Jessie Walton interview recording, 1995 June 26
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| Jessie Walton | Jessie Walton. | 0:01 |
| Stacey Scales | Jessie Walton? | 0:02 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah. | 0:03 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. When did you come to the Memphis area? | 0:03 |
| Jessie Walton | I come to the Memphis area in 1943. | 0:03 |
| Stacey Scales | 1943. | 0:03 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah. | 0:14 |
| Stacey Scales | Where were you coming from? | 0:15 |
| Jessie Walton | I was coming from [indistinct 00:00:21] area. Now, a place called Eatonville. | 0:18 |
| Stacey Scales | Oh, yeah? | 0:24 |
| Jessie Walton | About three miles [indistinct 00:00:26]. | 0:24 |
| Stacey Scales | What made you come to this area? | 0:27 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, my older brother was coming out the Army and he come out there and he did [indistinct 00:00:39]. So, he wanted his younger brother [indistinct 00:00:41] is with him, so that's why I go. | 0:30 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 0:43 |
| Jessie Walton | But, see. This not being foul. You're way too far back for no reason at all. I mean, I don't see no reason. Actually, what we doing is really not y'all business anyway, after all that. Why you got to go that far back and get into our history, something like that? | 0:45 |
| Stacey Scales | I just wanted to know about some of the things that— | 1:09 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah, but you want to know too much. You don't know a lot of things that's nothing really, it's history. It's not nobody's business. And so, I don't know why we should do it. | 1:12 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. | 1:21 |
| Jessie Walton | So, if I don't answer your questions that's the way I feel about it. | 1:25 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. | 1:27 |
| Jessie Walton | Because you are asking something that I don't feel like it's your business, going all the way back there. | 1:27 |
| Stacey Scales | So, what would you like to talk about? | 1:34 |
| Jessie Walton | Oh, I don't know. I might answer a few more questions. | 1:43 |
| Stacey Scales | How was life growing up here? | 1:45 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, growing up here, I was, see, I was just about to in Memphis, I was about 16 or 17, somewhere like that. I was out on my own then. My older brother come up and so, I was running around here and there, and different jobs. I was cutting yards and doing rounds. You wouldn't have too much to worry about. No way. | 1:45 |
| Stacey Scales | Were there places that you wouldn't go around— | 2:42 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, places I couldn't go, the places that didn't a lot of teenagers at, see. That was during the time World War II was jumping over there. You had to be a certain age to get in the beer joints and things, so I couldn't go in there because I was about, like I said, about 16, 17. I was big enough to go, but I didn't go. | 2:44 |
| Stacey Scales | Did you ever feel like you were discriminated against because you were a Black man? | 3:14 |
| Jessie Walton | It was a funny thing, even down in Mississippi, around there where I was kind of raised up at until I was about 12. I didn't feel that way because the people had two White boys and we were about the same age. Well, maybe a year or two different in us. We all played together, especially, me and them. | 3:22 |
| Jessie Walton | When they get out of the school clothes [indistinct 00:03:47], then I would [indistinct 00:03:51] because that was cotton chopping time and they would come out and get me. And, my step-daddy wouldn't want me to go. And so, sometimes, my mother had to come out and told them. Anytime that I send the boys out, said, "Don't let me have to come out no more." | 3:45 |
| Jessie Walton | I said the boys come out, want him to play with him. [indistinct 00:04:14], said, "Well, if it get out of hand, we'll hire some cotton choppers, but let Jessie go play with the kids when they come out." Shucks. We going down to walking somewhere, to her mother's house. I go down there with the boys. I didn't sleep with them, but I slept in the same room on a pallet. So, I didn't feel that way. | 4:11 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 4:46 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah. | 4:46 |
| Stacey Scales | Your family, they worked cotton? | 4:46 |
| Jessie Walton | Cotton farmers, yeah. | 4:48 |
| Stacey Scales | Oh, okay. | 4:49 |
| Jessie Walton | Sharecroppers is what you call it. | 4:50 |
| Stacey Scales | They came to Memphis as well when— | 4:56 |
| Jessie Walton | No. I had a step-daddy. He was What you call it? Alcoholic. I couldn't stay there with him. After I got to be 16, I think I left home when I was 14. I was there taking care everybody because he's an alcoholic. So, I said, "Well." I didn't know the old saying now like, "You do bad by yourself," but had I, that's what I done, so anyway, I left. I was out on my own. My brother come out from the Army. And so, I think I was about 16. I'd been out for a couple years when I was 14. | 4:58 |
| Stacey Scales | What type of things were there available to do for entertainment? | 5:48 |
| Jessie Walton | Entertainment? Well, there was places that's entertainment. You could go to Rufus Thomas was famous down there. And, Rufus Bones. You go to the Palace on Tuesday night, I think it was, Wednesday night one. | 5:52 |
| Stacey Scales | The Palace? | 6:13 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah. It was We called it Amateur Night, something like that. Plenty of places to go. Mm-hmm. | 6:13 |
| Stacey Scales | Do you remember your first job that you worked? | 6:24 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah, my first job, I was working at a place called Agnamasters Company. It was on Cooper and Union. I worked there for a while. Then, I got a job at the Forest Hills area, worked there for a while. And then, William William. Madison and Cooper, I lived and rode [indistinct 00:07:02] bicycle. Oh, job plentiful. If I get on a job I didn't want to, so I quit. [indistinct 00:07:10] take care of me, I was | 6:26 |
| Stacey Scales | Were there ever really hard times? | 7:11 |
| Jessie Walton | No hard times. | 7:17 |
| Stacey Scales | No? | 7:17 |
| Jessie Walton | No hard times, even the places I used to work for. The White people was in charge. They kind of liked me because sometimes, I would maybe I quit working for the guy at the grocery store. Maybe he hasn't seen me in about six months. That was life on a Saturday night, he paid off. I'd go by, tell him I want to get 15. He said, "15? You ain't working for me no more." That's when I come in Monday. "Which one of y'all need somebody?" When he get through paying the other guys, he going to let me have the $15. I come in Monday. It wasn't no problem for me. | 7:18 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 8:02 |
| Jessie Walton | It wasn't no problem for me. Then, I worked at Seal Tess. [indistinct 00:08:10] that Seal Tess. I expect I might've retired from Seal Tess if I had known that anything about unions like I did now. But, I didn't know anything about it, so I let them laid me off and kept somebody with less seniority than me. | 8:02 |
| Stacey Scales | When you moved here, did you move to the Orange Mound area? | 8:27 |
| Jessie Walton | When I come to Memphis? | 8:34 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes, sir. | 8:37 |
| Jessie Walton | No, somewhere out on Cooper and Peabody, in that area. I was living in the Laraya of Cooper and Peabody. | 8:43 |
| Stacey Scales | Was that an all Black neighborhood? | 8:51 |
| Jessie Walton | No, it was all White neighborhood then. If a Black person in that area, you was most likely living in Laraya. Now, just one set of Blacks was [indistinct 00:09:07] live on the street there, right down the street from here. [indistinct 00:09:11]. He was living at the time. And so, he lived on Peabody. | 8:52 |
| Jessie Walton | So, we lived about two, three blocks from him. But, we all got along. We know our places and we got along with people. I don't know who—we go to café. We come in the back and they serve us. And, [indistinct 00:09:33] serve us. They won't serve us, then | 9:15 |
| Stacey Scales | Were there any Black businesses? | 9:37 |
| Jessie Walton | Huh? | 9:39 |
| Stacey Scales | Did they have Black businesses, then, that you would go to? | 9:40 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, Black businesses was down on Beale Street. Most of them was on Beale, maybe. There was a few out here in Lower East Mountain. We come out I think it was called Bessie's Chicken Shack or something like that. | 9:40 |
| Stacey Scales | Was life much different between Mississippi and Tennessee? | 10:08 |
| Jessie Walton | When I got to Memphis after, I was so much younger than my brothers. I couldn't go with them when they go out on the weeknights, so I was usual, a loner. Okay. Now, let me tell you about life anywhere. If you go tend to your own business and wasn't nobody bother you, that's as of today. You can go somewhere alone and they won't bother you. But, if you go somewhere with two or three and one shooting off his mouth and something like that, you go. There's always somebody that go, "I think he's a wise guy." You close it for him, you know? | 10:19 |
| Jessie Walton | Okay. I meet a girl that she lived in Orange Mountain where people didn't allow no boys. She lived on [indistinct 00:11:21], somewhere down in there. I'd go down there in [indistinct 00:11:27]. I was a loner. I'd go there by Hamilton and Douglass. Wherever I go, tell me to come see her. I didn't have no car at the time. I catch the bus, get off the bus, walk across the long railroad, down to there and go on out and see her. | 11:09 |
| Jessie Walton | Ain't nobody bother me because I was a loner. If I'd kept one more with me, then I might've got jumped. And that's just about the way it is now. If you travel alone, most of the time, and you tend to your own business, nobody bother you, hardly. But, if you go with two or three, more likely there's a wise guy in the bunch, shooting off his mouth. | 11:42 |
| Stacey Scales | Were there any times that that wise guy—you've seen that wise guy in trouble? | 12:15 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, see, it's just like this place down here. When they first put this skating thing down on Beale. What they call it? | 12:23 |
| Stacey Scales | The roller skating? | 12:35 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah. Uh-huh. Well, most of the youngsters was going down there and have a good time. I'll be alone. I'll be standing out there alone and here come somebody out there, and then the boys, a guy be standing by arguing with one guy. The other guy, he didn't say nothing to him and knock him down, see. Well, now, I'm standing there seeing all of that and say like I say, I'm standing there ain't bothered by it. My mouth didn't get me in that trouble. His mouth got him in that trouble. Well, I don't start argue with the guy and I don't know. | 12:36 |
| Stacey Scales | Do you remember the Joe Louis fights? | 13:20 |
| Jessie Walton | The Joe Louis fight? | 13:21 |
| Stacey Scales | Yeah. | 13:22 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah. Who did he fight? I remember quite a few of Joe Louis' fights. | 13:24 |
| Stacey Scales | Oh, yeah? | 13:27 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah. | 13:29 |
| Stacey Scales | Did you have a radio to listen to it? | 13:30 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah. I had a radio. Yeah. Well, matter of fact, way back then I was just a little taller. Well, no. See, I was born in '28 and this around '32, or something like that. '30 something, Joe Louis was fighting Maximilian. I remember that, listening to that on the radio. I followed Joe Louis' career probably pretty good. Yeah. | 13:32 |
| Stacey Scales | How did people react when he was winning? | 14:01 |
| Jessie Walton | Oh, man. I worked for a supervisor at Seal Tess and that fight he had with Schmeling. He grabbed his wife's radio, him and his wife had a bet. Then, he grabbed the radio and throw it out there, throw it out the window, broke it. And I think he roasted his wife. She roasted him one. He was so cruel about it. His [indistinct 00:14:27] Schmeling, didn't care how he did it. He was going to win the match, but he didn't. The last one. | 14:03 |
| Stacey Scales | He was pretty upset. | 14:34 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah, he was pretty upset. Yeah. | 14:36 |
| Stacey Scales | How did most Black people react when he'd win? | 14:40 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, Black people was happy. They was happy because that was one man they could look up to. One Black man they could look up to. People was happy. Like me, I had some pretty totally expenses on my different jobs. When I was working—there was a job I retired from, Ronco. I started out as a box maker. And then, they [indistinct 00:15:23] bumping me. I worked there in 1961. They still was prejudiced. They had Black water fountain, Colored one there. Colored restrooms and the White ones there. And so, okay. I went along with it. | 14:44 |
| Jessie Walton | But, I had been working there [indistinct 00:15:51] in different places when I got down there. At that time, they were changing uniforms once a week. I come in there and I'm working with a bunch of White women. So, a guy been there about 10, 12 years and this my first day on the job. I find out how to change clothes. I was pretty sweaty, so I went and told the supervisor, which was a White woman. I said, "I hear you don't change clothes once a week." And I said, "Now, you see how I'm sweating, perspiring." | 15:50 |
| Jessie Walton | I said, "Now, changing once a week down there. A couple of days, the way I'm sweating, this suit going to be sour. And them women are going to be saying that I'm smelly. It ain't going to be me, it's going to be this old uniform that I'm worked in [indistinct 00:17:01]." I said, "But, I got some white uniforms at home. If the boss don't mind, I'll wear mine so I won't be that way. I ain't trying to be no rouge or nothing like that." | 16:43 |
| Jessie Walton | "Okay. Well, then, I'll see. I'll see the boss." And so, the brothers got talking. "This guy just come in here, ain't finish the day out yet and try to change folks' policies." Shucks. That ain't going to happen, what he talking about. Well, that was that morning. And either by 1:00 or 1:30, she come around and getting everybody's sizes. We'll start changing every other day. | 17:09 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. | 17:47 |
| Jessie Walton | That first day of the job I made a change like that, see. | 17:50 |
| Stacey Scales | That's all right. | 17:52 |
| Jessie Walton | Okay. We was downtown, where the City Hall is now. Then, they built the place out on South Boxdale. 800 South Boxdale. And we went out there, so I had a choice of working from 3:00 to 11:00 and something they called taking a Polish job. A Polish job is less pay. And so, I took the job from 3:00 to 11:00. I worked down there for about—the guy was get me ready, [indistinct 00:18:32]. Old guys been there for about 10, 12 years. I would come in at eating time to relieve them. They worked from 7:00 to 3:00, 7:00 to 3:30. I worked from 3:00 to 11:00. | 17:54 |
| Jessie Walton | And so, on my shift, I didn't have to punch out for lunch. The company paid me for my lunch. But, only guy on the shift that'd been there years, he had to punch out at 12:00. Man, he was around there snitching to the boss good on me. So, the supervisor tell me himself, "Jessie, you want to come back in the morning? We need somebody to work in the morning, help us out here." I said, "How long I have to work?" He said, "Well, you can work the whole 16, work from 7:00 to 7:00, 7:00 to 11:00. Or you can split it up and work 12 hours." So, I work sometimes 16 and then, sometimes— | 18:51 |
| Jessie Walton | But, I was watching this dude doing all the talking on, done the same thing I was doing. The guy I'm going to relieve at 3:30, I was watching him. Man, he cut the thing, cut the saw open, roll, stay somewhere. I would play with it. Everybody come by, killing all kind of time. | 19:35 |
| Jessie Walton | But, he telling the man because he been there. The man thought he was right. And so, he got around to me. The man stopped me and asked me question and I've been watching him. I said, "I'll tell you what you do." I said, "Now, you here from about 7:30 yourself in the morning." I said, "You actually wanted to work on that from 7:00 to 3:30 and you'll find out exactly who goofing off. I ain't going to tell you who this one and that one." | 19:53 |
| Jessie Walton | So, he come. There was two of them. They come out of there and seen the other man standing out, the big man did. "What you waiting on?" I said, "Well, take two of us to operate the saw. I'm waiting on the second man." Well, the boss timed him. Oh, how late he showed up. Man, the boss jumped down his throat. Man, woo, threatened to fire him, threatened to kick him and everything to him. That guy got scared. Man running. He was doing everything, could've been everything. So, first chance he had, he got off that shift and went out of town, went down to industrial. | 20:20 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, about I don't know three years later, I went out down there to industrial. So, the White supervisor down there, they going to say, "Well, I don't know what he coming down for. Hell, I'm going to file for a probation and get him fired before probation period." Well, the big man done told me, said, "You ain't got to be scared of us down there," said, "We coming around." Said, "Only problem there, when we come around, we don't be checking on nobody, spying on nobody. We just come around and check the product and make sure it's running right." | 20:57 |
| Jessie Walton | But, they talked to me, so I take the job. So, I took the job. The big man done heard that the supervisor said this. Said, "Well, I ain't going to let him train you. Let you come in 3:00 to 11:00, they'll train you." So, I worked one day from 3:00 to 11:00. And this foreman, that supervisor, this foreman was so sure that he—but, the guy showed me enough for one day for me to know what it's all about. | 21:31 |
| Jessie Walton | The next day, I come in 7:00 to 3:00. I left my stuff all over the floor. The big man was screaming on me. So, the man who owned the plant told me said, "Well, now, we all got one spot in particular. This spot back here wasn't finished [indistinct 00:22:27] coming down there dry." Said, "This is your number one, so you make sure you have it straightened out before you go up front doing something else. And, make sure you find out how long it take one to fill up." | 22:01 |
| Jessie Walton | So, [indistinct 00:22:43]. Okay. The foreman be screaming hundreds of times trying to get rid of this nobody. I ain't going to move [indistinct 00:22:52] right down there. Well, they couldn't get me on that one. I go down there. Well, he come in. He come in at 7:00. About 8:00, he tell me, "I'm going to drink me a cup of coffee." He wasn't calling no break. Okay. He go drink that cup of coffee. By 8:30, he come back. I tell him about 9:00, I said, "I'm going to drink me a cup of coffee." | 22:41 |
| Jessie Walton | "Well, the boss is over there." I said, "That's all right. They drink their coffee. I'm drinking mine." I go over there, the boss said, "What y'all got screwed up over there?" I said, "Nothing yet." | 23:17 |
| Stacey Scales | Were the wages the same for Blacks and for Whites? | 23:29 |
| Jessie Walton | Yeah. Well, just about. It all depend on your position. | 23:33 |
| Stacey Scales | Oh, okay. | 23:36 |
| Jessie Walton | See, that time now, we was in a union. Depend on your position. | 23:37 |
| Stacey Scales | And this was during the '50s or— | 23:42 |
| Jessie Walton | No, no, no. This now. This about—let's see. Right now, it's about I've been there about five years now. This is around '68 or something '67 or something '67, '68. | 23:46 |
| Jessie Walton | I'm learning how to be a machine operator, make the product, which [indistinct 00:24:16]. I'm trying to be the number one man on that day, though. The foreman just sit up, go to sleep. Someone sleeping, looked around and he come down there and see me sitting down. He said, "Don't let the man catch you sitting down. He'll chew you out." I said, "Uh-uh. He'll have to wake you up, chew you out for sleeping on the job. And then, he'll get around yell at me for sitting down here. But, he don't say nothing to you, I bet you he ain't say nothing to me." | 24:11 |
| Jessie Walton | And so, man, they sent to me, man. Boss come around look at the product, I'm sitting there and the product look good, salute me and keep on going. Well, [indistinct 00:25:00] in it. | 24:46 |
| Stacey Scales | Do you have anything else you want to share? | 25:03 |
| Jessie Walton | No more than I got to be a union steward. And then I didn't go to school until nothing about computers. So, it shows you how the long way fades out. They come in on the shortcut and they computerized the shortcut machine. So, there's a young White fellow that come down, about 23 from New York. The city [indistinct 00:25:30] for the computer. They had a week to do it. The chief engineer, one the die hard guys, he said, "Well, this Yankee ain't going to tell me nothing." | 25:05 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, he said a big cuss word. Okay. Well, I stayed with the White fellow. I said, "Well, I may have to take a low paying job." But, at the same time, had nobody down there took up computing, including the supervisor, foreman, nobody. And then, nobody there, the only somebody know somebody was the guy setting the machine up. And nobody there was going to pay—they were so hard-hearted, they weren't going to show—they wanted him tell him nothing. | 25:45 |
| Jessie Walton | So, I stuck with the young fellow. The young Yankee. Man, in the Fridays he was there, when he left, I had it. I had it. Lord had done give to me. Yeah. | 26:12 |
| Stacey Scales | How far did you go in school? | 26:25 |
| Jessie Walton | Oh, I didn't make it too far. About 8th grade or something like that. Mm-hmm. Okay. | 26:37 |
| Stacey Scales | I have just a few more questions. | 26:37 |
| Jessie Walton | All right. All right. | 26:37 |
| Stacey Scales | I was wondering, was church mandatory during that time? | 26:38 |
| Jessie Walton | Church? | 26:41 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. | 26:42 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, I [indistinct 00:26:44] religion when I was 12 years old. One thing, I always had something inside of me that guide me to do the right and the wrong things now. I couldn't do another individual wrong, intentionally. If I meet a girl and it'll break her heart or if I wasn't taking her too serious, I had to apologize. I couldn't help that— | 26:43 |
| Stacey Scales | Was that instilled in you from your family? | 27:15 |
| Jessie Walton | Huh? | 27:16 |
| Stacey Scales | Was that instilled in you by your family? That put into you by your mom and dad? | 27:17 |
| Jessie Walton | From religion? | 27:22 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. To do— | 27:23 |
| Jessie Walton | Oh, yeah. That was mandatory. We had to go to church and go to the morning [indistinct 00:27:35]. Yeah. Every time that they did holy revival, we was age—they wouldn't let us do it until we was 12 years old. Now, some of these young kids now, they're four and five and seven, eight, nine, they're being baptized. Well, I got nothing to do with that. I can't judge nobody because Jesus said, "[indistinct 00:28:00] little children come to me and bid them not." So, it just came [indistinct 00:28:04]. | 27:25 |
| Jessie Walton | I can deal with it. So, He didn't say how old you had to be. It said except we come out as a child. We cannot enter. You see? And so, ain't nobody going to be grown, standing full out with his chest out. | 28:04 |
| Stacey Scales | So, that was true with your grandparents too? | 28:23 |
| Jessie Walton | Uh-huh. | 28:25 |
| Stacey Scales | Yeah? How are your— | 28:26 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, I didn't know too much about my grandparents. My grandfather was dead when I was—well, I didn't remember him. I'll say that. | 28:27 |
| Stacey Scales | They never told you stories about how life was way back? | 28:41 |
| Jessie Walton | No. The only thing I find out how life was was when I kind of experienced it along the way. | 28:45 |
| Stacey Scales | Do people ever talk about superstitions and things like that in the South? | 28:56 |
| Jessie Walton | Superstitions. Yeah, they talked about superstitious things, but I didn't believe in that stuff. | 29:03 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. | 29:07 |
| Jessie Walton | The way to Him was in me and the hymn of the Word, see. I said I [indistinct 00:29:15] religion at 12 years old and I know I had that in me. See. And so, I wasn't afraid of nothing. That's when I went all them places, I was a loner. I go to all them places, I had something in me that was guiding me. I was doing too far wrong, I pass a mirror, I talk to myself a little bit about it. I said, "What are you doing over here?" Whatever. | 29:09 |
| Stacey Scales | Did you get a chance to travel outside of the Delta region? | 29:42 |
| Jessie Walton | Well, after I got grown, [indistinct 00:29:51] and worked at this place—yes, I got a chance to go on vacations and something like that. And then, and, I got married. Me and wife, we done a lot of traveling because it was 10 years before we had any children. | 29:47 |
| Stacey Scales | Oh, okay. | 30:05 |
| Jessie Walton | So, in them 10 years, we go somewhere every year. Mm-hmm. | 30:05 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 30:08 |
| Jessie Walton | All right. | 30:08 |
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