Lorene Poole interview recording, 1995 June 13

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Lorene Carter Poole	See, I didn't even get to start school because we left. We went there in that time after school until we came here, and then I was out of school for about a month. I met my sister-in-law, and then I came back to South Carolina. So I didn't go to school then.	0:02
Blair Murphy	Oh, you didn't go to school there?	0:20
Lorene Carter Poole	And we had [indistinct 00:00:25] up there, they did. And I would go back sometimes in the summer and visit, but I didn't go to school there.	0:25
Blair Murphy	Oh, okay.	0:32
Lorene Carter Poole	I only went to public schools at the age of five through about eight. I mean, when [indistinct 00:00:44] school in Graniteville. It's still open [indistinct 00:00:50].	0:34
Blair Murphy	You've mentioned—	0:50
Lorene Carter Poole	The daughter carried it on, and it's her family. And she's still—The daughter is in her 70s now. And it's amazing how—I don't know. I'm thinking about that community, you know, the children—You'll have to ask. Because she was interviewed on WNYC every year, and she was saying that you could start with a child, too. There's so much they can learn. And she believed that our children could learn.	0:51
Lorene Carter Poole	That's how I got my start. I was about five years old when I started going to school. But what happened, at that time, they didn't—A lot of Black private schools for young children and all, they didn't recognize them. The State didn't recognize them. So what happened, I ended up getting two years behind, and that's when I was in at public school. See, I ended up being two years behind the children, like I said. For instance, I was supposed to finish college at 22. I was almost 24.	1:19
Blair Murphy	Mm-hmm.	1:52
Lorene Carter Poole	You know, just two years behind each as you go along, but that was it.	1:53
Blair Murphy	They didn't give you credit?	1:55
Lorene Carter Poole	—19 when I finished high school. Not like that, because the State did not, I guess they didn't want you to learn anything. So, people who had private schools at that time were not authorized by the State, and so they didn't test me. I even hit the first grade teacher, teacher [indistinct 00:02:17]. I did.	1:55
Lorene Carter Poole	They put me in second grade when I entered when I should have been in third grade. See, I should have been in third and I should have been in [indistinct 00:02:27], so I was like, two years. And I was so more advanced than the children in the first and second year classes. I'd had everything they'd had, plus nearly what third graders have had. So what I remember is [indistinct 00:02:38] first teaching private school, I wasn't skipping in second grade, was nine years old. And I remember I used to teach her first grade class reading, and I was in second grade. Of course I was really a fourth grader. I'll never forget that. I had a change even though I was down in South Carolina.	2:18
Lorene Carter Poole	A friend of mine who's not even from my hometown, she's from somewhere else, Ms. Strickland. Her son is now [indistinct 00:03:12], something like that. [indistinct 00:03:13] pursuing both of those boys [indistinct 00:03:14]. One got married recently. [indistinct 00:03:18], whatever he is. And his mother, the same thing happened to her. I'm trying to think where she's from, some little town somewhere in South Carolina. And they did the same thing to her, too. She was [indistinct 00:03:28] two years. [indistinct 00:03:31].	3:03
Lorene Carter Poole	See, now they test you. When they come to our school, you know, and as a teacher, I've experienced where they come to the school, they test the children who have gone—if they don't really know what grade they're in, until their records can come, they test them and see what level they may be on and they put them there. But then when records come back, and if it's a grade higher, then they'd put them in that grade. But if it's lower, then they'd put them lower. Whatever.	3:32
Blair Murphy	Do you think it was too—	4:00
Lorene Carter Poole	It's a way of testing now they didn't have then.	4:01
Blair Murphy	Do you think that they were trying to discourage Black people from sending their children to private schools?	4:04
Lorene Carter Poole	No. They didn't have no ruling on—I don't know. I guess if you didn't go to a state school, they didn't have laws governing on Black private schools, I imagine, at that time.	4:12
Blair Murphy	How did your family come to put you in a private school to begin with?	4:25
Lorene Carter Poole	Well, that was—My mother probably died by the time I was four, and my mother's first cousin had to take me and rear me. And she just put me in Ms. [indistinct 00:04:43] school. [indistinct 00:04:43] school.	4:29
Blair Murphy	Okay.	4:42
Lorene Carter Poole	I'd have to look, because of course math is my weakest subject. But I excelled, was an honor student in high school [indistinct 00:04:56]. It helped. I guess material to help. I did two years behind, and knowing ahead, I guess that probably helped. In the long run it really was a blessing, I imagine.	4:43
Blair Murphy	Do you—	5:08
Lorene Carter Poole	So that's why I said I don't—the thing in New York was a matter of visiting—I remember I should have been in school. I think we left there about the first of October or so, and she—Really my brother and my sister-in-law were having some marital problems and she did not want to stay. He's, well, not the good guy at that time. He was fooling around or whatever.	5:08
Lorene Carter Poole	He wasn't nice to her, so we came back, and she took me and raised me for a while as her own. She was just like a mother to me. [indistinct 00:05:47] I was adopted later by her first cousin.	5:39
Blair Murphy	Okay.	5:57
Lorene Carter Poole	That's how I was able to get, I am the first Black to get the scholarship, [indistinct 00:05:57] Graniteville Company's scholarship. And believe it or not, my next door neighbor tried to get something else. Mr. [indistinct 00:06:06] and his wife and Ms. [indistinct 00:06:08], the same lady who runs the [indistinct 00:06:10] School, was instrumental in it, to ensure that—	5:57
Lorene Carter Poole	Well, they were friends of hers. And so, they wanted to see my grades and all. [indistinct 00:06:21] people are really mean. But anyways, they saw that they wouldn't authorize to [indistinct 00:06:28] my grades [indistinct 00:06:30] scholarship.	6:15
Lorene Carter Poole	See, what had happened, Graniteville Company, it was a big company all throughout the Graniteville, Clearwater, [indistinct 00:06:47], Augusta and all those areas. I think [indistinct 00:06:49]. It's a mill town. It was a mill town. Everyone had a mill. They had one in Clearwater, which is just across the river in north Augusta. From Augusta, Georgia. They only know what [indistinct 00:07:01]. And they had been giving scholarships to the Whites all along [indistinct 00:07:08] kids in [indistinct 00:07:09] foster mother, adoptive mother, so to speak. And [indistinct 00:07:14], he worked for the company for years. He had been in there for years, and this was the first venture to see if a Black could get it.	6:35
Lorene Carter Poole	And that was in '52, now [indistinct 00:07:25] happened in '52. And finally, they decided, and after that, that opened up the doorway for every—a Black child every year to get the scholarship. What you have to do, you [indistinct 00:07:39]. I could've gone to any school in the nation, or even any country I wanted to go to just so I pay half the money back. [indistinct 00:07:46] Chicago Art Institute and said, "Hello, you need to stay at home, you stay subdued."	7:23
Lorene Carter Poole	That was [indistinct 00:07:54] was the only school at that time that offered a major in Art. That's the only reason why I went to [indistinct 00:07:59], because I really wanted Benedict. But at that time Benedict did not have a major, you couldn't major in Art. That's why I [indistinct 00:08:05]. Interesting, going to a [indistinct 00:08:08] in Chicago Art Institute. That when they look, they didn't want me to go in that car, [indistinct 00:08:16].	7:51
Lorene Carter Poole	So, anyway—	8:15
Blair Murphy	So—	8:15
Lorene Carter Poole	I did okay.	8:15
Blair Murphy	Were there a lot of Blacks that worked at the mill? At the Graniteville?	8:15
Lorene Carter Poole	Yeah, quite a few. Everybody was there, you know, to make their living. Even people coming from Edgefield County drive that far to work in the mills. Scranton—	8:23
Blair Murphy	And had they been working at the mills for—so, like 20 or 30 years? Or—	8:36
Lorene Carter Poole	Ever since I was a little girl Blacks have been working in the mill. Long years before that. They didn't seem to have—[indistinct 00:08:52] if you were White. At that time, I told our principal that one time. I said, "I've always wanted [indistinct 00:09:02]." [indistinct 00:09:04] whatever I told him. Integration, desegregation, whatever you want, you know. Integration, I said because we, Blacks and Whites in my other hometown live in the same, start in the same neighborhood. Someone [indistinct 00:09:17] on the White neighborhood was right there and then we joined. Blacks start right next door. I don't even know.	8:41
Lorene Carter Poole	And they were all friendly, everybody got along well in a small town. So, I never had to worry about whether I could get used to integration or not. Because we were always—	9:23
Lorene Carter Poole	People in the mill were very friendly, although, you know, there were some Blacks who didn't work at the mill who worked as maids and all, because I worked—I used to tend to the houses when I was in high school. I'd walk nine blocks and work.	9:32
Lorene Carter Poole	And this labor in mill, was in the mill town, you know? I'd walk nine blocks on Saturday mornings, be here [indistinct 00:09:58] so eight. Juniper house, I mean, then going up. One of the bosses made—his wife had me to come and do their [indistinct 00:10:08] one. One floor and her cute little girl's dresses. And so I [indistinct 00:10:15] vacuumed the living room and dining room. That's all I had to do. At that time we didn't make the three hours a day. 15 hours a week.	9:47
Blair Murphy	Was this your first job?	10:23
Lorene Carter Poole	No, because I used to also work for the [indistinct 00:10:30]. I'd go clean their house up on Saturdays.	10:27
Blair Murphy	These are the people who owned the school?	10:34
Lorene Carter Poole	Yeah.	10:36
Blair Murphy	This was a White family?	10:37
Lorene Carter Poole	Me and my sister-in-law family moved right behind there. The street right behind them, and I could just walk across and—	10:38
Blair Murphy	So, they were a Black family.	10:46
Lorene Carter Poole	[indistinct 00:10:47] in front of me.	10:46
Blair Murphy	They were a Black family?	10:47
Lorene Carter Poole	Oh, yeah. You know, they were a family. The father [indistinct 00:10:56] the Sunday school church and whatnot. And the mother, her always been a teacher and all their children were college graduates. All of the [indistinct 00:11:10]. Every one of them, their children, educated. And [indistinct 00:11:15].	10:48
Blair Murphy	Do you remember hearing how they came to found that school?	11:18
Lorene Carter Poole	[indistinct 00:11:20] call, I call on our team meetings. I don't know, I just knew that—well, it was right in the community. They lived, it was in her house, you know? It was in her house. [indistinct 00:11:39] it was right in the house. We went to school in her house.	11:20
Blair Murphy	Okay.	11:40
Lorene Carter Poole	She would give us an assignment, she'd go out and probably hang out a thing of clothes while we were working on our assignment. Between lessons she'd do it. But I [indistinct 00:11:55] weren't there. We were sort of ahead of other kids. But I was the one that didn't like math, I don't know that. I used to hate to go to the board. She had a board that she'd stand—stand at the board here and pull [indistinct 00:12:11].	11:42
Lorene Carter Poole	She'd say, "I thought I told you to have this problem written." You know, they were laughed at. That's—teachers talked like that then. Made you do, you know. Now, you do if you want, you don't you don't care, you don't care, your parents done care, the teachers probably don't care either now. But at that time, you better get your work. Yeah, she would get [indistinct 00:12:29]. She had a thing of switches, she'd switch you on the leg. You didn't get your work.	12:10
Blair Murphy	So, how many students would she hae in her home?	12:33
Lorene Carter Poole	I don't know, maybe like six to seven or more. I know it was six or more. I don't even think she had 10 at a time. So she had a chance to spend more time with us. So, I'd been reading [indistinct 00:13:03] and thought of going to state school.	12:42
Lorene Carter Poole	And whether y'all need it again, have I been talking all the time?	13:10
Blair Murphy	Yeah, you've been talking all that time.	13:11
Lorene Carter Poole	I have?	13:12
Blair Murphy	Mm-hmm.	13:12
Lorene Carter Poole	Oh, okay.	13:12
Blair Murphy	Were there boys and girls at the school, or was it—	13:17
Lorene Carter Poole	Yes.	13:19
Blair Murphy	Okay.	13:20
Lorene Carter Poole	Boys and girls.	13:20
Blair Murphy	And you lived there? In her home? [indistinct 00:13:24]	13:21
Lorene Carter Poole	No, no, no, I went around there every day just like you'd go to any other school in a day. [indistinct 00:13:30] the day.	13:24
Lorene Carter Poole	It was [indistinct 00:13:37] because some of the parents worked and they could drop them off in the morning and they knew that if they were at Ms. Winnie Palmore's, the children would be all right.	13:28
Blair Murphy	Could you spell her last name?	13:46
Lorene Carter Poole	It's P A L M O R E.	13:49
Blair Murphy	Okay.	13:52
Lorene Carter Poole	Palmore.	13:52
Blair Murphy	Was that recorded [indistinct 00:13:56]? Okay. Sorry about that, just wanted to make sure we're doing this right. Yes. So, you want to talk about the—	13:53
Blair Murphy	You said something about Freedman's Graded school? That you had gone there?	14:14
Lorene Carter Poole	Yes, I entered there. Well, the Graniteville currently did not have—the schools were not integrated [indistinct 00:14:25] 40, 41 [indistinct 00:14:32]. And so the company built all the schools, they furnished all the schools. They had the schools built for the Black children from grades one through eight. It was Freedman Graded School, that's what it was called. And at the time, they had—can't remember the other school, but anyway I know the high school. They had a high school and a middle school for [indistinct 00:14:57] children in the community.	14:18
Blair Murphy	And so that was—	15:01
Lorene Carter Poole	You see, the little town was named Graniteville.	15:01
Blair Murphy	Oh, okay.	15:03
Lorene Carter Poole	So—	15:04
Blair Murphy	So that wasn't a state school, that was like—	15:05
Lorene Carter Poole	I think they had to abide by the rules and relations of the state, but the company, the Graniteville Manufacturing Company, was the [indistinct 00:15:21] where the money came from. They had to build all the schools.	15:08
Blair Murphy	So they had—	15:25
Lorene Carter Poole	That school, but they only had—now, they built a big high school for the Whites. They didn't go any farther than grades one through eight, Black children. And you had to catch the bus and ride to Aiken, South Carolina from home [indistinct 00:15:49] schools. In order to get the ninth grade.	15:29
Lorene Carter Poole	[indistinct 00:15:53]. Well, that's why they [indistinct 00:15:54] for a while. I mean, some of the schools all over the state only went through 11 grade for a while for White and Black. 11th grade. Find that they added 12th grade on several years before I [indistinct 00:16:07]. Because I had a friend of mine who went through 11th grade and graduated at [indistinct 00:16:14], whereas her sisters and all the rest of us ended up in twelfth grade. Think that was the policy in South Carolina, if I remember. High schools only went as far as 11th grade for a while.	15:50
Lorene Carter Poole	I'm not sure whether it was just for Blacks or for Whites, but I think it was throughout the state. I'm not sure about that. The whole state.	16:30
Blair Murphy	And do you remember if the schools that the company had built for the White students, was that a lot better, or was it similar accommodations that they—	16:38
Lorene Carter Poole	We had similar accommodations as far as I know. And the only thing about it, the state would send the old books from the schools, you know. The White schools would have the new books, and then when they finished with them, they would send them to us. But I do remember that, because I remember names. I'm not sure whether it was the state or the county. I better not say the state—	16:48
Lorene Carter Poole	Probably the county. Probably Aiken County did that. That was all over the state because my husband, the same thing happened to him. He remembers when he was a child that they got the old books [indistinct 00:17:32] White students in the schools.	17:15
Lorene Carter Poole	But even at that, we learned.	17:38
Lorene Carter Poole	When I started in ninth grade, when I finished eighth grade at Freedman Graded, this was the first year that we had school buses. School buses would transport us to Schofield. We had yellow state school bus because the state was negotiating with people, the board at Martha Schofield to take over, for the school to become a state school.	17:40
Lorene Carter Poole	See, it was a private school. It was purchased, built by the Quakers and owned by the Quakers. And at that time, that's when the state had started proceedings to buy Schofield from the Quakers. And therefore they funded school buses for all the children in my home town and [indistinct 00:18:47], I believe [indistinct 00:18:49] was around—South Carolina, which is only about 10 minutes from Graniteville headed towards Edgemont County.	18:22
Lorene Carter Poole	And all the children that were north of Augusta, South Carolina, all that whole area, all the way from north Augusta to Bath, Langley, Clearwater—all those children were transported on yellow school buses. And don't you ever rat on [indistinct 00:19:16].	18:52
Lorene Carter Poole	All of us were transported, and that's even from Sally, South Carolina, Wagner, South Carolina. Morency, Williston, South Carolina. All of us. And Elleton. Remember Elleton? What used to—well, they moved the town to the—we call it [indistinct 00:19:41] Savannah. Plant—Elleton used to be located somewhere else. Well, whatever.	19:17
Lorene Carter Poole	Anyway, the children came from that area, too. Elleton, Willison, Wagner, Sally, South Carolina—why can't I think of another town? [indistinct 00:20:06]. Richspring. Richspring, South Carolina as well.	19:48
Blair Murphy	Okay.	19:53
Lorene Carter Poole	Yeah, all of those children came from there, and all of us came to [indistinct 00:20:19]. And we rode the school bus there, to Schofield.	20:20
Lorene Carter Poole	And in our first year there, students were still living on the campus. The ninth grade students were still—there was half, part off campus, and then [indistinct 00:20:37] were still living, bullying on the campus. I think I met you in 10th grade, I think that was when you complete.	20:21
Lorene Carter Poole	I don't really [indistinct 00:20:48] 10th grade [indistinct 00:20:48]. I'm not sure about that. But before I finished, it was all state. Everybody was being transported [indistinct 00:20:55], everybody was coming to school.	20:48
Blair Murphy	What year was it?	20:57
Lorene Carter Poole	I entered there in eighth grade. [indistinct 00:21:07]. Trying to think. I'm trying to think back. Anyway, I was in 10th grade when [indistinct 00:21:30]. Yeah, I finished [indistinct 00:21:37].	21:00
Blair Murphy	So, late 1940s?	21:26
Lorene Carter Poole	The first ninth grade in '49. That's it.	21:41
Blair Murphy	So, in 1949—	21:44
Lorene Carter Poole	That's not being taped, though.	21:45
Blair Murphy	No, just now. Just trying to [indistinct 00:21:49].	21:47
Lorene Carter Poole	Okay. That's when I entered Schofield. And we were all riding on—all of the children that were transported were transported on the yellow buses where the White kids used to walk by, they'd walk by and holler, they'd call us, you know, [n word 00:22:07] and all that out the window. Lick their tongues and all that. We'd have to take it.	21:48
Lorene Carter Poole	But they were being transported. You see, they were being transported from Graniteville when I was at Freedman Graded School by the yellow buses all along. But we weren't, we had to walk eight or nine blocks in the rain or whatever, [indistinct 00:22:20]. And we'd walk back, and they [indistinct 00:22:26]. It's common where they would live, because someone was walking because we'd see—	22:08
Lorene Carter Poole	Another thing happened when I was at Freedman Graded School. We used to get out the same time at school in the day, and we would go up town and the White—and Black kids didn't go on the sidewalk. The Black kids didn't want to let the Whites by and vice versa. They didn't want to move out the way, neither way [indistinct 00:22:52]. So, it caused some problems. And what they did, they start letting the White kids out early.	22:30
Blair Murphy	Oh.	23:01
Lorene Carter Poole	I noticed that later, [indistinct 00:23:02] was right between [indistinct 00:23:03]. Could've been 1:30 or two o'clock and we got out at 2:30, whatever. Something like that. Or 2:45. I don't remember the exact time, but anyway, they start being let out earlier and then we were let out later so that there wouldn't be no conflict when we'd go uptown. We'd be bumping each other. [indistinct 00:23:21] elbow each other and all that kind of stuff.	23:01
Lorene Carter Poole	And I think some of the children must've gone home and told their parents, and so that was stopped.	23:23
Blair Murphy	Was there a lot of controversy between Black and White in your town, or—	23:31
Lorene Carter Poole	No. It was—we didn't have that. Like I said, I—as I told the principal, being from a small town, it's always been interracial. Well, you know, you didn't live really mixed. The whole town, you know—But your community was joined—	23:34
Blair Murphy	By the same street—	23:55
Lorene Carter Poole	Negro on the same [indistinct 00:23:58]. My [indistinct 00:24:01] knows grandmother lived on the same street with Whites, they just didn't live in between and all that. They just, the Black started on the next door and on up. And the Whites went then on down. They didn't mix all in.	23:57
Blair Murphy	Was there a Black business district?	24:09
Lorene Carter Poole	No. We had some business, they owned restaurants. Mostly restaurants. You know, like the clubs where you go and dance and then you order food and—	24:21
Lorene Carter Poole	Miss Nanny Brooks was one of the main owners of a big place she had. She had an [indistinct 00:24:47] and she'd fix meals and prepare meals, and then she had a private room where you could go in and eat in the dining area, and you had this big space area where you could dance.	24:39
Lorene Carter Poole	Then there was a place called Sixth Spot. Sixth Spot owned by the second family. One of the brothers owned this place, and that's where the young people used to kind of hang out, there. I wasn't allowed to hang out there. The only time I was hanging out there was when I came back for one Christmas where I'd gone to college and came back. One of my friends had her party because he had [indistinct 00:25:27] in the back, it was private and real nice. Umbrellas up, all that kind of stuff. Classy. Now it looks like a ghost, you know, this town has gone down.	24:58
Lorene Carter Poole	The brother that owned it decided to stop that and he started being a minister in Beulah on the hill and that sold to the bank, so it's not—it's there, but that's all. It's just sitting there. Need to be torn down.	25:39
Blair Murphy	Did—y'all went to separate high schools. Did people work side by side in the mill? Did Black people and White people work side by side in the mill?	25:55
Lorene Carter Poole	I don't know, I think there were—[indistinct 00:26:11], or wait a minute, three it goes on—[indistinct 00:26:16]. I think they may have, I don't know. Because she had some White friends. They knew each other. I don't know. I don't know about that part.	26:04
Lorene Carter Poole	They're not—but I'm saying, you know, with the high schools, see, they didn't have one for Blacks in Graniteville.	26:29
Blair Murphy	That's why y'all traveled.	26:35
Lorene Carter Poole	That's why we had to be transported.	26:36
Blair Murphy	Right.	26:36
Lorene Carter Poole	And just before my ninth grade year, we had to catch the valley coaches which ran from Augusta, Georgia to Aiken. Back and forth from Augusta, Georgia, all through the valley here. And the kids would walk over the number one highway and catch that. See, we didn't [indistinct 00:26:58]. We'd just walk back [indistinct 00:27:00] home through our separate route in an area, a wooded area with a beautiful pond. You'd go across there, you'd go across the railroad track and there, that's the number one highway. And they had to catch the bus like that.	26:45
Lorene Carter Poole	But I luckily was able to catch the regular bus that transported us over to Schofield.	27:15
Blair Murphy	How much did the valley coach cost?	27:24
Lorene Carter Poole	Oh goodness, maybe like 15 cents? About 15 cents, probably, one way. Because I used to catch the bus and go to Augusta myself. Go shopping in Augusta, Georgia. That was one of the main shopping [indistinct 00:27:42]. We had dates at that time, and all the exclusive stores located in Augusta on Main, on Broad Street in Augusta. That was our main shopping street.	27:27
Blair Murphy	So that was a Black shopping district? Or—	27:53
Lorene Carter Poole	No, it was just like any other city at that time. Black businesses were located farther in Black neighborhoods in Augusta. There was one Black theater called Lenox Theater, and that's where I used to go to the movies every Saturday. See, when I was with y cousin, we lived down near Clearwater. And we could walk across the bridge. We walked, we didn't live that far from Augusta. We could walk. So, we'd go to Augusta every Saturday, walk on that bridge, I don't know whether you've ever been across there. An old bridge. And we walked there, and I'd go to, we'd walk several blocks from downtown out in the Black area to Lenox Theater. Have you heard of Lenox? I wonder if Lenox had a new whatever—	27:57
Blair Murphy	Mm-hmm.	28:50
Lorene Carter Poole	But no, they had, it was a Black theater. All Blacks went there, and all the stars that came, like [indistinct 00:29:07] and—who were some of the stars? Fancy ones. A number of stars at that time that [indistinct 00:29:07] all those. They used to come there for the matinee because parents [indistinct 00:29:11] wouldn't let them go to the dances that was held in the auditorium. The Bell Auditorium in Augusta, Georgia.	28:51
Lorene Carter Poole	So, I would go, my adoptive mother would let me go with her niece who was grown, you know. We'd take a group of teenagers over to see the stars. The matinee show where they would perform down on the stage in the theater. Lenox Theater. You couldn't go to the dance they were going to be that night. [indistinct 00:29:38] teenagers you would lie to be going out dancing [indistinct 00:29:41] teenagers [indistinct 00:29:44] some kids are 12 and 13. I see them all at night.	29:20
Lorene Carter Poole	You were not allowed out, and if you went to those you've got an older person would take you. Maybe if you were 12 and 13, maybe your sister that had graduated from high school or whatever. Or a neighbor or somebody would take you to the matinee shows. That's how [indistinct 00:30:07] all those stars who used to appear in Augusta.	29:48
Blair Murphy	What other kinds of things did you do for entertainment?	30:12
Lorene Carter Poole	Used to play softball, I was a Girl Scout. I had been a Girl Scout from the time [indistinct 00:30:23] I graduated I was a Girl Scout. There was the organizer of my town. Trying to thing of the lady's name. Mrs. Maymen Monday was the first organizer and she worked with the Black group from my town. They had called her, and people from Aiken. Leaders, White leaders came and help her to organize the Brownies and the Girl Scouts. And I was too old to be a Brownie, so I had to be a Girl Scout. And they organized.	30:17
Lorene Carter Poole	And I played on the softball team all the way through Girl Scouts. And camping. Used to go camping every year. So, but other than that I was in the church. Church was my salvation, because [indistinct 00:31:13] the church and it was right across the street from the house. [indistinct 00:31:16] cross [indistinct 00:31:16]. I don't know who that would've been, because my little town was a little town that—I don't know, like, it breeded alcoholics.	30:55
Lorene Carter Poole	My husband said that on a date.	31:22
Blair Murphy	What kind of church was it, first?	31:36
Lorene Carter Poole	Well, I was christened in the AME church, and I attended there for a while. But after my first, mother's first cousin who [indistinct 00:31:48] was nine years old passed, I was at the Methodist [indistinct 00:31:54] church. But after I moved with my brother and his wife, he belonged to Bethlehem Baptist Church which was, we call it on the hill, because you had to walk several blocks to get there. And my sister-in-law was going to [indistinct 00:32:07] Baptist. And so I decided that it didn't make sense for three people to be going to three different churches in the house, so I decided to go to church with my sister-in-law.	31:38
Lorene Carter Poole	And I joined that church when I was 10 years old. [indistinct 00:32:21] Baptist Church. I had the opportunity of going back in November of last year and celebrating the 100th anniversary of that church.	32:16
Blair Murphy	What type of things would you do—	32:34
Lorene Carter Poole	In the church?	32:38
Blair Murphy	Yeah.	32:39
Lorene Carter Poole	Organizations for youth?	32:39
Blair Murphy	Yeah.	32:40
Lorene Carter Poole	Well, they had a youth choir in the church. They also had a junior usher board that I was on. And they had the BTU, well it wasn't BTU then, it was called—I've forgotten the name of that. It's called BTU now, but it was called something else when I was a child. But it's the same thing.	32:42
Lorene Carter Poole	In the evenings we'd have that discussions and stuff like that. Then, you know, the regular things like at Christmas programs, and then Easter speeches which I detested. I was shy and I didn't like getting up and speaking but I had to. Nervous wreck.	33:08
Lorene Carter Poole	We had that. And we had other programs, you know. Mother's Day programs and things like—leisure things that people can [indistinct 00:33:35] at that time.	33:27
Lorene Carter Poole	And I would go to Sunday school. I love Sunday school. If they didn't have breakfast ready, I'd leave and take off to Sunday school without breakfast. I never let food keep me from going to church any time. That's my thing. That was my main activity for me. Church.	33:36
Lorene Carter Poole	And then, see, what happened in our community, you know, with the only [indistinct 00:34:08] church had service on first and third Sundays. And then Bethlehem had service on second and forth, so we would automatically be in church either place. Never [indistinct 00:34:18] you would never have church. And on Easter Sunday they had it like this, that [indistinct 00:34:28] would be earlier so you could go to the ANE church to their Easter program. They had the schedule where you could go to all three programs if you wanted to. That's how the three churches worked together.	34:03
Blair Murphy	So one church didn't have church every Sunday?	34:43
Lorene Carter Poole	I think the Methodist church did. Methodist church did. But the two Baptist churches did not.	34:47
Blair Murphy	Was it the same preacher in each one of them?	34:54
Lorene Carter Poole	No.	34:56
Blair Murphy	They just didn't have any?	34:57
Lorene Carter Poole	Well that, for some reason, that was one of the customs doing—I think they still have—some places I think they still have that, where they just have service two Sundays. I'm not sure. [indistinct 00:35:14]. They still have it in that area, because I think someone we know, pastors, one church on first and third now, and second and forth, I think he has, he pastors two churches. And that's how you have to do it. Somebody that we know, my husband knows, does that now.	34:58
Lorene Carter Poole	So, that was, for some reason, I guess in our little town, they done in that way, in that area, called the valley, that's what they did. The Methodist church had service every Sunday. Baptist churches was different, but they have regular service now I know in Aiken and other places, it's every Sunday. And I have a family connection who pastors, has been pastoring my home church for a number of years now. I call him Ronnie, because I knew him when he was in diapers. But anyway, he—they have service every Sunday now. It's not just two Sundays. It's every Sunday he's there.	35:37
Blair Murphy	In the first interview you mentioned something about a cross thing burned?	36:24
Lorene Carter Poole	Oh, yeah. That dealt with the NACP being a member of the NACP. My god sister that lived next door to us, we were told that's why that cross was burned in the ball park. See, where we lived, we lived on kind of a main street where church and then, you know, nextdoor neighbors and so on. And the Graniteville Company had given us a park right in front of my house, it was right in front of my house, where baseball was played. [indistinct 00:37:05] baseball team. They organized their team and everything. And that's where they played ball. It was the most center of the summer, the whole center of everything. They had everything in the ball park.	36:30
Lorene Carter Poole	Played ball, bring our own games every year from, because I've been going—and I used to travel all up here and—[indistinct 00:37:30], all in those areas with my foster father for baseball games. I knew all about [indistinct 00:37:35] years ago. [indistinct 00:37:37].	37:17
Lorene Carter Poole	But anyway, that's where some activities would take place and so—we never really knew that was the reason, but that's what we—still, and you know, you could not be, couldn't hardly let it be known if you were a teacher that you [indistinct 00:37:56] in some places. But they didn't [indistinct 00:37:59] because [indistinct 00:37:59] she was a member. They said Ku Klux Klan burned that cross there, but we never really knew whether it was a myth, whether it was true or untrue.	37:37
Blair Murphy	So what year was that?	38:08
Lorene Carter Poole	I can't remember one year, but I do remember my foster daddy, he had a tragic accident [indistinct 00:38:17] years before that and was in a wheelchair and had broken his neck, his back. But I remember him in his wheelchair he had [indistinct 00:38:28]. And he got in the door and he said that they better not come in his yard because he would take some of them [indistinct 00:38:36] gone. Well, he didn't use that expression, but he said he'd at least get two or three before they came in our house.	38:10
Lorene Carter Poole	But they didn't do anything, they just burned a cross out there. I never knew why they burned the cross. But we heard a rumor later that it was because my nextdoor neighbor was a member of the NAACP, and they were trying to scare, I guess, the rest of the Blacks I guess. [indistinct 00:38:59], I don't know.	38:44
Blair Murphy	Do you know anything about that chapter of the NAACP in your town?	39:00
Lorene Carter Poole	Because I didn't join NAACP until I went to college [indistinct 00:39:11]. And I thought you did [indistinct 00:39:13]. You were in that little town. I'm not sure whether it was a chapter in our town, or it was in Aiken. I'm not sure. She was a school teacher [indistinct 00:39:26].	39:16
Blair Murphy	Okay. What—I know your parents died when you were young, do you remember what work they did?	39:31
Lorene Carter Poole	All right, my mother worked, she was a domestic worker. Because I remember when she used to take me to work with her and the Black kids would babysit with me while she worked. And that's the kind of work she did. And I [indistinct 00:40:00], and I thought—I was six years old when my mother died. [indistinct 00:40:05] since you were four. Because I can remember her when she would take me to work with her.	39:38
Lorene Carter Poole	I also remember when she died [indistinct 00:40:13]. So, I always thought I was six years old. [indistinct 00:40:18]. Was only four.	40:10
Lorene Carter Poole	My mother had a rough life, that's why I was born out of wedlock. She married very, very young, and she had—Well, my foster mother told me that my mother would have had 13 children. She had some miscarriages. But anyway, three of my brothers on my mother's side lived. I was the next one [indistinct 00:40:47] on my mother's side [indistinct 00:40:53].	40:24
Lorene Carter Poole	And what happened, her husband left her with the children, with those three children. She had to raise three girls, and went to live with an old lady. And my foster mother told me everything. She knew that a doctor [indistinct 00:41:17]. Because they were very good friends. And, because she said that the first coat suit that she ever had, my mother gave it to her. But anyway, she always loved my mother as a sister. She loved her. She wasn't her sister, but you don't have to be just to love each other.	40:54
Lorene Carter Poole	And she said that my brother's father was very mean to my mother, and he left her for another lady in town, and my mother hadn't [indistinct 00:41:45] town supporting the children, [indistinct 00:41:47], and hardly wood to burn in the fire, different things. Food to eat and stuff. And you'd drive by the other lady's house and she had coals all in here, you know, been using coal heaters. Coal heaters. And they were all—	41:35
Lorene Carter Poole	And she caught a rough time. And my father owned a lot of land, and he farmed and had owned a lot of land. [indistinct 00:42:11] gosh, a lot of land. But anyway, and so he felt sorry for us, started coming, you know, and helping her out and all. So, that's how I came along.	42:02
Lorene Carter Poole	Because people now live together [indistinct 00:42:33]. Yeah, okay. Cut that. Y'all don't need to have that in.	42:32
Blair Murphy	All right, so you were telling me about your brother.	42:33
Lorene Carter Poole	I was just saying that my brother left when I was about six years old on my father's side. He was a [indistinct 00:42:43]. And gave me the little, I always remember he gave me the little green rocking chair with a straw bottom in it and several [indistinct 00:42:54] little girl, and several other little things that he thought a little girl would need and told me bye, and left.	42:37
Lorene Carter Poole	And that was, he was a brother on my father's side. And we reunited after I became a grown woman with two children, married with two children. Because my other brothers, we were so close until me—we stayed in contact. Well, they were friends. They were all in New York, their family, [indistinct 00:43:31] in New York and they knew where he was, and they were all like brothers. And so they decided to say hi to little baby sis who's married down there in South Carolina, who's married and has children.	43:01
Lorene Carter Poole	See, I stayed in touch with my other brothers on my mother's side. We never lost contact with each other. They'd call whenever I'd write. When I was in college I would write [indistinct 00:43:53] on my mother's side.	43:42
Lorene Carter Poole	And so they decided to give us a trip there. They wanted to meet my husband and my children. My oldest daughter, you see her right there, that's her [indistinct 00:44:07] picture. She was 16 months old when they saw her, and my son, don't remember his age, but at least they're four days apart but being two years apart.	43:54
Lorene Carter Poole	Her birthday is April the 20th and my oldest child, this is [indistinct 00:44:31], his birthday is April the 24th, so it [indistinct 00:44:34] when I brought her home from the hospital [indistinct 00:44:36] on his birthday. So, that's why I can't get figure out 16 months or [indistinct 00:44:46] whatever his birthday was. 16 months out.	44:20
Lorene Carter Poole	But anyway, they gave us a trip there for a family reunion. And my sister on my father's side who used to come and visit a family there in Graniteville, a couple years when family would come visit her, she stayed in contact by visiting me. Coming down. She was in the hospital at the time to lose weight. And she got permission from her doctor [indistinct 00:45:10] hospital [indistinct 00:45:12]. I guess she weighed 300 or more pounds. And she had already lost about 30 or 40 in there, but she's had strokes of staying in there longer, but she got out for the reunion. I got to meet her children that time.	44:45
Lorene Carter Poole	And that's how—Now I know two of my nieces and I know I got a grand-nephew that lives here in [indistinct 00:45:37], it's amazing how fate is. Unfortunately, he did his wife the same way. His wife, but they live in a beautiful neighborhood out near—on [indistinct 00:45:55] the road? You know there's several residential areas out there, you've got [indistinct 00:46:04]. You've got two or three other areas. And he is while I visit them. And they had two children, they had two lovely children. He just—he just walked away and left. And he fathered a child with some lady now. But his wife is doing okay. She's handling it.	45:24
Lorene Carter Poole	And he just said it was just too much church for him. Isn't that an excuse to say? [indistinct 00:46:34] church here and church there. But anyway, that's what his mother told me. [indistinct 00:46:41]. They make the time, they come here every Monday to the church—	46:23

Lorene Carter Poole	What was I going to say?	0:00
Blair Murphy	I was asking you about when you went to school. You've explained about your scholarship.	0:12
Lorene Carter Poole	Oh, yeah. I received a scholarship from The Great Granville Foundation. I think I've already explained that to you, what it's about. I went to school. And then I had to maintain a certain average to keep the scholarship. Anyway, I maintained and I made an honor student.	0:18
Blair Murphy	What types of things did you do?	0:58
Lorene Carter Poole	Well, first of all, I affiliated with the Methodist Student Movement. It's an organization that most anything that had to do with Christianity and things like that. I joined that. I don't remember all we did. I think we set certain goals that we were to accomplish and whatever as far as the Methodist Church is concerned in our life, with our problems in our lives. That's one reason why I joined that club. That organization, I should say. My next goal was to become a member of a sorority, and I already said that I was going to be a Delta because our team lady is the same lady that runs some other [indistinct 00:02:16] school.	1:05
Lorene Carter Poole	I had gone to New York because that summer, the summer before I entered college, and they had met. That sorority sent me a suitcase filled with all kinds of gifts, and they had made a horn, I don't remember, or something. She brought it back with filled gifts, and I said, if was going to be anything, I was going to be a Delta. I said if I wasn't going to be a Delta, I wasn't going to join in a sorority.	2:16
Lorene Carter Poole	But anyway, I pledged spring of my freshman year. And I went over in spring of my sophomore year. I think I missed the average one point that December of my sophomore year. But then I went up to a three point whatever it was to make sure I would get in the next semester.	2:50
Lorene Carter Poole	Y'all can start asking some more questions.	3:22
Blair Murphy	I have a question. You spoke a lot about church involvement, with church. Was there a family member who influenced you? What compelled you to be so involved in church? What about church?	3:34
Lorene Carter Poole	I don't know. I guess I'd had so many experiences—. I just saw so much—so many things that were wrong that inspired me to—I just had a spiritual thing about being relieved when I was in church. Being relieved, seeing so many people dealing with alcohol, sometimes. The church was like a haven for me to escape from other things that were happening in our community, more or less. I felt very peaceful there, only in church. I still feel the same way I did, too.	3:50
Lorene Carter Poole	I'm not sure if you know [indistinct 00:04:50], he ran for Secretary of State, a democrat, in Columbia this year, but I heard him say, I always said, he made the statement that the church was my salvation, and I wouldn't be where I am today without the church. So, one day, I was walking out the choir. We sang the choir all together. Singing was required in our church. And I heard him make that [indistinct 00:05:07] statement, and I said, "Oh, that's what I've always said. And you felt that way, too, Mr. [indistinct 00:05:16]." Church has always been a salvation.	4:50
Lorene Carter Poole	You forget about what's really happening out there for a while. And then you regain your strength in dealing with it once you come out. And I've always had that, even when I was a child. I had to deal with certain things. The church would always relieve me, whatever pain I was suffering inside, whatever. I'd always end up finding a way to deal with it, once I had that spiritual feeling of spiritual uplift in church.	5:21
Lorene Carter Poole	I made that my home. That's the same way now, even now. I can deal with things. I learned in early age about Christ and all things, in Sunday school as a child. I knew right from wrong. I'm not a perfect angel, I know that. All of us have sinned. But at least I knew that when I was wrong, I was wrong. You see, some children, they're raised, that are read by their homes—When they're doing wrong, nobody tells them that they're wrong, and so they keep doing wrong. But I always had a sense of knowing that I was wrong when I was wrong and right when I was right. I think the Church had something to do with it.	5:54
Lorene Carter Poole	Now the church, in the bible, suffer so that every child—because if I didn't think I've done something or said something. You know when you're wrong, regardless.	6:47
Lorene Carter Poole	I have taught students that come from home that have no sense of wrongs, because they were allowed to do anything. Do as you please, whatever. They had no sense of wrongness because no one was there to tell them they were wrong. No one told them they were wrong.	7:12
Blair Murphy	When did you start teaching?	7:43
Lorene Carter Poole	I've always had that sense of right or wrong.	7:45
Blair Murphy	When did you start teaching?	7:45
Lorene Carter Poole	I started teaching in August of 1956. And actually, the school opened up in August, but I knew we had to be here for 20—the new teachers had to be here on the 24th of August, a week, that's right, for about four days of training. I think school opened up the following Monday. We were here starting that Monday morning, and four days of instruction and all that would be expected, and so forth.	7:46
Lorene Carter Poole	Then, I think we met our schools at [indistinct 00:08:25]. We could meet our principal and our staff now. I think the children came in—I don't know whether it was the Tuesday after Labor Day, I'm not sure.	8:24
Blair Murphy	So that was a Black school?	8:37
Lorene Carter Poole	Yes, W. A. Perry, a brand new school. We called it Little University at that time. The astronaut. We taught a lot of kids. I didn't finish getting my masters, but I have students that I've taught that have their masters, PhD, the astronaut, Charles Bolden, several other people who are now doctors, the dentist. I taught someone who was—who was the child? Oh, Gerald Jenkins, oh my God, when he was a little fella.	8:38
Lorene Carter Poole	We taught them in seven—At that time, they only had seven and eighth grade for the first few years, and then they later added ninth grade.	9:06
Blair Murphy	What grade did you teach?	9:29
Lorene Carter Poole	All of them.	9:29
Blair Murphy	Oh, okay.	9:29
Lorene Carter Poole	Seventh, eighth, ninth. And then after that, ninth grade. Our first few years were just seventh and eighth graders. Then, they finally added ninth grade.	9:30
Blair Murphy	So, when were schools—This was in Colombia?	9:46
Lorene Carter Poole	It was in Colombia.	9:50
Blair Murphy	And when were schools integrated, if they were?	9:51
Lorene Carter Poole	They were not integrated at the time.	9:54
Blair Murphy	What year did the process start?	9:57
Lorene Carter Poole	1969?	9:58
Blair Murphy	Wow.	9:58
Lorene Carter Poole	I don't remember.	9:58
Blair Murphy	Sure.	9:58
Lorene Carter Poole	I know in District 2, well, see, I've taught at several—I taught at different schools. I stayed W. A. Perry for six years. Then, I worked at Gadsen Elementary, which was later—I worked in an office for a year. I think I was—whatever, I worked. I didn't go back to teaching right away. So, I worked in an office. I worked for The Palmetto Education Association, it was an all-Black teachers state association. Teachers—An organization for teachers.	10:11
Lorene Carter Poole	Then, I got a job at Gadsen. At that time, it was not District—That school was not in District 1, it was called [indistinct 00:10:52] school, which was District 5 at that time. Finally, it ended up bringing all the schools that were in District 5 into one district, which was District 1. All of those things.	10:43
Lorene Carter Poole	I only worked there for a year because [indistinct 00:11:09] was leaving for—Her husband was going overseas and she was leaving with him. I didn't go back. I stayed—I was sound because I was expecting my child. I said I'm not going back down there because I was too sick to go down there. So I stayed at home here, and then I got a job in District 2, and I worked in School District 2 for 25 years. I was reassigned. I worked hard.	11:02
Lorene Carter Poole	I retired June the 4th, 1989. 31 years. It would have been 33 years, but I was out two years with babies. Because my husband's in school at Ohio State, and when I was expecting, I was expecting to have second child, he came to get us. I worked for the first semester. He came to get us onto Ohio. We lived in marriage couples apartments on campus. So, my daughter [indistinct 00:12:17] was born in the university hospital on Ohio State Campus.	11:40
Lorene Carter Poole	Ohio. Columbus, Ohio. She was born. Columbus, Ohio is where Ohio State is. We stayed there until that summer and then we left and came back to Columbia. What else do I need to say? Some things you want to know?	12:33
Blair Murphy	I guess, maybe, how Colombia has changed?	12:50
Lorene Carter Poole	Oh, Colombia has really changed a lot. When I first moved here, they were building—Started building, where they were putting lots of homes and residential areas. Because I voted in one of the Black residential areas here. I voted with a young lady that, she and her sister, had bought this home in this new area, new home now. She was looking for someone, a teacher or someone to stay with her, so while I was at Claflin in school, I met a lady who had two children and was coming back to school because her and her husband divorced. It so happened, her husband taught, was head of the biology department at State right next door.	12:56
Lorene Carter Poole	I became like a daughter for her. She sort of put me under her wings and became her daughter. She also pledged Delta. We just—She was just like a mother. I called her my play mother. But anyway, she did so much for me. She used to send food to me. I'd call and tell her I was hungry and she would have her brother to bring food over to State—I mean, over to Claflin to me. Because she lived on campus with her brothers at State college, because he was teaching biology over there, he was head of the biology department. For a time. But anyway. I don't know whether he was head of the biology department at that time, because I think Mr. [indistinct 00:14:37] or somebody was. [indistinct 00:14:40] was in the biology department at our school, and I think father was head of science department, over the biology department, over at State. Whatever.	13:55
Lorene Carter Poole	But anyway, I went down. I was the one in school. See, I had finished graduating and everything, so I went down to visit her. They had cleared around State, then they built homes around there. I went to visit her, and I met Rose Albert, which was visiting from Columbia in around—She informed me that—I was telling her I was going to be teaching in Columbia that year. That was going to be my first job. She said, "Well, I know someone who wants a teacher to vote for." I said, "Really?" I said, "Great." So, she gave me the name and address along with the contact, and that's how I ended up finding a place to stay.	14:26
Lorene Carter Poole	But I just want to say that that was a new development at that time, and then they started building all over Columbia. Columbia's really build up, because—I'm trying to think of some areas now that would—Well, this area right here. The houses that are—Like, little homes up that way. Do you see them?	15:39
Blair Murphy	Mm-hmm.	16:02
Lorene Carter Poole	This was a quiet neighborhood, but not this side. This side, Lane Construction Company had built homes. That's where we got our first home from. On Lorick Avenue, down at that lower end. But all of this, really, has always been—All this side of Lorick Avenue, you see it, has always been Black. Okay? The little homes on the right side, now even the two big homes that you see right there, they were not there.	16:02
Lorene Carter Poole	That was a White neighborhood. That's why you see that church. Not this one. If you look up that driveway, you'll see a big church, because this used to be a White neighborhood over on this side. But when the highway came through, 277 came this side, the Whites new ahead of time to start moving out, and Black people bought the homes, started buying the homes. They're saying that they let them know. They were prepared to move out of the neighborhood. That's why it ended up turning all—	16:31
Lorene Carter Poole	Well, what really started it, there was a White officer or somebody that lived in one of the houses, and he and his friend, Black friend, they were friends. He sold his house to him, and you know how they do, when one moved—When you'd move in, they'd start moving out. So, it started like that at first. But really, I think someone informed us that they knew about it. The highway was coming through, so they just sold up their homes to Black people. Each one leaving because they wanted to leave anyway. They didn't want to stay because Black was in the neighborhood. I know the house where—That was the first house, that White officer or soldier gave—sold his home to his Black friend. Right up on Lorick Avenue.	17:04
Lorene Carter Poole	So, everything on the right-hand side, that was White neighborhood. Everything on this side, all the homes—This used to be a swampy area. We used to visit the house on the corner, hickory house on the corner, there was an elderly lady, we used to call her Mother [indistinct 00:18:12], we'd get our children and come by and see her on Sundays a lot of times. There were three houses—No. Used to [indistinct 00:18:21] by the church in a little house where that house was built now. Then, there are two houses, the three houses on that street, now four houses, all this was swampy area. That's why you see all these trees. They left the trees in the yards, that was a few years ago.	17:54
Lorene Carter Poole	But that's why you see we are surrounded by trees, because it was a swamp. I used ride [indistinct 00:18:48]. I used to live right across over there. Our first home was right over there. We'd ride by and see this swampy area, just nothing but woods, nothing but woods. Except when we'd get to the strong house, all of this was just swamp. Nothing but trees, just swampy area.	18:44
Lorene Carter Poole	So, we finally contracted, bought all of this land up and sold the lots to us. And what happened, we had wanted to stay where we were, over where we used to live, and we wanted to add on. The land next to us was available. It had a house on it, and was supposed to live in the house, but they had brothers that were away. Their mother passed. They promised to let us have that land so we could stay there and add on because we had a narrow lot. We were going to—already had made plans, everything. From another street and all. The realtor said he didn't want his mother's land broken up in pieces.	19:05
Lorene Carter Poole	One of my friends came by, in a new car. She got a new car to take me for a ride. The same girl I told you that I voted with my first year of teaching. Both of us were single, all of us were married—But anyway, she drove. She got me a ride, so she brought me over to this neighborhood. But I already knew a lot of people in this neighborhood. I saw the sign, I said, "Look, that house is up for sale." And I never wanted to be too far from the bus stop, neither be too far from our church. Walking distance to the church, walking distance to the bus stop. Because we needed a bus, we didn't always have a car, and we would always be close to the church.	19:58
Lorene Carter Poole	I went back—So, they did. My husband had got up. The next door neighbor there, see, worked with us. We talked together, next door neighbor. We talked over at Perry school, the first school, my first job. He told us that he'd better get down, because he saw the people that were going to bid. Well, we had gotten Jenkins Realty was going to be down there to be there for us, to try to get the house for us, this house for us. Something told my husband, he said, "God spoke to me on that house."	20:45
Lorene Carter Poole	But anyway, he went down and bid at Jenkins. He went one dollar, two dollars over, and the bank was only interested in what was getting owed to them— That's how we got here.	21:17
Lorene Carter Poole	But this was nothing. I called it the wilderness. They built those apartments, that was a residence over there, too, those apartments over there were public housing. All that was woods, too. Except across the railroad track, that was all White neighborhood, but where those apartments [indistinct 00:22:02] trees.	21:36
Lorene Carter Poole	Then, you have Meadow Lake. You have any number of beautiful areas, full of Afro-Americans, that they build since then.	22:08
Blair Murphy	So people still largely live in Black and White neighborhoods?	22:17
Lorene Carter Poole	I would say most—I would say that most Blacks still live in certain areas, Blacks. But so many—You see, now, since then, where my nephew lived before, well, his wife and two children still live there. That was a multiculture neighborhood. It was built that way. Whites were moving in and Blacks were moving in. That neighborhood. Like, in certain areas and now. My daughter, when she and her husband, they lived in a neighborhood where—Well, Black and White, they knew it, that it was going to be integrated. They moved into the neighborhood. It didn't matter that much with them.	22:24
Lorene Carter Poole	Therefore, there are some built now. My nephew lived in that same neighborhood. What's the name? Mango? I don't know what it is, the big construction—but anyway, there are some neighborhoods like that where White and Black move into it. They don't move out of it because they knew that before then. Because that's where my nephews live, White and Black building in that neighborhood. They knew that Blacks lived there, and Blacks knew that they lived there. They knew that it was going to be a multiculture neighborhood.	23:10
Lorene Carter Poole	Harbison is like that, too. That was an experience, but I'm not sure I know enough about that to explain that. But Harbison was an area that, if you ever go out there, they knew that that was going to be a multiculture neighborhood. Afro-Americans, as well as Caucasians. So, we've really grown.	23:48
Lorene Carter Poole	I don't think there's now there—A Caucasian or European-descended, or whatever they're called, neighborhood in Colombia that's not integrated, that's not been one Black neighborhood since—	24:19
Lorene Carter Poole	Spring Valley. I have a co-worker and a friend that lives in Spring Valley, and there are several people I knew that were Afro-American live in Spring Valley. The Caucasians did not move out. They stayed there. They didn't move because I knew someone, a White friend there, who was an art teacher, who had my retirement party there, all about teaching, she had it in their home. They don't move out, they just [indistinct 00:25:12] and so they stay. But mostly, people who move out a lot of times are these small—People who own these smaller homes because they've got all kinds of hangups about Afro-Americans. A lot of us have accepted it, and—they're there.	24:35
Lorene Carter Poole	So, that's one big change since I've been here, soon will be 39 years, August 24th. Came here in '56. The shopping centers, oh, they are just, they've grown out of sight. As a matter of fact, we've got too many.	25:33
Lorene Carter Poole	Did the phone ring?	25:40

Item Info

Title:

Lorene Poole interview recording, 1995 June 13

Date:

June 13, 1995

Creator:

Poole, Lorene Carter

Contributor:

Houston, Charles

Description:

Name: Lorene Carter Poole; Date of birth: 1932-06-25; Place of birth: Graniteville, SC; Occupation(s): domestic; educator; school teacher; Residence: Columbia, SC
Informant ID: 1226; Interviewed by: Blair Murphy and Keisha Turner.

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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Interview number: 1065
18691cf0-9e3a-44da-9689-05bf0c3817dc
behindtheveil
btvct09083
ark:/87924/r40z75b8s
bb178799-c241-4904-8fcc-f276ccb673a4

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Lorene Poole interview recording, 1995 June 13

Transcript

Item Info

1. Lorene Carter Poole administrative file, 1994

2. Lorene Carter Poole interview recording, 1994 July 27

3. Lorene Poole administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Lorene Poole interview recording, 1995 June 13

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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