Abraham Fleming interview recording, 1995 July 03

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Kisha Turner	We can begin by you just stating your full name and the year you were born.	0:03
Abraham B. Fleming	My name is Abraham Fleming. On the 30th day of May, 1915.	0:08
Kisha Turner	1915.	0:15
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes.	0:15
Kisha Turner	May 3rd?	0:18
Abraham B. Fleming	May the 30th.	0:21
Kisha Turner	Yes. Oh, the third. Okay.	0:23
Abraham B. Fleming	Right.	0:24
Kisha Turner	Were you born here in New Zion?	0:24
Abraham B. Fleming	New Zion.	0:28
Kisha Turner	Okay. You've been in New Zion?	0:30
Abraham B. Fleming	Practically all my life. I've been out of New Zion 10 years. I spent 10 years in Philadelphia.	0:32
Kisha Turner	Oh, okay. Let's begin with your childhood. Can you tell me about the community you grew up in? What kind of work your parents did?	0:39
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, just farmers, sharecroppers.	0:49
Kisha Turner	Who lived in your house with you?	0:55
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, it was my mother and my father and a first cousin and my grandmother.	0:58
Kisha Turner	Okay. You didn't have any brothers or sisters?	1:06
Abraham B. Fleming	No. No brothers. I got a half-brother, not in the house. I got one half-brother.	1:09
Kisha Turner	Okay. What family did your parents work for?	1:15
Abraham B. Fleming	They worked for the Johnson's.	1:21
Kisha Turner	The Johnsons.	1:22
Abraham B. Fleming	The Johnson family.	1:23
Kisha Turner	Okay. What kind of crops did they grow?	1:26
Abraham B. Fleming	They plant tobacco, cotton, and corn, sweet potatoes, ribbon cane. That's basis what they work.	1:27
Kisha Turner	Okay.	1:37
Abraham B. Fleming	Then a garden, a regular garden.	1:38
Kisha Turner	For yourself?	1:44
Abraham B. Fleming	For ourselves.	1:45
Kisha Turner	For your family, okay.	1:45
Abraham B. Fleming	Family. Always give the sharecroppers a small area for garden, sweet potatoes, and we raised your meat. We had your own cows and milk.	1:49
Kisha Turner	Okay. How many families worked there on the land with you?	2:02
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, on this particular farm, we had three families. This man had three families.	2:06
Kisha Turner	Okay. You said that you had your own plot for a garden for your family.	2:16
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, yes. Definitely.	2:19
Kisha Turner	Did you also raise any livestock for your family?	2:21
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, yeah. We raised hogs.	2:25
Kisha Turner	Okay.	2:26
Abraham B. Fleming	We'd have our own meat, and then we'd have a milk cow, your own milk.	2:32
Kisha Turner	Okay.	2:35
Abraham B. Fleming	We didn't raise any livestock for the market.	2:40
Kisha Turner	Okay.	2:43
Abraham B. Fleming	Just for our table use.	2:43
Kisha Turner	Okay. What was a, I don't know, maybe when you were around, if you can remember 10 or so, what were your tasks? What did you have to do on the farm?	2:50
Abraham B. Fleming	What I had to do? I had to notice the cows, and feed the pigs, milk the cow. That was the children's task mostly. Then help work in the field.	3:12
Kisha Turner	Work in the field?	3:21
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes, ma'am.	3:23
Kisha Turner	Okay. Children usually took care of the cows.	3:24
Abraham B. Fleming	Cows. Yeah. See they put us out there with the cows and the woods. We used, they don't burn now. We need to burn. We always burned the land early.	3:33
Kisha Turner	Okay.	3:57
Abraham B. Fleming	It would accumulate grass for the cows to graze on.	3:57
Kisha Turner	Okay.	3:57
Abraham B. Fleming	We wasn't allowed to tie them to a tree or stone or something. They put us out there to watch him.	3:57
Kisha Turner	Okay.	4:00
Abraham B. Fleming	We wouldn't let them get away. That was our task. If we did, we had to pay for it when we get home.	4:00
Kisha Turner	Oh, if you let them get, what would happen? Get in trouble?	4:08
Abraham B. Fleming	Get in trouble.	4:14
Kisha Turner	Okay.	4:14
Abraham B. Fleming	They didn't promise you back in our time, we promised our children. Now back in that time they didn't promise you.	4:15
Kisha Turner	Promise you what?	4:22
Abraham B. Fleming	I'll switch it.	4:23
Kisha Turner	Oh, okay.	4:24
Abraham B. Fleming	If you need it. They put it on it.	4:27
Kisha Turner	How about school?	4:35
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, we had a two room school. We had to walk about five miles, and sometimes we'd go into some the sun shining, like all right today, coming back we in the rain or the snow.	4:36
Kisha Turner	Really.	4:57
Abraham B. Fleming	I can remember my first day in school, I promoted myself to a class. I wasn't in that class, but I promoted myself because I had some friends, my height. I was [indistinct 00:05:20] and they had that two room school. I call a mean teacher, and we was in the spelling line in second grade. That was long line, had the cover around schoolhouse. She was given two cuts to every word you missed. I miss both of mine. She stopped with all of them miss one, but I missed both of mine, but I wasn't, well I wasn't in that class.	5:01
Abraham B. Fleming	When she get to me, I hold my hand out. She said, "No, I'll get you tomorrow." When I went back to school that next morning, I find my class, and they had a nice teacher. She was a little heavy and she wear those button up shoes and she allowed me to sit right in the door. I could look in the other classroom. Every morning I had to button her shoes. She would put her foot up on the chair and I'd button up her shoes and she put me in the door. Man, Lord, how mercy that other lady, a young lady that's helped me right now, never did finish school, never did get out to second grade. She was, [indistinct 00:06:49].	6:01
Kisha Turner	Okay.	6:48
Abraham B. Fleming	This lady wouldn't, couldn't get her lesson. She wasn't getting a lesson, and she tried to write, wrote a letter to a boy and the teacher get hold it. She was just [indistinct 00:07:09] and wouldn't get done about her lesson. We used to have them big switches in our school like they thumb, and they hit you any place with them. Of course, I saw that teacher put that stick on that lady. She'd get the books and her coat and hadn't been back to school.	6:54
Kisha Turner	Wow.	7:31
Abraham B. Fleming	Now they helps me. They can't count. It gets good money come in the house. I help them to get money and all like that, but people just take it from them because they don't have enough education to manage the business. That's what I came through with. Then after, that was in the union area, we was living on the other end. Then we moved further back this way, and then I came in at this school. We had a two room school.	7:32
Kisha Turner	What was the name of the first school you went to?	8:04
Abraham B. Fleming	St. Mark.	8:08
Kisha Turner	St. Mark?	8:09
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes, ma'am.	8:10
Kisha Turner	Okay.	8:10
Abraham B. Fleming	The second one is Howard Chapel. That's where we are now, but I always was a member of this church.	8:12
Kisha Turner	These were schools that were in the churches?	8:26
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, they was on the church property. Four months, didn't have but four months/	8:29
Kisha Turner	Four months in school? You had to work the rest of the time?	8:39
Abraham B. Fleming	That's right. They get you out of town enough to start planting corn, cotton, and tobacco when we was finished with school.	8:44
Kisha Turner	But when you were in school, how long did the school day last?	8:50
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, they stayed eight hours.	8:57
Kisha Turner	Eight hours?	8:57
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes, ma'am.	8:58
Kisha Turner	What subjects did you study?	8:59
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, math, and reading, [indistinct 00:09:10] and spelling. We didn't have but four books.	9:06
Kisha Turner	Were these books, did White people give you their used books or did you buy?	9:19
Abraham B. Fleming	No, we could go to the store and buy.	9:25
Kisha Turner	Oh, okay.	9:27
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah.	9:27
Kisha Turner	Okay.	9:28
Abraham B. Fleming	Go to the store and buy. Then we had poorly prepared teachers. They taught us the thing they could take care of. See, we had mostly the White didn't care about Black getting their education. They didn't care too much about it. Now, I stay on my [indistinct 00:09:57] and young people to quit playing in school and get the lesson. Of course, they would hire a 10th grade scholar to come in and teach us.	9:29
Kisha Turner	These were state schools, or who paid?	10:12
Abraham B. Fleming	State school. [indistinct 00:10:19] pay for it. Right.	10:18
Kisha Turner	Okay. They hired these teachers who weren't really—	10:18
Abraham B. Fleming	Right. Wasn't bad. That's right. They taught us to the thing they could have a cap in that something they could take care.	10:18
Kisha Turner	Did you graduate from Howard Chapel School?	10:38
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. That's eighth grade. That's far as they went.	10:40
Kisha Turner	Eighth grade.	10:43
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. Then I went on after I was called into the minister, then I went on to Marsh College, complete a certificate there as a ministry in the seminary.	10:43
Kisha Turner	Okay.	10:54
Abraham B. Fleming	Then I had four years at Allen University in Columbia.	10:55
Kisha Turner	All right. We'll go back to those things.	11:01
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah.	11:05
Kisha Turner	Okay. Let's see. Well quickly, let me ask you about how old were people before you started working in the fields?	11:09
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, maybe about 10, 12 years old.	11:19
Kisha Turner	Okay. Okay. All right. This is what I was going to ask you. Did your parents ever tell you about how New Zion was, or I don't know where they were from, but how it was when they were younger?	11:22
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. Well, it was the same thing. They came up working for, most of the Blacks didn't own any property and they was working for the White man. Of course, if I'm working on for this man, say the Johnson family, they take care of us to really take care. We belongs to them, and you couldn't go on, another man wouldn't hire you if Johnson said he had something for you to do. They came like that.	11:37
Kisha Turner	They were on that same?	12:17
Abraham B. Fleming	On the same farm.	12:18
Kisha Turner	On the same farm.	12:18
Abraham B. Fleming	Farm I was born. That's right.	12:19
Kisha Turner	Okay.	12:21
Abraham B. Fleming	But in later years, then my father, he bought a farm. He got a farm around there. He's passed now, but my mother's still on the farm.	12:25
Kisha Turner	Oh, okay.	12:33
Abraham B. Fleming	Then I own this property in here, then I have some over there.	12:33
Kisha Turner	How about your grandmother who lived with you? Did she ever tell you about how things were when she was young?	12:42
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, about the same thing I'm telling you now.	12:47
Kisha Turner	Same thing?	12:50
Abraham B. Fleming	They was under the supervision of the landowner who place they live on. He give the orders.	12:51
Kisha Turner	Okay. She also worked for that?	13:02
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah.	13:03
Kisha Turner	Same family	13:04
Abraham B. Fleming	In Flint. Yeah.	13:04
Kisha Turner	Okay. How about church? You said you attended Howard Chapel?	13:13
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes, ma'am.	13:15
Kisha Turner	What was church like when you were a child?	13:15
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, the churches was, as you know, they didn't have much money, but they had a good spirit. Church would be full. We used to have a revival meeting, and you couldn't hardly get in the church.	13:16
Kisha Turner	No?	13:33
Abraham B. Fleming	That's right. You could see people coming from behind, they lived behind these woods, and torches of fire, some riding in wagons. They would come every night.	13:34
Kisha Turner	Did you, oh, go ahead.	13:52
Abraham B. Fleming	On Sunday, church would be full.	13:54
Kisha Turner	Did you come every Sunday?	14:00
Abraham B. Fleming	No, ma'am. No. I told my congregation I'd be fair with him. I said, "Well, I wouldn't preaching. I wouldn't be the church every Sunday now." Every Sunday, you'd be someplace else. Maybe not at some worldly place, but you just wouldn't be the church every Sunday. I have two churches, and call every Sunday. If I was at a station church, they'd call for every Sunday for me to be there. My larger church, I have a large congregation each Sunday, and I can look over the congregation and tell who was who there every Sunday before and who here today, but I still got a large congregation.	14:02
Kisha Turner	How old were you when you left that farm?	14:58
Abraham B. Fleming	How old I was, let's see. My first marriage was '36 I was. I think I was 20, 21 years old when I left that farm and married the first time.	15:04
Kisha Turner	Okay. Did your parents remain there?	15:26
Abraham B. Fleming	They remained right there. Yeah.	15:28
Kisha Turner	Okay. Where did you go when you got married?	15:34
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, I went to another farm in Gable, a farm there. The farm that I married. My wife worked one year, and then after that I left and with the Philadelphia.	15:35
Kisha Turner	Okay. You stayed in Gable for a year?	15:49
Abraham B. Fleming	One year.	15:50
Kisha Turner	Okay. The two of you went to Philadelphia?	15:50
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah, both of us went.	15:54
Kisha Turner	Okay. What were your impressions of Philadelphia when you first got there?	15:58
Abraham B. Fleming	Saw the roof, I tell you that when I first got there. Job was hard to find, and a lot of people was really on the World Fair.	16:04
Kisha Turner	Okay. What year was this?	16:14
Abraham B. Fleming	Beg your pardon?	16:14
Kisha Turner	This was in '37?	16:19
Abraham B. Fleming	Well I left in '36.	16:23
Kisha Turner	Okay.	16:28
Abraham B. Fleming	But this was mostly '37.	16:28
Kisha Turner	Okay.	16:28
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. When I was in Philadelphia. Of course, my wife's uncle came down, and he was dressed good and driving a rented car. He really brainwashes you. See everything was foreign in Philadelphia. And when I went there I thought it different, but I stayed. I didn't have any children up for the wife. We made it somehow until 1941. I get a good job.	16:28
Kisha Turner	In Philadelphia?	17:09
Abraham B. Fleming	In Philadelphia. Yeah.	17:11
Kisha Turner	What'd you do between '37 and '41?	17:13
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, I worked with anyone I could find a job. The milk man, I stayed in. I put in the place where they rent a lot of horses, people rent horses. Some of them sell ice and different things in town, wagons. That was the worst place I ever been. Goats, and them more horses had to feed them, rubbing up against them, some of them kicking, and that was a terrible job. I didn't stay there long now, but I just drove the job anyway until I found a good job. I stayed till 1936, and my first wife, she passed in Chester, Pennsylvania. Then my second wife passed in 1993. See, I have two deceased wives.	17:15
Kisha Turner	What part of Philadelphia did you live in?	18:18
Abraham B. Fleming	Southern. South Philadelphia. Right.	18:20
Kisha Turner	Oh, okay. The people you worked for, were they White?	18:24
Abraham B. Fleming	Well at first, all mix up, some White, some Black because my wife uncle was, well he was a cement finisher.	18:29
Kisha Turner	Okay.	18:42
Abraham B. Fleming	He contract houses. He had had a time when I went there, he been on the work.	18:42
Kisha Turner	Okay.	18:50
Abraham B. Fleming	He go down, he wouldn't report what he really was doing. He was making some extra money, but he never did report it back. He put on something ragged and go down there and get that. He come back, he living pretty good.	18:55
Kisha Turner	What about your wife, your first wife? Did she have difficulty finding work in Philadelphia?	19:11
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. She had difficulty finding work there too. She had some odd jobs.	19:23
Kisha Turner	What kind of work did you find in '41?	19:34
Abraham B. Fleming	41, I work in the chemical plant, General Chemical Company.	19:37
Kisha Turner	Okay.	19:42
Abraham B. Fleming	Out in Claymont, Delaware.	19:42
Kisha Turner	Okay. What chemical company?	19:42
Abraham B. Fleming	General Chemical Company.	19:42
Kisha Turner	Okay.	19:42
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. I had a good job there. I didn't do nothing yet better work myself up there when I left there. I hadn't been back to Philadelphia in 43 years.	19:43
Kisha Turner	Yeah.	20:05
Abraham B. Fleming	Not sure how much I'd like it.	20:05
Kisha Turner	Last time.	20:05
Abraham B. Fleming	That's right.	20:05
Kisha Turner	Were you ever a member in the union when you worked?	20:14
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, yeah. We was in the union. Yes, ma'am.	20:18
Kisha Turner	Do you remember the name, the number?	20:19
Abraham B. Fleming	No, I can't remember. Been so long now. 43 years. No, I can't remember.	20:22
Kisha Turner	Okay.	20:39
Abraham B. Fleming	All I know is we was in a union.	20:39
Kisha Turner	Okay. How was your union viewed by the people you worked for?	20:42
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, they didn't care too much about it, but the workers, we get together and say we going to join the union. Nothing they could do by it. That would take our job, but take our [indistinct 00:21:02]. Employers don't care nothing about you in a union, so that means they got to do right.	20:46
Kisha Turner	How was your relation with White people you worked with? White workers?	21:20
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, fine. I'm glad you brought that up. I was on a job at Chemical Plant that a Black man had never worked on.	21:25
Kisha Turner	Okay.	21:41
Abraham B. Fleming	Before they give me the job, they went around and asked the White would they work with me. [indistinct 00:21:52] and all of them said yeah.	21:42
Kisha Turner	Okay.	21:48
Abraham B. Fleming	I had good relationship with them.	21:54
Kisha Turner	What was the job?	21:56
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, we was making the war material.	21:57
Kisha Turner	Okay.	21:58
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah.	21:58
Kisha Turner	They agreed to work.	22:05
Abraham B. Fleming	They agreed to work with me.	22:05
Kisha Turner	Were they also union members?	22:06
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes, ma'am. They all was union members.	22:06
Kisha Turner	Was the leadership of your union, were they White people?	22:15
Abraham B. Fleming	White. Yeah. White, and Black mixed in too.	22:18
Kisha Turner	Okay.	22:20
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. It was integrated. Okay.	22:20
Kisha Turner	Yeah. I know you were probably working a lot of the time and you said it was rough at first. Did you all get a chance to get out and do anything for fun on weekends or anything?	22:33
Abraham B. Fleming	No. We'd be busy working most of the time. Our schedule wouldn't allow us to get out.	22:47
Kisha Turner	Okay. Did you ever get a chance to see the theater by any chance? Go to—	22:52
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, yeah.	23:00
Kisha Turner	Yeah.	23:01
Abraham B. Fleming	Especially at night, I like to see them cowboy pictures.	23:03
Kisha Turner	Oh, yeah.	23:07
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. We had a little pleasure.	23:10
Kisha Turner	Okay. What other types of things other than the theater?	23:15
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, baseball game.	23:18
Kisha Turner	Baseball.	23:19
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah.	23:20
Kisha Turner	Did you go to Negro League?	23:23
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. We had one there right in Chester, Pennsylvania. Well, see a White team then the Black, and they'd come out and they would play. See, we had a Black league day in Philadelphia, and they would start through Chester, Pennsylvania, and we had a White team there. Of course, they would never put up their best players, and every time they came through, they'd get beaten. We didn't like that. For the White and we beating the Black. We want them to show up, and they'd go right to Philadelphia and shut the other team out. We didn't care too much about that. Ain't nothing we can do about it.	23:25
Kisha Turner	Why would they do that?	24:24
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, they saved their best players for the team they're really going to.	24:26
Kisha Turner	Oh, okay.	24:30
Abraham B. Fleming	They'd be starting through.	24:30
Kisha Turner	Oh, okay.	24:32
Abraham B. Fleming	Just give a game, but we had one Black team out of New Jersey. This boy was [indistinct 00:24:42] he'd beat him every time he come in there. He'd beat that White team. They couldn't beat him. Man, we packed that place. We know he could come our way in a day. I reckon he was a little bit selfish on that [indistinct 00:24:59] reckon, but we just like to see how people come to the front.	24:32
Kisha Turner	Right. How long did you work for the chemical plant?	25:06
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, I worked there '41 to '46. That's how many years?	25:09
Kisha Turner	Do You remember, was there anything about that job or about while you were there that stands out?	25:18
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, yes. After '41, the Blacks began to get high position in that plant. Seemed like things turn around for the Black. We had a lot of Black, if they had enough education to take care of the job was getting good job.	25:27
Kisha Turner	What church did you attend in Philadelphia?	25:58
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, I went to the AME Church, just like I was here, but I used to work on Sunday. Mostly, I attend church on Sunday night on my way to work. I was a member of AME church in Chester, Pennsylvania. I joined that church, and we'd stop by. They'd have programs. Very seldom when I would get any preaching, but they had quartets and choirs singing and we'd stop by and then go on our way.	25:58
Kisha Turner	How many hours a week did you work?	26:31
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, we'd make 40 hours.	26:34
Kisha Turner	40. Okay.	26:34
Abraham B. Fleming	Then overtime.	26:42
Kisha Turner	Overtime.	26:43
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. But regular hours is 40 hours. See when you work overtime, you get time and a half, and sometimes you couldn't leave the job until someone relieve you. Sometime they'll call in, "I'm sick, I can't get there," and then you'd have to make 16 hours. I have worked 24 hours before I could go home.	26:44
Kisha Turner	Were you paid much more for overtime?	27:14
Abraham B. Fleming	You paid much more, but they take it out because I didn't have no dependents, wife. They take a whole lot of that.	27:21
Kisha Turner	Taxes?	27:28
Abraham B. Fleming	Taxes. That's true.	27:30
Kisha Turner	What happened in '46? What made you decide to leave?	27:36
Abraham B. Fleming	Make me leave, I just get enough of it and I thought I'd come back home. All my people were here. I came back.	27:42
Kisha Turner	Did you quit your job?	27:54
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, yeah.	27:57
Kisha Turner	You quit?	27:58
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, yeah. I let them know.	28:00
Kisha Turner	Okay.	28:01
Abraham B. Fleming	My foreman told me, said, "Now if you go down there and can't make it, your job is waiting on you. Come back." But I made it because I didn't have it one [indistinct 00:28:16]. So I made it and I met this lady here, got a picture here. Got a picture up there.	28:03
Kisha Turner	Right here?	28:27
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. See on the wall? I met her in '47. I came back '46, then we married '49.	28:28
Kisha Turner	Okay.	28:37
Abraham B. Fleming	We put our heads together, bought this land, two children, well three. She had a boy, another married and he was two years old. He didn't know no one but me. Then we had two, a boy and a girl. All of them educated.	28:38
Kisha Turner	Okay. Did you buy this land with money you'd saved from your job in Philadelphia?	29:07
Abraham B. Fleming	No, ma'am. Because I didn't save nothing.	29:12
Kisha Turner	Oh, okay.	29:15
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, it was my fourth. I wasn't a bad man. I wasn't at the bottom of the ladder, but I wasn't at the top of it. In between. But one thing, I never did smoke or drink when that happened. Of course, after we get back here and we stop my father and my father-in-law, then my father was renting some land from White land, and we worked on that. Then they bought this place, and I start off of it. Then we bought this. This land that you're sitting on now is out of my family. I bought them out about six or seven owners, but this little piece of land wasn't nothing but 10 acres. I bought them all out and then rebuilt.	29:17
Kisha Turner	You built your home?	30:26
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes, ma'am.	30:29
Kisha Turner	Was there any change in New Zion from the time you went to Philly till the time you came back?	30:34
Abraham B. Fleming	Very little.	30:41
Kisha Turner	Okay.	30:42
Abraham B. Fleming	It was about the same. When I came back there, some of them had never made no progress and they had been working for the other man. Then after we get back, then the White decided after they want to integrate and they say the Black going to go to school with the White. Then the White people took all the crop and make them work daily. You had many of them sharecropping. Then when you was a sharecropper, you get the share and the [indistinct 00:31:27] get the crop. You ought to know something about farming, what you did it back in your, where you came from.	30:43
Kisha Turner	Me?	31:47
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah.	31:47
Kisha Turner	Nah, I lived in a suburban neighborhood.	31:47
Abraham B. Fleming	Suburban.	31:47
Kisha Turner	Yeah. We just had the backyard. That was all.	31:47
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. Well, you don't know anything about that so we wouldn't go into that. But that's what happened.	31:47
Kisha Turner	No, I'd love to hear about it.	31:50
Abraham B. Fleming	Of course, that wouldn't work. They find out one thing they find out, they decide if you was a member of the NAACP and you living on my place and I find out, I make you move. That was the punishment. Then you couldn't go to the bank and borrow any money. We had it so that they wouldn't gin the cotton if you was on your one place. Right around here, right up at the [indistinct 00:32:31] if you was a member of the NAACP. But we had one man in Summerton, who was ginning the cotton, they don't care who.	31:53
Kisha Turner	Who it was.	32:40
Abraham B. Fleming	That's right.	32:41
Kisha Turner	Okay. Everyone had to take their cotton?	32:43
Abraham B. Fleming	Someone had to carry the cotton to this particular gin, and then when they find out it was going to happen, then they stop. That change, so I got a good friend, I use his barn, not get anything [indistinct 00:33:07] White fella. Now he told me, he said what they were doing, I knew that. I told him, I said, "Now if you run all these Black people off your farm," I said, "I'm going to come to your farm and I'm going to find you between some trees with about two acres because you can't work the land." He lasted two years, and that same man, I was stand up rubbing arm together on the back of a truck talking. He told me about who had made some move and he wasn't going to do that because for him, [indistinct 00:33:47] back in his bone, he would've to build a platform up there. He couldn't stand up on the tiers. He said, "No, I ain't. They can do what they want. I ain't going to do."	32:46
Abraham B. Fleming	Of course, the same man when they find out they was to integrate, they tried to get a private school. Some of them do have private school. His son was raised up with the family on this place, and this man, I was in school together. He had, I think about 10 or 11 children, something like that. A lot of number. When they get down to the financial part, this man told him and he said, "Well, I ain't going to put nothing in it." Said, "My boy," called him Duke, he said, "Been playing with niggers all his life. They ain't hurt him yet." He said, "I ain't going to put a nickel in," and he walk out. We integrated, we went on there to East Clandon, [indistinct 00:34:59].	33:59
Kisha Turner	What's it called?	34:56
Abraham B. Fleming	East Clandon. That's our school here in District Three.	34:57
Kisha Turner	Okay.	35:03
Abraham B. Fleming	Of course, Walker Gamble, my father-in-law, and a good friend, Gamble, they sold the land to build that school. Yeah. My wife father, so other than that, we get along pretty good in this area.	35:04
Kisha Turner	Can we talk a little bit more about early, I guess civil rights and were you involved in any way in the activities? I know it happened over in Summerton with Scott's Branch, but I know it was happening.	35:28
Abraham B. Fleming	It was happening really all over.	35:44
Kisha Turner	All over. Exactly.	35:46
Abraham B. Fleming	All over. Yeah. [indistinct 00:35:50] involvement, that also happened to people and telling them what to do. We met several times and decide what we could do, how we could do it nonviolence.	35:48
Kisha Turner	Right.	36:02
Abraham B. Fleming	Of course it'd work out.	36:02
Kisha Turner	Were you a member of the NAACP?	36:07
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes, ma'am. A lifetime membership.	36:09
Kisha Turner	Okay.	36:15
Abraham B. Fleming	We bought it through our annual conference. When I was in Philadelphia, I was getting ready, well they didn't know what I was getting ready to leave. A man came, I think from New York, and he asked about joining. We didn't know anything about it. I just thought it was an organization right in the northern state. I told him, I said, "Well I would join, but I'm fixing to go South and I ain't coming back." He said, well he going be down there. Certainly, after two years it was here, and then we joined. They find out, the White find out that they couldn't stop it, and of course they just have to back off.	36:15
Kisha Turner	What was it like in terms of, you said y'all got along pretty well around here. Do you remember any signs of segregation or Jim Crow areas that you couldn't go to or certain things you had to do?	37:19
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, yeah. [indistinct 00:37:37] yeah. Yeah. We couldn't vote, and you couldn't even, right where you turned to come here this morning, that man, he sold cars. Voting days, you couldn't go in at the front door. When they [indistinct 00:37:53] front door. You had certain places they couldn't sit out and eat with you. You couldn't eat with. If they're selling barbecue or something like that, they'd cut a hole in a crack in the wall. You had to go there and get what you want whiles the White walking through the door. But see all that vanished away, cut out all of that.	37:32
Kisha Turner	When did all that stop?	38:20
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, that stopped, let's see. It was, I guess what '52, something like that. Now, they begging you to come.	38:27
Kisha Turner	Spend your money.	38:37
Abraham B. Fleming	To spend your money. The same people that I know where their grandfathers and their father taught the children and they came up with the same idea that we wasn't as much as far, he wasn't human, and we shouldn't have the same treatment that they get. Those same young men now who grow up along with me begging you to come, go up there. When you walk in there, they treat you this as nice as can be.	38:38
Kisha Turner	What do you think about that?	39:17
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, it make me go because of the fact I couldn't do it all the other time.	39:23
Kisha Turner	Okay, okay.	39:27
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. I walk in there and get what I want just like there, but all the other times you couldn't do it. Their food wouldn't actually, and this couldn't digest if a Black person was in there. That's what they say, you know.	39:27
Kisha Turner	Right, right.	39:46
Abraham B. Fleming	But it wasn't true. I stayed on the school board as a trustee at East Clandon 15 years. What happened, he's still there and I give up for another young Black man, but they wouldn't vote for him. I just get enough of it at my age. See, I'm 80 years old. Of course we had good relationship and we had one with two Black, but we stuck [indistinct 00:40:27] and one White fella told me, "Now, see they talking about you." I said, "What's that?" Said they say one thing, if you believe it's right, you ain't going change it. I said, "No, I'm going to serve everybody." He brought this offering, his little dumb son, I wouldn't tell that, saying if fellas say they something they would do if y'all wasn't there, they would do it, and it wasn't right. I said, "Well, I know how to tell that. We knew that all the time." But we, as Black Americans, we came a long ways in this area.	39:46
Kisha Turner	Do you remember the KKK or the White Citizens Council or any of these?	41:21
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, I heard of that. I don't know too much about it. It was in this area, but we don't have it. Now in some areas, is some place now, but we don't have any problems with it here.	41:27
Kisha Turner	Did you take the train up at Philly when you went in '36?	41:42
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. No, I rode with my wife's cousin. Well hey, I went on the train from Baltimore into Philly. I went on out there because I had the address, the where I was going and I get a cab and they carry me on out there.	41:51
Kisha Turner	Now when did you return to school? To Morris you said?	42:07
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh, let's see. I been preaching now 33 years, and '49. I can't hardly tell what year I went into preaching 33 years. After I was called into the minister, then I went back to the seminary, I went to Morris. I stayed there seven years because we went to the night classes. I was working. I could farm, and then we had two nights a week on Tuesday night and Thursday night.	42:14
Kisha Turner	Where is Morris?	42:46
Abraham B. Fleming	That's in Sumter.	42:46
Kisha Turner	Okay. Okay.	42:46
Abraham B. Fleming	I work at [indistinct 00:42:57] university that's in Columbia.	42:55
Kisha Turner	You went to Allen after you went to?	42:58
Abraham B. Fleming	Morris. Yeah, I went to Allen four years after I complete my work at Morris.	43:01
Kisha Turner	Okay.	43:03
Abraham B. Fleming	See Morris was the Baptist institution, and Allen was the AME institution.	43:07
Kisha Turner	I see.	43:12
Abraham B. Fleming	Morris couldn't teach us too much about our ritual, the AME ritual, you know how we supposed to. We knew that before we went there. Wasn't but two AME preachers in that class, and our instructor told us one night said, "I'm quite sure these AME preachers got to read some because if they don't, they can't open their church." That was true, and so we went on the Allen University where they taught us our ritual. We had our books and everything. I was, let's see, I was well up in age when I went back to school, and of course I never had planned to preach.	43:15
Kisha Turner	No?	44:03
Abraham B. Fleming	No, ma'am.	44:03
Kisha Turner	You planned to just farm, right?	44:04
Abraham B. Fleming	Just farm. I was a baseball player, and he called me from the baseball field to the pulpit.	44:08
Kisha Turner	Where did you play baseball?	44:13
Abraham B. Fleming	Right here. Right here. Right. They have a good team. No one could hardly beat us. We had one of the best. Of course, my pastor and [indistinct 00:44:29] was behind me seven years before God put me in the pulpit. I said, "When I found myself, I was there," and my preacher said to me, he said, "You hardheaded, God called you the preach."	44:16
Abraham B. Fleming	I would attend church, superintendent of Sunday school, student trustees, everything, sing on the choir, but I never did want to preach because I saw what kind of time the preachers was having. I said, "I don't want to go through that," and [indistinct 00:45:11] told me, he said "You had a heart, God called you to preach. See now you ain't can see the white horse or a black cow." When I find myself, I was preaching and I wasn't in the ministry, but not much before they carried me, am I too fast for you?	44:49
Kisha Turner	No.	45:37
Abraham B. Fleming	Carried me to Andy Copeland brought me back to my home church. I stayed here eight years, lived the [indistinct 00:45:48] church.	45:38
Kisha Turner	What church?	45:49
Abraham B. Fleming	Right here. That same church you looking at.	45:50
Kisha Turner	Our Chapel.	45:53
Abraham B. Fleming	Our Chapel.	45:53
Kisha Turner	Okay.	45:53
Abraham B. Fleming	Then they moved me to Oak Grove, that's the church over there off 370, and they sent me to a church in Lima. Oak Grove and Lima were together, a sinker. Of course, they were 61 and a half mile apart. Of course, they say that was too far a distance between the two church. The only time I have any fellowship or communication would be when we have the elder quarter, and that would be every three months. I get that chance, and it brought me back to church right there in [indistinct 00:46:39]. My first church, I can get there in 10 minutes and I've been at that church. Now no idea. I stayed—	45:54

Abraham B. Fleming	So that's where we are. Of course now in a few more years I'm planning to retire, not from preaching. But from the responsibilities of getting the budget to report. See, we have a large budget to report.	0:03
Kisha Turner	What role has the church played as far as you can see in Black communities since you were a child until now?	0:27
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, they doing a good job now, much better. Well, they more better financially to help. Now, in my church, the Missionary Society in the larger church, I have a community Sunday. They give me a check to give to the sick people, and they go around and ministers to 'em and, if necessary, clean their house and pray with them. You see, a lot of time, the people really don't need financial help. They need guidance. Say a good prayer, a good song, with someone who can't attend church would lift them for a long time. And they're doing a great job. I got three circles in my church, and all of them working real good. The missionary at the church, at the other church, both of them been working real good in order to help people and show people the right way.	0:37
Kisha Turner	Do you remember during, again, the early civil rights struggles here, did people often meet in churches?	1:54
Abraham B. Fleming	Churches, that's right. We had churches. That's correct.	2:01
Kisha Turner	You said you couldn't vote. When did you first vote?	2:21
Abraham B. Fleming	When I first vote? When I came back here. Let's see. I came back in '46. It was, I think, '47. A man there was running for senator and then that's when the train, the Black rail, that's when we could vote because I was [indistinct 00:02:49] from this man and his son was in the race. And he said he knew I wasn't voting. And I could vote. All I had to do was get my certificate. I was going to get it, but I didn't have it at that particular time. They was just setting up places to get it. So they was in [indistinct 00:03:13] that same day. And he said, [indistinct 00:03:17], that [indistinct 00:03:19] the place. I forget the name of the place. Then the office around there, say go around that and sign up. I'd like for you to vote for my son. So I went around there. I didn't have any problem.	2:24
Abraham B. Fleming	They had Whites in there and, of course, they get rid of me very quickly. They was talking to some White couldn't read and the lawyer was there and he knew that you had to read. And of course they couldn't read, and then they start talking about the one man, said, "These men here, son play ball. They got good boys." They [indistinct 00:04:03]. Yeah, they said, one of them said, "Oh, I left my glasses." You know, making excuses. One man was like, "Can you see out of mine?" But man, he couldn't read. And so they get me out of there. They took me to a table. I read the constitution. [indistinct 00:04:28]. I could vote and that was it. And then [indistinct 00:04:32] you know.	3:33
Abraham B. Fleming	The sad thing about it, honey, is a lot of people sits in heaven and get they registration certificates. It was real [indistinct 00:04:48]. You see, after three years you don't use it, it expire.	4:36
Kisha Turner	Yeah.	4:49
Abraham B. Fleming	Then you get to go over it again. And then I've had, when I was working at the pole, I've had Black come in there and get the White man to help him. Not too many, but a few. And you vote the way you he want you to vote. But that's how we get started in this area.	4:54
Kisha Turner	Between the time where you couldn't vote and then you were able to vote, was there any organizing or any activity to try to get Black people voting?	5:25
Abraham B. Fleming	Well yeah, there was Fleming, Fleming was the man. He was our top man and he was the one that would bring us together and have meetings. I know you heard of him because he was the man.	5:37
Kisha Turner	Okay. For voting rights?	5:55
Abraham B. Fleming	Right. And he was the one that get the first Black students in East Atlanta. I would pass Mr. Emerson Wheeler was the top man over here. And of course, one of them— And I would pass his house. These people were very liked, obviously [indistinct 00:06:27]. And he was sitting up in the front seat beside him. I call him [indistinct 00:06:32] you know. And then I thought it was, it was our own people but it was light-skinned, he looked like. The other man [indistinct 00:06:36]. But we went on to East Atlanta and we didn't have any problem over there. No more than just talk but the funny thing is they had major problems. Like they had these lynch mob ready to turn the bus over. And when I passed them— We didn't have that here in East Clandon.	5:56
Kisha Turner	All right. You mentioned the NAACP. What people in the community belonged to the NAACP?	7:06
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, I wouldn't say all but we got quite a few in here had been a member, I guess they still are.	7:17
Kisha Turner	Okay.	7:23
Abraham B. Fleming	So for me to tell you this who now, I can't.	7:30
Kisha Turner	No, not who. Okay.	7:30
Abraham B. Fleming	All right. I might have missed the point.	7:38
Kisha Turner	Oh no. I was just, in the sense of— Let me see. Were there mainly like people that owned their own land or was it everyone? People who rented?	7:39
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, after that act passed in '52. Wasn't it '52? 1952 I believe. Anyone, don't matter if whether you [indistinct 00:08:00] Atlanta North, if you go to the man at the register and get your certificate they can vote. Whether you had in Atlanta North. You know, because one time, is you saying [indistinct 00:08:13] you were right, you had to own property. But now they cut that out anyway. And you don't have to read now. All you do is go ahead and sign your name. Of course, we got somebody at the poll to assist you, you know.	7:48
Kisha Turner	Okay. What about fraternal organizations? Like the Masons?	8:29
Abraham B. Fleming	Oh yeah, we got that. I'm one. Yeah.	8:38
Kisha Turner	Okay.	8:38
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah, yes, we got that.	8:41
Kisha Turner	And when you were a child, I know we're kind of going backwards again.	8:47
Abraham B. Fleming	That's all right. Anything you want to say.	8:50
Kisha Turner	If someone got sick in your house, who took care of you?	8:53
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, back in those days when I was a child, parents mostly took care of you. Very seldom you would go to a doctor. They had this home remedy. When I came along, and I know you don't know what I'm talking about but I'm gonna tell you. When I came along when we had a bad cold we would get the long leaf pine tar and the fattest [indistinct 00:09:38] we can find and they called black molasses. Something you go in the field and get. And put that in pot or kettle and boil it to a low tea and drink that. That's how we— That was our doctor, they doctor us.	9:00
Kisha Turner	Okay.	9:58
Abraham B. Fleming	But nowadays, that don't work now because nobody don't take time for that. But that's how we get along. Just use that home remedy and take care of the children. Because they didn't have any money.	10:07
Kisha Turner	So how about, did your mother make your clothing?	10:23
Abraham B. Fleming	No ma'am, because my mother couldn't sew. Some of the mothers would make clothing. That lady you see on that wall, she made all of her daughters clothes and some of the boys. She was a seamstress. But back in my time, we had one Sunday shirt, one suit, one pair of shoes and that's all. And so now I don't have any clothes, all my suites something I done started wearing [indistinct 00:11:14] suit. But back in those times we just had one.	10:26
Kisha Turner	Okay. Thank you. So your mother purchased clothes for you?	11:32
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes ma'am.	11:36
Kisha Turner	Okay. Were there any Black businesses in the area?	11:39
Abraham B. Fleming	No ma'am. [indistinct 00:11:44] Black businesses.	11:42
Kisha Turner	Do you remember Black businesses in Philadelphia?	11:45
Abraham B. Fleming	I remember some, but I can't recall right now. We had several Black businesses in Philadelphia. We had several of them there.	11:49
Kisha Turner	Okay.	11:59
Abraham B. Fleming	Now, we have some Black business here now. Like, [indistinct 00:12:07] funeral home here and [indistinct 00:12:10] registry. We'll credit with them. You've got three funeral homes right here in Manning.	12:03
Kisha Turner	Right.	12:14
Abraham B. Fleming	And I think three in Summerton.	12:16
Kisha Turner	Oh, really? Okay.	12:16
Abraham B. Fleming	They got three in Summerton. And then we Black cleaner, you know. [indistinct 00:12:24] Cleaners they in Manning. Then we have, a good friend of mine, she run a restaurant that [indistinct 00:12:33] Manning on Main Street. Black restaurant that's owned by Black.	12:16
Kisha Turner	What's it called?	12:39
Abraham B. Fleming	She's Mary's Kitchen, that's the name of it.	12:40
Kisha Turner	Oh, okay. I've seen that.	12:44
Abraham B. Fleming	You saw it? Yeah, they was all right. But we don't have no Black banks in Manning and no Black loaning office. You got to go to the White to get that. I think if we could get one of those the Black would come together. But as a whole, as you know, I reckon you ought to be old enough to know, we as Black don't trust one another too much. You know, with money.	12:46
Kisha Turner	Right.	13:20
Abraham B. Fleming	And then some of our people mess up so bad when you do trust them. And it's a fight in us, you know. If you get 10,000 dollars on you, you put it out there, you would have to accumulate some. If you got 10,000 on you, you would think before you invest that in anything. So that's our problem. We could do more in Black America if we could come together and trust each other. But we have them be messing up so bad. I had a brother-in-law was, when NAACP first began. This minister told him to carry they money to a Black bank in Columbia. And my brother-in-law was in the bank in Sumter to deposit his money. But this man told him, "Don't put no more money in the White bank." So he was in there one day and he heard this voice, and he knew it. And he said this cat was [indistinct 00:14:37]. And this man told them to carry they money to Columbia asked them how much was in my account [indistinct 00:14:42]. (laughs)	13:20
Kisha Turner	[indistinct 00:14:46] save them, huh?	14:45
Abraham B. Fleming	Yeah. You see if I tell you to do something, I ought to be doing it.	14:47
Kisha Turner	Right.	14:52
Abraham B. Fleming	You agree with that?	14:53
Kisha Turner	I agree.	14:54
Abraham B. Fleming	All right. So that's our problem. We ought to have plenty, plenty Black establishment in west of here. I thought so.	14:55
Kisha Turner	Yeah. It should be more, but there's some here.	15:04
Abraham B. Fleming	Some here. Well, I think all over now. There's some all over now. We're getting a little more. Aware of what's going on and coming more to our senses.	15:13
Kisha Turner	Yeah. And final question is just, again, going back. How did you celebrate holiday like Easter and Christmas when you were young?	15:27
Abraham B. Fleming	When I was young? Now you want the truth, just jumping up and kicking up my heels and turning over. And Christmas now— I do that to make you laugh. Christmas during my time, our parents was poor, but they did the best they could for the children. They would get us a little part just to, three oranges, maybe two apples, a little bit of candy and warm milk. And we'd go to bed early because they say Santa Claus coming. And we didn't want to be awake when he comes.	15:36
Abraham B. Fleming	We'd set a chair out there and each one would know— There was two in our house and we'd know where our chair was. We'd go down there and have that [indistinct 00:16:41], "Oh, man. Santa Claus came." We'd be the happiest thing in the world. And we'd be popping them little [indistinct 00:16:47]. And we celebrate it right. And on the Fourth of July, usually they would carry us to a ball game, you know we had ball games in the area. And they would carry us to them. And when I became large enough to play ball then that would be on the Fourth of July now.	16:27
Abraham B. Fleming	You turn us loose at 12:00. These White people would [indistinct 00:17:17] instead of working you to 12 now. But they would get off in the afternoon. And then some of them would work all day, work all day.	17:11
Kisha Turner	How did your cousin come to live with y'all?	17:33
Abraham B. Fleming	What happened, my grandmother raised us.	17:37
Kisha Turner	Okay.	17:41
Abraham B. Fleming	And then when she get too old, she couldn't take care of us, then my mother took over and took care of her. My mother ascended at 94.	17:43
Kisha Turner	Really?	17:51
Abraham B. Fleming	Really. My father was 96 when he passed.	17:51
Kisha Turner	Wow, okay. All right then.	17:51
Abraham B. Fleming	And now I'm 80. I don't know if I'll make it to 90 or not.	17:52
Kisha Turner	You will. You will.	18:10
Abraham B. Fleming	I'm praying on it, but I'm feeling pretty good.	18:15
Kisha Turner	I'm just going to turn it. [INTERRUPTION] All right. You can tell me a little bit about Hoover times and WPA and stuff like that.	18:18
Abraham B. Fleming	Hoover times.	18:25
Kisha Turner	Okay.	18:26
Abraham B. Fleming	All right. In Hoover times, we didn't have much food. I'm going to give it to you like a— We worked on the farm and didn't make no money. And President Roosevelt opened up this job for us. And it was paying 50 cent a day. And there was people that lived on the farm, you know I told you my cousin was a share cropper. They wasn't paying but 47 a day and they get themself together and cut back, had the government cut back to 40 cent a day.	18:29
Abraham B. Fleming	So I worked WPA for 5 cent an hour cutting bushes, dig ditches and dig stumps, trees. Whatever could be done. And when they left the 47 for a day, 5 cent an hour, then they went to 2.50. By me not having a family and living with my mother and father, I couldn't get a job there. They give my father the job and they paid $2.50 a day. And we had one White fellow in this area, they allowed him to plant a acre of turnips and every Friday my father could come by there and get a bag of those turnips and a piece of salt meat there. That's how I came.	19:12
Kisha Turner	And this was in the '30s?	20:25
Abraham B. Fleming	In the '30s. That's right.	20:26
Kisha Turner	Do you know, when they started paying $2.50 a day, instead of 50 cents, 40 cents a day what brought about that increase in the money?	20:31
Abraham B. Fleming	Well, they fired a whole lot of people that was working on that job rather didn't have no responsibility, see? My father was taking care of me.	20:41
Kisha Turner	Okay.	20:57
Abraham B. Fleming	And [indistinct 00:20:58] we both out there working for 40 cent, but they said, they came up with a plan. They'd give the head of the house the job and pay $2 and a half a day and sort of help them out with turnips and that salt meat. You get that every Friday. So that caused the children to go home. I was a child at that time.	20:57
Kisha Turner	Okay. And how long did you and your father do that?	21:23
Abraham B. Fleming	Lord, I think that lasted about two years.	21:28
Kisha Turner	Were there a lot of people who worked as WPA?	21:37
Abraham B. Fleming	Yes ma'am. A lot of people. Everybody on the [indistinct 00:21:41]. I'll never forget the White fellas [indistinct 00:21:47]. He and I was in the same ditch. And our payroll for nine days wasn't but $13.30.	21:43
Kisha Turner	Nine days?	21:59
Abraham B. Fleming	For nine days work. And he in the ditch right behind me and asked me about farming because he had six children. And I didn't had any. Now how in the world could he take $13.30 and feed six children and a wife? [indistinct 00:22:27].	22:00
Kisha Turner	Yeah.	22:31
Abraham B. Fleming	(laughs) So I didn't fall for that. I told him I reckon I would farm. So I went and farmed with another man and throughout the year, of course I did pretty good according to [indistinct 00:22:48]. He give me two acres in the back and I made good off of that. And back when selling them, when you get 30 cent a pound back then, great dog. You was top man. And I sold most of mine at the end for 30 cent. We didn't use much money, because we didn't have much. And he told me, when we make that crop let's make another cheap crop. And that's when I went to Philadelphia.	22:33
Kisha Turner	Okay. Did the WPA workers ever organize?	23:34
Abraham B. Fleming	No, they didn't organize. Some of them couldn't work on the WPS if they on this White land place and they said I need you on the farm. You couldn't go out there and work.	23:42
Kisha Turner	Okay, so if you were share cropping and the person told you you could go, you couldn't go and get that extra money?	23:55
Abraham B. Fleming	No, you couldn't get there. You couldn't do it at all.	24:02
Kisha Turner	Do you remember a lot of land owners telling people who worked for them, "No, you can't go out there."	24:06
Abraham B. Fleming	No I couldn't stand here and say that, but I know it happened. It happened.	24:12
Kisha Turner	Yeah.	24:18
Abraham B. Fleming	But, on the stand, I couldn't do it. But it happened.	24:21
Kisha Turner	I believe you.	24:21
Abraham B. Fleming	All right.	24:21
Kisha Turner	Okay. Well, thank you.	24:31
Abraham B. Fleming	See, because of the fact most of them was living in what they called their houses. They'd build a house for you, you know, [indistinct 00:24:44]. Wouldn't seal it. Just something to keep the rain and, some rain ran off of it. Not all of it now. And so that's how he really came, and thank God he made it. A [indistinct 00:24:58] for prayers. His guidance, so we have a better day now. The [indistinct 00:25:11], Black America, now that they honor him.	24:32
Abraham B. Fleming	We was talking about that yesterday, I think. [indistinct 00:25:19] at the funeral [indistinct 00:25:25] and he was discussing that. And there how they would treat you when you [indistinct 00:25:35]. Give me my house. That's stop me from marrying as early as I would've married. Because there were days the man looking for me to come to work and I didn't work. And I planned to marry, he knew it. He said no, when you marry, you got to work when you sick. So, I didn't marry and I put him down. So at that particular time, honey, we didn't own anything.	25:16
Kisha Turner	Right.	26:17
Abraham B. Fleming	You was living with another man. Cleaning up and you were drinking water as it come up out of the ground. But it was the only place. And those trees the Lord put out there in the woods, but they own them.	26:19
Kisha Turner	Right.	26:36
Abraham B. Fleming	Baby, you don't know nothing about that. But I'm telling you. And that's how we lived but thank God, we own some company also. So I'm content and encourage you to go get your education. Finish and you won't have to come and see what I can. Then when you get married and your husband don't live up to your expectation, you say, oh. Don't fuss and fight, say we just can't make it without being able to make money.	26:40
Kisha Turner	Yeah. Your right.	27:24
Abraham B. Fleming	So if you do that for me, everything will be all right.	27:30
Kisha Turner	All right. Thank you.	27:38

Item Info

Title:

Abraham Fleming interview recording, 1995 July 03

Date:

July 3, 1995

Creator:

Fleming, Abraham B.

Contributor:

Turner, Kisha

Description:

Name: Abraham B. Fleming; Date of birth: 1920-03-05; Place of birth: New Zion, SC; Occupation(s): agriculture; clergyman; preacher; Residence: New Zion, SC
Informant ID: 1206; Interviewed by: Kisha Turner.

Occupation:

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

See below

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-1480
46810245-650f-4fab-8bd4-a5425da2d38a
behindtheveil
8445dec3-3067-4443-875e-de47c9353ae3
ark:/87924/r43n2bp9r
8445dec3-3067-4443-875e-de47c9353ae3

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https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r43n2bp9r

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Abraham Fleming interview recording, 1995 July 03

Transcript

Item Info

1. Abraham Fleming administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Abraham Fleming interview recording, 1995 July 03

Transcript

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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