Leroy Brantley interview recording, 1993 June 22

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Kara Miles	Okay. Where were you born?	0:02
Leroy Brantley	Enfield.	0:04
Kara Miles	This is where you grew up?	0:05
Leroy Brantley	This is where I grew up.	0:07
Kara Miles	Tell me about it. What was your house like here? In the house that you grew up in, what was that like?	0:09
Leroy Brantley	Normal.	0:17
Kara Miles	What's normal? Describe it for me. How many rooms, and stuff like that?	0:19
Leroy Brantley	We had four rooms, and there was my grandmother and I. I told you I can't talk too much off the cuff. You're going to have to ask questions that you want to know.	0:22
Kara Miles	Okay. So it was four rooms. How many of them were bedrooms?	0:48
Leroy Brantley	Two.	0:52
Kara Miles	Okay. And then you had a kitchen. What were the other two rooms?	0:53
Leroy Brantley	We had a kitchen, and we had what they called a living room, a sitting room, and a bathroom.	0:59
Kara Miles	You had a bathroom inside?	1:09
Leroy Brantley	Yeah.	1:11
Kara Miles	Was that unusual for the times that you were growing up?	1:13
Leroy Brantley	Yeah.	1:20
Kara Miles	So the people who lived around you had—didn't have—	1:20
Leroy Brantley	Outside privies.	1:23
Kara Miles	Okay. What part of Enfield? Where did you live here?	1:29
Leroy Brantley	Well, I would say on the south end of 301. You passed the site that I was born when you came in, into town. Not far from the church. You saw the white church. In other words, this is painted white. Not White per se.	1:34
Kara Miles	Who were your neighbors when you were growing up?	2:05
Leroy Brantley	Well, we had the family of Keys, and family of Smiths, Powells, Lewises, and Hills.	2:09
Kara Miles	Did they have children? Were there neighborhood children for you to play with?	2:38
Leroy Brantley	The Keys had children, and I think they was the only one that had children, really. There weren't too many children around. Not in my vicinity right then.	2:43
Kara Miles	So what kind of things did you and the children that were there, what did you all do?	3:05
Leroy Brantley	Well, there wasn't anything to do except playing hide and go seek, and whatever games that we concocted up ourselves and stuff, and playing horse, and rolling a hoop, and things like that. There was no parks or anything like that to go to.	3:11
Kara Miles	Who lived with you in your house?	3:38
Leroy Brantley	My grandmother.	3:42
Kara Miles	So it was just you and your grandmother?	3:43
Leroy Brantley	Living in the house. My mother lived out in the country, about 10 miles from town, nearer to Scotland Neck then to Enfield, I guess. So I stayed, my mother sent me back to town to stay with my grandmother because she didn't have anyone to stay with, and she was elderly.	3:47
Kara Miles	So how old were you when you came to stay with your grandmother?	4:23
Leroy Brantley	Seven.	4:25
Kara Miles	What do you remember about the country, about living in the country?	4:28
Leroy Brantley	Not too much. It was a normal thing of the day. I mean, a lot of the things maybe that happened, you will find that they were significant things, but I don't, because it was just a normal occurrence. I know one thing, we lived not—Well, in fact, my mother did, lived not too far from a creek, and one year the creek rose and came out and flooded the fields, and of course they had to put the hogs up in a higher barn, whatever you call it, because there's water all around for, I guess, about three or four days, I suppose. And then it receded.	4:35
Kara Miles	So your mother was a farmer?	5:40
Leroy Brantley	Yeah.	5:42
Kara Miles	Did she own her land?	5:45
Leroy Brantley	No. No.	5:47
Kara Miles	So did she share, was she a sharecropper, or—	5:49
Leroy Brantley	No, I don't think so. I guess my father rented. I really don't know for sure, but he wasn't what you called a sharecropper, what I knew about it. He didn't have to do the sharecroppers of that day, get up at 4:00 in the morning and work until just about dark, and before day, and go when the bell rang, and all that stuff. He didn't have anybody over him directing, or what have you. He did whatever he wanted to do on the land that he had, was in possession of, so to speak. So he had no boss, per se.	5:55
Kara Miles	Did you used to work on the farm?	6:52
Leroy Brantley	No, I didn't. I didn't do nothing worth anything. See, because as I said before, I was seven when I left, so that wasn't too much I could do. And as I said, my father and mother, and I think there were two brothers, and finally one of the brothers got married, and two sisters, I think, or three sisters, they went to the field when they got ready, and they did the chores, and what have you. And that didn't last too long, because they migrated to New York. You know how youngsters did at that time, as soon as they could get up and was old enough that they thought, and could get away, they went away. And so that meant that the farm suffered. So eventually just gave up the farm, because there was nobody to till it.	6:55
Kara Miles	What did they do after they gave the farm up?	8:08
Leroy Brantley	Well, my mother, and father, and sister, and the brother, I think they came back to town to stay with my grandmother. They came back to my grandmother's house. That was, I think, in '26. I think it was '26.	8:14
Kara Miles	So why do you think your brothers and sisters left? Why did they go to New York or places like that?	8:39
Leroy Brantley	Why?	8:49
Kara Miles	Mm—hmm.	8:49
Leroy Brantley	Well, it was no employment, and nothing for the younger people to do. I guess in the final sense, which would say probably in search of a better life, more or less. That was the reason. I mean, to be able to acquire the—Not the necessities of life, but more of the necessities of life. My family had a good life on the farm, as far as it went in those days. I mean, plenty of food, chickens, and ducks, and turkeys and all that kind of stuff. See, and peas, and beans, and farm life was good. I mean, like I told you before, they were not under the real strict taskmasters of conducting a farm. My father ran his own farm, so to speak. He did what he wanted to do, and had what he wanted to have. But there wasn't too many people that did that. They went and came at the direction of someone else.	8:50
Kara Miles	Do you know how your father managed to be different? How he didn't have to do that?	10:24
Leroy Brantley	No. I guess it was just his ability to acquire that, the way he thought about it, I reckon. I don't know just how. You see, and two, he was a blacksmith, too. He used to shoe horses and fix wagon wheels and things like that. And prior years to coming back home again, he was staying in Maryland, and at that time, he followed the racetrack, taking care of the horses' feet for the racetrack. Some people, I forgot who they were, I think it was Mr. and Mrs. Tubbs, that had something to do with the racetrack. I don't know how he got there, but he and my mother was there in Maryland somewhere. Aberdeen, somewhere there. And so they were following, as I said before, the racetrack.	10:32
Kara Miles	When about did they do that? Do you know?	11:59
Leroy Brantley	That was before my day. I don't know nothing about it.	12:03
Kara Miles	That was when they were younger?	12:07
Leroy Brantley	Evidently, yeah. Yeah. Evidently. No. I don't know nothing about that. I just have heard them talk about it.	12:15
Kara Miles	What else do you remember your parents talking about that happened before your time?	12:19
Leroy Brantley	I don't know. Nothing. I don't really—	12:33
Kara Miles	You don't remember anything they would say about their lives before?	12:39
Leroy Brantley	No. No. They didn't complain a lot, and weren't a whole lot to fuss about, because their life seemed to have been normal. Not like a lot of people I used to hear, you know what I mean? That they were sick and tired of this condition, or that condition, or the people that they were working for was unreasonable, or all that kind of stuff, and what they had to do and all that. And that I didn't hear from my family. And of course when my father finally left the farm and he came back here, came back to Enfield, came back to town, so to speak, because he was still in the—What you might say, in the Township of Enfield when he was in the country, but he came back into what you would say was the city part, what little city it was at that time, and he established a blacksmith shop here. And of course he ran that until he died, and he passed in 1937.	12:43
Kara Miles	Was he also running the blacksmith shop while he was farming? Was he also blacksmithing while he was farming, or he—	14:20
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. Partially, we'll say. I mean, he didn't stay in there like he did in town, but if people would ask, I suppose they would bring him things to fix, or come by and get the horses shod, but he didn't stay in there. I mean, it seemed more or less that the shop at that time was sort of a part-time supplement, so to speak.	14:29
Kara Miles	Do you know where your father learned that trade?	14:56
Leroy Brantley	No.	15:01
Kara Miles	Did both Whites and Blacks go to his shop when he came back to town?	15:07
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. Yeah.	15:12
Kara Miles	Do you ever remember any dealings between him and Whites? Did Whites treat him okay? Or do you ever remember him talking about—	15:15
Leroy Brantley	I guess they did. He never had no complaint, as I know of. I mean, he probably took it in the manner that it was supposed to be in that day, so to speak. What was okay to do or to say, he probably followed in that vein. He was never a rabble-rouser, or one of those kind of things, so I guess he took it as it was. So therefore, you know, you could get along with the crackers, so to speak, if you did like they thought you ought to do. So maybe he did. I don't know.	15:28
Kara Miles	What were the rules then?	16:19
Leroy Brantley	Blacks over here, and Whites over there. There was a separate—You know. I reckon you do. Do you know some—	16:26
Kara Miles	I do. I want to hear you talking about it. (both laugh)	16:35
Leroy Brantley	Well, it's the same—You know, if you know, you don't have to worry that what mine is going be in there. Yeah. It was the same thing.	16:39
Kara Miles	I mean, I know some things, but I want—	16:46
Leroy Brantley	I know all of that. But I mean, you how it was.	16:52
Kara Miles	You mentioned rabble-rousers. Were there any rabble-rousers?	16:58
Leroy Brantley	There was some people that, some men I guess, and some women, that in their own way, they didn't stand for certain things, so to speak. And of course whenever that came up, White folks would say that, "That nigger's crazy." They'd say, "He's crazy." You know what I mean? "Don't bother him." Well, he more or less was a bad fella, they were saying. Wasn't nothing wrong with the individual, but he just didn't stand for but so much pushing around. So they would say that he's crazy.	17:03
Kara Miles	Do you remember specific examples of people not standing for things?	17:49
Leroy Brantley	No.	17:57
Kara Miles	Or certain people who you remember were like that?	17:57
Leroy Brantley	No. Not by name, but I did know some folks that some of them would fight, but more or less, they didn't bother them too much, because their reputation was out. And of course, from one White to the other, they'd pass it on. What you can do with this Negro and what you can't do. So it just probably the norm, and nobody bothered him, more or less. They'd give him as much leeway as possible. Unless, say, maybe he crowded them too much, then maybe they had to try to tighten his screws down on him, if such was the case. But if he was like that, or she, they gave as much leeway as possible.	18:03
Kara Miles	So there were Blacks who actually fought White people who—	18:57
Leroy Brantley	Oh, yeah. They didn't stand for the certain—You know.	19:02
Kara Miles	Like what? What kind of things wouldn't they stand for?	19:06
Leroy Brantley	Well, they wouldn't stand for only to be pushed around so much. Like say for an instance, sometimes certain people would have children, and they would be of school age. And some of the White farmers would demand that these kids not go to school, but work on the farm. And of course some of the Blacks wouldn't stand for that. They'd go to the field, but their children, they would say, had to go to school, because there were others who did keep their kids out of school to do certain chores on the farm. But some people didn't go for that, and they would fuss.	19:13
Kara Miles	So did anything ever happen to the Blacks who did this?	20:10
Leroy Brantley	No, I don't guess so. I don't guess so. Of course you know that they would retaliate any way that they possibly could. But sometimes in their retaliation, it wasn't noticeable, because it was a underhand deal. Maybe if they were supplying them what was called rations, so to speak, once a week you'd go to a given store to get your rations, to get your sugar and things like that which you need, your coffee and stuff like that. They might have the merchant to shortchange you in your quota that you were supposed to get. That might have happened. But coming outwardly, they didn't bother them too much.	20:16
Kara Miles	So there were no lynchings or anything that you knew of?	21:18
Leroy Brantley	No. I never actually known any lynchings, but I have heard my grandmother talk about lynchings, and lot of fellas in town, they have gotten together, that the White folks were supposed to go down to a given man's house to pull him out, and the Black folks would go down to this man's house and be there if they came. And I have also heard about there was one Black, of course, he went and told the White folks, "Don't you go down there, because they're setting for you all, and they might kill you." So they didn't go, I heard.	21:22
Kara Miles	That's your grandmother?	22:23
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. Yeah. Well, my grandmother, she was old, and I often have thought about it, that I could have gotten loads of information from her, but it was just one of those things that I didn't realize until it was too late. Kids didn't ask the old folks no questions. If they told you something, you listened at what they told you, but to go ask a lot of extra information, that you didn't do. And of course, she has told a lot of times, said she was sold for a barn of corn, my grandmother, and she was in slavery, and I think she said the pattyrollers used to come to her mother's house. They had had her father, and a lot of times he would slip away from where he was and come back where he was staying originally to see his family. And they would in turn come back and try to track him down at times and stuff.	22:25
Leroy Brantley	And now my grandmother's family on my mama's side, she was a Pender. But now, what my great-grandmama name was before she married the Pender, I don't know, see, because I didn't ever ask nobody, you see? If it had been like today, you would ask whatever you wanted to know, but you didn't ask a whole lot of things. So that's as far as I can go on my family, is to my grandmother.	23:55
Leroy Brantley	Now, my grandmother's mother, I don't know. As I said before, I don't know what she was, what was her maiden name was. And my great-grandfather on my grandmother's side was a Pender, and I don't know who his mama was. One of them kind of things. Which if I would have had the knowledge that I have today, I would have found out. I'd have had that information, but I don't know anything about the history. And now on my father's side, very, very little I know. I don't know. I do know I think he said his mother was named Fronie, but I don't know who she was before she married the Brantley. So that's laws. So that's that.	24:53
Kara Miles	Do you remember other things that your grandmother ever told you?	26:05
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. She said, well, she was sold, as I said before, to some man for a barn of corn. Well, I don't know who, because I didn't ever asked her who. But she said she was put off into some other lady's house, from her house somewhere, wherever it was. I don't know where they carried her. But getting back to the same point, I could have found out where, but I didn't ever asked her. And this lady would take the food that they gave her, gave my grandmother, and give it to her children, so that her food would run out before the month was out, and she wouldn't have anything to eat.	26:13
Leroy Brantley	So I think she said that a hog died, and they had this hog or whatever it was in the pot, cooking it or something, drying it up for whatever. And she stole a ham out of the pot and wrapped it up in something, I don't know, whatever, and hid it under the house. And she cut off of that ham for whatever period of time that she didn't have no food. And I guess the hog had to carry her or something. One that it didn't kill her, but that happened, and it didn't—No ill effect on it. So that was that.	27:06
Kara Miles	Any other stories from your grandma?	27:57
Leroy Brantley	No. I guess that's about all. I might think of them as we go along, but offhand I don't. No.	28:00
Kara Miles	Well, if you think of them, just say whatever you think of, okay?	28:12
Kara Miles	Do you know how old roughly your grandmother would have been when freedom came?	28:19
Leroy Brantley	When freedom came?	28:28
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	28:33
Leroy Brantley	No. Not really. Because I don't know how old she was when she was sold. You see, that, I didn't asked, which I could have known. But I think she was probably in her twenties, I would think. That's my thinking, because she wasn't married. And my mother was born, which is my grandmother's daughter, she was born in 1880. So that must have meant my grandmother, I guess, was in her twenties somewhere, I suppose.	28:33
Kara Miles	Do you remember other older people in the community ever talking about their lives and things?	29:35
Leroy Brantley	No. No. Just like I said, it was a custom that young folks, younger folks were supposed to respect old folks. So therefore you didn't asked a lot of questions. If they happened to tell you something, okay, all good and well, but if not, if they didn't tell you nothing, you didn't know nothing. Because you were supposed to be—What was that? Seen, not heard, or something of the sort. So you didn't ask no questions.	29:46
Kara Miles	What are some of the other customs when you were growing up?	30:27
Leroy Brantley	Like what?	30:33
Kara Miles	Well, you just said that was a custom, that children were seen, not heard. Are there any other things that stick out in your mind?	30:35
Leroy Brantley	Well, that was just a whole lot of custom, that children coming up, and say, even up to 18 or 19, respected their elders. But they don't now. You know what the situation is. Do anything, say anything, and all that kind of stuff, and call them by their names and whatever, and that's that. But it was a custom in that day. Older folks was "Mr." or "Mrs." or "Aunt so-and-so," even though she weren't your aunt. So respect, that was all.	30:41
Kara Miles	How about discipline? When you were bad, did—	31:35
Leroy Brantley	You got a whooping. That's all. There ain't no questions about that. You got a good tearing up.	31:39
Kara Miles	With people other than your family, were they allowed to discipline you?	31:48
Leroy Brantley	Well, oh yeah. I have heard that a whole lot, that people did. I know people have spoken to me, but I've never had nobody to slap me or anything like that. Because seemingly that when I would go out and my mother weren't there, my father wasn't there, I more or less would stay in the realm of what the situation was in that day. I didn't ever want to get out, but I never had anybody to slap me or do anything like that. But still, I respected the older folks.	31:52
Leroy Brantley	If I was at somebody else's house, of course, it was a custom, when you go to somebody else's house, and you knock on the door, you take your hat off, and one of those kind of things, and say good morning or good afternoon, then tell your business, what you came for, and they'd tell you to come in and sit down, or whatever it was. Maybe they'd get whatever you came for and give it to you, and that was that.	32:42
Kara Miles	Did your grandmother work?	33:15
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. Sometimes she'd work, would do housework. She had certain people she'd go and work in their houses and do, and at times, like when certain people, I guess, had farms in the country, I guess, and they would kill hogs, and then they would bring them to town, I guess, and she would go and help them prepare the animals, to dry up the lard, the fat for lard, and that kind of stuff.	33:21
Kara Miles	You said most people didn't have a house with a bathroom in it. How do you think your grandmother was able to do that or have that?	34:09
Leroy Brantley	Well, one thing that happened, see, most of the people was not on the line. There was no sewage. See, there was no sewage. But actually, you see, I was born on 301, in town. At one time, my grandmother's house was the closest house to town, so that made it different. You said you remember passing the church, or did you?	34:22
Kara Miles	Yes. Yeah.	35:16
Leroy Brantley	Okay. Well, I lived just about a block from that church, on this side, on the same road, same street now. But when I was a little boy, that was a dirt road, see? And that was one of the first streets that had a sewer line. So by that being, and we were there, and my grandmother had property there, so then we got the bathroom.	35:18
Kara Miles	Who built it for you? Do you know?	36:08
Leroy Brantley	No.	36:09
Kara Miles	So she owned the land that her house was on?	36:13
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. She had a son, because he had passed. But anyway, he got her this. I guess he got her the house and land, I suppose. But anyway, he was instrumental in helping her to get it. So I never heard her say nothing about building the house, so I guess he must have helped her to build it.	36:16
Kara Miles	When you talked about your brothers and sisters who left, why did you say decide to stay?	36:47
Leroy Brantley	Well, I didn't stay. I left also.	36:58
Kara Miles	Oh, you did? Okay. When and where did you go?	37:00
Leroy Brantley	I went to New York. I went to New York in '35 and stayed until '55.	37:02
Kara Miles	How old were you when you left?	37:15
Leroy Brantley	I wasn't 18. I was going into my—I left in January, and that coming September, I would have been 18.	37:20
Kara Miles	And what were your reasons for leaving?	37:30
Leroy Brantley	Just to get some money, and better conditions, and help to support your family and stuff, and get things, and do things that needed to be done. By this time, the house top was getting to a condition that it had begun to leak, and you needed to repair that, and not having the money, and all those kind of things.	37:37
Kara Miles	Why did you choose New York?	38:13
Leroy Brantley	Because I had two sisters there. My two older sisters were there.	38:15
Kara Miles	So did you go and stay with them, or—	38:23
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. I stayed with one of my sisters for a period.	38:26
Kara Miles	And what did you do once you got there?	38:33
Leroy Brantley	Well, the first job I had, I was a bellhop. And then after that, I went to work in a restaurant. And so then after I went to work in the restaurant, I worked in a restaurant the remainder of my years in New York.	38:37
Kara Miles	What did you do there?	39:01
Leroy Brantley	Well, I finally wasn't just working. I finally went to cooking after, from one. So finally, even after I came back here, the whole thing totaled about 35 years as a chef.	39:03
Kara Miles	What did you start out doing there at the restaurant?	39:28
Leroy Brantley	Whatever. Just needed the job, period. And see, at that time, jobs were very, very scarce to come by. And I was making $12 a week, 12 hours a day, seven days a week. And don't ask for a day off. He would tell you, "Take them all."	39:34
Kara Miles	Was that good money for that time?	40:08
Leroy Brantley	Any money was good. Any money was good, you thought. Because at the time here, you could round up 20 men down the street there, and go through their pockets, and I bet you wouldn't get a dollar. And there were no handouts in that day. The government didn't give you nothing. If you didn't work and make 50 cents or whatever it was, some of your folks that had gone nor didn't send it to you, you didn't have it. There was no kind of pension, no kind of nothing. They weren't giving way nothing. No flour, no sugar, no nothing. You was just totally out of luck.	40:11
Kara Miles	So what did people do if they didn't have anything?	41:13
Leroy Brantley	They did without it. If nobody didn't give it to them, they didn't without it. That's all. It wasn't nothing to be had.	41:16
Kara Miles	Would community people take care of each other? I mean, if there was a family who didn't have anything, or—	41:28
Leroy Brantley	Well, they did the best they could. See, now I remember that my mother—See, my daddy, as I told you, was a blacksmith. People didn't have money, especially Blacks that had little farms and little whatever it was. That they would come and bring that buggy, and you had to fix the buggy wheel, and fix it so it would run, and put tire on it, one thing or the other. Well, lots of times they didn't have money to pay for it, so they would bring chickens, ham, or a shoulder, or bring a load of watermelons, whatever it was. There were times when we had watermelons under every bed. You'd have to eat watermelon breakfast and supper. Dinner also.	41:36
Leroy Brantley	And so we was in a position that we had more food than a lot of folks, you see. Because as I said before, they didn't have no money, but they had things that you could use, and they would repay my daddy like that. So at times, my mother would know certain people, a lady that, well, she might have had a husband, I don't know. But anyway, she'd tell me, "You take this and take it over there to," whoever it was, who didn't have this or that. So they would help like that, but that was the only way. It just wasn't nothing.	42:34
Kara Miles	Did things get better? When did things start getting better?	43:29
Leroy Brantley	Things didn't start getting better until about '36, about latter part of '36, when Roosevelt, Franklin D. came in, and I think he spent, what, three terms?	43:32
Kara Miles	I think he started a fourth, I guess.	43:59
Leroy Brantley	Huh?	44:01
Kara Miles	Yeah. Pretty much three. What did you think of him?	44:02
Leroy Brantley	Well, of course, now you know what they thought. I thought he was God, so to speak, just about. Whether he was responsible or not, people thought he was responsible for turning the economy around and getting things on the move, because it didn't even start that you had had a 40-hour week until 1940. Social Security in 1940, and 40-hour week, I think, started in 1940. All the time before that, you just worked till you drop.	44:08
Kara Miles	So you liked Roosevelt?	44:54
Leroy Brantley	I thought he was all right. As much as I knew about it. I wasn't no genius in understanding what he was doing, but anyway, it was okay.	45:03
Kara Miles	Did you vote? Did you used to vote for him?	45:12
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.	45:13
Kara Miles	So tell me about New York. What was different about New York from here, and what did you like about New York?	45:30
Leroy Brantley	Well, at that time, you didn't have no strings, what you can do and what you can't do. There probably were some, but to me, I didn't see them. It was probably hidden. Only thing I did know, I did know there was one restaurant in New York that didn't serve Blacks, and that was Childs. Childs Restaurant. I don't know whether Childs is operating now or not, but Childs didn't serve no Black folks in that day.	45:40
Kara Miles	How did one know that they didn't serve Blacks? Would they say that, or—	46:22
Leroy Brantley	No. I don't think they publicized it. I had heard, now, wasn't anything I knew, I had heard that if you went in and if they did serve you, before you left, they'd break the dishes in front of you, they'd tell me. But I'd never gone to Childs. Reputation would get out, and of course, under those circumstances, why suffer such a—	46:28

Leroy Brantley	They would.	0:02
Kara Miles	What did you like about New York?	0:04
Leroy Brantley	Well, I liked it all. After all, I was young. So, you know. It don't make no difference.	0:06
Kara Miles	What kind of things did you do there? What did you do for fun there?	0:17
Leroy Brantley	Oh, you go to theaters, and go to ball games, and go to dances, and just go to the beach and all that kind of stuff. And just like where John F. Kennedy is and LaGuardia Airport, all that wasn't nothing but a field. Where the World's Fair was out there through Flushing Meadows and stuff when all that was built and junk. Back then in the '30s, wasn't nothing out there. Now, they got hotels and all that kind of stuff out there, one thing to the other.	0:22
Kara Miles	Were there things that you didn't like about New York?	1:13
Leroy Brantley	Well, I don't suppose there was. There was probably so many favorable things that you thought was favorable and so you didn't bother about the dislikes because there's so many things you liked.	1:18
Kara Miles	Why did you come back here?	1:36
Leroy Brantley	Oh, well, the reason I came back was—Let's see. What was there? A family reason. I finally married a lady from here. And she didn't ever like New York and so we finally decided to leave. So it really didn't matter to me because I, more or less, was looking at the livelihood, being able to—I thought I could make a living anywhere. So we finally got down to it and said we wanted to leave, so I left.	1:39
Kara Miles	Did you meet her in New York or you met her here?	2:28
Leroy Brantley	No, she was here. I knew her before I went to New York. Mm-hmm. In fact, we came back here and she finally passed, and then I married another lady from here, and now she has passed. So now, I'm here by myself.	2:31
Kara Miles	I want to talk some about your experiences with Whites. What kind of contact did you have with Whites growing up?	2:58
Leroy Brantley	I didn't have any, not much because, as a youngster, I was taught by my grandmother. She was from the old school, being a slave and all that kind of stuff, and she had all this stuff in her and one thing, that I was not supposed to bother with White folks. And that was my policy, more or less. If they treated me right, fine, that's a plus, but most of the people, White folks I found, treated me okay, as far as I could see. That probably was things they were doing that I didn't have sense enough to see, but normally, I didn't have any problem because, as I said before, my grandmother taught me and said, "Don't bother with the White folks. The best thing to do is you stay away from them because, whatever you do, whatever happen, you going to get the short end of the stick," she used to say. So I was taught not to bother.	3:14
Kara Miles	Did your grandmother or your parents or anyone ever talk about their contact with Whites or things Whites had said or done to them?	4:48
Leroy Brantley	No, they never did. I figured, I guess they got along all right, I suppose, I reckon. I never heard them complaining about this or what somebody of the opposite race had done to them or one of them kind of thing.	5:00
Kara Miles	Did Whites live near you?	5:22
Leroy Brantley	Yes. Whites used to live next to me. We had one family, I guess, lived about 75 feet and had another one, I guess, lived about 50 feet from us, but there was no mixing of the races at that time. By the way, are you married?	5:28
Kara Miles	I'm on my way. (both laugh)	6:07
Leroy Brantley	Oh, you are?	6:07
Kara Miles	Next May.	6:07
Leroy Brantley	Huh?	6:07
Kara Miles	Next May.	6:07
Leroy Brantley	Next May. Shoot. You think this man going to wait all that long time?	6:10
Kara Miles	Yes (laughing), he says he is.	6:17
Leroy Brantley	He said he is? All right. Okay. All right. I ain't going to bother it. Okay, that's nice.	6:20
Kara Miles	So even though the people lived that close to you, would you all speak and say hello to each other?	6:34
Leroy Brantley	Oh, yeah. My grandmother used to go there. They called it friendly, but I guess each person, the White folks and my grandmother, I guess they knew their positions, I suppose, and there were never no conflict. They always come and talk and that. And sometimes you sit out on the porch, but usually, it was the back porch, one of them kind of things. And if she came to our house to get anything, maybe she sit on the back porch or what have you and talk. And she would call my grandmother Aunt Rose, which was what they considered an honorary position, so to speak. She's rather call you Aunt than to call you Mrs, see. So my grandmother became her mother's sister, so to speak. They'd do that. They'd say Uncle John rather than say Mr. John. They'd say Uncle.	6:42
Kara Miles	What did your grandmother think of that? Do you know?	8:09
Leroy Brantley	I don't think she thought nothing of it. It's just a custom that was going on and probably had been going on for so many years and so she just took it that's the way it's supposed to be, I suppose. That's the way the White folks want it, so let it be.	8:13
Kara Miles	You said that your grandmother had told you not to associate with them. Did she ever tell you other things, how you should act around them if you were around them, or any other things about relationships with them?	8:36
Leroy Brantley	No, other than don't bother them. So if she said don't bother them, you stay as far away from them as possible. Don't bother them. That's all.	8:52
Kara Miles	Did those families who lived near you have children, the White families?	9:02
Leroy Brantley	One of them had two.	9:08
Kara Miles	Were they around your age?	9:09
Leroy Brantley	They were, but I never had any contact with them. No, I just knew the children and knew them by name. They were twins, but they never came to my house. So they never left theirs, that I know of, not to come to my house. So just see them.	9:15
Kara Miles	How about when you were still living in the country? Were there Whites who lived in your mother—	9:37
Leroy Brantley	No. There was, let's see, one, two, three, four. There were four families in this little group, say in an area of about a mile circumference or something like that, about four families in that group. And they were about a mile apart. So that's all the folks was in there then.	9:44
Kara Miles	How about when you started working in New York or whatever, what contact did you have with Whites there and what was your relationship with them?	10:28
Leroy Brantley	Good. No, I didn't have any conflict or run in or nothing like that. It was fine.	10:41
Kara Miles	How about other Blacks that you worked with, did they have problems with them?	10:57
Leroy Brantley	No, I don't recall any.	11:05
Kara Miles	Did you still pretty much try to just follow your grandmother's advice?	11:15
Leroy Brantley	More or less, I reckon. I reckon it was common consent, I guess.	11:20
Kara Miles	How about when you moved back here from New York, were there any differences? Did you notice any changes in the community?	11:33
Leroy Brantley	Yeah, I could see that there were changes. As a matter of fact, I was here during the Civil Rights Movement and I was working across the street over on 301 in a big restaurant. And they had signs, "White only," but the thing was you had to make a living, so that was—I supported the Civil Rights Movement, but you couldn't really support it openly. You had to decide which is important to you or how—It is necessity that you worked, so you had no other thing. And during the time—What was that guy's name? Joe Blow or whatever his name was. What was his name?	11:41
Kara Miles	From the Civil Rights?	13:02
Leroy Brantley	Yeah.	13:03
Kara Miles	Martin Luther King?	13:03
Leroy Brantley	No, not Martin.	13:03
Kara Miles	Who are we thinking about? I don't know.	13:03
Leroy Brantley	Well, that's all right. Anyhow, I think he was from Greensboro, I think, during that time. I think Joe Blow or something was his name, or something, but anyway, when they came into the restaurant in the back door and came on in and went in and sat down at the tables and sat there, and sat there, and sat there, and we went through all of those phases during the Civil Rights Movement. Of course, it didn't last too long, but while it was going on, I was cooking over there, but I didn't get involved in it because you couldn't play both ends. Either you worked and abstained from participating in the strike, itself, per se. So I just worked and didn't bother with it and it came out very well.	13:07
Kara Miles	When was this, the sit-in?	14:22
Leroy Brantley	'65, during the—	14:25
Kara Miles	You moved back here in '55?	14:32
Leroy Brantley	'55, mm-hmm.	14:33
Kara Miles	And you left in 1935. So when you came back that first year, was there anything different, anything at all? Did you notice any changes in here?	14:37
Leroy Brantley	Not too much, but it was kind of lifting a little, kind of lifting, but it really didn't start to lift until after '65. And after '65, the restaurant that had the Whites only, of course, the signs came down and the people in the stores started to react differently. And pretty soon after that, they started to call you Mister and Mrs, which they didn't do before. And they weren't crazy. They'd do things to get the money out your pocket. And of course, that's what they did, but the change started after '65.	14:50
Kara Miles	So when you were growing up and you saw those signs, the Colored and White signs, what did you think of them?	15:57
Leroy Brantley	I don't know. I just thought that the White one is for White folks. That's all. It's for White folks. Well, you had yours, just like—Well, we didn't have anything here, not too much, that was marked White and Colored, the railroad station for an instant. Now, there was two waiting rooms. One was Black and one was White. Well, the sign was up there, so you knew which one it was and you knew what color you are, so you knew where you were supposed to go if you wanted to go in. If you didn't want to go in, you didn't go, but you knew you weren't to go in the White one, so you didn't go. That's all.	16:08
Kara Miles	What else in Enfield was marked? Where else were the signs?	17:11
Leroy Brantley	Just on the restaurant, the railroad station, and that's it, I think. Wasn't nothing else.	17:17
Kara Miles	Were there water fountains?	17:34
Leroy Brantley	Oh, yeah. There was a water fountain. That was marked. Other than that, that was it.	17:36
Kara Miles	Did you ever drink from the White water fountain?	17:45
Leroy Brantley	I didn't drink from the Black one. (laughs)	17:48
Kara Miles	Why?	17:49
Leroy Brantley	Why? Well, shoot, I didn't want no warm water. At least you wanted it to be cold if you going to drink it out there in the sunshine, and you—what was—about it.	17:52
Kara Miles	Did you know anyone, did any of your friends or any adults that you knew ever disobey those signs?	18:09
Leroy Brantley	I don't know. I'm sure they did. Somebody did. You know that, somebody, because most likely, you see, they did, for the simple reason, if you couldn't read, you wouldn't know White from Black (laughs). So you know somebody (laughs)—Yep.	18:17
Kara Miles	Do you know, were there Blacks in Enfield who were light enough to pass and did pass, who would go and be able to sit in the White waiting room in the train station?	18:45
Leroy Brantley	Yeah, I have known one lady that lived across the street from where I lived, but she wouldn't go and sit into the railroad station. Now, what she used to do was she would come down in a non-segregated car on the railroad and the train would stop and she would get off. And when she got off, of course, she'd go into her home, but she couldn't—See, there were too many people knew her for her to go in the White and sit down, see here. They knew she knew better, so she didn't do that, but she used to do that.	19:00
Kara Miles	But she would ride in the White section?	19:52
Leroy Brantley	Oh, yeah. They didn't know the difference.	19:54
Kara Miles	Just among Black people, were people who were very light treated differently by other Black people or people who were very dark treated differently?	20:02
Leroy Brantley	I don't guess that much, I don't suppose, but Blacks would have certain things to say about real light folks, like they'd say "light and damn near White," so to speak. (laughs) They would have something to say about that, but it wasn't too many of them. So they'd go almost—Nobody paid too much attention.	20:17
Kara Miles	So when they would say light and damn near White was that—	20:58
Leroy Brantley	They wouldn't—not that, won't say it out now.	21:05
Kara Miles	Okay. That wasn't said to them, but was that negative? Was being that light, being, was that a thing that was looked down upon or seen as good?	21:08
Leroy Brantley	Now, some folks would, you see, because some folks figured that they thought that they were better than they, you see, because those kind of folks on coming up years, most times, they didn't have to work in the field. They was masters' children and they worked in the house or upstairs or whatever. So of course, the real Black folks didn't like that at all. So that was that.	21:24
Kara Miles	Let's talk about your school. What school did you go to?	22:13
Leroy Brantley	Oh, I went what at that time was the—which was listed as the Colored graded school in that day. And I think I started school 1925, I think.	22:17
Kara Miles	What was the school building like?	22:42
Leroy Brantley	At that time, the school building that we had was a two-story weather board school. And there were one, two, three, four, five or six rooms, I don't recall. And it was two-story.	22:46
Kara Miles	And about how many students went to that?	23:14
Leroy Brantley	To tell you the truth, I don't know.	23:18
Kara Miles	What grades? How many grades?	23:24
Leroy Brantley	Seven. And of course, at that time, you didn't start the school until you were seven. So you didn't have no five, five and a half, or six. You started school at seven.	23:27
Kara Miles	And was there a teacher for each grade or were some grades [crosstalk 00:23:49]?	23:44
Leroy Brantley	I guess it was. By me being seven years old, I wasn't paying too much attention whether there was a teacher for the grades or not. Didn't mean nothing to me. As long as I could get out and play, that was just about it. (laughs)	23:48
Kara Miles	Was there a high school?	24:04
Leroy Brantley	No, I told you seventh.	24:07
Kara Miles	So after seventh grade—	24:10
Leroy Brantley	That was it.	24:12
Kara Miles	—that was it. Okay.	24:13
Leroy Brantley	Unless you had some money that you could go off somewhere that had a high school and live with somebody and pay your board and go, and you had a family that was that much interested in you getting an education, you could do that. Something I was going to say and I lost it. I don't know what that was. But anyway, now, as I said before, I think I started school in '25 and, around '26, I think it was '26, or it might've been the first part of '27, I don't know, they built the brand new Rosenwald school. I know whether you ever heard tell—You ever heard tell of the Rosenwald.	24:14
Kara Miles	Mm-hmm.	25:14
Leroy Brantley	Okay. Julius Rosenwald. And that school, a fellow by the name of Sam Pope gave the land for the school. And there were one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. There were eight classrooms and an auditorium, steam, heat, and running water, but not for the lavatories. The lavatories was outside, but we did have a spigot for running water, a fountain for the kids. And of course, during that time, there was a Black private school.	25:18
Kara Miles	What school was that?	26:38
Leroy Brantley	I don't know what name it had, but it was a private school. Some of the kids in town went to the Black private school. There was a hospital in town, too, in those days, a Black hospital. It was run by a guy named M.E. DuBissette.	26:38
Kara Miles	And he was Black [indistinct 00:27:19]?	27:10
Leroy Brantley	Yeah, he was Black.	27:18
Kara Miles	How long did that stay in existence, do you know?	27:29
Leroy Brantley	I don't know how many years it was. I'm not sure as to what year it started because I was comparatively young when it did start, so I didn't—But after awhile, it petered out and he went on back to New York where he came from. And I saw him once in New York after he went back. He had an office on Lennox Avenue in Manhattan.	27:33
Kara Miles	So you remember when the hospital was—	28:28
Leroy Brantley	Oh, yeah.	28:31
Kara Miles	—started.	28:33
Leroy Brantley	Yeah.	28:33
Kara Miles	What did people think of it in the community? What did people think of the hospital when it was built?	28:37
Leroy Brantley	I guess they thought it was all right, I reckon.	28:45
Kara Miles	Did a lot of people go there?	28:50
Leroy Brantley	I don't know about a lot. I know some did go.	28:52
Kara Miles	Where was it located?	29:00
Leroy Brantley	On Franklin Street. Yeah. I know some went there and some of them died there, too.	29:02
Kara Miles	And what about the Black private school? Where was that?	29:14
Leroy Brantley	That was on Pope Street. As a matter of fact, the building is still there, but it's not being used.	29:18
Kara Miles	What did that building look like?	29:32
Leroy Brantley	What?	29:35
Kara Miles	How many rooms? Can you compare that school to your school?	29:35
Leroy Brantley	Well, it wasn't but two rooms, an upstairs and a downstairs. Upstairs was headquarters for all of the various fraternities, the Household of Ruth, the Odd Fellows, the Gideons, the King Solomons and stuff like that. It was those different organizations.	29:40
Kara Miles	You talked about the Rosenwald School. Did you begin going there after that was built?	30:19
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. Well, see, I was already going to the Enfield Colored School. Well, of course, the name was just transferred from the Enfield Colored over to the Rosenwald, which was the Enfield Colored Graded school.	30:25
Kara Miles	So they just stopped using the building that you had.	30:41
Leroy Brantley	Right. That's all. Yeah.	30:44
Kara Miles	And that continued to be grades one through seven or [indistinct 00:30:51]?	30:47
Leroy Brantley	Yeah. Well, after awhile, I don't know how many years it was after we moved in, but they did finally had classes there up to 12. And of course, that didn't last too long. That didn't last too long. And then, when that went out, then there was no high school in the county. So just about this time, Bricks Junior College had fizzled out, which they fizzled out in 1933, Bricks Junior.	30:51
Leroy Brantley	So after Bricks Junior College, Professor Inborden, I guess you heard tell of him, or have you? No, I thought maybe, in your history, somebody might've told you about him. But anyway, Bricks, the building, the place where you are staying was originally Bricks Junior College for Blacks. And it was established by a man named TS Inborden. And they had one, two, three, four—I think they had four or five dormitories. They had a chapel, they had a dining hall, they had a carpenter shop, and then they had what they call a model school, which was for elementary grades only on the premises. So it was a full-fledged junior college for years, from the time it was established up until 1933.	31:55
Leroy Brantley	And after it fizzled out, Mr. Inborden, since he was the founder of the college, he went around and pulled strings with the various people that he knew in the three counties, Edgecombe, Nash, and Halifax. And some kind of way, he managed to get support from those three counties and they established at Brick what was called the Tri-County High School, which was, of course, the best equipped high school in any of the counties at that time because it had all of the library and all that stuff that had been there from the junior college, see. So okay, it started out and they started accepting students in '33, I think. I think they started in '33 or '34, one of the two.	33:34
Leroy Brantley	And then, after they started, of course, the high school students, they used to stay over there in their dormitories. And then it went from one thing to the other and this dormitory burnt. And then, next thing, another one burned. So eventually, they burnt as to what you see now is there, besides the newer buildings. All of the old buildings is gone. They were all brick, very, very nice. The campus was kept immaculately, show place. It was beautiful during those days, but it finally went from one degree and down, down, down, and that's it.	35:01
Kara Miles	So by the time you finished high school, by the time you finished elementary school, graded school, there were places you could go for high school.	35:52
Leroy Brantley	Yeah, by the time I finished, I could go to Bricks, Brick Tri-County High, it was called.	36:03
Kara Miles	That was a public school, that wasn't—Was that private?	36:14
Leroy Brantley	No, it served the three counties. It served Edgecombe, Nash, and Halifax. So all you needed was to get there. At that time when I started, there was no bus transportation from either county to carry the students free, but eventually, they did get buses. Each county did—Funny, I don't know how many buses it was, but kids was coming from each county to Bricks.	36:18
Kara Miles	So you went there to the Tri-County?	37:00
Leroy Brantley	Yeah, I went to Bricks Tri-County High.	37:04
Kara Miles	And that was grades, what?	37:07
Leroy Brantley	Grades, I think they started nine through 12, I think it was, nine through 12. And of course, you could go to a grammar school. They had, as I said, the model school on the campus, too, that you could go to. They had a grammar school on the premises that you could go to.	37:13
Kara Miles	Did you live on campus?	37:40
Leroy Brantley	Oh, no. I commuted every day from Enfield.	37:41
Kara Miles	And what kind of things did you learn there? What kind of classes did you take there? You said there was carpentry and stuff? Did you—	37:49
Leroy Brantley	No, that was during the time of the junior college.	38:00
Kara Miles	Okay. Then it just became a regular high school.	38:04
Leroy Brantley	Yeah, they didn't have have no carpentry business there when it started as a high school.	38:17
Kara Miles	You mentioned the fraternities, all the different types of fraternities. Were you in any of those?	38:20
Leroy Brantley	Uh-uh. No, I was too young.	38:25
Kara Miles	Well, when you came back, did you join?	38:27
Leroy Brantley	No, they were gone.	38:27
Kara Miles	Oh, they were all gone by then?	38:27
Leroy Brantley	Oh, they done fizzled out. That's when I was a kid, as I said before, they had the Odd Fellows and the Gideons, and the Household of Ruths, and the King Solomons. They were societies, some kind that had. They were societies, something similar to the Masons of today, something similar. Of course, they had Masons during that day, but I don't know where they were meeting or where they was doing, but this was similar societies.	38:31
Kara Miles	Did you know anything about any of them?	39:12
Leroy Brantley	No, not then. No. I was in, as a kid, what they call—It was supposed to been attached to one of those, to the Household of Ruth, I think, or some of them, but as juvenile society. I don't even know what it consists of. So don't ask me, because I don't know. I just know it existed. You'd go somewhere, go up there and carry on.	39:20
Kara Miles	Carry on, what does that mean? What did you—	39:52
Leroy Brantley	Well, to be somewhere. The other kids were going and the older folks who were running these various things, they asked your parents if you could join and, if they said yeah, then you'd go and join and do all that. And we had the time come for the initiation, you're talking about—And then we had a ball and chains, and you was blindfolded, and they was hollering about "ride the goat" and all that kind of junk.	39:55
Kara Miles	What's "ride the goat" mean?	40:33
Leroy Brantley	Well, that was a part of the initiation. They pretended that they had a goat because I guess that was something that most kids knew about, was a goat. So they'd tell the blindfolded kids, the other kids would tell the blindfolded kids that, "Come on, we're going to make you ride this goat." That was part of the initiation for the juveniles. It didn't amount to much, but anyway, that was it.	40:36
Kara Miles	So they'd tell you to ride the goat, but there wasn't a goat?	41:31
Leroy Brantley	No, ain't no goat. No. They had a ball, something like a bowling ball about that size. And they had a chain and they would roll the ball around on the floor and rattle this chain and stuff and tell you, "Come on, you got to ride this goat now." And of course, some of the younger kids, they'd be scared or they might cry. Wasn't nothing to hurt them, but they didn't know because they were blindfolded. So that was that.	41:32
Kara Miles	And so then you just kind of passed.	41:50
Leroy Brantley	Hmm?	41:53
Kara Miles	This was an hour or something? I'm trying to understand this.	41:57
Leroy Brantley	Well, go ahead and ask what you want.	42:02
Kara Miles	Okay. So you'd be in a room or something and the person would be blindfolded.	42:07
Leroy Brantley	Yeah.	42:13
Kara Miles	And then the people who were already in the organization would be rattling this ball and the chain.	42:14
Leroy Brantley	Rolling the ball and rattling the chain. And it was a great big room upstairs that didn't have no partition. And people would be sitting on both sides all around. And of course, they had a big desk up there and then what have you, and then they just rolled the ball around on the floor and it'd make noise and that's it.	42:22
Kara Miles	And then after a certain amount of time, after they had been blindfolded for a certain amount of time, then they were in the organization?	42:46
Leroy Brantley	Yeah, because we'd stop whenever they—Whoever was in charge, whenever they decided, they'd stop the initiation, you see, and then of course, you'd unblind. They had a climax that would come. And when the climax came, then of course you'd sit everybody down and then you'd take the blindfold off. And of course, you have put up the ball and you put up the chain and they don't know, they don't see that, and that's that.	42:53
Kara Miles	What was the climax?	43:24
Leroy Brantley	Well, I don't know. Whenever she felt like that it had gone long enough, the ceremony, whatever it was. I don't remember all of the initiation period.	43:26
Kara Miles	And how long would that last, the ceremony?	43:39
Leroy Brantley	I don't know. Didn't you go through no maternities during your—	43:50
Kara Miles	Nope.	43:56
Leroy Brantley	They ain't have none? Huh? I mean, in college.	43:57
Kara Miles	Oh, I just didn't do it. I didn't belong to any of those organizations.	44:00
Leroy Brantley	Oh, you didn't hit any. Okay, well, then you don't know nothing about it then. They should take you back and carry you back, do it again. How did you escape?	44:04
Kara Miles	I don't know. It wasn't a big thing, I guess.	44:16
Leroy Brantley	Well, I didn't say it, it may not have been a big thing then, but anyhow.	44:19
Kara Miles	Okay. (laughs)	44:23
Leroy Brantley	All right.	44:24
Kara Miles	Did you go to church growing up?	44:26
Leroy Brantley	Yeah.	44:29
Kara Miles	What church did you go to?	44:30
Leroy Brantley	First Baptist.	44:32
Kara Miles	Did they meet every Sunday?	44:35
Leroy Brantley	No. Once a month.	44:37
Kara Miles	Were most of the churches like that?	44:41
Leroy Brantley	Yeah, most of the churches service once a month.	44:43
Kara Miles	Why only once a month?	44:49
Leroy Brantley	I don't know. That was the custom. That's all I know. You had a first Sunday church, a second Sunday church, and a third Sunday church. Yeah, the third Sunday church was the Methodist church that used to be up here. It's no longer in existence. It's finally deteriorated and rotted down. So you don't have that, but we do have a first, a second, and we got a church that used to—my church now. I don't go to the First Baptist Church anymore, I go to St. Paul, the church that's on the highway that you passed. That's my church. And of course, we have service every Sunday now.	44:52
Kara Miles	So was First Baptist a first Sunday or a second Sunday?	45:40
Leroy Brantley	Mm-mm, first Sunday. Then we had one across the railroad, which was a second Sunday church. And as I said before, Methodist Church up here was a third Sunday. And then St. Paul on 301 was a four Sunday church.	45:48
Kara Miles	So when it wasn't church Sunday to be open, did you go to other churches?	46:02
Leroy Brantley	You'd go to whoever was having service that Sunday, if you wanted to go to church.	46:11
Kara Miles	Did your parents or your grandmother make you go to church or you wanted to?	46:20
Leroy Brantley	Well, more or less. They would be instrumental in showing you or leading you that that was the right thing to do, more or less, but of course, there's one thing, you needed to go to church because wasn't nowhere else to go. So you would more or less want to go to, where you could meet your friends, acquaintances and stuff. You'd go to church, but most families—	46:26

Kara Miles	Was church an all day thing, or how long did church last? Sunday School and church and all of that. What was Sunday like?	0:04
Leroy Brantley	Well, Sunday was just about all day thing. When I was coming along, you go to Sunday School at 9:45 and, most times, if you happen to be at the church that was having service that Sunday, service would start more or less at 11 o'clock. And then church would turn out, I guess, about 2:00, or 1:30, somewhere in there. Then, that afternoon about 3:00, they'd have another service. And they would close out there, and then you would go home, and possibly get your dinner, and that would be it. Most churches in that day had service at night, again, so if you wanted to, somebody went with you, or maybe if some of the kids were say 16, 17, long in there, their parents may let a gang of you go to service at night, if they didn't feel like going. If not, then if nobody was going and they didn't think you should go, then that was still it. That was the end of that.	0:13
Kara Miles	And so, there were like three services on Sunday?	2:06
Leroy Brantley	Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.	2:09
Kara Miles	Was Sunday School every Sunday or was that only—	2:12
Leroy Brantley	Oh, every Sunday.	2:14
Kara Miles	Okay.	2:15
Leroy Brantley	You see, each church had Sunday School every Sunday. They may not have service, but they'd have Sunday School. And then after you leave Sunday School from that church, you would go to the other church to service. But you'd go to that church, whatever church you went to Sunday School. Why, you would always go there for Sunday School 'cause they always had Sunday School every Sunday.	2:17
Kara Miles	So, when your church wasn't meeting, you would go to the Methodist Church if it was there Sunday to meet? You would go to churches of different kinds of churches, too?	2:51
Leroy Brantley	Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.	3:02
Kara Miles	Okay. When did that change? Do you know when churches here started going every Sunday, or coming more often or—?	3:07
Leroy Brantley	Well, I'd say in this percentage along in the past 12, 14 years. Something like that.	3:15
Kara Miles	All right. Well, I think I'm finished now. Unless you have other things that I didn't ask you about that you want to tell me.	3:25
Leroy Brantley	I don't know about that.	3:37
Kara Miles	Okay. Well.	3:37

Item Info

Title:

Leroy Brantley interview recording, 1993 June 22

Date:

June 22, 1993

Creator:

Brantley, Leroy

Contributor:

Miles, Kara Giselle

Description:

Name: Leroy Brantley; Date of birth: 1916-09-17; Place of birth: Enfield, NC; Occupation(s): food services; chef; manufacturing; Residence: Enfield, NC
Informant ID: 179; Interviewed by: Kara Miles.

Occupation:

Location:

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 357
f4ed7677-6be4-4588-a09e-69038b49d63d
behindtheveil
btvnc03046
ark:/87924/r4vm47c2b
9ad5216a-1daf-448b-b4cf-101c447b925a

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Leroy Brantley interview recording, 1993 June 22

Transcript

Item Info

1. Leroy Brantley administrative file, 1993

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Leroy Brantley interview recording, 1993 June 22

Transcript

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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