Annie Benton interview recording, 1995 July 18
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
| [Blair Murphy] Your birth and your place of birth. | 0:01 | |
| [Annie Benton] Annie M Benton. | 0:03 | |
| - | And when? | 0:11 |
| - | November 19th, 1924. | 0:13 |
| In Norfolk, Virginia. | 0:21 | |
| - | And what was it like here in Norfolk | 0:24 |
| when you were a little girl? | 0:27 | |
| - | Well I, being born in, in the twenties, | 0:30 |
| I really, I don't remember too much, you know, about that. | 0:35 | |
| But, even in the thirties, | 0:39 | |
| we were a family that | 0:44 | |
| grandparent, one grandparent- | 0:52 | |
| 'cause my grandfather had passed- | 0:54 | |
| was living with us and she had young, | 0:57 | |
| young children, young boy and a young girl at that time. | 1:00 | |
| So we were all living in a place together, | 1:05 | |
| apartment, and close knit families. | 1:10 | |
| And all the parents worked | 1:13 | |
| and they did menial work, you know, labor. | 1:16 | |
| My mother did housework. | 1:22 | |
| My grandmother did housework | 1:25 | |
| and my father worked | 1:28 | |
| on the salvage yard. | 1:32 | |
| We called it junk yard at that time. | 1:36 | |
| He was a welder. | 1:39 | |
| So it left really pretty much the children home. | 1:43 | |
| Of course we went to school, but mostly, | 1:48 | |
| we took care of the house. | 1:52 | |
| - | How many brothers and sisters did you have? | 1:55 |
| - | I had one sister. | 1:56 |
| I had two sisters, but the oldest one died | 1:59 | |
| when she was six. | 2:03 | |
| So I don't remember her. | 2:04 | |
| - | Okay. | |
| - | But I do have one sister. | 2:08 |
| - | What part of Norfolk did you live in? | 2:11 |
| - | Lived in Huntersville. | 2:13 |
| - | Okay. | 2:15 |
| I haven't heard of that area. | 2:19 | |
| Where is it? | 2:21 | |
| - | Let's see, it runs into Tidewater Drive. | 2:23 |
| Well, going east, I think, | 2:29 | |
| from where you, which is the way you came, I think. | 2:32 | |
| - | Okay, and that was mostly Black community? | 2:37 |
| - | Yes, all Black community. | 2:40 |
| Except there was a couple of stores | 2:43 | |
| that was run by Jews | 2:49 | |
| and they lived in the apartments above the store, right. | 2:53 | |
| But basically it was a Black community. | 3:00 | |
| It was a Black community. | 3:04 | |
| - | So did you live in a, like a house | 3:12 |
| or did you live in an apartment? | 3:14 | |
| - | No, we lived in an apartment. | 3:15 |
| It was a two bedroom apartment | 3:23 | |
| on our first apartment that we lived in. | 3:28 | |
| I remembered our bath was outdoors, | 3:33 | |
| but then we finally moved from there | 3:42 | |
| to a house that had a bath. | 3:45 | |
| - | Do you remember how old you were when you moved? | 3:51 |
| - | I think maybe around, | 3:55 |
| probably around eight or nine. | 3:59 | |
| - | Do you know how, where your father learned to do welding? | 4:03 |
| - | No, I really don't, | 4:07 |
| I really don't. | 4:12 | |
| I know he was in, in the service, | 4:13 | |
| but all I remember hearing him speak of about the service | 4:15 | |
| was that he was a cook in the service. | 4:20 | |
| - | So was he, did he enlist or did he, was he drafted? | 4:25 |
| - | He was drafted during World War I. | 4:31 |
| - | So did he go overseas? | 4:37 |
| - | No, he didn't get to go overseas. | 4:38 |
| - | And were your parents born in this area as well? | 4:44 |
| - | No, my father was born in a little place | 4:46 |
| on the other side of Emporia, Virginia | 4:50 | |
| called Pleasant Shade, Virginia. | 4:53 | |
| Most, a lot of people never heard of Pleasant Shade, | 4:59 | |
| but they have heard of Emporia. | 5:02 | |
| And my mother was born in Hickory, Virginia, | 5:07 | |
| which is near Chesapeake. | 5:11 | |
| - | So it's just, in the area. | 5:15 |
| - | Yeah, uh-huh. | |
| And they met in Norfolk, 'cause when he left | 5:21 | |
| Emp- Pleasant Shade, | 5:27 | |
| he went into the service and he settled in this area. | 5:29 | |
| - | So what was the name of your first school? | 5:35 |
| - | My first school? John T. West. | 5:38 |
| - | And how far was that from here? Where is it? | 5:45 |
| - | When I went to started in John T. West, | 5:48 |
| I was living on, | 5:51 | |
| I guess maybe a couple of blocks away from school. | 5:55 | |
| - | So you walked to school? | 6:00 |
| - | Yes. | 6:01 |
| - | How big was your school? | 6:03 |
| - | It was a two story school | 6:06 |
| and it went to the sixth grade. | 6:10 | |
| - | So did each grade have its own teacher? | 6:15 |
| - | Yes. | 6:18 |
| And they also had the little, | 6:20 | |
| had some couple of rooms on the outside | 6:24 | |
| of the larger school for the some lower grades. | 6:27 | |
| And after attending John T. West, | 6:35 | |
| I went to the junior high school, | 6:38 | |
| which was Booker T, Booker T. Washington, | 6:40 | |
| which is Booker T. Washington High School now. | 6:46 | |
| It was Booker T. Washington Intermediate | 6:49 | |
| on one side of the auditorium, | 6:54 | |
| - | And the high school | |
| on the other side? | 6:58 | |
| - | And the high school on the other side | 6:59 |
| of the auditorium. | 7:00 | |
| - | And that was a very large school? | 7:01 |
| - | Yes, it was. | 7:02 |
| And that was seventh grade through eighth. | 7:06 | |
| When you went to the ninth grade you went to high school. | 7:12 | |
| - | So you went to Booker T. Washington High School? | 7:16 |
| - | Right, uh-huh. | 7:18 |
| - | So what do you remember about that school? | 7:19 |
| - | What do I remember? | 7:26 |
| Well, I, | 7:28 | |
| let's see, basically was a lot- | 7:34 | |
| well, naturally it was a lot of studying | 7:39 | |
| and I didn't get to- | 7:41 | |
| I wasn't a socializer. | 7:46 | |
| I didn't socialize very much. (laughs) So. | 7:48 | |
| But I | 7:52 | |
| went to basketball games and they had football games. | 7:57 | |
| - | Did you like your teachers? | 8:07 |
| - | Well, yes. | 8:09 |
| I don't know of a teacher that I really didn't like, so. | 8:10 | |
| And you know, they put on plays and- | 8:17 | |
| - | So it was all Black high school as well? | 8:25 |
| - | Yes, it was. | 8:27 |
| - | And did you have good access to books | 8:30 |
| and things like that | 8:33 | |
| being a large high school? | 8:34 | |
| - | Yeah, I'm trying to remember, did we. | 8:39 |
| We had books. | 8:42 | |
| I think the school let you have books, | 8:43 | |
| but you had to turn those books back in | 8:48 | |
| at the end of the semester, mm-hmm. | 8:50 | |
| - | Did you have a library in the school? | 8:53 |
| - | In the school? | 8:57 |
| We always went to Blyden Branch library, | 8:58 | |
| which was, | 9:04 | |
| that was near my house too. | 9:09 | |
| - | That was a public library? | 9:12 |
| - | Yes, it was. | 9:13 |
| - | Was it the city library or? | 9:16 |
| - | No, it was just an area library | 9:21 |
| in the Huntersville area. | 9:25 | |
| - | So was it considered a Black library? | 9:28 |
| - | Yes, I would. | 9:30 |
| - | What do you remember about Norfolk? | 9:40 |
| Like where would you shop? | 9:42 | |
| - | On Church Street was the largest shopping area. | 9:47 |
| Of course, some people shopped on Granby Street, | 9:56 | |
| but basically, it was segregation during the early years. | 9:59 | |
| And a lot of people didn't go on Granby Street | 10:06 | |
| because you know, they- | 10:12 | |
| Well, you know how salespeople- | 10:14 | |
| Well, no, you don't know neither, how salespeople were. | 10:16 | |
| They would rather wait on a White person | 10:20 | |
| before they would wait on you, you know, | 10:22 | |
| so a lot of people just didn't go in that area. | 10:24 | |
| - | So those were White businesses? | 10:27 |
| - | Yes. | 10:28 |
| - | On Granby Street? | 10:30 |
| - | Uh-huh, but. | 10:31 |
| - | Church Street had Black businesses? | 10:34 |
| - | Some Black businesses, | 10:37 |
| but they had, most of them were White businesses. | 10:38 | |
| - | White owned? | 10:43 |
| - | White owned, yes. | 10:44 |
| - | But they were for a Black clientele? | 10:48 |
| - | Well, more or less, you know, | 10:52 |
| you would see White people in there shopping too, but. | 10:55 | |
| - | The Blacks were more accepted on Church Street? | 11:03 |
| - | Right. | 11:04 |
| Well, I guess the people, even at that time, I mean, | 11:09 | |
| even on Church Street | 11:14 | |
| felt some kind of | 11:17 | |
| segregation too, but you know, I never experienced it, so. | 11:22 | |
| - | What ways might they have experienced segregation | 11:28 |
| on Church Street? | 11:31 | |
| - | For instance, if there were, | 11:32 |
| if there was a White person in the store, | 11:34 | |
| they would recognize them before, | 11:37 | |
| you know, they would recognize you. | 11:39 | |
| - | So you'd just be standing there? | 11:41 |
| - | Yes, mm-hmm. | 11:43 |
| - | But it was worse on Granby Street? | 11:48 |
| - | Oh yes. | 11:50 |
| - | Did you shop on Granby Street? | 11:51 |
| - | I'll tell you the truth, | 11:54 |
| not during the school years, I don't think I ever remember. | 11:56 | |
| I don't remember. | 11:59 | |
| I might have, but I don't remember. | 12:00 | |
| Can't recall. | 12:03 | |
| - | So Church Street had clothing stores? | 12:04 |
| - | Yeah, shoe stores and furniture stores and whatever. | 12:07 |
| - | And would you go to the movies? | 12:17 |
| - | Yes, the movies were on Church Street, too. | 12:20 |
| - | Okay, so was that all Black movie theater? | 12:24 |
| - | Yes, but they were owned by White, | 12:27 |
| but they were Black movies, you know, for Black people, | 12:32 | |
| movies for Black people. | 12:36 | |
| - | Did you ever go to a movie theater | 12:40 |
| that was like segregated within the movie house? | 12:41 | |
| - | No, uh-uh. | 12:45 |
| - | They just had to go- | 12:46 |
| - | Yes. | |
| - | And Whites would go somewhere else? | 12:48 |
| - | Yes, on Granby Street and other streets, mm-hmm. | 12:50 |
| - | What'd you do after high school? | 13:06 |
| - | Well, I got married in, | 13:11 |
| I got married in, you want the year? | 13:15 | |
| - | Sure. | 13:17 |
| - | I got married in '42, 1942. | 13:18 |
| And then my first child was born in | 13:27 | |
| '40- one minute- | 13:32 | |
| '43, that's when it was, mm-hm. | 13:39 | |
| - | Did you work? | 13:45 |
| - | Not at that time, I didn't. | 13:47 |
| And then I had a second child in '44. | 13:49 | |
| And I think I worked between the third child, | 13:59 | |
| the second and the third child, which was, huh? | 14:05 | |
| - | What'd you do? | 14:08 |
| - | Housework. | 14:10 |
| - | So you- | 14:13 |
| - | At that time | |
| I did housework. | 14:15 | |
| - | So what year did you have your third child? | 14:19 |
| - | '48. | 14:21 |
| - | Okay. | 14:22 |
| And where'd you work? | 14:25 | |
| - | After she was born I did some catering. | 14:28 |
| I did catering at | 14:32 | |
| a all White church. | 14:36 | |
| - | So you, would you cook at the church or? | 14:44 |
| - | Yes, mm-hmm. | 14:48 |
| And in the meantime | 14:51 | |
| I was still doing housework | 14:54 | |
| and I went to beauty school at night. | 14:59 | |
| - | So where did you do housework? | 15:07 |
| - | You mean what area? | 15:11 |
| - | Yeah, and well, for whom? | 15:12 |
| - | Well, the White people that I did the housework for- | 15:15 |
| - | Was it a family? | 15:19 |
| - | Yes, mm-hmm. | 15:20 |
| Well, a husband and a wife, | 15:22 | |
| wasn't, you know, they didn't have children. | 15:24 | |
| I don't even know what the year I started beauty school | 15:37 | |
| and what year I came out of beauty school. | 15:40 | |
| It was in the fifties, | 15:43 | |
| I know that I completed it. | 15:44 | |
| Then I worked for a few years in the beauty salon. | 15:50 | |
| - | What was that like? | 15:56 |
| - | Enjoyable, 'cause I enjoyed doing hair. | 15:58 |
| The only thing about working in the beauty parlor | 16:05 | |
| was the majority of the people work days | 16:09 | |
| and you had to work nights. | 16:12 | |
| So I worked for a while, | 16:15 | |
| but after my children started getting in the teenage years, | 16:16 | |
| I came out of the beauty parlor | 16:21 | |
| so I could be home evenings with them. | 16:23 | |
| - | Okay, so you worked in the evenings when you started. | 16:26 |
| - | When I first started I'd work any time, day, | 16:28 |
| but I'd work through the evenings, you know, | 16:32 | |
| but you got mostly your appointments in the evening | 16:36 | |
| after, you know, working hours | 16:39 | |
| after four o'clock I would say. | 16:41 | |
| So then. | 16:48 | |
| - | What's the salon did you work for? | 16:50 |
| - | In the beauty parlor? | 16:52 |
| - | Yeah, the beauty parlor. | 16:53 |
| - | I think, let's see, | 16:57 |
| until '60, | 17:00 | |
| 1960, 'cause I had another child in '61. | 17:06 | |
| - | Okay. | 17:10 |
| - | I'd say '61 because no, it was '60 in 1960 | 17:13 |
| because he was born in the early '61. | 17:19 | |
| - | So what salon, what beauty parlor | 17:22 |
| did you work for, the name of it? | 17:25 | |
| - | Beatrice Beauty Salon. | 17:27 |
| - | And where was that? | 17:33 |
| - | In Huntersville. | 17:33 |
| - | Was it a big salon? | 17:39 |
| - | I'd say, well comparing to the salons today | 17:43 |
| it was small | 17:48 | |
| 'cause it had six chairs in it, you know. | 17:50 | |
| - | And did most of your clientele | 17:59 |
| what'd they do for a living? | 18:02 | |
| - | Were they what? | 18:05 |
| - | Did, were they school teachers or were they? | 18:06 |
| - | Yeah, some school teachers, housewives, | 18:09 |
| domestic workers, like, you know, | 18:13 | |
| I had been. | 18:15 | |
| - | A whole | |
| range of people? | 18:17 | |
| - | Yes, mm-hmm, right. | |
| Yes, and of course, after I had my fourth son, | 18:19 | |
| I would stay at home for a while, but | 18:25 | |
| I guess until he was about, I don't know, | 18:30 | |
| four or four and a half anyway, | 18:35 | |
| I put him in kindergarten and | 18:38 | |
| I went back to doing day's work. | 18:44 | |
| So when he left out, I would leave out | 18:48 | |
| and by the time he got back home, you know, | 18:51 | |
| I was coming in | 18:54 | |
| or my father at that time would take him in | 18:56 | |
| if I, you know, didn't get there before he did. | 18:59 | |
| - | So what did your husband do? | 19:04 |
| - | He was a stevedore. That- | 19:06 |
| And now his first job, he was, | 19:09 | |
| he worked in | 19:15 | |
| a fish shop | 19:18 | |
| where they sold fish, the fish market. | 19:22 | |
| And then he became, you know, | 19:27 | |
| he went to the tobacco company after the first job. | 19:32 | |
| And then he went in service. | 19:40 | |
| - | Did he serve in the war? | 19:47 |
| - | He been overseas, but the war ended when he got- | 19:50 |
| - | Okay, so that was World War II? | 19:54 |
| - | Yes, this was World War II. | 19:56 |
| And when he came back, he went, | 20:01 | |
| he got a job as a stevedore. | 20:04 | |
| He worked on a longshoreman's corner | 20:07 | |
| and then he went down to the Naval Supply Center. | 20:10 | |
| - | So what was it like during World War II? | 20:21 |
| Because you had children. | 20:25 | |
| - | Yes, I had, during World War II, | 20:27 |
| I had two children when he went in the service. | 20:31 | |
| - | Because they had like the rations. | 20:36 |
| - | Right. | 20:38 |
| Yeah, I'll tell you the truth, | 20:44 | |
| I done forgot all about the war. | 20:46 | |
| (interviewer laughs) | 20:48 | |
| - | So I guess it must not have been that difficult. | 20:51 |
| - | No, I, no. | 20:53 |
| I tell you, it- | 20:55 | |
| I guess, | 20:59 | |
| I tell you the truth I never really had | 21:01 | |
| that much money to work with. | 21:03 | |
| So I always could budget. (phone rings) | 21:05 | |
| [INTERRUPTION] | 21:09 | |
| - | You were saying that you could budget. | 21:11 |
| - | Yes, I learned to budget very well. | 21:14 |
| So I think we did pretty good. | 21:18 | |
| We had problems. | 21:22 | |
| We would | 21:24 | |
| get behind in little things at different times, | 21:28 | |
| but you know, we basically made it. | 21:30 | |
| - | You had help from your parents? | 21:38 |
| - | Well, yes, because when I first got married, | 21:40 |
| I lived with my parents until the second child was born | 21:43 | |
| and this was when my husband went in service. | 21:50 | |
| And then when he came out of service, we got an apartment. | 21:55 | |
| - | And what church did you go to? | 22:06 |
| - | At that time, I was going to the Church of God | 22:09 |
| and True Holiness. | 22:12 | |
| - | And what denomination is that? | 22:23 |
| - | Congregational Christian. | 22:25 |
| Okay, then when I, when we got an apartment to ourselves, | 22:36 | |
| we lived next door to Shiloh Baptist | 22:42 | |
| and I sent my children to Shiloh Baptist Church. | 22:45 | |
| And, of course, I went there on occasions, too. | 22:53 | |
| - | And what church did you grow up in? | 23:00 |
| Did you grow up in- | 23:02 | |
| - | In the Church of God and True Holiness, mm-hmm. | 23:03 |
| - | What was that like? | 23:07 |
| - | Well, we enjoyed it, you know, you know how children are, | 23:09 |
| they always had your space, you know, | 23:12 | |
| kids sat on one side of the church. | 23:14 | |
| And we were involved in different things | 23:16 | |
| and Sunday school | 23:20 | |
| and speaking, putting on programs. | 23:24 | |
| - | So. | 23:33 |
| (phone rings) | 23:34 | |
| - | I'll take this off. [INTERRUPTION] | |
| - | So was it like a social aspect of going to church as well? | 23:38 |
| - | Yes. Yes. | 23:43 |
| - | [Answering Machine Message] Hello, | 23:46 |
| I'm not able to answer your call at this time. | 23:47 | |
| - | We, it was a group of us, you know, | 23:50 |
| that always got together | 23:53 | |
| and would walk to church | 23:55 | |
| and you know, we enjoyed it. (Answering machine beeps). | 23:58 | |
| - | So do you remember any of like | 24:10 |
| the signs of segregation in Norfolk? | 24:13 | |
| - | Yes, riding the bus | 24:18 |
| where the Blacks had to sit in the back, | 24:21 | |
| the Whites in the front. | 24:25 | |
| How a White person could come up and ask you to move, | 24:31 | |
| to get up and let them have the seat and, | 24:35 | |
| take that phone off the hook for me, please. | 24:44 | |
| Thank you. | 24:46 | |
| - | And were there any other, | 24:49 |
| like the bathrooms or bus stations | 24:50 | |
| where you had separate? | 24:55 | |
| - | Yes, there were. | 24:57 |
| I know in the bus terminals. | 25:00 | |
| I never rode a train from Norfolk. | 25:07 | |
| I rode a boat and got on a train in Cape Charles, | 25:11 | |
| but I don't remember whether, you know. | 25:16 | |
| - | What boat would you get on? | 25:21 |
| - | Well, I don't know what the boat was. | 25:27 |
| It was a ferry would take you to Cape Charles | 25:30 | |
| when you were going north, | 25:34 | |
| you had to catch the boat from Norfolk, | 25:36 | |
| the ferry from Norfolk and- Kiptopeke Ferry. | 25:39 | |
| That's what it was, was called. | 25:42 | |
| (phone disconnected beeps) | 25:47 | |
| Oh gosh, that's going to be- | 25:49 | |
| - | That's okay, that's okay. | 25:51 |
| - | It's going to be on there. | 25:53 |
| (phone disconnected beeps) | 25:56 | |
| It'll stop. | 25:59 | |
| - | Okay. | |
| (phone disconnected beeps) | 26:00 | |
| And I never experienced | 26:06 | |
| any segregation on the boat, | 26:10 | |
| I guess I was never | 26:13 | |
| had to go to the, you know, the restrooms | 26:19 | |
| or anything like that. | 26:21 | |
| (phone disconnected beeps) | 26:22 | |
| - | Did your grand, | 26:37 |
| your grandmother was alive when you first moved in? | 26:38 | |
| - | Yes. | 26:41 |
| - | Did she tell you any stories, like family stories? | 26:44 |
| - | Mm, yes. | 26:49 |
| They used to tell little things, | 26:51 | |
| but I don't remember it now. | 26:54 | |
| - | Did she tell you stories about slavery? | 26:57 |
| - | Oh, no. | 26:59 |
| - | What newspapers did you read? | 27:08 |
| - | "The Virginian-Pilot" and "The Journal and Guide," | 27:11 |
| which was a Black newspaper. | 27:19 | |
| "The Pilot" wasn't Black. It was, it's White. | 27:25 | |
| - | And would the White paper include any like Black news | 27:34 |
| or things that were going on in the Black community? | 27:37 | |
| - | I'm sure so, but I don't remember. | 27:40 |
| - | But to find out about Black stuff, | 27:45 |
| you mostly read "The Journal and Guide"? | 27:46 | |
| - | "The Guide," yes. | 27:49 |
| I'm sure they, the White paper, | 27:51 | |
| printed Black news, probably. | 27:56 | |
| I guess all the bad things, I'm sure. | 28:02 | |
| (interviewer chuckles) | 28:04 | |
| - | Mm-hmm. | 28:05 |
| - | Oh, health. | 28:15 |
| Could you tell me a little bit about healthcare? | 28:18 | |
| - | Healthcare? | 28:21 |
| - | Yeah, like would you go to, | 28:21 |
| did you go to the hospital and have your children? | 28:23 | |
| - | Yes, I did, but | 28:26 |
| I went to an all Black hospital. | 28:30 | |
| - | Okay. | 28:33 |
| So most people when they had their children, | 28:39 | |
| they went to the hospital? | 28:40 | |
| - | Well, no, not most people. | 28:42 |
| I mean, a lot of people, you know, went to hospital, | 28:44 | |
| but I know a lot of people that stayed home had midwives. | 28:48 | |
| - | Midwives. | 28:53 |
| - | Mm-hmm. | |
| But I guess I was just fortunate, you know, | 28:58 | |
| to have gone to the hospital. | 29:00 | |
| - | So most people couldn't necessarily afford | 29:04 |
| to go to the hospital? | 29:08 | |
| - | Well, I think maybe during the time | 29:09 |
| that I was having my children, | 29:11 | |
| I believe that most folks- | 29:15 | |
| Well, at least most I knew, you know, they had jobs. | 29:21 | |
| So, and at that time it was much, | 29:26 | |
| much cheaper to have a child then than it is now. | 29:31 | |
| 'Cause I remember my first one, I paid 27.50. | 29:34 | |
| (laughs) | 29:38 | |
| - | That's good. | 29:40 |
| You would like that, now? | 29:43 | |
| - | Yeah. Mm-hmm. | 29:45 |
| - | Did you ever travel? | 29:48 |
| - | Yes, we would travel mostly to Philadelphia. | 29:50 |
| I had an aunt and uncle | 29:55 | |
| and that's where my grandmother eventually went | 29:56 | |
| to Philadelphia to live. | 29:59 | |
| I had cousins up there, so. | 30:03 | |
| - | What do you remember about traveling? Did you enjoy it? | 30:10 |
| - | Yes, you know, you always enjoy being with family. | 30:13 |
| Of course we had eventually, you know, | 30:19 | |
| had friends up there. | 30:22 | |
| I still communicate with, you know, a friend, there. | 30:23 | |
| - | Was Philadelphia, a lot different than Norfolk | 30:30 |
| at the time or was it kind of the same? | 30:32 | |
| - | I think, | 30:38 |
| I'm thinking that there was some difference | 30:40 | |
| and perhaps I did not notice, you know, | 30:44 | |
| the differences, but | 30:49 | |
| I really don't know. | 30:54 | |
| You go and visit, you know, | 31:00 | |
| you get out and go around to different places, | 31:02 | |
| shopping and to the stores and all, | 31:06 | |
| but I never noticed that much. | 31:10 | |
| But other than riding the buses myself, I never really | 31:14 | |
| felt a lot of segregation. | 31:24 | |
| Maybe I didn't go to the places, you know, but you know. | 31:32 | |
| - | So you could kind of avoid like the insults. | 31:36 |
| - | Mm-hmm, well no, I never, you know, | 31:39 |
| experienced anything like that. | 31:43 | |
| And I don't think it was because I avoided to, you know, | 31:45 | |
| but I just never experienced anything like that. | 31:49 | |
| - | There was like a Black community | 31:53 |
| large enough that you didn't have to- | 31:56 | |
| - | Well, yes, that's true. | 31:58 |
| And then too, in the later years when I did start shopping, | 32:03 | |
| you know, on Granby Street and wherever, | 32:06 | |
| I still didn't experience any | 32:09 | |
| major segregations, you know. | 32:14 | |
| - | Do you think that was because Norfolk was more urban? | 32:20 |
| - | It might have been. | 32:24 |
| And then too, you know, there's a lot | 32:25 | |
| of servicemen in this area, you know, | 32:27 | |
| especially Navy men, you know. | 32:31 | |
| - | How would that have affected? | 32:39 |
| - | I don't know. | 32:45 |
| I imagine because I just have seen, you know- | 32:46 | |
| Now I've heard of, you know, | 32:51 | |
| segregation among the servicemen, | 32:55 | |
| but I used to see the Black and the Whites together, | 32:58 | |
| you know, in the early years, so. | 33:02 | |
| - | And that was kind of normal | 33:07 |
| because it was a mix of people in the area. | 33:09 | |
| - | Yes, and then too, they were, you can push that. | 33:11 |
| They were, I imagine because they were servicemen | 33:15 | |
| and I guess stationed together | 33:19 | |
| and had become friends, you know? | 33:22 | |
| - | Okay. | 33:32 |
| Where would you take your children | 33:34 | |
| 'cause you lived in like an urban area. | 33:35 | |
| Were there parks where you- | 33:38 | |
| - | Yes, there was a city park | 33:39 |
| which was segregated | 33:45 | |
| and then there was a park in Huntersville | 33:47 | |
| that it was a nice park that the kids always used. | 33:52 | |
| - | And that was an all Black park? | 33:59 |
| - | Yes, it was. | 34:00 |
| - | How was the other park segregated? | 34:03 |
| - | Well, how? | 34:06 |
| They had, I guess they. | 34:10 | |
| - | Did they, they have dividers, | 34:16 |
| are there certain areas you weren't supposed to go? | 34:18 | |
| - | No, I don't, I never experienced anything like that. | 34:20 |
| - | Oh, okay. | 34:23 |
| - | Because they, the city park, you know, | 34:24 |
| you had the animals and all different things like that | 34:26 | |
| looked over. | 34:29 | |
| I could be, you know. | 34:30 | |
| - | Just seems strange they would try to segregate a park. | 34:36 |
| - | Maybe you just felt that way. | 34:42 |
| You know, knowing how, how the area was. | 34:44 | |
| - | Children weren't, White and Black children couldn't play. | 34:49 |
| - | Oh, well they didn't, you know, | 34:51 |
| I guess unless the schools carry, of course at that time, | 34:54 | |
| the say, you know, schools weren't integrated. | 34:57 | |
| - | Mm-hmm. | 35:01 |
| - | But I know the schools would carry the kids, you know, | 35:03 |
| out to city park. | 35:07 | |
| And of course my kids, you know, I took them to the beach. | 35:10 | |
| We had a couple of Black beaches in the area, | 35:14 | |
| City Beach and Seaview Beach. | 35:19 | |
| There was a Buckroe Beach over in Newport News | 35:24 | |
| or Hampton one, I don't know which, | 35:28 | |
| Newport News, I think it is. | 35:29 | |
| I don't know. | 35:37 | |
| You know, churches used to, | 35:39 | |
| especially in the summertime after vacation Bible school, | 35:42 | |
| they always had a big day at the beach. | 35:45 | |
| So that was something that kids always look forward to. | 35:49 | |
| - | So did you enjoy this time? | 36:01 |
| - | Yes, I did. | 36:04 |
| I guess we were poor folks, | 36:08 | |
| but we didn't know we were poor, | 36:12 | |
| you know, and I think the neighborhood was, | 36:13 | |
| was closer then, you know, than it is now. | 36:19 | |
| - | You had a lot of friends in your area? | 36:28 |
| - | Oh, well, yes, you know, nice neighbors. | 36:30 |
| And of course you could tell a neighbor's child | 36:34 | |
| to behave or a neighbor could tell your child to behave | 36:39 | |
| and you know, they would, he would see the difference. | 36:43 | |
| - | Okay. | 36:54 |
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