Etta Mann interview recording, 1994 August 05

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Tunga White	Come on. Mrs. Mann, before I start asking you questions about your life, can you tell me if you remember your grandparents?	0:00
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yes, I do. I was raised by my grandmother. Her name was Lizzie Robinson, and I'll be happy to even show you her picture. She was part Indian, very beautiful woman. She was the mother of 13 children and she was a midwife by craft. She attended Claflin, Claflin College in Orangeburg, but at that time, I don't know if they were awarding bachelor degrees. I think it was a program called the LLI degree program. But anyway and that was in Eastover, South Carolina, which is between Columbia and Sumter. She is now deceased and when she died, she was 96.	0:15
Tunga White	What year did she die?	1:30
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh God, she died in 1962, '63 because the following year we went to Hawaii. I think my husband, I may be a little off on the days.	1:32
Tunga White	Now where was she from?	1:52
Etta Nikpeay Mann	She was raised and born in a little town known as Gadsden. That's another little place right out from Eastover. Now this lady I'm talking about is my mother's mother. I also remember my father's mother, I'm named for her. And her name was Etta Bynum Nickpeay, N-I-C-K-P-E-A-Y. And I believe Grandma Etta had maybe about seven or eight children my father being the oldest of her children, and I am the oldest grandchild for both sides.	1:54
Tunga White	What about your grandfathers?	2:58
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Now, I barely remember my grandfather on my father's side and he operated a little cobbler shop in Eastover, and at one time he had worked for the Atlantic Coastline Railroad and had lost a leg. It was an accident, so I distinctly remember him having this one leg. And I don't remember my mother's father at all.	3:00
Tunga White	What was your father's father's name?	3:32
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Arthur.	3:36
Tunga White	If you don't mind me going back to your mother's mother who raised you, you said she was a midwife. How did she get her training for that?	3:44
Etta Nikpeay Mann	They would train at Benedict College and then they would also come to Penn Center. Penn Center had a training program for midwives and I would wager a bet that she probably started by going with some other midwife and observing in the very beginning. But she was the midwife for all of her grandchildren and other people in the community, but she was midwife number one.	3:54
Tunga White	Since you were raised by her and she was a midwife, did you know of any practices of the midwifes, for instance, the kind of things she might have carried when she went to delivery a baby.	4:40
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah. She had a black bag and in that bag would be a pair of scissors, soap, and it seems like the soap was Octagon soap. And what else she have in there? She had, I did say scissors, right? I just can't recall because that black bag was her own little, you didn't mess with that. But I do know because I would see her balling these, the scissors. And I know she always would have this kind of soap. I guess it was to scrub or clean since that Octagon soap was, it was an all-purpose kind of soap, and more than likely she may have had some kind of cloth. I don't know. But those two things I remember.	5:06
Tunga White	Can you remember any of the things she would tell the new mothers, how to take care of themselves or the baby?	6:27
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, I remember that once you had that baby, you had to remain in your room for so many days. I don't know whether it was seven days, it may have been eight days. And during that time, your diet was tea and some kind of crackers. And on the eighth day or the 10th day was when this mother could venture out. And then it was a practice that somebody would take the baby and it would be wrapped in a blanket and you had to walk around the house with this baby. And I've done that many a times because when she would go back to visit the birth mother, I would accompany her a lot of times.	6:37
Tunga White	Was there a certain number of times you had to walk around?	7:44
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, just that one time. You would go out this front door and then come all the way back around and reenter into the front door.	7:46
Tunga White	Now I'm sure you asked why in the world you were doing that. Did you?	7:57
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well, it was the baby's first time coming out. All I distinctly remember is gal, you better not trip. You better not fall because if you did, I guess you would, the baby could be hurt if you would fall.	8:01
Tunga White	So you don't really know—	8:19
Etta Nikpeay Mann	What the real purpose was.	8:20
Tunga White	So were there any other things that she would tell the mother that she could or could not do right after having the baby?	8:22
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, there were certain foods they couldn't eat. Cabbage was one. I don't know what about the cabbage. And then I guess after the mother got up, she just had to be kind of careful because most mothers during that time, they would breastfeed their babies.	8:31
Tunga White	I think we had a question about wet nurses. How—	8:58
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well a wet nurse is someone else who had milk and you did not, just like if you had given birth to a baby and I had given birth about the same time, but you didn't have enough milk to breastfeed your baby, then I would breastfeed your baby. So I understand that during slavery time, a lot of Black women who had babies breastfed for their mistress.	9:03
Tunga White	Do you know of this practice going on after?	9:34
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I don't know.	9:37
Tunga White	And you said she was also a part Indian. What part Indian was she?	9:44
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Whatever that Indian would be up around that Columbia, the Cherokee Indians. I'll show you a picture. Oh, I forgot.	9:48
Tunga White	Let me just— You said she attended Claflin. Do you know when she went there?	9:58
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I don't know when she went, what year she went there, but it had to have been very, very early because during the time I remember she was telling me they didn't even have plumbing.	10:07
Tunga White	And what was she taking up then?	10:28
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I'm assuming it was like your basic, maybe your English, your math, literature or whatever the program was during that time.	10:31
Tunga White	Did she have any other jobs besides being a midwife?	10:55
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well, she operated a farm.	10:58
Tunga White	Were they, was the family land owners?	11:06
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, she owned her own land, farmed her own. In fact, they were sharecroppers, like people who live on your land and then would farm, because my grandfather, the one I did not know, operated this big farm. And after his death she carried on along with the help of the children. And they had a store, they had, the man that they bought this farm from, they also bought his house. So it was a large plantation style house with large rooms, I'm told. And they even had, part of the walls would be plaster and then part would be wood and they'd talk about the smokehouse, when they would kill so many hogs for themselves. And they made sausages and cracklins and lard and rows of potatoes that were banked.	11:10
Etta Nikpeay Mann	And then something, what happened? I don't know whether it was the boll weevils or something came in and put them into a financial slump. And also about this time, I guess it was the first World War and boys had left and people who you could get to come help you work on the farm, they had all gone because during this time it was no one there but my grandmother and my brother, the two of us. And she planted during our time, she planted cotton, corn and a little peanuts, but not much. And we always had a garden and raised a few hogs, and we had a cow and two mules and looked like, yeah, we had a wagon.	12:52
Tunga White	And where was the land located?	14:20
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Eastover.	14:22
Tunga White	Eastover.	14:22
Tunga White	How many acres?	14:22
Etta Nikpeay Mann	212.	14:22
Tunga White	Do you know how many, an average number of share cropping families that live there?	14:36
Etta Nikpeay Mann	All right now, these sharecroppers were the Ellisons and I hear them talk about the Ellisons. And maybe in the Ellisons it could have been mother and father, then a big son who had married or something like that. I know about them.	14:41
Tunga White	Did you know, is it J.P. Mill?	15:09
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, he's from the Columbia area originally, from Hopkins.	15:11
Tunga White	That was someone we're trying to get in touch with.	15:16
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah. Right.	15:31
Tunga White	When you said he's [indistinct 00:15:32], my mama kept thinking of somebody and—	15:31
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Right.	15:31
Tunga White	You said the Ellison family was sharecroppers there. What did they bring into the share cropping agreement. And what did—	15:31
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Labor.	15:43
Tunga White	Just labor? That's—	15:44
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Just labor.	15:45
Tunga White	And then your Grandmother—	15:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Then my grandmother or the father would provide the seeds and the fertilizer and that stuff.	15:47
Tunga White	Did you ever have any, or did you ever hear that there were any White sharecroppers that worked—	16:06
Etta Nikpeay Mann	For Black? No, but living below us was a White family, the Cotton family, and everybody got along. When you would finish doing what you had to do, like if you was chopping cotton or picking cotton and let's say that he was not, then you would go over and help him. The relationship was really great.	16:12
Tunga White	About what times was that? Was that the 1930s, '40s?	16:38
Etta Nikpeay Mann	This would have been in the '30s and the '40s and it probably began to kind of slack off sometimes during the late '40s and the early '50s, whenever the war was at its peak, somewhere during that timeframe.	16:44
Tunga White	Did the war affect the relationships between the Whites and Blacks in the neighborhood?	17:05
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Not that I, no. See, when I was coming up you had neighbors, but they were not as close as this neighbor. Your neighbors could probably be far apart because you lived on your land. And so as far as you just coming in contact with the Whites, you knew them. They respected you, respected them. So that was—	17:13
Tunga White	Were they your playmates coming up from the White—	17:53
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, no, I don't remember. I didn't have any White playmates.	17:53
Tunga White	Were there other Blacks in the area that had substantial numbers of acres?	17:59
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh yeah, there was the Labrew family and there was, next to us was Blakely Scott. And then up above us was Miss Marley MacKnight, the MacKnights. And then on the other side of the Labrews was the Cottons and they were White, but no one had any more than anyone else. Everybody had land.	18:05
Tunga White	How do you spell	18:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	L-A-B-R-E-W.	18:50
Tunga White	Did they have sharecroppers run their lands?	18:57
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I didn't hear them mention about the Labrews and sharecroppers, but I'm almost sure that they probably did.	18:59
Tunga White	Around what year did your grandfather die?	19:18
Etta Nikpeay Mann	My grandfather died before I was born. You're talking about my mother's father. Right and I was born in 1928 and I believe he died years because my mother wasn't even married when he died.	19:23
Tunga White	So your father, where's your father's from?	19:45
Etta Nikpeay Mann	My father? Eastover.	20:02
Tunga White	Eastover. And what was his name?	20:11
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Arthur. He was named for his father who was Arthur. And then my brother was Arthur. My father was Arthur II. My brother was Arthur III.	20:14
Tunga White	So why were you raised by your grandmother?	20:28
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Because my mother and father were separated.	20:32
Tunga White	How many brothers and sisters do you have?	20:43
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I had only one brother.	20:45
Tunga White	And he is your older brother?	20:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, he's younger. I'm the oldest.	20:49
Tunga White	And you said your brother lived with your grandmother too?	20:53
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yes.	20:55
Tunga White	What age did you move in with your grandmother?	20:59
Etta Nikpeay Mann	As long as I can remember. I think she was the midwife when I was born. And I don't know when my mother moved in with her, but apparently we were very young.	21:04
Tunga White	Did your mother stay in the area?	21:25
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, my mother went to New York.	21:27
Tunga White	Why New York? Were there other family members—	21:34
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well, she taught school and I guess the job that she got in New York paid a little bit more than what she was earning as a teacher. Now, eventually she returned and then started teaching again.	21:36
Tunga White	Was she born in Eastover?	21:54
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yes.	21:55
Tunga White	How did she hear about the better salaries in New York?	22:00
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well, in all families you have some people that migrate and then when they do well, they tell you or tell you to come up. And I believe she went up to stay with a cousin.	22:06
Tunga White	Your cousin was a school teacher too?	22:24
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No.	22:28
Tunga White	Your father, after separation, did your father stay in the area?	22:34
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, my father stayed in the area.	22:37
Tunga White	Did you all kind of keep in contact?	22:42
Etta Nikpeay Mann	With him? Oh, yeah.	22:44
Tunga White	Did he live near?	22:52
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, not too far that we could walk up to see him, but there was a period in there when my father was ill. My father witnessed a very bad, I don't know whether it was an accident or intentionally, but he was working with the Atlantic Coastline Railroad and home base was a place called Rimini, which is right out of Sumter. And there was a conflict between two men and one man was killed. My father witnessed this and it was so devastating that as a result he had a nervous breakdown. So he spent some sometime in the state hospital.	22:54
Tunga White	Do you know if both of the gentlemen were Black?	23:55
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I don't know. I don't. And I think it was after this incident apparently is when we came to live with grandmother.	24:04
Tunga White	After he returned from the hospital, was he able to resume?	24:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, he came back to Grandma Etta. That was his mother. And then he started a little farming.	24:27
Tunga White	Did he ever remarry?	24:39
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No. Never.	24:43
Tunga White	Did your mother?	24:43
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Never.	24:43
Tunga White	You mentioned the home that your grandmother had. You said it was a large, very large.	24:58
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I was born in that house. When her husband, Mr. Robinson purchased this land, on this land was this house. And that was the house. And that house burned. I believe that what is discussed, no proof, that during the time when the boll weevils were so bad and people would borrow money to buy seeds and fertilizer. So to do that you would mortgage your place. Well, apparently this was a bad year and they're saying one of the boys deliberately set the house on fire to get the little insurance to pay to maintain the land. However, there was no proof of that. But that is what was said.	25:09
Tunga White	[indistinct 00:26:09].	26:07
Etta Nikpeay Mann	The house. All right. If I was born in it in '29, '28, it may have been '28, '29 or 30-something.	26:09
Tunga White	You said there were a lot of Black landowners in Eastover. Did they have any problems with White land owners or Whites harassing them for being landowners?	26:29
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Because Eastover is a Black town. It's about 90% Black.	26:43
Tunga White	Who did they purchase that land from? Your—	27:04
Etta Nikpeay Mann	From the Bynams. I don't know the first name, was a lot of Bynams but one of the Bynams.	27:09
Tunga White	And they were Black?	27:17
Etta Nikpeay Mann	They were White.	27:18
Tunga White	White. So do you know if the other Black families that were landowners purchased their land from Whites?	27:32
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I don't know. But I was told that the Bynams own all the way from the Wateree River, which would be way on the other side of us, all the way up to almost Columbia. So they may have owned all of this land, but I don't know that. But I know my grandfather purchased his land from one of the Bynams.	27:38
Tunga White	Did he at one time work on work that land?	28:05
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Who, my grandfather? Oh yeah, up until he died.	28:07
Tunga White	Okay, so he worked under the Bynams.	28:10
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, no, no, no. He purchased the land from one of the Bynams, then he worked on his own land.	28:15
Tunga White	Okay. Well I was trying to get an understanding of had he ever worked that land and then, some land in that area and then bought some.	28:22
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, this was just land for sale because my grandfather originally came from Hopkins.	28:32
Tunga White	As a child growing up there, what kind of chores did you have to do?	28:59
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, honey, we had to do whatever. Pick cotton, chopped cotton, work in the garden, feed the chickens, feed the livestock, whatever.	29:04
Tunga White	Were there many chores inside the house that you had?	29:26
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Inside the house there was the washing, ironing, and the cooking and that was it. My grandmother was more or less in the kitchen and I would help. And then when I could cook, then that also became a duty. She had a lady to come in to help with the washing, but you would have to help and get it in water. And my job was my brother would cut the firewood and I would bring it in and then we both would get the water from the well to keep the buckets filled with water. He would milk the cow. I would strain the milk because I never could master milking the cow. And oh, and you didn't have plumbing, indoor plumbing. So it was my job to see that the chamber pots were brought in and then in the mornings it was your job to take them out.	29:29
Tunga White	Since your grandmother was a widow, did a lot of the people in the area try to help out?	30:54
Etta Nikpeay Mann	With the farming?	31:02
Tunga White	The things that had be done there?	31:04
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well, not the neighbors so much as family. Family because she had an older son that lived on the land not too far from her. And he farmed some of her land, so he would let his older sons come up and always would see that there was wood and stuff like that.	31:05
Tunga White	What was the oldest son?	31:34
Etta Nikpeay Mann	His name was McKinley, M-C-K-I-N-L-E-Y. McKinley Scott. He was her son by first marriage.	31:35
Tunga White	Where was the school at?	32:01
Etta Nikpeay Mann	School was Weber. Weber Elementary, named for Randy Weber, a Black man who was a veterinarian, not by professional training, but he just had a way with animals and people would bring their animals to him. And he also owned a lot of land. Randy Weber.	32:03
Tunga White	How far was the school from your home?	32:33
Etta Nikpeay Mann	It was into the little town of Eastover. So I would imagine it was about 15 miles if that far, I'm not too good at estimating my—	32:36
Tunga White	How'd you get to school every day?	32:54
Etta Nikpeay Mann	We got to school every day because the farm next to us, Mr. Blakely Scott, he had a car and he would take his children and then we would ride in because there was a school bus, but the bus was not for us. It would pick up the Cotton kids that lived further down.	32:56
Tunga White	Now were Blakeley and McKinley Scott in relation?	33:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No.	33:28
Tunga White	The Scotts, when they picked up, they picked up you and your brother?	33:40
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, they picked up me. My brother went right up to a little two room school at that time.	33:44
Tunga White	Do you know the name of that?	33:53
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, it was a school built by my grandfather, Robinson. Robinson School. Because see, when my mother got out of school, she couldn't get a job. So then there was a lot of kids in that area so he just built a school. I think they told him, well, if you put up a school then we'll pay the teacher, something like that. And the teacher in that school's name was Ms. Rebecca Bailey.	34:00
Tunga White	How much education did your mother have?	34:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	My mother finished South Carolina State and during the time when she was in school, whatever the fee was, since her father was a big farmer, he could pay state with so many bushes of peas and so many hogs. You'd pay it off like that. And maybe he might take state a couple of bales of cotton and because it wasn't money, very, very little money.	34:46
Tunga White	Were most of the teachers in the schools in your area college educated?	35:32
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah. Now let me tell you, it was a little different because you could go to college for maybe not four years, I forgot, and get something that they called the LLI degree, but that would enable you to teach. And then of course in later years, everybody went back and got, I guess the degree that you have today.	35:37
Tunga White	Two or four years.	36:13
Etta Nikpeay Mann	My mother went to state for whatever that was, for the LLI degree. And then in later years she went to Allen University and there got finished up. And my father went to St. Augustine's College, but he did not finish.	36:16
Tunga White	And that's in Florida?	36:45
Etta Nikpeay Mann	That's in North Carolina. Raleigh, North Carolina. And then I ended up going there and also my brother.	36:47
Tunga White	Do you know someone named Russel Blunt, Coach Russel Blunt?	37:00
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, surely do. I don't know if he's—	37:04
Tunga White	He come from Durham.	37:09
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Did you? Oh, he's in Durham now. Yeah, right. Yeah.	37:10
Tunga White	When did you finish Augustine's?	37:22
Etta Nikpeay Mann	When? 1948.	37:22
Tunga White	And was that like a BA or is that—	37:29
Etta Nikpeay Mann	BA and then after St. Aug, I went to Indiana University and got a MS. And then after that I went to the University of South Carolina and got 30 hours above the masters.	37:34
Tunga White	So you attended the Robinson School?	37:59
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No.	38:01
Tunga White	You never did?	38:01
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I didn't attend that school. My brother went there. I was picked up by Mr. Blakely Scott and taken to Weber.	38:02
Tunga White	How many grades were in—	38:18
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Up at Weber?	38:20
Tunga White	At Robinson, do you know?	38:21
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I guess maybe about first, second. I don't even know if she had— I'd say six. Cause eventually the school was moved and then they had two teachers, so I would say maybe up to sixth grade.	38:24
Tunga White	So did your brother attend that school the whole [indistinct 00:38:50]	38:45
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No. No. My brother came into Weber and then, I don't know what grade this was because it was a high school and then he went to Voorhees. Voorhees then, you could get your high school and then you could also go on into college. And I believe now their program is just strictly college. But when he went there, he finished high schooling.	38:49
Tunga White	How many teachers were at your school, at Weber?	39:29
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, Weber was what they called the big school. Let me see. I was, oh lord, I can't even remember. I would say it was, ooh, maybe six or seven teachers, maybe more. The principal of that school was Mr. Barnwell. Mr. Eugene Barnwell.	39:32
Tunga White	Was the name of the Weber like high school or—	40:02
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, it was just Weber Elementary.	40:05
Tunga White	Elementary. How many grades were in there?	40:07
Etta Nikpeay Mann	That's the one, I guess, I left Weber when I was in— Weber probably had maybe eighth, up to the eighth grade. But I left after the seventh grade and then I went to Booker Washington in Columbia.	40:12
Tunga White	Can you recall any of the names of the teachers that taught you at Weber?	40:41
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, yes. There was Miss, my first grade teacher was Miss Alice, Alice Dowdy, she's still living. And another teacher was Miss Eva Cheesburr, my mother's best friend. And there was Miss Ethel Weber. The school was named for her father. And there was Miss Margaret Washington. And of course Mr. Barnwell, the principal. He also did some teaching and I just can't think of any others.	40:46
Tunga White	Did most of the children that had sharecropping parents, which school did they attend?	41:47
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Same school.	41:52
Tunga White	Same school?	41:53
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Those who didn't stop up at the Robinson School, they came on to Weber and they would walk.	41:56
Tunga White	And Weber was in, that in Eastover?	42:14
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah.	42:16
Tunga White	How long was the school day? When did it start and when did it end?	42:24
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Seems like you had to be there about eight, a little after eight. And you were out around about 2:30, something like that. But it seems like we got out at a different time and could see there was a White elementary school in Eastover also. So they dismiss at different times. If we got out at 2:30, then the White school dismissed at 2, or vice versa, something like that.	42:31
Tunga White	And your school year, was it a nine month school year too?	43:07
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Nine months? No. It started out as nine months and then there was a time in there where they had something called the Levi school where they would have a school during the summer, a month during the summer. Because you see, the cotton picking time starts in August and would flow into September. So to make up that time or be sure that they had people in the fields and they wouldn't miss the school, then during the summer they would have a month. And look like it was referred to as the Levi School. But see by now I'm in Columbia going to Booker Washington, and that was nine months. But I would come home in the summer.	43:12
Tunga White	I know you didn't graduate from school, but didn't they have eighth grade graduation there?	44:17
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Where? Weber? I don't remember hearing about that, but maybe, it may have been some. Yeah, because see, most of the people, when their children got a certain grade level, those who could afford it, they sent them to boarding school, which would be Voorhees or Matha in Camden. Or they would go live with a relative. And there was Harbison Institute up at Irmo. That was a boarding school. Some would go up there. And I was destined to go to Voorhees like my brother, but I cried so because they wore uniforms, a little midi blouse and skirt. I didn't want to wear that. So I lived with a Mrs. Bates and went to Booker Washington.	44:25
Tunga White	Was she a family friend or relative?	45:39
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, she was, how did we find her? Through my aunt, my father's sister taught school at Waverley, Waverley Elementary. And she lived with Mrs. Bates and that's how we met Mrs. Bates. So then that year I went and I stayed there under the guardianship of my aunt.	45:41
Tunga White	And what was your aunt's name?	46:09
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Her name was Janie. She's still living, Janie. At that time it was Nickpeay, N-I-C-K-P-E-A-Y, and she's now Simms. And she taught at Waverley Elementary and then went to Booker Washington. And then from Booker Washington to Cumberland, Maryland, back to Jenkinsville. Ran the St. Barnabas mission and now resides in Eastover.	46:11

Etta Nikpeay Mann	That went on. There were certain families whose children was expected to continue, because their family was in a position to pay for them. Then there was others who probably could have gone on, but really wasn't any money to send them. So they completed whatever that grade was at wherever, that was it.	0:01
Tunga White	So what was your day like after you came back from school for your remainder of your day? What would you do?	0:32
Etta Nikpeay Mann	All right, when you would come in from school, you had to take off your school clothing and put on something else to work in. And then if the lady had come to wash, or if washing was done, you had to take the clothing off the clothes line. If it was cotton picking time, you'd go in the field and pick a little cotton. You may have to reset the hay nest, get some straw in. You always had something to do, and don't forget now, you still got that wood to bring in and the water from the well, fill the buckets up and bring in the chamber pots.	0:39
Tunga White	And then you ate dinner?	1:29
Etta Nikpeay Mann	And then you would eat — well, we called it supper. Sometimes when you would come in from school, after you'd changed your clothes, you would eat. Because see, grandmother would've cooked, so you would eat. Then you'd do all these little chores and now it's getting on nighttime, you'd come in and you'd have what you'd call supper. And then if you had any homework to do or whatnot, you would do that and everybody would be — My brother, grandmother, myself would be in one room and if it's the wintertime, the fireplace would be going and you'd get ready for bed and that's it.	1:32
Tunga White	What were the weekends like? Would they let you enjoy the weekend?	2:32
Etta Nikpeay Mann	The weekend, well, Saturday was the cleaning of the yard. And your yard was clean, not grass, it had to be cut. You'd sweep the yard with the broom and you may have a few little things to wash. Then that afternoon, you would come into the little town of Eastover, because the shopping had to be done, the little buying of grocery. And that was your little outing, because you was given maybe a nickel, you'd get your little ice cream cone or what have you. And you would maybe see your friends, who had come into town with their families and then you'd come back home.	2:35
Etta Nikpeay Mann	And Sunday was church, and that was Sunday school and the church service. And then usually after the church service, they'd have a missionary meeting. Well, while they was doing that, this would give you a little time to chat with your little friends, while you was waiting for your parents. And you'd come home and have your Sunday dinner, which was always a special dinner, from what you had during the week.	3:31
Etta Nikpeay Mann	And if your grandmother would go visit somebody, you would get to go. And usually, whoever she visited had children that you would play with. And that was the weekend.	4:06
Tunga White	You said on Saturdays you all would go into town. Were there any Black businesses [indistinct 00:04:28]-	4:25
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yes. Well, not a lot, but there was the Jeff Scott's Store, had a grocery store, and down the street was Ms. Maude Smith. And she had a little restaurant, where she sold fish sandwiches and stuff like that. And then further down now, that would probably take up the Black businesses. Now the further down was the drug store, that was White. You could go in there and she had comic books, magazines, that you could buy. And there was a railroad track right straight through the center of the town. And when the train was coming, you would go over to the train to watch the train, to see who was getting off the train, or who was getting on the train. And that was it. There was a library, but it was not for Blacks. We couldn't use it. Let me see, other businesses. Seems like the other businesses were White.	4:32
Tunga White	Were there any Black barbershops, or beauty salons, or funeral homes in the city?	6:15
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Now in later years, there was a beauty shop and there was a Black funeral business, but not in Eastover. It was in Gatson, Holly and Son. But now there is a funeral home in the city.	6:27
Tunga White	The clothing store, what-	6:54
Etta Nikpeay Mann	That was operated by a Jew, and all we know is we just called him Joe the Jew. And there was a clothing store.	6:56
Tunga White	So that's where most of the Black got their clothing?	7:08
Etta Nikpeay Mann	If you needed — That's right.	7:10
Tunga White	How did he treat his Black customers?	7:15
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Very well. And his name was Rubinstein. Joe Rubinstein.	7:17
Tunga White	On Saturdays, when you had to go into the cotton field, how long was the time-	7:35
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, you'd be through about 12:00.	7:43
Tunga White	Twelve o'clock?	7:44
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah. Very rarely you would have to, because Saturday was your time for the house. That was when you had to sweep the front yard and maybe scrub the kitchen, the front porch and the back porch and like that.	7:45
Tunga White	What church did you attend on Sunday?	8:06
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Okay. Because I lived with my grandmother, she was Baptist, I went to Mount Zion Baptist Church. But when I was born, I was Christened in the Episcopal Church, but St. Thomas Episcopal Church, it was difficult for my brother and I to get there, because nobody else was going there. So we went where my grandmother went. But we are Episcopalians.	8:08
Tunga White	Do you follow Episcopalians?	8:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yes. My father's Episcopalian, my mother was Baptist, and when we lived with our grandmother, we went to Mount Zion Baptist Church. And then when I went to St. Aug, I was confirmed and baptized Episcopalian.	8:48
Tunga White	How far was Mount Zion from your home?	9:27
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I told you that Eastover was about 10 or 15 miles. Well, Mount Zion would've probably been about 11 or 12. About that.	9:31
Tunga White	Did y'all attend church, every church-	9:39
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Every Sunday.	9:53
Tunga White	Did your grandmother hold any positions in the church?	9:58
Etta Nikpeay Mann	She was mother of the church, member of the Missionary Society.	10:02
Tunga White	And you all attended Sunday School every Sunday too?	10:15
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yep.	10:18
Tunga White	Who was the pastor that you had?	10:33
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Reverend — There was a minister before him and I just cannot recall his name, but Reverend Neil. Westbury Neil. He's in Columbia now. He's related to the same Neil that you were talking about.	10:34
Tunga White	[indistinct 00:11:02]. Can you recall any of the names of some of the deacons in the church [indistinct 00:11:06]-	11:01
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, yeah. There was Deacon Timmons, Deacon Miller, Uncle Burt and McKinley Scott, my grandmother's oldest son. He was a deacon in that church. Deacon McKinley Scott. Mr. Joe Cheeseborough. Oh, God. Well that's all.	11:06
Tunga White	What were some of the activities at the church that-	11:47
Etta Nikpeay Mann	That you would do?	11:51
Tunga White	Yes.	11:52
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Okay. You would be an Usher and then they had programs, like Easter and Children's Day and Mother's Day, and you'd have the little speaking parts. And then when you would have been away, in the winter, in school and you would come back, you'd be recognized. They would recognize you and say, "Happy to have to have you back, and would you care to say a few words?" Well, you would say that you had a good year and you're glad to be back. A little something like that.	11:54
Tunga White	Were there any other programs throughout the year, that were big programs every year besides Easter, Children's Day, for instance, Men's Day or Women's Day, Revivals, and things like that?	12:48
Etta Nikpeay Mann	They had Revivals. I remember Revivals. I don't remember Men's Day, but they had Revival.	13:01
Tunga White	Were there Pastor Day recognitions?	13:12
Etta Nikpeay Mann	The pastors? I don't remember them doing it that much. Yes, they did too, his anniversary. But Revival was a big time, because you would have service every night.	13:14
Tunga White	How long did the Revivals last?	13:35
Etta Nikpeay Mann	For a week.	13:36
Tunga White	Was this like a fall revival, or a spring revival or just all year?	13:39
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, it would be in the fall. Maybe start in August early, and then you would look forward to going to church, because that's how you would see your little friends.	13:44
Tunga White	So would the different churches, other churches would [indistinct 00:14:06]-	14:02
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, other churches would come to your church and bring their choir and stuff. Then the minister stayed out at our house.	14:05
Tunga White	And would you have dinners, serve dinners [indistinct 00:14:24]-	14:20
Etta Nikpeay Mann	That would be the day of the — I don't know what this was was called, but it was something sponsored by the missionary and all the women would bring a basket. And you'd put the food out and everybody would, after the service eat, but it looked like this was not in connection with Revival. And maybe it was.	14:24
Tunga White	Was the Revival week, the time when they would baptized, the new [indistinct 00:15:04]-	14:54
Etta Nikpeay Mann	People in the church? I don't remember when they would do baptizing, but they did it. And I remember the baptizing was in a little creek, from the church, where you'd be baptized. But now, the church has changed. It's very modern now. And I'm almost sure that there's a baptism pool in the church. But growing up, there was not. You would go down to this little creek.	15:03
Tunga White	You were talking about some of the other churches, and that choirs would visit your church and you all would do the same for them. They would just pack up in different cars. The members who had cars?	15:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, that's how they would do.	16:00
Tunga White	So you said that you left Weber school, you were in seventh grade, and you went to-	16:16
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Booker Washington, in Columbia.	16:20
Tunga White	What kind of high school classes did you have at school?	16:26
Etta Nikpeay Mann	At Booker Washington? You mean like subjects?	16:30
Tunga White	Mm-hmm.	16:34
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I was in the band. I had home ec, I had biology, English, math, typing.	16:37
Tunga White	In your home economics class, what kind of things did you do?	17:02
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Okay, it was more or less crafts, like embroidery, making little dollies, because they had cooking, but I wasn't in that cooking. And it looked like it was for — but I don't remember being using those sewing machines. I think that's what the emphasis of this class was, like doing handy crafts.	17:05
Tunga White	Did your teachers then, have home visits at any time in the schools you attended?	18:07
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I don't ever remember a teacher coming to visit me. It may have been. And maybe they visited people who were some kind of problem, and that wasn't me.	18:13
Tunga White	Did the students who didn't have anybody to live with, any relatives, friends or anybody, did they have a dormitory that they used to lived in at Booker?	18:39
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, no. Uh-uh, you had to live with a family. And I lived with Mrs. Bates, and she was a music teacher. She taught piano. And at one time, she was secretary to Booker T Washington at Tuskegee. And she was originally from Boston. They had no children. And so I lived there with them, and was very happy living with her. She was a very gracious lady, that taught me a lot.	18:49
Tunga White	How many people graduated, when you graduated class?	19:39
Etta Nikpeay Mann	In my class there was 100, and I just had a class reunion.	19:41
Tunga White	Oh, really?	19:48
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Mm-hmm. 50 years. I think it was 116.	19:51
Tunga White	Do you have any programs on your [indistinct 00:19:59]-	19:54
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I think I can find one. Now, Booker Washington was the only high school in Columbia, at this time for Blacks.	19:59
Tunga White	What area of Columbia [indistinct 00:20:30]?	20:27
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Okay. You know where five points is?	20:31
Tunga White	I think so.	20:33
Etta Nikpeay Mann	All right. It's right up the hill. Our school has now been taken over by the University of South Carolina. There is a building there, that was our gym. And it is still standing there. And when the school was torn down, the bricks that are in the horseshoe at the University of South Carolina, they came from Booker Washington.	20:34
Tunga White	What was the name of that area? The hill. Was it something-	21:01
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Wheeler Hill.	21:09
Tunga White	Wheeler Hill? Mm-hmm. Okay. Charlie Jones?	21:09
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I don't know Charlie Jones.	21:12
Tunga White	I think he had some kind of reunion, the Wheeler reunion.	21:13
Etta Nikpeay Mann	They had. I saw that in the paper, but I didn't know these people. But we did have students who came to Booker Washington, as you know, that lived at Wheeler Hill. They were on Wheeler Hill.	21:18
Tunga White	So after graduation you went to Saint Augustine's?	21:34
Etta Nikpeay Mann	After finishing graduating from Booker Washington, I went to St. Augustine's College.	21:36
Tunga White	Was that mainly because your father attended that school?	21:45
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well, that And it was away.	21:48
Tunga White	[indistinct 00:21:54].	21:50
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, it was away, because everybody was going to South Carolina State for the most part. So I went there and spent four very happy years there.	21:55
Tunga White	So what was your major line of work?	22:14
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Commerce.	22:23
Tunga White	What kind of activities were you involved in, while you were-	22:35
Etta Nikpeay Mann	At St. Aug?	22:36
Tunga White	Mm-hmm.	22:36
Etta Nikpeay Mann	The Creative Dance Group. I won a prize. And drama, you had to do monologue readings. And when I went to St. Aug, the war was at its peak. So it was few men and then before I left, he was coming back on the GI Bill. But in the beginning — Sang in the choir.	22:40
Tunga White	What type of places did the choir go?	23:30
Etta Nikpeay Mann	We went to Durham one time, and there was some other place in North Carolina we went. Looked like it was an Army facility. It may have been, I don't know if it was as far as forever. It probably was.	23:33
Tunga White	What dormitory did you live in while you were —	24:19
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Freshman lived in Thomas Building and then sophomore and junior year, Delaney. And then senior building year, Tuttle.	24:22
Tunga White	Were the boys dormitories near the girls dormitories	24:42
Etta Nikpeay Mann	St Aug, it's somewhat in a horseshoe shape. So the Thomas Building was on your left. Delaney Building would be right in the center. And then coming on right after you pass Hunter building, was the boys' dorm. But I am told, I haven't been on that campus in years, that I wouldn't even know the campus. It has grown. So in fact, the president of the college was there when I was there. Prezell Robinson. And he is retiring in December.	24:47
Tunga White	Were the freshman required, or any of the other students required to go to chapel and things like that?	25:30
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, yes. We went to chapel every day and twice on Fridays.	25:36
Tunga White	What would happen if you didn't go one day?	25:51
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well, they had a seat check.	25:54
Tunga White	So you got a fine?	25:57
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yes, I doubt if they even do that now.	25:58
Tunga White	So what were some of the rules you had to abide by?	26:04
Etta Nikpeay Mann	All right, you had visitation. That means when the boys could come calling. It was from 2:30, until 5:30 and a bell would ring, to commence the beginning and to end it. Okay, if you went off campus, you had to sign out with someone. And you had to dress. You didn't walk off the campus, you had to — your stockings, your shoes, your purse, and you had to be back on campus at 5:30. I don't know why 5:30 was the magic time. And anything, if you was going shopping, you had to sign out with someone. If you was going to the movies, the same thing. You couldn't have a car and you wasn't permitted to ride in one either.	26:16
Tunga White	So the boys had rules just like this?	27:35
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No. The boys were-	27:39
Tunga White	Plenty of freedom?	27:39
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yes, the boys had plenty of freedom. It was just the girls. And then there was lights out, in the dormitory at — I don't know why I want to say 10 o'clock, because that sounds a little early, but seems like the lights would be out. Well, say 11:00 then. And then after that, if you were still studying, you could go to the study hall, which was up on your floor. And in your room, you could have, with permission a radio. And that was a dollar extra. It wasn't no television. And you couldn't have hot plates, things like that. And if you needed to heat up something, you would go — They had a little kitchenette place and anything. Then at the end of study hour, let's say study hours over at 8:30 or 9:30, then there was a little store that you could send and get something. Could be a soda, a candy bar, ice cream, or what have you. And then that was a person, assigned to do that. Just like it may be your duty this month, then you would take the order.	27:40
Tunga White	So this store was on or off campus?	29:19
Etta Nikpeay Mann	On campus, but in a different building. And then of course, you could always go to the library and come back. And if someone visited you — There was no telephones in your rooms. You had one telephone and that would be in the office. But each room had a bell Cigna. Your ring could maybe be three rings, or whatever. So that's how you would listen for your — You got five rings, you'd know it was you. Somebody was either downstairs to see you, or you had a phone call. And if any time that you would come into the lobby, you had to be dressed or depending on the lateness of the night, your robe on, something like that.	29:22
Tunga White	Who was your dorm mother, or dorm mothers?	30:28
Etta Nikpeay Mann	The dorm mothers, in Thomas was Ms. Burgess, and Delaney was Ms. Latham — No, not Latham. Latham was Tuddle, and Delaney was — Oh God, I can't call this woman's name. I see her face, but I just can't call it, honey.	30:33
Tunga White	If you were in your dorm, and broke some of the rules, what could happen to you?	31:19
Etta Nikpeay Mann	You'd be sent home.	31:19
Tunga White	Permanently or for a little while?	31:21
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Sent home, or put on probation. But most of the kids were so happy to be in school. And you knew you were there at a tremendous sacrifice to your parents. It wasn't like you were there on a student loan, or you had a grant. You talking about your parents, sending this money every month. And you wasn't about to mess up. However, there was some who did mess up, and they were sent home. St. Aug did not tolerate lying. The truth shall set you free. So if you got caught in something, that was it. No alcohol. You could smoke. Girls could smoke.	31:22
Tunga White	No?	32:36
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yep, girls could smoke.	32:37
Tunga White	Where could they have [indistinct 00:32:42] in their room?	32:40
Etta Nikpeay Mann	In their room.	32:42
Tunga White	Could they smoke on campus somewhere?	32:44
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, not sitting out on the campus smoking. But you could smoke in your room. You couldn't smoke in the classroom.	32:47
Tunga White	Did a lot of the girls smoke, or were-	32:57
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Huh?	32:57
Tunga White	— the minority of the girls smoke or just-	33:00
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh no, just some of them. The ones we call them little fast girls, smoking. Everybody attempted. I even tried it. I didn't like smoking. The city girls, them little girls from Eastover, little, small — You didn't do nothing like that.	33:02
Tunga White	Did a lot of the students have jobs on campus [indistinct 00:33:33]-	33:29
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yes. To get their little spending money. That's how I made mine. I worked in the laundry and then I worked in the library, dusting, and putting books up. And then I worked my senior year in the Tuddle building. Cleaning in the halls. When you cleaned your room, you would just sweep your trash out on the hall. And then it was this job, cleaning the hall. And there was a bathroom in the Tuddle, off limits to everyone, but to guests. So that was a joy to me, because I used it all the time, was like me having my own little private thing.	33:33
Tunga White	The money you got from these jobs, would it be pocket money, or would it go to the [indistinct 00:34:24]-	34:20
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, it would be little pocket money. And I'm not talking about money at best, it wasn't even $10 a month. But you could get your hair done, because it was always somebody — girl on campus, who could do hair. And you got your shoe polished, and you got your sanitary napkins, and you got your toothpaste, and your soap. It was enough. And stocking, because basically, you wore socks, on Sundays you would wear stockings.	34:24
Tunga White	What kind of events on or off campus did you look forward to-	35:14
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Attending?	35:15
Tunga White	Mm-hmm.	35:15
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Every year, they used to come into Raleigh, an opera. And that was something you would look forward to going to. At St. Aug, when I was there, they didn't have sororities and fraternities, but they had social clubs that you had to have the average, and went through initiation. And in the spring of the year, each one of these would have their spring dance. Some would be on campus, some would be off. And if you were invited — Let's say a young fella was a member of some, but they were going to have their affair off campus. Well, you had to be approved to go, just like if he was going to take you, they had to submit the girl's names. And then they had to be approved.	35:21
Tunga White	By a committee, or [indistinct 00:36:33]-	36:28
Etta Nikpeay Mann	By somebody, a college. I don't know whether it was made up with the dean, or whatnot. So sometimes the boys would kind of hold their breath, until they got the okay that you could go. But that wasn't a problem, because the girls wasn't basically good girls. But this is how it was. Then you had to be back on campus at a certain time. And usually for that, looked like to me, it would be like 12 o'clock	36:33
Tunga White	On Saturday night or Friday nights, what would you all do [indistinct 00:37:23]?	37:17
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well there may be a movie, it may be a basketball game, or it could be a dance, something like that, or a play.	37:23
Tunga White	What year did you graduate?	37:44
Etta Nikpeay Mann	'48.	37:44
Tunga White	After you graduated, what did you decide to do [indistinct 00:37:46]?	37:44
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Okay, when I graduated, you try to get a job and naturally, you want to work at home, but everybody said I was too young. So then my aunt, my mother's sister was married to a contractor in Fort Worth, Texas. So she said, "Come on, and you help Charles in the office." So I went to Fort Worth, Texas, and I was there and then there was a flood in — I believe that flood was '49, I don't know, but it was a bad flood. And my uncle had built 15 little homes, and every one of them was destroyed by the flood. Even where we lived, and all I had was what I had on when I went to work. All my little things I had kept from college, little books, photographs, first little pieces of jewelry, everything was gone. I was a debutante, my dress, everything was all messed up.	37:45
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Now my mother decides that Texas, that slutting place is bad, come home. And that's how I got here, because she knew Mr. Francis, who was the principal then, down at Penn. And he told her he needed a business teacher. She said, "Well, that's what my daughter's doing." He said, "Well, tell her come on." And that's it.	39:29
Tunga White	Let me ask you, you said a lot of people lost their homes, where did they go?	40:02
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, they went to the Coliseum. The Red Cross came in and they set up, and churches opened up. You could just see houses floating. When the water receded and we could go back in, the furniture had become water logged, unglued. And mattresses has floated off the beds, pots and pans stuck to the ceiling, mud everywhere. The wood flooring had all puckled up, where the water was up on the walls. Everything was just ruined.	40:07
Etta Nikpeay Mann	And my uncle, he was featured in Ebony Magazine some years back, because he was an outstanding contractor. He was building — Go to Fort Worth, you'll see schools and hospitals and homes in Fort Worth and Dallas was built by Charles Robinson. And his motto was, "For beauty and durability." That Robinson building had an excellent business, staff, equipment, but he was very innovative. And the idea of homes for people to live in. And he built — it was either 15 or 30 of them. They had two bedrooms, a bath, a living room, kitchen, and a carport. And all of these were destroyed. And he was so devastated, he committed suicide.	41:00
Tunga White	You said there was a writeup for [indistinct 00:42:15] in Ebony?	42:12
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yes. Prior to this, this would be — I'm trying to tell you now, the writeup in Ebony on Uncle Charlie, would've been in maybe about '47, '46, something like that. Because it was before I got there.	42:15
Tunga White	When were you a debutante?	42:43
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I was a debutante in 1948, '49, right after I left St. Aug, because I was 19.	42:50
Tunga White	So you were a debutante, at the Columbia area?	43:07
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, Fort Worth.	43:09
Tunga White	Fort Worth?	43:10
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Mm-hmm.	43:12
Tunga White	So when did you start exactly working back here?	43:26
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I came back here in '50. And when I came back here, I went to Penn. But Penn School itself, was no longer in existence. The state was renting the facilities until the state could build their school, which was St. Helena High School. And then, as you know, in 1970, St. Helena High School was closed, because of integration.	43:30
Tunga White	So were you there until 1970?	44:13
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I was there until 1970	44:18
Tunga White	Integration. What was your opinion about integration, [indistinct 00:44:32] school in 1970?	44:28
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well, you had mixed emotion, because you were accustomed to one way of life. You knew your students, you knew the parents, and you had so much pride in your school. Because we were part of St. Helena from the very beginning. That meant we went out in the community, took a survey so they would know what size school to build. And they could get a projection on who would be entering school, because you counted the babies and everything. And now it broke up relationships, because I was moved from St. Helena to Beaufort High, not as a teacher, but as now as a guidance counselor.	44:35
Etta Nikpeay Mann	And it was your first time of dealing with both Black and White students, as well as Black and White parents. Now, they also closed the other Black high school in Beaufort. That was Robert Smalls. Now all these children are now bused in to Beaufort High. That was the White high school that remained open, but it was not large enough to accommodate the increase in population. So they operated on a double session. That meant that in the mornings, you had your 12th graders, all of your 11th graders and a part of your 10th graders. And they would come until 12:00 sometime, then they would be dismissed. And then the afternoon session would start, which was the —	45:38

Etta Nikpeay Mann	— And you came home. Activities, they maintained the sports. They kept the basketball and the football. But I mean like assembly programs and things of that sort. When we had faculty meeting, it would be if there was a faculty meeting with the two sessions and you would have to go on a little early because I was on the afternoon session.	0:01
Tunga White	How did the do athletics program? With Blacks and Whites on the same team?	0:36
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah, but it ended up being all Black and the band ended up being all Black. Now years have passed, it's a better understanding and now it's mixed. You do have some Whites, but I don't know why they just didn't play.	0:38
Tunga White	During that time, do you think that most of the people who were for integration were the students, young students or the adults?	1:07
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Adults.	1:16
Tunga White	The students were kind of forced the live-	1:16
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh yeah. They would've much rather have things had remained, but it was adults, politics, and then you also had to adhere to the laws. It was a law. Right.	1:25
Tunga White	Was the NAACP really active in this area?	1:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Let's see. Yeah, the NAACP was, but I hope I'm not wrong on this, seems like the NAACP had a chapter out in Burton, but we now had one over on the island.	1:57
Tunga White	How long has that been?	2:09
Etta Nikpeay Mann	What the NAACP?	2:09
Tunga White	The chapter you said.	2:09
Etta Nikpeay Mann	On the island? I don't know.	2:19
Tunga White	After integration was the White Black relationships strained more so than before integration as far as coexisting?	2:30
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I think it was kind of strained afterwards, but this is a unique place. We fared off better than most places in the state because this is a military town and you had people who had lived and gone to school with Whites in other places because the population is made up of people who have lived everywhere. And prior to the schools coming, we worked— What did we do?	2:42
Etta Nikpeay Mann	We had a committee with representatives from the two Black high schools and the White school, our student council, and we met starting during that school year and all during the summer to bring about a smooth transition. And u an exchange of student day before the school year ended. And a group of students from Beaufort High came to St. Helena and went to the classes and vice versa. I think that had a lot to do with it. Then it was decided that in we would let Beaufort High remain Beaufort High School because it would entail so much to have changed their name.	3:22
Etta Nikpeay Mann	But take the present colors, the green and the mascot, the Eagles, that's from St. Helena High School. The green and White was probably the Robert Small's colors. I think that's how the students decided that. Then we had training sessions for our Black and White teachers. We had our guidance department, we did a lot working on relationships with teachers and with students. And we also had something like for parents. But it was not easy. Every day was just a stressed out day. And if at the end of your workday something major had not happened, you just had a sigh relief.	4:24
Etta Nikpeay Mann	But we never had to close the school one day, not a bus was ever turned over like they did up at Lamar and other places and each year it got better and better. And in the meantime to relieve all of this, because you talking about over 1200 students, Battery Creek was built. That's not the new Battery Creek now, the old Battery Creek High School. And that helped a little. And as far as I know, the relationship is about as well as it is anywhere.	6:05
Tunga White	Before the integration how was White and Black relationship on the island?	7:02
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Far as I know, fine.	7:08
Tunga White	Did you ever hear of any instances of violence against Blacks?	7:16
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Before or after?	7:22
Tunga White	Before.	7:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Violence. Any violent incidents? I am almost sure that everything was not peaches and roses, but I don't recall. I don't remember anything. Just really outstanding.	7:25
Tunga White	What about where you grew up?	7:44
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well, the relationship where I grew up in Eastover was just fine. I am sure that it wasn't all just— But I don't know of anything major. As I've told you Eastover is White.	7:45
Tunga White	When did you meet your husband?	8:20
Etta Nikpeay Mann	After I got here in Beaufort.	8:21
Tunga White	What was he doing?	8:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	He was stationed on Air Station. He's in aviation.	8:27
Tunga White	How did you all meet?	8:35
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Through a friend.	8:37
Tunga White	A friend?	8:38
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah.	8:41
Tunga White	What is his name?	8:48
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Earl.	8:48
Tunga White	So how long did you court before?	8:48
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, not very long. I'd say maybe three weeks. It's not that long, but it might sound a little better if you say a month. An	8:57
Tunga White	Is he from North Carolina?	9:08
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No. No, he's from Richmond, Virginia.	9:14
Tunga White	Is that where he was born?	9:18
Etta Nikpeay Mann	He was born in Washington, North Carolina.	9:19
Tunga White	Oh [indistinct 00:09:28].	9:26
Etta Nikpeay Mann	But a nice little— Pretty.	9:28
Tunga White	Where did you get married?	9:36
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Well right here in Beaufort up at the courthouse.	9:38
Tunga White	How did he propose to you?	9:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I guess he just said, "Will you marry me?" I guess I said, "Yeah, if that'll make you happy."	9:47
Tunga White	After getting married-	10:03
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Then after we got married, we went out to military housing. That's Laura Bay, and we went out there and then Earl got orders for Japan. And then at that time, the military did not permit you to remain in housing and your husband was on assignment, so then I moved and rented from Mr. Francis who lived right down the road. Then Earl returned and we went back out to Larvae. Then after sometimes went by, he got orders for Hawaii and then I could go to Hawaii. So then we went to Hawaii. That was in '63 I think. I don't know.	10:03
Tunga White	So Hawaii is beautiful as the pictures?	11:15
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh yes it was. And then while we were in Hawaii, my first son was born. Earl, his name is Earl.	11:19
Tunga White	That was in '63?	11:31
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, Earl was born in— Isn't this ridiculous? Earl was born in '67.	11:37
Tunga White	And then you had another child?	11:47
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh yeah. Then when Earl came back from Vietnam, we came back to Larvae. And then Eric was born and Eric was born over here at the Naval Hospital.	11:58
Tunga White	What year was that?	12:25
Etta Nikpeay Mann	'69.	12:26
Tunga White	And in Hawaii, were you in Honolulu or where was he born?	12:26
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Earl was born at Triple Hospital, but we were at Kaneohe, K-A-N-E-O-H-E. And then my husband was getting orders to go back to Vietnam and he said no, he wouldn't do that. So then that was when he got out, he retired. He had enough time in and he could retire. And we were trying to decide well where we are going to live. So in the meantime, we bought a mobile home and lived over here in Austin's trailer park and we decided we would build, so we built this house and we've been here ever since.	12:37
Tunga White	What year did you guys build this house?	13:28
Etta Nikpeay Mann	We built this house in 60— [indistinct 00:13:34].	13:32
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Eric was the baby. We must have come here in '69 or '70.	13:33
Tunga White	Do you have any grandchildren?	13:51
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Both of my boys are single and the oldest boy is an officer in the Marines stationed at Quantico. And the youngest boy is in Washington with the Commission of Civil Rights.	14:01
Tunga White	And he was born?	14:30
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Where? Eric? Here out at the Naval Hospital.	14:33
Tunga White	The Naval Hospital on which island?	14:41
Etta Nikpeay Mann	It's in Port Royal.	14:45
Tunga White	Okay.	14:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	That's it?	14:46
Tunga White	I'm just going to ask you a couple more questions for the form.	14:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Okay.	14:46
Tunga White	What is your date of birth?	14:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	May 6th, 1928.	14:46
Tunga White	And your address here?	15:12
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Star Route Six, box 313, Beaufort. But we are going to be getting a new address and I believe it's going to be 157 Meridian Road, and that won't be for another, I think, 30 days. Something like that.	15:13
Tunga White	And what's your zip code?	15:40
Etta Nikpeay Mann	29902.	15:40
Tunga White	And your place of birth was Eastover?	15:54
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Eastover.	15:54
Tunga White	What's the county?	15:54
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Richland.	15:54
Tunga White	And what's your husband's full name?	15:54
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Earl Taylor Man, Senior.	16:08
Tunga White	And his place of birth was?	16:16
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Washington, North Carolina.	16:18
Tunga White	Do you know what county that is?	16:21
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I sure don't.	16:25
Tunga White	[indistinct 00:16:30].	16:26
Etta Nikpeay Mann	June 20th, 1930.	16:31
Tunga White	Since his retirement from the military has he had any other [indistinct 00:16:44].	16:38
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah. He worked out at Blake and Johnson until they moved to Connecticut and he didn't want to go there. They make nuts and bolts for one of these automobile thing.	16:43
Tunga White	What's your mother's full name?	17:07
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Corinne, C-O-R-I-N-N-E Robinson Nickpey, N-I-C-K-P-E-Y.	17:08
Tunga White	And do you know her date of birth?	17:17
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Oh, my mother was born— I can get that.	17:17
Tunga White	Okay.	17:17
Etta Nikpeay Mann	[indistinct 00:17:57] slave that my grandfather or whoever had. [indistinct 00:18:13].	17:17
Tunga White	Do you know the year of her birth on her death?	18:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	August 7th [indistinct 00:18:25].	18:25
Tunga White	What was your father's full name?	18:25
Etta Nikpeay Mann	[indistinct 00:18:59].	18:25
Tunga White	Your mother's middle name. What was that? Did she have a middle name? That's her maiden name.	18:59
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Bernell. B-E-R-N-E-L-L.	20:09
Tunga White	Do you know your father's birthday?	20:09
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I know he was born in 1900s and I believe his birthday [indistinct 00:20:10]. I can't think of what day he died on [indistinct 00:20:16]. Because he died on his sister's birthday and my mother died on her sister's birthday.	20:23
Tunga White	How old was your father when he died?	20:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	My father 67. My mother was 76.	20:23
Tunga White	[indistinct 00:21:03].	20:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	[indistinct 00:21:09] May '32. [indistinct 00:21:18].	20:23
Tunga White	Your brother, what was his name?	20:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	My brother's name? [indistinct 00:21:39].	20:23
Tunga White	And do you know his birthday?	20:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	February 2nd, 1930.	20:23
Tunga White	Is he still alive?	20:23
Etta Nikpeay Mann	No, he died May of '85.	20:23
Tunga White	For your sons, Earl and Eric, can I get their the month and the date of their birthday?	22:33
Etta Nikpeay Mann	[indistinct 00:22:45].	22:37
Tunga White	You said you went off to school, you left home for school and you stayed at school from seventh grade to 12th grade, then you moved on to St. [indistinct 00:23:31]. Then you went there, then you went to Fort Worth. And then you stayed in Fort Worth how long?	23:21
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Two years.	23:31
Tunga White	So when you were a counselor at the schools here in Buford, did you have any other jobs after that?	23:43
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Yeah. No, I was still counseling, but I went to another school.	24:16
Tunga White	But you never held a different job?	24:30
Etta Nikpeay Mann	And when you were working in Fort Worth, what was the job title?	24:30
Tunga White	[indistinct 00:24:39].	24:43
Tunga White	Are there any organizations, community organizations, city or political that you remember [indistinct 00:24:55]?	24:43
Etta Nikpeay Mann	[indistinct 00:25:46].	24:46
Tunga White	How long you been involved with [indistinct 00:26:31]?	24:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	[indistinct 00:26:39].	24:46
Tunga White	[indistinct 00:26:43].	24:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	[indistinct 00:26:49].	24:46
Tunga White	Any other organizations? Have you received any awards or honors?	24:46
Etta Nikpeay Mann	Countless. [indistinct 00:27:39].	24:46
Tunga White	Do you have any hobbies, interests or activities that you involve in that you like?	27:40
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I like [indistinct 00:27:56] and ceramics. [indistinct 00:27:59] hobby shop and [indistinct 00:28:03]. I used to do a little crocheting, but my eyes [indistinct 00:28:19].	28:01
Tunga White	Do you have any favorite saying or quotes or phrases?	28:24
Etta Nikpeay Mann	I'm mad because there's one I always tell my boys to brush their teeth [indistinct 00:28:46] and this is my favorite saying oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.	28:25
Tunga White	Is there a church you're a member of right now?	28:25
Etta Nikpeay Mann	[indistinct 00:29:32].	28:25
Tunga White	That's it. All I need you to do for me. Now you can take a look at, this is just the interview agreement. It says that you'll open this up to be used for scholarly purposes. You can place any restrictions you'd like to have on it also.	29:31

Item Info

Title:

Etta Mann interview recording, 1994 August 05

Date:

August 5, 1994

Creator:

Mann, Etta Nickpeay

Contributor:

White, Tunga

Description:

Name: Etta Nikpeay Mann; Date of birth: 1928-05-06; Place of birth: Eastover, SC; Occupation(s): educator; Residence: Beaufort, SC
Informant ID: 426; Interviewed by: Tunga White.

Occupation:

Educator

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-1448
RL00170-CS-1449
d1cbe955-e30f-4031-83e9-d1ab5c4653ec
behindtheveil
aabdc372-255d-4cc2-a3e4-abb8c8ac0f12
ark:/87924/r4rr21w7p
aabdc372-255d-4cc2-a3e4-abb8c8ac0f12

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Etta Mann interview recording, 1994 August 05

Transcript

Item Info

1. Etta Mann administrative file, 1994

2. Etta Mann slides: "Family" album page with a photo of Etta Mann's father and several other unidentified photographs [slight close-up of several photos on album page in image 015], circa 1910s-1940s

3. Etta Mann slides: Color photo: Webber School students, circa 1910s-1940s

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Transcript

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