Emery Rann interview recording, 1993 June 17

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Rhonda Mawhood	—ask you, Dr. Rann, is how long you've lived in Charlotte?	0:01
Emery L. Rann	Since 1927. My dad came the year before, and we were still in West Virginia while he came down and cleared the way for us to come in the next year, so 1927.	0:06
Rhonda Mawhood	What did your father do?	0:33
Emery L. Rann	He was a teacher here at Smith.	0:35
Rhonda Mawhood	What did he teach?	0:41
Emery L. Rann	He was a teacher of mathematics, of English, of history and was a librarian at various times.	0:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Was he a teacher also in West Virginia?	0:59
Emery L. Rann	Yes, he had taught at Bluefield State. And one of his former co-workers had come here and recommended him to the professor, to the president, and he was brought here.	1:01
Rhonda Mawhood	How old were you when you came to Charlotte, Dr. Rann?	1:24
Emery L. Rann	12.	1:27
Rhonda Mawhood	What do you remember about West Virginia before you came?	1:30
Emery L. Rann	Very little. I've picked up quite a bit of information from going to family reunions and visiting there, but I don't know much about West Virginia except that I'm glad we moved. West Virginia is such a primitive place now as far as I'm concerned. The whole industry is coal, and it's just bottled up in that.	1:33
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you know why your parents decided to move to North Carolina?	2:19
Emery L. Rann	Well, I really don't know too much about it. I don't think dad was too happy in his work here at Bluefield. While my mother went to school there, I don't think it was very progressive at all in the education. I don't know the detailed reason for their moving or their wanting to move.	2:24
Rhonda Mawhood	How many children were there in your family, Dr. Rann?	3:10
Emery L. Rann	Four, three girls and me.	3:15
Rhonda Mawhood	Were they all born in West Virginia?	3:20
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	3:23
Rhonda Mawhood	When you moved to Charlotte, what neighborhood did you live in?	3:29
Emery L. Rann	In this general neighborhood.	3:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Around Biddleville?	3:37
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	3:38
Rhonda Mawhood	Who were your neighbors in Biddleville?	3:47
Emery L. Rann	I remember Mr. McLean, Mr. and Mrs. McLean and their four or five children. They lived next door. I've forgotten the persons who lived on the other side of us. We stayed there about two years I imagine, and then moved down to the campus, and we stayed here for a long time. The building has been torn down, and it was three doors down where the education building is.	4:01
Rhonda Mawhood	What was that like living on a college campus?	4:48
Emery L. Rann	It was interesting. You knew of Mrs. McCrory?	4:55
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes.	5:01
Emery L. Rann	Mrs. McCrory had a distaste for anything really, including my younger sisters, two of them. Ms. McCrory would pick on those girls, they'd skate on the sidewalk and they'd catch the devil or they'd walk across and they still get the devil. It was really horrible. But all the students knew us and we got along well with all of them.	5:01
Rhonda Mawhood	There were only male students here at that time?	5:43
Emery L. Rann	At the first, yes. While we were here, they brought in the girls, starting with the senior years, junior and senior, and then eventually taking in everybody.	5:50
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember your parents discussing the decision to bring young women into Johnson C. Smith?	6:11
Emery L. Rann	Yes, but there wasn't too much discussions to be done. The decision was made and everybody looked forward to its developing and growing and becoming co-educational.	6:18
Rhonda Mawhood	How did your parents react when Mrs. McCrory used to give your sisters the devil?	6:45
Emery L. Rann	One thing that has stuck in my mind is that I think there was a party and all the kids in the neighborhood were invited to Johnson and Blanche. My two younger sisters, they—Mrs. McCrory, somehow the other raised hell [indistinct 00:07:24] for having this party on the campus and my father straightened her out and told her what is done in that house is our business and it doesn't become you or your place to interfere with what goes on in this house. And after that, she calmed down, but she didn't bother us anymore.	6:50
Rhonda Mawhood	How was it being the only boy in a family of four children?	8:02
Emery L. Rann	Rotten.	8:06
Rhonda Mawhood	Why is that?	8:06
Emery L. Rann	I was rotten. My mother would tell me to wash my clothes, my overalls particularly, and my sisters would come and do it. If I had some ironing to do, I'd ask one of them to do it and they'd do it, anything. (laughs)	8:07
Emery L. Rann	So I became rotten, rotten, rotten.	8:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Happy you were spoiled—(Rann laughs)	8:38
Emery L. Rann	That's right.	8:41
Rhonda Mawhood	And your sisters didn't mind doing this for you?	8:46
Emery L. Rann	Not at all. It's interesting now, one sister is still alive. The others are dead. But this girl is in Greensboro, she's ill. And she left Charlotte and went to Greensboro where her daughter lives. But she just loves me to death, and declares that I'm far beyond any imagination of my accomplishments. But it's good to have them and have the attitudes that they have.	8:48
Rhonda Mawhood	Were your sisters older than you or younger?	9:28
Emery L. Rann	I was oldest. There were two years between my next sister and three years between them, between Blanche and two years between Blanche and Johnson.	9:35
Rhonda Mawhood	So if your sisters took care of you, what was your role towards your sisters?	9:54
Emery L. Rann	My role has been more or less a recipient. And while I protect them and was a big brother to them, I must be honest and say I didn't contribute much. I received more than I gave. That isn't very nice, but that is the truth.	10:06
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, thank you. So where did you first go to school, Dr. Rann? That would've been in West Virginia?	10:40
Emery L. Rann	Yes. I was in ninth grade when we came here and went to Second Ward School. And it was shocking because we had been in a private school in West Virginia, a model school more or less. The school was really a proving ground for the students. Students in the education would come down and teach the classes. Of course we had a professor of education who acted as the principal and oversaw the work that was going on. I remember so well, Mrs. Fannie Cobb Carter. I don't know how I remember it, but she was the professor of education and she was a remarkable woman. I was talking to a group of my family in West Virginia, one of our reunions and mentioned Fannie Cobb Carter, and everybody remembered her. She was really a remarkable person, and it was quite pleasant to see that so many of the people remembered her, the older ones, of course, the youngest ones didn't know anything about her.	10:45
Rhonda Mawhood	What was it that people remember about Mrs. Carter?	12:40
Emery L. Rann	She was just dynamic, just full of herself, full of education, and she loved us. That was a big thing.	12:45
Rhonda Mawhood	The private school that you attended in West Virginia, were all of the teachers African American or did you have White teachers?	12:59
Emery L. Rann	No, all of them Black. This was a part of Bluefield Institute as it was called then. Now it has become three-fourths White.	13:04
Rhonda Mawhood	And so when you moved to Charlotte, you went to Second Ward High School?	13:30
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	13:35
Rhonda Mawhood	So that was in the 1920s. What do you remember about your days at Second Ward? Do you remember your teachers, your classmates?	13:36
Emery L. Rann	Well, I don't remember much about them. I think most of my classmates have gone, and we have, well, all the teachers. One of my classmates died just a few weeks ago, Ed Brown, who was in the government in Washington. Ed has his doctorate from some school, local school, not Smith, but NYU, I believe it was. And one other classmate, Mary Hall, died a few months ago. But from high school, most of the people have gone. From college there, yeah, I came to Smith. And I think of a class of 60, there are about plus or minus 10 still alive.	13:49
Rhonda Mawhood	You said that when you came to Charlotte and when you went to Second Ward, it was shocking to you.	15:18
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	15:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Why is that, sir?	15:26
Emery L. Rann	The state of poverty, the lack of morals and the pugilistic attitude that so many of the kids had, it was shocking after being in that closed environment.	15:27
Rhonda Mawhood	In what ways did you see a lack of morals, for example?	16:06
Emery L. Rann	Well, in language for instance. I'd never heard any cursing. These kids would cuss without any compunction (laughs).	16:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you talk about this difference with your family, with your parents and your sisters at home?	16:44
Emery L. Rann	Oh, yes. But we're given sound advice.	16:53
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember what kind of advice you were given to?	17:00
Emery L. Rann	Well, keep your mouth closed. That is fundamental to just keep cool. That was the essence of it. And of course we did that.	17:02
Rhonda Mawhood	I didn't ask you about your mother earlier, you talked about your father's work. Did your mother work outside of the home while you were growing up?	17:27
Emery L. Rann	Yes. She was the principal when we moved here, was the principal of Woodlawn School, which was an elementary school 10 miles from here. And I recall how she would sometimes walk to school and back.	17:38
Rhonda Mawhood	10 miles?	18:08
Emery L. Rann	Yes. Some of the theological students who had cars would drive them, mama and the others who taught with her, would drive her to school and bring her back. But so often it wasn't possible to. Well, the car might not be functioning or the streets might not be passable, so they would walk it. On a few occasions, a group of us, maybe two or three of us would walk out there, but not off.	18:10
Rhonda Mawhood	So did you help take care of your sisters in the afternoons when your mother was working?	19:06
Emery L. Rann	Oh yes. Yes. Yes, I would be the boss.	19:33
Rhonda Mawhood	So who did the cooking in your family, for example?	19:33
Emery L. Rann	My sisters usually would do. I had to do some of it, but I think my second sister was the main one because my older sister was going to college eventually, Knoxville College. And Blanche, the second sister is the one on whom the responsibility fell. In the summer, she would cook for the students who were on the campus in the summer and boarded to the house. And Blanche hates the situation to this day.	19:36
Rhonda Mawhood	You were saying that your sister didn't like this situation?	20:47
Emery L. Rann	No. My dad was a farmer. He would come up and teach. Well, first of all, he'd get up in the morning and go out and work in his garden, come in, dress, come to Smith and teach, then go back and work in the garden. The thing that I remember most about that was how much I hated it. He wanted me to come out and work in the garden with him, and I hated that. It was traumatic to me because of the fact that the rest of the boys would be out playing, usually tennis, but anything. And I just hated it because I wanted to be out with them. And that thing has followed me all my life, I don't like farming.	20:51
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things did your father raise in the garden, if I may ask?	22:04
Emery L. Rann	A little of everything. Yeah, it's the vegetables, the beans and corn and things for that sort.	22:08
Rhonda Mawhood	And was this only for the family or did he sell?	22:18
Emery L. Rann	No, just for the family. When I was a kid, he used to let me grow squash and I'd take it out in my little wagon and sell them. A lot of people bought them just because it was—Not because they needed it.	22:27
Rhonda Mawhood	But then when you got older, did you keep doing that?	22:48
Emery L. Rann	I put it down as soon as I got able to say no. But really I had so much else to do, I didn't have time really to fool around in the garden much.	22:52
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of other things were you doing at that time?	23:06
Emery L. Rann	Well, after coming to Smith in '30, I was so tied up in things on the campus that is hard to name. Everything on the campus. I was in the Glee Club, on the Quintet, which was the official singing group of the campus. I was in drama. I was active in the Y, my fraternity.	23:08
Rhonda Mawhood	Which one was that, sir?	24:17
Emery L. Rann	Alpha Phi Alpha and the Panhellenic Council. Just about everything except debating. My dad wanted me to be a debater, but I didn't have the interest.	24:24
Rhonda Mawhood	But you liked drama, but you didn't like debating.	24:44
Emery L. Rann	Yes, that's right. And social clubs, of course.	24:47
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of social clubs?	24:48
Emery L. Rann	At that time there were four groups on the campus, non fraternity. And there were a similar number of clubs in town. And every week in the spring there would be a dance. And I had wondered very seriously how in the world during those depression years, we were able to decorate, hire a band, and dress up and go to these parties every week, and yet they did. The places where we had them are ill reputed now. For instance, I've forgotten the name of it, but downtown in an old soft drink building where we'd have to get the crates of drinks and pile them up out of the way so that we could dance on the floor. And Athenium, I think they call it the Athenium Ballroom.	25:00
Emery L. Rann	But we would have our dances and the four clubs would've the LCE, the Bachelors, RSOT, Royal Sons of Tut, Sons of the Nile, Les Chevaliers Elegants, and something else, I forgot the fourth one. But all of the old clubs in town would entertain as well as those of us who were here on the campus. And of course the Serenaders played for us at all these dances until they left and went to New York. And the fellow who took them up there found that they didn't have enough money to really give them a good backing, and so they came back to Charlotte.	26:38
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you stay active in this kind of social club once you graduated from Johnson C. Smith?	28:08
Emery L. Rann	The women's clubs are still in effect, but most of the campus clubs died and the money was a premium.	28:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Were your parents members of different organizations anywhere?	28:30
Emery L. Rann	No.	28:42
Rhonda Mawhood	And when you were going to Smith, were you still living at home?	28:43
Emery L. Rann	Yes. Yes, I lived right here. I'd sneak up to the dormitories and play poker.	28:46
Rhonda Mawhood	Were you sneaking because—Why were you sneaking to the dormitory?	29:08
Emery L. Rann	Well, my dad didn't like gambling. And of course the gambling we did was practically not gambling because we didn't have any funds, penny-added, and stuff like that.	29:15
Emery L. Rann	Another very poignant thing see is our buying whiskey for these affairs, there were bootleggers all around this area. And one in particular over where one of the old girl's dormitories has been built right next door to it for some bootlegger. And we'd go in and buy a 50 cents shot. Was it 50 or a quarter? But anyhow, whatever it was, we'd get a glass of whiskey, throw it down, and then gasp for breath for about five minutes. Most of it was of the bathtub variety. And you don't know much about that.	29:32
Rhonda Mawhood	Only what I've heard of that.	30:39
Emery L. Rann	It was quite interesting.	30:45
Rhonda Mawhood	Were there what you would call shady areas of Charlotte at that time?	30:49
Emery L. Rann	I don't know whether you'd call them shady areas or not. There were some areas where you didn't frequently.	31:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Where would that be?	31:12
Emery L. Rann	Places in Brooklyn. My dad was quite adamant in my going to the show on Second Street, which is no longer in existence. A lot of bootleggers were on that street and some legitimate businesses were there. The AME Zion Publishing house was in the corner. The library, public library was in that corner, in that section. The doctor's offices and the drugstores were all in that area, but there was still that element that wasn't too conducive to people coming in (laughs).	31:14
Emery L. Rann	Central High was our greatest rival, it was all White. And Second Ward was all Black. It was the only Colored—only high school for Blacks. And we would get the hand-me-downs from Central, that is the football, basketball.	32:14
Emery L. Rann	Uniforms were all used from Central and they'd wear them for until they wanted new ones and then pass these on down the Second Ward. One interesting thing happened though, in my junior year in high school, a man came here to work for WBT and he saw that we didn't have a band and he felt that we should have one. So he organized and taught us the fundamentals of music. And for two or three years we had a band made up from his students who were interested and this man who was teaching us. And it was really gratifying now looking back at it to see how this man came in and gave of himself to make us aware of music.	32:43
Rhonda Mawhood	It sounds as though music has been important.	34:02
Emery L. Rann	What's that?	34:04
Rhonda Mawhood	It sounds as though music has been important.	34:04
Emery L. Rann	It has, yes. Well, all three of my sisters played the piano. I took violin lessons and I know nothing at all about violin. In high school I played the bass horn and I know nothing about the bass horn except that it was heavy.	34:07
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you go to church with your family when you were growing up, sir?	34:38
Emery L. Rann	Oh yes, yes. We did. Had been a very active member of the church in West Virginia. In fact, he and the Sunday School Missionary, Reverend Shirley, we called him, organized several Presbyterian churches in that area, Bluefield and the coal fields, which extended north from Bluefield. And here, which is really the basis for Presbyterian churches. We joined the Biddleville church and have been a member there for 60 some years.	34:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you go to church any days other than Sunday?	35:43
Emery L. Rann	Every time they opened the door to the church, we were there. And it's strange, but missing church is quite an ordeal. You get it into your bones and you just go to church.	35:48
Rhonda Mawhood	Did the church organize fun things while you were growing up?	36:13
Emery L. Rann	Oh, yes. Yes.	36:16
Rhonda Mawhood	What kind things?	36:16
Emery L. Rann	We would have a very, very impressive young people's group. And we used to meet and do fun things. And every summer we'd go to Mary Potter School, which is in Oxford, and have a Young People's School of Methods, they called it. And in each one of the centers in this area in Florida, Georgia, North and South Carolina and Virginia, we would have these schools of methods. And it was quite an experience, a lifelong lasting experience that all of us had. And friends that we've developed from these things have been lasting.	36:21
Rhonda Mawhood	What was involved in the School of Methods?	37:33
Emery L. Rann	We would go from class to class and study methods of teaching and actually learn. We'd take Bible studies and that sort of thing. We'd do a lot of singing, we'd do a lot of studying. And the ministers in the area, which serve as faculty, and they would teach. We would have sessions maybe particularly at Sunset, we'd have a meeting there and they would try to indoctrinate us and we'd take part in that sort of thing. But I have always regretted that they stopped having schools of methods because it was just a wonderful experience. I think my younger sisters didn't enjoy what the older of us did because at that time it had kind of died out. And I think by the time Johnsie, the baby, had matured, that they had discontinued it altogether.	37:40
Rhonda Mawhood	What was your church's involvement in civic affairs?	39:38
Emery L. Rann	I was not too active in civic affairs until I came back here as a teacher. After leaving here, I went to the University of Michigan, got a master's degree and had a series of teaching jobs in Alabama, Georgia, Texas, and Charlotte. And when I came back to Charlotte, I became quite active in civic affairs. But that was groomed in.	39:44
Rhonda Mawhood	I eventually would like to get to your reasons for becoming a medical doctor. But since you've talked about living in other places in the south, maybe I could ask you a little bit about that. What was that like moving to really the deep south from North Carolina?	40:36
Emery L. Rann	Well, the south was the south.	41:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	41:02
Emery L. Rann	And I recall so often, so many experiences that I had. I had bitter experiences in practically all the places that I went. In Georgia first, I got that job because Mrs. Gregg, who was the wife of the principal, came up here to a study session that they had here at Smith. And I hadn't taken any education at all. I just had a pure science major. I was intending to go to school, but at that time, the money became quite a problem and I couldn't go. So I went to Georgia. I taught about five different subjects, unrelated, coached football and basketball with no equipment whatsoever. And I wrote to Auburn University to the coach and told him what the situation was. And he sent me enough equipment, balls and uniforms to equip my team.	41:09
Emery L. Rann	We had one game and that was in Atlanta, and it was on the spur of the moment. And they didn't have time to really get ready for our team. But the coach said he would give us dinner after the game, and of course we'd have to leave. They didn't have facilities for us to stay overnight. And we played them. My boys didn't know a thing about football, but the score was 12-6, I believe. And they made their last touchdown in the last minutes of playing. (laughs) It was really interesting.	42:58
Emery L. Rann	In basketball, we just cleaned up. One experience we had was at LaGrange, which is about 30 miles from Nuna where I taught. We had them beaten about 30-12, something like that. And during the half, these White men came and sat down under our goal and said, "The first one that makes the basket is going to get shot." So the score ended. We had 30, they had 32. (laughs) We didn't get a basket.	43:53
Rhonda Mawhood	And you were the coach—	44:50
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	44:50
Rhonda Mawhood	—at this time? When these men said that, what did you tell your player?	44:55
Emery L. Rann	Don't shoot. You joined the program, you went along with it if you wanted to live because those guys didn't have any compunction over not shooting. But that attitude existed in just about every place we went. When I was teaching in Alabama, I carried a basketball team over in Mississippi and in Oklahoma, Mississippi, the boys said, "We didn't want to stay here overnight. Let's go on down to—" Oh, what's the name of this school? The State College for Blacks in Mississippi.	45:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Jackson?	45:50
Emery L. Rann	No, not Jackson, State. Well, oh, whatever it was. But I went down to send a wire to the coach at the school and the owner of the drugstore where you made your call said, "Where is the place?" And I told him where it was. "Do they have a phone there?" I said, "Yes, they do." He said, "Do they have a phone there?" I said, "Yes, they have a phone." "Goddammit, nigger, when you talk to a White man, you say, "Sir."" I said sir, and went out of the door and lo and behold, there was a group of White men waiting and I just ran and jumped in my car. I mean, I didn't run, but I made haste to my car and left that town just as fast as I could.	45:51

Rhonda Mawhood	You were quite young at this time?	0:08
Emery L. Rann	Yes, I was 20 when I finished college. Taught one year and then went to Michigan. I think I was too young. I think I should have had more experience and had developed more, but I took it as it as a game.	0:08
Rhonda Mawhood	Wait, you took teaching as a game or what was it that you took as a game? I'm sorry.	0:43
Emery L. Rann	What's that?	0:48
Rhonda Mawhood	What was it that you took as a game?	0:48
Emery L. Rann	Oh, the game of life, I'd guess you'd call it, the pros and the cons. My last experience in teaching was back at Stillman College in Tuscaloosa where they were nagging me to come and join the Army. I would get various persons to say that I was essential and consequently got out of it. But finally I just said, "I'll go ahead and join and get this thing over with." So I went to Fort Bragg, which is the area here, and it's a long story, but after my examination and standing in line after the examination, I was in this long line waiting to talk to one of the officers. There's a naval officer, army, all the specimens, all the men in the various sections of the army—of the armed services, were there.	0:51
Emery L. Rann	And as I walked up to the naval officer's desk, I saw him reading a University of Michigan Bulletin and I said, "Pardon me sir, are you a Michigan man?" He jumped up and said, "Yeah, are you?" I said, "Yes." "Where did you live?" And I told him, and it's happened that the Alpha House in Ann Arbor was right across the street from this guy's house. And we used to sing dirty songs to each other. (laughs) And we'd get together and sing Michigan songs. We would just have a good time.	2:51
Emery L. Rann	But when I got to the Army man, he stamped, rejected, and I was quite upset because I didn't have any idea that I was sick. So I came back to Charlotte and went to my doctor, said, "I was told that I had high blood pressure," and he said, "No, you don't have high blood pressure, 120 over 80, which was perfectly normal." But that was my situation.	3:41
Rhonda Mawhood	Why is it that you think you were? Why do you think you were rejected?	4:16
Emery L. Rann	The officer when I pressed him, told me I had high blood pressure. But this was disproved when I got back here.	4:21
Rhonda Mawhood	So there was another reason?	4:31
Emery L. Rann	No, that was it. I volunteered for several positions, but the people said, "No, there's no place for a Colored man in that field, but you can go to Tuskegee and join the Air Corps, the Army Air Corps, and you won't have any problem at all." I told him, "No, I don't want fly." So I gave it up, got with the war Price and Rationing Board, and from there while there I took my examination to go to medical school, and passed it and was accepted.	4:34
Rhonda Mawhood	What was it that made you want to become a medical doctor?	5:36
Emery L. Rann	I had wanted to before, but it was four of us to be educated. I didn't press at all. It was part of my rearing. The four of us heard from the time we were large enough to understand what was being said, that we had to make sacrifices. We don't have the income, and you just can't afford all the things that you want. And I think that had a very, very keen part of my growing up, the idea of sacrifice. That hurt too. Because even in the band that we had here at Second Ward, I wanted to play the saxophone, but I chose a base horn because of the fact they furnished the horn. And I didn't feel like asking my dad and mother to give me a saxophone so I could learn to play it. I learned this base horn.	5:39
Rhonda Mawhood	What was it about medicine that appealed to you?	7:16
Emery L. Rann	I had always wanted to be either a medical missionary or this doctor. At one of these schools of Methodists, I decided I didn't want to be a minister because the ministers were so rotten. I just didn't want to be associated with a group like that, and I would prefer being a physician. And with this opportunity, the Rationing Board showed so much indebtedness—It was indefinite. Then I decided I'd try medicine.	7:19
Emery L. Rann	So as I said, I passed these examinations to go into medicine, and I saved every penny I would make in the war Price and Rationing Board and went to Meharry. I chose Meharry instead of Howard, and the first semester was fine. The second semester, books, tuition, room and board, everything went up and all of my funds were just wiped out. So I got several teaching fellowships and that helped me through.	8:28
Emery L. Rann	One of the things which was really griping to me was that so many of the people from my relatives who said, "Oh yes, this is my nephew, my cousin or whatever, who's a student in medical school. He's really doing well." What I wrote to them and asked them for maybe $100 or something to pay this to me, "Oh, I'm sorry. We don't have the money." That's the way it was.	9:28
Rhonda Mawhood	And who did you live with when you were in medical school?	10:16
Emery L. Rann	There is below Fisk University, Meharry is right across the street from Fisk, and on the corner, the main street is Jefferson Street. On the corner below Fisk and Meharry was Gene Price's Pharmacy. I contracted with Gene to live in his house, which was upstairs above the drugstore. And I had a room made. And one day I was in the drugstore at 12 o'clock and the place was just overflowing with people. People from Tennessee State, and Fisk, and from Meharry were there getting lunch. So I took off my coat and got behind the counter and started working.	10:23
Emery L. Rann	After we were through with the rush, Gene came up to me and said, "I sure appreciate your help. Can you come down every day?" So I said "Yes," and I came down every noon to work in Gene Price's pharmacy. When I went to pay him my money, he said, "Well, listen, I want you to continue working with me at noon and you won't have to pay anything on your room." His brother used to bring him his lunch and dinner, and after a little while he started bringing me a plate, and pretty soon I had no board bill. So I got room and board free for the three years after that first year that I was there. Hustle.	11:26
Rhonda Mawhood	Gene, I'm sorry, I forgot his last name.	12:49
Emery L. Rann	Price.	12:52
Rhonda Mawhood	He was also a Black man?	12:53
Emery L. Rann	Yes, he was Black.	12:54
Rhonda Mawhood	I just wanted to be sure.	12:56
Emery L. Rann	He was, I guess about 10, 12 years older than I. But he was a very good friend of Jimmie Lunceford. You remember that band? No? Yeah, that's before your time. But he was one of the Duke Ellington, Count Basie equivalents. He had a wonderful band. Yeah, I should've known that because Jimmie died in '48. That's before your time.	13:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you get a chance to go out and listen to music when you were in medical school?	13:52
Emery L. Rann	Oh yes. Yes, on the weekend, we would take in all the shows. Get a job serving the tables, and we'd hear all the plays and all the shows, see all the shows; still hustling.	13:55
Rhonda Mawhood	So when you finished medical school, did you come back to Charlotte to practice?	14:34
Emery L. Rann	I went to Winston-Salem where I spent a year of residency, of internship really, and then I came on back to Charlotte. Stayed here for six years, and then went into the army as a doctor. They sent me a nice letter saying, "You will volunteer. If you don't, we will volunteer you." (laughs)	14:40
Emery L. Rann	So I went to Alaska. I went to California, and then transferred to Alaska.	15:12
Rhonda Mawhood	And when around what time was this?	15:20
Emery L. Rann	'55.	15:25
Rhonda Mawhood	'55. What was it like for you to go to Alaska?	15:28
Emery L. Rann	Well, it was nice. I enjoyed it. We went to three sites in Alaska. I mean, our battalion did. One of them was far north and the other two were relatively southern Alaska. I was based at Newenham and the other guys, I've forgotten what the places were. But these places were situated by the Air Force to serve as air watch areas and warning.	15:32
Emery L. Rann	In Newenham where I was, you could see Siberia on a clear day. It was just about 30 miles. And it was a nice experience. I was the only Black officer in the group, and everything was just beautiful. We'd go downtown after we got to Anchorage. We'd go to the medical society meetings, and I was completely accepted, no problem; in California, the same thing. Really a nice experience.	16:26
Emery L. Rann	And the commanding officer at one of the places in California where I was, offered me an increase in position, increased money, increased opportunities all around. And I told him I didn't want it. I wish now I had done going ahead and maybe done a specialty or whatever. But no, I was anxious to get out of the army and back to work. So that's the way it was.	17:21
Rhonda Mawhood	So were all of your patients soldiers at this time?	18:10
Emery L. Rann	No. I was very fortunate to be given jobs, which entail taking care of the soldiers families. There was one other Black in this organization, this last organization I was who was a pediatrician, and he and I just ran the camp almost. There were just about 15 doctors here, but it was nice.	18:17
Rhonda Mawhood	And did you care for both White and Black soldiers and their families at this time, sir?	18:54
Emery L. Rann	Actually, the majority of them was White by a big bunch. Very seldom did we have Black patients. And the thing about it too, a lot of these patients were from the southern states, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, and so forth and so on. And they were the most beautiful patients I've ever had. They came right in, joined in, and did what we wanted with both with both of us. When Ed left the other Black doctor, the pediatrician, when he left and when I left, there were big articles in the paper, in the base paper, and the reception was very nice. There was a nice reception in Alaska too when I left there. They had parties and rowdy get togethers. They had steaks and whiskey. And you ate and you drank, and then you got on the plane and traveled back.	19:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Had you been expecting that kind of reception of you when you were called into the army?	20:53
Emery L. Rann	I didn't know. In Alaska I was.. Well, we stayed there until the fall when we moved into Anchorage, and we didn't have anything to do in the Anchorage. But in both places, in Newenham and in Anchorage, my buddies were a guy from Georgia, a guy from Florida, and a guy from Louisiana, and we were inseparable, those three White boys and me.	21:00
Emery L. Rann	And one experience I remember was in Alaska, I had written a paper on the status of life in isolation in these isolated areas. I didn't have any source books, I just wrote it by questionnaire. I would send out questionnaires to the troops and use the information I got from that to write the article. We went to the officer's club in Anchorage, Camp Elmendorf. I don't know how I happen to remember that, but we were up there drinking, and a group of other soldiers came in and joined the conversation. We were having a good time. Well, I had to go to the bathroom, and I left. And another man came up and said, "Where is that nigger officer that wrote that article?" And one of my, the guy from Florida said, "That is no nigger. He's a gentleman." And from that, the whole club stood up and applauded. But it was very gratifying to note that kind of reaction on the part of the people.	21:56
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you meet any Native people Eskimos, when you were in Alaska, in Anchorage?	23:55
Emery L. Rann	Yes, a few. One of the rather shocking things to me was if you'd go into a little village, well, it wasn't promiscuous, promiscuity or anything of that sort, but, "In order to make you feel at home, you are welcome to my wife." And some of the men accommodated themselves, and there was no repercussion at all. I hadn't thought about that in years.	23:59
Emery L. Rann	One of the things when we first got to Anchorage, the soldiers who were there were going to make it so conducive to our liking, Anchorage, they proceeded to get all of us situated with women to associate with. And they had a Black girl who was a nurse to be my company. This was the first evidence of any racial difference. But this girl didn't like me, and I didn't like her. So we met and then went our separate ways. So we played, oh shucks, what is this game? Anyhow, they had prizes, and I won a rotisserie. So several of us got together, bought meat and various other foods, and cooked them on the rotisserie. And that's the way we spend our time, eating in Alaska.	25:13
Rhonda Mawhood	The other, your White friends, did their relationships with the women around Anchorage work out better than yours then?	27:05
Emery L. Rann	No, not too well, no. Those girls wanted to get married, and none of these guys wanted to get married. In fact, most of them were married while we were in the local areas. Because we spent six months up there, and didn't see a woman the whole time we were there.	27:15
Rhonda Mawhood	So just men hanging out together.	27:41
Emery L. Rann	That was the extent of it.	27:41
Rhonda Mawhood	And then after that, did you come back to North Carolina to work Dr. Rann?	27:41
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	27:41
Rhonda Mawhood	So where did you work here?	27:41
Emery L. Rann	My office was on First Street in Charlotte, very close to downtown, and that's where I worked until I moved out here to this area.	28:09
Rhonda Mawhood	And when was that, sir?	28:33
Emery L. Rann	Oh, I don't remember. But I did move to—Oh yeah, when I got out of the army, we planned a building up here in on Beatties Ford Road in 1957. And I fell out with a guy who I had brought him here. We were in Meharry together. I had brought him here and had him and his wife live in my home, and we fell out. I didn't—In the first place, he wanted a pharmacy, and I didn't want to interfere with the pharmacy people who were here in town. And I told him I wanted him to take care of my obstetrical patients when I was going out of town. And I found out that he was charging them, overcharging them, and if they had to be delivered, he would bleed them as much as he could and eventually would refer them to whomever I had asked him to. So I moved out to the corner of Sanders Street, which is a few blocks up the road and bought my place and there I was.	28:43
Rhonda Mawhood	And who were your patients at this time Dr?	30:27
Emery L. Rann	Everybody. I think I had one of the most heavily populated practices in Charlotte. Fortunately, when I started practice, the guy upstairs suggested that I talk to the people about the downstairs place. And consequently, I had moved downstairs and Alexander had the heaviest practice in town, but he was sick. He had high blood pressure. Next door to him upstairs was Bill Russell, who was a dentist. And I had—[indistinct 00:31:38] was very influential in my coming here, and he said, he stuttered. He said, "Emery, I want you to take care of some of my patients. I don't feel like going to them." So I said, "Okay." And he gave me about 20 patients, all of whom owed him money and who would always come in and say, "I'll pay you next week." But these people, I accepted them. All of them referred patients to me, paying patients. And consequently, pretty soon I had the heaviest practice in Charlotte and of paying patients. It was good. It was nice.	30:37
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of health problems did you see most frequently in your practice?	32:38
Emery L. Rann	Everything. I would refer my surgical patients to persons who could handle it, but I did most of everything. I laugh sometimes. That's the extent of my practice. I'd take care of fractures, and I wouldn't touch a fracture now to save my soul. I mean, I was I guess ambitious, but I would try anything legitimate. But it was rough. But you see, everybody was a general practitioner, really. Even the big surgeons, they would do their part of general practice. Nowadays, everybody is a specialist.	32:43
Rhonda Mawhood	Were there health problems, which appeared to be more common than certain other problems among your patients?	34:00
Emery L. Rann	You would have a certain percentage of your practice would be home-related, but relatively few at that time. I think the big problems of family development has come about recently because as I look back, poverty has been with us. But I think the persons who, the head of the, that I meant to say is the family was much more important then than it is now. And there was a relationship within the family which was quite gratifying.	34:07
Rhonda Mawhood	And you would say that that was made for healthier?	35:24
Emery L. Rann	Yes. Yes. The men didn't come to the doctor but the families did, and he would take care of.	35:28
Rhonda Mawhood	The men didn't come to the doctor?	35:40
Emery L. Rann	Not as frequently as they do now; couldn't afford it. They had to work.	35:40
Rhonda Mawhood	Did—If women came to you, did you have women coming to you asking you about birth control?	35:59
Emery L. Rann	Oh yes.	36:06
Rhonda Mawhood	That sort of thing?	36:06
Emery L. Rann	Oh yes, and weight problems.	36:07
Rhonda Mawhood	Even in the 1950s?	36:07
Emery L. Rann	Oh yes. Yeah, birth control and weight, those two items were really the big part of our practice.	36:14
Rhonda Mawhood	This is something which is personal, but I'd like to ask it. Did you ever get women coming to ask you about abortion specifically?	36:32
Emery L. Rann	Yes, occasionally. There was one doctor in town who did illegal abortions, and when a case seemed desperate enough, I would tell the patient to go talk to Dr. X, see what he has to say. And in 10 out of 10 cases, he would take care of them.	36:40
Emery L. Rann	And some of those stories were so sad. For instance, a 12-year-old girl impregnated by her father. That's just one. As I recall, this girl was aborted by this man. This man was killed. They never found the killers, but he was financially fixed. And he bought a trailer, you might say, a car, a big van where the driver was in the same building. Oh, he was in the eastern part of the state, and he smart mouthed a group of the White citizens in this town, and he ended up dead. Didn't know what caused it, and I don't think we were very anxious to find out who did it.	37:17
Rhonda Mawhood	Was it commonly known that he would perform abortions or was it something that only doctors knew?	39:27
Emery L. Rann	He had no qualms. I think he performed abortions for some of the members of the gentry here in town. So he was quite protected.	39:38
Rhonda Mawhood	When you say the gentry, is that the White gentry or the Black gentry or both?	40:04
Emery L. Rann	White, yes. The runners of the town, city council officials.	40:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you marry Dr. Rann?	40:19
Emery L. Rann	Oh yes.	40:19
Rhonda Mawhood	Are you married? When did you marry?	40:20
Emery L. Rann	Three times.	40:43
Rhonda Mawhood	Three times.	40:43
Emery L. Rann	The first was I was teaching in Texas and fell in love with one of my coworkers there. In fact, she and I were the only two young unmarried people on the campus. So we married and were fired immediately.	40:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Because you married?	41:20
Emery L. Rann	Hmm?	41:24
Rhonda Mawhood	You were fired because you married?	41:24
Emery L. Rann	Yes. The president was interested in the matter becoming associated with his daughter. And the daughter and I, she was engaged when she came there, and I was engaged to this girl. But we talked about it, and she said, "Well, I like you, but I'm not interested in getting married to you." And I said, "Well, I feel the same way." So we went our separate ways and got fired. This girl got divorced about three months later. The second time I got married was when I was interning in Winston-Salem, and we stayed married 20 some years. And then the last time was to a young woman, and we've been married about 12 years.	41:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your second wife die, sir or were you divorced?	43:08
Emery L. Rann	No, we got a divorce, and she died a few months later.	43:11
Rhonda Mawhood	And your first wife you met at school, your second wife you met while you were interning. Where did you meet her?	43:11
Emery L. Rann	The second wife?	43:11
Rhonda Mawhood	The second wife.	43:11
Emery L. Rann	In Winston-Salem. That's where I was interning. And the third wife, I met here.	43:11
Rhonda Mawhood	And do You have children, sir?	43:21
Emery L. Rann	A daughter by the first marriage, a son by the second marriage, and well, three little ones by this last marriage, a boy and a girl, and the baby died of asthma. But the boy and the girl are the pride of my life now.	43:34
Rhonda Mawhood	How old are they now?	43:54
Emery L. Rann	One's 13 and one's eight. The boy is eight and the girl, 13.	43:59
Rhonda Mawhood	This is a formal interview, but do you tell them stories about when you were growing up?	44:12
Emery L. Rann	Oh yes. To the extent that they listen; they don't listen much. The boy, eight years old, "Dad, how did they do such and such a thing in the old times?" I tell it.	44:17
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, I'd like to ask you about some of your civic involvements after you came back to Charlotte Community if I haven't worn you out already.	44:39
Emery L. Rann	You've been to mentioned it. I was active in the medical society. In fact, in that book you will note the fight that we had to eliminate prejudice, not prejudice, but segregation. And besides that, I dabbled in politics, and I never ran for office, but I call myself King Maker. (laughs)	44:59
Emery L. Rann	Fred Alexander, the first Black senator from the state of North Carolina, met with Jim Polk, who was working with the governor, who was working with the governor as the Black representatives who conferred with him. And I met, the three of us met to decide who was going to run for city council.	45:50
Emery L. Rann	Jim didn't feel that he was ready, and I didn't feel that I was ready because I was trying to build up my practice. And so we put Fred up and got him elected. It was interesting though, that Fred forgot that we had put him up after he got his job. He said that none of us had helped him at all, and that wasn't true. Yeah, I was on the social planning council and—	46:22

Rhonda Mawhood	And I've seen your name in connection with social clubs as well in Charlotte when you came back here.	0:03
Emery L. Rann	Yes. Well, right now, as I have slowed down a lot now, but I've been active with the Republican Party and have had little odd jobs with them in various capacities. I belong to Boulé, which is a fraternity of men who have accomplished. Durham has a chair, in fact, Durham had the first chapter of North Carolina and all the—A lot of the men with Central and with North Carolina Mutual Insurance Company and some businessmen there in town where the original members. Dr. Newson and I from Charlotte were in that group of original members of the Boulé. And of course we moved out and established our own Boulés here in Greensboro, Asheville, Charlotte, Winston. And it is, I was fortunate enough to be elected the Southeastern president, so that's kept me pretty busy these last—I just got out of office last year. But the organization includes men in practically all walks of life who have made contributions in politics, in medicine, in the ministry and everything, and it's really wonderful. Until recently it has been anti-publicity and consequently a lot of people don't know about it.	0:18
Rhonda Mawhood	Boulé, so that was established in the 1915s?	2:59
Emery L. Rann	It was established in 1906.	3:06
Rhonda Mawhood	1906. And then the chapter here?	3:08
Emery L. Rann	The chapter here was organized in 1968, somewhere along in there.	3:09
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	3:16
Emery L. Rann	Took that long to see the worst of North Carolina. Now I think we have one of the largest groups in the country, North Carolina.	3:16
Rhonda Mawhood	And the name, is that taken from the Greek assembly?	3:27
Emery L. Rann	Yes. Yes. The formal name is Sigma Pi Phi.	3:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Sigma.	3:36
Emery L. Rann	But the Boulé is a part of Sigma Pi Phi.	3:37
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of contributions would a potential new member have to have made to be considered as a member?	3:42
Emery L. Rann	In our last election we elected one person and he is an entrepreneur. He has a business that he established himself and has been in active service for about three years. He has a mailing firm, I don't know what the thing is, but anyhow, it's quite lucrative, and Harvey Gan is member, Watt, they're more recent initiates and both of them have been in politics. Mel Watt in law and Julius Chambers, president of Central, he was quite a figure in law. We have Reverend Jones, pastor of Friendship Church, Baptist Church up the street is a member. And all of them have been contributors except me.	4:04
Rhonda Mawhood	And you've remained a Republican over the years?	5:32
Emery L. Rann	Yes. My dad was a Republican, but when he moved to North Carolina, he became a Democrat so that his vote would mean something. But I started off as a Democrat but didn't like the policies that were being pushed forward so I quit, joined the Republican Party and have been there now.	5:46
Rhonda Mawhood	At what time was that, that you quit Democrat and into Republican?	6:18
Emery L. Rann	Oh, I would say about 19—I don't remember. It was about 1960.	6:30
Rhonda Mawhood	So it's the Kennedy-Johnson era?	6:36
Emery L. Rann	Yes. That's a good way to think about it. I think President Johnson was a Democrat, wasn't he?	6:53
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes.	7:03
Emery L. Rann	Yeah, somewhere along there. Dates don't mean much to me now.	7:03
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, I have a hard time keeping straight presidential terms. I prefer to think of it in terms of who was President.	7:16
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	7:26
Rhonda Mawhood	Can I ask you what it was that you didn't like about the Kennedy-Johnson administration?	7:31
Emery L. Rann	So many of the Democratic leaders were outspoken segregationists. And Ada Hawkins who ran for governor of the state was a very outspoken Democrat. And this old gentleman from the Northern Mountains, I've forgotten his name, he ran for an office in Hawkins, was for him. And I asked him, "How in the devil can you vote and be so prominent in this man's election when you know his attitude? He doesn't like you, he doesn't like any Black person." And he said, "Yeah, but you've got to use your head about these things." I said, "I ain't going to use my head about it. I'm not going to vote for him." So I went ahead and got out of the party and joined the Republicans.	7:37
Emery L. Rann	There was something else too. At that time we had the Democratic Party of Charlotte who had monthly meetings, it was an unofficial social meeting. I went to these meetings and I enjoyed them very much. But the old problem of race came into the thing and Herbert Umphrey came here to speak. I had been associated with Mr. Umphrey in some of my work with the NMA, National Medical Association, and I thought surely that I could be named in the group to help make him welcome. And when I wasn't, I asked about it and they said, "Well, you weren't on the list." I said, "Okay." Well, I told them to stick it and I joined the Republican Party.	8:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Were you ever a member of the NAACP?	10:31
Emery L. Rann	Oh, yes, I'm a life member.	10:31
Rhonda Mawhood	When did you join?	10:36
Emery L. Rann	Oh, years ago. When I taught at Second Ward, I believe. That was 1930.	10:39
Rhonda Mawhood	1930. Wow.	10:45
Emery L. Rann	Well, I'm 79 now, see? So that wasn't too long ago.	10:47
Rhonda Mawhood	And do you remember? This may sound like a silly question, but do you remember why you joined the NAACP?	11:06
Emery L. Rann	Well, I've always been racially conscious, and since I don't actively do too much, I felt that this was a way that I could participate without being too obvious.	11:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you have to be concerned about being too obvious?	11:41
Emery L. Rann	To an extent, yes. You'd be labeled and it was good not to be labeled. But I think I invited labeling to a big extent because I got a letter from the White Citizens Council and immediately I answered by editorial, a letter to the editor in the observer stating that, "I cannot join your Citizens Council, but I'd like to invite you to join the NAACP." (laughs)	11:49
Emery L. Rann	At the same time, Sears Roebuck was in their big office branch and I went into Sears, went downstairs where they had two fountains, one was white and the other was chocolate, colored chocolate for Negroes. And the one, I don't think it was labeled, "For Whites only," probably. But anyhow, I, in my haste, I didn't read the signs, I just grabbed the white fountain and started drinking. And a cop came up behind me and grabbed me, "What are you doing drinking out of this fountain?" Scared the life out of me, but that was one of the experiences which I had.	12:45
Rhonda Mawhood	I'm sorry, how old were you at this time, sir, when the cop came and put his hand on you for drinking?	13:57
Emery L. Rann	Oh, I must have been in college, because before then I didn't have any reason for going to Sears.	14:03
Rhonda Mawhood	And how did that episode end up? Did you explain to the police officer something?	14:23
Emery L. Rann	There was no explanation. You just were wrong. You don't drink out of that fountain.	14:30
Rhonda Mawhood	And he dealt with you simply by removing you from the fountain?	14:49
Emery L. Rann	No, he just gave me a warning, "Don't drink out of this anymore." And that was it.	14:55
Rhonda Mawhood	There's one thing that I'd like to come back to, that you mentioned him before the tape recording was turned on, and that was working while you were in medical school on the Canadian Pacific Railroad.	15:08
Emery L. Rann	Mm-hmm.	15:26
Rhonda Mawhood	Can you tell me a little bit about that? When you got that job and what it was like?	15:26
Emery L. Rann	Well, I told you about the drugstore.	15:27
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	15:31
Emery L. Rann	On the basis of my having gone to Michigan, majoring in biology, I got student teacherships in histology, in neuroanatomy, and in parasitology. And in each one of those I was given full tuition for that particular semester. I think that was the only ones that I had. But the rest of it was at Gene Price's drugstore. It was interesting that so many of the men who were there who weren't in the Army had jobs, which gave them enough security to stay in school. One fella who later moved to Statesville who died rather recently, he had been out in Indiana somewhere out there practicing after he left Statesville, and he came back to retire in Statesville. And in doing so, got sick and eventually died. His widow said that she would stay in Statesville, but she didn't. She moved out soon after the funeral.	15:31
Rhonda Mawhood	Is there anything that I haven't asked you about, Dr. Rann, that you think is important and would like to talk about?	17:54
Emery L. Rann	I tend to roam. I guess you've noticed that, but I can't think of anything.	18:04
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, what I would like to ask you to help me with is to fill out a biographical form and family history. There's just some information we'd like to get on everyone.	18:17
Emery L. Rann	Oh, sure.	18:31
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you.	18:31
Rhonda Mawhood	So your last name is spelled R-A-N-N?	18:32
Emery L. Rann	Right.	18:48
Rhonda Mawhood	And your middle name, sir?	18:51
Emery L. Rann	Middle name?	18:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, sir.	18:55
Emery L. Rann	Louvelle. L-O-U-V-E-L-L-E. And the first name is Emery. E-M-E-R-Y.	18:55
Rhonda Mawhood	And you live at 4301 Hamilton Circle?	19:09
Emery L. Rann	Right.	19:15
Rhonda Mawhood	What is your zip please, Dr. Rann?	19:32
Emery L. Rann	28216.	19:33
Rhonda Mawhood	And your telephone number, sir?	19:34
Emery L. Rann	394-3275, and 704, area code.	19:41
Rhonda Mawhood	And when the transcript of this interview is typed up, how do you want to be known? How do you want your name to appear at the top of the transcript?	19:52
Emery L. Rann	Emery L. Rann. Incidentally that Emery is the first name.	20:02
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes. Could you give me your date of birth, please, sir?	20:15
Emery L. Rann	3/9/14.	20:23
Rhonda Mawhood	And your place of birth?	20:24
Emery L. Rann	Keystone, West Virginia.	20:32
Rhonda Mawhood	All right. Now there's a space for spouse's name and date of birth and so forth, would you like to list all of your wives or simply your last, your current, your wife now?	20:45
Emery L. Rann	The first one was 1915. The second one, 1912. The last one, 1942.	21:04
Rhonda Mawhood	And your first wife's name, please, sir?	21:41
Emery L. Rann	Oh, Bernice.	21:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember her last name before?	21:42
Emery L. Rann	Oubre.	21:46
Rhonda Mawhood	How do spell that?	22:01
Emery L. Rann	O-U-B-R-E.	22:01
Rhonda Mawhood	And—	22:03
Emery L. Rann	The second one, Margratha Chambers. M-A-R-G-R-A-T-H-A. And Flossie Foxx. X-X.	22:09
Rhonda Mawhood	And where was your current wife born? Current, I'm sorry, your wife. (both laugh) That doesn't sound very nice.	22:42
Emery L. Rann	What is the name of that place? It's in the mountains where they have a lot of homegrown whiskey.	23:04
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh. Only places I know in the mountains are Asheville and Black Mountains and Boone. Has to be near Tennessee. Tennessee is well known. I'm sorry, I don't know.	23:15
Emery L. Rann	I can't think of it to save my soul.	23:31
Rhonda Mawhood	But at any rate, she was born in North Carolina in the western part of the state?	23:33
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	23:35
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. And what is your wife's occupation, sir?	23:50
Emery L. Rann	Retired teacher. PhD from Columbia.	23:54
Rhonda Mawhood	And could you tell me your mother's name, please, Dr. Rann?	24:12
Emery L. Rann	Vicie. V-I-C-I-E. Froe. F-R-O-E.	24:16
Rhonda Mawhood	And do you know what year your mother was born Dr. Rann?	24:31
Emery L. Rann	'88, I believe it was.	24:47
Rhonda Mawhood	And what year did your mother die, sir? Do you remember?	24:52
Emery L. Rann	1954, I believe.	25:02
Rhonda Mawhood	And she was born in West Virginia, was she?	25:08
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	25:09
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you know where in West Virginia?	25:15
Emery L. Rann	Pocahontas.	25:17
Rhonda Mawhood	And your father's name please, sir?	25:18
Emery L. Rann	Emery. Emery. Louvelle. Cass County, Michigan.	25:31
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, but was his family—Were his parents just visiting Michigan or did they live in Michigan?	25:43
Emery L. Rann	They lived there. His uncle, grand uncle, or something, from Western North Carolina. They left eastern North Carolina and went to Michigan. And his grandfather had been one of the original North Carolinians who went up there. His dad, John, was the son of an Indian. And he had a family of about six and only two of them lived, my dad and his sister. Of course, the sister left. She left and got married and he stayed around home until the age 20 when he ran away and went to school.	25:56
Emery L. Rann	It's quite interesting. He went to Racine Wisconsin. And my dad didn't talk much, but I pulled it out of him. He wandered around Racine until he got just tired and hungry and down with the world. So he went up on a porch and sat down, and while he was there, the woman of the house came out and said, "What are you doing sitting out here?" And he said he was tired and hungry and he just got found the first place that he could sit down to rest. And she had him come in, gave him food, gave him a job to go to school while he was living in Racine, and he finished high school. He had elementary school, but he was self-taught mostly. So he went on to Lincoln University in Pennsylvania and became a teacher.	27:25
Rhonda Mawhood	When you say he ran away from his family in Michigan, why do you say that?	28:57
Emery L. Rann	He ran away.	29:06
Rhonda Mawhood	His family wanted him to leave?	29:06
Emery L. Rann	No, his dad didn't want him to. They became friends later on, but he left without permission to go to school.	29:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you know if his father, your father's father, ever talked to him about his Indian mother or Indian father [indistinct 00:29:36]?	29:29
Emery L. Rann	Not too great an extent. I really don't know too much about his side of the family. Of course, we grew up with the Froes.	29:36
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your Froe grandparents tell you stories about when they were growing up and so forth?	29:49
Emery L. Rann	What?	29:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your mother's parents tell you stories about—	30:06
Emery L. Rann	Oh, yes. Grandpa, my mother's dad had three daughters, no sons, and he was the justice of peace in West Virginia. And do you know anything about West Virginia?	30:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Not very much. No. I'm sorry.	30:26
Emery L. Rann	It's a very built-in government. And my granddad being a justice of peace, had inroads through the politicians around in that area. And I can't think of the name of that feud, McCoys and the Hatfields. The Hatfields was my granddad's buddies and they used to have drinking bouts together. Well, Sheriff Hatfield. And every Saturday, well, I would go down to Wilco where they lived every summer and spend most of the summer down there with Aunt Matt and her husband. And they had a boy, a nephew, a son really, who was my age, a few months difference, and every Saturday, grandpa Hatfield and all of the political big wheels would meet in grandpa's office.	30:29
Emery L. Rann	And every Saturday, come what may, Ben, my cousin and I would go to grandpa's office, knock on the door, and grandpa would come to the door and say, "What do you boys want? We want a nickel, please." He'd give us a dollar each. And that was a lot of money. And we'd thank him and skip on over to the store and buy a bunch of foolishness. Next Saturday we'd do the same thing, and we'd do that every Saturday until it was time for me to go back to Bluefield. My dad was teaching at Bluefield State. I wonder how much he gave us because every Saturday he give us a dollar each.	32:04
Rhonda Mawhood	So these meetings that were being held in your grandfather's office were White and Black together?	33:10
Emery L. Rann	Oh, yeah. They didn't have any racial mix up at all. I don't remember all the people who were there. I guess there were four or five of them. One of them was, Hatfield was the sheriff of McDowell County, and then grandpa and a Black lawyer, who I wish I had time to tell you some of the tales that this old lawyer had. One thing though, he was living with a White woman and I don't know what happened to his wife. I didn't remember that at all. But anyhow, the powers that be got this lawyer up for having this White woman in the house with him, and this lawyer asked for the floor and he asked the judge, "Do you have a Black woman working for you? Yes. She takes care of my children." And then they ask about four or five other White authorities there what their relationship was, and all of them had Black women working for them in various capacities. He said, "Now what's wrong with me having a White women working at my place?"	33:18
Rhonda Mawhood	They threw the case out.	35:07
Emery L. Rann	But I have a cousin who was in this family in Wilco, who he listened to his mother tell tales about what happened when she was a little girl. And honestly, he can hold you spellbound telling lies about what happened. I don't think they were lies, just experiences that his mother and he himself had, had him growing up in West Virginia. Lord, we have all the history of the family from that side of the family with very little of my dad's side.	35:27
Rhonda Mawhood	I don't want to keep you too long, I want you to fill out the forms, but I just thought of something which you may or may not be able to tell me about or want to tell me about. Did you ever know about anybody in the Black community who actually would pass for White or was passing for White?	36:28
Emery L. Rann	Oh, yes. Yes. On this, we were in the first house. The second house was Ms. Johnson C. Smith's house. And the next house was Dr. Party's house. Party was a Presbyterian minister and he had two children who lived in Chicago and passed for White. He had one daughter who was White sometimes and Black the other times. There was a fellow who lived here, I mean who lived in South Carolina, but who came to school here, played football, Red Williams, he was fair, but not fair enough to pass generally. Sometimes he did, but he married a woman who definitely could pass for White. And his relationship with a White doctor in this town was questionable. He was supposed to have been this man's son. And during his decline, he became addicted to drugs. During this time, his father who practiced here in town, furnished him with drugs, and of course took care of his needs generally. But that whole group is dead now.	36:47
Emery L. Rann	There are other instances, Tate, of course, who was a very prominent businessman here in town, had a large family, part of whom could pass. And same thing is true of, Greer, who was very fair, and he had children who could pass. The thing about it is though, that most of these people who sired children who passed, were children themselves of White men. These White men would come to the cabins and have little fair children. I don't think many of them passed though. It was usually their children who had a modicum of education and culture.	39:11
Rhonda Mawhood	What were the attitudes within the Black community towards people who could pass?	40:58
Emery L. Rann	I would say the relationship was good, just occasionally there would be some ill feelings. But most of the people, as I recall, most of the people who would comment about the relationships that these people had were sympathetic. If you can't get it one way, you get it another. And at that time, the opportunities for Black people was awful. And as an example of that, and I'm sure you've heard these names before, Mr. Yongue, Y-O-N-G-U-E, and what is his name? As well as I know men who worked in the banks in Charlotte and actually were very, very important people in the work, in the banks, but who stayed in their jobs as carriers. "And Johnny come here, sweep the floor, do this." And all of their associates have become big men in the banks. And it was so unfortunate that, Mr. Jackson is the other one, who because of their race, were allowed to go no further than the jobs that they've had and had done expertly all these years, but couldn't advance at all.	41:07
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you, Dr. Rann.	43:20
Rhonda Mawhood	I had been asking you about your father, and do you know what year your father was born, sir?	43:20
Emery L. Rann	1776.	43:43
Rhonda Mawhood	18, I think?	43:43
Emery L. Rann	18. Oh, yes. Now you know it wasn't 19.	43:43
Rhonda Mawhood	And what year did he die?	43:43
Emery L. Rann	19—Lemme See. 1940, plus or minus.	43:43
Rhonda Mawhood	And he was a university teacher?	43:43
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	43:43
Rhonda Mawhood	And could you give me the names of your sisters please, Dr. Rann?	44:50
Emery L. Rann	Esther, Blanche, and Johnsie.	44:50
Rhonda Mawhood	And how do you spell Johnsie?	44:52
Emery L. Rann	J-O-H-N-S-I-E. Dates of birth, 16, 19, 21.	45:00
Rhonda Mawhood	And if you have your children's names and their years of birth?	45:23
Emery L. Rann	Oh, yes. Judith. Emery. I'll get the dates.	45:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Sure.	45:52
Emery L. Rann	Emery the third. And Lara, L-A-R-A. Jonathan. And the baby died. Oh, what is—Flossie. Now Judy was born, oh gosh, '44. Emery was born in '52. Laura was born—She's 13 now, so—	45:54

Emery L. Rann	What year was that in?	0:00
Rhonda Mawhood	I guess if he's eight, it would be '85 or '84, depending on what month he was born.	0:13
Emery L. Rann	I say it was '84.	0:29
Rhonda Mawhood	So he was going to be nine sometime soon?	0:29
Emery L. Rann	Yeah, he'd be nine this year.	0:29
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	0:32
Emery L. Rann	And Flossie, oh gosh, I don't know what year she was born. 19—She died in '82. 30, 45, 86.	0:36
Emery L. Rann	No, that isn't right.	1:06
Rhonda Mawhood	That's fine.	1:20
Emery L. Rann	You remember the paper there. It's quite effective by the way.	1:29
Rhonda Mawhood	I'm sure. Right. I'm sure. That's fine.	1:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you have grandchildren, Dr. Rann?	1:46
Emery L. Rann	Yes. Judy has three kids, and Emery has one. Well, two kids, one by marriage. And that's all.	1:49
Rhonda Mawhood	It's nice. Nice family basically.	2:08
Rhonda Mawhood	All right, and education history. You told me some of the schools that you went to. I'd like to list them. What was the name of the first school you went to in Bluefield? Do you remember?	2:12
Emery L. Rann	Bluefield Institute.	2:32
Rhonda Mawhood	And that was in Bluefield, West Virginia?	2:47
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	3:02
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. And then—	3:02
Emery L. Rann	Second Ward—	3:02
Rhonda Mawhood	Second Ward.	3:02
Emery L. Rann	High School.	3:02
Rhonda Mawhood	What year did you graduate Second Ward?	3:03
Emery L. Rann	1930.	3:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. And then-	3:15
Emery L. Rann	Johnson C Smith.	3:15
Rhonda Mawhood	Johnson C Smith.	3:15
Emery L. Rann	1934, BS.	3:17
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	3:18
Emery L. Rann	University of Michigan, MS, 1936.	3:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	3:31
Emery L. Rann	Meharry Medical College, 1948. Doctor of Science, Johnson C Smith. I've forgotten the date. 1980? I think it was 80.	3:44
Rhonda Mawhood	I have a way to go to catch up.	4:13
Emery L. Rann	Won't be long.	4:22
Rhonda Mawhood	And which of your awards, and honors, and offices would you like me to list for the record? You've mentioned fellowships that you received.	4:30
Emery L. Rann	Yes. I think the one that I really felt good about was Alpha Omega Alpha AOA, which is the Medical Fraternity.	4:40
Emery L. Rann	Sigma Pi Phi, Boule.	5:01
Rhonda Mawhood	And the Alpha Omega Alpha, is that a fraternity?	5:37
Emery L. Rann	Honorary.	5:43
Rhonda Mawhood	An honorary one?	5:43
Emery L. Rann	Mm-hmm.	5:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. And for religion, you are Presbyterian?	5:58
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	6:01
Rhonda Mawhood	And attended, which it's the, is it First Presbyterian Church? What is the name of it?	6:02
Emery L. Rann	No, Memorial.	6:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Memorial. Thank you. I'm sorry. And you've been a member there for over 60 years, I think you were telling me.	6:11
Emery L. Rann	Yes.	6:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. And are there any other activities, or hobbies, or things like that that you would like me to list for the record? Or a phrase or quote? Sometimes people, either there's a quote or a Bible verse or anything like that, that they want that to be known by?	6:25
Emery L. Rann	Well, golf.	6:52
Rhonda Mawhood	Golf, mm-hmm.	6:54
Emery L. Rann	Duplicate Bridge. And in college I participated in football and tennis. But since then, I've only dealt with golf and bridge.	6:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, you did go to medical school after all.	7:31
Emery L. Rann	Okay.	7:38
Rhonda Mawhood	I understand golf to be a doctor's game. (laughs) That's what they tell me anyway.	7:38
Emery L. Rann	Yes, that's true. (laughs)	7:42
Rhonda Mawhood	And is there any comment that you want me to write down here? Phrase or anything like that?	7:48
Emery L. Rann	I can't think of anything.	7:55
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay, thank you.	7:56
Rhonda Mawhood	And I have to get your permission, written permission, for the tape to go into the archive. I'll show you our interview agreement. As I said, we are creating a source base really for the study of African American history in the Jim Crow period. And so, I'll show you the agreement there, the tape and the transcript will go into the archives at Duke University. And then a copy will come back to a Charlotte area. We don't know where yet. It could be Johnson C Smith, it could be Public Library, it could be UNC Charlotte. That hasn't been determined yet, but so it can be used for research.	8:05
Emery L. Rann	That's me.	8:48
Rhonda Mawhood	You would sign on the left and I'll sign on the right.	9:06

Item Info

Title:

Emery Rann interview recording, 1993 June 17

Date:

June 17, 1993

Creator:

Rann, Emery Louvelle

Contributor:

Mawhood, Rhonda Lyn

Description:

Name: Emery Louvelle Rann; Date of birth: 1914-03-09; Place of birth: Keystone, WV; Occupation(s): physician; health services; Residence: Charlotte, NC
Informant ID: 58; Interviewed by: Rhonda Mawhood.

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English

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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Interview number: 267
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Emery Rann interview recording, 1993 June 17

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Item Info

1. Emery Rann administrative file, 1993

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Emery Rann interview recording, 1993 June 17

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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