Abraham Smith (primary interviewee) and Robert Georgia interview recording, 1994

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Abraham Smith	Born in Summerton in 1930. My father and them—	0:01
Gregory Hunter	Hold on. Hold on, one second. Say that whole thing over because I think you said it too early—	0:06
Abraham Smith	Too early?	0:09
Gregory Hunter	But, okay, you can go now.	0:12
Abraham Smith	My name is Abraham Smith. I was born in Summerton in 1930. My father's name was Robert Smith. Mother's name, Orie Smith. They started running a small business in Summerton in 1935. They been running it up till they died, then I took over.	0:14
Abraham Smith	At one time, they was running two businesses. But then this segregation thing come out and it's so much of a problem till they closed the one of them. The White Citizens' Council had put it out of business, one of them, really, because you couldn't get nothing off the trucks or whatnot.	0:36
Abraham Smith	Milk man, egg man, none of the men wouldn't come. Soda man, beer man, no man would come around and serve you because the White Citizens' Council told them that if they come and serve us they couldn't serve the White folks.	1:01
Abraham Smith	So I had to go to Sumter and pick up stuff and go over the river to meet the meat man. Go to Manning and pick up stuff. I graduated from Scott's Branch School in 1949. I think the principal's name then was Isaiah Benson. You want to talk?	1:16
Robert James Georgia	My name is Robert Georgia.	1:53
Gregory Hunter	How do you spell your last name?	1:56
Robert James Georgia	Geor—Just like the state of Georgia. Robert James Georgia. I was born in 1930, October 23rd. I started school in 1936, I think it was. The old school was up there near set about A.M.E. Church. When it burnt down, they move it up the street, west, about two blocks further up.	1:57
Robert James Georgia	So graduated in 1949, when I graduate from high school. Our principal was Mr. Benson. During the year we graduate, we thought we was graduating from 11th grade but they added 12th grade, so our class was the first glass graduated from 12th grade in 19, what? '49?	2:25
Gregory Hunter	'49.	2:54
Robert James Georgia	So, during that year, Mr. Benson, Professor Benson, for some reason looked like they overcharged some of the students more to rent the robes than what they did the other ones. So they ended up giving some of them their money back. During that time, that's when things started.	2:56
Robert James Georgia	We lived on a farm and before this integration thing started, a lot of people was a member of the NAACP. You used to sign a petition about who all was a member. My father, which was Robert Georgia, Sr., we owned our own farm.	3:20
Robert James Georgia	He bought a new two-horse wagon and some mules. Every year at the end of the farm year, you pay so much on the wagon or your mules or whatever. This particular year, in 1950, they didn't want him to pay a part of it. They want all or else they going to take the mules back and the wagon. So Abraham Smith's father, he owned a business and he had money and so he paid for the, finished paying the debt off for my father.	3:47
Robert James Georgia	During this time, Reverend DeLaine came in during the same time, the year we graduate. Things was going so bad that year, but our basketball game, we didn't have a basketball gym. So during the tournament year, we had the tournament in Cage Street, which they had a gym.	4:24
Robert James Georgia	So coming back from the school gym that year, Abraham and I, and Georgia and Huggin, they was riding with me in the car. There was some papers, after I put Abraham out right by the church, some paper was thrown out on the street. It was threatening Reverend DeLaine of what they was going to do to him because he was something like our advisor during that year.	4:57
Robert James Georgia	During that time, we went to court. But the main reason why we went to court, on account they was charging too much, overcharging for the rings and things. The little paperwork was throwed out on the street.	5:31
Robert James Georgia	The next day, that same night, the police stopped me right at his house and wanted to know what we was doing out that late. That's the same night I found the papers. The next day they came to my house and wanted to arrest me because they say that I throwed the papers out that was threatening Reverend DeLaine and so it began from there.	5:45
Robert James Georgia	They just started out back and forth and Reverend DeLaine advised us, "Go around and get all the parents to sign the paper that what's going on with robbing." We had meetings at St. Mark A.M.E. Church and that's mostly the way it started, during that year.	6:16
Gregory Hunter	You said this was in 1950 this all happened?	6:46
Robert James Georgia	Around 1950 wasn't it anyway?	6:48
Abraham Smith	Yeah. Around 1950.	6:48
Robert James Georgia	About 1950.	6:48
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	6:51
Robert James Georgia	Because, then, we was out of school then.	6:52
Gregory Hunter	Uh-huh. Yeah. Both of what you both said brings up a lot of questions that I have with just the two things that you said in your introduction. It brings, Mr. Smith, I wanted to—You said your father began owning his own business in 1935. Is this the same building that your store is in now, is that one of them?	6:54
Abraham Smith	No.	7:14
Gregory Hunter	Where was it located?	7:15
Abraham Smith	The last one. This one was located up on Main Street. The first one he run was right—Well, I don't know. Wasn't he on that Railroad Avenue?	7:19
Robert James Georgia	Yep. Railroad Avenue.	7:27
Abraham Smith	Railroad Avenue. On Railroad Avenue.	7:28
Gregory Hunter	What was that business?	7:31
Abraham Smith	Well, that was just like a little restaurant, mostly.	7:33
Robert James Georgia	That's right.	7:42
Abraham Smith	The second business was on—I can't remember.	7:43
Robert James Georgia	What's the name of that street?	7:43
Abraham Smith	Right behind town.	7:43
Robert James Georgia	Young's. Young's. Right across the street from Young's. By the Piggly Wiggly.	7:44
Abraham Smith	Yeah, now.	7:49
Gregory Hunter	And what was that?	7:50
Abraham Smith	That was a grocery store and a restaurant combined.	7:52
Gregory Hunter	That's right and grocery store? He owned both of those himself?	7:58
Abraham Smith	Yeah. He owned them, yeah.	8:02
Gregory Hunter	Now, were there a lot of other people, other Black people who owned restaurants or grocery stores in Summerton around that time, in the '30s?	8:03
Abraham Smith	Let me see.	8:10
Speaker 1	I would say yeah.	8:12
Robert James Georgia	No. He was about the only one.	8:13
Speaker 1	Oh, yeah?	8:13
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Right, the only one. After he left that particular slot and Louis Oliver, he got it.	8:19
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	8:26
Robert James Georgia	After y'all moved from there. Got it, by Young's.	8:26
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	8:26
Gregory Hunter	How did he come to own those stores? How did he get them?	8:32
Abraham Smith	Well, the last two, he bought them. The first one, he just rented. First one, he just rented it. But the last two, he built them and bought stuff and had them built. That how he done them all.	8:36
Gregory Hunter	Where'd he get the money from to buy them?	8:49
Abraham Smith	Well, he borrowed. He had a White, well, two really. He would get him anything we want. All during the time when this stuff was going on, he didn't never started. If you wanted something then you couldn't getting it. His name was I. Dumas.	8:50
Robert James Georgia	I. Dumas.	9:08
Gregory Hunter	I. Dumas?	9:08
Speaker 1	I. Dumas, yeah.	9:08
Abraham Smith	I. Dumas.	9:10
Gregory Hunter	Do you know how to spell that?	9:11
Abraham Smith	I. Dumas.	9:11
Robert James Georgia	That's right.	9:11
Gregory Hunter	Was the White man's name?	9:13
Abraham Smith	What man?	9:13
Gregory Hunter	Who lent your father that money?	9:15
Abraham Smith	Yeah. I. Dumas.	9:17
Robert James Georgia	Uh-huh. He owned a store up there on Main Street.	9:18
Abraham Smith	On Main Street.	9:20
Gregory Hunter	I. Dumas did?	9:20
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. A dry goods store.	9:20
Gregory Hunter	Oh, yeah? Did he let a lot of other people borrow money, too?	9:24
Abraham Smith	Yeah. He let people that he knew. He had customers. They come in.	9:28
Robert James Georgia	They paid to spend.	9:33
Abraham Smith	He'll let them have money. He'd charge them on it but he'll let them have it.	9:34
Gregory Hunter	Your father was just good friends with him?	9:41
Abraham Smith	Yeah. Good friends.	9:43
Gregory Hunter	How did they become good friends?	9:44
Abraham Smith	I don't know.	9:46
Robert James Georgia	Because, I guess, by doing business in the store, you know.	9:50
Abraham Smith	I can remember he was doing business with him. I can remember he was doing business with him.	9:53
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Uh-huh.	9:54
Gregory Hunter	What kind of work was your father doing before?	9:54
Abraham Smith	Before he opened the store, he used to work on the farm.	9:57
Gregory Hunter	Okay.	10:00
Abraham Smith	I think he was a sharecropper, I think.	10:00
Gregory Hunter	Oh. Okay.	10:02
Abraham Smith	Uh-huh. Yeah. As far as I know. You see, I was only five years old when he quit renting his business.	10:02
Gregory Hunter	Okay. Okay.	10:02
Abraham Smith	Uh-huh. I can't remember exactly what he was doing before then.	10:07
Gregory Hunter	Did you work in there with him, when you were young?	10:16
Abraham Smith	Not in the first one. I worked in the second one and this one up here, now, what I run.	10:22
Gregory Hunter	Okay.	10:24
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	10:24
Gregory Hunter	When your father owned that one, too, before?	10:26
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	10:30
Gregory Hunter	Before you agreed to go?	10:30
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	10:30
Gregory Hunter	When did he buy that store?	10:31
Abraham Smith	This one, up here?	10:33
Gregory Hunter	Yes, sir.	10:33
Abraham Smith	In 1950, I think it was. 1950. Mm-hmm.	10:34
Gregory Hunter	Then he sold the other one to Louis Oliver, you say?	10:45
Abraham Smith	Louis Oliver, the one on the street up there on Railroad Avenue, he was renting that one.	10:49
Gregory Hunter	He was renting it? Okay.	10:57
Abraham Smith	But the third store—And see, he was running more than two stores. Some of them he was renting. The last two he was running, he owned those. But the one down on this street around here, he built that one, too, from the ground up and this one up here, from the ground up. I took over this one in 1961, I think it was.	10:57
Gregory Hunter	Now, for him to have all these stores, to be running all these stores and he was one of the, probably, one of the, you said, one of the only Black men who ran their own stores and owned their stores.	11:26
Abraham Smith	And Louis Oliver.	11:38
Gregory Hunter	And then Louis Oliver?	11:38
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	11:39
Gregory Hunter	How did the White people in town see that?	11:42
Abraham Smith	Oh. They didn't like it, period.	11:46
Robert James Georgia	They never did, they never like his father too much.	11:48
Abraham Smith	No.	11:51
Robert James Georgia	Because he always run the store.	11:52
Abraham Smith	Always was buying a new property, they didn't like.	11:55
Robert James Georgia	Hiring people to work for him.	11:57
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	11:57
Robert James Georgia	And have new cars every year or every other year. He definitely wasn't working for them. It never [indistinct 00:12:04].	11:59
Abraham Smith	Like that, they wanted to figure out how he could do it, you know.	12:03
Robert James Georgia	They never like it because he didn't go out in the fields and working long woods, buckboard. No, he never do that kind of work.	12:10
Gregory Hunter	The kind of work other Black people were doing.	12:17
Robert James Georgia	Right. Other Black people was doing, he didn't never. He didn't do that kind of work. He'd go clean all the time, new cars. And a lot of Blacks weren't able to own new cars.	12:17
Gregory Hunter	How did Black folks see him?	12:30
Robert James Georgia	Everyone liked him. Everybody liked him.	12:31
Abraham Smith	Yeah. He had a lot of Black friends.	12:31
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Yeah.	12:31
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	12:31
Robert James Georgia	Matter of fact, his brother and I are first cousins.	12:42
Gregory Hunter	Oh. Okay.	12:48
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	12:48
Robert James Georgia	And we could've—Like at the end of the school year, I wanted to get some extra money. I used to work for him, work for Robert Smith. We used to clean fish for him, clean fish and make some extra cash.	12:48
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	12:55
Robert James Georgia	He'd pay us. I remember when, used to work. Money during them days where $1.00, that's a lot of money.	13:09
Abraham Smith	Yeah. You had $1.50, you'd have as much as you have now.	13:10
Robert James Georgia	Yes, sir. Yeah.	13:10
Abraham Smith	Thirty-five.	13:10
Gregory Hunter	Now, did most of the Black people in town shop at that store?	13:18
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	13:20
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	13:21
Abraham Smith	He had pretty good customers, pretty good.	13:22
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. He had a lot of customers. Yeah.	13:25
Abraham Smith	See, it wasn't nothing like no Piggly Wiggly stuff, right? This was just a little small store. It was uptown there.	13:26
Robert James Georgia	A lot of people go there and shop.	13:37
Abraham Smith	That Piggly Wiggly didn't come there till in the '60s, I think it was.	13:37
Robert James Georgia	I think you were right.	13:39
Gregory Hunter	What other grocery stores were there for people to go to?	13:42
Abraham Smith	I think, Wells.	13:45
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	13:45
Abraham Smith	Wells had a grocery store out there in—	13:45
Gregory Hunter	That was run by White folks?	13:49
Robert James Georgia	White, yeah.	13:50
Abraham Smith	Yeah. And Sprot.	13:56
Robert James Georgia	Joe Saluda, that was a grocery store.	13:56
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	13:56
Gregory Hunter	He's Black, though?	13:58
Robert James Georgia	White.	13:59
Gregory Hunter	Oh. He's White, also?	14:00
Robert James Georgia	They all White.	14:01
Abraham Smith	Yeah. All of them were.	14:01
Robert James Georgia	Used to be a lot of grocery stores back in the '40s and '50s.	14:01
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	14:01
Robert James Georgia	Nibble's.	14:08
Abraham Smith	Another one used to be out there, too. Two of them used to be out there but I can't think of the name of them.	14:10
Robert James Georgia	Why don't you go right here and start because I can't think.	14:13
Abraham Smith	Junior?	14:18
Gregory Hunter	You also started—(phone rings)	14:21
Gregory Hunter	Want me to pause while you answer that?	14:22
Abraham Smith	If you could.	14:23
Gregory Hunter	[INTERRUPTION 00:14:23]	14:23
Gregory Hunter	You started talking a little bit about how White folks wanted to try to close him down. What kind of things would they do to try to close your father down?	14:26
Abraham Smith	Well, anything they could. Like for instance. We had, out by this store, we had a little stand out there where he used to sell barbecue. They had it fixed there up. A fellow brought some booze out there and he got—The laws came out there and found the booze and he wound up tooking his life on account of that because they wanted to put him in jail.	14:51
Robert James Georgia	Mm-hmm.	15:00
Gregory Hunter	Oh. They took his license to run that store?	15:04
Abraham Smith	They wanted to, but they didn't. They didn't took it. They talked about took.	15:08
Robert James Georgia	He took—Your father took his life?	15:08
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	15:08
Gregory Hunter	Oh. Oh.	15:08
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	15:08
Robert James Georgia	He wasn't the type of man just to do what the White folks say, you know? So he killed hisself. Other than go to jail and stay and pick cotton, yeah, he killed hisself.	15:08
Gregory Hunter	Oh. Is that right?	15:24
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	15:25
Gregory Hunter	What year was that?	15:25
Abraham Smith	That's '59, '56. '56, yeah, it was '56, I think it was.	15:25
Gregory Hunter	How long were they trying to put him in jail for?	15:36
Abraham Smith	I can't remember. What they had given him, set any time. I know he was supposed to go to court and they said that he would get time, so—	15:46
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	15:47
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	15:47
Robert James Georgia	Back in them days, they used to like to go put you on the chain gang. They called it the chain gang.	15:47
Gregory Hunter	Yeah.	15:47
Robert James Georgia	Because like I say, he's good. That wasn't the type of man that worked for White people.	15:57
Abraham Smith	I ain't never been able to work for none. I ain't never work for none, either.	16:04
Gregory Hunter	So your father, he was just determined not to go to jail?	16:09
Robert James Georgia	Right.	16:13
Abraham Smith	Right.	16:13
Gregory Hunter	No matter what he had to do?	16:15
Abraham Smith	Right.	16:15
Robert James Georgia	Mm-hmm.	16:15
Gregory Hunter	How did he—?	16:15
Abraham Smith	Shoot his self.	16:15
Gregory Hunter	Is that right?	16:15
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	16:19
Gregory Hunter	Wow.	16:21
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	16:21
Gregory Hunter	That must've had a big impact on—	16:23
Abraham Smith	Yeah. It did.	16:26
Gregory Hunter	On your family, especially after seeing—	16:26
Abraham Smith	Yes it did—	16:27
Gregory Hunter	[Crosstalk 00:16:43].	16:43
Abraham Smith	Certainly did, yeah.	16:43
Gregory Hunter	Yeah.	16:43
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm. Yes, sir.	16:43
Robert James Georgia	That was the thing I—One day, we was going to Manning. He was driving. His father was in there and I was in there. The road patrol was driving ahead of us, you know? And the road patrol was driving slow.	16:43
Gregory Hunter	That's the police?	16:57
Robert James Georgia	A policeman. He was driving all slow. Abraham passed him. Then they give you a ticket. Do you remember that?	16:59
Abraham Smith	Yes.	17:07
Robert James Georgia	They give you a ticket because you passed them.	17:07
Abraham Smith	I remember. Danny Elton.	17:09
Robert James Georgia	I believe it was Elton.	17:09
Abraham Smith	Yeah. I believe that was the county Sheriff's Department.	17:09
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	17:09
Abraham Smith	He was a deputy.	17:19
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Elton was driving under speed.	17:22
Abraham Smith	Right. And I passed him.	17:22
Robert James Georgia	He passed him.	17:26
Abraham Smith	Then he started.	17:26
Robert James Georgia	He stopped him.	17:26
Abraham Smith	Yep, put me in jail. He didn't give me no ticket. He put me in jail. Yeah.	17:27
Robert James Georgia	Because he know that was Robert Smith's son.	17:30
Abraham Smith	Right. Put me in jail.	17:30
Robert James Georgia	He was driving a pretty car.	17:30
Abraham Smith	Right. Mm-hmm.	17:30
Gregory Hunter	Oh. Okay.	17:30
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	17:30
Abraham Smith	Yes, sir.	17:38
Gregory Hunter	They didn't do those things.	17:38
Abraham Smith	Right.	17:38
Gregory Hunter	Before you passed him, did you have a sense that he was going to do something to you if you did pass him?	17:42
Abraham Smith	Well, I didn't know. He was just riding along and I just went around him. By the time I went around, he hit his siren, whatever.	17:44
Gregory Hunter	Yeah.	17:50
Robert James Georgia	Mm-hmm.	17:50
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	17:51
Gregory Hunter	How long you had to go to jail for?	17:52
Abraham Smith	Well, I got out that same evening. My father come down and get me out. He had a time getting me out of there. They didn't want to let me out.	17:53
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	18:02
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	18:02
Gregory Hunter	What'd they do to try to—What'd they say?	18:02
Abraham Smith	Well, I think they just wanted to charge too much, really. I think he got some White person to talk and they cut it down.	18:02
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	18:10
Abraham Smith	Uh-huh.	18:13
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	18:20
Gregory Hunter	Now, what was it for y'all as kids growing up, I guess, in the '40s, right? Or the late '30s and early '40s? What was it like in Summerton, as young folk?	18:26
Abraham Smith	Well, Summerton always, they never—Well, it was pretty lively at one time there during the early, during the '40s and maybe up into the '50s.	18:47
Gregory Hunter	You said it was lively?	18:54
Abraham Smith	Pretty lively, yeah.	18:54
Gregory Hunter	What does that mean?	18:54
Abraham Smith	On Saturdays, a lot of people would be out, you know in the street.	19:01
Robert James Georgia	Like Main Street?	19:04
Abraham Smith	Yeah. And the Rockwood.	19:05
Robert James Georgia	People would be would be up, all they got, "Excuse me, excuse me."	19:05
Abraham Smith	You is right.	19:05
Robert James Georgia	Just to walk up Main Street.	19:05
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	19:05
Robert James Georgia	Oh, yeah. Because I used to clean the street. Used to clean the street after hours. That was before we had a street sweeper. I used to clean the street twice a week, so on Thursday night and Saturday night. On Saturday night, there used to be a whistle blowing. That's for people to get off the street.	19:14
Gregory Hunter	Oh, a curfew?	19:32
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. A curfew. It blows at a quarter to nine. That's when the stores would close their door. It blow again at 9 o'clock. That's for the people to get off the street.	19:32
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	19:45
Robert James Georgia	That's why, after the second whistle blow and most the people are off the street, my brother and I used to go around and get the wheelbarrow and the broom and start sweeping the street. From the old Walker Theater up there.	19:49
Gregory Hunter	Where was the theater?	20:07
Robert James Georgia	Up there—	20:07
Abraham Smith	On Main Street.	20:07
Robert James Georgia	On Main Street before—	20:07
Abraham Smith	On the end up there on the left. It's gone up.	20:07
Robert James Georgia	Past the second one, past the light, up there on the left. Used to sweep the street from there all the way down to Railroad Avenue, and down to 15 on both sides. We would clean the street on both sides. Had a wheelbarrow picking up trash and carry a lot of junk. We used to make a dollar and a half a night.	20:17
Gregory Hunter	What year is this?	20:43
Robert James Georgia	This was back in the '40s, up until I finished high school.	20:48
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	20:48
Gregory Hunter	Back in '49.	20:48
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, '49 and then I quit being the sweeper. Then there was a truck they used that was sweeping. And a man by the of Ezekiel Wallace started cleaning the streets then. I believe that was about 20 years old after that. $10 every two weeks.	20:48
Gregory Hunter	That's good money. That was good money, back then, huh?	21:11
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	21:14
Abraham Smith	Yeah, man.	21:15
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, $10 every two weeks.	21:15
Abraham Smith	And during the cotton picking season, be so much people in town all around the general, some in their wagons.	21:19
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. All the folks from outside, out in the country, came in?	21:26
Abraham Smith	Right. With the wagons filled with cotton and whatnot. And all up behind the store, they had their wagons hooked up back there.	21:39
Robert James Georgia	Bought the wagon if you ask me. A lot of people back in them days didn't have cars, trucks.	21:46
Gregory Hunter	A lot of horse and buggies?	21:46
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	21:46
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	21:46
Gregory Hunter	What'd the kids do for fun? What'd y'all—Everybody was on the street but what were people doing? You said there was a movie theater. Y'all went to the movies a lot?	21:52
Robert James Georgia	Not a lot.	21:55
Abraham Smith	The movies didn't open up, until around about—	21:55
Robert James Georgia	The weekend.	21:55
Abraham Smith	That could've been. That was in the '40s, I think.	22:05
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	22:05
Abraham Smith	That was in the '40s. Mm-hmm. That about the only place the kids really had to go around, to the movies.	22:13
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	22:16
Abraham Smith	Unless some of the children had a little party at their house or something, that was the only place.	22:19
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	22:20
Abraham Smith	It's just about like that around here, now, to tell you the truth.	22:24
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. After a certain hour, at that. During that time, you can't let them see you on the street.	22:36
Gregory Hunter	Who would blow that big whistle?	22:38
Robert James Georgia	The police, I think.	22:38
Abraham Smith	Police up there.	22:38
Gregory Hunter	They used to drive around the streets and blow the whistle?	22:38
Robert James Georgia	No, the whistle be—	22:38
Abraham Smith	A siren.	22:38
Robert James Georgia	Be a siren. Siren that goes up.	22:38
Abraham Smith	Siren in—	22:38
Gregory Hunter	Oh. Okay.	22:38
Robert James Georgia	Same siren.	22:43
Gregory Hunter	When did they stop doing that?	22:46
Robert James Georgia	What year was that?	22:48
Abraham Smith	It still is. It blows now on Saturday at 12:00. I don't know why they blow it. On Saturday, right now, at 12 o'clock they blow it. I don't know why. Mm-hmm.	22:48
Gregory Hunter	What about school? Y'all talking about school. Where did you go for grade school?	23:01
Abraham Smith	Well, at Scott's Branch.	23:07
Gregory Hunter	Oh. You started from the beginning to the end at Scott's Branch? Both start there?	23:08
Abraham Smith	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	23:09
Robert James Georgia	Scott's Branch because we lived right there.	23:09
Abraham Smith	Though, I went one year to this school up here. I can't even remember the name of that school.	23:09
Robert James Georgia	No. I don't know the name of it because I went up there.	23:09
Abraham Smith	Yeah. I done all of my—	23:30
Robert James Georgia	There used to be a school by St. Mark Church.	23:30
Gregory Hunter	Oh, yeah?	23:30
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Till it burned down.	23:30
Gregory Hunter	Oh. Yeah. I remember something.	23:30
Robert James Georgia	Then, after it burned down, we started going to school. Used to sit by the church.	23:30
Abraham Smith	I can't remember that.	23:34
Robert James Georgia	Until they get the school built up there for—	23:36
Abraham Smith	We did first grade up there in Scott's Branch.	23:37
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Scott's Branch.	23:37
Abraham Smith	I went to first grade down here, too. Mm-hmm.	23:45
Gregory Hunter	So what was school like?	23:46
Robert James Georgia	It was all right.	23:46
Abraham Smith	That being many years ago.	23:46
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	23:46
Abraham Smith	We done graduated now 45 years, and add 10 and 12 onto that, and even small kids.	23:46
Gregory Hunter	Yeah.	23:46
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	23:46
Gregory Hunter	Hard to remember sometimes.	23:46
Abraham Smith	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	24:00
Gregory Hunter	Who were your teachers? Who were the teachers?	24:12
Abraham Smith	Well, we had a principal—At Scott's Branch, well, I don't know. Many years the name Carl Gramison.	24:15
Robert James Georgia	That's Anderson.	24:22
Abraham Smith	Messy Old Anderson was his name.	24:22
Robert James Georgia	Right. Carl, pressed.	24:27
Abraham Smith	Yeah. He leave here and went to Greenville and that's where he died at. I went up there to his funeral. You want some of the teacher's names?	24:27
Gregory Hunter	Yeah.	24:33
Robert James Georgia	First grade teacher was his wife, wasn't it?	24:43
Abraham Smith	Yeah. [indistinct 00:24:46] Earl Nelson's first wife.	24:43
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	24:43
Abraham Smith	Lawrence. I think she's named, something with a Lawrence. Call her Miss Lawrence I know.	24:43
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	24:43
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm. Then this Raines. Because Anderson's wife, he's later married to her.	25:02
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, right.	25:04
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm. Georgia Ragin, Jamie Ragin. Later name was Fence. And there's Varkin.	25:04
Robert James Georgia	There's [indistinct 00:25:28].	25:04
Abraham Smith	There's Raines. Mr. Brock. Never forget Mr. Brock.	25:04
Robert James Georgia	A lot more Summerton teachers.	25:04
Abraham Smith	Derick.	25:04
Robert James Georgia	Yes.	25:04
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	25:04
Gregory Hunter	What was a normal school day like? Describe a normal school day? I know it was a long time ago.	25:04
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Normal school day was we didn't start taking classes unless we get up to high—	26:08
Abraham Smith	High school.	26:08
Robert James Georgia	High school.	26:09
Abraham Smith	Ninth grade, somewhere around there.	26:10
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Ninth grade, start taking classes.	26:11
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	26:11
Robert James Georgia	When we get out for recess and the one who play basketball during high school. We never had a gym. We played on the dirt. That's how we played. So recess was 45 minutes if you take one. When that bell rang, you can come back in the classroom. Get out of school at 3 o'clock. Three, ain't it?	26:11
Abraham Smith	Think it was.	26:41
Robert James Georgia	3 o'clock.	26:41
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	26:41
Robert James Georgia	Then we'd go home and start working in the fields.	26:41
Gregory Hunter	Where did you stay?	26:41
Robert James Georgia	In high school?	26:41
Gregory Hunter	Right.	26:41
Robert James Georgia	At Fourth and the high school. On Second Street after that because—	26:41
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay. Your father had land out in the country?	26:41
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, yeah. We had our own land.	27:00
Gregory Hunter	Y'all owned it?	27:03
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, uh-huh. He got his sharecroppers. I think for [indistinct 00:27:05]—	27:05
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	27:05
Robert James Georgia	—for staying in the Army? Yeah, yeah.	27:05
Gregory Hunter	Y'all owned your own land too, farm?	27:18
Abraham Smith	Yeah. We didn't never run a big farm. We run a small farm. My father rent some and he owned a little. But most, our most business was running business from the store, yeah.	27:22
Gregory Hunter	You said things were lively around here in the '40s and the '50s?	27:35
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	27:40
Abraham Smith	Yeah, we driving.	27:49
Gregory Hunter	When you first started talking, you went right into talking about this, the efforts to desegregate the school. The inspiration and the petitions were started by the NAACP?	27:51
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	28:06
Gregory Hunter	Would y'all talk about that a little? What started the whole movement to try to get the schools integrated?	28:07
Robert James Georgia	Our 12th grade class, our class. That's with Reverend DeLaine. He was something like our advisor. He used to tell us what to do. He advised us, well, he give us, advise us to go and get the name of—Get the people. Let them know to have a meeting. Have a meeting on what was going on around the school. To have meetings and sitting on the school. And that supposedly try to have a movement then.	28:15
Gregory Hunter	You say you're 12th grade class was involved with Reverend DeLaine?	28:56
Robert James Georgia	Right. Yeah, that's when it really started everything.	28:58
Gregory Hunter	Why? Why did it start?	29:02
Robert James Georgia	Because the reason why it started because when they overcharged—	29:05
Abraham Smith	Some students they from out of the district and they wanted to charge them some type of fee before they get their diploma.	29:09
Robert James Georgia	After going to school all year, wanted to charge a fee before they get it.	29:20
Abraham Smith	Right. Mm-hmm. They said that wasn't right. That was the main jumping because they all for a fee.	29:22
Gregory Hunter	Where did Reverend DeLaine come from?	29:33
Robert James Georgia	His home, I think, is right here. Somewhere down by, I think, it's somewhere down by Spring Hill down there, I think.	29:36
Gregory Hunter	Well, he's from [indistinct 00:29:45] somewhere.	29:43
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. He's from this town.	29:46
Gregory Hunter	Right across from the school.	29:49
Robert James Georgia	He used to live right up there. His house got burned down up there.	29:49
Gregory Hunter	Which church was he pastor?	29:53
Robert James Georgia	Spring Hill? I don't know.	29:58
Gregory Hunter	Spring Hill?	29:59
Robert James Georgia	Spring Hill what?	29:59
Abraham Smith	I think at one time he just got—	30:02
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, Spring Hill at one time.	30:02
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm. Yeah.	30:06
Gregory Hunter	Then he became involved in this?	30:08
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	30:10
Gregory Hunter	You said y'all started having meetings and such?	30:10
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, the Whites knew that he was involved and they started threatening him. They started threatening him like how they would burn his house down and whatnot.	30:14
Gregory Hunter	Who?	30:28
Robert James Georgia	Which they did in their own way.	30:28
Gregory Hunter	Which White people?	30:31
Abraham Smith	All of them.	30:31
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, all of them.	30:34
Abraham Smith	All of them.	30:34
Robert James Georgia	After he called up all those peoples what throwed it out in the street, what was threatening him and find out those papers was written, traced to talk about it what kind of those people are and be careful with his car.	30:34
Gregory Hunter	The ones that were threatening him?	30:59
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	30:59
Abraham Smith	There wasn't no Blacks at all in [indistinct 00:31:05].	31:03
Robert James Georgia	There was no Blacks at all, was in the history.	31:04
Abraham Smith	No, none at all.	31:04
Gregory Hunter	They kind of [indistinct 00:31:11].	31:04
Robert James Georgia	Uh-huh. And Houston Davis and, well, what's on the board. I think Houston Davis and Henry, all was on the board.	31:19
Abraham Smith	Asia, one of Asia now.	31:22
Robert James Georgia	Asia.	31:22
Gregory Hunter	These are all White men?	31:22
Robert James Georgia	These are all White. All White board.	31:22
Abraham Smith	All White.	31:22
Gregory Hunter	So that's find out that it came from the district office because that is something we're [indistinct 00:31:38].	31:22
Robert James Georgia	Well, it start going on. Have different meetings, you know, and a lot of joined NAACP. A lot of people joined on the other street. Some of what was loving NAACP, the Whites wanted to take their name off that. You get out of—	31:41
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	32:10
Robert James Georgia	They would really, all integration would be hard. If you didn't do it they'll stop serving them. Stop letting them have things.	32:10
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	32:10
Robert James Georgia	Like Harold Briggs. His name was on there. He wouldn't take his off so he was working at a station, a lot of people they call it St. Clair Station. Right there where the bank is now, it be City Bank name. He stayed with them. So they fire him from that job. He had to leave town, find him something else to do. Joe Richburg, what he used to do? And he had to—	32:16
Abraham Smith	He ran the school, didn't he?	32:43
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, I think Joe Richburg used to work at the school. He was fired. He had to leave town, find something new.	32:48
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	32:52
Robert James Georgia	They—	32:52
Gregory Hunter	Did either of the two of you sign that petition?	32:56
Robert James Georgia	No, we were too young.	32:57
Abraham Smith	We were too young at that time.	33:07
Robert James Georgia	Go to some meetings sometimes. So your name was on that piece and you wouldn't take it off. You're not going to be served by drug stores and some places you can't buy fertilizer and something else. Didn't want to see you.	33:10
Gregory Hunter	What did the petition say?	33:28
Robert James Georgia	Telling everybody what's going on.	33:28
Gregory Hunter	No, the petition there. The Black folks in the NAACP they had, the one that people signed?	33:28
Robert James Georgia	The one that they signed, that was the main one. Was just kind of pushing this meeting thing, pushing this integration.	33:36
Gregory Hunter	Okay. So the begged them, why did people want integration? Because y'all said that a lot of it started because some students were charged extra money. But how did that turn into wanting integration? You know what I mean?	33:36
Abraham Smith	Well, at first they wanted equal.	34:03
Robert James Georgia	Equal rights.	34:07
Gregory Hunter	Like equal facility, equal rights?	34:09
Abraham Smith	Of course, they just wanted equal.	34:10
Gregory Hunter	So was there ever a court case or anything over equal facilities?	34:14
Abraham Smith	Yes. Mm-hmm.	34:18
Gregory Hunter	When was that? Do you remember?	34:18
Abraham Smith	I think that was, it was in the '50s. It had to be in the '50s.	34:18
Gregory Hunter	What was that all about? Did you even go to that?	34:30
Robert James Georgia	No. I was out working all the time. [indistinct 00:34:36].	34:33
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	34:33
Robert James Georgia	I got paid, you had to go.	34:33
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay. You were still around?	34:33
Abraham Smith	Yeah, I was still around. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So after they came in, didn't want to make equal. So there went the whole thing then, you know?	35:00
Gregory Hunter	Did any one person suggest that they try to make integrations that equal?	35:03
Abraham Smith	Well, they come together, whole band of lawyers and the people came together and they saw it. It wasn't no one person. It was a lot of people that signed this thing that we wanted. I blame the [indistinct 00:35:18] one and another lady live over there on [indistinct 00:35:18] Street, Annie, Mrs. Solomon.	35:09
Gregory Hunter	Annie Gibson?	35:17
Abraham Smith	Annie Gibson, yeah. Right. Mrs. Solomon, Mary Oliver. She dead now, though.	35:17
Robert James Georgia	There's a few more. Geraldo signed it.	35:17
Gregory Hunter	Yeah, his name was on there.	35:17
Abraham Smith	His dad had signed it.	35:17
Gregory Hunter	My dad dropped [indistinct 00:35:18].	35:17
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	35:17
Robert James Georgia	That was after fishing.	35:17
Abraham Smith	Fishing for—	35:17
Robert James Georgia	I saw the original petition. Remember the lady that had it up there when [indistinct 00:35:18] interviewed us?	35:17
Abraham Smith	Oh, yeah.	35:17
Robert James Georgia	I don't know where she got it from.	35:17
Abraham Smith	I don't know.	35:17
Gregory Hunter	Who was that?	35:17
Robert James Georgia	The lady that interviewed him and I last year.	35:17
Abraham Smith	Last year.	35:17
Gregory Hunter	She's from Summerton?	35:17
Robert James Georgia	No.	35:17
Abraham Smith	No. I think she's—	35:17
Robert James Georgia	A few of these schools.	35:17
Abraham Smith	Somewhere around, over here.	35:17
Robert James Georgia	Columbia, I believe.	35:17
Gregory Hunter	She had the original petition?	35:17
Abraham Smith	She had a—	35:17
Robert James Georgia	She had a copy of it, one of it. Harriet Bridges' wife, could tell you a lot about things. You know that?	35:18
Abraham Smith	She lives right up the street there.	35:47
Gregory Hunter	Harry Bridges' wife?	35:47
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	35:47
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Harry Bridges. Eliza Bridges.	35:47
Gregory Hunter	That's Harriet. What's her name?	35:47
Abraham Smith	Eliza. Mm-hmm. Yeah, she can tell you all about it.	35:47
Gregory Hunter	[indistinct 00:37:11]. Once people started trying to push for integration, did things change in Summerton? You said you were here.	35:47
Abraham Smith	For a while it got worse.	35:47
Gregory Hunter	That's what I mean. How so?	35:47
Abraham Smith	Yeah. It got worse. Like I said. They wouldn't let people have different things. Wouldn't give them no credit. Won't do this. You just couldn't get nothing unless you had the money and some of them even said they gave them the money.	37:32
Gregory Hunter	Oh, yeah?	37:38
Abraham Smith	That's right.	37:38
Gregory Hunter	Probably turn to bank and stores?	37:38
Abraham Smith	Right. Mm-hmm. Yes, sir.	37:38
Gregory Hunter	Because of that, did a lot of people decide not to sign the petition?	37:48
Abraham Smith	They let even somebody went back and take the name off. It seem like. I can't remember. Seem like somebody went back and take the name off. People down in Davis Station were on that thing. Just some of the Pearsons down there.	37:57
Gregory Hunter	Some of the who?	38:06
Abraham Smith	Pearsons.	38:06
Gregory Hunter	What'd they do?	38:10
Abraham Smith	They frowned.	38:11
Gregory Hunter	They took their name off of this?	38:13
Abraham Smith	No, I don't think they take their name off it. I said, it seemed like it was someone that took their name off of it.	38:14
Robert James Georgia	Hey, brother. Y'all about to leave. I don't [indistinct 00:38:25]. Joe Richburg used to teach this.	38:24
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	38:25
Robert James Georgia	Edward's son.	38:25
Gregory Hunter	Farming?	38:25
Robert James Georgia	Back in, what did they teach?	38:25
Abraham Smith	About farming and—	38:25
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, about farming and next thing you know George [indistinct 00:38:43].	38:35
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	38:44
Robert James Georgia	And they cut him off completely. They give it to his brother-in-law. Otherwise, did [indistinct 00:38:54] Joe Richburg and Russell Johnson. He was teaching and he did not have an education.	38:44
Abraham Smith	That's right.	38:53
Gregory Hunter	Is Russell Johnson still living?	38:53
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, he's still living.	38:53
Gregory Hunter	Wow. Why?	38:53
Robert James Georgia	He's more than [indistinct 00:39:08]. That's new to him.	38:53
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	38:53
Robert James Georgia	In the brick house.	38:53
Gregory Hunter	Yeah, okay.	38:53
Robert James Georgia	Give it to him and he didn't [indistinct 00:39:16] because, see, he took the name off.	38:53
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	38:53
Abraham Smith	George probably didn't speak to them. Unless John [indistinct 00:39:26]. Pretty much be there, have to be there [indistinct 00:39:30]	38:53
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, how it started, we have to leave here. Couldn't get the money to finish college. Leave here, go to Baltimore. He worked, saved up the money and had his house finished. Left for Baltimore. I didn't know. He had the flooring down. Had the brick started and the flooring on top there. And [indistinct 00:39:58] weather so much the floors started to buckle and they had to [indistinct 00:40:00].	38:53
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay. What are the—	38:53
Robert James Georgia	And the [indistinct 00:40:07] used to try to run over you. They tried to run over my Mom and my Daddy walking home one night. Run them off the road after following me to prayer. Shoot them. Right out of his left [indistinct 00:40:27] had a shotgun. We call it took a shot. They left, they were walking home and they tried to run over.	40:13
Gregory Hunter	They do that a lot?	40:31
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, oh, yeah. And it get kind of when you off the road, they showed us if you walk the road [indistinct 00:40:39].	40:31
Abraham Smith	Nothing. It wouldn't do no good to go over there and tell them then.	40:31
Robert James Georgia	It would do no good to tell them, wouldn't it?	40:31
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	40:31
Gregory Hunter	Why is that?	40:31
Robert James Georgia	Can't do nothing about it.	40:31
Abraham Smith	Wouldn't do a thing about it.	40:31
Robert James Georgia	Not a thing.	40:31
Abraham Smith	During that time, all the polices and everything was lily white.	41:02
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	41:05
Abraham Smith	Everything. [indistinct 00:41:07] nothing at all. Nothing but that [indistinct 00:41:12].	41:05
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	41:14
Abraham Smith	That's the only thing that had a voice.	41:14
Gregory Hunter	What were some of the worst jobs for Black people?	41:18
Robert James Georgia	Worst jobs?	41:21
Gregory Hunter	The worst. People that the jobs that nobody really wanted but some people had to have. The ones that were either the hardest or the lowest paying. Or the most—The lowest kind of job.	41:22
Robert James Georgia	Sharecropping, I believe. Sharecropping what wasn't [indistinct 00:41:42].	41:40
Gregory Hunter	On the farm.	41:45
Abraham Smith	Wind up owing the man.	41:45
Robert James Georgia	Wind up owing the man what you working for.	41:45
Gregory Hunter	No. What are the other jobs?	41:53
Abraham Smith	A lot of them work over at that mill over there.	42:01
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, the saw mill.	42:03
Abraham Smith	Saw mill is over there.	42:04
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, he's working for saw mill. It had a commissary.	42:07
Abraham Smith	Say what?	42:10
Robert James Georgia	You got a commissary, what is this? A group store, something I ate.	42:11
Gregory Hunter	You got to buy all your stuff there?	42:18
Robert James Georgia	Well, a lot would buy stuff there and they put it on the book, negative. A lot of them keep track of what they bought. They charge them with a water charge.	42:19
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	42:28
Abraham Smith	They charge a carrying charge and they working for them.	42:28
Gregory Hunter	Yeah. Did a lot of people work in the farm?	42:29
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, lots to do.	42:29
Abraham Smith	Yeah, sure did. Good pick, good pick.	42:29
Robert James Georgia	Had different kind of jobs. Black, yeah, some of them saw mill and gin I'll be working.	42:29
Gregory Hunter	[indistinct 00:42:29]?	42:29
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	42:29
Gregory Hunter	For gin?	42:29
Robert James Georgia	Cotton gin.	42:29
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	42:29
Robert James Georgia	Sawmill and the cotton gin.	42:39
Gregory Hunter	Was that also sort of a rough job, both of those?	42:49
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. It was a hard job. It didn't pay [indistinct 00:42:58].	42:55
Abraham Smith	They didn't make no money.	42:59
Gregory Hunter	What were some of the best jobs for Black people?	43:00
Robert James Georgia	There really ain't no good jobs.	43:01
Abraham Smith	What y'all rate?	43:05
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, right.	43:07
Abraham Smith	Teacher or something. She didn't pay the teacher to learn that much back then. Yes, sir. Wasn't no good job. If you wanted a good job, you had go from here. That be why so many people leave. Plenty of people used to be around here. All of them leave.	43:18
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	43:27
Abraham Smith	All of them up the road now.	43:29
Gregory Hunter	Oh, yeah?	43:33
Robert James Georgia	Soon as they place high school they go.	43:33
Abraham Smith	Right.	43:33
Robert James Georgia	They not going to college.	43:33
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	43:33
Gregory Hunter	What about owning your own farm? That's the secret.	43:33
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. That's where you can get direct thing. You will ever going to pay cash for it, buy the fertilizer [indistinct 00:43:47] deal with the farm. A lot of people wonder how they could do that. Yeah.	43:43
Gregory Hunter	You said your father bought a tractor and some other farm goods?	44:00
Robert James Georgia	A wagon.	44:03
Gregory Hunter	Oh, a wagon.	44:04
Robert James Georgia	Two-horse wagon. Like mules, he bought a mule and a good horse. [indistinct 00:44:26] instead. A ways from McLeary.	44:25
Gregory Hunter	How did you save up money to buy that stuff?	44:25
Robert James Georgia	See when he got them, he could've paid so much down and the farm season paid so much more next year. Next farm year, pay so much more if he get paid for them.	44:25
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:44:33].	44:32
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. So after my dad was a member of the NAACP, by the time paying a part of what he's supposed to pay, they wouldn't accept that. You had to pay it all or they going to take that wagon back. So that's what happened.	44:32
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:44:57].	44:56
Robert James Georgia	So his daddy, my father get money from his daddy. Get together and pay that.	44:56
Gregory Hunter	When the Black farmers started getting a tractor and things like that?	45:07
Robert James Georgia	What deal is it?	45:21
Abraham Smith	That all [indistinct 00:45:22].	45:21
Robert James Georgia	Now, one or two of them had to have that.	45:21
Abraham Smith	Yeah, one of them.	45:21
Robert James Georgia	Not very many because—	45:21
Abraham Smith	Not very many.	45:21
Robert James Georgia	William Ragin, he had to fight. And [indistinct 00:45:28] he had a fight.	45:25
Gregory Hunter	Where do some of them live.	45:36
Robert James Georgia	Rural. When we rigged the ride, some of them head West. Some of, not far [indistinct 00:45:47]. His land was joining ours and McDonald's lived, he was [indistinct 00:45:52]?	45:38
Abraham Smith	Over in—	45:52
Robert James Georgia	You know where Brother McDonald lives?	45:52
Gregory Hunter	Yeah.	45:52
Robert James Georgia	Well, that was Brother had—Sorry about this. They had [indistinct 00:45:52].	45:52
Gregory Hunter	Okay.	45:52
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	45:52
Gregory Hunter	But then more Black folks are trying to grow their own?	46:07
Robert James Georgia	Half of that didn't—	46:09
Abraham Smith	Yeah. Few of them, yeah.	46:10
Gregory Hunter	Yeah. Most of them would buy the same way, put some money down and then pay it?	46:15
Abraham Smith	Yeah, they paid for it.	46:16
Robert James Georgia	After the Whites see where they couldn't pull them down far as money, I guess, money, just pull us down [indistinct 00:46:25]. Although, I assume they paid more than what the Black man paid for.	46:19
Abraham Smith	Oh, yeah.	46:30
Robert James Georgia	They can't take more.	46:30
Gregory Hunter	Um—	46:30

Gregory Hunter	What would fellas do if you like a girl? What would you do to try to get in touch with her at all?	0:03
Abraham Smith	You had to go to her house or send her a message or write her a note, but ain't no phones. Just very few Black people had a phone. Very few.	0:16
Gregory Hunter	Had a what? A phone?	0:21
Abraham Smith	A telephone. You had to go to her house or maybe see her in school or whatnot. Write her a note. That was it, if you wanted to get in touch with her.	0:23
Robert James Georgia	Back in them days if your parents had a car—When I was a young man, you couldn't stay out but so late at night. Maybe he couldn't either.	0:40
Abraham Smith	Right.	0:48
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, we couldn't go.	0:48
Abraham Smith	Right.	0:50
Robert James Georgia	At sundown, up till I was 17 and 18 years old, I had to be home by 9:00. Say, before sundown I had to be on the [indistinct 00:01:06] all the things, cut wood. We didn't have any light at this time. We had a stove. And so, my father used to let me have the car. Maybe, be home before night. Give you 50 cents. And the most they give you is [indistinct 00:01:31].	0:51
Abraham Smith	Yeah, if you get that. I remember my daddy give me a quarter, man. I thought I was rich.	1:31
Robert James Georgia	Right.	1:34
Gregory Hunter	What would y'all do on the weekend? Once you got the car and the quarter or fifty cent, what would you have done?	1:35
Robert James Georgia	I'd go to see [indistinct 00:01:39].	1:38
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	1:38
Robert James Georgia	[indistinct 00:01:39]	1:38
Abraham Smith	Yes, sir.	1:38
Robert James Georgia	Before if you walk, you can't get the car, then I may ride the mule.	1:38
Abraham Smith	And if you didn't have no car, you don't see her.	1:55
Robert James Georgia	That's right. Don't see [indistinct 00:02:03].	2:01
Abraham Smith	If she live off from me or whatever you didn't see her till back in school the next—	2:07
Robert James Georgia	Right, right.	2:10
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	2:11
Gregory Hunter	How did you meet your wife?	2:13
Abraham Smith	How did I meet her? Well, I tell you, we practically raised up right here Summerton all together. I used to live—Or right even the city limits. She be living right in the city limits right around the [indistinct 00:02:32]. Practically raised up together. I graduated one year ahead of her. I been knowing her all my life. She been knowing me all her life.	2:14
Gregory Hunter	How did y'all come together, then?	2:45
Abraham Smith	Well—	2:46
Gregory Hunter	I'm sure you were raised up with a lot of other girls.	2:46
Abraham Smith	A lot of other girls—(laughs).	2:54
Abraham Smith	Yeah. Well, I tell you what, I used to go with one of her best friends. I thought—	2:54
Gregory Hunter	Did you?	2:55
Abraham Smith	Yeah. I used to go with one of her best friends.	3:02
Gregory Hunter	Oh, yeah?	3:05
Abraham Smith	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	3:12
Gregory Hunter	And what happened?	3:12
Abraham Smith	Well, we had some kind of disagreement. And she finally left here and then I started going with this one, my wife.	3:12
Gregory Hunter	Oh.	3:22
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm. How it really started, I tell you what, I took her to a basketball game one night in Elloree. Ever since then, we going out together every now and then til we finally tied the knot. Mm-hmm. Right.	3:25
Gregory Hunter	Are you married, Mr. George?	3:38
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	3:38
Gregory Hunter	How'd you meet your wife?	3:38
Robert James Georgia	I met my wife in Baltimore, Maryland.	3:38
Gregory Hunter	Okay.	3:38
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. I was working there. It was [indistinct 00:04:00]. And she used to cook for us here. She used to cook for me. So, that's the way I married my cook. (all laugh)	4:03
Abraham Smith	Married your cook.	4:09
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	4:09
Gregory Hunter	She used to cook at the job?	4:09
Robert James Georgia	At her house.	4:16
Gregory Hunter	Uh-huh.	4:17
Robert James Georgia	[indistinct 00:04:19] so I ended up marrying her. She was older than I was when I married her. I suppose it seemed like I just married her just to have somebody to sleep with. (Smith laughs). We only stayed together for two years.	4:20
Gregory Hunter	Oh yeah? Did you get married again?	4:36
Robert James Georgia	I got married again in Florida. So, me and my wife again now, we together now. 30, 38 and [indistinct 00:04:49].	4:37
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay. So you went to Miami after [indistinct 00:04:50]?	4:48
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. [indistinct 00:04:53]. Miami is the [indistinct 00:05:00].	4:48
Gregory Hunter	What'd you do there?	4:48
Robert James Georgia	I did construction.	4:48
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay. Mr. Bay, have you ever lived outside of Summerton?	5:06
Abraham Smith	No. Never did. Never did. Always lived right in Summerton.	5:08
Gregory Hunter	You have brothers and sisters?	5:17
Abraham Smith	I have one brother and one sister.	5:18
Gregory Hunter	And they stay in Summerton too?	5:20
Abraham Smith	Yeah, but my brother stayed there for a while and my sister stayed there for a while. Yeah, my sister stay because she been in school. Then she moved on up to Greenville. She up there right now. And my brother live in New York. He stayed around here. Oh, he leave here about '56 or seven, somewhere around there.	5:23
Gregory Hunter	Oh.	5:48
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	5:48
Gregory Hunter	You, you have brothers. I know you have a brother. You have any sisters?	5:52
Robert James Georgia	I have two sisters. One live in Baltimore, Maryland. The other live in here.	5:54
Gregory Hunter	Don't you have a brother?	5:57
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. I got five boys. My oldest brother, he retired. He was living in Florida. He moved back. And Leroy, he's on disability, he used to live in Florida. I have one brother, he's still in Lauderdale. He had retired. [indistinct 00:06:29] he's on disability [indistinct 00:06:30]. But I retired [indistinct 00:06:34] I work here. As I move back in '76, I was living up [indistinct 00:06:36]. I move back in '76. [indistinct 00:06:46].	6:06
Gregory Hunter	When did a lot of Black people start leaving Summerton? A lot of people left right after they graduated high school.	6:48
Robert James Georgia	Right after they get out of high school they left.	6:50
Abraham Smith	My goodness. No, some of them left the same day.	6:55
Robert James Georgia	That's right.	6:56
Gregory Hunter	Oh yeah?	6:56
Abraham Smith	Yeah. That's right. Mm-hmm.	6:57
Gregory Hunter	But a lot of them went to places like New York?	7:01
Abraham Smith	New York, Baltimore, Florida.	7:01
Robert James Georgia	Because it wasn't no decent jobs for young kid.	7:05
Abraham Smith	Wasn't nothing to do.	7:09
Robert James Georgia	Nothing to do.	7:19
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	7:19
Robert James Georgia	[indistinct 00:07:20].	7:19
Gregory Hunter	Uh-huh. When World War II happened, were y'all drafted to the war?	7:20
Abraham Smith	No.	7:26
Gregory Hunter	Y'all were too young.	7:26
Abraham Smith	I was too young. Young in World War II. I registered for the Korean War, I think. I registered, but I didn't pass.	7:26
Robert James Georgia	I didn't pass either.	7:26
Gregory Hunter	Oh yeah?	7:26
Abraham Smith	My brother went in service.	7:26
Gregory Hunter	Any other things that y'all can think off that I may not have asked [indistinct 00:07:55]. I think that there're a lot of other questions I have, but I want to find out what's on y'all minds today. What other things that y'all can think of [indistinct 00:08:05].	7:57
Abraham Smith	Yeah, I know, he and I couldn't tell you, but talking about my mom right now and ask some questions. I'm not going to answer some of them.	8:04
Gregory Hunter	You not going answer that? You were saying?	8:04
Abraham Smith	No, I wasn't saying anything—	8:04
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	8:15
Abraham Smith	Just thinking really.	8:36
Gregory Hunter	What other kind of work did you two do? You say you were doing farm with your family?	8:42
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. [indistinct 00:08:51].	8:47
Gregory Hunter	Uh-huh. Did you do any other kind? You said you [indistinct 00:08:55] streets too.	8:52
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. I worked for his dad's [indistinct 00:09:00]. When I was going to school, I used to work for Jeff Davis, [indistinct 00:09:12]. Then I working for Greg [indistinct 00:09:14]. After I got out of school, I went to Baltimore [indistinct 00:09:20] and I started working. First job I had was [indistinct 00:09:26]. After that, I worked [indistinct 00:09:31] make marinades. [indistinct 00:09:31]. And I left Baltimore. I came home and stayed for a while. Then from there, I moved to Miami, Florida and I started doing construction work.	8:55
Gregory Hunter	What made you want to leave South Carolina? Same reason y'all came here?	9:53
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Wasn't nothing for me to do. [indistinct 00:09:59]. Yeah, went to Baltimore and start working. [indistinct 00:10:07]. For the job, I went onto, made $40. That was amazing how much money. It was amazing how much money I had like this. Two $20 bills, $40. I didn't know, I was paid $6 a week [indistinct 00:10:21], $6 a week. I had all that extra money on my own.	9:56
Abraham Smith	Praising the Lord that day.	10:16
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Yeah. $40 a week.	10:21
Abraham Smith	Mm-hmm.	10:23
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	10:37
Gregory Hunter	Y'all remember the [indistinct 00:10:42]?	10:40
Robert James Georgia	I didn't see him [indistinct 00:10:47] that long. After that [indistinct 00:10:49]. And you see [indistinct 00:10:54] over there.	10:46
Gregory Hunter	Oh yeah?	10:55
Robert James Georgia	[indistinct 00:10:56]. Quite a few times [indistinct 00:10:59]. I had never seen him [indistinct 00:11:01] over there.	10:56
Gregory Hunter	They never did anything here?	11:01
Robert James Georgia	Not that I recall.	11:03
Gregory Hunter	What year do you remember seeing your pastor?	11:08
Robert James Georgia	[indistinct 00:11:18] all this going on and after doing the [indistinct 00:11:18]. And everything early '60s.	11:18
Gregory Hunter	What would y'all do when y'all saw Pat [indistinct 00:11:25]?	11:23
Abraham Smith	They probably—	11:24
Robert James Georgia	[indisctinct 00:11:31] do nothing really, just look at him.	11:31
Gregory Hunter	Was afraid or he just said—	11:35
Robert James Georgia	Some of them told like—	11:35
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:11:36] because they see him pass. [indistinct 00:11:40].	11:35
Gregory Hunter	Oh yeah?	11:39
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	11:49
Abraham Smith	Yes, sir. Yeah.	11:55
Gregory Hunter	You can call him [indistinct 00:12:00]? Earlier maybe?	11:56
Abraham Smith	No. I don't remember seeing any. [indistinct 00:12:05] by the main road. I didn't want to see him. [indistinct 00:12:13].	12:00
Gregory Hunter	Y'all remember much about your grandparents? In the days [indistinct 00:12:17]. The early, early days.	12:13
Robert James Georgia	I remember my grandmother on my father side. And I can remember my grandpa, but I was so small. I can remember granddaddy on my mother's side.	12:19
Gregory Hunter	Uh-huh.	12:28
Robert James Georgia	They used to farm [indistinct 00:12:36]. Used to go up there and fish. [indistinct 00:12:42]. I ain't never [indistinct 00:12:43]. But he used to give us a nickel [indistinct 00:12:43].	12:32
Gregory Hunter	Yeah?	12:42
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. I was [indistinct 00:12:43].	12:42
Gregory Hunter	Where did he live?	12:43
Robert James Georgia	He lived at [indistinct 00:13:05] not far from him. [indistinct 00:13:07]. He live on this side of the road and they live on that side of the road. You see, my grandfather and his father are brothers.	12:46
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	13:15
Robert James Georgia	Uh-huh.	13:16
Gregory Hunter	Yeah. You remember your grandfather [indistinct 00:13:23]?	13:17
Abraham Smith	I can barely remember my granddaddy on my daddy side. But my granddaddy on my mother's side, I can remember him. And he lived out [indistinct 00:13:43]. And he was a farmer. I can remember when he was fighting os hard to get radish [indistinctwhat 00:13:50] he can afford. And he finally got radish to grow. He used to come out there. He was [indistinct 00:13:53].	13:22
Gregory Hunter	What's that?	13:52
Abraham Smith	He used to ride a mule and [indistinct 00:13:53].	13:52
Gregory Hunter	Uh-huh.	13:52
Abraham Smith	Put a [indistinct 00:13:53]. He had a big farm.	13:52
Gregory Hunter	And when did he register [indistinct 00:13:53]? Do you remember?	13:52
Abraham Smith	That's [indistinct 00:13:53]. What color it was?	13:53
Robert James Georgia	[indistinct 00:13:54] back in the fifties. Back in '50.	13:53
Abraham Smith	It seem like [indistinct 00:13:54] stay in school and I got ready to see him [indistinct 00:14:02]. Then he had to go up there and read the [indistinct 00:14:41] Constitution for you [indistinct 00:14:41].	13:54
Robert James Georgia	[indistinct 00:14:41].	14:38
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:14:41].	14:38
Gregory Hunter	Oh yeah?	14:38
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. You had to read a part of the Constitution.	14:41
Gregory Hunter	Who would you read it in front of?	14:42
Robert James Georgia	Folks that was in there doing the registering. I can't remember who it was. White folk, and not Black.	14:53
Gregory Hunter	Uh-huh.	14:58
Robert James Georgia	Mm-hmm. Yeah. I always remember what I read that day.	15:05
Gregory Hunter	What? What was that?	15:07
Robert James Georgia	"No person will be jailed for debt, except in case of fraud." That's what they had me to read. "No person will be jailed for debt, except in case of fraud."	15:16
Abraham Smith	Was that right?	15:21
Robert James Georgia	Mm-hmm.	15:22
Gregory Hunter	Do you remember when you registered?	15:22
Abraham Smith	Yeah, but I didn't have to read anything.	15:25
Gregory Hunter	No?	15:26
Abraham Smith	They asked me questions on [indistinct 00:15:37].	15:26
Gregory Hunter	What kind of questions?	15:37
Abraham Smith	Where you was born and all.	15:39
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	15:39
Abraham Smith	Whether you were Black or White.	15:43
Gregory Hunter	They asked you whether you were Black or White?	15:44
Abraham Smith	Yeah. [indistinct 00:15:47] Black and White.	15:46
Gregory Hunter	Did any Black people who ever try to run for a local government or try to become police officers or anything back before the sixties?	15:52
Abraham Smith	Yeah. It was a police back then.	16:00
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	16:00
Abraham Smith	David Lawson, yeah.	16:00
Robert James Georgia	Dave Stoops, I believe.	16:04
Gregory Hunter	David Lawson?	16:09
Abraham Smith	Yeah. He was Police.	16:10
Gregory Hunter	And who else?	16:14
Robert James Georgia	And then [indistinct 00:16:16] Stoops. That's all I know. I think he got another name.	16:15
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	16:15
Gregory Hunter	And how was that?	16:15
Robert James Georgia	And then they couldn't lock up the White people.	16:15
Gregory Hunter	Oh yeah?	16:26
Robert James Georgia	The Blacks.	16:27
Abraham Smith	That's right.	16:28
Robert James Georgia	That's all they locked up, Black people.	16:29
Gregory Hunter	Did the Black people like that?	16:34
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	16:36
Robert James Georgia	And they liked David Lawson.	16:36
Abraham Smith	They liked [indistinct 00:16:42].	16:36
Gregory Hunter	They were both from Summerton?	16:49
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	16:50
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. But these ones live out here, they call it River Road. These dudes all live out here. Like on the [indistinct 00:17:00] out there.	16:50
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay.	17:01
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	17:01
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:17:20] was he a police out here?	17:01
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, I ain't hear. I remember him being [indistinct 00:17:29].	17:22
Gregory Hunter	What'd you say?	17:22
Robert James Georgia	No, he was just asking me about [indistinct 00:17:33] police out there. I don't remember him being on here, but he might've been a helper one time.	17:33
Gregory Hunter	What does that mean?	17:44
Robert James Georgia	He just helping my [indistinct 00:17:45].	17:44
Abraham Smith	He was the type of person you could rough up your own color. You know, [indistinct 00:17:48] each other. [indistinct 00:17:49]. Yeah, Mexican Police.	17:45
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	17:55
Gregory Hunter	Y'all went to church every Sunday?	17:58
Robert James Georgia	Not every Sunday. Go pretty good sometimes. I really didn't start going to church regular about maybe 10, 12 years ago really.	18:00
Gregory Hunter	Is that right?	18:13
Robert James Georgia	Mm-hmm.	18:14
Gregory Hunter	Was church a big—I mean was church something really important?	18:16
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:18:16].	18:16
Gregory Hunter	Was church something that was real important?	18:16
Robert James Georgia	Yes. Yes, it all is important.	18:16
Gregory Hunter	Which church did y'all go to? Y'all went to the same church?	18:18
Robert James Georgia	Well, I used to go to the same church. But now, I go right up here to [indistinct 00:18:28] church.	18:26
Gregory Hunter	What church y'all used to go?	18:26
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:18:28].	18:26
Gregory Hunter	Oh, okay. [indistinct 00:18:37] most of the people from town went to that one?	18:27
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. And [indistinct 00:18:41].	18:38
Gregory Hunter	Oh.	18:38
Speaker 1	Hello.	18:38
Gregory Hunter	How you doing?	18:38
Abraham Smith	Hey.	18:38
Speaker 1	How you doing?	18:38
Abraham Smith	All right.	18:38
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	18:46
Speaker 1	Key?	18:49
Gregory Hunter	[indistinct 00:18:49].	18:49
Abraham Smith	Back when we were small, we had to go to church.	18:49
Robert James Georgia	That's right.	18:55
Abraham Smith	We had to go.	18:55
Robert James Georgia	Yes, sir. Make you go.	18:55
Abraham Smith	Yeah. You know anything about the old days?	18:56
Speaker 1	[indistinct 00:19:03].	19:03
Abraham Smith	Oh yes?	19:03
Speaker 1	Yeah. I guess you talk about [indistinct 00:19:03].	19:03
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	19:03
Gregory Hunter	Did y'all travel much early on?	19:03
Robert James Georgia	Travel?	19:03
Gregory Hunter	Yeah. Like some of these people out there. I know you did, because you [indistinct 00:19:03]. What happened before that, you ever left [indistinct 00:19:04]?	19:03
Abraham Smith	No. I left. I be with my mom and daddy. Like you go to [indistinct 00:19:04] in Columbia.	19:03
Gregory Hunter	What'd you go to Columbia for?	19:03
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:19:04]. I knew I drove him over there to go to the doctor [indistinct 00:19:04].	19:03
Gregory Hunter	How about you [indistinct 00:19:19]?	19:03
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Well, I was grown. [indistinct 00:19:59], but I'm grown now. Doesn't matter since. I've never been up [indistinct 00:20:10].	19:19
Gregory Hunter	What'd you think about Baltimore when you [indistinct 00:20:13] back there.	20:09
Abraham Smith	When I first moved to Baltimore, I was amazed where people live, you know?	20:15
Robert James Georgia	Me too.	20:18
Abraham Smith	All the brick buildings, they was joined together. And I didn't think I was at the house. [indistinct 00:20:28]. I was amazed where—It was amazing.	20:19
Robert James Georgia	Then you go to the back streets, people living back there. [indistinct 00:20:39].	20:35
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	20:38
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. I know the back. I call it back. That it is—	20:39
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:20:49].	20:48
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Lord have mercy. [indistinct 00:20:55] them boys been living there. They ain't balling.	20:49
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	20:55
Robert James Georgia	Mm-hmm. Yes, sir.	20:55
Gregory Hunter	What are some of the things that y'all missed about the earlier days?	21:01
Robert James Georgia	The early days?	21:02
Gregory Hunter	Mm-hmm. As far back as, you know, when you were younger. Can you think of anything? Or maybe back when the time things changed. Same thing. Since the thirties and the forties.	21:09
Robert James Georgia	It changed drastically.	21:25
Gregory Hunter	How so? Explain.	21:25
Robert James Georgia	It's just different. I mean, back in our time, if you wanted something like a small thing as a milkshake, you couldn't get it.	21:38
Gregory Hunter	Couldn't get it from where?	21:48
Robert James Georgia	Wasn't nowhere to get it from. They used to sell it in the drugstore, but they wouldn't sell it for Colored children then.	21:49
Gregory Hunter	Couldn't even go in and buy a milkshake?	21:54
Robert James Georgia	No.	21:56
Abraham Smith	And Coca Cola. You couldn't buy Coca Cola.	21:56
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	21:56
Gregory Hunter	You talking about the Coke soda?	21:58
Abraham Smith	Yeah, you couldn't buy a Coke. White people drink Coke.	22:04
Gregory Hunter	No matter where you were, you couldn't get a Coke?	22:06
Robert James Georgia	Yeah.	22:08
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:22:11].	22:08
Robert James Georgia	Like these trips out here, they be going out for food still. They have a little room on the back big enough for like five people to get in. They had to go back there to order what you want. Bus station stand would have, sandwich. Now you can go anywhere and get what you want.	22:11
Gregory Hunter	How did those kind of things, you know, those signs of segregation, unequal facilities, how did they make that feel?	22:33
Abraham Smith	During that time, like the bus stations, Blacks sit on this side and the Whites sit in the rest of that side. [indistinct 00:22:57]. And they had a phone in there when it ring. And during back that time, when we were young, [indistinct 00:23:10] we thought that's how it's supposed to be.	22:40
Robert James Georgia	Right.	23:08
Abraham Smith	Then, we thought that's the way it's supposed to be.	23:12
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	23:13
Abraham Smith	And then [indistinct 00:23:19] called her, it's like you would go into [indistinct 00:23:24] you could go around to the back, the back, you could do it all the time. And even order it from the front, like you go to go to the [indistinct 00:23:31] and pay like they way you pay for gas. It's the door right here when you go in [indistinct 00:23:37]. You can go in from that door. [indistinct 00:23:40] stop right at the door and order right here. Never go in and tell them what you want. You can't go in the store.	23:22
Robert James Georgia	That's right.	23:44
Gregory Hunter	Any Black folks who ever try to do something they wasn't supposed to do like try to go into a White restaurant and go in and try to sit down and eat? Or go try to sit down in the White part of the bus station or—	23:48
Robert James Georgia	Back in the early days there wasn't the chair. Back in the sixties [indistinct 00:24:07], some of them tried.	24:01
Gregory Hunter	But not in the earlier parts.	24:09
Robert James Georgia	Not in the early days. Movies, say, had that movie over there, the Whites sit downstairs, Blacks sit up in the balcony.	24:10
Abraham Smith	They had chairs downstairs for the White that weren't hard.	24:26
Robert James Georgia	Cushioned chairs.	24:26
Abraham Smith	Cushioned chairs for the White. They had a little bench upstairs like it was like a baseball game [indistinct 00:24:37].	24:33
Gregory Hunter	Did you have to pay the same amount to get in?	24:36
Abraham Smith	Yeah, I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't know but I reckon.	24:38
Robert James Georgia	Yes, sir.	24:48
Gregory Hunter	What do you think is those kinds when you say there's more freedom to that. You can do whatever you want to do. Go where you want to go. What other things have changed?	24:57
Abraham Smith	Right now, you can just go where you want to go. But they really don't care too much about—	25:13
Robert James Georgia	They don't care [indistinct 00:25:24].	25:23
Abraham Smith	Eat in those places. Like some of the diners down there, they don't care too much whether you come in or not. Go in the diner.	25:23
Gregory Hunter	Uh-huh.	25:24
Abraham Smith	They let Black people come in. They can't just run them out.	25:32
Gregory Hunter	Did a lot of Black people go in there?	25:32
Robert James Georgia	I see them going there. I never been in there. I been in there one time I think. Mm-hmm. But some different people running them that's what's running it now. I see them people traveling stop by there, ain't no Black people. Not many people out of town go there, not Black. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like the motels, Black people couldn't even go into the motel.	25:37
Gregory Hunter	[indistinct 00:26:10] Blacks in the motel.	25:55
Robert James Georgia	No, they couldn't go in the motel.	25:55
Gregory Hunter	Say for instance somebody came to visit town. Remember when you said that all the [indistinct 00:26:20] and things like that were coming in. Where did all those people stay?	26:15
Robert James Georgia	I imagine they had houses. Black people had boarding houses around here. And they didn't have any to stay if they had to stay overnight. If they were Black, the couldn't go in them motels.	26:26
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:26:28] motels.	26:27
Robert James Georgia	Yup. A lot of people, Black people used to have a place to stay, they call it boarding houses. [indistinct 00:26:28] place like that. Mm-hmm.	26:27
Gregory Hunter	Do you remember any of the lawyers from the NAACP who came here during the sixties?	27:06
Robert James Georgia	Thurgood, here. Of course, the name of him, I can't remember the name.	27:07
Gregory Hunter	Thurgood Marshall was there?	27:08
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, he was here.	27:09
Gregory Hunter	Who did he stay with?	27:09
Robert James Georgia	That I don't know. But he [indistinct 00:27:14]. I don't know where he stayed.	27:12
Gregory Hunter	But how long was he here?	27:15
Robert James Georgia	I know he was there one night and I don't know whether he went back the same night or what happened. I was young and that didn't make too much difference to me, really.	27:20
Gregory Hunter	Yeah. Just remember it.	27:26
Robert James Georgia	Mm-hmm.	27:26
Gregory Hunter	Were there White lawyers?	27:26
Robert James Georgia	Seem like it has been White lawyers coming down there. Seem like it was. Mm-hmm.	27:38
Gregory Hunter	How long—you said your father was in the NAACP. How long was the NAACP in Summerton [indistinct 00:27:45]?	27:42
Robert James Georgia	A long time. We just [indistinct 00:27:45]. In the fifties I think when this [indistinct 00:27:45]. And when we start paying attention to it, you know? Yeah.	27:44
Gregory Hunter	Were there any other organizations like the [indistinct 00:28:14]?	28:06
Robert James Georgia	No. Not that I know of.	28:12
Gregory Hunter	[indistinct 00:28:24] all the churches have [indistinct 00:28:24]?	28:12
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. All the churches. Mm-hmm. I say all the churches [indistinct 00:28:33]. They all knew. Mm-hmm. There's a lotta people right now. Lotta Black people right now that [indistinct 00:28:34].	28:23
Gregory Hunter	In [indistinct 00:28:34]?	28:33
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	28:33
Gregory Hunter	Oh yeah, [indistinct 00:28:34]. How come?	28:33
Robert James Georgia	I don't know. The [indistinct 00:28:34] I call it.	28:33
Abraham Smith	Yeah. And then a lot of them, they would let these White people get to him and encourage him not to be a member of—	28:33
Robert James Georgia	Right. Some of them scared to do it [indistinct 00:29:10].	28:46
Abraham Smith	[indistinct 00:29:13]. Yes, indeed.	29:07
Gregory Hunter	What do y'all see the future of Summerton now? Where do you see Summerton going in the next [indistinct 00:29:25] 20th Century, what's going to happen in Summerton? Things are going to stay the same or you think something's going happen or—	29:21
Robert James Georgia	I'd say too, it's been going down over there.	29:35
Abraham Smith	It's been going down.	29:36
Robert James Georgia	Because they had so many years now. I mean the last 15, 20 years it's been going down.	29:38
Gregory Hunter	Going down how? A lotta jobs are being lost?	29:47
Robert James Georgia	Jobs are lost. In some respect, it'd pick up some. In some respect, it's going the other way it look like. [indistinct 00:29:57] a few jobs here. One or two. Like the plants where they go here. One time ain't nothing around here. Yeah. [indistinct 00:30:07]. Like down the road.	29:47
Gregory Hunter	They're building a new school?	30:09
Robert James Georgia	Yeah. Mm-hmm. But I hope it'll pick up. It's still looking dark. I can say that much. Mm-hmm. And me myself, you know I ain't going be [indistinct 00:30:30]. So, I hope my son, my son [indistinct 00:30:38].	30:10
Gregory Hunter	You son got quite a few more years ain't he? It look like he got quite a few more years.	30:38
Robert James Georgia	Well, I hope he'll be around a few more years. I mean a lot has been good [indistinct 00:30:57]. So, whenever. Yes, indeed.	30:44
Abraham Smith	For some reason it look like it's really not picking up. Right now, [indistinct 00:31:04] house for sale. When a Black person buy a house, White people on this side, Black people on the other side, they going move. They going move on the lake. Now, the lake is where wasn't but a few people on the lake. Now the lakeside is larger than [indistinct 00:31:40]. Go to the lake now, it's [indistinct 00:31:40]. Without a doubt.	30:57
Robert James Georgia	Yeah, it is.	31:40
Abraham Smith	So right now, a Black person can buy a house mostly anything from [indistinct 00:31:40] but that'll make White people move.	31:40
Gregory Hunter	Uh-huh.	31:40
Abraham Smith	They'll move right out.	31:41
Gregory Hunter	Yeah.	31:45
Robert James Georgia	And on the lake, they got [indistinct 00:31:48] so hard, they know ain't no Black person going buy. They know ain't no Black person going to buy them, so they ain't worried about no Blacks coming out and living.	31:46
Gregory Hunter	Yeah.	31:56
Robert James Georgia	And I think a lot sell, some of them sell for over $100,000. They cost a lot.	31:59
Gregory Hunter	No house [indistinct 00:32:07].	32:05
Robert James Georgia	Right. Mm-hmm. Yes, sir.	32:06
Gregory Hunter	How much land sell for [indistinct 00:32:13]?	32:10
Robert James Georgia	[indistinct 00:32:16]. It wasn't too much land being sold around Summerton. But I mean back a few years ago, you could've bought land for like 8500 [indistinct 00:32:27]. Yeah, a few years ago. Mm-hmm.	32:16
Abraham Smith	Yeah.	32:29
Gregory Hunter	Okay.	32:29

Item Info

Title:

Abraham Smith (primary interviewee) and Robert Georgia interview recording, 1994

Date:

1994

Creator:

Contributor:

Hunter, Gregory

Description:

Name: Abraham Smith; Date of birth: unknown; Place of birth: unknown; Occupation(s): unknown; Residence: Summerton, SC [?]. Name: Robert Georgia; Date of birth: unknown; Place of birth: unknown; Occupation(s): unknown; Residence: Summerton, SC[?]
Informant ID: 774; Informant ID: 775; Interviewed by: Gregory Hunter.

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-1410
19b8c73c-64a7-4fa2-8c20-aa57b8e033f1
behindtheveil
d8e7d9f1-45f8-4c1e-877d-795c203b1d7f
ark:/87924/r4dv1qx8f
d8e7d9f1-45f8-4c1e-877d-795c203b1d7f

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https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4dv1qx8f

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Abraham Smith (primary interviewee) and Robert Georgia interview recording, 1994

Transcript

Item Info

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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