Willie Golden interview recording, 1993 June 09
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Rhonda Mawhood | How long you've lived in Charlotte? | 0:02 |
Willie E. Golden | All I ever know is Charlotte. I was born in 1921 and I don't know any other place I ever lived— | 0:07 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How— I'm sorry. | 0:21 |
Willie E. Golden | But I was born in South Carolina and when we moved to Charlotte that year I think, I'm not sure. I don't know of any other place. | 0:26 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Are your parents from South Carolina? | 0:41 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes, both parents are from South Carolina. | 0:43 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When you were growing up, did you know your grandparents at all? | 0:48 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes, we knew my grandparents on my mother's side and my grandfather on my father's side. | 0:53 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And so did they move to North Carolina with you, or did— | 1:06 |
Willie E. Golden | My grandfather moved to North Carolina, but my grandmother, I don't think she ever left South Carolina, ever. | 1:07 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kinds of things do you remember about your grandparents, Mr. Golden? | 1:12 |
Willie E. Golden | Well, I know my grandmother more so than my grandfather, she was a very religious person. She got up praying, went to bed praying, and we had to fall in that same procedure. | 1:13 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So your family was a religious family? | 1:48 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes. | 1:52 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What church did you go to? | 1:54 |
Willie E. Golden | When I was a child, we went to Pleasant Hill Baptist Church. It's out in Cherry, the section we call Cherry. | 1:58 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kinds of things do you remember about church about when you were a little boy? | 2:11 |
Willie E. Golden | I know every Sunday we had to make it to church. We were proud of our attendance record, going to church. Seemed like we just lived in church. | 2:26 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you go to church other days of the week as well? | 2:47 |
Willie E. Golden | Went to church Wednesday night with prayer meeting. But as I grew older, I kind of strayed away from it. When I got about 15 years old, I lost interest in it, but rest of my family kept going. I had some other things to do. | 2:50 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How did your parents react to that when you stopped going to church? | 3:16 |
Willie E. Golden | Well, they didn't bribe me then, they just say I should go. Right up until they died, they was telling me that I should go, but I didn't see the benefit no more than for funerals. I didn't think you had to go to church just to go to a funeral. | 3:21 |
Rhonda Mawhood | This is a personal question, but did you have faith yourself? | 3:58 |
Willie E. Golden | Faith? | 4:04 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Belief of your own? | 4:05 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh yes. I still have a strong belief in God, if that's what you speak of. I still have a strong belief in God, but I don't think I believe in the type God that the rest of my family believed in. | 4:13 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kind of God was that, that they believed in? | 4:29 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh, they believed you got rewarded and punished by some act of your own. I don't believe that. | 4:34 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You don't believe that God rewards and punishes? | 4:48 |
Willie E. Golden | No. I think you reward yourself and punishes yourself for something you fail to do or something you've done. I think it's not God's doing. | 4:50 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I see. Thank you. Do you remember the church that your parents went to, the Pleasant Hill Baptist Church being involved in civic affairs and neighborhood affairs? | 5:13 |
Willie E. Golden | As far as I can remember, they were particularly concerned with the church work. They never endeavor into political or any community things. It was mostly connected with the church. | 5:25 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay. Thank you. You said that Pleasant Hill Baptist Church was in Cherry. Did you grow up in Cherry? | 5:44 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes. | 5:53 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Can you tell me a little bit about that? | 5:54 |
Willie E. Golden | Cherry was bound by West Morehead on the South, and Sugar Creek on the west and Queens Road on the east, and Full Street on the north. And everybody knew everybody within that boundary. | 6:00 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kinds of people lived in Cherry when you were growing up? | 6:28 |
Willie E. Golden | I thought it was the best part of town. It was real quiet and everybody would discipline anybody else's child, and sometime to the degree that they would spank you and would come and tell your mother about it. But that never happened to me. I know that it happened to other kids because I avoided all the spankings I could get. | 6:38 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Were you better than other children or were you better at avoiding spanking? | 7:20 |
Willie E. Golden | I think I was better avoiding spanking. That was instilled into me to this day to avoid any kind of punishments. | 7:26 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How did you manage to avoid— | 7:42 |
Willie E. Golden | Huh? | 7:44 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How did you manage to avoid the spankings, do you remember? | 7:44 |
Willie E. Golden | I did what I was told. | 7:49 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Who was the most important person in that neighborhood to you? Was there one person who you looked up to in particular? | 7:49 |
Willie E. Golden | Well, I had a Sunday school teacher that I admired a great deal, and who told me once that— I want to get it right. He says that one thing about Blacks, they were afraid of responsibilities. He said that anytime you ask them to be responsible for something, they want to shy away from it. And I never felt like I would fall in that category. Every time a task came up, I wanted to solve it or be a part of it. And it was due to him saying that to me, I guess. | 8:05 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kinds of tasks would you take up in trying to follow? | 9:34 |
Willie E. Golden | Is that what you're saying? Oh, let's see. Say in my classroom from the first grade up, I had the idea that if anybody could do it, any other person could do it, I could also. I think that did me well. | 9:41 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you play with the other children in your neighborhood? | 10:18 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh yes. Sure. | 10:23 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kinds of games did you play when you were younger? | 10:24 |
Willie E. Golden | When we played, we played the same thing we saw on the Saturday evening movies, Westerns and Tarzan with a broomstick for a horse, or little old wooden guns and whatnot, and swinging on grapevines and stuff. | 10:30 |
Rhonda Mawhood | As you got older, as you got into I guess your teenage years, what did you and your friends do for fun? | 11:02 |
Willie E. Golden | Teenage years were the working years. I started working while I was in high school as a pin boy. I got 3 cent a game setting up pins. | 11:09 |
Rhonda Mawhood | In a bowling alley? | 11:23 |
Willie E. Golden | In a bowling alley. Mm-hmm. | 11:24 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When did you work in the bowling alley? | 11:34 |
Willie E. Golden | At night. I would go to the bowl night at four o'clock in the afternoon and stay till about 10:00 or 11:00. | 11:36 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And then go to school? | 11:47 |
Willie E. Golden | Go to school at 5:00 in the morning. | 11:49 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you keep the money you made? | 11:52 |
Willie E. Golden | I contributed to whatever was needed within the house, but I was never told that I owed anything. They would ask that I give my brother and sister something and I would do those. Didn't have to support them, anything like that, but I had to divide with them what I earned. | 11:57 |
Rhonda Mawhood | The money that you got to keep for yourself, what did you spend that on? Do you remember? | 12:36 |
Willie E. Golden | Mostly clothes. Mostly clothes. | 12:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you remember what kind of clothes you bought with the money? | 12:47 |
Willie E. Golden | I thought it was better than the average. I thought it was better than the average. I don't know whether it was or not, but I used to go to a shoe store called Lebo's. They had a shoe for $3.15 and one for $3.35, and I'd always buy the $3.35. That was early part of my— when I first started buying anything. But after that, I would shop where the rich people shopped. Sure did. And thought that they were doing something special. I found out later that it wasn't so special. | 12:51 |
Rhonda Mawhood | The stores that you shopped at, did White people own them or Black people own them? | 13:58 |
Willie E. Golden | White people owned every store that I shopped in. There wasn't any clothing store owned by Blacks. There were some Blacks that would measure for clothes though. I would have them to measure me for clothes. | 14:06 |
Rhonda Mawhood | In the store? | 14:24 |
Willie E. Golden | No, from their home. | 14:25 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I see. | 14:27 |
Willie E. Golden | The suits were tailored by White manufacturers and sent through the mail. | 14:30 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Were you the oldest in your family? | 14:43 |
Willie E. Golden | No, no, no, no. I'm the third child in my family. | 14:45 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So how many of you are there? | 14:46 |
Willie E. Golden | It was four of us. I had a older brother and a older sister. | 14:52 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Besides working at the bowling alley, what kinds of things did you and your brothers and sisters have to do around the house? | 15:10 |
Willie E. Golden | Around the house, we had to see that everything in order around the house, like cleaning up and washing the clothes. We didn't have to iron any, but we would have to wash. My job was kindling the fire so they could boil the clothes in some pot. And my sisters, they would wash the clothes. | 15:21 |
Willie E. Golden | We had pets that entertained us. Where we lived, my family lived in the part of Cherry that was owned by the Episcopal Church. The Episcopal Church had an orphan home there. I think as far as I can remember, my father said it was $10 a week and there was four of us, four children and my mother. We ran an account at a local convenience store to get our food and stuff. If we came home from school, we could go down there and get a can of beans or loaf of bread and stuff like that. | 15:53 |
Willie E. Golden | But this orphan home where my father worked, they had a lot of items given to them by the city of a group of people. I don't know where it come from, maybe church people or something. Clothing items. And what they threw away, we got. Our family got what they didn't want. Some items sometimes would be worth keeping. But we did get a lot of food stuff from there. They raised a lot of— They had milk cows and hogs. And so that supplemented that $10 a week. | 17:12 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What did your father do at the orphanage? | 18:27 |
Willie E. Golden | He was what you call kind of a handy man, which was handy with ply and a mule. Did a lot of that. And in the wintertime he kept the furnace going to heat the whole units, every unit on the place, and had to haul ice to the various cottages and whatnot. But tried to groom me for that. I did what I could, but it wasn't what I liked to do. | 18:29 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Why didn't you like that kind of work? | 19:16 |
Willie E. Golden | Why? | 19:17 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Why? | 19:17 |
Willie E. Golden | It just seemed dumb. It was dumber than setting those pins. You had to be what you call it, to get down in the pit and put those pins up. You had to be on the ball before somebody threw a ball in there. | 19:22 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What about your mother, Mr. Golden, what did she do? | 19:56 |
Willie E. Golden | She worked as a maid but not regularly. Just off and on she would work. I don't know how she determined that. She went when she wanted to. | 20:00 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Were there any parts of town that you weren't supposed to go to? | 20:22 |
Willie E. Golden | No, not that I know of. But we knew there was some parts we feared to go. | 20:32 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Like where was that? | 20:37 |
Willie E. Golden | Third Ward in Greenville, because the kids would rock you. They'd rock you from when they— And vice versa. They didn't want to come to Cherry. Come over there, we rocked them. | 20:40 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You mean throw rocks at them? Why was there— | 20:56 |
Willie E. Golden | Why, it was out of territory, I guess. That's all I know. You were just out of your territory. | 21:01 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did— I'm sorry. | 21:22 |
Willie E. Golden | Just like some birds or something. You're out of your territory, you get picked on. | 21:22 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Which high school did you go to? | 21:27 |
Willie E. Golden | The only one they had, Second Ward High. | 21:29 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I should backtrack a little bit to ask you about your education. Where did you first go to school? | 21:37 |
Willie E. Golden | My first schooling was at Morgan School there in Cherry, elementary school. And grades were one through seven. | 21:44 |
Rhonda Mawhood | From there you went to the Second Ward school? | 22:03 |
Willie E. Golden | Second Ward. It was from eight to 11. And 12th was optional. I took the 11th. | 22:09 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kinds of things do you remember learning in school? | 22:19 |
Willie E. Golden | Tell you what I learned in particular in eighth grade. We had been entertained with the idea that we wanted a band because Central High School had one. Central, which was all White. We petitioned the principal about getting us on the road to acquiring a band. I don't know what teacher was involved in that attempt, but they got the band director from Central to come speak to us about how we go about getting the band. | 22:30 |
Willie E. Golden | The only thing that I remember about the band was the discouragement about having a band because he told us that Negro lips were too big to play any instrument, those woods and winds, whatnot, they were too big. They have a problem with the band. From what I can gather, his last name was Sides. S-I-D-E-S, Sides, E.R. Sides, something similar to that anyway. | 23:28 |
Willie E. Golden | I couldn't understand why he would say that when there were a number of popular bands, orchestras, Black orchestras all over the country. Someone said that we couldn't play a horn because our lips were too big. | 24:22 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did anyone say anything about that to him? | 24:46 |
Willie E. Golden | No, they didn't make any issue out of it. Just took it and didn't try to pursue it anymore. As far I know they didn't get advantage until long after I left. | 24:56 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Thank you. When you left high school, did you go to work then? | 25:17 |
Willie E. Golden | I went to work at the Mercy Hospital here in Charlotte. Mercy Hospital, still in operating room. I was over as an orderly. I worked from 7:00 to 7:00 for $7 a week. | 25:30 |
Rhonda Mawhood | 7:00 in the morning to 7:00 in the evening? | 25:44 |
Willie E. Golden | 7:00 in the evening to 7:00 in the morning. That was my first job, my first, what you call it, formal job. I was out of place there as an orderly. All that blood and hollering and stuff, it was not my cup of tea. I had to find me something else to do. So one day I left there. I think I got three days pay still over there somewhere, because he kept three days. I left there and went to Washington, D.C and start setting pins up there. Got forced in a game up there. | 25:48 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How long did you do that in Washington? | 27:16 |
Willie E. Golden | I didn't do that for about a year or two. And then I went to Newport News, Virginia because my brother had moved there. I stayed with him while I worked in the shipyard. Worked in the shipyard till I was drafted. | 27:19 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You were drafted? | 27:39 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah. I may have not been drafted and I'd come home one day on vacation. | 27:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Home to Charlotte? | 27:50 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah. But soon after I returned back to work, I was drafted. I don't think they wanted anyone to take off for any reason. I don't know. It might not have been that, but maybe I was going to be drafted anyway. But I just took it that it was because I had left without permission. | 27:54 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When you were drafted, where were you drafted? | 28:23 |
Willie E. Golden | I was inducted into the Army there in Virginia at Camp Lee, and went through basic training in Louisiana, Camp Cleaver. | 28:26 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Were you sent overseas? | 28:50 |
Willie E. Golden | My outfit left for overseas, but I didn't go with them. I was told to stay in camp, not to go out for any reason, and a fellow and I went anyway. I come back, the whole company was gone. So they put us with a makeup outfit called Replacement Depot, or Repo Depo they called it, replacements. I ended up in the infantry, which the first one was a service company. | 28:56 |
Willie E. Golden | I ended up in the infantry with guns and things. Went over to little old place out from— a place out of Japan. They say its supposed to be a rope. The name of the island is rope in English. | 30:00 |
Rhonda Mawhood | That's Okinawa. | 30:42 |
Willie E. Golden | Okinawa, yeah. Anyway, it was a little island out from Okinawa called— What was it called? I can't think of it right now. Anyway, about as big as this neighborhood. | 30:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kinds of memories do you have of being in the army? | 31:13 |
Willie E. Golden | In the Army? | 31:15 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Mm-hmm. | 31:15 |
Willie E. Golden | There was another place that I wasn't supposed to be. I couldn't fit in the Army. | 31:20 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Why was that, Mr. Golden? | 31:26 |
Willie E. Golden | Well, I didn't mind taking orders. I didn't mind taking orders, but I misconstrued so much. I couldn't express myself too well. Things that I wanted to say, I wouldn't say. I had been stammered from saying what I want to say. I've never been able to express myself like I want to. I don't know why that come about. I think it has something to do with not being self-assured as I could have been under other circumstances and stuff. | 31:45 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Would you like to answer? | 32:46 |
Willie E. Golden | No. | 32:46 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I see. When the war was over, you left the Army? | 32:55 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh yeah. They were trying to get us to reenlist, give us a spiel you never heard before, like you were doing something awful by not reenlisting in the— Didn't bother me. The only thing I got out of it was, I'd say the only thing is a chance to go to school, college. I went out to Johnson C. Smith and finished. That's the only thing I can say was worth being in the Army for. | 32:59 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When you went to Johnson C. Smith, what did you study? | 33:55 |
Willie E. Golden | I wanted to get into the field of law, but they only had philosophy and government. Something leading up to more the political science. That's what they had there. So what I did was majored in religious education. | 33:57 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So you stopped going to church when you were 15, but you majored in religious education? | 34:45 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 35:03 |
Rhonda Mawhood | That's interesting. | 35:04 |
Willie E. Golden | I want to know why did I stop. That's what I was trying to find out. Why did I stop? | 35:08 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And did you come to a conclusion? | 35:12 |
Willie E. Golden | I think so. I was right in the first place. | 35:12 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How many years did you study religious education at Johnson C. Smith? | 35:31 |
Willie E. Golden | I got my degree in it. | 35:38 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And so then what did you do after that? | 35:46 |
Willie E. Golden | I went to work for the post office. | 35:50 |
Rhonda Mawhood | While you were at Johnson C. Smith studying religious education, did you get into any debates with your professors or your fellow students? | 36:00 |
Willie E. Golden | Well, not any debates as such. Just some disagreement within the classroom on certain items, but no debate. I never was in the debating team or anything of that sort. | 36:11 |
Rhonda Mawhood | But you had disagreements? | 36:29 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes. | 36:35 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What were these disagreements usually about? | 36:37 |
Willie E. Golden | Well, there was a psychology professor that told his class, "If you come in this classroom, you're going to have to leave God on the outside." And we would go in there and try to sneak God in there. Just want to see, why couldn't He come in there too? But I think the professor won the argument. | 36:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So when you left Johnson C. Smith and went to work at the post office, what were you doing at the post office? | 37:38 |
Willie E. Golden | I was a postal clerk. I had put in an application at the post office and passed the test. And I was told about, I guess it must have been two or three years after I had put in the application that my name had come up to be called twice and they passed over. And the third time it came up, I don't know how many envelopes it was, but the third time it came up, they had to hire me. I don't know what was going on there, but they say they had to hire me at the third time. I don't know what year that was or what, but whoever was in charge was saying that's what had happened to my name. | 37:49 |
Willie E. Golden | When I went there, I'm guessing more than 12 Black employees. I don't know. I really don't know how many. There was few of us. And the clerk position was the last to be filled by a Black. They had a lot of carriers, but they didn't have any clerks. | 38:56 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How were relations on the job between the White and the Black employees? | 39:35 |
Willie E. Golden | I don't think there was any problem there until they started putting Blacks in charge and stuff. I don't know any flare up in that particular case, but I know in an instance where the superintendent, or what else you call them, whoever's in charge, clerk in charge give you permission to do something, maybe tell somebody what to do and they felt like they didn't want to do anything that you say to do. And they changed jobs altogether. Leave the clerk position to go out to be a carrier, to keep from doing what a Black told them to do. | 39:43 |
Willie E. Golden | That occurred in an instance with me in particular. I was not a supervisor, but the supervisor had dedicated me that authority to get this done and, "Ask anyone that you see available to help." So I did that, and one fellow in particular, just went outside to keep from working inside. | 40:55 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you tell the supervisor that that had happened? | 41:36 |
Willie E. Golden | He knows. He knew. | 41:36 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And the supervisor was a White man or a Black man? | 41:44 |
Willie E. Golden | White. | 41:46 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you get along well with him? | 41:51 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh yes. Oh yes. I got along with the supervisor. I never had any problem with supervisors. No problem till I was about ready to retire. | 41:52 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And then what happened? | 42:13 |
Willie E. Golden | It wasn't anything to talk about it, just personality clashing. | 42:17 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So you stayed at the post office until you retired? | 42:27 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 42:30 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I see. Mr. Golden, did you marry? | 42:30 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes. I was married in '52 up to '88. My wife died in '88. | 42:46 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Where did you meet your wife? | 42:53 |
Willie E. Golden | I met my wife at a dance. A friend of mine introduced me to my wife. | 42:57 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Was she from Charlotte also? | 43:16 |
Willie E. Golden | No, no. She was from a little town in eastern part of North Carolina, right out from Rockingham. It was called Ellerbe. | 43:20 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you court for very long? | 43:40 |
Willie E. Golden | No, about two months. | 43:44 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Two months, really? | 43:46 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes, about two months. | 44:01 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What did your family think, your parents think when you decided to get married? | 44:01 |
Willie E. Golden | I didn't let them think too long on that. I think that's why it was so— They didn't say anything about it. It was about time. I was 30 years old. So if I didn't know what I was doing then, I never would. | 44:07 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And so had you lived at home until you married or did you live on your own? | 44:38 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes. | 44:47 |
Rhonda Mawhood | At home? | 44:47 |
Willie E. Golden | Mm-hmm. | 44:47 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And then where did you and your wife live once you married? | 44:47 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh, when we first got married, we lived when Brook Hill Village in the apartments. Brook Hill Village apartments. | 44:50 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And then— | 45:05 |
Willie E. Golden | We moved here. Yeah. | 45:06 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you have children? Do you have children? | 45:06 |
Willie E. Golden | No, but my wife's sister stayed with us till she finished college. She came to stay with us at 12. | 45:12 |
Rhonda Mawhood | At 12? | 45:19 |
Willie E. Golden | She was 12 and she went to Bennett, finished Bennett. Then she married and left and went to Maryland. She lives in Maryland now. That's her family right there. | 45:22 |
Rhonda Mawhood | She has children too. | 45:40 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah. She has two boys. Her husband died when he was 40. That little fellow right there in the corner there, that's him right there. | 45:41 |
Rhonda Mawhood | He's a very handsome young man. | 46:15 |
Willie E. Golden | He went to Southern in Louisiana. He's supposed to come out this year, but some reason it didn't. He got to go back because you left something down there, incompletes or something. | 46:15 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So what kind of work did your wife do, Mr. Golden? | 46:22 |
Willie E. Golden | She was a public health nurse. | 46:32 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Since you were single for so long, did you have other single male friends who you would hang out with? | 46:47 |
Willie E. Golden | Two. Hmm-hmm. | 46:57 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So you weren't the only one? | 47:01 |
Willie E. Golden | I was the last one. I was the last one among my friends to get married. | 47:10 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did they ever tease you about that? | 47:16 |
Willie E. Golden | No, I wouldn't let them. | 47:16 |
Rhonda Mawhood | But they tried? | 47:20 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Since I've been in Charlotte I've heard about a neighborhood that you might be able to tell me something about, I don't know, a neighborhood called or a section called Blue Heaven. | 0:01 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes. | 0:10 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You ever heard of that one? | 0:10 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah. | 0:13 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you ever go there? | 0:13 |
Willie E. Golden | That was just east of Cherry. | 0:16 |
Rhonda Mawhood | East of Cherry, okay. | 0:18 |
Willie E. Golden | Mm-hmm. Only difference, Blue Heaven was from Cherry is it was on the other side of the creek. The houses that were over there were very much like the ones that lived in Cherry. Mostly rental units and about four rooms, some of them three rooms. | 0:26 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Were the people who lived in Blue Heaven any different from the people who lived in— | 0:57 |
Willie E. Golden | No. My best friends lived in Blue Heaven, some of them, when I went to school with. | 1:11 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you go over there to visit them? | 1:21 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh yeah. No problem there. | 1:21 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I've been told that there were bars there more than there were in other parts. | 1:29 |
Willie E. Golden | I don't know about bars, but I think what they were referring to was what you call boot leg houses. There were a number of boot leg houses. Where white whiskey was sold and they did that to pay their rent. The people didn't have jobs. They would, I don't know where they would get all this liquor from, but they would sell it then send a shot, sell fish and hot dogs and anything to pay the rent. Some people got real well off selling white liquor. They sure did. I understand that one of these wholesale florists was the result of a bootlegger. | 1:34 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Hm. Interesting. Thank you. Were you ever a member of any organizations, clubs or things like that? | 2:55 |
Willie E. Golden | I used to be a member of the Masons and I'm still a member of a club we call the Scorpions Club, which is a social club. | 3:15 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What's the name of that one? I'm sorry. | 3:28 |
Willie E. Golden | Scorpion. | 3:29 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Scorpion Club. Is that for men and women or just men? | 3:30 |
Willie E. Golden | Men, and they mainly plan vacations and picnics and things. | 3:43 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You're not a Mason anymore? | 3:57 |
Willie E. Golden | No. No. | 3:58 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Was there a particular reason why you left? | 3:58 |
Willie E. Golden | Was too much like church. You never knew where that money was going. | 4:05 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Really? | 4:10 |
Willie E. Golden | I didn't know where the money was going. They probably knew where it was going. Oh, we sending it somewhere. I'd like to know where my money goes. | 4:13 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I'd like to ask you before we finish up, I'd like to ask you directly about segregation. What were the signs of segregation to you when you think of segregation? | 4:38 |
Willie E. Golden | When you think of segregation? What it says to me, it just says that you are not as good as I am. Something that tears at your innards. I don't know whether it affect anybody else like it affect me, but only way I beared it, was grinning. I try not to let anybody know it affect me so deeply. It's an expression that my mother used, say it hurt to the quick, if you know what that means. You just do the best you can under those circumstances. Those are the things I was trying to say about expressing yourself. It brings back some memories sometimes that you'd rather forget. | 4:55 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You were saying that you would bear segregation like— | 6:28 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh, you talking about what it meant to me? Yes. I don't know whether I'd have been any better off had I been born later or not but I think I would have. I think I'd have been better off. | 6:49 |
Rhonda Mawhood | This might be too personal. I know you said that it was very difficult for you, so tell me to stop if you want me to. Do you remember riding the street cars? | 7:36 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh yes. We used to ride the street cars after church on Sundays. Go out to the end of the line and turn around and come back. You could ride for 7 cents, go on 7 cents back. We could go out to the end of the line, go out, take pictures. It was a fun time. | 7:50 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did your parents explain anything about segregation to you? | 8:21 |
Willie E. Golden | My parents, the only thing she ever say to me about the differences in race was when I went through the department store, don't touch anything. That was about all she ever said me about it. | 8:30 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Why did she tell you not to touch anything in the department store, Mr. Golden? | 8:57 |
Willie E. Golden | I don't know no more than that. Somebody may have thought you may put something in your pocket or something, but she would tell us, don't touch anything. Keep your hands on. I knew who the department store belongs to. That's all I ever known about segregation, is don't touch anything. | 9:04 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did your parents explain to you things like which water fountain you were supposed to use? | 9:38 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh no. They didn't have to you. I grew up knowing that. You saw these signs and nobody had to tell you. | 9:50 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When you were a little boy, did you ever play with any White children? | 10:09 |
Willie E. Golden | Sure. I played with them, especially those orphans I was telling you about. They were all White. They would come down, spend day with— the whole day playing around too. | 10:11 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Was there a point at which you stopped associating like that? | 10:35 |
Willie E. Golden | Well, I think after grade school it seemed to cut off after grade school. They went their way and you went yours. | 10:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How did your parents teach you to address adults when you were a child? | 11:11 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh, well, just as I do right now. Any elder person is mister or missus Black or White, they was mister or missus. | 11:20 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you remember a point at which people stopped treating you as a child and began treating you as an adult? Do you remember when that was? | 11:35 |
Willie E. Golden | I don't think I ever been treated as an adult. | 11:54 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Why is that? | 11:59 |
Willie E. Golden | Everybody seem to know more than I do. They want to tell me what to do. I still seem to think that the only way to bear with it is ignore it and do what you want to because I've always been told what to do. | 12:03 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Why is that? | 12:29 |
Willie E. Golden | I don't know. I don't know why. Maybe it just seemed that way and I have kind of a rebellious attitude about that. Might be for the better that I do what they say do, but I won't. | 12:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Are there things that I haven't asked you about? | 13:10 |
Willie E. Golden | Are there things? | 13:14 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Are there things that I haven't asked you about that you think are important? | 13:15 |
Willie E. Golden | That you ought to know? | 13:21 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Or that other people ought to know that ought to be preserved? | 13:21 |
Willie E. Golden | I can't think of anything. All in all, I have no regrets about what has happened to me, what to expect. I don't have any regrets about what to expect because I know it's not going to be to my liking. | 13:41 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I do have a couple questions and then I'll start packing up but I was wondering when you first voted. | 14:11 |
Willie E. Golden | When I first got a chance? | 14:12 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When was that, sir? | 14:12 |
Willie E. Golden | I can't remember, but when I first voted, I don't know what I voted for or what, but I know as early as I could and soon as I could, I voted for what I could. | 14:18 |
Rhonda Mawhood | In Charlotte, did your parents vote? For example, do you remember your parents voting? | 14:43 |
Willie E. Golden | My mother voted. My father didn't vote. | 14:48 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you know why that was? | 14:49 |
Willie E. Golden | Well, I think he had a little problem reading and he hated to reveal that. | 14:53 |
Rhonda Mawhood | But your mother could read? | 15:08 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes. | 15:10 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did your wife vote? | 15:14 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh yes. | 15:16 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you remember your mother reading to your father? | 15:16 |
Willie E. Golden | Reading to my father? Uh-uh. Nope. | 15:24 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You knew somehow that he had a problem? | 15:31 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes. | 15:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How did your family get news? | 15:39 |
Willie E. Golden | How did they get news? Other than the radio and the newspapers? | 15:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | They got news through the radio and the newspaper? | 15:50 |
Willie E. Golden | Mm-hmm. | 15:57 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay. When you were married, did you and your wife make decisions together? Or would one of you take more of a decision making role? | 15:59 |
Willie E. Golden | I think we did everything together. Yes, we made decisions together. | 16:10 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Was that the way that your parents had done it as well? | 16:24 |
Willie E. Golden | Yes. | 16:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Well, thank you very much. | 16:42 |
Willie E. Golden | You're welcome very much. I wish I had something to tell you. | 16:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You do. You have. You're very interesting to listen to. I have to ask you a few more questions just about your family. We have this biographical information and family history, just so that we can figure out who people are in relation to others. It shouldn't take too long. | 16:47 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 17:02 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay? Your last name is spelled G-O-L-D-E-N? | 17:07 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 17:09 |
Rhonda Mawhood | your middle name Mr. Golden? | 17:13 |
Willie E. Golden | Earl. | 17:17 |
Rhonda Mawhood | E-A-R-L? | 17:17 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 17:21 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Your first name? | 17:21 |
Willie E. Golden | Willie. | 17:21 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When the transcript of this interview is typed up and your name is on the sheet, how would you like your name to appear? Do you like Willie Golden or Willie Earl Golden? | 17:27 |
Willie E. Golden | Willie E. Golden. | 17:45 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay. Could you tell me your date of birth, please sir? | 17:59 |
Willie E. Golden | July 22nd '21. | 18:03 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You were born in South Carolina. Do you know where in South Carolina? | 18:06 |
Willie E. Golden | Laurens. L-A-U-R-E-N-S. Laurens County. | 18:13 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What was your wife's name, sir? | 18:27 |
Willie E. Golden | Mrs. G. Wamble. W-A-M-B-L-E. | 18:32 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When was your wife born, Mr. Golden? | 18:51 |
Willie E. Golden | November 8th, '28. | 19:12 |
Rhonda Mawhood | She died in 1988? | 19:12 |
Willie E. Golden | Mm-hmm. | 19:12 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Was your wife born in Ellerbe, North Carolina? | 19:12 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah. | 19:15 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Could you give me your mother's name, please? | 19:32 |
Willie E. Golden | Betty. She didn't have a middle name. | 19:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Her maiden name? | 19:33 |
Willie E. Golden | Adkins. A-D-K-I-N-S. | 19:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you know what year your mother was born, Mr. Golden? | 19:33 |
Willie E. Golden | No, I don't know. | 19:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you know where she was born? | 19:33 |
Willie E. Golden | She was born in Laurens County too. | 19:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Your father's name? | 19:33 |
Willie E. Golden | Benjamin. He does have a middle name. Harrison. | 19:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Harrison. | 19:33 |
Willie E. Golden | Named after a president. | 19:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you know what year your father was born? | 19:33 |
Willie E. Golden | No. I think I got something here with it on it. It'll take me some time to find it though. | 20:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | That's all right. | 20:44 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Was he born in Laurens County? | 20:46 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah. | 20:55 |
Rhonda Mawhood | For his occupation, what should I put down? | 20:55 |
Willie E. Golden | The best thing that would describe his job was janitor. | 21:01 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I'd like to ask you the names of your sisters and brothers also? | 21:25 |
Willie E. Golden | My brother, Arthur Golden. | 21:28 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you know— | 21:28 |
Willie E. Golden | Cora. | 21:28 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I'm sorry? | 21:28 |
Willie E. Golden | My sister, Cora. | 21:28 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Yes, Cora. | 21:28 |
Willie E. Golden | Cora Golden, and Mildred Loraine. | 21:28 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Mildred Loraine? | 21:28 |
Willie E. Golden | Loraine. | 21:28 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you know what years any of them were born? Do you remember? | 21:28 |
Willie E. Golden | I know the dates, but I don't know the year. | 21:28 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay, that's fine. You were the third child in the family? | 21:28 |
Willie E. Golden | Right | 21:28 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay. You lived in Washington D.C. for a little while, is that right? | 22:35 |
Willie E. Golden | About a year, I guess. | 22:39 |
Rhonda Mawhood | That was around what year? | 22:39 |
Willie E. Golden | '39. | 22:39 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Then you lived in Virginia? | 22:39 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah, briefly. That was '41 to, I was there when Pearl Harbor was bombed, until I was drafted. | 23:04 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I'm going to list the schools that you've gone to. First one was Morgan School? | 23:22 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 23:27 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You went there from grades one to seven? | 23:27 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 23:38 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Then, went to Second Ward? | 23:38 |
Willie E. Golden | We were disappointed because we had to go to school with— | 23:45 |
Rhonda Mawhood | At seventh? | 24:00 |
Willie E. Golden | At the elementary school. Before that, the class that I was in, they extended the school to the seventh grade. We thought we were going to the high school in the seventh grade. We all went over there and had to come back to come back to the elementary school. My class always got mixed up with something. They had to do something out of the ordinary. Just like we had an option to finish at 11 or 12. I don't know why I got in that dumb group that always something different about them. That's been my life. | 24:01 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Maybe it's more interesting that way. What year did you graduate from Second Ward? | 24:55 |
Willie E. Golden | '38. | 25:02 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Then you went to Johnson C Smith and what year did you graduate from Smith? | 25:02 |
Willie E. Golden | '50. Class of '50. That was my class, but I was out of there before then. | 25:02 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Oh, really? | 25:02 |
Willie E. Golden | I was out in '49. | 25:02 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You finished in the winter? | 25:46 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah. | 25:53 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Let me see, your work history. You were a pin setter, and then you went into, you were in Mercy Hospital, orderly. | 25:53 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 26:34 |
Rhonda Mawhood | That was right when you came out of high school? | 26:35 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 26:35 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay. Then you were in the Army. What dates were you in the Army, Mr. Golden, from 1941 to? | 26:35 |
Willie E. Golden | No, let's see. It was '42 to '44 I believe it was. | 27:02 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Then when you got out of the Army? | 27:09 |
Willie E. Golden | I went to school. | 27:11 |
Rhonda Mawhood | To school. Then you worked for the post office afterwards. From I guess 1949 when you finished Smith, was 1948? | 27:27 |
Willie E. Golden | '48. | 27:34 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Then when did you retire, sir? | 27:40 |
Willie E. Golden | 78. April 24. | 27:40 |
Rhonda Mawhood | All right. Let's see. We're supposed to write down if you've held any offices, if you've in any of the organizations you've been a part of, have you? | 27:40 |
Willie E. Golden | No. | 28:14 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Your religious history, you're not a member of a church at present, or are you? | 28:19 |
Willie E. Golden | No, I'm not affiliated with any church. | 28:26 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When you were a child, you went to Pleasant Hill Baptist? | 28:35 |
Willie E. Golden | Baptist Church. | 28:38 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You were a member of the Masons at one time? | 28:57 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah. | 29:01 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you remember at what date? | 29:01 |
Willie E. Golden | No. No, but it was in the fifties. | 29:09 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You're a member of the Scorpion. When did you join that one? Do you remember? | 29:15 |
Willie E. Golden | I think that was about '50. | 29:41 |
Rhonda Mawhood | You're still a member? | 29:41 |
Willie E. Golden | Right. | 29:41 |
Rhonda Mawhood | The last question is whether there are any other activities or hobbies or things that you would like me to write down for the record? | 29:43 |
Willie E. Golden | Hobbies. I guess you could put fishing down there. | 29:52 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Where did you go fishing, Mr. Golden? | 30:01 |
Willie E. Golden | Outer Banks, Wilmington, Key West Road. | 30:03 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Good places. Okay. Is there any saying or quote or something like that that you'd like me to put down? We've been asking some people Bible verses, but I don't know if you want to be remembered by Bible verse. | 30:11 |
Willie E. Golden | Oh no. I don't know anything. | 30:26 |
Rhonda Mawhood | That's fine. Thank you very much. All right. Very last thing is I have to get your signature on a permission form to use this interview because as you know, the tape and the transcript will go into a library. One at Duke, and then one here in Charlotte, which we haven't decided which one yet. People who want to do research, people like me, for example, will go in and listen to the tapes, and then if they want to write about life during segregation then these are sources they will use, but they can't use them unless you sign a form saying that that's all right with you. | 30:27 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So there are two forms. One is just an interview agreement where you say that anyone can use it. The other one is with restrictions. If there's some restriction you'd like to put on it, such as someone having to get your permission to quote you, for example, we could write that on, then we would sign that one. That was that piece. | 31:26 |
Willie E. Golden | Okay. Do I get one? | 31:43 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you get one? A tape? | 31:48 |
Willie E. Golden | Yeah. | 31:51 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Unfortunately we can't promise to get copies because you would sign down here once you've read it. When it comes back to Charlotte— | 31:51 |
Willie E. Golden | Right on this line? | 32:03 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Yes, thank you. | 32:08 |
Willie E. Golden | Okay. | 32:08 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I would love to be able to give you one. I'm sorry but there are so many people we're interviewing that we don't have the labor power to make all the copies yet. I'll sign the other side. This you don't have to sign. This would be if you wanted to place restrictions on. | 32:09 |
Willie E. Golden | No. Okay. | 32:32 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I'll just keep that one for somebody else. | 32:32 |
Willie E. Golden | Okie doke. You want the date on here? | 32:32 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Yes, please. Then I'll sign the other side, because my voice is on the tape too. | 32:32 |
Willie E. Golden | Peggy Lee used to sing a song or something about, is that all there is? Is that all there? | 32:32 |
Rhonda Mawhood | That's right. | 32:32 |
Willie E. Golden | That's what I like to put on this, is that all there is? | 32:32 |
Rhonda Mawhood | All right. | 32:32 |
Item Info
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