William Battle interview recording, 1994 June 24

Download
- Rights
- Limited Re-Use
  CC BY-NC 4.0
  More Rights Info
- Files (2)
- MP3 Part 1
- MP3 Part 2
- Please be patient with media downloads. They are often large files.
Share

Embed Code
<iframe src='https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r48p66j68?embed=true' height='125px' width='100%' frameborder='0' marginwidth='0' marginheight='0' scrolling='no' loading='lazy' allowfullscreen></iframe>
Permalink

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r48p66j68
Skip to Item Info

Loading the media player...

Files for this Item

Transcript

Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.

Tywanna Whorley	One, two, three. Testing. Question is, what is your name?	0:02
William James Battle	William J. Battle.	0:09
Tywanna Whorley	William. What year were you born?	0:09
William James Battle	Born July 1st, 1913.	0:09
Tywanna Whorley	1913? Do you remember anything about your grandparents?	0:14
William James Battle	Oh, yes.	0:19
Tywanna Whorley	Can you tell me about them?	0:21
William James Battle	Oh, okay. On our paternal side, I can trace my ancestors back three generation.	0:25
Tywanna Whorley	Really?	0:34
William James Battle	My great grandfather was born around about 1822 and he died around 1923, and I was 10 years old. And he used to walk from — Of course, you don't know too much about Birmingham, but he used to walk from where he lived to where we lived. And I would imagine that's about five or six miles one way. And my grandfather was born, he told us nine years before surrender. And what they meant by that is that— Actually they didn't know. But when it was told to me, well, I said surrender, it was 1865. And if you were born nine years, that made you born 1856. And he was a strong man, spiritually, physically, and every otherwise.	0:35
William James Battle	He lived in a day and an age when most Black people feared White. But my grandfather was a man that didn't fear anybody. I mean White people gave him respect. And he was something similar to Paul. When he was a sinner, he was a hard sinner. And he mistreated people, he cursed them out. And somebody got to him. And in his search for peace, and for Jesus, some of the people who he had cursed out were dead and gone, he went to their graves to beg pardon. I mean it wasn't anything that they could do, but that was the depths of his conviction. And when he became a Christian, he was just as strongly a Christian as he was a sinner. He was a man that I highly respected, and I used to visit him, and he would tell me about things and situations that he had come through, and they were really very interesting.	1:39
William James Battle	And on my maternal side, my grandfather was a very gentle man. He was a deacon in the church at Midway, Alabama. And he was the father of four girls, and one boy. And my mother used to tell me how they had to work in the field, had to plow because the boy was the baby, and the girls that preceded him, they had to do the work of boys.	3:00
William James Battle	And my maternal grandmother was a very, very religious, very kind person. Everybody liked her. And she looked like she was White. In fact, my grandfather had to ask the White people in the place where they were staying, he had to ask them for permission to marry her. And she said that she didn't bit more love grandpa and anything, but she wanted to get off of the White people farm. But she learned to love my grandfather. And she died 1918 when the flu epidemic was sweeping this country.	3:35
William James Battle	1918, people were just dying everywhere. And she came up here, Birmingham, to wait on my mother and me. We had the flu. And she took it and they took her to one of her other daughters. In a few days she passed. And I'm very proud of my grandparents because they were people worthy of emulating. And they had those principles, and they were passed down to us. And we, in this present generation, were able to live by those principles, the most of us. And they were really the guidepost of our lives.	4:26
Tywanna Whorley	Okay. And your grandfather on your father's side, what was his name?	5:24
William James Battle	His name was Arthur, Arthur Battle.	5:28
Tywanna Whorley	You said he told you about some of the things that he went through. Do you remember any of them?	5:32
William James Battle	Well, he said at one time he owned more property in southeast Alabama around Eufaula. And the governor to be, at that time, was B.B. Comer. And he worked on my grandfather's plantation. And of course by my great-grandfather not having no education, they finally beat him out of what he had, and this kind of thing. That stands out more in my mind than anything.	5:36
Tywanna Whorley	Did he ever talk about owning this land? How he managed to.	6:20
William James Battle	Now that's one thing. I don't know how he came about it. He may have paid for it, and he had tenants living on it. And they say that he ran a hundred plows. That meant that he had enough land to work a hundred people at one time. And the Comer people who were the owners of the Alabama Mill, textile. And as long as any Battle live they would take care of them. And that say something, that they felt maybe remorseful for beating him out of all of his land.	6:29
Tywanna Whorley	Did he ever talk about his father?	7:27
William James Battle	No. No. He didn't. He didn't talk about his father. But from what my grandfather said, the Battle clan, put it like that, they all lived in that particular area. And it was called Old Spring Hill. And all of the Battles at that time, they lived in that area. And no doubt his father, my great grandfather's father, lived there also. And they were all Black people.	7:28
Tywanna Whorley	Really?	8:11
William James Battle	Really. Now my maternal grandmother, and paternal grandmother, their fathers were White. And that accounted for, I have a light complexion. But both my grandfathers came from predominant Black people.	8:13
Tywanna Whorley	You said your great-grandfather used to visit you here in Birmingham. Where did you live?	8:39
William James Battle	We lived in Titusville, that's kind of southeast of where we are. This is north side, and that's south side. And he was living with his youngest daughter, and she lived what we called upper south side. And he liked my mother, and he used to walk over there to where we live, whenever he got ready. He was a little short dark fella and very, very alert. And at that time he was a hundred years old.	8:44
Tywanna Whorley	Can you talk about the neighborhood that you lived in? Was it predominantly Black, the neighborhood, that you lived in, in Titusville?	9:29
William James Battle	Oh yes, yes. It was predominantly Black. And we lived in what they call a shotgun house. You ever heard that expression?	9:36
Tywanna Whorley	Yes.	9:49
William James Battle	It was a three-room shotgun house. And we lived there a couple of years. And from 1919 to 1921, 1921, they moved to Woodlawn, where I'm living now. And of course I'm married, and I moved out in the same neighborhood.	9:49
Tywanna Whorley	What did your mom do for a living?	10:14
William James Battle	My mother?	10:15
Tywanna Whorley	Yeah.	10:15
William James Battle	She was just a housewife. And at that time, they took in washing for White people. And if you could iron white shirts, you really would have more work than you could do. Because it really was an art to see those people iron white shirts and not scorch them, and not even have any what they call cat faces. That was wrinkles. I mean it was just as smooth and professional as anything you would've ever seen. And it wasn't too many Black people that could do that. But those that could, they had more than they could do.	10:16
William James Battle	And when I married, my wife was the only child, and I stayed with them. And my mother-in-law was the same way. She could really iron white shirts. I'm telling you. I'm sorry my wife wasn't interested in learning how. But my mother was a good cook, and my mother-in-law was a good cook. I talk about my mother-in-law so much, a lot of people say, "Well, she must have been an extraordinary person." But she was. My life was made better by having been in her company. And she died in 1968. She was not quite 73 years old, but she was somebody's person, I'm telling you the truth.	11:03
William James Battle	And she had some Indian in her. And she didn't talk much. Well some people misunderstood her, they thought she was mean. And if you ever studied or anything about the Indians, they were people that wasn't too much on conversation. And then she was, give you a little light side of her. And she would work for them, do day work. You know what I mean by a day worker? Work for this lady a day, and then for another lady a day. And when she'd go there to work, she find out what the lady expected of her. She tell her, she go about it. And so one of the ladies say, "Evelyn, you don't talk much." She said, "The Colored people that I've had, they always kept a conversation, what's going on in the neighborhood?" She said, "Well, I didn't come here to talk. I came here to work."	12:00
William James Battle	And she made a vow with herself in those early years that she was going to make it possible for her daughter to never have to go in a White person's kitchen. And she really did that. My wife, she majored in music, she has a master from University of Michigan in music. And she taught in the school system here, I believe it was about 31 or 32 years. And if I have to say so myself, she was good. She could train choir.	13:10
William James Battle	We had one of the best choirs in Birmingham. And our daughter came on in her footsteps and she graduated from Fisk. And she has a talent of teaching, especially young people. Oh, she has a way, I'm telling you the truth. And her first teaching job, the very first year she went there to take the place of a music teacher that was on maternity leave. So when that year was up, the superintendent's wife told superintendent, the superintendent's wife also was a music major. She told her husband, "Find something for the teacher that's on maternity. You need to keep this young lady here." And she stayed there for quite a few years.	13:52
Tywanna Whorley	Do you remember how much your mother made ironing shirts and taking in washing?	14:55
William James Battle	Oh, you wouldn't believe it. But depending upon the number of shirts that she ironed, it wasn't over $2 or $3. And she maybe would've ironed seven or eight shirts.	14:59
Tywanna Whorley	Was that a week?	15:17
William James Battle	No, a day. It would take a day to iron. Well, the bigger portion of a day, to iron seven, eight, or 10 shirts.	15:19
Tywanna Whorley	So she had to wash them too?	15:31
William James Battle	Oh yeah, she had to wash them. In fact, we all had to wash. Have you ever seen that old rubboard that they used for it? Okay, well the system that they used, you first wash them through the first water, and then you would put them in a pot. Let's see. You wash them, and I believe you would wash them through another water, and put them in a pot and boil them with detergent. And when they came out of that boiling process, then you had to kind of wash them on the bowl a little more, and rinsed them in at least a cup of washing. And they would put blue in it.	15:33
William James Battle	They made their starch. Yes, they made their starch. And that was an art, because if the starch was lumpy, then they would have effect up on the shirt. And the reason I say it was not, they would have some pine straw on the ironing board. And when they take that smoothing iron off the furnace, they would wipe it on that pine straw, and then wipe the iron off. The way they'd test the iron and see whether or not it was too hot, they would do like that and then touch the iron. Now I don't know what transpired, but if that iron was too hot, they would know it by that touch. And never saw the print of an iron on those shirts. And like I was telling you, everybody couldn't do it. And where I lived, my mother-in-law, as I told you, was real good.	16:37
William James Battle	And we had a neighbor next door, that he would admire my shirts. He had a kind of a jealous wife because she thought that whatever she cooked, whatever she did, was superior to us. They kind of looked down on us, because of the fact he was a letter carrier, and he was making more money than I was. I was a laborer at the Southern Shop. And so he finally persuaded his wife to let my mother-in-law iron his shirts. And he was a proud brother, I'm telling you, because they were superior to the workmanship of the laundry. I don't like laundry done shirts. Right now, we have a lady that comes every other week. She does a pretty nice job. Because the laundry shirts always to me look kind of dingy. But when they're hand washed, they have a fresh look to them, and I've been spoiled.	17:52
Tywanna Whorley	What about your father?	19:17
William James Battle	My father he worked at the railroad. That's how I got the job working at the Southern Railroad Shop. He was more or less country-oriented. What I mean by that is that his attitude and his approaches was country. That's about as good as I can state. And he had a brother that worked there too. He was progressive, and he would get things in the house for his wife. But Papa, you ought be satisfied with just the necessities, things like that.	19:18
William James Battle	That was the difference. But he was a disciplinarian, and I mean a hard disciplinarian. He thought that children should be in the yard before the sun go down. Now that was the custom in the country. But I mean that was his law. And well, it didn't bother me so much, but it sure now bothered my brother and my sisters. I was the oldest. And I was always passive, and I loved my mother. And I made it my business to try to please her at all time from a youth up.	20:21
William James Battle	And when she passed 10 years ago, well, I was able to eulogize her myself without any regrets, because all during her lifetime I enjoyed her. I did for her. And I knew she couldn't live always. So I was just satisfied and content. And as I said, I enjoyed her every bit of my life. And she was a person that didn't try to manipulate you, didn't try to get into the marital business of any of her children. She just realized that each one had to live his or her own life. And she was not jealous of my relationship with my mother-in-law, because this is her attitude, nobody can take the place of a mother, nobody. And she realized that. And so she didn't have no problem.	21:08
Tywanna Whorley	You talk so fondly of her. What were some of the, I guess, values that she instilled in you, that you passed on to your own children?	22:22
William James Battle	To be nice to your mate, husband or wife, and not to be jealous, and always work out whatever differences that come up. Always work until you have resolved them, and be fair. And that's those principles, I've stuck with it. Because my wife and I have been married 58 years. And next Saturday, I'll be 81.	22:32
Tywanna Whorley	When you were living in Birmingham, where did you go to school?	23:16
William James Battle	They had elementary schools in practically all the neighborhoods, but they only had one high school. And it was called Industrial High School at that time. And of course now it's been changed to Parker High School, named after the first principal. And that's where we all went, everybody. At one time it was reputed to be the largest high school in America. But I mean that wouldn't be hard to understand. It was just that one. And my first year in 1927, we had a double class. You had some students come early, and then some come late, that's just how overcrowded it was.	23:26
Tywanna Whorley	Which one were you, the later or in the morning?	24:29
William James Battle	In the morning.	24:37
Tywanna Whorley	Oh, in the morning?	24:37
William James Battle	Yeah.	24:37
Tywanna Whorley	I've seen some pictures of Parker High, and I noticed that they had sewing classes, beauty culture classes, printing, the print shop.	24:40
William James Battle	Auto-mechanic, carpentry, nursing, cooking, home ec. They had all. You see, they were preparing the students for the occupations that would be available when they completed their high school career. The principal, Dr. Parker, took great pains in recommending young men to be chauffeurs for the rich White people that lived on the south side. And well, there were a few railroad jobs, fireman, switchman, brakeman like that. But after a period of time they stopped hiring Blacks in those positions, especially when the steam engines had a stoker where the coal would automatically go into the fire box, and then it became a White man's job.	24:48
William James Battle	And then of course teaching. And the method by which they chose teachers in a large measure was who they knew. In other words, take the instance, if one of the maids that worked for one of the officials, and they have a daughter that had finished college, they would ask their husband to intercede for them to get a job teaching. And that was the way the bigger portion of the Blacks were hired during that time.	25:55
William James Battle	It was who you knew, and not so much as to how much you knew. But by far and large now, I'll have to give credit. It wasn't too many people that went through high school and college that were not capable of teaching. Because one thing we were hungered for learning. My wife and I talked about, I was seven years older than she, but we would talk about, we didn't miss school for little trivial things. And in fact we looked forward to going to school.	26:41
William James Battle	And when we went to Industrial, Parker, the library was about two blocks from here, just one library. And I would walk from Industrial to the library, and I'd stay there in the library until it was just about dark. I just like to read. And I had plenty of company. You were a member of the library, this was a kind of status thing. The teachers appreciated kids going to the library, researching things. And I had one friend, like today Friday, we would go to the library. He would check out three books. Monday come, he would have read all three of those books. I wasn't a fast reader like that. He had a system by which he would just go down pretty much the center of the page. And he was flipping, he was really good. I'm not putting you to sleep, am I?	27:23
Tywanna Whorley	No, sir.	28:51
William James Battle	Look like had your eyes getting kind of.	28:53
Tywanna Whorley	No.	28:54
William James Battle	Okay. But I say that to show the contrast between youngsters in this day and time and the way we were. And I believe, I don't have any proof for it, but I believe if integration had come when we came along, we would have appreciated it much better than this generation. Plus the fact you would've had students who came from disciplined homes. And that was really the secret of children achieving, because the parents almost demanded that they would study, because they knew that you had to study in order to get your lesson. And they would see to it.	28:57
William James Battle	When we came home from school, we had chores to do. The boys had to get in coal, chop wood to start the fire, and other things. Then you get your lesson. And if there was enough daylight left, and it's not too much daylight from about October till the spring of the year, you didn't have too much time to play. But to see what way we would do that, we would hurry up and do those chores, hurry up and do them. And then study, and then get our lesson. Or we do just the opposite, get our lesson and then play. But whatever, the way it was done, you had to do those two things. You had to do the chores, and you had to get your lesson.	29:52
Tywanna Whorley	You talk about the library. Was it the public library?	30:52
William James Battle	Yes.	30:56
Tywanna Whorley	So they allowed Blacks in?	30:57
William James Battle	It was all Black. It was in the Masonic temple.	30:59
Tywanna Whorley	Oh, the one in the basement? Was it in the basement?	31:03
William James Battle	No, it's on the first floor.	31:04
Tywanna Whorley	First floor?	31:04
William James Battle	Uh-huh. It was called Booker T. Washington Library. And the picture of it is in the Center Street Library on Center Street and Eighth Avenue. I don't know whether you have gone down there since you've been here now, but they got some pictures in that library showing the librarians, and some of the students in there.	31:04
Tywanna Whorley	Okay. And the public library was a couple of blocks away from here, I guess here on the other side. And I guess you weren't allowed to go to that one.	31:36
William James Battle	Oh no, no. Uh-uh. No. If you needed a book, the librarian would call the library, the main library. That's what it was called. And they would send whatever books to the library that you need. No, no. All of that was to let you know that you weren't as good as they were.	31:48
Tywanna Whorley	So what did you, I guess you and your friends, or your classmates, think about the times? I mean, because you grew up in the '20s as well. I guess my question is, when did you become aware that there was differences between Blacks and Whites in this city?	32:15
William James Battle	Oh, very early. Very early. I mean, as early as when you start the school. You would note the difference because children want to go to public amusement parks, things like that. And your parents would tell you that they don't allow you there. Well why? And that was the hardest thing for a parent to tell their children that they couldn't go. Because the reason that they would tell the parent, the child wouldn't understand that.	32:45
William James Battle	And give an example, when they would have the fair every fall of the year to the fairground, the Blacks would have Saturday, and Saturday they were dismantling the equipment, getting ready to move out. And they called it a nigger and dog day. The last day was nigger and dog day. And to this day, my wife and I, we don't care nothing about fairs because of that bitter experience. And the movie theaters, you always had to go in the balcony, always. And it was horrendous.	33:19
William James Battle	But the thing that's amazing, it didn't leave the majority of us bitter. And where the secret of that is that Black people have had to depend upon God all the days of our lives. And when we became Christians, we were able to look at it from a different perspective. And I maintain that the people who are bitter, the Muslims, and those people, that the system made them like that. They saw that we were not given a fair shake, and they just became bitter. Like Stokely Carmichael, and the Black Panthers. The system made them like that.	34:13
William James Battle	And to let you know that that was not that kind of attitude and conduct, a White young fellow, when I went to work the post office, after getting cut off at the railroad shop. He told me that if he was Black, he would just take a machine gun and just mow down White people as long as he could see them. Because he knew firsthand the treatment that they were giving us.	35:08
William James Battle	And when we went to work in the post office, that's a federal installation, but it was segregated. There were no signs. But you were told that this is the restroom that Colored used. And this is a fountain that the Colored drink out of. To have put a sign up that Colored and White, that would've been in violation of the government rule. And so that was the order of the day. And they would always take a Black person who would go along with their program.	35:43
William James Battle	When the new employees come in, that the superintendent would tell this person, show them around. But this was a new generation coming on at that time. And they could see the fallacy, and they would challenge it quite a bit. They really would. And when Kennedy, passed a ruling that there would be no segregation, and that everybody would have the use of all the facility, when lunchtime came, it was really comical. When lunchtime came in the wintertime, those White fellas would take their lunch and go on outside in the cold, put their coats on, and eat their supper or whatever.	36:26
William James Battle	Isn't that a joke? But they were so deeply rooted in it. And we had one or two supervisor that took pension. They couldn't stand that. They took pension. And when the White women came into the post office, have you seen the picture of a case where they collect, stick the mail in? Well when those holes get full, well the mail handlers, most of them are Black. They had to draw those holes, get the mail out.	37:26
William James Battle	And natural, they'd be in close proximity with those White women. You know what one of them supervisors did? Took the back out of the case. It's funny. And then when the Blacks would sit down there, they would just — And just put the mail in there, and it would go out on the floor. And there was more mail on the floor than it was in the case where the Black was sitting. But they really tried to preserve their, quote, "White money". And it was really pathetic, I'm telling you.	38:11
Tywanna Whorley	Do you remember the Depression?	38:52
William James Battle	Oh, do I remember the Depression? Let me tell you. 1932, well really the depression came on the heels of the Stock Market Crash in '29. But things got worse gradually. 1930 wasn't so bad. 1931 was pretty bad. It looked like the bottom dropped out in 1932. That was the worst year that I have ever experienced.	39:00
William James Battle	To give you example of some food prices, you could go to the store and get three pounds of peas for a dime. You would get three pounds of sweet potatoes for a dime. Eggs were 15 and 20 cents a dozen. And pork chop, if you could buy, was 25 cents a pound. And sausage, some of it was so fat it would never grease, 15 cents a pound. And steak, of course, very few Black people could eat steak unless they would eat it every other Sunday or so, 35 and 40 cents a pound.	39:40
William James Battle	And clothes, if you wore a suit, a man wore a suit for $25, he had him a nice suit. Blach's was one of the leading stores in Birmingham for men and women wear. And their first suit was called a Blexon, B-L-E-X-O-N, it was $25, two pair of pants. And it was a nice suit. And Hickey Freeman in 1932, I went from a hundred and some odd dollars down to $65. Flourishing shoes for men were $10. And correspondingly, all the way down the line I did remember, but I wished I had written it down. The unemployment rate in 1932, it was something awful. And the churches would be full on Sunday, Sunday nights. We had BYP on Sunday evening. And all of those places, really just about everybody went to church.	40:27
William James Battle	So here not too long ago, I was telling my wife about how the churches were attended, and how churches are now. She said, "I don't know what you talking about, we just didn't have nowhere else to go." What she was trying to tell me. It wasn't all that religious and piety, we just didn't have nowhere to go. And movies— I mean the White folks got sanctimonious. They closed the movies on Sundays. No movies. So the only places that the boys would meet the girls was at church. And it was really awful, I'm here to tell you. And they didn't have no welfare as we know it. They had the Red Cross was dispensing food and stuff like that. And a house, if somebody moved out of it, didn't nobody move in there right away, piece by piece they would dismantle that house. For kindling, stuff like that.	41:45
William James Battle	And they learned how to get water, because Birmingham Water always cut the water off. And what they would do in the daytime, they would draw tubs of water. I mean night, draw tubs of water to last till the next night. And Alabama Power Company would cut the electricity off, and somebody came up with the idea of putting a penny behind the fuse, some sort of way, and got electricity. I mean, Black people are really innovative, and we just are a people that is able to roll with the punch and be able to survive. Everybody was happy, and nobody robbed nobody else. A lot of time we go to bed at night and didn't lock the door. And how summertime like this wouldn't even fasten the screen door, would put a pallet down in front of the door and go to sleep. Nobody bother.	43:03
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:44:29] Can't do that today.	44:31
William James Battle	No. No.	44:32
Tywanna Whorley	Okay. I wanted to ask you about the uniform code at Parker. Was it universal at that time?	44:35
William James Battle	Oh yeah. Yeah, it was. The boys wore khaki trousers and a brown shirt. And the girls wore a blue uniform. And when they became seniors, they were white, and the boys wore white shirts and the khaki trousers. During the '20s, wasn't but 10, 11, 12 years after World War I was. And the army stores had plenty of those khaki trousers, and we bought them. And usually I had two pair. I had one clean, one every week, every other week.	44:48
William James Battle	Excuse me. And then the girls, some of them, my mother-in-law said that my wife had for a while, had just two dresses that she would pull it off, and wash it and iron it. And silk stockings were out too. And they had to wear those white cotton stocking. And the girls didn't like that. And they really couldn't do any better. But what they would do, a lot of them, they would be the more affluent ones, would bring some stockings to school with them. And that last period they would change, get out those cotton stockings and put on those silk stockings. And I wonder, I never have been able to understand—	45:45

William James Battle	Why would you think they would do that?	0:03
Tywanna Whorley	I don't know. The change itself, maybe try something new?	0:07
William James Battle	I don't know. And then, they had one of the teachers, whose job was to inspect uniform, and sometime between 2:30 and 3:00, she would go among them. And if they had on silk stocking, they had to pull them off. The girls were so mad.	0:19
Tywanna Whorley	Would you say that he had a good education from at Parker High School?	0:49
William James Battle	Yes, I certainly do. They taught the courses that they thought was all that we need. They didn't teach any business. No typing. What you going to type? There wasn't enough Black businesses to have some so they gave plenty of education in Home Ec and all those, nursing, all of those things. They were for when you get out of there, you'd be prepared to go out into a segregated world. And even in that segregated world, we were able to hold our own with the— Take the incident when you went to school across Mason-Dixon line, they were able to hold their own and didn't have to have no remedial classes for them. No, unless they had quite a few and those schools that offer remedial courses. But see, every school didn't offer remedial courses.	1:03
Tywanna Whorley	Regardin segregation at the time. Did you think that was anything would change?	2:22
William James Battle	Well, yes, but we thought it would be in the damn distance. We never thought that it would happen in our lifetime because it was so steeped. I mean, it was a way of life with those White folks. And there was some maids who said that they used to spit in the White folks' food when they were—	2:28
William James Battle	And I've worked with a fellow who came from a rural area and they had at that time WPA. Work Progress Administration during Franklin Roosevelt's presidency. And in the country, they used to do work on the roads. And this friend of mine, I got acquainted with him during the work time and he was telling me about how they used to do on the roads a job. He said he was a water boy and he had to go to the spring and get water. You smiling, you must know what I'm going to say. But yes, he said that white bucket, he tend to it. And he said, them White folks crazy White. Now you going edit this thing? Now you not—	3:07
Tywanna Whorley	Mm-hmm. Oh wow.	4:06
William James Battle	But it was so many ways that we had to survive. There's no question about it. I'm telling you the truth. And at the railroad shop where I worked, there was a mechanic there that he had caused a lot of Blacks to lose their job because the foreman say, "If you can't satisfy Mr. Lynch, I don't have nothing for you to do." So this particular mechanic had run quite a few fellows away. So when they put this fellow with him, his name was David Harden. Never forget it, he died about, let's see, this is '80, no it was in '81 when he died. But anyway, this foreman told Dave said, "Old man Parmeter has run a lot of Black helpers away so I'm going to give you to him and you the last one I'm going to give it." So Dave told me he'd handle it.	4:19
William James Battle	And so he hollered at Dave on one occasion and Dave didn't like it. And he told Dave he what he'd do to him. And Dave told him, said, "Man, I'll cut you too short to hang up." And looking him right in his two looking eyes. And I wouldn't tell you what it was started. Dave and that man got along like two peas in a pod. I know one occasion, I walked up to him, he wasn't doing anything. Dave went in the man pocket, said, "Battle, you want a Coke?" Took his money, and bought us a Coke. And old man Parmeter said— They called me Lawrence, that's my daddy's name, said, "Lawrence, oh Dave ain't got a damn bit of sense."	5:21
William James Battle	And the White people were amazed at that because they knew this man reputation. But Dave, he really called this bluff. And Dave had a knife and you would think, it had a spring on it. He'd get that knife out and open it so quick, it'd make your head swim. Now he wasn't a bad person, but he was the only country person I've ever come in contact with that had an answer. He didn't have to think, he didn't have to study. It becomes spontaneous. I mean, he was really quick with it, I'm telling you. And they got to know him and they walked around him too.	6:40
Tywanna Whorley	How was Fourth Avenue during the twenties?	7:31
William James Battle	Okay, well it was a more or less a mecca for Black people. Now there was some good and there was some bad. That was the only place in Birmingham, in metropolitan Birmingham, where that you would have a place to come. The theaters were down there and all of the barber shops. And then there were a few variety stores and the clothing stores for Blacks. And it had a reputation but it really wasn't all that bad because you didn't really have any other place to go. And that block between 16th Street and 18th Street was considered Black.	7:34
William James Battle	And the bad part about it, the department stores uptown, for a while, they didn't have no restrooms for Blacks and you'd have to come down to Fourth Avenue before you would be able to use the restroom. But it was all we had and really and truly, it was really thriving. It really was. And when the integration came, well, it just took away the Black business down there. It just took it completely away. And everybody glad to be able to go uptown and they tell me, because my wife said so, that they wouldn't let women try on a hat. They had to put a handkerchief over their head to try the hat on. And a lot of the places, you couldn't try on a dress. That's just how severe it was. And then there were few real light-skinned Black people that passed for White and they didn't have no trouble.	8:36
Tywanna Whorley	So you knew some people who could—?	9:58
William James Battle	Oh yes, yes. The doctor that lived on our street, his wife, you couldn't tell her from a White person. And they had two daughters and they tried to enter them in Woodlawn High School but they wouldn't accept them. Then the ironic thing about it, a few years later, that same school, an East Indian came here and he was darker than Dr. Braun's daughter. But by the mere fact that they were East Indian, they could go. And in baseball, the way a lot of light-skinned Blacks got into organized baseball at that time before Jackie Robinson, they claimed they were Cubans. Of course, they'd had to be able to speak Spanish though.	10:01
Tywanna Whorley	Do you remember any of them?	11:01
William James Battle	I heard of them because the Washington Senators baseball, they had several but I never saw them. I just knew their name.	11:05
Tywanna Whorley	Speaking of baseball, did you used to go see the Black baseball team that you said, the Birmingham—	11:18
William James Battle	Black Barons. Oh yeah.	11:26
Tywanna Whorley	Where did they play?	11:26
William James Battle	Rickwood Field. They would play. Blacks now, they— Rickwood Field, it's no longer— They don't play. What the White people did, they took the name to a White community, Hoover. But they called them the White— Birmingham Barons. But it's not in Birmingham, it's in Hoover. And a lot of Blacks don't go. I don't go. I've never been there. Now they got Michael Jordan and there are some Blacks go, but quite a few of us don't go because they're just using Michael Jordan and he never had been a ball player. But his name draws people.	11:26
Tywanna Whorley	So what did Blacks do then for entertainment, besides see the baseball team?	12:26
William James Battle	Well we had picnics, hay rides, you ever heard of hay ride?	12:34
Tywanna Whorley	Mm-mm.	12:41
William James Battle	Well, anybody that have a truck, they didn't necessarily get no hay, but the amusement parks that we were privileged to go, they were all on outskirts of town and there were several round about. And so we would have our fun with those situations. Now if you expect for us to have been in mourning back there in comparison to what you are privileged to go to now, you would think that. But we were just as happy as a dead pig in the sunshine with the limited things that we had to enjoy. So we were never without anything to do.	12:42
Tywanna Whorley	Do you remember Dynamite Hill?	13:44
William James Battle	Oh yeah, that's the name they gave. Have you visit over there in that area in Birmingham?	13:48
Tywanna Whorley	I got lost over there one time. I went the opposite and I was trying to find Mr. Patton's house and I went to the opposite end and came back this way.	13:52
William James Battle	Yeah. Mr. Patton didn't live over there.	13:58
Tywanna Whorley	Yeah, he lives on Cahaba—	13:58
William James Battle	Yeah. Cahaba Street.	13:58
Tywanna Whorley	And I ended up going all the way to Parker High School.	13:58
William James Battle	Well, now you in the neighborhood of Dynamite Hill.	14:15
Tywanna Whorley	What do you remember about that time you in Birmingham?	14:21
William James Battle	Well, when Blacks started moving in those houses, when the White people first start selling to Blacks. Well, the White people that remained didn't want to live in close proximity. They would bomb their houses and lawyer Shores' house, I think had been bombed a couple of times. Have you met his daughter since you've been here?	14:25
Tywanna Whorley	No, sir.	14:59
William James Battle	You ought get somebody to take you to the law office. It's in the Citizens Federal Bank building. It's no more just to go by and—	15:03
Tywanna Whorley	Okay. Citizens—	15:17
William James Battle	Citizens Federal Bank building. Yeah. I think her father still comes to the office sometimes and it'd be a good thing to visit him. I mean, the office and just tell her what you're doing and she might grant you an interview. I don't know. Tell her that you understand that father was a pioneer lawyer here. He was the first one to practice law in the White court and your visit wouldn't be complete until you would interview him.	15:21
Tywanna Whorley	Okay. You have to go?	16:07
William James Battle	Yeah, I— You still got some more questions?	16:19
Tywanna Whorley	Oh, only thing I wanted to ask you is about when did you decide to become a pastor?	16:19
William James Battle	When I decided to become a pastor? Well, I'm not a pastor as such. I'm the assistant pastor at the church where I serve, it's Bethlehem Baptist Church in Collegeville. And I served during the interim between the time that they didn't have a pastor. And before then, I was the assistant pastor at my membership church First Baptist Woodlawn. And course, when they called the present pastor, Reverend Wilder, I really didn't have any problems. I had been there pretty close to nine months, but for some reason he impressed— Well, the spirit let me know that this was who the spirit wanted to pastor in that church.	16:31
William James Battle	And he asked me to stay on because he has a full-time job and it's really been rewarding because he's the most prolific, most serious, most dedicated minister that I have ever been around. And it is really a pleasure. And he went to the church and asked for me, put me on a salary and had a day from my wife and me, just like a anniversary. And it's really been a pleasure serving under him.	17:24
Tywanna Whorley	How long have you served?	18:06
William James Battle	They called him in '88. I went there in '87 and I've been there with him since '88.	18:09
Tywanna Whorley	Oh, okay. Just an ending question. Do you see any significant changes? You had the opportunity to view the '20s and '30s and '40s and '50s, do you see significant changes now currently? Or do you see that there still need to be changes regarding race relations?	18:18
William James Battle	Well, I see changes, true enough. There are some changes, but what we've got to do, we've got to enlarge, for the lack of a better word, own the opportunities that we do have now. And we have got to change our attitudes towards one another. We still miles apart as it relates to one another. And of course, racism is going to be here as long, I would	18:37
William James Battle	imagine, as the world stands. But we can do quite a bit towards eliminating racism if we would stand together, if we would work together and not work against one another because that old slave mentality is still alive. That we think that that old adage about the White man's ice is colder than the Black. And we got to really come together closer than we are. And we also have got to get back to the basic principles of family life. The husband, the father, and to love our children and to discipline our children.	19:16
William James Battle	I don't think we need to beat them, but we do need to get their attention and discipline them and teach them the precepts that we were taught, that number one, that God is still in control. And number two is that we have got to recognize one another as brothers and sisters and work closely together, patronize one another in business. And in doing so, we can create a lot of jobs for Black people and not having to look to the White man for everything.	20:15
William James Battle	There are many things that we can do ourselves to create jobs and this is where we are lacking and this is what we've got to do. We are facing the 21st century and we cannot face it with the old antiquated slavery time methods. We've got to recognize the fact that, as Jesse Jackson said, we are somebody and I would add a post script. Then we got to be somebody. Not just say it, but we've got to be somebody. And being somebody, we will recognize the fact that every Black person is important.	21:00
Tywanna Whorley	Was that something really prevalent in the '40s and '50s? Is that the closeness of the family community?	21:43
William James Battle	Yeah, it really was. It really was because of the fact that we knew that unless we get together, we couldn't invade the White man's society. So therefore, we had principles, we had many things going for us. We had solidarity in the home. Now when I say that, I don't mean that it was perfect, but what I'm saying is that it was there.	22:01
Tywanna Whorley	Well, thank you.	22:34
William James Battle	Okay.	22:34

Item Info

Title:

William Battle interview recording, 1994 June 24

Date:

June 24, 1994

Creator:

Battle, William James

Contributor:

Whorley, Tywanna

Description:

Name: William James Battle; Date of birth: unknown; Place of birth: Union Springs, AL; Occupation(s): postal worker; pastor; civil service; Residence: Birmingham, AL
Informant ID: 739; Interviewed by: Tywanna Whorley.

Occupation:

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

See below

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-0363
1cbbc207-56b8-48c5-83f1-ee5de3c6380d
behindtheveil
84d4392d-1605-485e-9135-cfd1645a699c
ark:/87924/r48p66j68
84d4392d-1605-485e-9135-cfd1645a699c

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r48p66j68

Sponsor:

Sponsor this Digital Collection

William Battle interview recording, 1994 June 24

Transcript

Item Info

1. William Battle administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

More Info & Options

William Battle interview recording, 1994 June 24

Transcript

Item Info

Related Items

John Hope Franklin Research Center

More Info & Options