Hattie Bijou interview recording, 1994 August 11

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Shirley Bijou Walker	I don't know.	0:00
Felix Armfield	Today is August the 11th, 1994. I'm Felix Armfield, the interviewer, and I'm about to interview Mrs. Hattie Bijou at her home here on Pershing Street in New Iberia. Mrs. Bijou, would you state your full name just for the record please?	0:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Hattie, should I put my middle name there?	0:27
Felix Armfield	If you want to.	0:27
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I'm Hattie Bell Trainor Bijou. I was a Trainor before I was a Bijou.	0:28
Felix Armfield	Trainor? And that's spelled T-R-A-I-N-E-R?	0:34
Hattie Trainor Bijou	O-R.	0:35
Felix Armfield	Trainor.	0:35
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I always put O, but you can do E, though, but I always used O.	0:39
Felix Armfield	Okay, now where were you born? How long have you lived here in New Iberia?	0:40
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, Lord. I just rather say all my whole life because I—	0:48
Felix Armfield	All your life. Were you born and raised here?	0:56
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I was born in, I think it was Petit Anse, actually I was born.	0:56
Felix Armfield	Oh, you were born in Petit Anse.	0:56
Hattie Trainor Bijou	In Petit Anse, but I wasn't really Petit Anse. You know, I stayed there a while, but I visit and I come here to New Iberia. I've been here ever since.	1:01
Felix Armfield	Now, when were you born? What's your birthday?	1:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	August the 8th, 1908. That's right.	1:02
Felix Armfield	Ain't that something? That's right. You were having a birthday the day that I met you.	1:14
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That's right.	1:23
Felix Armfield	You know, I think there's something to be said about those of us who are August babies. I think we're just the salt of the earth because I certainly think you're wonderful.	1:23
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I'm wonderful til you step on the wrong foot.	1:24
Felix Armfield	Well, that goes for all of us.	1:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And I'm telling you, you talk about some H, they get it when they come the wrong way with Hattie.	1:24
Felix Armfield	I know that's right. And you know what? I was looking at some of those pictures of you as a young woman in there. You look like you were the feisty one indeed.	1:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, I was all right long as they let me alone. But honey, when you stirred me up, you talk about hell!	3:10
Felix Armfield	I can imagine.	3:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	They have hell on their hands. (laughs)	3:10
Felix Armfield	See, I knew she would talk for me. (Bijou laughs)	3:10
Felix Armfield	That's what I wanted to see, somebody who doesn't mind talking.	3:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	If you think I'm lying, ask her daddy, my husband. He can tell you all the hell I was with then.	3:11
Shirley Bijou Walker	Let him ask a question.	3:11
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I'm a let him ask a question. (laughs)	3:11
Felix Armfield	Go ahead, let her talk. She doing fine. I want to hear all of it.	3:11
Felix Armfield	No, Mrs. Bijou, what do you recall about your parents as a young child? What did your father do for a living? What did your mother do?	3:11
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, my father was a tailor, he made clothes.	3:11
Felix Armfield	Oh, I don't think I've interviewed anyone yet—	3:11
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And he made men's suits and everything. Women's clothes and all, because he made a lot of them for me, my father.	3:11
Felix Armfield	Really? And was the family living here in New Iberia?	3:11
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Alec Trainor? Yeah, there was Trainors, all the Trainors was down here.	3:11
Felix Armfield	Now, did he have a shop or he worked out of his house?	3:11
Hattie Trainor Bijou	He had a tailor shop. He used to make clothes, men's clothes and all of that stuff. Alec Trainor.	3:11
Felix Armfield	Really?	3:11
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, he was a first class tailor.	3:11
Felix Armfield	Now, was this like a family business or just his-	3:11
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, he stayed there over 15 years and then he moved on up to Texas up there and stayed. That's where he opened his other tailor shop at then. I think that's how he made it in Texas.	3:11
Felix Armfield	Oh, okay. Now, what do you recall your mother doing for a living?	3:23
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, my mother, she used to work out sometimes. Most of the time, she would be at home, you know, but a lot of times—And then she didn't do much going out working, though. You know, Atlanta didn't go out to work.	3:23
Shirley Bijou Walker	Domestic worker.	3:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	She really, that's what I said—	3:36
Shirley Bijou Walker	She was in the office, you know.	3:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	—mm-hmm, stuff like that.	3:36
Felix Armfield	So she did basic—	3:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, uh huh, but she didn't do it too, too out. Mm-hmm, no.	3:36
Felix Armfield	Oh. And now this other voice that we're hearing from today, just for the transcriber today, is Mrs. Bijou's daughter, Shirley. Shirley, what's your last name?	3:44
Shirley Bijou Walker	Walker.	3:59
Felix Armfield	Shirley Walker. Shirley's a friend that I had met through [indistinct 00:04:03] in Flint, Michigan, and this is Mrs. Bijou's daughter and she's here visiting. So she's going to be sitting throughout the taping, so that the the transcribers will know whom this third voice is. And Ms. Shirley's going to help me get through this, as a matter of fact.	4:00
Felix Armfield	How many children were in the family, Ms. Bijou?	4:14
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You mean, in—	4:14
Felix Armfield	In your mother and father's?	4:14
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh Lord. How many were there?	4:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	Just with your mom, you were the one.	4:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, yeah. I thought he meant the family. The whole big family. Mm-hmm.	4:41
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm, just you and your mother and father.	4:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes.	4:41
Felix Armfield	Oh, okay. So you were an only child?	4:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	4:41
Felix Armfield	How spoiled were you? You want to tell me about that?	4:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Say what?	4:42
Felix Armfield	How spoiled were you as an only child?	4:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Not too bad. I could tell you one thing, after I grew up and everything and then had one, I could tell you who was the rotten one.	4:43
Felix Armfield	Who was that?	4:55
Hattie Trainor Bijou	It's sitting right there in that chair.	4:55
Felix Armfield	Ms. Shirley? I can imagine.	4:55
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, that's her! And then when I'd go get the switch, my mama want to kill me.	5:05
Felix Armfield	I know. It sounds like one of those times anyway.	5:06
Hattie Trainor Bijou	[indistinct 00:05:12] Lord, don't take—	5:50
Felix Armfield	Well, look. How much education did you receive? Did you go to school here in New Iberia?	5:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I went to school here, and I remember I didn't—At that time, I didn't go no higher than the 9th grade because I think that's all they would teach us there. No, I went to the 9th grade.	5:50
Felix Armfield	Oh, you did a major time then if you went to the 9th grade?	5:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I went to the 9th grade, yes.	5:50
Felix Armfield	And where did you go to school?	5:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	What's that? The Douglas Institute there. The Howard, and it had been Howard. I went to Howard and Douglas too, yeah.	5:50
Felix Armfield	You're one of those people, huh?	5:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, yeah.	5:50
Felix Armfield	You went to Howard?	5:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	5:50
Felix Armfield	Now, what was school like at Howard?	5:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	It was all right. It was nice. The people was nice and everything, the teachers and all. I didn't have any problems, but just one thing about it. I was a sickly child and I'd get sick sometimes and have to stay out a couple of days, you know. Stuff like that, but it didn't mean nothing because I caught up when I went back again. So, everything worked along.	5:52
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm, and what are your thoughts of your teachers there, at Howard?	6:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, I thought they was mighty nice. You know, nicer the ones I had to go under. And they'd be having us all Black teachers, mm-hmm.	6:10
Shirley Bijou Walker	It was more like, people was raised and like, the slang say now, a child should need the village to raise. They need the village to raise one child. Well, that's the way—	6:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	6:12
Felix Armfield	To raise one child.	6:12
Shirley Bijou Walker	One child, so therefore that's the way it was during those times.	6:12
Felix Armfield	And pretty much that Howard Institute was somewhat of a center for you all in the Black community.	6:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, exactly.	6:37
Shirley Bijou Walker	Well, that was the only place the little kids—	6:37
Felix Armfield	Now what was Howard Institute? Was it K through nine? How many grades were at Howard Institute?	6:38
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, at Howard Institute, you could go up to wasn't it the 9th grade or the 12th grade?	6:53
Shirley Bijou Walker	Mom, I don't know. I wasn't here for that.	6:53
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You wasn't at Howard?	6:53
Shirley Bijou Walker	It was like, it was nine. Because some of those people came out of Howard and would even start teaching right on from there.	6:53
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, and they got me to the 9th grade and I think—	6:53
Shirley Bijou Walker	But it was like, I think mama went up to about 8th grade or something.	6:53
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, I went to the 9th grade.	6:53
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm, now you all are saying Howard Institute, but I have always been told that it was Howe Institute?	7:16
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Howe.	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	By what? Howe?	7:17
Felix Armfield	Howe.	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	Howe, H-O-W-E?	7:17
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	That's probably what it was. I might be saying the wrong thing.	7:17
Felix Armfield	Yeah, I think it was Howe. Where was it located, Mrs. Bijou?	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	Right there on the corner—	7:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Right on the corner where Courthouse is.	7:17
Felix Armfield	Where the courthouse is? Yes, okay. It's Howe. And who was the principal there at Howe Institute?	7:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That JB Henderson, I think it was. Mm-hmm.	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	The old man?	7:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, not-	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	Not JB's dad. It had to be the father.	7:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Professor Henderson?	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah. Hi, boy! [indistinct 00:07:53]	7:17
Speaker 4	All right.	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	That's the other son. That's—	7:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Hey, sugar. How you doing?	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	—the girl that was standing in here? That's her son. That's my nephew.	7:17
Felix Armfield	Oh, okay. That's a big kid.	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah, yeah.	7:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	[indistinct 00:08:05]	7:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	He's right there in the room. Nobody's there, everybody's missing.	7:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah.	7:17
Felix Armfield	You were telling me that you received about an 8th grade institution from Howe Institute, and what did you do after high school?	7:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I didn't do nothing.	7:17
Felix Armfield	I mean, after you got through with school? What kind of work were you doing? Did you start to work right away?	8:25
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, I was a domestic.	8:31
Felix Armfield	Is that pretty much what you did most of your life? Is domestic kind of work?	8:32
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, yeah. Not necessarily, but—	8:35
Shirley Bijou Walker	Not necessarily until we went to California during the war, and my dad—	8:35
Felix Armfield	Okay, because Mr. Bijou did defense kind of work and you went with him.	8:40
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Uh huh, I worked in—	8:44
Shirley Bijou Walker	Mm-hmm, and she worked in the factory.	8:44
Felix Armfield	Our in California.	8:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Alameda, California. I worked in San Francisco a little while, too.	8:51
Felix Armfield	Now when was it that you went to California?	8:55
Shirley Bijou Walker	That was in the '40s.	9:00
Hattie Trainor Bijou	In the '40s.	9:00
Felix Armfield	So it was during the war?	9:00
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah.	9:01
Felix Armfield	So, some time between '41 and '45?	9:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	9:01
Felix Armfield	But then you still returned back to New Iberia.	9:04
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That's right, been here ever since.	9:06
Felix Armfield	Okay. What was it like here during the Depression years?	9:06
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, the time I was here, honey, it was all right in here. You know, I didn't have any problems or nothing, you know. They say like the song says, sometimes the White folks would want to have their say so, but they'd run up on the wrong people. Sometimes we couldn't have it all. Other than that, it was nice.	9:12
Felix Armfield	Did you ever have any run ins or any incidents?	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No.	9:12
Felix Armfield	They didn't give you no problems?	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No problem at all.	9:12
Felix Armfield	None whatsoever?	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Hmm-mm, none whatsoever. I just made it through like that and I'm still here. Hanging in there.	9:12
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm, what did you do when you came back to New Iberia in the mid to late '40s? Had your daughter been born then, Shirley?	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah.	9:12
Shirley Bijou Walker	Oh yeah, I was born. Yeah, I was past graduated out of high school in '48.	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	9:12
Felix Armfield	Okay, so you remember the family going to California.	9:12
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah. I was living with my grandmother.	9:12
Felix Armfield	Oh, you didn't go to California. You stayed here.	9:12
Shirley Bijou Walker	No, yeah.	9:12
Felix Armfield	With your grandmother? Oh, okay. Okay. And you pretty much, you left your daughter with your mother?	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, yes. Because there wasn't much work or nothing going on, so the work he was doing, you could do better up in California than you could do here, you know? My husband.	9:12
Shirley Bijou Walker	The time was hard.	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	9:12
Felix Armfield	And Mr. Bijou was doing?	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Carpentry work. Yeah.	9:12
Felix Armfield	And he'd have a better chance of getting more work if he went out to California.	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, mm-hmm.	9:12
Shirley Bijou Walker	[indistinct 00:10:16]	9:12
Felix Armfield	Yeah, I can imagine.	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You see, he worked a lot in San Francisco and in Oakland, and all [indistinct 00:10:16]. That's like, Sophie that been—Sophie that talk like they're Syrian, you know? You don't remember Ms. Sophie and Syrian was here. And Sophia says, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yes it i yes it is." I used to laugh at Sophie.	9:12
Felix Armfield	Now, who was this Ms. Sophia?	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	The Syrians.	9:12
Felix Armfield	Oh, okay.	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, that was Syrian folks. They worked with them White folks for so long, the White Sophie was out there talking like the Syrians. (Armfield laughs) Sophie was like that.	9:12
Felix Armfield	She was working for the Syrians?	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, and she talked just like them. Mm-hmm.	9:12
Felix Armfield	And she had been working with them for so long—	9:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	"Yes it is yes it is" And that's the way she would say. "Sophie, hello, yes it is yes it is?"	10:16
Hattie Trainor Bijou	"Yes it is yes it is." Lord, I used to laugh—	10:16
Felix Armfield	I imagine that kind of stuff didn't happen—	10:16
Hattie Trainor Bijou	—at Ms. Sophie. And she never say, "Yeah."	12:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	"Yes it is yes it is." I say, "Oh my God." That was the good old days when they can say what they want about her.	12:01
Felix Armfield	Apologies. Let me get this started. Were your parents, did you ever know French?	12:02
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, I can't say nothing in French, only in Creole.	12:02
Felix Armfield	Did you speak any of the Creole?	12:03
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Let me see, one or two words I used to use.	12:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	What I used to say in French I call that? Let me see. "Sit la" means to sit down. "Bien merci, bien merci." How you feeling? You know, good evening. How you feeling? That's all I can—	12:18
Shirley Bijou Walker	"Bonjour Madam."	12:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, mm-hmm. What?	12:29
Shirley Bijou Walker	"Comment allez-vous?"	12:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, I couldn't say it. I mean, I did it, but I mess it up so bad trying to say it.	12:40
Felix Armfield	What Creole you did pick up, did you pick that up from your parents?	12:45
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, from my grandmother and grandfather, and all the people. You know, like my mother and father—	12:48
Felix Armfield	They speak all that Creole, huh?	12:52
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, Lord. That's all they would say. Angry, just broke up, broke up.	12:52
Felix Armfield	Just broke up, broke up.	12:52
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah, come see, come [foreign language 00:12:54]. You know, stuff like that.	12:52
Felix Armfield	Now, what did they mean when they said, "Come see, come [foreign language 00:12:54]"?	12:52
Hattie Trainor Bijou	How you feeling? [foreign language 00:12:54], that's, "How you feeling?" Then they say, [foreign language 00:12:54]. "All right, how you?"	12:52
Felix Armfield	You know, I thought you had a bad memory. I do that with some things.	12:52
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That's all I know, too.	12:52
Shirley Bijou Walker	[foreign language 00:12:54], 1, 2, 3.	12:54
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Lord have mercy.	12:54
Shirley Bijou Walker	I can go on with some of it. My English is so messed up with all that mixed mess.	13:39
Felix Armfield	Uh huh. Growing up as a child, you didn't know who to sound like, huh?	13:39
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I didn't know too much of it myself because they didn't speak nothing but all that Creole and French stuff, and I didn't be knowing what they were saying.	13:42
Felix Armfield	What were conditions like here in New Iberia during that period of what we call the "Jim Crow South"? The days of segregation, before integration. What was New Iberia like? What kind of the things did you have to endure as a Black woman?	13:54
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I didn't have to do it, but I know some of the other, you had to do what the White folks would say you do, or else it would be a mess of something you had—	14:04
Felix Armfield	What kinds of things would they do?	14:14
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well I mean, if they wanted to do it this way, the White man would want them to do it the other way or something. You know, but I never didn't understand too much of that, but I know I didn't go through all that kind of mess of stuff because I—	14:15
Shirley Bijou Walker	You want me to tell you? They just accepted. It was just like an acceptance. They knew they'd go to a train station and had to sit in the Colored waiting room.	14:28
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, oh yeah.	14:38
Shirley Bijou Walker	They knew they wanted a drink in the public bathroom, they had to go to the Colored bathroom and drink some water.	14:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I've heard of that.	14:42
Shirley Bijou Walker	And they accepted that. That was nothing but an acceptance.	14:47
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That, I know that.	14:50
Shirley Bijou Walker	It was just the way of life.	14:52
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm. That's right. I know that.	14:54
Shirley Bijou Walker	And you could play with a little White girl or little White boy, whatever, and that little White girl and White boy get a certain age, you have to turn around and say Miss or Missus. And that was one reason why my parents would never let me play with any White children at all. I was very lonely person and we lived around White people. And I could not play with the little White girl next door. I didn't know why, which we would play by the fence when no one was looking, but I didn't know that when that little girl grew up to be a certain age, I would have to say Miss Ruby. And my mama resented that.	15:00
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, I sure did.	15:42
Shirley Bijou Walker	So therefore—	15:42
Felix Armfield	And why did you resent that so much?	15:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Because she didn't have no business.	15:42
Shirley Bijou Walker	Well, I would assume because we were the same age and we grew up together, and she just didn't want to subject me to that type of embarrassment.	15:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	15:42
Felix Armfield	Did you in fact, refer to White people as Miss or Mister?	15:42
Shirley Bijou Walker	Oh, yes.	15:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, yeah. You had to say that. Because I worked for a White lady and I had to say Miss so-and-so. And therein, I didn't have anything to do with the husband because they always had husbands and I didn't have to come in contact much with them, but they were nice.	15:42
Felix Armfield	You very seldom did you come in contact with—You said you were working for a family. Was that just the way things were done?	15:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, yes, yes.	15:42
Felix Armfield	You referred to the lady of the house as Miss or Missus so-and-so?	15:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, yes. That's right and that's—	15:42
Felix Armfield	But you very seldom made any contact with the husband.	15:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That's right.	15:42
Felix Armfield	But when you did run into him, how did you greet him?	15:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, I would say Mister to the man, but so if the wife was wanting him, you know, I'd say—If his name was, you know, White people names anyway. I can't-	15:42
Shirley Bijou Walker	Bower, Mr. Bower.	15:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mr. Bower. I would say Mrs. Bower and Mr. Bower. You see? That's how it is, supposed to act with her. And got along just like that, we getting along with you or we didn't have any problems at all. Not any.	15:42
Felix Armfield	But you better not have said to them, "You can call me Felix. You don't have to call me Mister or Miss"? I said it—	16:57
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I can call you Mister, she'll call you Mister.	17:00
Felix Armfield	Why should you call me Mister?	17:06
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, because—	17:08
Felix Armfield	I haven't paid any reverence to you.	17:09
Hattie Trainor Bijou	There's nothing, but you can be Mister—	17:10
Shirley Bijou Walker	But you know what something I noticed, and I'm going to interject here.	17:14
Felix Armfield	Please do.	17:15
Shirley Bijou Walker	Right now, just like the nurse that came here today to see her, she called me Ms. Shirley. She's White.	17:18
Hattie Trainor Bijou	She White, sure did.	17:20
Shirley Bijou Walker	Calls me Ms. Shirley, she calls my mom Ms. Bijou.	17:20
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Ms. Bijou. She was a nice person.	17:20
Shirley Bijou Walker	So it's almost like a turnaround situation.	17:33
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Now, was she a person that was younger than you?	17:35
Shirley Bijou Walker	Well, she was yeah, she was like—I think she said she was like, 38, 39 years old.	17:40
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, she was really young.	17:40
Shirley Bijou Walker	But that had no reflection on anyone during those times. They still called you by your first name. Everyone said Hattie. I don't care if it was a little bitty baby, like these kids out here.	17:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	18:01
Shirley Bijou Walker	These kids and mama would take care of those kids. And they would call her Hattie.	18:03
Felix Armfield	They'd walk in and say Hattie. Now, what was the situation when you worked for the Balls? The Balls or Bawlings?	18:05
Shirley Bijou Walker	The Balls.	18:15
Hattie Trainor Bijou	The Balls.	18:15
Felix Armfield	How did Mrs. Balls address you?	18:16
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, Hattie.	18:17
Felix Armfield	And she referred to you as Hattie.	18:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm. And she was, they were nice.	18:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	Her children did, too.	18:25
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, all of them. There was nobody—	18:25
Felix Armfield	And even her children referred to you as Hattie?	18:25
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, I think she had two or three in the home.	18:25
Shirley Bijou Walker	They all. That was an accepted—	18:30
Felix Armfield	And they didn't even say Ms. Hattie?	18:31
Shirley Bijou Walker	No.	18:31
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, no, no. None of them did.	18:31
Felix Armfield	Didn't put a handle on it at all?	18:31
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, the White folks didn't call you Miss.	18:31
Felix Armfield	Children didn't?	18:31
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No! No, they didn't. Just my name, Hattie. They learned what my name is, but then Hattie so-and-so. And when I get ready for them, I would call them by their real name, so-and-so, the children. That just was all children.	18:39
Felix Armfield	Now, you didn't have to address the children as Mister or Miss.	18:51
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, that's what I'm telling you now. All the children, I'd call them by their name, but the man and the wife, it was Missus and Mister. Ms. Ball and Mr. Ball.	18:55
Felix Armfield	But they called you Hattie, the older people. And the children can—	19:00
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But they never called you anything out of your name, did they?	19:00
Felix Armfield	No, no. They just called me Hattie.	19:00
Hattie Trainor Bijou	They would always call you Hattie?	19:01
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	19:01
Shirley Bijou Walker	They called my daddy Prosper or—	19:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Prosper.	19:01
Shirley Bijou Walker	Because his nickname was Big Bijou.	19:01
Felix Armfield	But never Mr. Bijou?	19:03
Shirley Bijou Walker	No.	19:05
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, no, no, no.	19:05
Shirley Bijou Walker	And when I came from southern one year, that was—	19:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	They didn't say Ms and Mister.	19:27
Shirley Bijou Walker	—we were getting ready to sit at the counters and stuff. See, a lot of people don't realize Dr. King did a beautiful job, but some of this work was going on even before Dr. King came on the scene.	19:30
Felix Armfield	Oh, yeah there were people who were doing grass works before there could've been a Martin Luther King.	19:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	Now, we had a Reverend Jameson. He came out of Selma, but he took Dr. Gordon C Taylor's church in Baton Rouge, and Dr. James—I think he's president of the Southern Baptist Convention now, something, but during that time he would have the whole stadium where money was put in tin tubs. Where we were boycotting buses before people even talked about boycotting buses. When we were at Southern, we had to get rides.	19:42
Felix Armfield	Now, when was all this going on?	20:15
Shirley Bijou Walker	This was in the '50s. I graduated in '52, so—	20:24
Felix Armfield	So, in the early '50s.	20:24
Shirley Bijou Walker	—we talking about the early '50s, around '50 or '51. We were in the process of trying to do something in Baton Rouge because every time I had to ride backwards and forward from Baton Rouge on the bus, I had to ride in the back. And we only had about two seats back there.	20:25
Felix Armfield	What kinds of things—Did you support your daughter being that active in this movement then, Ms. Bijou, in the 1950s? Were you afraid for her, and perhaps her life and her safety?	20:44
Shirley Bijou Walker	She didn't know anything about it.	21:00
Felix Armfield	She didn't know that you were doing these kinds of things.	21:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But as a rule, I always been a praying person and talking to the Lord. I come up that way, and when she leave or any of my people, friends or good people did leave, I'm asking God to give them help in going. But I come up that way.	21:03
Shirley Bijou Walker	What we did, we did as a group on the campus. It never did hit the papers, very seldom. What papers would it be in anyway?	21:21
Felix Armfield	Okay, and this is when you were a student at Southern University?	21:23
Shirley Bijou Walker	Right, right. And Dr. Jameson was really the leading force at that time. And I said that to say something else, but I've forgotten. When I said how we were, it was an acceptance during that time with mom because—Oh, I know what I wanted. I came home and the telephone rang. And by daddy doing a lot of carpentry work, the phone rang, I'd say, "Hello?" And he said, "Is Big Bijou there?" I said, "Who?" He said, "Big Bijou." I said, "No one's named Big Bijou here." I said, "There's a Mr. Bijou."	21:28
Shirley Bijou Walker	And my daddy grabbed the phone and he started going, "Hello," listening, blah, blah, blah. So when he got off the phone he told me, he said, "Don't you ever do that anymore." And I said, "Why?" He said, "Because Big Bijou pays your college bill." He said, "You rock the boat and you don't have the college boat anymore." Well, I couldn't say—	22:14
Felix Armfield	It was a high price to pay.	22:44
Shirley Bijou Walker	It was a high price to pay, but this is what was, like I was saying, an acceptance. And I go back into history that Black people probably was ostracized in many ways. They were humiliated in many ways. But also, Black people didn't bother about that some, I would assume, because they got their way anyway. In fact, some of those cooks they had in the kitchen, I wouldn't want to eat what they cook because you didn't know what went on in the kitchen before it got on that table. Okay?	22:44
Shirley Bijou Walker	Some of those housecleaning jobs they did, they did what they wanted to. And it was also a little smart thing about Blacks; we were able to, how Blacks used to during slavery, communicate by singing a song? They were able to communicate by doing whatever they thought that was not right to their counterparts or their friends, they were able to do something without even, I'll use "their master" knowing. And they were getting back in so many ways they didn't even know. They got back. It might not have been what you or what we would've done, but it was a satisfaction thing. They were consoled by being able to retaliate in their own little way. They just didn't accept, they didn't say, "Well, this is it." You know.	23:19
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm, y'all got family here and so the Bijous were a much larger family than you. Okay—	24:16
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, yeah. The Bijous.	24:22
Felix Armfield	Now, tell me something. I spoke with your husband, Mr. Bijou, in his interview about that 1943 incident where they run those doctors out of town.	24:26
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Now, he knew something maybe about it, but I couldn't never get that thing together. But it was rough here when he was doing that.	24:34
Felix Armfield	What was it you couldn't ever get from it?	24:38
Hattie Trainor Bijou	One thing probably, he doesn't have much to talk about. You know, you ask him something and he'll answer you.	24:38
Felix Armfield	He told me a interesting story about it.	24:38
Hattie Trainor Bijou	[indistinct 00:24:52] Well, you see he know what you do. You don't understand, but he'll answer all that, but I never did even worry too much about asking him nothing because all I just said, "Long as they treat me decent enough to get along and make a living", I was satisfied.	24:55
Felix Armfield	You weren't ever concerned?	25:06
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, no.	25:07
Felix Armfield	With what happened after that incident?	25:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Prayed and talked a lot. One thing about it, I used to worry the Lord. I still worry now. I say, I punch my hand and I say, "You know everything, Father." I say, "Just take care of Hattie. Take care," and He did just that.	25:07
Felix Armfield	So at least you did have some concern if you was doing all this prayer?	25:22
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, and I still pray too. I still talk to the Lord.	25:27
Felix Armfield	What were you concerned about?	25:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	My health when I was little, coming up.	25:29
Felix Armfield	No, no. When we was talking about that 1943 incident.	25:33
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, Lord.	25:36
Felix Armfield	When they run those doctors out of town.	25:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I didn't like it, but I couldn't do nothing about it. I just prayed and asked God to take care of them. That's all I did.	25:49
Felix Armfield	Where did you get your healthcare? Where did you go to the doctor after that, if there were no Black doctors in town?	25:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	They didn't have no Black doctors. I went to one, and I used to go to Lafayette, to that charity hospital they had in Lafayette there? It's still there, but I'd go to different doctors over there in Lafayette to the hospital.	25:50
Felix Armfield	Were they Black doctors?	26:03
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, they were White doctors. They didn't have no Black doctors.	26:03
Felix Armfield	So they would treat you in Lafayette?	26:05
Hattie Trainor Bijou	We'd go over there, yeah. They'd get me.	26:06
Felix Armfield	Well, why would you drive to Lafayette? Because would they treat you in New Iberia?	26:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, they didn't have nothing here hardly to do nothing for you, to treat you or nothing.	26:11
Felix Armfield	Okay, so medical care was sparse in New Iberia anyway?	26:16
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, yeah. Oh, yes.	26:19
Shirley Bijou Walker	And it didn't last too long.	26:20
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, it didn't last long at all.	26:21
Shirley Bijou Walker	Because there's the Dr. Chatham.	26:22
Felix Armfield	That was the female doctor that came to town?	26:25
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah.	26:27
Felix Armfield	But I understand she didn't stay too long.	26:27
Shirley Bijou Walker	No.	26:29
Felix Armfield	Because the White males in town weren't pleased with her being here.	26:30
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes.	26:33
Felix Armfield	She was completely out of line, in their opinion.	26:33
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	26:37
Shirley Bijou Walker	Then after she left, was it Dr. Diggs that came on?	26:45
Felix Armfield	From what I hear, Dr. Diggs did come to town.	26:53
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And the Black doctor, Dr. Diggs and Dr. Dorsey.	26:53
Shirley Bijou Walker	So while they're being young, the people you're talking to now was younger in age, where a physician wasn't necessary.	26:53
Felix Armfield	Well, what was the family doing anyway for healthcare? What did people in your community do when they got sick?	27:00
Shirley Bijou Walker	They went to the charity hospital.	27:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You went to the charity hospital in Lafayette. That's what I was telling you.	27:09
Felix Armfield	But did everybody go to that?	27:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, yeah.	27:10
Shirley Bijou Walker	Well, now we don't know.	27:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	We don't know, but I know when it would be my time to go, the place would be full. You know? Yeah.	27:16
Shirley Bijou Walker	I don't know what people did, what some of them did.	27:21
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, she don't know, but yeah, I had to go in there and sometimes I'd be sitting up there and they'd have, look like 20 ahead of me, you know? They had your name down there.	27:24
Shirley Bijou Walker	But I'm sure the doctors here served some of the Black people. They didn't boycott Blacks for—	27:31
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No.	27:32
Shirley Bijou Walker	I don't think so. I haven't heard anything like that and I know I was operated on for tonsillitis in Alfordville. The one operated on my tonsils, but now that was not in the '50s however. That was—Well, that was '48. I was teaching school then. Yeah, that was in the '50s, but it was like, '52, '52. Around '54.	27:38
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	28:05
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But we never did have no hard time. I know I didn't.	28:12
Felix Armfield	Never did have hard times?	28:13
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, no.	28:15
Shirley Bijou Walker	Well, you had an economical hard time, mama.	28:16
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I mean that, yeah like that.	28:18
Shirley Bijou Walker	I mean, people weren't rich.	28:18
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, indeed. I worked too. I worked every dang thing that I could work. Oh, Lord.	28:21
Felix Armfield	Doing domestic kind of work?	28:26
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, yes.	28:27
Felix Armfield	Did you only do the Balls' house?	28:29
Shirley Bijou Walker	Oh, no. She had many of them.	28:32
Felix Armfield	Oh, so you worked for many families.	28:34
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, it was many of them yeah, that I did.	28:36
Felix Armfield	Did any of them ever mistreat you as far as you were concerned?	28:38
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Never, never. I'd lie if I say they did. Not a one.	28:41
Felix Armfield	Not one. Well, I think that may have had something to do with your personality.	28:43
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Maybe so.	28:50
Felix Armfield	You knew how to handle yourself.	28:51
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, Lord. Don't start my mouth.	28:54
Felix Armfield	We want to hear. How would you handle yourself in the presence of these White people?	28:56
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I handled them just like I handle anybody else. Make me angry, talking about bologna, but if they were nice, I'm nice. But if they get nasty, Hattie nasty. If I died in that next minute, I didn't care. Hell no, no. And I'm still like that.	29:02
Felix Armfield	Now, did you have to ever straighten any of them out, per say, when you were working for these White women in their house?	29:18
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, I had to straighten the one out. The only one, but it wasn't bad. The work I was doing, she wanted me to do that and some more extra, you know? Everything, and I told her no. Not unless I was getting paid for it. You see? Now I—	29:22
Felix Armfield	Ooh, well aren't you little courageous.	29:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, I would tell them.	29:43
Felix Armfield	And how did she respond to it?	29:43
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And she didn't say a word. That woman just said, "All right, Hattie." And I stayed there til—	29:45
Felix Armfield	I get the impression, Mrs. Bijou, that they didn't mess with Hattie.	29:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, one thing about it, I'm good as gold and I trust the Lord. I'll give you anything I can to help you if you need it, but don't try to misuse me because you talk about hell! You got hell on your hands.	29:58
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm, what was social life like here in New Iberia back in those old days? Did you go to the theater? Did you walk down the street in peace?	30:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I walked down the street. I didn't go to theaters much because I never did like to go to shows and things, you know? I never did like that, but anywhere I would walk or go, they would respect me just like I respected them. So, they didn't get out of line and I didn't have to get out of line.	30:16
Felix Armfield	You don't recall having to move off the sidewalk?	30:30
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, no indeed. No. If I did, I bet the flesh would've done left my bones.	30:33
Felix Armfield	I'm just wondering if that, more or less, something that they expected Black men to do anyways?	30:39
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well I never, but I got the—	30:43
Shirley Bijou Walker	The only incident that happen was, they used to dress me in riding pants and boots to go to school at the elementary. And on this street, there used to be a big ditch before they widened the street out. And I had to walk to school, which was at IPTS. A White boy pushed me in the big ditch.	30:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And only had a—	31:05
Felix Armfield	He pushed you in the big ditch?	31:05
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah, in the ditch and muddied up my riding pants. I was little, though.	31:06
Hattie Trainor Bijou	She was a little bitty something, but honey, I—	31:13
Shirley Bijou Walker	But mama went after the little White boy.	31:15
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I sure did.	31:19
Felix Armfield	Wait a minute, I want to hear this story.	31:20
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Ran into his house.	31:23
Shirley Bijou Walker	Mama went to the house.	31:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Sure did. Sure did.	31:25
Felix Armfield	What? He had no business messing with your baby?	31:27
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No! And then she had on a White dress, I believe or something.	31:30
Shirley Bijou Walker	I had on riding pants.	31:30
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Or riding pants and boots. And then shoved in that ditch, that ditch must've been that long, deep down this much.	31:33
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah, but get through the—	31:38
Felix Armfield	So a White boy pushed your baby—	31:38
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Her in here, because she was little, you know, going to school.	31:38
Shirley Bijou Walker	I was walking to school by myself.	31:42
Felix Armfield	In the ditch?	31:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	31:42
Felix Armfield	And you were standing back, watching?	31:46
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And then she came, you came back with the dress wet or something?	31:48
Shirley Bijou Walker	I came home crying.	31:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And another little boy—	31:51
Shirley Bijou Walker	And another little boy told my mother that he saw it and came and told mama that the two White boys had pushed me.	31:57
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Honey, I took off. You talk about hell! You see this nigger woman here? I'll die and go to hell in a minute. (Armfield laughs) Oh yes, I will. Right now.	32:01
Felix Armfield	So what happened, Ms. Bijou? Did you find him?	32:08
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And did that man beat them little boys. Yeah, there was two of them. I had to beg him to quit beating his own children.	32:12
Felix Armfield	Really?	32:21
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I sure did.	32:21
Felix Armfield	What did you say when you got to the house?	32:22
Hattie Trainor Bijou	When I got to the house and he asked what's the matter, and she was all wet and everything, and they just looked. They didn't say nothing. He said—At them time, they had them straps but it was like, a belt wide. That man, I had to ask him to quit beating them boys. You get what I'm saying? I got that answer. Oh, yeah.	32:32
Felix Armfield	But you definitely meant that they weren't going to be pushing nobody in no ditch.	32:44
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And let me tell you, old as I am today, don't mess with Hattie.	32:49
Shirley Bijou Walker	See, the problem was, I had to pass a White school to go to a Black school. See? And they were on their way to school—	32:52
Felix Armfield	And you all crossed paths.	33:03
Shirley Bijou Walker	Right.	33:04
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, but that man told them little boys, his own little boys, tore them up.	33:04
Speaker 5	—hospital. They ain't called yet.	33:04
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, yes child. I was just as good as gold, and I'm still good. But just don't mess with me. That's all I ask you to do because you don't want to.	33:04
Felix Armfield	I got something I need to ask you in a minute that I hope you're not disturbed by what I'm going to ask you. And I ask you simply because of all the other stories that we've heard in the area, concerning stuff like this. How did you fare as this darker Black woman, married to a man like Mr. Bijou, who oftentimes people confused as a White man? What kinds of things did you run into, in those days?	33:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I didn't run into nothing because when they'd come to me, Lord have mercy. I'd get through talking about them. See, I can—	34:08
Felix Armfield	It's clear that you handled yourself well.	34:08
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I can't say what I used to say to people, honey. I ain't had no trouble.	34:08
Felix Armfield	But what kinds of things would people say to you, or ask you? And this is your old friend here you're talking to.	34:08
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I know, and I don't mind telling the truth because I don't—	34:08
Shirley Bijou Walker	You know, I never heard anything.	34:08
Felix Armfield	You didn't? That's unreal because he told me some interesting stories.	34:08
Shirley Bijou Walker	Maybe I don't know.	34:08
Felix Armfield	And maybe he didn't want you to know. That was what he didn't want you to know, because he appeared to be moved by some of the things that was said. So you know, he told me in the end of his interview, "I was a warrior in my home. I was proud of my people, I loved being with my people. And wasn't no White woman worth me."	34:08
Felix Armfield	And I thought that was a profound statement that he made, in no uncertain terms. And I wanted to get Mrs. Bijou's perspective—	34:08
Shirley Bijou Walker	Well, I don't know. Maybe she can't remember what happened during that time.	34:08
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	34:08
Shirley Bijou Walker	But I never known any—	34:08
Hattie Trainor Bijou	They never did us nothing, because I used to speak mine little sober mind just working for them and being around them. And then you do that around so many people and know just how far to go.	35:30
Felix Armfield	Yeah, yeah. And what buttons to push and what buttons not to push.	35:31
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	35:31
Shirley Bijou Walker	This was a Peyton Place town. That's very small.	35:31
Felix Armfield	Of course it was.	35:31
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But one thing about it—	35:32
Felix Armfield	I have never seen any place where colorization meant everything.	35:32
Shirley Bijou Walker	It did here, and out from New Iberia, it's called Grand Marais.	35:48
Felix Armfield	Yeah, I've heard some stories about that.	35:48
Shirley Bijou Walker	Paper bag, if you put a paper bag on you.	36:01
Felix Armfield	Paper bag and they had to be the one—They would run their hands through your hair?	36:10
Shirley Bijou Walker	Right, in your hair and you couldn't walk in—	36:10
Felix Armfield	And all those kinds of ridiculous tests like that.	36:10
Shirley Bijou Walker	Mm-hmm, well that has been on TV. That has been on a television that someone made a research on that. Came down here, and they had that, I think like on 60 Minutes.	36:11
Felix Armfield	I hate I missed it. I'm going to try to catch it the next time it comes up, but you never heard any comments or people never said anything to you or asked you anything that you thought was out of the way?	36:23
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, they ain't never did nothing but respected me. They know I kind of, when all I say, I'd die and I'd go to hell before I let anyone misuse me or say things that I didn't like or I'm going to answer you if I got to die dead soon as I get to talking. You see, oh yeah. Honey, and you see, I was a Trainor before I married. I was Hattie Trainor. And all of them say, "Hattie Trainor? Don't mess with her." I said, "You better not."	36:55
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And I used to even going to school, I had to take up for some of the other poor children's mess they would get into. One time I had to fight and knock somebody out to take care of the one that they was misusing, you know? Man, huh-uh. I was respected and I respect people, and I respect everybody. And I want them all to do the same thing—	37:02
Felix Armfield	So, it's clear that you took a stance against all that kind of foolishness.	37:20
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, I had that. And right now, if anything comes up way back, they say, "Who you talking about Hattie Trainor?" Sometimes I had to laugh at myself, then I'd get angry. And the school where I was going to, it was a big high school and didn't know nothing about them. They had plenty of boys and girls, and I mean, they didn't have no lavatory to it. They had them outdoor, the back doors, and then you'd have to go. And when you'd see me coming from upstairs to go down, you'd hear them hollering, "Here come Hattie Trainor! Y'all better get out the way."	37:26
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But I get out the way, the fastest kid. I think about that now and sometimes I say, "Hattie, you were—"	37:57
Felix Armfield	And you all had outdoor toilets?	37:57
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah. Oh, in them days you still going to school, oh, yeah. They didn't have no sanitary toilets, child. No, sir.	38:08
Felix Armfield	Really?	38:11
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Girl, oh, they was dirty toilets.	38:11
Felix Armfield	What the school?	38:16
Hattie Trainor Bijou	The school had that, the public school. Douglas Institute, yes indeed. But that been 99 years, I'd say it been so long.	38:16
Felix Armfield	It ain't been no 99 years.	38:25
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Been a long, long time.	38:25
Felix Armfield	But you know what? I just wondered about that. And you know, it's clear that you and Mr. Bijou loved each other.	38:27
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, we did and then he didn't mistreat me and I didn't mistreat him.	38:35
Felix Armfield	And that you loved him and he loved you, and you've been together all these years. But you know, clearly Mr. Bijou could've passed if he wanted to, you know, but he wasn't interested in that.	38:35
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Nah, nah. Now you see, I couldn't go nowhere, but couldn't pass as nothing but dirt.	38:35
Felix Armfield	Stop it!	38:35
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And I had many troubles.	38:35
Felix Armfield	So what would kind of happen when you two would be out together? Would people stop and look?	38:35
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, anybody that knew us, you know, and speak and they would talk and that. But see, he was a carpenter and everybody, all the White folks knew him. And they would stop and talk to both of us, you know. And talk to him, sometimes I'd finally say, "Come on. Let's go, let's go," you know? Because they'd be talking, but they don't be talking no hateful stuff, you know. Just be talking about being in this and dealing that.	38:35
Hattie Trainor Bijou	So I must say, as this color, we have had a good life. But we don't know yet, how long we going to live and what is going to happen, you understand?	38:35
Felix Armfield	None of us do.	38:35
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But right now, I couldn't complain about nothing. Not nothing. And he wasn't a man that chased women and I wasn't nothing to fool with in men, you know? Not after I met him. Of course when I grew up, I had friends, boyfriends. You know, like—	39:37
Felix Armfield	You were supposed to.	39:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But that's what I'm saying, but after—	39:49
Felix Armfield	But when you got married—	39:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	—it was different.	39:49
Felix Armfield	Of course.	39:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Because I talk to people. I laugh and talk with them, and he does the same thing, but that's the furthest it go, you see? And he had one woman that used to like him. She said she didn't see what he wanted to do with me. Honey, when the other woman come towards me, I went and cursed that woman. I can't tell you the words that I used. I cursed that woman out so bad. And was fixing to beat her right then and there.	39:49
Felix Armfield	This was in your younger days.	39:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh yeah, and I didn't take no for an answer.	39:49
Felix Armfield	Why would she say that? Said she didn't know what he wanted with you?	39:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Because see, he was real light skinned, being younger, and I was the color you see I am right now. So I guess she must said I was too Black for him.	39:49
Felix Armfield	But what did she look like?	39:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh Lord, I don't know.	39:49
Felix Armfield	I mean, was she one of these light skinned people too?	39:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, no. But I'd like to see what she had looked like, but you see here, so I just left that part.	39:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But whenever it made me angry, I would say anything come in my head [indistinct 00:40:53] raised your hand. Because they know if they raised the hand, somebody going to die. And I've been like that from a child going to school. I used to even have to fight for some of the school children in school. So you know I was, I'm hell and I'm hell now. I ain't going to take it back, no. I ain't going to take it hell, as old as me, no. Believe me, man, I cursed him out good and he better not open his mouth.	39:49
Felix Armfield	Who was that? Mr. Bijou?	39:49
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, [indistinct 00:41:20] but even then I said, "Take this God damn fool. You got to have a [indistinct 00:41:26]." I got to pray hard there for the Lord to forgive me for some of them things I've done and said to them people.	41:28
Felix Armfield	Oh, you'll be fine.	41:28
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I hope so.	41:28
Felix Armfield	You'll be fine.	41:28
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I hope so because child, I didn't get—	41:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But one thing they had me on, and I'm still that way, old as I am.	41:42
Felix Armfield	And what's that?	41:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Dead people. (laughs)	41:42
Felix Armfield	What was that about dead people?	41:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You and my good friend, know that they die and they put them in the funeral home, and you know they go to the wake or go over there, or go over here. You think I'm going to look at them people by myself when I get in the funeral home? Now, would you believe that? (laughs)	41:51
Felix Armfield	You're still damn fearful.	41:57
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Honey, when you're dead, you're done. (Armfield laughs)	41:58
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And if 10 people say, "Hattie. As brave as you are and all that, you raised your daughter." I said, "I ain't going to like them dead people facing me in that casket, in front of the town." You know, I don't do that now and I'm old as Methuselah.	41:58
Felix Armfield	But you don't fool around with dead people?	42:20
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, no.	42:21
Felix Armfield	You don't go to funerals?	42:21
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, I go to funerals. Oh yeah, see the church be packed. (Armfield)	42:23
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I go to funerals, all right. But Hattie don't bother with dead people. That's the onliest thing I fear til today, and I'll fear that, I guess, the rest of my life. Dead people.	42:28
Felix Armfield	Really?	42:39
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And then when I was little like that, my grandmother would take me, you know, in them old everliving, green things out there. They would break two leaves and they would cross it like a cross, and you had to go pin that on the dead person, but they didn't have them in the casket. They had them on the cooling board, they call that. Lord, poor—	42:39
Felix Armfield	And this was how Black people would do it, when they got ready for funerals?	43:00
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, and my grandmother would tease me. And my poor little hands would just be going like that. (Armfield laughs)	43:03
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You talk about hell, but I caught hell when I was a little bitty something scared of dead folks. And they scared of the live. And then they all would say, "Hattie, the dead can't hurt you." And I say, "Yeah, but they can make you hurt yourself so bad." (Armfield laughs)	43:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I step proper. Though I know when you're dead, you can't hurt me, but honey I can hurt you. Oh, no, no." When you dead, I'm done. And I'll go the last mile of the way through living. A living person can have a gun to shoot you, a knife to cut your throat, anything kill you.	43:20
Felix Armfield	But you weren't afraid of all these weapons, huh, you would go on top of them.	43:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I'm telling you, it's them dead ones that I was—And right now, I don't like to go look at no wake and a dead person's stretched out there for me to go to there to the casket. Now, when the family been sitting right, you know, on the benches and seats there, and there's the casket, well they all right there, you see? I'm brave. See, I'll walk in here and I'll go look in the casket. They going to be all sitting right across like this. Other than that, huh-uh. No, no, no.	43:42
Felix Armfield	But you wouldn't go in there if no one was in there with you?	44:09
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, no. Nobody, huh-uh.	44:14
Felix Armfield	And you're not afraid when you come back home at night and stuff, are you?	44:15
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, you see I don't never be by myself. I didn't even go look at my poor mama by myself. Now you know that's sad, ain't it. You know that's sad. You know that's sad.	44:18
Felix Armfield	Shirley, she was just telling me about her fear of dead people.	44:27
Shirley Bijou Walker	See, that's something she's afraid of.	44:29
Felix Armfield	That's what she says.	44:32
Hattie Trainor Bijou	She know that.	44:32
Shirley Bijou Walker	So anytime she get after me, I just try to find a deceased person. (Armfield laughs)	44:35
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh.	44:36
Felix Armfield	She said, "When you dead, I'm through with you."	44:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, it has been and you know that's crazy. That people don't have good sense, I say.	44:48
Felix Armfield	That's a fear you got, it's a fear.	44:54
Felix Armfield	You know, I used to be afraid of dead people too, but after I reached adulthood and close family members began to pass away, I sort of began to think, "Well, Lord. There's no need for me to be afraid of this."	44:54
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Honey, I've had my mother, my grandmother, my grandfather, my father. All of my family people be dying. How you think I'm going to look in at that casket, or get on that cooling board ready, got them by myself? No.	45:09
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	45:25
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I say, now if Prosper die before me, I don't know what I'm going to do about him. I guess his family going to have to come with me just to look at him. (Armfield laughs)	45:26
Felix Armfield	All of them will have to come, huh?	45:34
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Somebody.	45:34
Felix Armfield	Isn't that something? Now, how do you all carry out funerals here?	45:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, I go to funerals, you know, at the church when they say it, but I belong to Mount Calvary, there on Beech Street and Barry Norbert is the pastor there. I'll go there and when they say due the body, then the whole church will stand and he marches around. Well, I'm right behind them like that, but I'm brave like that, you see? (Armfield laughs) That's the hook. They say, "Hattie, I done seen crazy people, but I ain't never seen nothing like you." I say, "I guess not." (laughs) I don't know.	45:42
Felix Armfield	So what is your fear of? That they're going to get up or something?	46:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I don't know how I feel. I feel I'm scared of them, and that's the only thing I fear dead people. Now, you know that. Oh, that doesn't make sense.	46:14
Felix Armfield	I know some people who are afraid.	46:18
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, and been like that from a child. That's what I'm trying—But I used to blame my grandmother because she—	46:26
Felix Armfield	Well, do you all still those things on them?	46:30
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah.	46:32
Felix Armfield	The crosses that you—	46:32
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, they still pin them on them, but now like now, if they do it now, the way they sit I can afford it. But before honey, you die lonesome, you just lonesome because Hattie ain't going near that. No, sirree. I'm sorry. And I been as old as I am now, that's all right if I was young. You could say—	46:37

Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh. Oh.	0:05
Felix Armfield	[indistinct 00:00:05] He going to go one way and I'm going to go the other.	0:05
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yessiree. They tell you life is great if you just don't weaken, and that's the God's truth. That's the true, true, true. Because I just can't take it. But right now.	0:13
Shirley Bijou Walker	Mamma, tell me about—Oh, this is before. [indistinct 00:00:31]	0:21
Shirley Bijou Walker	But tell him times when you used to tell us about your grandmother and grandfather, and how he was a preacher and you lived in the country. And when the Night Riders would come. You ever heard about the Night Riders?	0:21
Felix Armfield	Oh, tell me about the Night Riders, Miss Hattie.	0:21
Hattie Trainor Bijou	They be on the road on them horses. And they would be going. And all you could hear just clip, clop, clip, clop, them coming.	0:21
Shirley Bijou Walker	And say, tell them about grandfather, what he had to do.	0:21
Hattie Trainor Bijou	He had to get on the side and get on the road. You had to get off, let them pass, and let them go on. And if you say anything, they had a rawhide whip like that, right there like that. And that'll teach you. And they'll beat you up if you don't move.	1:06
Shirley Bijou Walker	And what did he have to say?	1:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Pop would say so many things.	1:24
Shirley Bijou Walker	[indistinct 00:01:25] bonjour.	1:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Bonjour, yeah. They had to say that to them.	1:24
Shirley Bijou Walker	"Bonjour, master. Bonjour master."	1:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You had to speak. And then he'd get home, his poor neck, my grandmother, "Ah, I beg you," say "Give me a wet rag." Poor Mom, she had to Pop's neck because the horses was, you see, horses on this side, horses on this side, and they were in the middle. And they, "Bonjour, bonjour, bonjour." And they'd go a mile with that bonjour thing, saying that. Oh, Lord.	1:31
Felix Armfield	So when the Night Riders would come at night.	1:54
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah. And they was on horses, and if they didn't say bonjour, they had rawhide whips and, wow, they'd catch them like that. But child, it was bad in them days. Lord.	1:56
Felix Armfield	Now, would the Night Riders—This is out in the country?	2:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, that was out in Petite Anse.	2:09
Felix Armfield	Where your grandfather was a preacher.	2:09
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah. My poor Pop, he wasn't a sure enough preacher, but he'd preach anyhow [indistinct 00:02:12]. (laughs)	2:12
Shirley Bijou Walker	[indistinct 00:02:12]	2:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Poor Pop. And I miss them two old people yet. I still think about my grandmother.	2:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Now, my grandmother, she wasn't afraid of nothing, you see? She something like me. But my grandfather would try to—would talk low and didn't raise his voice, but child, you wouldn't mess with my grandmother. That was Elizabeth Daniels, honey. She'd fight you in hell before she'd let you get—Oh, yeah, honey. Lord have mercy. Elizabeth.	2:26
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And my mamma weren't no better. My mamma named Louisiana. She was a nut.	2:44
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You know, I thought they were going to send my mamma to the pen, because would you believe her sister and husband was fighting up there on this street and Hopkins Street, and somebody came, knocked at her door and said, "Louisiana, get up."Say, "Sophie and Jules having it on the corner and there going to be policemen." [indistinct 00:03:11] She was there with them. [indistinct 00:03:14] my mamma. "I'm the policeman. I'm the boss. You see, I don't give a goddamn who beating on the street." I said, "Lord have mercy."	2:51
Felix Armfield	This White woman—she said that to the White woman?	3:26
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, she did. She sure did. Louisiana Daniels. And you got people telling me today I'm like my mamma. I said "I ain't no Louisiana Daniels." I said, "No." I said, "I don't take nothing from nobody, but I'm not like my mother." And I know that, because I've seen enough and old enough to see what my mother would do. Uh-uh.	3:27
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And better than that, my father, was liking one of little women belonged to her church, somebody must've gone and told her, and she went to the—stopped to the little church down here on this street, went to the church, she ran in the church and grab him out the seat where he was sitting there, going up to the door where they had cement slides, you know when you get to the door, that's it. She just took him like that—"Broah!" And threw them out there on the street on the cement road.	3:54
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Child, my mother, you talk about hell. My mother was [indistinct 00:04:24] and I hope her soul is resting in peace today. But that Louisiana didn't take nothing from nobody.	4:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And she got a daughter she left here, Hattie. I ain't taking nothing either from nobody, but I'm scared of dead people. Now, they can't do me nothing in their casket. And that's the only thing I don't fool with. But if you're living and you're breathing, you got to talk to me good. Yes, sir. And I hope to stay like that till—	4:29
Felix Armfield	Tell me some more about the Night Riders.	4:58
Hattie Trainor Bijou	The Night Riders, they was just, "Bonjour, bonjour." See, they had to pass and you had to speak to—	4:58
Felix Armfield	Would the Night Riders come and terrorize people in their homes and stuff?	4:59
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Not in the home, on the street. See, that was on the dusty roads. And they would be coming, they would have to tell them—	5:03
Felix Armfield	That's if you got caught out in the street.	5:08
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah.	5:08
Felix Armfield	When they were coming through.	5:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Them Night Riders, that was all the time.	5:10
Felix Armfield	Now, when were the Night Riders? What years were those in?	5:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, Lord. I was small them times. I can't hardly remember, but I know I wasn't old.	5:10
Felix Armfield	You were born in 1908.	5:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes.	5:10
Felix Armfield	You're talking about the 1910s and 1920s.	5:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Somewhere up in that area. And that was every night them Night Riders would pass.	5:10
Shirley Bijou Walker	She wasn't 20 years old.	5:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	20 years old, I don't think.	5:10
Shirley Bijou Walker	This was happening when she was a young girl.	5:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah.	5:10
Felix Armfield	Really?	5:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm. And you could hear them. And you had to say bonjour.	5:10
Felix Armfield	And the Night Riders would come every night?	5:31
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And you had to say, "Bonjour. Bonjour."	5:34
Felix Armfield	Did they ever harm anybody?	5:34
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, no.	5:34
Felix Armfield	Did they ever kill anyone?	5:34
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, they just had that rawhide whip, but everybody knew it, so they wouldn't raise no sound, but if you'd say something, they would throw that rawhide just like that at them. You see?	5:48
Shirley Bijou Walker	You have to visualize, what she's talking about is the country.	5:59
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Country. Petite Anse.	5:59
Shirley Bijou Walker	Country road.	5:59
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Country road. Nothing but dust.	5:59
Shirley Bijou Walker	And it's not that many people.	5:59
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No.	5:59
Shirley Bijou Walker	Maybe a house here, baker or something, then another house.	5:59
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	5:59
Shirley Bijou Walker	And these Whiteys knew that there weren't too many Blacks. But if Blacks was in town, they'd come or going home. They would be prepared to aggravate them.	5:59
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm. That was so.	6:17
Felix Armfield	And that was their way of making certain that they also kept enough fear in Black people.	6:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	Right.	6:17
Felix Armfield	[indistinct 00:06:32]	6:17
Shirley Bijou Walker	That was it.	6:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Bonjour. Yeah, bonjour, bonjour. I said, "Lord."	6:17
Felix Armfield	So you had to say bonjour.	6:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, they'd say—	6:37
Shirley Bijou Walker	Bonjour, yeah. [indistinct 00:06:42]	6:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	More than anything, bonjour.	6:37
Shirley Bijou Walker	Whatever.	6:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And poor thing, then you would hit the door, "Oh, I beg you," say, her name was Elizabeth.	6:44
Felix Armfield	Uh-huh.	6:44
Hattie Trainor Bijou	"Get Pop a wet rag there." He would put that on his neck. And that's two old people that I love telling about, my grandmother and grandfather. And then she would be, and I said, "Lord have mercy, Jesus." Called them the Night Riders. And they would stay, and wasn't no pavement, no nothing, just dust, just a dirt road.	8:07
Felix Armfield	Them horses—	8:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Them horses just coming and going. He would come too. I said, "Jesus, Jesus."	8:07
Felix Armfield	So you would have memories—	8:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes, I have been through the mill with them. See, I've been there. She young yet, her. But I've been there, honey. And when you'd see the Night Riders then you'd be coming. And you had better say, "Bonjour," because them rawhide whips they had—	8:07
Shirley Bijou Walker	Then there were different types of Night Riders, but I guess they just named them Night Riders.	8:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Rawhide Night Riders. Yeah.	8:07
Speaker 2	Yeah.	8:07
Shirley Bijou Walker	Some of the Night Riders, like the Ku Klux Klan—	8:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	[indistinct 00:08:07] Shirley, go and answer the telephone.	8:07
Speaker 2	[indistinct 00:08:07]	8:07
Shirley Bijou Walker	That's [indistinct 00:08:07].	8:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	She come and get [indistinct 00:08:07].	8:07
Shirley Bijou Walker	[indistinct 00:08:07] but it'd be hanging. [indistinct 00:08:07]	8:07
Felix Armfield	Were people ever lynched and hung in—When you were a young child, do you recall people being lynched and hung in the neighborhood?	8:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah.	8:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, I don't know about the neighborhood, but I heard them say they had that rope and they would put it around their neck. And I've seen the pictures of it, but I've never been around them. But it was true though. They would put that rope around there and then they'd pull something and just choke them, kill them. And then they'd take them down, they're dead.	8:07
Felix Armfield	Terrible.	8:20
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But child, I'm telling you, that's some hate there, something. And a lot of times I sit down and think about that, and something say, "Hattie, pray." But I done prayed and talked to the Lord, and I talk to him still I talk, because [indistinct 00:08:35] the Lord, [indistinct 00:08:36].	8:26
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But you can say I really do. I really do believe in God, and I know when I leave from here, I tell them all, I say, "If y'all ever get a paper and see Hattie T. Bijou passed, say she going home. She with her Lord." Because I don't mistreat nobody. I don't talk about nobody. But now, if you do me something, you got hell on your hands. Understand?	8:33
Felix Armfield	[indistinct 00:08:59]	8:56
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And I got to pray hard to forgive. Child, I'll give you my last nickel if you come to me and say you need certain, certain thing. But you're going to misuse me, because you in trouble, then I don't mind getting back in. I don't give back. I don't give back. I don't treat [indistinct 00:09:19].	9:11
Felix Armfield	[indistinct 00:09:19] Can I get ready to do the paperwork so I won't have to keep you too long?	9:31
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You can stay all day doing your work, child. We ain't doing nothing. It's like the man said—	9:32
Felix Armfield	I'm going to get ready and go over some stuff with you though.	9:32
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Okay.	9:32
Felix Armfield	So that I won't have to keep you too long. This way I can [indistinct 00:09:38] just about an hour, which is [indistinct 00:09:38].	9:32
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, shucks. Just ask your questions and I'll answer them the best in my understanding.	9:38
Felix Armfield	OK. Your last name's spelled B-I-J-O-U?	9:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Right.	9:45
Felix Armfield	Bijou. And your first name is Hattie, right?	9:46
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Hattie.	9:48
Felix Armfield	H-A-T-T—	9:48
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I-E.	9:48
Felix Armfield	I-E. Hattie. Middle name is T.	9:53
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Is T, because that T was Trainor. You see, I was a Trainor before I married.	9:55
Felix Armfield	And it's spelled T-R-A-I-N-O?	9:57
Hattie Trainor Bijou	O-R. Either one you put.	10:02
Felix Armfield	O-R.	10:06
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You put O-R. That's what I use.	10:06
Felix Armfield	T-R-A-I-N-O-R.	10:06
Hattie Trainor Bijou	O-R. That's right. That's right.	10:06
Felix Armfield	Okay. And what's the address here?	10:06
Hattie Trainor Bijou	318 W. Pershing.	10:09
Felix Armfield	Pershing Street?	10:22
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	10:25
Felix Armfield	New Iberia.	10:25
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	10:29
Felix Armfield	Louisiana.	10:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That's right.	10:29
Felix Armfield	70560.	10:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm. That's it.	10:30
Felix Armfield	And where were you born, Miss Hattie?	10:35
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I was born in Petite Anse.	10:36
Felix Armfield	Petite Anse. How do you spell that?	10:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Huh?	10:36
Felix Armfield	How do you spell Petite Anse?	10:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	It's just as [indistinct 00:10:46] well, actually, on the telephone. Shirley, got the telephone? It's P-E-T-something.	10:46
Felix Armfield	Okay. Is that Iberia Parish?	10:50
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I guess it is. You leave here, you get to Petite Anse before you get to Abbeville. I know. But I know that's where I was born, in Petite Anse.	10:59
Felix Armfield	Okay. [indistinct 00:11:04]	11:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	It's P-E-T-something. Now, she on there. I could get her off the—	11:01
Felix Armfield	[indistinct 00:11:10]	11:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	You do that. Because you see, my memories is bad. I can remember some—	11:01
Felix Armfield	You remembered a lot of stuff.	11:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I remember some things. Some things I don't remember. I get angry at my own self, say, "Hattie, you been knowing so-and-so and so-and-so, now you don't know nothing." But I say I can't help it. I say, "Y'all know my mind." And say, "Yeah, but [indistinct 00:11:30] raise hell [indistinct 00:11:32]." I said, "No, I sure don't have to raise hell." I sure do that.	11:16
Felix Armfield	Okay. What's the phone number here in this cottage?	11:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	36—You know I remember my telephone. 369-969—Let me get my—Let me see the telephone book. I'll take off my mic.	11:17
Felix Armfield	It is good.	11:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	69-7900. You got that?	11:17
Felix Armfield	369—	11:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	369-3900. [indistinct 00:12:23]	11:17
Felix Armfield	How you [indistinct 00:12:24]. Forgetting what?	11:17
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Everything.	11:17
Felix Armfield	You don't have to call yourself. You don't have to remember your telephone number. You're not going to call yourself, are you?	12:28
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No. You got to call me, but I want to be sure to give you the right number, because I could go in there and look at it and come in there and tell you the wrong thing right on, child.	12:36
Felix Armfield	Hattie Trainor.	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Bijou. And I just was Hattie T. Bijou, but you put what you want.	12:37
Felix Armfield	And your date of birth.	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	August the 8th, 1908. That's the year I was born, 1908, August the 8th.	12:37
Felix Armfield	And you're married. Okay. The husband's first name is Prosper.	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Prosper Bijou. At least sometimes he puts Prosper, because he's Prosper Albert Bijou, but he puts sometimes Prosper Bijou.	12:37
Felix Armfield	Prosper Bijou.	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Prosper Albert Bijou.	12:37
Felix Armfield	And what's Mr. Bijou's birthday?	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	His birthday was just the other day. I think that was June the 11th. I think that was Prosper's birthday.	12:37
Felix Armfield	I can get his off of the information that you gave me. What year was he born?	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	1900—	12:37
Felix Armfield	[indistinct 00:13:36] older than you?	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, yes, years older than me.	12:37
Felix Armfield	He was?	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Eight years, I think it is, yeah.	12:37
Felix Armfield	Okay. I'll check.	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, he in the bathroom. [indistinct 00:13:44]	12:37
Felix Armfield	I can get it. Because [indistinct 00:13:45] got the paperwork on it. Now, what was your mother's first name?	12:37
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Louisiana Daniels.	13:51
Felix Armfield	Louisiana.	13:54
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Louisiana Daniels.	13:55
Felix Armfield	Daniels Bijou, right?	13:58
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, she was a Trainor.	14:00
Felix Armfield	Daniels Trainor.	14:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm. She's Louisiana Trainor.	14:01
Felix Armfield	And her maiden name was Daniels, right?	14:05
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm.	14:07
Felix Armfield	So you remember your mother's birth date?	14:10
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I know [indistinct 00:14:14] November the—No, that's Shirley's, November the 24th.	14:13
Felix Armfield	What year?	14:18
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, I was thinking about the 24th, I said, but I think that's Shirley, November the 24th, but I got to ask Shirley.	14:21
Felix Armfield	We'll check with her when she gets off the phone.	14:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, because I'm going to ask Shirley.	14:24
Felix Armfield	When did your mother die?	14:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	When did she die?	14:24
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	14:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Lord, Little Addy been dead—I call her Little Addy. I never did call her mom. Little Addy been dead a long, long, long, long time. But we got to wait for Shirley to fix that up.	14:41
Felix Armfield	Where was your mother born?	14:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	When was she born?	14:45
Felix Armfield	Where?	14:47
Hattie Trainor Bijou	She must've been born in Petite Anse, where they all come from, the family. There was Petite Anse, Louisiana.	14:47
Felix Armfield	What did your mother do for a living?	14:53
Hattie Trainor Bijou	[indistinct 00:14:56]	14:53
Felix Armfield	She was a housewife.	14:53
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, she was a housewife, and then she took in—Sometimes they had fast womens in them days, they would have nice silk clothes and things, she would take that. They'd bring it to her to wash them and things like that.	15:00
Felix Armfield	What was your daddy's first name?	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Elliot Trainor.	15:01
Felix Armfield	Who?	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	My daddy's name was Elliott, Elliott, Elliott Trainor. But he and my mother had separated, that's how she got to be that Daniels, because she was a Daniels [indistinct 00:15:30] family. My family was a Daniels. My mother's family. [indistinct 00:15:35] Daniels and Elizabeth Daniels that was her mother and father.	15:01
Felix Armfield	Now, your father was a tailor, right?	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh yeah, he was a tailor. He made men's suits. A lot of us wore dresses from him.	15:01
Felix Armfield	How many brothers and sisters did you have?	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I had no brothers and sisters. I had a step-sister, I know, from some woman he had, they had a child from my father. But as for me, I didn't have no—	15:01
Felix Armfield	You were an only child.	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, just surely my only child, yeah, to Prosper, you know.	15:01
Felix Armfield	And you have one child yourself.	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm. I have one child.	15:01
Felix Armfield	And what's her full name? Shirley.	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Shirley Bijou Walker.	15:01
Felix Armfield	Bijou.	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That's her husband's name is Walker, Charlie Walker.	15:01
Felix Armfield	What's her birth date?	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Now, you know I know that. That's the 24th of September. Better let me ask that to Shirley.	15:01
Felix Armfield	Wait a minute, you're hooked—	15:01
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, I'm hooked up there.	16:25
Felix Armfield	Okay. We can ask her. She'll be back.	16:26
Hattie Trainor Bijou	She'll be back.	16:28
Felix Armfield	How many grandchildren do you have?	16:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Grandchildren?	16:30
Felix Armfield	How many children does Shirley have?	16:33
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Shirley has one, Mark Robinson, in Detroit, and she don't have no more that I know of.	16:35
Felix Armfield	So you got one grandchild.	16:45
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That's all I know of.	16:47
Felix Armfield	Okay.	16:48
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Might have step-grandchildren that I don't count them, you know, like that.	16:49
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	17:03
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But I don't have no more. Because my mind [indistinct 00:17:05].	17:04
Felix Armfield	Now, you've lived here in New Iberia all your life. You haven't lived anywhere else?	17:07
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Nowhere. You know I lived in Petite Anse. Then my grandmother and grandfather moved from Petite Anse, we moved here to New Iberia, but I stayed in Petite Anse a long time.	17:08
Felix Armfield	Okay. Now, you went to Howard Institute was the last place you went?	17:13
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, Douglass Institute. And I went to Douglass first and then I left there and went to Howard just a little while, but not too long. Then J.B. Henderson after that.	17:16
Felix Armfield	And you completed 8th grade?	17:23
Hattie Trainor Bijou	9th grade.	17:23
Felix Armfield	You completed 9th grade.	17:23
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm. And then taught the 3rd grade after all of that.	17:32
Felix Armfield	You taught the 3rd grade?	17:33
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Taught the 3rd grade, yeah.	17:33
Felix Armfield	So you was a teacher at one point?	17:33
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, I was a sub teacher. But I did all of the 3rd grade.	17:33
Felix Armfield	After you finished the 9th grade.	17:33
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, yeah, after I finished.	17:33
Felix Armfield	You started substitute teaching.	17:33
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, see, whenever the teacher would get sick, Professor Simon and all them would call for me to go take over. So that was the 3rd grade. And worked there [indistinct 00:17:57] taught the 3rd. Now, [indistinct 00:17:59] know that [indistinct 00:18:01] that was her name, [indistinct 00:18:03] she was, but she died, the man died, they all did. And I didn't stay there too long.	17:40
Felix Armfield	How did you like substitute teaching?	18:09
Hattie Trainor Bijou	It was all right, but I used to get tired. But it didn't last too long. Oh, Lord. Mm-mm, Mm-mm, Mm-mm, Mm-mm, Mm-mm. But other than that, it was good. And you had children used to come home for me to get their lesson, and then I'd have to work with that [indistinct 00:18:32].	18:15
Felix Armfield	Who was your last employer when you did domestic work? Who was the last person you worked for?	18:33
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That was—Who was that woman? They were White people though. When I did housecleaning.	18:57
Felix Armfield	Yeah. Was it the Balls?	18:57
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Bowen, yeah. It sure was Balls, I believe. Mr. and Mrs. Balls. I worked in Balls.	18:57
Felix Armfield	[indistinct 00:18:58]	18:57
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That been so long. Lord have mercy.	18:57
Felix Armfield	That was the last family you worked for?	18:57
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That's the one, yes. Only one I do, other than washing and ironing. Not ironing, just washing them silk clothes for them women, fast women used to have them mens at night, you know?	19:04
Felix Armfield	Oh, really?	19:05
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But I didn't have to go nowhere to do that. They wore silk clothes. And that's the people that I made good money off of, them fast women with them—That was White people, you know, with those men.	19:09
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	19:14
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, Lord, you couldn't hardly find [indistinct 00:19:21] in them women's houses.	19:14
Felix Armfield	Really?	19:14
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, Lord.	19:14
Felix Armfield	Now, what was this, like the red light district or something?	19:14
Hattie Trainor Bijou	There wasn't no district at all, I don't call it, because they ain't done nothing about it. They let all them [indistinct 00:19:33]. Pershing Street used to be the real fast—we called them fast womens, White womens and White men. Wasn't Colored, they were White. And they didn't wear nothing but fine silk over there. They didn't wear clothes or no material like that. They wore silk clothes.	19:30
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm. Why did they wear so much silk?	19:44
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, you see, they used to go have dates so much with the mens that they just had something that you could just rinse out, but they would all just call me to come get their silk gowns and pajamas and stuff. And I just rinsed that out and put that on the clothesline, take it down. [indistinct 00:20:09] They was all living right in our neighborhood. Didn't have to go nowhere hardly to do.	19:55
Felix Armfield	Right here on Pershing Street?	20:14
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Pershing Street wasn't nothing but fast White women. Ooh, Lord. This was a bad street. Now it's a good street.	20:14
Felix Armfield	When was that?	20:14
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Lord, that been, say like so few years, to years, to years, that been like. That been a long time. That been a long time. I can't really see—	20:27
Felix Armfield	I mean, you're talking about like the '20s, the '30s?	20:28
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, yeah, yeah. It must've been later than that. Oh, Lord. Maybe—	20:28
Felix Armfield	'50s, '60s?	20:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	This was a long—I tell you who would remember, my husband in that bathroom.	20:51
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	20:52
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And maybe and Shirley probably might remember. But this street here was nothing but for fast women, White women.	20:52
Felix Armfield	Pershing Street.	20:52
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Pershing Street.	20:52
Felix Armfield	Have you ever received any awards or honors that you'd like to mention at this time? Or nothing in particular?	21:04
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No. I'm trying to think what did I do during the war. Something I did one time, been a good while back.	21:12
Felix Armfield	Okay.	21:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But I can't—	21:12
Felix Armfield	Are you Baptist?	21:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yes.	21:12
Felix Armfield	Okay.	21:12
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I'm Baptist. And I'm [indistinct 00:21:22] the Baptist Church. Larry Norbert right now is the pastor. Reverend [indistinct 00:21:27] Bolly, Reverend Livingstone. Reverend Livingstone died early. He was an old man. And then Reverend Bolly took it over, then he died.	21:21
Felix Armfield	Oh, really?	21:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Now Larry Norbert got it, but he's still there.	21:37
Felix Armfield	Do you belong to any organizations here locally, Miss Hattie?	21:45
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, no, I don't belong to nothing no more. No more than church. Mount Calvary Church [indistinct 00:21:53]. No more than Mount Calvary Church. And I haven't been there for years, because I've been sick. The doctor wouldn't let me go nowhere [indistinct 00:22:02]. Can't go nowhere now. I had a very bad heart condition and high blood pressure. [indistinct 00:22:07] like that. And it worries me too sometimes. Now most of the time I got to call him up, or either go to the doctor and all stuff like that stuff.	21:47
Felix Armfield	What do you like to do in your leisure time? What's your hobby these days?	22:19
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Not much of nothing no more than maybe something if needs sewing. I quit that because I had my machine, I used to sew. I used to sew for hours when I was younger. But I don't do much of nothing but read and sit on that porch and get on the telephone and talk all day.	22:26
Felix Armfield	Reading.	22:38
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm, reading. I [indistinct 00:22:42].	22:38
Felix Armfield	Sitting on the porch.	22:38
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Mm-hmm. And very, very seldom—I don't sew no more. I used to sew for hours, but I cut that out [indistinct 00:23:05] snag something or [indistinct 00:23:05].	22:46
Felix Armfield	Talking on the phone.	23:04
Hattie Trainor Bijou	That's the main thing, talking on the phone. That's right.	23:04
Felix Armfield	Who do you talk to, your girlfriends that you have in town?	23:04
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, girlfriends, long distance calls, and anything else. But the ones here in town, I ain't calling them, they calling me, see? So it's six one of them, half a dozen of the other.	23:04
Felix Armfield	So would you sign this for me, Miss Hattie? Just to say—I'll hold that for you. That we can use your tape for our work at Duke University. This is basically saying that it's okay for us to use your tape. We're going to put it in the archives there at Duke University.	23:13
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Now, I sign where? Here?	23:28
Felix Armfield	Right here.	23:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Oh, right here.	23:29
Felix Armfield	Right over there.	23:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Just put Hattie Bijou. That's all?	23:29
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	23:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Let me see.	23:29
Felix Armfield	Look at that handwriting.	23:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Huh? What you mean?	23:29
Felix Armfield	Beautiful.	23:38
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Eh, sure. Hattie Bijou, eh?	23:42
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm. That's it.	23:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	[indistinct 00:23:52] put that [indistinct 00:23:53].	23:42
Felix Armfield	That's okay.	23:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I tell y'all, y'all think I'm lying, but I'm—	23:42
Felix Armfield	Miss Bijou, what are you talking about?	23:42
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But I'm telling the truth. I said, "Lord, they're going to send me to find you yet if I stay here much longer." That's the truth. I mean well, but Lord have mercy. Men forget so quick.	24:04
Felix Armfield	And this is 318, right?	24:05
Hattie Trainor Bijou	318 West Pershing. Yes, yes, yes.	24:05
Felix Armfield	Well, is there anything you want to say in closing, Miss Bijou? Any closing comments you have?	24:24
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Like what?	24:29
Felix Armfield	Tell me. Anything you wish to say in closing.	24:30
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Well, I know one thing, I just enjoy everything here. Enjoy having you coming here to take all that patience and time with me. I enjoy that. And I appreciate that.	24:36
Felix Armfield	Well, I enjoyed being here with you, listening to your stories.	24:36
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But other than that, everything else is cut and dry. And I enjoyed everything. I really enjoyed this conversation and all of you. And hope to see you many, many, many, many, many more times to come. Hope you'll still be coming by.	24:55
Felix Armfield	I'd love to come back. When I come back to Louisiana I'm going to make certain that I see the Bijous.	25:05
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Yeah, that's right, be sure and come here. And if I die, you'll see in the paper somewhere, or somebody—	25:13
Felix Armfield	You ain't going to die.	25:19
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Or somebody in the neighborhood will tell you. You come ring the doorbell, they say, "Oh, Hattie Bijou's gone on." Of course we'll be going one day, but nobody—	25:19
Felix Armfield	But you ain't going nowhere anytime soon.	25:19
Hattie Trainor Bijou	No, nobody doesn't get—	25:19
Felix Armfield	You ain't going nowhere.	25:31
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I hope not. That will be seen, but if I got to go, you got to go.	25:36
Felix Armfield	Okay.	25:39
Hattie Trainor Bijou	When the Lord say, "Let's go," you—	25:39
Shirley Bijou Walker	[indistinct 00:25:43]	25:39
Felix Armfield	Oh.	25:39
Hattie Trainor Bijou	If you want Shirley, something, I can just get off.	26:05
Shirley Bijou Walker	I was getting ready to come out of college, so it must've been [indistinct 00:26:06]. I'm very [indistinct 00:26:06] so if it was not '51, it was '50. I think it was '51.	26:05
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Maybe your daddy might know.	26:05
Felix Armfield	She was born in 1888. And she died in '51, you say?	26:05
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah.	26:05
Felix Armfield	Okay. Do you happen to know her place? She was Petite Anse also?	26:15
Shirley Bijou Walker	My grandmother?	26:19
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	26:20
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah.	26:20
Felix Armfield	I'll get that spelling tonight. Now, your grandfather, her—Was it Elliott Trainor?	26:22
Shirley Bijou Walker	[indistinct 00:26:29]	26:28
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Elliott.	26:28
Shirley Bijou Walker	That's her father, Elliott Trainor, yeah.	26:29
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Uh-huh.	26:29
Felix Armfield	Okay. What was [indistinct 00:26:34] birthday? You know when he died?	26:32
Shirley Bijou Walker	I know when he died, but I don't know how old he was.	26:33
Felix Armfield	Well, give me the year he died.	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	I don't know the year. I'll try to think. He came from Detroit to see us, because my husband was so sorry he didn't have a camera [indistinct 00:26:55], because that'd been both generations of us. It was my grandfather, my mom, me, and my son. [indistinct 00:27:08] and he wanted to take a picture.	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	But now, okay, Louisiana, where we are, in 20 years. That would've been 1973, '72 or '73. No, I'm not going to even speculate.	26:41
Felix Armfield	You don't know. Okay, that's fine.	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	But I would assume it was in the '70s when he died. It was the late '70s.	26:41
Felix Armfield	Okay. Do you happen to know where he was born? Was he from Petite Anse also?	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	No, I don't know.	26:41
Felix Armfield	Was your father from Petite Anse?	26:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	My father, Elliott Trainor? He was Petite Anse and New Iberia, one of them two.	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	[indistinct 00:27:56] I have no idea.	26:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	I don't know where Elliott—	26:41
Felix Armfield	We can say he was definitely from Louisiana.	26:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	Elliott Trainor.	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	But you see what happened, I didn't know him too well.	26:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	The Trainors lived here.	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	When I grew up, he was in Texas.	26:41
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	26:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	But I think it—	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	The family separated.	26:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	And I think the Trainors was from Petite Anse, if I'm not mistaken, but I don't know.	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	He set up his business as a tailor.	26:41
Hattie Trainor Bijou	In Houston, Texas. He sure did. He was a good tailor too. Boy, he could make them suits [indistinct 00:28:25] dresses [indistinct 00:28:27].	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	[indistinct 00:28:29] maybe a line or two will be able to help you.	26:41
Felix Armfield	Oh, definitely.	26:41
Shirley Bijou Walker	But like I tell you, Mom wasn't involved too much in the situation, but she [indistinct 00:28:43].	26:41
Felix Armfield	Doesn't have to be involved. You were involved just by being Black.	28:45
Shirley Bijou Walker	You got that right.	28:48
Felix Armfield	Just by being Black you were involved.	28:48
Shirley Bijou Walker	But like I said-	28:49
Felix Armfield	I don't know what you mean when you say she wasn't involved.	28:52
Shirley Bijou Walker	No, what I meant was they were so satisfied.	28:53
Felix Armfield	Well, [indistinct 00:28:59] lots of people I've interviewed were fine.	28:58
Shirley Bijou Walker	[indistinct 00:28:59] There was an acceptance, part of a trend where certain things, you can accept them.	28:58
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	28:58
Shirley Bijou Walker	And certain things—Like I could not accept—	28:58
Felix Armfield	Well, you've been exposed to things that they haven't been.	28:58
Shirley Bijou Walker	Right.	28:58
Felix Armfield	You saw that there was more to the world than New Iberia.	28:58
Shirley Bijou Walker	Right. So therefore, I guess that was one of my reasons for leaving. I could not deal with it.	28:58
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	28:58
Shirley Bijou Walker	Yeah. I wanted more out of life at that time. I guess I was experiencing trying to find—well, which I did find, but I could've been more [indistinct 00:29:47]. It was just not enough. Like to visit. But just didn't have enough to offer for me.	28:58
Felix Armfield	Mm-hmm.	28:58
Shirley Bijou Walker	All my dreams were get the heck out of this place. And when the time came, I did.	28:58
Felix Armfield	Yeah. Okay. I thank you all so much for your time spent. Hope I haven't taken too much of it.	30:08
Shirley Bijou Walker	No, you haven't.	30:11
Felix Armfield	Thank you so much.	30:11

Item Info

Title:

Hattie Bijou interview recording, 1994 August 11

Date:

August 11, 1994

Creator:

Contributor:

Armfield, Felix

Description:

Name: Hattie Trainor Bijou; Date of birth: 1908-08-08; Place of birth: Petit Ance, LA; Occupation(s): domestic; Residence: New Iberia, LA
Informant ID: 607; Interviewed by: Felix Armfield.

Occupation:

Domestic worker

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

See below

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-1064
28edda75-b4ec-487e-a289-16e158d935fb
behindtheveil
bdeeb125-6c85-4cb0-9f3b-873de338f80b
ark:/87924/r4rn3bh3w
bdeeb125-6c85-4cb0-9f3b-873de338f80b

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4rn3bh3w

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Hattie Bijou interview recording, 1994 August 11

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1. Hattie Bijou administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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