Gracia Dawson interview recording, 1994 July 21

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Tunga White	Testing.	0:01
Gracia Dawson	—okay, we're good—	0:01
Tunga White	Okay, Mrs. Dawson. Can you tell me what you remember about your grandparents?	0:08
Gracia Dawson	Well there's very little that I remember about my grandparents, especially—In fact, I don't know anything about my grandparents on my father's side, but I do remember my grandmother on my mother's side. She lived in Beaufort, South Carolina and her name was Mariah Farr.	0:11
Tunga White	How do you spell her last name?	0:30
Gracia Dawson	F-A-R-R.	0:30
Tunga White	Okay. The reason why you don't recall your paternal grandparents, did they die early?	0:31
Gracia Dawson	They died while my father was very young, and I don't think he recalled very much from the—My grandfather from my father's side was of German descent.	0:49
Tunga White	Okay.	1:01
Gracia Dawson	The name Watermann is German, and that's spelled with two n's. My father was from Charleston originally, and my mother was from Beaufort, South Carolina. My father worked as a tailor on Paris Island for many years making uniforms, and he later moved from Beaufort to Orangeburg where he was employed in South Carolina State College.	1:03
Tunga White	Do you know why he moved from there?	1:38
Gracia Dawson	It was a better offer.	1:40
Tunga White	Oh, better offer.	1:40
Gracia Dawson	This move was made in the year of 1908, he came here under the first President of the College, Miller. Thomas Miller, pardon me. He served under Thomas E. Miller, under Robert Shaw Wilkinson and Miller F. Whittaker.	1:43
Tunga White	Okay.	2:12
Gracia Dawson	We lived on the college campus on the lower part of the campus, which was called the farm area. I was born in a house on the campus. During those days where we lived the sidewalks were not paved, the streets were not paved and I can recall as a child. When we got skates for Christmas, we asked to go up on campus so that we could skate on the sidewalks or ride the bicycles that we had. There were three of us, I had one sister, Edith Watermann and one brother Charles Watermann, I was the baby of the family. I attended the Felton Laboratory School at State and also Claflin Elementary School. At those days state and Claflin had high schools.	2:17
Tunga White	Okay.	3:19
Gracia Dawson	I graduated from the last high school class that South Carolina State College had. After graduation from high school I entered college here.	3:22
Tunga White	Before we move on to college, can you describe the way the campus looked all?	3:35
Gracia Dawson	Well, it's an entirely different—Now, as I said the area that we lived on. During those years, you see state at that time was predominantly an agricultural and mechanical college because it was a land grant college. Of course down where we lived, we had cotton fields and all of us picked cotton at one time. We had the dairy, we had the barn with the cows and we had chicken farms, peach orchards. What else did we have? We had gardens of course.	3:43
Tunga White	Now all these, like the chicken farm and the dairy and the orchard, everything was used for the students?	4:19
Gracia Dawson	Well, it was used for the students and I think they may have sold some and then it was a part of the agriculture. See, we had agriculture and home economics at that time.	4:28
Tunga White	Okay.	4:35
Gracia Dawson	So it was used in conjunction with those areas also.	4:36
Tunga White	You said you picked cotton?	4:45
Gracia Dawson	Yes, we got paid. I've forgotten how much we got paid, but we didn't pick that much. But all of us, the children that lived in that area had the experience of going in the fields and we had the bags that we put on our shoulders, and we picked cotton and it was weighed and we were paid.	4:46
Tunga White	Would you pick it on the weekends?	5:07
Gracia Dawson	No particular time. It wasn't a regular routine for us, but it was just something that we did every now and then.	5:10
Tunga White	Every now—	5:17
Gracia Dawson	Yeah, every now and then. It wasn't a regular chore. It wasn't anything that we had to do.	5:17
Tunga White	Okay. It was just something you opted to do?	5:23
Gracia Dawson	Do, right.	5:23
Tunga White	Okay.	5:23
Gracia Dawson	Then as I said, when I graduated from high school I went on to college at state and I graduated with a BS in education, a major in English. While attending state college during my senior year I was crowned Miss South Carolina State College, that was the year of 1936, 37 and I was also chosen May Queen. At that time we used to have a big celebration here during those times, that was quite a tailored affair but we don't have that anymore.	5:27
Tunga White	Well, describe the celebration.	6:09
Gracia Dawson	The May Queen celebration, I think if I remember correctly each class sponsored a contestant and of course it was also sponsored by the YWCA, and it was a money making project for the Y. We sold votes, and I think you sold a picture of the votes were about 5 cents a piece and I raised the highest amount of money for that affair and of course we had the regular May Day celebration with the court and the entertainment of the members of the court. As I said, I was crowned Miss State College and of course, one thing I can say my crowning in 1936, 37 is quite different from how it is today.	6:11
Tunga White	In what way?	7:06
Gracia Dawson	That during those days you were selected by the student body. You had what you call the student body organization and persons just from the floor nominated individuals to strive for this honor, and of course the one with the highest votes received this honor. Now today I think the procedure is, I think there's a committee and you have to have a certain scholastic average.	7:06
Tunga White	Right.	7:37
Gracia Dawson	I think there's a committee that I think the students do suggest possible candidates, and usually your sororities and what will sponsor certain girls and they have a regular voting for that. The one that gets the highest number of votes is crowned Miss South Carolina State College. Now, of course the crowning is really an extravaganza. It's just almost like the crowning of Miss America.	7:38
Tunga White	Really?	8:08
Gracia Dawson	The decorations and the atmosphere is just beautiful. I am the oldest Miss State College living, and I am still participating in the coronations which usually take place either the latter part of September or the first part of October. So I am looking forward to making another appearance this year if I'm able to.	8:09
Tunga White	Yes. What organizations were you a member of when you were in college?	8:40
Gracia Dawson	Well, now during those days they did not have the sororities. So I went into—The Deltas came before I graduated, but I was interested in Alpha Kappa Alpha. So I joined Alpha Kappa Alpha graduate chapter about two days after I graduated from South Carolina State. Well, I started out—Let's see, we had some clubs at that time but they were just a little more or less social clubs. I think that's about the extent of participation in extracurricular activities.	8:44
Tunga White	Now did you live in dormitories or did you live at home?	9:29
Gracia Dawson	I lived at home.	9:31
Tunga White	Did you ever want to live in the dormitories?	9:33
Gracia Dawson	Well listen, when we were growing up we used to always say when we were young. We wished our daddy would get a job someplace else where we could live someplace else because we are just here on the campus all the time.	9:35
Tunga White	Right.	9:45
Gracia Dawson	So I looked forward to going away when I graduated from college. So after graduating from state I went to Hampton Institute, 37, 38 and I received my BS and library science degree from Hampton Institute. I'll have to back up a minute. When I was a junior at South Carolina State my husband came to State from Cleveland Ohio to help coach, and at that time I was a junior and we started courting.	9:46
Tunga White	Tell me about it.	10:24
Gracia Dawson	Well, I don't know whether there was a rule that faculty and students generally did not, of course—but I had an advantage by not being on the campus—well, I was on the campus but not in the dormitory.	10:24
Tunga White	Right.	10:37
Gracia Dawson	So we met in 1935 and we courted, and when I graduated in—Oh, well we went to social affairs on the campus. Those days a lot of the social clubs had dances and we went, now that was in 35 here when he came and of course he coached five sports at the college, and of course naturally I was an avid spectator of sports.	10:38
Tunga White	Had to be, had to be.	11:10
Gracia Dawson	So football games became very important, basketball games and when I graduated I went to Hampton and stayed the one—As I told you, I received my degree in library science. Came back and was employed at State College, and that would be 1938, 39 and I was in the circulation department at the Miller F. Whittaker Library. Worked for two years, and we got married in 1940.	11:12
Tunga White	How did he propose to you?	11:45
Gracia Dawson	Now, now, that's been a mighty long time ago. I don't know that I even—I think he proposed before I really went to Hampton. In fact, he was not too particular about me going to away to school. But that was an understanding that had been planned, and those were the days when whatever you had planned and you decided you went through with.	11:49
Tunga White	Right.	12:12
Gracia Dawson	So that was decided before he even came here. So we went through with the plans that I would go to Hampton and come back. When I married State College had a rule at that time that husbands and wives could not both be employed at this college. So naturally I had to give up my job.	12:12
Tunga White	Wow.	12:30
Gracia Dawson	So the next year I was hired in the public school system at Wilkinson High School. I was supposed to be hired as a sub, but I subbed every day and stayed there the whole year and helped to set up a library at Wilkinson. After the one year at Wilkinson I was then employed over at Claflin College, which had joined State College and that's a Methodist college as head library.	12:32
Tunga White	Now, how did Claflin come about?	13:00
Gracia Dawson	Well, now Claflin was here before state.	13:03
Tunga White	Oh, it was?	13:05
Gracia Dawson	State became a part out of Claflin, that's in the history. But Claflin was here much earlier than State and I think I stayed over to Claflin about seven or eight years and some years later they rescinded that rule and I was allowed to come. I was rehired at State College. I came back and I taught in the library science department that we had here at that time. The head of that department was away studying so I was in that position for only one year. Then I returned to the regular little Miller F. Whittaker Library and at that time I entered into the reference in serials department from which I retired.	13:06
Tunga White	I wanted to ask you one question, I just thought about it.	13:59
Gracia Dawson	What is that?	14:02
Tunga White	Being a young girl, growing up on campus, how was your father towards that you had college boys on the campus and you were young, just growing up teenagers, 16?	14:02
Gracia Dawson	Well, remember now we had a high school there too at that time.	14:16
Tunga White	Right.	14:19
Gracia Dawson	So you stayed within your group. You stayed within your group and with high schools you weren't dabbling and socializing with the college. In fact, you wouldn't have been allowed to go to the affairs anyway unless you were a part of the college.	14:21
Tunga White	So you didn't get a chance to go out with any college—aged boys when you were—	14:36
Gracia Dawson	Oh yes, I went with some college—aged boys before my husband Robby—	14:41
Tunga White	Before you got—	14:49
Gracia Dawson	No, no, no, not until I got into college.	14:49
Tunga White	Okay.	14:51
Gracia Dawson	Now back to my father. As I said, he was instructor of the tailoring department and during his tenure he made clothing for all of the governors of South Carolina. From Blease down through Strom Thurmond, and I can recall meeting Strom Thurmond in my father's tailor shop. That was the place where the politicking went on and that this type of work that he did was for gratis.	14:52
Gracia Dawson	But these dignitaries from the governor on down would come to the tailor shop and the president, he would make the appointments for them. Then while my father's measuring and whatnot, the president would be politicking for State College. As I said, I met Strom Thurmond and his first wife, Jean in the tailor shop. My father made twin white suits for their trousseau and I have letters today in my possession from Strom thanking my father for the garments that he made for them.	15:29
Tunga White	What years did your father work at the school?	16:11
Gracia Dawson	From 1908, down through 40 what? What would that be? I'll have to look that up, you can edit. I'll have to look that up. I think I saw a note in there about his retirement.	16:15
Tunga White	All right, we'll look that up. What was your mother doing?	16:39
Gracia Dawson	All right, my mother was a helpmate to my father. She took tailoring from him and she ended up—When my father retired, she took over heading the tailoring department. But my father he still stayed there, although it was time for him to retire. So she worked side by side with him. I can recall when we were children growing up, when we would come home from school she would always stay home until we got home from school. She would give us our chores, she would tell us what we could have for lunch until she would come back in and she would go to the tailor shop and work with my father. Because in addition to teaching tailoring he worked after hours sewing for people in the community. Mostly the prominent people of the community to subsidize the salary in order to maintain his family. So they would work and come home sometimes 8:00 or 9:00 in the evenings.	16:39
Tunga White	Now, can you recall any of the names? Some of the prominent people in the community that he would work—	17:51
Gracia Dawson	Solicitor Julian Wolfe, Dr. [indistinct 00:18:10], Dr. [indistinct 00:18:10]. What else can I think of? I have in my possession letters from some other of the members from the legislature that he made clothing for to in addition to the governors.	17:59
Tunga White	So it was governor and legislature?	18:32
Gracia Dawson	Yes.	18:34
Tunga White	Now, how did he get that honor of being able to work for all the governors?	18:38
Gracia Dawson	Because this was a state college and he made clothing for them free.	18:46
Tunga White	So they just use this tailor—	18:52
Gracia Dawson	Likewise, during those days every Christmas I can remember that the home economics department made fruitcakes for all of the trustees and during those years, your trustee board was made up of all White members.	19:00
Tunga White	Now you said your mother would work with him after you all—	19:26
Gracia Dawson	We would come home from school.	19:30
Tunga White	And gave you chores.	19:36
Gracia Dawson	Yes.	19:39
Tunga White	What kind of chores did you have to do?	19:39
Gracia Dawson	Ironing, dusting and then of course you had so much time too, you were supposed to be studying your lessons. But we had regular household chores raking the yard, quite different from now. But even at the college itself back in those days the students did chores for the college. I can remember the boys used to do campus duty, raking the campus and the girls had certain chores, helping in the dining hall and whatnot. I think some of them might have done some of the laundry, but in the early days they had chores to do at the college. You had study hours, the lights went out at a certain time at night.	19:40
Tunga White	Study hours—	20:30
Gracia Dawson	Seems to me it was somewhere from around 7:00 to 9:00 and you had quiet hours on Sunday where everybody had to be in the dormitories off the campus.	20:31
Tunga White	You had curfews too?	20:45
Gracia Dawson	Oh yeah, and then of course students had to be chaperoned when they went off of the campus and then you had a difference in the regulations for your different classes. Quite different from now, freshmen come in and have just about the same privileges as all of the others.	20:46
Tunga White	Right.	21:02
Gracia Dawson	But during those days you gained privileges as you went up in your classes, in the—	21:02
Tunga White	What could a senior do that a freshman candidate?	21:09
Gracia Dawson	Well probably go off campus unescorted would be one thing I would imagine. In the early days too, the students wore uniforms. The girls did, white mini blouse and blue skirts.	21:13
Tunga White	So the boys didn't have?	21:36
Gracia Dawson	The boys didn't have uniform, no. You had some dress codes, there was certain affairs that you went to you know boys, you had to have on shirt and ties. We used to have Vesper every Sunday evening, used to have prayer meetings on Wednesday night, used to have Sunday school on Sunday. All of those things have passed away.	21:37
Tunga White	There were all the—Regardless of classification, were you required to go?	22:03
Gracia Dawson	Yes. You had an assigned seat for chapel.	22:08
Tunga White	Really?	22:13
Gracia Dawson	In Vespers, and they had people that checked and of course during those days you had demerit system too.	22:14
Tunga White	Now what would happen let's say you skipped?	22:25
Gracia Dawson	Well I don't remember how many—So many demerits where you would be expelled, dismissed from the college. I don't recall now how many it was. So now we are back to when we got married.	22:30
Tunga White	Right.	22:52
Gracia Dawson	We married in 1940 and remarried on a little building on the campus that is still located, and that was originally called the Y Hut. But I think they use it more for recreational purposes now.	22:53
Tunga White	Okay.	23:09
Gracia Dawson	But we married on campus.	23:10
Tunga White	What was it used for when you all went there?	23:12
Gracia Dawson	It was for the YWCA building.	23:13
Tunga White	Okay. Who married you all?	23:13
Gracia Dawson	The pastor from St. Luke Presbyterian Church. It must've been Reverend Ayers, I guess, at that time. I'm not sure about the pastor's name at that time, I think it was Reverend Ayers. I'd have to look on the certificate to verify that.	23:24
Tunga White	Do you still have your wedding certificate?	23:44
Gracia Dawson	Yeah, I think I have that here in my file. I do.	23:46
Tunga White	Now, how many attendance's—	23:46
Gracia Dawson	It was a very small wedding. I only had one bridesmaid and two flower girls and that was it and I was given by my father who was still living then.	23:53
Tunga White	Now I'm sure that, that was a big deal at that time the coach marrying—	24:14
Gracia Dawson	A student. A former.	24:17
Tunga White	I mean a big celebration not a big controversy, but the fact that you were a former queen for the college and then the coach. Was it a big celebration throughout the campus?	24:23
Gracia Dawson	Not really, it wasn't all that big. It was just like any other community wedding, I think we sent out maybe about 400 invitations and the reception was at my parents' house.	24:36
Tunga White	Did many couples get married?	25:08
Gracia Dawson	In the Y Hut? My sister married there the year ahead of me.	25:11
Tunga White	Okay.	25:14
Gracia Dawson	I don't recall anyone else. Yes, I do. [indistinct 00:25:28] niece I think it was got married there some years later.	25:19
Tunga White	Now, after y'all got married did you move?	25:41
Gracia Dawson	After we already had a house that was built by Boulevard that we moved into, that we rented. We went to Cleveland for our Honeymoon which was my husband's home and as I said then we came back. I was not employed immediately, but as the year went on that was the year that I went over to the high school to work and he resumed his regular duties at the college and both of us worked there until we retired.	25:43
Gracia Dawson	We have one daughter Maria, and she's married now and to William James, they live in Eerwyn, E-E-R-W-Y-N in Pennsylvania. He's employed at Villanova University as a professor of law and law librarian. We have two grandsons, Kevin James who is enrolled at Villanova University and Christopher James who is enrolled at Lincoln University, Pennsylvania and my daughter Maria is working on her master's degree at Villanova University.	26:20
Tunga White	Now does she have a middle name?	27:18
Gracia Dawson	Well, she uses Dawson but she has my name in reverse. My name is Gracia Maria and hers is Maria Gracia.	27:19
Tunga White	Oh, okay. Dawson [indistinct 00:27:36]. Now, see that wasn't so bad was it?	27:24
Gracia Dawson	Not so bad. You sure—	27:40

Item Info

Title:

Gracia Dawson interview recording, 1994 July 21

Date:

July 21, 1994

Creator:

Dawson, Gracia

Contributor:

White, Tunga

Description:

Name: Gracia Dawson; Date of birth: 1915-12-06; Place of birth: Orangeburg, SC; Occupation(s): librarian; Residence: Orangeburg, SC
Informant ID: 486; Interviewed by: Tunga White.

Occupation:

Librarian

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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