Annie Fisher interview recording, 1994 June 16

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Stacey Scales	Start by asking you to state your name and how long have you lived in the Birmingham area?	0:01
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Okay. My name is Annie Ruth Fisher and I have lived here all my life. I was born in Birmingham. Now you need my age. (laughs)	0:06
Stacey Scales	Well we can get that later. Doesn't have to go on the record. Do you remember your grandparents?	0:21
Annie Lockhart Fisher	No. I remember my grandmother on my mother's side. I was about six years old when she died though. And my other grandparents, my grandfather, he had died before that. And my daddy's parents, I don't remember them. They died before I was even born.	0:30
Stacey Scales	Did they ever have any stories about segregation they would tell, or maybe being treated unfairly?	0:49
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Now my grandmother on my mother's side, that's the only one I remember. And because I was six years old, I don't recall her. She could have, but I really don't recall any stories that she told, really. And if she did, I guess maybe I just was playing and didn't pay too much attention then at that time.	0:54
Stacey Scales	Were they from Birmingham too?	1:19
Annie Lockhart Fisher	She was living in Birmingham when she died. But no, she was from down below Columbus, Georgia, I believe I heard my mother and them say.	1:24
Stacey Scales	So what made them want to come to this area?	1:32
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Now I don't know about my grand—Oh, I heard my mother say that after her daddy died and her mother got so she couldn't take by herself, they was five or six sisters of them, so she came up here to live with them then. I guess so that they could all see about her because her husband had died. That's about all I really know about her. Now about my mother and my daddy, they said they came up here—My daddy used to work at Columbus, Georgia at the—and then when they got married they decided to come to Birmingham to live. That's where we were born, all three of us born Birmingham.	1:33
Stacey Scales	Where did you have first work?	2:33
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Where did I first work?	2:36
Stacey Scales	Yes.	2:41
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well, when I was in school in the summertime, I don't guess you interested in those. But the first real job that I had was at University Hospital. It was university then, because they call it UAB now. I worked there for 33 and a half years. I retired with 33 and a half years from there. I took up the nursing course and after I finished high school and decided there—Well we took it up from there, and then we got hired there.	2:41
Stacey Scales	What high school did you go to?	3:19
Annie Lockhart Fisher	AH Parker High.	3:22
Stacey Scales	Could you tell me more about that school?	3:23
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well it's a good school.	3:33
Stacey Scales	Or about the teachers.	3:33
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Let me see. Well the teachers in that time, they were pretty good teachers, some better than others. I had some favorite teachers up there. Let me see. I remember Miss AH Harris was one of my homeroom teachers, she was a real good teacher. And there was quite a few of them that were good teacher. It was a pretty good school at the town. And at that time they didn't have too many high schools open then, I think. And Parker had football teams and we really led the way because there wasn't too many more high schools. But now they got so many and so much competition. But Parker—I tell you my grandchildren, I don't have but two, and my daughter, they all wanted to go to Parker because it had had a good name and everything. But now the grandchildren, see they had a choice because they had so many other high schools had them come over from there. But they still just listened from it, wanted to go to Parker.	3:36
Stacey Scales	So what'd you take up at Parker, what you study?	5:00
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well I took up all the base courses that were required and extra activities. I wanted to be in the choir. And let me see, did I join the nurses—For a little while because I didn't have no idea that I was going to ever work in the hospital, but had to choose something. So I was in it for a little while before—And the senior year, I think, I took up—They had a nursing requirement, small part. And I took it up. As I said, I ain't had no idea working in no hospital. But that was just a portion to fill out my school year.	5:00
Stacey Scales	What neighborhood did you live in here in Birmingham?	5:42
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I was born and raised in Smithfield. You heard of West Smithfield? Mm-hmm, and then I lived in Smithfield. I went to school and finished down there. And then we moved up on the hill. This is the second place up on the hill moved because first place, the freeway came along and then we moved here. And I've been here for—	5:48
Stacey Scales	Was it an all Black area where you were living?	6:18
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, all Black area.	6:20
Stacey Scales	Did most people rent their home or own it?	6:24
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, in Smithfield, most of them. Quite a few. There was few of them but most, it was a great deal of them that were rented. And then when we moved up on the hill, my daddy bought a house. And then when the freeway come along, got that, we moved here.	6:26
Stacey Scales	When you say on the hill, where do you talk about?	6:49
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well Enon Ridge a little farther over, they called. And then this is called Fountain Height. Now when we moved over here, it was mixed because our next door neighbor at first was a White family.	6:54
Stacey Scales	When did you move over here?	7:10
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Let me see. We've been here I think it was '63, 1963.	7:14
Stacey Scales	Did you hear of Dynamite Hill?	7:18
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Mm-hmm.	7:22
Stacey Scales	Could you tell me about it.	7:24
Annie Lockhart Fisher	It's not too far from here, up there where lawyer Shores and they did the dynamite—What is it? It's a nice place and some nice homes was up there. And lawyer Shores, I think home was the first home that they dynamited. Am I saying that right? And then they had one or two more up there. So I guess that's where it got its name to be Dynamite Hill.	7:27
Stacey Scales	Did you know anyone that lived over there?	8:06
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Mm-hmm, I had an aunt that had a lot up there. After the third, she sold it because she was afraid to keep it in bill up there, which she should have kept it. But I knew one or two—No, no, several people. Some of them personal, some of them just by name now like lawyer Shores. I knew him enough to speak to him whenever I see him. But I had one or two friends that lived up there.	8:10
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Let me see, and one of our—The last time—One of my choir members, one night when they were getting off from when they had bombed up there. She didn't even know they had bombed, had got off and coming up the hill, and you know how the police were shooting up in the air to make the crowd come back, and they all went running down the hill, running over her, knocked her down, broke her arm. But those were some days.	8:44
Stacey Scales	How'd you feel about that, when that happened?	9:18
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well didn't quite like it, that's when we started getting interested when they started having the meetings. Whenever I was off or a lot of times when I wasn't off I had to go to work at 10:30, be there at 10:30 at that time. I would go and stay to around nine, and rush home and go change clothes and run, go to work. But I mean, I was interested and I went to the meetings and everything. And they had the movement quiet and everything. But I wasn't in that because see a lot of times when we leave to go, when I leave to come home, they wasn't out then. I remember they used to meet at our church place a lot—	9:23
Stacey Scales	What's the name of your church?	10:12
Annie Lockhart Fisher	St. James Baptist Church. It was on Sixth Avenue and 11th Street North, at that time. I remember lots of time it would be running over and they standing, and the fire trucks would come up and come in and say, "You got to clear the aisles," and everything. But that was all I guess to disturb the meetings and everything. But we went right back again.	10:14
Stacey Scales	Yep. What's your earliest remembrances of Jim Crow, or when did you first recognize it?	10:45
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well, I remember that from a long time. I know that when you go to town you drink at one fountain, they drink at another one. You go in one bathroom, and they go in another one. And even at the hospital, I was over there when the federal government said that they had to mix the floors up. They didn't do it at first. They gave them a deadline, but the week coming up to it—Because they done come around one time and check. Then you could tell because they were switching them beds and getting them around so they could arrange for them come again.	10:56
Annie Lockhart Fisher	But I remember that from a long time when I was smaller and didn't have enough sense to know to let it bother me too much. But as I got older, if you got to get some water, that one fountain, you can't get no water, that fountain, you got to go to this fountain. And the bathrooms and things. But I remember that from quite a long time ago and I don't know, you could tell that you go to town, there was some could hide it pretty good, and there was some wouldn't.	11:38
Annie Lockhart Fisher	But as the way we'd be waited on, maybe I'm standing up here and you standing up here, and you the White one. They be like, they see that one first. But I guess it bothered some people more. It bothered all of us, but some of us showed it more so than others. Some of us—Well I was here first, I just waited and didn't say nothing and go on.	12:15
Stacey Scales	Did you have a large family? Were you from a large family?	12:43
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I had one brother and one sister, and I'm the oldest.	12:48
Stacey Scales	Who made the decisions in your family?	12:55
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well you mean according to the parents? My parents mostly made them.	13:02
Stacey Scales	Both of them?	13:06
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Uh-huh. Well my daddy and they sort of made them together. Sometimes he would say, "Well go ask your momma." And then sometimes they would just go and say yes. But most times, they sort of made them together.	13:07
Stacey Scales	Was there places that they wouldn't let you go?	13:24
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, well I came from a religious background. My daddy was a deacon, my mother was a deaconess. There was some places I just didn't ask to go, because I know I won't going to get to go there no how. But because I didn't go to too many, didn't even want to go to too many outside things that I know there was—Well it may not have been outside, it was outside for us then at the time. But they made decisions and they were pretty [indistinct 00:14:05] with what they thought was—It wasn't too far out the rim of their teaching. My brother, he's always been—He liked to play football and all like that. And so he got to go to games and things like that. Quite much anything the church had. But it was pretty good, pretty good.	13:28
Stacey Scales	Do you remember any hard times when maybe you didn't have?	14:40
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I'm going to tell the truth. Now, my daddy, when I knew him he was working. And even when they got kind of bad, he wasn't ever without a job, at his same job, because he worked on that same job from the time I knew him. When they cut down, they would either have three days maybe this week and two days next week. So he wasn't ever without a job. So we got along pretty good. Well I have heard some of the hard times, but I hadn't ever had just as hard as I have heard some of them. I've never been without any food, or any shoes or things like that.	14:50
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Mean I didn't have as many as we got now. But as I said, he always had a job because he was working there when I remembered and he retired from there. And so when the times got kind of bad and they said cut down from a whole week, they would even give him either three days this week or maybe two days the next week. So, that always made him have a little something coming in.	15:31
Stacey Scales	Did the community ever suffer and maybe need some help from the family? Was there ever a crisis in the community where people had to get together?	15:59
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Don't remember any big crisis that I remember. I know my mother and them, they were generous and they would share things. But I don't—It could have been some big crisis, but they didn't share it with us. And as I said, I really don't remember any big crisis and everything. Now, we didn't move a lot. We stayed in the house that we—I could almost count the houses that we have lived in. So I guess I know some peoples have some harder times than we had, because we have heard about them and said, like at church one Sunday they later was sharing the fact that—She was a little bit older than me, and some of the things that in the country, what they didn't have and everything. And so she said, "Don't you remember that?" I said, "No." She said, "You don't remember that?"	16:14
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I said, "Well I tell you the truth, I was born and reared in Birmingham. I've never stayed in the country no more than two weeks at a time, when I went to visit an aunt of mine." She said, "Oh well then I can understand." Though, but some of those things they would talk about what happened down there, I really hadn't experienced that. And I thank the Lord for it, I know that was a blessing. But as I said, ever since I had known my daddy he did have a job. Even when it was bad, then when it got better they went back to full time.	17:19
Stacey Scales	Where did he work?	17:56
Annie Lockhart Fisher	McWane pipe shop.	17:58
Stacey Scales	At the pipe shop.	17:58
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Uh-huh.	18:00
Stacey Scales	Did he ever have the folks there treat him bad ever, or did he ever have any experiences? Negative experiences?	18:03
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I have heard my dad say he knew that before, when it was segregated, I've heard them just talk about little incidents that happens or things like that. But I haven't heard him talk of any bad, real bad things. Now it could have happened and he just didn't shared with us. He probably shared it with my momma. But I've heard him talk about little incidents and things happen. But I don't remember any and I couldn't say that it hadn't been, nor now.	18:13
Stacey Scales	How has Birmingham changed over the years? Or has it?	18:53
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, it has changed some but I know it all ain't gone away. But it done changed a lot from what it used to be. Because even in the towns, and the stores, and the things when it was segregated wasn't no Black folks had no jobs behind the counters or all like that. That was all White. But it's a young lady go to our church, when Pizitz was down there, which is now McRae. I remember her being one of the first Black sales ladies they had. And they talked about that for a good while. And then they gradually got to add some more. And I'm sure that they may not have been—But they still were salespersons. And that was something that we hadn't had, no salespeople. They were working there but they were doing other kind of jobs.	18:58
Stacey Scales	So where would you go to shop or where would you go for entertainment during that time?	19:51
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well we had to go to the stores to shop. I remember until they had the first boycott down there—of course, you know when they have a boycott, everybody still, there's a few of them still. But I remember the first boycott they had and they was asking the Blacks to stay out the stores and things. But we had to go through—Well I didn't have to go cause I didn't break the boycott. But I'm talking about before that, that's where you had to shop. You had to go there because of we didn't had no more to go to then.	20:04
Stacey Scales	So was it any Black businesses around that you could support?	20:39
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I think not, I don't know. I don't suppose we had any, but no Black big business? No, no Black big business. Maybe some little bitty, little smaller shops sometimes. And sometimes they didn't stay too long cause they didn't get the support that they should have gotten, see? And maybe they didn't get the support they should have had because they didn't have the merchandise that the big stores had. And because when we went to the theaters, they were segregated too. We had our one or two Black theaters to go to. And then they had they White one. Then when they did start integrating them, we could go to the White theaters.	20:48
Stacey Scales	How'd you feel about being separated from people?	21:42
Annie Lockhart Fisher	What would you mean, from—?	21:54
Stacey Scales	The White folks on the bus or in the theater? Having your own section.	21:54
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Now we had one theater down there, the Lyric Theatre, in the time the Black could go there. But you went up in the balcony, and the White folks were sat up in the first floor. Well I didn't quite like it, because you got to come out on stairs to get up there. But sometimes you didn't have no more to go to. So if something was showing they would go, they would be full up there. I didn't go too powerful much, every now and then I went to the theater and that's what I had to go to through. And didn't quite like it, but that was all we had at the time.	21:57
Stacey Scales	What did your mother do? I mean what was her job?	22:44
Annie Lockhart Fisher	She was just a housewife, all of my life, I've known her to be a housewife.	22:46
Stacey Scales	So she raised three children?	22:53
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Three children.	22:57
Stacey Scales	Was she from Birmingham?	22:57
Annie Lockhart Fisher	No, she was from Peachville Alabama I believe I heard her say. From Alabama but not from Birmingham.	23:03
Stacey Scales	Oh, okay.	23:09
Annie Lockhart Fisher	That was in the country when they come up.	23:11
Stacey Scales	So what attracted her to Birmingham?	23:13
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I guess got married. She was the baby of 12 children, and she had grown sisters and things that had married and come to the town, they say. So when she got married, her and my daddy moved to Columbus, Georgia. And he worked at the camp out there laying pipes. Well then they decided they wanted to come to Birmingham. So I guess that's what attracted them up there.	23:20
Stacey Scales	So would you say that you have the same values as your parents and your grandparents?	23:49
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, pretty much so. Pretty much so.	23:54
Stacey Scales	Was church mandatory?	23:57
Annie Lockhart Fisher	In a way. I mean, I just have always thought when Sunday come it was just time to go to church and we just went to church because—And see my sister and my brother, he was the baby they—Well we were just raised up, and that's just what we thought we were supposed to do. When Sunday come, we have to go to church. And because my sister, at an early age, about 11, she started playing the piano. So she played for one of the choirs. So she was going to go and we were just—It wasn't really no big thing about going because we just thought that that's what we supposed to do, go to church on Sunday.	24:02
Stacey Scales	Did your father own a car? [indistinct 00:24:59].	24:55
Annie Lockhart Fisher	He finally had when the Fords first come out. My daddy was a veteran of the World War II. No, one. I'm sorry, this going to be over here, one. And finally, I remember when we was kind of young, when he got a Ford, the Fords supposed to come out. So we had a car. I think that the World War I veterans got a bonus that time, and yeah, we were kind of young, I never forget that. And he bought a Ford car. So that made us have a car off and on most of the time.	24:59
Stacey Scales	So did you all take trips and go—?	25:42
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, look, we had went to for Fort Mitchell, Alabama, that's below Columbus, Georgia. So my daddy, had a sister that lived down there. And we would go down there sometimes and see her in the summertime, and take little trips and things. Didn't take a heap of them, but you know—	25:45
Stacey Scales	Did you go outside of the state?	26:09
Annie Lockhart Fisher	You mean in my lifetime?	26:13
Stacey Scales	Well no I mean—	26:16
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Oh when I—	26:17
Stacey Scales	When your father had the car or during the Jim Crow—	26:17
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Went to Georgia, Columbus, Georgia.	26:21
Stacey Scales	How was it traveling on the highway?	26:25
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I don't ever recall us having any consultation with nobody going on the highway. As I said, didn't get that that often. But I do not remember having any. And I don't think he had no problem traveling on the highway with—I just said no because I don't remember any.	26:30
Stacey Scales	Did the family ever get together for reunions or family gatherings?	27:05
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, my dad's family was kind of small and they didn't live up here. But my mother's family was a large family, see because they were 12 children. She was the baby of them. So they used to have big dinners, and all of them come together. We had some pretty good times laughing they would play ball and we'd just have a big day and everything. So now I remember that well.	27:08
Stacey Scales	How did they function—I mean how did it go? Yeah, just get together on special holidays?	27:38
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, something like special holidays, maybe 4th of July or Labor Day, or just called together, and maybe those sisters they would have a big evening for whoever house is going to be, and maybe do the biggest cooking. But everybody bring a dish.	27:44
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	28:01
Annie Lockhart Fisher	And they just have great big time.	28:02
Stacey Scales	So did your family ever travel together outside of Alabama, like up to the north? Do you know any people that went north?	28:08
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I had some cousins and things of that, but no, I don't remember us travel up north.	28:23
Stacey Scales	Did you have a lot of friends that left for the north, stayed?	28:28
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah. Not a lot of them, but yes I had some cousins that had houses down here and they decided to go up north and live. And I had a few friends that are—Some when we finished school and they moved on up north. And so—	28:41
Stacey Scales	Did they ever tell you how it was up there compared to down here or—?	29:02
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, sometime I hear them say that—I have heard them say, "Well people think up north that you can—Everything is rosy, you can go everywhere," she said, "but it's some places up there they don't want you to go too. Even though you can go, but they don't want you to go." So I'm sure that—And I've heard them talking about when some places you were allowed to go in, you in and buy a drink or something. I have heard them say this, and then they throw the glass down there as you got through. So that let you know that didn't want you in there. But yet you could go in there. But I don't know of any just main major things such as heard people talking and going on like that.	29:07
Stacey Scales	Did you know of any people that could pass for White down here and maybe took advantage of it?	30:04
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, a few people I know. Far as that concern, my brother, he's light skinned, but he got hell like us and everything. But he worked at this grocery store, and the man had a son just about his age, just about George brother's age. And Alabama Theater right down there, Little Say used to come up here and laugh about it. He said they be talking about you couldn't go in there. He said, "Many times, me and George went—" He would take him to the Alabama with him. And he said because now he is light skinned and that's his picture up there on the end.	30:13
Annie Lockhart Fisher	But he got Colored folks hair and everything, you know. But him and Little Say was about the same age, and Little Say said he had took him in the Alabama Theater and they didn't know no better or didn't say nothing I guess because he was with him and he was light skinned, maybe they thought he was a a little dago. (laughs)	31:03
Annie Lockhart Fisher	And then brother and them laughed about, he done took Little Say in the Black theater. See if it was something was planned that they wanted to see. Now he didn't go for just passing because everybody, all of them knew him and knew that he was George, used to play for Parker at the football and all like that. But him and Little Say has did that, because they have laughed about it and came up here. Little Say has been in the house and talked about it like that. That's the only—I don't know, no other passing they did. But they did do that. Mm-hmm.	31:23
Stacey Scales	What age were you considered grown and what age did your parents recognize you as—	32:00
Annie Lockhart Fisher	As being a grown person? Well, in them days you, you didn't go to courting until you was 16. Most girls, were 16. So oh, about 18, 19 were considered grown or finished high school. And I had a little evening job. I would go in the evening after school, but still wasn't grown. You still had a certain amount of respect and everything you had to do. Now I can tell you this part. When I finished high school, they had a little shop downtown on Third Avenue, a little specialty shop they had.	32:05
Stacey Scales	What's the name on it?	32:46
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Let me see, what's the name of that shop? Madam Evelyn's shop.	32:50
Stacey Scales	Madam?	32:52
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Madam Evelyn.	32:52
Stacey Scales	Evans?	32:54
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Evelyn.	32:55
Stacey Scales	Oh, Madam Evelyn.	32:56
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Uh-huh. And the lady that stayed across the street from me, she was looking for somebody to work after school. But she specifically said that she would like a light-skinned person. So she told me about it, and I worked down there one summer. The summer while the school was out. That in a way was—She was White and everything, but still she wanted somebody to work but she wanted a light-skinned person to do—She treated me all right. She didn't have that much to say to me and I didn't have that much to say to her, far as that's concerned. But I got along all right though.	32:57
Stacey Scales	Did Black folks shop in this place?	33:45
Annie Lockhart Fisher	She had one or two specialties. The lady that—Mary Strong, who was running a funeral home that was considered a name. She bought—On one side of specialty of hats, where they make the hats. You come and pick out what you want. And she had one or two Black people. I know that she did. But otherwise, Black people hardly come in there. If they did, they were going to hardly buy the hats no how because they were too high. And a lot of time if I just kind of nod my head, because they going to come to me.	33:49
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I wasn't selling no hats, now I was just back there. Saw to where the material that they make these hats out off, getting stuff out like that. But she ain't had no Black person selling no hat. Don't even care if you were light skinned.	34:29
Stacey Scales	You couldn't sell a hat?	34:47
Annie Lockhart Fisher	No, I wasn't selling no hats. I may, I could go all up there, maybe just kind of straighten the hats off. See they made those, you got come in and pick you a crown and they shape it up like you want, and decorate it like you want. And just keeping the flowers, the ribbon and stuff like that. But I ain't sold no hat, now.	34:47
Stacey Scales	She wouldn't let you sell hats.	35:07
Annie Lockhart Fisher	No, she hired us, won't sell no hats.	35:08
Stacey Scales	Could you try one on?	35:12
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Uh-uh. Well I don't know. I have never tried to try one on, I don't know whether she would, what she would've said. So when the first two days I were there, all I had—She had a son that was going to go out of college, and go to the army. And all she wanted me to do the first two days was to, I had to put labels, and your name back there, was sit down and cut those labels out of his clothes and she cried. Of course, I realized White or Black, I guess you love your child, if you going to the army. And in those days I didn't talk very much. So she didn't have much to say and I ain't had much say to her either. So we didn't have much—	35:14
Stacey Scales	Was there many people, many Black folks working right there in the area? Not in that store but in that section.	36:03
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well now the lady that told me about it come out of my neighborhood, she worked across that in the Leery Building, driving the elevator. I'm sure it was quite a few that were working.	36:13
Stacey Scales	She did what?	36:24
Annie Lockhart Fisher	She drove the elevator.	36:25
Stacey Scales	Oh, she drove the elevator.	36:25
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Mm-hmm. Now we were still segregated. So they were working in the jobs ordinarily that you do back there, see? And I ain't see—Wasn't no salesperson at that time.	36:29
Stacey Scales	Did you vote ever during that time? Do you remember first voting?	36:48
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Uh-huh, see I have been voting since—At that time you—voting was much harder to do than to do now because you had to go down there and take a test to vote. And I started voting at that time because they was requiring, they were "encouraging" you to vote. So I've been voting quite a long time. I started voting when we used to have to, like I said, go down there and take a test. And that determined whether or not you were going to vote, see.	36:53
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	37:24
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Mm-hmm.	37:24
Stacey Scales	What was on the test?	37:26
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I really don't remember now.	37:30
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:37:32].	37:31
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I sure don't.	37:32
Stacey Scales	Was it fair?	37:33
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Temporarily fair. Maybe a lot of things that they figured they'd ball you up and you wouldn't know what to say. But it was temporarily fair, I guess.	37:36
Stacey Scales	Parents voted too?	37:48
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, they voted. Let me see. Did my momma and them vote that same year, or later year? Because they would be having drives for and encouraging you to go and vote. And if they didn't vote that year, they voted to next year or something—	37:50
Stacey Scales	What year was that?	38:12
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Because they would give you some literature to bring home, kind of look over. Oh that was before we moved up here, and we moved up here in '63. I'm trying to see—It was in the sixties. I really don't know exactly what year.	38:12
Stacey Scales	Did your parents go to school, or your grandparents?	38:44
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I really I don't know about my grandparents, I told you I was six years old when my grandmother died. My mother and my daddy, they went to school, but I don't think they—I don't remember hearing them say that they finished no high school. I'm sure. I really don't know what grade they—	38:50
Stacey Scales	Did you go to school after Parker?	39:14
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I went to the nursing—	39:17
Stacey Scales	Nursing school?	39:20
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Uh-huh, school.	39:22
Stacey Scales	Was it segregated?	39:24
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Uh-huh. When I went to school?	39:25
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	39:29
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Uh-huh.	39:30
Stacey Scales	Did you ever have any Jim Crow experiences?	39:31
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well see our teacher was a Black person too. But then after you go to school, after you take up the class, so long, you have to go in the hospital and put some— now that's when we come across some Jim Crow. Before you even finish, you put so much time in the hospital. And yeah, we come across plenty of the things. Even though they put some of us was up on the White floors, where it wasn't nothing but White patients. And we were talking about it not too long ago, we come across a lady up there, a doctor's wife, but he was sick though. She wouldn't even call us, it was a Black lady up there, the nurse that had finished, and she would call us maids. And she said, "These are not maids. They're students" "All right," she said time she'd be "Come here, maids." So we come across plenty of it though.	39:37
Stacey Scales	What hospital was that?	40:43
Annie Lockhart Fisher	That was University at that time.	40:44
Stacey Scales	She called you the maids?	40:45
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, she called us maids. They had maids up there, but we had on our little uniform, our student uniform, and our little cap. But she know better. But that was just her way of letting us know she wasn't paying us no attention as students by us I guess.	40:47
Stacey Scales	Did anybody ever confront her?	41:02
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, they would tell her. They would tell her. Maybe every time—Every time we tell them that she said it, sometimes they wasn't in there. And then sometimes they would pass by, then that child would tell her, just as nice as she could, "These are not maids." She said, "Okay." She was this elder lady, some of them the hardest ones.	41:05
Stacey Scales	She was what?	41:27
Annie Lockhart Fisher	She was a elder lady, and some of them the hardest ones. And she'd say, "Okay." And it would maybe two or three times a day she said that. Let's see, we have maybe you got six weeks on this floor, and six weeks on that. So I guess when we left, I guess she did it to the rest of them, I don't know.	41:27
Stacey Scales	So when you became a nurse, did you work at University?	41:48
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Mm-hmm.	41:52
Stacey Scales	It was the same way then?	41:54
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well I told you, I was over there when the federal government set the deadline and everything. And we come across quite a lot of them that they might have felt that way, but they act all right. Then we come across some of them, would say—You go in there—They ring the bell and you go in there, and she say, "I want the nurse." As if to say she want that White nurse. Well as I said, we come across some of them that ugly, and we come across some that they might have felt that way, but they knew how to act.	41:57
Stacey Scales	Right.	42:36
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Uh-huh.	42:36
Stacey Scales	So what's the name of your nursing school?	42:38
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Birmingham. Let's see, Birmingham—Birmingham, what am I thinking? Birmingham Nursing. Wait, let me see if I can find it.	42:42
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:43:01] Birmingham School of Nursing.	43:01
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Mm-hmm.	43:02
Stacey Scales	So they had Black and White students at the Birmingham School of Nursing?	43:02
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Now they do, but at that time they might have had a White class, but we was all Black. Black class, with a Black teacher.	43:02
Stacey Scales	So were there any Black doctors at the hospital?	43:15
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I'm trying to see, was there the Black doctors at that time? I know there are plenty there now. But there are a lot of them, I don't mean no plenty, but—I don't know whether—If it wasn't right then, soon after that we had some Black doctors, a few Black doctors at the start. I'm trying to—That's it, I don't remember right now.	43:21
Stacey Scales	Were there Black patients in the hospital?	43:51
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Oh yeah, they had—	43:53
Stacey Scales	Did they have them separated?	43:54
Annie Lockhart Fisher	At first, some of them. Yeah, they had the Black floor and the White floor. That's what the federal government said, they would have to mix them patients up, see? Because we had floors of nothing but Black.	43:55
Stacey Scales	How did they get treated?	44:10
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well, they got treated pretty good, because lot of time they would have a lot of Black nurses and things working on them. But they had a few White ones, maybe the Head Nurse was White and all like that. But as a whole, they got treated pretty good as far as I know, now.	44:12
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Because I remember when they were saying they get a deadline, they were mixing them floors up and pulling some beds out, putting them on other floors. They were laughing about on one floor, little Black lady was over there by the window, and they brought this elder White lady to go put her in there, and said when she got to that door, looked over there and saw that Black lady over there, she told them, no she wasn't going in there. But then her doctor, see the doctors had to apply too. They said her doctor said, "Well if you don't want going in, we ain't got in another place for you." Because they wanted to get them all mixed up before them folks come around again and check.	44:33
Stacey Scales	What year was that? You remember?	45:26
Annie Lockhart Fisher	That was the beginning of when they had pass the law for the integration to be seen. I can't remember just exactly which year it was. I should have jot some of them things down at that time, but we just took it for granted. But that they had them pass the law and integration was—See they had done come there and they had checked, and they found out that the Black—Because when I first went over there and started working on pediatrics, we had Black pediatrics and we had White pediatrics, see? I worked on the Black pediatrics floor, and then the White pediatrics was down the hall on that end. And then when they started integrating, and they started mixing all them up together too, the White and the Black children together. So we'd have White and Black patients on one floor, I mean on the same ward, or the same rooms or things. But when I first went over there, we had Black pediatrics and White pediatrics.	45:28
Stacey Scales	So was there a Black hospital in Birmingham then, during Jim Crow?	46:30
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Yeah, they had some—I know they had maternity Black hospitals and they had children hospital around there was all Black. And what ever, what other hospital? Yeah, they had some Black hospital, nothing but Black.	46:37
Stacey Scales	I'm going to turn the tape over—	46:54

Annie Lockhart Fisher	Like all the other, not only UAB some of them other hospitals, but the Black had they ward and the White had they ward see. Until they mixed them up together, until they integrated them.	0:01
Stacey Scales	So UAB was segregated too.	0:15
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Well you know, University Hospital and UAB is one and the same now cause the name used to be University Hospital, so now it's UAB. And before it was the University Hospital used to be the Hillman Hospital. Hillman Jefferson Hospital, so it has had two or three names change.	0:19
Stacey Scales	Do you know many people that protest or any people that protest things that took place in the hospital or how Black folks were being treated? Any local leaders or ministers.	0:48
Annie Lockhart Fisher	When they were having the marches and things. Yeah, it was quite a few local preachers that was in it. When Martin Luther King came and Abernathy, well they were out of towns. But then there was quite a lot of preachers in Birmingham that joined in. I think that was over there to Sixth Avenue, Reverend Porter and oh, it was a lot of them. There was the Pastor at 16th Street. They done had another one. Let me see, which one was there at that time was there. Well they had a lot of local preachers that were in the movement and marched in it too with them and had meetings at that church and things. But they would march too.	1:08
Stacey Scales	Were there any women's groups that got together?	2:02
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Let me see. I don't know, whenever. I'm sure it is. I may not know their name, but I'm sure it is so.	2:10
Stacey Scales	Well, that's all the questions that I really have. If there is anything else that you would like to add, that you could remember or think of, you can add it for the record. Anything about your family or any other experiences that you know of.	2:22
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I'm trying to think. I just can't think right now. I'm sure I haven't been too much of help, of course.	3:03
Stacey Scales	Yeah, you've been a whole lot of help. I enjoyed talking to you and I was wondering if you had any literature or any pictures that you would like to share. Down at the institute, we have a copy scanner and we could take a picture of your picture and have it back to you the same day or the next day.	3:04
Annie Lockhart Fisher	Y'all got one of our books from up here when they was getting ready and they were compiling, my daughter—	3:29
Stacey Scales	I'm not—	3:37
Annie Lockhart Fisher	I know, I know you. When they were compiling and getting information and things like that and pictures and things and they were asking some things about the church and things too. And this lady she's told us she had, which I know she had so many from different people, she was saying she was going to get it back to her. But I don't know no more right now. We haven't got that one back, but I'm sure we'll get them. If we don't, it's all right now.	3:38
Stacey Scales	Well I'll be here just one more week. And if you want, do you have anything you'd like to share? The project is going to be housed in the Civil Rights Institute and at Duke University Library.	4:10
Annie Lockhart Fisher	You can leave me your name and telephone number and if I come across. Sometimes, you think of things after somebody gone and especially when you getting old. You think, you can't think of it right then. I'll call you and tell you, hear?	4:27
Stacey Scales	Okay, thank you.	4:41

Item Info

Title:

Annie Fisher interview recording, 1994 June 16

Date:

June 16, 1994

Creator:

Fisher, Annie Lockhart

Contributor:

Scales, Mausiki Stacey

Description:

Name: Annie Lockhart Fisher; Date of birth: 1924-12-20; Place of birth: Birmingham, AL; Occupation(s): nursing; Residence: Birmingham,AL
Informant ID: 710; Interviewed by: Stacey Scales.

Occupation:

Nursing

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

See below

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-0291
a419e00c-d75c-4b9a-aa8c-f1b19eb830bc
behindtheveil
83561bd0-4c1d-4f70-8be3-2e62a3ffea11
ark:/87924/r4j107d14
83561bd0-4c1d-4f70-8be3-2e62a3ffea11

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4j107d14

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Annie Fisher interview recording, 1994 June 16

Transcript

Item Info

1. Annie Fisher administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Annie Fisher interview recording, 1994 June 16

Transcript

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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