RL00170-CS-1283_01.wav / Annie Benton interview recording, 1995 July 18 / Duke Digital Repository

[Blair Murphy] Your birth and your place of birth.

0:01

[Annie Benton] Annie M Benton.

0:03

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And when?

0:11

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November 19th, 1924.

0:13

In Norfolk, Virginia.

0:21

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And what was it like here in Norfolk

0:24

when you were a little girl?

0:27

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Well I, being born in, in the twenties,

0:30

I really, I don't remember too much, you know, about that.

0:35

But, even in the thirties,

0:39

we were a family that

0:44

grandparent, one grandparent-

0:52

'cause my grandfather had passed-

0:54

was living with us and she had young,

0:57

young children, young boy and a young girl at that time.

1:00

So we were all living in a place together,

1:05

apartment, and close knit families.

1:10

And all the parents worked

1:13

and they did menial work, you know, labor.

1:16

My mother did housework.

1:22

My grandmother did housework

1:25

and my father worked

1:28

on the salvage yard.

1:32

We called it junk yard at that time.

1:36

He was a welder.

1:39

So it left really pretty much the children home.

1:43

Of course we went to school, but mostly,

1:48

we took care of the house.

1:52

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How many brothers and sisters did you have?

1:55

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I had one sister.

1:56

I had two sisters, but the oldest one died

1:59

when she was six.

2:03

So I don't remember her.

2:04

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Okay.

-

But I do have one sister.

2:08

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What part of Norfolk did you live in?

2:11

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Lived in Huntersville.

2:13

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Okay.

2:15

I haven't heard of that area.

2:19

Where is it?

2:21

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Let's see, it runs into Tidewater Drive.

2:23

Well, going east, I think,

2:29

from where you, which is the way you came, I think.

2:32

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Okay, and that was mostly Black community?

2:37

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Yes, all Black community.

2:40

Except there was a couple of stores

2:43

that was run by Jews

2:49

and they lived in the apartments above the store, right.

2:53

But basically it was a Black community.

3:00

It was a Black community.

3:04

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So did you live in a, like a house

3:12

or did you live in an apartment?

3:14

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No, we lived in an apartment.

3:15

It was a two bedroom apartment

3:23

on our first apartment that we lived in.

3:28

I remembered our bath was outdoors,

3:33

but then we finally moved from there

3:42

to a house that had a bath.

3:45

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Do you remember how old you were when you moved?

3:51

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I think maybe around,

3:55

probably around eight or nine.

3:59

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Do you know how, where your father learned to do welding?

4:03

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No, I really don't,

4:07

I really don't.

4:12

I know he was in, in the service,

4:13

but all I remember hearing him speak of about the service

4:15

was that he was a cook in the service.

4:20

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So was he, did he enlist or did he, was he drafted?

4:25

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He was drafted during World War I.

4:31

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So did he go overseas?

4:37

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No, he didn't get to go overseas.

4:38

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And were your parents born in this area as well?

4:44

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No, my father was born in a little place

4:46

on the other side of Emporia, Virginia

4:50

called Pleasant Shade, Virginia.

4:53

Most, a lot of people never heard of Pleasant Shade,

4:59

but they have heard of Emporia.

5:02

And my mother was born in Hickory, Virginia,

5:07

which is near Chesapeake.

5:11

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So it's just, in the area.

5:15

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Yeah, uh-huh.

And they met in Norfolk, 'cause when he left

5:21

Emp- Pleasant Shade,

5:27

he went into the service and he settled in this area.

5:29

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So what was the name of your first school?

5:35

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My first school? John T. West.

5:38

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And how far was that from here? Where is it?

5:45

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When I went to started in John T. West,

5:48

I was living on,

5:51

I guess maybe a couple of blocks away from school.

5:55

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So you walked to school?

6:00

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Yes.

6:01

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How big was your school?

6:03

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It was a two story school

6:06

and it went to the sixth grade.

6:10

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So did each grade have its own teacher?

6:15

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Yes.

6:18

And they also had the little,

6:20

had some couple of rooms on the outside

6:24

of the larger school for the some lower grades.

6:27

And after attending John T. West,

6:35

I went to the junior high school,

6:38

which was Booker T, Booker T. Washington,

6:40

which is Booker T. Washington High School now.

6:46

It was Booker T. Washington Intermediate

6:49

on one side of the auditorium,

6:54

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And the high school

on the other side?

6:58

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And the high school on the other side

6:59

of the auditorium.

7:00

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And that was a very large school?

7:01

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Yes, it was.

7:02

And that was seventh grade through eighth.

7:06

When you went to the ninth grade you went to high school.

7:12

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So you went to Booker T. Washington High School?

7:16

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Right, uh-huh.

7:18

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So what do you remember about that school?

7:19

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What do I remember?

7:26

Well, I,

7:28

let's see, basically was a lot-

7:34

well, naturally it was a lot of studying

7:39

and I didn't get to-

7:41

I wasn't a socializer.

7:46

I didn't socialize very much. (laughs) So.

7:48

But I

7:52

went to basketball games and they had football games.

7:57

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Did you like your teachers?

8:07

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Well, yes.

8:09

I don't know of a teacher that I really didn't like, so.

8:10

And you know, they put on plays and-

8:17

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So it was all Black high school as well?

8:25

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Yes, it was.

8:27

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And did you have good access to books

8:30

and things like that

8:33

being a large high school?

8:34

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Yeah, I'm trying to remember, did we.

8:39

We had books.

8:42

I think the school let you have books,

8:43

but you had to turn those books back in

8:48

at the end of the semester, mm-hmm.

8:50

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Did you have a library in the school?

8:53

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In the school?

8:57

We always went to Blyden Branch library,

8:58

which was,

9:04

that was near my house too.

9:09

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That was a public library?

9:12

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Yes, it was.

9:13

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Was it the city library or?

9:16

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No, it was just an area library

9:21

in the Huntersville area.

9:25

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So was it considered a Black library?

9:28

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Yes, I would.

9:30

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What do you remember about Norfolk?

9:40

Like where would you shop?

9:42

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On Church Street was the largest shopping area.

9:47

Of course, some people shopped on Granby Street,

9:56

but basically, it was segregation during the early years.

9:59

And a lot of people didn't go on Granby Street

10:06

because you know, they-

10:12

Well, you know how salespeople-

10:14

Well, no, you don't know neither, how salespeople were.

10:16

They would rather wait on a White person

10:20

before they would wait on you, you know,

10:22

so a lot of people just didn't go in that area.

10:24

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So those were White businesses?

10:27

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Yes.

10:28

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On Granby Street?

10:30

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Uh-huh, but.

10:31

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Church Street had Black businesses?

10:34

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Some Black businesses,

10:37

but they had, most of them were White businesses.

10:38

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White owned?

10:43

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White owned, yes.

10:44

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But they were for a Black clientele?

10:48

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Well, more or less, you know,

10:52

you would see White people in there shopping too, but.

10:55

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The Blacks were more accepted on Church Street?

11:03

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Right.

11:04

Well, I guess the people, even at that time, I mean,

11:09

even on Church Street

11:14

felt some kind of

11:17

segregation too, but you know, I never experienced it, so.

11:22

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What ways might they have experienced segregation

11:28

on Church Street?

11:31

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For instance, if there were,

11:32

if there was a White person in the store,

11:34

they would recognize them before,

11:37

you know, they would recognize you.

11:39

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So you'd just be standing there?

11:41

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Yes, mm-hmm.

11:43

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But it was worse on Granby Street?

11:48

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Oh yes.

11:50

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Did you shop on Granby Street?

11:51

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I'll tell you the truth,

11:54

not during the school years, I don't think I ever remember.

11:56

I don't remember.

11:59

I might have, but I don't remember.

12:00

Can't recall.

12:03

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So Church Street had clothing stores?

12:04

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Yeah, shoe stores and furniture stores and whatever.

12:07

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And would you go to the movies?

12:17

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Yes, the movies were on Church Street, too.

12:20

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Okay, so was that all Black movie theater?

12:24

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Yes, but they were owned by White,

12:27

but they were Black movies, you know, for Black people,

12:32

movies for Black people.

12:36

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Did you ever go to a movie theater

12:40

that was like segregated within the movie house?

12:41

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No, uh-uh.

12:45

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They just had to go-

12:46

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Yes.

-

And Whites would go somewhere else?

12:48

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Yes, on Granby Street and other streets, mm-hmm.

12:50

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What'd you do after high school?

13:06

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Well, I got married in,

13:11

I got married in, you want the year?

13:15

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Sure.

13:17

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I got married in '42, 1942.

13:18

And then my first child was born in

13:27

'40- one minute-

13:32

'43, that's when it was, mm-hm.

13:39

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Did you work?

13:45

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Not at that time, I didn't.

13:47

And then I had a second child in '44.

13:49

And I think I worked between the third child,

13:59

the second and the third child, which was, huh?

14:05

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What'd you do?

14:08

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Housework.

14:10

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So you-

14:13

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At that time

I did housework.

14:15

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So what year did you have your third child?

14:19

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'48.

14:21

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Okay.

14:22

And where'd you work?

14:25

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After she was born I did some catering.

14:28

I did catering at

14:32

a all White church.

14:36

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So you, would you cook at the church or?

14:44

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Yes, mm-hmm.

14:48

And in the meantime

14:51

I was still doing housework

14:54

and I went to beauty school at night.

14:59

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So where did you do housework?

15:07

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You mean what area?

15:11

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Yeah, and well, for whom?

15:12

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Well, the White people that I did the housework for-

15:15

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Was it a family?

15:19

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Yes, mm-hmm.

15:20

Well, a husband and a wife,

15:22

wasn't, you know, they didn't have children.

15:24

I don't even know what the year I started beauty school

15:37

and what year I came out of beauty school.

15:40

It was in the fifties,

15:43

I know that I completed it.

15:44

Then I worked for a few years in the beauty salon.

15:50

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What was that like?

15:56

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Enjoyable, 'cause I enjoyed doing hair.

15:58

The only thing about working in the beauty parlor

16:05

was the majority of the people work days

16:09

and you had to work nights.

16:12

So I worked for a while,

16:15

but after my children started getting in the teenage years,

16:16

I came out of the beauty parlor

16:21

so I could be home evenings with them.

16:23

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Okay, so you worked in the evenings when you started.

16:26

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When I first started I'd work any time, day,

16:28

but I'd work through the evenings, you know,

16:32

but you got mostly your appointments in the evening

16:36

after, you know, working hours

16:39

after four o'clock I would say.

16:41

So then.

16:48

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What's the salon did you work for?

16:50

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In the beauty parlor?

16:52

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Yeah, the beauty parlor.

16:53

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I think, let's see,

16:57

until '60,

17:00

1960, 'cause I had another child in '61.

17:06

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Okay.

17:10

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I'd say '61 because no, it was '60 in 1960

17:13

because he was born in the early '61.

17:19

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So what salon, what beauty parlor

17:22

did you work for, the name of it?

17:25

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Beatrice Beauty Salon.

17:27

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And where was that?

17:33

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In Huntersville.

17:33

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Was it a big salon?

17:39

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I'd say, well comparing to the salons today

17:43

it was small

17:48

'cause it had six chairs in it, you know.

17:50

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And did most of your clientele

17:59

what'd they do for a living?

18:02

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Were they what?

18:05

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Did, were they school teachers or were they?

18:06

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Yeah, some school teachers, housewives,

18:09

domestic workers, like, you know,

18:13

I had been.

18:15

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A whole

range of people?

18:17

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Yes, mm-hmm, right.

Yes, and of course, after I had my fourth son,

18:19

I would stay at home for a while, but

18:25

I guess until he was about, I don't know,

18:30

four or four and a half anyway,

18:35

I put him in kindergarten and

18:38

I went back to doing day's work.

18:44

So when he left out, I would leave out

18:48

and by the time he got back home, you know,

18:51

I was coming in

18:54

or my father at that time would take him in

18:56

if I, you know, didn't get there before he did.

18:59

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So what did your husband do?

19:04

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He was a stevedore. That-

19:06

And now his first job, he was,

19:09

he worked in

19:15

a fish shop

19:18

where they sold fish, the fish market.

19:22

And then he became, you know,

19:27

he went to the tobacco company after the first job.

19:32

And then he went in service.

19:40

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Did he serve in the war?

19:47

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He been overseas, but the war ended when he got-

19:50

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Okay, so that was World War II?

19:54

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Yes, this was World War II.

19:56

And when he came back, he went,

20:01

he got a job as a stevedore.

20:04

He worked on a longshoreman's corner

20:07

and then he went down to the Naval Supply Center.

20:10

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So what was it like during World War II?

20:21

Because you had children.

20:25

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Yes, I had, during World War II,

20:27

I had two children when he went in the service.

20:31

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Because they had like the rations.

20:36

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Right.

20:38

Yeah, I'll tell you the truth,

20:44

I done forgot all about the war.

20:46

(interviewer laughs)

20:48

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So I guess it must not have been that difficult.

20:51

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No, I, no.

20:53

I tell you, it-

20:55

I guess,

20:59

I tell you the truth I never really had

21:01

that much money to work with.

21:03

So I always could budget. (phone rings)

21:05

[INTERRUPTION]

21:09

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You were saying that you could budget.

21:11

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Yes, I learned to budget very well.

21:14

So I think we did pretty good.

21:18

We had problems.

21:22

We would

21:24

get behind in little things at different times,

21:28

but you know, we basically made it.

21:30

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You had help from your parents?

21:38

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Well, yes, because when I first got married,

21:40

I lived with my parents until the second child was born

21:43

and this was when my husband went in service.

21:50

And then when he came out of service, we got an apartment.

21:55

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And what church did you go to?

22:06

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At that time, I was going to the Church of God

22:09

and True Holiness.

22:12

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And what denomination is that?

22:23

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Congregational Christian.

22:25

Okay, then when I, when we got an apartment to ourselves,

22:36

we lived next door to Shiloh Baptist

22:42

and I sent my children to Shiloh Baptist Church.

22:45

And, of course, I went there on occasions, too.

22:53

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And what church did you grow up in?

23:00

Did you grow up in-

23:02

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In the Church of God and True Holiness, mm-hmm.

23:03

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What was that like?

23:07

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Well, we enjoyed it, you know, you know how children are,

23:09

they always had your space, you know,

23:12

kids sat on one side of the church.

23:14

And we were involved in different things

23:16

and Sunday school

23:20

and speaking, putting on programs.

23:24

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So.

23:33

(phone rings)

23:34

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I'll take this off. [INTERRUPTION]

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So was it like a social aspect of going to church as well?

23:38

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Yes. Yes.

23:43

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[Answering Machine Message] Hello,

23:46

I'm not able to answer your call at this time.

23:47

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We, it was a group of us, you know,

23:50

that always got together

23:53

and would walk to church

23:55

and you know, we enjoyed it. (Answering machine beeps).

23:58

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So do you remember any of like

24:10

the signs of segregation in Norfolk?

24:13

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Yes, riding the bus

24:18

where the Blacks had to sit in the back,

24:21

the Whites in the front.

24:25

How a White person could come up and ask you to move,

24:31

to get up and let them have the seat and,

24:35

take that phone off the hook for me, please.

24:44

Thank you.

24:46

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And were there any other,

24:49

like the bathrooms or bus stations

24:50

where you had separate?

24:55

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Yes, there were.

24:57

I know in the bus terminals.

25:00

I never rode a train from Norfolk.

25:07

I rode a boat and got on a train in Cape Charles,

25:11

but I don't remember whether, you know.

25:16

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What boat would you get on?

25:21

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Well, I don't know what the boat was.

25:27

It was a ferry would take you to Cape Charles

25:30

when you were going north,

25:34

you had to catch the boat from Norfolk,

25:36

the ferry from Norfolk and- Kiptopeke Ferry.

25:39

That's what it was, was called.

25:42

(phone disconnected beeps)

25:47

Oh gosh, that's going to be-

25:49

-

That's okay, that's okay.

25:51

-

It's going to be on there.

25:53

(phone disconnected beeps)

25:56

It'll stop.

25:59

-

Okay.

(phone disconnected beeps)

26:00

And I never experienced

26:06

any segregation on the boat,

26:10

I guess I was never

26:13

had to go to the, you know, the restrooms

26:19

or anything like that.

26:21

(phone disconnected beeps)

26:22

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Did your grand,

26:37

your grandmother was alive when you first moved in?

26:38

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Yes.

26:41

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Did she tell you any stories, like family stories?

26:44

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Mm, yes.

26:49

They used to tell little things,

26:51

but I don't remember it now.

26:54

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Did she tell you stories about slavery?

26:57

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Oh, no.

26:59

-

What newspapers did you read?

27:08

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"The Virginian-Pilot" and "The Journal and Guide,"

27:11

which was a Black newspaper.

27:19

"The Pilot" wasn't Black. It was, it's White.

27:25

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And would the White paper include any like Black news

27:34

or things that were going on in the Black community?

27:37

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I'm sure so, but I don't remember.

27:40

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But to find out about Black stuff,

27:45

you mostly read "The Journal and Guide"?

27:46

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"The Guide," yes.

27:49

I'm sure they, the White paper,

27:51

printed Black news, probably.

27:56

I guess all the bad things, I'm sure.

28:02

(interviewer chuckles)

28:04

-

Mm-hmm.

28:05

-

Oh, health.

28:15

Could you tell me a little bit about healthcare?

28:18

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Healthcare?

28:21

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Yeah, like would you go to,

28:21

did you go to the hospital and have your children?

28:23

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Yes, I did, but

28:26

I went to an all Black hospital.

28:30

-

Okay.

28:33

So most people when they had their children,

28:39

they went to the hospital?

28:40

-

Well, no, not most people.

28:42

I mean, a lot of people, you know, went to hospital,

28:44

but I know a lot of people that stayed home had midwives.

28:48

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Midwives.

28:53

-

Mm-hmm.

But I guess I was just fortunate, you know,

28:58

to have gone to the hospital.

29:00

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So most people couldn't necessarily afford

29:04

to go to the hospital?

29:08

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Well, I think maybe during the time

29:09

that I was having my children,

29:11

I believe that most folks-

29:15

Well, at least most I knew, you know, they had jobs.

29:21

So, and at that time it was much,

29:26

much cheaper to have a child then than it is now.

29:31

'Cause I remember my first one, I paid 27.50.

29:34

(laughs)

29:38

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That's good.

29:40

You would like that, now?

29:43

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Yeah. Mm-hmm.

29:45

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Did you ever travel?

29:48

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Yes, we would travel mostly to Philadelphia.

29:50

I had an aunt and uncle

29:55

and that's where my grandmother eventually went

29:56

to Philadelphia to live.

29:59

I had cousins up there, so.

30:03

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What do you remember about traveling? Did you enjoy it?

30:10

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Yes, you know, you always enjoy being with family.

30:13

Of course we had eventually, you know,

30:19

had friends up there.

30:22

I still communicate with, you know, a friend, there.

30:23

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Was Philadelphia, a lot different than Norfolk

30:30

at the time or was it kind of the same?

30:32

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I think,

30:38

I'm thinking that there was some difference

30:40

and perhaps I did not notice, you know,

30:44

the differences, but

30:49

I really don't know.

30:54

You go and visit, you know,

31:00

you get out and go around to different places,

31:02

shopping and to the stores and all,

31:06

but I never noticed that much.

31:10

But other than riding the buses myself, I never really

31:14

felt a lot of segregation.

31:24

Maybe I didn't go to the places, you know, but you know.

31:32

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So you could kind of avoid like the insults.

31:36

-

Mm-hmm, well no, I never, you know,

31:39

experienced anything like that.

31:43

And I don't think it was because I avoided to, you know,

31:45

but I just never experienced anything like that.

31:49

-

There was like a Black community

31:53

large enough that you didn't have to-

31:56

-

Well, yes, that's true.

31:58

And then too, in the later years when I did start shopping,

32:03

you know, on Granby Street and wherever,

32:06

I still didn't experience any

32:09

major segregations, you know.

32:14

-

Do you think that was because Norfolk was more urban?

32:20

-

It might have been.

32:24

And then too, you know, there's a lot

32:25

of servicemen in this area, you know,

32:27

especially Navy men, you know.

32:31

-

How would that have affected?

32:39

-

I don't know.

32:45

I imagine because I just have seen, you know-

32:46

Now I've heard of, you know,

32:51

segregation among the servicemen,

32:55

but I used to see the Black and the Whites together,

32:58

you know, in the early years, so.

33:02

-

And that was kind of normal

33:07

because it was a mix of people in the area.

33:09

-

Yes, and then too, they were, you can push that.

33:11

They were, I imagine because they were servicemen

33:15

and I guess stationed together

33:19

and had become friends, you know?

33:22

-

Okay.

33:32

Where would you take your children

33:34

'cause you lived in like an urban area.

33:35

Were there parks where you-

33:38

-

Yes, there was a city park

33:39

which was segregated

33:45

and then there was a park in Huntersville

33:47

that it was a nice park that the kids always used.

33:52

-

And that was an all Black park?

33:59

-

Yes, it was.

34:00

-

How was the other park segregated?

34:03

-

Well, how?

34:06

They had, I guess they.

34:10

-

Did they, they have dividers,

34:16

are there certain areas you weren't supposed to go?

34:18

-

No, I don't, I never experienced anything like that.

34:20

-

Oh, okay.

34:23

-

Because they, the city park, you know,

34:24

you had the animals and all different things like that

34:26

looked over.

34:29

I could be, you know.

34:30

-

Just seems strange they would try to segregate a park.

34:36

-

Maybe you just felt that way.

34:42

You know, knowing how, how the area was.

34:44

-

Children weren't, White and Black children couldn't play.

34:49

-

Oh, well they didn't, you know,

34:51

I guess unless the schools carry, of course at that time,

34:54

the say, you know, schools weren't integrated.

34:57

-

Mm-hmm.

35:01

-

But I know the schools would carry the kids, you know,

35:03

out to city park.

35:07

And of course my kids, you know, I took them to the beach.

35:10

We had a couple of Black beaches in the area,

35:14

City Beach and Seaview Beach.

35:19

There was a Buckroe Beach over in Newport News

35:24

or Hampton one, I don't know which,

35:28

Newport News, I think it is.

35:29

I don't know.

35:37

You know, churches used to,

35:39

especially in the summertime after vacation Bible school,

35:42

they always had a big day at the beach.

35:45

So that was something that kids always look forward to.

35:49

-

So did you enjoy this time?

36:01

-

Yes, I did.

36:04

I guess we were poor folks,

36:08

but we didn't know we were poor,

36:12

you know, and I think the neighborhood was,

36:13

was closer then, you know, than it is now.

36:19

-

You had a lot of friends in your area?

36:28

-

Oh, well, yes, you know, nice neighbors.

36:30

And of course you could tell a neighbor's child

36:34

to behave or a neighbor could tell your child to behave

36:39

and you know, they would, he would see the difference.

36:43

-

Okay.

36:54

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John Hope Franklin Research Center