George Scarborough, Jr. interview recording with Fox Television, 1993 August 12
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| Chris Stewart | Mr. Scarborough, we're not going to use the microphone that we used before because we want to get the music as well, and there's an internal mic in here, so we'll be able to do that. So, what we wanted to do is basically ask you— | 0:02 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | Could you please hold on one second? Just one second? I want to tag this on. Let's see, where can I put this so it's on. | 0:18 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | [crosstalk 00:00:27]. | 0:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Scarborough, we've done this before, if you could go ahead and state your name so we can get a voice level for the microphone. | 0:46 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Okay. My name's George Scarborough, Jr. | 1:05 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | Can I get him to do that again? Hold on a second. | 1:09 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | My name's George Scarborough, Jr. I was named after—I started playing the guitar at the age of ten years old and then they all named me the blues doctor. So that was my nickname they gave me, Blues Doctor, after I started playing the guitar. I started playing at ten years old, and the law— | 1:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Who taught you how to play? | 1:33 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | My uncle started playing the guitar, he taught me how to play the guitar. Well, he started preaching, and when he started preaching he wanted to stop me. And mama told him not to stop me, because he had already started me to playing the blues. He wanted me to start playing gospel. Mama told him not to stop me, because he already started me playing the blues. So I continue on playing the blues, that's what I just started, playing the blues. | 1:35 |
| Chris Stewart | This was in South Carolina? | 2:11 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Right, it was in South Carolina, the plantation that I was born. I was born on that plantation, you see. And I played music for the master when they would have a party, I would play music for them too, you see. And they would wrap, and all like that, and after they get through eating, they would give me a dinner too, but I would have eaten my dinner in the back, back there. Wait until they finish eating, you see, they would give me something after they finished eating. And I would drive him around different places like that, you see. And he says I was one of his good darkers, you see, and he trusted me. And that's the reason why I would drive him around. | 2:13 |
| Chris Stewart | How old were you when you were playing for him? | 3:02 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I was about fourteen years old. I started playing for them when I was about fourteen years old, and I played through on out fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, and so forth on. And I played for them, every year they would have this big party, they're all White on his farm, there'd be paid picking and barbecue chicken, so forth on. They were for the White only, and then after they all get through eating and all like that, if anything be left over then he would share it with the Black, the ones on the plantation there. That's what he would do, you see. | 3:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Where would you learn the songs that you played? | 3:46 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | How I learned the songs, was, you see, when I went to this two-room school. I didn't go no farther than eighth grade in school. Well the song that I learned was—Whenever you be gifted by God, it just automatically comes to you. And I listened to the songs by the radio, they had one of these old turn, old-timey, what you just wind up, you've probably seen them in a museum or something, you see. And I would listen to the songs, Muddy Waters, the late Muddy Waters, the late Blind Boy Fuller, and a lot of the old players that I learned, I just picked up the songs by listening there. And that's how I started playing the guitar and singing songs. And Muddy Waters was one of my favorite variety, and the great late Lightnin' Hopkins, he was one of my favorites. Blind boy Fuller, I learned how to play just about all of his songs just by listening because he was popular, and they would buy records every time one of them would come out. | 3:51 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | And, you see, you'd be surprised at the guys that played music and wrote songs that didn't go no farther than second and third grade in school. The great Muddy Waters, Lightnin' Hopkins, because they were the far south, like Alabama, Mississippi, somewhere down in there it's Alabama or Mississippi, you see. Blind Boy Fuller was down in there, too. And you'd be surprised at how they played those songs and put them together, and that's how they would put the music together, and it's amazing. | 5:11 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | How it happened all of the sudden, I just got into music and I would be trying to play music at night, late, I'd be having my guitar and mama would run me to bed, said "Boy, stop that fussing and go to bed." And I would go right around the other room and play it low, but she would hear me. She'd open that door and said, "I told you to stop that fussing and go to bed." And I kept right on it, so I'd go outside sometimes at night, and go outside and play. I had an old guitar, the first guitar that I had I paid nine dollars for it. Nine dollars, for it because [indistinct 00:06:34] get something like this one right here. I paid nine dollars for it. I just kept right on, playing and playing, and listening to records. | 5:48 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | And different guys, older guys, that was in the community that was playing music too, you see. So I would listen to their songs, and they would show me how to cord my guitar and so forth on, how to place my things, how to do this and that and the other one. And I just started from that. It takes you a long time to learn how to play a guitar and be real good with a guitar just by air, but if you go to school, at college, it don't take you long to become a musician. Your college years, four years of college, if you start playing, and you've taken music in four years of college, you'll be good in four year's time. But it's harder on a person that just aired music, you know? | 6:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Mr. Scarborough, we've talked before, when we talked you were telling us about Piccolo houses here in Durham. Can you tell us a little bit more about, talk to us about a little bit about the Piccolo houses when you first got here? | 7:34 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah. The Piccolo houses, we used to go around to the Piccolo houses and— | 7:48 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell us what it is, first? | 7:52 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Well, a Piccolo house is just the house, ordinary house, where people live at, you know? And they got, probably, duplex house, family on the other side, and they use this side for the Piccolo house, you see. And a whole lot of people come to the house and have fun. You used to have fun then, and there'd be no fighting or killing or anything like that. Just had fun. Every time, somebody might curse every once in a while or something, but somebody would go up to them and talk to them, because I don't want to hear that no more, and you wouldn't hear it. Or something like that. | 7:54 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Or somebody would get jealous because somebody asked to dance with his girlfriend and squeeze her too tight or something, and he had about two or three drinks in him, you know. And he would get mad, "Hey man, don't squeeze her like that, I said you can dance, but don't squeeze her." He didn't want you to squeeze his girlfriend, just put your arms around her and dance like you're supposed to dance. But don't squeeze and pull her up to you close or anything like that, he would get mad. | 8:32 |
| Chris Stewart | What kind of music would they play at those Piccolo houses? | 9:01 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Well they would have some records and then we would have guitar music too. And they would have some of the old records too. The old blues players, Jimmy Reed's music, Lightnin' Hopkins, some of the old music, playing and dancing around. And then some of us would play the guitar a while too, you see. There'd used to be quite a few of us who used to play guitar, we used to play all night long. I was drinking then, and you'd give me a drink of whiskey, that white whiskey and some chitlins or something like that, I'd play all night long because I was happy, you know? | 9:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Would they pay you to play? | 9:37 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | They would pay you something, yeah. They would pay you something to play. I loved it so good, if they hadn't paid me anything I would be there, I would run there every night if they hadn't paid me anything. | 9:37 |
| Chris Stewart | What part of Durham were the Piccolo houses? | 9:51 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | All over Durham. All over Durham. Wasn't in the upper-class settlements, or lower-class, something like the ghettos and so forth on, you might call it something like that. And we had a good time. Yeah, we had a good time. And I was drinking, and I would get two, three drinks under my belt, and I was feeling good. Every once in a while I'd go out and yell out the hallway one time. I felt good. Not trying to start anything, but just felt good. | 9:56 |
| Chris Stewart | You also told us once about the railroad tracks. Remember the railroad tracks? | 10:28 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | The railroad track was a crossing of Durham. The White was on one side, and the Black was on the other side. That was Edgemont, Edgemont was for the White and Hayti was for the Black. Well, the Black couldn't go over there and the White couldn't come over here. And you better not look at any of them girls or anything, because they didn't go for that at all. So Black had to stay out of Edgemont, and in Edgemont the White couldn't come over across that railroad. Because at the bus station on Dillard Street, that was the line that'd been drawn, that railroad. | 10:33 |
| Chris Stewart | What would happen if you did go over the line? | 11:12 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Get beat up. You would get beat up. If a Black man go over to Edgemont and look at some of the White women over there, see they'd run, pull him out of the house and beat him up. And if a White man would come over here and ask about a Black, they'd carry him around to papa's creek, they'd push him behind it and they'd beat him up. He'd come over giddy and drunk—I was down there one night, a White man walked towards the railroad staggered across there and said, "Hey, I want me a good-looking Colored woman." So yeah, "Well, come around and let me show you one, man." And they carried him around the back and they whooped him good. And they whooped him good. | 11:17 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | And if a Black man go over to Edgemont, every once in a while somebody would get drunk, wandering around, wandering around and going to Edgemont down there. And he'd go round there, and the men would say, "What you doing down here?" Say, "Well, I'm just wandering around." Say, "You know you're not supposed to be down here." " Well, I'm just wandering around." Say, "Come here a minute, then." And they'd take him around and beat him up. So that's what happened between the White and the Black. Hatred was all down through the years. The Black, some of them was hating the White, and the White was hating the Black. That's what was going back there. And so that was at odds. And so I don't know, somebody could explain to you about how it started years ago. | 11:56 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | But I don't know, because I talked to my grandfather, and all about my great-grandfather, on mama's side, he was a slave. He was so until he died. He died when I was five years old, and he was ninety-five. So if he were living now he would be a hundred and fifty-five, seven, fifty-eight years old now. And he told me about he was sold three times in all, and my grandad on my father's side, his grandfather was a White man, because his mother used to work in the kitchen, you see. He was some kind of [indistinct 00:13:39], he had sex with his [indistinct 00:13:40] woman. And that's why Scarborough's named from White. All Scarborough, Scarborough, that's originally a White name. Scarborough. | 12:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Mr. Scarborough, would you like to play some blues for us? | 13:53 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah, I would like to play something for you. | 13:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Get you some blues on camera here, huh? | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah, I would like to play the blues. | 14:00 |
| Chris Stewart | What are you going to play? | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I don't know. There's so many that I—(plays guitar) | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | The great Lightnin' Hopkins. (plays guitar) | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | (sings and plays version of "Milk Cow Blues" and "Blues at My Baby's House). | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | If you see my baby, please send her home, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Blues dark and haven't had any loving, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Since that little girl been gone. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Even five o' clock in the morning, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I haven't even closed my eyes. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Five o' clock in the morning, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I haven't even closed my eyes. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I haven't seen my baby all night, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Don't know the reason why. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Let's boogie. (plays and sings version of "Boogie Chillen'"). | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I was ten years old when I started doing the boogie. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Mama told me I was too young, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | "I'm'a have a talk with your father." | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I heard Mom and Dad talking one night, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Dad told Mom, he said, "Let that boy boogie, honey," | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | He said, "It's in him and it's got to come out of him!" | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Daddy said "Boogie woogie, boy! Do it right! If it takes you on now, I'm'a show you, how, ow! Lawdy Miss Clawdy," | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | "Lawdy Miss Clawdy, Chop my Legs Off and Call Me Shorty!" (finishes singing and playing guitar). (applause) | 14:00 |
| Chris Stewart | One more. One more. It's still filming. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | And Muddy Waters, he put out—(singing and playing version of "Got My Mojo Working.") | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I'm going to Louisiana, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Get me a mojo hand. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I'm going to Louisiana, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Get me a mojo hand. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I'm'a a fix my woman so she can't have another man. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I'm leaving in the morning, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I'm leaving here alone. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I'm leaving in the morning, I'm leaving here alone. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I'm'a get me a mojo hand and I'm going to bring back one. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | (playing guitar) | 14:00 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | (applause) Excellent. Excellent. | 14:00 |
| Chris Stewart | We got a hot blues player here. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | And the late Blind Boy Fuller was—(singing and playing guitar) | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Well, come on down to my house, baby, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Nobody home but me. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | We can fry some meat, bake some bread, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | If you get sleepy, there's a great big bed. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Come on down to my house, baby, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Nobody home but me. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Well, come on down to my house, baby, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Nobody home but me. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Said, the rooster chew tobacco, the hen dip snuff, the baby chicken eating corn and just strutting his stuff, | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Come on down to my house, baby, nobody home but me. (laughter, applause). | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I enjoy playing music. I love music. I love music. I love music. Love music. | 14:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, we thank you very much. | 14:00 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah, I love it. Love me, playing, singing. My girlfriend, she don't like the blues. She's forty-one years old, she's forty-two. | 14:00 |
| Chris Stewart | So you are marrying that young woman? | 18:18 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | You're not wrong. Of me being a [indistinct 00:18:24], you're not wrong. It just do something to an older man. Oh yeah, just like putting a new battery in an old car. Vroom! (all laughing) | 18:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Is that what they say? | 18:39 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Oh yeah. That's the way it do. | 18:39 |
| Chris Stewart | You mentioned before that you were thinking about going down to South Carolina to do some playing with the guys down in South Carolina— | 18:44 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Right, Rich Small. He's the blues doctor number two. Number one. I'm number two. I was going down there and I'd play some with him. We'd get together and we'd just plow and go on so, have fun. So I was going down there with him and I'm going to try to have a good time and all. So that's what I wants to do. But I really wants to try to keep the blues, and the way you can keep the blues is start with the young people, elementary school. Because the blues are dying out. And I want to try to keep the blues by starting with the elementary school, I'm going to go around the elementary school and talk to the young kids about the blues, because the majority of the young people don't like the blues, they're "Oh, that's old." But it's a [indistinct 00:19:47] story, you know? Over four hundred and fifty years old, and they don't like the blues. | 18:49 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | You go to a blues party, or to a concert, you got about eighty percent White and just about twenty percent Black. The majority of the Black, the only one's who really like the blues or any blues is the White. And the Black, they don't care, oh no, they'll rap, something like that. All that stuff. That's what they go on now. But the blues, we're trying to keep the blues. | 19:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Mr. Scarborough, when you were younger and you were playing at the Piccolo houses and things, did you every play for White people then? Did White people ever come to Black places to listen? | 20:22 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | When I was in South Carolina they did. But when I start playing the Piccolo houses, like I said, they were not allowed. They were not allowed to participate or be entertained in the music then. But in South Carolina, I played the Piccolo house, I was young when I started playing, about fourteen years old. I started playing when I was ten, but I was real good, not real good but good, when I was about fourteen or sixteen years old. And I used to play Piccolo houses then. Then White would come, say, the one on a plantation. He would let us have an old house that somebody done moved out of, house deserted and all like that. | 20:33 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Oh and by the way, I'm keep my camera, and I'm going to take a picture, there's three schools left. And I'm going to take a picture. No, there's not three left. It's one or two, I'm sure of one. And I'm going to take a picture of that old school, that two-room school. I'm going to take my camera with me, and I'm going to take a picture. And I'm going to be sitting on the porch in an old chair. I'll probably wear some bib or some of my old uniform, I got an old hat back there that I'm going to wear. Old corn pipe in my mouth or something like that. | 21:22 |
| Chris Stewart | And your guitar. | 21:58 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah, and my guitar. And I'm going to take a picture and I'll bring that back, and I want y'all to see that old school. Now that one's still standing, I think. Last time I was down there, two years ago, I seen one, but I think it's another one. But I'm almost sure that one is still standing, it's all in pieces and all, but it's still up. And so I want to get on that porch and take a picture of that old school, where I can let you all see that picture. And speaking of South Carolina, when I was on a plantation, they let us had out one of the houses to have a party at, then they would come, the master would come and bring some of his friends, and they would listen at the blues playing and singing. And the Black were dancing and all. And they would laugh, and when they'd get through playing they'd clap and all too. They would listen to the music and all like that. But they didn't do any dancing or anything like that because the kind of dance that the Black was doing, the White couldn't do that kind of dance. | 22:01 |
| Chris Stewart | What kind of dances were they doing? | 23:11 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | It was a slow dragging dance, they would call it. A slow dragging dance. The majority of White mostly did their waltz. (all laugh) The waltz. | 23:12 |
| Chris Stewart | Big difference between a slow drag and a waltz. | 23:15 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah, the waltz. It's a big difference between them, you see. So when we were doing it, they'd just laugh and all when we're playing, you see. And doing that dance, somebody would spin around, the womens had on these, they call them a ballerina skirt, they called them back then. Long skirt with a tail way out, and they'd spin around and it'd open up like an umbrella. And they'd spin around and throw them out, she'd go away from him and he'd kind of step and go walking back to her doing the camel walk or something like that. I can do the camel walk, and I can do the truck, and I can do the Suzie Q, and I can do the slop, I can do just about all of them old dances. I can do all of them. I can buck, I can tap. I can do just about some of all that stuff. | 23:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you ever do any of that professional? | 24:17 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | No. | 24:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Buck and tap, and everything? Just do it for fun? | 24:19 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Just for fun. Laughing, going, all of them would get at the house parlor we were at, it would be a ring, everybody would gather around. And then I would go in and I'd cut about three or four step and come out and then somebody else would go in, and somebody else would go in. And that's the way, everybody would be patting there for 'em. Sometimes we didn't have no music, we had a rap like—(clapping a beat)— Somebody would holler and they'd go in, they done had two or three drinks and he was feeling good, he would holler and go in there and start dancing and all that buck dancing was something back then. That buck dancing. And had a good time. Man, they would do the split and all that stuff. | 24:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Were there different kinds of dances that men did and women did? | 25:07 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah. Yeah, different kind of—When you had a party dancing, you get your lady friend that you be dancing with, she got to be a small, she can't be too heavy. Because you throw her across your shoulder, and throw her on your back, and dance around. She couldn't, you would've liked one weighing about a hundred, a hundred and ten or something like that. A hundred a fifty pound lady, that you might then fall. (Stewart laughs) She slips out of your arms, you see. And you might let her fall, so you had to get somebody small, and then you would train her before you started dancing. | 25:10 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | She would know your step and all and know when to make a move, and so forth on. And the way you look at her, she'll know turn when you turn and the way you hold your head or something like that. Well if she knows, that was your partner then. And say, "Well, I'm going to dance tonight, me and my baby are going to turn it out." Say, "We've been practicing and rehearsing all the week." "Okay, we'll see who going to win." And they would have a dancing contest, somebody won a cake. The best dancers, the ladies were baking cakes, there's lead cakes, chocolate, coconut, and all those good cakes. And they would bake cakes and then the best dancer got them. You would win a cake. Yeah, you would win a cake. | 25:50 |
| Chris Stewart | How often did you have these dance contests type things? | 26:35 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | About every week, because you didn't have no players for entertaining, you didn't have any players for entertaining because you didn't have any money, first place. Because, you know, my first job I was working applying for music, forty cents a day, that's not but two hours a week. And that's not much money. You work half a day on Saturday, it's twenty cents, but the man will give you a quarter because you're a good worker worth twenty-five cent. So you done work all week from sun up in the morning to sundown, for two dollar and twenty-five cents. And work, work, work. | 26:37 |
| Chris Stewart | Picking? | 27:17 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Work. No, no, working in the field. | 27:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Picking cotton? | 27:20 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah, the plows were for mules, then, you see. And picking cotton, well you pick cotton by the pound. Yeah, pick cotton by the pound. You weren't on his time then, you was on your time picking cotton. Because they would weigh your cotton, and you'd get paid according to pound that you pick. | 27:22 |
| Chris Stewart | How much cotton could you pick? | 27:38 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I went far as three hundred pounds. | 27:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, you were a good picker. | 27:53 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah, three hundred pound. Three hundred pound. And so I would three dollars, because a hundred pound of cotton would bring you one dollar. So I picked three hundred pounds of cotton, I would make three dollars that day, and that was money. That was money. Some guys would pick four hundred pound, five. Yeah, they could pick four hundred pounds of cotton. And some ladies could pick that. I would pick, I went high as three hundred pounds. But that's hard picking three hundred pounds of cotton. | 27:53 |
| Chris Stewart | And how old were you when you did that? | 28:12 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Maybe, sixteen and seventeen years old, something like that. Sixteen, seventeen years old. | 28:23 |
| Chris Stewart | In the fields, did you ever have contests, who could pick the most? | 28:32 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Right, have contests see who pick the most. And you would get something that, when they get through weighing up at night, the master would give the one that could pick the most cotton, he would give him, you know, fifty cents. | 28:37 |
| Chris Stewart | What about any little friendly wagers between men? Like the guy next to you, would you have any friendly little contests between two men, say? | 28:50 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | You mean picking cotton? | 29:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. | 29:01 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah. You would have the first, the one with the most cotton, the one next to you. There's only two what would get, the one that won fifty mores and the one, the second large, and he would get something. If not that, he would buy us some whiskey, and give you a big drink of whiskey. Says I'll buy. South Carolina whiskey was half pint bottles, you get a half a pint. You could get a pint, but you sell half a pint. North Carolina is pints only, and up from that, even buy you half a pint of whiskey. He'll say, "Here's something for you. Half pint of whiskey." And you'll have half a pint of whiskey, and you take a big swig of that you're feeling good. And then you would give you buddy the next one off, you'll drink together, you see. And that's the way we do. | 29:02 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | We had a good time, but we didn't have any money. We was happy, try to be happy, and we was happy, but we didn't have a whole lot of money. But we had a lot of fun, and we enjoyed, and we had a lot of kick out of it. Yeah, we really enjoyed the fun that we had. He would let us have the truck on the weekend to go into town, we was nine miles from town, and everybody would go after finishing picking cotton on Saturday. One o'clock, we'd go home and take the bath and all, go into town and go to the ball game. I used to play baseball too, we had a baseball team on the plantation too. | 30:04 |
| Chris Stewart | What position did you play? | 30:57 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I was catcher. Yeah, I was catcher. I was in that rough spot. | 30:57 |
| Chris Stewart | You had a good arm. | 30:57 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah. Oh, yeah. I could see in a squat and throw a man out [indistinct 00:30:58] looking at a girl. I was good. Yeah. And all the girls— | 31:02 |
| Chris Stewart | What was the name of your team? | 31:02 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | The Colored Player. | 31:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, but for the name of the plantation. | 31:02 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | The plantation was Player. | 31:02 |
| Chris Stewart | And what were you going to say about all the girls? | 31:02 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | The girls would be yelling and going on, when you go up there to bat. Says "If you hit that ball, I'll hug your neck after the game." Says, "You hit that ball, Junior." Yeah, Junior, says—You know, I'm George Scarborough Jr. Says, "If you hit that ball, I'll hug your neck after the game." Within inside of me, "I'm going to hit that ball." That's what was inside of me. I'm going to hit that ball. And I would hit that ball, because I wanted that hug. I wanted that hug from that pretty girl standing on the side over there yelling and going on. And that's what I wanted, I wanted that hug. | 31:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Sure. What young man wouldn't? | 31:48 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah, I wanted that hug from that pretty girl right there. And so I would hit the ball. I would hit it. And all the ladies would jump up and laugh and go on, and they would say, "Which one do you want the hug from?" And I would—Because my children's mama was out there, I was dating her, and I had to say her because of I didn't—Yeah, I was dating her then. I was young. But she was my girl and my children's mama right there. Sweet children, they mama. Yeah, we started out in elementary school. Yeah. They called it puppy love back when it started, back then we called it the puppy love. So yeah, we started that back then, the puppy love. | 31:48 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | But she would be at every game because she knew how the girls would act when you would hit that ball. Want a hug and all. And she would get after her, and she'd say, "You want a hug? He don't want a hug, that's for sure. He is mine." That's what she would say, "He's mine."(Stewart laughs) And said, "You're not going to get no hugs from him." From the side, from the plantation we were from, everybody would be there, she would have to support you in case a fight starts or something. And all the men, some of them would jump in and say, "Yeah, you want a hug, we ain't your buddies." And all that, you see. | 32:42 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | They was afraid, of going off Player plantation, because there were so many of us in that plantation. We'd go so bad, and we'd just take over. Yeah. They was afraid of us, you see. So we had nice time and all like that, but we didn't have much money. We didn't have good clothes and all like that, because the share-cropping was going on and all like that. Nothing much for you to have if you had fun. Because I remember mama bought a suit for me and my brother, and we had to wear a suit together, because she couldn't buy two. We wore the same size suit, so we couldn't buy two suits. She couldn't buy two suits. We wore the same suit. It was rough. But people said it was the good old days, but I don't know about that. I don't know about that. | 33:15 |
| Chris Stewart | Sounds like you've got some good days coming up. | 34:19 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah. Yeah. So I told my girlfriend—She says, "You's an older man now, what about that?" And I've been married twice, this will be my third marriage. I said, "Honey, you're not going to get the leftovers, I saved the best for last." | 34:23 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, Mr. Scarborough, our gentlemen, our television gentleman's Rhett, he's got to go on to— | 34:41 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | I think actually, what I'd like to do, is have you guys ask him—I want to get, because I've basically had to film this whole event here, so what I'd like to do is have you guys ask him a couple of questions. And I'm going to film you asking questions. And before you give the answers, sir, if you could let me come around and get focused with you, then we'll let you answer the question. Two questions that I have in mind, and I realize you kind of covered this in some ways already. But there's just a couple things I want to make sure I had on tape. | 34:46 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | One was playing the blues back then and playing in the clubs. One of you asked a question, very interesting, about letting White people come in that, and I'd like to get his reaction, from how people—Did any White people every come up to him and talk to him about his music, or did they come watch him play, stuff like that. That kind of thing, being that he's a musician. The segregate— | 35:14 |
| Kara Miles | Do you have an answer to that? I mean, I'm not sure that's— | 35:42 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | What's that about? | 35:42 |
| Kara Miles | I mean, I don't know what what you're going to get different from what he already told us— | 35:47 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | Because I didn't get it on tape. I was shooting one of you guys when—That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that if we look at the period now, he's talking about all these things, how Whites are on one side, Blacks are on another side of the tracks, and that kind of thing. And you go to concerts now it's a mixed audience, it's no big deal. I mean, what was is it like playing then? I just want to get that on tape. | 35:51 |
| Chris Stewart | You can ask that— | 36:12 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | What I'm going to do is, when you ask a question, I'm going to turn the camera on you guys, you guys are going to ask the question. And then— | 36:14 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | I'll wait. | 36:20 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | You wait, and I'll pause and tell you, "If you want to answer that, that'll be great." The other question I just want to ask is, why don't we do this one first, let's do this one first. | 36:23 |
| Chris Stewart | Because we already asked this question, Mr. Scarborough. | 36:30 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | If you can keep the guitar just like you had it, that would be great. We don't want to change anything here. Yeah, just want to tag this up. | 36:33 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | You want the guitar to be down and— | 36:43 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | No, no, no, the way you had it— | 36:43 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | —you want me to play a song— | 36:43 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | I already got you playing. I need you to hold it though, the way you had it just a second ago. Just a second ago you had it on your lap. Yeah, that's good. I need the camera toward you guys. | 36:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Mr. Scarborough, he just wants—I'm going to ask you a question I already asked, but he didn't get it on tape. So that's why I'm asking you again. | 37:03 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Okay. He said he's going to aim at you first, and then to me. | 37:09 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | I'm going to let her ask a question, and then I'm going to turn around and I'm going to get your answer. And I'll tell you when you can go ahead and answer. The thing is, you're not going to look at me, you're going to look at them. They're going to ask you the questions, and I think you had your guitar, I think you were leaning it up a little bit different. Yeah, just the way you had it before. You can just relax. | 37:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Mr. Scarborough— | 37:31 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | Wait, we have a thing here, we need to get you in focus. Give me a 3, 2, 1. Can you give me a count? | 37:31 |
| Chris Stewart | 3, 2, 1. | 37:46 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | Mr. Scarborough, could you give me a 3, 2, 1? | 37:54 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | 3, 2, 1. 3, 2, 1. | 37:55 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | That's very good. Okay, go ahead, Annette, ask the question. | 38:00 |
| Kara Miles | Mr. Scarborough, you mentioned that, to date, the blues audience is mostly White. Back when you were playing, when you first started playing, when you were playing here in Durham, the Piccolo houses, did White people come to the shows then? | 38:01 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Well, no, when I first started playing— | 38:13 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | That's good, that's good. Hold on, I'm just going to get you in focus, then you're just going to talk to them. Don't even pay attention to me. As soon as I get you in focus—You just go ahead and answer that question. | 38:16 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Well— | 38:28 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Okay, go ahead. | 38:30 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Well, when I was playing in Durham, when I first started playing in Durham, the White people didn't come to hear me play. And no one was playing, it was quite a few little players now, but the only blues player in Durham now is me and John Dee Holeman, and he's the blues player too. But when I was playing, the White people didn't come to the house parties in here Durham when I first started playing. Because, just like I said, it wasn't integrated then, and the White had to be on one side of the track, and the Black on the other side of the track. And that's the way that they were back in those days. But when I was playing in South Carolina, then on the plantation, then the master would bring his friends to the house where we had the parties at. After I'd get through playing and all, and the dancing, they would laugh and pat their hands, you know, give us a rap and all like that. They enjoyed it. Yeah. | 38:34 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | That's great. The other question I had, and this time you can just ask it and he can answer it, about segregation maybe. We've talked about some real good things, but also I think maybe what—Any painful memories that he may have of segregation, of the feelings, things like that. | 39:48 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you want to talk about that? | 40:12 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah, I will. | 40:13 |
| Chris Stewart | I'm not sure if we asked you this during the, when we talked to you earlier, but do you remember any time while you were coming up during segregation when you thought people treated you like you were a second-class citizen? | 40:20 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yes, I remember. Because I was working after—When they first built the Lakewood shopping center, and it was only two Blacks working there, and they had a restaurant there. And they had a meeting, and they says, "Everybody that works here must be called mister or miss." And that was for the White only, not the Black. And I said, well, that would be fine. But what about me? And the lady that was working there, which was a Black lady, says, "We not talking about you. I'm talking about the White." And that was a hurting down inside. | 40:38 |
| Chris Stewart | And when was that? | 41:34 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | You're talking about, that was before the marching and going on downtown. When they first started integrating, you know, marching downtown. That was sometime during that time. Back during that time. When they would've had that marching downtown, then at that bus station there too. So you had the same thing at the bus station over there too. White was on one side, and the Black was on one side. And then the White, they had a scene there, the Black wandered on the White side and it was a big war over there. And down at the bus station. But I remember all of it, because I've been in Durham almost forty year. And so, forty years, I've been hearing all, just about what happened around here during the time before integration started. So I had a lot of them. I had a job that I'd go on, it was just like in South Carolina—When a White kid graduate from high school, the master would say, "You got to start 'Mister' now. Him or her." | 41:35 |
| Chris Stewart | You got to start what? | 42:53 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Mister. Calling her mister or miss. Because he just graduated from high school. I didn't want to do it. They would call me John or George, them little small children. My daddy was an old man, they called him George, you've seen that I'm Jr. George and John, our mama was Ma, you see. But you had to Mister the youngster when they graduated from high school. And when we didn't have no school when I first started, because Blacks didn't have no school in county. We had no school at all because the Whites said we didn't need to go to school. "They don't need to go to school, let them work in the field." And so that's what we had then. Just like I said, that school that they built, the Black lived at school, had a two-room log cabin school. They went in their woods and got the logs and built a log cabin school. And that's what we had. But the county didn't build a school until way late. And the first school was a church. They saw them [indistinct 00:44:08] that one down and we waited a long time until the ones that built the school completed the school. | 42:56 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Because they said we didn't need to go to school, we work in the fields. "You're supposed to work in the fields, that's what you're supposed to do. You ain't supposed to go to no school." And I can't hold mom and dad for it, because they couldn't do nothing about it. We'd be ready to go to school in the morning, and they would [indistinct 00:44:36] would call and said "they cannot work in the field." I mean, "They can't go to school this morning, they got to work in the field." And that was it. You better not call for anything, and smile on your face. | 44:08 |
| Chris Stewart | What would happen if you would? If you would talk, what would happen if you— | 44:48 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | They called that talking back at a White man. "You don't talk like that at a White man, you heard what I said?" That's what he would say. Said you don't talk like that at White men. That's the word they use. Talking back at a White man. And you didn't talk back at a master. No, "Yes, sir. Yes, sir." There was a smile on your face. "Yes, sir." And you had to have that smile in your field. You couldn't be frowning, and all like that. They called it, that you was talking back at a White man. And if he put you off his plantation, and you had to go to another plantation, it would be harder because the word would travel with you. Or ahead of you. And that's what you would have. But they said, just like I said, they said it was the good old days. But it wasn't. It wasn't. | 44:54 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | The pain that I suffer with, I thinks about it now. But I don't hold it against the White now. Older people, they're gone on. That's something I would never hold it against the White now, with how they treated me before. I [indistinct 00:46:18]. But I do thinks about it, and that's it. But I do— | 45:51 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | Yeah, thank you very much. | 0:02 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Okay. All righty. Okay. You going to run that this afternoon? Will that be— | 0:05 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | This will run probably tonight at 10:00. This is the Fox. | 0:10 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Fox. | 0:13 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | All right. Our news is at 10:00. | 0:14 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Okay, at 10:00. | 0:16 |
| Chris Stewart | Channel 22. | 0:16 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Channel 22. | 0:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Mr. Scarborough, we'd like to see if we can use this tape as well in our collection. The tape that we just did today. But we need to get your permission again to do this. Of course, we have this form. | 0:22 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Right. Be fine. I ain't going to lie, though. I'm getting my daughter-in-law to write a book. But it'll be some time late in the year, probably next year. | 0:44 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah? | 0:59 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Yeah. And here's something. The name of the book will be After Slave. | 0:59 |
| Kara Miles | Oh, wow. | 1:03 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | African Slave. After Slave. I'm going to try to write a book and I'm going to try to get it together, and sometime— | 1:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, you're going to come and— | 1:13 |
| Kara Miles | —When you get it, we want to read it— | 1:13 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Right. Right. So that won't be on Channel 11, won't it? | 1:16 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | Channel 22. It's the Fox station. | 1:20 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | It'll be on Channel 22. | 1:22 |
| Speaker 4 (Fox Television Employee) | Right. At 10:00. | 1:22 |
| George Scarborough, Jr. | Channel 22. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to write that book, and my daughter is going to write it for me. My granddaughter. I want to get— | 1:36 |
Item Info
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