to drill us and she used to say to us, "If you get pregnant —If you look at a man, you're pregnant." | 40:35 |
| Tunga White | What? | 40:51 |
| Earnestine Atkins | She said, "If you even touch one, you had your baby." I'm serious. That thing just, I went to college with it in my mind. But she always said to us, she says, "I had children when I was young, because that was something to do. We didn't have nothing to entertain us. We didn't have no place to go. But we had fun, because we could go to each other's home and we could have little parties here and there. And this is how we met our men. We used to go to games. We used to walk to ballgames. We walked down the road and you meet up into a friend to get a kiss, a hug and get a little teasing, go about your the business. No one ever knew." | 40:52 |
| Earnestine Atkins | She said they knew they did wrong in those days, but to them it wasn't wrong because that was their life. But since we came up, a lot of opportunities are there for us, so it's so much easier. She didn't want us to fall into those same footpath that they went through, so she tried to teach us the things. She said, "I really want you to go to school." She said, "I didn't have the opportunity to," but they knew education was important, but they just didn't know how to do it, and they couldn't do it because they had to work for survival. | 41:32 |
| Tunga White | How about education did your mother have? | 42:05 |
| Earnestine Atkins | My mother went to the 10th grade, and my father went to eighth grade, or either six and eight, or eight and 10, something like that, one or the other. But they had that wit. They had that strength, and they had that wisdom to know about family, rearing of children. During those times, it could have been abusive, but they didn't kill us. They taught us, in their talking, right from wrong. We understood that. We knew when they say do something, we knew to go and do it. We knew if they look us like, they knew if we looked them in the eye like this, they knew they met business. If they had company, they knew if they interfere with our— | 42:20 |
| Speaker 1 | [indistinct 00:42:58]. | 42:57 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I'll tell you. It's mine. | 42:58 |
| Speaker 1 | Okay. [indistinct 00:43:04]. | 43:03 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Thank you, baby. It's mine. | 43:03 |
| Speaker 1 | Got it. | 43:04 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Thank you. They knew if they had company, if we came to interrupt them, they knew if they just —that, we knew. We knew just to go back and wait. We knew if we had dinner, if we had company at the house, we knew if they fed us first before the company come, they knew we'd better not come back until they leave. Or if we knew that they were feeding them, especially the pastor, if we had fried chicken —We didn't have all those good luxury things in those days. That was a delicacy. When the pastor go, we eat what left. That kind of a thing. But they fed us. They made sure we ate. You see what I'm saying? We may not have gotten a nice dinner fried chicken, that drumstick. We may have gotten a neck, or we may have gotten a wing, or we may eaten the back, but we knew. But we knew the custom. | 43:05 |
| Speaker 1 | That's good. | 43:57 |
| Earnestine Atkins | We knew the value. We understood all those things. We never questioned it, because we just knew it's just something that happened. | 43:57 |
| Tunga White | Would you say they were very strict? Your parents were really strict compared to other children's? | 44:12 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I think they were strict then, way much 20 years ago. They were certainly much stricter than it is now. But they were strict, but at the same time was disciplined for it. It was teaching us values and customs and way of life. Had not that happened to me, I don't think I would've been where I am today. I knew I think I would've gone astray. Because all those things that they instill in us, it's really still within me. I'm glad of that, because I know how to maneuver myself and I know how to make judgment and to do things, what's appropriate and what's inappropriate for me. But it ha have for that, I think I really would've gone astray, because I could vision myself. I could vision my brother, and I can vision my daughter, the generation gap. You see what I'm saying? That's totally different between the three. | 44:16 |
| Earnestine Atkins | The kids coming up with everything that they have it at hand, they never thought those things were never there 30 years ago. They thought those things were always there. See, when I came up, we didn't have those things, so it was not a part of me. Even now, I don't watch TV very much. Just the news and little things are special that comes on. I'm just not into that. Whereas, my daughter— | 45:23 |
| Tunga White | You're more so [indistinct 00:45:46]— | 45:45 |
| Earnestine Atkins | —more so into all —Exactly. But this is one of the special things I would look at from a long time ago. I would look at that. That would entertain me. See what I'm saying? There's a lot of value there. | 45:45 |
| Tunga White | Your [indistinct 00:46:14] would you say? Would your parents [indistinct 00:46:14]? | 46:13 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Their parents had the same kind of values as they, kind of customs, the same kind of traditions, the same. Because, during those time, families worked together. Families took care of families. What my cousin or what my friend family would say or do, my family would do the same thing for them. In other words, if my mother didn't see me in two or three days, I could be with a family. She was okay, because she knew that family would have the same kind of rules and regulation that she had, because they all used to unite and communicate with each other. And they all had the same kind of community thinking. And— | 46:14 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Family took care of family. I don't care if I were at a mile or two miles away from my house, family took care of family. | 0:01 |
| Tunga White | If something might happen where mother died, one of the household's in the community, would the other families be there to rally to support them? | 0:07 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They would go to the homes, they would take food to the homes. They would assist in any way possible. Most time when that happens, that's a good reunion. I would say everybody from the community, the chicken, the dogs and everything, everybody come together. I mean that's just how it worked. | 0:18 |
| Tunga White | Would sometimes different families take in the children if things happen? | 0:48 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Mm-hmm. Yeah. Matter of fact, different family, they would never let the child go out of the family too. During that time there was no such thing as foster care and whatever. There would always be another family member that was take over that family, those children. And doing, I think that how foster care seems to came about to me in a sense of speaking, because if my cousin, if my grandmother child died and company would come over there, then another family member would take in those children just to not have a lot of children around during funerals and during wakes and stuff like that. They would say, "Okay, you all sent all children to my house and I'll watch the kids while you all go to visit, reap with the family." | 0:48 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Then during those times, they used to have these things in the home. They didn't have parlors, they didn't have the funeral parlors and stuff. They used to have wakes and the body in the homes, in the living room of the house. So in those days. I'll never forget my grandmother living room. | 1:36 |
| Tunga White | So you had it in the home of person that— | 2:04 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Deceased. Yeah. | 2:04 |
| Tunga White | And was it [indistinct 00:02:05] similar to the wakes we have now? | 2:04 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Very similar. Matter of fact it was more spiritual then than it is now, to me. There was a sacred something about wakes and burials than it is now. Now it's more, I would say, sophisticated in a sense of speaking. | 2:09 |
| Tunga White | Does it seem more like these days it's more like a drive through process? | 2:27 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah. It just doesn't have that stickability, just don't have that realism to it. You see what I'm saying? It's really difficult doing a wake, man, people used to walk for miles and used to be a—People didn't talk while they were mourning. People would just pray and sing and do spirituals and all those kinds of things. And it was a sacred moment. It was a sacred day. It's just different. | 2:31 |
| Tunga White | Now, you said that at that time, you didn't have funeral homes to take care of [indistinct 00:03:14]. What kind of process would after the death of somebody. Can you kind of walk me through the process from the death to the actual burial? | 3:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | As I can remember, the wake would be at the home, the mortician—We had morticians during those time, as I remember, when I was born. But being that they didn't have a lot of cars and things, the mortician would come, they would fix the body up at the home, and then they would put them in a casket box, whatever and they would set everything up right there at the home. And then after that which they would take it from the home to the grave site, and then they would have a little service there and then six feet under. | 3:22 |
| Tunga White | Now what kind of time period are we talking about? From the time of death until the wake, how long would the body sit for people to view and then— | 4:05 |
| Earnestine Atkins | The body would sit—Gosh, let's see if I can remember. The body would sit, I know for all day in the home of the wake. Even overnight, I can remember some. And then someone at some point, they would take them away. Then they would bring them back. And gosh, my last one I remember was my grandma, who was in the house. And people came around to view, have spiritual prayers and things like that, and they kept the body there and took the body straight to the graveyard and had it buried. It seemed like prior to that, they used to leave the body overnight in the house, it seems like. Ask someone else that and make sure, but I think [indistinct 00:05:21] to leave the body in the house overnight. | 4:21 |
| Tunga White | Did they have hearses back then like they do now? How would they transport the body from house to the funeral? | 5:20 |
| Earnestine Atkins | From my time, they had hearses, like one or two, my time. But my mother could tell they me, they used to have horse with a wagon and they would put the body on the wagon and bring it on the cart. Take it that way. | 5:29 |
| Tunga White | So you said they would, in your mother's day, use a horse? | 5:48 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah, horse and buggy. Horse and buggy type thing. Yeah. | 5:52 |
| Tunga White | I wanted to jump back to something you mentioned earlier. You were talking about the things your mother would tell you about boys. Did you court, growing up? | 5:55 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah. No, I really didn't. I really didn't a lot. Honestly, I didn't. I really didn't. I remember when I was in the sixth grade and a guy had liked me, he was in the eighth grade. Now, remember I was at, called elementary high school, but we were all together, cross the fence and I remember this guy used to send messages with another, his cousin with me. We used to talk across the fence distance, you see what I'm saying? Or see each other. That was as most as we could, just kind of talk and say, "You got my note?" Kind of thing and that kind of thing. And even when I was in the eighth grade, he was in a 10th grade. During those time, we like junior prom and I remember this guy took me to the junior prom and we had liked each other, let's say, from the sixth to that time, and there through high school, when I finished high school, kind of. And he and I went to the prom, junior prom and we didn't even know what to do. | 6:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I mean if we could've gone and had sex, we didn't even know what to do. And we didn't. Throughout those whole years, we never, even up until today. That same guy, we still admire each other, but it's not an intimate relationship. It's just that we know that we liked each other when we were younger and we never had any connection in terms of sex. We always say we owe each other ourselves to at least go out one time, but we never did. But now, we have become very good friends until—Now, he's now married and has grown children who are married. | 7:11 |
| Earnestine Atkins | But we can now talk about that, and he can talk to me about his personal problems and his girlfriends that he has, them type things and 'cause we all in the same organization, he's amazing, I'm a star. So we can talk about those things now. But we respect each other, and people would think honestly that we probably may have something going on, because when we are together we laugh and we talk and we kind of talk about things that people don't understand and why were we sweethearts and why we not now, but then you're so close? That kind of thing. | 7:46 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I went to college—I didn't have a boyfriend through high school. One guy I did like when I was in 11th grade, 11th through 12th grade, and he was—Well, he was going to Robert Small School in Beaufort now. But we lived closer together, because I lived in Ladies Island, he lived in Ladies island. But we went to different school. The boundary line changed, and he and I never had a sexual or real intimate relationship either, other than just my mother used to operate a juke joint, and we used to meet that talking and call ourselves seeing each other through that. But even through that, from what my mother taught me, he and I really have not really gotten sexually involved because of my teaching my mother gave me. And then he was a year out of school before me, so he left and went into the military, and so he and I just lost out on that, with that relationship. | 8:23 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I ran into another guy, and this is in '68, '69, who was in the Marine Corps, and we dated each other for 14 years. That was really my first opportunity to say, to really date and go out and know what life was more. | 9:27 |
| Tunga White | A real type relationship. | 9:42 |
| Earnestine Atkins | A real type relationship. That was the only first time. And that was really almost after college, actually. I met a young man in college my first year, second year there, and he was to the technical college, I was to the college. So during that time, it was strict there, because they have these matron that watches you in the dorm and you— | 9:44 |
| Tunga White | Just like a mother, huh? | 10:07 |
| Earnestine Atkins | That's right, you have to keep your barrier there, and when you have company, then either you sit in the dormitory space that you have company, or you be out in the yard, in the field, with the trees, in eyesight, in vision that they can see you. So that wasn't a relationship. So I didn't too much have a relationship with him. So he left, and he went in the army, and after that, a year after, he got married. So I really didn't have a lot of intimate sexual relationship. Then I always kind of preserved myself from that same teaching my mom taught me. And for whatever reason, I thought really if you talk to a guy, you would get pregnant. And if you kiss him, I mean I just knew I was pregnant. So I kind of back off. | 10:09 |
| Tunga White | Let me ask you. Okay, your courting, so you didn't do any courting really when you were growing up in your mother's household. Was that because she didn't allow that, or it's just your mindset that you just didn't want to get involved with a man? | 10:53 |
| Earnestine Atkins | It was really both. My mother deeply didn't really allow that. Really. And if we did, we had to sneak. You see what I'm saying? And when you have to sneak, you didn't get the opportunity, because she always kept you in a place where you can't—She always kind of know where you are kind of thing. 'Cause we really never went out a lot, say "I'll just go out with the girls." Or just leaving home, walking and going. We really never did a lot of that, because she always kind of kept tabs on us. Now she was strict in her own way, but we had opportunities. But then because she taught us so well, I utilized my opportunity to my best advantage. I just figure what her word was, was God giving words. I just kind of been mindful of what she said. So I just got to back off on a lot of things. | 11:13 |
| Tunga White | Now, was she like this with all your siblings? | 12:05 |
| Earnestine Atkins | All of them. Except for the younger ones. My youngest sister—The last four, I should say. Or the last five. Things change. | 12:07 |
| Tunga White | Why did things change? | 12:19 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I have a sister that's a year younger than me. In between her and my brother is a gap. There's like five or six years drop in children. Then she started off again. You see what I'm saying? So that little generation had different— | 12:25 |
| Tunga White | She mellowed. | 12:44 |
| Earnestine Atkins | That little last group kind of had more— | 12:46 |
| Tunga White | And it was a different time. | 12:50 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right. Different time and things bloom and things change. And they had more, and they did more. Opportunities began to spread and they did just did more. 'Cause what now, what right now I would've done in my mother house when I was my brother's age, when I was his age, I could never do what he's doing now. I could never take a boyfriend to my house. I couldn't even never take a boyfriend to my house and say "He sleep with my brother and I sleep with—" T. | 12:50 |
| Tunga White | That wasn't good enough either. | 13:19 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, no, not then. Not my time. But since that last generation came, they did that, because all of them brought their girlfriend home with them and the girlfriend couldn't sleep with them. She would never allow that. Never. Even me, I don't do that now. We'd never allow that. But at least they could sleep with a family member. You see what I'm saying? | 13:20 |
| Tunga White | As long as it wasn't in the room together. | 13:40 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Exactly. And right now, I don't play. | 13:42 |
| Tunga White | When you look back at that, you're [indistinct 00:13:55] experiences because of your mother's [indistinct 00:13:57], her teachings, college, [indistinct 00:14:01]. | 13:47 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Has a lot to do— | 13:54 |
| Tunga White | Do you feel that you were cheated out of kind of growing up and experimenting with things even in the colleges? | 14:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, I don't feel I was cheated, because I felt if I really was mischief enough to decide, "Well, let me see what she really mean. I shouldn't do this. Going do it anyway." I could have done that, because I did have opportunities now., In my last year of college, I was on campus, I had my own car. I could go and do anything I want. Now, I really got grown then. I really got grown. But still within my heart and soul, I still monitor myself. | 14:13 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I mean, I went out to the clubs every night, played cards, did this, rage drop, everything. The whole works. I mean I was wild. But still within my heart and soul that something was there that didn't allow me to do that. Another thing that really triggered me off is that the same first boyfriend I told you I had, he was in eighth, I was sixth. There was a group of them that lived in a small community down this way, and they would call themselves the bad guys. You know what I'm saying, bad guys. They could have any woman they want. They could date anybody, they could do anything to woman. | 14:48 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And those things get out. And he was a part of that connection. They used to call themselves the Four F's because of calling, "Find them, Fool them, Fuck them, and Forget them." | 15:26 |
| Tunga White | They were bad. | 15:39 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right. And when I heard about that, that sent a message. And I said, "Well, hey look, he's with that group, but he ain't going to never have the opportunity to do—" And that within itself hindered me to do a lot of things, even when I went to college. And I used to goes, my mother always said, "Take care of yourself. You never know what's out there." And that was just a mental block that I had this, so I really was very extra careful. Now, mind you, I had plenty of opportunities with men, 'cause I was real— | 15:42 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Oh man, I had a little bottle there. And I used to play ball and I used to dance. I used to get off and I knew I could catch them, but it was just something there that I just never let myself go with men. I just didn't. I can't understand it for the world. I could've been married four or five times. Never been married a day of my life. Never. I just didn't. I traveled a lot and through my job when I got out of college. I used to be on the road all the time, do workshop training, do training, those kind of things. Lot of men. Men my father's age who wants to go to bed with me, you see what I'm saying? | 16:16 |
| Earnestine Atkins | But I just always kept that low profile with them and it's all because of my mom. And I'm glad today, because those things come back. You see what I'm saying? And yeah, you remember, I had a man told me he's working in the statehouse right now, in Columbia. He said [indistinct 00:17:20], "I remember you were so petite. Remember that time we went to that meeting in such and such a place and you had said something and I think [indistinct 00:17:27], and that was kind of telling me was all right if you and I can get together." And I remember it very well. I remember it specifically very well. And I did indicate to him that maybe it could have been a way that we could have gotten together. But in that same breath, I portrayed that, but I really deeply in my heart didn't mean that, and it never happened. | 17:00 |
| Earnestine Atkins | So he always remembered that. He said, "Yeah." He said, "You owe me one too." But I'm glad because people, I just don't like people to say, "Well Earnestine, I've been there. I know what—" It's just a mental block. [indistinct 00:18:07]. And I just have a problem with that. I don't want men, especially, to think that, "Hey look, I know what she's all about." I don't even want them to have the opportunity. And I think that has a lot to do with even my now relationship. So I have a friend, but I don't go out the way to entertain a lot of men, because a lot of people respect me in a lot of ways. And they think, "Well hey, Earnestine is such and such and I know I can go in when I get ready. I know I can get into her pants when I get ready." And I just don't let them get that opportunity to do that. I let them respect me fully. I let them want it. Not get it and know. You do [indistinct 00:18:50] what I'm trying to say? Yeah. Okay. | 17:50 |
| Tunga White | So when did you [indistinct 00:19:09]. When did you find out the truth about [indistinct 00:19:09]. | 19:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | In college. | 19:09 |
| Tunga White | [indistinct 00:19:10]. | 19:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Really, really, in college. | 19:09 |
| Tunga White | Were there, when you were growing up, were there girls your age that were getting pregnant? | 19:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Not too many. There were some, yeah, there were some, now, but fewer than more. | 19:20 |
| Tunga White | Okay. What age would you say that [indistinct 00:19:41]? Early to late teens? | 19:31 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I would say 16, 17? Yeah. | 19:40 |
| Tunga White | And what would happen if a girl gets pregnant? As far as the community dealing with her and everything. | 19:49 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They would drop out of high school and—First of all, drop out of high school. Most of them would go away. Just leave town, have the baby, and just come back later on in life. General. The others who had babies just didn't come back to school. They just kind of went to night school years after. The majority of them just went away, actually. | 19:57 |
| Tunga White | Would they go live with relatives? | 20:27 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Relatives up north. | 20:29 |
| Tunga White | What was the church's take on that? If one of the girls that go to the church got pregnant? What the church do? Did they do anything or just— | 20:41 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Well, if you are a member of the church when you got pregnant, then you would have to, when you have your baby, you have to go back to the church and ask for something like forgiveness. Well, I'm not sure we call it that. But you ask, if you want to come back, you would have to go up to the body of the church and said something like you have made a mistake and out of wedlock and you wanted to come back to your church. And then the church would have to yes or no, approve you coming back. But it's differently now. People just have babies and come back. | 20:48 |
| Tunga White | Would the guy who got the girl pregnant, would he kind of have a shotgun thing trying to get him to marry her? | 21:25 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No. No. | 21:38 |
| Tunga White | It wasn't no pressure? | 21:40 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No. It wasn't no pressure. Most times, if one got married, they would either go and get married or they would just not get married. The families, I don't think were that strong to fight the battle. I think they would just tell him that you have a baby, that you ought to marry her. And some [indistinct 00:22:01] they're just going to get married. If not, the mothers just leave it like this. | 21:41 |
| Tunga White | Do you ever hear of any girls getting abortions or trying to have abortions? | 22:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Not many. Only one girl that I know that went to school with me, I think she tried to. She died from that. | 22:13 |
| Tunga White | She did it herself, on [indistinct 00:22:23]? | 22:19 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I think she did it herself. | 22:23 |
| Tunga White | And this was high school? | 22:24 |
| Earnestine Atkins | High school. I guess I was in 10th or 11th grade. | 22:26 |
| Tunga White | Did you ever hear how she tried to do this? | 22:30 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, I never. | 22:30 |
| Tunga White | How did the people say she died [indistinct 00:22:44]? | 22:40 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They said she was pregnant. She took a overdose and she just tried to kill the baby and she just died the process. She took something. | 22:44 |
| Tunga White | So they were kind open about the way she died. Okay. I knew your mother was strict about your dealing with boys. Was there a lot of other rules in the household coming up? | 22:50 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yep, there were. When you go out, you'd be back a certain time and she would give you that time. Most time, different times. And it depends where you went. If you went to the movies, it was with a different time, because you would have to go to the movies in the evening, and you would need to be back home when the movie's over, like 7:00. Or if you go out at 4:00, you should be back by 7:00. It's hardly every time you go out in the evening like 7:00 and come back at 9:00. We didn't do that, because we didn't have cars, so we had to hitchhike a ride or go with a friend, a family friend. | 23:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | If you went out to a dance, she get would give you a certain time you leave the house, a certain time. If you had to go do those times. We used to play ball, we used to have community ball teams. If we went to play ball, we used to go out—She knew we would play a ball between 4:00 and 7:00, so after dark, you had to get back home. | 23:48 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Where else we went? We didn't too much go on vacation or go out of town much at all. Well, church is always during the day. We didn't have a lot. And if we go in the communities, say if we just go walking, visiting families and friends, all of our chores would have to have been done before we leave home. Even if we had to play ball, we had to make sure if she gives our chores, all those things had to be done before leaving. And no questions asked. If it wasn't done, you just didn't play that day. We didn't go out a lot, so I guess—Not that we were in the church so much, we just didn't. Since she had the juke joint, we were there with her all the time. And that's where everybody else came and met up. All other friends came and met there. We had our fun there. | 24:16 |
| Tunga White | Now, how far was this from your home? | 25:11 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Walking distance. I mean, it wasn't close like from here to Frizzell. Probably from here to, post office, maybe. | 25:14 |
| Tunga White | Okay. A mile or so? | 25:24 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah. | 25:24 |
| Tunga White | So what was the name of it? | 25:33 |
| Earnestine Atkins | We used to call it The Packing House. 'Cause it was an old packing house at first. | 25:33 |
| Tunga White | Now this was open to—Did it cater to young adults? | 25:44 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, mostly older. It was catered to young adults when—Right next to the place, we used to have a ball field, and this is where we played a lot of ball. So whoever came to the ballgame. There were children. The children come and after dark the children would go home and teenagers and grown ups, all would stay. It used to be one of the sole major place in the community for people. All of us in [indistinct 00:26:20] to come to. So we always kept people, always. It was a good business outlet for my parents, because even I worked there. Even I sold beer, even I sold booze. And I was underage doing those [indistinct 00:26:39]. They weren't so strict. Even I used to fry chicken, fish and— | 25:50 |
| Tunga White | So you served alcohol? Meat, food, [indistinct 00:26:43]. | 26:41 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Oh yeah sir. Whatever there was to be done, I did. | 26:42 |
| Tunga White | And they'd play music? | 26:49 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Juke joint had jukebox. | 26:54 |
| Tunga White | And they would play some cards and stuff? | 26:58 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Play cards and play—They didn't play a lot of cards, but they did play [indistinct 00:27:03] pool. Pool. That's what I thought. | 26:59 |
| Tunga White | So did you pay to get in there, or pay for everything you got once you was in there? | 27:05 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Both. When we had dance, they had to pay to get in, then pay for what they got. If we didn't have a dance, then they paid for whatever they wanted to get. | 27:12 |
| Tunga White | So was it open, how many nights? Was it open in the daytime, too? | 27:20 |
| Earnestine Atkins | It was open evenings. Mostly on Friday and Saturday nights. | 27:28 |
| Tunga White | And who owned it? | 27:41 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I don't know. I don't know who owned that place. I believe it was community. It was a school a long time ago, or either was a packing house a long time ago and it went to school. But I went there a few times, a few days for school. Then it turned into that. I don't know who [indistinct 00:28:07] owned that place. | 27:45 |
| Tunga White | Is it still— | 28:07 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, no, no. It's a house now. They pulled it down and built a house in the same spot. | 28:10 |
| Tunga White | Where exactly [indistinct 00:28:17]? | 28:15 |
| Earnestine Atkins | That's right when you turn in to go to Jerome house. | 28:17 |
| Tunga White | Where? | 28:18 |
| Earnestine Atkins | In that fence. | 28:21 |
| Tunga White | Okay. I know where- | 28:21 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Soul Palace. The Soul Palace was on one side, it was right on the next side. You see that there? You see that pretty house in that fence? That's exactly where it was. I mean, in the exact spot. And see the Soul Palace, and that was the thing. During that time, that was the center of St. Helena. Because people from all different areas united right there. | 28:24 |
| Tunga White | Now, the Soul Palace was the same type of establishment back then? | 28:49 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Two first cousins owned it. My mother's first cousin run that, is my mother ran the other one. | 28:54 |
| Tunga White | Could you kind of give me a time when each place started, when places started? It's probably about the same time? | 29:00 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Well, so the Soul Palace probably was first. Yeah. 'Cause the Soul Palace was really a two-story building once upon a time. They used to live in it. They used to live upstairs. It used to be a store long time ago. God, I'll tell ya. That place used to be a store with living quarters upstairs years ago. Gosh, thinking. Then across the street from it was another store. Course, it's not the building or nothing is there now. Gosh, that was a long time. | 29:07 |
| Tunga White | So the people who ran it lived up there? | 30:01 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Same people who operate it now lived. | 30:01 |
| Tunga White | Oh, so same family? | 30:03 |
| Earnestine Atkins | That would be another family too that you can talk with. | 30:03 |
| Tunga White | And what would [indistinct 00:30:21] | 30:03 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Ernestine Morgan. | 30:20 |
| Tunga White | So you started, you worked there as a teenager? | 30:30 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Teenager, yeah. | 30:35 |
| Tunga White | Now, you said that the activities that there were for teenagers was to go to movies, dancing, ball. | 30:37 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah, movies, dances, ball games and church. | 30:47 |
| Tunga White | Now the movie, [indistinct 00:30:54]? | 30:50 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Beaufort. | 30:53 |
| Tunga White | Where was the theater located? | 30:56 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Oh, Bay Street. But it's not there anymore. It's turned into a shop now. | 30:58 |
| Tunga White | So it was segregated, obviously. There was a different entrance for Blacks? | 31:05 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I think before my time. I think before my time it was segregated. It was one entrance, one side for Whites and one for Black, but I'm not quite sure of that. 'Cause I never really went to the movies a lot. I may have gone maybe twice a year. | 31:22 |
| Tunga White | Dances were school related, or— | 31:33 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, just community. | 31:33 |
| Tunga White | Did school carry on any things, social activities? | 31:33 |
| Earnestine Atkins | At the schools. At the schools. Not a lot. Uh-huh. | 31:45 |
| Tunga White | Now, the community dances, where would they be at? | 31:51 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right there. Right at Soul Palace, and right at the [indistinct 00:31:58] Packing House. | 31:56 |
| Tunga White | This was a gathering place for all different aspects of people. | 31:57 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Exactly. | 31:57 |
| Tunga White | And you said church. What church did you go to? | 32:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Ebenezer Baptist Church. | 32:11 |
| Tunga White | Now, was your family about [indistinct 00:32:19]. | 32:16 |
| Earnestine Atkins | All of my family stemmed right from there. | 32:20 |
| Tunga White | Did they hold any positions in the church, family members? | 32:22 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No. My father wasn't a deacon. My mother was a missionary. | 32:30 |
| Tunga White | Y'all kids [indistinct 00:32:42] in church Sundays? | 32:40 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, no, no, no, no. It wasn't that restrictive. No, no. Well, let's back up a little bit. Before I became a member of the church, before we became a member of the church, I think like three or four of my sisters and brother all joined at the same time, and we went in on that first thing they called, I believe. I believe, I think that's—I believe in God or something like that. That was a new trend going through. But during before my time, during my sister time, they had to go out in the wilderness and pray. | 32:42 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They had to go out in the wilderness, they had to wear something white. They had to tie their head. They had to go in the wilderness, like in the nighttime. They had to pray. They had to seek for a teacher. And when they dream or seek for a teacher, if they dream of someone in the community, most times someone who was older, they would have to go to that person, says, "I had a dream and I want you to be my guardian teacher, or my spiritual person to talk with." | 33:17 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And that person would identify with that party, and that party would have to be able to work with that person for a week or for two weeks. And she would have to go out every night, and if she believe in God or something like that, when she's out at night underneath the tree or in the wilderness, if she was a true spirit, a true Christian or something to that effect, she would not be afraid in the dark, or something like that. And that test, part of her testimony, she would have to testify that she was not afraid of ghosts or whatever that we fear that may be in the woods. Someone else can tell you about the wilderness, 'cause they can tell you tell specifically how that—It was one of the most unique experience for people who had to go through that, who knows about the wilderness prayer. | 33:54 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And they'll have to come back and tell certain things that they have seen or they'll dream of. It was some kind of ritual or something that they would have to follow in doing that, but it was so sacred that it was just different from what I came through. But I'm saying all of that to say that before us going to the church, because we didn't live far from the church and we didn't have rides and stuff to get to church, we had to go to a praise house. That's really where we learned our godly things, the Bible, hymns, spirituals, Bible verses. | 35:02 |
| Earnestine Atkins | All those things came from the praise house. During that time, because churches were distance and we could not walk, each community had prayer houses, and each community had their own deacon, leader, and something else. To be our leaders, let's put it that way. They would make sure that all the community people would every Sunday or Tuesday and Thursday night, would go to that praise house. It's a little house that everybody goes and just worship. | 35:48 |
| Tunga White | Everyone in that particular community living around there. | 36:37 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Right. Right. Everyone had a praise house and everyone, all the praise house met on Tuesdays and Thursdays and Sundays. So if on in my community, which is Eustis, if you met on Tuesday night from 6:00 to 8:00 or from 7:00 to 9:00, that mean everybody else in those communities would meet the same time. So they had the kind of same time to meet, but different places to meet. This is where I got all of my Christian background in terms of how to raise a hymn, how to sing spirituals, my Lord's Prayer, how to come up and testify, how to learn prayers. This is where I got all of my teaching, in the praise house. Since then, then [indistinct 00:37:32] will transform into a churches. | 36:44 |
| Tunga White | Now how much difference was the worship service at the praises house from the church and was it set up sort of like a church? | 37:42 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Okay, praise house was more individualized. Individualized mean that everybody that came to that service had something to do. It was a teaching situation. The deacons, the leaders, and the ward, whatever, they used to have us come. The children used to sit. They used to put us in position to read the scripture from the Bible. They would call up the young one from the back and say, "Come up, child, I want you to—" Oh they would tell you, "Open your Bible to such and such a page." And then they would read that for us and we would read down with them and they would show us, "Look in chapter—Matthew fifth chapter." They would show you how the chapter was and the verses. This is how we learned chapters and verses. | 37:44 |
| Tunga White | Was this more spontaneous, or you knew that when you came— | 38:35 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No, we knew things would be done, but they don't tell us when you come, "Tonight, this is what I want you to do." They call you on the spot, and they did that for a reason, to train you. And when you go up there and if you didn't know what to do, you mess up. Then they pull you through that process. You know what I'm saying? They help you along. If you bum fumble and you act like you don't know what you're doing, and most times we didn't know, this was our teaching. | 38:38 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They would say, "I want you to go up, Earnestine, and I want you to get the Bible and I want you to read such and such." And before then, I didn't know that you could find a chapter and then find the verses. But they teach you. They find the book in the Bible, then they show you the chapter, then they find it for and they show you, say, "I want you to read this. See, this is chapter five. I want you to read from number one to number four." And that's when we could read them. They would let you read. | 39:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Then to raise a hymn, that's the short meter and common meter. You probably don't know nothing about none of those kind of things [indistinct 00:39:43]. But I mean, here we know about these things. And they would, both of them is sung in a different way. One is long, one is short. And before you leave here, you need to go to go to a prayer house service. | 39:35 |
| Tunga White | Now, is it where you take a song and you just—Did you lengthen? | 39:58 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Lengthens, add on, and that's part of it, yes. | 40:01 |
| Tunga White | Yeah, I know some of our, in our beginning of our prayer service, we have that. We do songs like that, then regular. | 40:02 |
| Earnestine Atkins | What's that? | 40:05 |
| Tunga White | [indistinct 00:40:06]. | 40:05 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Little one? | 40:05 |
| Tunga White | Uh-huh. | 40:06 |
| Earnestine Atkins | The red shirt? | 40:06 |
| Tunga White | No, with the [indistinct 00:40:19]. | 40:16 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Oh, okay. Little one? Young fellow? Boy. | 40:19 |
| Tunga White | Now when you looking back at that, which one did you like? | 40:19 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I liked the praise house better. | 40:19 |
| Tunga White | Now. Okay, now when you were in that situation, you were a young person, which one did you like? | 40:20 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Praise house better. | 40:33 |
| Tunga White | Praise house [indistinct 00:40:41]. | 40:39 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Because in the church, we don't get to do that. It's just recently, in the recent years, the youth or the young people, and I'm in the adult, I would go along with the adult. But it's just now, I mean, the recent past train over the last five, ten years is that they're getting youth involved in doing those kinds of things. Then, it's not done like how we learned it. I mean, it's done on a lower key. On a lower scale. You don't get all the teachings in the church as you would in a praise house, because these people will let you do it over and over until you really get it. And then they'll tell you now, if you did it tonight, they'll tell you, "Now when you come back Tuesday night, I want you to be ready to do something else." | 40:41 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And they'll do it over and over and next week, two more people or four more people would doing that. And sometime, they may assign you to make sure. So you can go home and look that up in the Bible and come back to do it, so you'll save time. But see, that was teaching to us. If this interesting, I want you to go home and take Luke the fifth chapter, and I want you to read down to the tenth verse. Then when I come back, I need to know that this is what I'm going to do Sunday or Thursday. Also, along with that, I also need to know why shouldn't I then confide in one of my leader or someone on the ward who knows about the Bible, to teach me those words, to teach me those verses in the Bible so when I read it, I can go back and I can explain it and that's how. And see, we don't do that in the church. Even up until today, we don't do that in church. | 41:27 |
| Tunga White | Around what age did they start incorporating the children? | 42:26 |
| Earnestine Atkins | The children, when we were young, we were young, I would say like 10 and 11. We used to go and listen and we used to look at our bigger sisters and brothers do it. But as we got bigger, during that time, we would've been in the process of learning how. You see what I'm saying? Although it was nine and ten during those time, we would watch them do it and at some point they would even ask the young ones, "When you're chilling back there, lead us in a song." And one of us may say, "Well, Jesus love me. Yes, I know." Then everybody say amen. And we would just do the songs ourselves. So it would kind of help us get rid of a lot of fears that we may have because no particular one can do it, but anyone who does it, and if anyone mess up, then another person would catch on you and carry on. | 42:29 |
| Earnestine Atkins | If I didn't know all the words, then when they see me kind of stumbling, then someone would pick that up and take it on, then I would sing along and sing along and sing along. And if you do it over and over at each service or something, then it become a part of you over a month, two or three months, and you just become you. Then you start doing it. And they would pull us from the back and they'll say, "Come sit up front and I want you to do this tonight." And they'll tell us, "You all are young children, we getting older and we going to have to teach y'all do this thing, because when we're gone, you all need to know." So that was our teaching. Then people, the leaders used to come to the houses and say, "You need to be in church tomorrow. You need to be to the praise house tomorrow night or you need to come as slothful members." That's what they call them, the slothful people. That's what they call them. | 43:21 |
| Tunga White | Now, who was some of the leaders you had at the praise house [indistinct 00:44:16]? | 44:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | The leaders, all of my leaders, all of my leaders now are deceased. But our biggest leader was Mr. Marion Gardner. And he was one of the men who was in that four day storm who lost his whole family but one granddaughter. | 44:16 |
| Tunga White | Oh my goodness. | 44:31 |
| Earnestine Atkins | He lost his wife, he lost two or three children, and he saved his granddaughter. He held onto a tree somehow. He just held onto a tree, and just kind of held onto that tree and he just survived. Oh, is [indistinct 00:44:52], I mean some people can tell you some stories. You hear me? If you be along, they can tell you some stories. | 44:33 |
| Tunga White | I want to try to talk to them too. Now, where exactly was the praise house [indistinct 00:45:02]? | 45:00 |
| Earnestine Atkins | The praise house right across from Jerome, the praise house. Jerome is on this side of the road. The praise house is on the opposite side of the road. The little bushes back there. | 45:02 |
| Tunga White | Now, you said you had services Tuesday, services Sunday. And what, it was like night you would [indistinct 00:45:24]? | 45:17 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Evenings. Evenings. Usually try to get so everyone get back home right at dark or right after dark, like dusk, 9:00, 8:30, 9:00 at the evening. | 45:23 |
| Tunga White | Now when did the praise house [indistinct 00:45:41]? | 45:34 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Gosh, the praise house dance, and I hated that too. I joined church in '59 [indistinct 00:45:55], and right about in the early '60s, the praise house kind of start dwindling. | 45:42 |
| Tunga White | And that was due to the people getting cars and more churches popping up? | 46:02 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Cars. Mm-hmm. | 46:03 |
| Tunga White | What other changes did you notice in your community that are going have occurred now in the last 10, 20 years that, when you were growing up, things were different. Like you mentioned there were praise houses, and then people started going to church. What other changes have you noticed? | 46:28 |
| Earnestine Atkins | One big change is that people are just not community oriented like they used to be. People used to plant their farms or their fields, and people used to share. If I pick a bushel, if my daddy got a bushel of okras, he would go around to everybody's house and share. If they kill a hog, the whole community would come and get a piece. And that's not just my family, it's any family. | 46:35 |
| Tunga White | Talk to me about some of the changes that you've noticed. | 0:03 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah, yeah. A lot of the changes is that people are not united like they used to be. Everybody is into their own world now. And I guess including me, it's just like we don't need anyone now. I mean, we got all these luxuries, and we got our car, and we have got our children, and we're doing our own thing. We just don't talk and meet, and do a lot of things, that we used to do before. Before, when we didn't have cars, we used to go from house to house. I would go to this one's house, and we would pick up there and go to another house, and pick up and we would just all get in our little huddle, at somebody's house, or in the road somewhere, underneath the trees somewhere, and just talk, communicate. We used to go play with each other. We used to go and sit down, and we used to bring covered dishes, and we used to do all those things. That doesn't happen anymore. | 0:06 |
| Earnestine Atkins | People have telephones. People don't even call people to see how they're doing anymore. That doesn't happen. It's a lot of things that doesn't happen that used to happen. We just lost the sense of togetherness. We just lost the sense of happiness, in terms of helping each other. If I've got you, and I keep all what I've got, and I don't share with you. We don't do none of that anymore. If I have a friend, if my friend says, "Earnestine, I need $5." I would give it to her. But if someone said, "Send me some grits or some rice." Before, we used to go to each other's house. They didn't have to be home. We could go in there, and if we know we need some flour, we could get what we need, and go home, and we'll say, "Look girl, I've been in your house today. I got me some flour and some sugar." You don't do that anymore. It just doesn't happen. I think too much, anymore, people take advantage of you anymore, more than anything. Do you see what I'm saying? | 1:05 |
| Tunga White | Mm-hmm. | 2:01 |
| Earnestine Atkins | People just don't trust. People lock doors. We didn't have to lock doors before. We didn't have to lock up doors, and anything anymore. Gee, we don't even see each other too much anymore. People are into our own thing, and people are working, and have their own thing to do. So, it's a whole big change. Not because, I guess, we wanted to do it, it's just that people have more to do. People have to provide for their families. And now, it's because people work, can earn money. People just do that. | 2:05 |
| Tunga White | So, do you think that it's because of the work outside of the home, you might say? | 2:44 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes. | 2:49 |
| Tunga White | Outside of the community? | 2:49 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes, of course. | 2:49 |
| Tunga White | That's what played a factor in that? | 2:49 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes. That has a big part. Lot of— | 2:53 |
| Tunga White | Do you think that integration into White society— | 2:55 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes. | 2:55 |
| Tunga White | —also, has a part in that? | 3:00 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Integration has the biggest bulk of what's going on to it. And I know that for a fact, because a lot of integration have took away a lot of pride from individuals, taking them away from the community, or having to leave the community to survive. And because of that, things just change. People have gotten so—I call it Whitenized. I don't know what other term I need to use. We have gotten into what other people do. What other people have got. I want this. We've never had that problem before. And I'm not saying it's all bad, at all. | 3:01 |
| Tunga White | Right. | 3:42 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I'm just saying that we would be a whole lot farther, if we take what we've got, and use what we've got, and stop being so greed, for a lot of things that we wouldn't necessarily need and want. We want more than we need, and that exceeds—It's like four times. I try to get the things that I need. For an example, like clothing. I don't go out every time I get paid, and buy a new piece. I don't buy my daughter a new piece every time I get paid. I can't afford it. I don't go out and buy the—Whatever kind of sneakers they buy with the $90. My daughter don't have one pair. I don't go out, and try to get these name brand things, that everyone else have, just to be a part of the group. And thank God, so far, nine years old, my daughter have not gotten into that kind of mind-setting. | 3:43 |
| Tunga White | I hear you all. | 4:45 |
| Earnestine Atkins | She doesn't have that yet. She does not ask me for things that she sees other children have; not yet. But I talk with her all the time. I say, "Baby, your Mommy—I'm a single parent, and I try to make amends. I keep the house clean. I try to get things that I know that you need educationally, that I can help with, but your Mama just can't afford to go out and buy anything." I said, "Because the same skips, that I can go in the store and buy you, you can wear that. You can look just as good or just as neat as—" | 4:46 |
| Tunga White | Okay. You were talking about you and your daughter's relationship. | 5:16 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah. I just try to head on, from a little girl, try to tell her that a lot of things that she may see other children have, but it's not necessary that they have those things. Because someone is stressed out on buying those things, versus having the things that she needs; that they need. I try to explain to her that it's a fad. People get it, because they see other people have it, and it looks good. I said, "But those same people, that are making money, we are not getting any of that money from that pair of sneakers that they're getting." I said, "If we were getting a percentage, like maybe $5 for each pair that sold, that would be helpful to us." I try to help her understand that, in that way. | 5:26 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I said, "When those shoes are gone, it goes back to the person or to the company. So Mommy needs to buy for you, what she can afford. And what I buy for you, I try to make it look good. I try to keep it clean for you." And I say, "You are a pretty girl, and I try to dress you nice. I try to keep you clean, and that's the best I can do. So, when you see children talk about, 'I got this and I got that', try to be aware that the parents might be able to afford it. They may have the money. They may have other relatives, that are pulling in their resources, to help her get these things." | 6:09 |
| Tunga White | You don't know how people got it. | 6:48 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And I said, "We don't know how people come, but I'm telling you from experience, your mother is not getting money from all the resources to help you along." I said, "Your father, he does for you, when he can, and he does for you, as much as he can." I said, "But remember, we have to eat. We have to keep the lights on. We have to have gas. We have to get you cool, we have to be warm." And I said, "We have to pay the water bill." I said, "Those things are necessities. And if we don't have those things, then how would you want to come home one day, the water's turned off, you can't take a bath?" I said, "Then, how would that hit you? You come home one day, we don't have lights to see." I say, "So, we have to always make sure those are our priorities." | 6:49 |
| Tunga White | Right. | 7:33 |
| Earnestine Atkins | "And if Mommy have money enough to do other things, then we can go out and splurge a little bit." | 7:33 |
| Tunga White | That's right. | 7:39 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I say, "And only that, but we can't invest a lot of money, in one item, that you are going to grow out of, in a given time." I try to explain it, as elementary as I can to her, so she can understand. And she doesn't bother me. | 7:40 |
| Tunga White | And when you were a child growing up, were there certain people that you went to with church with, who had a lot more than the other people? Or what- | 7:54 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There were family members, who had a lot more than other people, because most of my family are teachers, and et cetera. And some people—It appears, I know a lot of people didn't say this, or didn't probably think this, but I thought it. Thought they were better than you were. And I had that mentality about people. However, I learned through the years, and through somewhere, I don't know how, I learned that that wasn't all true. That when you go to their house, they just are as in need as I am. It's just that they may have more money, because their dad may have a different kind of job setting, and may be around people to give them more, and that would add to their family, whatever. I learned that. So, I formulated in my mind, I don't care what they have. | 8:06 |
| Earnestine Atkins | As long as my mother tell us to wash them clothes, if you have to wear one piece three times a week, but you keep them clean. See, I grew up under that teaching, and whatever you wear, keep it clean. But you have to accept what you got, because this is all we have. Because we used to get hand-me-downs, and I knew that. And my grandmother, when she lived in New York, she used to send us boxes every three months. She used to get those rummage off the streets. And that used to be my new clothes. Probably third hand worn, but new clothes for me. | 9:00 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And I'll never forget, I must have been in 9th or 10th grade, I always made half decent grades, but they weren't great grades. And something just clicked in me, and said, "Hey look!" To your question, I said I think some people had more, of a better whatever. I said to myself, "I'm a human being. And my Mom do for me. She loves me just as much as anyone else's Mom. So hey, get off your butt, and try to do something for yourself." I'm talking to me. And I began to—And people, they had the A class, the B class, the C class and when they get down, that's how they had the grades in school. | 9:32 |
| Earnestine Atkins | All the well-known people's children were in the A class. That's Black now, I ain't talking about White and Black. I ain't talking segregation. Somebody talking Black-on-Black. All the next class of people in the B class. The next class, in the C class. The ones who didn't know their parents or nothing, in the D class. And I kind of looked through that, and I said to myself—And all the A class used to make all the A's. And all the teachers used to be real nice to them. | 10:10 |
| Tunga White | As opposed to going down the line. | 10:39 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And I said to myself, "I will not let that happen." I made it, in my mind, I was going to work as hard as I thought. And I knew I worked hard as they did, and I knew I did much better than a lot of them did. But when grade time comes, they had been better grades than me. | 10:42 |
| Tunga White | They were just separated within the classroom? | 10:57 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Exactly, within the—See, all the A class were all the ages—And they were treated—In that classroom, they were treated a little bit different than the B class. | 11:00 |
| Tunga White | Were they separated seat-wise? | 11:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | No. No. | 11:08 |
| Tunga White | They were together? | 11:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | All the B class go to the same classes together; all the A. They were in class, like homeroom classes. | 11:14 |
| Tunga White | Oh! | 11:21 |
| Earnestine Atkins | That's homeroom classes. | 11:23 |
| Tunga White | Okay, I see. | 11:24 |
| Earnestine Atkins | You got me? That's the difference. | 11:24 |
| Tunga White | Mm-hmm. | 11:27 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Homeroom classes. | 11:27 |
| Tunga White | How did the students, who were A students, how did they treat these other students? How did they group— | 11:33 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They just didn't mingle with them too much. But the only thing that saved it, that there were cross-sections of families, within the A to D classes. You may have had an A student, that were first cousins to the one of the D classes. | 11:37 |
| Tunga White | That's why they wouldn't [indistinct 00:11:51]. | 11:50 |
| Earnestine Atkins | So, they had to communicate. And then, a lot of times, they probably thought they were better, in my thinking. It didn't have to be, but in my thinking. Because I thought, they thought they were better than me. But when I realized that they weren't no better, then I began to work harder and harder. And when I knew, that I would began to work harder, and began to get more outspoken, I began to feel that they were treating me the same way they were treating the A class. I said, "Well, damn! If you have to do that, do it." | 11:51 |
| Tunga White | Uh-huh. | 12:19 |
| Earnestine Atkins | So then, I began to start making the honor roll, and started making the honor roll. And I noticed, I've been being treated a little better. In fact, I kind of watched that for a while, and I said to myself—But so—See, my mother was not as well known to the individual, or A class. All the A children, either their mother was school teachers. They were up-uppity. Up-uppity, I mean. | 12:20 |
| Tunga White | So, what kind of job did you have to have to be the—? | 12:42 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Job-wise, all those people that are in the A class, either had a good job, they were the elites in the community, in terms of people who own stores, people who have farms. You know what I'm saying? | 12:47 |
| Tunga White | What distinguishes people listed in one class or the other? You said, could the minister's children—[indistinct 00:13:12] | 13:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | That all of those—Anything having to do with any kind of leadership. | 13:12 |
| Tunga White | Okay, leadership. | 13:16 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Any leadership, any parents who were in any kind of leadership role. Any kind of community oriented. Any kind of church affiliated, up in the church. Anything like that. They all were into a different class. See, I was in a B class, so me and my parents were a little bit less known than the others. So, that kind of thing. I don't know how to do—Things like that, we don't know how or why those things occurs. | 13:18 |
| Tunga White | Yeah. | 13:45 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I hadn't even thought about that. I mean, I knew it, but—Anyways, so some of us just got together, and we just said, "Hey, let's watch this thing." And we just went on, and did something about it. And I noticed, when I started being on the honor roll, I noticed that the ones in A class began to talk to me. Treat me like— | 13:47 |
| Tunga White | They felt that they were superior— | 14:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes. | 14:08 |
| Tunga White | —not only because of their family position, but grades and everything like that. They felt superior to the other people— | 14:08 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yes. | 14:08 |
| Tunga White | —that's why they kind of separated themselves from—and the teachers, I guess, encouraged that. | 14:21 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah, exactly. | 14:22 |
| Tunga White | Did the parents account the same thing, too? | 14:24 |
| Earnestine Atkins | I think so. Yeah. I think— | 14:30 |
| Tunga White | I never knew that kind of thing. | 14:33 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Oh, yeah. | 14:33 |
| Tunga White | I knew people—When I was going to school, you would be separated according to your grades [crosstalk 00:14:44]. | 14:40 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And some these same questions, you need to ask some other people, just to see what they say. You just need to see what they say, away from me, from themselves. Just see what they say how they feel about different things. Matter of fact, a lot of questions you're asking me, I'm sure a lot of people will be telling you, probably, similar that story. | 14:47 |
| Earnestine Atkins | But anyways, we're talking about community things. Even within the community, people—It was kind of like that. If your mother—Now, my mother runs a juke joint. Although she ran this juke joint, a lot of people look at me as I was better than they were. | 15:05 |
| Tunga White | Right, right. | 15:25 |
| Earnestine Atkins | They did. And thought I had more than they did. | 15:25 |
| Tunga White | And so, you— | 15:28 |
| Earnestine Atkins | It's exact. And even right now. And see, this is where the respect comes from. And it's not that I feel that way, it's just that people look at you that way. | 15:32 |
| Tunga White | Oh, right. | 15:40 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And put you in that category, too. And that could be for these grade things. Even right now, people respect me; a whole lot of my community. Because, first of all, I'm a people's-person, and I talk to the young, to the old. And I don't care where they live, I don't care how they live. I will stop by, and I will say, "Hello!" And I would be involved. If anything comes up, and I know my older people, who cannot get places, I will call them on the phone and say, "Hey look, such-and-such program is happening. I think that it might be a program, that you may be interested in. Here's how you can go about doing it, or come down, or go down, or call down. Or they're serving some free something, or they're giving out some voucher, you may be eligible for such and such." I'll call them on the phone, and tell them, "Follow it up." Or I'll call for it. I'll call, and get back. | 15:42 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And I do that, all the time, with people. And right now, they look up to me as if, "Hey, Earnestine is really a leader, because she keeps us abreast. She informs us, and she really hangs in there." And I had a lady just call me last, and told me the same identical. She said, "One thing I can say about you, girl." She says, "You have a lot of your Mom and Dad in you." She said, "I don't care what happened. You will call to find out if I hear about something." And she said, "I like you to do that, because if you didn't call me, I would've never known." | 16:32 |
| Tunga White | Mm-hmm. | 17:05 |
| Earnestine Atkins | And they respect me, in that way. | 17:06 |
| Tunga White | Sure. | 17:09 |
| Earnestine Atkins | But I don't belittle none of them, because I'm there when they need me, and they're there for me. | 17:09 |
| Tunga White | Oh, are you considered a community leader? | 17:14 |
| Earnestine Atkins | Yeah, I am. I am. I am. So, those are kinds of things that has changed. | 17:20 |
| Tunga White | Okay, thank you so much for the interview. | 17:23 |
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