Mary Johnson interview recording, 1994 June 27

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Michele Mitchell	Okay, Mrs. Johnson, could you tell me, first of all, let me say that this is June 27th, Monday.	0:04
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh.	0:11
Michele Mitchell	And could you tell me where you were born, Mrs. Johnson?	0:14
Mary Hazel Johnson	Born in New Orleans.	0:18
Michele Mitchell	Born in New Orleans.	0:19
Mary Hazel Johnson	And going down at Charity Hospital.	0:23
Michele Mitchell	And what year was that, ma'am?	0:29
Mary Hazel Johnson	When I was born?	0:30
Michele Mitchell	Mm-hmm.	0:30
Mary Hazel Johnson	1914.	0:33
Michele Mitchell	Really? 1914?	0:35
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh, I'll be 80 years old next month or this month. No, July the 2nd, I'll be 80 years old.	0:40
Michele Mitchell	Really? Could you tell me a little bit about the neighborhood that you grew up in? Where did you grow up?	0:50
Mary Hazel Johnson	Back on Jackson Avenue.	1:02
Michele Mitchell	The only Jackson Avenue I know of is close down to.	1:06
Mary Hazel Johnson	Back Jackson Avenue between Prieur and Johnson.	1:10
Michele Mitchell	Prairie?	1:21
Mary Hazel Johnson	Prieur and Johnson.	1:21
Michele Mitchell	Was the neighborhood all Black?	1:30
Mary Hazel Johnson	All Black.	1:30
Michele Mitchell	Yes?	1:30
Mary Hazel Johnson	All Black.	1:31
Michele Mitchell	Did y'all have stores or?	1:38
Mary Hazel Johnson	We had store. We had store, but they were owned by the White people that stood on the corner of Jackson and Prieur.	1:39
Michele Mitchell	And just whatever you'd like to tell me about the neighborhood. What was it like?	1:53
Mary Hazel Johnson	It was pretty fair because we stayed to ourselves because my mother had to work. And my brother was the oldest and I was next. And we had to stay inside till my mama come home.	1:56
Michele Mitchell	Did your mother say why?	2:13
Mary Hazel Johnson	Because she didn't want nobody to bother us while we be running the streets. So the best way to leave us inside until she come home and then she would let us out, and where we could play around in the yard and thing while she do whatever she wanted to do.	2:15
Michele Mitchell	Where did your mother work?	2:36
Mary Hazel Johnson	She work at different houses, doing housework and whatever.	2:38
Michele Mitchell	Did your mother, I mean, when would she come home in the afternoon?	2:51
Mary Hazel Johnson	After in the afternoon around about 5:30, something like that. She would get 8:00 till 5:00, 5:30, something like that when she get home by 5:30 in the evening.	2:55
Michele Mitchell	And what sort of things would you do when your mother wasn't home?	3:10
Mary Hazel Johnson	We stayed inside.	3:13
Michele Mitchell	Did you cook?	3:18
Mary Hazel Johnson	We had food already cooked, all we had to do was warm it. At 12 o'clock, she told my brother when 12 o'clock come, when you hear a ring for the 12 o'clock, then you warm the food and feed them. And after that then we had wait till supper time.	3:20
Michele Mitchell	Yes. And did you go to school in the neighborhood?	3:36
Mary Hazel Johnson	We wasn't big enough to go to school.	3:49
Michele Mitchell	Yeah. When you did start going to school, where did you go?	3:55
Mary Hazel Johnson	Thomy Lafon.	3:59
Michele Mitchell	Was that a?	4:07
Mary Hazel Johnson	Public school.	4:08
Michele Mitchell	And how far did you have to walk to get there?	4:12
Mary Hazel Johnson	Oh, we had to walk good piece from the school to our house. It was a good piece, I don't know how. Can't think how far it been. Good morning.	4:15
Speaker 1	Morning.	4:32
Mary Hazel Johnson	I don't know just how far it was, but it was a good piece.	4:32
Michele Mitchell	Was it a nice walk?	4:35
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yeah, well we running, played all the way on to school.	4:36
Michele Mitchell	Did you have to walk out of your neighborhood? I mean, you said it's a good piece. Was it out of your neighborhood?	4:46
Mary Hazel Johnson	Out of my neighborhood, no. Not out of my neighborhood, but a good piece back from where I lived.	4:54
Michele Mitchell	Was school, was it something that went by quickly? Was it something that you just?	5:03
Mary Hazel Johnson	It didn't go by too quickly. Well, we did nice in school. Especially me. I wait till the last minute to try to get all my stuff together. I was so busy playing and cutting up. I was a cut upper.	5:06
Michele Mitchell	You were?	5:30
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yes. I was. When they go up there for [indistinct 00:05:42], I would just count the children that go ahead of me. And when I got to the board, I knew just what I wanted to do. I just would put the numbers up there and sit down because no, I wasn't too dumb in school. But I was bad, I was very bad.	5:32
Michele Mitchell	Did you get in trouble with the teachers?	6:06
Mary Hazel Johnson	With my homeroom teacher, I got in trouble because I talked too much and cut up too much. But other teachers, yeah, they didn't have much trouble with me. But in my homeroom teacher, she had a lot of trouble.	6:09
Michele Mitchell	And at Thomy Lafon, were most of the teachers White or were they Black?	6:26
Mary Hazel Johnson	They Black. They were light-skinned but dark, Colored people.	6:29
Michele Mitchell	You mean real light-skinned?	6:33
Mary Hazel Johnson	Some light-skinned, some dark skin, some Black.	6:36
Michele Mitchell	Do you remember other kids ever talking about things like that?	6:44
Mary Hazel Johnson	The best of my, most all of them, the children I went to school with is all dead now. To the best part of my, they're dead, I don't remember.	6:53
Michele Mitchell	So you don't remember whether or not it was a big deal if somebody was light-skinned or dark-skinned?	7:02
Mary Hazel Johnson	Well, what you mean?	7:12
Michele Mitchell	Sometimes people say things like, "Oh, well you're too dark for me," or.	7:16
Mary Hazel Johnson	Oh no, it never was that because we didn't allowed to say nothing like that. We wasn't allowed. And if you was jet black, we wasn't allowed to say it.	7:23
Michele Mitchell	And nobody did.	7:36
Mary Hazel Johnson	Nobody in my family, they didn't. I don't know about nobody else's family. But in my family they didn't say you're too Black or you're too light or you're too or whatever you was, that we mingle with all the children. At school, we mingled with everybody. Just did our little thing out there.	7:37
Michele Mitchell	They had a good time.	8:02
Mary Hazel Johnson	You had a good time. All I didn't want the teachers to catch me. I had a time.	8:07
Michele Mitchell	What sort of things, I mean, did you listen to music or what sort of things did you like to do for fun?	8:19
Mary Hazel Johnson	Cut up.	8:25
Michele Mitchell	Cut up.	8:26
Mary Hazel Johnson	I love to cut up.	8:31
Michele Mitchell	When you say cut up, what do you mean?	8:33
Mary Hazel Johnson	Hitting on the children and pinch them or whatever I did.	8:35
Michele Mitchell	And after Thomy Lafon, did you go to another school?	8:48
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-uh.	8:49
Michele Mitchell	No?	8:50
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-uh.	8:50
Michele Mitchell	Did you start, it sounds like you've got, that you had younger brothers and sisters?	8:51
Mary Hazel Johnson	I had two younger sisters. And one older brother, we just was four of us. One brother and two sisters.	8:56
Michele Mitchell	What sort of thing did you do after you finished school? Did you go to work?	9:07
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-uh.	9:12
Michele Mitchell	Yeah?	9:13
Mary Hazel Johnson	I mind my baby.	9:14
Michele Mitchell	Yeah? I mean, did you have a baby boy or a girl?	9:19
Mary Hazel Johnson	A boy.	9:21
Michele Mitchell	Yeah?	9:23
Mary Hazel Johnson	Huh?	9:23
Michele Mitchell	Were you still living at home?	9:32
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh.	9:35
Michele Mitchell	Yeah? And what did you name your baby?	9:36
Mary Hazel Johnson	Samuel.	9:39
Michele Mitchell	Samuel? Was there a point ma'am, that you did go out and work?	9:40
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-uh.	9:49
Michele Mitchell	Yeah? Did you have any other children?	9:51
Mary Hazel Johnson	Well, I had other children, but later after.	9:54
Michele Mitchell	Did you get married at some point?	9:59
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-uh.	10:00
Michele Mitchell	No? And just in terms of going around the city, just at any point in your life, did you go to other neighborhoods and take the bus or what sort of?	10:01
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yeah, when I did start working, I had other children then I went to work for 8:00 in the morning and I came home about 4:00 in the evening. But when we come from work, a lot of times we didn't have nowhere to sit because the White people had taken up all the seats, on both from the back to the front, had taken up all, sometimes they just had one in the seat and just take it all up till there wasn't no more seats for us to sit on. So we had to set up and crowd up behind on the way the Colored people was. And lot of times they didn't want you to even stand over them.	10:21
Michele Mitchell	Really?	11:09
Mary Hazel Johnson	Really. Didn't want you to stand over.	11:11
Michele Mitchell	This was on the bus.	11:15
Mary Hazel Johnson	On the bus.	11:16
Michele Mitchell	What would you do?	11:18
Mary Hazel Johnson	But it was on a streetcar. Our bus, it was a streetcar then. It was Canal Streetcar where we had to stand up. But the streetcar driver, he didn't say anything to but by the standing up behind down that. He didn't say anything about it. But we had a hard time. We didn't have too hard time getting away, but we had a hard time coming back.	11:19
Michele Mitchell	Why?	11:51
Mary Hazel Johnson	Because we had to stand up coming back.	11:51
Michele Mitchell	But going to work, you didn't have to stand?	11:54
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-uh. Plenty of time. We didn't have to stand up because we had a lot of room going to work. But to come back from work, then we had trouble. Because one time a lady asked a White lady to just move up another seat so we could sit down. She told him no because we ain't going that far. And she went all the way out to Canal, out Canal Street.	11:57
Michele Mitchell	So she just sat there.	12:26
Mary Hazel Johnson	She just sat there just to keep us from sitting down. That's all I could see.	12:27
Michele Mitchell	And this was after a long day of work.	12:36
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh.	12:38
Michele Mitchell	Did you work for somebody?	12:40
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yeah, I worked for a White, I don't know what the, I can't think of that woman name now, but I worked for a White woman.	12:42
Michele Mitchell	Was she downtown? I mean.	12:54
Mary Hazel Johnson	She's out in metro somewhere back then. It's so long, I done forgot where it was.	12:56
Michele Mitchell	But you had to travel, I mean you had to go a ways.	13:02
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh, yeah. I had to go to the inner Canal Street and then catch another bus and go back to her, the street where she lived. I had to catch two streetcars.	13:04
Michele Mitchell	Two streetcars.	13:23
Mary Hazel Johnson	Mm-hmm.	13:24
Michele Mitchell	And on both streetcars, whenever you went to work, when you went out, you could sit.	13:25
Mary Hazel Johnson	Because wasn't many White people on that going, because the best part I'm was hadn't hadn't left home yet. Because if they didn't go after nine o'clock or nine o'clock, they get there for whatever they want to do. But we Colored people, we had to be there for eight. Because a lady I worked for, she had to be to work for time between 8:00 and probably 8:15. So I had to get their earlier so she could leave because she had two children that I mind. But at that time in my mind, I kept house, I didn't have to wash, but I had to do everything else in the house. Do housework and all, everything. That you didn't have but one person awake, and that was me.	13:32
Michele Mitchell	Did you have to cook?	14:29
Mary Hazel Johnson	No, I didn't have to cook. But she'd always leave something there for us to eat.	14:30
Michele Mitchell	How old were her, I mean were the children small when you started working for her?	14:42
Mary Hazel Johnson	She one about about three year old and a little boy about four or five, something like that.	14:46
Michele Mitchell	Mrs. Johnson, what time did you have to get up to? I mean, if you had to be at her house at eight o'clock in the morning?	14:55
Mary Hazel Johnson	I'd get up in the morning.	15:04
Michele Mitchell	You got up early?	15:05
Mary Hazel Johnson	I got up early and cook my children food and all, and then left. I had to get up real early in the morning. Real early.	15:07
Michele Mitchell	You must have.	15:18
Mary Hazel Johnson	But I got a, had a job. And I had to go fill. If I didn't, somebody else would.	15:23
Michele Mitchell	Where would you buy food to feed your children?	15:33
Mary Hazel Johnson	Oh, I'd go on Saturdays because I wasn't working on Saturdays and Sundays. I'd working on Monday to Friday. And sometime Friday evening when I'd leave work, I'd go pick up my groceries and have my children come. I make grocery back on Broad between Washington and [indistinct 00:16:04]. At the time, I had the Hill store then. And I make my groceries back there and I had my two boys to come with their little wagons and picked me up, picked the groceries up and carried the groceries on home.	15:38
Michele Mitchell	So they'd help you?	16:18
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh.	16:19
Michele Mitchell	But that would mean that if you were going to get food on Saturday, that's a bit of a chore.	16:26
Mary Hazel Johnson	A must. And if I go on Friday evening and make my groceries, I'll go Saturday morning up over there somewhere where, where Canal and River was at that time, up on [indistinct 00:16:55] Street. I'd come up here and get my ground, other kind of meat, because it was different prices and different meats. And I'd go there and get my meat up there.	16:33
Michele Mitchell	Did you like Canal Villere? Did you like that store?	17:07
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh. When I move up here, I love it.	17:09
Michele Mitchell	Around when did you move here? Around how old were you when you moved up here?	17:16
Mary Hazel Johnson	I've been living in this house now since 19, I'm forgetting now. It been so long. When the project had not too long old.	17:21
Michele Mitchell	Really?	17:34
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yeah. But they had one family in there before I was, and she moved out then I'll move in.	17:34
Michele Mitchell	Which project is it?	17:41
Mary Hazel Johnson	Magnolia. Is that Martin Luther King now. Oh no, they ain't Martin Luther King. It's Peete Project. Peete home. Peete. No, I can't say, Peete Homes or Peete something. JCP.	17:42
Michele Mitchell	JC Peete homes?	17:57
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh. And I've been living up here, woo Lord, long time. And I was in my teens. But about 30, about 35 years ago. I've been living up in the Magnolia Project for years and years and years.	17:58
Michele Mitchell	And what was it like when you first moved in, ma'am? Did you like it?	18:20
Mary Hazel Johnson	I liked it because I made my children stay inside like my mother made me stay inside. And they always could play in the house where they couldn't get nowhere else. And when you in the house, you ain't no wrong. You can't do nothing wrong in the house. If you did wrong, I'd straighten it and they wouldn't do that any more.	18:26
Michele Mitchell	And was there a reason that you liked Canal Villere? Just because it was close?	19:01
Mary Hazel Johnson	Not because it was close because I had to go, I walk up here and then I ride back, because I had so much of meat and stuff, I'd ride back and it was pretty good. Really pretty good, that they had cheap meat. At that time, they had meat real cheap.	19:06
Michele Mitchell	Real, real cheap?	19:24
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yeah. Wasn't that much money hanging around. So we had to take what we can and wherever we find something cheap at, we'd go to that grocery.	19:29
Michele Mitchell	And this was on Freret?	19:38
Mary Hazel Johnson	On Freret, and it was right across over there somewhere. Right over that road, where Canal and River was. I mean, well. It was on Freret and, I don't know what street that was, but the cart stopped up there because of.	19:43
Michele Mitchell	I just had something that, you said something that really interested me and now I'm trying to remember. Oh yeah, you talked about going to work for the woman way out.	20:16
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh.	20:28
Michele Mitchell	What was she like?	20:30
Mary Hazel Johnson	She was very nice.	20:31
Michele Mitchell	Was she nice?	20:32
Mary Hazel Johnson	Mm-hmm.	20:33
Michele Mitchell	Mm-hmm.	20:33
Mary Hazel Johnson	Plenty of times, she'd bring me home but she couldn't come get me. But she'd bring me home sometimes.	20:37
Michele Mitchell	So you wouldn't have to stand on the car?	20:44
Mary Hazel Johnson	Wouldn't have nothing to worry about when she brought me home.	20:47
Michele Mitchell	I only have a couple more questions I'd like to ask. Have you more or less, have you ever had, in terms of living around folks and dealing with folks day to day, have you ever had any really bad things happen in terms of interacting with White people? Or has it just been more or less okay?	20:57
Mary Hazel Johnson	Well, we didn't live around White people so we had no problem.	21:22
Michele Mitchell	Takes care of that, right?	21:27
Mary Hazel Johnson	That's right. Take care right now.	21:28
Michele Mitchell	So it was mostly on the streetcar then? You ever go anywhere where just around town where there were White people or more or less just in your own neighborhood that you went to?	21:34
Mary Hazel Johnson	Around in my neighborhood, I didn't wander way off going nowhere. I didn't kept on wandering way off from home.	21:52
Michele Mitchell	Ma'am, do you think things have changed a lot?	22:08
Mary Hazel Johnson	Oh yeah, it has changed a lot. A lot. Because they more killing. More killing and. It wasn't for that, we wouldn't have too much trouble there wasn't so much of killing. People killing not just to be killing.	22:11
Michele Mitchell	So in a way you think that things were better, back beforehand?	22:32
Mary Hazel Johnson	In one way it was, in one way it wasn't. Six one way and half a dozen another.	22:37
Michele Mitchell	The last things I have to ask you real quick. Just your children's names, your brothers and sisters' names, if that's okay.	22:48
Mary Hazel Johnson	Okay.	22:58
Michele Mitchell	Okay.	22:59
Mary Hazel Johnson	Want the dead or alive?	22:59
Michele Mitchell	Actually, whatever you feel comfortable with telling me.	23:03
Mary Hazel Johnson	My brother there was Samuel Harvey. I mean Samuel. Not Samuel Harvey. My son named Samuel Harvey. Give me this, Samuel Clinton.	23:09
Michele Mitchell	Sammy? Clinton?	23:19
Mary Hazel Johnson	Clinton. Samuel Clinton.	23:21
Michele Mitchell	That's his middle name?	23:25
Mary Hazel Johnson	That's his whole name, Samuel Clinton.	23:26
Michele Mitchell	Clinton, and then there was you?	23:28
Mary Hazel Johnson	Was me.	23:33
Michele Mitchell	You were born after him.	23:34
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh.	23:39
Michele Mitchell	Was your last name Clinton or?	23:39
Mary Hazel Johnson	Johnson.	23:42
Michele Mitchell	It was Johnson. Okay, that's what I thought. And then you had two sisters.	23:43
Mary Hazel Johnson	Dorothy, I mean, Ideall McMillan [indistinct 00:23:53] after me.	23:49
Michele Mitchell	Ideall?	23:49
Mary Hazel Johnson	I-D-E-A-L-L.	23:52
Michele Mitchell	McMillan.	23:53
Mary Hazel Johnson	McMillan.	23:58
Michele Mitchell	Okay.	23:59
Mary Hazel Johnson	And Dorothy Square, S-Q-U-A-R-E.	24:02
Michele Mitchell	S-Q-U-I?	24:06
Mary Hazel Johnson	S-Q-U-A-R-E, Square.	24:08
Michele Mitchell	And then Samuel was your son?	24:13
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yeah, my son was Samuel Harvery.	24:20
Michele Mitchell	Harvery.	24:24
Mary Hazel Johnson	H-A-R-V-E-R-Y, Harvery.	24:24
Michele Mitchell	And then, do you have any other children?	24:24
Mary Hazel Johnson	I got Ethlyn.	24:31
Michele Mitchell	Ethel?	24:32
Mary Hazel Johnson	Ethlyn. E-T-H-L-Y-N.	24:33
Michele Mitchell	Okay.	24:35
Mary Hazel Johnson	Jones. That's her married name now.	24:38
Michele Mitchell	That's her married name?	24:42
Mary Hazel Johnson	Mm-hmm, Johnson was her.	24:44
Michele Mitchell	Okay.	24:46
Mary Hazel Johnson	And Evelyn. And then Mary Louise. Do you want her married name or?	24:55
Michele Mitchell	Birth name?	25:05
Mary Hazel Johnson	Mary Louise Johnson.	25:08
Michele Mitchell	Okay. Any other children?	25:14
Mary Hazel Johnson	I'll give you the wrong thing. Well, Mary Louise, little way out at the bottom. Oh, but Mary Louise Johnson and then Johnny Johnson. That's his, their maiden name.	25:18
Michele Mitchell	Okay. J-O-H-N.	25:42
Mary Hazel Johnson	S-O-N. J-O-H-N-S-O-N.	25:44
Michele Mitchell	And the first name was J-O-H-N-N-I-E? Was it Johnnie Johnson?	25:46
Mary Hazel Johnson	Johnny. J-O-H-N-N-Y. Johnny. And then Frank Johnson. And I give you, yeah. I forget now, Ethlyn and. Harris Matthew.	25:52
Michele Mitchell	They were born in New Orleans?	26:16
Mary Hazel Johnson	All of them born in New Orleans. Here, ooh lord. I got 12, 12 of them. How many I got down in now?	26:43
Michele Mitchell	Six.	26:56
Mary Hazel Johnson	I got six more somewhere. Alvin.	27:00
Michele Mitchell	Alvin?	27:10
Mary Hazel Johnson	Matthews. Jerry Matthews	27:11
Michele Mitchell	With a J?	27:19
Mary Hazel Johnson	J-E-R-R-Y, Jerry. Johnny Johnson. He is a Matthew, I think on the record.	27:20
Michele Mitchell	You must be proud of your children.	27:52
Mary Hazel Johnson	Oh Lord, I am.	27:56
Michele Mitchell	Yeah.	27:58
Mary Hazel Johnson	One of my son home sick now, but he's my best. He's my best.	27:59
Michele Mitchell	Really? This is his. This is?	28:05
Mary Hazel Johnson	Jerry Matthews.	28:09
Michele Mitchell	Jerry?	28:10
Mary Hazel Johnson	He's the best. He teach, substitute teacher.	28:11
Michele Mitchell	Really?	28:17
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh.	28:18
Michele Mitchell	Uh-huh?	28:18
Mary Hazel Johnson	He got an education honey. And he's still trying to get more. He's so sorry he couldn't go to school today. "Mama, I have to drop out of school." I hate to drop out. Then he go to school summer and winter. Ever since he graduated from college, he going to school. He trying to take up, I don't know what he trying to take up, but honey, he taking up something.	28:19
Michele Mitchell	Yeah. That is beautiful.	28:47
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yes, indeed. All my children is fine. But Jerry is the best. Now. I didn't think he was going to be the best, but he's the best. But I won't tell him that. I won't tell him that. He said, "Well, I'm doing more than my brothers," but Jerry is the best.	28:51
Michele Mitchell	And so you just kept them all in line by.	29:12
Mary Hazel Johnson	And what I did, I raised the chairman without a father.	29:15
Michele Mitchell	You must be, I mean that really is something that's just.	29:20
Mary Hazel Johnson	But what I did when I played with them, I played with them just like another child. But when I got tired, I said, "Now I'm tired now, I want to rest." Just to quit the playing. We wrestled, we did everything together because I was young when I had children so I didn't mind playing with them.	29:26
Michele Mitchell	Yeah.	29:47
Mary Hazel Johnson	Because I was 16 when I first had a child. And honey, I played when I left. The first thing, my son got old enough, Jerry, I mean the oldest boy, I used to go skating with him.	29:49
Michele Mitchell	You used to take him skating?	30:09
Mary Hazel Johnson	The oldest one. I didn't take the smaller one. I just took, me and Sammy went to skating, and we skate up and down Sixth Street like crazy. And when they said something bad, he said, "Watch my mama now. Watch my mama." He said, "Respect my mama."	30:11
Michele Mitchell	Really?	30:29
Mary Hazel Johnson	I said, "Sammy, you'll not tell them that I'm your mama." They said, well after that then they all just escaped together just like a young bunch of people. But I wasn't 16 years older than him. So I could skate and do everything else I wanted to.	30:31
Michele Mitchell	It's been fun.	30:53
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yeah, it really was fun. Good morning.	30:53
Michele Mitchell	Good morning Mr. Dispenza, how are you?	31:01
Mr. Dispenza	Pretty good, and you?	31:01
Michele Mitchell	Good.	31:01
Mary Hazel Johnson	You really had a nice time. I had a nice time raising my children.	31:02
Michele Mitchell	He must have because you're just beaming right now.	31:08
Mary Hazel Johnson	I don't have no complaint with him. No complaint at all.	31:10
Michele Mitchell	That is wonderful. I mean, and to be able to find time to.	31:20
Mary Hazel Johnson	But I coming up with them, so I could plan thing with them you see. And I've had a really nice time in my life. I enjoyed my children. I don't brag about them, but I enjoyed them and I still enjoy them. Two of them dead now. But I still enjoyed them. Two of my sons dead. I had four girls and eight boys.	31:27
Michele Mitchell	Four girls?	31:57
Mary Hazel Johnson	Four girls and eight boys. That's 12 head of church. And I really enjoyed my church. Now I still enjoy them. Lord, sometimes my great-grandchildren come home. They cut up so bad. They're two baddest little children in the winter. I say they bad, but thank God it ain't no worries because they still listen at me.	31:58
Michele Mitchell	So they still respect.	32:29
Mary Hazel Johnson	Whatever I tell them, "All right mama. Okay mama. Okay, all right." But they still don't do all I tell them to do. But they listen. If they go behind my back, whatever they say behind my back, I don't worry. I don't know what they say behind my back. But as long as they front of my face, they respect me. And I'm still mama, from the oldest to the youngest, call me mama.	32:31
Michele Mitchell	They all do?	32:55
Mary Hazel Johnson	They call me mama. All of them call me mama.	32:56
Michele Mitchell	That is beautiful.	33:00
Mary Hazel Johnson	All of them call me mama. And I'm so glad to have to talk with you. I'm so glad.	33:02
Michele Mitchell	I'm just looking at your face in terms of your children and just looks so, you look so pleased.	33:14
Mary Hazel Johnson	I am pleased. I'm pleased the way I raised them, the way I raised them, that I never was a mother that run and never took care of my children because I had to take care of them when I was by myself. I had to take care of them.	33:23
Michele Mitchell	You did too?	33:41
Mary Hazel Johnson	Yes, I did the best I could with the help of the good Lord. I made it through. The help of the good Lord, I made it through.	33:42
Michele Mitchell	Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Do you belong to this church?	33:53
Mary Hazel Johnson	No. I belong to First Mount Calvary on 4th between Claiborne and Willow.	33:58
Michele Mitchell	First Mount Calvary?	34:06
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh.	34:07
Michele Mitchell	Is that Catholic?	34:08
Mary Hazel Johnson	Baptist.	34:08
Michele Mitchell	You're Baptist. You've been Baptist all your life.	34:12
Mary Hazel Johnson	I was Baptist raised and I'm Baptist born. I'm going to be Baptist till the day I'm gone. Lord, I'm just Baptist. Oh Jesus.	34:16
Michele Mitchell	And so how long have you been going to First Mount Cavalry?	34:25
Mary Hazel Johnson	Since the first move into that church, now we've been years and years and years ago.	34:30
Michele Mitchell	Yeah?	34:35
Mary Hazel Johnson	When my son, he about Jerry, Harry. I mean Harry, he was about five years old and he about 40 some old. I been going there a long time. A long time.	34:36
Michele Mitchell	Yes.	35:01
Mary Hazel Johnson	Not a long time going yet. Oh Lord.	35:02
Michele Mitchell	You must have seen the, a lot of changes in the church.	35:11
Mary Hazel Johnson	Uh-huh.	35:14
Michele Mitchell	I mean, has it saved the same size?	35:15
Mary Hazel Johnson	Oh, it always was the same. Is it just the back had little add on to it, but it's been the front with the same thing. Yes, indeed.	35:17
Michele Mitchell	Did you go to church by yourself or did you take the babies too?	35:30
Mary Hazel Johnson	When I went to church?	35:33
Michele Mitchell	Uh-huh.	35:34
Mary Hazel Johnson	When I went to church, everybody went.	35:34
Michele Mitchell	Yes?	35:37
Mary Hazel Johnson	Everybody went to church when I went, and I made it every Sunday. Not missing a Sunday.	35:38
Michele Mitchell	Really?	35:43
Mary Hazel Johnson	Hot or cold.	35:43
Michele Mitchell	Really?	35:46
Mary Hazel Johnson	We went to church and we had a good time. If they didn't have a good time, I had a good time. Lord, we had a wonderful time. And we still have a good time in church. Lord, our pastor sick now, but we still have a good time because they have got other pastors that belong to our church, he still carrying the church on. And Lord, we have a wonderful time.	35:46
Michele Mitchell	That's just a nice day of fellowship, be in there.	36:18
Mary Hazel Johnson	I don't have a, since I've been to I can't talk like I want to. I don't have too much to say to other people because I may say the wrong thing at the wrong time because— It's just that way. That I can't speak like I want to. And I can't say the things I sometime I want to say, but I can't say because my mind function like it used to.	36:26
Michele Mitchell	You've talked with me. This has been beautiful.	36:55
Mary Hazel Johnson	Thank you.	36:55
Michele Mitchell	It really has ma'am. It's been beautiful talking to you.	37:00
Mary Hazel Johnson	Okay, thank you. I didn't think I could say that much.	37:05
Michele Mitchell	No.	37:12
Mary Hazel Johnson	You never know. You never know what the Lord puts on your mind.	37:13
Michele Mitchell	This is true.	37:17
Mary Hazel Johnson	You never know.	37:17
Michele Mitchell	It's true. Thank you.	37:21

Item Info

Title:

Mary Johnson interview recording, 1994 June 27

Date:

June 27, 1994

Creator:

Johnson, Mary Hazel

Contributor:

Mitchell, Michele

Description:

Name: Mary Hazel Johnson; Date of birth: 1914-07-02; Place of birth: New Orleans, LA; Occupation(s): domestic; Residence: New Orleans, LA
Informant ID: 543; Interviewed by: Michelle Mitchell.

Occupation:

Domestic worker

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-1219
f669c8ed-ff88-40c6-b820-04cd6b8e06e0
behindtheveil
cbab8b1b-32e7-47c6-aee6-6a3eebdbf018
ark:/87924/r4pc35j5v
cbab8b1b-32e7-47c6-aee6-6a3eebdbf018

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4pc35j5v

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Mary Johnson interview recording, 1994 June 27

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1. Mary Johnson administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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