Hazel McGee interview recordings, 1995 August 11

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Laurie Green	—Memphis on August 11th, 1995. I'd just like to hear a little bit first about some of your earlier experiences. Well, first of all, what kind of work did your parents do?	0:01
Hazel Wilson McGee	Farmed. They farmed.	0:23
Laurie Green	Uh-huh. Were they sharecroppers or did they own their land?	0:30
Hazel Wilson McGee	No, my daddy always rented his land. He had his own mules and he always rented.	0:38
Laurie Green	Okay. And did you help out in the farming?	0:48
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes, I did.	0:52
Laurie Green	Uh-huh. What kind of stuff did you do?	0:53
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, I chopped cotton and I picked cotton at a early age.	0:56
Laurie Green	What are some of your memories of that? On a day like today, hot.	1:03
Hazel Wilson McGee	It was hot. And when it was cotton picking time, I hated it. I didn't mind chopping. Ooh, I never liked to pick cotton.	1:11
Laurie Green	Why is that?	1:14
Hazel Wilson McGee	Because you got to bend over all the time, and I never liked it.	1:14
Laurie Green	Uh-huh. What was it like at that time for your family or for Blacks in that area of Mississippi. Is this in the 1920s and '30s?	1:24
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, I can't say too much about the '20s, but in the 1930s, there was some good White people and there was some bad, some treated you right and some didn't. A lot of them want to style you as a nigger, and they thought whatever they said, some of the White, that you had to obey them like you were their child.	1:44
Laurie Green	Did you have any personal experiences with that?	2:14
Hazel Wilson McGee	Not really. Not no whole lot? No, I didn't.	2:18
Laurie Green	Besides the farm work that you were doing, what was the first kind of job that you had in Mississippi?	2:27
Hazel Wilson McGee	Working in a school.	2:37
Laurie Green	Can you tell me about that work?	2:40
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah. I worked the pastry board in West Tallahatchie School in Webb, Mississippi. I'd do all the pastry work.	2:42
Laurie Green	Okay. What were the conditions like with that job?	2:57
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, with that job, it was fine. Our cafeteria manager was White, but she get a little snappy sometimes. There's enough of us that to cool her down. She was kind of contrary because this was a all-White school, and at that time in Mississippi they had all-White school and all-Black schools.	3:00
Laurie Green	Uh-huh. And how many people worked at your job?	3:30
Hazel Wilson McGee	There was about four or five of us in the kitchen. They had other Black during the custodial work. I don't know how many they were.	3:42
Laurie Green	Now, why did you move to Memphis?	3:53
Hazel Wilson McGee	I just did not like the farming. Neither did my husband. He came here and got a job, and then moved his family here.	3:59
Laurie Green	And what year was that?	4:10
Hazel Wilson McGee	1955.	4:10
Laurie Green	Had he been farming until then?	4:16
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, he didn't really farm a crop. He was something like a—he tend to the mules and do a lot of running in the trucks and carry people to different parts of the field to work. Now, he never did farm. He never had a crop.	4:18
Laurie Green	Did you have kids at that time?	4:43
Hazel Wilson McGee	When we moved here?	4:47
Laurie Green	Uh-huh.	4:48
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes. I had four, and the baby was born here.	4:49
Laurie Green	Now, what are your children's names?	4:54
Hazel Wilson McGee	My oldest son is named James. My second is a girl; her name is Wilma. The third one is a boy; his name is Roy. The fourth one is a girl; her name is Joann. And my youngest child is a boy; his name is Larry.	5:01
Laurie Green	Okay. Had you been to Memphis before?	5:21
Hazel Wilson McGee	Oh, yes. I've been here many times.	5:23
Laurie Green	What did you—?	5:26
Hazel Wilson McGee	Oh, I would just come visit.	5:26
Laurie Green	Uh-huh. What were your impressions of Memphis?	5:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, when I first came here to visit, I did not like it. And I did not like it when I moved here.	5:33
Laurie Green	Oh, really?	5:39
Hazel Wilson McGee	No.	5:40
Laurie Green	Why is that?	5:41
Hazel Wilson McGee	I don't know. I just didn't like it.	5:42
Laurie Green	You didn't like the big city?	5:42
Hazel Wilson McGee	I guess you right. I think you right. I didn't like the big city.	5:49
Laurie Green	And did you stay not liking it?	5:55
Hazel Wilson McGee	I love it now. It's fine.	5:58
Laurie Green	Mm-hmm. Did you have family here before?	6:02
Hazel Wilson McGee	No, and that might have been some of the problem. He had family here, but I didn't. But most of my family was in St. Louis, and I kind of wanted to move back.	6:04
Laurie Green	Okay. Now, what kind of work did he do here when he moved here?	6:21
Hazel Wilson McGee	He worked at the Fell Compress at first. Then he got hired for the city with the sanitation department.	6:25
Laurie Green	Okay. The Fell compressor?	6:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	Mm-hmm. The Feperel Compress.	6:33
Laurie Green	Can you spell that for me?	6:36
Hazel Wilson McGee	F-E-P-E-R-E-L, I guess. And compress is where they compress cotton and stuff, I think.	6:38
Laurie Green	And did he work on there just a short time?	6:52
Hazel Wilson McGee	No, he worked on there maybe about a year. Then he got hired with the city.	6:52
Laurie Green	With the sanitation department?	7:00
Hazel Wilson McGee	Mm-hmm.	7:00
Laurie Green	Okay. Now, I'd like to come back to some of what you remember about his work at the sanitation department. But let's start with I'd like to first ask you about what you were involved in, what kind of work you did here in Memphis when you moved here?	7:14
Hazel Wilson McGee	When I first moved here, I didn't work at all because the children were small. Then when my baby got old enough to go to kindergarten, that's when I started working. First, for maybe a year, I might have done private homework. Then I got this job with Metro Uniform, and I worked there 24 years.	7:29
Laurie Green	So, you started there around 1960?	8:00
Hazel Wilson McGee	1963.	8:03
Laurie Green	Okay. And what did you do at Metro Uniform?	8:09
Hazel Wilson McGee	I sewed. I was a seamstress. I did alteration.	8:13
Laurie Green	What was the workforce there? Were there many Black women working there?	8:13
Hazel Wilson McGee	That's most that worked there were Black women. They had about three or four men. They called them the washmen. They did the washing in the washroom, and everything else was Black women. We didn't have White women working. No more than in the Army.	8:24
Laurie Green	And about how many women worked there?	8:47
Hazel Wilson McGee	About 18 or 20, I reckon, maybe more.	8:48
Laurie Green	Can you describe what the conditions were like working there?	9:01
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah.	9:04
Laurie Green	At the beginning?	9:06
Hazel Wilson McGee	At the beginning—	9:06
Laurie Green	Before you had the union. Yeah.	9:07
Hazel Wilson McGee	Oh, it wasn't good at all. If you had to work 7:00 to 7:00 or 7:00 to 10:00 at night, that was fine. They didn't give you no overtime or nothing. You just made that flat rate, 75. Some people made 75. Some went up to 80. The top salary was about 90 cents an hour.	9:08
Laurie Green	90?	9:36
Hazel Wilson McGee	90. And that was the seamstress low dose.	9:39
Laurie Green	That below that was below minimum wage or was that—	9:43
Hazel Wilson McGee	I don't think it was no minimum wage then. It just whatever you could get.	9:46
Laurie Green	How did the supervisors treat you? Who were the supervisors and how did they treat you?	9:55
Hazel Wilson McGee	Bill Park was one supervisor. He was very nice. Mr. Fast, I can't think of his first name. He was plant manager. They had a [indistinct 00:10:31]. Then they got Galen Harlow, the hard boy. He came in. They had a very fast turnover.	10:17
Laurie Green	Why was that? Oh, a fast turnover in the workers or the supervisors?	10:47
Hazel Wilson McGee	In the workers. Very fast. It was owned by Robert Burkes Dock. He believed in work, work. In 1964—wait a minute, don't—we must have got the union 1964 or '65. Might have been '65, I think. We kept the union for a year. When we first got the union, they had their election, they agreed, well, we went up to a dollar and a few pennies. I can't remember how many pennies an hour. Then when that one year contract was up, they didn't want to give us a raise. That's when the strike came in, and the working condition was bad and we got to all over 40 hours. They had to give us overtime. Overtime, that time and a half, all over 40 hours.	10:51
Hazel Wilson McGee	We went out on strike and we stayed out about seven months. At that time, the union paid you $15 a week strike benefit. We went back to work in January. We must have back to work in January of 1968. My husband went out on strike maybe like February or March of '68. I had been back to work one month, and then he went out with the sanitation strike.	12:23
Laurie Green	Which union were you with?	13:22
Hazel Wilson McGee	Laundry Workers Union, local 218.	13:23
Laurie Green	First of all, did they have other shops in Memphis?	13:33
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes. They had Herber's Laundry.	13:35
Laurie Green	Oh, really?	13:35
Hazel Wilson McGee	Memphis Uniform. They had Mechanic, and they had Krauss at one time.	13:40
Laurie Green	Krauss?	13:58
Hazel Wilson McGee	Krauss. [indistinct 00:14:00] Oh, and they had National Linen. They had about six shops. They represented about six here.	13:58
Laurie Green	Can you talk to me about how the union got going at where you worked at Metro?	14:17
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes. I can tell you. A girl named Norma Jean brought the cards in, sneaking them around. Different ones we had to slip and sign them. You couldn't let the manager or the supervisor know it. Somehow it got in his ear that we were trying to organize a union. He said, "Anybody caught with the card, he was going to fire them." Then we start having meetings, not at the plant. They got them organized and they went to the national Relation Labor Board to have the election. So when they had the election, the union was so many, when they vote there will be yes for the union, no for the company. So, the union won. That's when we got our first contract. Mainly looked like it was just to get they foot in the door and we went from there.	14:25
Laurie Green	Was Norma Jean a worker?	15:27
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes, she was one of the pressers.	15:29
Laurie Green	One of the pressers.	15:29
Hazel Wilson McGee	Mm-hmm.	15:29
Laurie Green	Now, do you have any idea what, before she got the cards, was there discussion about the union? About getting a union?	15:37
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah. Well, she had talked—	15:44
Laurie Green	[indistinct 00:15:46].	15:44
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, she had talked to some few people that she had confidence in that we'd help out and wouldn't run they mouth. What I mean by that, that weren't talking around the people that they was afraid of that would go back and tell us. She had [indistinct 00:16:03]. Then I started helping her with signing up people, and from there we got everybody signed up that we wasn't afraid would tell.	15:46
Laurie Green	Now, how did she know about where to go to get the cards?	16:18
Hazel Wilson McGee	I don't know definitely who contacted her. I really don't. I don't know who contacted her.	16:22
Laurie Green	And did you grow up knowing about unions? Was this the first time that you've had contact with unions?	16:29
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes, that's the first time I definitely had direct contact with unions. But I've always heard about it. But I had never had direct contact before.	16:34
Laurie Green	Who had you heard about it from?	16:43
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, my brother lived in Detroit. He worked for Ford Motor and they had a union. Whenever he come home, he would talk to us about it. Then we had other relatives that worked on union jobs.	16:47
Laurie Green	I don't know how to ask this exactly, but it's really interesting to me when people decided that they wanted to bring in a union, what did they hope that being unionized would do for them?	17:11
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, they know that would make their working condition better and then they know they would make more money. That was the whole idea. We were working for 90 cents an hour, wasn't getting a raise. If you went in at 7:00 in the morning, you probably sometime when they had a system out there, what they called change out. Take the short-sleeve shirts in in the fall of the year and give everybody the long-sleeve shirts and jackets that rented the clothes from. We had to stay there and finish for that night, and I had worked till 10:30 at night from 7:00 in the morning during change out to try to get a contract out. So that was the full purpose of it, is changing our working condition and making more money.	17:29
Laurie Green	Now, did people feel like they were treated well by supervisors?	18:31
Hazel Wilson McGee	No, they did not.	18:37
Laurie Green	What were some of the problems that [indistinct 00:18:42]	18:39
Hazel Wilson McGee	That was why we got the union. Well, some of the problem, they wanted to kind of push you when you were—and they wanted you to kind of, I guess, drive you that you hadn't worked enough. I guess that's the way you would put it. They didn't know how to talk to you. Like, some of the supervisors wanted to talk to you like you were their child, and you know that's a very late date for that.	18:42
Laurie Green	What do you mean by that?	19:15
Hazel Wilson McGee	You don't talk to adults like you're talking to a child. You address them in a proper way and you ask them to do things. Don't tell them you got to do nothing so you don't have to.	19:17
Laurie Green	So, people felt like they were treated with a lack of respect?	19:32
Hazel Wilson McGee	That's right. They felt like they was being overworked for the money.	19:34
Laurie Green	Now, was there any issues over the restroom, things like that?	19:49
Hazel Wilson McGee	Oh, yeah. They had a little one-stool thing over here on Wright Street for the women. One half the time, it was stopped up and nasty. The White, they had a bathroom in the office, the few White workers they had. But the Black women had to go. And then finally, they put two commodes in there and it's just a little partition between them. One half the time, it was nasty. They supposedly had somebody clean it. A lot of time, it was stopped up. I never did go in the men's bathroom, but they said it was horrible.	19:53
Laurie Green	So when you first started working there, you had to go out of plant to use the commode?	20:37
Hazel Wilson McGee	No, it was inside the plant.	20:41
Laurie Green	The commode was?	20:43
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes. But it wasn't sanitary at all.	20:44
Laurie Green	Mm-hmm. Did you have to bring the union in before you could get the other ones built?	20:48
Hazel Wilson McGee	Before we could get decent, we can get the bathroom being cleaned. Yes.	20:55
Laurie Green	So that was actually something you negotiated?	20:57
Hazel Wilson McGee	When the union, we were negotiating the contract, they had to see that the restroom be clean at all times. [indistinct 00:21:06] they kept clean and it made a big difference. You might tell them today the bathroom will stopped up, maybe be couple of days before they get it unstopped. But they hurried up and unstopped it after we got the union.	20:59
Laurie Green	The reason I'm asking you about it is because in interviewing a number of people from different shops, this is something that has come up a lot, the way that people felt these indignities on the job and how people talk to you and the restroom facility, that sort of thing.	21:23
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, ours was very poor, the restroom facility. We had to sit round at our working station and eat lunch. We didn't have a lunchroom or nothing. When it was warm, a lot of them go outside and sit outside and eat their lunch. The only lunches we got, we'd bring it from home or walk up on the corner to a little old store. Sometimes some of them would go to some of the place and get hot food for us. But normally, we carried sack lunch.	21:37
Laurie Green	Was that something that changed at all?	22:11
Hazel Wilson McGee	Hmm?	22:16
Laurie Green	Was that something that changed with the union?	22:16
Hazel Wilson McGee	Oh, yes. They got a new plant shortly after we got the union out on Deff and it was real nice. Nice, cool cafeteria, all kind of snack machines in there.	22:18
Laurie Green	Now, just going back to the strike in 1967. Did you win that strike?	22:37
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes, we won that strike.	22:47
Laurie Green	What specifically did you go out on? What were your major demands for that strike?	22:52
Hazel Wilson McGee	Better working condition and a raise. Those were the two main issues. That better working condition meant that all those long hours was gone, and if we worked over, we would get paid for it, not just regular day's salary.	23:09
Laurie Green	How was this for you at home when you were working these long hours? How was it for you at home?	23:31
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, my husband was real nice. He'd get off of work about 3:30 or 3:00, and he would come home and I had a big size girl. They would fix dinner for the little ones, he would. He's working. He'd be off every Wednesday. Sanitation workers was working four days at that time. He would do the most of the washing. I'd do the cleaning on Saturdays when I get off of work, Saturday evening. We working six days a week. When I get off of work, maybe I was washing Sundays after church. I'd iron or wouldn't go to church because I'd have to iron the children's school clothes.	23:35
Laurie Green	Did you get real involved with the union?	24:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes.	24:33
Laurie Green	Were you an officer or a steward?	24:33
Hazel Wilson McGee	I was a shop steward from when we first got the union until I retired.	24:34
Laurie Green	Okay. Why did people choose you?	24:43
Hazel Wilson McGee	I don't know. I guess because I always would speak what was on my mind and wasn't afraid to speak.	24:47
Laurie Green	What kinds of things did you say at the beginning? I know from talking to other people who became stewards, that they were really outspoken and other workers recognized that.	24:57
Hazel Wilson McGee	That's right.	25:08
Laurie Green	Can you remember any specific incidents where you stood up for something? [indistinct 00:25:17]	25:08
Hazel Wilson McGee	So many. We have had people out there to get discharged, and they really wasn't supposed to be discharged, who got their job back. Just a number of different times things went on. Whenever the supervisor and the employee have an argument, I found it was best to get them together and have the meeting as the supervisor and the one that's complaining. Then you get the truth out of them. They usually settle it like that.	25:17
Hazel Wilson McGee	I've had people's money wouldn't come out right. I'd go in the office. They get their time card, and I take the person in the office and they figured up. Well, it was a mistake. I don't know whether a mistake or they just meant do it. But they get their money right. Just different things.	25:55
Hazel Wilson McGee	Once, whenever a job—we had job classification. Some made one thing, some another. If a high-paying job became available, I would always make sure they put it on the bulletin board for three working days, and they would bid on it. The person with the most seniority that didn't work in that area, they were tied to the job. If nobody bidded it on it, they would give it to the person with less seniority. If they failed to take it, then they could go in the streets and hire somebody to take their job. But they wasn't really supposed to bring nobody in if they had somebody there to do the job. And we kind of forced them.	26:14
Laurie Green	Did you fight? Yeah. I was going to ask if you had to fight for that?	27:01
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah, a lot of times they, "Well, I—", but no. We going put it on the board.	27:04
Laurie Green	How did that first come up?	27:09
Hazel Wilson McGee	What?	27:10
Laurie Green	Do you remember when you started fighting over that? Was there a specific time?	27:10
Hazel Wilson McGee	No, I don't.	27:22
Laurie Green	How were involved with the initial unionizing drive? Did you have meetings that you would speak at?	27:29
Hazel Wilson McGee	When we'd have meetings at the plant? Well, usually all six of the plants here, all six of the plants would have a meeting together maybe once—	27:37
Laurie Green	All of six plants?	27:48
Hazel Wilson McGee	—or maybe once a month. We'd have all the stewards, what have you, would always talk. Maybe they would meet with some of their employees, and sometime we'd have meetings in the plant, ask for 15-20 minutes to meet with some of them. And then sometime when the supervisor needs a meeting, he'd say—well, it's right after lunch. Everybody would call me Ms. Hazel. So, "Ms. Hazel, we going have a meeting, get them together." That's the way we began. But the last supervisors, before I left, they were very nice. Now, the plant manager, he tried to be a little nasty sometimes, but he could be calmed down because we'd always throw the contract on him and tell him what the contract says.	27:50
Laurie Green	Okay. This is [indistinct 00:28:42] but I wanted to ask you about this. When you were on strike in 1967, what kind of support did you get? What kind of support did you get for your strength from the community or [indistinct 00:29:08]	28:41
Hazel Wilson McGee	Oh, they were very nice. The neighbors and everything were very nice. When I was on strike and then when we went back to work, one month after I went back to work, my husband went out on strike, and we got all kind of support. The city of Memphis was behind the sanitation strike. They were really nice. I'd have come home from work, and my daughter would tell me, "Mom," I'd say, "Huh?" "Miss so-and-so give this envelope." They give $10 or $15 in it. Sacks of food. They were real nice.	29:08
Laurie Green	Mm-hmm. That kind of support started even before the sanitation strike, when you all were on strike?	29:42
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah. We would have people come out, buy lunch. We'd be walking the picket line. Do you know what that is?	29:50
Laurie Green	Mm-hmm.	29:55
Hazel Wilson McGee	We would be walking the picket line and people come out and bring cases of drinks. Some of them come along and give us a little change, go buy us a sandwich.	30:00
Laurie Green	And these were people who were neighbors of yours?	30:08
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, they were friends and neighbors. We didn't have any problem being supported with neither strike.	30:15
Laurie Green	With the laundry workers strike, did other unions support [indistinct 00:30:28]?	30:22
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes. The Teamsters Union, they were very supportive to us. When we was on strike, just our plant was on strike. The other plants that was organized on the local 218, those employees paid a dollar a week—	30:27
Laurie Green	Oh, really?	30:47
Hazel Wilson McGee	—to donate to us that were on strike.	30:47
Hazel Wilson McGee	The working condition, because I've seen Mr. Fast. People be working. He would tell them, "Come here." Maybe they wasn't doing it fast enough for him. Next thing you know that person would have, he'd take them up there and fire them, that person would have their first gone out the door. He'd fire them just like that. Well, everybody's job was at stake like that. So, that's one of the main issues why we got the union because we know he had to go through a channel to fire you. Couldn't just walk up and say, "You fired." With the union, they had to give you a oral warning and then—well, they supposed to give you about three oral warnings. Then they had to give you three written warnings before they fired you. The fourth, you were automatically discharged [indistinct 00:31:58] as long as he could prove that what he was saying was right. But if he couldn't prove it, then you could get those warnings tore up.	30:48
Hazel Wilson McGee	It was really job security—no, because we had some plants that was union members before we were organized. They had Memphis—see, Memphis Uniform. Memphis Steam. They was organized, and Krauss was organized before we was, and also National Linen.	32:08
Laurie Green	Do you know how long they had had the union?	32:42
Hazel Wilson McGee	No.	32:42
Laurie Green	I read about that there were a lot of strikes of laundry workers during the war, during World War II, and—	32:57
Hazel Wilson McGee	I wasn't here.	33:06
Laurie Green	Yeah. I've been wondering about whether these unions then were able to continue all the way or whether they closed up and then had to restart all over again.	33:07
Hazel Wilson McGee	I don't know.	33:17
Laurie Green	Uh-huh. Well, after you got the union, did they ever try to de-certify? Did they ever try to [indistinct 00:33:27] management try to circulate a decertification?	33:18
Hazel Wilson McGee	[indistinct 00:33:32] one time they said that they were going to quit taking our the union dues, and they wasn't going have the union. But that was just him saying it from word of mouth, threatening people. That was all, evidently.	33:31
Laurie Green	Okay.	33:54
Hazel Wilson McGee	I've had the supervisor tell me, "Well, they are displeased with the union, Ms. Hazel. They want to get out." I said, "Well, I don't know how to tell them to get out." "Well, you can—" I said, "Well, they going to have to see Mr. Robinson."	33:58
Laurie Green	Who was Mr. Robinson?	34:04
Hazel Wilson McGee	He was our representative. No. But he wouldn't be the people. I think he was kind of just saying something. You could ask the person about it. He said, "No, I don't want to get out."	34:17
Hazel Wilson McGee	Another thing they heard, when the aviation people went on strike, you don't have it on?	34:29
Hazel Wilson McGee	—aviation people here, out of the [indistinct 00:34:38], went on strike and the president at that particular time, which was Reagan, ordered them fired. That hurt the union. That hurt the bargain. That was so sad that he was that narrow-mind, being the president of the United States.	34:33
Laurie Green	Were you still working at that time?	35:00
Hazel Wilson McGee	Mm-hmm.	35:02
Laurie Green	What was peoples' response to that?	35:04
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, everybody was upset about it because they knew it was wrong. Those people were entitled to fair working condition, and they were entitled to their rights. I think anytime a person go out, put they life on the line for a job, they're entitled to their right and they're entitled to good working condition.	35:06
Laurie Green	Yeah. Well, that really helped the sanitation strike [indistinct 00:35:36].	35:33
Hazel Wilson McGee	The city government. Yes. That Mr. Mayor Lorde was the mayor at that particular time. Woo. One of those people tote them tubs, them number three tubs on they head full of that junk and empty it over in those trucks. They didn't have it where they suck it up in the truck. They had to put it over in the bed of a truck, a open bed. But now they have something to pull it up in there, and they have the cots that they just hook on the back of the trucks and then it dump over in the truck.	35:44
Hazel Wilson McGee	But no, they had to empty those bowels, those 60-gallon drums was what people were using. They had to empty it over their tubs and then put it in the truck. A man stayed up there in that truck in that filth to catch the truck to dump it at all times. He seemed like he thought that people wasn't nothing but work hogs. He didn't want to [indistinct 00:36:43]. I'm sorry Dr. King came here and lost his life. But he was very supportive to the strike. Those people, now, I realize they would get off of work early, but they deserved to work about two hours the kind of work they were doing. All that old filth. And he didn't seem to care. He didn't want to have a raise. He first didn't want them to have a union, and then he didn't want them to have a raise. So, finally he left. When they got, they had chatted a while, I think he came behind a little. Then after he left, they had Hacking, and now they have Hertz [indistinct 00:37:55].	36:16
Hazel Wilson McGee	He has, not because he's a Black American, African American, He has done a beautiful job. I don't know what they going to say when reelected. But elder people with their houses, he fix them. They have got heat. [indistinct 00:38:11]. They fix them from nothing. He have so much going that we haven't had 8 or 12 years when we had that other man. If he'd have done have what's going on now, Memphis would be in better shape.	37:55
Laurie Green	Is that Hacking?	38:32
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah. Hacking. [indistinct 00:38:33].	38:32
Laurie Green	Now, had your husband, when he was working at the sanitation department before the strike, had he heard it all on the job?	38:33
Hazel Wilson McGee	No.	38:55
Laurie Green	What did he feel about it—?	38:55
Hazel Wilson McGee	Oh, you mean heard [indistinct 00:38:59]	38:57
Laurie Green	Well, I meant just physically, but you can talk about what it is like [indistinct 00:39:05]	39:00
Hazel Wilson McGee	Not, not physically. But he knew that the job wasn't paying what it should and he knew they was working too hard. But he had a family and he had to have a job. He just do like me, you, anybody else. He toughed it out until the working condition got better. By the time they really started making money, he was ready to retire. He retired because he had asthma so bad and he was very short-winded. He retired. He retired back in '75.	39:04
Laurie Green	Was that related [indistinct 00:39:41] his job?	39:40
Hazel Wilson McGee	I had never known him to have asthma until after he had worked for the sanitation department. We had been together for a number of years and he didn't have any problems. He started having it after we moved over here. We been over here 27 years in December, and we were moving here when he started having asthma, were moving [indistinct 00:40:04]. I won't say it was or wasn't because the doctor didn't say so. But I still believe all that filth and all that stuff they was inhaling, I believe that was really against your health. I don't say it gave him the asthma, but I know it wasn't good for him.	39:43
Laurie Green	Now, did you get involved with support for his strike?	40:34
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes. I guess I would say yeah because when he was on strike, that hurt the family. But now truthfully, money-wise, food-wise, we didn't have no problem. The union, I went and paid my rent. I was renting at that time. I went and paid my rent. When I came home, he had a money order that the union had gave him to pay the rent and the utility bill. I told him that's something we didn't do when both us work, pay two months at one time, because I couldn't do anything with the other order but send it to them.	40:48
Hazel Wilson McGee	They were very nice to us. I wouldn't want Memphis to be no better. Now, that's the only time I know most of the White and Blacks stuck together because White people supported us just like Black people. I know the Wiyarmin store over here, she called me one Saturday morning asking me what was I doing. I said, "Washing." She said, "Can you come up here a minute?" Wonder, what did she want? I went up there and she says, "I'm going to help you gather your groceries for the week." That was the owner. Sure did. She told me, "You don't owe me one penny." So many times, Amber had a grocery order there. He would give all of them, "I'm going to give all y'all a package of pork chops." They were just nice to the sanitation worker. They know they needed the people to keep the city clean. It's just like if the policemen and the firemen go out. I've known [indistinct 00:42:24] the firemens going on strike, and it would be more burning then than ever.	41:24
Laurie Green	Did you get involved with the meetings and the marching?	42:35
Hazel Wilson McGee	Oh, yes. I would go to the meeting, to the marching. When Dr. King would be here, I'd always go. Or when they was having a meeting, I would always go to the meeting because I wanted to hear.	42:39
Laurie Green	Uh-huh. What role did you play in supporting the strike other than keeping things going here?	42:51
Hazel Wilson McGee	That was all in the sanitation strike. We'd always go to the sanitation, the meetings they would have. When they have a march downtown, I would always go. That was all the support I could really give them.	43:01
Hazel Wilson McGee	When they strike, they won. I think they stayed out. Now, that, I can't say. I don't think they stayed out about two months, I guess. Oh, yeah. Mayor Lorde had, while they was on strike, they brought the people from the [indistinct 00:43:47] farm to pick up garbage and asked them to put it on the street. But they wasn't allowed to go in the back of your house. They would have guards—I guess you'd call them guards. They'd have somebody with the truck. That's one thing. They didn't have anything to pick up because the people wouldn't push there, wouldn't roll their drums to the street, to the curb. They'd leave it in the backyard. So, they'd make sure they wouldn't pick it up.	43:12
Laurie Green	They did that as a protest?	44:15
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah. I think they was protesting. They would not—because those mens at that time, they would go in your yard and roll them to the curb. Then when Mayor Lorde ordered everybody to put their garbage on the curb, and they brought people out there, ten of them, to pick it up, people would not roll it to the curb. They'd let it sit back there because they know sooner or later the city was going to be in real, real bad shape because it ain't rolling no where. Let them go back there and get it, and they know they wasn't allowed to in they back yard. [indistinct 00:44:51]	44:19
Laurie Green	Did people protest this all over the city?	44:54
Hazel Wilson McGee	Now, way out, I really don't know. Way out, like in the White neighborhood. But around in the neighborhoods we would be in, and people we would talk to, they would tell you, "No, I'm not rolling now. They can sit back there." Lord, and when those men went back to work, they had some work to do. They couldn't go too far because they had so much to pick up. It had piled up on them.	44:57
Laurie Green	It sounds like there was just really solid support—	45:24
Hazel Wilson McGee	It was.	45:28
Laurie Green	—in the community.	45:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	For the sanitation worker.	45:28
Laurie Green	But why do you think that was? Why were people so behind the sanitation worker?	45:31
Hazel Wilson McGee	I really don't know why. I guess they know they—well, the people always done a pretty good job, and they realized that they needed those people to pick they garbage up, and they felt like it was just wrong what Lorde was doing, and they just supported the sanitation worker. Sure did. Policemen, everybody. I think that's when the policemen began to get a bit too friendly with people. They would pass and speak to you and all the other time—well, we had more White policemen at that particular time. Very few Black policemen came over. White firemen.	45:33
Laurie Green	You know that slogan from the strike, "I am a man"?	46:05
Hazel Wilson McGee	Oh, yeah.	46:05

Hazel Wilson McGee	—and to me, it meant don't let nobody push you 'round. Stand up and be a man. Because you had to feel like they might have said things, or do things, but you still was going be a man. Now, that's what it meant to me. And still there's nothing on the—what they say, you can't do this, and we ain't going do that. Stand up and be a man. Let them know that you were a man.	0:02
Laurie Green	Mm-hmm.	0:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	They really stood up and were men that time, they never stand up no more.	0:31
Laurie Green	And do you think it also meant something to women who participated in the strike? Supported—	0:37
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes, I'm sure it did.	0:42
Laurie Green	What do you think it meant to women?	0:43
Hazel Wilson McGee	It meant if you can be a man, I can be a woman. If you're strong, I can be strong. Like, that's the way I feel about it.	0:45
Hazel Wilson McGee	—at the morning, that where they work was over here, up front. Where we work was right across from there, the [indistinct 00:01:03] was on the front. And the place we worked was on Wright Street. We had the place right by the barn. He had told me, that we going on strike. But I don't think—I don't remember him telling me the morning they was going. I said, "Well, you can go on strike, just like I did."	0:51
Laurie Green	Uh-huh.	1:20
Hazel Wilson McGee	In relay. I was on my way to work, and several of us, we was on the bus. City bus. And a girl said to me, "Look, [indistinct 00:01:35]. The sanitation workers is finally on strike. They been saying—" So we pulled the cord and got off, she and I. We got off and walked back down there. And I asked one of the guys, where was my husband. He said, "He just walked out and went down the street." Said, "Look, you probably seen him." He say he's going home. So I went on to the plant, and I worked about time I thought he was home, and I used the phone, to call. And he said, "No, I ain't going back until they get something settled, and if they don't get nothing settled—" you know, he was going to go the meeting and be active in it, but not to work.	1:25
Hazel Wilson McGee	And I said, "No, if I could stay out seven months, I'm sure you can stay out." He said, "Well, it may happen."	2:11
Laurie Green	So you encouraged him?	2:19
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah.	2:24
Laurie Green	Uh-huh.	2:24
Hazel Wilson McGee	I don't think I would have liked—after I had done been out seven months and two weeks, and he done went out and stayed a couple of days, that would make me feel like that he wasn't like the slogan.	2:24
Laurie Green	Yeah. Yeah.	2:34
Hazel Wilson McGee	"Be a man." But he really wanted to go on, and he stayed out. And I was very supportive to him. We have a son. He was working at that particular time, he [indistinct 00:02:49], and he was working. And he was right there for us.	2:35
Laurie Green	Your son?	2:54
Hazel Wilson McGee	Mm-hmm.	2:55
Laurie Green	And he walked the picket line with you?	2:57
Hazel Wilson McGee	No. Uh-uh. He had his own job. He was driving for Pepsi-Cola Bottling Company. At that particular time. But I mean, he would help us any way he could. Financial, or whatever.	3:00
Laurie Green	And you and your husband, had you ever been involved with any kind of activism before you all got involved with the unions? No? In the laundry workers union, did women become leaders in that union?	3:16
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah. We had good women. Down at the headquarters, in Atlanta, Georgia, we had women who worked down there. And they served on various committees and things. But I don't remember having nobody who had lady representatives, because we don't have—our President, no, their President, at the time, is a man. The Executive Secretary, Treasurer is a man.	3:40
Laurie Green	Is there ever any discussion about whether, since the workers were mostly women, what it might mean, to have a President—	4:16
Hazel Wilson McGee	A woman President?	4:24
Laurie Green	—be a woman? Yeah. Did you ever have any—	4:26
Hazel Wilson McGee	No, we haven't had that discussion when I was there. See, I've been [indistinct 00:04:32] seven years. Not while I was there. I don't remember that discussion. From the times of the strike.	4:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	—well, I had four.	4:28
Laurie Green	Four children?	4:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	Uh-huh. Well, I had—	4:28
Laurie Green	Four children that were in school at the time of the strike?	4:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	I had Larry who was in school, Roy, Joanne, and I—well, all four. Larry was at the little school. But he was [indistinct 00:05:00]. He was very young. And at that particular time, I had three going to Carver High School over here, on [indistinct 00:05:11]. And we were living across the track, on Michigan.	4:52
Laurie Green	I'm sorry, Michigan?	5:18
Hazel Wilson McGee	Michigan.	5:19
Laurie Green	Uh-huh.	5:20
Hazel Wilson McGee	Street. And somebody, clowning, went over there and started throwing paint at the school. And then my oldest daughter got away. She got out. [indistinct 00:05:35] her ride was going home. And she ran all the way home, she was out of breath, they said, when she got home. And then she called me. They had a group called the Invaders.	5:20
Laurie Green	The Invaders?	5:47
Hazel Wilson McGee	Uh-huh.	5:48
Laurie Green	Uh-huh.	5:49
Hazel Wilson McGee	That's what was over there tearing the school up. And she ran all the way home, and my baby was going to Kansas Elementary School. And they went over there, and they hit my baby on the leg with a brick. And some young man that was—you know when the small children out without they parents? A bigger brother, or something. And a boy that was a friend of my oldest son went over there and told the school that that was his little brother, and brought him home. Which was good.	5:49
Laurie Green	Yeah.	6:20
Hazel Wilson McGee	And I was at work.	6:21
Hazel Wilson McGee	She was a [indistinct 00:06:28]. That's my daughter.	6:28
Laurie Green	Uh-huh.	6:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	She was smiled, too. She was over in the car. That was up where she was. And they had him in the room, and wouldn't let him out. You know, feared they would get hurt. I went over the car and got mine. I just [indistinct 00:06:51]. And Mr Hart had a baseball bat. Y'all, nobody go [indistinct 00:06:57]. I said, "Long as I got some children in there, I'm going." "Hey, ma'am, ma'am, you can't go—" I said, "Oh yeah, I'm going."	6:31
Hazel Wilson McGee	You know, my children was in there, I had to go do what I had to do.	7:00
Laurie Green	So, this riot of the Invaders, at Carver?	7:10
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes.	7:14
Laurie Green	This was—during the sanitation strike?	7:17
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yeah, that's during the time Dr. King got killed. Is when we had—	7:21
Laurie Green	And what did your kids think about it?	7:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	They were scared to death. My oldest daughter ran home, and I said, when she got up on the porch, she had to pull her shoes off. You know?	7:30
Laurie Green	Now, had they marched with Dr. King?	7:46
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes, they went down, my oldest, my second son went down.	7:48
Laurie Green	Uh-huh.	7:50
Hazel Wilson McGee	And they got that pounding. Well, my [indistinct 00:07:56]. And somebody flipped their food, and kicked the plate glass out of the window of the store, and I guess he ran all the way home, almost. He came to the house. He said he couldn't go no more. [indistinct 00:08:08] crazy, by then. Police had their nightsticks wield at folks, and going off. Said, he's staying home. He couldn't take it.	7:52
Hazel Wilson McGee	Excuse me. That was over there. He left, and he's a big boy.	8:24
Laurie Green	Uh-huh.	8:28
Hazel Wilson McGee	[indistinct 00:08:29]. 10th, 11th grade. He going go back, see what was going on, [indistinct 00:08:36]. Got him. He went back, but I don't think he's [indistinct 00:08:40] school, to see what was going on. [indistinct 00:08:53].	8:32
Hazel Wilson McGee	It was rough here, then. And there was so many fires. Grocery stores. And it didn't really make sense, in a sense. But they got some action. We had two broke-in stores, on the corner. A tree, and [indistinct 00:09:20]. They set both of those stores on fire, and burned them real bad.	8:52
Laurie Green	Why do you think those stores were targeted?	9:22
Hazel Wilson McGee	It was the drugstore, right up here on Mackinaw. They burned it. They did a lot of burning. They [indistinct 00:09:34]. But I don't think the Invaders was doing it all. I think other people was just—it was going on and other people were just joining in, doing [indistinct 00:09:49] number one dirt. I don't think the Invaders was doing [indistinct 00:09:53]. I know they say that they done some things. But I think other people were joining in, they was blaiming it on the Invaders.	9:22
Hazel Wilson McGee	They had the Civil Rights Movement, they had the sit-in. I wasn't involved with those. It wasn't because I wouldn't love to. But I had small children. So, I had children, I didn't want to be locked up and leave my children. But they sure was home that day. That's my reason for not getting involved. I didn't want [indistinct 00:10:31].	9:59
Laurie Green	Can you speak up a little bit?	10:31
Hazel Wilson McGee	—like in a restaurant. The Black had to go around to the back, and go in, and the White. And on the city bus, we had to ride in the back, and I don't care how packed they got back there, the old driver would say, "Go on back to the back. Go back to the back." He'd say, while a person getting on. Well, they got tired of that. And when they sit down, they don't get up.	10:32
Laurie Green	Did you feel like the Labor Movement that you and your husband were part of, did you feel like that was part of the Civil Rights Movement?	11:07
Hazel Wilson McGee	Yes. It had to be. I believe it were.	11:12
Laurie Green	Can you talk about that? What did it mean to you, in relation to the Civil Rights Movement?	11:19
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well, I feel like if we hadn't started the Civil Rights Movement, that the Labor Movement never would have came about. I don't believe it would have. If it would, it'd have been at a later date.	11:25
Laurie Green	Did the Labor Movement—you and your husband's stories are two different instances of the Labor Movement developing in that period. Was there other ways in which the Labor Movement became stronger in the 1960s, in Memphis? Or other—other groups of people who started unionizing for the first time?	11:42
Hazel Wilson McGee	Well—I really don't know about—but I think the [indistinct 00:12:14] workers, I believe. I believe they was organized after the Laundry Workers' Union was organized. I believe they were. Or if they hadn't, it was there—[indistinct 00:12:31]. I don't know how long they had had their union. And then, other places, like the high schools, they had organizers, then. They had joined a union. They got their [indistinct 00:12:45], and they tried to vote it out. I just don't understand really what they done, because I hadn't been keeping up with them. [indistinct 00:12:52]. I read in the paper a few days ago, that they are going back to the bargaining table, and I guess they feel they can't get rid of them, so they got to bargain. Those are in particular, I know about.	12:08
Laurie Green	Right.	13:15
Hazel Wilson McGee	Mm-hmm. Told you, until Reagan, President Regan fired those aviation people, the union was very strong. But it looked like they began to feel like if Regan can fire, we can, too. So they had to do some fighting. [indistinct 00:13:40]. Well, I guess his old timer was, old Harmon was leading the zebras, working on him, then.	13:17

Item Info

Title:

Hazel McGee interview recordings, 1995 August 11

Date:

August 11, 1995

Creator:

McGee, Hazel Wilson

Contributor:

Green, Laurie

Description:

Name: Hazel Wilson McGee; Date of birth: 1922-01-31; Place of birth: Tallahatchie Co., MS; Occupation(s): laundress; domestic; food services; Residence: Memphis, TN
Informant ID: 849, 853; Interviewed by: Laurie Green.

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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Hazel McGee interview recordings, 1995 August 11

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1. Hazel McGee administrative file, 1995

2. Hazel McGee administrative file, 1995

3. Hazel McGee interview recording, 1995 July 06

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Hazel McGee interview recordings, 1995 August 11

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