Jean Perry interview recording, 1995 August 12

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Mary Hebert	You can go ahead and tell me your full name and when and where you were born.	0:00
Jean Whitefield Perry	My full name is Jean W. Perry. I was born in Portsmouth, Virginia. I was born in the home on 24, sorry, 2745 London Street, Portsmouth, Virginia.	0:06
Mary Hebert	And what year were you born?	0:29
Jean Whitefield Perry	1933.	0:31
Mary Hebert	Did your parents come from Portsmouth or did they move there from somewhere else?	0:35
Jean Whitefield Perry	They migrated from Ahoskie, North Carolina.	0:39
Mary Hebert	Did they ever tell you why they came here?	0:43
Jean Whitefield Perry	Work.	0:46
Mary Hebert	What kind of work did your parents do?	0:50
Jean Whitefield Perry	My mother was an elementary teacher, and my father worked as a spotter in a cleaners and a presser.	0:53
Mary Hebert	What are their names?	1:08
Jean Whitefield Perry	Patrick Henry Whitfield, and my mother's name is Annie J. Whitfield.	1:10
Mary Hebert	Did your father always work in the cleaners? Did he wind up owning a cleaners or?	1:28
Jean Whitefield Perry	He always worked in a cleaners, but he did end up owning a confectionary and several apartments and two or three storefronts. In fact, a building that was at 1152 Mount Vernon Avenue. The confectionary was where all of the teenager Black children hung out.	1:33
Mary Hebert	And what kinds of things did he sell?	2:01
Jean Whitefield Perry	He sold banana splits, sodas. He had a fountain, ice cream, patent medicine, baby needs, and soap, and different things that you were purchased at basically a drug store. It was built in the reasoning for our older brother being a pharmacist. And he decided to, after college to go into the service, so it was always used as a confectionary.	2:03
Mary Hebert	So the pharmacist never worked there.	2:48
Jean Whitefield Perry	Right, it never became a pharmacy. It just end up as a, maybe just a confectionary.	2:51
Mary Hebert	Did you ever work there?	2:59
Jean Whitefield Perry	Oh yes. Yes, as a teenager, we had shifts. It was seven children ranging in the age. At that time, we were two to three years apart and we all had our shifts, all except the two latter children that was born late in life. But the five of us had shifts.	3:01
Mary Hebert	So you learned how to make the banana splits?	3:28
Jean Whitefield Perry	I know how to make fountain drinks or banana splits and nut sundaes, milkshakes. All the things that you would find at a drugstore.	3:31
Mary Hebert	And you said the teenagers would hang out?	3:44
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, all the teenagers would hang out. They would come. We had a jukebox, telephone was a booth, they had booths at that time. And it was a hangout for the teenage children.	3:49
Mary Hebert	Did you get—	4:01
Jean Whitefield Perry	Especially Sunday afternoons.	4:03
Mary Hebert	After church?	4:05
Jean Whitefield Perry	After church.	4:06
Mary Hebert	Did you get to meet a lot of people? You met a lot of people?	4:08
Jean Whitefield Perry	Oh yes, I knew everybody.	4:09
Mary Hebert	What about at home? Did you have to do chores?	4:13
Jean Whitefield Perry	At chores, I've been the oldest girl, and the only girl for 11 years. I had learned to cook very early and to clean. And my responsibility because my parents worked, my responsibility after school was to get dinner. The main thing I remember as a child is that at school I was always able to go on all the school trips and I always had money. Always had, as children today basically wear the same things, but I had summer and winter clothes. I didn't wear cotton during the winter, I wore wool skirts and sweaters, blouse. And in the summer you wore summer things, and now you can't tell winter from summer, too many of the same things. Tennis shoes wasn't acceptable, and jeans wasn't acceptable when I grew up.	4:16
Mary Hebert	So you had to wear dresses to schools?	5:32
Jean Whitefield Perry	I wore skirts to school and jumpers.	5:35
Mary Hebert	Was there a dress code?	5:40
Jean Whitefield Perry	No, it just at that time it was acceptable to have a certain dress. Girls didn't wear a lot of pants. I don't remember ever having a pair of slacks as a child.	5:42
Mary Hebert	You mentioned school just a second ago, what school did you attend?	5:59
Jean Whitefield Perry	Mount Hermon School. And I lived in a section of Mount Hermon in Portsmouth. We could walk to school, I could go home for lunch.	6:03
Mary Hebert	Did your mother teach at that school?	6:16
Jean Whitefield Perry	No, my mother taught at Zuni, Virginia before I was born. The second pregnancy, that's when she stopped teaching.	6:18
Mary Hebert	So she didn't work during?	6:26
Jean Whitefield Perry	She worked during the first two children.	6:30
Mary Hebert	Right.	6:32
Jean Whitefield Perry	But after that, no, she didn't work. She worked but not at a school. My mother also did sewing. She sewed very well. So by my father having a substation later in life, my father got his own little cleaning shop, but he never stopped working for Mr. Waters, which owned the cleaning, pressing shop. But my father had a substation, which he took in clothes and got a percentage off of them when he would carry them in.	6:33
Mary Hebert	So his substation was like he was doing clothes for—	7:10
Jean Whitefield Perry	He was doing clothes for himself.	7:14
Mary Hebert	Okay.	7:15
Jean Whitefield Perry	And he would pay Ms. McCoy to have them clean there. And so he made a percentage.	7:15
Mary Hebert	Oh. Okay. And would your mother mend those clothes?	7:24
Jean Whitefield Perry	My mother would do cuffing and mending, so they worked together. It first started off in the house.	7:29
Mary Hebert	They did?	7:40
Jean Whitefield Perry	It first started off in the house, and then when they, I don't remember, I think it was 1945 when they built this building that the little room had a substation for our cleaners, and that's when we had our storefront. We have pictures of those.	7:41
Mary Hebert	Oh, do you?	8:05
Jean Whitefield Perry	I can find some of them I think. I don't know. I have to find them.	8:05
Mary Hebert	Would you allow us to copy them?	8:05
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes.	8:06
Mary Hebert	Okay.	8:06
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes.	8:16
Mary Hebert	What was the Mount Hermon section of Portsmouth like? Was it?	8:19
Jean Whitefield Perry	It was a very close Black community that had, I said middle class homes in the part where I lived. I don't remember too many little shacks. It was a, at that time for a Black community, was a middle class.	8:23
Mary Hebert	So most of the people were farmers.	8:52
Jean Whitefield Perry	They own their own home, they were blue collar workers and educators. We had one doctor to live in that community, and his name is Dr. Kennedy.	8:55
Mary Hebert	I've heard a lot about the community responsible for a child—rearing.	9:10
Jean Whitefield Perry	Oh yes, they did. You were everybody's child, yes, that's true because anything that you did out in the open, your parents got it. And that time your parents would let any neighbor chastise you. And you were held accountable for your action, if a parent told something on you, you were held responsible for your actions. And you respected everybody and you never passed their home without speaking.	9:15
Mary Hebert	So if you went past one way and five minutes later came back.	10:00
Jean Whitefield Perry	You had to speak.	10:03
Mary Hebert	Both times.	10:05
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes.	10:05
Mary Hebert	How did someone reach the adult stage? I mean, I'm not making this clear, who was allowed to chastise you? At what point did someone become old enough to be able to?	10:09
Jean Whitefield Perry	Well they were usually, everybody was friendly in that neighborhood, but it was always an adult. A child could not chastise you.	10:24
Mary Hebert	So it wouldn't have been a teenager?	10:32
Jean Whitefield Perry	No, it was a parent or adult or somebody who didn't have children, but they were in adult status and they were respected and they were in the same church. And so therefore the neighbors looked after the neighbors' children, whether they had children or not.	10:33
Mary Hebert	Getting back to Mount Hermon School, that was your elementary school. How large a school was it?	10:57
Jean Whitefield Perry	It went from first grade to the sixth grade.	11:04
Mary Hebert	And it had classrooms, it wasn't.	11:11
Jean Whitefield Perry	It had classrooms, and we had teachers for every grade.	11:13
Mary Hebert	Did your teachers play favorites?	11:19
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yeah, we knew the teachers pets. But now that I had become an educator, I understand you choose a child where you can trust, or the child was able to assist you, or they were usually fair. But now you would get someone that would play favorites. But I didn't see too much of it. When I came along, I just happened to get teachers who put children in charge that was basically fair, and they were smart children and could be trusted. That was in elementary school now, that's not junior high or high school.	11:22
Mary Hebert	We'll get onto that.	12:19
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yeah.	12:20
Mary Hebert	Did you have a favorite teacher in elementary school, one who influenced you?	12:21
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, Mrs. Parks. I remember Mrs. Parks rode a bicycle to school and Mrs. Parks lived downtown on Glasgow Street. And that was my third grade teacher. And Mrs. Parks took me home with her one weekend. That was most pleasurable to me. I loved Mrs. Parks and she took a lot of time with me because I had four brothers and I had a lot of chores to do, and she seemed to think a lot of me.	12:24
Mary Hebert	Did she make you want to become a teacher, did that?	12:58
Jean Whitefield Perry	No, third grade, all I thought about was having a good time and getting away from that house and being able to spend the night and didn't have to do any chores. It's ironic the way I became a teacher. It had nothing to do with anybody influencing me. Even my mother didn't have any, I didn't want to be anything. I just want to be my daddy's girl, and that never told me no. So I didn't want to go to school, I want to stay home. But when I got out of high school, my mother asked me what did I want to be and I said nothing. She said, "Well, you going to be something." So well, she said, "Well, you think about it and tell me what you want to be." So I had a girlfriend who went to Elizabeth City State Teacher's College at that time, now it's a university.	13:04
Jean Whitefield Perry	And I said, "I want to go to school." My best friend Maser Slade at that time. And mama asked me, what did they teach? And I told her I didn't know. So she didn't say one word, got that truck ready and carried me right on down there. And I got there and I found it was a teacher's college. Well, so I had to stay. You didn't make decisions with my mother and didn't keep them. You had to live up to whatever your choices, whatever choice you chose, you had to live up to it.	13:59
Jean Whitefield Perry	So of course I cried and cried the first semester, and my grades wasn't that good. But my mother came down and had a little talk with me. And of course, I finished with my class and I still didn't want to be anything. So I was afraid of people because I was really sheltered. And so I got married my last year of college. And I found out that we couldn't make it without me going to work. So I began to have children, so I served and found that wasn't my niche. I loved it after I got in it, but it certainly wasn't because somebody inspired me.	14:38
Mary Hebert	Now you're talking about your junior high and high school a few minutes ago.	15:33
Jean Whitefield Perry	All right, I was popular. Mama began to let me have a little more freedom, but I always with a brother and girlfriends, always had to have a brother. But my brother would let me go and pick me up later with my girlfriend. So I began to have parties at home, birthday parties or dances at home, it still was at home. So it was a most enjoyable high school. But what happened is I had a brother who became disinterested and he told her if Norcom had a band, he would stay there. But Norcom didn't have one at that time, they were just beginning. So mama sent both of us to Booker T. Washington High School in Norfolk. [indistinct 00:16:42], that's where I met you.	15:36
Speaker 1	Isn't that right?	16:43
Jean Whitefield Perry	And so she wouldn't send him by himself, she sent me too, and that's when I used to drive the car, Roadmaster Buick to high school. But we had strict orders that we had to bring it back as soon as school was over. But she didn't let us have it in the first year. I think she let us have it during the junior year and senior year. But we had strict orders, we could only go to school and come back. And I learned to ride the ferry and I learned to lay out of Norfolk. So that was very beneficial. Now I know Norfolk, Chesapeake, and Portsmouth, Virginia Beach has still got hangers, but I can go there. So therefore I know a lot of people in Norfolk, Chesapeake, and Virginia Beach. But now we have grown so that we are a cluster and you know a lot of people now because nothing is too far anymore.	16:45
Mary Hebert	Was it unusual for a high school student to have a car?	17:54
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, was very unusual to have a car, and especially a Roadmaster Buick students. Said what now? About two or three students that drove a car, yes. Now everybody in high school got a car, that's right.	17:57
Mary Hebert	Who taught you how to drive, your father?	18:15
Jean Whitefield Perry	No, I had four brothers, but they didn't teach me. They wouldn't teach me because I was the only girl and I was favored with my father. So a minister now, his name is Bobby Jones. He taught me at 15 how to drive a car. He taught me how to park it, I could drive it because I would get in there and get the keys and pride up and down the street. And we lived in a dead end street. And it wasn't paved, it was dirt. And I was driving up and down that street. So I could drive, but I couldn't park, so he taught me how to park, so at 16 I had my license. And my brother had his license before I did, he was older.	18:17
Mary Hebert	Did Booker T. Washington have a cafeteria?	19:12
Jean Whitefield Perry	No.	19:15
Mary Hebert	Where did you get your food?	19:16
Jean Whitefield Perry	They had a little shops around there across the street. Did they have a cafeteria? Yes, they did. I'm sorry, they did have a cafeteria. I didn't eat in there. I would buy my food and they would take it. That was devastating, but I wouldn't eat in there, I would buy my food at the little shop across the street.	19:18
Mary Hebert	And they would take it from you?	19:40
Jean Whitefield Perry	Norfolk was tough. Norfolk was a very prosperous city. They did things first in the surrounding areas and they were very aggressive, the children were aggressive, and they always had disputions between football. So Portsmouth was a rival of Booker T., so Norcom was a rival and I transferred from Norcom, so that meant I was a target. And when they would play games, you come over to see it, they had to run back to catch the [indistinct 00:20:32] because the Booker T. children would be right down behind them, it was the funniest thing. But we didn't hurt each other like they hurt you now.	19:44
Speaker 1	It was then, the joke was, well who swam across the river this time, you ran to cast the ferry and missed it.	20:42
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes.	20:47
Speaker 1	Because the kids were running you, chasing you. They'd say you had to swim back to Norfolk.	20:48
Jean Whitefield Perry	Norfolk, that's the truth.	20:49
Speaker 1	Joke on Monday, who swam across the river?	20:49
Jean Whitefield Perry	The river this time. It was, but we didn't hurt each other. They would fight, but they didn't hurt each other like they do now. Of course, we didn't have guns and you might somebody throw a bottle in the crowd, but it wasn't malicious like it is now. Now, we thought it was at that time, we thought it was horrible. You couldn't go over there and watch a game. But it was nothing compared to what they do to you now.	20:50
Mary Hebert	Would y'all go to games?	21:27
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yeah, we would go to games. We would be scared because we'd get in crowds and go, because you were, we knew safety was in crowds, numbers, and we knew that way back there. So we crowds, and don't try to date a Norfolk girl, and don't try to date a Portsmouth girl because they would run you back. It was fun at that time, but it was also scary.	21:28
Mary Hebert	So did you date mostly boys in Portsmouth, anyhow, you went to Booker T. Washington?	21:57
Jean Whitefield Perry	I had parties. I wasn't allowed to do much of anything. I could date at 16, but you couldn't go anywhere. So I had a party, so they would come over, they would be daring enough to come, they would come over, but they would chase them back when they leave the house. Nothing would go in the house. But we have those house parties and they would chase them back.	22:02
Mary Hebert	Could you describe the parties though?	22:24
Jean Whitefield Perry	All right. The parties would be a punch and nice records of that time and dancing and games. But they didn't like games. They mostly wanted, when we got to be high school, they mostly wanted to hang out on the porch, and my mother didn't allow that. And I remember them taking the light bulbs, screwing the light bulbs out of the lamp. And parlor, we had parlor lights and they would screw them out. And my mother walk in say, "If you don't find them lights, you got to go." Of course the lights came back on.	22:26
Jean Whitefield Perry	But we mostly it was, you didn't hear of a lot of pregnancies. Now there was some of course, but you didn't hear a lot of pregnancy. But mostly with just kissing and hugging and dancing and giggling and laughing. You were a bad girl if you went outside of a home and let a boy kiss you or fondle you or do things like that. So therefore, nobody really wanted to be about, you always had those fast girls. But we call them fast and talked about them on that Monday, if they had had a weekend party and they didn't do right things they were talked about, so you were shamed.	23:03
Mary Hebert	Did you go to other people's parties or were they mostly helping you?	23:52
Jean Whitefield Perry	Well, the ones that I got, ones that held in Portland was at my house. But I did, I could go to, I had a girlfriend named Lorraine Austin and she had them and she had friends that had parties. So I was allowed to go to the parties, but I spent the night with Lorraine.	23:55
Mary Hebert	So your parents were strict?	24:17
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, they were sort of, but having four brothers, I got to go to dances and parties because they were all about the same age. All except the oldest, I had one that was, he was just about 12 months older than I. So therefore, and he was liberal with me. He was liberal, he would let me go to partying, he would go see someone else, but he wouldn't tell mama so.	24:19
Mary Hebert	Did you go to movies?	24:45
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, I did go to movies and I had to still go with, we were not allowed to go Sunday afternoon, but when I got older, my father would let me go. And if you didn't go to Sunday school in church, you couldn't go out the yard. I don't care how old you were.	24:46
Mary Hebert	Well, was there a movie theater in Portsmouth?	25:08
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes.	25:09
Mary Hebert	It was an African—American movie theater?	25:10
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, it was a nice, The Capitol. And I also went to, what's the name of the? Was it Booker T. in Norfolk? Yes, I went to both of them.	25:13
Mary Hebert	You mentioned church a second ago. What church did your family?	25:24
Jean Whitefield Perry	Mount Hermon Temple, and still right there.	25:26
Mary Hebert	And y'all went every Sunday?	25:31
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes. Otherwise, if you didn't go to Sunday school and church, you weren't allowed to have any company, or go out the yard.	25:34
Mary Hebert	Were your parents active in the church?	25:47
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, my mother sang in the choir and my father was usher.	25:49
Mary Hebert	Getting back to your high school, you said that you were popular. Were you involved in a lot of clubs and organizations?	25:59
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yeah, I can't remember that club. I was in a club and I had a lot of friends, but I always wanted to be a majorette, but I never did. My mother didn't allow me, because I couldn't, she wouldn't let me go out of town with the, so you couldn't be when you couldn't travel.	26:04
Mary Hebert	Now you mentioned going to college in Elizabeth City. Were you?	26:33
Jean Whitefield Perry	Had a good time.	26:38
Mary Hebert	You had a good time?	26:38
Jean Whitefield Perry	Miss Homecoming. Miss STC, captain of the cheering squad. Oh, it was freedom. Oh, it was the best time in my life, I tell children, go to school. That's the only time that you are independent and don't have to pay any rent or buy any food. Everything's, I say, is the most freedom time in the world. If you don't have money for travel, go to college and stay on campus, I loved every moment of it.	26:40
Mary Hebert	And were you in a sorority?	27:14
Jean Whitefield Perry	Listen, that's another story too. Sororities came on the campus two years prior to me graduating, two years or one year. One year I believe because I didn't have any time to make mistakes. And I was popular again. And the Deltas and the AKAs sent me letter to their gathering. And I don't know whether it was called a smoker or what, but anyway, it was that gathering and I decided that I was more Delta material, but I had to come home and I had to come home, my family was AKA. So I couldn't go Delta. So I tried to go AKA. So I stayed at Ivy forever. They told me I'd never be anything. So today I'ma just, oh, Ivy. Still in the ivy stage. I laugh about that. I said, oh yes, I got the Ivy. But my two sisters are AKAs, they came after me.	27:17
Mary Hebert	But why couldn't you get past the Ivy stage?	28:22
Jean Whitefield Perry	Because they started blackballing, if you don't do what they want you to do, and by both of them sending me, they felt like they were being, you wanted one over them. And if they couldn't have what they want, you weren't going to be anything because you had teachers that was Deltas and you had teachers that was AKA. Well, you have to have a certain average. At that time you had to have a B average, and I was just a barely a B student. I wasn't a B student, I was a B, C student. So what happened is that the best class I had that I was under a, I think it was a science class and it was under a Delta.	28:30
Jean Whitefield Perry	I tell you that was, I mean, that was my best subject. I struggled and I struggled, and I just could not pass that teacher's test. I didn't know what she was doing, but I couldn't pass this. I came out of there with a C, I needed that B and that's that in that. But I could've gone, I still could go, but it don't mean that much then. But then it really didn't mean a lot to me. You had to have a B average to be most anything, to be Miss Homecoming. So mines was always just there because I liked those good times, honey. I was at every dance and every party, and I wasn't the kind of student that could go to things and sit up all night. I was asleep at 9:00 or 10:00, I had to go to sleep. I was a early riser, but everybody would have studied. And I found out that when I went to school, what kind of learner I was, and I was the kind that was a group. I did better in groups, discussion, that's what an auditory learner.	29:22
Mary Hebert	And you realized that, did you try to study in groups and?	30:36
Jean Whitefield Perry	Oh yes, but if you didn't bring anything to it, they put you out and they would let me in and I could score higher than most of them that was in the group that brought everything to it. They read the chapter and didn't discuss it. So they said, if you don't bring, well, I didn't read the chapter because if you out, going to the parties, and dancing, can't read and be there. And then I couldn't stay up at night. So therefore, but it was funny, they said if you come in here not prepared again, you out of this group. And I was better in group. I still can do better with the group learning activities, atmosphere.	30:40
Mary Hebert	So you enjoyed college too?	31:28
Jean Whitefield Perry	I loved it, and I tell everybody that I meet and when I am teaching, I inspire the children go to school. You can go to school with a trade or anything you want to be. If you want to be bad enough, you can be successful.	31:35
Mary Hebert	Did your parents instill the education to you? Did they?	31:51
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, indeed. Education was talked about from the time I could hear the word educator all through my life and all through my family.	31:56
Mary Hebert	How did your education compare to your parents' education?	32:12
Jean Whitefield Perry	Well, they had state normal schools, they didn't have four years of college. What was it, two years, as it was a high school, and they were considered educated enough to teach.	32:17
Mary Hebert	And that's what your mother had?	32:31
Jean Whitefield Perry	My mother had.	32:32
Mary Hebert	What about your father?	32:34
Jean Whitefield Perry	My father went to the eighth grade, or seventh grade. He had to come out, was nine of them, and he worked their farm. And until when he got old enough, I think it's 17, he went to Baltimore, Maryland and began to work to support the family. But my mother's family, father had more girls and he came to Newport News to the shipyard so he could educate his girls, and he sent them to the state normal school, so two of them end up educators.	32:36
Mary Hebert	And education was passed on?	33:30
Jean Whitefield Perry	Oh yes, and my whole family are, I'm going to let you see our family history, we have a book. And when they did that book, they asked was there anybody that didn't go to school in your family? Because so many of them did.	33:33
Mary Hebert	Did all your siblings go to college?	33:56
Jean Whitefield Perry	All my children, I have four. All of them.	33:58
Mary Hebert	Your children?	34:01
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes.	34:01
Mary Hebert	What about your brothers and sisters?	34:02
Jean Whitefield Perry	All of us didn't graduate, but all of us went to college, had a chance. And all of my children and I had three to complete it, but all four of them went to college. I have two teachers, and one registered nurse.	34:05
Mary Hebert	Did you ever hear stories about what life was like for your parents when they were growing up? Did they tell you?	34:35
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes.	34:40
Mary Hebert	Is there anything that sticks out in your mind about?	34:41
Jean Whitefield Perry	My mother's mother was very, very stern and they had chores to do. And her father was more liberal than her mother, and they would go down and get old shoes, she used to tell me, and dump them all out and you scramble for your shoes and whether they fit or not, you were so glad to get shoes that you wouldn't tell them that they were too small. And if you told them too small, they would take them out to the chopping block and just chop off the toe of them, I remember that one.	34:45
Jean Whitefield Perry	And my father, when the children grew up, they all stayed home and he would go out. He was a trader, and he would, what they call a bottler. Was it bottlers? I think the word is barter. And if he left home with a mule, he might come back with a horse or might come back with something else. Anyway, but he would trade up if he made $5 or $1 and he would trade up. So he bought a house and the children were all there. So he moved, he bought another house and he moved in and told his wife, which was my grandmother, that Rena, you can come, but don't you bring not one of those children with you.	35:21
Jean Whitefield Perry	So he stayed in the house and he always came to visit them, and she would always say, "Get up and let your daddy sit down." And she was very petite, weighed about 98 pounds. And she was from the slavery, because she worked in the home, her mother was a slave from Africa. And her father was the owner of the, he was the, overseer? No, he was the owner. And so therefore she was very light complected with very nice hair. And she married part Indian and Black, so all the children were olive with nice hair.	36:18
Jean Whitefield Perry	Well, had basically straight hair, you'll see my father. And so they had good lives, they had gardens. And I remember my grandmother, she died at 96. I was in college, so my grandmother. So I had a pleasant time, but I only had one aunt on that side. It was all the boys and one aunt, but they were very kind to us and very good, all of them are very kind. And my mother's side, I remember my grandfather, and I vaguely remember her grandmother. She died when I was around about I guess eight or nine, she had a stroke.	37:13
Mary Hebert	So you did get to spend time with them as you were growing up?	38:02
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, especially my father's people. We lived beside them.	38:04
Mary Hebert	Oh, okay. Did any other relatives live in the neighborhood?	38:08
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, my uncle lived. Okay. My aunt owned a cottage beside us. And beside that, my daddy's brother lived with his wife. And then my grandmother lived on the left side of us. So London Street was just about all Whitfields.	38:11
Mary Hebert	So did any of your relatives live in the house with you, live in your house?	38:35
Jean Whitefield Perry	No.	38:45
Mary Hebert	It was just your immediate family?	38:46
Jean Whitefield Perry	No, my mother started out living with her in—laws, which was daddy's mother, but they assumed, they were very prosperous. They would work hard and to make it, so it was in those days was you were moving up if you had a home and you own it. At that time, Black people did not do a lot of traveling, they believed in purchasing a house. They didn't move up in the house, but like a starter home now, no. If they bought a home, they reared their children and sent them to school. They did their best they could. They kept them in churches, way back then, churches helped the families in the community to educate children who wished to go. But in my family, they did not have to. We were known at that time to be prosperous in that time, that they maintained their own. They didn't need the help of the church. But many families did get help of the church, they couldn't.	38:48
Mary Hebert	Did your family help out needy families?	39:58
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes. They would give clothes that we didn't have and they would clean children clothes free. And they would let them parents run running bills for patent medicine or stockings and things they need, yes. Mama wasn't as liberal as daddy, daddy would give everything away.	40:00
Mary Hebert	Did he have a garden?	40:25
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, I even had my own little victory garden.	40:27
Mary Hebert	Oh, you did?	40:29
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, my father had a garden and he encouraged us to help if we wanted to. We didn't have to, but I liked gardening, and so I had my own little victory garden. So we always had a garden for that, but it wasn't very large. It was in the backyard. And we only had maybe tomatoes and okras and maybe some salad. Hanover salad, and peppers and maybe onions. We didn't have corn and things like that. And potatoes, we didn't have a big one. Just a little one. They call it a victory garden. Yes, did y'all have a victory garden?	40:30
Speaker 1	Yes, we had a victory garden.	41:13
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yeah, victory garden.	41:13
Speaker 1	Matter of fact, our victory garden was next door to our house.	41:13
Jean Whitefield Perry	Okay.	41:21
Speaker 1	And the property was not my daddy's property.	41:22
Jean Whitefield Perry	Property, but they let you tend it.	41:23
Speaker 1	Two lots that belonged to Dr. Webb's mother, and she didn't keep the grass cut, so if I cut the grass, the rows would grow.	41:24
Jean Whitefield Perry	Rows.	41:32
Speaker 1	And we did.	41:32
Jean Whitefield Perry	And people were like that. If they were not attending their, they had land and they were attending, they didn't mind to let you. And they asked nothing of you. You may give them certain things out the garden, but it wasn't required. People just helped each other.	41:34
Mary Hebert	Who handled the money in your family?	41:57
Jean Whitefield Perry	My mother.	41:59
Mary Hebert	Did she make most of the decisions?	42:03
Jean Whitefield Perry	She made all of them. She made all of them. They were quite good. But it hampered the girls, and you want to know how. It made the girls very, very strong, opinionated. Hard for any men to deal with. We saw men not in a strong sense because my father was soft and easygoing. I never heard arguments, I just heard my mother fussing. But it made me, I thought when I got married, that the man was supposed to come home and bring his money home and I was supposed to pay the bills. I got a rude, it certainly was awakening to find out that men did not do that.	42:04
Jean Whitefield Perry	I also thought that you ate at night dinner, because that's when we would get our supper at night because my parents worked in the business, and that's when they would come home. And it was enlightening to see that people ate at 3:00, 4:00, and 5:00. And so our life was a lot different from the surrounding areas. But I wouldn't know because I wasn't there. I would be at home. Sundays, we ate in the daytime, but I thought that was Sundays. And I thought you only ate beans and franks on Saturdays.	43:15
Mary Hebert	So y'all didn't have big meals on Saturdays at all?	44:02
Jean Whitefield Perry	No, we had pickups and beans and franks.	44:04
Mary Hebert	Did the system of segregation and Jim Crow laws impact you—	44:11
Jean Whitefield Perry	Okay, yes, but I'm going to tell you how. The area we lived in is, what was that? World War II when I was a little girl.	44:14
Speaker 1	World War II.	44:27
Mary Hebert	World War II.	44:27
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yeah. Okay.	44:28
Speaker 1	[indistinct 00:44:30].	44:28
Jean Whitefield Perry	Right. Okay.	44:29
Mary Hebert	A teenager.	44:33
Jean Whitefield Perry	Right, I was a teenager. And when the navy, this is a seaport town, and they didn't have housing for all of the service people. That was my first encounter with White, living with them. And we had a very nice house on the corner, and this family moved in this house, which was a two—story house. And we got along very well until the grandmother decided to come and live with them that summer. And that's when I found out they had those special names for Blacks, and that Sharon could not play with us. But the mother always apologized, and Sharon still comes to see us.	44:34
Mary Hebert	So you played with her until her grandmother.	45:31
Jean Whitefield Perry	I played with her until that summer and her grandmother came and called us ugly names and told us that Sharon would not be coming down to play with us anymore. She had a brother named Wendell, and she had another little sister. But when she would leave, of course our friendship grew. And even today, Sharon is a part of my life. So I wasn't allowed to go in little rooms to purchase anything, so I didn't get the things that most children might have encountered. I wasn't taught hatred. I was taught that we all were equal and treat them as you wanted to be treated. So therefore, I wasn't allowed to go to places didn't allow Blacks to come in the front door. I wasn't allowed to try on hats that they wanted to put paper in. So therefore, I didn't encounter angry Whites.	45:33
Mary Hebert	And was it your mother who didn't allow this or?	46:39
Jean Whitefield Perry	Yes, and my daddy was too soft. Mother didn't allow it. She said, "I'm not going to pay you for it and beg you for it too." She was a proud woman.	46:41

Jean Whitefield Perry	My life as a child was wonderful. I always thought I was short-changed in the family because I had so many chores and so much was expected of me. But being my mother being rigid made me because I'm sure I wouldn't have been what I am today if it had not been for the type of mother and the community that I grew up in.	0:03
Jean Whitefield Perry	My values are still quite high. I got things that I won't do at 62 that I see children do now. And I want to do them in my heart, but I just can't. So, I thank her for that. My father gave me the love that you need to nurture a child, to make her not want to go out and embrace the world outside of the home. But he nurtured me so I feel fulfilled.	0:34
Jean Whitefield Perry	Mother did the part in bringing me up and making me what I am, but the softness in me and the love that I have and feel secure came from my father. The secure knowing that I'm going to eat. I never worried about eating. I never worried about where a place to stay. The strength that I have came from my mother. It also depleted me of two husbands too.	1:12
Jean Whitefield Perry	So, good things and bad things. But balancing my life, it is wonderful. I'm retired. I have four children that love me dearly. I don't have to do anything I don't want to do and that's a good feeling. So, it all stems back to the way I was brought up.	1:41

Item Info

Title:

Jean Perry interview recording, 1995 August 12

Date:

August 12, 1995

Creator:

Perry, Jean Whitefield

Contributor:

Hebert, Mary

Description:

Name: Jean Whitefield Perry; Date of birth: unknown; Place of birth: Portsmouth, VA; Occupation(s): educator; Residence: Portsmouth, VA
Informant ID: 987; Interviewed by: Mary Hebert.

Occupation:

Educator

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-1327
fb2558dd-8d79-4c7c-90d0-5e9aa3c9258e
behindtheveil
74d85a38-d584-49a0-886e-3e03e540f788
ark:/87924/r4sx6gk3n
74d85a38-d584-49a0-886e-3e03e540f788

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Jean Perry interview recording, 1995 August 12

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1. Jean Perry administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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