Emily McCandies interview recording, 1994 June 08

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Kate Ellis	Oh, I think I need to-	0:03
	This is Kate Ellis	0:07
	interviewing Emily Willette McCandies	0:08
	from Hillsborough, North Carolina	0:11
	on June 8th, 1994	0:16
	at about 2:30 PM.	0:20
	When did you first come to this area, Hillsborough?	0:30
-	[Emily Willette McCandies] I was about seven years old.	0:36
	We moved down from Alamance County	0:41
	and this is where I first started the school.	0:47
-	Who did you come down with?	0:52
-	I came down with my mother's brother and his wife.	0:56
	They raised me from birth.	1:02
	So I've been with them ever since.	1:06
-	Your mother's brother. So your uncle?	1:09
-	Right.	1:12
-	Are they kind of like parents to you? I mean.	1:13
-	Right.	1:15
-	Why did they-	1:18
	Do you know why they raised you?	1:20
-	My parents died when I was small.	1:22
-	Oh.	1:25
	How did they pass?	1:27
-	I don't really know what was wrong with my daddy,	1:31
	but my mother died from tuberculosis.	1:35
-	Oh, wow. And so they took care of you.	1:38
	And so did you move around the time that your parents died	1:41
	or had you already been living with your-?	1:48
-	I had already been living with them.	1:54
-	Okay.	1:57
-	Because they were sickly.
	And so my mother wanted her brother to have me.	2:00
	And my mother's cousin	2:08
	raised my sister.	2:13
-	Your mother's cousin. Oh, I see.	2:16
	So is your sister older or younger?	2:18
-	Younger.	2:20
-	Oh, okay.
-	And I have two brothers and they stayed with my daddy,	2:23
	which they were older.	2:28
-	Oh, I see. How much?	2:30
	So were they a lot older?	2:31
-	A little older.	2:35
	They were old enough to take care of themselves.	2:36
-	When he passed?	2:38
-	Right.
-	I see.	2:41
	So who is still around here?	2:42
	I mean, of your-	2:47
	So you have two brothers and a sister and you.	2:48
-	I have one brother living.	2:52
-	Oh.	2:54
-	And one sister.
-	Okay.	2:56
	Did the aunt and uncle who raised you,	2:59
	who are like your parents,	3:01
	did they also have children of their own	3:03
	that they had together?	3:06
-	Yes, they had seven.	3:08
-	So were you raised in that whole family?	3:11
-	Yes.	3:14
-	So why did they come, why did you all move here?	3:15
-	My daddy-	3:19
	My uncle, which is my daddy.	3:22
-	Right. Yeah, okay.	3:23
-	He bought a farm here in Hillsborough.	3:24
-	I see.	3:28
	So he was able-	3:29
	And so who worked on that farm?	3:31
-	My dad and his wife and their children.	3:38
	Then when I grew up, I helped some.	3:42
-	What kind of vegetables were grown on the farm?	3:45
-	Tomatoes, corn, beans.	3:50
-	So what would they do with that?	3:56
	Like, what was a-	4:01
	What was the general-	4:03
	Let's see now.	4:04
	Let me get something straight before I actually even go on.	4:05
	When were you born?	4:07
-	I was born 1936.	4:09
-	Okay. I'm just going to write that down.	4:11
	Oh I see, you're like 58.	4:18
-	Right.	4:20
-	Yeah. Okay.
-	I just had a birthday.	4:21
-	You did?	4:23
-	In April.
-	Oh. Great.	4:24
	So this was when you moved down here,	4:28
	that was, I guess in the early 1940s	4:31
	when you came down here?	4:33
-	I think it was 1941.	4:36
-	Okay.	4:38
	So that was, I guess, the start of the war,	4:39
	around the start of the war.	4:42
-	Yes. Think so.	4:43
-	Yeah. And so you came down here with the whole family	4:46
	because he was able to buy a farm here.	4:50
-	Right.	4:53
-	How far-?	4:54
	You told me before,	4:55
	what was the name of the county that you came from?	4:56
-	Alamance County, but I was born in Orange County.	4:59
-	Which is, okay.	5:06
-	Place called Cedar Grove.	5:09
-	That's the place where you were born?	5:14
-	Right.	5:16
-	Was that at home or was that in a hospital-?	5:17
-	No, it was a community.	5:19
-	Oh, I see.	5:21
	So I'm just wondering, and so then when you came down here,	5:28
	and you're about six years old when you came down here.	5:32
	And then they put you in school here?	5:34
-	Yes.	5:36
-	What do you remember about your school?	5:37
-	It was fun.	5:39
	We went to a little country school with one classroom.	5:42
	I think it was like from first grade to	5:50
	seventh grade,	5:54
	but I only went there for two years, first and second grade.	5:58
	And then I was transferred to Hillsborough.	6:03
-	Hillsborough-?	6:08
-	To Central.	6:09
-	And what was that like?	6:13
-	It was a large school from first grade to 12.	6:15
-	Oh. Did you go all the way through there?	6:19
-	Yes I did.	6:21
-	I see.
	So you've been here-	6:23
	It sounds like you've been here all your life.	6:25
-	Yes.	6:27
-	Okay. Wow.
	So what was the population of the students like	6:29
	at Hillsborough Central?	6:33
	I mean, was it segregated or, I mean assuming-	6:35
-	Yeah, it was segregated.	6:38
-	Yeah.
	So was this the Black school?	6:40
-	Black school.	6:45
-	The Hillsborough, okay.
	Can you tell me about the population in this area	6:48
	at the time when you moved here?	6:51
-	It was small.	6:54
	I can't remember the figures, but it was small.	6:56
	The population was real small here then.	6:59
-	Let's try something.	7:02
	[INTERRUPTION]	7:03
Ellis	Okay, go ahead.	7:04
McCandies	It was like	7:05
	you knew everybody that was in Hillsborough.	7:07
-	So everybody knew you and was aware of what you were doing	7:11
	and-	7:15
-	Yes.
-	Wow.	7:17
	So what do you remember about going to your,	7:17
	was there another White school nearby?	7:21
-	Yes, it was another White school	7:23
	close to Central,	7:27
	which was Hillsborough High at the time.	7:30
	And then years later after they began building new schools,	7:36
	the old White school	7:41
	was named Grady Brown	7:45
	after the principal.	7:48
-	And what about your school?	7:52
-	And my school was burned down.	7:53
-	It was burned down?	7:56
-	Yes, in the-	7:57
	Fifties, late fifties.	8:01
	And then when they built back,	8:04
	they named it A L Stanback after the principal.	8:07
-	Stanback?	8:13
-	And it's an elementary school now.	8:16
-	So what about the high school part?	8:18
-	They built a new high school after integration.	8:21
-	Oh, I see.	8:25
	And is that-?	8:27
-	Orange High School.	8:28
-	Orange High School.
	Is that now an integrated high school?	8:35
-	Right.	8:36
-	Okay.	8:39
	How did the school burn down?	8:41
-	Probably from the heating system.	8:45
-	I see. So it caught fire?	8:48
-	Right.	8:49
-	So, okay.	8:50
	And you obviously you were out of school.	8:51
-	Because it was a real old school, but it was real nice.	8:53
-	What do you mean it was real nice?	8:58
-	The structure on it had been kept nicely.	9:02
-	So it was well- I see.	9:06
	But it was just old?	9:09
-	Right.
-	I see. Huh.	9:10
	So what do you remember from those-	9:16
	Well, let me put it this way.	9:21
	Do you remember seeing White students?	9:23
	I mean, I don't know how close the schools were together,	9:24
	but did you pass each other much?	9:27
	Was there ever periods of interaction or-	9:33
-	No. Not then.	9:37
	Sometime we would leave school, come into town for something	9:41
	and we would walk past the White school,	9:45
	but never had any problems.	9:50
-	Was it sort of that you kept with your group	9:55
	and they kept with their group?	9:58
-	Yes.	10:00
-	And people really didn't kind of cross that line?	10:01
-	No.	10:05
	And also basketball season,	10:07
	the Black school used the White gym	10:13
	and everything went along smooth.	10:18
-	Was there a particular place	10:21
	where they needed to enter the gym?	10:23
	I mean was there-	10:25
	What am I trying to say?	10:28
	Were there any kind of rules about how people entered or?	10:31
-	No.	10:36
-	So what else do you remember about being in high school	10:42
	or even in grammar school and what that was like?	10:47
-	Well, at that time, it wasn't too much really happening.	10:55
	Everybody got along real good.	11:07
-	Really? You mean Whites and Black?	11:09
-	Right.	11:10
-	Uh-huh. Wow.
	Well, when you say got along really good-	11:15
-	You know, the Blacks didn't bother the White students	11:18
	and the Whites didn't bother the Black.	11:21
-	Do you remember, was there a time when,	11:25
	that you remember ever	11:28
	learning that,	11:31
	that you were to stay apart?	11:34
-	No.	11:40
	I never had that feeling	11:42
	because the community that I grew up in	11:44
	after we moved to Hillsborough,	11:48
	is a White community	11:52
	and the only children I had to play with was White children.	11:56
-	Oh, when you were growing up?	12:00
-	Right.	12:01
-	Like in the farm area where your daddy bought the farm.	12:02
-	Right.	12:05
	We were the only Black people out there.	12:07
-	Wow.	12:10
-	And still is.
-	Really?	12:12
	How did they respond to you when you moved in?	12:13
	Were they welcoming or were they standoffish or?	12:18
-	No, they didn't standoff.	12:21
	They called my mother and daddy, aunt and uncle.	12:23
	They would spend the night with me, the children,	12:30
	and I'd go spend the night with them.	12:33
	We played together every day.	12:36
-	Are you still friends with them?	12:39
-	Right.	12:40
-	Oh.
	Do they still live around here or?	12:42
-	Some of them.	12:44
-	So your father obviously was farming.	12:48
-	Right.	12:51
-	Were they also farmers? What were they doing nearby?	12:52
-	They were farmers too.	12:56
-	I see.	12:58
	So did the families ever help each other out on the farm?	13:01
-	Yes.	13:06
-	Was there a lot of collective work that was done together?	13:07
-	Right.	13:10
-	How did that work?	13:11
-	We would work together.
	One farmer would come and help my daddy	13:15
	and then he would go and help them taking in tobacco.	13:19
	They would help each other.	13:27
-	During the-	13:30
-	Yeah, they had tobacco during that season.	13:31
-	So you also grew tobacco on your farm?	13:36
-	Right. Tobacco and corn.	13:39
-	Is that farm still standing?	13:42
-	Yes.	13:45
	Some of my daddy's farm has been sold	13:47
	and they are both deceased now.	13:51
	And I've had my home built on some of the land.	13:56
-	Oh, I see.	14:00
	Oh, that's nice.	14:02
	What about other brothers and sisters?	14:03
	Have they also stayed in that area?	14:05
-	No.	14:08
-	Where are they all?	14:09
-	The one that I call my sister,	14:12
	which is my uncle's daughter,	14:16
	I call him daddy.	14:20
-	Uh-huh.
-	Well, they had one girl and she got married	14:22
	and moved into Durham County.	14:28
	So her part of land, she sold it.	14:32
-	Oh, so you all inherited land together?	14:34
-	Right.	14:39
-	And divided it up?
-	Right.	14:40
-	I see.
	And so you've kept your part of the land?	14:41
-	Yeah, I kept mine.	14:43
-	And that's where your house is.	14:44
-	Right.	14:45
-	And other brothers and sisters kept part of the land or-?	14:46
-	Two of the brothers kept their land.	14:49
-	When was this land, when did that happen?	14:54
	That they passed and you inherited?	14:58
-	My daddy, which is my uncle.	15:04
-	Right. No, when you refer to your daddy,	15:07
	I'll know that it's your-	15:09
-	Right.	15:09
-	Okay.	15:10
-	He passed away in 1983.	15:12
-	And so that's when-	15:16
-	And his wife passed away in 1985.	15:18
	And I had my home built in 1974.	15:23
-	Oh, I see.	15:28
	Okay, so you've been there-	15:29
-	So I've been there ever since.	15:31
-	I see.	15:32
	Do you call your aunt, your uncle's wife,	15:34
	do you call her your mother?	15:39
-	Right. Right.	15:40
-	Yeah.
	Just making sure.	15:42
	So can you tell me what your life was like growing up?	15:49
	You said that you worked on the farm and you went to school.	15:53
	What-?	15:55
-	It was good.	15:56
	I didn't do too much work in tobacco.	15:58
-	You didn't?	16:01
-	I was out there, but I didn't do no hard work.	16:03
-	Who did the hard work?	16:06
-	My mom and daddy.	16:08
-	The two of them really.
-	Right, and their children,	16:11
	because I was the youngest one there.	16:14
-	Oh.	16:16
-	So I didn't have to work hard.	16:17
-	But the other, their kids or your,	16:20
	do you call them your brothers and sisters?	16:24
-	Yes.	16:25
-	But they did.
-	They did.	16:27
-	Did they ever resent you for that?	16:28
	Did they ever ask why they had to do all this hard work	16:29
	while you didn't?	16:33
-	But their youngest son did. I think he was jealous.	16:34
-	Oh, really?	16:37
	But you were still younger than their youngest son?	16:38
-	Right.	16:40
-	Did you all go to school together?	16:41
	Did you all go to the same school?	16:43
-	Yes.	16:45
-	Did everybody graduate from that school?	16:47
-	No, I was the only one.	16:49
-	So they stopped before then?	16:52
-	They did.	16:53
-	I see. To do farming or to move-	16:54
-	To do farming.	16:56
-	On that land or other places?	16:58
-	On their daddy's land and other places.	17:01
	And then they got public jobs.	17:05
-	Oh. Doing what sorts of things?	17:07
-	One was working at White's Furniture Factory for a while,	17:12
	here in Hillsborough.	17:17
	And then they also worked at a lumber plant.	17:19
	Then they worked some at mills, like in Alamance County.	17:25
-	When they left school to take these jobs,	17:35
	did they leave home as well, or did they-	17:38
-	One did. He moved to Connecticut.	17:41
-	Oh. Why did he go to Connecticut?	17:46
-	I don't know why he went to Connecticut.	17:51
	Probably to work.	17:54
	Then when he left Connecticut,	17:57
	he got a job in Cincinnati, Ohio.	17:58
-	Wow.	18:01
-	And he stayed there a good while.	18:02
	He came to Washington, on down to Maryland,	18:05
	and back home.	18:11
-	So he kind of slowly made his way back?	18:13
-	Right.	18:15
-	So is he back here now?
-	Yes.	18:17
-	What's he doing now?
-	He's retired now.	18:19
-	Oh. Huh.
	Why did you stay in school all the way through	18:23
	to graduating?	18:26
-	Oh, it was something that I liked.	18:28
-	Yeah.	18:33
	You said that you grew up,	18:37
	this neighborhood that you were in,	18:39
	this community was predominantly White,	18:40
	you were the only Black family, so your friends were White.	18:42
	What about when you went to school?	18:45
	I mean, I'm assuming you went to different schools, then?	18:48
-	Well, as far as riding the school bus,	18:52
	I had to walk nearly a mile to meet the school bus.	18:58
	Because by me being the only Black child	19:04
	living on that road in that area,	19:08
	they didn't have a school bus to come by there.	19:13
	'Cause they said it wasn't enough children	19:16
	there in that section.	19:20
-	To get a whole school bus for Black children?	19:21
-	Right.	19:23
	So I had to walk nearly a mile to meet the school bus.	19:24
-	And the school bus that you met was a Black school bus?	19:28
-	Right, right.	19:32
-	I see.
	So it was just that you happened, I see. So was that-	19:34
-	Now when I got in the 11th grade,	19:37
	they started letting the school bus come by where I live.	19:40
-	That Black school bus?	19:44
	The one that you used to have to walk to?	19:46
-	Right.	19:47
-	They finally said,
	okay, we'll come to you.	19:48
-	Right.
-	I wonder what changed. Do you know why they changed that?	19:50
-	I don't know.	19:53
	I guess they felt sorry for me.	19:56
-	How many years had you spent walking to the school bus?	19:59
-	10.	20:05
-	So was this basically since you started?	20:06
-	Because 11th and 12th grade,	20:09
	that's when I started riding the school bus	20:12
	in front of my door.	20:15
-	Right.	20:17
	That must have been-	20:17
	Do you remember the first day	20:19
	that the school bus came to your door?	20:20
-	I was happy.	20:22
	(both laughing)	20:23
-	I bet you were. Uh-huh.	20:25
-	There were days I didn't want to go to school	20:28
	because like, during the winter months, it was so cold.	20:30
	And then I had to walk by myself.	20:34
	Some of the days my daddy would walk with me	20:37
	to meet the school bus.	20:40
-	Especially, I bet, when you were younger? Were those-	20:43
-	When I was younger.	20:46
	And like, real rainy days,	20:48
	maybe a day I wouldn't go to school.	20:51
-	Because the weather was so bad?	20:53
-	Right.	20:55
-	Yeah.
	That's a long way to walk to catch a school bus.	20:56
-	That's right.	20:59
-	Yeah.
	Was there a nearby Black community	21:06
	that was serviced by that bus?	21:10
	I mean, you said that the bus wouldn't go to pick you up	21:15
	'cause you were farther away	21:19
	and they wouldn't go as far as you lived to get you	21:20
	and you were living in this White community.	21:23
-	Well, over on another road called St. Mary's Road,	21:26
	it was more Blacks lived over there than on my road.	21:32
-	So the school bus went there	21:37
	and collected students from there?	21:39
-	Yes. And then it would make a circle.	21:40
	And come around so it could pick me up.	21:42
-	When they finally started picking you up?	21:44
-	Right.	21:47
-	Before they picked you up, where did you go	21:48
	to catch the bus?	21:51
	Where would you wait to catch the bus?	21:51
-	At a church. New Sharon Church.	21:54
-	Oh, which is the church that you go to now?	21:57
-	No, it's a White church.	21:59
-	Oh.	22:01
	But did you tell me earlier when we were talking-	22:03
-	I go to Lipscomb Grove Baptist Church.	22:07
-	Oh, okay.	22:10
	I'm just trying to remember why.	22:12
-	Now, New Sharon Church is a all White church	22:14
	and they named the road I live on after this church.	22:20
-	Oh, okay.	22:23
	That's why I knew the New Sharon.	22:24
	You told me, that was your address, not your church.	22:25
	(laughing) Okay.	22:30
	So was it that you lived about a mile down on that road	22:31
	from the church?	22:35
-	Yes.	22:36
-	Okay.
	But when you were growing up, you didn't attend that church?	22:37
-	No I didn't.	22:39
-	Cause it was a White church.
	What church did you attend?	22:41
-	But we would sometimes be invited to come.	22:42
-	Your family would be?	22:45
-	Yes.
-	Who would invite you?	22:48
-	Some of the members.	22:49
	Because we knew most of the members that go to that church	22:50
	and they would invite us sometime	22:56
	to come to service there.	22:59
-	Was that for particular occasions	23:03
	or as a gesture of friendship or?	23:05
-	Particular occasions.	23:07
-	I see. What kind of occasions?	23:11
-	Like weddings and sometime they have homecomings.	23:13
	They knew my mother liked to go to church	23:18
	and she helped a lot of people in their homes	23:22
	that go to church there.	23:28
-	So they knew her pretty well?	23:31
-	Right.	23:32
-	What about your neighbors, your White neighbors?	23:33
	Did they go to that church?	23:37
-	Yes.	23:39
-	I see.
	So were they sometimes the ones that would invite you?	23:40
-	Yes.	23:44
-	What would they do?
	Did those white neighbors,	23:47
	I know that you said that you all helped each other	23:51
	with the farm work.	23:54
	Would those White neighbors	23:59
	also socialize with your parents?	24:01
-	Yes.	24:04
-	'Cause I know that you said that you did with their kids.	24:05
-	Yes.	24:07
-	Did your parents and the parents of your friends?	24:08
-	They would take time to come to my mother's house.	24:11
	They'd sit and talk.	24:14
	Then my mother would go to their house	24:16
	when work was slow and they would sit and talk.	24:20
-	What was the name of your church that you went to	24:27
	when you were growing up?	24:30
-	I went to my mother's church,	24:33
	which is a primitive Baptist church.	24:35
	They tell me that's the oldest religion.	24:39
	It is.	24:44
	And so most of my family are members at that church.	24:47
-	Still?	24:54
-	Still.
	But after I grew up, I started going to the other church,	24:57
	which is called Lipscomb Grove Baptist Church.	25:01
-	Why did you switch?	25:06
-	Well,	25:08
	I like singing in the choir,	25:09
	ushering	25:15
	and doing different things,	25:17
	and at the primitive Baptist church,	25:19
	they didn't have a choir or ushers.	25:21
-	I'm sorry, the term you used was ushers?	25:25
-	Uh-huh.	25:27
-	Uh-huh.
	I see. And you wanted, you wanted those?	25:30
-	Right.	25:32
-	So you sing in the choir now?	25:33
-	Sometimes.	25:34
-	Uh-huh.
	Yeah.	25:38
	Did your family-	25:42
-	But we still go to my mother's church.	25:43
	Whenever they have homecoming, we take a basket.	25:47
-	Oh, really?	25:52
-	Of food.
	And about twice a year we go.	25:54
-	Did any of your family members	26:01
	who still belong to that church, did they object at all	26:03
	when you decided to change churches,	26:07
	did they question you about it or?	26:09
-	Oh. They just said, well, don't forget us.	26:11
	Come back to see us.	26:17
-	And so you do?	26:18
-	Right.
-	Yeah.	26:19
	Where was this primitive Baptist church located?	26:20
-	The primitive Baptist?	26:25
-	Yeah.
-	In Cedar Grove, North Carolina.	26:27
-	Oh. I see.	26:30
-	That's about, I would say about 15 miles	26:32
	from where I live now.	26:36
-	So how did you get there when you,	26:38
	when you were growing up, did you go there every Sunday or?	26:42
-	Yes, when I was small, my mother made me go.	26:45
	My mother's brother would take us to church.	26:53
	Either when my daddy had time, he would take us.	27:02
-	So he didn't always go to church?	27:05
-	No, he didn't.	27:07
-	Oh, okay.
	So this was really your mother was-	27:08
-	He always liked to stay home.	27:11
-	Oh.	27:12
	(both laughing)
	So she couldn't make him go.	27:14
-	Uh-uh.
-	I see.	27:17
	Hmm.	27:19
	And was that church in a Black community?	27:23
	Was that-	27:24
-	Yes.
-	Trying to think,	27:34
	there was something else I was going to ask you.	27:35
	Oh, I know, I wanted to just get back to something again.	27:42
	When you were in school,	27:50
	I'm assuming you made friends with people,	27:53
	with students in school as well, when you were growing up.	27:56
-	Right.	27:59
-	So it sounds like you had both Black friends	28:00
	and White friends.	28:01
-	Right.
-	Would you ever get together with them together?	28:03
	Would you ever get together with your White friends	28:09
	and your Black friends together?	28:12
-	Yes.	28:14
-	So everybody played together?	28:15
-	Yes.	28:16
-	Into high school as well?
-	Yes.	28:18
-	Uh-huh. Wow.
-	Now, sometime now when my White friends	28:20
	come to visit their parents, the ones that live out of town,	28:25
	they always stop by to see me.	28:28
-	And same thing with your friends that you knew	28:33
	from your school?	28:35
-	Yes.
-	What do you remember, or do you remember	28:43
	much about your grandparents or where they're from?	28:49
-	Not too much.	28:53
	My grandmother was Cherokee Indian.	28:55
-	Full Cherokee Indian?	29:01
-	Full Cherokee Indian.
	And I can't remember where she came from.	29:05
	And my grandfather, he was Scottish	29:12
	and I don't know how he get here.	29:17
-	Huh.	29:18
	He was full Scottish?	29:23
-	Right. I don't even know how they met.	29:25
-	Huh.	29:27
-	But I have-	29:29
-	And this is on your father-	29:30
-	This was my real parents.	29:32
-	Okay.
-	My real mother's mother and daddy.	29:35
-	Okay.	29:38
	And you don't know how they met or-	29:41
-	I was real small when my grandmother died	29:44
	and my grandfather died before I was born.	29:50
	But I have cousins that know their whole history of them.	29:56
-	Oh, really?	30:00
-	Yes.
-	And you just haven't, I see. Wow.	30:02
	Have they told you that history before?	30:06
-	They hadn't told me too much.	30:10
	My cousin is supposed to come down this summer.	30:13
	And she's supposed to bring me	30:18
	some information about my grandparents.	30:20
	How they got here and how they met.	30:24
-	So that was on your mother's side?	30:27
-	Right.	30:29
-	And so then what about on your father's side?	30:30
-	Oh, I didn't know them.	30:36
-	Wow.	30:39
	Do you know what your grandparents on your mother's side did	30:40
	for a living?	30:44
-	No, I don't.	30:46
-	Pretty much that she was Cherokee and he was Scottish.	30:47
-	He died before she did. Long, long time before she did.	30:51
	And I think she helped her daughters	30:55
	on the farm.	31:00
-	I see.	31:02
-	Which were my mother's sister's.	31:04
-	Right. And was that near Alamance?	31:07
-	Right.	31:10
-	Or in Alamance.
-	Near Alamance County.	31:12
-	Okay.
-	It was on the Orange County and Alamance County line.	31:14
-	So your real mother's	31:18
	sisters or your real mother, they had a-	31:23
	What did your parents, before they passed,	31:27
	what did they do, were they also farmers?	31:31
-	They were farmers too.	31:34
-	Did they own their own farm?	31:35
-	Yes.	31:37
-	Oh.
	So, oh right.	31:40
	And I guess you said this was your mother's brother,	31:42
	who is your father?	31:45
-	Right.
	That raised me.	31:46
-	Who raised you.
-	Yes.	31:48
-	Okay.
	So were they all raised on a farm together?	31:49
-	Yes.	31:52
-	That your grandparents owned?	31:53
-	Right.	31:56
-	I see. Okay.
	And so there's been farming for, I guess for,	31:58
	I mean, you've owned farms in the family for,	32:03
	sounds like two, I guess if you count you,	32:06
	I guess that'd be your third generation owning a farm?	32:09
-	I think so.	32:13
-	Does that sound right?
-	It sounds right.	32:15
	(both laughing)
-	Just trying to get that straight.	32:18
	Wow. So-	32:20
	Oh, there was something else	32:24
	I was going to ask you about that.	32:25
	Okay, let me look at some of these questions.	32:31
	So as far as when you grew up in your household,	32:36
	sounds like there were about,	32:38
	including your brothers and sisters,	32:40
	about eight or 10 of you,	32:41
	I guess if you include your parents.	32:43
-	Yes.	32:45
-	Is that right, okay.
	In your community that you grew up in,	33:00
	can you think of who were some of the most important people	33:03
	that you knew of in the community?	33:08
	If there were people that stand out in your mind.	33:13
-	You mean White families?	33:18
-	Or Black, I mean.	33:21
-	Yes.	33:29
	This is a Black family.	33:32
	Mr. Charlie Thompson.	33:35
-	And what was important about him?	33:40
-	Well, he had a dairy farm	33:43
	and he also raised lots of chickens	33:47
	and sold eggs.	33:52
	So that's where we would get eggs and chickens from	33:54
	and milk.	34:00
-	And were you friends with him?	34:04
-	Yes.	34:06
-	So did he get produce from you	34:07
	during your harvest would he-	34:09
-	No. We just only got produce from him.	34:12
-	Oh, okay.	34:15
-	Yeah.
-	I see.	34:17
	And was he sort of well known	34:19
	or well respected in the community?	34:20
-	Yes.	34:22
-	So sounds he did well for himself?	34:23
-	Right.	34:25
	He and his wife were just like parents to me.	34:27
-	Oh, really?	34:30
	So you saw them often?	34:32
-	Yeah.
-	What would you do with them?	34:34
-	I'd go and spend weekends with them.	34:36
-	Oh, really?	34:39
-	Because they had-	34:40
	Mr. Charlie raised two of his nieces.	34:45
	Their parents died when they were small.	34:50
	And so we were friends too.	34:53
-	You and his nieces?	34:55
-	Right.
-	I see. So they were around your age?	34:58
-	Right.	35:00
-	Did they go to the same school as you did?	35:01
-	Yes.	35:02
-	Okay.
	Do you still know them?	35:04
-	Uh-huh.
-	So they're still around here?	35:06
-	Yes. We're still friends.	35:07
-	What are they doing around here?	35:08
-	One of the girls work as a home health nurse	35:11
	in Chapel Hill.	35:15
	And the other girl work at Blue Cross and Blue Shield.	35:18
-	Oh, yeah.	35:22
-	In Durham.	35:23
-	Yeah.
-	Did you ever travel very much when you were growing up?	35:28
	Did you all visit folks anywhere else?	35:33
-	No, we visit people, well,	35:35
	right around here in North Carolina,	35:41
	we never did go out of town.	35:43
	Some weekends, my mother and I would catch the train	35:45
	and go to Greensboro where I have relatives.	35:49
-	And you'd visit them-	35:53
-	Yes.	35:55
-	For a few days or?
-	Just for the weekend.	35:58
-	Right.	36:00
-	And then they would come down here	36:01
	and spend a week during the summer every year.	36:03
-	On the farm with you?	36:06
-	Right.
-	What did they do in Greensboro?	36:09
-	I think they worked in a mill.	36:12
	And this was my grandmother's sister.	36:17
-	Your grandmother's sister.	36:21
-	In Greensboro.	36:25
-	On your mother's, well-	36:26
-	On my mother's side.	36:27
-	On your real mother or on your-	36:28
-	My real mother.	36:30
-	Oh, okay.	36:31
	So she was Cherokee as well, okay.	36:32
	Wow.	36:35
	What was it like traveling from here to Greensboro?	36:38
-	It was fun because we got to ride the train.	36:41
-	Did you ride in special cars on the train?	36:46
-	No.	36:48
-	Huh.	36:51
	But were the trains segregated when you were?	36:53
-	I'm sure it was, 'cause I was about eight, nine years old.	36:56
-	Right.	37:03
	So, I mean, I guess they called them the Jim Crow cars.	37:04
	Did you go in those?	37:07
	I mean, were you aware of other White passengers	37:10
	in different parts of the train?	37:14
-	Right, right.	37:15
-	Okay. And did that ever-	37:18
	Okay, good.	37:23
	Did it ever leave an impression on you?	37:28
	Did you ever sort of say "why are we riding here	37:30
	or why are we riding separately from them?"	37:35
-	On the train I never did say,	37:37
	but riding the bus, I would ask my mother	37:40
	why we always had to ride in the back.	37:45
	Either why would we have to stand	37:49
	if the seats was filled up.	37:53
-	And what would she say?	37:57
-	And she would just say, well, we'll just have to stand up.	37:58
-	So she never really-	38:08
-	Given me a good answer.	38:11
	(both laughing)	38:13
-	So did you keep wondering,	38:16
	did you ever sort of make sense of it yourself?	38:17
-	Well, I just always thought,	38:20
	well, maybe we can't sit down.	38:23
-	Just, that was it, you just sort of thought, okay we-	38:28
-	Yeah, I just passed it over.	38:30
-	Right.	38:31
	It doesn't sound like	38:36
	you ever got really indignant about it.	38:37
-	I didn't.	38:40
-	You just thought, okay, this is what we have to do.	38:42
-	That's right.	38:43
-	Is that just generally how things were,	38:46
	I mean, as far as going to a separate school	38:49
	from your White friends	38:53
	or your White, what were you going to say?	38:54
-	Well, my history teacher always told us,	38:58
	I think I was in the 11th grade.	39:02
	She said before the end of my time,	39:07
	she said, "I feel like Black and White schools	39:10
	will come together."	39:16
-	Hmm.	39:17
	And then let's see, what year was that about?	39:18
-	I graduated in 1955.	39:21
-	Oh, okay.	39:24
	And then Brown decision came down in 1954.	39:25
-	Right.	39:28
-	Do you remember when that happened?	39:29
-	When, integration?	39:31
-	Mm-hmm.
-	Yes, I do.	39:32
-	Can you describe what you remember about that time?	39:35
-	My boys, I have two sons and they were little boys then.	39:40
-	So you had kids when you were, okay.	39:46
	Do you remember about what year that was?	39:51
-	When they were in school?	39:54
	I mean, when they were small kids?	39:55
-	Yeah.	39:57
-	It was in the sixties.	39:59
	It was real exciting to them.	40:04
	I think they were chosen to ride the school bus.	40:10
	I was living here in Hillsborough then.	40:14
	And it was real exciting to them	40:18
	because they were chosen to ride the school bus	40:20
	with the White kids.	40:22
	And I think they rode for a couple of days.	40:26
	And then when I get 'em ready to go to school,	40:29
	instead of them getting on the school bus,	40:36
	they would walk to school.	40:40
-	Which was how far away?	40:43
-	Not very far.	40:47
-	Why did they walk instead of take the bus?	40:49
-	They thought it was more fun to walk.	40:51
-	Oh.	40:54
-	Because they would be with their friends,	40:54
	be walking with their friends.	40:58
-	Were those friends not able to ride the school bus?	40:59
-	They could have, they just chose to walk.	41:03
-	And so they want to be their friends.	41:05
-	Right.	41:07
-	But it wasn't because of conflicts on the bus?	41:08
-	No.	41:12
-	Oh, okay.
	I thought when you first said that,	41:13
	that they'd been excited at first,	41:14
	they rode it a couple times and then didn't anymore.	41:15
	But it wasn't because there were problems on the bus.	41:17
-	No, no problems.	41:20
-	But they were excited that they had the opportunity.	41:21
-	I don't remember, in my area,	41:23
	I don't remember where they had problems on the bus.	41:26
	It was probably names called,	41:30
	but there were no fights, anything like that.	41:32
	But when I was out of town,	41:36
	at the time I was in Virginia on vacation	41:39
	and I think they had a big fight at the high school.	41:44
-	When your boys were young or?	41:49
-	They were still young.	41:51
-	Now tell me again, was this high school,	41:53
	now this became the Central integrated high school?	41:54
-	No, Orange High.	41:58
-	Orange High.	41:59
-	Right.
-	But your boys were still in Elementary?	42:03
-	In Elementary.	42:05
-	Which was?	42:06
-	Central. They were going to Central.	42:08
-	Okay.	42:10
-	Elementary.
-	And that was before Central burned down?	42:11
-	Yeah, it was before Central burned down,	42:15
	but they had built back.	42:18
	They had built a new Central school.	42:20
-	Oh.	42:23
-	Yeah.
	And then they built a new Central Elementary School too.	42:24
-	Okay.	42:28
-	Which is now used for kindergarten.	42:30
-	Oh.	42:33
-	First grade, second.
	Up to about fifth grade, I think.	42:38
-	So was the elementary school	42:40
	that your boys attended integrated?	42:41
	So Orange High School was,	42:44
-	Yes.
-	Was the elementary school as well?	42:47
-	Yes.	42:49
-	Okay.
	And so that was the bus that they drove in	42:50
	when it was first became integrated.	42:53
-	Right.	42:54
-	And then they chose to walk anyway	42:55
	because they wanted to be with everybody.	42:56
	Okay, so getting back to your story, sorry.	42:58
	So you were in Virginia and there was, you said.	43:03
-	It was a fight.	43:07
-	This was in the early sixties?	43:08
-	Serious.	43:09
	I think it was real serious.	43:12
-	Do you remember what happened?	43:14
-	I don't really remember what happened	43:16
	and how it got started.	43:19
-	Do you remember how your White neighbors reacted	43:22
	when there was integration?	43:26
	Did you ever talk about it with them?	43:30
-	No, I never did talk about it with them.	43:32
	But to me, they didn't seem angry.	43:36
-	So they didn't act like the sky was falling	43:41
-	No.	43:43
-	Or something?
	The way some did.	43:45
	(both laughing)
	So did you ever talk about those kinds of things	43:53
	with your White friends?	43:55
-	No, I never did.	43:58
-	I mean, like earlier,	44:00
	when you'd say to your mother, why are we standing?	44:01
-	Right.	44:05
-	And she wouldn't really give you an answer.	44:06
	Did you ever talk to your-	44:07
-	No, I never did.	44:09
-	It was just something that kind of,	44:10
	you went to your separate schools and if you,	44:12
	did you ever try to ride the bus together?	44:14
	I mean, was there ever a time	44:16
	or say if you were going to go	44:18
	and I don't know if you ever went to the movies	44:20
	when you were younger.	44:22
-	Yes.
-	Did you go to the movies?	44:23
-	Yes, I did.
-	And did you have to, I'm assuming-	44:25
-	They had a theater here in Hillsborough.	44:27
	They had the ground floor for the Whites.	44:31
	Blacks had to go upstairs, but we was in the same building.	44:37
-	Right.	44:40
	Did you ever go with White friends	44:43
	and sort of say to each other, "okay,	44:48
	I'll see you at the end of the movie."	44:51
	Did you ever go to the movies together?	44:52
-	At a couple of times, I did.	44:55
-	And you would just, again, sit-	44:58
-	Because my school buddy,	44:59
	she would go to the movie every Saturday afternoon.	45:02
	So I had to come in town with my White neighbor's children.	45:06
-	Like drive into town?	45:13
-	Right.
	So when we get to the theater, they go in and I go upstairs.	45:15
-	And then you'd meet back out at the end of the movie?	45:21
-	Right.	45:23
-	And talk about the movie.
-	Right.	45:25
-	The way that you described this,	45:34
	it sounds like it was sort of taken for granted,	45:38
	that that's what you did.	45:43
-	Right.
-	And just from what you've said,	45:46
	it doesn't sound like it was something you talked about.	45:49
-	No, I didn't really talk about it.	45:51
-	Yeah. And then I guess-	46:04
-	I think it was worse,	46:07
	working at Duke.	46:11
	Earlier, I told you that we worked third shift.	46:15
-	That yeah, which was from 10:00 PM to 7?	46:19
-	10:30 to seven in the morning.	46:23
	Well, when we came to work first shift in the daytime,	46:26
	most of the people in the library in Perkins,	46:33
	they looked at us like we was a bunch of monsters.	46:38
-	Really?	46:42
-	They did.
-	And this was in the-	46:43

	[Kate Ellis] Okay, so you've been working at Duke	0:02
	for almost 18 years?	0:07
	[Emily Willette McCandies] Right.	0:09
-	Okay, and so when you-	0:09
-	When we came to daytime,	0:11
	most of the office people didn't,	0:14
	I don't really think they wanted us to come to.	0:18
-	Wow.	0:21
-	Daytime.	0:22
-	Were all the nighttime workers Black?	0:23
-	Yes.	0:27
-	Oh.
-	And they looked at us	0:28
	like we was a bunch of monsters.	0:29
	They treated us real cruel.	0:33
	They wouldn't speak to us.	0:36
	And they, we could go in the lounge to eat,	0:40
	and we go in and sit down, they would get up and leave.	0:45
	It would be just a very few of us to go	0:49
	to the lounge to eat lunch.	0:51
-	Wow.
-	And they would get up and leave.	0:54
	But as time went by,	0:58
	they started speaking to us and talking to us	1:00
	and they stopped getting up, leaving out of the lounge.	1:05
	Now just about, everybody is real friendly with me.	1:10
-	Mm hm.	1:14
-	About half of them was good friends to me.	1:16
-	Really?	1:18
	Were you surprised when it first happened?	1:20
-	Yes.	1:23
	And it sort of hurt my feelings to, you know,	1:24
	to see people treat you like that.	1:29
-	Was that one of the first	1:36
	experiences that you had like that?	1:38
-	Yes.	1:40
-	Wow.	1:43
-	Because when we were working night shift,	1:44
	you know, we never did see the office people.	1:45
-	Mm hm.	1:49
-	But as far as the students,	1:52
	they have always been nice to us.	1:54
-	So it was the office people	2:01
	working at the library.	2:03
-	Right, right.
	So now, like some of the office people	2:10
	they'll take me out on my birthday from work.	2:16
	I have one real good friend there.	2:25
	Her name is Susan Salls.	2:29
-	And she's-	2:31
-	She work in reference.	2:32
-	I see.	2:36
-	And she comes to visit me.	2:38
	She'd go with me to church.	2:43
	We go shopping together sometimes.	2:46
	We're real close.	2:48
-	She wasn't one of the-	2:50
	was she one of the people who-?	2:52
-	No.	2:53
-	Okay.
-	She wasn't one.	2:54
-	One of-	2:55
	(both laugh)	2:56
-	So, since we're on the topic of work,	3:04
	you've said that you've worked at Duke for almost 18 years.	3:09
	What did you do before then?	3:13
-	I worked, before I went to Duke,	3:15
	I worked at White's Furniture Factory.	3:17
-	Which, I guess you'd mentioned that	3:21
	some family members had worked there?	3:22
-	Yes.	3:23
-	Uh huh.
	What did you do there?	3:24
-	Sand furniture.	3:26
-	Oh, wow.	3:27
-	And before then I worked at the nursing home,	3:30
	I worked as a physical therapist aid.	3:36
-	Oh.	3:39
-	But after a while you want to get away from that.	3:42
-	Why?	3:46
-	I would get too attached to the patients.	3:46
-	Hm, and-	3:50
-	Like when one of the patients die,	3:52
	it hurts you a lot.	3:57
-	Yeah, so you thought	4:00
	try something that's a little different,	4:03
	Sand furniture	4:07
	and stuff.	4:08
-	Right.
-	You don't get so attached	4:09
	to the furniture.	4:10
-	Right.
	It was hard work.	4:12
-	Yeah, which, the furniture job?	4:13
-	Yes.	4:16
-	Yeah.
	Sounds like that'd be hard work.	4:18
-	Yes, and, and the pay was real bad.	4:19
-	Oh, really?	4:22
-	My take home pay was $56 a week.	4:24
-	Hmm, that's not much to live on.	4:30
-	That was-	4:33
-	When was that?	4:34
-	That was in 1970.	4:41
	It was '70 or '71.	4:45
-	How long did you work there?	4:48
-	I worked there about a year and a half.	4:50
-	And then got the Duke job?	4:53
-	Right.	4:55
-	How long did you work-	4:56
-	But I took a little rest period in between that	4:58
	and the Duke job.	5:01
-	Yeah.	5:02
-	'Cause I went to Duke in 1975.	5:03
-	Now you told me this in the car,	5:08
	did you get married in 1974?	5:11
-	In 1976.	5:13
-	Oh, okay, okay.	5:14
	To Mr. Scarborough?	5:18
-	Right.	5:19
-	How long did you work at the nursing home?	5:25
-	I worked at the nursing home for,	5:28
	about four years.	5:31
-	So when you got out of high school,	5:34
	what did you do?	5:36
-	I done a lot of babysitting.	5:39
	And-	5:41
-	Did you stay
	living with your parents?	5:42
-	No, I left home.	5:44
-	And where'd you go?	5:46
-	My brother's wife was sick	5:48
	and their children was small and	5:52
	they was still having children.	5:55
	So they wanted me to come and stay with them	5:57
	and help them with the children.	6:00
-	And where was that?	6:02
-	Huh?	6:04
-	Where was that?
-	They were living up in Alamance County.	6:05
-	Oh, okay, how far away is that, about?	6:08
-	That's about, where he was living,	6:10
	it was about, 20 miles away.	6:14
	And he was farming,	6:20
	and his wife was in the hospital at Chapel Hill.	6:23
-	And, this was in the 50s?	6:25
-	Yes.	6:29
-	Mid 50s?
-	Right.	6:30
-	Okay.
-	And they wanted me to come and help with the children,	6:32
	while he worked on the farm.	6:37
	And so I stayed with them a good while.	6:41
-	Doing that, and then what, and then what did you do?	6:46
	And then what happened?	6:49
-	What happened?	6:50
	(both chuckle)	6:51
	I can't hardly	6:56
	remember a name.	6:57
-	Really? (laughs)
-	Getting little jobs babysitting.	7:01
	Maybe-	7:04
-	In Alamance, you did?
-	No, I came back to Hillsborough.	7:06
-	And moved in with your parents again, or?	7:09
-	No, a real good friend of mine,	7:13
	which was just like a mother to me.	7:20
-	Hmm.	7:23
-	And I stayed with her for a long time.	7:24
-	So there were a lot of people you were	7:27
	close to.	7:28
-	Right.
-	'Cause there was Mr. Charlie.	7:30
-	Right, well, this was	7:32
	Mr. Charlie's sister that I was living with.	7:33
-	Oh, okay.	7:36
-	Yes.
-	So you've probably known her for years.	7:38
-	Yes, I had known her for about,	7:40
	20, 25 years or longer.	7:46
-	Wow.	7:48
-	And then I've lived with her for about 18 years.	7:52
-	Oh, in Hillsborough?	7:59
-	Mm hmm.
-	From the mid 50s-	8:01
-	Right.	8:02
-	To the early 70s.	8:03
-	Right, right.	8:05
-	Is that right?
-	Was your marriage to Mr. Scarborough,	8:06
	was that your first marriage?	8:10
-	Right.	8:12
-	I see.
-	I had my two sons out of wedlock.	8:15
-	Okay, and when was that?	8:18
-	My oldest son was born in 1956.	8:21
-	So, and that was when you were living with-	8:25
-	My brother.	8:28
-	Oh, okay, uh huh.	8:29
-	And I had my youngest son in 1957.	8:31
-	Uh huh.	8:36
	and where did you have those sons?	8:38
	That was in Alamance County?	8:41
-	No, I had them at Duke Hospital.	8:42
-	Oh, okay.	8:45
	So, 'cause I guess I wasn't that far away,	8:46
	I mean, that was, you said like, 20 miles away	8:49
	or something like that.	8:51
-	Right, right.
-	And then once you had those,	8:53
	and that was pretty close together,	8:56
	those were-	8:57
-	Right.
-	Like with, I guess-	8:58
-	My oldest son, he was born in January	8:59
	of 1956.	9:04
	And my youngest son was born July of 1957.	9:09
-	Okay, wow.	9:12
	And so when you had them, did you still,	9:15
	stay with your,	9:17
	it's your father's, tell me again,	9:22
	it's your brother in Alamance County.	9:24
-	Right, I stayed with him.	9:27
-	Right.
-	And then when his wife got out the hospital,	9:28
	I came to Hillsborough.	9:32
	And Mr. Charlie's sister and her husband	9:35
	wanted us to live with them.	9:38
-	Oh.	9:41
-	Because they didn't
	have children.	9:42
-	Oh.
	So it was a five of you-	9:43
-	Right.
-	Who made up that household.	9:45
-	Right.
-	Wow, and so that's where your boys were raised-	9:47
-	Right, right.	9:50
-	with them.
	How was that?	9:53
	did you sound like that was	9:54
	a good arrangement?	9:58
-	It was.	9:59
-	I see, and then, they're,	10:02
	in elementary school, okay.	10:05
-	So that's how they got to walk to school.	10:10
-	Right.	10:12
-	When they didn't want
	to ride the school bus.	10:13
-	So they were sort of near school	10:15
	and they can-	10:17
-	Right.
-	And then what did you do during the time	10:21
	that they were growing up?	10:23
-	One of the jobs I had too was a little restaurant	10:28
	and it was just a block from where I was living,	10:33
	with Mr. Charlie's sister here in Hillsborough.	10:37
-	So you worked there for?	10:43
-	So I worked there.	10:44
-	How do you think	10:51
	Hillsborough has changed since you were	10:54
	a little girl living here?	10:56
-	Well, it's more buildings now.	11:00
-	Uh huh.	11:04
-	This area here at Daniel Boone is all new.	11:05
-	Oh, this whole shopping area?	11:09
-	Right, that wasn't here.	11:11
-	So it was more, sort of more country?	11:15
-	Yes, and they had put just a couple of new buildings,	11:17
	downtown Hillsborough.	11:24
	It's hard to get a building there	11:27
	because they want to keep it historic.	11:29
-	Oh, uh huh.	11:30
	Yeah, you had mentioned earlier that it was historic	11:32
	that we had just passed an area	11:35
	where slaves used to be whipped?	11:37
-	Yes.	11:38
-	In public.
-	Right.	11:39
-	What else, and I guess I'd asked you this,	11:42
	but what else do you know about this area, historically?	11:43
	What else did they want to...	11:47
-	They have the stone downtown Hillsborough	11:52
	where Daniel Boone surrendered.	11:55
-	Oh, I see.	11:57
-	Hm.	11:59
-	Okay.
	So they're still trying to preserve this area?	12:01
-	Right, it's Daniel Boone.	12:05
-	Right.	12:06
	Wow.	12:09
	What about,	12:15
	as far as neighborhoods are concerned,	12:20
	is it still somewhat segregated or	12:22
	do you notice that-	12:27
-	I wouldn't think so now.	12:30
-	There's more mixing between Black and Whites.	12:32
-	Yeah, it's more mixing now.	12:38
	Because Blacks going with White now, married.	12:41
-	Oh, uh huh.	12:47
-	Yes.
	White going with more Blacks now.	12:49
-	So you see that around?	12:51
-	Yes, it's around a lot now.	12:53
-	And you think people accept that more now?	12:56
-	Right.	12:58
-	What would've happened
	if that was the case when you were,	12:59
	if a couple had done that when you were growing up,	13:01
	what do you think?	13:04
-	They'd have probably got killed.	13:06
-	Who would've killed them?	13:08
	(both laugh)
-	Probably some of the White.	13:12
-	Uh huh, so there were Whites around too.	13:13
-	Right.	13:17
-	If not your neighbors.
-	Because, both of my son has dated White girls.	13:18
-	Oh really?	13:22
-	And which my youngest son was engaged to get married	13:24
	to a White girl.	13:28
-	And what, and it didn't work out?	13:30
-	Didn't work out, what happened,	13:31
	he started running around.	13:33
-	Your son did?	13:35
-	Yes. (laughs)	13:36
	So that broke that up.	13:39
	(both laugh)
-	I'll just go back to this one more time,	13:56
	probably thinking, "Why is she dwelling on this?"	14:00
	(Emily laughs)	14:02
	But it's just to get,	14:02
	a good sense of what it was like for you growing up,	14:04
	you know, among White families, who, as you say,	14:06
	you know, you were friends with,	14:08
	your family's friends with.	14:10
-	Right.
-	Were there other members of the community	14:11
	who disapproved of those friendships, who ever,	14:14
	who threatened your family or the White families,	14:18
	who you were friends with.	14:22
	In other words, did that ever-	14:23
-	If so, I didn't know anything about it.	14:25
-	But you did know,	14:28
	that if say,	14:32
	a Black man and a White woman wanted to go out together,	14:33
	that would be a very dangerous-	14:36
-	Yeah.	14:38
	(both laugh)
	Real serious.	14:41
-	Uh huh.
	How do you think you knew that?	14:42
	I mean how,	14:44
	do you know,	14:48
	what I mean is,	14:49
	it's sort of a funny question.	14:53
	It's sort of like you got along well with your neighbors	14:58
	and it sounds to me just from everything you're saying,	15:01
	but just the end doesn't sound like you experienced	15:04
	a lot of,	15:08
	I don't know.	15:10
-	I haven't experienced, you know,	15:13
	too much of anything that was bad.	15:16
-	As far as prejudice?	15:20
-	Right.	15:21
-	Do you have any earlier memories I mean-	15:23
-	Because my parents that raised me,	15:25
	they had a lot of White friends.	15:30
	Lot of times, even up until they retired,	15:34
	some of the White neighbors would freeze vegetables	15:40
	out of their gardens and bring it to them,	15:43
	to put in their freezer.	15:47
	You know, after they retired.	15:49
-	Right, so they were really taken care of.	15:50
-	Right, and one of my White neighbors now	15:52
	that I grew up with,	15:56
	he brings me vegetables out of his garden, he and his wife.	15:59
-	Was it at all different in Alamance County?	16:10
	Like did you notice much of a difference when you	16:14
	moved back and you know, between Hillsborough and...	16:16
-	Oh, well, when I would go back up there,	16:22
	like when I went to stay with my brother	16:27
	to help him take care of his children,	16:30
	I didn't know the people.	16:33
	So I don't really know how they got along up there.	16:38
	They'd work together.	16:43
-	Blacks and Whites?	16:45
-	Right.
	I know in Alamance County it was a lot of	16:51
	Black people that	16:57
	looked like they could have passed for White.	17:00
-	Oh.	17:03
-	I think if that come about in slavery time.	17:05
-	How do you mean?	17:10
-	You know, like the White man be with the Black lady.	17:14
-	Right.	17:17
-	And then their children look like they're White.	17:18
	Well, that community up there now is still,	17:21
	they all look like they're White.	17:26
-	Do you know?	17:29
-	And I remember at my mother's church,	17:31
	the Primitive Baptist Church,	17:34
	they were members too at my mother's church.	17:38
	And when they come to church, it was like,	17:44
	it was integrated.	17:47
-	Oh really?	17:48
-	Yes.	17:49
-	That's what it looked like
	when you-	17:50
-	The dark complexion
	people like sit on one side and the ones that looked like	17:51
	they were White sit on the other side.	17:56
-	And they didn't mix very much?	17:58
-	Uh uh.	18:00
-	What did you think about that?	18:02
-	In which a lot of them did try to go for White but-	18:03
-	They did?	18:06
-	They did, but it didn't work.	18:07
-	Really?	18:09
	(both laugh)
	Well what happened when they'd, go ahead.	18:10
-	So when they started the school here in Hillsborough	18:12
	with us,	18:15
	after they saw, you know,	18:18
	all had to be together, they got better.	18:20
	You know, they started being friendly with us.	18:24
-	Oh, when they saw that all	18:27
	that all Black children went-	18:28
-	Right.
-	To this particular school.	18:30
-	Right.
-	They stopped being so separate.	18:33
-	Right.	18:34
-	Huh.	18:35
	What would happen when they'd go for White?	18:40
	I mean, and it didn't work.	18:42
-	I don't know, It would just be something	18:45
	about 'em didn't work.	18:47
-	Uh huh.	18:48
	(Emily laughs)
	And you would hear about it?	18:50
-	Right.	18:51
-	So were there stories that would sort of go around	18:53
	about so and so?	18:55
-	Right.
-	Who tried to pass or-	18:58
-	Right.
-	Was found out or something like that?	19:00
-	Because I have cousins that,	19:02
	real dark complexion are married	19:04
	to some of 'em, some of the girls.	19:07
-	Are married to some of the light complexion?	19:10
-	Right.	19:12
-	Uh huh, I see.	19:14
	What did people say about the fact that,	19:28
	at the Primitive Baptist Church,	19:33
	that there was a set of separation in the church?	19:35
-	Nothing was said.	19:38
-	Oh, really?	19:39
-	Mm hmm.
-	People didn't-	19:40
-	To my knowing.
-	There wasn't sort of,	19:44
	back room talk sort of?	19:47
-	Like Sundays had homecoming, you know,	19:48
	where everybody take a basket of food.	19:52
-	Yeah.	19:55
-	The dark complexion people get at one end of the table	19:57
	and the real lights would get	20:02
	one end of the table.	20:06
-	Wow.	20:07
-	They wouldn't mix up.
-	They wouldn't-	20:09
	(both laugh)
	Wow, huh.	20:12
	But people didn't really, that you heard,	20:15
	people didn't really talk about it?	20:17
-	Didn't really talk about it.	20:19
-	Something that happened.	20:23
-	Right.	20:24
-	That's, wow.	20:27
	Were there any areas as you were growing up	20:34
	in your community that you	20:37
	would not venture into, that-	20:41
-	I think so.	20:45
-	White areas that were, what kind of areas?	20:50
-	Well, not only the White, some Black areas.	20:54
-	Really?	20:57
	'Cause what about them	20:58
	kind of made you think that you should stay away?	21:00
-	Well, like today maybe like	21:05
	a family that you think dealing with drugs.	21:10
	I wouldn't want to stay in that neighborhood.	21:17
-	Right, yeah.	21:19
	When you were growing up,	21:23
	if it was a Black community that you	21:26
	thought to stay away from, why,	21:30
	what was it about that community that...	21:32
-	You said White?	21:37
-	No.	21:38
-	Or Black?
-	Black, like, 'cause you just said earlier	21:39
	that it wasn't just a White community that you would	21:41
	necessarily want to stay away from.	21:43
	But there was-	21:45
-	I don't know.
	I guess I just have that feeling.	21:54
	Maybe I shouldn't,	21:56
	but it's always been some Blacks that I	21:58
	didn't want to associate with.	22:02
-	Because of,	22:06
	can you think-	22:08
-	Maybe I wouldn't know
	anything about 'em,	22:10
	just looking at 'em,	22:12
	you know, I wouldn't care for mixing up with them.	22:15
-	Yeah.	22:18
	And that was something that, yeah.	22:19
	Well actually that sort of brings me back to the question	22:21
	of the friends that you had in school	22:24
	that you went to school with.	22:28
	Did they come from,	22:29
	a sort of a predominantly Black neighborhood	22:34
	in Hillsborough?	22:36
-	Right.	22:37
-	And would you
	go home to their houses?	22:39
	Somewhat or would you-	22:42
-	Now some of them that, you know,	22:45
	I wanted to be friends with and like	22:47
	maybe we was friends in school,	22:49
	but maybe my parents wouldn't let me go.	22:51
-	I see, right, I see.	22:54
-	Maybe she knew something that I didn't know.	22:57
-	I see, right.	22:59
	So there were some people's families who you	23:00
	could go home to.	23:01
-	Right.
-	And those are some of the neighbors families.	23:03
-	Right.	23:04
-	But kids that you met in school,	23:05
	she wasn't necessarily so sure about.	23:07
-	Right.	23:10
-	I see, right.
	Let's see,	23:21
	within your community,	23:27
	let's see, was there,	23:36
	where would you do your shopping and things like that?	23:39
	I mean, was there a separate,	23:45
	was there like a central part of town,	23:47
	in Hillsborough where you would-	23:50
-	No.	23:51
	When I was growing up, we could shop most any place.	23:54
	There was no certain place, you know, Blacks had to go to.	23:59
-	Oh really?	24:03
-	Oh, we could shop at any of the stores.	24:04
	The only thing, you know, we just couldn't eat at,	24:08
	you know, any place we wanted to.	24:13
	Now just like the little restaurant that I worked at here,	24:16
	you know, Blacks couldn't come in, sit down and eat.	24:21
-	At the restaurant where you worked?	24:24
-	Yes, and that was the time that I was working there,	24:25
	Blacks couldn't come in and sit down and eat.	24:32
-	Now that restaurant,	24:34
	I just want to go back to the year that that was,	24:35
	that was in the early 60s?	24:38
-	Right.	24:42
-	Okay.
-	And I can't remember what year I stopped working there.	24:44
	I think it was	24:48
	in the 60s when I stopped working there.	24:53
-	What did you make of it	24:57
	when you worked there,	25:01
	that they wouldn't allow Black customers to come?	25:01
-	What did I think of it?	25:07
-	Yeah.
-	Well I felt bad.	25:11
	I'm working there and they couldn't come in.	25:13
-	Were you waitressing?	25:17
	Is that what you were-	25:18
-	No, I was helping cook.	25:19
-	Oh, uh huh.	25:22
-	And then, you know, we still had to take orders.	25:23
-	Right.	25:26
-	You know, like Blacks had to come to the window	25:27
	on the outside,	25:31
	come back to the back door,	25:34
	and we wait on 'em,	25:37
	and it made me feel bad.	25:39
-	Did they ever say anything to you or did you ever say?	25:44
-	Never did.	25:47
-	Really?	25:48
-	My brother came down one weekend,	25:51
	this is my parents' son that raised me.	25:57
	He came down from Virginia and he was on his way back,	26:03
	and he stopped to tell me goodbye.	26:07
	And he came in and sit down,	26:10
	and drank the soda and talk to me.	26:15
	And nobody said anything to him.	26:17
-	Really?	26:20
	Is that because they knew that he was your brother?	26:21
-	Yes.	26:24
-	So they just-	26:24
-	I guess, passed it over.	26:25
-	They let it go.
-	Right.	26:27
	(both laugh)
	Were you nervous when he first walked	26:29
	in the door?	26:31
-	I was.
	I was nervous. (Emily laughs)	26:32
-	And he knew what he was doing?	26:35
-	Yeah.	26:36
	(both laugh)
	Nothing never was said.	26:44
-	Really?	26:45
	Interesting.	26:49
	So what was it like when things started changing?	27:00
-	It was exciting.	27:06
	We got to go into the restaurants to eat,	27:09
	and you would be a little nervous,	27:14
	but, it soon passed over.	27:20
-	Yeah.	27:22
-	After a while.	27:23
-	Did you ever go in with White friends?	27:26
-	No, not at the time.	27:32
-	Oh, that just made me think, actually.	27:37
-	I think when I really started going in was,	27:39
	a friend of mine, we would go to Chapel Hill.	27:42
-	And you'd go to places there together.	27:48
-	Right.	27:50
-	Was that fun?	27:52
-	It was fun.	27:53
-	Was it a, sort of a new thing to do together?	27:56
-	Yes.	27:58
-	So, and this gets back to something	28:10
	we had just talked about earlier, is, you know,	28:13
	in the same way that when you were with your White friends	28:16
	and you'd go to movies, you'd go upstairs.	28:18
	I mean, were there ever times that you could think of	28:20
	when you might have been together,	28:24
	you wanted to go get a soda,	28:26
	I mean was, and you couldn't together	28:28
	or you'd go to separate you know.	28:31
	Were there ever-	28:34
-	Most of the time
	we would get our sodas or popcorn	28:35
	or candy before we went in to sit down.	28:40
-	Oh, in the movies.	28:43
-	Right.	28:44
-	What about if you wanted to go to a restaurant together?	28:46
	was that just something you sort of knew	28:49
	was out of the question?	28:51
-	Well, like if I was with my friend's parents,	28:53
	we would always get something	28:59
	to eat after we'd leave the movie.	29:01
	You know, they would stop and go in	29:05
	and get it and bring it back to the car.	29:06
	We would all eat in the car.	29:08
-	I see, so you'd stay in there.	29:10
-	Right.	29:11
-	And the friend sounds like	29:15
	they would just prefer to eat in the car with you.	29:16
-	Right.	29:17
-	And I mean, obviously they weren't going to,	29:18
	I guess they wouldn't leave you in the-	29:19
-	Right.	29:21
-	They just sort of knew that that's what you did.	29:22
-	Right.	29:23
-	That makes sense.	29:29
	There's something, one other little thing	29:32
	I was going to ask you about that.	29:34
	Oh, but as far as shopping was concerned for clothes	29:38
	or groceries or whatever, doing any kind of business.	29:41
-	We could go to any grocery store, any clothing store.	29:44
-	And so Whites and Blacks went to those stores.	29:50
-	Right, right.	29:52
-	Around here.
-	Right.	29:54
-	So do you ever remember any incidents	29:57
	besides at the high school,	30:00
	when you were away in Virginia	30:02
	and you heard about that incident?	30:04
-	Let me see.	30:05
-	When you were younger.	30:06
	I mean, even, you know, well go ahead.	30:09
-	I know during that time of integration,	30:15
	they used to have a lot of meetings,	30:19
	and it would make you real nervous.	30:22
	Because you didn't know what was going to happen.	30:25
-	Who would have-	30:27
-	You know, they would
	have meetings at night.	30:28
	I think the Klansman was involved then.	30:30
-	Oh.	30:35
-	And they would have a lot of meetings,	30:41
	but then a friend of mine,	30:47
	he had papers burned in his mailbox.	30:52
-	He was Black?	30:58
-	Right.	30:59
	And I think two of his sons was chosen to ride school bus,	31:01
	and nothing never happened on the bus.	31:09
-	Hmm.	31:16
	So it still sounds like it was a time when-	31:17
-	I think, after they had the bad	31:21
	incident at school,	31:26
	everything leveled off.	31:27
-	Really?	31:29
	That was sort of it, and then people decided that-	31:37
-	Right.	31:39
	It was so bad until some of the guys had to go to prison.	31:41
-	White, the White guy,	31:45
	who had to go to prison?	31:46
-	The Black.
-	Why?	31:49
-	I know two of the Black guys that went to prison.	31:50
-	Why did they go to prison?	31:54
	What had they done?	31:55
-	I can't remember what they done to the guy at school	31:57
	during a fight.	32:01
-	Oh, so they got in a fight	32:02
	and they hurt a White student.	32:03
-	Mm hm hm.
-	And so these Black students had to go to prison.	32:07
	Were there White students who had to go to prison?	32:09
-	The Black.	32:11
-	How did people react to that in the community?	32:16
-	Well, I don't think too much was said.	32:21
	Everybody was sort of quiet.	32:25
-	And then after that, you're saying that	32:29
	people just started to accept this?	32:32
-	Right.	32:34
	Is that what happened?	32:35
-	Right.
-	After this big blow up.	32:36
-	Right.
-	And you knew the two guys that had to go	32:41
	to jail.	32:42
-	Mm hm.
-	Did you ever get to talk to them, or?	32:44
-	No, I didn't.	32:46
-	Do you remember what the signs and symbols	33:07
	of Jim Crow were in the community?	33:11
	Do you know what I mean?	33:15
	Do you know what I mean when I say Jim Crow,	33:20
	the kind of signs that might say, you know,	33:22
	colored only, or Whites only, or, you know,	33:28
	and I know that that was,	33:33
	they were there in some way at the movie theater,	33:34
	or at the restaurants that you talked about.	33:38
	Can you think of any other sort of	33:40
	signs of segregation that you-	33:42
-	You mean at that time?	33:45
-	Yeah, or like riding in the back of the bus or.	33:46
-	At that time when I was small, real young,	33:51
	I didn't pay too much attention to it.	33:57
	I think today, if I would see it, it would,	34:07
	I would feel bad about it.	34:12
-	Yeah,	34:19
	but at the time it just, it didn't-	34:22
-	At the time,	34:24
	it didn't bother me.	34:26
-	Well, it also sounds like,	34:31
	your community was comfortable.	34:34
-	It was, it was real comfortable.	34:36
-	And it sounds like just from what you described	34:39
	that it was peaceful.	34:40
-	It was.	34:42
-	Which is wonderful.	34:44
-	We've never had anybody, you know, to bother us.	34:46
-	Mm hm.	34:49
-	I wonder if that made it,	34:55
	and correct me if I'm wrong, I mean,	34:58
	I wonder if it made it particularly surprising	34:59
	when you were at Duke, and you shifted from	35:02
	working the night shift to the morning shift.	35:05
-	It did.	35:08
-	Sort of.	35:09
-	It wasn't a good feeling.	35:11
-	And again, it sounds like it was something	35:17
	that you actually hadn't experienced a whole lot.	35:18
-	I hadn't, because I was at the point	35:20
	where I didn't want to go to work.	35:23
-	Really?	35:25
-	And I think I stayed out a couple of days.	35:26
-	Because of the way they treated you?	35:28
-	Right.	35:29
-	Did you ever talk to anybody about it?	35:30
	Did you ever know to I mean,	35:32
	it's a fly. (laughs)	35:35
-	I talked to a couple of the office people about it,	35:36
	you know, that started to work there, after,	35:41
	we went to daytime.	35:47
-	Office people, you mean supervisors or-	35:50
-	No.	35:52
	Some of the secretaries and	35:55
	my friend, Susan that worked in reference.	35:58
-	And what would you tell them?	36:02
	I mean, just-	36:04
-	I told them how we were treated	36:05
	when we went to daytime to work.	36:08
-	And how-	36:12
-	And they said, we don't know why they	36:13
	want to treat you all that way.	36:15
	But we hated to have to work around them.	36:26
	We try to, like, we go in at five o'clock,	36:31
	we would try to rush and get through with the work,	36:34
	so we wouldn't be around 'em when they	36:37
	coming in in the morning.	36:39
-	Wow.	36:41
-	'Cause they start coming in some like seven o'clock,	36:43
	7:30, eight o'clock, and we tried to be out of their way.	36:45
-	So you wouldn't have to-	36:51
-	Right.
-	Yeah, but now it's not like that.	36:53
	After a while it got better.	36:56
-	That's good.	36:57
	(both laugh)
-	Yeah.	36:58
-	And they were the same way in divinity school too.	37:07
-	When did you work at the,	37:12
	What do you mean by they were the same way	37:14
	at the divinity school?	37:16
-	No, some of
	my friends work in divinity school.	37:17
-	Oh, and they got the same treatment?	37:20
-	Right.	37:21
-	So this was a campus-wide policy	37:24
	to get the people working night shift.	37:26
-	Right.	37:29
-	To work instead from 5:00 am to 1:30	37:29
-	Right.	37:32
-	And it also so happened again that	37:34
	all the people working night shift	37:35
	were Black.	37:37
-	Right, right.
-	And the, sort of-	37:38
-	We have a few White Blacks now work	37:39
	in housekeeping.	37:44
	I remember when we was working nights,	37:49
	and my supervisor had hired this lady and she was White.	37:53
	So she had waited	37:59
	about three nights and the lady hadn't come into work.	38:05
	So she called to the ladies house one night and asked her,	38:09
	did she still want the job.	38:14
	And the lady said, "Yes, I want it," said,	38:18
	"I'll be to work."	38:21
	And her husband in the background said, "No,	38:22
	"you're not going out there and work	38:26
	"with all those Black people."	38:27
-	Wow.	38:30
-	And he said it loud enough that I could hear it.	38:32
-	You heard it?	38:35
-	I heard it.	38:36
-	I thought it was in super,
	so it was you that called her?	38:37
-	No, no, my supervisor called.	38:38
-	But you were there next to her.	38:40
-	Right.	38:42
-	And you could hear him,	38:43
	through the phone.	38:43
-	I could hear him
	through the phone.	38:44
-	Oh, so what did the supervisor say when that happened?	38:46
-	So she said, "Well, I just have to hunt	38:49
	"for somebody else."	38:51
-	And that was a few years ago?	38:53
-	That was, we were working nights then.	38:55
-	Oh, so probably in the-	38:58
-	That was in, the early 80s.	39:00
-	Wow.	39:03
	(both laugh)	39:04
-	And then you had a daughter.	39:16
	Is that right, you have a daughter?	39:18
-	Daughter-in-law.	39:19
-	Daughter-in-law, oh, okay.	39:20
	So the grandchildren that you have and-	39:22
-	Right	39:24
-	It's your daughter-in-law.	39:24
-	Right.	39:25
-	And your one of your sons?	39:26
-	Right, my youngest son.	39:27
-	Oh, okay.
	So you didn't have any children with Mr. Scarborough?	39:30
-	No.	39:32
-	No.
	Do you want to tell me anything about him	39:36
	or your marriage with him	39:39
	or how you met?	39:41
	You don't have to it's up to you.	39:44
-	Now he was a nice man when we first met.	39:48
	He was nice while we were dating.	39:51
	The first year we were married,	39:55
	he was good, but the other two was bad.	39:56
	So he wanted to move back to Durham.	40:02
	And I was going to live up here because I had my own house.	40:07
	And so we just, broke up.	40:14
-	I had been knowing his brother for some time,	40:31
	and that's how I met-	40:35
-	Mr. Scarborough.	40:39
-	Right.
	And then you married at Lincoln Baptist?	40:41
-	Right.	40:44
-	He had, I guess told someone on the project	40:46
	when he was interviewed, that he had,	40:50
	I guess grown up on a plantation.	40:54
	And there was some question about whether that	40:57
	was the case or not.	41:00
-	I don't know.	41:04
	When we would be dating, and while we were married,	41:06
	he never told me he was on a plantation.	41:09
-	Oh really?	41:13
	So. (laughs)	41:14
-	It didn't look like a plantation when I went with him.	41:15
-	Oh really?	41:18
-	To South Carolina.
-	Oh.	41:20
	(both laugh)
	What'd it look like?	41:21
-	Look like everybody was, you know, together.	41:25
-	What do you mean everybody was together?	41:31
-	Well, I know in South Carolina,	41:32
	it was rougher there, I think, than it was up here.	41:37
-	As far as-	41:41
-	In North Carolina.
-	Right, right	41:42
-	Segregation and racism and.
-	But I don't think it was that hard on Scarborough.	41:46
-	Really?	41:52
-	You know, after he grew up.	41:53
-	And you don't think it was a plantation that he-	41:57
-	It could have been, but,	42:00
	I know Scarborough's got some age on him,	42:04
	but I don't think it was like he said at that time.	42:06
-	Yeah.	42:13
-	Because I got to know all of his family in South Carolina.	42:17
-	And it didn't sound like that's what they had come from?	42:24
-	They didn't look like they had been abused to me.	42:26
-	Is that what he had told you about his growing up?	42:31
-	Oh, he never told me, you know,	42:36
	that they were treated bad.	42:38
-	You mean by Whites?	42:40
-	Right.	42:41
-	He never told you that?	42:44
-	Uh-uh. (both chuckle)	42:45
	It could be something that, you know, he didn't tell me.	42:56
-	Yeah, yeah.	42:58
	Something you said, just struck me.	43:02
	When you said that you knew that,	43:05
	you thought that things might be worse,	43:06
	might have been worse in South Carolina	43:09
	than they were in North Carolina or at least where you were.	43:11
	How much information did you have	43:15
	or how aware were you of,	43:18
	I don't know, segregation or racism	43:22
	in other parts of the South?	43:25
-	I always heard down South was real bad.	43:27
-	Oh.	43:32
-	I've read it, and then, you know,	43:35
	like I have friends where we are friends now,	43:39
	that moved here from Mississippi and Alabama.	43:45
	When I was in school,	43:51
	they said it was bad.	43:55
	It was rough in Mississippi and Alabama.	43:56
	And they came up here and didn't have money to get houses.	44:01
	So they worked at a stage mill here in Hillsborough,	44:07
	at the time it was called, yes Stage Mill,	44:12
	but it was a lumber plant.	44:16
	And the women worked just work just like the mems	44:19
	at that lumber yard.	44:24
	And they work long enough to get them tents	44:26
	to put up and live in, until they were able, you know,	44:30
	to get them somewhere else to stay.	44:34
	And they said it was rough living	44:37
	down in Mississippi and Alabama,	44:39
	and they was born and raised down there.	44:42
-	It was worse.	44:47
-	It was a lot worse.	44:47
-	It was worse than those conditions	44:49
	that they moved up to.	44:51
-	Right.	44:52
-	Where they were staying in tents.	44:53
-	Right.	44:55
-	So they are all still here now, the ones that's living,	44:59
	and they said they would never go back down to Mississippi	45:02
	and Alabama to live.	45:07
-	Even now?	45:08
-	Right.	45:09
-	Yeah.	45:10
	Did you have any way of understanding or,	45:22
	I mean, how did you make sense of the fact that things	45:29
	were worse there than they were here?	45:32
-	It made me think that the White people	45:34
	was mean to them and they worked hard,	45:38
	even harder than the people up here.	45:47
	Didn't get very much money,	45:51
	which I don't guess at that time,	45:54
	our parents got very much money up here for working.	45:56
	But it seemed like it was better living condition up here.	46:01
-	In terms of?	46:06
-	Oh, oh,	46:09
	not being abused on your job.	46:14
-	By Whites?	46:17
-	Right.	46:18
-	Who would your parents sell their produce to?	46:24
	Who did they work with as far as, you know,	46:28
	as far as their own business interactions?	46:35
-	Oh, my daddy, oh.	46:39

Kate Ellis	Okay. Your father would, oh, let me just say one thing. I'm going to just do that thing again. Just, this is Kate Ellis interviewing Emily Willette McCandies on June 8th, 1994. This is tape two. Okay. You were just telling me about what your father, he raised tobacco?	0:01
Emily Willette McCandies	Tobacco, corn, and wheat in his gardens. At the time then, when I was a little girl, they didn't have what you call deep freezers to put your food in. My mother would can all the vegetables. They even had cows for milk and butter. They had yard chickens for eggs. My mother done all canning. She canned all the vegetables, the hog meat. They would cure it out at home. The sausage, my mother would can it and they would even make bags to stuff sausage in and sometime they would sell some of their hog meat.	0:28
Kate Ellis	They largely lived off of what they produced themselves.	1:35
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	1:40
Kate Ellis	I see. There wasn't a lot of trading or selling?	1:40
Emily Willette McCandies	No.	1:46
Kate Ellis	Oh, okay.	1:46
Emily Willette McCandies	I think when I was too young to remember, I think they would do trading milk and butter or eggs for something, maybe like a hand. I was told when I was a baby, they had stamps that you had to buy shoes with. Stamps to get sugar, stamps to buy gas to go in the car.	1:49
Kate Ellis	This is what they had?	2:28
Emily Willette McCandies	Yes, but that I was too young to remember that.	2:30
Kate Ellis	I see. Right. That was really early on in your life.	2:33
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	2:38
Kate Ellis	Well, why don't we move on to the forms then since it looks like we've been talking for about an hour and a half.	2:43
Emily Willette McCandies	Okay.	2:52
Kate Ellis	This will take us a bit longer to do, and if you think of anything that I don't know I haven't asked you that seems pertinent to what we've been talking about, let me know.	2:54
Emily Willette McCandies	Okay.	3:10
Kate Ellis	Some of this stuff I'll just fill in as we go along. Still have glasses on. What is your date of birth?	3:15
Emily Willette McCandies	Fourth month, fifth day, 36.	3:37
Kate Ellis	Okay, perfect. Your place of birth, the city was?	3:44
Emily Willette McCandies	Cedar Grove.	3:55
Kate Ellis	Were you born at home?	4:01
Emily Willette McCandies	That's in Orange County. At home.	4:02
Kate Ellis	North Carolina?	4:12
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	4:14
Kate Ellis	What have been the principle occupations, the main places that you've worked in your life? What would number one be?	4:19
Emily Willette McCandies	Babysitting.	4:34
Kate Ellis	Okay. Let me just make sure. The number one thing, I mean the primary one wouldn't be housekeeping at Duke? No.	4:36
Emily Willette McCandies	No.	4:46
Kate Ellis	This was the one that was most important. I guess that's what I mean. What were the most important occupations.	4:49
Emily Willette McCandies	When I first started out working was babysitting.	4:54
Kate Ellis	Right.	4:58
Emily Willette McCandies	Working at the restaurant here in Hillsborough and from there I worked a short while in Chapel Hill working with a private patient.	5:01
Kate Ellis	Okay. I think what they're asking, what this is asking isn't what the first one was or the second one, but what have been the most important ones?	5:19
Emily Willette McCandies	The nursing home.	5:37
Kate Ellis	Okay. You were an assistant to a physical therapist?	5:38
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	6:15
Kate Ellis	Assistant to physical therapist in nursing home. Then what will be the second most important or job that you've had or place that you've worked?	6:15
Emily Willette McCandies	Duke University.	6:22
Kate Ellis	Okay. What do you call your job?	6:25
Emily Willette McCandies	Housekeeping.	6:30
Kate Ellis	Okay. What about the third most important?	6:31
Emily Willette McCandies	Let me see. I worked as a nurse's assistant too, at the nursing home.	6:47
Kate Ellis	Okay. That would be the third for most important?	7:05
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	7:06
Kate Ellis	Okay. At that same nursing home?	7:09
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	7:10
Kate Ellis	Nursing home. Okay. Where is my pen? Think this pen is dead. Guess I can use the blue one still. Okay. Your maiden name is McCandies. Okay. How would you like your name to appear in written materials? Starting with your first name and if you have a nickname or how would you like your name to appear exactly?	7:10
Emily Willette McCandies	Emily Willette.	8:23
Kate Ellis	McCandies?	8:23
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	8:23
Kate Ellis	Just go like that. Okay. Your date of birth is?	8:43
Emily Willette McCandies	Fourth, fifth 36.	8:56
Kate Ellis	Again, it was Cedar?	9:01
Emily Willette McCandies	Grove.	9:03
Kate Ellis	Grove.	9:05
Emily Willette McCandies	Orange.	9:10
Kate Ellis	Let me see. Are you currently single, married, divorced, widowed?	9:14
Emily Willette McCandies	Divorced.	9:23
Kate Ellis	Okay. Now this is about your parents, your mother's name?	9:26
Emily Willette McCandies	You want my real mother or the parents that raised me?	9:39
Kate Ellis	I guess I would say in a sense, I would say whoever you feel closest to as your parents. I mean, it sounds like—	9:47
Emily Willette McCandies	I would think it would be the parents that raised me.	9:57
Kate Ellis	Why don't we say that then?	9:59
Emily Willette McCandies	Okay. Johnnie.	10:01
Kate Ellis	Johnnie? Is that J-O-H?	10:02
Emily Willette McCandies	N-N-I-E.	10:05
Kate Ellis	This is your mother.	10:08
Emily Willette McCandies	That's my father. Oh. Mother's name.	10:09
Kate Ellis	Some mother's names, I mean, some women do have the names.	10:13
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	10:16
Kate Ellis	Let me just write that while I remember. Okay. Your mother's name?	10:17
Emily Willette McCandies	Katie.	10:19
Kate Ellis	Oh really? Is that K-A-T?	10:20
Emily Willette McCandies	I-E.	10:22
Kate Ellis	That's how I spell my name. Katie.	10:24
Emily Willette McCandies	May McCandies.	10:28
Kate Ellis	It's a nice name if I do say so myself. Do you know her maiden name?	10:31
Emily Willette McCandies	Compton.	10:39
Kate Ellis	C-O-M-P-T-O-N?	10:41
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	10:43
Kate Ellis	what's her date of birth?	10:47
Emily Willette McCandies	What's her date?	10:49
Kate Ellis	Of birth.	10:50
Emily Willette McCandies	She was 85 years old when she died.	10:55
Kate Ellis	When did she die?	10:58
Emily Willette McCandies	Oh, the 24th of October in 85.	11:01
Kate Ellis	In 1985 so she was born in 1900, I guess.	11:12
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	11:17
Kate Ellis	Okay. You don't know when she was born in 1900?	11:18
Emily Willette McCandies	No, I don't.	11:21
Kate Ellis	Okay. Do you know where she was born? Her place of birth?	11:26
Emily Willette McCandies	I think it was Caswell County.	11:28
Kate Ellis	Caswell. Is that C-A-S-W?	11:34
Emily Willette McCandies	W-E-L-L.	11:36
Kate Ellis	North Carolina.	11:41
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	11:42
Kate Ellis	You don't know the town?	11:42
Emily Willette McCandies	Prospect Hill.	11:49
Kate Ellis	It's Prospect Hill. Okay. What was her occupation?	11:50
Emily Willette McCandies	Housewife and farming.	12:01
Kate Ellis	And farmer. You mentioned that she helped people in their homes sometimes?	12:09
Emily Willette McCandies	That was like when the ladies had babies, she would go and she was what? A midwife.	12:18
Kate Ellis	Oh really? That's that's neat. Wow. Housewife and farmer. Can I put down and midwife? Does that sound?	12:34
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	12:41
Kate Ellis	She helped as a midwife in your community.	12:44
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	12:48
Kate Ellis	Wow. I bet a lot of people felt attached to her.	12:49
Emily Willette McCandies	They did. A lot of people know her.	12:53
Kate Ellis	Really? Was she well-respected?	12:56
Emily Willette McCandies	She was. Then after she retired and a little while before she kept foster children too.	12:59
Kate Ellis	Oh, did she? Wow. Okay. Your father's name, Johnnie?	13:11
Emily Willette McCandies	Johnnie McCandies.	13:19
Kate Ellis	Did he have a middle name?	13:22
Emily Willette McCandies	I don't think so.	13:23
Kate Ellis	I don't have a middle name which surprises people sometimes. Don't know why. Do you know his date of birth?	13:26
Emily Willette McCandies	No, I don't. His was in 1900s too. He was 85 when he died.	13:38
Kate Ellis	He died?	13:46
Emily Willette McCandies	In 83. 1983.	13:47
Kate Ellis	He was 85. So he was born in 1898?	13:52
Emily Willette McCandies	Yeah.	13:56
Kate Ellis	I think that's—	13:56
Emily Willette McCandies	Yeah, that's it.	13:57
Kate Ellis	If he was 85 when he died. Okay. Do you remember when he died?	14:01
Emily Willette McCandies	He died July, I think it was July the 20th.	14:07
Kate Ellis	1983. Where was he born?	14:12
Emily Willette McCandies	He was born in Caswell County too. Prospect Hill.	14:23
Kate Ellis	His occupation?	14:43
Emily Willette McCandies	Farming.	14:45
Kate Ellis	Okay. Can I have the full name of your brothers and sisters?	14:52
Emily Willette McCandies	Okay. I'll start with my oldest brother.	15:02
Kate Ellis	Okay.	15:09
Emily Willette McCandies	Melvin Ray Chrisp.	15:10
Kate Ellis	Melvin Ray Chrisp.	15:22
Emily Willette McCandies	We were half brother and sister.	15:24
Kate Ellis	Okay. Half brother and sister. He was—	15:27
Emily Willette McCandies	My mother had him out of wedlock.	15:34
Kate Ellis	Okay. Okay. What was his last name?	15:36
Emily Willette McCandies	My brother?	15:44
Kate Ellis	His last name was?	15:45
Emily Willette McCandies	Chrisp.	15:46
Kate Ellis	Oh, it was. K-H? I mean C-H-R?	15:46
Emily Willette McCandies	C-H-R-I-S-P.	15:49
Kate Ellis	Oh, S-P. I didn't get Chrisp. Okay. Melvin Ray Chrisp. He's your oldest brother. I'll put one here because I want, okay, so firstborn.	15:51
Emily Willette McCandies	Okay. He's deceased.	16:02
Kate Ellis	Okay. Do you remember when he was born?	16:08
Emily Willette McCandies	No, I don't.	16:13
Kate Ellis	Okay. Do you remember how old he was when he died?	16:16
Emily Willette McCandies	He was somewhere like 50. He was in his fifties.	16:21
Kate Ellis	He died?	16:27
Emily Willette McCandies	I think he was about 53.	16:27
Kate Ellis	Do you remember when he died?	16:29
Emily Willette McCandies	He died in 1969.	16:32
Kate Ellis	Do you know how he died?	16:34
Emily Willette McCandies	Heart attack.	16:40
Kate Ellis	Okay. Maybe he was born, I'm going to say the 1910 or something.	16:40
Emily Willette McCandies	Probably.	16:52
Kate Ellis	Was in his fifties and	16:53
Emily Willette McCandies	He died in 69,	16:54
Kate Ellis	Maybe 19 teens. Okay. I'll just say, I'll put a question mark by that one.	16:54
Emily Willette McCandies	Probably 19 in the early, probably in the twenties.	17:03
Kate Ellis	Okay. I'll say—	17:07
Emily Willette McCandies	Or early thirties.	17:14
Kate Ellis	Okay. I'll say 1920s. Do you remember where he was born?	17:24
Emily Willette McCandies	I think he was born in Orange County.	17:28
Kate Ellis	Okay. I'm going to put here, let's put half brother. Okay.	17:38
Emily Willette McCandies	William.	17:50
Kate Ellis	Is this the second oldest?	17:52
Emily Willette McCandies	Right. Hassell.	17:53
Kate Ellis	How do you spell that?	18:00
Emily Willette McCandies	H-A-S-S-E-L-L. Chrisp.	18:01
Kate Ellis	Is he still alive?	18:11
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	18:12
Kate Ellis	Would you guess he was born in, how old is he now?	18:15
Emily Willette McCandies	He's 61.	18:17
Kate Ellis	So, 1920, 1923. We're in '94. Oh no, '33.	18:19
Emily Willette McCandies	He was born in the 30's. Yeah.	18:31
Kate Ellis	You're right. Hello. 1933. Okay. Okay. Where was he born?	18:32
Emily Willette McCandies	He was born in Orange County.	18:42
Kate Ellis	Is he a full brother?	18:44
Emily Willette McCandies	Half.	18:48
Kate Ellis	He's a half brother by your mother as well?	18:50
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh. I'm next.	18:52
Kate Ellis	That's you. Okay. Then go ahead.	19:02
Emily Willette McCandies	My sister?	19:08
Kate Ellis	Yeah, the next one down.	19:09
Emily Willette McCandies	Okay, so you don't need me.	19:12
Kate Ellis	I don't need you. It's just your sisters and brothers.	19:15
Emily Willette McCandies	Okay. Annie Pearl.	19:16
Kate Ellis	Annie Pearl.	19:18
Emily Willette McCandies	McCandies.	19:26
Kate Ellis	She's still living?	19:34
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	19:35
Kate Ellis	How old is she?	19:36
Emily Willette McCandies	Oh, she's 50. She's 55.	19:37
Kate Ellis	She was born in 19, so she's like 1939?	19:42
Emily Willette McCandies	Yeah.	19:50
Kate Ellis	Okay. Where was she born?	19:51
Emily Willette McCandies	Orange County.	19:58
Kate Ellis	She's a full sister?	20:07
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	20:08
Kate Ellis	Okay.	20:10
Emily Willette McCandies	That's all.	20:10
Kate Ellis	Okay. The only thing I'm debating here is you had brothers and sister, I mean, officially they're cousins, but they were like brothers and sisters to you.	20:12
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	20:26
Kate Ellis	I know what I'll do. Let me just do this. I just want to make it clear that these are the parents that you were raised by.	20:28
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	20:34
Kate Ellis	Okay. Now can you tell me the names of your children?	21:43
Emily Willette McCandies	My children? Dwight.	21:50
Kate Ellis	Dwight. This is his oldest son.	21:51
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	21:53
Kate Ellis	Dwight.	21:54
Emily Willette McCandies	Edward.	21:55
Kate Ellis	Edward.	21:55
Emily Willette McCandies	McCandies.	22:00
Kate Ellis	He was born, what's his birthday?	22:05
Emily Willette McCandies	January the 14th in 56.	22:07
Kate Ellis	Where was he born?	22:15
Emily Willette McCandies	Durham County.	22:17
Kate Ellis	Okay.	22:24
Emily Willette McCandies	James. Carlon, C-A-R-L-O-N McCandies. He was born July 26th in 57.	22:26
Kate Ellis	Okay. Durham County?	22:51
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	22:57
Kate Ellis	Okay. That's it for children, right?	23:02
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	23:04
Kate Ellis	Oh, grandchildren, you've got how many grandchildren?	23:05
Emily Willette McCandies	Six.	23:09
Kate Ellis	Okay. Two are living with you right now?	23:11
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	23:14
Kate Ellis	Okay.	23:14
Emily Willette McCandies	You want my oldest son's children first?	23:16
Kate Ellis	They actually don't ask for that. They just want to know how many you have.	23:19
Emily Willette McCandies	I have six.	23:22
Kate Ellis	How many does Dwight have? The oldest one.	23:23
Emily Willette McCandies	Three.	23:25
Kate Ellis	By the same woman or?	23:27
Emily Willette McCandies	Same one.	23:28
Kate Ellis	Is he married?	23:29
Emily Willette McCandies	He's divorced.	23:30
Kate Ellis	He's divorced. Okay and then James?	23:31
Emily Willette McCandies	James. Three.	23:33
Kate Ellis	Has three. You are with two, so where's the—	23:34
Emily Willette McCandies	I'm with three.	23:38
Kate Ellis	Oh, you're with three?	23:39
Emily Willette McCandies	Yeah. I forget about the baby.	23:40
Kate Ellis	Oh, okay. There was a baby there too. Okay. There's six of you in the house right now?	23:46
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	23:47
Kate Ellis	Okay. This says please list below the places where you have lived and the dates. Where you first lived was Cedar Grove?	23:52
Emily Willette McCandies	Cedar Grove.	24:07
Kate Ellis	Is that right?	24:07
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	24:07
Kate Ellis	Cedar Grove. Which was in, what's it called? Alamance.	24:10
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	24:13
Kate Ellis	Can you spell that for me?	24:17
Emily Willette McCandies	A-L-A-M-A-N-C-E.	24:20
Kate Ellis	From when you were born?	24:28
Emily Willette McCandies	From birth till, I guess I was about five or six years old. I would say five years old.	24:31
Kate Ellis	Okay. Guess I'm going to say from 1936 to 1941.	24:47
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	24:51
Kate Ellis	Okay. Then?	24:54
Emily Willette McCandies	To Hillsborough.	24:56
Kate Ellis	What county is this?	25:06
Emily Willette McCandies	Orange.	25:07
Kate Ellis	All right. From 1941 to, there was a period when you moved to your brother's?	25:08
Emily Willette McCandies	Yeah.	25:22
Kate Ellis	Do you remember what year that was?	25:24
Emily Willette McCandies	I think it was in 56. Yeah, it was in 1956.	25:25
Kate Ellis	Okay. Then?	25:37
Emily Willette McCandies	I stayed.	25:37
Kate Ellis	From a 1941 to 1956, you were in Hillsborough and then went back to Cedar?	25:39
Emily Willette McCandies	In '57 I was, let's see, yeah. To 1956, then to 57 I came back to Hillsborough.	25:43
Kate Ellis	Okay, so you were in Cedar Grove for about a year?	25:55
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	25:57
Kate Ellis	Okay. 1956 to 1957, then Hillsborough from 1957 till today.	25:57
Emily Willette McCandies	Today.	26:24
Kate Ellis	Okay. Can you tell me the names of your schools?	26:29
Emily Willette McCandies	The first little school I went to went there for about two years. They call it Flat Rock.	26:38
Kate Ellis	Black Rock?	26:44
Emily Willette McCandies	Flat. F-L-A-T.	26:45
Kate Ellis	Oh, flat. Okay. That was, was that in Hillsborough?	26:45
Emily Willette McCandies	It's out in the rural area.	27:00
Kate Ellis	Called?	27:01
Emily Willette McCandies	It's on New Sharon Church Road.	27:04
Kate Ellis	Okay, so it's not in Hillsborough?	27:10
Emily Willette McCandies	Well, it's between where I live now and the town of Hillsborough.	27:12
Kate Ellis	Can we call it Hillsborough?	27:17
Emily Willette McCandies	It's still Hillsborough. Right.	27:19
Kate Ellis	Okay. That was from 1941 to 1943. Does that sound right?	27:28
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	27:32
Kate Ellis	That was kindergarten to second grade.	27:32
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	27:41
Kate Ellis	Okay. Then?	27:45
Emily Willette McCandies	To Hillsborough to Central.	27:48
Kate Ellis	It's called oh, right. Hillsborough Central in Hillsborough from 1943?	27:51
Emily Willette McCandies	To 1955.	28:10
Kate Ellis	You got a high school diploma.	28:14
Emily Willette McCandies	Yes, I did.	28:17
Kate Ellis	Okay, great. That's it, right?	28:25
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	28:29
Kate Ellis	Okay. This says list interviewee's current and most important previous jobs. The current job is housekeeper at Duke University Durham. You started what year?	28:33
Emily Willette McCandies	In 1950.	29:01
Kate Ellis	Wait, 19?	29:04
Emily Willette McCandies	I mean 1975.	29:05
Kate Ellis	Okay. To present. Then, is this again, list the most important jobs before this job. You don't have to list all of the jobs if they didn't seem that important to you. What was the job before housekeeper?	29:07
Emily Willette McCandies	The nursing home.	29:26
Kate Ellis	Okay, which was?	29:28
Emily Willette McCandies	Physical therapy.	29:29
Kate Ellis	Okay.	29:37
Emily Willette McCandies	Then to nurse's assistant. The same job, same place.	29:38
Kate Ellis	Okay. I'll say physical therapy assistant and nurse's assistant.	29:43
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	29:46
Kate Ellis	Then what's the name of the nursing home?	29:54
Emily Willette McCandies	At the time it was Hill Haven Orange.	29:56
Kate Ellis	Hill Haven?	30:00
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	30:01
Kate Ellis	Is that one word or two? Was it Hill and then Haven?	30:02
Emily Willette McCandies	It was two, I think.	30:10
Kate Ellis	Okay. Hill Haven—	30:12
Emily Willette McCandies	Orange.	30:15
Kate Ellis	Hill Haven Orange Nursing Home. Is that what it is?	30:16
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	30:22
Kate Ellis	Nursing Home.	30:25
Emily Willette McCandies	It's named something else now but that was the name when I was working there.	30:28
Kate Ellis	Okay. Where was that?	30:32
Emily Willette McCandies	In Orange County.	30:36
Kate Ellis	What was the dates that you were there?	30:43
Emily Willette McCandies	I started there, I think it was 71, I think.	30:47
Kate Ellis	Okay. 1971.	30:56
Emily Willette McCandies	I quit early 74.	31:00
Kate Ellis	Okay. Sorry, go ahead.	31:06
Emily Willette McCandies	Let's see. I worked at the restaurant here in Hillsborough.	31:15
Kate Ellis	Okay. As a cook, a waitress?	31:19
Emily Willette McCandies	Cook.	31:23
Kate Ellis	What was the name of the restaurant?	31:27
Emily Willette McCandies	Jack's Snack Shack.	31:28
Kate Ellis	Jack's Snack Shack.	31:32
Emily Willette McCandies	Uh huh.	31:34
Kate Ellis	Is that still around?	31:38
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	31:39
Kate Ellis	Cook at Jack's Snack Shack in Hillsborough.	31:40
Emily Willette McCandies	That was in the early sixties.	31:44
Kate Ellis	Early sixties.	31:51
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	31:52
Kate Ellis	Okay. Any other job that was important to you or that sort of stands out as—	31:56
Emily Willette McCandies	I worked with a private patient in his home in Chapel Hill. That was somewhere in the late sixties.	32:11
Kate Ellis	Private patient.	32:26
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	32:27
Kate Ellis	That was in, I'm sorry, you were at Chapel Hill?	32:30
Emily Willette McCandies	That was Chapel Hill.	32:31
Kate Ellis	Late sixties. That was, you were a nurse, what were you?	32:36
Emily Willette McCandies	At the time I was in training of being a physical therapist aide.	32:50
Kate Ellis	Okay, so an aide to that patient?	32:54
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	32:56
Kate Ellis	Can I say nursing aid to private patients? Does that sound right?	32:58
Emily Willette McCandies	Right.	33:01
Kate Ellis	Okay. Great. Have you ever received any awards or honors or held any offices?	33:05
Emily Willette McCandies	No, I haven't.	33:16
Kate Ellis	What is your religious denomination?	33:21
Emily Willette McCandies	Baptist.	33:24
Kate Ellis	Your current church affiliation? The name of your church?	33:29
Emily Willette McCandies	Lipscomb Grove.	33:33
Kate Ellis	How do you spell that?	33:35
Emily Willette McCandies	L-I-P-S-C-O-M-B.	33:36
Kate Ellis	Grove Baptist Church. What are the names of the other churches that you belong to?	33:40
Emily Willette McCandies	Flat Rock AME Church, Methodist Church.	34:01
Kate Ellis	It's called Flat Rock AME? AME Methodist Church or A?	34:07
Emily Willette McCandies	AME Methodist.	34:12
Kate Ellis	Okay.	34:19
Emily Willette McCandies	The little school that I first went to was named after this church.	34:19
Kate Ellis	Oh, I see. Okay. What town was that in?	34:24
Emily Willette McCandies	Still Hillsborough.	34:29
Kate Ellis	Okay. What about the Primitive Baptist?	34:42
Emily Willette McCandies	Yeah, that was my family church. I attended there too.	34:45
Kate Ellis	Okay. What was the name of that again?	34:52
Emily Willette McCandies	White Oak Grove.	35:01
Kate Ellis	White Oak Grove.	35:01
Emily Willette McCandies	Primitive Baptist.	35:02
Kate Ellis	Church.	35:10
Emily Willette McCandies	Mm-hmm.	35:10
Kate Ellis	That was in?	35:12
Emily Willette McCandies	Cedar Grove.	35:12
Kate Ellis	Okay. Are there any organizations that you belong to, like civic organizations or community or political or educational organizations that you belong to?	35:28
Emily Willette McCandies	No, not in.	35:39
Kate Ellis	Okay. Do you have any other activities or affiliations, like any particular hobbies or things that you do or groups that you're associated with?	35:47
Emily Willette McCandies	Not now.	36:03
Kate Ellis	There wasn't one? Was there something in the past that just made you think of?	36:04
Emily Willette McCandies	No, not really. Not long enough to say.	36:15
Kate Ellis	Nothing that really stands out.	36:18
Emily Willette McCandies	Huh uh.	36:20
Kate Ellis	Finally, is there any comment that you would like to make? A favorite saying or a phrase or a quote? If you don't have one, that's fine, but if there's something that you like to say or?	36:23
Emily Willette McCandies	You mean concerning what we've been over?	36:43
Kate Ellis	Yeah, or anything that you think is important. Either concerning what we've been over, or just something that you believe about life or that you think about.	36:45
Emily Willette McCandies	I think this is interesting in what we are doing.	37:02
Kate Ellis	Go ahead.	37:13
Emily Willette McCandies	What we are going over with now, and maybe one day my grandchildren can read this. I'm sorry.	37:14
Kate Ellis	Is there anything you would want your grandchildren to know about anything I've asked you that—	37:50
Emily Willette McCandies	I wish I knew more now about my grandparents, because they have often asked me about my parents and my grandparents.	37:59
Kate Ellis	Because your grandchildren have asked you?	38:18
Emily Willette McCandies	Yes.	38:19
Kate Ellis	Okay.	38:38
Emily Willette McCandies	If ever I be interviewed again, I hope I'll have more information concerning my grandparents.	38:40
Kate Ellis	Okay. Now this is the release form. This is different. This is for photographs. Sometimes we ask people if they have old photographs from when they were growing up or even of their ancestors, their grandparents, or your biological parents, or the parents that raised you. Since I'm not at your house, we didn't have a chance to look at anything like that.	39:19
Emily Willette McCandies	Well, I can show it to you who we get out to my house.	39:48
Kate Ellis	You do have photographs?	39:51
Emily Willette McCandies	I don't have any photographs of my real parents, but I do of my aunt and uncle that raised me.	39:53
Kate Ellis	Oh really? Okay, great. I'm going to put this aside just because you haven't loaned me or shown me anything. Okay. Then this is the interview agreement. Let me just put my name. Would you read, this is what the agreement part of it? Would you read this or?	40:02
Emily Willette McCandies	Yes, I will.	40:39

Item Info

Title:

Emily McCandies interview recording, 1994 June 08

Date:

June 8, 1994

Creator:

McCandies, Emily Willette

Contributor:

Ellis, Kate

Description:

Name: Emily Willette McCandies; Date of birth: 1936-04-05; Place of birth: Cedar Grove, NC; Occupation(s): housekeeping; health services; Residence: Hillsborough, NC
Informant ID: 363; Interviewed by: Kate Ellis.

Occupation:

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 327
3b90846f-602c-45c9-bc5f-f056a1a6dc18
behindtheveil
btvnc03023
ark:/87924/r4154k40f
98b17602-248b-4625-919a-de92056ec774

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Emily McCandies interview recording, 1994 June 08

Transcript

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1. Emily McCandies administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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