George Scarborough, Jr. interview recording, 1993 May 27

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George Scarborough Jr.	That's right.	0:01
Chris Stewart	Don't we?	0:01
George Scarborough Jr.	That's right. Now, tell me when you want it turned on and started—	0:01
Chris Stewart	Oh, tell you what?	0:13
George Scarborough Jr.	When you going to start recording?	0:15
Chris Stewart	Oh, it's recording now. But they filter out the stuff like this, so, we don't have to—We're just going to leave the tape recorder on and talk to you for a while.	0:17
George Scarborough Jr.	You want me to explain about my history? You going to ask me some questions?	0:29
Chris Stewart	I'm going to ask you questions.	0:34
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay, go ahead.	0:35
Chris Stewart	That'll be helpful.	0:35
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay. All right.	0:36
Chris Stewart	If you have stories that you want to tell us that we don't necessarily ask you about, you just go ahead and let us know.	0:36
George Scarborough Jr.	All right.	0:45
Chris Stewart	Okay?	0:45
George Scarborough Jr.	All right. Okay.	0:45
Chris Stewart	You said that you moved to Durham 39 years ago.	0:47
George Scarborough Jr.	39. 39.	0:52
Chris Stewart	You told me on the phone that you were in South Carolina?	0:52
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, I was born in South Carolina on a plantation.	0:57
Chris Stewart	What part of South Carolina?	1:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh, it's a place out from Sumter, South Carolina called Bishopville, South Carolina.	1:02
Chris Stewart	Bishopville?	1:06
George Scarborough Jr.	Bishopville. B-I-S-H-O-P-V-I-L-L-E.	1:08
Chris Stewart	Wow. And you were on a plantation [indistinct 00:01:13]?	1:12
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I was on a plantation.	1:13
Chris Stewart	How big was it?	1:14
George Scarborough Jr.	The plantation was about—I think it's about three miles long.	1:16
Chris Stewart	Oh.	1:22
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, about three miles long.	1:23
Chris Stewart	Pretty big.	1:24
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, it's a big plantation. About three miles long.	1:25
Chris Stewart	Yeah? And how many people were working on it?	1:28
George Scarborough Jr.	I would say possibly about hundred people.	1:32
Chris Stewart	Was your whole family working on it?	1:38
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. My family was there, but it's just immediately family. It wasn't the grandfather, any of those. It was my immediate family, my mother and father and eight children.	1:40
Chris Stewart	Eight children?	1:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, eight children.	1:55
Chris Stewart	What, brothers or sisters?	1:56
George Scarborough Jr.	Four brothers and four sisters.	1:58
Chris Stewart	Oh.	2:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	2:01
Chris Stewart	That's nice and even.	2:01
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. Four brothers and four sisters.	2:02
Chris Stewart	And so how long were you in Bishopville?	2:05
George Scarborough Jr.	I was in Bishopville about, I think when I come to Durham I was about 20—Somewhere around 20—21 or 22.	2:08
Chris Stewart	Years old?	2:24
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, right. 21 or 22 years old.	2:24
Chris Stewart	So did you spend your whole childhood and all your teen years in Bishopville?	2:27
George Scarborough Jr.	Right here, yeah. The teenage, my teenage, I spent that in Bishopville. But after the teenage, I spent it here in Durham, around Hayti, around here. I was raised up around in the Hayti area around there.	2:32
Chris Stewart	Oh yeah?	2:45
George Scarborough Jr.	All around in here. From Hayti around to Fayetteville Street, because Central down there, I spent all my time right around in this area, right over here.	2:46
Chris Stewart	Oh, did you come here alone or did you—	2:55
George Scarborough Jr.	My brother was here first, and he left the plantation when he was 16 years old. And he left and went to Wilmington, and he had to put his age up to get a job, because you had to be 18 then. So he put his age up to get a job. And so he worked to Wilmington at the shipyard.	2:59
Chris Stewart	Oh, he did?	3:28
George Scarborough Jr.	After World War II, during the World War II. During the World War II, he was at the shipyard in Wilmington. And then after the shipyard closed down, and all the jobs, it wasn't enough jobs for everybody in Wilmington, North Carolina. And so he left and went to New York, and there's a whole lot of them that went different direction. So he left and went to New York. So he stayed in New York six years. So he met this young lady up there and they got married. So the reason he wind up in Durham, because part of her people was here in Durham.	3:28
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	4:09
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, part of her people was here in Durham. So they wanted to leave the big city and come to a smaller place, you see. So he worked at Liggett & Myers for 35 years. He retired from Liggett & Myers Tobacco Company. He was there 35 years. Okay? But before that, I wanted to come up where he was at. And after I got—Well, what happened, he stayed home when working and help out with the family, the little money he was making—	4:09
Chris Stewart	Back in Bishopville [indistinct 00:04:47]?	4:46
George Scarborough Jr.	Back in Bishopville, he stayed and help out with the family. And after he left and went to Wilmington, he would work and send money back to help to support the family. And then I got old enough, I wanted to leave, because I wanted to do something for the family too. So I left. And when I come to Durham, where he was at, then I would work and I'd send something back to family. But I had gotten married, and I got married at a young age. So I left my family in South Carolina for a month, then I went back and picked my family up and brought them up here to Durham. And so all of them went to the schools here, Spaulding Elementary School, the children did. And the Hillside.	4:47
George Scarborough Jr.	And my baby daughter, she graduated from law school in Central. And she went to school here too, my daughter, and my son did too. And then he left and went to Army when he got old enough. And he stayed in the Army for four years. And he went to school in Germany, spent his time in Germany. So, after he got out of the service, then he went back to school here, you see. And after he finished school here and all, then he decided to get married. So he got married, and him and his wife moved to Atlanta, Georgia. So that's where they got their home at. But I—	5:43
Chris Stewart	Did you still have brothers and sisters in South Carolina? Do you still have family back there? Did your mom and dad stay in South Carolina [indistinct 00:06:35]?	6:27
George Scarborough Jr.	Why, Mom and Dad stayed in South Carolina until they passed. Mother died first, and my daddy died one year after Mother passed. Daddy, he's passed. And so all of my sisters, I have a sister and a brother in South Carolina.	6:34
Chris Stewart	Still?	6:57
George Scarborough Jr.	Giant, right, still in South Carolina. But I have one sister in Washington D.C., and two sisters in New York. And one brother, he passed.	6:58
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	7:14
George Scarborough Jr.	He got burnt real bad when he was small, and he swallowed some of the fire. And once ever you swallow fire, you don't live. So he died at the age, I believe, he was about 14.	7:14
Chris Stewart	How old were you when he died?	7:32
George Scarborough Jr.	I was somewhere around—I would say he was about 13 years old, and I was somewhere around 14 or 15.	7:34
Chris Stewart	So you remember it?	7:50
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh yeah, I remembered where I didn't want to put him out with some water. I took a bucket of water and put him out to keep him from burning completely up.	7:51
Chris Stewart	Where was the fire and how—	8:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, he used to work at a garage, washing parts with gasoline and oil and stuff. And he had some oily clothes on, and stand into a fireplace, the old fireplace in the old wooden houses, which was very cold houses, cracks in the floor and in the wall, the ceiling and all. You had to stand close up to the chimbly to get warm. So he got warm and caught fire. And he run and jumped in the bed, and we jumped in the bed, I went—	8:01
George Scarborough Jr.	In the country, long time ago, they would keep water, the old people would keep water buckets full of water in the house. Every night, you would have to get in the water. They would say, "We got to get up some night water and some night wood." And then you would get the night wood up and bring it, and put it on the porch out there. You'll see, on the porch, that's for fire all night long. And the night water, we would take about four water buckets and bring it in from the well, it would've been a long ways away from the house. I remember the first time that we had a well, it was almost a quarter of a mile away from the house. And we had to carry water so far. And when Mama would get ready to wash, we had to carry that water all the way from that well to the house. And it was a lot of water, took a lot of water. But the last house that we had, the well was on the edge of the yard out there.	8:43
Chris Stewart	So you lived in more than one house?	9:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, we moved from place to place.	9:57
Chris Stewart	On the same farm?	10:00
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no, no, no, was somebody's else's farm.	10:02
Chris Stewart	Okay. How many different farms did you work on in South Carolina?	10:04
George Scarborough Jr.	I worked on one farm, because when we moved on this other farm, I was small and I didn't work. But the one that I growed up on was this plantation I growed up on. And that's when I started working for 40 cents a day.	10:12
Chris Stewart	What was the name of the place?	10:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Player. Player Plantation.	10:32
Chris Stewart	Player?	10:34
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	10:34
Chris Stewart	P-L-A-Y-E-R?	10:34
George Scarborough Jr.	Mm-hmm. Player Plantation.	10:37
Chris Stewart	Was that the name of the owner of the—	10:38
George Scarborough Jr.	His name? Yeah. His name was Pete Player.	10:40
Chris Stewart	Okay.	10:43
George Scarborough Jr.	Pete Player, but they called it Player's Plantation.	10:43
Chris Stewart	And you said—	10:46
George Scarborough Jr.	Pete Player.	10:47
Chris Stewart	—he paid—	10:47
George Scarborough Jr.	40 cents a day. I was getting 40 cents a day from six o'clock in the morning to six in the afternoon. And you would have hour for lunch.	10:48
Chris Stewart	And did you stay, you were in the same house during the entire time that you worked at—During the entire time that your family worked at Player Plantation?	10:58
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no. The house burnt down, the one where we first was in.	11:07
Chris Stewart	Okay.	11:12
George Scarborough Jr.	That house burnt down.	11:13
Chris Stewart	How did that happen?	11:15
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, we had some things in there in a room, it had some corn in a room. And that was the way that people had to survive. They had to pull corn out of the field, and bring it to the house, and shell the corn, and carry it to the mill, and have it grind from cornmeal. And so that's what, and some shuck was there, and Daddy was shucking some corn one night, and about to sleep. Had a lantern, and the lantern fell in the shuck, and the oil and everything. And when he seen, it was so far gone until it couldn't be put out. But when Mama screamed, I jumped up out of the bed, and I was in my right mind, and I started waking the children up and carrying them on outside. And I carried them on outside and saved some of the furniture. But some of it had burn up. And so they built another house after that. And I—	11:16
Chris Stewart	Did your family build the house?	12:27
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no. No. The man that owned the plantation. He built the house, because family couldn't build anything at all, because you didn't have any money to do anything with. I was getting 40 cents a day, and Daddy was getting 50 cents a day. And that we was only two working in the house. And so it wasn't anybody's else, so I had seven—Seven—I had six more children in the house, you see. Six, because my brother was gone, one died. So there was six more children, was six of us. And so that's what we had.	12:28
Chris Stewart	They were all younger than you?	13:11
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh yeah. All of them were younger.	13:12
Chris Stewart	So you were the second oldest?	13:14
George Scarborough Jr.	I was the second-oldest child.	13:16
Chris Stewart	Okay.	13:19
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I was the second-oldest child.	13:19
Chris Stewart	Okay.	13:19
George Scarborough Jr.	I am the second-oldest child, right.	13:21
Chris Stewart	Yes, you still are the second-oldest child.	13:25
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, I still am the second-oldest child, I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah.	13:25
Chris Stewart	So can you tell me a little bit about what the work was like on the plantation?	13:27
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. We plant cotton and sweet potatoes and peanuts. Cotton, sweet potatoes, and peanuts. So you had to plant that cotton, and the peanuts, and the sweet potatoes. And picking cotton, have you ever seen anybody pick cotton by hand? That's a job, I'm telling you that. And the rows are long, and you got to walk down the rows of that cotton and back. I picked as much as 200 pounds, and it was a cent a pound. You was getting paid a cent a pound for picking cotton. So, you pick a hundred pound of cotton, then you had $1. And you pick 200 pound of cotton, then you had $2. But it would take you 10 to 12 hours to pick 200 pound. And you had to be a fast worker to pick 200 pounds of cotton a day. But you had some guys pick more than that. So that's how you got paid, per pound.	13:32
Chris Stewart	Okay.	14:48
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Cent a pound.	14:49
Chris Stewart	So that was the kind of work that you and your dad did.	14:50
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right.	14:52
Chris Stewart	What was the kind of work that your sisters and your mom did? Did they just keep house, or were they doing other kinds of farming?	14:54
George Scarborough Jr.	They would keep house until time come to weed that cotton and peanuts and all. They didn't do any plowing, anything like that. The men did the plowing. But there was a few womens, I seen, plowing too.	14:59
Chris Stewart	Really?	15:17
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I seen some womens plowing. Yeah, but it wasn't many. But I seen—	15:17
Chris Stewart	Had to be pretty strong, I imagine.	15:24
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, you had to be strong to hold a plower and a planter up on a bed planting cotton. You had to be strong, because it was a way that you had to hold that up on that bed, that ridge that they had. But there was a few womens I seen out in the field plowing right along with their husband. Yeah. And so the womens would keep house until time come to, mostly, you had to hoe that cotton. It didn't take long, because when you plant cotton, about three weeks after you plant the cotton, you had to hoe that cotton. With hoes, you seen? Have you? Yeah, you had to hoe that cotton. And you hoe it three times. You hoe that cotton about from three to four times.	15:25
Chris Stewart	During the time that it's growing?	16:14
George Scarborough Jr.	Growing is the time it's growing. And the peanuts had to be hoed too, because there was grass and weed in the peanuts. And the sweet potato had to be hoed too, because of weed. And so when they call it laying by the crop, you lay by a crop. Well, during the time between the laying by time and the harvesting time you're talking about two months, about two months, between the laying by and the harvesting time, is two months.	16:16
George Scarborough Jr.	And you start with sweet potato first. And after you finish with the sweet potatoes, then the cotton is ready to be picked. And after the cotton is ready to be picked, then the peanuts is ready to be. And everybody ask you if you ever shook dirt off of peanuts. That's a job, shaking dirt off of peanuts. You had to shake the dirt off them, and then put them on a rack. Little stacks of peanuts all over the field there. And shaking dirt off of those peanuts, that was a job. And picking those sweet potato, of course, you—	16:59
Chris Stewart	Bending over and—	17:36
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, bending over. Picking up those sweet potato all the way from the ground. And those peanuts was all the way from the ground too, you see? So that was a job.	17:37
Chris Stewart	Do you have any memories about your father's or even your relationship with the owner of the plantation? How did they get along, or what was the relationship like?	17:49
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, the relationship on the plantation, my father and the owner, they had some words sometime, difficult words, about the children going to school. Because you would be ready for school in the morning, and then he would come along in his truck and say, "The children can't go to school today, they're going to have to work in the field." So he would say, "Y'all can't go to school today." He says, "Have to work in the field." And so he would try to say something, but you didn't have any voice at all when you was on a plantation, because they would put you off of the plantation. And then if they put you off of the plantation, when you go to another plantation, then that man there is going to investigate why did you leave? You see? Why you leave from over there? And then that man going to say, "He hard to get along with," says, "I couldn't do anything with him. You might be able to do something with him, but I doubt it." All that.	18:01
Chris Stewart	Did you know people where that happened, did you know families where that happened?	19:15
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. I know people that couldn't move off of one plantation to another plantation, they had to go out of the county. Someplace else, in order to—On another plantation, because the words—	19:20
Chris Stewart	Will travel.	19:38
George Scarborough Jr.	Will travel. And so that's the way that it happened. So my father and the owner, they had some difficult and so forth on, but Mama would talk to Daddy and tell him, say, "You know you got to be quiet," say, "Because we don't want to be put off of this farm. We don't want to be put off of this farm, because we don't have any place to go to." And she kept talking to Daddy, and that kept him calm. But he tries to stand up to, but you can't do it, it wasn't no winning for you. But we just didn't have a chance to go to school. You didn't have a chance to go to school.	19:39
George Scarborough Jr.	And then in the first, when I started in elementary school, it wasn't in a elementary school for the Black, we went to a church, went to the school, had school in the little wooden church, and the storm blew that church down. And we had to wait it until the Blacks that had their own farm, they would go in their woods and peel these logs and they built a two-room log cabin school, just two rooms. And they taught from the first to the fourth grade in one side, and taught to the eighth grade in the other side.	20:31
Chris Stewart	Did you tell me that that building is still standing? Did you say that you thought it was still standing?	21:14
George Scarborough Jr.	That building is not standing.	21:19
Chris Stewart	Okay.	21:21
George Scarborough Jr.	But the first building that they built for the Black, I think [indistinct 00:21:28] are still standing. But when I go down there, my brother, he goes often, but I don't. After Mom and Dad passed, we have a family reunion every two years. And I was down in this past July, they have July 4th, and I was down there this past July 4th. So I won't go back anymore, unless somebody getting real sick or something, until July 4th. Up '94. Yeah, four. But he's always down there, so I'm going to give him my camera, and let him take a picture of that school. There was one still standing. They tore all of them down. But there was one still standing. That was the first school that they built for the Black after the church school. Yeah, that was the first one.	21:22
George Scarborough Jr.	And that's an old school, it's an old building. I looked at it when I was down there just about every time. Because it's close to church that I was brought up in, it's not far from the church I was brought up in, St. Mark Baptist Church in South Carolina. We have the St. Mark Church right up there too.	22:22
Chris Stewart	Oh yeah.	22:38
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. But that was in South Carolina. I was baptized there, and it was 10 Scarboroughs was baptized there that same Sunday. Cousins, all cousins. I was 10, I remember.	22:39
Chris Stewart	Did you go to church often?	22:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Go to church often, but I couldn't go too often because Mama—My brother, that's older than I am and my, we wore same size clothes, because I caught him in the growth, you see. And so Mama bought one suit of clothes and one shirt, one tie, one pair of shoes. And she would carry my brother this Sunday, and I would stay home and play in the yard. And then the next Sunday she would carry me, and he would stay home and play in the yard, because she wasn't able to afford to buy two outfit. So that's the way it was. But we went to church until we got Ava. She got Ava, and she bought two outfits, you see? So she could carry us the same time. So, that's how it happened.	22:55
Chris Stewart	Did it work the same way for your sisters?	23:47
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no. It was different for the sisters. The younger one, they had a bus to ride to go to school. And then they gave the Black the White schools, and built a new one for the White.	23:49
Chris Stewart	The Black girls the White schools?	24:05
George Scarborough Jr.	The Black people.	24:09
Chris Stewart	Okay.	24:09
George Scarborough Jr.	They gave the Black student the White school. And then they built new schools for the White, and gave them a bus. So they rode a bus to school, but we didn't. We had to walk, and we didn't have no good school to go to.	24:10
Chris Stewart	Yeah, you were telling me that on the telephone, that you had to walk, how far [indistinct 00:24:32]?	24:28
George Scarborough Jr.	It was six miles one way.	24:32
Chris Stewart	That's to this two-room schoolhouse?	24:36
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, to the two-room schoolhouse. Six miles one way. And a kid, six or seven, eight years old, that was rough on him, walking. And so after that, we had to walk to the junior high school, it was eight miles one way. That's 16 a day. And the high school was 11 miles. That would be 22. Nobody could walk that distance. So that's the reason why the majority of the people from the South, the older people, didn't have education, because number one, they didn't have a school to go to, then they had to walk so far. So I went as far as eighth grade, and no farther.	24:38
George Scarborough Jr.	And I spent a lot of time making through that eighth grade, because you didn't have a chance to go to school the whole school term. You had to work in the field. You had two years making a grade, three years and all of that, you see. So that's the reason why that the majority of the people from the South, like I said, the Mid-South, that didn't—And the far South, you said. Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, those places. Because just like a lot of these blues players, some of them can't even write their name. But it's a gift from God to learn how to play the guitar. Muddy Waters, Lightnin' Hopkins, Blind Boy Fuller, those guys didn't have education, but it was a gift from God.	25:24
Chris Stewart	Do you think your guitar playing is a gift from God?	26:20
George Scarborough Jr.	It's a gift from God.	26:22
Chris Stewart	Do you feel like you've been given?	26:25
George Scarborough Jr.	I felt like, yeah. I feel like I've been given that gift, because there's nobody in my family plays the guitar but me on Daddy's side. But Mama had a brother on her side, he played the guitar, but he taught me just one or two songs. And then he started preaching, and he stopped playing the blues, and wanted me to stop. But Mama told him, said, "You start him, I'm not going to stop him. If he stop, he'll stop himself." Said, "But I'm not going to stop him." So she didn't. She said, "Whatever you wants to do, you do it." I was in the church all of my life, and I brought up in the church and all, and I serve on the board of trustee now and the committee of finance. And I look after the church property to make sure it be kept up. But the gift God gave me, I started playing for a gospel group.	26:26
Chris Stewart	Oh, you did?	27:29
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I started playing for a gospel group, but—	27:29
Chris Stewart	Is it still in South Carolina now?	27:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, there and here.	27:33
Chris Stewart	Okay.	27:35
George Scarborough Jr.	But you see, I don't want to go to church and playing the gospel in the church, and somebody say, "He played last night to a blues party." See what I'm talking about? "That he played last night to a blues party. I know where he played! He played downtown or someplace." So I stopped playing gospel music. I played round here for myself.	27:35
Chris Stewart	So, how come you chose the blues over gospel? Why didn't you stop playing the blues?	28:03
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, it just like all the singers that's singing now, they started in the church singing. All of them start in the church. Ray Charles, Little Richard, James Brown, Gladys Knight, Whitney Houston, Anita Baker, Dionne Warwick, Stevie Wonder, all of them started. I could just keep right on, right on and on and on. They started in the church. But they moved on up. Because Aretha Franklin was quiet for her—Reverend Franklin was her father in Washington D.C. I been to the church. And [indistinct 00:28:52], she was the director of the choir. But now you can put out a gospel. I remember the time you couldn't do it. But you can put out a gospel song, or a blues, or rock and roll song, now pop, yeah, anything you want to now. But they had outlawed it before.	28:09
Chris Stewart	So, you felt like you had to make a choice?	29:07
George Scarborough Jr.	I had to make a choice, right. I felt like I had to make a choice.	29:08
Chris Stewart	Was it more profitable for you to play the blues than it would've been to play gospel?	29:14
George Scarborough Jr.	After the history of the old blues players, I wanted to be part of the history of the old blues player, because there's this song that I listened to when I was small, Mommy had one of these old little stereo, you had to—You might [indistinct 00:29:42]—	29:22
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:29:42].	29:41
George Scarborough Jr.	—that you had to turn. And the record was 7" and 8" records. All the Muddy Waters, Lightnin' Hopkins, and the old players, the ones that's living now, that used to play, they would be between 85 and 90 years old. Howlin' Wolf, I think he's still living, he should be right at 90.	29:44
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Yeah.	30:11
George Scarborough Jr.	I think he's—	30:11
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	30:11
George Scarborough Jr.	I think he's still living.	30:11
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	30:11
George Scarborough Jr.	But you know, Muddy Waters gone, Lightnin' Hopkins gone, Blind Boy Fuller been gone about 40 years. And John Dixon, he wasn't dying. And Z. Z. Hill wasn't too old when he died. Z. Z. Hill wasn't too—Jimmy Reed wasn't too old when he died. But—	30:15
Chris Stewart	It's a hard life to live.	30:31
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right. But the old blues players, like Muddy Waters and Lightnin' Hopkins and Blind Boy Fuller, all those guys—	30:35
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:30:45] Johnson, and those guys.	30:45
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, all those old guys, yeah. But you see, B. B. King, but he was born on the plantation too. But B. B. King got too old, he about 68, B. B. King?	30:46
Chris Stewart	Yeah, I think he's in his sixties.	30:57
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, late sixties.	30:59
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	31:00
George Scarborough Jr.	He's in his late sixties.	31:00
Chris Stewart	So you wanted to be a part of that tradition [indistinct 00:31:06]?	31:02
George Scarborough Jr.	I want to be a part of it. Yeah, right, right. And what I'm going to do, I missed it this time, because I was busy working. I wants to go to the elementary school, because you'll see the blues are dying out now. The blues are dying out. And the only way you can keep the blues is the majority of the young people now don't like the blues. They like rap and disco music, all, boom, boom, boom. You know, rap and all that stuff. That's what they like now. What about the blues? "Oh," say, "that's something my great-grand—" Oh, they'll tell you, "Great-grand" or something like that. But they don't know, that's their history and their historic, you know?	31:05
Chris Stewart	Right.	31:45
George Scarborough Jr.	That's their history and historic, but you can't tell them anything about it. They'll just ignore you when you—They'll ignore you when you said anything about it, you see. But you see, I wants to be a part of the blues, the history, and we wants to keep the blues, because it's dying out. Because when the older blues players are gone, oh, probably won't be any more blues.	31:45
Chris Stewart	So, it sounds like you feel a real sense of responsibility to—	32:13
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right. I has another guy here in Durham, John Dee Holman, he's a blues player too.	32:16
Chris Stewart	Right, yeah, I've heard of him.	32:24
George Scarborough Jr.	John Dee Holman. So me and John Dee Holman, right around here, he's about my age.	32:25
Chris Stewart	How old are you?	32:32
George Scarborough Jr.	62.	32:32
Chris Stewart	If you don't mind my asking.	32:33
George Scarborough Jr.	62.	32:37
Chris Stewart	I'm sorry!	32:37
George Scarborough Jr.	62. And John Dee's 64.	32:37
Chris Stewart	Okay, there you go.	32:37
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I'm 62, and John Dee is 64.	32:38
Chris Stewart	You're a very young looking 62.	32:43
George Scarborough Jr.	Thank you, thank you. So, me and John Dee Holman about the only two blues player can really play the blues right now in the Durham County. And I don't know of any blues player because Thomas Burton, he used to play the Duke, from Creedmoor, North Carolina. He died, he was 84, 85. He died three or four years ago. Thomas Burton. And we got Big Boy from down east, I don't know if he's still living or not. He played out to Duke out there too. Big Boy—Big Boy, I just remember his name. But me and John Dee Holman are the only two blues player that I know around in Durham County. Now, there's a couple of blues players in Hillsborough. George McCandies.	32:45
Chris Stewart	How do you spell George—How do you spell his last name?	33:47
George Scarborough Jr.	M-C-C-A-N-D-I-E-S. And—	33:49
Chris Stewart	C-C? I'm sorry.	33:55
George Scarborough Jr.	M-C-C—M-C-C—Let me see now, I spell it the first time. Nah, I don't.	33:56
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:34:03].	34:01
George Scarborough Jr.	McCandies. M-C-C-A-N—N—Wait a minute, I'll get it again. M-C-C-A-N-D-I-E-S. Mm-hmm, right. And Virgie McCandies.	34:05
Chris Stewart	Is that his wife?	34:15
George Scarborough Jr.	Brother, they're—	34:15
Chris Stewart	Oh, brothers.	34:15
George Scarborough Jr.	—two brothers. Yeah. Virgie McCandies and George McCandies. And they're his brother, North Carolina. And—	34:17
Chris Stewart	So did you start, you were playing the blues by the time you moved to Durham, right?	34:33
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh, I started playing the blues when I was 10 years old.	34:37
Chris Stewart	So you must have, when you moved to Durham, there was a lot of blues going on in [indistinct 00:34:45].	34:40
George Scarborough Jr.	There was a lot of blues going on in Durham, a whole lot.	34:44
Chris Stewart	Did you get into that scene, or—	34:47
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I met a lot of the guy, the blues players and all, you take [indistinct 00:34:53]. Washboard Sam was here in Durham, playing the washboard. You remember, have you ever heard anybody really play? I'm talking about really play a washboard. Not like how these rappers have something dragging on. I can play a washboard too. These rappers just have something just dragging on the washboard. But I can play a washboard. You put the thermals—	34:49
Chris Stewart	On your fingers.	35:15
George Scarborough Jr.	—on your fingers, and I'll play it too. Put it between your leg, and I can play the washboard too. I'm a washboard player. So, he left here 35 years ago, because he tried to get me to go with him with the guitar. "Let's make some money." I said no, I had a family, you see. He was a drifter. Nobody but himself, you see?	35:15
Chris Stewart	How did your wife feel about your blues playing?	35:31
George Scarborough Jr.	She didn't like it too good. But she didn't never say anything. But the children, they loved it. They would just sit down and listen and pat their hand. When I get through playing, they would rap for me and all. They were small, this and that here, and one there. And my son over there. Because my daughter [indistinct 00:35:55] Indiana, they will start, some on the job, they will start discussion about blues. And she said, "Well, I'll get on the phone and call my daddy." Say, "Because my daddy were playing the blues ever since I can remember, and so he knows the blues, if anything about the blues, so my daddy knows, and so I'll call him and ask him about the blues. So you don't tell me, because there was different songs out."	35:36
George Scarborough Jr.	I got all the old rock and roll songs, the popular one, Gladys Knight & the Pips, I Heard it Through the Grapevine, and Ray Charles, and Midnight Train to Georgia, and Come Back Baby, Let's Talk It Over One More Time. And James Brown, Please, Please, and Try Me. And May Be The Last Time, I Don't Know. And Little Richard, I got in the old songs by him, and I got Candi Staton before she went back to gospel, you know Candi Staton? She's going back to gospel now. There's a lot of them going back to gospel. And I got her songs, and I got just about old song. I got Etta James and Tell Mama, that's an old song.	36:18
Chris Stewart	That's a good one.	37:11
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, that's a good one. I got all that around there. I got all the old music, the blues and everything on tape around there. I got a stack of old music on tape around there. It'll take you about 12—I got about 24 hours of nothing but music to listen to steady.	37:12
Chris Stewart	Wow.	37:30
George Scarborough Jr.	The blues, and rock and roll, and all. And I got Nat King Cole, Looking Back. That was one of his popular song. You remember when Nat did Looking Back?	37:30
Chris Stewart	I'm not old enough.	37:43
George Scarborough Jr.	I know, I know you, I remember.	37:43
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	37:43
George Scarborough Jr.	No, I'm not telling you about that, "Do you remember him?" Did you heard that song?	37:44
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	37:47
George Scarborough Jr.	Looking back over my life, if I had another chance, I would never make that same mistake again. That's the great Nat King Cole. I got all—I got Louie Jordan & His Tympany Five. Louie Jordan started in '30—I think he start in 1935.	37:48
Chris Stewart	That's what I was thinking.	38:04
George Scarborough Jr.	'35, [indistinct 00:38:09]. I got him, or the Saturday Night Fish Fry. And I got—Yeah, the Saturday Night Fish Fry. And I got some of the popular songs by him too, by Louie Jordan & the Tympany Five. But that Saturday Night Fish Fry, that was a big hit for him. Yeah, that was a big hit for him.	38:06
Chris Stewart	So when you moved here to Durham, did you move into this house?	38:37
George Scarborough Jr.	No.	38:40
Chris Stewart	Okay, where did you—	38:41
George Scarborough Jr.	I moved on Enterprise Street.	38:42
Chris Stewart	Oh, right up the street here?	38:45
George Scarborough Jr.	Enterprise is over here, yeah.	38:46
Chris Stewart	Down this way.	38:47
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, you go up here to Roxboro Street and turn right. And you go down to Whitted School. It's Whitted School down there, but it's an Operation Breakthrough got that building now there.	38:48
Chris Stewart	Oh, right.	38:58
George Scarborough Jr.	Head Start or something up there now, up there.	38:59
Chris Stewart	Yeah, I remember.	39:01
George Scarborough Jr.	But Enterprise Street, [indistinct 00:39:04] the Enterprise—	39:02
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Well-	39:05
George Scarborough Jr.	—cross.	39:05
Chris Stewart	—actually, we were coming from that direction. So we passed it coming this way.	39:06
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh, y'all was on Roxboro Street?	39:09
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	39:10
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay, well, y'all passed it then.	39:10
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	39:12
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, y'all passed it.	39:12
Chris Stewart	So, how long did you live in that house?	39:13
George Scarborough Jr.	I lived in—	39:15
Chris Stewart	You lived there with your wife?	39:16
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no, no, no. When I stayed there, I was with my brother and his wife.	39:17
Chris Stewart	Okay.	39:20
George Scarborough Jr.	And after I got my family up here, we moved on Fowler Avenue on the Hayti back there. And it's not [indistinct 00:39:28] on Fowler Avenue, all those streets-	39:21
Chris Stewart	What's the name of the avenue?	39:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Fowler.	39:33
Chris Stewart	Filer?	39:33
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Yeah. Avenue.	39:34
Chris Stewart	Oh.	39:36
George Scarborough Jr.	We moved there.	39:36
Chris Stewart	Can you spell that for me?	39:38
George Scarborough Jr.	Is it F-O-W-L-E-R?	39:40
Chris Stewart	Fowler.	39:40
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. F-O-W-L-E-R. Yeah.	39:42
Chris Stewart	And it's not there anymore?	39:46
George Scarborough Jr.	No. It's all those streets down there, Mobile and Fowler Avenue and Picket Street.	39:48
Chris Stewart	So did you have a house there?	39:55
George Scarborough Jr.	No.	39:58
Chris Stewart	You had an apartment?	40:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Renting, renting an apartment. And we stayed there, and we moved from there. Right on Dupree Street over here to where I raised—No, no. I was in two houses on Enterprise Street.	40:01
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	40:17
George Scarborough Jr.	When I moved my children here, I moved off of Enterprise Street, moved on Fowler Avenue. That's my wife and my youngest child, this one right here. Then the other children stayed in South Carolina. When I moved in then, then I got a house back on Enterprise Street. And then when we left Enterprise Street, then we moved over here on Dupree Street. Dupree Street is right up here. You pass Moline and next is Dupree Street down [indistinct 00:40:48] the college. And so my children went to the schools right in here and all, and then in Dupree Street.	40:18
Chris Stewart	So you've lived in this neighborhood, in this general neighborhood all for 39 years.	40:54
George Scarborough Jr.	39 years. 39 years.	40:58
Chris Stewart	Can you tell me how the neighborhood has changed during the time that you've been here this 39 years?	41:01
George Scarborough Jr.	The neighborhood hadn't changed, because homeowners over in this section here, you see, but the Hayti section back there, like Fayetteville Street Project over there. Well, there wasn't no Fayetteville Street Project. All those was, it was the ghetto. All that was the ghetto down there. Fayetteville Street Project was the ghetto. And all down there with Heritage Square, with Winn-Dixie? And all down in there, on Elizabeth Street, there was the ghetto. All it was Black. See, the Hayti area was the ghetto for the Black. And Edgemont over on Main Street was the ghetto for the poor White.	41:09
Chris Stewart	White.	42:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. So you had the ghetto for poor people for the Black over here in the Hayti area.	42:03
Chris Stewart	Haytown?	42:08
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, Hayti. Hayti.	42:08
Chris Stewart	Hayti, okay.	42:12
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, right.	42:12
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:42:13].	42:12
George Scarborough Jr.	And then to ghetto for the poor Whites was over here in Edgemont.	42:13
Chris Stewart	Okay.	42:16
George Scarborough Jr.	That's for all White, because it was all White over there, and all Black over here. The Black couldn't go over there and the White couldn't come over here, if they did, it would be a fight. Yeah, had a street, the Main Street was a line. You had a White—	42:19
Chris Stewart	You think it's pretty funny, huh?	42:49
George Scarborough Jr.	The White couldn't cross the railroad. There's a railroad there, two on the Main Street, and the White couldn't cross the railroad to come over to Hayti. The Black couldn't go over there, did would be a fight. So sometimes, there'd be a fight on the railroad, somebody trying to cross the track.	42:50
Chris Stewart	Gosh. Would this be between young people?	43:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah!	43:02
Chris Stewart	Young people.	43:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, young people. Wasn't the old people.	43:02
Chris Stewart	Right.	43:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Young people. Teenagers and like that, you know?	43:10
Chris Stewart	And was it not only that the White people over on the other side didn't want the Black people coming into their side, but also that the Black people didn't want the White people?	43:16
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right, right. That's right.	43:26
Chris Stewart	Guard your borders.	43:28
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, that's right. Guard the border, because if a White guy come over there, sometimes, some of the older ones would get bout drunk and come over there, "I'm looking for me Coloreds." They used the word Colored then. "I'm looking for me a nice looking Colored girl or woman or lady." "Oh yeah?" "Yeah." "Well, come on back here, I'll show you where you can find one." He came back and they'd whoop him, you see? (laughs) Came back there and whoop him, bring him back hot, and send him across the track. If a Black guy go over there. "I'm looking for me a—" He about drunk. "I'm looking for a White woman." "Oh yeah?" "Yeah." Well, they'll whoop him and send him back across the track. So, that's what they had down there. Because I know all about it. I'm going to tell y'all. I laugh about it now, it's not all that funny. But looking back at the years passed by that compared to time now, then I just can't help from laughing.	43:30
Chris Stewart	Were kids scared about it at the time? Was it scary for young people at the time? Now you say you're laughing about it, but—	44:29
George Scarborough Jr.	It wasn't so scary. It wasn't—Sorry. Because they'd know they wasn't supposed to go over there with the White, and the White wasn't supposed to come over here with the Black. And it wasn't scary, it was just something that was passed. It's like a law. And you weren't supposed to break the law. Or you go over there, he starts, you go to jail. He come over here and starts, then he'll go to jail. So, that's what we had. The railroad track was the dividing line. And you say, "Don't you go across that track over there, boy." And I said, "Hey, no, I ain't going over there." And somebody get half drunk or something, and go over there, you see, [indistinct 00:45:30] whoop him and send him back over there. There wasn't a whole lot of killing, anything like that, but there's a lot of fighting, you know?	44:36
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	45:36
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Just what happened years ago, it wasn't all White, wasn't all Black, it was both. Both of them. Yeah, both.	45:37
Chris Stewart	You said that you used to hang out down in Hayti.	45:50
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right.	45:52
Chris Stewart	Can you tell me where you used to hang out? Were there places where—	45:52
George Scarborough Jr.	There was a Biltmore Hotel down there, Biltmore Hotel. There was a hotel down there, they sold food, and rent rooms, and had music and all, piccolo and all like that in there. And they had a place down in John Wilson's Spoke Shop, and they had a place down there, Kelly's Place.	45:58
Chris Stewart	Kelly's Place?	46:29
George Scarborough Jr.	Kelly's Place. And they had a theater down there, the Regal Theater was down there. So it was a place down there for the Black to go. And they said, "Have a good time." That's the old people used to use the word, "Man, let's go and have a good time." And they would drink, and have a good time dancing and going on. And there was a lot of houses down there sold whiskey, they call them liquor houses. And there was houses had piccolo in them.	46:31

George Scarborough Jr.	But we call them Piccolo house, and a liquor house. Well, all liquor houses had a Piccolo in it, you see? And they sold liquor, beer, wine, food and rent rooms. It either was upstairs or big enough house to rent rooms on the side over there, because I know that the time that I rent a room, it was a dollar. It was a dollar for a room all night long. And a dinner was 25 cents. A dinner was 25 cents. And you could rent a room for $1 for all night long. Yeah, $1 for all night long.	0:01
Chris Stewart	Did the Piccolo houses have names or were they just like private homes where people lived, and then [indistinct 00:00:57]?	0:51
George Scarborough Jr.	Some of them had them in their private home and some of them rented a house someplace. Like I had one down here, but my family was over here on Enterprise Street and I went and had [indistinct 00:01:09] down there. They had a house down there.	0:57
George Scarborough Jr.	What the poor people was trying to do is make some money to survive, but you was violating a law. But still, wasn't no drugs so being sold or nothing like that. There was whiskey, beer, and wine, but they wasn't supposed to sell it because it's on tax paid whiskey.	1:11
George Scarborough Jr.	You would go to whiskey store and buy, then you would sell it in your house, buy the drinks. You were violating the law. But this white whiskey they was selling, moonshine, that was coming from a whiskey still someplace, you see? But all of it was the same thing. If you get caught, it was the same thing because you wasn't supposed to sell that whiskey out the whiskey store. They didn't want you to sell it. And beer, you not supposed to sell beer either because it's on tax paid, you see? And so, they're still doing it, but it's not many of them now like it used to be.	1:32
Chris Stewart	Did you ever get caught? Do you know of anybody [indistinct 00:02:14]?	2:12
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no. I know a lot of them got caught. You had to pay a fine.	2:15
Chris Stewart	Okay.	2:18
George Scarborough Jr.	You'd pay a fine, they would raid your house and they found too much whiskey, too much beer, anything. I just remember now how much. You could have a quart of whiskey, liquor from the liquor store.	2:18
Chris Stewart	In your house?	2:39
George Scarborough Jr.	In your house.	2:40
Chris Stewart	And if you had more?	2:41
George Scarborough Jr.	And then more, you violated law. And then, the beer, I think it was two cases of beer was the limit. You could have two cases of beer. Over that, you violate the law.	2:42
Chris Stewart	Were there people who looked out for other people so that you wouldn't get caught?	2:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, it was people look out for you, but you had a lot of jealousness.	3:00
Chris Stewart	Oh, really?	3:05
George Scarborough Jr.	Because if your house would make more money than my house and you was up here on the corner, then they would tell by on you, you see? Raid your house, and then the business will go up there to the other. So there was a lot of jealousness. It's still at now. Still now.	3:08
Chris Stewart	Were these the kind of places that you could take your wife?	3:27
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right. You could take your wife, your girlfriend, sit down and they'd say, "Have a good time." They use that word, "Let's go and have a good time tonight." Well, there wasn't no fighting and killing and cutting and going on. Somebody might smack the girlfriend because she was talking to somebody too long or dancing, hugged up real tight or something like that, you know? Somebody done got high over there and he would go over there and talk to somebody that he used to date long time ago and be over there talking. She would go and grab him and smack him or something.	3:30
George Scarborough Jr.	But it wasn't—Called it a scuffle, you know? But there's fighting and going on like that and killing, it wasn't anything like that. Every once in a while, you would hear that somebody kill or something like that, and this robbing and all. It wasn't like in the country, you could leave your door open and you didn't have to worry about nobody going in, taking anything. Well, in the city long time ago, it was the same thing. And so, it was just—We just called ourself having a good time. You didn't have any money much. You didn't have much money, and then you couldn't have a lot of real fancy clothes and all, but we were having a good time. That's what we called.	4:05
Chris Stewart	What kind of work were you doing when you were—What other kinds of work?	4:53
George Scarborough Jr.	I worked a furniture store here in Durham. I started working construction work. That was my first job, was working construction work. That was the first job in Durham.	4:55
Chris Stewart	Where was that?	5:06
George Scarborough Jr.	Central. Down there was building some more onto the college down there.	5:07
Chris Stewart	Oh, you were?	5:12
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. And so, I worked down there at Central, construction. And I worked down there, and then I went to Duke University and work out there on the construction. It was adding some more on to Duke University then, so I work out there on construction work. And then I work—	5:13
Chris Stewart	What kind of construction work were you doing? Were you bricklaying?	5:31
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no. I rolled on a wheelbarrow.	5:34
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	5:34
George Scarborough Jr.	I was just a laborer, rolling a wheelbarrow. That's what I was doing.	5:36
Chris Stewart	Heavy work.	5:40
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, heavy work. Rolling a wheelbarrow and digging footings for the poles for concrete. You're picking a shovel. That's what you had.	5:42
Chris Stewart	Heavy work.	5:53
George Scarborough Jr.	Heavy work, heavy work. Because I couldn't do anything. But I worked with a brick mason in South Carolina for a while and he been going, so he showed me—I was helping him and he showed me how to lay brick. He said, "When you get the board fill up with mortar—" Said, "Get a trowel. I got an old trowel." Said, "And I'll show you." I said, "Oh, no, no." I said, "I'll never. I lay no brick." I said, "Sir—" He said, "Try it, son." Said, "Go and try." He said, "Go and try it." So I tried and tried and kept right on. And these bricks on this house, I didn't want to lay this bricks on my house here, right in front.	5:55
Chris Stewart	You did?	6:36
George Scarborough Jr.	I bricked my house. Yeah, the bricks on it, I laid the bricks. And the walkway out there, I poured that cement, the walkway.	6:37
Chris Stewart	You poured that?	6:44
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I poured that too because I worked with a cement finisher. Well, I worked with a carpenter and he showed me how to do this and that, how to read a ruler. That's something too. If you don't have no education and didn't learn in school, reading the ruler, that's something else too.	6:44
Chris Stewart	Especially for builders.	7:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	7:05
Chris Stewart	He works in construction.	7:05
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right. And so, I built that, a sixth room onto my house on the back, myself. And I hired just the labor. But I did it. I drew the plans and everything.	7:07
Chris Stewart	Oh, wow.	7:19
George Scarborough Jr.	I drew the plans and everything and I built a sixth room on the back of this house here. So this is a 15 room house. Don't look like, but it's 15 rooms here. See, right underneath us, all down there was an open basement. When I bought this house, it was open basement down there. So at Duke University a long time ago, out there on Erwin Road out there, there was tearing down some old mill houses out there. And I haul, that's why I'm still keeping that red little old truck out there.	7:19
Chris Stewart	I see it.	7:48
George Scarborough Jr.	That truck has been an inspiration for me. That's it is, they say, "Scarborough got that old raggedy truck sitting in the front yard." I had it right in the back, I brought it up here. And everybody wants to buy it, I won't sell it. They wants to buy it but I won't sell it. That truck, I had it about 15, 16, 17—About 17 years.	7:48
Chris Stewart	Oh, wow.	8:11
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, around 17 years. And I hauled all those boughs and 2 by 4s and 2 by 6s from out there and haul them here. And I went down and I built three bedrooms underneath down there. See, I rent rooms to a student and working people, you see?	8:12
Chris Stewart	Oh, yeah.	8:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. And I built all that down there, and rent those rooms out. And I'm saving my money, and then I built six rooms on the back, which is another house back there. And so, I rent rooms out to working people and everybody just look at me and, "How did you do it?" Them students be standing up out there looking and going, "Mr. Scarborough, how far do you go to school?" I say, "Eighth."	8:31
George Scarborough Jr.	"No, you went far in that, so you had to go to—" Say, "I'm watching you." They watching me. Standing up out there, the hand in the pocket and all of them watching me, how I'm doing and billing and fitting things and going on and putting my rule on all. Well, they was excited that I didn't go farther than eighth grade in school. How can you do what you are doing? And I had to explain to them about it, about our work as a laborer for these, or the ones that been in school, you see, and took their trade, and they showed me how to do it, you see? It took me a long time, but I learned it.	8:53
Chris Stewart	So that's what you did when you first got here for a while. Did you have other jobs that you did as well?	9:33
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, yeah. I worked at furniture store.	9:40
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	9:40
George Scarborough Jr.	I worked at furniture store delivering furniture.	9:43
Chris Stewart	Okay.	9:44
George Scarborough Jr.	Help on the truck and the driver would quit his job or get fired, then I would take over the driving job. And I worked in the furniture truck for a long time, so that's what I was doing. Worked at a toy store for a long time, Addison Marketeer, and then it was Addison Playworld. And I worked downtown there, delivering toys and putting toys together and putting up gyms, swing sets and sliding boats for kids and so forth on and all that, so that's what I was doing. I think I was getting 60 cents an hour when I started working, 60 cents an hour. 60 cents an hour, I believe it was 60 cents an hour. Yeah, because when I started working at Duke out there, yeah, it was 60 cents an hour when I started working for—That's what I was getting.	9:45
Chris Stewart	How did you get your job at Duke?	10:41
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, the word was out that they were hiring at Duke, you know, construction, so I went out there to apply for a job and the man hired me out there. And riding the bus was 10 cent and I didn't have 10 cents to ride the bus with, I had to walk from here to Duke University in the morning. I was there at seven o'clock, ready to go to work. But I would catch somebody coming toward this way, coming back toward this way.	10:44
Chris Stewart	Oh, yeah.	11:18
George Scarborough Jr.	And that's the way I would get back, but I didn't have 10 cents to ride the bus.	11:19
Chris Stewart	So you stayed then at Duke for 20 years?	11:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, but you see, that wasn't construction work then. When I worked at Duke for 20 years, I worked in housekeeping.	11:33
Chris Stewart	Oh. You did?	11:43
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	11:44
Chris Stewart	So when did you get that job? Did you just go from construction to housekeeping?	11:44
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no, no, no, no, no. I left construction and went to furniture stores and all, you see? Cut that off.	11:49
Chris Stewart	Okay.	11:56
Chris Stewart	[INTERRUPTION 00:11:56]	11:56
George Scarborough Jr.	All right, I was working to Alexander Ford Company.	11:57
Chris Stewart	Alexander Ford?	12:01
George Scarborough Jr.	Alexander Ford Company was downtown on Main Street. It's over here now, as Universal Motor over here now by—	12:02
Chris Stewart	What work were you doing there?	12:11
George Scarborough Jr.	I was cleaning up cars.	12:12
Chris Stewart	Okay.	12:13
George Scarborough Jr.	Working in the body shop and when they finish a car, hit the dust and all was in that car, and I had to clean that car and vacuum it out and wash that car and cleaning up that car. And then, see, I was an alcoholic. When me and my first wife separated, it hurt me so bad, the children mother, until I went and grabbed a bottle to solve a problem. And you know a bottle do not solve a problem, it make it worse. And so, I wound up being an alcoholic.	12:14
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, I wound up being an alcoholic, that was 22 years ago. I had to go to the Watts Hospital for help. Y'all probably heard of Watts Hospital, but it's not operating now. No, it's not operating. So I went to the Watts Hospital for help and I stayed there two weeks. I didn't weigh but about 80 or 90 pounds, and I weighed 160 pounds. I just about done drink myself to death and all, and worrying about me and my wife separated and all like that. And so, she told me down through the years, she said, "I'm going to leave you when the children get grown." Said, "But I'm going to wait until they get grown." Said, "Because I need you to help me with them." She told me that down through the years, and she did.	12:54
Chris Stewart	Why did she—Why?	13:43
George Scarborough Jr.	I was a sport. I was a big sport.	13:45
Chris Stewart	A big sport?	13:48
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I was.	13:50
Chris Stewart	Oh, I see.	13:50
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. I was in the street.	13:51
Chris Stewart	And she didn't like it?	13:53
George Scarborough Jr.	In the street, I was in the street. You see, I wasn't right. But I had a good wife, but the majority of the young mens will go out and run around, so that's what I was doing, running around. So she graduated from Hillside School this week and I went to work the next week over on Dupree Street. I got back that afternoon at five o'clock, she was gone.	13:54
Chris Stewart	Your wife?	14:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, and my baby daughter because the oldest son was in the army. She were married. The next one, she was married. Wasn't nobody but just me and her and the baby daughter.	14:31
Chris Stewart	Right.	14:42
George Scarborough Jr.	And so, she were gone. She had done had a plan, and done had a place to move and all, you see?	14:42
Chris Stewart	Where did she go?	14:47
George Scarborough Jr.	About two blocks from the house. It took me two weeks to find where she was at. I was just investigating to see, where did she move? And walk around here, crying at night in the street and drinking with my bottle in my hand and asking if anybody seen my wife. And said, "No, I ain't seen her." And so, one guy find out.	14:48
George Scarborough Jr.	He said, "Scarborough. I know where your wife at." I said, "Where about?" He said, "You buying me a bottle of wine?" I said, "Yeah, I will." So I bought him a bottle of wine and he came to me and showed. It wasn't about two blocks away from over there where we were staying. And sure enough, I went over there, crying, asked her to take me back. And she told me—I'll be about drunk—and she—bottle hanging out my pocket.	15:12
George Scarborough Jr.	And she said, "No," said, "You had your chance." Says, "I told you what was going to happen," and said, "You wouldn't listen to me, so now I moved out from you." Say, "Go and find you somebody else." I said, "Well, I don't want nobody else, I want you." She said, "Well, you going because I would never go back to you." She said this, I remember she said, "I wouldn't have you back if you the last man in the world." Yeah, I'll never forget what she said. Said, "I will never have you back if you were the last man in the world." Said, "What you carried me through." And that's what she says, 22 years ago. And when I went to the hospital and got out of the hospital, my brother carried me in the hospital in his arms, I had the shakes all like this right here. I was alcoholic and I just had to have that drink and all in the morning. And I would drink until I go to bed at night.	15:38
George Scarborough Jr.	But I got so bad until the whiskey wouldn't stop the shake. I needed medication. So he came to the hospital, I said, "Well, just let me have enough money." He said, "No, said you don't need no whiskey." He said, "You need to go to the hospital." So he carried me in the hospital, I'm glad he did. Because when he came in the hospital that afternoon at six o'clock, I went out that afternoon. And I didn't know anything till nine o'clock the next morning. And they told me they had two doctors and two nurses with me all night long, Madison. They had to feed me through my veins because I haven't ate nothing in six days, six or seven days, because every time I would eat something, my stomach was so—It was so bad, it would right back up.	16:39
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. And so, they had to feed the food to me. I was dying of malnutrition plus alcohol. The whiskey was killing me too. So I woke up the next morning, it was about nine o'clock. My brother was sitting over there, two doctors was standing over there, done change shifts and all. And two doctors and two nurses was standing there, nurse was standing there.	17:24
George Scarborough Jr.	And I woke up and look around. The doctor said, "How you doing?" I said, "I'm all right." He says, "Where you at?" I said, "I'm in the hospital." He said, "Who brought you here?" First he said, "Who that sitting over there?" I said, "That's my brother." He said, "Who brought you here?" I said, "My brother did." He said, "What time is it?" I says, "Quarter past nine."	17:48
George Scarborough Jr.	They look from one to the other because as sick as I was, they thought I was going to be out of my mind, you know? As sick as I was, but I woke up in my right mind. And so, they look from one to the other, you see? He said, "You was a sick man when your brother brought you here yesterday." Said, "We had a time last night trying to save your life. Yeah, we had a time trying to save your life. But I think you're going to be all right now. We hope you will."	18:21
George Scarborough Jr.	I didn't know when you get so sick like that, they give you one shot and they got to wait to see. It'll either bring you back or carry you on. One or the other. So when my brother said he gave me that shot and he said, "Doc, so how bad is it?" He said, "It's bad." Said, "You think he'll pull out of it?" "I don't know. We just have to wait and see." That's what he said that night when he gave me that shot.	18:52
George Scarborough Jr.	I was out. I didn't know I was in the world. I didn't know anything else, but I woke up in my right mind that morning and I know what time it was. And my brother's sitting over, who brought me. But the only thing was what was today, I said, "What was yesterday?" He said, "Monday." I said, "Today Tuesday, that's because my brother brought me here on Monday." But I thought probably been asleep two, three days or something. I said, "Well, today Tuesday because my brother brought me here on a Monday." So he said, "You're right." So I stayed in there two weeks and they said to me, I was drinking from three to four fifth of whiskey a day and from two to three quarts of beer a day. That's what I was drinking every day. And I got so that I couldn't afford the whiskey, then I started drinking wine. I would drink from about two quarts of wine a day and two or three quarts of beer.	19:17
Chris Stewart	How long was this going on after your wife left you? How long did you do this after your had—	20:31
George Scarborough Jr.	It went on about five or six months. About five or six months after my wife left, I just kept on going down, down, down, down.	20:36
Chris Stewart	So you were at the hospital for two weeks?	20:48
George Scarborough Jr.	I was at the hospital for two weeks. And when I got ready to come home, the doctor says, "Mr. Scarborough—" Says, "You can go home today." That was at one o'clock. Said, "We going to relieve you at one o'clock to go home." I had to wait until my brother got off and work to bring some clothes because I didn't have no clothes to wear at home. I didn't have nothing. I didn't have changing clothes. I had one pair of pants, one shirt, one pair of underwear, pair of shoes, no bottom in it, just about holes in them like this. So I didn't have anything to wear home.	20:50
George Scarborough Jr.	So I had on the hospital gown in the hospital. So my brother brought me some clothes after he got off from Liggett & Myers, and brought me home. So the doctor sit down, he said, "Mr. Scarborough—" Said, "You is all right now." Said, "But if you get back in the shape that you was in, I don't know if we can do anything for you." I said, "Doc—" I said, "I'm not saying that I'm not coming back to the hospital, I hope I don't." I said, "But it won't be for drinking." I said, "I made up my mind while I was in the hospital not to drink anymore." And I was smoking from one and a half to two pack of cigarettes a day too. I said, "I made up my mind not to drink anymore and no smoking."	21:34
Chris Stewart	I saw on your door, you have a no smoking [indistinct 00:22:24].	22:22
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, I don't smoke now and I can't stand the smoke.	22:24
Chris Stewart	Yeah, I know what you mean. I used to smoke. I don't smoke anymore and I can't stand the smoke.	22:30
George Scarborough Jr.	I can't stand the smoke. And so, 22 years I haven't drinked a drop of whiskey or smoked a cigarette. Because you know, the songwriter, who was Jerry Butler, said only the strong survived, so I survived.	22:32
Chris Stewart	Mm-hmm. So you were started telling me the story to tell me how you got the housekeeping job at Duke.	22:49
George Scarborough Jr.	You're right. I was working at Alexander Ford Company, and it's a guy brought his car to be fixed. And he had on the same uniform that I got around there, the Duke University housekeeping uniform with a patch on it.	22:56
Chris Stewart	Is that job the Ford company job, the job you got right after you got out of the hospital?	23:09
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no. Let me finish telling you.	23:15
Chris Stewart	Oh, I'm sorry.	23:16
George Scarborough Jr.	So I says, "You work at Duke University housekeeping?" And he said, "Yes, I work out there." I say, "So how jobs out there?" He said, "They need somebody. They hiring." Said, "But they want some good men." And so, he says, "I know you was a good man." Because he talked with me before about me drinking and all, and he know that I didn't drink and smoke. He said, "We need you, see, because we got a lot of drinking people I can't depend on." I said, "Well, you talk to the boss man for me." And I said, "I'm already working from 11 to seven."	23:16
George Scarborough Jr.	And I said, "Talk to him." And sure enough, he said, "Well, I'll let you know something tomorrow." So when he came back by, he told me, he said, "All right." Said, "The man said—" That was on a Tuesday. He says, "Want you out there on Thursday night, 10:30 we'll start." They punch in at 10:30, [indistinct 00:24:07] 11 o'clock, so for an interview. So I went out there that Thursday night for an interview. So the man told me to start working on Monday, that following Monday. I started working and I've been there 20 years ever since. But now, I kept my job at the Alexander Ford Company.	23:47
Chris Stewart	Oh, yeah.	24:25
George Scarborough Jr.	So I was working two full-time jobs. I worked two full-time jobs for five long years. And don't tell nobody it wasn't hard because you asked me and I'll tell you. But the only reason that I did survive working them two jobs for five years, the supervisor, I explained to her, told her what happened. And I told her that I was all the way down, I'm trying to get up. And I says, "Well, I'm asking you to help me out. I'm asking for help." She says, "All right, I'll tell you what to do. So when you come to work at night—" Said, "Do your work first, and then after you finish your work, then you can take a nap. But let the maid know where you at, so if my boss come along, she can wake you up and have you back on the floor."	24:25
George Scarborough Jr.	So she run along with me and helped me out. Wasn't for that sleep at night, nowhere in the world I could have worked the job. During the daytime on that daytime job, around 10 or 11 o'clock, I had to go to the bathroom, wash my face in cold water and just standing there like this. The sleep would come down on it. And I work in the—I had a guy to wake me up and nobody didn't know I was working two jobs. They thought because I was a single man, I was staying in the street all night. Say, "That man there just about to run himself to death." Says, "Man—" Said, "You better stay out the street and get you some sleep." I said, "Well, I'm still a young man." I said, "I'm going to have me some fun." And after I finished having my fun, then I'll—	25:18
Chris Stewart	So you let them believe that?	26:05
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right. Because they would've fired me if they know I was working two jobs.	26:06
Chris Stewart	Right.	26:11
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	26:11
Chris Stewart	People at Ford would've—	26:11
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, they'd have fired me in the one at Brame Special. I work at Brame Special too. And what happened at Brame Special—	26:12
Chris Stewart	Brame Special?	26:18
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, Brame. They sell school supplies and all that stuff to all the schools. Brame. Brame Special Company on Washington Street. And sure enough, the boss man find out. One guy find out that I was—I had one guy there to wake me up. And he would wake me up, "Scarborough, Scarborough." He said, "By the time you get up and wash your face now, it'll be time to punch the clock." I said, "Okay." I said, "Thank you." He said, "All right." And I would go to the bathroom and wash my face and all and be ready to punch the clock, you see? And they were saying too, "That man that stays in the street all the time and all." I said, "Yeah, I probably. Later on, sometime in the near future, I'm going to stop running and then I'll settle down, you know?"	26:20
George Scarborough Jr.	All that, you know? That's the way I would play it, you see? And one more guy find it out. He was Black, he found it out. He been at Brame for I don't know how long, and he told the boss man. Because you see, I bought a brand new '73 Monte Carlo. Back in '73, [indistinct 00:27:43], got jealous. And after that, I bought a white Ford pickup truck because I used to haul veggie from South Carolina and bring them up here and sell them, you see? Making some money. They got jealous of that. Said, "What that man doing with that new car? And now, he got a truck and working here." So the man called and said, "He either a bootlegger or he's stealing." So now, you either a bootlegger or drug dealer now.	27:09
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	28:23
George Scarborough Jr.	But then you either stealing or was a bootlegger. No, say, "He don't bother nothing." They investigating me and all. He don't bother nothing around here or anything at all. I had that Monte Carlo and all, that new car, and they got jealous of me. So one Black guy finded out and he went in the office, "I'll find out why Scarborough got that car and that truck and he's doing—Keep a pocket full of money, and I'll find it out." Man said, "How?" Said, "He work at the Duke University at night." So sure enough, the man called me in office the next morning. "Send Scarborough in the office." That was [indistinct 00:29:09]. "Scarborough—" I said, "How you doing? All right?" Said, "I heard that you got another job." I said, "Yeah."	28:24
George Scarborough Jr.	He said, "You know our policy?" I said "Yes." I said, "But before you say anything—" I said, "I want to put in my resignation two weeks." I said, "I'll be quitting this job in two weeks." I said, "I worked for five years and I'm where I wanted to be at." And I said, "So I will be quitting the job." And I said, "Duke University is going to be my job number one." I said, "Because it was number one before." I said, "So I'll be quitting in two weeks time." He said, "Oh, oh, oh, yeah, okay."Said, "But you know our policy." I said, "I know your policy." I said, "That's why I'm giving my resignation." So I quit Brame Special, I had money saved up and I pay down on this house. This house wasn't but sold for $25,000 then.	29:16
Chris Stewart	Wow.	30:08
George Scarborough Jr.	$25,000. And this house valued at $80,000 now with the work. The repair and all and the addition on. And I bought three and a half acres land in the back. I go all the way back over here.	30:11
Chris Stewart	You have three and a half acres of land?	30:25
George Scarborough Jr.	Three and a half acres of land in the back back there.	30:28
Chris Stewart	Wow.	30:29
George Scarborough Jr.	Three and a half. I go way out here almost to Hillside School back up in there. The cemetery come up from the street over here too, and it stop right over there and go down that way. But I go all the way back from this house right over here. I go all the way to the house over there and all this is mine all the way in the back. And I bought that and I paid $15,000 for that land. I done have $40,000 off me and I turned it down. I'm going to get more than that.	30:30
Chris Stewart	Oh, yeah, you will.	30:52
George Scarborough Jr.	I'm going to get more than that.	30:53
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	30:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. I invest my money. And sometime me and my brother sit here and talk about the rough time that we had and all and how we—My brother got five houses.	30:55
Chris Stewart	He has five houses?	31:09
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, he has five houses. He didn't go further than eighth grade too.	31:10
Chris Stewart	Really?	31:13
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. And he's got five houses and he retired from Liggett & Myers, you see? Well, he gets a bigger salary because Liggett & Myers has got a better retirement plan than Duke, you see, because you makes more money.	31:13
Chris Stewart	Right.	31:27
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. So when he retired he gave him proper sharing was $60,000.	31:28
Chris Stewart	Do Liggett Myers have a union over there too?	31:34
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, they have a union too.	31:36
Chris Stewart	Was your brother a member of the union?	31:37
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, yeah.	31:39
Chris Stewart	Did he think—I mean, do you think that the reason why he got paid more and had better whatever, you know—	31:42
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, they had—	31:48
Chris Stewart	[Inaudible 00:31:50].	31:49
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, they had better working condition, but with the union, integration after the integration come in the plant and all like that, then the Blacks had some of the good position and all like that. Because when he went there, he was working at a rough place and all, and lot of dust.	31:50
Chris Stewart	In the plant or in the union?	32:19
George Scarborough Jr.	In the plant, in the plant.	32:19
Chris Stewart	Okay.	32:19
George Scarborough Jr.	And so, he had a better position and all. And you see, they got Black boss mens up there and got Black supervisor and you didn't have that there now, so it's much different now. But then, [indistinct 00:32:37].	32:22
Chris Stewart	Was the union segregated as well?	32:37
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, the union was segregated. Yeah, but they couldn't do no more then. That's way back.	32:39
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	32:48
George Scarborough Jr.	They couldn't do no more. They couldn't do but so much, but the pain condition, you'll see everybody was get paid. What was your position working? And when you working with regards to [indistinct 00:33:01], we would make the same money. Yeah, so that's the way it was up there.	32:49
Chris Stewart	So of all these jobs that you've been telling us about, do you have a favorite? Is there something that one of the jobs that you just liked the most?	33:06
George Scarborough Jr.	Duke University is the best job that I ever had in my life.	33:15
Chris Stewart	Why is that?	33:18
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, number one, I didn't have to work as hard. At Duke University, I did the jobs that I had before. I had a good job at Duke University, but I was getting housekeepers pay. I was getting $8.50 cents an hour, but when I start out, I wasn't, you see?	33:19
Chris Stewart	Yeah. But when you finished, that's what [indistinct 00:33:44].	33:41
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, when I finished I was getting. And that's the low—At Duke housekeeping, there's [indistinct 00:33:49], that's the lower paid person out. There's housekeeping. And when you get the top pay, you'd be making $8.50 cents an hour, so that's what I was getting. But you see, you didn't have to do a whole lot of work and the work wasn't hard. Had a lot of fun out there, talking and chatting with the ladies in the office and all out there and you had to go out in the weather. You had the heat in the wintertime and the air conditioner in the summer and all that, you see? And I like that because I had a chance to move up with the maintenance and I wouldn't go.	33:43
Chris Stewart	Oh, really?	34:23
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, for a dollar an hour more.	34:23
Chris Stewart	Oh, wow.	34:28
George Scarborough Jr.	But they going to start me off of it. I wanted to stay there, you see, in housekeeping because it was [indistinct 00:34:35] and it was in and out, you see? So I wanted to stay on out there. I had another job too. I had a chance to move up two or three times out there for a dollar more hour, [indistinct 00:34:48]. But it wasn't long before that dollar and half before I retired, maybe two, three years, you see? I said, "I'm going on out and housekeeping." Because I started, I said, "I'm going on out." But I could have gone on housekeeping because they wanted me in the maintenance apartment. Because see, I put floor tile down too, you see?	34:28
Chris Stewart	Oh, yeah.	35:05
George Scarborough Jr.	I do floor tile, I do—	35:06
Chris Stewart	All that experience.	35:08
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, all experience that I have. I do floor tile and do carpenter work too, you see, and all that. And they wanted me and, "No, I'm going to stay right where I'm at." I told them, "I'm not going to leave these women to go over there." [Inaudible 00:35:27].	35:09
Chris Stewart	Oh, so that had something to do with it, huh?	35:26
George Scarborough Jr.	Yes, it did too.	35:28
Chris Stewart	You're still a sporting man.	35:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, I'm single. But I'm single, you see? I was single.	35:31
Chris Stewart	Did you get married?	35:35
George Scarborough Jr.	I had married a second marriage. And my wife, I got her the job at Duke, and her two boys and her brother a job at Duke. Got them all there. I talked to the man for them and she is still there. Yeah, she is still there.	35:40
Chris Stewart	Are you still married?	35:56
George Scarborough Jr.	No, I divorced. Got two divorces around in my drawer around there. I divorced the first wife after she wouldn't take me back. I waited for her for three years and cried and asked her to take me back. She said, "I told you if you the last man in the world, I wouldn't take you back." So she didn't want me no more. But that's who I wanted to—But I went ahead and married. The second marriage, and it didn't last long. While we was going together, everything was fine. But after we got married, the bottom fell out of it.	35:57
Chris Stewart	Oh, yeah?	36:24
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. She was from Hillsborough.	36:25
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	36:31
George Scarborough Jr.	And I was staying up there with her. And after the thing happened, then I had bought this house after I found out that we wasn't going to make it. I slipped and bought this house without she knowing anything because I had bought it in my brother's name.	36:32
Chris Stewart	Oh.	36:52
George Scarborough Jr.	The one at Liggett & Myers. I bought it his name because you see, if I'd bought the house in her name—She got her own home there. Her mama and dad gave her two acres of land out in the country, so she built a house. Nice brick home, five room on the land. But you see, when we married, her name would've been on this deed too, you see? But mine not on hers. So I wouldn't have gotten anything from her, but she could have come in here and got part of my house, you see? My house, I'll be through paying for it in October or November this year right here.	36:52
Chris Stewart	Oh, wow.	37:26
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I'll be through.	37:26
Chris Stewart	That'll be great.	37:28
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, and that Volvo out there of mine, out there is wrecked. That Volvo wrecked out there, mine out there. I finished paying for that. That's a $30,000 car. I finished paying for that in December. So I told them, I said, "I'm not going to walk out this door until everything is just about paid for." So I was four years paying for that. My Volvo, I bought an '87, last '87, $30,000 car. And that's another thing. When I bought that and drive it out there to Duke, somebody said, "Scarborough—" Said, "What are all them people doing standing around your car out there?"	37:30
George Scarborough Jr.	I said, "I don't know and I don't care." So they was standing around, my supervisor, his boss, his boss's boss and his boss's boss, all them standing around and looking. Said, "He got to be a drug dealer or a bootlegger." My supervisor say, "He's not a drug dealer," and say, "He's not a bootlegger." Said, "He got a 15 room house and he's got student and working people." So he said, "Oh." "See?" "Yeah?" He said, "Yeah." Says, "He got some money too." Said, "He don't have to sell drugs and he don't have to sell whiskey and stuff." And so, everything was all right then. Yeah.	38:00
Chris Stewart	Well, I tell you what, if you'd like, I'd like to hear you play some music.	38:46
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay, well, I'll play some music now. You want to cut this off here now?	38:50
Chris Stewart	Yeah, and I'm going to actually—	38:52
Kara Miles	I just have a few questions, I wanted to go back to things you said. When you're talking about the Piccolo houses, did different classes of people go there? Did the people from the Mutual go there, the same places tobacco workers went?	38:53
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right, right. You had different types of houses, but they all was, the old peoples used to say liquor houses. And some of them call them Piccolo houses.	39:16
Kara Miles	Okay, so you had some places that the Mutual people might go to?	39:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Right.	39:33
Kara Miles	Different places.	39:33
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right. You had all. We got all your types of people, what's called [indistinct 00:39:40]. So you got some houses down in the alleys in the ghetto where the people like the Mutuals and the teachers and all, they wouldn't have gone to those places.	39:35
Chris Stewart	Would they ever go slumming in those places? You said that there were some people who sometimes on the White side came and got drunk and tried to find themselves a woman on the Black side of town. Were there ever any richer people who would go, just hang out in some of the other kinds of houses?	39:53
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right. They would hang out in the Piccolo houses. Just like I said, they wouldn't go down where the ones in the ghetto, what you used to call the ghetto a long time ago. They wouldn't hang out in those houses. They would hang out in some nice houses, but they were still liquor houses or Piccolo houses. But still, they would hang out in some nice houses, you see? And they didn't allow nobody in there that are arguing or fussing or somebody's girlfriend come in there and they all fuss or something like that. It's different types of people, you see, that would go to real nice places. We had some real nice, intelligent places, you see, that they were running. The school teachers and the Mutual worker and all like that, you see, would go to it. And then after they integrated, you'll see the White started coming over and joining up with the Black and had a good time.	40:09
Chris Stewart	Was there different kind of music played in each of the houses?	41:04
George Scarborough Jr.	No, it'd be about the same kind of music. But you just had different types of people in different types of places.	41:06
Chris Stewart	Right.	41:14
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, because the White joined up with the Black and they had a good time. You would dance with my girlfriend and I would dance with your girlfriend and all like that, and had a nice time. After the integration and all like that, people got along good together. But just like I said, you going to have some White will act up and you going to have some Black will act up every once in a while. But in these nice houses, they didn't have that. You raise your voice [indistinct 00:41:42], then somebody escort you out the door, if you White or Black.	41:14
George Scarborough Jr.	But we here to have a good time and that's what we going to have, no all and no fussing or nothing like that. So that's what we here for. And it's right, and everybody got the equal right to be here. It's no color or anything like that has anything to do with it. This the way you act. If you act good, you are welcome here as long as you want to. But if you act up and all like that, you going to have to get out of here and don't come back anymore. So that was the bottom line of it. But we had a nice time and all, and I hung out in some of them nice places with them and all like that. And I would [indistinct 00:42:23]. Ah, the first get guitar that I bought cost $8.	41:46
Chris Stewart	Oh, wow.	42:31
George Scarborough Jr.	That was in South Carolina. It was cost $8. That's the first guitar that I owned, cost $8. Yeah, the first guitar that I owned cost $8. But I used to kept my guitar around and they would love to hear me play and singing. And I used to, you know—	42:32
Chris Stewart	In the Piccolo houses, you [indistinct 00:42:52]?	42:50
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right. Used carry the guitar around Piccolo houses. "Scarborough out there." "Well, tell him come on in here and bring that guitar. Has he got it with him?" "I don't know." But see, I kept it locked up in the trunk, you know, the car. I had an old car and I would bring it in. And so, John D. Holman, the one I was telling you about, he would be on one side of the town and sometime we would meet up and play together. Sometime we play together. Now, he's a good singer. He can beat me singing. Oh, he can sing. I would like for you to hear him too sometime.	42:51
Chris Stewart	Well, maybe we can arrange to sit down and talk to the two of you together.	43:24
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Right, right.	43:32
Chris Stewart	You can play together for us.	43:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Because he retired and he's good too. But he can really sing. He can beat me singing. He's a good singer. He can sing, yeah.	43:32
Kara Miles	So the people who owned the Piccolo houses, did they pay you to come perform?	43:41
George Scarborough Jr.	You would get all the whiskey and beer and food that you wanted [indistinct 00:43:55]. It wasn't a party, it was just I showed up at this house and didn't know I played, and they asked me to come in, go out and get the guitar because I was in there shooting my drinks to start with, you see, and all. Then I get tired, I say, "It's out in the car." "Well, go out there and get it. Somebody go out there and get the guitar." There's the place I go out there. So everything would be free. So back then, that was something great. You could drink free and eat free, you know?	43:47
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	44:28
George Scarborough Jr.	Your pig feets and your chitlins and your fish and your fried chicken and barbecue chicken, all that stuff was free, you see? And it was great to see you didn't have to spend no money. But the rest of the people, they had to spend their money. But I could eat all I want and I drink all I want. But we used to go to Apex and Holly Springs and I'd go to Roxboro.	44:29
Chris Stewart	To play?	44:59
George Scarborough Jr.	Just—	45:00
Chris Stewart	Check out the houses?	45:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Just check out houses, just checking out houses and all.	45:02
Chris Stewart	You're basically looking for a good time.	45:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Looking for a good time. That's right, looking for a good time. Because it was a lot of that we go to the country in Roxboro and all like that and have a good time, you see? And we go to Holly Springs down here and Apex down there, and [indistinct 00:45:27] down there.	45:07
Chris Stewart	Were they different? Were the Piccolo houses different down there?	45:28
George Scarborough Jr.	No, they wasn't any different, but—	45:32
Chris Stewart	Different people?	45:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Different people. We're all about the same, but you meet different—Well, strange people, you know? You meet strange people and you get acquainted with them and all like that. And then, they'd be nice people and then he wants to go back because they treat you nice and all that. So you wanted to go back, you see, and join with them because you had a good time. Said, "Man, I had a good time last night." Said, "Where was you at last night?" I said, "I was in Apex, man." Said, "Man—" Them guys down there said, "Don't lie, you done mess with the women's down there." I said, 'Nobody didn't say—" I said, "I had one on one knee, one on the other."	45:34
George Scarborough Jr.	And I said, "We had a good time down there." I said, "Two of them wanted to come back to Durham with me." I said, "But you know, impossible for me to bring two women back in the house. There would've been a fight and you know that." I said, "But no, we had a good time." I said, "We really had a good time." I said, "Where you been?" I said, "I was in Roxboro out there." And I said, "I had a good time out there." And yeah, [indistinct 00:46:36] the family from Roxboro moving in Durham and that was about—Because that's when I was drinking, that was about 24, 25 years ago. And they moved me in the Durham and they couldn't find me. And they were looking for me, couldn't find me or anything, so I—	46:14

George Scarborough Jr.	So I was at Hunter Square and one of the brothers heard me talking and he walked up to me and says, "I know that voice of yours", says, "This is George Scarborough Jr." He called me all of my name. "This is George Scarborough Jr. The blues man." I said, "Yeah." I said, "Yeah, but I don't know you." He said, "I know you", said, "I'll never forget your voice. You done got older, but you look the same way that you looked 25 years ago." And he said, "I cannot forget that face and I won't forget that fact." I said, "Well, I don't know you, fella."	0:04
George Scarborough Jr.	But he was a small—He's probably 35 years old now, but he was small, you know?	0:41
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	0:47
George Scarborough Jr.	Real small.	0:48
George Scarborough Jr.	And he said, "My name is Bailey." And I said, "You Lydia's brother?" He said, "Yeah. Mary, Annie and all of them." I said, "Well, well, well, well. " I said, "I know you now, but I can't—" I said, "I know you by your name." I said, "But it's been a long time ago." He said, "It's been a long time."	0:49
George Scarborough Jr.	I said, "Where are your sisters and all of them?" He said, "My mama and daddy and two of my sisters are here in Durham." And he said, "And the rest of them is in Roxboro."	1:10
George Scarborough Jr.	And so he says, "Do you have a phone?" I said, "Yeah, I has a phone." He said, "What's your number?" I said, "682 0936." He said, "Well, when I get back to the house, I'm going to tell you."	1:19
George Scarborough Jr.	And when I walk in the house, the phone start ringing; all of them calling me. "Boy, where—?" The old lady. She's like, "Boy, where in the world you've been all this time, boy?" You know, people call you boy, you know? I don't say anything, but they'll call you boy.	1:28
George Scarborough Jr.	"Boy, where in the world have you been so long. I've been looking for you, boy." I said, "Well, I've been right here in Durham here." She said, "Well, I want to see you." Said, "James", her son James, "James said you hadn't changed, said you looked about the same 25 years ago." I said, "Well, I'm got older now." "Yes, but James said I'll want to see you."	1:42
George Scarborough Jr.	So I had to visit her and her daughters and all of them.	2:02
George Scarborough Jr.	And I dated one of her daughters, the one named Lily. She got married and she divorced. Her and her husband divorced. But I dated her.	2:06
George Scarborough Jr.	And I started talking back with her, but she said, "Before you start", she said, "I'm engaged again." I said, "Oh Lord have mercy Jesus." So her husband was working out of town, and I said, "Well," I said, "There I goes." I says, "Oh, hard luck me."	2:15
George Scarborough Jr.	So yeah, she says, "Yeah, I'm engaged to get married again."	2:31
George Scarborough Jr.	So we went together a long time ago, but we still talk and have fun.	2:36
George Scarborough Jr.	And they call me all the time. I goes by and talk to them and so forth on. They is from Roxboro. And so we still have fun.	2:40
George Scarborough Jr.	So I run into some of the old timers sometime and we talk and have fun, but I don't get around much anymore like I used to, you know?	2:50
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	2:58
George Scarborough Jr.	Just like I said, a far—	2:59
George Scarborough Jr.	My buddy in South Carolina, he wants me to join up with him. But you see, I cannot travel with him like I would like to, because you see, he be gone for two and three weeks, sometime a month, because he go to Chicago and New Orleans. And he wanted me to go to New Orleans with him down there to the blues—What? The blues fest?	3:01
Chris Stewart	Yeah, the Blues Festival. Or the Blues Jazz Festival.	3:31
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. Blues Jazz Festival. He was down there, because I had his tape around there. He cut a tape and gave me it.	3:35
Chris Stewart	Oh wow.	3:40
George Scarborough Jr.	So I got his tape when he was playing at the blues festival.	3:41
George Scarborough Jr.	So he's Drink Small. He's blues doctor number one and I'm blues doctor number two.	3:45
Chris Stewart	Oh.	3:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Yeah, Drink Small, the blues doctor number one. And I'm the blues doctor number two.	3:55
George Scarborough Jr.	He said, "You got two doctors in the house tonight", and said, "I'm the blues doctor number one and he's blues doctor number two."	3:56
Chris Stewart	That's good.	4:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. "My name's Drink Small, I'm from Columbia, South Carolina. And he was born and raised down [indistinct 00:04:09], but he's from Durham now and he has his home in Durham." He said, "But he's a blues doctor number two."	4:03
George Scarborough Jr.	And he is funny too. And oh man, you ought to hear me sometimes. I just had to put some words and all like that and have him laughing going on.	4:13
George Scarborough Jr.	I tell him "I was mislead, I was hit beside the head and I was left for dead." I said, "But I'm a survivor because I'm still here and all like that," and have them laughing. I said, "I ain't never had enough of nothing in my life." I said, "I just keep right on loving it. That's what I do."	4:23
George Scarborough Jr.	And I just talk. I talk, you know? And have fun and all that. And so we have a nice time, and having fun and all.	4:39
George Scarborough Jr.	They have a place downtown, The Talk of the Town. So they have blues players there now.	4:47
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	4:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Uh-huh. But they have bands, you know?	4:55
Chris Stewart	Right.	4:58
George Scarborough Jr.	I was trying to get him to get my band. We was at the Home Quarters downtown. You heard of Home Quarters?	4:58
Chris Stewart	Uh-huh.	5:06
George Scarborough Jr.	We was there—He was there somewhere around January, February—In February.	5:07
Chris Stewart	Really?	5:16
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, he was in February.	5:17
Chris Stewart	Wow.	5:18
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, he was there. So I was down there with him that night down there. And we had a time, everybody was talking about the time that we had. It got all over town.	5:19
George Scarborough Jr.	And he was leaving going to the Virginia, and he was going to Tennessee and Cincinnati, and he was planning on going on back down to Georgia, and from then on throughout New Orleans and on to Chicago. But—	5:31
Chris Stewart	That's a lot to be traveling.	5:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. But I can't travel because of me with this house and all. I got the tenants here now and all this.	5:55
George Scarborough Jr.	I mean, my private home here, you see?	6:04
Chris Stewart	Right.	6:06
George Scarborough Jr.	If I hadn't the house, like my brother—My brother, he goes all the time. He's not a blues player or anything, but he goes a whole lot. But you see, he's got his houses rented out to him, you know?	6:06
Chris Stewart	Oh. Yeah.	6:16
George Scarborough Jr.	Owners, you see? And so he ain't got to worry about his money come once a month, you see. So—	6:17
Chris Stewart	So when you used to travel back when you were playing before, did you ever travel to other states or places playing the blues?	6:23
George Scarborough Jr.	No, I never have traveled to other states, because number one, when I first started I had to stay around with my children. They were young and my wife didn't want me to leave. She needed me to the children. And so I stayed around and had to raise the children up.	6:30
George Scarborough Jr.	And so after I raised the children up, then I started drinking. So I had that drinking problem and all and then I couldn't do anything then.	6:46
George Scarborough Jr.	And then after I got off the bottle and I was trying to make a comeback, then I working two jobs, so I couldn't do nothing. Then I stuck with them two jobs.	6:55
George Scarborough Jr.	So now would be the only time that I could travel some. If I get things situated around here, I could travel some now.	7:04
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:07:16] responsible.	7:15
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. Somebody responsible for it. That would be the only way that I can do any traveling now.	7:16
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	7:24
George Scarborough Jr.	So I want to visit my daughter. She wants me to come up and visit her in Indiana, in Indianapolis, Indiana. I want to go to visit her. And I want to go to see my sister in Washington DC, and I want to go to see the two in New York.	7:24
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	7:39
George Scarborough Jr.	And then I want to go there.	7:40
George Scarborough Jr.	And I wants to go back to Miami, Florida, because we went on our honeymoon down there and I met some nice people down there when I was in Miami and I want to go back to Miami.	7:43
George Scarborough Jr.	So I'm going to travel some later, but I got to get everything situated around here before I can do any traveling thing.	7:54
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	8:04
George Scarborough Jr.	So that's what I'll have to do later on when I get things situated.	8:05
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	8:10
George Scarborough Jr.	And I wants to get up with my buddy, Drink Small, blues doctor number one, because we have a good time together. Yeah, we have a good time together talking and laughing and talking about old times and everything.	8:11
George Scarborough Jr.	Because we used to have house parties in South Carolina.	8:31
Chris Stewart	Before you came up here?	8:35
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. And Drink Small used to play for me at the parties that I'd have.	8:36
Chris Stewart	You've known him a long time.	8:42
George Scarborough Jr.	I've known him a long time. I've known him about 40 years.	8:43
Chris Stewart	Wow.	8:47
George Scarborough Jr.	40 years. I've known Drink Small about 40 years.	8:48
Chris Stewart	So where were these house parties?	8:51
George Scarborough Jr.	On this place, the boss would let you have a house party in one of the vacancy house. Wasn't nobody—Empty houses, wasn't nobody in.	8:56
George Scarborough Jr.	So you would barbecue a pig and have some apple and oranges and peanuts and so forth on to sell. And that's the way you could make a little money, you see. Extra money, you see.	9:08
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	9:22
George Scarborough Jr.	And so they would let you have a party in one of the empty houses.	9:23
Chris Stewart	Was there any liquor there?	9:27
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, white liquor. There was plenty of that. Somebody going to sell white liquor. I don't care what happened, you'd have somebody was going to be there with some white liquor.	9:28
George Scarborough Jr.	But you see, what I would do, I would buy the white liquor and get some of my cousins to sell it for me.	9:36
Chris Stewart	Oh.	9:41
George Scarborough Jr.	And so—	9:41
Chris Stewart	How come you'd have your cousin do it?	9:41
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, somebody I could trust that didn't put the money in their pocket, you see.	9:45
George Scarborough Jr.	I mean, when you put in their big shoes, you give me all of it. I would choose somebody that I could trust about 100% or something like that, you see.	9:49
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	9:57
George Scarborough Jr.	I'd give him a little something for selling for me.	9:57
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	10:00
George Scarborough Jr.	So I would—Well, I'd make all the money, you see. And I didn't allow nobody else to bring in the whiskey on the premises, because when you have one of those parties, somebody from someplace else will bring whiskey there and be selling it too, you see.	10:01
George Scarborough Jr.	But I had guys that watched out for that, and if anybody tried to sell any whiskey and all like that, I would go out and talk to them and tell them they can't sell no whiskey here because that would knock my trade out. So they would leave.	10:14
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, they would leave because I had the party, and everything that was made there that night was mine, you see. The pig was mine, the barbecue pig, and then the peanuts and apples. And my wife would bake pies and sell pies and chicken sandwiches.	10:29
Chris Stewart	Who would come to them?	10:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh, you would be surprised.	10:55
Chris Stewart	How far would people travel?	10:56
George Scarborough Jr.	People would travel, I'd say 10 and 15 to 20 miles.	10:57
George Scarborough Jr.	And you didn't have no phone or anything like that. The word—Just spread the word downtown at churches or somewhere and the word would get out that says, "Scarborough's having a party next Saturday night."	11:02
George Scarborough Jr.	"Oh yeah?" Said, "Who's going to play for him?" Said, "He's going to get Drink." Because I wouldn't play because I had to watch the house and all, you see. So I would get Drink Small to play. And he was one of the best players, you see, one of the best guitar players down through there, you see.	11:17
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	11:31
George Scarborough Jr.	And I would just say, "Drink Small going play for him."	11:32
George Scarborough Jr.	And then I had a cousin, his name was Frank Washington, he was a good guitar player too. But you see, he left South Carolina, just like I did, before I did, because he was much older than I was, and he went up north.	11:34
George Scarborough Jr.	His name was Frank Washington. He was a cousin.	11:48
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	11:50
George Scarborough Jr.	And he had—Two brothers played the guitar: Frank Washington and Dick Washington. And he had a brother who blew the harmonica. He was one of the best harmonica blowers that's ever been in the state.	11:51
Chris Stewart	Wow.	12:01
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	12:02
George Scarborough Jr.	So both of them played the guitar and one brother blew the harmonica.	12:02
Chris Stewart	So how did you get to meet all these people to come to play at your house party?	12:05
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay, you're talking about the one that visited the party, right? You're talking about the one that visited or the one that played?	12:10
Chris Stewart	The people that played. Like you're talking about this guy who played the harmonica.	12:18
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay, well, that was my cousin too.	12:21
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	12:23
George Scarborough Jr.	Both of those are my cousins.	12:23
George Scarborough Jr.	But you see, I met a whole lot of people that played the guitar that wasn't related to me at all. But in the country, the word goes. It goes, it spreads all 10 or 15 or 20 mile. It spreads in Lee County, which was Bishopville, and Sumter County, and Darlington County, and three or four other counties too.	12:25
George Scarborough Jr.	But the word, it just spread. I don't have articles, you didn't have talk phones or anything. Only did the man that owned the line had a phone. You didn't have any phones at all. There wasn't any telephone. But the word was just spread. And it wasn't on paper to advertise in the paper or on radio or anything like that.	12:56
George Scarborough Jr.	But the word was just spread. You would be surprised at people going to town and talk about the party. You would announce it two weeks before, you know? You would announce your party just two weeks before, and you would have a packed house. Sometimes they all couldn't get inside and would stand out in the yard.	13:21
George Scarborough Jr.	It'd be in the summertime mostly, but most time it'd be in the winter time too, see.	13:42
George Scarborough Jr.	And then too, they used to have a big bonfire. They call them a bonfire now, but they called them a log fire then.	13:46
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	13:53
George Scarborough Jr.	They had a log fire out in the yard. You had a lot of people out there running that log fire, just laughing and talking, having a good time.	13:54
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	14:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Laughing, talking, telling jokes and everything. And drinking our corn whiskey, because that's all they had, that corn whiskey out there. And just laughing and going on and having a good time. And it was really enjoyment.	14:03
George Scarborough Jr.	They didn't have much money and all, but they had a lot of fun and everything, you know? They had a lot of fun and people got along good together.	14:16
George Scarborough Jr.	And people used to help one another. That's what I like.	14:23
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	14:27
George Scarborough Jr.	They used to help one another.	14:27
George Scarborough Jr.	You would need food—I remember our food used to give out some time on Thursday and daddy didn't got paid off until Saturday at 12 o'clock.	14:29
Chris Stewart	Uh-huh.	14:42
George Scarborough Jr.	Food would give out.	14:42
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, you'd go to the neighborhood and mama would go in the neighborhood there somewhere, and people would raise—You had to raise your own food and everything and grow your own food. And they would can up all this food. It wasn't even cans, it was jars, you know?	14:43
Chris Stewart	Right.	15:01
George Scarborough Jr.	And all that. And people would give you a jar, this jar of that.	15:01
George Scarborough Jr.	And sweet potato hill. Have you ever seen sweet potato hill? Have you ever heard talk of sweet potato hill?	15:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay, well, a sweet potato hill, they put that in the fall of the year where you can have sweet potato all winter long.	15:10
George Scarborough Jr.	You dig a round place in the ground about this deep right here, and you go in the woods and you work up pine needles. And you put them down in the bottom about this deep and then you put your sweet potatoes on and you build up a hill about this right here.	15:20
George Scarborough Jr.	Then you put the pine needles all up on them sweet potatoes, all around, all around the sweet potatoes. And then you start putting dirt down there and just go all the way around putting dirt, and you come all the way up with that dirt, all the way up with that dirt till you get to the top. But you had to leave a breather at the top of that sweet potato hill and put a piece of tin over it so the rainwater wouldn't go down in there.	15:43
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	16:09
George Scarborough Jr.	You see, the breeze would come out each way like that.	16:10
Chris Stewart	Right.	16:14
George Scarborough Jr.	And that was the sweet potato that you would use during the wintertime.	16:15
George Scarborough Jr.	You would take a tub. The old people used to call them a foot tub, but you know, a small tub. And they would go out there in that sweet potato hill.	16:20
George Scarborough Jr.	Daddy, he didn't allow nobody's children—Nobody could—He didn't allow mama out there.	16:31
Chris Stewart	Sure.	16:34
George Scarborough Jr.	Because he would leave a hole open and water would get down there and rot your sweet potato.	16:35
Chris Stewart	Right.	16:39
George Scarborough Jr.	Because when you get the sweet potatoes out and bring them in the house, they'll last a week, you see. Then you had to cover that hole back up, you see, where the water wouldn't get down in there.	16:39
Chris Stewart	Right.	16:48
George Scarborough Jr.	And those are the sweet potatoes that you had to have during the winter to feed your family with.	16:49
Chris Stewart	Right.	16:53
George Scarborough Jr.	So that when the butter beans is over and the field [indistinct 00:16:54] peas over, the green, then you let them stay out there and dry. Then you harvest the dry beans and the dry peas and tie them up in a tobacco sheet and put them in the barn. Or they used to call the place a smokehouse. You put them in there and they'll dry out.	16:54
George Scarborough Jr.	And when you get ready for a messer, to cook some dry peas or dry beans—You put some in a towsack and take a stick and beat them. You'll beat that sack and the peas will come out of the hull.	17:21
Chris Stewart	Oh.	17:39
George Scarborough Jr.	Or the beans will come out of the hull.	17:39
George Scarborough Jr.	And then you open it up and you take your hands and put the hulls over there and all that. Then you got some fine hulls in with the pea.	17:41
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, you wait till the wind start blowing and you take up some out here and you hold them well up like this and turn them loose. And by the time they get down there, the wind be done blow that fine stuff off of side over there. And when they reach down to the bottom there, you got the clear peas, the clear beans.	17:51
Chris Stewart	Oh.	18:07
George Scarborough Jr.	But you got to wait till the wind be blowing, and the wind will blow that fine stuff over there.	18:08
George Scarborough Jr.	And then you cook those dry peas and they call it Hoppin' John.	18:12
Chris Stewart	You were telling me about that.	18:20
George Scarborough Jr.	Hoppin' John.	18:21
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	18:22
George Scarborough Jr.	Then you take an old ham that you done cut all the meat off of, then slice the meat and all that, and then you chop a piece of that ham and you put it in them beans or them peas and cook.	18:22
George Scarborough Jr.	You're talking about smell good the neighborhood, "Oh, they're cooking some peas over there and I smell that ham." All the neighbors in the afternoon, you could smell it.	18:35
George Scarborough Jr.	And then when the peas get about done, then you put some rice in there.	18:44
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	18:48
George Scarborough Jr.	Because it don't take rice long to cook, but it takes dry peas maybe an hour and a half to cook, sometimes two hours. It's slow.	18:49
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	18:55
George Scarborough Jr.	And they call that Hoppin' John.	18:56
George Scarborough Jr.	I had a many plate of Hoppin' John.	19:01
George Scarborough Jr.	And sometimes you cook the rice separate, you cook the rice in a separate pot, and the beans and peas in a separate pot, and then you take your rice and then take your beans and your peas and put it on the side of them, or sometimes you put them on top of them.	19:03
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	19:17
George Scarborough Jr.	And you ate that and ate your ham or your fatback or so forth on.	19:18
George Scarborough Jr.	And mama make those biscuits, you know? We'd have butter biscuits and all like that. And then you had your fresh green peas that's been in the jars, canned.	19:22
Chris Stewart	Oh, right.	19:36
George Scarborough Jr.	So she'd open a can of tomatoes or a can of green peas, a can of okra and tomatoes. Then you used to have the okras and the tomatoes and butter beans and corn up together and all that. And that was good too, you see.	19:36
George Scarborough Jr.	So all that stuff that you had.	19:52
George Scarborough Jr.	And you had your own chicken, you see, your frying size chicken on the yard, on Sunday anytime, usually, you'd take one and lock him up to clean him out before you cook him, you see.	19:54
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	20:03
George Scarborough Jr.	Before you kill him. You had to clean him out for two or three days, you see, because he'd be out there eating chicken. He'd eat all kinds of things out there. So you'd put him up and clean him out for the weekend.	20:03
George Scarborough Jr.	But the sad thing, the preacher would come and they would feed the preacher on Sunday and so the preacher would eat all the good chicken and then we would have the wings, gizzard or the head or neck.	20:13
George Scarborough Jr.	And I would get mad but I couldn't say anything. I said "That preacher is eating—my, the preacher is eating all the good stuff. And here I'm eating the feet." The feet!	20:29
George Scarborough Jr.	And I'm mad but I couldn't say anything. Mama said, "What's wrong with you, boy." I, "Nothing!" I had a smile on my face, "Nothing!" She said, "Well look like I seen you had a mean looks on your face." I said, "It's just hot today, Mama." And all bad. But I couldn't let her know that. 'Cause I—	20:44
Chris Stewart	And your mama was the person who just—Was she the person that disciplined you and your family, or was your dad the one?	21:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. Mama was. Mama was. Dad would sit back, and mama, she was the one, you see. What she said—She's the one who gave me all the whoopings just about. Daddy whooped me a few times. Mama would've whooped me. I got all my whoopings from mama just about.	21:09
George Scarborough Jr.	She was left-handed. Well, she'd give me a backhand right in my mouth for talking. Children couldn't talk while growing people was talking. You better not say nothing. You couldn't say anything at all, smack in your mouth.	21:23
George Scarborough Jr.	And so that's all what we went through. But people said, "Those were the good old days." In a way, yes; in a way, no.	21:38
Chris Stewart	In what way yes?	21:49
George Scarborough Jr.	Yes, because you enjoyed such as what you had.	21:50
Chris Stewart	Okay.	22:01
George Scarborough Jr.	You enjoyed it.	22:01
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	22:02
George Scarborough Jr.	That wasn't much.	22:03
Chris Stewart	Right.	22:05
George Scarborough Jr.	But such is what you had.	22:05
Chris Stewart	And then in what ways no?	22:07
George Scarborough Jr.	Food used to run out sometime Thursday afternoon, and Friday you didn't have no food. But daddy got paid off at 12:30 on Saturday.	22:11
George Scarborough Jr.	And I wouldn't know.	22:19
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Mama had to go around and get something from somebody's house. You know what I'm talking about?	22:21
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	22:26
George Scarborough Jr.	And I wouldn't know.	22:27
George Scarborough Jr.	But going out there on the yard there and getting the chicken there, you know, frying size chicken.	22:29
George Scarborough Jr.	And going in the smokehouse, they used to call it a smokehouse, and cutting off some ham, country hams; fry that and you could smell, you could smell it all over everywhere.	22:34
George Scarborough Jr.	And it would taste good too. You'd fry it and make a gravy. They called it Joe Louis gravy. That was a gravy. They called it Joe Louis gravy. That gravy had—You'd take that gravy and put it over grits.	22:45
Chris Stewart	Why would it be called Joe Louis gravy?	22:51
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, just like the Herbert Hoover dinner.	23:01
Chris Stewart	Oh [indistinct 00:23:04].	23:03
George Scarborough Jr.	The Hoppin' John was the Herbert Hooper dinner. That was Herbert Hooper dinner. That was back during the Depression, you see.	23:04
Chris Stewart	Right.	23:12
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. During the Depression.	23:12
George Scarborough Jr.	So that was the Herbert Hooper dinner.	23:14
George Scarborough Jr.	And they called that the Joe Louis gravy because when mama took two eggs and fed 10 people, that was something, you know? She made a Joe Louis gravy.	23:16
George Scarborough Jr.	She took two eggs and fed 10 people. Everybody said I was lying, but I explained to them, "She made a gravy." Took some—browned some flour, and some grease and browned some flour, and made a gravy. And she cracked two eggs in that gravy and stirred up in there.	23:24
George Scarborough Jr.	So you had some eggs all the way through the gravy, but she just didn't fed 10 people with just two eggs. It was the gravy. They called it the Joe Louis gravy.	23:46
George Scarborough Jr.	And we used a—Because you cooked a pot of grits.	23:58
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, the grits was grits, you know? And put that gravy on your grits. And then you had some biscuits to go along with it.	24:01
George Scarborough Jr.	So that's what you had.	24:10
George Scarborough Jr.	And you had a—What we were drinking was a—The old people called it sugar water, or sweetening water.	24:12
George Scarborough Jr.	You'd get a glass of water and take some sugar and put in it and stir it up, you see. And that's what you'd drink to wash your food, like how we drink a soda or milk or coke or something, or Kool-Aid or something like that.	24:27
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	24:42
George Scarborough Jr.	And something like that.	24:43
George Scarborough Jr.	And then we had these ice box, you know? The ice man used to come around and you'd buy a 25 pound ice, a 50 pound ice, and put it in your ice box. And that would—	24:44
Chris Stewart	Oh yeah.	24:55
George Scarborough Jr.	That kept your food fresh.	24:56
George Scarborough Jr.	And I remember at the time you could get 25 pound of ice for 15 cents, and we didn't even have the 15 cents to buy that 25 pound ice with.	24:59
Chris Stewart	Right.	25:08
George Scarborough Jr.	The ones that could buy it, they would get it. And the ones that couldn't buy it, you would go out to the well and run the water and would pump the water until it'd get real cool.	25:09
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:25:21].	25:19
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. And then use that, you know? Because you didn't have any money to buy that Kool-Aid with. And it was a penny a pack.	25:20
Chris Stewart	Right.	25:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, a penny a pack for Kool-Aid.	25:33
Chris Stewart	Hmm.	25:35
George Scarborough Jr.	And sugar was 2 cents a pound, and you didn't have that sugar because you didn't have anything to buy it with.	25:35
George Scarborough Jr.	There was a lot of stuff and there was plenty of stuff, but you didn't have anything to buy it with. Milk and everything. Stores were full of milk, egg and all like that, but you didn't have any money to buy it with.	25:47
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	25:57
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. There wasn't no food shortage, it was a money shortage.	25:58
Chris Stewart	Money shortage.	26:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. It was a money shortage. You didn't have anything to buy it.	26:05
Chris Stewart	Did you barter with any of your neighbors or trade for things? Like if you had something and they had something.	26:07
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. Right. You would carry some cornmeal for some flour.	26:13
Chris Stewart	Right.	26:17
George Scarborough Jr.	Or carry something for some sugar, or trade some eggs for some butter. Because they had homemade butter. Cows, you know?	26:18
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	26:24
George Scarborough Jr.	So we'd trade, you see. Flour for cornmeal, cornmeal for flour, or rice for something.	26:25
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	26:37
George Scarborough Jr.	Or you'd just trade.	26:40
Chris Stewart	Hm-mm.	26:41
George Scarborough Jr.	That's the way they'd do it. They'd trade too. Yeah.	26:41
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	26:43
George Scarborough Jr.	That's the way it felt.	26:44
George Scarborough Jr.	And then you would borrow something from them and then you would pay it back to them when you'd get it. You'd borrow a cup full of sugar, and you would borrow some flour or some cornmeal or some rice. And then when you got, your husband, if he got paid off on Saturday go somewhere and come back, then you'd pay your neighbors back what you borrowed from them.	26:46
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	27:06
George Scarborough Jr.	You see?	27:07
George Scarborough Jr.	So that's the way what happened, you see?	27:08
George Scarborough Jr.	But they was trading too, you see?	27:11
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	27:13
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	27:14
Chris Stewart	Well, that's what you needed to do, I suppose.	27:14
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. That's what it took. It took all of that to survive.	27:17
Chris Stewart	Right.	27:19
George Scarborough Jr.	It was rough and it was tough. But we made it.	27:21
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	27:24
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, we made it. Yeah.	27:24
George Scarborough Jr.	And sitting down and talking about it and thinking about it, I enjoy talking and thinking about it. But if somebody say, "Ooh, it was the good old days", I say, "Nah. Nah. Nah, nah, nah."	27:26
Chris Stewart	Well, I mean, you've got this whole house and your cars and [indistinct 00:27:44].	27:38
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Yeah. It's all in 23 years what I worked.	27:45
Chris Stewart	23 years. That's really—	27:47
George Scarborough Jr.	It's 23 years.	27:49
George Scarborough Jr.	I throwed away a lot of money partying. I had a guy to get on a calculator one night and he figured up $150,000 that I throwed away in the street partying.	27:49
Chris Stewart	Mr. Scarborough!	28:04
George Scarborough Jr.	$150,000.	28:04
Chris Stewart	Oh, wow.	28:04
George Scarborough Jr.	That's what it is.	28:09
George Scarborough Jr.	And one guy over here spent $250,000 getting his boys out of jail.	28:10
Chris Stewart	Oh wow.	28:15
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Man spent $250,000 getting his boys out of jail. They're still in jail. Stealing, fighting and robbing. He get them out. I told him, "I wouldn't get them out."	28:16
George Scarborough Jr.	I told my children, I said, "Go to jail for drink, for driving drunk, or stealing, or drugs", I said, "You stay there." I said, "You stay there."	28:28
George Scarborough Jr.	See, I got two children out of wedlock. While I was out there running around, I got a boy and a girl out of wedlock. And so they're younger than my children because she's 40 years old. That's my baby by my wife—Well, the youngest one. My wife is 40. So I got a 30 year old boy and a 32 year old girl out of wedlock out there while I was in the street out there.	28:41
Chris Stewart	Do you keep in contact with them?	29:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. They've been out here all the time, and calling and going on and wanting something.	29:05
George Scarborough Jr.	They called me last night. "Dad." I said, "What?" "Carry me to get some pizza and I've been working and I'm tired." I said, "You can walk to get your pizza. The pizza place not far from there." "I just wanted you to carry me." "Well, I'm not going to carry you. You're walking to get it." "Okay then. I'll call you next time."	29:11
Chris Stewart	You sound a lot like my dad. (laughs)	29:27
George Scarborough Jr.	And so my son, he was helping me out there, the cleanup out there in the cemetery out there.	29:29
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	29:37
George Scarborough Jr.	He was helping me out there.	29:38
George Scarborough Jr.	And my grandson too. He was cleaning.	29:39
George Scarborough Jr.	See, my grandson right there, that boy, he's 23 years old now.	29:42
Chris Stewart	Wow.	29:47
George Scarborough Jr.	And that's my granddaughter there. She's 22 now. She works at Central Carolina Bank down here off Fayetteville Road out there, where she work at.	29:48
Chris Stewart	Okay.	29:58
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	29:59
Chris Stewart	Well, Mr. Scarborough, there's just one more thing that we need to do, and that's to—We have this little form we want to show you.	30:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay.	30:08
Chris Stewart	And it's right here.	30:15
Chris Stewart	It's a family history.	30:15
George Scarborough Jr.	Uh-huh.	30:16
Chris Stewart	And we've talked some about your family, but what this form does is it basically gives us your biographical information.	30:19
Chris Stewart	And I wonder if we could just take some time and just go through it with you and then—	30:27
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh yeah. Yeah, right.	30:31
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:30:33] It's getting kind of late. We've been here a while. I don't want to tire you out.	30:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, I ain't got nowhere to go to and nothing to do. Nothing to do because I'm—	30:35
Chris Stewart	We really appreciate you.	30:42
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I'm retired, you know?	30:44
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	30:45
George Scarborough Jr.	And I don't have anything to do.	30:45
George Scarborough Jr.	My friend in the military, she's making a career out the military.	30:49
George Scarborough Jr.	I started dating her when I first got onto drinking.	30:56
Chris Stewart	Who? This one?	31:01
George Scarborough Jr.	Hmm-mm. 22 years.	31:04
George Scarborough Jr.	She's 42 now.	31:04
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	31:05
George Scarborough Jr.	She's 44 now. And she was 22 when she made that picture there.	31:05
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	31:12
George Scarborough Jr.	She's 44 years old now.	31:13
Chris Stewart	She's in the—	31:14
George Scarborough Jr.	In the military. She got four more years—Yeah, I think she got four more years.	31:16
Chris Stewart	Huh.	31:19
Chris Stewart	What part of the military is she in?	31:20
George Scarborough Jr.	She's in the Army.	31:22
Chris Stewart	Okay.	31:22
George Scarborough Jr.	She's in the Army.	31:23
George Scarborough Jr.	And she's [indistinct 00:31:25] to brag, but she done been all about, you know? And all.	31:23
George Scarborough Jr.	So she got married—	31:28
George Scarborough Jr.	When I got married a second time—	31:31
George Scarborough Jr.	We broke up and I got married a second time. Then she seen my brother and she said, "Tell your brother that I want to see him and talk to him. Because he asked me if I'd marry him once and I says—So I'm just about ready for it now." My brother says, "Too late. He done got married now."	31:33
Chris Stewart	Oh no.	31:49
George Scarborough Jr.	And so it hurt her so bad that she went in the military, and she jumped up and married and all.	31:52
Chris Stewart	Hmm.	31:55
George Scarborough Jr.	And hers didn't work and mine didn't work. I divorced and she divorced, and now we're back together.	31:55
Chris Stewart	Oh.	32:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, we're back together now.	32:03
Chris Stewart	She's got four more years, huh?	32:04
George Scarborough Jr.	She's got four more years. Yeah, she's got four more.	32:05
George Scarborough Jr.	She's 44 now. She wasn't but 22 years old in that picture there.	32:07
Chris Stewart	She's pretty.	32:10
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	32:10
Chris Stewart	She's very pretty.	32:11
George Scarborough Jr.	Yes. Yeah.	32:11
Chris Stewart	Okay, let's—We're going to start with your last name is Scarborough, your first name is George Junior. Do you have a middle name?	32:14
George Scarborough Jr.	No. No.	32:20
George Scarborough Jr.	I was 30 years old on this picture here.	32:21
Chris Stewart	Let's see.	32:24
Chris Stewart	What a sharp looking man.	32:26
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I was 30 years-	32:32
Chris Stewart	You're a sharp looking man now.	32:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Ah.	32:32
Chris Stewart	Look at that.	32:32
George Scarborough Jr.	I was 30 years old.	32:32
Chris Stewart	308 Moline, Durham.	32:32
George Scarborough Jr.	I was 40 when I got married right there. I think I was 42, 43 there.	32:37
Chris Stewart	What's the zip code here?	32:41
George Scarborough Jr.	27707.	32:42
Chris Stewart	And what's your home phone number again?	32:45
George Scarborough Jr.	682-0936.	32:48
Chris Stewart	Okay.	32:53
Chris Stewart	Now it has a place here for a nickname. Do you want me to put 'the blues doctor number two [indistinct 00:33:02]' down there?	32:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Put 'the blues doctor.' Put 'the blues doctor number two.'.	33:01
Chris Stewart	Do you have—	33:04
George Scarborough Jr.	That would be a good one.	33:04
Chris Stewart	—Number two.	33:04
Chris Stewart	Sounds like a lot of people also called you by your last name.	33:13
George Scarborough Jr.	Everybody called me Scarborough.	33:18
Chris Stewart	Hmm-mm.	33:19
George Scarborough Jr.	Everybody called me Scarborough.	33:19
Chris Stewart	And when is your birthdate?	33:20
George Scarborough Jr.	22nd. May the 22nd.	33:22
Chris Stewart	May 22nd.	33:23
Chris Stewart	What year?	33:26
George Scarborough Jr.	'33.	33:36
George Scarborough Jr.	'32—'33—'30—	33:39
George Scarborough Jr.	I was 62.	33:45
Chris Stewart	You just had a birthday.	33:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I was 62.	33:55
Chris Stewart	'31 then.	33:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. '31.	33:55
Chris Stewart	'31.	33:55
George Scarborough Jr.	'31. Because I was 62 in—	33:55
Chris Stewart	When you retired? You're 62 now?	33:55
George Scarborough Jr.	No. Saturday. This past Saturday.	33:55
Chris Stewart	You just had a birthday.	33:55
George Scarborough Jr.	The 22nd. May—Yeah.	33:55
Chris Stewart	Happy belated birthday.	33:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Thank you. May the 22nd. That was Saturday.	33:55
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	33:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	33:55
Chris Stewart	And where were you born?	33:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Bishopville, South Carolina.	33:56
Chris Stewart	What county is that?	34:08
George Scarborough Jr.	Lee County.	34:09
Chris Stewart	And you're currently divorced.	34:14
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. Right.	34:17
Chris Stewart	You know, I already see a problem with this form. There's not room for more than one spouse, which is going to be a big problem.	34:19
Chris Stewart	So your first wife's name?	34:26
George Scarborough Jr.	Emma Scarborough.	34:29
Chris Stewart	Emma?	34:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Hmm-mm.	34:32
Chris Stewart	And when was she born?	34:38
George Scarborough Jr.	South Carolina. Bishopville, South Carolina.	34:40
Chris Stewart	Do you remember her birthdate?	34:53
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. I'm two years older than she is.	34:54
Chris Stewart	Okay, so she would've been born in '33.	34:57
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Yeah.	35:00
Chris Stewart	But do you remember what date?	35:01
George Scarborough Jr.	Nope. I don't know what date.	35:03
Chris Stewart	Is she still alive?	35:05
George Scarborough Jr.	She's still alive.	35:06
Chris Stewart	Okay.	35:07
Chris Stewart	And did she ever work?	35:09
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	35:11
Chris Stewart	What kind of work did she do?	35:12
George Scarborough Jr.	She was a maid. That's all she ever done was maid work.	35:13
Chris Stewart	Okay. What about your second wife? What was her name?	35:18
George Scarborough Jr.	Willitte.	35:22
Chris Stewart	Ooh, that's a pretty name.	35:23
George Scarborough Jr.	Willitte.	35:27
Chris Stewart	W-I-L-L-E?	35:27
George Scarborough Jr.	W-I-L-L-I. There was a—It is W-I-L-L-I-T.	35:29
Chris Stewart	Okay.	35:34
George Scarborough Jr.	T.	35:35
George Scarborough Jr.	W-I-L-L-I-T-T-E. I believe that's the way you spell it.	35:35
George Scarborough Jr.	W-I-L-L-I-T-T-E. Yeah.	35:38
Chris Stewart	What was her maiden name?	35:41
George Scarborough Jr.	McCandies.	35:43
Chris Stewart	Oh!	35:44
George Scarborough Jr.	Do you remember? Those was her brothers. Those was her brothers, George and Virgie McCandies.	35:44
Chris Stewart	What was your first wife's maiden name?	35:50
George Scarborough Jr.	Fortune.	35:52
Chris Stewart	Like fortune teller Fortune?	35:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, right. Yeah, F-O-R-T-U—F-O-U—It's F-O-U-R-T-U-N-E, I believe.	35:55
Chris Stewart	Right.	35:59
George Scarborough Jr.	And that's right.	36:02
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	36:03
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Right.	36:03
Chris Stewart	Okay.	36:07
Chris Stewart	And do you remember what your second wife's birthday is?	36:07
George Scarborough Jr.	No, I don't.	36:11
Chris Stewart	Okay.	36:13
George Scarborough Jr.	No, I don't.	36:13
Chris Stewart	And where was she born?	36:14
George Scarborough Jr.	Bishopville, South Carolina in Lee County.	36:15
Chris Stewart	Your second wife was born in—	36:17
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh, no, no. Oh. No. Hillsborough, North—Orange County. Hillsborough, North Carolina. That's Orange County.	36:18
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	36:31
George Scarborough Jr.	She would be now about 55 years old.	36:35
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. She's about 55.	36:41
George Scarborough Jr.	Yep. She's about 55.	36:46
Chris Stewart	And what kind of work did she do? You said you got her a job at—	36:49
George Scarborough Jr.	[indistinct 00:36:53] maid. She was a maid. [indistinct 00:36:54]. She was a maid. You know, they call it housekeeping now, but you know, it's just the old [indistinct 00:37:02].	36:52
Chris Stewart	Okay. What was your mother's first name?	37:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Laura.	37:03
Chris Stewart	That's a pretty name too.	37:06
Chris Stewart	Did she have a middle name?	37:07
George Scarborough Jr.	No.	37:09
Chris Stewart	No.	37:09
George Scarborough Jr.	Scarborough. Laura Scarborough.	37:11
Chris Stewart	Do you know what her maiden name was?	37:12
George Scarborough Jr.	Josey. J-O-S-E-Y.	37:14
Chris Stewart	J-O-S—	37:16
George Scarborough Jr.	—O-S-E-Y.	37:16
Chris Stewart	—E-Y.	37:18
George Scarborough Jr.	Hmm-mm.	37:19
Chris Stewart	Do you know when she was born?	37:23
George Scarborough Jr.	I sure don't.	37:23
Chris Stewart	Do you remember when she died about?	37:23
George Scarborough Jr.	Mama was 66 when she died. I believe mama—That that was about—Is it five or six years ago? One or the other.	37:26
Chris Stewart	How old were you when she died?	37:37
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh, I can't remember.	37:39
Chris Stewart	Okay.	37:41
George Scarborough Jr.	I can't remember that either.	37:41
Chris Stewart	You said it was probably about five or six years ago?	37:43
George Scarborough Jr.	It was five or six years ago.	37:45
George Scarborough Jr.	And Daddy died—	37:47
Chris Stewart	One year later, right?	37:49
George Scarborough Jr.	One year.	37:49
George Scarborough Jr.	He was 83.	37:50
Chris Stewart	You said she was about 65 or 66?	37:56
George Scarborough Jr.	About 66. Mama was about 66 or 67.	38:01
Chris Stewart	Your daddy was a lot older than your mom.	38:03
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, about 67. Mama was about 67 when she died. About 67. And daddy was 83.	38:05
Chris Stewart	And was your mom born in Lee County too?	38:14
George Scarborough Jr.	My mom and daddy.	38:15
Chris Stewart	Both around Bishopville?	38:17
George Scarborough Jr.	Right.	38:18
Chris Stewart	What was your dad's first name?	38:23
George Scarborough Jr.	George.	38:25
Chris Stewart	Oh yeah, because you're a junior.	38:28
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	38:29
Chris Stewart	Boy, am I smart?	38:30
Chris Stewart	Sorry.	38:33
Chris Stewart	Senior.	38:42
George Scarborough Jr.	Hmm-mm.	38:46
Chris Stewart	And he was born in Bishopville as well?	38:47
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right. In Lee County.	38:48
Chris Stewart	They were there for a while, huh?	38:52
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. My granddaddy was born in Bishopville too, in Lee County.	38:53
Chris Stewart	And did your dad do any—? Was he—? Did he do anything else besides farm?	39:00
George Scarborough Jr.	No. No. Farmer all his life. He was a farmer.	39:06
Chris Stewart	Your mom too?	39:10
George Scarborough Jr.	That's right. All her life farmed.	39:11
Chris Stewart	Okay, let's see.	39:14
Chris Stewart	Here we go. Here comes the real test now; brothers and sisters.	39:16
Chris Stewart	Can you give me the names of your brothers and sisters?	39:23
George Scarborough Jr.	Eddie Scarborough.	39:26
Chris Stewart	Eda?	39:27
George Scarborough Jr.	Eddie.	39:28
Chris Stewart	Eddie?	39:28
George Scarborough Jr.	E-D-D-I-E.	39:29
Chris Stewart	Eddie?	39:31
George Scarborough Jr.	Hmm-mm.	39:31
Chris Stewart	Do you remember when he was born? Do you know how old he is?	39:34
George Scarborough Jr.	He's 66. He was 66 Saturday.	39:39
Chris Stewart	And is he still alive? Is he still—	39:47
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	39:47
Chris Stewart	Oh, he was 66.	39:48
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	39:49
Chris Stewart	Wait, wait, wait. Your birthdays are on the same day?	39:50
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Same day. Same day.	39:52
Chris Stewart	Well, that cuts off [indistinct 00:39:56] time, doesn't it?	39:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Saturday.	39:56
Chris Stewart	And he was born in Lee County as well?	39:57
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	40:00
Chris Stewart	In South Carolina?	40:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, in South Carolina. Yeah. Yeah.	40:02
Chris Stewart	Okay.	40:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Cut.	40:02
Chris Stewart	Oops.	40:02
George Scarborough Jr.	Cut.	40:12
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, he was born in—	40:12
Chris Stewart	This is you, right?	40:12
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, right, right, right.	40:13
Chris Stewart	Okay.	40:14
Chris Stewart	So we got all you, but I'll just put it down.	40:14
George Scarborough Jr.	Hmm-mm.	40:16
Chris Stewart	And then who comes next?	40:18
George Scarborough Jr.	Our Gertha. Gertha Lee Scarborough. Gertha Lee Scarborough.	40:19
Chris Stewart	G-E-R-T-H-I-E?	40:25
George Scarborough Jr.	G-E-R-T-H-A, I believe.	40:27
Chris Stewart	A?	40:29
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Yeah, right.	40:30
Chris Stewart	Okay. And how old?	40:35
George Scarborough Jr.	60?	40:40
George Scarborough Jr.	60.	40:41
Chris Stewart	Is this a woman?	40:44
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	40:45
Chris Stewart	And when was she born?	40:45
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, she's—	40:47
Chris Stewart	I mean where was she born? Same place?	40:48
George Scarborough Jr.	Bishopville.	40:48
Chris Stewart	Were all your brothers and sisters—	40:48
George Scarborough Jr.	Everybody—	40:48
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	40:48
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, everybody.	40:51
Chris Stewart	So we don't even have to go there.	40:52
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	40:52
Chris Stewart	Okay.	40:52
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. [indistinct 00:40:54] Lee County, Bishopville.	40:54
Chris Stewart	I'll stop asking you that one.	40:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	40:55
Chris Stewart	Okay. Who's next?	40:56
George Scarborough Jr.	Leroy Scarborough. That's the one that I said got—	41:00
Chris Stewart	Died?	41:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Died, yeah. Leroy Scarborough.	41:04
Chris Stewart	How old was he when he died? You said he was—	41:09
George Scarborough Jr.	He was around 13 or 14 years old. Somewhere around there. I don't know exactly, but it's close there.	41:13
George Scarborough Jr.	If he'd have been living, he would've been 58, I believe.	41:20
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I think about 58.	41:22
Chris Stewart	Okay. Who's next?	41:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Ada Bell.	41:35
Chris Stewart	A-D-A?	41:37
George Scarborough Jr.	A-D-A-I—Ada.	41:39
George Scarborough Jr.	Is it A-D-A-I-E?	41:42
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh, A-D-A?	41:44
George Scarborough Jr.	Ada.	41:45
Chris Stewart	Ada Bell.	41:48
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. A-D-I-A, I believe. A-D-I-A—I don't know. That's close enough.	41:50
Chris Stewart	And how old is she?	41:57
George Scarborough Jr.	Everybody's about two years apart, so—	42:04
Chris Stewart	Okay, so she's about 56.	42:07
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	42:07
Chris Stewart	Okay.	42:09
Chris Stewart	Who's next?	42:10
Chris Stewart	Big family. It's hard to keep track of. I can't keep track of my family. You're doing really good.	42:12
George Scarborough Jr.	James. James Scarborough.	42:16
Chris Stewart	About 54?	42:16
George Scarborough Jr.	54.	42:16
Chris Stewart	Okay.	42:16
George Scarborough Jr.	Essie May Scarborough. About 52.	42:24
Chris Stewart	Okay.	42:40
George Scarborough Jr.	Carol Lee Scarborough. About 50.	42:43
George Scarborough Jr.	And that's it. Ain't that eight?	42:50
Chris Stewart	You got it.	42:50
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay.	42:55
Chris Stewart	What about your children? What are your children's full names?	42:59
George Scarborough Jr.	Willis Scarborough.	43:04
Chris Stewart	And when was he born?	43:10
George Scarborough Jr.	He was in May, but I don't know what date.	43:12
Chris Stewart	How old is he?	43:16
George Scarborough Jr.	He born 1949.	43:17
Chris Stewart	Okay. May, 1949.	43:22
Chris Stewart	And he was born where?	43:22
George Scarborough Jr.	Bishopville.	43:32
Chris Stewart	Okay.	43:32
George Scarborough Jr.	All of my children's born down there.	43:32
Chris Stewart	And who's next?	43:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Georgie Scarborough. She's 42.	43:33
Chris Stewart	Do you know what month she was born in? Do you remember?	43:35
George Scarborough Jr.	The 1st of November.	43:49
Chris Stewart	November.	43:49
George Scarborough Jr.	November.	43:49
Chris Stewart	Okay.	43:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Rosa Scarborough.	43:55
Chris Stewart	Rosie?	43:56
George Scarborough Jr.	R-O-S-A.	43:57
Chris Stewart	Rosa.	43:59
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	44:00
Chris Stewart	Oh.	44:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Rosa Maria Scarborough. Just put M. Rosa M. Scarborough.	44:01
Chris Stewart	And when was she born?	44:09
George Scarborough Jr.	She's 40. Her birthday was the 1st of January.	44:11
Chris Stewart	Okay. What about the other two children that you were telling us about?	44:19
George Scarborough Jr.	Reginald. He's a Ruffin.	44:24
Chris Stewart	What's his last name?	44:28
George Scarborough Jr.	He's a Ruffin.	44:29
Chris Stewart	Ruffin.	44:33
George Scarborough Jr.	Hmm-mm.	44:33
George Scarborough Jr.	Reginald—	44:38
Chris Stewart	Reginald?	44:38
George Scarborough Jr.	Ruffin.	44:38
Chris Stewart	And he was born?	44:38
George Scarborough Jr.	In North Carolina. Or Lincoln Hospital, right here in Durham. In Durham.	44:41
Chris Stewart	And you said he's what, 30?	44:48
George Scarborough Jr.	He's 32.	44:49
Chris Stewart	32.	44:49
George Scarborough Jr.	Joanne Carpenter. Carpenter. Like Carpenter Motor Company?	44:55
Chris Stewart	Okay.	45:01
George Scarborough Jr.	You spell it like Carpenter Motor Company.	45:02
Chris Stewart	Okay.	45:04
Chris Stewart	And was she born here in Durham?	45:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. At Lincoln Hospital down there. It was Lincoln Hospital then, you know?	45:06
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	45:10
George Scarborough Jr.	You heard about the Lincoln Hospital?	45:10
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	45:12
George Scarborough Jr.	They tore that down and built Lincoln Health Center there.	45:12
Chris Stewart	Do you have any grandchildren?	45:15
George Scarborough Jr.	Yes. God.	45:16
Chris Stewart	The three here.	45:17
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah.	45:17
Chris Stewart	And there's a fourth.	45:17
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I got—Well, three—No, there's two over there.	45:21
Chris Stewart	Oh, there's two there. That's right.	45:24
George Scarborough Jr.	That's my daughter over there, you see, with her children.	45:25
Chris Stewart	Right.	45:27
George Scarborough Jr.	There's two there and one here.	45:28
George Scarborough Jr.	And—Let me see now.	45:34
George Scarborough Jr.	Joanne got two. Reginald got one.	45:42
Chris Stewart	Does Rosa have any kids?	45:55
George Scarborough Jr.	No, Rosa don't have any kids.	45:56
Chris Stewart	Okay.	45:58
George Scarborough Jr.	He's got two; that boy there and then he's got a girl too.	45:59
George Scarborough Jr.	So that's all.	46:07
Chris Stewart	So I count seven. I was keeping track.	46:08
George Scarborough Jr.	Hmm-mm.	46:13
Chris Stewart	So this is just one of his kids. He's got a little girl [indistinct 00:46:17]	46:15
George Scarborough Jr.	Yes. Right. Got another little girl as well.	46:16
Chris Stewart	Okay.	46:19
George Scarborough Jr.	Right.	46:20
Chris Stewart	You got a lot of grandchildren.	46:21
George Scarborough Jr.	Hmm-mm.	46:22
George Scarborough Jr.	I got some great-grand now.	46:22
Chris Stewart	Okay.	46:27
Chris Stewart	Now can you tell me—? You live—Now we're looking at where you've lived.	46:28
Chris Stewart	So the first place you lived was in Bishopville, right?	46:34
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right.	46:36
Chris Stewart	And you were about 21 or 22 when you said you left?	46:45
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Right around 21, 22 when I left Bishopville.	46:52
Chris Stewart	Born '31, so it was like '53 maybe?	46:56
George Scarborough Jr.	Probably there somewhere.	47:01
Chris Stewart	In the fifties?	47:05
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Right, right. Somewhere along there.	47:05
Chris Stewart	And then you moved here to the house on Enterprise Street with your brother?	47:11
George Scarborough Jr.	On Enterprise Street, yeah, with my brother.	47:14
George Scarborough Jr.	But I couldn't tell—Yeah.	47:16
Chris Stewart	I'm just going to put Enterprise Street.	47:18
George Scarborough Jr.	Okay. Enterprise Street.	47:19
Chris Stewart	How's that?	47:21
George Scarborough Jr.	That's fine.	47:21

George Scarborough Jr.	I moved him, and I stayed there about two months. Then, I went back and got my family, and my wife, and my baby daughter, and brought them. We moved to Fowler Avenue, Fowler.	0:01
Chris Stewart	Fowler?	0:16
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, Fowler Avenue.	0:18
Chris Stewart	How long did you stay there?	0:21
George Scarborough Jr.	About a year. About one year.	0:26
Chris Stewart	Then where'd you move to?	0:29
George Scarborough Jr.	Then, we moved back to Enterprise Street.	0:30
Chris Stewart	How long did you stay back when you were—	0:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Eight years, to Enterprise Street.	0:34
Chris Stewart	Then where?	0:45
George Scarborough Jr.	Dupree Street, right over here. Two blocks from this house.	0:46
Chris Stewart	How long did you stay there?	0:51
George Scarborough Jr.	12 years. Stayed at Dupree Street about 12 years.	0:52
Chris Stewart	Then where did you go?	1:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, me and my wife divorced over there.	1:02
Chris Stewart	Right there, yeah.	1:05
George Scarborough Jr.	We divorced over there on Dupree Street. When we divorced on Dupree Street, I start drifting around.	1:05
Chris Stewart	Was the next place you had this place?	1:17
George Scarborough Jr.	No.	1:20
Chris Stewart	Okay.	1:20
George Scarborough Jr.	No. When I left Dupree Street, I went back to Enterprise Street.	1:20
Chris Stewart	You had this thing about Enterprise Street.	1:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. I went back Enterprise Street, I stayed over there. I had a room over there with a girl, over there on Enterprise Street. I stayed there probably two years, I believe, around two years. I left there and went on to South Street. West to South Street, across from Enterprise street.	1:32
Chris Stewart	How long were you at South Street?	2:00
George Scarborough Jr.	Let me see, how long I was at South Street? Was it two years, or three? Two or three years on South Street, I believe it was. Then, I left there and went to Hillsborough.	2:03
Chris Stewart	When you got married?	2:20
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. I left there and I went to Hillsborough.	2:25
Chris Stewart	How long were you in Hillsborough?	2:36
George Scarborough Jr.	I expect it was somewhere around four years. I believe, it was somewhere around four. It might've been a little bit longer than that, but I'll say it was about four years in Hillsborough. It's not accurate, but something around four years.	2:38
Chris Stewart	And that's when you bought this house?	3:03
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. That's right.	3:09
Chris Stewart	Moline Street.	3:11
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. That's when I bought this house, and I've been here ever since. I hope I don't have to move anywhere.	3:12
Chris Stewart	It sounds like you put a lot of work into it. You don't want to.	3:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, I don't want to. And then too, I'll have it paid for. I'm through paying for it in October or November, one of those. I have to count and checkup on it. It'll be this year right here when I'll be through paying for the house.	3:37
Chris Stewart	Do you remember the name of the schools that you went to?	3:47
George Scarborough Jr.	I went to that church. I'm trying to—Gosh, it was so long. But that church, I don't remember the name of that church now. But there's two room school named St. James, number one. St. James. Is it James or Jane? St. James or Jane? I'm trying to—It was St. Jane or St. James. St. James. St. James, number one because it was a St. James number two on up the road from us.	3:56
Chris Stewart	And that was the one that people built after the church?	4:34
George Scarborough Jr.	Right.	4:36
Chris Stewart	Okay.	4:37
George Scarborough Jr.	Right, right, right.	4:37
Chris Stewart	St James. And that was in Lee County?	4:41
George Scarborough Jr.	In Lee County.	4:45
Chris Stewart	And that was the one that you went through the eighth grade?	4:54
George Scarborough Jr.	Right.	4:56
Chris Stewart	How old were you when you stopped going to school? Do you remember?	4:57
George Scarborough Jr.	I don't remember, but I got married out of school.	5:00
Chris Stewart	You got married right when you were done with school?	5:05
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. But you see, just like I said, it took us so long to finish a grade because we had to work in the field.	5:07
Chris Stewart	Right.	5:13
George Scarborough Jr.	You might stay in a grade two, three years. Somebody stay in there for four years. I heard somebody been in one grade four years.	5:15
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	5:22
George Scarborough Jr.	So age didn't say when you was supposed to finish a grade or we supposed to be in this grade or that grade. At your age that didn't have anything to do with it.	5:22
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	5:32
George Scarborough Jr.	It's just when you finish the grade, that's what it was. Now, the age wasn't nothing, didn't have anything to do with it. So I have a great-grand—I have 1, 2, 3, I believes three great-grand, but I can't—	5:33
Chris Stewart	Need to get that down.	5:53
George Scarborough Jr.	Gosh, I can't remember their names now. Gosh, I can't remember them great-grand names. But I got three great-grand. One of them six years old.	5:57
Chris Stewart	Wow.	6:09
George Scarborough Jr.	One is six years old.	6:13
Chris Stewart	Okay, let's go through the jobs one more time. Okay. And you're retired now, but if you could list your most important jobs.	6:15
Chris Stewart	Okay. So now we're talking about jobs. So what we'll do is we'll put down the most important jobs, the ones that you think are most important. So this is what you will want on here.	6:29
George Scarborough Jr.	At Duke University.	6:38
Chris Stewart	Okay.	6:39
George Scarborough Jr.	Duke University.	6:40
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay. Duke. And what was your job title?	6:42
George Scarborough Jr.	Housekeeping.	6:47
Chris Stewart	That is in Durham. And you worked there for 20 years?	6:56
George Scarborough Jr.	20 years. Duke University.	7:02
Chris Stewart	So that would be 1972 to 1992.	7:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Right. Perkins Library. Well, this is at Duke University, you don't have to put Perkins library.	7:10
Chris Stewart	You were Perkins Library?	7:13
George Scarborough Jr.	Working Perkins Library 20 years.	7:15
Chris Stewart	We probably saw you.	7:16
George Scarborough Jr.	Probably, did. I was down front there. If you see anybody down front there with that Duke uniform on and that patch on the shoulder. They got the chapel on my patch up here. They used to have it up here on the other uniform, but they move it on the sleeve. Used to have it up here and on the sleeve. But this uniform that we had last, we didn't put it up here, it's on the sleeve. But the chapel, got the chapel on that.	7:18
Chris Stewart	Okay. So what was the next most important job before this one? Before you took the job at Duke?	7:48
George Scarborough Jr.	Colonial Flooring and Acoustical Company truck driver. I enjoyed driving, truck driving. I loved to drive. I was a much younger man and I loved to drive. I'll be going down the highway grinning and going on because I loved driving.	7:57
Chris Stewart	Colonial Flooring and—	8:14
George Scarborough Jr.	Acoustical Company. Acoustic, Acoustic. That's Durham. I loved that job too because I was a much younger man and driving was definitely right down my line.	8:16
Chris Stewart	And when were you there?	8:30
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh—	8:32
Chris Stewart	How about how old were you?	8:33
George Scarborough Jr.	Gosh—Now, that's something.	8:39
Chris Stewart	You were a much younger man.	8:41
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Much younger man. I was a—	8:42
Chris Stewart	How old were your children at that time? Were they small?	8:49
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Let me see. Now, when I stopped drinking, that was about 30 years ago.	9:13
Chris Stewart	30 years ago?	9:15
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, 30 years ago when I was there.	9:16
Chris Stewart	So around 62?	9:19
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, something like that.	9:21
Chris Stewart	And how long did you work there about? Did you work there a long time?	9:22
George Scarborough Jr.	About five years.	9:28
Chris Stewart	Oh, so that's—	9:28
George Scarborough Jr.	Somewhere around five years. Yeah, around five years. Something like that.	9:32
Chris Stewart	Okay. We're going back further now, if you can remember anything back further. What was the next most important job for you?	9:38
George Scarborough Jr.	Driving truck for Thomason Company.	9:48
Chris Stewart	You like driving, huh?	9:53
George Scarborough Jr.	Oh yeah. I love driving Thomason company.	9:55
Chris Stewart	Okay.	9:59
George Scarborough Jr.	That was plumbing and heating company. Thomason Plumbing and Heating Company.	10:00
Chris Stewart	And that was here in Durham?	10:05
George Scarborough Jr.	Right here in Durham. I loved that too. Travel and your on your own.	10:07
Chris Stewart	Did you do that right before you did this, the Colonial Flooring and Acoustical Company? Did you do something in between?	10:12
George Scarborough Jr.	I'm trying to think. But the in between, I did something in between a while, but I'm trying to think of what did I do in between? Because that's when I was drinking. And Colonial Flooring, while I liked that job, you drank on the job and then nobody didn't say nothing to you. Long as you were able to go down the road or as—	10:21
Chris Stewart	As long as you could drive between the white lines.	10:46
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. Right. So Scarborough was here today and said he was high as a Georgia Pine and the man just laughed. So he didn't hit nobody, no. He didn't hit nobody. Well, he didn't hit nobody. Well, he back here and he didn't hit nobody. He was at home. And so, I'm trying to think. Where did I work at? In between Colonial Flooring Acoustical Company, and Thomason Company? I can't remember. But I believe it was at a furniture store.	10:47
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay. You came here in the early fifties. Were you working at the Thomason Plumbing and Heating in the fifties probably?	11:27
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no, no. It was later on in the fifties at Thompson Plumbing Heating Company.	11:39
Chris Stewart	It's still in the fifties, but later on late fifties? 58, 59 maybe? Or was it in the sixties?	11:43
George Scarborough Jr.	It was in the sixties.	11:49
Chris Stewart	Okay.	11:49
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, it was in the sixties, I believe. It was in the sixties. In the sixties.	11:50
Chris Stewart	Are there any other jobs that you want me to put down on here?	11:57
George Scarborough Jr.	No, that would be enough right there.	12:00
Chris Stewart	Okay. Well, how about if I put down that you worked at the farm?	12:03
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. That would be fine.	12:05
Chris Stewart	In Bishop, is that—	12:05
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. That's the first job. Working on the farm in Bishopville. Used to drive—First, I plowed the mule and after the tractor come out, then I started driving the tractor. Oh, you couldn't tell me nothing. I was sitting up there riding and driving that tractor. You couldn't pull me off. I used to eat dinner up there sometimes because see in the country, people called breakfast, dinner, and supper. But in the city called breakfast, lunch, and dinner.	12:05
Chris Stewart	Right.	12:36
George Scarborough Jr.	But people used to work in the field. Mom and them used to go home at a certain time. Daddy used to look up at the sun and say, "Go home now and fix dinner." She would come home and fix dinner. So country people had breakfast, dinner, and supper.	12:38
Chris Stewart	Right. I see—	12:49
George Scarborough Jr.	City people had breakfast, lunch, and dinner.	12:52
Chris Stewart	Right. That's how I was taught. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.	12:54
George Scarborough Jr.	But I was taught breakfast, dinner, and supper. But I changed that after I moved to Durham.	13:00
Chris Stewart	In the city?	13:04
George Scarborough Jr.	In the city. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner because you don't hear them—Every once in a while, somebody from the country work out—Got some people from Roxboro and everybody say, "Use the word dinner." People from the country, older people still use dinner. Remember, when they said dinner? They mean at noon now.	13:05
Chris Stewart	At lunchtime.	13:31
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, lunchtime.	13:32
Chris Stewart	Lunchtime.	13:32
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Yeah, lunchtime. Yeah. Yeah.	13:33
Chris Stewart	So now you told me that you were really involved in, well that you did some stuff over in your church. It sounded like you had specific jobs in your church? You're on some board, did you say?	13:35
George Scarborough Jr.	I serve on the board of Trustee. I serve on the board of trustee in the committee finance.	13:48
Chris Stewart	And this is, what's the name of the church?	13:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Lincoln Memorial Baptist Church. Lincoln Memorial. Lincoln Memorial Baptist Church, South Roxboro Street.	13:57
Chris Stewart	Are there any other kinds of offices like that, that you've held in your lifetime?	14:08
George Scarborough Jr.	No. No, no, no, no, no.	14:17
Chris Stewart	Okay. So do you consider yourself, have you always considered yourself, to be a Baptist?	14:20
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. All my people as far as mom and dad, as far as I can remember, everybody was Baptist. Because mom and dad belongs to the same church. And we buried both of them side by side. Because when mama died, we saved the space there for dad. And so the side by side and we got the headstone there too and all. So they're right side by side there.	14:27
Chris Stewart	Have you always-	14:58
George Scarborough Jr.	We have a family grave in South Carolina, but we don't see the Scarborough families from White. All Scarborough originally from a White family.	14:58
Chris Stewart	Oh, really?	15:11
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. My grandfather's father was a White man.	15:12
Chris Stewart	Really?	15:14
George Scarborough Jr.	My grandfather's father was a White man. And so they have a cemetery, a Scarborough cemetery down there White. And if you was a Scarborough, you could be buried in a White cemetery, if you were Black or White. But you had to be a Scarborough. So all Scarborough is from, the name is from White.	15:15
Chris Stewart	Do you know if there are any Black folks buried in that cemetery?	15:36
George Scarborough Jr.	I don't know. But you see the family church is not too far from that Scarborough Cemetery. So all my family is buried at the church, the St. Mark, the church cemetery. And everybody wanted to be buried there too.	15:40
Chris Stewart	Right.	15:57
George Scarborough Jr.	Because if you wasn't a Scarborough then you couldn't be buried in that cemetery.	15:59
Chris Stewart	Right.	16:04
George Scarborough Jr.	And then I got Josey, you know, and all my mama's side and all. And everybody want to be buried. And just like when I pass, I want people to go back. My children today wants to go back. And my brother and all of us want to go back to the church cemetery. Because all our old people, our sisters' our brother there, mother, and father, uncle, and aunt there. So that's where I would like to go back. And that's where I want to go back to. Yeah.	16:04
Chris Stewart	Is this the only church that you've belonged to or have you belonged to other Baptist churches?	16:48
George Scarborough Jr.	I belonged to Mount Vernon Baptist Church. Y'all passed that one coming up from, the big church on the left that's Mount Vernon.	16:55
Chris Stewart	Any other ones that you?	17:05
George Scarborough Jr.	No, no. There was only two in Durham that I joined. Mount Vernon there and I pulled away from there because I enjoy a smaller church. Because you see, you got a lot of big shots there. And if I was there, I would've never reached the board of trustee because there you have to be a educated person to hold a position in church. You got to be—And so you got a principal that Mark Vernon, and big property owners, and these upper class people. But my pastor said everybody's somebody here regardless to where you work at and what you say. If you in an attic or Beverly Hills, he said everybody's somebody at this church. They don't care who you are, or where you work at, or what kind of position you hold. Say everybody is somebody. So just like when we are raw counting the money.	17:06
George Scarborough Jr.	I said, "Well, I can count all the money and get it here, but I can't use the calculator." "Don't worry about that. We'll do it." So we got people only get on the calculator.	18:16
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	18:26
George Scarborough Jr.	So we count the money in our raw, I got a sheet to put on. I do the mission and I put on the sheet how many quarters, how many halves, 50 cents, and how many ones, and fives, and twenties, and all that you see. And I'll put all that down and then I'll tell them what I got near figured up and all. And then I'll put the figure down on these days. And so they get on the calculator. I told them that I'll do what I can do. They said, "Well, that's all we require you to do. What you can do. What you can do. That's what we require you to do. You can't do no more than what you tried to do."	18:27
George Scarborough Jr.	I said, "Sir, that's all right." So everybody worked together and nobody never said anything about, "You mean to tell me you can't do the calculator work?" Nobody ever say anything about that, you see. That don't ever come up because they know what you can do, and how far school, and all that you can't do with so much. So they got people do the bookwork, and on the calculator, and this, and that, and the other. They got people to do it.	19:05
Chris Stewart	Everybody has a job to do.	19:31
George Scarborough Jr.	Right.	19:31
Chris Stewart	Everybody can participate and do something.	19:31
George Scarborough Jr.	Right. And so I do what I can do. Such as count their money and put it down on the sheets. You see?	19:37
Chris Stewart	Right.	19:41
George Scarborough Jr.	The mission, have a sheet for the mission. The general for Sunday school and the central offering. And we have a scholarship at our church. Everybody give up money for scholarships. So the ones that's in college that's trying to make it, then they gets a check twice a year for help in college.	19:42
Chris Stewart	So you actually might—	20:14
George Scarborough Jr.	That might not be a whole lot, but still they divided with the ones in our school. I mean, the ones in our church that's in college. They divide up the money there. So I pledged money for the Jimmy Gray scholarship. They call it Jimmy Gray Scholarship. It's the coach that got killed at Durham High here a good while ago. The coach got killed at Durham High up there. And he belonged to our church. He was on the trustee board.	20:16
Chris Stewart	How did he get killed?	20:46
George Scarborough Jr.	In a car wreck. He was coming from somewhere. And a farmer had a trailer behind his truck, and it got a loose from his truck, and went across the road, and hit him head on, and killed him. And his wife had—	20:47
Chris Stewart	So you named a scholarship after him?	21:04
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, after him because he's the one who started it.	21:09
Chris Stewart	That's great.	21:10
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah. Jimmy Gray Scholarship because I pledge money for the scholarship because I know what it's for.	21:12
Chris Stewart	Right.	21:19
George Scarborough Jr.	You see, I know what it's for and I know the purpose it serves and everything. Just like the mission that I pledge money to, the mission because that's helped the less fortunate people. They people that ain't got food, or sometimes somebody don't have money enough to pay the rent, or something like that behind on their rent. Or they go in the mission and help that person out.	21:19
Chris Stewart	Right.	21:41
George Scarborough Jr.	So I pledged money for the mission and then I pay my offering to. My tithe, my regular tithe. So I spent my regular tithe and all, paid my regular tithes, and I paid a mission money for mission, and the Jimmy Gray Scholarship.	21:42
George Scarborough Jr.	Because I know that just like you are picking a student that you chose one to help, but still you don't go by names. You just pledge the money because you see if you do that, I might be able to pay more for this person and you for that person. Then, that will cause something too. I got me a check for $1000 from Mr. Scarborough. I didn't get but $500, I didn't give but $200. I didn't get—That wouldn't be right. So when they divided up equal of the money that been saved up, then they give each one a certain amount.	22:00
Chris Stewart	Mr. Scarborough, do you belong to any other organizations besides your church?	22:42
George Scarborough Jr.	No. No, not all. No, no other.	22:48
Chris Stewart	This is kind of a weird question, but I'm going to ask you anyway.	22:55
George Scarborough Jr.	Go ahead.	22:57
Chris Stewart	(laughs) Do you have any favorite sayings, or a motto, or something that you'd like us to put in this?	22:58
George Scarborough Jr.	What you say now?	23:10
Chris Stewart	Well, like a favorite saying. Something that you sort of live your life by or something like that.	23:12
George Scarborough Jr.	(sighs) I don't know why y'all—	23:25
George Scarborough Jr.	Well, I had a rough life for sure. I lived a rough life. I know that, but I don't know. Something like what you would suggest that I'll put down there.	23:26
Chris Stewart	What would I suggest?	23:56
George Scarborough Jr.	Yeah, something like you two?	23:59
Kara Miles	You don't have to put anything in there.	24:02
Chris Stewart	No. Yeah. You don't have to put anything down there if you don't want to.	24:04
George Scarborough Jr.	No, we won't put—	24:05
Chris Stewart	Okay.	24:07
George Scarborough Jr.	We won't put anything.	24:07
Chris Stewart	I think that that's it for this. This a is a nasty sheet. I'm sorry. We know it's nasty.	24:08

George Scarborough	(singing and playing guitar version of "Oh Baby, You Don't Have To Go") Oh baby, you don't have to go.	0:00
George Scarborough	Oh baby, you don't have to go. I'm going to find my baby, down the road I go.	0:00
George Scarborough	Well, I give you all my money, let you go downtown.	0:00
George Scarborough	Get back in the evening, call me all kind of clown.	0:00
George Scarborough	Oh baby, honey, what's wrong with you.	0:00
George Scarborough	You don't sing the blues now, girl, like you used to do.	0:00
George Scarborough	(singing and playing guitar version of "Got My Mojo Working.") I'm going to Louisiana, Get me a mojo hand.	0:00
George Scarborough	I'm going to Louisiana, Get me a mojo hand.	0:00
George Scarborough	I'm'a a fix my woman so she can't have another man.	0:00
George Scarborough	I'm leaving in the morning, I'm leaving here alone.	0:00
George Scarborough	I'm leaving in the morning, I'm leaving here alone. I'm'a get me a mojo hand and I'm going to bring it back home.	0:00
George Scarborough	Going to Louisiana, Get me a mojo hand, I'm'a a fix my woman so she can't have another man.	0:00
George Scarborough	(singing and playing guitar portion of "Four Women in my Life" by John Lee Hooker)	0:00
George Scarborough	Yes, I never did love but four women in my life,	0:00
George Scarborough	I never did love but four women in my life, that's my mama and my sister, sweetheart and my wine.	0:00
George Scarborough	(playing guitar)	0:00
George Scarborough	(singing and playing guitar version of "Someday Baby" by Lightnin' Hopkins)	0:00
George Scarborough	It hurt me so bad until I had to cry, but one day baby you not going to worry my life anymore.	0:00
George Scarborough	You need to come running and fall on across my bed, drinking that old moonshine whiskey, talking all out your head, someday baby, ain't going to worry my life no more. (playing guitar)	0:00
George Scarborough	(singing and playing version of "Come on Down to my House Mama,"/ "Log Cabin Blues"/many other titles)	0:00
George Scarborough	Well, come on down to my house, baby,	0:00
George Scarborough	Nobody home but me.	0:00
George Scarborough	We can fry some meat, bake some bread,	0:00
George Scarborough	If you get sleepy, there's a great big bed.	0:00
George Scarborough	Come on down to my house, baby,	0:00
George Scarborough	Nobody home but me.	0:00
George Scarborough	(playing guitar)	0:00
George Scarborough	Well, come on down to my house, baby,	0:00
George Scarborough	Nobody home but me.	0:00
George Scarborough	Ash to ash, dust to dust, show me a woman that a man can trust,	0:00
George Scarborough	Come on down to my house, baby, nobody home but me.	0:00
George Scarborough	Come on down to my house, baby, nobody home but me.	0:00
George Scarborough	Said, the rooster chew tobacco, the hen dip snuff, the baby chicken eating corn and just strutting his stuff,	0:00
George Scarborough	Come on down to my house, baby, nobody home but me.	0:00
George Scarborough	(applause)	0:00
Chris Stewart	So now you play a lot of different kinds of blues. I mean, because you were playing some Delta blues there and some quicker picking blues.	0:00
George Scarborough	(playing guitar)	8:50
George Scarborough	Jimmy Reed, that was Oh Baby, You Don't Have To Go.	8:50
Chris Stewart	Right.	8:52
George Scarborough	Next one I played, I believe that was Muddy Waters, but, "I'm going to Louisiana get me a mojo hand." I played, gosh, I just remember. "I never did love but—"	8:53
Chris Stewart	Four women.	9:16
George Scarborough	"—four women in my life. That was my momma and sister, sweetheart and my wife." That's four, right?	9:17
Chris Stewart	Mm-hmm.	9:22
George Scarborough	That was Lightnin' Hopkins. And the next one, what was it? The next one was Lightnin' Hopkins about it, "Hey Lordy Lord."	9:23
Chris Stewart	Oh, right.	9:39
George Scarborough	"It hurt me so bad until I had to cry, but one day baby you not going to worry my life anymore. You need to come on and fall on across my bed, drinking that old whiskey, talking all out your head," and all that. That was Lightnin' Hopkins. And Blind Boy Fuller there, the song that I played, Step It Up and Go. That was Step It Up and Go, that's the late Blind Boy Fuller. He died about 40 years ago.	9:40
Chris Stewart	Yeah, along time ago.	10:02
George Scarborough	Yeah, about 40, somewhere around 40 years ago. That was the late Blind Boy Fuller.	10:03
Chris Stewart	So how did you learn these songs, did you listen to records?	10:11
George Scarborough	Listened to records. Listened to records. Yeah, listened to the records. You see, they had all those records and so I listened to the records, and I learned the songs from there, from the records.	10:13
Chris Stewart	Just practice from the records?	10:28
George Scarborough	Practicing from the record.	10:29
Chris Stewart	That's why you got that whole collection.	10:32
George Scarborough	Right, right, right, right, that's why I got that whole collection around there, because I listen to them and I play them time after time. I listen to it and I would do it all you know?	10:33
Chris Stewart	Mm-hmm.	10:43
George Scarborough	And that's the way—And this is Honky Tonk by Bill Doggett. Turn it on. Wait a minute. Wait just a minute. Wait just a minute.	10:44
George Scarborough	(playing guitar)	10:49
George Scarborough	Let's boogie. Boogie Terry. I was 10-years-old when I started doing the boogie. Momma told me I was too young of mind, she was going to have a talk with my father. I heard mom and dad talking one night, daddy told momma, said, "Let that boy do the boogie." Said, "It's in him and it's got to come out of him." Dad said, "Boogie woogie son and do it right. If it trips you on out—" I was so glad I was like, "Oh, Lord, let's party." Put my legs off and started to enjoy it. Boogie shoes!	10:49
Chris Stewart	That's the kind that you play when you're going out to—	14:05
George Scarborough	Right.	14:07
Chris Stewart	—a joint, right?	14:07
George Scarborough	Right. Right.	14:07
Chris Stewart	That gets them dancing, right?	14:07
George Scarborough	Right. Right. I got some more that I'll play to you and all like that.	14:07
Chris Stewart	At one of the parties that you go to.	14:15
George Scarborough	One of the parties I go to, yeah.	14:17
Chris Stewart	So now, are you still playing at local—	14:18
George Scarborough	Local parties. Local parties when I have the time, which now I'm going to take the time out play at some. Since I retired I played at three, but I'm going to play. It's a guy that called—It's a student called me in Chapel Hill that he wanted me to play for him, but he waited until I got busy out there cutting wood out there, cleaning up there at the cemetery, so I had to postpone it.	14:21
Chris Stewart	What did he want you to play for?	14:43
George Scarborough	A birthday party.	14:43
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	14:43
George Scarborough	A birthday party.	14:43
Chris Stewart	So do you just go by yourself or do you have people—	14:44
George Scarborough	Right, I go by myself.	14:55
Chris Stewart	Okay.	14:57
George Scarborough	Go by myself. I go by myself.	14:57
Chris Stewart	Kara, did you have some ques—	14:59

Item Info

Title:

George Scarborough, Jr. interview recording, 1993 May 27

Date:

May 27, 1993

Creator:

Scarborough, George, Jr.

Contributor:

Description:

Name: George Jr. Scarborough; Date of birth: 1931-05-22; Place of birth: Bishopville, SC; Occupation(s): teamster; housekeeping; Residence: Durham, NC
Informant ID: 328; Interviewed by: Chris Stewart and Kara Miles.

Occupation:

Location:

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 341
97e46232-510f-4aee-ba24-92b8a6cb0c33
behindtheveil
btvnc03034
ark:/87924/r42v2hr04
23226870-8002-4607-a480-71952c57efb8

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George Scarborough, Jr. interview recording, 1993 May 27

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George Scarborough, Jr. interview recording, 1993 May 27

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