Aaron Boyd interview recording, 1993 July 27

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Rhonda Mawhood	—City?	0:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yes.	0:01
Rhonda Mawhood	In this James City, sir?	0:03
Aaron Baker Boyd	In this, yeah.	0:04
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Were your parents from here?	0:10
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yes.	0:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Can you tell me about your parents, where they were born, what they—	0:14
Aaron Baker Boyd	They were born here.	0:18
Rhonda Mawhood	Was that in this James City or the old James City that used to exist?	0:21
Aaron Baker Boyd	Perhaps they were born in the old James City.	0:25
Rhonda Mawhood	So how far back does your family go in this area, sir?	0:31
Aaron Baker Boyd	We go back to the old James City.	0:37
Rhonda Mawhood	And your grandparents, do you know—	0:41
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	0:44
Rhonda Mawhood	—about them, sir?	0:44
Aaron Baker Boyd	Mm-hmm.	0:45
Rhonda Mawhood	Where were they born, sir?	0:50
Aaron Baker Boyd	James City.	0:51
Rhonda Mawhood	Were your grandparents born free, sir?	0:52
Aaron Baker Boyd	Beg your pardon?	0:57
Rhonda Mawhood	Were your grandparents born free? Were they free persons?	0:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	1:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Your grandparents?	1:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	1:02
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you know your grandparents when you were growing up?	1:04
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, as I was growing up. Yeah, I knew them.	1:08
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things did you do with your grandparents?	1:09
Aaron Baker Boyd	I knew my grandmother on mother's side. I knew my grandmother on my father's side. So I knowed all of them. My father, he runned some kind of market. He was selling vegetables and stuff. They tell me he got on The Neuse, the boat that's called The Neuse. I think the boat run from here to Norfolk, and the boat took him away.	1:12
Rhonda Mawhood	The boat took him away?	1:41
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. But see, he was supposed to get on the boat and selling and get back off, but he got on The Neuse and didn't get off.	1:43
Rhonda Mawhood	How old were you when that happened, sir?	1:52
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I wasn't born. I heard about that. I was told about that from him. I'd hear them speak about it.	1:56
Rhonda Mawhood	So that was, I'm sorry, your grandfather who was—	2:04
Aaron Baker Boyd	My father.	2:08
Rhonda Mawhood	Your father?	2:09
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	2:10
Rhonda Mawhood	So your mother was expecting you then, or—	2:10
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, it was some more older than me. Some more older than I was.	2:16
Rhonda Mawhood	So your father got on the boat at that point, and did he manage to come back?	2:21
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	2:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, he did?	2:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, he came back.	2:28
Rhonda Mawhood	So he told you about this?	2:31
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. I'd often hear him talk about it.	2:32
Rhonda Mawhood	How did he get back here?	2:38
Aaron Baker Boyd	See, the boat come backward and forward. So he come back on the next day.	2:40
Rhonda Mawhood	What about your mother, sir? What kind of work did she do?	2:50
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, she used to do some little housework for some people.	2:52
Rhonda Mawhood	Some White people?	3:00
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right, right.	3:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Where did she go to do this work, sir?	3:04
Aaron Baker Boyd	New Bern.	3:07
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. How did she get there when she had to go to work?	3:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, they had horses and carts and all like that and some cars. You go right across the bridge, the bridge across there.	3:11
Rhonda Mawhood	Did she travel by herself or with other women?	3:25
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, it would be two or three ahead of them going there that way.	3:30
Rhonda Mawhood	How many children were there in your family? How many brothers and sisters did you have, sir?	3:38
Aaron Baker Boyd	I can account for three boys, and I had one sister. Then they had some dead. I don't know how many there were. Pardon me. My brother would carry me outdoors. A snake bit him in the water. He was soft crabbing, and he didn't want to carry me outdoors. He was older than I was. I was the baby then. But I remember them talking about it. A snake bit him in the water.	3:44
Rhonda Mawhood	And what happened?	4:20
Aaron Baker Boyd	He died.	4:24
Rhonda Mawhood	He died. How old was he, sir?	4:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	I don't know because I was a baby. He kept me outdoors.	4:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you fish also—or crab also?	4:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I didn't. No.	4:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Why not?	4:45
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I didn't like the water too much.	4:46
Rhonda Mawhood	Why didn't you like the water?	4:52
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I was scared of the snakes, too. That's why I didn't like the water.	4:57
Rhonda Mawhood	I can understand that. So when you were growing up, did people tell you stories about the history of James City?	5:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, yeah, I know some of it about their living quarter and all like that there. James City was an industrial place. They had four mills over there, two sawmills and one called planting mill and then a heading mill they had over there. That's how the people over there would get their living. James City was industrial. People from New Bern was coming over here for work. Some of them would ride bicycles over there to work and all like that. James City was industrial. Then it was a farm over here called Bray's Farm.	5:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Bray's Farm?	5:55
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Dixon.	5:56
Rhonda Mawhood	Dixon?	5:59
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	6:00
Rhonda Mawhood	Dixon was the owner?	6:00
Aaron Baker Boyd	It was a farm. One farm.	6:02
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you know people who worked in the mills?	6:06
Aaron Baker Boyd	Sure. I had an uncle. He worked out there. He worked out there to Sanders Lumber Company. He worked there. My father, he worked to a heading mill called Adams Cooper Company that was in James City. All them four mills was in James City. Also, we had a Post Office in there. Now, the Post Office has been changed about three or four times. The Blacks was running the Post Office, and they come in this area. It was in here twice. Then it left from here, and it went down to a place called Brentson down there. So actually, James City do need a Post Office. It need one.	6:13
Rhonda Mawhood	[indistinct 00:07:06] right now.	7:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	They don't have one. They need a sub Post Office because you have to go way down there to mail a package or either go to New Bern. We really need a Post Office.	7:06
Rhonda Mawhood	There was a Post Office here when you were growing up, sir?	7:20
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right. Since I've been grown, it's been moved three times.	7:21
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you know Black people who worked in the Post Office when you were growing up, sir?	7:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	I know one. Emma Henderson, she used to run the sub Post Office right out there on the highway. So I think that time it left. Then it went to a lady named Dot Hargett, and she runned it right out here. Next time it went down to Brentson. So it come back again up here, and some people were running it. It closed out. So don't have no Post Office. We don't have no PostOoffice. But James City's on the map. I'll tell you that. It's on the map.	7:32
Aaron Baker Boyd	It's about one of the oldest place in eastern North Carolina, one of the oldest. I think the place you call Bath, I believe, somewhere down in the country, I believe it's the oldest. But James City is something that is from the older. It's on the map.	8:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, and your family is one of the old families here.	8:34
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	8:37
Rhonda Mawhood	You told me that your grandparents were born free.	8:41
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	8:45
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you know how far back that goes in your family, this freedom?	8:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I don't.	8:51
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you spend time with your two grandmothers when you were growing up, sir?	8:58
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yes, I did. Because my grandmother, I know she used to go to New Bern selling vegetable and stuff, towed the basket up on her head and selling vegetable.	9:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you ever go with her into New Bern?	9:22
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I didn't.	9:23
Rhonda Mawhood	But you saw her with the basket of vegetables on her head?	9:26
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, I know that she would come out with it.	9:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Did she teach you how to put a basket on your head?	9:33
Aaron Baker Boyd	I would see her out there. I couldn't see how they could carry them basket on the head without touching it. They could sit that basket on their head [indistinct 00:09:47].	9:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Did she tell you how she learned to do that?	9:48
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, she did not.	9:50
Rhonda Mawhood	Your other grandmother, what kind of work did she do?	9:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	My other grandmother, my mother's side, she worked to a restaurant. Yeah.	9:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Where was the restaurant, sir?	10:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	In New Bern. Her name was Charity Moore, and she worked to a restaurant in New Bern.	10:06
Rhonda Mawhood	Chatty Moore?	10:15
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	10:17
Rhonda Mawhood	What did she do in the restaurant, sir?	10:18
Aaron Baker Boyd	I think she was a salesman because she was behind the counter, because I know I used to go in there sometime and see her.	10:23
Rhonda Mawhood	Was it a restaurant mostly for Black people or mostly for White people?	10:30
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, it was set up for White people, but I think Black people could go in there and get something though. I ain't never known. One place I went to one time, they wouldn't serve Black. If they serve you, you had to go in the back. That was in Little Washington.	10:37
Rhonda Mawhood	In Little Washington?	10:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right. That was before the civil rights movement come through here. Also, in New Bern, it was a Cresses store and McClellan. To Cresses, they wouldn't want to serve Blacks at the counter, and McClellan, they [indistinct 00:11:31] and they took all Cresses. And then Cresses wanted to open up, but the Black didn't never go back to them, and they went out business. They went out of business.	11:00
Rhonda Mawhood	That's in the 1960s?	11:47
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.	11:48
Rhonda Mawhood	Before the 1960s, before the Civil Rights movement, do you remember people talking about the fact that they couldn't get served in the restaurants, things like that?	11:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	Did I hear them talking about they couldn't served?	12:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.	12:07
Aaron Baker Boyd	Sure. Yeah.	12:07
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things would they say about it?	12:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, they just wouldn't serve us because they wouldn't even allow you to come in there.	12:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember Black people themselves talking about this, about what they thought of that?	12:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I mean they didn't think it was right, but it wasn't nothing that could do about it. I was working at the Navy base in Cherry Point. When I went there, they had a wall between the White on one side, the Black on the other. So they were getting ready to let it down. So they soon let it down. That's when they had Black water and White water. That was during the time the civil right movement went through because we come a long ways.	12:26
Aaron Baker Boyd	But the dream haven't ended yet. It never will end. I don't think it never will end, the dream. But the dreamer, he went on. That was Martin Luther King. But we come a long way.	13:04
Rhonda Mawhood	I'd like to talk about that a bit more later. But I'd like to ask you, Mr. Boyd, about the neighborhood you grew up in. What was your neighborhood like, sir?	13:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	Nice, quiet neighborhood because we had less violence over here and stuff. They was in New Bern, and they had all the law enforcement there. We don't have no law enforcement here. We have to call the law if anything would happen. But it's been less crimes and stuff in James City. James City been quiet. That was before. I think I seen more violence since television been on than ever before. That's right.	13:40
Rhonda Mawhood	What kind of work did your neighbors do when you were growing up, sir?	14:22
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, they worked to the mill industry. Then the women, they done laundry for White folks. There was a man going around would pick up the clothes named John Lee. He had a horse and cart. I think he would get about 35 cent a week, hauling them baskets of clothes back to the White folk.	14:27
Rhonda Mawhood	This is a Black man who's doing the hauling?	14:53
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. So we come from a long way. But there's still farther to go because I say together we stand and divided we'll fall. I quote this from the Bible. I think we first need to, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. Then all the other things be added unto thee." That's what I say.	14:55
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you and your parents read the Bible?	15:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Yeah. My father, he was a preacher, stood at the Methodist church right across the field over there. My mother, she was over here in this church right here. She was a Baptist. My father was a Methodist. My father's people was Methodist, but my mother's people were Baptist.	15:32
Rhonda Mawhood	Which church did you go to, sir?	15:53
Aaron Baker Boyd	The Baptist church.	15:55
Rhonda Mawhood	And your brothers and sister?	15:56
Aaron Baker Boyd	Some of them split. Some went where my father was at. I went where my mother was there. So about 35 years I've been a deacon at this church here.	16:00
Rhonda Mawhood	The same church that you grew up in?	16:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right.	16:16
Rhonda Mawhood	What's the name of that church?	16:18
Aaron Baker Boyd	Pilgrim Chapel Missionary Baptist Church.	16:19
Rhonda Mawhood	Pilgrim Chapel.	16:21
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	16:21
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you enjoy going to church when you were a little boy?	16:24
Aaron Baker Boyd	Sure. Yeah.	16:26
Rhonda Mawhood	What did you like about it, sir?	16:29
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I liked the Spirit that they had in the church.	16:31
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you feel the Spirit yourself?	16:36
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yes. Yeah.	16:37
Rhonda Mawhood	How old were you when you first remember feeling the Spirit?	16:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, when I was converted.	16:42
Rhonda Mawhood	When were you converted, sir?	16:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	I was about 12 years old I think it was.	16:52
Rhonda Mawhood	If you don't mind me asking, what kind of a difference did you feel once you felt the Spirit and when you were converted? What was different about the way you felt from before?	16:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I just felt just lifted up, just lifted up.	17:09
Rhonda Mawhood	Were you baptized then, sir?	17:13
Aaron Baker Boyd	I was baptized.	17:17
Rhonda Mawhood	Where were you baptized?	17:19
Aaron Baker Boyd	I was baptized down here in the river.	17:21
Rhonda Mawhood	The Trent River?	17:23
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, down the Neuse.	17:24
Rhonda Mawhood	The Neuse River?	17:26
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right.	17:26
Rhonda Mawhood	What was your baptism like? What was that day like? Do you remember?	17:30
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I don't.	17:38
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your family ever go to revivals during—	17:38
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. We had revival. All the churches over here had revival. There was four churches over here. All of them had revivals because they're like, "We supposed to have revivals now starting the 14th of September." So we had it every year.	17:40
Rhonda Mawhood	What were the revivals like when you were growing up?	18:00
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, they had a evangelist come there, conduct the revival, and singing and shouting and everything.	18:04
Rhonda Mawhood	How long did they go on for?	18:19
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, they'd take in 7:00 or 7:30. From 7:00 to 7:30, prayer service. Then the minister would come and preach. I think we'd get out about 9:00, sometimes 10:00, according to how the Spirit was in there.	18:19
Rhonda Mawhood	Did people come from other places?	18:40
Aaron Baker Boyd	Other places, yeah.	18:44
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember there being a lot of people around?	18:47
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	18:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Where did they stay when they came?	18:50
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, they'd go back home.	18:53
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, okay.	18:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	They'd go back home. It wasn't too far for them. They'd go back home.	18:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you and your family go to revivals in other towns?	19:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Other churches and their services. There's five churches in this area.	19:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Did Baptists stay at Baptist revivals or would people go to the Methodist church revival sometimes?	19:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	19:22
Rhonda Mawhood	So they would switch?	19:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right.	19:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. So a fellowship?	19:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	Fellowship, right.	19:29
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things did you do for fun when you were growing up, mr. Boyd?	19:34
Aaron Baker Boyd	Beg your pardon?	19:39
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things did you do for fun when you were growing up?	19:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I'd shoot marble, fly kites, and all that kind of stuff like that.	19:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Where was it that you went to school, sir?	19:51
Aaron Baker Boyd	James City School over here.	19:55
Rhonda Mawhood	How many rooms were there in your school, sir?	20:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	I disremember. I won't say because I disremember how many rooms there were.	20:14
Rhonda Mawhood	But there was more than one?	20:18
Aaron Baker Boyd	More than one, yeah.	20:19
Rhonda Mawhood	All right. Are there any of your teachers whose memories have stayed with you?	20:20
Aaron Baker Boyd	I remember Ms. Hawkins and—	20:26
Rhonda Mawhood	Hawkins?	20:29
Aaron Baker Boyd	—Ms. White. I remember the principal, Professor Chief. I can't remember them all.	20:32
Rhonda Mawhood	What is it that you remember about these people, sir? About your teachers and the principal?	20:49
Aaron Baker Boyd	What year?	20:55
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, either Ms. White, Ms. Hawkins, the principal.	20:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	Another one named Ms. Alexander. Yeah.	21:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Were there a lot of children in the neighborhood where you grew up?	21:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	21:12
Rhonda Mawhood	How did you get to school when you went?	21:15
Aaron Baker Boyd	You walked there.	21:17
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you and your friends walk together?	21:21
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	21:23
Rhonda Mawhood	How long did it take you to get to school?	21:24
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, it wouldn't take about 15 or 20 minutes.	21:27
Rhonda Mawhood	You'd walk along there together?	21:34
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	21:36
Rhonda Mawhood	How far did you go in school, Mr. Boyd?	21:42
Aaron Baker Boyd	I got to the 3rd grade. I went to work. My father, during the time of the Depression, I went to help him out. He was older, and I kind of dropped out.	21:46
Rhonda Mawhood	How old were you then, sir?	22:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	Let me see. I think I was around about 18 years old or something like that, 15. Yeah.	22:12
Rhonda Mawhood	What kind of work did you do then, sir?	22:20
Aaron Baker Boyd	I worked to the fertilizer house down there a little bit. He didn't want me to work down there, my father didn't. But I was doing trying to help. Then they kept on. I worked to [indistinct 00:22:37] plant in New Bern. Then next time I was at Cherry Point Marine Base.	22:26
Rhonda Mawhood	Was it Fred Law house that you worked, did you say?	22:47
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right. Down there. Down there.	22:50
Rhonda Mawhood	Now, why didn't your father want you working there?	22:50
Aaron Baker Boyd	He didn't want me to work there.	22:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Why not?	22:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	He felt like it was too much for me.	22:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. What kind of work were you doing, sir?	22:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, it was working in the fertilizer. Barges come up down there—	23:03
Rhonda Mawhood	Fertilizer.	23:06
Aaron Baker Boyd	—and they unloading the stuff off the barges.	23:06
Rhonda Mawhood	So that's a lot of real—	23:07
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right.	23:12
Rhonda Mawhood	—heavy work.	23:12
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right.	23:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Did you like that work that you were doing there with fertilizer?	23:18
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I didn't like it, but I did it. But I soon got away. I didn't stay there too long. I didn't like it, but I did it.	23:23
Rhonda Mawhood	And then you went to the nail plant?	23:29
Aaron Baker Boyd	[indistinct 00:23:32] plant.	23:32
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. What were you doing there, sir?	23:32
Aaron Baker Boyd	I was working to a machine that rolled this [indistinct 00:23:41] off a log and cut it off. I was pulling it back. I was pulling it back just like that.	23:37
Rhonda Mawhood	It sounds like you had to be careful doing that work with big machines.	23:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	23:55
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you know anybody who got hurt doing work?	23:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	No. I got hurt there. But I was running the machine then when I got hurt. There it is right there, that finger.	24:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, my goodness.	24:10
Aaron Baker Boyd	It got hung up in a cogwheel.	24:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Third finger on your right hand. What happened to it, sir?	24:14
Aaron Baker Boyd	It was a wheel turned over like that, and it got caught up in it.	24:18
Rhonda Mawhood	So what happened when your finger got caught? What did you do?	24:27
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, somebody went up there and cut the machine right off, and it stopped.	24:32
Rhonda Mawhood	Who saw to your finger? Who looked after your finger?	24:43
Aaron Baker Boyd	It was a doctor in town. Dr. Duffy, I think it was.	24:45
Rhonda Mawhood	Duffrin?	24:53
Aaron Baker Boyd	Duffy.	24:56
Rhonda Mawhood	Duffy?	24:56
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	24:56
Rhonda Mawhood	So you went to him?	25:00
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. The company sent me there.	25:01
Rhonda Mawhood	The company sent you. Did they pay for it?	25:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	They paid for it.	25:08
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. And then did you have to take time off work?	25:11
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	25:14
Rhonda Mawhood	You did? How long did you stop, sir, stop work?	25:14
Aaron Baker Boyd	I was off about two or three months, two months.	25:20
Rhonda Mawhood	Did they pay you at all for that time?	25:24
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Compensation.	25:26
Rhonda Mawhood	Worker's compensation?	25:29
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right.	25:31
Rhonda Mawhood	And then you went back to that job?	25:33
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, I went back.	25:34
Rhonda Mawhood	How did you feel about it when you went back?	25:34
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I felt all right about it, but—see, I was messing around the machine, and that's how I got into it with the machine. But I would be on the machine, and you take and pulling it back like that. But when I got this here hurt, I was operating the machine. I was a operator. I was just trying to learn how to operate it, rather.	25:35
Rhonda Mawhood	So you went back to the same machine after you went back to work?	26:11
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, but I didn't operate it. I went back there.	26:14
Rhonda Mawhood	And then you told me that you went to work at Cherry Point.	26:24
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right.	26:27
Rhonda Mawhood	What kind of work were you doing there, sir?	26:27
Aaron Baker Boyd	When I first went there I was—	26:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Excuse me.	26:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	—a laborer. And then I went to a helper, and I left from there. Before I come out of there, I was a supervisor. I didn't know how I got it, but I got it. I got it from experience. I made 85, and that was passing mark.	26:44
Rhonda Mawhood	On a test?	26:58
Aaron Baker Boyd	On a test. 85.	26:59
Rhonda Mawhood	What kind of test did you have to take, sir?	27:00
Aaron Baker Boyd	Experience. They went from my experience because I was working in a parcel post cage, just like you get packages in the Post Office. I was handling them packages. So up top side where all the offices and things at, you had to write up the papers. The papers go up there. So I was working in this parcel post cage with a White fellow.	27:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	I finally started putting my name on the invoice, and the invoice would go upstairs. Then they wanted to know who I was. So they took me from the experience, and that's how I got it.	27:32
Rhonda Mawhood	They saw that you had been sending a lot of packages?	27:48
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right, right.	27:50
Rhonda Mawhood	What gave you the idea to start putting your name down, sir?	27:53
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I said I might get somewhere, and I did. So yeah, before I come out of Cherry Point, that's when I made supervisor. I made a supervisor. I made 85 on supervisor.	27:55
Rhonda Mawhood	About when was it that you started working at Cherry Point, sir, about what year?	28:14
Aaron Baker Boyd	'45.	28:17
Rhonda Mawhood	'45.	28:19
Aaron Baker Boyd	I stayed there 30 years and four months.	28:20
Rhonda Mawhood	So you started working there just before—had the war finished when you started or was it just—	28:30
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	28:32
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Did you know men who went away to war during the Second World War?	28:37
Aaron Baker Boyd	Do I know any?	28:40
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	28:45
Aaron Baker Boyd	I had a brother-in-law was in there. Two brother-in-laws was in there.	28:45
Rhonda Mawhood	What do you remember about the Second World War, you yourself, sir?	28:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	I don't remember too much about it. I only remember when they were coming back.	28:59
Rhonda Mawhood	What was that like when they came back?	29:04
Aaron Baker Boyd	What was it like?	29:08
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, sir. When these men came back from the war?	29:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	It was a happy time. The church bells were ringing and everything.	29:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Out of the different jobs that you've told me that you had, which one did you like the best, sir?	29:20
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, one job I had, I was at the USO. I liked that. That where the Marines and the sailors and all them, they would come in on the weekend, and I was working at that. Then that's when I went to the [indistinct 00:29:47] plant. I liked that job, but I didn't stay ;are too long.	29:28
Rhonda Mawhood	That's the job where you got hurt, too?	29:51
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	29:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. When you were growing up in James City, sir, where did your family do their shopping? Where did they get their food and things like that?	29:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, there was a store right out there on this highway called Pender Store. That where we would shop at. Then in James City, it was shopping places in James City, Solomon Phillips, Amos Williams. That's where they was doing the shopping.	30:11
Rhonda Mawhood	Were these Black people who owned the stores?	30:31
Aaron Baker Boyd	Black people. Right, Black people.	30:33
Rhonda Mawhood	So were most of the businesses that you and your family went to owned by Black people?	30:36
Aaron Baker Boyd	Black people, right. Unless they were clothing and shoes and stuff like that.	30:38
Rhonda Mawhood	In that case, it would be White people?	30:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Right.	30:51
Rhonda Mawhood	Who made the decisions in your family when you were growing up? Who made the decisions about things like how to spend money?	30:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	I think they made their own decision.	31:07
Rhonda Mawhood	Your mother and father, do you think they made them together?	31:09
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Right.	31:11
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you go to the stores with your parents?	31:15
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I didn't.	31:23
Rhonda Mawhood	So they went?	31:23
Aaron Baker Boyd	Uh-huh. I know I used to go to meet my father when he'd knock off from work, I mean especially Saturday. I'd help to pick up the food. There was barbershop in New Bern, and I used to get my hair cut at a barbershop in New Bern.	31:24
Rhonda Mawhood	What was that like, the barbershop in New Bern?	31:41
Aaron Baker Boyd	What was it like?	31:45
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	31:45
Aaron Baker Boyd	It was like most of them barbershops right now. It was.	31:46
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, you see, being a woman and being a White woman, I haven't been in too many barbershops—	31:47
Aaron Baker Boyd	No.	31:54
Rhonda Mawhood	—especially because men go in there, right?	31:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Uh-huh.	31:55
Rhonda Mawhood	So can you tell me what the barbershop was like a little bit?	31:56
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, just go there in the chair and they cut your hair and shape it, any cut and style you wanted.	31:59
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things would men talk about in the barbershop?	32:09
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, just some ordinary things they talk about.	32:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Do they talk about the women in the barbershop?	32:18
Aaron Baker Boyd	Sometimes, yes, sometimes about women. Yeah.	32:21
Rhonda Mawhood	I've been told that men would play checkers.	32:26
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	32:30
Rhonda Mawhood	Does that sound right to you?	32:31
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right. Yeah.	32:32
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. I've also been told that sometimes there would be some gambling going on in the barbershop, numbers.	32:35
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I never seen it.	32:42
Rhonda Mawhood	You've never seen that? Okay.	32:44
Aaron Baker Boyd	No.	32:45
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, neither have I. I've been told, but I don't know.	32:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Perhaps it is, but I've never seen it, not in barbershops that I've been into.	32:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Were there any parts of town that you weren't allowed to go to when you were growing up, sir?	32:59
Aaron Baker Boyd	No.	33:08
Rhonda Mawhood	No?	33:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	Mm-mm. I mean maybe some store or restaurant or something like that. But for going a different part of town, you could go anywhere you want to go.	33:09
Rhonda Mawhood	So your parents didn't say to you, "You can't go to this place?"	33:24
Aaron Baker Boyd	No. No, no.	33:27
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	33:27
Aaron Baker Boyd	Because I used to go to New Bern a lot of times and I used to tell my wife about places that I knew were downtown, and she didn't know nothing about them. I was just a little bit older than she was, but she was old enough to know. But she said she didn't have no business downtown, and that's why she didn't know nothing about them places. But I told her I used to go down there because I know my daddy had a special place that he bought my shoes from, Sam Littman and Son.	33:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Sam Littman?	34:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. My mother's shoes, too. Looked like that was the only place my mother could get shoes at for to fit her feet. So I know a whole lot about downtown. Had a Black shoe shop down there, John Haven.	34:09
Rhonda Mawhood	John Hayward?	34:27
Aaron Baker Boyd	Haven. Haven.	34:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Haven. I see. Thank you.	34:29
Aaron Baker Boyd	Then there was a tailor downtown, Richard Sawyer, a tailor downtown.	34:35
Rhonda Mawhood	This is downtown New Bern?	34:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	Downtown New Bern, yeah.	34:47
Rhonda Mawhood	Mr. Sawyer was a Black man?	34:49
Aaron Baker Boyd	Black man.	34:51
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Would you go to him for clothes?	34:55
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I didn't go to him for clothes.	34:56
Rhonda Mawhood	Where did you and your family get your clothes, Mr. Boyd?	35:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, we bought most of our stuff from Sam Littman and Son.	35:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Mr. Littman, what kind of a man was he?	35:17
Aaron Baker Boyd	He was Jewish.	35:23
Rhonda Mawhood	He was Jewish. Why did your family go to Mr. Littman in particular?	35:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, it was one of the oldest stores in New Bern, and it looked like that's the only place that he could find something like a good comfortable shoe for my mother.	35:35
Rhonda Mawhood	Were your mother's feet kind of big?	35:43
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	35:46
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Like mine. I have big feet, too. I have a hard time, too.	35:47
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Yeah. Just like these things here, that's a new one there.	35:53
Rhonda Mawhood	This is a painting that you have of New Bern?	36:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	36:05
Rhonda Mawhood	That's pretty. It looks like maybe it was done from an old photograph.	36:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	That's the women's club.	36:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Women's club.	36:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	That's in New Bern.	36:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Very nice painting.	36:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	36:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you, Mr. Boyd.	36:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	That's downtown on Pilot Street. They had streetcars running through there.	36:21
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, my.	36:34
Aaron Baker Boyd	I knew about that because there's a streetcar running there. That's the Post Office, I mean the City Hall.	36:36
Rhonda Mawhood	City Hall.	36:42
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. That was the downtown clock.	36:44
Rhonda Mawhood	Is the clock still there, Mr. Boyd?	36:47
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yes. The clock is still there.	36:49
Rhonda Mawhood	I'll have to look for it next time I'm down there.	36:52
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	36:53
Rhonda Mawhood	Were your parents members of any organizations or clubs?	36:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	My father was a Mason, and my mother, they had another organization called the Pound Society.	37:06
Rhonda Mawhood	The Pound Society?	37:11
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. You have to carry a pound of meat, a pound of anything. Sometimes it was a can of stuff. I think it was on every Wednesday night, they would meat in a church. They didn't have no other place, so they met in a church. That was the Pound Society.	37:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Would they bring their pounds to the meeting?	37:33
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, bring the pound to the meeting. That was for to give to somebody who was sick. They belong in the Pound Society.	37:39
Rhonda Mawhood	Was your mother involved in establishing this organization? Was she one of the first members, or did she join?	37:49
Aaron Baker Boyd	She joined. Yeah.	37:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Were there a lot of organizations like that that would do charity or help people?	37:59
Aaron Baker Boyd	They had another one called Relief Society. Relief Society.	38:05
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things would they do?	38:11
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, you pay your dues, so much dues. If you die, it would be so much paid to your burial. I think that sprung up from your church. I think it was.	38:12
Rhonda Mawhood	So it's like insurance?	38:29
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right.	38:30
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Did your parents participate in that, sir?	38:30
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	38:34
Rhonda Mawhood	When they passed on, did the society pay?	38:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	38:43
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Were your parents, do you know if they were ever members of the NAACP, for example?	38:43
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, they weren't.	38:52
Rhonda Mawhood	They weren't. Okay. Did you join the NAACP, sir?	38:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I did not.	38:56
Rhonda Mawhood	You mentioned your wife just a few minutes ago. How did you meet your wife, sir?	39:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	Her home was in New Bern, but she was born in Hyde County. She would come from New Bern over here and down to the beach, and that where I'd meet her at.	39:10
Rhonda Mawhood	What was the name of the beach that you met her at?	39:26
Aaron Baker Boyd	Let me see. The lady who would run the beach was named Daisy Bryant. She was the one running the beach. Then Ransom and Charleston Robinson run the beach, also. So that's where we would go at.	39:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you go to the beach as a child or was it when you were older?	39:52
Aaron Baker Boyd	When I was a child and after I got grown up.	39:59
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your parents take you there?	40:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	No. They didn't.	40:03
Rhonda Mawhood	So just kids would go?	40:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	40:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. That sounds like fun.	40:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	40:06
Rhonda Mawhood	What was there to do at the beach?	40:13
Aaron Baker Boyd	Going swimming, then they'd have a little dance in the dance hall.	40:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. You told me that you had one sister?	40:23
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	40:26
Rhonda Mawhood	Is that right? Did your sister also go to the beach?	40:26
Aaron Baker Boyd	No.	40:29
Rhonda Mawhood	No?	40:29
Aaron Baker Boyd	Mm-mm.	40:33
Rhonda Mawhood	Was it because she didn't want to go or she wasn't allowed?	40:33
Aaron Baker Boyd	I guess because she didn't want to go.	40:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. What was that like having one girl in the house, one sister?	40:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I don't know. Mostly what my mother had were boys, and some died.	40:45
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you—	40:55
Aaron Baker Boyd	But—	40:55
Rhonda Mawhood	I'm sorry?	40:56
Aaron Baker Boyd	They had some died, more boys because they had had so many Johns till they named one John IV.	40:57
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, really?	41:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, John IV, John II, John III, John the IV. That's my baby brother. he's in Harlem, New York, right now.	41:06
Rhonda Mawhood	He's John IV?	41:18
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	41:19
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Were you born at home, Mr. Boyd?	41:23
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. I was born down there on the riverfront down there.	41:26
Rhonda Mawhood	The house you were lived in, was there a street name? What street was it on?	41:34
Aaron Baker Boyd	The street—after too long, it been named. It was Wales Street where I was born at, on Wales Street.	41:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Wales Street. I'd like to come back to your wife.	41:53
Aaron Baker Boyd	Okay.	42:01
Rhonda Mawhood	When was it that you married, Mr. Boyd?	42:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	I got married September 30, 1943.	42:06
Rhonda Mawhood	May I ask you how old you were when you got married, sir?	42:15
Aaron Baker Boyd	I think I was 35.	42:17
Rhonda Mawhood	35?	42:17
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	42:18
Rhonda Mawhood	So you waited a while?	42:25
Aaron Baker Boyd	Waited a while because my father said—he even told the girl when I married. He said, "I want my son to marry somebody who's going to treat him right." So I just stayed out there a long time before I got married.	42:26
Rhonda Mawhood	So you waited to find someone who would treat you right?	42:42
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right. I think she treated me all right. She been dead about eight years.	42:44
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, I'm sorry.	42:51
Aaron Baker Boyd	I ain't got married no more.	42:54
Rhonda Mawhood	What was it that you liked about her that made—	42:59
Aaron Baker Boyd	Huh?	43:03
Rhonda Mawhood	What was it that you liked about your wife when you met her that made you think maybe she'd treat you right?	43:03
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I liked her attitude and the way she conduct herself. I felt like that she would make me a good wife.	43:11
Rhonda Mawhood	Could I ask, how was it that she did conduct herself? What kinds of qualities did she have that you admired?	43:25
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, she was working at a church. Then she joined our church. She was a member of the pastor aid in church.	43:32
Rhonda Mawhood	So she was a churchgoing woman?	43:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	43:47
Rhonda Mawhood	And you liked that?	43:47
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	43:48
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your father give you any advice on how to be a good husband or a good man?	43:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Yeah. He often would talk to us about it. He said, "I want all my children so they'll be working in the church." And then before he died, he said that, well, he wanted us to be Mason. He said, "Well, I got everything that I wanted."	44:02
Rhonda Mawhood	So you became a Mason?	44:25
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	44:38
Rhonda Mawhood	When did you join the Masons, sir?	44:38
Aaron Baker Boyd	I forgot what year it was, but I know I joined it.	44:38
Rhonda Mawhood	Were you in your 20s and 30s?	44:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right. Right.	44:39
Rhonda Mawhood	In your 20s?	44:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Right.	44:39
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Was your father still a member when you joined?	44:41
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Well, he had been a Mason a long time.	44:43
Rhonda Mawhood	Which lodge, I guess, were you a member of?	44:52
Aaron Baker Boyd	JM Hicks Masonic Lodge.	44:57
Rhonda Mawhood	JM Hicks. Okay. I don't know how much you're going to tell me, but what kinds of things would Masons be involved in doing?	45:04
Aaron Baker Boyd	What kinds of thing?	45:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	45:14
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, they would have their regular communication at a meeting and go through with their rituals and stuff. But I cannot tell you all what they did.	45:18
Rhonda Mawhood	The secret rituals. Wow. Well, maybe I could ask you what kinds of qualities Masons would look for in a man who wanted to become a Mason. What—	45:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	He had to have the qualification for to be one. He had to be a upright man.	45:47
Rhonda Mawhood	An upright man?	45:54
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, to become a Mason. You just couldn't get in there any kind of way.	45:55
Rhonda Mawhood	What kind—	46:02
Aaron Baker Boyd	You had stand inspection to get in there.	46:02
Rhonda Mawhood	You had to stand inspection. What kinds of things would make a man not an upright man, would disqualify a man from the Masons?	46:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	Maybe a drunk, maybe a man living in adultery, something like that. So them would be some of the things.	46:18
Rhonda Mawhood	So these also were churchgoing men?	46:34
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Churchgoing.	46:41
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	46:41
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, that's what it would be.	46:41
Rhonda Mawhood	Who were you a member of any other organizations, Mr. Boyd?	46:42
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I wasn't. I went to church.	46:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Right. Very active in the church. You say that you've been a deacon for—	46:50

Aaron Baker Boyd	—they go preach [indistinct 00:00:03] in the Methodist church. So he was a Methodist and I was a Baptist.	0:01
Rhonda Mawhood	You mentioned earlier that there were police in New Bern, but not in James City.	0:14
Aaron Baker Boyd	Not in James City.	0:20
Rhonda Mawhood	Right. Well, what kind of relations did the people in James City, the Black people have with the police of New Bern?	0:22
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, if anything come up, they just call them in and they'd come over. See, because we was in Craven County anyway and that's what it consisted of, the laws, Craven County. And so that's how we got them. I remember some years back, they had a [indistinct 00:00:58] lived, not in this area, but across a place called Brices Creek over there the way, called—I forget what the name. But he was a [indistinct 00:01:12] and he could come and arrest you. But we didn't have nothing right in here, we didn't have nobody. No. We had mighty little violence happening in here. Supposed to be a quiet place.	0:32
Rhonda Mawhood	Were people in James City ever afraid of the police?	1:31
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I don't think they were.	1:35
Rhonda Mawhood	When you were growing up, Mr. Boyd, how did your parents teach you to act towards adults?	1:43
Aaron Baker Boyd	How did they teach us?	1:51
Rhonda Mawhood	How were you supposed to treat your elders when you were growing up?	1:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I supposed to respect my elders.	2:02
Rhonda Mawhood	How would you show respect for them?	2:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	By speaking to them and listening to them, whatever they had to say to me, not talk back to them or anything.	2:10
Rhonda Mawhood	How were you supposed to treat White people in particular when you were growing up?	2:25
Aaron Baker Boyd	I was supposed to treat them with respect, just like I would a Black. I didn't take them about what color they were. Take them just who they are. Yeah, and I still don't believe in that right now.	2:32
Rhonda Mawhood	You still don't believe in—?	2:55
Aaron Baker Boyd	Not the color.	2:56
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	2:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	No.	2:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you have a hard time understanding—when you were a child, sometimes children don't understand. Did you have a hard time understanding—	3:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I didn't.	3:08
Rhonda Mawhood	—discrimination?	3:09
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I didn't. I just felt like, well the Whites maybe didn't want be with the Black. Maybe the Blacks didn't want be the White. Until the Civil Rights movement come and Martin Luther King said that when the little Black boys and little White boys be walking down the street hand in hand. So I seen that. I seen it. It's coming.	3:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you think when you were younger that you would see that?	3:45
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I didn't. No, I didn't.	3:49
Rhonda Mawhood	So what kinds of changes—this is a big question, but what kind of changes have you seen in James City in the years that you've spent here?	4:00
Aaron Baker Boyd	I've seen a bit lot of change in James City. Yeah. Yeah.	4:06
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things have changed, sir?	4:13
Aaron Baker Boyd	Black, we worship the service together in church. We had White ones sometimes coming out to church. We have had them join there. They soon went away and they had one, the last one, White man was taken in there. He died and his folks come and had the funeral and we sent them some flowers and all like that. So our doors always had been let open for Whites, whether we could go to theirs or not. But we always opened the doors for whomsoever, we will let him come. That's what the Bible said.	4:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Yeah. Did everyone in your church agree with that? Or were there people who maybe didn't?	5:06
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, you couldn't tell no different. They didn't show no different. The last time I was interviewed right in this house by some lady, she asked me, could they come to my church and call me on the phone after interview was here. So I told her, "Yeah." So that Sunday they come there. Then they brought—excuse me.	5:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Excuse me.	5:40
Aaron Baker Boyd	They brought somebody else. They had another one to bring, so we had three that Sunday. So I think more or less, they want to come and see how we operate. So they would treat us nice and everything. Yeah. Yeah. That was the last time I was interviewed right in here.	5:44
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, I have to tell you that I've visited quite a few Black churches this summer and everyone has always been very nice to me.	6:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right. Yeah.	6:10
Rhonda Mawhood	I really appreciate it.	6:10
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. I looks at it all on the television, the Blacks and Whites in the choir together singing. Yeah.	6:14
Rhonda Mawhood	When you were growing up, did you think that you would see White people in church?	6:23
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I didn't think I would see something like that. But now I see different. I see different.	6:26
Rhonda Mawhood	What other kinds of changes have you seen around here, sir, besides in your church?	6:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I've seen changes in the stores. The Blacks, employees in the stores where the Blacks wasn't in there. So it's a big difference.	6:51
Rhonda Mawhood	Which stores, sir? Can you think of any in particular?	7:07
Aaron Baker Boyd	All of them. Belk's store, JC Penny stores, Sears and Roebucks, all those stores, is a big difference. The way they got the Blacks, we got them in there. And you treated with courtesy.	7:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you ever go into stores in the days before the Civil Rights movement, where you weren't treated with courtesy?	7:33
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, I was treated all right.	7:40
Rhonda Mawhood	So you were treated all right?	7:45
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right.	7:47
Rhonda Mawhood	Were there—	7:47
Aaron Baker Boyd	Maybe I wouldn't been treated all right if it wouldn't have been for Civil Rights movement.	7:48
Rhonda Mawhood	Right. Well, before the Civil Rights movement, were there times when you were not treated all right?	7:51
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, it was different. It was different till the Civil Rights come in there.	8:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Can you tell me about any of those times? Would you tell me about any of the times when you were not treated properly in the stores?	8:04
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, just right around the Civil Right come through here, I guess you remember when it come through here or you was young [indistinct 00:08:21] when they come through here.	8:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, I was young. I was born in 1966 and I'm from Canada.	8:24
Aaron Baker Boyd	Oh yeah.	8:30
Rhonda Mawhood	So it was different there. But I read about it. I've read a lot about it.	8:30
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Well it was about, along that time, about '46 or something like that. I remember my wife went into Copeland and Smith. There was a Copeland and Smith in New Bern. And she said the lady trying to tell her what kind of hat. And she told her she know what she wanted. So she just walked on out the store and then she went to the water fountain and get some water and the Black water over here and the White water over there. But that soon went out when the Civil Right movement come to us.	8:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Did—	9:17
Aaron Baker Boyd	Black water and White water.	9:17
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you ever hear of anybody or know anybody who drank from the White water fountain?	9:24
Aaron Baker Boyd	Not until they lifted the ban off of them.	9:32
Rhonda Mawhood	So people did abide the rules?	9:36
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Because I mean, down on the base, now you're told not to be no discrimination down there, but it was Black restrooms and White restrooms down there. Just as I mentioned one time before about the cafeteria, it had a wall between for the Black and White. And they tore that wall out and done everything in, done away with that White water and Black water.	9:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you see them tear that wall down, Mr. Boyd?	10:14
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, I was working there at the time.	10:16
Rhonda Mawhood	How did you feel about that when you saw the wall coming down?	10:17
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I felt like it was nice if I wanted to go and sit with them to eat, I'd go sit with them and eat. I had the purpose of doing it if I wanted to.	10:18
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you and your wife have any children, Mr. Boyd?	10:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, we did not.	10:41
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you have nieces and nephews or other young people around?	10:44
Aaron Baker Boyd	That's some of my wife people up there.	10:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	10:51
Aaron Baker Boyd	Them children there. There's a girl right there.	10:52
Rhonda Mawhood	I know. Beautiful picture. Very pretty.	10:56
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. She was crazy about her. After her mother born, her mother was working at a health department and my wife was take her and keep her till her mother knock off from work and I learned her how to walk around this table. I was learning her how to walk. I think she about 17 now. This is her last year in school.	11:02
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. She's about 17, she's young lady now.	11:24
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. No, we were fortunate, we didn't have no children. But her brother had so many children and we took—one of her brother boy, took him here when he was two years old. It wasn't no [indistinct 00:11:48] that store right there, open that store. We kept him until he got grown. And he got married. And he got married, was staying right here. And we didn't know he had been married two weeks and the minister where he married him come in here one night and say, "I got your boy." And he told us that he was married. He was in and out and we didn't know he was married.	11:30
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh my.	12:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	So after a while, about two weeks after he was married, he asked her "Couldn't she get him out?" She told him no. Said, "I didn't get you in it." Yeah, he did.	12:18
Rhonda Mawhood	How old was he when he got married?	12:32
Aaron Baker Boyd	He was about 25 years old.	12:35
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh. And is he still married?	12:36
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. He's still married. Yeah. I got his picture here somewhere. I got a whole lot of pictures here.	12:38
Rhonda Mawhood	So he stayed with you and it sounds like you raised him.	12:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	We did. We did. Because he didn't know his father and mother. That what he called us. Till my wife would keep on telling him that she was just his aunt. She had to tell him. And every Easter, we would buy him a suit and carry them over there to his mother and father, let them look at him. And his sisters and brother, they would run to him and he'd back off from him. Back off from them. One or two nights, wanted to stay over there. He'd get on the telephone, call us, tell us, come get him. Yeah. Yeah. Robert.	12:50
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Could I ask you why Robert lived with you and your wife and not with his parents?	13:27
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, as I stated, my wife brother had so many children, so we didn't have none so we took him so it would take some of the pressure off, but she didn't want take him, letting him know that she was his mother and I was his father. But that what wound up being, till she had to keep on telling that we wasn't his father and mother.	13:33
Rhonda Mawhood	So he loved you like a father?	13:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Because he didn't know no other because he was two years old when we got him.	14:04
Rhonda Mawhood	And how old is Robert now? Mr. Boyd?	14:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	I think Robert's about 30-something years old.	14:14
Rhonda Mawhood	So he was born around the 1950s?	14:17
Aaron Baker Boyd	Something like that, yeah.	14:19
Rhonda Mawhood	What kind of work did your sister's brother do?	14:25
Aaron Baker Boyd	Beg pardon?	14:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Excuse me. Your wife's brother. What kind of work did your wife's brother do? Robert's father.	14:30
Aaron Baker Boyd	He was working at a place called Medical Arts right there by the hospital.	14:36
Rhonda Mawhood	Medical Arts building?	14:44
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	14:45
Rhonda Mawhood	What kind of work was he doing there?	14:49
Aaron Baker Boyd	He was janitor.	14:51
Rhonda Mawhood	So you mentioned earlier when you hurt your finger, you went to see the doctor. Other times when somebody got sick in your family, what would you do?	14:58
Aaron Baker Boyd	We had some Black doctors here. They'd come out on house calls and all that. Even had one doctor had a horse and a buggy riding the horse and buggy. Yeah, Dr Mann.	15:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Dr Mann.	15:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Yeah. So we had [indistinct 00:15:35] Black doctor. They about four or five Black doctors. Just like undertaker, we had about four of them, I think. We had one Black undertaker had some White person and they had turned Black. And he turned back and the White wanted to get his recipe, but he didn't let him have it. But he turned him back White.	15:29
Rhonda Mawhood	How, why had—	16:12
Aaron Baker Boyd	That's right.	16:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Why had he turned Black?	16:12
Aaron Baker Boyd	I don't know why he turned Black, but they got this man, got this Black undertaker. He was the only one could do it and he turned him back, turn his color back. Now that's for real.	16:12
Rhonda Mawhood	But the Black undertaker wouldn't say how he had done it?	16:30
Aaron Baker Boyd	No.	16:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh my.	16:35
Aaron Baker Boyd	He wouldn't give the recipe.	16:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember the name of the Black undertaker, Mr. Boyd?	16:41
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. IP Hatch.	16:44
Rhonda Mawhood	Mr. Hatch.	16:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	Hatch.	16:46
Rhonda Mawhood	I've heard of Mr. Hatch.	16:46
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Yeah.	16:48
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	16:48
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, he dead now.	16:48
Rhonda Mawhood	How would people pay the doctor, Mr. Boyd?	17:01
Aaron Baker Boyd	They paid out their little salary what they make, I guess.	17:05
Rhonda Mawhood	So they would pay him only in money?	17:10
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Yeah.	17:12
Rhonda Mawhood	And there were midwives around?	17:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, they had midwives. Yeah. Yeah.	17:18
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you know any midwives?	17:19
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, I knowed a lady named Sue. Dorcus White, as I believe it was. And Fanny Garrett.	17:26
Rhonda Mawhood	Fanny Garrett.	17:35
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. They were midwives. It was two of them over here. I know they had some in New Bern, but it was two over here.	17:36
Rhonda Mawhood	How did the midwives learn their profession?	17:53
Aaron Baker Boyd	I really can't say how they did, but they had it.	17:59
Rhonda Mawhood	They might have learned from others maybe.	18:07
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	18:11
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your mother had midwives to her childbirth?	18:12
Aaron Baker Boyd	Right, right. Her midwife was Fanny Garrett.	18:15
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you ever have to get the midwife for your mother?	18:23
Aaron Baker Boyd	No. Father did.	18:27
Rhonda Mawhood	Your father?	18:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	Maybe my sister too. Well, my sister, she's 94 I think. 94.	18:30
Rhonda Mawhood	She's 94 now.	18:35
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	18:41
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your sister get married?	18:43
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	18:45
Rhonda Mawhood	So she's your big sister?	18:48
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. And my only sister.	18:49
Rhonda Mawhood	If you ever did anything bad when you were a little boy, Mr. Boyd, who would discipline you? Who would set you straight?	18:56
Aaron Baker Boyd	My mother and my father. My father, he would get on us.	19:05
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things would they get on you for?	19:10
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, any mischievous thing that you do, you wasn't supposed to do it.	19:18
Rhonda Mawhood	Did anybody besides your parents discipline you?	19:24
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, of course, I have known parents get at a child and he just take what they say and go on because if he didn't, if they [indistinct 00:19:44] home, then the parents would get on them too. During that time, [indistinct 00:19:53] parents raised the children. They raised the children. Yeah.	19:28
Rhonda Mawhood	But with your family, it was just your parents?	19:59
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	20:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you know why that was?	20:04
Aaron Baker Boyd	Do I know why it was?	20:06
Rhonda Mawhood	Why your—	20:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, because we tried to try to mind them, do whatever they say to do.	20:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Who did you look up to when you were growing up, Mr. Boyd? Was there someone who you really looked up to who was like a hero?	20:22
Aaron Baker Boyd	What do you mean by—I looked up to my father and mother and all that. And then elder people too.	20:30
Rhonda Mawhood	So did you try to be like them?	20:43
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. Yeah.	20:46
Rhonda Mawhood	Quite a few people have told me that.	20:55
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	20:57
Rhonda Mawhood	They have nice memories of their parents. Of the brothers and your sister who live to be grown, you said your sister is alive. Are your brothers still living, sir?	20:58
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	21:12
Rhonda Mawhood	There's John IV in Harlem?	21:13
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	21:15
Rhonda Mawhood	And then—	21:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	The other one's in Pollocksville. Riley Boyd.	21:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you still see them?	21:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, I see him yesterday. They took me to his home, out to Pollocksville yesterday.	21:31
Rhonda Mawhood	It sounds like your family is long-lived?	21:38
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, they is.	21:40
Rhonda Mawhood	Were your grandmothers long-lived also?	21:44
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	21:46
Rhonda Mawhood	Is there some kind of family secret, how to live to be old?	21:49
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, my father died in 1950 and my mother died in 1960.	21:53
Rhonda Mawhood	How old were they when they died, sir?	22:08
Aaron Baker Boyd	They was pretty good and old.	22:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Did they live by themselves when they got old? Did they live with someone in the family?	22:20
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, we lived ourself, at our own home.	22:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Mr. Boyd, I know that you're someone who knows a lot about James City. Are there things that you would like to tell me about James City that I didn't ask you about?	22:40
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I think I hit basically some things about James City, about I was talking about the industry that they had in there, the mills that they had in there and that's about all. The farms they had. They had a farm [indistinct 00:23:10] out there in and I forgot what the name was, but they had a farm work out there. That was some of the industrial. And all those mills, them four mills over there. Then people, they would have gardens, had tomatoes and corn and stuff. They'd take it to New Bern and selling it. You could be on one street and hear him hollering, "Corn, tomatoes and beans!" and all that stuff. So that's how they got the living. And most women, they got by, by working out in service. Some of them worked for some White family, good White family. Then some washed the clothes. I know my mother washed some clothes, but my father, he soon stopped it. He didn't want her doing that kind of work. So that's how they managed to get through.	22:48
Rhonda Mawhood	So she gave that up after a—	24:23
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah. So we come from a long way.	24:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you feel like your life was very different from your parents' life, Mr. Boyd?	24:32
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, I don't feel like it was. No, I don't feel like it was because I try to carry myself in a way. And I try to live the life that they did.	24:48
Rhonda Mawhood	If I asked you, what kind of advice you would give to young people coming up today to give them the benefit of your experience?	25:02
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, what kind of life I would give to them?	25:14
Rhonda Mawhood	What kind of advice?	25:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	What kind advice I would give?	25:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	25:16
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, I would give the advice to try to get in the church, stay in the church and work in the church and try to get their education in front of themselves so they can follow themselves. But most of them drop out, maybe like I dropped out and I would like to see them, they go further so they could be able to get just what they want when they finish school. That's what I would like to see.	25:23
Rhonda Mawhood	I think that's very useful advice.	25:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	25:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you. I'd just like to ask you a little bit about your church. Has your church been involved in community affairs?	26:02
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	26:14
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of activities?	26:15
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, we have our Bible study and vacation Bible school. Two weeks during the summer, it just closed out. Then we had a Bible camp out there. We just closed it out. So it almost taking up the time because it's near about time to go back to school. So it kind of kept them out of the street and kept them in the church. [indistinct 00:26:40] in the church.	26:15
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, I saw the church. It's a nice church.	26:44
Aaron Baker Boyd	Huh?	26:46
Rhonda Mawhood	I saw the church. It's a nice church.	26:47
Aaron Baker Boyd	Our church?	26:48
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	26:49
Aaron Baker Boyd	You ain't been in there.	26:51
Rhonda Mawhood	I saw the one across the street. That's not it? Oh, yours is down the road.	26:52
Aaron Baker Boyd	No, mine right there.	26:55
Rhonda Mawhood	I haven't been in there. No.	26:56
Aaron Baker Boyd	I want you go in there. I want you to go in there. I've got me a nice church. What church you been in? Methodist Church?	26:59
Rhonda Mawhood	I haven't been in any churches here yet. I've seen them from the outside, but I haven't been in them.	27:05
Aaron Baker Boyd	Well, we got a nice church. Yeah.	27:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Is the church open?	27:10
Aaron Baker Boyd	I got a key.	27:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Got a key? Oh, maybe would you like to show it to me?	27:19
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah, I wanted to show it to you. Or is she over there to John Moore?	27:23
Rhonda Mawhood	No, Karen, she's going to see Mr. Moore another day. Not today, but she's gone to see someone else.	27:28
Aaron Baker Boyd	Oh yeah. I thought she was over there.	27:32
Rhonda Mawhood	But we could go and visit the church if you'd like.	27:37
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	27:39
Rhonda Mawhood	All right. [indistinct 00:27:42]	27:39
Aaron Baker Boyd	I thought Grace was—[indistinct 00:27:43] was coming.	27:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, I'm sorry. No.	27:42
Aaron Baker Boyd	She told me that she might stop in there.	27:42
Rhonda Mawhood	She might? Okay. Well, she's—	27:43
Aaron Baker Boyd	Because I'll see her tonight. We supposed to have a meeting tonight.	27:43
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. Yes, I heard about that.	27:57
Aaron Baker Boyd	Yeah.	27:58

Item Info

Title:

Aaron Boyd interview recording, 1993 July 27

Date:

July 27, 1993

Creator:

Boyd, Aaron Baker

Contributor:

Mawhood, Rhonda Lyn

Description:

Name: Aaron Baker Boyd; Date of birth: 1910-02-10; Place of birth: James City, NC; Occupation(s): manufacturing; laborer; Residence: New Bern, NC
Informant ID: 255; Interviewed by: Rhonda Mawhood.

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Location:

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 671
2cbad370-9166-402d-a5ef-0a3fb83702a7
behindtheveil
btvnc05009
ark:/87924/r4445ns74
0875218b-8d40-42d9-a29b-aaf7a9e6f585

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Aaron Boyd interview recording, 1993 July 27

Transcript

Item Info

1. Aaron Boyd administrative file, 1993

2. Ernestine Clemmons (primary interviewee) and Aaron Boyd interview recording, 1993 January 13

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Aaron Boyd interview recording, 1993 July 27

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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