Aaron McCrae interview recording, 1993 July 15
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| Chris Stewart | On the microphone. | 0:01 |
| Aaron McCrae | My name is Reverend Aaron A. McCrae, Sr. | 0:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Wonderful. Reverend McCrae, have you always lived here in Wilmington? | 0:15 |
| Aaron McCrae | I was born a half block up the street. I hadn't always lived here, but I was born here. | 0:15 |
| Chris Stewart | Were your parents from Wilmington as well? | 0:25 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, my father was from South Carolina and my mother was from Duplin County. | 0:28 |
| Chris Stewart | When did they move? Do you know? | 0:36 |
| Aaron McCrae | It was in the early or the late 1900s because I was born in 1920 and they had lived here several years prior to that. | 0:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you settle in this area? Were you born right in this area? | 1:06 |
| Aaron McCrae | I was born in a house, the first two-story house on Manly Avenue, right around the corner there, but we did not live here. About two months after I was born, we moved to Goldsboro, North Carolina. | 1:14 |
| Chris Stewart | How long were you in Goldsboro? | 1:37 |
| Aaron McCrae | I don't remember the number of years. Oh, four or five years, I suppose. | 1:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you recall anything about your house or your neighborhood? | 1:57 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes, I have been back there and passed the house. It was a white frame house. They have brick veneered it now, and my father pastored the Antioch Baptist Church in Goldsboro. | 1:57 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember any of the neighbors that lived around you? Was the house right next to the church? | 2:28 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, the house was quite a ways from the church. There were the Spencers, there was the Fields. There was the Simmons. I can remember those three families. There was a lady there who was a very close friend of my father and mother, Mrs. Charity Powell, and there was the Underwoods. Those are about all I can remember now, the names that I remember from way back there. | 2:34 |
| Chris Stewart | How did your parents come to know Mrs. Charity Powell, and why was she such a close special friend? | 3:32 |
| Aaron McCrae | I don't know. Other than that, she was a member of Antioch and my father pastored there for several years. They became very close. In fact, she was something of a godmother to me when I was a youngster. | 3:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you move from that house in Goldsboro to another house in Goldsboro? | 4:08 |
| Aaron McCrae | No. When we left that house, we moved to Enfield, North Carolina. Is that right? | 4:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 4:25 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, my father pastored a Baptist church in Enfield. Ministers in the Baptist church don't last very long sometimes. Sometimes they stay at a church three or four years and they have a problem and the minister leaves and seeks employment elsewhere. I don't know why my father left Antioch, but he left there and went to Enfield. And we were burned out in Enfield, we lost our home and we moved to Battleboro. Have you been there? Well, he preached in Battleboro for a while and we lived with a lady. I can't remember her name, but we left there and came back to Wilmington. | 4:28 |
| Chris Stewart | How old were you when you came back to Wilmington? | 5:59 |
| Aaron McCrae | I don't remember my age. It must have been five. Not five, it must have been six or seven, because I started school here in the second grade. | 6:04 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember what it was like to move so often at such a young age, do you recall? | 6:30 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, not really. I can remember making some friends, but not enough to really have an effect on my life at that early stage. | 6:32 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you have brothers or sisters? | 6:55 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes, I had three brothers and a sister. | 6:59 |
| Chris Stewart | So at least you had your siblings? | 7:06 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yeah. Uh-huh. | 7:07 |
| Chris Stewart | What were the circumstances under which the fire occurred in? | 7:09 |
| Aaron McCrae | We don't know. It is suggested that the house was set a fire, that it was arson, but we were all gone. Mom and dad were out of town, and the children were staying overnight with friends. And while we were gone, the house was burned to the ground. | 7:13 |
| Chris Stewart | What church was your father pastor in? | 7:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | I don't even remember the name of the church. | 7:53 |
| Chris Stewart | You weren't there very long? | 7:57 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, not very long. | 7:58 |
| Chris Stewart | When we were really based right outside of Enfield when we were there. | 8:02 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, is that right? | 8:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. We interviewed quite a few people in Enfield while we were there. | 8:12 |
| Aaron McCrae | That's good. | 8:15 |
| Chris Stewart | So you're unsure as to the circumstances, but there is— | 8:19 |
| Aaron McCrae | There were rumors that it was set a fire. | 8:26 |
| Chris Stewart | How long were you there before this happened? | 8:30 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, a few years. Not too many. | 8:36 |
| Chris Stewart | Was your father—How can I ask this question? Was he a threat to White people in— | 8:43 |
| Aaron McCrae | No—he wasn't a threat. My father wasn't an integrationist. He was a Baptist preacher. I can remember my father saying to me, I'll tell you a little incident that happened here. We went fishing one day, a little place called Seagate here in Wilmington, and a little White boy came along in a boat. He said to me, "Hey." I said, "Hi, how are you?" He said, "Do you want to ride in my boat?" I said, "Yes, I'd love to." He pulled into the bank and I got in the boat and down the waterway we had business. We had gotten quite a ways from where my parents were and I heard my father calling. | 9:00 |
| Aaron McCrae | I said to the little White boy, "Look, I've got to go back now. My father's calling me." He said to me, "Oh, I can't go back." So he pulled over to the shoreline and I got out and ran through the marsh, and the marsh was covered with oyster shells and my feet were cut pretty badly. My father was very angry and he said to me, "That boy will follow a White man anywhere." It wasn't that I would follow a White man anywhere, I have something that I was born with, a desire to see all Americans live together as brothers and sisters, irregardless of the color of their skin or where they came from. | 10:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | I have worked for it in my humble capacity and as long as I live. When I pastor the church, I initiated programs that would bring Blacks and Whites together in an area where they had lynched a Black man. But my father was not an integrationist, he simply was a Baptist preacher. Now, when he lived here in Wilmington, he met with the Interracial Ministerial Board, but you'll find Black and White ministers since the thirties have met together, but they will not teach their people that that kind of togetherness is worthwhile and what God requires of all people. At any rate, he preached in Enfield and Battleboro prior to coming back to Wilmington. | 11:40 |
| Chris Stewart | What church did he come and minister in? | 13:32 |
| Aaron McCrae | In Wilmington? My father was a country preacher. He wasn't a city preacher. He preached at several churches around here. It seems as if, in the Baptist church, a minister has to grow. He starts off in a small church and gradually he works his way up. I have preached at several churches that my father pastored. The people asked me to come because I was my father's son. And churches that I didn't even know he pastored, but he did pastor for a long period of time. The Canetuck Baptist Church in Currie. | 13:34 |
| Chris Stewart | What was the name? | 14:42 |
| Aaron McCrae | C-A-N-E-T-U-C-K. The Mount Pisgah Baptist Church in Burgaw. That's the church that I pastored for eight years. And the Fairmont, the First Baptist Church, Fairmont. I think he was there around 27 years. | 14:43 |
| Chris Stewart | And where did your family live? | 15:18 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, when we came to Wilmington, we owned this house up the street here, but people tend to live according to dreams, I guess. My father was encouraged to buy another house in a neighborhood where the people were somewhat well to do. So we lived on Seventh and Red Cross, but country preachers didn't make any money. I can remember my father having come home with the back of his car loaded with food and not enough money to make the house payment. So we eventually lost the house in the city and had to move back to the country in this house up the street there. | 15:22 |
| Chris Stewart | So this area was considered the country? | 16:46 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, yes. We've only been in the city limits maybe 10, 12, or 15 years, something like that. | 16:50 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. So is this the house that you remember growing up as a child? | 17:05 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, all of my childhood was spent in that house except for the few years that we lived in the city. I remember more from this house up the street than I do any other point in life. | 17:13 |
| Chris Stewart | What's the address of that house? I'd actually like to go by and take a look. | 17:44 |
| Aaron McCrae | I don't know the address, but I can tell you how to get there. When you go here to the corner, you turn left. It's the second two-story house on the street. | 17:52 |
| Chris Stewart | On the right or the left? | 18:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | On the right. | 18:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. This may sound like a redundant question, but what do you remember about the house growing up, about your house when you were growing up? | 18:22 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, I don't recall a great deal. I was born in the house. The room that serves as the dining room was a bedroom, and my mother tells me that that's the room I was born in. We were farmers. We owned some property over here, and my father raised tobacco and corn and cotton and beans, and I spent my childhood working on the farm. | 18:30 |
| Chris Stewart | How many acres do you know, about? | 19:24 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, we had only four acres of our own, but we rented land. | 19:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Who did you rent from? Do you know? | 19:42 |
| Aaron McCrae | There was a gentleman called Riggs. There are about six acres over next to the school that we used to rent to raise tobacco on and sometimes corn. | 19:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Did your father have all of his own equipment for— | 20:04 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh yeah. | 20:10 |
| Chris Stewart | So he owned plows and— | 20:11 |
| Aaron McCrae | He had tenant farmers working with him. | 20:14 |
| Chris Stewart | So he rented and then he had tenants. | 20:19 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yeah, that worked on the farm. | 20:24 |
| Chris Stewart | We talked quite a bit about your father. What do you remember about your mother? | 20:29 |
| Aaron McCrae | My mother was a housewife. She had a limited schooling. She was a good mother and practically reared us by herself because my dad was gone a great deal of the time. He ran revivals in New York and places like that, so he was gone and mom had the responsibility of caring for all of the children. | 20:34 |
| Chris Stewart | Did she also take responsibility for supervising the farm and the farming? | 21:22 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, we all worked together on the farm. He was here during the summer months when we housed the crop. | 21:29 |
| Chris Stewart | But then when he left, it was in the late fall or the winter? | 21:39 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes. Uh-huh. | 21:44 |
| Chris Stewart | And you said would he usually travel north for the revivals or would he— | 21:49 |
| Aaron McCrae | I don't recall his going south. I remember because when dad went to New York, he would always come home and reward us with large boxes of clothing. He was a strong man and head of the home. He did all of the grocery buying and all of that sort of stuff. My mother was just quietly in the home. | 21:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Speaking of grocery buying, where would your family do their marketing or their shopping? | 22:40 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, there were two stores in East Wilmington. There was the Dixon Store. There were three stores. The Dixon Store. The Powell Store, and there was another store, I can't remember the name of it, and we shopped there. | 22:48 |
| Chris Stewart | Were these Black-owned businesses? | 23:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, they were White-owned businesses. There were no Black-owned businesses. My father did build a shop for my mother, and she sold bread and cookies and candies and canned goods and things of that sort in the community. | 23:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you recall any of your neighbors around when you were growing up? Was there anybody who spent more time with you or than any other person in that area that you looked up to? | 23:50 |
| Aaron McCrae | My father had a very close friend. Reverend AJ Bonnet moved from Virginia to East Wilmington. And he and his family, according to my mother's statement, lived in our home until my father and Reverend Bonnet and men could build their home, and that's the first two-story house that you'll come to. They lived next door to each other, and they were as two peas in a pod. They were both preachers and they loved one another very dearly. They used to sing a lot and they sang together, but they were very close friends. They had a son and a daughter, and we were very close. We were very close. | 24:09 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you talk a little bit about what it was like to be a preacher's son? Were there any kind of special considerations or things that you— | 25:31 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes, there were. My father was recognized as being one of the leading ministers in this area. We have an association of churches, and in spite of his humble beginning, he had less than a sixth grade education, but he became moderator of that association. We traveled with him from time to time, and the little girls sort of worshiped us. We were kind of special. I can remember going to conventions and they would bring my food. At that time, we would have tables outside of the church. There were no dining rooms, and the little girls would bring my dinner to the car and things like that. We were considered somewhat special and received some special treatment. | 25:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Who would discipline the children in your family? | 27:24 |
| Aaron McCrae | Most of the time, my mother. Occasionally, when dad was home, he would get on us. And I think I'd rather have him whip me any day than to have my mother whip me. | 27:28 |
| Chris Stewart | Were there other people in your neighborhood that you recall who would discipline children? | 27:46 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, not disciplined with a whipping. With words, yes. At that time, everybody was your mother and your father. They would tell you what you are doing wrong, and then they would tell your parents and you'd get a whipping as a result of that. So you were disciplined by several people on any one given incident. | 27:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Were there areas in your neighborhood, in the area that you lived in that were considered bad areas where you weren't supposed to go? | 28:44 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, yes. This community is divided into two areas, the area that my dad and his lodge founded and an area that a White man founded, a man named Fox. It was called Foxtown, and part of Foxtown out on what we call The Corner, was an area where the people who did a lot of drinking and carousing and fighting and things of that sort, and we were not supposed to go in those areas. | 28:53 |
| Chris Stewart | Could you define, geographically, define where the boundaries were of your neighborhood when you were growing up? | 29:54 |
| Aaron McCrae | The boundaries of Gideon Height begin with Maides Avenue. It includes Maides Avenue, McRae Street, and Mosley Street. | 30:05 |
| Chris Stewart | What about Foxtown? | 30:27 |
| Aaron McCrae | Foxtown included Evans Street, Clay Street, and Henry Street. | 30:31 |
| Chris Stewart | What would happen to young people who ventured into that bad part of town from their family? | 30:45 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, it was just that our parents didn't want us to go into those areas. As we grew older, we went into them. The young men congregated in those areas. That's all we had to do secular, and so we fought. I can remember having threatened to kill a young man at one time. When I was a boy growing up, I had a very hot temper, but nothing came of it, but these are the conditions that prevailed in the community at that time. | 30:56 |
| Chris Stewart | Where did you go to school? You said you started school here in the second grade? | 32:03 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes. I attended Peabody Elementary School. | 32:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Peabody over on— | 32:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | Sixth and Campbell. | 32:18 |
| Chris Stewart | I got a tour of— | 32:22 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, did you? | 32:26 |
| Chris Stewart | General historic sites in Wilmington and Peabody was, well, we were over at St. Stephen Church. | 32:29 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, I see. I preached there Sunday night before last. | 32:34 |
| Chris Stewart | You did? | 32:39 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yeah. | 32:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, we're going to be going to church there on this Sunday. | 32:42 |
| Aaron McCrae | I see. | 32:44 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember any of your teachers from Peabody? | 32:49 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, yes. A very dear and loving teacher, Ms. Edna Moore. She's in a nursing home now. She's over a hundred years of age. | 32:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Is she very ill? | 33:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | Not very ill, but not able to live alone. | 33:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Does she have a memory or— | 33:29 |
| Aaron McCrae | From time to time. She is somewhat senile, but I haven't seen her now in two, maybe three years. She owned some property in this area and I was trying to purchase the property from her. That's how we renewed acquaintances. But she and Mrs. Wolf and Mrs. Jackson and Mrs. Dwelling and Mrs. Telfair and Mrs. Rogers were all teachers in that school at that time. | 33:32 |
| Chris Stewart | At Peabody? | 34:29 |
| Aaron McCrae | Mm-hmm. | 34:29 |
| Chris Stewart | You speak very fondly of them. What was so special about these women? | 34:36 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, I speak fondly of all of the people who had a hand in shaping my life to be what it is today. We've come a long way in this community, and there are a lot of people who had a hand in shaping our lives. My class, my high school graduating class, the class of '38, had its 55th reunion on the week of the 4th of July, and we had some of our teachers present at that time. Mrs. Elizabeth Holmes Salters and Mrs. Annie P. White, and Mrs. Sarah Ashe were the three teachers there, but there were many others. | 34:42 |
| Chris Stewart | This was at Williston? | 36:17 |
| Aaron McCrae | Williston. | 36:19 |
| Chris Stewart | You were attending Williston when it burned? | 36:24 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, yes. My wife's class was the graduating class the year that it burned. | 36:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. Devastating. Do you recall what happened? | 36:34 |
| Aaron McCrae | All I know is that they had a fire drill and they marched us very orderly out of the building, and it was a real fire instead of a fire drill. No one was injured, but it burned the building to the ground. | 36:41 |
| Chris Stewart | What did Williston look like prior to the fire? | 37:07 |
| Aaron McCrae | I think the present Dudley resembles the old Williston building. It's been so long, I can't remember. | 37:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Was it a wood frame or was it a brick school? | 37:31 |
| Aaron McCrae | It was a brick school. | 37:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Prior to. It was built back as a brick school. | 37:36 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yeah. | 37:39 |
| Chris Stewart | What about extracurricular activities in school? What kinds of things did children or young people— | 37:44 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, we had football and basketball and the Choral Society. I sang with the choral group. | 37:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you have special performances for the communities? | 38:06 |
| Aaron McCrae | No. Well, starting at Peabody, the Glee Club at Peabody, I sang with the Glee Club at Peabody. We had a radio station here, WRAM, and one Saturday our glee club sang over the air. This was a first in those days. | 38:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? That must've been the early thirties. | 38:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | That was. | 38:54 |
| Chris Stewart | You graduated in '38 from Williston? | 38:57 |
| Aaron McCrae | Uh-huh. | 39:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Early thirties, late twenties. What kind of radio station was WRAM? Was it a religious station or was it— | 39:00 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, it was, as far as I can recall, it played popular music, an all-purpose station, more or less. | 39:11 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | This is what it looks like after the fire. There it is. We had our reunion. That's our class. This is Williston. This is the class of '36. Bet you can't find me. | 39:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. | 39:46 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | This is where we have— | 39:50 |
| Chris Stewart | I'm not going to be able. Show me, please. See, I was thinking right up in front. | 39:56 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | See, this is [indistinct 00:40:07] picture you right there, this is [indistinct 00:40:09]. | 40:05 |
| Chris Stewart | You're all wearing white. All the women are wearing beautiful white dresses. | 40:09 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Well see, our robes got burned and everything. | 40:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, wow, so you had to wear white? | 40:16 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | That's me. This is my best friend. She was the valedictorian of our class. | 40:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, this is at a reunion that you had? | 40:25 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Yeah. This is at our reunion, 50th reunion. We took a pictures of the— | 40:27 |
| Chris Stewart | So these are the old front steps? | 40:40 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | This is the old one. One of my classmates had a picture of the old one. She made pictures for all of us. That's it. This is how [indistinct 00:40:53] There's some after the fire. | 40:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. Oh, that's what—Oh. | 40:56 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | That's after. | 40:56 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, look at that. How sad. | 41:00 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | See, I only met Aaron when I was in high school. | 41:07 |
| Chris Stewart | I've seen, I went by Williston and took pictures of it. It's a beautiful school now. It's a beautiful school with the big letters up on top. Wonderful. Oh, activities. You were talking about extracurricular activities. | 41:14 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, we didn't do a lot of public singing from Williston as I recall. We sang for assembly and things like that. We had an exchange program under Mr. Weber with New Hanover High School. The schools were segregated at that time, but they asked us to come over and do a program for them. The difference being, they took us up into a classroom and we sang for just the choral group of New Hanover High. But when Williston invited them over, our principal had a full assembly and had them sing before the whole student body. There was a great deal of cat-calling after a while, but these were the first attempts at inter-school relationships back in those days. | 41:32 |
| Chris Stewart | How did teachers discipline students in high school? | 43:32 |
| Aaron McCrae | Usually they expelled us. In high school, I can't remember anybody paddling anybody, but I know I was suspended for two days by the principal. I don't even recall what I did. But our principal was a friend of my father's and he sent me home, but my mother paid him a visit, and when she got through talking with him, he told her to send me on back to school. I don't know what she said to him, but as far as punishment is concerned, now, they paddled down in the grades. But in the high school level, discipline was expulsion or suspension. | 43:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Did teachers play favorites? Did they have favorite students? | 45:05 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, yes. | 45:09 |
| Chris Stewart | Who were they, not necessarily names who were the favorite students, but how was that decided, do you think? | 45:15 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, this is a personal issue with the teacher. Teachers have looked with favor on certain students, students who had the ability to surpass other students. These were more pleasing to them than were some of the other students. I don't know, it's hard to put your finger on why they had favorites, but they did have favorites. At least, we felt that they did at any rate. | 45:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Was your father pastoring at the church in Fairmont when you were in high school, or was it after high school? | 46:04 |
| Aaron McCrae | Let me see. He was at Fairmont when I was in high school because he was still alive when I graduated. | 46:14 |
| Aaron McCrae | Our school required 15 units to graduate. From the eighth grade on I was in the accelerated class up until the ninth grade I failed second year algebra. Couldn't get it. I kept taking the same courses with my class, but I was a unit shy. And so when I graduated, I graduated with only 15, units and the other students in my class graduated with 16 and 17 units. But my father, the night of graduation, he was a very proud man. And East Wilmington, this community out here, offered a $50 scholarship to the student with the highest grade. | 0:06 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, there was another young man from out here in the class and, he won the $50 scholarship. My father was so hurt. He was the moderator of the association, and he and the principal were at friendly competition all the time. So he stood up and he says, "I'd like to announce that Aaron McCrae has won a $50 scholarship from the Middle District Baptist Association." And the principal said, "I'm sorry Reverend, but your scholarship will have to be made subjected to all of the student and you wouldn't recognize that scholarship." But I got through, and I went on off to college. | 1:38 |
| Aaron McCrae | I wasn't ready for college. There are some students that enter college who have no business there. I went to Hampton Institute back in '38, September of '38 and met some young men from Eastern Shore Maryland and they taught me how to play pinochle. And every night we played pinochle. We hung a blanket up at the transient, so that the light from the room wouldn't go out in the hall. And the building monitor couldn't know that we were up. And we played pinochle, and my grades did this, and I had no money. I was taking a work year. And when I tried to enroll for the next year, my grades were so low and I couldn't get any financial help and I had to drop out of school. | 2:54 |
| Aaron McCrae | But now you want to know about conditions in the South. Hampton Institute was an example of what some Negro schools were like during those days. I was a member of the student council my freshman year. We had a White president at Hampton Institute. Some of the teachers were White and some of the teachers were Black. They had teachers around there in wheelchairs, teachers with less than a bachelor's degree. We had a very militant president. His name was Hale Thompson. Hale challenged the administrative board on something, and they expelled him from school. As a result, the student body went on strike. | 4:27 |
| Chris Stewart | This is in '38, '39? | 6:03 |
| Aaron McCrae | '38, '39. They struck for a while. The White president—Well there was a White teacher there. I think this is what caused the trouble. A White lady teacher accused a Black teacher who had a master's degree of saying something to her out of line, and they either fired that teacher or censored them, I can't remember which. And we went on strike as a result of it. Well, as a result of that, the executive board fired President Howell, and hired Malcolm McLean from Michigan State. I think he was the dean of the College of Michigan State. And he was a busy man, he was a naval reservist and he stayed gone a lot. But he hired a Black man as dean of the college. His name was R. O'Hara Lanier. | 6:10 |
| Chris Stewart | What was his name? | 8:02 |
| Aaron McCrae | R. O'Hara Lanier. And Dean Lanier made the University at Hampton Institute or the University of Hampton, Virginia, the school that it is today. Because he went through that faculty with a fine tooth comb. He got rid of all of those people with no degrees and began to hire people who had degrees and who were capable of making the school the kind of school that it should be. So this is what we went through back during those days. | 8:05 |
| Chris Stewart | How long were you on strike? | 8:55 |
| Aaron McCrae | I don't even remember. It was quite a time. We would sit in Ogden Hall for chapel. And when a faculty leader of chapel services would come before the student body to lead chapel, they had heater units under the seats. And if you put your foot under them, you could lift them up and rattle them. And the students would rattle those heat ducts and they would sit, they wouldn't stand to sing and things of that sort. But it was very effective. | 8:58 |
| Chris Stewart | So was Professor Lanier, was he hired during that year that you were at Hampton? | 10:03 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, yes. | 10:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. So major changes took place. | 10:10 |
| Aaron McCrae | Major changes took place. | 10:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. I'd like to shift just a little bit to ask a couple more really general questions. At what point in your life, Reverend, do you feel like people began treating you like an adult? Like you'd become an adult? | 10:13 |
| Aaron McCrae | That would be hard to say. Well, in the south, all Black men are boys. Our White brothers haven't seen fit or didn't see fit at that time to accept us as equals. And so it's hard to determine exactly when I was accepted as an adult, we have fought thought you're White—My wife and I had a discussion this morning. | 10:47 |
| Aaron McCrae | In the segregated south, the Black woman and the White man had been the only free people in the south. The White man would push the Black woman while he kept his feet on the Black man. The White woman, even though she might like the Black man, if she made friends with him, it was to take him back to subservience to the White man. She was loyal to the White man. So the Black man had to stand alone and be counted as a second rate citizen. I thank God that America is learning democracy now. | 11:52 |
| Aaron McCrae | And yesterday, I passed down the street back of New Hanover High School, and I saw a Black young man and a young White lady walking down the street together. And I thought, "We have come a long way." I can remember back during World War II that a Black soldier, who had married a German girl, took her into South Carolina and the sheriff of the county beat him unmercifully. They beat his eyes out, because he was married to a White woman. So America is growing and there was a time when you wouldn't be fitting in my home asking me questions about what did transpire back there. | 13:11 |
| Chris Stewart | And in fact, in some places I still wouldn't see. Some places [indistinct 00:14:33]. | 14:27 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | [indistinct 00:14:33] when you say this, I'm very sorry. My life was very different to Aaron's. My mother died when I was eight, so my grandmother raised me. I would stay with my grandmother and my grandmother was a child of slaves. My grandmother, she wasn't very educated, but she had good common sense. And she said the people who owned them were nice people who treated them very nice. They weren't supposed to work and all that, only her mother. They were kids there playing. So my grandmother raised me, because mother died when I was eight. And so she really taught me a whole lot. She taught me that, I mean as for White, I have never been—I've always felt I was just as good because when my grandmother—The big mama took me to work, wherever she worked, she took me. If I was not accepted, she wouldn't work. | 14:33 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | And I went with her where we should work in the White people's houses. And I felt at ease. I pray with the White kids and all of that. And I mean, I was never a slave kid or nothing like that. But I never forget I was a little kid, there's a place right here. Now my grandmother, we live at several miles down, we called it now. And we came up here and it's a place called Del Guard. And that's where the poor classes of people lived at the time. And I never will forget, the new children would come to the door to play and the kids' parents that big mama worked for would not let them open the door. And I used to just wonder why. I used to ask my grandmother why. And she says, well—She always called me Best. She said, "Well, Best you'll understand." | 15:47 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | She said, "But always remember this. Don't ever let anybody be any nicer to you than you are to them." She says, "And remember, you are just as good as anybody else." She said, "Because you have to love yourself. You have to respect yourself in order to get respect from other people." And I grew up with that. So I have never had no problem with that, because now I could understand when I was down south just like Aaron, but I never was treated like that because my grandmother instilled in me that I was just as good and I felt that good. So Aaron went on to school. My father died and I couldn't go. But I went in nurse training. And so I passed nurse's—We were still married. We were married about a year before when I went in nurse training. And when he was in Arizona on the base, I was the first Black nurse to work on that base. | 16:48 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | And I did not have any problems because I knew my job description and I took care of it. And I always remember, "Don't ever let anybody be any nicer to you than you are to them." And if you can't get along with a person, that's it. That's gone. Got to leave them alone. And I have never had the problem. And I'm very sorry that Aaron had all the problems. But all these problems that he's had I never had it. Because big mama taught me that. And I grew up thinking it, and I still think that. I worked on the base hospital, but only the Black nurse, I never had, for one instance, [indistinct 00:18:37] that's what it was called. She was older than I was and I was young and I guess she resent having to take orders from a young person, especially being Black and then being young. So I looked over, see all this stuff did not worry me. I got along beautiful. And Aaron can tell you that, I got along. | 17:53 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, she got along very well. | 18:56 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I got along beautifully. I was with the colonel and the Mets and all these, because I always remember, "Never let nobody be nice to you and you are to them. And if a person don't give you the courtesy, that's do you don't go to pieces." | 18:58 |
| Chris Stewart | I talked to a woman yesterday who said she lives out—I don't know. Maybe I wish I was more familiar with the areas, but over by Wrightsville Beach area. But there used to be a whole Black community out there. | 19:19 |
| Aaron McCrae | Wrightsville Sound. | 19:36 |
| Chris Stewart | Wrightsville Sound. This is one of the only families I think that are still living— Black families that are still living there. Lola Ellerby, who's the secretary over at St. Stephen's? It's her family. | 19:36 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, I see. | 19:48 |
| Chris Stewart | And her mother was telling me very similar kind of things. | 19:50 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Yeah, I never had it, but I never felt inferior. | 19:53 |
| Chris Stewart | What did she say? She said, "I'll invite anybody into my house. If they treat me with respect, I'll treat them with respect." | 19:58 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | In order to get respect, you have to respect. | 20:07 |
| Chris Stewart | She had a wonderful saying though. She said, "But if you don't treat me with respect, there are seven doors in this house and you can pick any one of them to leave." | 20:09 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | That's right. What I think about integration is this. I like to be able to go anywhere, do whatever if I choose to do it. But I don't want nobody telling me, you have to do this, you have to do that. I think I'm intelligent enough to make my decision. Now, if I want to, all right. And if I don't want to, well nobody can make me. And I can sit down with White people and I feel comfortable. Because, I used to work with the nurses in there, but I always knew my job description and I knew what I was supposed to do. And frankly, I mean, I understand this. God has blessed me to know it. And I have been in some close spots, and I used to be—I always was a supervisor, head nurse or something, and I really honest, I didn't have a lot of problems. | 20:17 |
| Chris Stewart | You sound like somebody who we might want to sit down and interview. | 21:31 |
| Aaron McCrae | She has quite a life. | 21:39 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I never had a lot of problems with it. Now old lady in New Hanover, the hospital there—I retired in '82. | 21:39 |
| Chris Stewart | You did? | 21:39 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | And I was supervisor of the outpatient clinic. And I was the Black nurse on the nurse staff, but some of the other nurses and the nurses' aid, they were polite. But I was always in charge. I was [indistinct 00:22:04]. But it has not worrying me. I had a problem with a colonel from the Air Force. He was teaching the doctors, and he was wearing masks. So he had a little small remarks. But I mean, I'm not thin-skinned. I know how to stand up for my—And so I told him, he says, "So I understand you worked for the Air Force." I said, "Yes. My husband was an airman and I worked at the base hospital." And I said, "And I worked for a real colonel." I said, because he was real nice. I want him to know that being a colonel did not face me. Because see, I was not an enlisted man. Now know enlisted men had to, but see I was not enlisted and I had worked for a colonel. Colonel Hably was just as nice a man as you want to see. So I'm sorry, but I never had any problems. | 21:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, like I was saying, I mean it really does sound like if you want to, we would love to come and talk to you and sit down and talk about— | 23:14 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I never had that problem. Because my grandma, she was not a very high. She couldn't read and write her name, but she got money. | 23:27 |
| Chris Stewart | But see, that's also the kinds of experiences that are really important to our collection as well. Because although we hear and we've heard a wide range of memories, those people who have very difficult memories— | 23:32 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | She taught me so many basic things in life. It's a basic thing. And she always says, "Be thankful for what you have, but always strive to do better." | 23:50 |
| Chris Stewart | I mean, like I said, we've talked to people who do have difficult memories as well as [indistinct 00:24:08] the kinds of things you've been saying. | 24:03 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I never had a lot of problems. If they don't want to, I don't feel bad all broke up about it. It was important though for us. [indistinct 00:24:23] somebody else. The world is big, and you can always find somebody that you can commit. If you can't get on this one, there's always somebody over there. Why just break up all over about that? So I never had that problem and [indistinct 00:24:41]. And my children, I taught them that, because my baby Jackie. Jackie is a very friendly child. She's a lot like her daddy. Very friendly. When we were on the base, where we moved, everybody knew Jackie. We'd go places. Hey Jackie, Hey Jackie. And I never forget because when we were out there in Kansas, they were all White kids. She was the only Black kid out there. And they got along beautifully. | 24:10 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | And my son had a little run in with one of his fellows, but Aaron and the little boy's daddy got together, they apologized, shook hands. And from that time on, they got along were, all White. They were real buddies. And we left them out there. They were little leaguers and they were at 4-H Club together. But Jackie, we came back here and we were down to the private diner store. She had a little windmill and the kid was looking at her, so she said, "You want to hold it?" And so she reached out to give the little kid, that little kid's mother snatched her so hard, and the little kid just cried. And so it frightened Jackie, and Jackie said, "Mommy." She said, "I didn't do anything to her." She said," I didn't do anything." She said, "And she cried. Honestly, I didn't do anything to her." | 25:13 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | And I said, "Well Jackie, I knew you didn't—" I said, "You were only trying to help her." I said, "But her mother maybe didn't want her to play with you." She said, "Well, why?" And I had the hardest time trying to convince Jackie why. But she kept asking me, "Well, mama, why? Mommy, why? I didn't do anything?" I said, "I know you didn't." And she was all upset about it. And she was just a little kid. Just in first grade, I think she was. And that upset her so bad. But I had taught her, all of my kids I've taught them to respect themselves. You have to like yourself in order for somebody to like you. And I've taught them that. And so I've had this problem, but I mean, it's no big deal to me, to tell you the truth. | 26:07 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | And I've got along very well. God, has blessed me. He's blessed me very well. And when I left, coming back, and knew we left him out there. See, I was pregnant then with my third child, and they tried to get me to stay out in Arizona and then after I could have my maternity leave and all. But, they don't said no, but he's gone. I'll be out there by myself. Well, I really, I am very thankful. God has really blessed me all through this career. And I guess just the way my grandmother taught me and I did that, well when she went, I went with her. | 26:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, maybe when we're done here, I can try to arrange a time to sit and talk to you about growing up. | 27:47 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I would do that alone. | 27:52 |
| Aaron McCrae | We've had wonderful experiences in our lives. I made a decision with my wife long time ago that I was going to make a career of the armed forces, and I was going to leave my family at home. And I was going to travel with the services and retire. And then we were going to California to live. I wanted to get out of the south. But God didn't see fit for that to be realized. We lived in Kansas. | 28:15 |
| Chris Stewart | In the armed force when you were in there? | 29:06 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, I was out. I had been discharged. We were the only Black family that had ever lived in that community. It was a Swedish community and most of the people accepted us. You see the picture on the wall there in the dining room. They gave that picture to my wife and I supposed to the family, when we were leaving Marquette, Kansas. The pastor of that church said to us, we had worshiped in a Westernian Methodist church and we were Baptists, but there was a lady who lived next door. I sort of accepted her as our mother in Kansas. Her name was Ethel Ferguson. Ethel was as fine a woman as you could expect to find anywhere. | 29:10 |
| Chris Stewart | What time period are we talking about right now? | 30:58 |
| Aaron McCrae | 1958 and '59. We spent the better part of two years there. And my wife taught Sunday school in the church. I sang with the choir and did solo work in the community. And just as we were getting ready to leave, the mayor stopped me one day and offered me a job as city maintenance man. Turning on lights and reading the gas meters and the light meters and things of that thought. But I told him we were committed to come back home. | 31:01 |
| Aaron McCrae | We had already made arrangements to move back here. So we came on back to Wilmington. But to show you the changes in the South, when we came home from Kansas, I was used to our children going to an integrated school. The state of North Carolina had a law on its books called the Pupil Assignment Law. They were trying to get away from integration of the schools. And so I took that law, got the form, discussed it with my wife, and we applied for the transfer of our children from a Black school to a previous all White school. | 32:08 |
| Chris Stewart | What school were your children? | 33:34 |
| Aaron McCrae | They were in Blount, right out here at East Wilmington. | 33:36 |
| Chris Stewart | B-L-O-U-N-T? | 33:40 |
| Aaron McCrae | N Yes. | 33:41 |
| Chris Stewart | And you transferred them there? | 33:43 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Junior was in sixth grade. But Jackie and Denise Law, they were in Blount school. But see, Junior was transferred over where Louis was. We used to call it— | 33:54 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, Dudley. | 34:10 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Dudley. | 34:10 |
| Aaron McCrae | Dudley. | 34:10 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Dudley. That's right. Junior was going Dudley School. | 34:13 |
| Chris Stewart | And you had them— | 34:14 |
| Aaron McCrae | At any rate, we applied for the transfer. | 34:18 |
| Chris Stewart | This was in about '59? | 34:27 |
| Aaron McCrae | This was '67. I had trouble from the Black community and the White community. The Black leaders told me, "We have never had a request to go to a White school before." And they tried to block and hamper my progress. I sat here at night with an old typewriter and tried to type up the application form, and I caught the very devil trying to type those forms. I finally did what I thought was an acceptable effort with them. And I took them into the superintendent of schools. Well, the assistant superintendent, I talked to him, and he looked at my form and said, here's a mistake. You wouldn't want to present this form to the superintendent like this. | 34:27 |
| Aaron McCrae | So I got out and went to a Black attorney's office and got his secretary, to retype the forms. I took them back into the office. They denied the requests. We had rights of appeal. So I appealed it to the Board of Education as a result of the appeal. And after my wife and I had discussed the issue before the Board of Education, they rule that our son would be accepted, but that our daughters would not be accepted. | 36:02 |
| Aaron McCrae | I did not have money to pursue it any farther. So we accepted that decision. But now, here is the funny thing about the south. All over Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia and South Carolina, the FBI was having to secret or secretly take those integrated children into the schools. My wife and I took our son, walked out to the corner, caught the city bus, rode to the school, got out and walked to the campus. The principal accepted or received us on the campus. We stood there and talked for a minute or two and then he left. | 37:16 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Yeah, because he asked us, did we want him to take Aaron Junior in the school? And I told him, "No, Aaron Junior was a student." Let him go stay out like you do the other children. And he said, "Okay." And so Aaron Junior said— I told him goodbye. He said, "Goodbye, mom." And so Junior had a little pencil, I think a little package of pencils or something. | 38:33 |
| Aaron McCrae | He had a pencil box. | 39:02 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Box. So he walked there and there was two or three little boys came up. And so they said, "Let me see." So Junior, let them see the little pencil box. They left all together. All the little children. The little boys there. They left with Aaron, and went on with the boys. And so we talked to the principal. Then we came back to catch the bus. And so everybody was starring around, I imagine, wondering what's going to happen. We didn't have any police to escort us. And so one guy said, "Well now it's all over. It's all over here." So he got kind of [indistinct 00:39:44]. "See, it's all over now." And so Aaron Jr. He stayed, the little boys stayed with him most of the days, because they were all about the same grade. And when he went in, he went along with them and he got along nicely there. And I think it had to be the tongue of the teachers. The teachers had to be in it too. It wasn't Aaron Junior by himself, the teachers are nice. There was one teacher. What was her name? | 39:03 |
| Aaron McCrae | Long. | 40:28 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | She was Junior's. | 40:28 |
| Aaron McCrae | Ms. Long and Mrs—What was the man's name? Halterman. | 40:28 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Halterman. | 40:28 |
| Chris Stewart | The two teachers at which school now? | 40:30 |
| Aaron McCrae | At Chestnut Street School. Nice one. It's Annie Snipes School now. | 40:32 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Junior, he went there. And so, we would go to a PTA meeting. I always tried to go. And I would talk with the teachers and some of them were very nice, very nice. And some of them were not so nice. So I understand that. I mean, that happens in anything. But Ms. Clara Lamb, Aaron Junior, well, she called Aaron. She said, "Aaron was a good student, very good." She said, "But he deceits." She said, He'd get up and get all of his lessons and get everything. Then he'd sit up doing—"Make fun and had all the children laughing. And she said. | 40:39 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | So one day she kept him after school and so, I think they were late coming home, but she bought him all the way home. And I asked her, I said, "Ms. Lamb, why did you do it?" She says, "Well—" She said, "I thought about it." She said, "I kept him after school. So everybody was going." She said, "You'd be surprised how some of the adults—" She said, "And I would feel very bad." She said, or some of the adults or something would happened to Aaron on this way home. She said, "I feel real bad." I told her, I said, "Well now you should treat him just like you do the rest of them." I said, "He acts like in your class and you had to punish him." I said, "He should have walked him to catch the bush." She said, "No, I couldn't do that." | 41:23 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | So I appreciated that. But I did not want my son to be treated any different. I want him to be accepted and go on free like the rest of them. But she never would. And I already appreciate her. Whenever she come to the hospital, because she had to come in, she had students in the hospital that she had to come to bring an assignment when they were sick. And I'd always seen Ms. Lamb. And she'd always asked about Aaron, even though after he had been graduated from UNCW always asked about him, and she said, he was such a little cute little fellow when she came in there. And so I would always appreciate that. I mean, I wanted her to tweak Aaron, let him be normal. I told her no more and no less. And so Aaron got along reasonably well till date. | 42:10 |
| Aaron McCrae | He got along very well. They played football and they accepted him, but they didn't want to accept the girls. I don't know why. | 43:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Did the girls continue to go? | 43:22 |
| Aaron McCrae | They continued to go to the Black schools. | 43:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Until they were officially— | 43:27 |
| Aaron McCrae | Until all of the schools. You see, we— | 43:29 |
| Chris Stewart | Who was the first student— | 43:32 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | First student to go to the— | 43:32 |
| Aaron McCrae | We integrated the schools in New Hanover County, but this community has its feet on the name McCrae. We have been given no credit, the Star News, Dr. Eaton used the NAACP to sue the Board of Education. The Star News, when they wanted to praise somebody, did a two-page editorial on Dr. Eaton. Aaron McCrae's name hadn't been mentioned. But we did the suffering. We opened the doors. | 43:33 |
| Chris Stewart | How did you prepare your son for going? How did you prepare him— | 44:34 |
| Aaron McCrae | He was prepared in Kansas. He had learned to live with White children as well as with Black children. All of our children were ready for integration when they came here. | 44:39 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Junior was in the little league. He played in the league, and he played 4-H Cup. And my daughter, Cynthia, sings. I mean, she went in 4-H, and Aaron Junior, they have stayed overnight over the weekend in White homes and White people have come to our house over the weekend and stayed in Kansas. And they were just used to—So they got along all right. Junior only had one instant when he was playing football. And he would go and if they could not eat—All the boys would eat with Aaron Junior. They wouldn't slice. | 44:55 |
| Chris Stewart | You yourself have said that the South was a different kind of place than say Kansas or the Western part of [indistinct 00:45:55] is there any way that you [indistinct 00:45:58]— | 45:44 |
| Aaron McCrae | Let me tell you what the pastor of the church of the Marquette, Westman Church said to us. They gave us a going away party. The pastor said to me, "Aaron, you ought to feel very proud of your family." I said, "Why." He— | 45:58 |
| Aaron McCrae | —used to be the seat. This county used to be the seat of clan activities in the state of Kansas when the clan was active out here. And you have conducted yourselves in such a manner that you have endeared yourselves to most of the people in this community. And so, the whole family was prepared. | 0:04 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I've got what I wanted for Aaron Jr. I don't want a whole lot of credit and all that, but he was in school. He had a chance to study with the children, with the best of them and he could avail himself to the opportunity, which he did. And so that's all I wanted. I just wanted my child— | 0:49 |
| Aaron McCrae | She and I are different. | 1:12 |
| Chris Stewart | I was going to say. | 1:17 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | [indistinct 00:01:18] to be treated equally. That's all I wanted. | 1:17 |
| Aaron McCrae | I wanted— | 1:21 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | [indistinct 00:01:22] thing. | 1:26 |
| Aaron McCrae | There's nothing in my life that equals the love that I have for my family, but I believe this about life. If I work for you and do a creditable job, it is your responsibility to reward me for the job that I did. In other words, I live in this world to command respect, not demand respect. My life I try to make such that all with whom I come in contact will learn to respect me. And I expect credit for the work that I do. And when I don't get it, I speak my peace. | 1:34 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | That's how my child was treated, that's all I wanted. | 2:47 |
| Chris Stewart | I mean, for those of us who are historians, this is really important. I understand the personal goals and such. | 2:50 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | [indistinct 00:03:03] for us on the board of education for this doctor on there, a doctor, he ran for governor or something, he went in office and I had to see him every day. But I stood up for my child because he asked me if I thought my son could go to this all White school. | 3:02 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, you talking about Mr. Laney? | 3:37 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I told him, "No, I don't think, I know it." I said, "Because he's capable of going to White schools." I told him my son was just as smart. | 3:39 |
| Chris Stewart | You think that your daughters received a different sort of education than your sons? Maybe not necessarily better. | 3:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, they were all in integrated schools before it was all over. We had a singular experience. Mrs. McCrae is the brick in the family. She has worked hard to support the family. I went to UNC you in 1973. I was in school with all of our children and with our son-in-law. | 3:56 |
| Chris Stewart | At the rip old age of 50 something. | 4:58 |
| Aaron McCrae | 59 I think I was. And we had a good time in school competing. | 5:03 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Aaron was in school. Aaron Junior was in school. Cynthia, Jackie, and Denise. | 5:06 |
| Chris Stewart | What did you get your degree in? | 5:14 |
| Aaron McCrae | I got a degree in philosophy and religion. | 5:16 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you minister prior to this? Were you a pastor prior to your going to school or? | 5:22 |
| Aaron McCrae | I was a minister prior to, but not long before. I finished in '75, but the year that I finished, there were three of us that graduated together. Cynthia and Denise and I graduated together, but she was in the background. | 5:29 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I was the only one working. | 6:04 |
| Aaron McCrae | Working every day. | 6:06 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | We had two pieces of cars and well, I'd drive to work or somebody would take me to work to the hospital, and then they would all go to school and they would park the car in a certain place, put the key under the mat, and whoever got out and needed the car would take the car, bring back. And I didn't know who was going to pick me up at three o'clock, but I knew somebody would be there and usually somebody would be there and we, that way them two little pieces of car, sometime one of the cars would break down and they'd call me, get in touch with each other, and so we made it. | 6:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you know, before we move on to this period, there's a whole period that I think we sort of skipped over from this. After Hampton till you were in the—I mean, you went into the military in the late '40s, wasn't it? | 7:01 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, I went into the military in '44. I went into the Marine Corps in '44. | 7:17 |
| Chris Stewart | What did you do from '39 to '44? You said you— | 7:27 |
| Aaron McCrae | I came back home. Well, I worked for Colonial stores in Hampton and Newport News, Virginia for a while. I worked as stock clerk. I think I was making around $14 a week and I wasn't— | 7:32 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | See, I didn't go to school. I couldn't go to school because my daddy—I'm in a nursery after we were married. | 8:03 |
| Aaron McCrae | I needed some further training in diplomacy because I wouldn't go to my boss and tell him that I was underpaid. But I stood back in the stockroom and I loud talked to him. I had a very good manager to begin with. His name was Stanley Brinkley. He was from Virginia, North Carolina, I think. I can't remember, but he was a southerner. | 8:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | We got along very well. He invited me to dinner in his home one night and he put my plate on the kitchen table and he and his wife sat in the dining room and we talked back and forth through the door. But we got along very well together. They changed managers. Stanley went to Newport News and a Mr. Harris became store manager. And he didn't particularly care for me too much. | 9:07 |
| Aaron McCrae | I came home on vacation and went back, he had hired someone else in my place. So I went over to Stanley and told him I needed a job and he gave me a job as stock clerk in his store, and I worked there until '41 or '42. I came home and applied for a job in the North Carolina shipyard. I worked at the shipyard for a few years. This is when I got hit over the head by the policeman. | 10:03 |
| Chris Stewart | What kind of work did you do at the shipyard? | 10:59 |
| Aaron McCrae | Let me see now. I'm having a mental block right now. I worked for the ship share department. I made shell plate for the liberty ships that we were building. In other words, we formed panels of steel platting according to forms. We had a White supervisor and he would take an instrument called a flatter. | 11:20 |
| Aaron McCrae | It was flat on the bottom and had a rounded head, and I was swinging a 12 pound hammer and we would beat the plate until it fitted the mold and we were only making 44 cents an hour at that time. But I worked there until '46 or '47. I don't remember which. | 12:05 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | No, because you were drafted. We got married. You was working down there because see, Cynthia was born in '43. Remember? Because you were drafted, you went in the Marine Corps. | 12:47 |
| Aaron McCrae | In '44? | 13:08 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Yeah. You were in the Marine Corps. | 13:12 |
| Aaron McCrae | So I worked down there until '44. I was drafted into the Marine Corps. | 13:13 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | You were drafted. You were drafted a little while before because soon as we got married, we weren't married a year. | 13:23 |
| Chris Stewart | So you didn't work there very long? | 13:25 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, not too long. | 13:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Was there any union activity there? | 13:27 |
| Aaron McCrae | They tried to get AFL-CIO, but it was voted down. | 13:29 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you recall, was it while you were there? | 13:37 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes. | 13:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you recall the drive? | 13:41 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, yes. There was a drive on. There were union organizers who came in. | 13:44 |
| Chris Stewart | From the north? | 13:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes, but the company had its people working and the company's people outnumbered those of us who fought for the union. You know the history of North Carolina and unionism, we are a right to work state and anytime a union tries to do anything in this state, they have a hard time. | 13:52 |
| Chris Stewart | What kind of approach did the AFL take with the, I mean, knowing that this is a right to work state, but they're also in a wartime economy, right? It sounds like you were for the union. | 14:31 |
| Aaron McCrae | I was definitely for the union. They simply had meetings and tried to impress on the employees the importance of union activity on any job, and that's as much as I can remember about it. | 14:47 |
| Chris Stewart | What did people, those who were opposed, workers who were opposed, why were they opposed? | 15:15 |
| Aaron McCrae | I don't know. All I know is that they outvoted the union. They voted against establishing the union in the yard. | 15:26 |
| Chris Stewart | So you worked there for, it doesn't sound like very long, but— | 15:43 |
| Aaron McCrae | But about three years. | 15:47 |
| Chris Stewart | —wherever you went, there was action. Hampton, the shipyard. What are the circumstances under which you got hit by the policemen? | 15:48 |
| Aaron McCrae | I started to work one night. At that time, the buses were segregated. All Blacks were to sit in the back. I was sitting in a side seat next to the aisle. There was room on the backseat for one or two people to sit. There was a White woman driving the bus. Two White men got on the bus and she said, "All right, you niggers, get in the back." I didn't move. There were Blacks sitting across the aisle from me, they didn't move. | 16:00 |
| Chris Stewart | This was in '40? | 17:05 |
| Aaron McCrae | This was in '43, I imagine. She drove around the corner and got to Second and Market. There was a policeman standing on the corner. She opened the door and said to him, "Make these get in the back." He came back all the way back and stood next to me and said, "All right, nigger, get in the back." And I said, "Officer, and that's as much as I got out. He hit me across the head with the nightstick, broke the skin, and I started to bleed. | 17:07 |
| Aaron McCrae | So I asked him if I could get off the bus. I got off the bus, went around to police headquarters. The assistant chief of police was on duty. I told him what had happened. He sent me out to James Walker Memorial Hospital, had my head dressed and brought me home. He had told me to meet him down there the next day and he would get it straightened out. I don't remember if my father went with me or not. I think he did. | 18:07 |
| Aaron McCrae | We went to police headquarters and sat there and sat there and sat there. But the assistant chief was nowhere to be found. They finally told us he was in court, but that was just an excuse. And so the matter was dropped. But that's how I was hit over the head. And right now I have a flat spot right here in the top of my head where he hit me. And from time to time, it pains a bit, but I don't think that he did any great damage. | 19:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Nothing ever came? | 20:01 |
| Aaron McCrae | No. | 20:03 |
| Chris Stewart | What about the other people who were on the bus? The others? | 20:04 |
| Aaron McCrae | They went on to work, I guess. | 20:07 |
| Chris Stewart | And the other African-American people who were sitting on there, were they [indistinct 00:20:15]? | 20:11 |
| Aaron McCrae | I don't know whether they moved or not because I got off of the bus. I came home and Elizabeth met me at the door and nearly had a fit. She saw all the blood over my shoulder. Wilmington has been a controversial city. Whites and Blacks have gotten along on the surface reasonably well. I noticed we have a Black sheriff. I knew him personally, and we talked for a long time. | 20:15 |
| Aaron McCrae | Blacks tried to be elected in this town and couldn't be elected because the vote was split racially. Whites voted for Whites and Blacks voted for Blacks. Sheriff McQueen told me that he was going to take his campaign to the White community, and so he and his workers went into the White communities knocking on doors and talking to people. And as a result, he got enough White votes to balance the Black votes that he got so that he became the sheriff of New Hanover County. | 21:24 |
| Aaron McCrae | And this is in keeping with my philosophy of life. We believe in Black voting. I can't tell Black people how to vote, but I know one thing. There aren't enough Black votes in any community that we have to elect the candidate on their own. It reminds me of years ago, the Urban League was a civil rights organization. A fellow named Farmer was its head. Farmer stood up on television or on the radio, I can't remember which, and said to America, "We need your money. We don't need you." | 22:33 |
| Aaron McCrae | And White America stopped supporting the Urban League and they went bankrupt. This country in order to survive, has got to stop fighting from racial lines and begin to think about the togetherness of American people. Our choir came to Duke while on tour. There were three of us, no, four of us, four Blacks who sang in the choir. Two of our daughters, a young lady by the name of Paula Holmes and myself. We sang with the UNCW course as it went on tour. What is the gentleman's name? No, I'm thinking about something else now. You had a lady minister at Duke to speak. I remember that. But that was an enjoyable engagement. | 23:48 |
| Chris Stewart | What do you think that the church's role in your life, you're obviously a minister, but how do you think that the church, and maybe I'm even saying your father to some extent, has shaped your values? | 25:36 |
| Aaron McCrae | Very greatly. There is a passage of scripture that says, you are neither Jew nor Greek. You're neither bond nor free. You're neither male nor female for you're all one in Christ Jesus. I take that to mean you're neither a Black nor White. You're neither red nor brown, but you are all one people and should live together as brothers and sisters under God Almighty. That has definitely and decidedly shaped my philosophy on life. | 26:02 |
| Chris Stewart | And it sounds like not only has it shaped your philosophy, but also your actions. Some people have philosophies and then don't follow through or choose not to for various reasons. | 27:08 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, I have made this my policy in life, regardless of the person that I meet, I give that person 100 points. I accept that person as being a good person, and I let that person downgrade himself or maintain himself at 100 points. Now, what do I do if the person downgrades himself? I believe that God Almighty requires of me that I try to teach that downgraded person, that he may once again be elevated to the status of 100 points. And because of it, I get along pretty well in life. | 27:20 |
| Chris Stewart | That's a big job. | 28:48 |
| Aaron McCrae | It is a big job. | 28:53 |
| Chris Stewart | Stupid words, but sorry, but it's not just a big job. Wow. No, it's a huge endeavor, that's more like it. It's incredible. Is there anything, sir, that I haven't asked you about that you would like me to ask you about? | 28:58 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, what I didn't tell you about my life, I have spent five different periods in my life in a mental hospital. I was discharged from the United States Air Force as being mentally incompetent. I came home, my condition became aggravated. I have been confined to the New Hanover County Jail three different times. | 29:14 |
| Aaron McCrae | I have gone before the Clerk of Superior Court at least twice challenging their findings. But they have committed me to a mental institution. In spite of their findings, I have successfully pastored two churches, one that my father pastored at which I paid off two church mortgages. I put new lights in the church. I recarpeted the church and did many other things that needed doing in the church. In Wilmington, I pastored my home church. And this is something they say that in the Baptist church, a local boy can't pastor his home church. | 30:26 |
| Chris Stewart | What is your home church? | 31:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | Macedonia Baptist Church. But for 10 and a half years, I pastored Macedonia, at which time I led the congregation to build $100000 educational annex. And in six years I paid it off and I raised money on my own just as I required the church to do. I wrote letters to outstanding people in this country asking them for contribution. I even wrote Ronald Reagan a letter, and Ronald Ronald wrote me back, or at least his secretary wrote me back. | 31:52 |
| Aaron McCrae | We are sorry to inform you, but Mr. Reagan will continue to support the charities he has been supporting. But I did have one philanthropist here in New Hanover County, Mr. Dan Cameron, who is a friend of mine. I wrote Dan and Dan sent me $100. I saw him one day and I told him, I said, "Mr. Cameron, I thank you very much for the liberal contribution that you gave our church." And he said, "What contribution, Aaron?" And I told him. He said, "If I had known it was you, I would've given you more." So a couple of years later, I wrote him another letter. | 33:00 |
| Chris Stewart | And signed it with your personal name. | 34:02 |
| Aaron McCrae | And one day I went out to the church mailbox and there was this small envelope in there and I opened it and it was from Dan Cameron with a check for $1000. So in spite of being branded as being mentally ill, I'm still able to carry on. And right now, I am the associate minister of Shiloh Baptist Church. | 34:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Why do you think this branding has taken place? | 34:53 |
| Aaron McCrae | Because I dare love America and its people indiscriminately. Blacks don't want to love Whites. Whites don't want to love Blacks. And I'm caught in the middle. I walked alone. Excuse me a minute. I'll be right back. As I was saying, when I began to have my troubles, I was an outstanding airman, but my loyalties were to the air force and not to anyone individual. | 35:01 |
| Aaron McCrae | The colonel who recommended me for promotion to master sergeant was commander of a base. I was asked by a higher command to join in an inspection of that base because of some problems in aircraft maintenance. To the best of my ability, I evaluated maintenance activities on that base and found them to be substandard. I so wrote my report accordingly. I got a letter of commendation from the commander of the higher echelon, but the officers of my headquarters jumped on me undercurrently with both feet, and as a result, I was railroaded out of the air force. It's part of racial prejudice. | 36:19 |
| Chris Stewart | I've heard. Not exactly that story of your telling of. It reminds me of other situations that I've heard men who have talked about their military experience and I've talked to two other men who were discharged for a variety of reasons due to racial incidents or racial prejudice. Well, sir, there's a biographical form that I would like to fill out to accompany your tape. It's basically, like I said, biographical information and family history. So it won't take too long, but I'll just go ahead and these are very basic questions, names and dates type of thing. I need your full name. | 38:00 |
| Aaron McCrae | Reverend Aaron Adel, A-D-E-L, McCrae, M-C-C-R-A-E. | 38:55 |
| Chris Stewart | M-C, capital C? | 39:09 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes. | 39:10 |
| Chris Stewart | How do you spell Aaron? | 39:19 |
| Aaron McCrae | Capital A-A-R-O-N. | 39:22 |
| Chris Stewart | And your current address is? | 39:26 |
| Aaron McCrae | 3709 Prices Lane. | 39:29 |
| Chris Stewart | And your phone number? | 39:33 |
| Aaron McCrae | 763-9552. | 39:41 |
| Chris Stewart | And if your name was to appear in any written materials, how would you like it to appear? | 39:47 |
| Aaron McCrae | Aaron A. McCrae. Yeah, senior. | 39:54 |
| Chris Stewart | And your birthdate? | 39:59 |
| Aaron McCrae | 26 October, 1920. | 40:11 |
| Chris Stewart | And you place of birth? | 40:20 |
| Aaron McCrae | Wilmington, North Carolina. | 40:20 |
| Chris Stewart | Never got to California, huh? | 40:20 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, I've been there, but I never moved there. And I've changed my choice. I've later said I was born in the south. I grew up in the south. I love the people of the south, and so I want to make my home in the South. And that's the way I live now. | 40:25 |
| Chris Stewart | People do grow and change, don't we? | 41:00 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yeah. | 41:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Your spouse's name? | 41:04 |
| Aaron McCrae | Mrs. Elizabeth C. McCrae. The C stands for Chadwick. | 41:07 |
| Chris Stewart | Is that your maiden name now? | 41:16 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Yeah. | 41:16 |
| Chris Stewart | And your date of birth? | 41:24 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | March 17th, 1917. March the 30th, 1917. | 41:27 |
| Chris Stewart | And where were you born then? You are a retired nurse. My mom's a nurse. She was one of the people who went back to school at a very late age. | 41:37 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh, is that right? | 41:55 |
| Chris Stewart | 40s, yeah. Your mother's name, sir? | 41:57 |
| Aaron McCrae | Bertha Helen McCrae. Mrs. Bertha Helen McCrae. | 42:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you recall her maiden name? | 42:09 |
| Aaron McCrae | Batts. B-A-T-T-S. | 42:11 |
| Chris Stewart | And her date of birth? | 42:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | You've got me there. It was September 25th, 18 something, but I can't remember what. | 42:21 |
| Chris Stewart | When did she die? | 42:32 |
| Aaron McCrae | She died in 65, at age 77. | 42:34 |
| Chris Stewart | That's 12 years. 1888? | 42:38 |
| Aaron McCrae | Perhaps. Thereabouts. | 42:48 |
| Chris Stewart | And where was she born? | 42:52 |
| Aaron McCrae | Duplin County. | 42:54 |
| Chris Stewart | Was she born on a farm? | 42:59 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes. | 43:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you have any idea which farm she was born on? | 43:03 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, I don't. | 43:05 |
| Chris Stewart | And her occupation? A housewife. | 43:07 |
| Aaron McCrae | She was a housewife. | 43:09 |
| Chris Stewart | Your father's name? | 43:10 |
| Aaron McCrae | Reverend James Daniel McCrae. | 43:12 |
| Chris Stewart | Is it Daniel with an E-L? | 43:15 |
| Aaron McCrae | D-A-N-I-E-L. | 43:23 |
| Chris Stewart | And his date of birth? | 43:26 |
| Aaron McCrae | Let's see. He died in '51 at age 68. | 43:41 |
| Chris Stewart | 1883? | 43:56 |
| Aaron McCrae | Perhaps. | 43:58 |
| Chris Stewart | He was born in? | 44:01 |
| Aaron McCrae | McCall, South Carolina. | 44:04 |
| Chris Stewart | And your father was a Baptist minister? | 44:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | Baptist preacher. | 44:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Now to your brothers and sisters, their names in order of birth. | 44:26 |
| Aaron McCrae | I have a half brother whose name was Harley Henderson. I don't begin to know his date of birth. I don't even remember how old he was when he died. | 44:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you know what year he died? | 44:58 |
| Aaron McCrae | '67 I think it was. | 45:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you know where he was born? | 45:06 |
| Aaron McCrae | He was born here in East Wilmington. James Naris McCrae. He was born in 19—Was he 17? | 45:09 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | 16. But James was older than I was. | 45:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | Was he? | 45:51 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Yeah. | 45:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | 1916. | 45:51 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I think 15 or 16. | 45:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Is he still alive? | 45:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, he died four years ago. | 45:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Was he born in Wilmington as well? | 45:57 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes. Isaac David McCrae. He was born in November. | 45:59 |
| Aaron McCrae | —Is, he and Robert are about the same age, aren't they, Elizabeth? | 0:01 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | [indistinct 00:00:06] From November to February 5, and let me see, I'm 76. [indistinct 00:00:18]. Robert's around 68 now, because—[indistinct 00:00:35] That's a few—[indistinct 00:00:42]. | 0:05 |
| Chris Stewart | '25? 1925? | 0:06 |
| Aaron McCrae | Something like that. Yes, because my sister was born in '26. | 0:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. And your sister's name? | 0:47 |
| Aaron McCrae | Charity Synolia. S-Y-N-O-L-I-A. | 0:57 |
| Chris Stewart | Was she named Charity for your parents' friends, the friend that you were telling me about? | 1:02 |
| Aaron McCrae | No. I don't know. It could have been for Charity Powell or it could have been from the Bible. | 1:09 |
| Chris Stewart | And she was born in '26, you said? | 1:18 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yeah. | 1:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Is she still alive? | 1:24 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes, she's still alive. | 1:28 |
| Chris Stewart | Was she born in Wilmington? | 1:28 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, she was born in Enfield, and Isaac was born in Goldsboro. | 1:32 |
| Chris Stewart | And you are the third child? | 1:49 |
| Aaron McCrae | Third child. Yes, I'm the third child. | 1:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Now we're to your children. | 1:52 |
| Aaron McCrae | Oh. | 1:53 |
| Chris Stewart | [indistinct 00:01:54] Can help you. Eldest? | 1:53 |
| Aaron McCrae | Cynthia Synolia. | 1:53 |
| Chris Stewart | That's just a beautiful name. | 1:53 |
| Aaron McCrae | Thank you. | 2:07 |
| Chris Stewart | It's S-Y-N— | 2:11 |
| Aaron McCrae | O-L-I-A. | 2:11 |
| Chris Stewart | Is she married? | 2:25 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes. | 2:26 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Tyson. | 2:26 |
| Aaron McCrae | She's a Tyson. | 2:29 |
| Chris Stewart | And her birthday? | 2:30 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | July 8th, 1943. | 2:35 |
| Chris Stewart | And was she born here? | 2:41 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes. She was born here in Wilmington. | 2:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. | 2:49 |
| Aaron McCrae | Aaron Odell McCray, Jr. | 2:49 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | April the 22nd, 1940—He was born in '46. Cynthia is three years older than Jerry. She was born [indistinct 00:03:19] here. He was born in St. Monica in Arizona. | 3:01 |
| Aaron McCrae | Phoenix, Arizona. | 3:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. | 3:33 |
| Aaron McCrae | Denise Nadine McCray. She was born in October 16th, 1952. | 3:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Was she also born in Phoenix? | 3:56 |
| Aaron McCrae | She was born here in Wilmington. | 3:59 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | I think I gave her wrong address. | 3:59 |
| Aaron McCrae | The wrong year for Aaron Junior. '47, isn't it? | 4:13 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | No. | 4:15 |
| Aaron McCrae | '50. | 4:15 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | It's 50, because we got married, we got married, it was in '43. I'm thinking about our marriage [indistinct 00:04:36]. | 4:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | Cynthia was born in '47. | 4:35 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | That's it. | 4:36 |
| Aaron McCrae | And Aaron was born in '50. | 4:39 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | And Denise was '52, because they're two years different in age. | 4:45 |
| Aaron McCrae | And Jacqueline Elaine. | 4:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Is that Jacqueline, Y-N, or I-N-E? | 4:53 |
| Aaron McCrae | I-N-E. | 4:56 |
| Chris Stewart | Is she married? | 4:59 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, she's single. | 5:00 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Born in July the 21st. | 5:02 |
| Aaron McCrae | 1954. | 5:05 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Yeah. Two years different only. | 5:16 |
| Aaron McCrae | And where was she born? | 5:18 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | She was born here in Wilmington. All my girls are born here. [indistinct 00:05:24] was born while he was in the service. | 5:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you have any grandchildren? | 5:25 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Yes. | 5:27 |
| Chris Stewart | I don't need names. Just the amount. | 5:28 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Yeah. I have seven grandchildren. | 5:31 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you have great-grandchildren? | 5:36 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Three great-grandchildren. | 5:39 |
| Aaron McCrae | There they are, right there. | 5:41 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Those are my great-grandchildren there. | 5:42 |
| Chris Stewart | Look at that. That's a big picture. Wow. | 5:53 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Me and my grandchildren here. Look here. | 6:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay, now we go to your residential history, places that you've lived. | 6:05 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, you mean as a married family? | 6:13 |
| Chris Stewart | No, I mean— | 6:18 |
| Aaron McCrae | Just each of us? | 6:22 |
| Chris Stewart | No, for you. | 6:24 |
| Aaron McCrae | For me? I've lived in Wilmington, in Goldsboro, in Enfield, in Battlesboro in Kansas, in Louisiana. Do you want the places where I've been stationed in the Air Force? | 6:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 7:02 |
| Aaron McCrae | Arizona. | 7:03 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | [indistinct 00:07:09]. | 7:03 |
| Aaron McCrae | That's right. The family lived in Arizona. | 7:08 |
| Elizabeth McCrae | Junior was born there. | 7:11 |
| Aaron McCrae | And South Carolina. | 7:11 |
| Chris Stewart | Now, you did all your traveling before about the age of seven, right? You came back here to Wilmington about the age of seven? | 7:23 |
| Aaron McCrae | About the age of seven. | 7:32 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Now your education history, starting from the beginning. | 7:49 |
| Aaron McCrae | I started school in Goldsboro. I don't know how long I went there, but I came to Peabody, from Peabody to Williston, from Williston to Hampton Institute. From Hampton Institute to Phoenix Junior College in Phoenix, Arizona. And UNCW. | 7:54 |
| Chris Stewart | And you had a degree in philosophy and religion? | 8:46 |
| Aaron McCrae | That's right. I'm in school now. | 8:55 |
| Chris Stewart | You are? | 8:56 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yes. I am pursuing a doctorate of theology. I can't even remember the name of the school. They have a campus here in Wilmington. It is an independent Baptist school. I have a mental block. But look in there and get me that. | 9:03 |
| Chris Stewart | What about work history, sir? | 9:32 |
| Aaron McCrae | I have work for Colonial— | 10:54 |
| Chris Stewart | [indistinct 00:09:49]. | 10:54 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yeah. Work history. As a child, I worked for Dixon's Cash Grocery. When I left Hampton, I worked for Colonial Stores. | 10:54 |
| Chris Stewart | What was your job title there? | 10:55 |
| Aaron McCrae | At Colonial Stores? Stock Clerk. In Wilmington, I worked at North Carolina Ship Building Company. In the United States Air Force, I started as an apprentice mechanic and ended up as chief inspector. | 11:00 |
| Chris Stewart | 1944 to 1958? | 11:27 |
| Aaron McCrae | No, 1944 to 1946 in the Marine Corps. | 11:38 |
| Chris Stewart | 1944 to 1946. So from 1946 to 1950— | 11:54 |
| Aaron McCrae | No. From 1946 to 1948, I was a farmer and an insurance agent. | 11:59 |
| Chris Stewart | Right in this area? | 12:20 |
| Aaron McCrae | Yeah. | 12:22 |
| Chris Stewart | What'd you farm? | 12:26 |
| Aaron McCrae | Tobacco, corn. | 12:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Same things your father farmed? | 12:30 |
| Aaron McCrae | Uh-huh. In fact, I was farming for my father. That is quite a year to remember. I worked hard that year, raised my tobacco, and put it in the pack house, and the pack house leaked and my tobacco got wet. | 12:32 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh no. | 12:57 |
| Aaron McCrae | And I tried to doctor it up so that it would pass on the market, took it to the market, sold my entire crop, and got one crisp $100 bill. And my daddy took that $100 for payment on the mule that we had bought. So I worked the whole year and didn't get a thing out of it. That ended my farming career. | 12:59 |
| Chris Stewart | So was it '48 then, that you joined the Air Force? | 13:38 |
| Aaron McCrae | I joined the Air Force in '48. | 13:41 |
| Chris Stewart | And you started out, you said, as— | 13:44 |
| Aaron McCrae | As a private. | 13:46 |
| Chris Stewart | And you ended up? | 13:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | I ended up as an E-7, a Master Sergeant. Speaking of prejudice in the Air Force, they came out with two new grades, the E-8 and the E-9. I was at Shilling Air Force Base. We had to take an examination. Out of all of the Master Sergeants on the base, two managed to pass the test, and I was one of them. They had two vacancies. Rather than see me get one of those vacancies, the base commander ordered that the exam be given all over again, and as a result, most of the master sergeants passed. How they mysteriously passed the second time, I don't know, but I know I didn't get the promotion. I got railroaded out of the service. | 13:51 |
| Aaron McCrae | But that's what prejudice can do, and that's what we have lived down now. I'm as proud today of the Air Force as I could possibly be, of the armed forces, in fact. Of all the work that President Bush did, he called himself a conservative, but he upgraded a Black man to the highest position in the armed forces, and I can appreciate him for that, because the armed forces has outlived a lot of the prejudice that they had to begin with. | 15:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Have you ever received any awards or honors, sir? | 16:18 |
| Aaron McCrae | I was Outstanding Airman in my hydraulics class for having made the highest score in the class. I made a 4.2 out of a possible five. I received a letter of commendation from the Commanding General of Tactical Air Command for services rendered in an inspection of Alexandria Air Force Base. Those are the only two awards that I received while I was in the service. | 16:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Any other church affiliated awards or community honors that have [indistinct 00:17:41]? | 17:33 |
| Aaron McCrae | Well, I have— | 17:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Just let me get that [indistinct 00:17:46]— | 17:42 |
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