Clayton Harris interview recording, 1993 August 03

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Clayton Harris	Always. Always.	0:00
Kara Miles	I'm sure you have.	0:00
Clayton Harris	Lucky to be here today.	0:00
Kara Miles	How old are you?	0:00
Clayton Harris	How are what?	0:00
Kara Miles	How old are you?	0:00
Clayton Harris	How old do I look like I am?	0:00
Kara Miles	Oh, about 30.	0:12
Clayton Harris	Y'all quit joking. Now, you know I know you're joking. I wish it was so. Lord, baby. You wouldn't go back to Virginia. You'd stay down here a while. Yes, sir because you'd be [indistinct 00:00:34] a long time. Yeah, I'm 85.	0:13
Kara Miles	85, okay. Were you born here?	0:40
Clayton Harris	Yes, I was. Yeah, I was born here. Well, out about eight, 10 miles maybe. Just west of here, yeah. Yeah.	0:45
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm, so you lived here all your life?	0:52
Clayton Harris	I been here all my life. All my life. Wouldn't want to go somewheres else, but if I did, I tried to get back that night. Yeah, I'm certainly glad to see y'all out today and [indistinct 00:01:09] to me yesterday, said look for y'all to be out today. And i got to thinking about who he was. Said, "Yes, I'll be up there." As long as I'm living, nothing happen, I'll be right out there.	0:58
Kara Miles	Well, we glad you're here.	1:22
Clayton Harris	Yeah, I'm glad to see y'all too.	1:27
Kara Miles	So, what did your parents do?	1:30
Clayton Harris	What did they do?	1:32
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	1:34
Clayton Harris	Well uh, my old fore-parents is dead; Mother and Father and I had two sisters. One died about three years ago up there in, she was in New Jersey. And I got three brothers, dead. One living, and one sister living. There's three of us now. Three of us now.	1:34
Kara Miles	What did your parents used to do?	2:04
Clayton Harris	Well, my parents about farmed, worked on the farm about all their life. And I worked on the farm most of my life until I got about in my 60s. Then I retired from farming and picked up a job here in yonder, yeah.	2:11
Kara Miles	What did your parents used to farm?	2:30
Clayton Harris	Well they did tobacco, corn, sweet potatoes and white potatoes, gardening, raised chickens. All such as that. Hogs. Way back now, people didn't know nothing about buying meat. Chicken and eggs, they raised them. Yeah, but now all that's done away with.	2:32
Kara Miles	Yeah, is that the same kind of stuff that you farmed when you started farming?	2:58
Clayton Harris	That's right. That's right, yep. And I first got married, well me and my wife, we tended garden, raised chickens, one or two pigs. There was only just two of us then. So, we got along good. Got along good, yeah. You know, people were healthier back yonder than what they are now. Eat what they raised. There's so much chemicals in this stuff now, poisoning stuff. So, I think that's caused a lot of cancer.	3:01
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm, probably so.	4:09
Clayton Harris	I really do, yeah. I certainly do. Yeah, I come from a long ways. I know little bit about who was there.	4:09
Kara Miles	You know a little bit about what?	4:09
Clayton Harris	About who was there.	4:09
Kara Miles	Oh yeah? Tell me about that.	4:09
Clayton Harris	Yeah, I know who. I know something about who was times, but I got along good then. And you know, it's tough back there. You don't know about it, but you heard about it.	4:09
Kara Miles	Yeah, I heard about it.	4:09
Clayton Harris	You heard about it. Well, you just about heard right. Lord, I got along good. I got along good anyway, tell you the truth about it.	4:09
Kara Miles	So we're talking about the Depression here? You said during Hoover's time?	4:09
Clayton Harris	Hoover's time, yeah. Well, some of them raised gardens and something to eat, and some of them didn't. Just like they do now, but they had a job—I forgot now what they call that job. Just that cleaning out roads and ditches and stuff like that. And paid them a little, but didn't pay them much. Well, in fact what you bought didn't cost much. No, you can get meat and that, 10, 15 cents a pound. Now it costs you a dollar a pound. And people lived pretty good.	4:13
Clayton Harris	They just did as they do now. I don't see much difference. I ate good then. Yeah, I really did. Uh huh, but a whole lot of them had it tough. A lot of them had it tough, yeah.	4:52
Kara Miles	Did your parents own the land that they farmed?	5:13
Clayton Harris	No, they didn't. They just owned the house and rented the farm. Yeah, rented the farm. And stuff sold pretty good. Well, just like I said, what you bought didn't cost much. And what you had to sell, you didn't get much. So that's just the way it went. I wore good clothes then. I ain't see no difference much.	5:18
Kara Miles	Did they rent the land from a White man?	5:48
Clayton Harris	White man, that's right. Yeah, rented from a White man.	5:50
Kara Miles	How about you when you had your farm? Did you rent your land?	5:57
Clayton Harris	I rented mine too. Yeah, I rented mine for about 30 years. I wish I'd have quit farming before I did stop.	6:00
Kara Miles	Do what now?	6:17
Clayton Harris	I wished I'd a stopped before I did, but you don't never know. I thought get along good, and in fact, the way everything was, I was getting along good. But my wife was tickled that I stopped farming. Tickled to death.	6:19
Kara Miles	That made her happy?	6:37
Clayton Harris	Made her happy.	6:38
Kara Miles	Why?	6:41
Clayton Harris	Because it looked like we were farming and then couldn't make much, couldn't clear much nothing. Had plenty to eat and wear, but didn't have much cash leftover. No. And so, everything worked out all right up until today. I'm still here today. I've seen many one go on. Lord blessed me. He keeping me here for some good cause or another. One thing, to see you.	6:41
Kara Miles	Tell me, do you remember your grandparents?	7:24
Clayton Harris	Some of them. I remember my grandmama. I don't remember none of them. I remember my daddy's mama's daddy and my father's daddy; I don't remember them, but now, their mother, which was my grandmother, I know them well. I know them well, yeah.	7:25
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm, what do you remember about them?	7:49
Clayton Harris	Well, all I know they were fine people and good to get along with. So, just helped raise we children and we always get along good together. Got along good together.	7:51
Kara Miles	Do you remember them ever talking about their lives? Like, maybe about their childhood or—?	8:10
Clayton Harris	Well, once in a while they'd talk about the way they come along.	8:20
Kara Miles	Okay, what would they say?	8:21
Clayton Harris	Yeah, and the way they fared and everything. And they got along good, from [indistinct 00:08:29]. They was what you might say slavery, some of them come along in slavery time. And they got along good with the rest of the slaves. Yeah, they didn't beat them, nothing like that. And some of them took a beating, you know. Yeah, done just like the police, so I heard, but I didn't hear mine speak against nothing like that. No, no. Said they got along all right.	8:22
Kara Miles	Were they all from this area too?	9:03
Clayton Harris	Well, they were born around in this area, yeah. Yeah, they were born around this area.	9:05
Kara Miles	So what kind of things did you used to do for fun when you were growing up?	9:16
Clayton Harris	Ma'am?	9:19
Kara Miles	What kind of things did you used to do for fun? What kind of things did you used to play as a child?	9:20
Clayton Harris	Jump rope, play ball, play hiding. All such as that. We was running children and especially nudging and tagging one another. You heard about that?	9:28
Kara Miles	Uh huh.	9:46
Clayton Harris	Yeah, "I got your tag!" And it's just having a good time. Just having a good time, yeah. Now, these little children don't know nothing about tagging.	9:46
Kara Miles	I used to play tag.	9:58
Clayton Harris	You did?	10:08
Kara Miles	Uh huh.	10:08
Clayton Harris	Well, you know something about it.	10:08
Kara Miles	Yeah. Did you used to have to work on the farm when you were growing up?	10:08
Clayton Harris	Started working I was eight years old. That's right. Ten years old, I was priming tobacco.	10:13
Kara Miles	Wow.	10:28
Clayton Harris	Just like a grown man. Yeah, I been used to working all my life and didn't never go hungry. I always left to work and tried to have something. I had [indistinct 00:10:39] stealing and running around like children right now. Well, I couldn't. Not and stayed with my parents. That, I couldn't. But parents would beat you back then. Now, they didn't promise you, and they didn't tell you about two times what to do. And you'd better do it that second time. You wish you hadn't done it.	10:30
Kara Miles	Both the mother and the father?	11:05
Clayton Harris	Both of them.	11:06
Kara Miles	Both of them?	11:07
Clayton Harris	Well, you know, up until today, that's the honest way to raise children. If the mother going to beating one, then the father take after her, that ain't raising them. No, if you run to the daddy and tell about a beating, make him go on back. Says you're doing it just right. That's the way that I—I done raised up but two, a girl and a boy. I ain't never said a word about my wife beating them, and that wasn't much. And she didn't never say nothing about I'm beating them because that wasn't much. All I do was just say something to them, holler at them and that was it.	11:08
Clayton Harris	Up until today, they respect me and their mama. And one of them lives right up the road and she works all the time now. The person she's working for her for here two to three months ago he died here last week. And she don't get out a job maybe one or two days and nights, and they call her right back to the hospital to go there and sit with some of the sick people. Or in town there, sit with some of them. [indistinct 00:12:29] going at night or stay somewhere there and come back home. Then they done called her back again last night. Everybody likes the way she do it—not right, but she goes nice and she knows how to treat people. We raised her like that and while you were at school, they raised you.	11:52
Clayton Harris	And so I'm not saying, of course she's my daughter, but she's just nice. And my son, he's in D.C. He taught school two sessions and the children got so rough and so he give it up. Now, before he took that job, teaching job, I believe he had a government job and give it up, went teaching. Was right back at that same job. If he'd have stayed on it, he'd a done retired. Yeah, he's 50. So, that's just the way it goes. So, I been getting along pretty good. I ain't no complaints. No complaints.	12:52
Kara Miles	Okay, you said you had a sister that lived in New Jersey?	13:39
Clayton Harris	She was, yeah. That's the one that died about three years ago.	13:48
Kara Miles	How long had she been living there?	13:52
Clayton Harris	Let's see, about 12, 14 years. She was born and raised around here and then the man that she married, he come down here and got acquainted with her. Come down here with my mama's brother, and they were good friends. They were all the Williams and they got together and got married, and then got along good. He was a fine fellow, to tell you the truth, and they got along good. Now, he died last—I believe the first of this year he died. Just as fine a fellow as I ever met. That's the truth.	13:53
Kara Miles	Did you ever visit up north?	14:41
Clayton Harris	No, I didn't. Seem like I just didn't care for it. I go around, fuss with other places. I never go up north. I go about to Greensboro and down south, and go around.	14:43
Kara Miles	Where down south would you go?	15:01
Clayton Harris	Down there about South Carolina. A little on the other side, just traveling around. Seems like I just didn't have no mind to even go up north. Ain't have a whole lot of people up there too, and my wife got two brothers up there now. One died four or five years ago, up there, but they left around here. They were born and raised around here so they left and went up north.	15:04
Clayton Harris	I ain't never cared too much about going to places I couldn't go around by myself. Have somebody go and show me which way to go. I'll go by myself. No, I used to go to D.C to see my son. I say, "Shucks. If I could, I'd come back the same day." Yes, sir. I'd a come back the same day.	15:29
Kara Miles	Did a lot of your brothers and sisters move up north? Or just that one sister?	16:02
Clayton Harris	Just that one. And reason she went there is because she married a man from up there. That's why she went there.	16:11
Kara Miles	What kind of things would you do when you went to South Carolina, or to Greensboro?	16:17
Clayton Harris	Just riding around. Me and a White fellow, policeman in [indistinct 00:16:37]. We left here one Saturday and came back that Sunday and just riding around. I mean, he had his wife was down there; brought her back.	16:36
Kara Miles	You said this was a White fellow?	17:05
Clayton Harris	Yeah, policeman. Oh, I stayed with the law. Stayed with the law all the time.	17:05
Kara Miles	Why?	17:05
Clayton Harris	Get on the good side of them. Oh, yeah.	17:05
Kara Miles	Okay, so you were friends with policemen.	17:05
Clayton Harris	Just about all of them, and there's some rough ones been around here too. Got along with them good. Got along with them all right.	17:05
Kara Miles	You said there were some rough ones?	17:26
Clayton Harris	Yes, rubbish ones, mean ones. Yeah, we called a couple people snake, chief [indistinct 00:17:27]. I lived right across in front of it and I was [indistinct 00:17:27]. Crazy, yeah, you better save me a drink of that liquor in the morning.	17:32
Clayton Harris	And my daughter, she was about three years old and he had a granddaughter just about the same age as my daughter. And my daughter would slip over, stay right close and go there to his house to play with his granddaughter. And they'd be eating supper and put her at the table with them, they're all eating together and my wife would be out looking for her, calling her. Having dinner, once come to the door. "Eva, what you looking for?"	17:32
Clayton Harris	"Looking for my daughter." "She's over here eating supper. You ain't got to get her now. I'll see she gets home once she gets through eating." They would go back in the house and sit down. Eventually finish eating and get ready, they'd see she'd come out there on the road, come on home. That's right.	18:03
Kara Miles	It seems like you had good relations among people.	18:21
Clayton Harris	Well, I ain't bragging, but I got along with them. Let's see. One night, Wednesday night, Saturday night, that car load of them [indistinct 00:18:38] to the theater. They used to have a theater here in Vansboro, didn't have one then. They'd go there three nights of the week and my boss man's wife had had a stroke, and she was afflicted and that was her enjoyment. And I'd have a carload and we'd go.	18:43
Clayton Harris	Sometimes right now, there's one of them senior while her daddy used to be mayor of town here in Vansboro. She'd see me down the street or in the store. Walk up to me and hug me, "Just to say we had some good old times way back yonder." I said, "We sure did." I say, "I wished we could have them now. Yeah, I have enjoyed myself. Yep, wish I could call back. I can't. That's something you can't get back. No, you can't get it back.	18:55
Kara Miles	Well, tell me about those days.	19:32
Clayton Harris	About them days?	19:36
Kara Miles	Yeah.	19:37
Clayton Harris	Well, they were just good days and just like I said, I stayed in with them. Haul them around, usually call them, they got ready. My boss man car, sometimes keep it all night. Take it back the next morning. When I came to the show or even to the theater, they'd give me money to do the show. I'd run by our theater and see what was on, keep on going. About five miles out in the country there, acquainted some girls out there. They was fair. Well you seen them across the street. They look like White girls. And so we'd say, "Boy, you talk White about now." Soon the boy would call and send of them down. I got even went over there and got acquainted with them. Lord, we had all the fun I wanted. All I wanted. Some of them boys turned me up.	19:38
Kara Miles	What happened?	20:45
Clayton Harris	Well, I was married anyhow, some of the boys were trying to do it with them and he couldn't. I had that blocked out. He told the old folks over there I was married. Then they told—and there was a school teacher going with her. Yeah, a principal. Yeah drove a Chevrolet. Yep, and I told her I'd wait for him and her man told her, he heard about I was doing that with her again, he going to put her out. And wasn't two weeks before he, the fellow that was going with him, he passed and saw. Kept all of her house and told her.	20:47
Clayton Harris	Carried on and put her out. And I saw her the next Saturday—it was on a Friday night. I saw her on Saturday. Say, "I told you he'd go on home and tell my daddy and mama." I said, "Did he, yeah?" "They said he going to put me out. You know what you doing down there. Now, what we going to do about it?" I said, "Well, I got to go home, get it straightened out and I'll be back." Then I come back, I saw across the street, she turned her head. Wouldn't even speak to me. That killed it. I didn't go there no more. I said, "Leave my wife? You think I'm crazy?"	21:33
Kara Miles	Did your wife ever find out about any of this?	22:17
Clayton Harris	No, but you know how people is. After all, somebody—let me tell you something. The Bible plain will tell you, watch your foe and your friends won't hurt you. No, watch your friends and your foe won't hurt you. That doesn't mean your enemies. Your friends are the ones trying to hurt you. My bosom friend, I thought, told about it. That's right. You imagine, you know, I denied it. I wouldn't have thought he'd a done it.	22:18
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm, why do you think he did that?	22:49
Clayton Harris	Well, just mouthy. Just some people can't keep nothing. I know when I was singing, many times I'd go to see a girl and to another boy's girl. He'd say, "You seen such and such? Well, he left with her." "I don't know. I ain't seen him." "I bet she just left my house."	22:54
Clayton Harris	"No, I ain't seen him." I ain't never told news on nobody. Plenty White people tell me their secrets. My boss man, we'd get off the side, sit down and talk. He'd tell me about his family affairs and everything. That's the one that his wife had a stroke inflicted. And he said, "Now, Clayton." I said, "Yes, sir."	23:10
Clayton Harris	"I know he had two boys with her and I know them and my boys was good friends, especially one of them. And what we talk, you keep it to yourself." I said, "Mr. Donner, you ain't got to worry about that." Tell me anything in the world about his life and what he did wrong, and everything. Seems he just had to talk to somebody, you know? I ain't tell him about nothing. And you get along a whole lot better with it. Tend to your own business. My daddy and mama always told we children, "See and don't see. Hear and don't hear." They said, "You'll get along good and live longer." And I always done that.	23:39
Clayton Harris	I ain't never seen no fun in telling news, no how. I ain't never seen no fun in it. I certainly ain't. Good Lord, gracious. This day and time and on, back and on about all the time. Everything, the whole history of the world and of life. People tell news and well, there's some people got news anyhow. I ain't never got no fun out of it.	24:15
Kara Miles	Did your parents have good relations with White people like you did?	24:45
Clayton Harris	Oh, yeah. That they did. We lived around it all our life. Yep. Yeah, lived around it all our life.	24:48
Kara Miles	Did you live around Black people too? Or was it pretty much all White that lived around you.	25:02
Clayton Harris	Yeah, we lived all around both.	25:05
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	25:05
Clayton Harris	Both, yeah. I'd rather live around White folks and not to live around some Colored. That's right.	25:05
Kara Miles	Why is that?	25:18
Clayton Harris	Well, they ain't tend to your business. They ain't trying to tell your business and be nosy. Black folks, you live around them, some of them—not all of them now, but some of them, all they want to do is just find out a little something and they'll put more to it. That's right.	25:19
Kara Miles	So when you were growing up, did you used to play with the White kids? The White children?	25:39
Clayton Harris	Oh, yeah. Yeah, got along all right. Segregation passed and I ain't seen much difference. Way back then, I ain't seen much difference.	25:59
Kara Miles	You didn't see much difference?	25:59
Clayton Harris	No, I sure didn't. Always got along with White folks. Always.	25:59
Kara Miles	You mean, you didn't see much difference between now and then? Or what do you mean you didn't see much difference?	26:03
Clayton Harris	I didn't see much difference from now and then.	26:18
Kara Miles	Okay.	26:18
Clayton Harris	I wouldn't get with them anyhow. That's [indistinct 00:26:19]. Didn't bother me none. Didn't bother me a bit.	26:19
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	26:20
Clayton Harris	One color looks the same to me. Yep.	26:21
Kara Miles	But you didn't go to school with them and things then?	26:27
Clayton Harris	No, no. No, didn't go to school with them, no. Rode with them, worked with them, all that.	26:35
Kara Miles	Was there a certain age at which Black children and White children would stop playing together?	26:41
Clayton Harris	Now, explain that again.	26:47
Kara Miles	Was there a certain age, like when you got a certain age, did Black children and White children stop playing together? Or did you always—	26:49
Clayton Harris	We always went together, played together. The children played together and when they got of age, they'd go around together and be friends with one another. Once in a while, you'd find a rubbish one. Well, that way now. There's some now act better than others. And me and somebody were talking maybe not long ago. You'd be going in the store and there's a White man coming along, hold the door for you. You go on in, "Thank you." Black man come in, hold the door, you go on in, don't even look back. Yeah, once in a while, one will thank you.	26:57
Clayton Harris	But just more White men will thank you for holding the door. I took notice of it. I'll take notice of things like that, and I always the one been noticing. That's right. So, that's just the way it goes, and so we'll be along the [indistinct 00:27:58]. Some good ones, some bad ones. Some act better than others. That's always been.	27:38
Kara Miles	What kind of things would the bad ones do?	28:08
Clayton Harris	Well, some now they'd have a little fight, argument, something like that. That wasn't too often. Nah, wasn't too often.	28:12
Kara Miles	You talked about the rough policemen. What would rough policemen be like?	28:25
Clayton Harris	The White one too?	28:41
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	28:41
Clayton Harris	Well, they'd do all right. They do all right, but if you done wrong, well they'd lock you up. Soon turn you out. Somebody would stand your bond. Bond wasn't much, about $100, $150. The biggest thing they'd lock them up for way back there was getting drunk. Yeah, getting drunk.	28:41
Kara Miles	You talked about the boss man. Who was that? Who was your boss man?	29:01
Clayton Harris	He was a Simpson, John Simpson.	29:07
Kara Miles	And was he the man who owned the land?	29:11
Clayton Harris	Yeah, that's right. Yeah, he the man that owned the land. Yeah. That's right.	29:12
Kara Miles	And you paid him rent every month or how did that work?	29:21
Clayton Harris	No tenant until the fall comes. Just like it is now. Kept his warehouse, he had to grade it. Catch his warehouse and set it. And if you had anything, you had to pay your debts first. After you paid your debts, then what was left, your part, he'd give it to you. Yeah, that's right. That's the way that was.	29:23
Kara Miles	Was he honest with your money?	29:51
Clayton Harris	Oh, yeah. He was honest, yeah.	29:54
Kara Miles	Did you know of situations where the boss man wasn't honest?	29:55
Clayton Harris	Well, there was some of them weren't and some was, yeah. But mine was always honest. Yeah, he was honest. What was coming to you, why he'd give it to you.	29:59
Kara Miles	Was that the same family who had rented land to your parents?	30:19
Clayton Harris	Now, what'd you say?	30:21
Kara Miles	Was that the same family that had rented land to your parents?	30:21
Clayton Harris	No. He a different one. Different one after I got out under my parents. Then I went farming for myself, then a different man. How many brothers and sisters you have?	30:21
Kara Miles	One. I have one brother.	30:21
Clayton Harris	One brother?	30:21
Kara Miles	Yep.	30:21
Clayton Harris	And you the oldest one?	30:21
Kara Miles	Yep.	30:21
Clayton Harris	You the baby.	30:21
Kara Miles	No, I'm the oldest. He's younger than me.	30:53
Clayton Harris	Oh, he's younger. Well, same thing. Both of you babies. What does he do?	30:54
Kara Miles	He's still in high school.	31:00
Clayton Harris	Well, he's still in high school?	31:04
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	31:04
Clayton Harris	Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Y'all are young. What, you in your late twenties?	31:04
Kara Miles	I'm in my early twenties.	31:11
Clayton Harris	You in your thirties?	31:14
Kara Miles	No, 22.	31:15
Clayton Harris	22?	31:16
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	31:17
Clayton Harris	Well, I didn't think you was 30. I knew you were young. I didn't know. Your face tell you're young.	31:18
Kara Miles	Well, that's good. Glad I look young.	31:34
Clayton Harris	You sure do. You sure do.	31:34
Kara Miles	What school did you go to?	31:37
Clayton Harris	Craven County.	31:39
Kara Miles	It was called Craven County School?	31:45
Clayton Harris	Yeah.	31:47
Kara Miles	How long did you go to school?	31:50
Clayton Harris	I went about 10 years old. Well, I tell you way back yonder, children would go to school some days and some days you had to stop and work on the farm. Yeah, and children didn't go to school like they do now. No, your parents farmed and you had to stay home and [indistinct 00:32:33] now, they had to come out of school. Pick cotton, all such as that.	31:56
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm, so when would you go to school?	32:32
Clayton Harris	Well, you'd go sometimes two or three days through the week. About two days you'd have to stay home, work on the farm.	32:33
Kara Miles	Did your teachers understand that? Did teachers get mad at you when you didn't come to school?	32:43
Clayton Harris	No, they knowed about it. Yeah, they knowed about it.	32:46
Kara Miles	So, did all your brothers and sisters have to stay out too?	32:55
Clayton Harris	No, just the oldest ones.	32:58
Kara Miles	Okay, and you were one of the older ones?	33:03
Clayton Harris	I happened to be one of the oldest ones. And most of them go'ed on. The Lord's keeping me here for some good reason or another.	33:05
Kara Miles	Yeah. So you stopped going to school when you were 10? Is that what you said?	33:16
Clayton Harris	Well, I didn't stop, or just say altogether stop. I stopped because I had to, but I was in and out. In and out.	33:27
Kara Miles	Okay, okay. What was the school building like?	33:28
Clayton Harris	Now, what'd you say?	33:54
Kara Miles	What was the school building like?	33:54
Clayton Harris	It's just wood building.	33:55
Kara Miles	Wood?	33:56
Clayton Harris	Yeah, back yonder we ain't know about no brick buildings. No, and that's the school right out yonder, isn't it? They burnt the wood building down, this was down the road, and built that one. Then they moved out there the farm life school. And build the West Craven High School about five miles from here. Yep.	33:59
Kara Miles	But when you went, it was a wood building.	34:31
Clayton Harris	Oh, boy. That's the truth and you had to go in—Now, I'll show you the difference. Had to go in the woods and cut wood. Get the lighter, start a fire the next morning. It was tough back then. That isn't no joke.	34:39
Clayton Harris	Then I don't know, we didn't see no difference. With the toughness, you didn't know it. You'd go home, you had to tow in wood and cut wood. Same thing after the school. All of it went along together.	34:50
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm. How many rooms did your school have?	35:06
Clayton Harris	It had, let's see, 1st, 2nd. 3rd. 4th. I believe it had five rooms. I don't think it went no higher than 5th grade, I don't think. No, I believe this might've been to the 6th. I don't know. Been so long now, I don't know.	35:10
Kara Miles	Okay, was there a high school?	35:33
Clayton Harris	No. Now they done away with it, burned it down. That's when they built that one out there. And then the building over there, the old West Craven, now the high school's over there. Yeah.	35:37
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm, but when you were coming along, there wasn't a high school?	35:49
Clayton Harris	No, nothing about a high school.	35:50
Kara Miles	Was there somewhere that people could go if they wanted to go to high school? Where would they go?	36:00
Clayton Harris	They'd have to go to Kinston. Yeah, that's right here. Kinston. I remember that. Yeah.	36:06
Kara Miles	Would they have to stay in Kinston, or would they come home everyday?	36:15
Clayton Harris	Most of them stayed there. They didn't have much way to travel.	36:17
Kara Miles	How would they get to Kinston?	36:18
Clayton Harris	Well, there was a few of the friends around had cars. Yeah, a friend of mine, he went with a girl and left here. Went to Kinston and he had a car, Chevrolet. Once in a while he'd go up there on Sunday to see her and get me to ride up there with him. Yep. Yeah, get me to ride up there with him. Now the girl's dead and he's dead.	36:31
Kara Miles	Did you used to like school?	37:08
Clayton Harris	Me?	37:10
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	37:10
Clayton Harris	I liked it pretty good. Liked it pretty good.	37:11
Kara Miles	What did you like about it?	37:15
Clayton Harris	Be out there with the children. That was the biggest. Yeah, I enjoyed it and playing ball, baseball. I like baseball. Like baseball.	37:17
Kara Miles	Were there any Black baseball teams?	37:34
Clayton Harris	Oh yeah. Yeah.	37:37
Kara Miles	Were they here in Vanceboro?	37:37
Clayton Harris	Yeah, we had a team here and we had one in Fort Vaughan. It was up this way in Epworth. And most of the Friday evenings, we'd go up there and play them. The next Friday, they'd come down and play us. Yeah, changed it around. I enjoyed it because I don't most of the pitching. I liked it.	37:41
Kara Miles	What was your team's name?	38:12
Clayton Harris	What you say?	38:12
Kara Miles	What was your name, the team's name?	38:14
Clayton Harris	Well, didn't have no special name back then. They didn't know. No, just—	38:18
Kara Miles	And you played on Friday evenings?	38:22
Clayton Harris	Friday evenings.	38:24
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm, did people have to pay to come?	38:25
Clayton Harris	No, they, most of them didn't have a truck. They had cars and ride over there. Yeah, I enjoyed it.	38:32
Kara Miles	How old were you when you started playing baseball on the team?	38:45
Clayton Harris	About 10 years old. On up to 12, and all that.	38:49
Kara Miles	How long did you continue to play?	38:56
Clayton Harris	We played, we come out of school and then kept on. We had a team going after kept out of school. Boys out there, just about grown boys. Most the time on the Saturday evenings, when they weren't working, you know? Go out there and play. Another team coming up from different places around close, and play, and just enjoyed it.	39:00
Kara Miles	What other kind of things did you used to do for fun? Like, when you were a teenager?	39:30
Clayton Harris	When I was a teenager?	39:34
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	39:34
Clayton Harris	Like, working. Just like working or anything?	39:34
Kara Miles	What kind of things did you used to do for fun?	39:41
Clayton Harris	Oh, fun. What you say?	39:46
Kara Miles	For fun.	39:46
Clayton Harris	Fighting?	39:47
Kara Miles	For fun. What kind of things—	39:47
Clayton Harris	Oh, fun!	39:49
Kara Miles	Yeah, fun.	39:49
Clayton Harris	Oh, I don't know. Just playing ball and I don't know. Different things.	39:53
Kara Miles	Did you used to court?	40:06
Clayton Harris	Lord, yeah.	40:07
Kara Miles	Tell me about that.	40:11
Clayton Harris	Well, I kept more than one. I ain't put all my conversation into one girl. They'd get after me about it. I'd deny it. Just left one, "Where you been? How come you're so late?" "Well, late leaving home." "I know where you been. Been seeing such and such."	40:17
Clayton Harris	"Lord, no I ain't just left there." Oh, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed myself, but you go to see one two or three mile, four or five miles. You had to walk and you didn't mind it back there then. Just like going to church. You come to church, the road's full of people walking. You enjoyed it. You don't know nothing about it, but you heard about it. Yeah, you enjoyed it.	40:37
Clayton Harris	I go from home to church, then I could go down this way. Just say I go down this way, leave here and go this way about 3/4 miles and be at my house. After church let out at night, no! Boy with a girl lived up the road about five miles. I'd look back there and just think to myself, I was crazy and then I'd say to myself, "No, that's the only way you had to go," so I enjoyed it. Come on back home at night and get up and see them the next morning and then had to take out a barrel of tobacco, and put in tobacco that day. And didn't mind a bit.	41:13
Clayton Harris	Get tired dealing that day, pulling tobacco and them I'm going to stay home tonight. About 3:00, 4:00, get to looking at the sun. Look like [indistinct 00:42:08] better. Yeah, I be all right. I got to go tonight. That means we are going tonight. Just as soon as I quit work, put my mule up, horse, and feed it. Lord, you take a bath and change clothes. Mama say, "You two come on, eat your supper. I ain't hungry." I'd eat and come back, gone. Had to go see that girl. I was full. Thinking about her filled me up.	42:00
Clayton Harris	Come about 11:00, 12:00 that night, going in the kitchen. She said, "You children come in late like that, eating, you get old it's going to be against your stomach." And I don't know [indistinct 00:42:59] but I, well for some years back had ulcers. Ulcerative stomach. Maybe you heard about it. Went to the doctor, he doctored me up. Felt good after the doctor. Went to him again, "Mr. Harris?"	42:33
Clayton Harris	"Yes, sir." He lived over here in New Bern. He said, "Now, I can fix you so you'll be feeling good for a few days. And I can operate on you and you'll be a well man for ulcers the rest of your life." I said, "When can you operate on me?" He told me put it off seven days and gave me a little white tablet. I never will forget it. I took that tablet, felt just as good and so I went to him, "I wouldn't take no operation. As good as you getting along, people don't know how you getting along." I ain't pay it no mind.	43:16
Clayton Harris	I was always whatever I saw I wanted to do, and I thought the right, I'd go ahead and do it. I didn't want no advice. He operated on me, that's been 30 years ago.	43:51
Kara Miles	Wow.	44:06
Clayton Harris	Can eat anything I want to. Lemon bars, didn't hurt me a bit. Now, he knew what he was talking about. No, sir. This ulcerative stomach had a whole lot of people right now. I got some people with it now. It's bad. I couldn't even drink cold water. No, thinking about drinking cold water with it.	44:07
Kara Miles	Tell me about when a person would get sick back a long time ago, were there like, home medicines? Were there home remedies that people—	44:35
Clayton Harris	Well, now some of them did. And some don't, just like it is nowadays. There ain't many of these people now who want a home remedy. No, sir. And this old time medicine, liniment and alcohol. I keep all that stuff. I has sometimes arthritis get in my shoulders, neck. I got a tablet from the drugstore. I take that, 10 minutes it'll clear it up. But I remember, back yonder when I was a kid, if you break your leg or sprain it, they get vinegar, clay. Mix it together and make a poultice out of it, and band your leg up. They didn't carry you to no doctor. I known it to be done.	44:43
Clayton Harris	And so, now if you sprain your ankle or break your leg, they can't get you to the hospital fast enough. So that's just the way things changed out from back yonder and to what it is now. I know plenty of them that sprained their leg or ankle, first thing they do is go get some clay, vinegar. Mix it together, put some in a cloth and band it around your leg right tight. And they'd soon be all right. But no, don't tell that to people. People don't like that, they'll laugh at you. Yes, now they'll laugh at you.	45:46
Kara Miles	Are there any other home remedies that you remember?	46:26
Clayton Harris	Oh, I remember a whole lot of them. Just liniment and rubbing. And well, that's about the base of that. Clay, band a leg up for broke leg, sprained leg. And the—	46:28

Clayton Harris	You can do it right now. I tasted that home remedy stuff right now, and rubbing in liniment. I keep some liniment, two different kinds to rub in it, and it does good too. It does good. There ain't nothing beat some of these home remedies. There ain't nothing. You can't beat them. My wife, she don't believe in much of it. It's nothing new. When pain hits, she's ready to go to the doctor. I ain't like that. When I go to the doctor, I go to [indistinct 00:00:41], but little stuff like that. Sometimes my neck gets to [indistinct 00:00:46] and the doctor will rub it, and I have some neighbors that will rub it, and you take half a tablet and it clears right up.	0:04
Kara Miles	So, your parents believed in home remedies? Did your parents believe in that?	0:52
Clayton Harris	Oh, they did. My pastor believes in it. They did because you couldn't get a doctor every day, and in fact, honestly, you had to go to the doctors, then there's horse and buggy, and mule [indistinct 00:01:11]. It was 10 miles before you could get to a doctor. I know about that. That's right, and a whole lot of these were home remedies my parents used back yonder, especially [indistinct 00:01:25], four or five drops, a little sugar for your stomachache. And then, it done good. Sure.	0:58
Kara Miles	Did you ever have to go to the doctor when you were a child, when you were young?	1:36
Clayton Harris	No.	1:39
Kara Miles	Was there ever an occasion that they took you to the doctor?	1:40
Clayton Harris	I can't remember. I reckon I did. Of course, Mom and Daddy took their children. Some of them had a hard time of teething, and sometimes they have to take them to the doctor, and I had a little brother. But, he had spasms. They called them fits from teething. Yep. They had to carry him to the doctor, and so that's just the way it was.	1:44
Kara Miles	Was there a Black doctor in Vanceboro?	2:15
Clayton Harris	No, no, no.	2:17
Kara Miles	No?	2:17
Clayton Harris	All White.	2:18
Kara Miles	So, you had to go to a White doctor?	2:21
Clayton Harris	White doctor. There were two in Vanceboro.	2:21
Kara Miles	Two? Okay.	2:21
Clayton Harris	Yeah, we had two in there, a Doctor Newton and Doctor Potts. They were good doctors too.	2:21
Kara Miles	I wanted to ask you another question about school. What was the White school like? Did you ever see the White school?	2:37
Clayton Harris	The what?	2:43
Kara Miles	Did you ever see the White school, the school the White children went to?	2:45
Clayton Harris	No.	2:49
Kara Miles	No?	2:50
Clayton Harris	No, I didn't.	2:50
Kara Miles	Did they walk to school?	2:53
Clayton Harris	Yeah. Yeah, way back yonder, and then they had to walk to school, rain or shine, cold, snow.	2:59
Kara Miles	Yeah.	3:02
Clayton Harris	I have been to school and skated on ice, and then you'd come to a little place in the road. We didn't know about no hard surfaced road way back there in Vanceboro, that's [indistinct 00:03:17]. You come to a pond in the road, you had to get around it, and we children would get on that and skate on it and fall down. We just enjoyed the walking. Well, that's all we're used to then, and so we just enjoyed it. Yeah.	3:04
Kara Miles	Did you use to go to church as a child?	3:43
Clayton Harris	Yes, I did. My parents went to church all the time. My mother, she was a mother in church, but Daddy, he was a deacon.	3:45
Kara Miles	Oh, okay.	3:53
Clayton Harris	I mean, long enough I stayed on them. I went to church 15, 16 years old. You're glad that you better not be hanging around [indistinct 00:04:05]. You better get up boy and go to church. That's right.	3:56
Kara Miles	Did you like going to church?	4:09
Clayton Harris	I liked it right on.	4:10
Kara Miles	Huh?	4:10
Clayton Harris	I liked it up to today.	4:13
Kara Miles	Okay.	4:14
Clayton Harris	Yeah, I liked it up until today. I was one of the trustees. I still like it.	4:15
Kara Miles	What did you use to like about church?	4:23
Clayton Harris	Well, as long as you were in church, you were in nothing else, you were in no danger of being in fusses or fights, or nothing like that. And, you just should be going to church. You should be doing it. I enjoyed hearing the preacher preach, and good singing. I love to hear that now. I still like good church.	4:27
Kara Miles	What church did you go to?	4:56
Clayton Harris	Queen Chapel. My regular Sundays, there was a second Sunday, full Sunday. That's right out of town. The church is right out of town.	4:58
Kara Miles	All right.	5:21
Clayton Harris	And, I lived on down the road. You're about to see my house in there.	5:21
Kara Miles	Okay.	5:21
Clayton Harris	I did not fully go to church. I just liked to go. I liked to hear the preacher preach, especially a good preacher, Black only.	5:21
Kara Miles	Back then, back when you were growing up and you were young, did church meet every Sunday?	5:32
Clayton Harris	Well, different churches.	5:37
Kara Miles	Okay.	5:50
Clayton Harris	They would have a preacher there this Sunday, and the next Sunday it would be at another church, running around, and then he would come back to your church again. Yeah.	5:50
Kara Miles	Would you go to a different church if your church wasn't meeting then?	5:54
Clayton Harris	Most of the time, I went to a different church just like I do now. I still do.	5:58
Kara Miles	Okay.	6:11
Clayton Harris	I go to a different church now.	6:11
Kara Miles	Did you go to Sunday school?	6:12
Clayton Harris	I used to. I used to be a Sunday school teacher, but I don't go now. I just like to go to Sunday school. I really liked it.	6:17
Kara Miles	When you were courting the girls, did they have certain times that you had to leave by?	6:27
Clayton Harris	You can believe that.	6:32
Kara Miles	What time would you have to leave?	6:38
Clayton Harris	9:00 PM, you better have your hat in your hand and you better be saying, "Goodbye." Some of them were tight. Uh-huh, if they wanted to hug, well you better hug them before 9:00 PM.	6:45
Kara Miles	Were you tight on your daughter?	6:52
Clayton Harris	No, not too tight.	7:00
Kara Miles	No?	7:03
Clayton Harris	I don't like a lot of them, because I went to see some of the old ladies sitting right in the door. Yeah, I know when one don't listen, and you wouldn't get your hands off of her before you left her.	7:03
Kara Miles	Were there certain days that you could go see the girls, or could you go any night?	7:22
Clayton Harris	No, most of the time I went on a Wednesday night from Saturday night, Sunday night. They ended that. In the daytime on Sunday only.	7:32
Kara Miles	Okay.	7:44
Clayton Harris	Now, everything has changed now where it used to be, everything.	7:45
Kara Miles	Yeah, right.	7:45
Clayton Harris	Yeah, everything changes.	7:45
Kara Miles	Tell me what other things have changed.	7:53
Clayton Harris	About everything I knew about is changed—	7:58
Kara Miles	Hmm.	7:59
Clayton Harris	—everything. Well one thing about now, children don't have to walk to school. Now, they catch the school bus. Way back when I come along, you're not thinking about no school bus, but your parents might [indistinct 00:08:15] on you mule [indistinct 00:08:16].	7:59
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	8:13
Clayton Harris	Something like that, but now we've got school buses. We're living a whole lot better than what we used to in them days. In fact about it, we're just living in a new world now than what it used to be as far as that is. Me and someone were talking about it here the other day. I said, "We're just living in a new world." You used to sleep on your front porch all night if you wanted to. It was screened in. Skeeters didn't bother you—	8:19
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	8:50
Clayton Harris	—but now at sundown you better have your door closed. People will kill you now because all this stuff. Every night, I mean, there's somebody killing. They're underpaid and [indistinct 00:09:09]. Kinston, Greenville about 20 miles where I live, there wasn't [indistinct 00:09:13]. It used to be here in Jacksonville. Most of all, over there in Jacksonville every night somebody gets killed or robbed. Now, two or three nights ago, I believe that was in Greenville. [indistinct 00:09:38] and beat an old man up, and he got out and went over to some of his friends' house and looked back, they done set his trailer on fire.	8:57
Kara Miles	Hmm.	9:45
Clayton Harris	It was on the news last night, pitiful, I was [indistinct 00:09:54]. I don't why they're killing those people. I don't think the world can't stand much longer like it's going now. That's right, it can't.	9:49
Kara Miles	When you were young, did people kill each other and steal, and—	10:06
Clayton Harris	No—	10:11
Kara Miles	No?	10:12
Clayton Harris	—nothing like it is nowadays. About all them fighting with their hands and fists, that was about it. No, you hardly ever heard about nobody getting killed [indistinct 00:10:28].	10:13
Kara Miles	Did you ever get into any fights?	10:30
Clayton Harris	No, no. Once or twice I might have get into a fight, a fistfight. It didn't amount to much.	10:31
Kara Miles	What were you fighting about?	10:40
Clayton Harris	Oh, I don't remember what we were fighting about, there ain't no telling. Way back then, there ain't no telling. It might have been over a girl, or what you say to a girl, or anything.	10:40
Kara Miles	Back when you were young here was there ever any racial violence? Was the Ku Klux Klan around here?	11:00
Clayton Harris	Well yes, there was.	11:10
Kara Miles	Did you ever see them?	11:14
Clayton Harris	Well you would see them, but you wouldn't know who you were looking at.	11:16
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	11:18
Clayton Harris	Yeah, there used to be around here plenty of them.	11:20
Kara Miles	When did you see them?	11:25
Clayton Harris	Well, there's different places up and down the road. I'd never seen none at night. I remember way back yonder, they beat up an old man, beat him really bad. Well, he was being mean to his wife, and his wife sees his kids and these White folks, and some of the White folks were in the Ku Klux Klan.	11:27
Kara Miles	Was this a White man they beat up?	11:51
Clayton Harris	They killed a man, about beat him to death. He'd never would get over it. Then, I think they put slow liniment over him, on him, after they beat him. He'd never get over it. He got better, but soon died.	11:52
Kara Miles	You said his wife was related to the White people?	12:09
Clayton Harris	Yeah. Yeah, I knew his daughter. I knew his daughter well, as she comes to our church because she belong to it. Yeah.	12:11
Kara Miles	Did that happen a lot where Whites and Blacks were related?	12:24
Clayton Harris	Oh yeah, there's Whites and Blacks that have been related ever since the world been. I was glad as ever to have been raised in the mix. I was glad it mixed up. It was all intended, and we've all been Africans. Yep, all have been Africans and you too.	12:31
Kara Miles	Hmm?	12:54
Clayton Harris	Sure, yeah. Now, you see you look rich.	12:54
Kara Miles	You look what?	12:54
Clayton Harris	[indistinct 00:13:02]. It looks all right. If they had them mixed up, you wouldn't look no White. My grandmamma on my mamma's side, her daddy was a White man. Yeah, she was my mamma's mother. Her father was a White man.	13:04
Kara Miles	Okay.	13:19
Clayton Harris	That's why I tell you they've been mixing all the time.	13:23
Kara Miles	Did they use to claim that the children they would've had with Black people? Did they use to claim—	13:28
Clayton Harris	Oh, yeah.	13:42
Kara Miles	—them as their children?	13:42
Clayton Harris	Yeah, and she had a brother, now this [indistinct 00:13:43] her father, and he hid my grandmother's half brother.	13:42
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	13:49
Clayton Harris	And, her daddy was a White man and his was too because they were real half brothers you see, yeah. This girl was carried in ahead of us. That White man was his daddy, which was her daddy to the mixed up. He give them I don't know how much land did he give him.	13:49
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	14:07
Clayton Harris	You go up there right now, but well you see now she live on the railroad up there to her daddy's place. It looked like a little town up there. There were so many houses up there. We built on his place too.	14:07
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	14:35
Clayton Harris	Her children and his grandchildren, great grandchildren, all of them got enough land to build a house on it. It looks like a town up there. That's right.	14:35
Kara Miles	For real?	14:35
Clayton Harris	A White man done it, and give it to them. He give it to them.	14:35
Kara Miles	Did a White man and a Black woman ever live together, live like they were married together?	14:56
Clayton Harris	Mm-hmm, there was some of them down there. Yeah, sure.	15:04
Kara Miles	They did?	15:06
Clayton Harris	Not back in yonder days.	15:07
Kara Miles	Yeah, I'm talking about back then.	15:08
Clayton Harris	No, never.	15:08
Kara Miles	No?	15:08
Clayton Harris	No, they didn't [indistinct 00:15:13] stayed together like they was married, no.	15:11
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	15:12
Clayton Harris	Not around here, but they say they did up North. When segregation passed, they didn't get no strain up North. They've been doing that all the time up there, but some of my people say that.	15:20
Kara Miles	Yeah.	15:29
Clayton Harris	And I'll tell you the truth, down here and everywhere's else, there's some guessing and some ain't. I'm glad that White is just as glad to get with the Black ones because they're getting bigger. However, you see all the young ones walking here and especially children, especially children walking down the street and going to the store, and White women are in there with them [indistinct 00:16:03]. Yeah.	15:37
Clayton Harris	I knew a boy up there on the Clark Road. It was about a mile and a half from me. He married a one. He and his wife separated, and he married a White woman. He told me, "Well, I'm chained up now. I'll see what I can do with this." I said, "Well, maybe you'll do all right." She left him a week or two [indistinct 00:16:33]. I remember I loved one. I remember that young girl [indistinct 00:16:33] or not. She was White.	16:01
Clayton Harris	He found his car up the road there. He went and got it. I don't know whether she ever come back or not. I know she didn't want to stay with him, no. He wasn't an old man. He was in his fifties, and she was about in her twenties. She just grew up with him. It was [indistinct 00:17:05], and some of them aren't worth no how, Black or White, they got to work and beat you out of everything you can get.	16:44
Kara Miles	Back when you were young, were there relationships between Black men and White women, or just between—?	17:20
Clayton Harris	Oh yeah, they'd go together.	17:26
Kara Miles	Yes.	17:29
Clayton Harris	If you had a relationship together, you had to know something about them. I don't know. At least, I hear my dad talking about, "Such and such is going with that White woman."	17:30
Kara Miles	Hey—	17:43
Clayton Harris	It ain't nothing strange. It ain't nothing, ain't nothing strange.	17:47
Kara Miles	Did they have to keep that secret?	17:56
Clayton Harris	You're doing the best you could about it. With something like this, it's hard to keep a secret. It just leak out because somebody got to know it. Somebody going to know it.	17:56
Kara Miles	Is that something that the Ku Klux Klan would get upset about? Would they do something about that?	18:04
Clayton Harris	Yeah, if they could find out and catch you and knew something about it, especially back then, yeah. They'd beat you to death.	18:09
Kara Miles	Do you ever remember that happening?	18:18
Clayton Harris	No, I don't. No, I really don't.	18:26
Kara Miles	So, what? People were just slick enough not to get caught?	18:27
Clayton Harris	They didn't get caught, that's all. They just didn't get caught. No. Shoot, they tried to get me to go with them, have a relationship with them, and they didn't care. They're bold. I was like, "No, I can't do that." I liked them and went around with them and slipped and slide, but no, Daddy didn't raise no fool I'll tell you that. Shoot, we wouldn't even go out with them and they didn't care whether their momma and dad knowed. "No, don't talk to me."	18:29
Kara Miles	Hmm.	19:06
Clayton Harris	It wouldn't bother them to kill me.	19:08
Kara Miles	Hmm. When did you marry your wife? How old were you when you got married?	19:28
Clayton Harris	How old was she?	19:30
Kara Miles	How old were you when you got married?	19:32
Clayton Harris	25. I thought I was 23 or 24. She said I was 25. Oh, boy.	19:42
Kara Miles	Why did you marry her over all those other women that you had?	19:49
Clayton Harris	Well, just got a notion of getting married. I got her pregnant too. That's [indistinct 00:20:00], I got her pregnant and married her. I was going out with another one too though. [indistinct 00:20:08] so bad, she quit eating.	19:53
Kara Miles	Oh, quit eating.	20:08
Clayton Harris	Her sister told on them. She said, "Do you know my sister?" He said, "She ain't eating with us. Her appetite is less." "Well, it's been a good evening."	20:14
Kara Miles	Well, you were quite the ladies' man, huh?	20:26
Clayton Harris	I'll put it in a book. I also loved up a little bit to photography after that on the side. It didn't help a whole lot. It started to build up. Lord, lordy, good-ole days I thought. Yeah, I thought it was the good-ole days. You ain't married is you?	20:29
Kara Miles	I'm getting married.	21:07
Clayton Harris	You're getting married?	21:07
Kara Miles	Yep.	21:09
Clayton Harris	I thought so.	21:16
Kara Miles	Why did you think so?	21:16
Clayton Harris	Well, I don't see how you got by this long, as good as you look, I know somebody done hung you. What sort of work your boyfriend do?	21:17
Kara Miles	He's in school right now. He's a student. He's in college.	21:30
Clayton Harris	Oh, yes? Oh, yeah. I see.	21:34
Kara Miles	Yeah.	21:39
Clayton Harris	And you is how old, 22?	21:39
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	21:39
Clayton Harris	Hm, well, you understand one another, and so it's all right. That's nice getting married while you're young and getting along good, and start kindling something.	21:45
Kara Miles	Yeah.	22:03
Clayton Harris	You'll know when you have something.	22:04
Kara Miles	Yeah.	22:06
Clayton Harris	Yeah.	22:06
Kara Miles	When you were courting, what kind of girl did you think was pretty? What kind of girl did you like?	22:10
Clayton Harris	All of them. My wife told me, she said, "She had good hair." I was like, "You're lucky enough. You've got long hair," and of course I didn't care about the hair. "Yes, you do." I just knew it didn't make no difference to me if her sister had some on her head. Oh. Didn't you live in Virginia you said?	22:31
Kara Miles	That's where I'm from. I live in Durham now.	22:57
Clayton Harris	Durham.	22:59
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	22:59
Clayton Harris	I got a nephew, my sister's [indistinct 00:23:12] daughter, she teaches school in Durham.	23:07
Kara Miles	Oh.	23:18
Clayton Harris	Yeah.	23:18
Kara Miles	There you go. Well, I think I'm out of questions. Are there any other things about that period of time that you want to tell me?	23:18
Clayton Harris	I'll tell you about part of the history of my life.	23:30
Kara Miles	Well, is there any more history that you didn't tell me?	23:37
Clayton Harris	No. I'll keep the rest of it.	23:39
Kara Miles	Okay. You told me all you can tell me, right? I understand.	23:42
Clayton Harris	Yeah. Yeah.	23:44
Kara Miles	I understand.	23:44
Clayton Harris	Well I'll tell you, I hope it will help you out on your program.	23:50
Kara Miles	It will. It'll help me out a lot.	23:50
Clayton Harris	Yeah.	23:51
Kara Miles	Thank you.	23:54
Clayton Harris	You're going to send me—glad to meet you, and glad to sit in front of you and talk with you. We enjoyed it.	23:59
Kara Miles	Good. I enjoyed it too.	24:00
Clayton Harris	That'll last me a long time. Fine.	24:08
Kara Miles	Tell me about the Knights of Gideon. What's that?	24:09
Clayton Harris	Knights of Gideon?	24:11
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	24:11
Clayton Harris	Well, it's just an organization, at large, that you can join and it will help you out on your [indistinct 00:24:21].	24:17
Kara Miles	Okay.	24:19
Clayton Harris	It's [indistinct 00:24:23] your little donation, and so go straight.	24:23
Kara Miles	When did you join that?	24:31
Clayton Harris	Oh, about 50, 60 years ago.	24:33
Kara Miles	Was your father a member of that lodge? [indistinct 00:24:41]—	24:38
Clayton Harris	No, he wasn't. He was a Mason.	24:40
Kara Miles	Oh, he was a Mason, okay.	24:40
Clayton Harris	He was a Mason, yeah.	24:40
Kara Miles	Why didn't you join the Masons?	24:45
Clayton Harris	Carelessness.	24:47
Kara Miles	Huh?	24:47
Clayton Harris	Carelessness. Carelessness, that's all. I was enjoying it, and I showed her and we started doing it.	24:49
Kara Miles	What do you mean carelessness?	25:01
Clayton Harris	Just enjoying.	25:04
Kara Miles	Oh, okay. [indistinct 00:25:07].	25:04
Clayton Harris	Just enjoying, that's all.	25:07
Kara Miles	Okay.	25:07
Clayton Harris	Is the Knights of Gideon an old organization? Has it been around for a long time?	25:11
Kara Miles	Yeah, in 1912, yeah.	25:14
Clayton Harris	Yeah?	25:14
Kara Miles	Yep.	25:15
Clayton Harris	And so, you pay a certain amount a month, or you pay and—	25:22
Kara Miles	You pay so much a month.	25:26
Clayton Harris	Okay.	25:27
Kara Miles	Yep, so much a month. I like it.	25:32
Clayton Harris	So when you were young, did you belong to any things like that? Any clubs, lodges, or anything?	25:36
Kara Miles	No, I didn't. No, I didn't think about it. I didn't have time. I was doing good staying in church.	25:42
Clayton Harris	Okay.	25:47

Item Info

Title:

Clayton Harris interview recording, 1993 August 03

Date:

August 3, 1993

Creator:

Harris, Clayton

Contributor:

Miles, Kara Giselle

Description:

Name: Clayton Harris; Date of birth: 1907-12-04; Place of birth: Vanceboro, NC; Occupation(s): agriculture; Residence: New Bern, NC
Informant ID: 307; Interviewed by: Kara Miles.

Occupation:

Agriculture

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

See below

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 697
19bf1856-404f-4bcf-b3e4-f2b1b2e24a3d
behindtheveil
btvnc05030
ark:/87924/r4cc10826
6296bfd9-2e7b-4c6e-a596-c104d677a69a

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4cc10826

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Clayton Harris interview recording, 1993 August 03

Transcript

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1. Clayton Harris administrative file, 1993

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Transcript

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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