Ruth Richardson interview recording, 1995 June 19

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Blair Murphy	Please state your full name, your date of birth, and where you were born.	0:01
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Ruth J. Richardson. That J is for Johnson. December 18, 1923.	0:04
Blair Murphy	And where?	0:26
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Summerton, South Carolina, Clarendon County.	0:26
Blair Murphy	Do you remember what it was like growing up? Do you remember your first home?	0:32
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Mm-hmm.	0:39
Blair Murphy	What was it like?	0:40
Ruth Johnson Richardson	It was beautiful because it was 10 head of children raised up in there. Mother, father, and 10 head of children, and we had a nice time.	0:42
Blair Murphy	What did your parents do?	0:55
Ruth Johnson Richardson	They farmed.	0:56
Blair Murphy	What type of crop would they work on?	0:58
Ruth Johnson Richardson	We'd farm corn, cotton, and vegetables.	1:01
Blair Murphy	So did your parents have to shop for food or did they raise—	1:07
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, they shopped for some and raised some. They raised quite a bit. They raised sugar cane for syrup. We had cows we milked. That was for the butter and milk. We killed hogs every winter. So that gave us meat and lard. We planted wheat to give us flour, corn meal and grits, white potatoes and carrots and peas and everything.	1:13
Blair Murphy	Did all the kids help on the farm?	1:50
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes.	1:52
Blair Murphy	Do you remember your first school?	1:54
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, St. Paul. I started at St. Paul Elementary, St. Paul High then. I went there for 11 years. I went to the 11th grade. At that time, that was high school.	1:58
Blair Murphy	How far was it from your house?	2:12
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Five miles.	2:14
Blair Murphy	So you walked to school?	2:16
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Walked. When we weren't walking, my father took us in the wagon part of the way, and we had to walk back. Until it was later in the years, he bought a car in 1928, Ford. My brothers used to drive that. But before the car now, we used to go in a buggy, a surrey, called a surrey.	2:17
Blair Murphy	The seat.	2:45
Ruth Johnson Richardson	He had those and had a horse and two mules, so the way we went to school.	2:54
Blair Murphy	What was your school like? Was it real small?	3:00
Ruth Johnson Richardson	No, when I started there it was a high school. It was a big school with many teachers. But the school between, it wasn't about a mile from home. I didn't go to that school.	3:04
Blair Murphy	Why didn't you go to that school?	3:16
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Why I didn't go?	3:20
Blair Murphy	Mm-hmm.	3:21
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I guess because my mother wouldn't let me go, I guess. So when all the other children got large enough to go to St. Paul, that was my first year, so I just went on there.	3:22
Blair Murphy	Okay.	3:32
Ruth Johnson Richardson	That's about it for that part.	3:36
Blair Murphy	Okay. Do you remember some of the things that you would learn?	3:38
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Way back then, we had a little ABC book, the ABCs in the center of the book. We had to learn the ABCs from that book.	4:09
Blair Murphy	That's okay.	4:10
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I can't remember too much from me back at that time right then. But after getting further up in the grades, I can remember some of the things. But now I just can't place them right now because it's so long.	4:11
Blair Murphy	Yeah. so—	4:31
Ruth Johnson Richardson	But I remember I had some good teachers. Ms. Henrietta Blackwell, she taught me fourth and fifth grade. And then Ms. Celestine Nelson, she was Nelson then, she taught me in third grade. Mrs. Sarah Watson and Mrs. Brown, they taught me—	4:31
Blair Murphy	What was good about them?	5:02
Ruth Johnson Richardson	—sixth and seventh grade. Huh?	5:03
Blair Murphy	What was good about your teachers?	5:04
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Well, they were real good. They took a lot of time with the children. They were real good. They used to work one-on-one as much as they could because there were so many children in the classroom at that time.	5:06
Blair Murphy	About how many kids in the room?	5:14
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Oh, Lord. A room full. Big rooms and the room full of children. What this woman name? [indistinct 00:05:33]. Mrs. Miller, she taught me in second grade. The lady that taught me first grade, her name was Ms. Wells or Mrs. Wells.	5:22
Blair Murphy	Did these women inspire you to want to teach, yourself?	5:51
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Not then.	5:56
Blair Murphy	Not then?	5:56
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Mm-mm.	5:58
Blair Murphy	What did you want do then?	5:58
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Well, when I got up there further up in the high school, I wanted to be a seamstress. My mother died, so I didn't go on with that. So I really didn't thought about teaching until I finished the high school. What inspired me then, that year, the two teachers that were teaching at Butler, the school near me, they left, and they couldn't find anyone to teach. The trustees sent my uncle to me to get me to open up, and I went there to open up for about a week until the teacher got there. The week never did come. The week was a whole year.	6:00
Ruth Johnson Richardson	So after that, Reverend JW Seals, he came down and talked with me and told me. He said, "Now, since it seem as if you will be here, you must go ahead and send in your application for the job." At the same time, my uncle came and said a trustee told him the same thing, and I sent the application in.	6:55
Blair Murphy	Did you like it?	7:25
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Right then, I didn't, not right then because, see, that was the first just going in for filling someone place because I was expecting the lady to come, and she never gotten there. So I work on that year. The next year, I went to summer school that same year, that same summer, too, before I [indistinct 00:08:00]. But the next year, Mr. Roberts from Holly Hill, he wanted a teacher, and my aunt told him about me.	7:28
Ruth Johnson Richardson	They came over and asked me about taking the school over there. It was a one-teacher school, and I went on over there. That really when I start kind of liking it, my second year.	8:13
Blair Murphy	Why did you like it then?	8:26
Ruth Johnson Richardson	But it was kind of hard because I had to go to summer school and go to evening classes and everything to complete my graduation for college.	8:31
Blair Murphy	Where did you go to night school?	8:45
Ruth Johnson Richardson	At Morris College, right here in Sumter.	8:50
Blair Murphy	So you were traveling back and forth?	8:52
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Mm-hmm. But not every night now. Sometime you'll go Monday nights and sometime Friday night. But anyway, I started liking it the more I work. When I just got into it, I just really love it. I just really love it.	8:54
Blair Murphy	Do you remember what year it was when you started?	9:19
Ruth Johnson Richardson	1943. I finished high school in 1941, and I was out a year. I started in 1943.	9:22
Blair Murphy	So you were the one teacher for the whole school?	9:32
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Mm-hmm. For two schools, one teacher. In 1945, I think it was '45. Yeah, that was the time the president died. I was over at Holly Hill, [indistinct 00:09:53] School, President Roosevelt. The next year, I didn't go back over there. I didn't work. I got married that year, and I didn't work. After that when I came up here, I started working over here in 1946.	9:34
Blair Murphy	So you worked over at this school that was closest?	10:16
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Uh-huh. This school up here now, this one, it's not mile from here. [indistinct 00:10:26]—	10:20
Blair Murphy	What is that one called again?	10:25
Ruth Johnson Richardson	That one's called St. Phillip School. The other one was Butler, and the second one was [indistinct 00:10:35]. That was at Holly Hill, [indistinct 00:10:42].	10:27
Blair Murphy	So was it difficult teaching the whole school, not teaching a certain grade?	10:46
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, because I had from first through fourth, the first two years, first through fourth. But the children were real nice. I didn't have much trouble with them, no problems like the children giving the teachers now. But after that, when I came over here to St. Phillip, it was a four-teacher school. I move up. Then they had four teachers over here. So I only had two grades, maybe the first and second or something like that because this school [indistinct 00:11:30] fifth grade. I worked there until the schools consolidated in 1953, '54.	10:52
Blair Murphy	Then what did you do?	11:35
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I moved to the same school that I finished high school from, St. Paul.	11:43
Blair Murphy	St. Paul.	11:46
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I stayed there for 29 years.	11:48
Blair Murphy	Oh, okay.	11:49
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yeah. I had—	11:49
Blair Murphy	What grade did you teach at St. Paul?	11:54
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I started off in first grade. Mm-mm, started off in second grade, and they moved me back to first grade because one of the teachers that came said she couldn't teach first grade. So the principal moved me back from second to first grade. I worked in that first grade from then until I retired.	11:55
Blair Murphy	Did you like the real little kids?	12:25
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, I really loved the little children. It was very nice to work there. I could see where they prospering. (laughs) More than I could, I think, if I'd have seen the larger children.	12:26
Blair Murphy	Do you remember what type of books you would receive? Would you get the books from the county at your school?	12:42
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Some of them. Now, when we first started off, it was a book called Dick and Jane. Oh, Lord, I can't remember all those books now.	12:52
Blair Murphy	Were they new books or were they books that—	13:00
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yeah, they were new books. Every year you'd get that Dick and Jane book. It was a new book. That was for first grade. After that, they move up to something else. Now I can't remember the later ones. Before I retired, they had three books that the first graders had to go through. When they get through those three readers, not three books, three readers, when they get through those three readers, they're supposed to be prepared for second grade. But I can't remember the name of the books now.	13:03
Blair Murphy	Do you—	13:47
Ruth Johnson Richardson	They had the health, social studies, and science and math book. They had all those during the years they come up. But they had math all the time along with the first grade book. But in that first book I was telling you about, about the ABCs in the middle of it, that book had math in one part of it and had reading in the other part. I can't remember now because that was my book I studied in first grade.	13:47
Ruth Johnson Richardson	But I can't remember now whether it had science and health and everything in it. But I remember far down, we used to get geography and everything like that.	14:25
Blair Murphy	So did all your brothers and sisters, did they all complete the 11th grade?	14:44
Ruth Johnson Richardson	No. No, no. My oldest brother, the school was going to 10th grade when he finished. My next oldest brother, my mother died and he stayed home to help my father out. So he didn't go. He stopped in the eighth grade, I think. But the rest of them finished high school.	14:49
Blair Murphy	Do you remember when they started working on desegregating the schools and the case?	15:17
Ruth Johnson Richardson	That was in '53, '54 when they really started there. In '54.	15:26
Blair Murphy	What do you remember about it?	15:29
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I remember quite a bit of the people who put their heads all the way out at that time. I was kind of young at that time. But a lot of the older ones, they went out for it, and they were fired from their jobs and stuff like that. They had to leave home and go some other place and try to make a living for the family. At least the whole family had to leave home. I don't know. Reverend DeLaine and who else? I know Reverend DeLaine is one. They used to shoot in his house and someone else house, but I can't remember whose house it was, where I seen one of those outstanding [indistinct 00:16:34].	15:43
Ruth Johnson Richardson	They figured to get him from around here. I guess it would be bad. He ended up going to Buffalo, New York, to live. That's about as much I mostly remember. The same lady I asked you, Mrs. Briggs, she and her family there, Mr. Joseph Richburg and his family left, and some more. Some of the people, they wouldn't give them anything for their crops so that they could start a crop.	16:33
Blair Murphy	No credit?	17:13
Ruth Johnson Richardson	No credit or nothing like that. So that was about it that I can remember.	17:14
Blair Murphy	Was there pressure on the rest of the community even though you weren't directly involved?	17:21
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, there was pressure because they used to say they didn't want you to go in—Well, they had Black and White here, bathrooms or drinking fountain and things like that. You'd go to these places. You couldn't go in a certain part. Even in the doctor's office, you couldn't get in there together.	17:24
Blair Murphy	When you went to the doctor's office?	17:45
Ruth Johnson Richardson	You have to go in one part, the Blacks in one part and the Whites in the other.	17:47
Blair Murphy	You saw a White doctor though?	17:50
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes.	17:53
Blair Murphy	Did he treat people well or?	17:54
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yeah, they treat them pretty well. Yeah. They would treat them pretty well.	17:55
Blair Murphy	So what year did you get married?	18:05
Ruth Johnson Richardson	1945.	18:07
Blair Murphy	Did you have children?	18:10
Ruth Johnson Richardson	No, no children.	18:10
Blair Murphy	No children?	18:10
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I raised two girls, my cousins. But I didn't have any children of my own.	18:13
Blair Murphy	What did your husband do?	18:20
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Well, he worked on the farm, and he worked job work. Did the job work.	18:23
Blair Murphy	Where did you live?	18:28
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Right here in this area. I lived back there by [indistinct 00:18:36]. If I holler real loud, someone can hear me back there. And then we moved from there here in 1972.	18:30
Blair Murphy	Okay. So did you own that land?	18:50
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, my husband finally—His parents had it and they gave it to him.	18:52
Blair Murphy	The land you lived on as a child, did your parents own that land?	19:01
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Oh, no, they were renting.	19:04
Blair Murphy	They were renting?	19:05
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Mm-hmm.	19:05
Blair Murphy	So was it sharecropping or just—	19:08
Ruth Johnson Richardson	No, just was rent.	19:10
Blair Murphy	Just rented?	19:10
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Uh-huh. No, it wasn't sharecrop. Yes, because that's about it I can tell about—All my teachers were very good, but Mrs. Blackwell, I told you about. I don't know. It seemed like I learned more from her than I did any of the rest.	19:11
Blair Murphy	What do you remember learning from her?	19:27
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I can't remember all the things I did now. It's so long. But I do remember it seemed like things she taught me at that time, it stuck with me longer. She was a basketball coach, and I used to play basketball. All that had something to do with that. I played basketball from sixth grade through 11th.	19:36
Blair Murphy	Is that what you did for fun and entertainment or?	19:57
Ruth Johnson Richardson	No. She just wanted some basketball players, and she just picked us out, pick out her players. But everything was nice.	20:04
Blair Murphy	So when you were young, what did you do on the weekends or to socialize?	20:15
Ruth Johnson Richardson	We didn't have time for that.	20:25
Blair Murphy	What were you doing?	20:27
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Well, that's the crop where we had to pick cotton or hoe cotton on the weekends. You in school all the week. We had to pick cotton or hoe cotton. And then we had the housework to do. There wasn't no socializing then, no more than on Sunday, go out and socialize.	20:30
Blair Murphy	At church?	20:47
Ruth Johnson Richardson	At church and that's it. Come back home.	20:48
Blair Murphy	What church did you go to?	20:54
Ruth Johnson Richardson	At the Oaks AME Church with my grandmother.	20:55
Blair Murphy	What do you remember about going to church?	21:03
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I remember a lot of the older people there. I don't know. They seemed so sincere, what they were doing. I used to sing in the choir. They had a junior choir. I used to sing with the junior choir. Most of us a leader. Everything was fine. Everything was pretty good. Yeah, we had some old people there. I don't know. But I really believe in those old people back there then—	21:07
Blair Murphy	What do you mean?	21:43
Ruth Johnson Richardson	—more so than I do now. Well, that's the truth. They seemed to have been so sincere in what they were doing. I just believe in them. I don't know. A lot of people you talk, I said, "Well, send me to the ones that can sing." I don't know. It's just my belief. Older people back there, they took more time to be with children and everything else.	21:44
Ruth Johnson Richardson	But now you just can't chastise people children like you used to. You can't do it. These people will get on you for saying something to their children because, the first thing, the child going back and telling them a tale. They're not going to tell the truth. So I don't know.	22:12
Blair Murphy	So people had more control over the children [indistinct 00:22:35]—	22:30
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, the whole community. You have a house and I have a house. My children go to your house. They're your children. Yours come to my house, they're my children. If those children don't listen, my children don't listen at you, all you had to do is tell me. You could whip them and then get the word to me. It could be another whipping, too. Everything was better back then. It really was better. The old people look like they used to get along so good together at that time.	22:37
Blair Murphy	Really?	23:15
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Mm-hmm.	23:15
Blair Murphy	Were there a lot of people in this area at that time or was it about the same?	23:16
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, it was a lot of people over here when I came over here. But down in my area where I came from, there was a lot of people down there, too. All those old people down there, they were more like sisters and brothers. I wonder if that rain coming in my room. I'm trying to see if it coming—Yes. Could you take this off of me?	23:21
Blair Murphy	Sure. Okay. I wanted to ask you, what was the town, Summerton, like maybe in the '40s?	23:44
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Well, that was one thing. I can't tell you too much about the town of Summerton.	23:49
Blair Murphy	You didn't go up there?	23:54
Ruth Johnson Richardson	No, when I was coming up, we didn't go to town.	23:58
Blair Murphy	You didn't go to town?	24:00
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Mm-mm. Most I went to the town is now since I was married. But when I was coming up, see, we live probably about 10 miles from town. My father used to go and buy the groceries. My mother when she was living, they'll go and whatever clothes we need, they'll go and get. But during my time coming up, I didn't go to town.	24:00
Blair Murphy	What do you remember about it when you got married?	24:27
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Well, it was better than it is now, I know.	24:32
Blair Murphy	How so?	24:35
Ruth Johnson Richardson	The people were much better at that time. We had one Colored policeman there, Mr. David Lawson. If he catch anyone doing anything wrong before he would catch them and lock them up, he'll give them some good advice. At that time, they weren't being locked up too much. And then we had some more White policemen there. They used to do the same thing with some of them. But the people in general, they weren't bad people like they are now. You see all this dope and stuff going through now. It wasn't like that then.	24:38
Blair Murphy	You could trust people?	25:15
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Mm-hmm. Yeah. But—	25:17
Blair Murphy	But the town was segregated? Did they have signs and separate water fountains and stuff like? Like that at White businesses?	25:21
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Now, I guess they did. Well, Dr. McStoot's place, it wasn't segregated. That's a doctor. Not that I remember. Now, it could have been. But he's the only doctor that I was going to until—After he died, I started going to other doctors. But during all this time, I don't think I've been to him but one time before I got married, that I know of. But anyway, after I got married, the only time I would go to town is to go out there and buy food or buy something else. I didn't just stick around there to see what was happenin', so I can't tell you too much about it.	25:31
Blair Murphy	So was it kind of a separate life in Summerton than it was out here?	26:24
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Well, no, because when I go there all the time, the country people out there in the little town. You couldn't see anyone particular, but the store people, the real merchant people. Anyway, I don't know. I didn't see much difference because they brought up all the country people in town when you go there because that was the nearest town.	26:31
Blair Murphy	Did you ever travel?	26:59
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, I traveled some.	27:02
Blair Murphy	Where did you go?	27:03
Ruth Johnson Richardson	I used to travel to Miami quite a bit. Miami, Florida, and Philadelphia, New York City and Buffalo, New York. Those about the main ones that I went to—	27:07
Blair Murphy	Did you—	27:21
Ruth Johnson Richardson	—because I had people living there.	27:21
Blair Murphy	Did you go in the '40s and '50s to these places or?	27:23
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Mm-hmm. Because I went most of the time since I got married. I didn't go any place when I was single. Didn't do any traveling. Far as I went when I was single was to Sumter to school.	27:28
Blair Murphy	Did you like Miami, for example?	27:44
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes. I like Miami, and I like Buffalo to live. If I had to live, I could live either one of those. But I don't like Philadelphia nor New York City to live in. Mm-mm. Then Washington and Baltimore, too. I could live in Baltimore. I don't think I would want to live in Washington.	27:48
Blair Murphy	Did a lot of people migrate from here to the North?	28:09
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, quite a bit.	28:15
Blair Murphy	Did a lot of them go to Baltimore, because I keep hearing Baltimore?	28:16
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes. Well, a lot of them goes to New York, too. Not too many of them went to Buffalo, that I knew of. But a lot of them went to Miami.	28:19
Blair Murphy	So Miami was different than the normal South?	28:32
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Well, it's hot. It's real hot down there. It's a very beautiful place.	28:36
Blair Murphy	Do they have a lot of job opportunities?	28:46
Ruth Johnson Richardson	Yes, uh-huh. Lots of jobs there.	28:48
Blair Murphy	Thank you.	28:56
Ruth Johnson Richardson	[indistinct 00:29:03]—	28:56

Item Info

Title:

Ruth Richardson interview recording, 1995 June 19

Date:

June 19, 1995

Creator:

Richardson, Ruth J.

Contributor:

Murphy, Blair

Description:

Name: Ruth J. Richardson; Date of birth: 1923-12-18; Place of birth: Summerton, SC; Occupation(s): agriculture; educator; elementary school
teacher; Residence: Pinewood, SC
Informant ID: 1228; Interviewed by: Blair Murphy.

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English

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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behindtheveil
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ark:/87924/r4b282143
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Ruth Richardson interview recording, 1995 June 19

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1. Ruth Richardson administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Ruth Richardson interview recording, 1995 June 19

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