Sue Russell interview recording, 1994 August 05

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Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, could you tell me about where you were born, and what it was like to grow up in the area that you lived at?	0:02
Sue Kelker Russell	When I was born?	0:10
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	0:11
Sue Kelker Russell	I was born August the 25th, 1909.	0:12
Paul Ortiz	Were you born in this area?	0:23
Sue Kelker Russell	In Milton, Florida.	0:25
Paul Ortiz	Milton, Florida.	0:27
Sue Kelker Russell	Santa Rosa County.	0:28
Paul Ortiz	What are your earliest childhood memories of Milton? What are your earliest childhood memories of Milton?	0:35
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, it wasn't a big town, and we got along fairly well. The biggest problem we had was school problem, I guess, because after we finished the sixth grade there as—Well, they used to call us Negroes then. We couldn't go to school with the Whites. We had to go to Escambia County, to Pensacola to school. We didn't have a high school in Milton. We had to leave Milton for Escambia, or go somewhere else if we wanted to finish high school. That was about, well, you know we had the race the problem. It was just about, I guess, like every other small southern town. Whites had their areas and gave Blacks theirs, and Blacks was, of course, subservient to Whites, so to speak.	0:44
Sue Kelker Russell	But there were a lot of good Whites who were good to—that's what they call their special Negroes or special Blacks. I never suffered any hardships as a child, though, because I guess I didn't know. My mother was a teacher, and my father was a brick mason, and he kept up houses for a woman there who had several homes. She was White in Escambia County, and he'd leave every Monday morning, go there, and see Miss Bessie. He was always employed. He would come home, and she'd bring him home in the afternoons, and pick him up every morning. Then my mother, I said she taught school, and she always insisted on us going to school. So I really didn't have as much of a problem as a lot of kids there, but most of them had problems.	1:56
Paul Ortiz	What kind of problems did they have?	3:28
Sue Kelker Russell	I'd say poverty was the main thing, because if you didn't work for—The females mostly worked in the kitchens, and their children helped them around in areas like that. But other than that, I don't know of any special problems. We had White kids fighting Black kids when they'd meet in the streets, and that kind of thing. But other than that, I don't know of any real special problems they had.	3:30
Paul Ortiz	Now, had your family originally moved to Milton? Had your—	4:32
Sue Kelker Russell	Beg your pardon?	4:40
Paul Ortiz	Had your family moved to Milton? In other words, were your grandparents from Milton, or had they come recently to that part of Florida?	4:42
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, my family was reared there as far as I know.	4:53
Paul Ortiz	So Mrs. Russell, do you know your grandparents? Did you know your grandparents?	5:06
Sue Kelker Russell	I knew my grandmother on my father's side, and she lived to be 96 years old, but I never knew my mother's people.	5:11
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember stories about your grandmother, about her upbringing, or did people talk?	5:34
Sue Kelker Russell	Remember what?	5:41
Paul Ortiz	Stories about your grandmother's upbringing? Did she talk to you, or would other people talk to you about her?	5:42
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, my grandmother, my father's mother, was very, very fair. You wouldn't be able to tell her from Whites anyway. She was always treated like one, and she was never mistreated as such. That's why she got along with them so well, because she was never mistreated as one. I was trying to think of the name of the professor here who wrote the history of my father's people, the Kelkers, K-E-L-K-E-R-S. He was brought over here by the Spaniards. I think I got a—Well, in fact, I know have a newspaper here because they sent us all way. He wrote the history of my father's people, but I should have really looked up in that place. We got so much junk, but as I said, since my sight has been so poor and whatnot. I'll ask my brother about it, who lives next door to me. He has a copy also.	5:51
Paul Ortiz	Oh.	7:20
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, and I'll get that, see if I can find the history of my father's people, the Kelkers.	7:21
Paul Ortiz	Right off hand, do you know perhaps a few stories about your father's people?	7:35
Sue Kelker Russell	Hmm?	7:42
Paul Ortiz	Right off hand, do you know a few stories about your father's people? You said that they were brought over by the Spaniards?	7:42
Sue Kelker Russell	My father's people?	7:52
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	7:54
Sue Kelker Russell	What did you say about them?	7:55
Paul Ortiz	You said they were brought over by the Spaniards?	7:57
Sue Kelker Russell	Uh-huh.	8:00
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	8:01
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah. I have that paper. I'll look in there. I didn't have an idea as to what you would be asking or whatnot, but I'll look that paper up, and I'll give it to Eton, my family history of my father's people. I have that.	8:01
Speaker 1	I picked up the [indistinct 00:08:39].	8:28
Sue Kelker Russell	Huh? Okay. Did you see Jack Grady?	8:41
Speaker 1	Yes.	8:43
Sue Kelker Russell	Look here, did Audrey left that blanket on that chair in that living room? I don't know where she put it.	8:44
Speaker 1	Oh yes, I see it. I see it.	8:53
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell. What was childhood like in Milton?	9:01
Sue Kelker Russell	My childhood?	9:03
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	9:07
Sue Kelker Russell	I had a very good childhood, frankly, because there were seven of us. I came from family of seven, and as I said, my parents were always able to provide for us. We went to school in Milton, as I said, through the sixth grade. My mother sent us to Pensacola to live with relatives over there to finish high school, and all of us finished high school. Then, in fact, all of us have gone to college and whatnot. I had a very good childhood, comparatively speaking, to what a lot of them had there because Milton was kind of poor. It was a sawmill town, and it was kind of poor place, so to speak. But my childhood, as I tell them, I thought I was living all right. I didn't know any different.	9:09
Paul Ortiz	What kind of things would you do as a child? Would you have time to play?	10:28
Sue Kelker Russell	Huh?	10:35
Paul Ortiz	Would you have time to play? Would you have favorite games that you would [indistinct 00:10:42]—	10:38
Sue Kelker Russell	Oh yeah, we had time to play. Sure, we had time to play. We played all the time, in fact, after school and whatnot. Of course, my mother was a very disciplinarian. Yeah, we did all that, but on Saturdays we would have to get things together for Sunday school. We had to go to church on Sundays. That was just understood that we went to Sunday school, and these Saturdays we used to have to wash our ribbons and press them. She saw to that. She was a disciplinarian, my mother was, and my father let her rear the children. He provided for us, but he let her rear the children. Yeah, they were very good parents, very good parents.	10:41
Paul Ortiz	Who was responsible for discipline in the house?	11:37
Sue Kelker Russell	Mama. Mama. Anytime we'd get out—See, because there were six girls and just one boy, and he was the baby. Anytime you get out of line, he would say, "All right, I'm going to send you to your mama." And she disciplined too, because you see, she was a teacher, and she was accustomed to that. She did the discipline, but he definitely was there and provided for us. It was not a divided family at all.	11:43
Paul Ortiz	I see. Was that true in terms of financial decisions?	12:17
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, as far as I know. Now, I don't know how they divided their—I mean, how they prorated their finances, but I guess they got along on that.	12:24
Paul Ortiz	When you were a child, would your family travel a lot throughout Florida?	12:39
Sue Kelker Russell	Would they what?	12:46
Paul Ortiz	Would you travel, go on trips?	12:48
Sue Kelker Russell	No, we didn't travel because, as I say, I guess there were too many of us. We didn't do any traveling.	12:53
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, which church did you attend?	13:06
Sue Kelker Russell	Isaiah Chapel AME Zion Church. We were all christened in that church.	13:10
Paul Ortiz	Was that a large congregation in Milton?	13:23
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, it was the largest Methodist congregation for Blacks there, yes.	13:25
Paul Ortiz	What kinds of events or activities would the church sponsor?	13:42
Sue Kelker Russell	The church?	13:49
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	13:50
Sue Kelker Russell	We used to have Christmas programs, Easter programs, and we used to have what they call Christian Endeavor. That was a program sponsored on Sunday evenings. That's about all I remember as groups.	13:51
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, did your family live in a neighborhood with predominantly Black people?	14:24
Sue Kelker Russell	Predominantly Black people.	14:38
Paul Ortiz	Was that a close-knit neighborhood? Was it a—	14:44
Sue Kelker Russell	Yes, it was. Everybody looked out for everybody. All the neighbors looked out for each other. My mother, as I say, she was teacher, she'd whip a neighbor's child as quickly as she'd whip her own. The neighbors would do the same thing, spank me, and take me to mama. And if I told, mama would spank me for having done something. They were very close, very close. They didn't have any child abuse then. They had child rearing.	14:47
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember in particular any neighbors that your parents would perhaps go over and visit or—	15:28
Sue Kelker Russell	Perhaps what?	15:42
Paul Ortiz	Go over and visit, have a lot of communication with?	15:43
Sue Kelker Russell	I didn't quite get your question.	15:50
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember any neighbors in particular that kind of stand out over the years—	15:52
Sue Kelker Russell	Between my mother and that neighbor?	16:01
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	16:02
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, as I say, they were a very close-knit neighborhood. I don't remember any special neighbors because she had a sister who lived next door. If she had to go someplace or something, she'd always leave us with her. But all the neighbors seemed to have been just about equally related as far as I can recall. Now, some were, what I guess I would say, a little poorer than others. Yeah, because we had one neighbor or two neighbors who the mother was ill. I remember we used to call her Ms. Hun, and she had three children. I don't know where—I don't recall their father, period, but she was trying to rear them, and all everybody in the neighborhood was trying to help her with them. She was about the worst off that I know. But they looked out for her.	16:08
Paul Ortiz	Were there any controversies or disputes in the neighborhood?	17:44
Sue Kelker Russell	Speech?	17:49
Paul Ortiz	Disputes, or controversies, or arguments in that neighborhood?	17:51
Sue Kelker Russell	Only children. You know how children fight each other over games and toy, because see, we had to provide our own games and whatnot then. We couldn't go into stores like they do now. They have Christmas year round in the stores now. We used to shoot marbles, and play what we called teetotum, and play cooking, and canes. I recall my father, hey, we always had a little garden, and he would give each of us a little plot. We'd plant our little vegetable, go out there, cucumber get ripe, wipe it on the side of your dress, and eat it, and didn't have any cholesterol either, or tomato. Everybody would have to have their own little plot.	17:57
Sue Kelker Russell	Of course, at times, like kids do, if your tomato ripened before mine, I would take it. But if they caught you taking it, they'd spank you. Of course, we didn't have indoor toilets and whatnot. We had pump, and we had to keep the outside very clean because I remember we used to have to put lime out there every Saturday and whatnot. We didn't have a washing machine. We had to get out there with a tub, and a washing board, and a wash. But as I said, each Saturday we had to wash, and get our things ready for the next week, and hang them on the line. If the rain came, it was just too bad. But as I recall, it just wasn't the worst life in the world.	18:54
Paul Ortiz	Where had your mother went to school at?	19:57
Sue Kelker Russell	Where did my mother go to school?	20:00
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	20:02
Sue Kelker Russell	Here.	20:02
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Oh, she went to Florida A&M?	20:03
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, it was called Florida Normal then.	20:06
Paul Ortiz	Could you tell me something about your mother? What kind of person she was? What kind of values that she instilled in you?	20:22
Sue Kelker Russell	About my mother?	20:34
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	20:35
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, as I said, my mother was a teacher, and she was a very good disciplinarian. She was immaculately clean, immaculately clean, and that's what I said, every Saturday, we had to get everything ready for the next week. There wasn't putting off getting things ready. It was understood that when you got up Saturday morning, and then after that, if you had time to play, you played. Well, as sisters, as I said, there were six sisters and a brother, and made his sisters fight each other, pull each other's hair, and whatnot. She would whip us in a minute, though.	20:37
Sue Kelker Russell	She would whip us in a minute if we got out of line, but my mother was very good to us, very good to us. She wanted the best for us at all times. That's why I said, when we finished the sixth grade, and she wasn't satisfied with that because the White kids could go on through high school. She sent each of us, every one of us, had to go to Pensacola. She saw that we went. We stayed with relatives and friends over there who helped her out with us a whole lot.	21:28
Paul Ortiz	Now, Mrs. Russell, you said that your father was a bricklayer?	22:23
Sue Kelker Russell	A bricklayer.	22:28
Paul Ortiz	Now, had he went to school for that profession?	22:29
Sue Kelker Russell	No, my father didn't. He wasn't illiterate, though. He was not illiterate, but he was supposed to be the best in Santa Rosa County for building chimneys. Everybody would come to him. As I said, he used to keep up the property for Mr. Bill Davidson, who was a White man with a lot of property. My father worked for him, and Mr. Davidson was very good to him. Whenever any of the kids got sick or needed a doctor, Mr. Davidson would send the doctor to him. As I said, my father was very, very fair. He was just as fair as you are, and a lot of people often mistook him for a White. He was few, but he didn't have the formal training that my mother had, but he was very good at his profession. Very good.	22:34
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, would your parents try to protect you or shield you from racial discrimination when you were growing up?	23:50
Sue Kelker Russell	Shield me from what?	24:03
Paul Ortiz	Shield you from racial discrimination?	24:06
Sue Kelker Russell	No. Well, I guess they had no choice, so to speak. As I said, there were certain places we couldn't go, and it was understood. She would always tell us, I recall very vividly, "Don't do anything you know you aren't supposed to do." That was her favorite byword, don't do anything you aren't supposed to do. I guess by her being a teacher, and being there in Santa Rosa County, and having taught practically her life, we could go to the stores downtown, and get a dress or a hat, Mr. Krentzman, Cohen, and those places she had credit. But as I said, often—Now, don't misunderstand. We often had fights with those Whites a lot. We would pass on the walk. They would try to push us off the walk and whatnot.	24:15
Paul Ortiz	Oh, really?	25:29
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, and they would start a fight, and sometimes they would come out on the right, but we used to have fights with them quite frequently.	25:29
Paul Ortiz	When did you first become aware that there was a system of segregation in Milton?	25:49
Sue Kelker Russell	When did I become aware that there was segregation?	25:58
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	26:00
Sue Kelker Russell	I guess from the time I was big enough to know right from wrong. When we were going to school, when I started school, I guess, because the Whites would go up there, and we would go down there. I guess that, but it was just one of the things at that time that I guess you accepted, and you knew that that's what would happen. Now, segregation really hit me more when I came to college.	26:04
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay.	26:42
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, than it did any other time.	26:43
Paul Ortiz	How did it hit you when you came to college? How did segregation hit you when you came to college?	26:48
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, I didn't expect, I guess, as much of it as I found because I thought that it—but I remember very vividly, Doak Campbell was president of—We used to call it the Florida State College for Women. We used to have Vesper every Sunday evening, and he would bring 8 or 10 of his girls out here. We would be sitting in the middle aisle, and the seniors would be in front. When they would come in, we were supposed to get up and move to the right. We did that for over a year. So one Sunday afternoon, Eunice Conley, she was Eunice Golden then. Eunice Golden Conley decided she was not going to move, and she sat there, and we wore midi blouses and skirts. We had what they call the executive committee. President Lee, the dean of women, the dean of men, the bandmaster, and the choir director formed the executive committee. We sat down there, and we faced them. They sat on the stage, and she sat there, and Mrs. McGuinn kept doing her hand like that. The rest of us just moved on back. It was understood they would take those seats.	26:55
Paul Ortiz	The White people?	28:45
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, the White girls that he brought. Mrs. McGuinn just kept doing that to Eunice, and Eunice sat right there, and she did not move. So after so many times she did that, and she didn't move. Then Doak Campbell pointed to his girls to stay where they were. The next morning, Monday morning, they had executive committee meeting, and they had Eunice in there. They gave her 14 demerits. 15 demerits would send you home, and all of those who were—Those of us who were sitting behind Eunice went to this executive committee meeting to see what they were going to do to Eunice.	28:46
Sue Kelker Russell	When we went, I think they were hesitant to do anything to her. I think they had planned to give her the 15 demerits. Now, that's my thinking, and that's what we thought. But after all of us who were sitting on that same seat went with her, they just gave her 14 and told her she got another one, she would go home. So she stayed.	29:40
Sue Kelker Russell	She said, "Well, you may as well give me the—" I remember very well. She said, "You may as well give me the other one now, because I'm going to sit right there next Sunday, and I'm not going to move." We said, "If she sits there, we've going to sit with her." They were Celestine Frazier—There were nine of us, and we—No, 11 of us. That Sunday we made it our business to go early, and we all sat there. They didn't come. The girls didn't come that Sunday, but the following Sunday, he brought them.	30:05
Sue Kelker Russell	They sat over there, and didn't ask to move, and didn't ask us to move. So that stopped that. That was my first encounter with real segregation, but it made you real angry, real angry. We got real angry with our Dean of Women, Mrs. McGuinn, because she was White, so to speak. Her color was White. She was supposed to be Black, but her color was White. After that we weren't bothered with them anymore. After that semester, he didn't bring them out anymore. We weren't bothered with them anymore, but we stopped that right there.	30:45
Paul Ortiz	I see.	31:28
Sue Kelker Russell	That was my first encounter with real segregation.	31:30
Paul Ortiz	Do you know what had led up to her individual stand of she refused to move to make way for the White girls? Had she talked about doing this beforehand?	31:36
Sue Kelker Russell	No, she hadn't said a word about it. No. In fact, we hadn't discussed it. We just had been one of the things we had just been accepting. Nobody had thought. When we saw them come in all beforehand, we just automatically got up and moved. Nobody thought anything about it, but I guess she had been thinking about it. She was very fair herself. She was very fair. She didn't have very good hair, but she was very fair, and she was adamant about it. So evidently she had been thinking about it, but she had never said anything to us about it. We were surprised, too, when she didn't move because the rest of us had moved. But after she took that stand, then we decided to support her.	31:50
Paul Ortiz	Did you make that decision as a group?	32:51
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah. Yeah, Celestine Frazier, one of her classmates, called us together in her room after that and told us what to do. She told us then, "We aren't going to let Eunice be alone in this now," because segregation, they was running—I mean, I don't say race riots, but race disturbances were running high at that point, had just begun to run high.	32:54
Paul Ortiz	You were at Florida A&M? This was during—	33:33
Sue Kelker Russell	That was Florida A&M College, not Florida A&M University.	33:36
Paul Ortiz	Okay. That was during the 1920s?	33:40
Sue Kelker Russell	In the '20s?	33:41
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	33:46
Sue Kelker Russell	'30s.	33:49
Paul Ortiz	'30s. What year did you begin going there to Florida A&M?	33:50
Sue Kelker Russell	Huh?	33:56
Paul Ortiz	What year did you graduate from Florida A&M?	33:58
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, I first graduated from Florida A&M in 1928. Oh, you mean when was that affair With Eunice?	34:01
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	34:12
Sue Kelker Russell	Oh, that was in the '20s. At that time, I finished what they called business administration because they didn't have a four year. Then I came back in '43 and got a degree. I mean, I graduated in 1930. I said '28. I came here in '28, and I graduated with a two-year course in 1930. They only had two years in that, and then I came back in '43 and got a degree.	34:13
Paul Ortiz	So the event that you talked about, refusing to move for the White girls, happened between 1928 and 1930?	34:59
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah.	35:08
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Now when the White girls would move in to try to move into the seats, were they trying to move into them because they were front row seats?	35:09
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, I guess so. We were supposed to be behind them. Yeah.	35:24
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. You made the decision as a group in subsequent weeks to refuse to move if they came again?	35:29
Sue Kelker Russell	Did what? Say it now. Say that again.	35:48
Paul Ortiz	Now, you were saying that you made the decision as a group to refuse to move if the White girls tried to sit in front of you again?	35:51
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, after they called Eunice in, yes. After Eunice said she was going to sit right there, same place, next time, then we decide to support her.	36:01
Paul Ortiz	I see. Did you receive any pressure from the administration about that?	36:14
Sue Kelker Russell	No. After that, I think at that time, they didn't want to make waves. I think they tried to keep it as quietly as possible, because as I said, after that the girls didn't come back. But once, they came back once, and they sat on that side where they had been sitting all the time. After that, they didn't come back. Now, this is just my opinion, and that's what we thought because we were waiting—I think they felt that we were waiting for them to come back, and we were.	36:27
Paul Ortiz	Oh, really?	37:10
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, we were because we were going to do the same thing, but they did not come back. I think it kind of got quieted, and it was no more problem.	37:10
Paul Ortiz	This event was a Vespers?	37:29
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, Sunday evening Vesper.	37:32
Paul Ortiz	Now earlier, Mrs. Russell, you told me that this was a time when there were increasing race disturbances. Now, what kind of disturbances? Were they disturbances in Tallahassee?	37:37
Sue Kelker Russell	I said they were creating race disturbances?	37:55
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am. You said that this was also a time when there were some other race issues—	37:59
Sue Kelker Russell	Other than with Doak Campbell, he would not let—Now, my brother-in-law, Gilbert Porter, was working on his doctorate, and he would not let him use the library over there. He had to get the janitor to bring the books out, and let him use them over here. And little Alfonso—oh, shoot, little short guy. I can't think of his name. Alfonso. But anyway, the janitor, he would bring the books out that Porter wanted. He would write down, and bring the books out, and use them, and take them back, but Porter, he couldn't use the library. McFadden, Alfonso McFadden.	38:14
Paul Ortiz	Would Black students at Florida A&M protest segregation in other ways?	39:12
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, now when the Black students started really protesting, see, I was out working. I wasn't a student at that time. I had graduated and was working. They had Black students from—Daisy Young, and all of them were there, but I wasn't a student then. I was working.	39:20
Paul Ortiz	I see.	39:43
Sue Kelker Russell	See, as I said, I graduated in 1930 the first time. See, and at that time, it wasn't prevalent. It was just a few uprisings occasionally, and I think Eunice—Our situation was the only one I remember at that time that came as such. It was just one of those things that was understood that, I guess, that if this continues, it will start something. So they just let it rest. But see then—	39:48
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember other incidents that happened later?	40:35
Sue Kelker Russell	I don't remember any incidents that happened after that until, I guess, in the '60s when the kids really started rioting. Was it in the '60s when they had all those race rioting and all this?	40:43
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	41:00
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, that's when they started.	41:01
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Now, during these years, had you registered to vote?	41:06
Sue Kelker Russell	I've been voting ever since they let me register, and I don't miss a vote.	41:13
Paul Ortiz	So you first started voting when you came of age?	41:19
Sue Kelker Russell	I don't remember when I registered to vote. I really don't, but I know one thing. I'm registered, and I tell them I'm going to vote if it's for a dog fight. I don't care what it is, I'm going to vote. I may vote wrong, but I'm going to vote my conviction. I vote. I go to the poll every time they have it.	41:22
Paul Ortiz	Did you first register in Milton, or—Did you first register in Milton?	41:43
Sue Kelker Russell	First register what?	41:50
Paul Ortiz	In Milton, Florida or—	41:51
Sue Kelker Russell	Oh, no. No. No. In fact, in Milton, I didn't go back to Milton to live after 1930. See, because I started to work here soon as I finished school. I finished school one week and started to work here the next week.	41:53
Paul Ortiz	Did your parents vote or register to vote in Milton?	42:17
Sue Kelker Russell	I don't know. I really don't.	42:20
Paul Ortiz	Now, when you registered to vote in Tallahassee, did you have any difficulties in voting?	42:30
Sue Kelker Russell	I didn't. I think there was some difficulty, but I didn't have any.	42:37
Paul Ortiz	Now, Mrs. Russell, when you first went to Florida A&M, were you thinking about a career? Were you thinking in terms of wanting to do something in particular career-wise?	42:50
Sue Kelker Russell	Yes, when I came for A&M I wanted to finish in home economics. That was my ambition because I had a high school teacher that I admired so much, Ms. Exie Gould. She was very, very good to me, very good, when I was in high school. I wanted to finish, I wanted to be a home economics teacher just like she was. That was the height of my ambition, but that science, I couldn't take it. That science wore me out. So I was working with Dean Lanier as a student assistant. He was the registrar at that time, and he thought I was very good in that, so he told them he was sending me up to the office with Ms. Bradford to try for something else. When I got up there, then he called me in one day, and told me I was in the wrong field, and to try that. That's when I started with business, and I got an A, and I liked it, and I stayed.	43:10
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, what was the campus like during those years in terms of social life, maybe the curriculum?	44:39
Sue Kelker Russell	The campus life?	44:52
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	44:53
Sue Kelker Russell	During what period?	44:55
Paul Ortiz	When you first began there in 1928, '29.	44:57
Sue Kelker Russell	Oh, we had a very enjoyable social because they weren't but so many of us. In fact, Jackson Davis Hall was built and opened the year that, and we didn't have enough college students, girls, to fill Jackson Davis Hall. We had to put two high schools—They had a room there, Susan McMeekin and Katie Johnson, two high school students, to use one of the rooms. See, we didn't have enough college girls in to fill one dormitory. That's when Jackson Davis Hall was, and on Sunday afternoons, they would let the boys visit the girls in the dormitory. They could sit out on the lawn. When that bell rang at 6:30, then they had to get up and go, and you had to go to your dormitory.	45:01
Sue Kelker Russell	They just had that kind of understanding. Naturally, as students would be, two or three of them occasionally got in trouble because they slip off and be gone. When the bell rang, the couldn't—but when she got ready to check you in, if you weren't there, then you were in trouble. Once or twice we had—Now, I'm not saying they were perfect. Once or twice, they had girls who weren't there, and boys, and they sent them home in a minute. Mrs. Patty would take them down there to give them their tickets, send them—	46:00

Paul Ortiz	So it's safe to say that the rules were very strict?	0:03
Sue Kelker Russell	Yes, they were. They were very strict. But as I say, you are going to have some, this is going—They weren't perfect, but the rules, I guess they had, but the kids weren't perfect.	0:07
Paul Ortiz	Would you or your friends sometimes challenge the rules, push a little bit?	0:27
Sue Kelker Russell	Not to my knowledge, not during my time here, uh-uh, I don't recall. If they did, they didn't try to push it as a group. They might've tried this and then—	0:35
Paul Ortiz	Who was the president during the 1928—	0:57
Sue Kelker Russell	J.R.E Lee.	1:00
Paul Ortiz	Really?	1:02
Sue Kelker Russell	J.R.E. Lee, Senior.	1:04
Paul Ortiz	What kind of a person was he?	1:10
Sue Kelker Russell	President Lee?	1:15
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	1:16
Sue Kelker Russell	I guess he was a fine man as far as I know. See, because as a student, didn't come in contact with him too much. So as far as I know, he was a very good president. I know one thing, he could get a whole lot from the Whites. Like Senator Hodges, he knew how to maneuver to get what he wanted. But he did a whole lot for Florida A&M College at that time. But as far as I know, he was a good president. I guess he had to be to stay here as long as he did.	1:22
Paul Ortiz	During those years, did you go out much into the larger Tallahassee community, like Frenchtown?	2:23
Sue Kelker Russell	No, I knew that was just off limits to most of us out here.	2:33
Paul Ortiz	Who would put it, "Off limits"?	2:42
Sue Kelker Russell	You mean in Frenchtown proper?	2:49
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	2:51
Sue Kelker Russell	I guess it was just a different class of people. They had the taverns and nightclubs and what they used to call—Well, I guess they're nightclubs, I don't know what to call it. But we just didn't go over there, that was just understood. Section of time certain of us just didn't visit. I don't know whether they—Well, it just wasn't thought of as going over there, that's all.	2:53
Paul Ortiz	As a student, were you ever curious about that area?	3:41
Sue Kelker Russell	I don't remember that we were.	3:45
Paul Ortiz	Now, what area of town would it have been okay for you to go to?	3:53
Sue Kelker Russell	Oh, we could go downtown. Downtown proper.	4:03
Paul Ortiz	Oh—	4:06
Sue Kelker Russell	—To all the stores down there, yeah. But as girls, when I was here, we had to go in twos. You couldn't go alone, you always had to be in twos. At least two of you had to go together. But oh, we could go anywhere downtown. But when we went downtown, like say Woolworth and a little Five and Ten cent store. When I was there we could go in any of the stores downtown. They didn't have any stores that we couldn't go in.	4:06
Paul Ortiz	Could you try on hats and clothing inside of the store?	4:56
Sue Kelker Russell	As a student, I don't know, because we weren't buying there. Now, when I started working as a young woman down there, no, you couldn't try on things in the store. But I had some good friends in the stores, they would call and tell me, "I have a dress or such and such a thing." Or, "I have—" I had accounts most of the stores there. But I would have to bring it out and try it on, I couldn't try it on down there, downtown. The only thing you could try on downtown in the store was shoes. Miller's Bootery, we used to call it. Miller's Bootery was the name of the shoe store.We could try on—But clothes and hats and things, no, you couldn't try them on then. It got better, however, they would be glad to get your money.	5:01
Sue Kelker Russell	When Governor Collins broke up that—You see, Woolworth had a counter where the Whites could go sit at the counter. It was on a Sunday afternoon—See, we couldn't sit at the counter. He made a speech, said, "How could they afford to accept our money the same as the others, and let them eat on one side and refuse to serve us on the other?" It broke that, Governor LeRoy Collins. I think that started this bus situation and it started a real showing of bus situation.	6:13
Paul Ortiz	So before that happened, do you remember times where you would think as an individual, that system for instance, of not being able to try on clothing or drinking at separate water fountains, was a wrong system?	7:07
Sue Kelker Russell	Think of it as being wrong?	7:32
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	7:33
Sue Kelker Russell	Yes, I did. I thought of it always as being—Sure I did, yeah.	7:33
Paul Ortiz	Were there times that you were able to maybe challenge that as an individual?	7:42
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, I remember one day we were on a bus, Eunice Johnson and I were coming from town. We were both young women working then. They wanted us to get up and give two Whites our seat. We were coming out on the campus, we were living in dormitory. We wouldn't, so the bus driver turned around and carried us on down to jailhouse. Marian Johnson, who then had a barbershop in Frenchtown, he was the mayor of Frenchtown. He was a very good friend of ours. He looked like a White guy himself. We called him, he came down there and raised sand with them. My brother-in-law, Porter, he and Porter came down there and got us. But that was the only real encounter. Shortly after that, then we heard of this bus boycotting. But Eunice Johnson Burgess, she lives here now.	7:53
Paul Ortiz	Oh, really?	9:05
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, she and I. There was three workers from the campus on the bus. I think that's what frightened the bus driver, Solomon McCree and Dempsey Wilson were on the bus. When he saw that bus driver get up, when they saw him, they got started toward the front and he got afraid, I think and sat down. Instead, turned around and went on down to the jail, carried us down there.	9:05
Paul Ortiz	Oh, so he you drove the bus to the jail?	9:32
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah.	9:33
Paul Ortiz	Oh. Was this during the 1950s?	9:34
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah.	9:39
Paul Ortiz	Do you know if Mrs—Now you say you, "Eunice Johnson Burgess"?	9:44
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-hmm.	9:48
Paul Ortiz	If she would talk with us about maybe doing an interview?	9:50
Sue Kelker Russell	Would she?	9:55
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	9:56
Sue Kelker Russell	I guess she would. She lives here, she lives out Woodgate, I think his name of the place. Yeah, Woodgate, Eunice. She remembers the incident. You can ask her about the incident where she and I were together on the bus and the bus driver carried us to the jail and Mr. Johnson came out. She's here.	9:58
Paul Ortiz	Now had you planned to do that beforehand?	10:21
Sue Kelker Russell	No! Because we didn't know it was going to happen. Didn't know anything like that. Didn't know he was going to ask us to move because they got on. Because we were almost where we were getting off. We said, "We getting off right here." He said, "But you have to move now, because they don't have a seat." So we said, "We aren't going to move." We sat there.	10:23
Paul Ortiz	Did they have a sign on the bus that said—	10:46
Sue Kelker Russell	I don't recall, frankly, I really don't.	10:50
Paul Ortiz	But you were just near the front of the bus?	10:55
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, we went in the front of the bus. Because the bus was full with people coming home from work.	10:57
Paul Ortiz	Would there be other times when you would do things maybe in terms of say, water fountains, where you refused to follow that system of segregation?	11:03
Sue Kelker Russell	I don't know, because I knew that there were certain things you weren't supposed to—I don't say you weren't supposed to do, but you weren't expected to do. I never subjected myself much to those—I'd always avoid confrontations if I could. That was the closest confrontation I ever had. But shortly after that, then they started this bus boycott business and I didn't—	11:32
Paul Ortiz	Were there other Black people who were thinking along those same lines of refusing to move to the back of the bus in the '50s before the bus boycott?	12:15
Sue Kelker Russell	I don't know.	12:33
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, did you meet your husband at Florida A&M?	12:49
Sue Kelker Russell	Did I meet him at Florida A&M?	12:54
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	12:56
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, indirectly. He was stationed at Camp Gordon Johnson, that's where—Well, I didn't meet him—I met him in Little Rock, Arkansas, when I went up there with a friend. That's where I met him.	12:58
Paul Ortiz	Now you were living in Little Rock at the time, or you just were traveling?	13:32
Sue Kelker Russell	No, I went up there with a friend, that was her home. She worked here and I went up there that summer with her visiting and met him up there.	13:35
Paul Ortiz	I see. Was he in the service?	13:45
Sue Kelker Russell	Not at that time.	13:50
Paul Ortiz	What was his primary occupation?	13:59
Sue Kelker Russell	He's deceased.	14:02
Paul Ortiz	But when he was alive, was he a—	14:05
Sue Kelker Russell	Insurance—He was a principal of a school in North Little Rock, Arkansas.	14:07
Paul Ortiz	He also was an insurance agent?	14:18
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, after he stopped teaching and went in insurance.	14:20
Paul Ortiz	Was that for the Afro-American?	14:25
Sue Kelker Russell	No, he was in St. Louis then at that time.	14:27
Paul Ortiz	Oh, I see. Mrs. Russell, what year did you get married and move here to Tallahassee?	14:56
Sue Kelker Russell	Did I what?	15:05
Paul Ortiz	What year did you get married and move into your house in Tallahassee?	15:08
Sue Kelker Russell	Oh, I got married in '43, right after I graduated.	15:15
Paul Ortiz	At that point, were you living out here in this area?	15:30
Sue Kelker Russell	No, uh-huh. I lived in Little Rock for 4, 3, 4, 5 years through '43, '40. Yeah. I know when I left there, I lived on Young Street up there. I built this house out here in 1957.	15:36
Paul Ortiz	So you moved out here in 1957?	16:01
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-hmm.	16:01
Paul Ortiz	Were there a lot of other families living out in this area in 1957?	16:12
Sue Kelker Russell	I was the first one to live out here.	16:15
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. Were you able to receive a loan for building the house?	16:29
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-hmm.	16:40
Paul Ortiz	Was that from the credit union at Florida A&M?	16:40
Sue Kelker Russell	No, that was from Tallahassee Federal.	16:42
Paul Ortiz	Now, was Tallahassee Federal a place that Black people banked at?	16:49
Sue Kelker Russell	Was it a what?	16:59
Paul Ortiz	A place that dealt fairly with Black people in terms of banking practices?	17:01
Sue Kelker Russell	I guess, I don't know whether they had banking—I guess so. But anyway, I was working with Mr. Lee, Jr. who was the business manager. I had good credit all over Tallahassee. Mr. DeMilly told me, "If I got Mr. Lee Jr. to vouch for me, he would—" I didn't have any problem. So I don't know what—It evidently wasn't, because up there on Young Street back of where I was living, they had a settlement back there and Blacks were developing that and building. So I've never heard of Blacks having too much problem, in fact. As I say, they might have, maybe I just didn't hear about it.	17:12
Paul Ortiz	So you really raised your family in this area?	18:29
Sue Kelker Russell	I never had any children.	18:35
Paul Ortiz	You didn't have children?	18:35
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-mm, I helped my sister with her children.	18:36
Paul Ortiz	I see. What church were you attending here?	18:40
Sue Kelker Russell	Hm?	18:57
Paul Ortiz	What church were you attending here?	18:57
Sue Kelker Russell	Did I attend here?	18:59
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	19:00
Sue Kelker Russell	Flipper Chapel AME Church.	19:01
Paul Ortiz	You started going there in the 1950s?	19:09
Sue Kelker Russell	No, I went to Bethel AME which was over town at first and I came out here. In fact, they dedicated a Fellowship Day program—	19:13
Paul Ortiz	Really?	19:29
Sue Kelker Russell	—to me over there. Somewhere here some, let's see, where did I put the—There it is, Flipper Chapel AME Church, that's it. On the 12th of May. There's the plaque they gave me. I didn't think about it.	19:30
Paul Ortiz	Oh, I see, they named Fellowship after you.	20:00
Sue Kelker Russell	I was a financial secretary over there for 27 years.	20:07
Paul Ortiz	Oh, this is really neat. Do you have extra copies of this?	20:13
Sue Kelker Russell	You may have that one.	20:25
Paul Ortiz	Oh, thank you very much.	20:26
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-hmm.	20:26
Paul Ortiz	All right. Mrs. Russell, during those years, the '50s and '60s, what were the major changes happening in the Black community in Tallahassee?	20:49
Sue Kelker Russell	That was a time when they really had—I think that was when Martin Luther King started the bus boycott and everybody got—It was really restless time, very restless. People were afraid to go different places. Whites were almost as afraid as Blacks were, because you never knew what was going to happen. They had marches, it was especially in the '60s, and used to have speakers and all. It was a restless time, very restless. But it began to taper off and get straight. But it was a restless time, very restless.	21:03
Paul Ortiz	Would you go to some of the rallies at the churches or attend any—	22:09
Sue Kelker Russell	I would go, yeah. Yeah, I remember I went to hear King over the Bethel AME. Abernathy came here and spoke. Yeah, I would always go to hear the speeches. But I never marched or anything like that. In fact, I was working and I just felt that I couldn't. But I never marched. When they'd have rallies and asked for money to help—They put a lot of kids in jail, I would support things like that. Give them money to help get a bond or get the kids out. But marching and all, I never marched. But I would always give them financial support where I could. Or keep a child. If a child get in jail or mother or something would have to come up here and see about them and didn't have any place to stay, I would always let one of them, some stay with me or something. But that was the kind of aid that I gave.	22:13
Paul Ortiz	Now, Mrs. Russell, earlier you said that, "You began to vote really as soon as you could. As soon as you were legally old enough."	23:34
Sue Kelker Russell	To vote?	23:44
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	23:45
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-hmm.	23:46
Paul Ortiz	What led you to voting? Were there issues that you were particularly concerned about?	23:47
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, at the time, I guess I did. I'd look at the issues that we were confronted with. I would try to see who was talking about. At the church, they would call different speakers in. That's where they would always have to have their speeches at churches. Tell you what they were thinking on issues. I guess I made my decisions from what they—But we were always encouraged to vote from the campus, and I always wanted to vote, I don't know why.	23:59
Paul Ortiz	So the administration at the college would encourage students—	24:53
Sue Kelker Russell	Yes, they encouraged it. Yes, they did.	24:58
Paul Ortiz	Did you register on campus?	25:06
Sue Kelker Russell	I don't remember, frankly. I'm going to tell you the truth, I don't know where we first registered. I'm glad you asked that question because I really don't know, I don't remember.	25:10
Paul Ortiz	It's interesting, because it seems like Black people here in Tallahassee were registering to vote earlier than in some other areas. Do you know what would account for that, was it easier to register for Black people?	25:26
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, maybe it's because of the university, the college they say was here. They were teaching government and giving you your reasons as to why you should vote. Now I'm saying, I guess that's one of the reasons that they—Then maybe they had more collective learned people, group, than they did. You go to other places, they have five or six learned scattered here, scattered there. For instance, well, I just say like Jacksonville, maybe it's 15 or 20. Over this part of East Tallahassee, east Jacksonville, south Jacksonville. But here they were collected all together, see. I'm saying that possibly could have been a reason, I don't know. But frankly, I don't remember when I started to vote, really don't.	25:46
Paul Ortiz	What kind of role did ministers play in the Tallahassee Black community during those years?	27:08
Sue Kelker Russell	The ministers?	27:18
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	27:19
Sue Kelker Russell	As a whole, I don't know, I really don't. I know all the churches were always open for meetings, because that's about the only place they could have meetings, would be in the churches. I know Bethel AME was one of the main meeting places. But the ministers as a group, I don't know, frankly, I don't. I don't remember that they were organized as such, but as a ministerial alliance or something like that, I don't really know. I don't recall that there—I know Reverend Steele was one of the leading forces behind Bethel Baptist. Father Brooks of the Episcopal Church and Reverend Steele, were two of the leading ministers who were in the forefront. I remember them very vividly because they were two of the main ones.	27:22
Paul Ortiz	In your opinion, Mrs. Russell, what set Reverend Steele apart from other ministers?	28:54
Sue Kelker Russell	Say what about it?	29:04
Paul Ortiz	What distinguished Reverend Steele from other ministers in Tallahassee, was it his congregation?	29:06
Sue Kelker Russell	Maybe, I don't know, but I know he was a sighter for—He connected himself very closely, as closely as he could, to King. He wanted to break down the laws of segregation. I would just be afraid to pin a badge on him, because I don't really know what caused it.	29:25
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, over the years, what have been some things that have inspired you to overcome obstacles that you might've faced during those years of segregation? What were the things that really inspired you to prevail or transcend that system?	30:09
Sue Kelker Russell	Caused me to what?	30:35
Paul Ortiz	To transcend that system to—	30:37
Sue Kelker Russell	What do you mean, like what?	30:47
Paul Ortiz	Maybe religious beliefs, role models that you might've had, people that inspired you.	30:53
Sue Kelker Russell	Well, I don't know of any particular thing. Maybe experience has had a lot to do with it. A lot of things you perhaps would've overlooked as a young person you think about it now. I guess experience teaches you more than anything else and you try to profit a lot by mistakes that you see were made. But you can be—	31:04
Jackie	Excuse me, I'm back.	32:07
Sue Kelker Russell	Huh?	32:07
Jackie	I'm gone.	32:07
Sue Kelker Russell	Okay, where'd you put it?	32:07
Jackie	On the counter.	32:07
Sue Kelker Russell	Okay.	32:07
Jackie	It's two Things.	32:07
Sue Kelker Russell	All right.	32:07
Jackie	Okay?	32:07
Sue Kelker Russell	Okay, thank you Jackie.	32:26
Jackie	Okay.	32:31
Sue Kelker Russell	You know, this violence thing is a thing I worry a lot about that. I just wonder what caused all this violence. If I could just, like they say, "Role models." That worries me more than anything else right now. I don't know what I—During our time, this sort of thing just didn't exist. Have you ever heard of so much violence?	32:35
Paul Ortiz	Um.	33:20
Sue Kelker Russell	Where are you from?	33:22
Paul Ortiz	Originally, Washington State.	33:23
Sue Kelker Russell	Uh-huh. I don't know, I just wish I knew the answer. I was just reading this morning in the paper where, "They robbed a woman of a wheelchair. Took her wheelchair and her crutches away from her." That's getting to be the last straw. Oh.	33:25
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, there is some biographical information that I wanted to ask you.	34:04
Sue Kelker Russell	Some what?	34:08
Paul Ortiz	Some biographical information that I need to fill out. If you wouldn't mind me keeping you a few more minutes?	34:12
Sue Kelker Russell	Uh-huh.	34:21
Paul Ortiz	Now you spell your last name, R-U-S-S-E-L-L?	34:30
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-hmm.	34:34
Paul Ortiz	Your first name is Susan.	34:37
Sue Kelker Russell	Sue.	34:40
Paul Ortiz	Okay, Sue.	34:44
Sue Kelker Russell	Middle initial K for Kelker.	34:50
Paul Ortiz	Is that your maiden name?	34:50
Sue Kelker Russell	Huh?	34:51
Paul Ortiz	Is that your maiden name?	34:51
Sue Kelker Russell	Kelker, K-E-L-K-E-R. You said my maiden name?	34:52
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	34:58
Sue Kelker Russell	Yeah, K-E-L-K-E-R.	34:59
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, your date of birth?	35:05
Sue Kelker Russell	August 25, 1909.	35:08
Paul Ortiz	You were born in Milton?	35:16
Sue Kelker Russell	Right.	35:19
Paul Ortiz	Your husband's name was?	35:28
Sue Kelker Russell	My high school?	35:31
Paul Ortiz	No. Your husband's name was?	35:32
Sue Kelker Russell	Arthur Russell.	35:34
Paul Ortiz	His date of birth?	35:45
Sue Kelker Russell	I don't really remember Arthur's date of birth to tell you the truth.	35:47
Paul Ortiz	Was he born in Florida also?	35:55
Sue Kelker Russell	Arkansas.	35:57
Paul Ortiz	Oh, Arkansas. In Little Rock?	35:58
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-hmm.	36:26
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Russell, what was your mother's name?	36:26
Sue Kelker Russell	My mother?	36:28
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	36:29
Sue Kelker Russell	Pearl A. Kelker. Almina—	36:30
Paul Ortiz	Was Almina her maiden name?	36:45
Sue Kelker Russell	Her maiden name?	36:48
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	36:49
Sue Kelker Russell	No, Johnson was her maiden name.	36:50
Paul Ortiz	She was born in Milton?	36:52
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-hmm.	36:58
Paul Ortiz	Oh, I'm sorry, you told me, "She was a teacher"?	37:13
Sue Kelker Russell	Mm-hmm.	37:15
Paul Ortiz	Do you know about her approximate date of birth and then the year that she passed?	37:16
Sue Kelker Russell	My mother?	37:23
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	37:27
Sue Kelker Russell	Date of her birth?	37:27
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	37:33
Sue Kelker Russell	1891.	37:34
Paul Ortiz	She passed in 19—?	37:34
Sue Kelker Russell	Mama passed in 19—I'll ask my sister, I'm not sure. 19—? I'll ask her.	37:38
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Oh, I'll take this off so you don't trip over that.	37:56
Sue Kelker Russell	Okay. I have a program in there [indistinct 00:38:19]	38:10

Item Info

Title:

Sue Russell interview recording, 1994 August 05

Date:

August 5, 1994

Creator:

Russell, Sue Kelker

Contributor:

Ortiz, Paul

Description:

Name: Sue Kelker Russell; Date of birth: 1909-08-25; Place of birth: Milton, FL; Occupation(s): clerical; managerial; Residence: Tallahassee, FL
Informant ID: 389; Interviewed by: Paul Ortiz.

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English

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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Interview number: 1112
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Sue Russell interview recording, 1994 August 05

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1. Sue Russell Kelker slides :Booker T. Washington portrait postcard, postmarked, reads "Booker T. Washington, Founder, Tuskegee Institute", 1940 February 23

2. Sue Russell Kelker slides: A man kneeling outside (duplicate of 04-0389-031-IN), 1940s

3. Sue Russell Kelker slides: A man kneeling outside, 1940s

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Sue Russell interview recording, 1994 August 05

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