Emma Whitfield (primary interviewee) and Nettie Donlap interview recording, 1993 August 06

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Karen Ferguson	You both telling me about the communities in which you grew up and some of the people you grew up with.	0:01
Emma Whitfield	What, talk together?	0:08
Karen Ferguson	Well you could go one —	0:10
Emma Whitfield	At a time?	0:11
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. Would you like to begin, Whitfield?	0:13
Emma Whitfield	I grew up in Fort Barnwell, North Carolina. And the name of my church is Alvin Spring Disciples, and my father was a farmer. And I was teached very well at the school at Fort Barnwell, North Carolina. And I was teached by other parents, and I raised in prayer meetings, churches. And I still go to church and a mother and a proud mamaw. And I had six little children. They're all grown, and my life was very, very, very good, because I had [indistinct 00:00:37] parents and growed up with 13 other children, my sisters and brothers. And can tell you age, if you want to.	0:18
Karen Ferguson	Sure, if you want to.	1:12
Emma Whitfield	74 years old, born 1919. And I'm happy with Christ in my life so [indistinct 00:01:22].	1:16
Karen Ferguson	All right, and Ms. Dunlop, where did you grow up?	1:26
Nettie Donlap	I grew up on The Browery, at that time we called it, but now they call that then — You know where the airport is?	1:31
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	1:35
Nettie Donlap	Kinston Airport, I grew up in that area. And we were sharecroppers, and there were eight of us in the family, and my mother and father made 10. And we went to the school, country school out there, a little one-room school.	1:40
Speaker 1	Do you have anymore tape recorders?	2:14
Karen Ferguson	Hmm-mm.	2:14
Nettie Donlap	We went to a one-room school, and we had two teachers. One was in the back and the other one in the front. And the school went to the sixth grade. They taught to the sixth grade there, and we burned for heat, it was wood. And then the larger boys had to go out in the woods and cut wood to keep the school warm with. And after they had cut the wood, the larger girls would go out and help bring it into the school, so it'd be there in the school to help keep it warm. And us, the teachers that were working at the school during the time that I was going, some of them were living in Kinston. And a lot of them at that time walked from Kinston out on The Browery to school in the morning. And some of them, I know one, while my cousin was teaching out there, and she stayed with us during the week, and her daughter, and went home on the weekend.	2:16
Nettie Donlap	And we were affiliated with the Methodist church there, and we were raised in the church. And my grandparents were living in Dover at that time, and my father's father passed when he was a young boy, I think around seven or nine years old. And his mother came to live with us in her latter years, and she lived in the house with us until she passed. And on Sundays we would visit church and leave church and go home for dinner. And we didn't have transportation. People didn't have transportation like they do now, but we would walk sometimes three and four miles to visit someone in the neighborhood.	3:26
Nettie Donlap	And during the week, midweek, Wednesday night prayer meeting, we all would go to prayer meetings Wednesday night. And on Sunday we had to go to — It was a must in my home for the children to go to Sunday school Sunday morning. Otherwise we couldn't leave out of the yard all day. And after working on the farm all week, you didn't want to stay indoors all Sunday. So we would make it a point to go to Sunday school on Sunday morning, so we would be able to go out the rest of the day and visit and play. And maybe you had some question you want to ask me at this point.	4:23
Karen Ferguson	Well I don't know. I wondered if Ms. Whitfield, if she shared some of the experiences that you were talking about.	5:05
Emma Whitfield	Yes, what she was talking about, I think y'all went through it too, because we walked. And I used to tell my children about how we walked. And I was told I [indistinct 00:05:22]. And I says, "Our mother will prepare a meal." And I says, "We have collard greens." And I said, "My father raised hogs." We had sausage, ham biscuits and sweet potatoes. I said, "That was so good." And said, "We would share our lunch with other children at the school." And quite naturally we, just like she said, that the boys would go out and cut wood, and we would tote it in. And my children couldn't understand how we walked to school and toted our food in little tin buckets. And I said, "Rainy days," I said, "my father went and bought a mule. And he made his own wagon, got some old wheels, and he put a top over it so we could go to school rainy days."	5:17
Emma Whitfield	And I said, "And finally last in years, he bought the first car, A Model Ford. And my older sister learned how to drive it." And I said, "And she would pick up children on their road and make loads and come back and pick them up." Now my baby brother, he would get him a little song and come up. His hands would be cold, walking cold, rain, cold days. And they just couldn't understand how in the world we made it. I says, "By the help of the Lord, we did make it."	6:17
Emma Whitfield	And the first school bus that we rode on, [indistinct 00:07:02]. He got a body. And he took a motor on the truck and put in that body, and then he — the first school bus they ever rode. And I said, "From then on, in fact we went up to the 11th grade. And from then on, we had something to ride on." And about three years ago, at least about two years ago, I went back to night school. And I [indistinct 00:07:43] the teacher teached us night school. And I says, "Y'all got a good chance now."	6:57
Emma Whitfield	I says, "We had it kind of tough as I growed up." I realize it was kind of tough, but we made it. And I said, "And then we, when I got married, we farmed." And if you farm, your children will grow up, and they go on about their school and on about their business. And my husband [indistinct 00:08:13] about three years ago, stayed married 52 years. And it was a good, good marriage, raised six little children. And I got greats and greats grandchildren. And so the Lord has blessed me. That's all I have to say.	7:47
Karen Ferguson	Right. Now was your family when you were growing up, did they sharecrop as well as Ms. Dunlop?	8:36
Emma Whitfield	Well yes.	8:43
Karen Ferguson	What was the arrangement that your families had with the landlord?	8:46
Nettie Donlap	Well it was supposed to be sharecropping on half, but you know how that is. Nothing in writing, and he's keeping on the figures and everything. So if you got with someone nice, you could pass sort of halfway decent. And if not, you'll never come out of that debt, and it would be very hard.	8:50
Karen Ferguson	Did you farm with good people when you were growing up, or were they unfair?	9:16
Nettie Donlap	Well they were about as unfair or fair as the rest, but all of them got across. You know?	9:19
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	9:28
Nettie Donlap	That was the name of the game. And when we finished the sixth grade there, we would go to Kinston School, but they had no means of transportation there. You had to walk, or if your parents had a car or something, they would take you on the rainy days, like Ms. Whitfield said, and pick you up on the rainy days. But you only want to know, you're interested in back there then.	9:30
Karen Ferguson	Well anything you want to tell me is fine.	10:01
Nettie Donlap	Well you want to know the past, because you known about this life here is for the past, I'll say, 20 or 30 years.	10:04
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. Well now did you both, were you sharecropping on halves as well?	10:12
Emma Whitfield	Yeah, on halves.	10:21
Karen Ferguson	Now did that mean, did you provide your own farm implements?	10:22
Nettie Donlap	No, no.	10:25
Emma Whitfield	No, they furnished that they selves. And just like Ms. Dunlop says, that there's some good landowners, the last landlord we got to, me and my husband were farmers. He just cleaned everything out and had nothing else to come to us and said we made it, but he wasn't going to give. He had to have him a retire. And he's still living, so he was kind of really tough with us, because my baby wasn't a few months old. But the Lord just made a way, and he blessed us all down through the years as we go along.	10:27
Emma Whitfield	All our children was home at that time. And so the Lord made a way for us to get something of our own later on to live in. And so my oldest children, they can remember when they, when the farmer ripped off for everything [indistinct 00:11:31] he had the nerve to come up and tell what he had to do. And I said, "Well," I says, "what there's a way, there's a will." So as my children growed up, and they realized what we teach them, and I says, because my husband [indistinct 00:11:47].	11:05
Emma Whitfield	And I says, "We haven't got no money to hire us a lawyer to fight him. I suggest just let it be." And said, "Our pastor used to tell us, 'What goes around comes around.'" And I said, "What we got, what all us got, we can hate less. I said, "The Lord provide us with what we got." And so he kind of [indistinct 00:12:15], so we didn't go in no trepidation to get nothing. But like I said, the Lord blessed us with what we got. And so just like I said, I just trust in the Lord and face and understand that he is the way. And so I just one day at that time.	11:47
Karen Ferguson	Now did both of you, did everybody in your family work in the field?	12:44
Emma Whitfield	Yes, everyone.	12:49
Nettie Donlap	A large amount, mm-hmm.	12:50
Karen Ferguson	And how about your mothers? Did they do any work other than farm work?	12:52
Emma Whitfield	That's all, that's all they did, farm work, because my father made it 90 years old. And my mother got around 80 before my father. My father married four times after my mother, and he raised him another family. Three little girls, and they're still living, grown and got children of they own. And so that's all the work they really did, is farm work.	13:01
Karen Ferguson	And when did you start working in the felids?	13:33
Nettie Donlap	Well I can remember I was working before then, because we would have to be in the field with the parents. And they would leave us in one part of the field while they were working in the other part. But I picked my first 100 pounds of cotton when I was six years old, because my father used to give us a penny a pound. And I picked my first 100 pounds of cotton when I was six years old. And during those times, we didn't have any problem with food, because we raised all of our edibles. And we didn't have any problem with food, and I had an uncle that was living in Albany, New York. And he did public work and everything, and every so often he would send down a barrel of clothing and everything. And then when he came in, he would give my father and mother cash money and everything. So we, I think, got along a little better than maybe some of the others did.	13:37
Nettie Donlap	And the reason why we left the farm, as Mrs. Whitfield was saying, this particular year we did pretty good on the farm. And the man accused him of not dividing corn equally and everything. So my brothers were grown at that time, but they were still at the house. So what my father did when he sold the crops, he went and made arrangements to buy a farm of his own and right at the homestead over there on the other side of the church. But when I came out of school, out of high school, I graduated from high school in Fort Barnwell. And when I came out of there, I worked with the Wale Family, Ms. Cindy White, was getting into surplus food. They didn't have checks going out like they do now, but they were giving out surplus food and denim that they make the coveralls with and materials to make dresses, different things.	14:53
Nettie Donlap	And in my grandmother's house at that time, the women that had the sewing machines, I think there were three women that would come to her house during the week certain days. And the instructor would be up, and they would make clothes to give to the people that didn't have money. And we were able to, everyone were able to make it.	16:17
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. Now you said this was the welfare department?	16:42
Nettie Donlap	Well whatever you had at that time, I know some form of help.	16:46
Karen Ferguson	Right. But was this the county that was paying this woman to do this?	16:54
Nettie Donlap	I really can't say, because I was a small girl at that time. And I don't know, but I do know certain days to the week they would come to my grandmother's house, and everyone would be sewing, making these clothes and everything. And they were giving out the peas, beans and rice and [indistinct 00:17:18] meat and different things like that. And I would go with her on Wednesday after I came out of school to help pick up this stuff once a month to bring back and distribute among the people, to help out and that.	16:57
Nettie Donlap	Well before next school term come, I left and went to New York and start to work in there and went to school and took different courses there. And I ended up working for the city, and that's where I retired from.	17:37
Karen Ferguson	Okay. Now you said before about buying the land, that the man didn't like the fact, thought that your father had divided it —	17:52
Nettie Donlap	Unequally.	18:02
Karen Ferguson	Okay. Now did your father sell his own crops?	18:03
Nettie Donlap	No, the landowner went with the farmer to the market to sell. But see, this was the corn that was broken in the field. He was supposed to get a load, and my father was supposed to get a load. But he said that my father wasn't dividing it right. And my father just finished out that year there and took what money there was, and then he paid down on him a farm and started farming on his own land and farmed there until he stopped farming at — I imagine my father was in his late 50s when he started farming, and he lived to get 87 years old, because he did public work after that. He was a carpenter, and then he did public work after that. And as I was saying, I went to New York, and I met and married my husband there and owned four children. And I retired from Cumberland Hospital, and I have four children and three children living. One is working for the city, and I think all three of them are working for the city but different departments in the city.	18:07
Karen Ferguson	So they're all living in New York City?	19:19
Nettie Donlap	Mm-hmm, and I have some three granddaughters. I just went to a granddaughter's graduation the 26th of June. She graduated from John Jay School of Law and [indistinct 00:19:39]. And the other one have another year in school before she's coming out and doing pretty good.	19:25
Karen Ferguson	That's good.	19:40
Nettie Donlap	Grand great grand, I have five grands, five great grands and another one on the way.	19:46
Karen Ferguson	Okay, that's great. Now when your father bought the land, this land, did he have any trouble buying it? Who did he buy it from?	19:59
Nettie Donlap	I don't know. I would have to see the deed. I was small at that time. I would have to see the deed to know that. But it had to be from some White person or another. I don't know, because all money look alike. You can't tell the Black from the White, but he was able to buy the farm.	20:09
Karen Ferguson	Were there many Black landowners in this area?	20:29
Nettie Donlap	Not right here, and there were a lot too. There were a lot too at that time. There were a lot, but over the years, especially since they started with this limiting the acreage that you can tend in tobacco and stuff like that, a lot of people have sold. And their land, some was bought by Blacks, and some was bought by Whites.	20:34
Karen Ferguson	Right, yeah. Mrs. Whitfield, what crops did you grow on your farm when you were growing up?	21:07
Emma Whitfield	Tobacco and cotton and corn, and he raised cane to make molasses. And he raised up planted gardens.	21:11
Nettie Donlap	Sweet potatoes, white potatoes.	21:22
Emma Whitfield	Sweet potatoes, white potatoes, everything edible, raised hogs, cows.	21:29
Karen Ferguson	You had your own stock, both of them.	21:39
Emma Whitfield	Mm-hmm.	21:39
Nettie Donlap	Mm-hmm. Chicken, turkeys and chickens, and sometimes in the fall of the year you take a dozen eggs, and you go into the city. And you sell them, and in the summertime we would pick brier berries and huckleberries and take them into the city and sell them. It's a little money to come in.	21:40
Emma Whitfield	Same.	21:58
Karen Ferguson	So was this into Kinston, where you'd go?	21:59
Nettie Donlap	Yes, or whatever neighborhood you're used to. We were next to, nearest to Kinston.	22:01
Karen Ferguson	Right. Now you said you picked 100 of cotton when you were six years old.	22:06
Nettie Donlap	Mm-hmm, my first 100 pounds.	22:13
Karen Ferguson	And how about you? How much?	22:14
Emma Whitfield	Got about 50 pounds.	22:14
Karen Ferguson	Because I've spoken to people who, even when they were grown, couldn't pick 100 pounds of cotton in a day.	22:18
Nettie Donlap	Well my father would pick 200 [indistinct 00:22:25].	22:23
Emma Whitfield	Mine too, and I had a brother would pick 200. He would [indistinct 00:22:29] pick so hard, couldn't get but 50 pounds. He could get me, get up to 100 pounds. And now he said, "Don't tell Daddy now." Because we called him papa, said, "Don't call Papa now. Don't tell Papa now." He says that I helped me, I would pick so hard, trying to get me 100 pounds of cotton, and I couldn't get but 50 pounds.	22:25
Karen Ferguson	Why do you think some people could do it better than others?	22:53
Emma Whitfield	I don't know. My mother, my grandmother, she walked with a stick, and she would come up to 200 pounds every day. She walked with a stick. And I says, "Grandmother, you can come up with 200 pounds. Help me come up to 100." And I would try to pick so hard. And my oldest brother would take pity's sake on me.	22:55
Emma Whitfield	He said, "I'm going to give you a sack of my cotton. Don't tell Papa now. I'll give you one." And where all the children's cotton sacks, my father was so proud of me coming up to 100 pounds.	23:13
Emma Whitfield	Now he call my sissy, says, "Sissy, come up to 100 pounds." And we never let him know my brother helped me.	23:35
Karen Ferguson	How about you? Do you remember anybody who could pick a lot of cotton in your —	23:35
Nettie Donlap	My father could pick a lot, and my older sister would pick over 200 pounds. But they were the only ones in the family that could pick a lot of cotton.	23:38
Karen Ferguson	Was there anybody in your neighborhood who could pick even more than that?	23:50
Nettie Donlap	Yeah, other people same way as we were doing. And during the year when we had chopping and stuff like that to do, when we finished chopping on our farm, we crossed the ditch and go over and help the neighbor finish his little field of chopping and everything. And the same thing about anything that we were doing like that, suckering tobacco, pulling the sucks from the tobacco and everything, we'd go right across the ditch into the next farm and help those. Everyone worked together, and it was a very good feeling. And then my mother would do a lot of canning, vegetables and fruits. And like they call it now sauerkraut, we used to make the cabbage and collards in the barrel with the [indistinct 00:24:41].	23:54
Karen Ferguson	Okay, and what did you call that?	24:40
Nettie Donlap	We called it krauts, cabbage and collard kraut. And in the fall of the year, in the fall of the year when the men started to selling the crops, the men would get together, and they would go to New Bern or someplace. And they called it pulling the seine, have that net and pull and get all those fish and divide them up and bring them home. And they would salt them down and everything, so we could have fish to eat. And kill a cow, and that was before they had the refrigeration and had to salt it down the same way and everything.	24:41
Karen Ferguson	Right. Now when they went fishing like this, did you have your own boat?	25:31
Nettie Donlap	No, you rented the boat like you do today, if you don't have your own.	25:35
Karen Ferguson	Right, and they would just pull this seine.	25:38
Nettie Donlap	Well they had a net. They catch them in the net and divide them up.	25:41
Karen Ferguson	Right, okay.	25:45
Nettie Donlap	But food was always plentiful.	25:48
Karen Ferguson	What were some of the times when people got together to have a good time? What were some of the — I've heard some people talk about Tobacco Times. Was that a time—	25:54
Emma Whitfield	[indistinct 00:26:05], and my mother used to cook that teacakes. And she would make biscuits and fry ham and cook the biscuits and put ham between the biscuits. And this neighbor had [indistinct 00:26:23] the night and just take out a whole lot of tobacco during the day. And at night they go and tie it up, and the menfolk would stick it up and pack it down. But the next night, the next neighbor would do the same thing. And so that's where they work together and have a good time.	26:08
Karen Ferguson	Right. What would you do at Tobacco Time other than work out in the tying of tobacco?	26:44
Nettie Donlap	That was the — You're getting it ready to take to the market to be sold.	26:48
Karen Ferguson	Okay, so it would be sort of the end of the year too for that.	26:53
Nettie Donlap	In the fall of the year, in the fall of the year.	26:54
Karen Ferguson	So people would eat and drink?	27:00
Emma Whitfield	Drink and make the lemonades, and they didn't quite have no money to buy no sodas or nothing. But they'd make that lemonade, already got the sugar and buy the lemons and make the lemonade. And then they had a good time with them biscuits and ham and them tea cakes and just have a good time.	27:01
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. And what would people do? Would they just talk, or would they sing or play games?	27:17
Nettie Donlap	Whatever you wanted to do, have the music out there. And the last day of taking in tobacco, a lot of people would have a big eat that day, the last day of harvesting tobacco. It'd be like a picnic around the barn.	27:24
Emma Whitfield	And then quitting time in the winter they would go from house to house and quilt.	27:42
Nettie Donlap	Yes.	27:49
Emma Whitfield	And the men would sit and keep the needles and thread.	27:50
Karen Ferguson	Sorry, what would they do?	27:54
Emma Whitfield	Quilt, quilt, make a quilt. They would quilt. They would piece it up all during the winter, and then they'd put that quilt in and the quilt out. And the menfolks would set, would thread the needle, and they had fireplaces. And my father would have a rod across the fireplace and a coffee pot. And they would drink the coffee, and they had a tea case, and they would quilt and laugh and get that quilt out for a night, before about 10, 11 o'clock. Then the next night, they'd go help the next neighbor. And we children used to follow. At least I was a follower, and I loved it. I would love to go. And I tell my children, that's how I learned. Some of what they do, I said, "Because I used to ask my father and mother, 'Can I go?'"	27:55
Emma Whitfield	They says, "I don't know." I begged them so hard, and they would tell me, "Come on." And I said, "Because I learned about watching men and know from them." And then canning time, they would help one do the can. They would go peel the apple, would be a lot of fruit trees then. And they would help on the peel the apples or pears or peaches, whatever you would have. And they would can them up, and I just sit and watched them, how they be.	28:44
Emma Whitfield	And my children asked me, and they said, "Did Grandmama learn you how to can?"	29:15
Emma Whitfield	I said, "No, I watched men." No, I watched them, because I was nine years old, and my oldest sister showed me how to tell time. My mother had got sick. She was very sick about a year.	29:20
Emma Whitfield	And she would tell me, "At 10 o'clock," she told me, "the long hand went on 12, and the short hand get on 10. Start the fire in the stove." They cooked by wood. And she would come into the house, and she would cook. Well they would all work in the field, and I was nine years old. And my father made me a stool, I was so low, to hang the clothes out or the wash load. And when I got grown, I still had my stool. And I would tell my children, my children come along. I said, "This is my stool. I still love to hang clothes on the clothes line." I was so low, I couldn't reach the clothes. And I said, "My oldest sister learned me out to cook." I says, "Because my mother had two children. One was about three, and one was about two. The baby boy was about two." And I said, "I was nurse, I always nursed," talking about when I was nine years old.	29:34
Emma Whitfield	And I said, "I [indistinct 00:30:21], and I still tend the children. It had gotten [indistinct 00:30:26] the children to tend to, a month old, eight months old and [indistinct 00:30:47] train to the pot." And I said, "And then I [indistinct 00:30:52] until they pass." And I said, "I [indistinct 00:30:55]."	30:20
Emma Whitfield	And so I just learned on my own how to do it, because my first child born, the lady came to my house. She said, "I didn't know you would know how to tend the baby."	30:49
Emma Whitfield	I said, "I tended baby when I was nine years old. Because one of my brothers so big, and he would kick so bad and always had a diaper pin in him. And I would sit on him, turn my back on him, sit on him and pin him up." I said, "Because he was so big, he would kick a lot." And after I was sitting on him, because I was always small when I was sitting on him. And I said, "I tended baby when I was nine years old."	31:07
Karen Ferguson	Right. How about you? Did you have to do a lot of things around the house as well to help your mother or take care of the other children?	31:37
Nettie Donlap	No, I was one of the younger ones.	31:46
Karen Ferguson	Okay, I see, right.	31:47
Nettie Donlap	I ain't never take care of no baby.	31:47
Karen Ferguson	And you were one of the older ones?	31:52
Emma Whitfield	No, I got a sister, 85 years old. [indistinct 00:31:56], and I'm the second child.	31:53
Karen Ferguson	Okay. And was there a difference? Were your older brothers and sisters, did they have to do a lot more work around the house than you would've had to do?	32:00
Nettie Donlap	Yes, because the small children couldn't be cooking and preparing food to be cooked and everything, so we mostly start, get up chips to do the fire and the washing. We washed outside in the big, black pot. That's where you put your dirty clothes and sheets and things to boil in the lye and everything. And we made our bones so thin. You knew about that too? You heard about it.	32:10
Karen Ferguson	Well I've heard about it, yeah.	32:36
Nettie Donlap	And we would pick up the chips to go around the part to do that. And a lot of times we'd help get the wash water up, draw it in building tubs for the washing.	32:39
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. How far away was water from your house? Did you have a well in your yard?	32:53
Nettie Donlap	We had a well in our yard. In the latter years, we had a pump.	32:59
Karen Ferguson	Right. How about you? Did you have water nearby at your house?	33:04
Emma Whitfield	Yeah, we had a pump.	33:10
Karen Ferguson	Yeah, but you still had to haul the water into the house.	33:10
Emma Whitfield	Well from the yard to the tubs and tote in a bucket.	33:11
Karen Ferguson	Okay. Now before, you were talking about cash money. Was there much cash money when you were growing up in your family?	33:21
Emma Whitfield	No.	33:27
Karen Ferguson	No. Where would you buy the groceries that you needed like flour and sugar and that kind of thing?	33:28
Emma Whitfield	The store. My father used to and one of the neighbors, they used to share the corn. Each of them would shuck the corn. And he had something that shelled that corn there and shell the corn and take it to the mill.	33:33
Karen Ferguson	Right, okay, so you'd have your own cornmeal.	33:47
Emma Whitfield	Own cornmeal, but there's flour. There's sugar. And because they made their own lard, because they raised their own hogs. And they got the lye to make the soap. They had some grease that weren't right, and so they take and make soap. And [indistinct 00:34:15] he made his own molasses, raised own cane, just got and split that cane. And then corn out there like that, have a cob. We had showed me children how to strip that fodder down and tie it and stick it back on there, on the stalk. And my father, when it dried, my father would go and hauled it in and have a pole and put pieces on the pole and stack that fodder for the cows for the winter. That's what we raised [indistinct 00:34:57].	33:48
Karen Ferguson	Right, yeah. Now the store that you did go to, though, was it owned by the landlord? Was it a commissary? No, to was just in town?	34:58
Nettie Donlap	Yes.	35:05
Karen Ferguson	Did you have credit there?	35:05
Nettie Donlap	Yes.	35:09
Karen Ferguson	Did you have any choice about where you went to do your shopping?	35:12
Nettie Donlap	No, we didn't have a choice as a rule there while we were sharecropping. The landlord made those arrangements. But when we started the farming for our own land, we always had money to do what we needed to do with it. And we realized that there was always money when all the years that we had sharecropping. And one person tell another one about get on your own farm, and you'll have much more. You're going to go in debt, but you're not getting out of debt where you are. And things picked up like that from word of mouth. One would go and get in debt. He got his own farm and everything. In three or four years, he'd be independent.	35:17
Karen Ferguson	Right. Was this a dream of your family too, to own a farm?	36:04
Emma Whitfield	Yes, he already said that he [indistinct 00:36:12] his own little farm for cotton. Actually he did, and because he lived getting up close to 90. And also I said that his dream and his hope, and so he lived to see that he could own his own little — He wasn't no great big place, but it was something that he could enjoy before he left.	36:10
Nettie Donlap	Excuse me, I need to go to the restroom.	36:36
Karen Ferguson	Now did your family's landlord, did — Wait, you told me about this. Sorry, I'm sorry. What kinds of games did you play as a child?	36:54
Emma Whitfield	We played [indistinct 00:37:13], seek and hide. And we played hopscotch, make a mop. Then you put the mop down and have a piece of glass or something, and we'd numbered it. And we would hop on one foot until we get to the top. And then we'd go in the woods and pull big grapevines for our rope, jump rope.	37:12
Karen Ferguson	Grapevines, okay.	37:32
Emma Whitfield	Mm-hmm, jump rope, and we'd play hide and seek. We'd count to so many numbers, and we would hide. They would go find and would beat. If you would beat one of them back to the spot, we win the game. So that's the game we played.	37:36
Karen Ferguson	Right, yeah. Now were there woods near your house, or were there the forest?	37:53
Emma Whitfield	Yeah, it was kind of close to woods.	37:59
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. Would you play in the woods?	38:02
Emma Whitfield	The woods were kind of [indistinct 00:38:09], and we played in the woods. And from there we — Let me see, what's it called? Tomboy, okay, we take sticks and take cans and put on them sticks. Then you get them little tomboy like that.	38:11
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	38:37
Emma Whitfield	That's the game we played. We didn't have no music and nothing like that to go by, so that's the game we played.	38:38
Karen Ferguson	Now you said, it sounds like the church has been very important to your life. What kinds of things did you do at church as a child?	38:45
Emma Whitfield	Well of course when I growed up to be a teenager on the Sunday school, and I always loved Sunday school. Right up to today I do. I come teach the little ones, little tots. They had little cars from there. I come up [indistinct 00:39:12], and from there I joined the choir, and I stayed in the choir. And about, I'd say, four years ago, the deacons came and talked to me about being a mother of the children. So I told them, "Just let me [indistinct 00:39:33]." You don't take a seat in the church just like that. And I said, and I was coming to the conclusion that I was a good worker in church, and that's what the Lord wanted me to do. So [indistinct 00:39:52] be a mother, so that's been about four years ago. So I still [indistinct 00:40:03], and so I just love the service. And I love the service. I talk to the young youth.	38:52
Emma Whitfield	Best go right out and say I'm going to do something, let the Lord show you what to do. You ask him, "What should I do?" And I think he'll show you what to do, and then you take that step. As one step at a time, you take that step. I've seen a lot of my schoolmates that growed up with me when I take the step, and they stepped back. And I [indistinct 00:40:15] just let the Lord use you and show you the right way. And as you grow older, you grow in grace. And I teach, still talk to the young youth. And the most greatest thing is love. That's the greatest thing in the Bible, is love. [indistinct 00:41:04] love you or not. And so I really just enjoy it.	40:13
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. Now when you were growing up, when you were a girl, looking back, what do you think that your involvement in church activities, how did it help you?	41:13
Emma Whitfield	It helped me to understand as I grew, let me understand how precious life is. And I got this old, and I realized that the step that I see my father and mother that lay before me, that really helped me. And I always said that, if I ever get married, have my own children, I said I want to live the life that my mother and father had lived before them, that they lived before us. And I said just like I said [indistinct 00:42:07]. And they [indistinct 00:42:15] Sunday school and brought us up with church. And I says, "That's the life that I want to life with my children, is [indistinct 00:42:18]." And so that's what I done. And I always said, used to tell my friends, "If I get married," I said, "I want six little children."	41:24
Emma Whitfield	They done said, "How do you know how many you want?"	42:17
Emma Whitfield	I says, "That is my hope." And I tell them right now, the Lord answered my prayers. I did have six children [indistinct 00:42:18]. So one about two months ago, one young girl come to my house. [indistinct 00:42:18] have children. I said, "Lord brought me the children." I said, "He stopped me when my baby born, said that's it." I said I felt like, and I really do deep down in my heart, that he answered my prayer. And I said, "And I stayed together with my — 52 years." Well he passed in the past three years. And I said, "I do really, really think that he really answered my prayers. [indistinct 00:43:24] nice home and six little children." And I says, "Now I got two girls and four boys." And I said, "He gave me another girl. She died." And I said, "I do believe he answer, will answer prayers. He gave me my last child that was the fourth." And I said, "I just didn't believe that he would answer my prayers."	42:17
Karen Ferguson	Right. And when you were growing up, did both your parents go to church? Yes.	43:51
Emma Whitfield	Well my father was a deacon. My mother was on the mother board.	43:54
Karen Ferguson	Okay. Now you were talking a little bit before about school. Now where did you go to school again?	43:56
Emma Whitfield	Fort Barnwell.	44:08
Karen Ferguson	Fort Barnwell. There was a high school there, right?	44:08
Emma Whitfield	Yeah.	44:12
Karen Ferguson	And was this elementary school separate from the high school?	44:12
Emma Whitfield	No, it was all together.	44:15
Karen Ferguson	Right. Did you like school?	44:54
Emma Whitfield	Yeah, I loved it, because here about three years ago I went back to night school. I went to night school for about four years, because when I was going to school, they didn't have this new math, and so I went back to learn how to do this new math. And I [indistinct 00:44:55]. Our teacher was very good. She was very, very good. Her name was Doris, Doris Hayes, and she was a schoolteacher, and she started up this night school. And so there was [indistinct 00:44:56] to the night school, and she was very good at teaching us math, new math. So I just really enjoyed.	44:55
Karen Ferguson	Right. Do you remember any special teachers that you liked while you were going to school when you were a girl?	45:05
Emma Whitfield	Now the one I really did like, her name was Kelly McCort. She living today, she around about 85. And she really was very good, but some teachers, they just didn't take up time with some that learned slow. And [indistinct 00:45:42] some of there work that isn't very good, but she would wait with all of them. She [indistinct 00:45:49].	45:21
Karen Ferguson	Do you remember your teachers ever playing favorites?	45:52
Emma Whitfield	No, I can't remember them playing favorite for one student to another. No, I think everyone I [indistinct 00:46:11] to, they really worked with all of them.	46:05
Karen Ferguson	Now you were able to go to high school.	46:11
Emma Whitfield	No, I didn't reach the high school. That's why come I went back to night school to learn the new math.	46:13
Karen Ferguson	Why didn't you go to high school?	46:18
Emma Whitfield	Well when I was going to school, they didn't go no higher than 11. So okay, when you start [indistinct 00:46:27], I was married with a family. So they didn't have night school then. But later on, just like I said, she started a night school and brought me back.	46:20
Karen Ferguson	Right. Can you tell me a little bit about when you were at home? Who was the boss at home, your mother or your father?	46:45
Emma Whitfield	My father for the leader. Yeah, people do what he says, because a lot of times —	46:51

Nettie Donlap	— our father, and he'll — "Go see what your Mama say." See, they would—	0:01
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	0:08
Nettie Donlap	Yeah.	0:08
Karen Ferguson	Right. Okay. Okay.	0:08
Nettie Donlap	So, that's the way you was brought up.	0:08
Karen Ferguson	Who took care of money at home?	0:10
Nettie Donlap	My father.	0:11
Karen Ferguson	And did he do all the shopping, as well?	0:14
Nettie Donlap	No.	0:17
Karen Ferguson	No?	0:17
Nettie Donlap	Both of them went together. Everyone went together.	0:17
Karen Ferguson	Who disciplined you at home?	0:27
Nettie Donlap	My father and mother.	0:30
Karen Ferguson	Both of them?	0:31
Nettie Donlap	Mm-hmm.	0:32
Karen Ferguson	Who would you rather be disciplined by?	0:33
Nettie Donlap	My mama.	0:35
Karen Ferguson	Why was that?	0:37
Nettie Donlap	Because my mom, she would sit and talk to us. And my father wouldn't talk much. If you needed punish, he'd go right on and give it to you.	0:38
Karen Ferguson	Mm-hmm. Right.	0:46
Nettie Donlap	So, I [indistinct 00:00:50] to him, listen to my mother.	0:49
Karen Ferguson	What kind of people were your parents? Could you tell me a little bit about what was important to them, and what their personalities were like?	0:57
Nettie Donlap	Well, their personality was kind and good. They would see other people when needed. They would go out and help them. I know my mother used to walk miles and miles, she'll find out who all was sick.	1:07
Nettie Donlap	She would walk there and do whatever she had to do: wash, clean after them, or cook for them, is what she would do. And my father, he was the same way.	1:26
Emma Whitfield	He would bring it.	1:35
Nettie Donlap	My father and mother would.	1:35
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	1:35
Nettie Donlap	They're not like people nowadays. People live right beside of one another, and they won't know you were even sick.	1:46
Karen Ferguson	Yeah, yeah. Okay.	1:47
Nettie Donlap	So, along then, the people that were—	1:47
Karen Ferguson	Right. Okay, I guess we've been told to wrap it up now.	1:54
Karen Ferguson	To wrap it up.	1:56

Item Info

Title:

Emma Whitfield (primary interviewee) and Nettie Donlap interview recording, 1993 August 06

Date:

August 6, 1993

Creator:

Contributor:

Ferguson, Karen

Description:

Name: Emma Whitfield; Date of birth: unknown; Place of birth: unknown; Occupation(s): unknown; Residence: New Bern, NC. Name: Nettie Donlap; Date of birth: unknown; Place of birth: unknown; Occupation(s): unknown; Residence: New Bern, NC
Informant ID: 266; Informant ID: 267; Interviewed by: Karen Ferguson.

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 729
5b74104d-1e3d-4c49-b4ec-ba11c73446cf
behindtheveil
btvnc06026
ark:/87924/r4qv3hj73
c2ff2178-d981-4b4a-aa92-953fe1eb214d

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Emma Whitfield (primary interviewee) and Nettie Donlap interview recording, 1993 August 06

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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