Parie Mathis interview recording, 1995 July 20

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Parie Lee Mathis	Well, my name is Perry Lee Mathis.	0:02
Stacey Scales	And where were you born, Ms. Mathis?	0:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Weidner.	0:06
Stacey Scales	Weidner.	0:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	0:06
Stacey Scales	What are your earliest memories when you were growing up?	0:11
Parie Lee Mathis	Weidner. That's where I lived all this time.	0:19
Stacey Scales	When you was a little girl what are some of the things you would do?	0:20
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, talking about playing?	0:23
Stacey Scales	Yes, ma'am.	0:25
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, we played satisfied. That's a game.	0:26
Stacey Scales	What was satisfied?	0:33
Parie Lee Mathis	It's a game.	0:34
Stacey Scales	Oh yes?	0:34
Parie Lee Mathis	Uh-huh.	0:34
Stacey Scales	How would you play that?	0:34
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh, just get a ring of children, just a round ring, go skipping round and one's saying, "Satisfy." Well, it was beautiful then, but it sounds ignorant now [laughs].	0:42
Stacey Scales	Doesn't sound ignorant.	0:51
Parie Lee Mathis	And hunting the ball. B-ball.	0:56
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	1:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. We would play that. And then we—there's another kind of ball game we used to play too. I guess that's what you want, something like that, don't you?	1:07
Stacey Scales	Okay.	1:19
Parie Lee Mathis	Uh-huh.	1:19
Stacey Scales	What did your parents do for a living?	1:23
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, we was farming.	1:26
Stacey Scales	Oh yes?	1:28
Parie Lee Mathis	Uh-huh. Yeah, my daddy farmed and my mother was there, they farmed, and we did too. Us children had to help, you know? Yeah. Then I married. I married, and then I think I worked four years in that, and then after that, well, we went on away from the farming and I didn't farm no more. So that killed [indistinct 00:02:04] from farming. I was glad though. I got tired of that farming.	1:33
Stacey Scales	Did your parents own their own place?	2:10
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. My father. Yeah. He owned his own place, so he did.	2:13
Stacey Scales	What kind of crops would he raise on that?	2:17
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, he raised corn and apples. We had peaches and plum trees just all around the house, and cotton. Yeah, we had plenty cotton.	2:18
Stacey Scales	And how much would you get for cotton back then?	2:40
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh lord, do I know [laughs]. It wasn't too much, but it was a—let me see. Since I had [indistinct 00:02:58], I can't think as good as I could when I—	2:41
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:03:03].	3:02
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm. Let me see. Do I know? I don't. Just don't know now.	3:02
Stacey Scales	Did your grandparents farm too?	3:17
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, it was him too. But after this year, after he passed, we moved on in his house, my grandpa's house. It was my daddy had the land then. And so yeah, my grandma died first and my grandfather died next. And then my daddy fell into the home house.	3:23
Stacey Scales	Did they ever tell you how it was for them when they were growing up?	3:48
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, [indistinct 00:03:50] was picking cotton. They had to go at six and leave at six. They had more hours in the field than we did. And my mother always talks about that. She didn't like the way they farmed then because they would farm at six and go to bed at seven or seven-thirty somewhere along in there. Soon as they can get their breakfast—their dinner done and eat and wash the dishes, go on to bed.	3:50
Stacey Scales	So were they working for somebody else?	4:30
Parie Lee Mathis	No.	4:32
Stacey Scales	But they were working from their home?	4:34
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Yeah. Everybody was going to the field then. Mm-hmm. Everybody was going to the field.	4:37
Stacey Scales	Did they ever talk about how they got along with the local Whites there?	4:48
Parie Lee Mathis	The local rights?	4:53
Stacey Scales	White people.	4:55
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh, White people. Well they all—well, you know, it's different now than it was then, because we would get through with our cotton first, we had to go and help them.	4:56
Stacey Scales	The White folks?	5:08
Parie Lee Mathis	Huh? No. No. Colored folk. It wasn't hardly many White folks making no farm just any Negroes. They was making the farm county cotton to that gin. But yes, they farmed and made cotton, corn, all of that.	5:14
Stacey Scales	Did they talk about slavery times, your grandparents?	5:32
Parie Lee Mathis	Well they talked about it, but just me remembering it too much now. Now, I used to could talk it to my children, but since I had this feeling, whatever it is, come over me, I ain't got the rememberance that I had.	5:36
Stacey Scales	Do you remember how much they would get paid or if they got paid?	6:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, a dollar a 100, a dollar and half a 100. That wasn't no money, but it was some. Mm-hmm.	6:14
Stacey Scales	Did Weidner have Black businesses?	6:26
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, that's where we was at, between Weidner and Round Pond.	6:29
Stacey Scales	And were there Black folks that had their own business there?	6:35
Parie Lee Mathis	No, they had to sharecrop for you. You the boss, a White boss man, and they could move in a house on your place, well that's who they sharecrop for.	6:38
Stacey Scales	Oh. And they worked for a sharecropper.	6:51
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	6:53
Stacey Scales	How did that work when people sharecropped?	6:54
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, it worked kind of like it do now. It wasn't too much. You'd get maybe 200 dollars at the end of the year. At the end of the year, [indistinct 00:07:09] on your crop, you had to put your [indistinct 00:07:12] to the gin and have it cut up and save it to eat.	6:59
Stacey Scales	Did people ever get cheated out of their work?	7:20
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh yeah. Yeah, they got cheated, but you couldn't say nothing. You couldn't say nothing. It was rough among those White people. Because you didn't see no White people hardly ever. One White person would be in the field. They riding around telling the Negroes what to do.	7:23
Stacey Scales	They were on horses?	7:44
Parie Lee Mathis	Hmm?	7:46
Stacey Scales	Were they on horses?	7:46
Parie Lee Mathis	Some of them on horses. Some of them in a truck.	7:47
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	7:47
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	7:52
Stacey Scales	So if at the end of the year, if they cheated you, you couldn't do anything?	7:55
Parie Lee Mathis	No, because all of them was cheating. All of the White folks. [indistinct 00:08:00] nothing you could do.	7:59
Stacey Scales	How would they cheat you?	7:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Out your crop. What you may [indistinct 00:08:14]. You had to go and settle up with your boss man who you working for, and that's how they get cheated out of it. Yeah.	8:11
Stacey Scales	So when you'd go to settle up, how would they do that?	8:24
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. If you get up in another one, well, if it's ten cent, I'd say if it's twenty cent on 100 you might get ten cent, you know.	8:27
Stacey Scales	Oh, okay.	8:39
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. See the other is free, what he got. You might get ten cent. We couldn't do nothing about it though.	8:41
Stacey Scales	Did people leave?	8:53
Parie Lee Mathis	No. What you leaving for? Now, sometimes they'd have some words if they—if they have some words bad enough, they would leave. But if you—see, I come and talk to you. If it don't sound good to me, I've got this, because I'm going to go to the other neighbor and see how his man is doing. And if he ain't doing it right, and the other one just keep a walker for that day just to see how your boss man done. And if they get the most out of your boss man, that's when they'll move.	8:55
Stacey Scales	Would they split families up back then?	9:37
Parie Lee Mathis	Split them up?	9:40
Stacey Scales	Separate husband and wife.	9:41
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh no, the wife go with the husband.	9:51
Stacey Scales	Oh yes?	9:51
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Yeah.	9:51
Stacey Scales	And when people left, did they go up north?	9:51
Parie Lee Mathis	No, went to another flour plantation like—yeah. Went to another plantation just like that you left out of, but it's just money would be different.	9:55
Stacey Scales	Did your father hire hands because he had his own place?	10:09
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, he hired some. But you had to go to your boss man and tell him you ain't going to get the crop gathered, we got to hire some. And he'd say, "All right, get your five or ten people to pick some or chop whatever for you." And he'll pay them. And you got to go by what he said it was when you get ready to straighten him up. Although you know what it is.	10:12
Stacey Scales	And would your father's hands get paid money?	10:41
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, he paid them.	10:46
Stacey Scales	How much do you think he paid?	10:46
Parie Lee Mathis	A dollar, dollar and a half for 100.	10:46
Stacey Scales	Okay. And was that in the 30s or 40s?	10:46
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, this was in the—well, it wasn't in the 30s, not with me, because I was born in '29.	11:01
Stacey Scales	Okay.	11:08
Parie Lee Mathis	But in the 40s. I said like that. And course in the 30s, it would've put me a little bitty girl then.	11:14
Stacey Scales	Yeah. Did you have any brothers and sisters?	11:30
Parie Lee Mathis	I had two. Well another girl and two brothers. Four of us.	11:38
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	11:43
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	11:44
Stacey Scales	And would all of your brothers and sisters work on the farm?	11:49
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Sure did. We had a little sack like this hanging on your shoulder, just like they had a long one.	11:53
Stacey Scales	Would they help each other out, the families that lived in that area?	11:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. You get through before I do, you'd help them get through. And if they get through before your other neighbor, you'd help them, and don't charge nothing is what I'm saying. No. Don't charge nothing.	12:08
Stacey Scales	Who delivered the babies back then?	12:25
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh, it was a woman, but it used to be a man doctor in the house. You had to go get him.	12:28
Stacey Scales	Was he a Black man?	12:33
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm. White.	12:34
Stacey Scales	A White man.	12:34
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	12:37
Stacey Scales	Okay.	12:37
Parie Lee Mathis	You could find a Black one every once in a while, but not regular. But the midwomans, you see her walking up the road with her suitcase every day or two.	12:39
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	12:53
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Yep.	12:54
Stacey Scales	And how early would she come to be with the woman?	12:57
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, you talking about if it's born or if it's going to be?	13:01
Stacey Scales	If it's going to be.	13:03
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, the time regular. A woman go to her and she—or the husband would go get the man. Go get the woman, I mean.	13:06
Stacey Scales	Okay.	13:21
Parie Lee Mathis	And she'll stay there a while to see if its coming or something. But if it ain't near time, she just started, she'll leave and go somewhere else, just walking around looking. It was a mess.	13:23
Stacey Scales	So who taught those women how to do all those things?	13:43
Parie Lee Mathis	Now, they had a school they'd go to, and some of them said it was too high and some of them said it wasn't high enough, but she taught them how to go.	13:43
Stacey Scales	Do you remember the name of that school?	13:54
Parie Lee Mathis	No, I don't remember the name.	13:56
Stacey Scales	Was it in Weidner?	13:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was a house, but they met at it for a school. Mm-hmm. They met at it for a school.	14:00
Stacey Scales	And was there one teacher there?	14:12
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, one teacher in this building. But that school would be full.	14:14
Stacey Scales	Do you remember the teacher?	14:24
Parie Lee Mathis	Let me see. Ms. Murphy was one. I know she was. Ms. Clarks was another one. Ms. O'Neil was another one. At that time, I know a lot of them's name.	14:27
Stacey Scales	Did your family use them?	14:51
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Like Ms. Murphy. And if she was gone on somebody else would. Once they go to see if she at home, they go to the next house to get the other.	14:55
Stacey Scales	Oh okay.	15:03
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was something else.	15:04
Stacey Scales	Would people use herbs and different things to help people feel better?	15:14
Parie Lee Mathis	Just some hay and drank two teacups of water or something. I don't know what that was in them cups they give them.	15:18
Stacey Scales	Oh yes?	15:23
Parie Lee Mathis	But no, they didn't use no nothing like that, but that water. You just had to suffer your pains out. Mm-hmm. Sure did.	15:32
Stacey Scales	Would the men be around when—	15:40
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, they'd be on the porch.	15:46
Stacey Scales	Oh, the man would be on the porch.	15:46
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Yeah, the man would, like your husband, he's sitting on the porch. And if the woman acting too much, why they can't, they send for him to come in and hold her.	15:54
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	15:56
Parie Lee Mathis	And talk to her.	15:59
Stacey Scales	And after the baby would come, then what would happen? Would they call for him?	16:01
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, they clean us up then and put us in a bed. Well, I always stayed on the floor and put us in the bed, and then they would send for him to come in and look at the baby. And well, he'll be laughing at the baby then. She said, "You laughing now but a while ago you was crying." Yeah, it was kind of a mess birthing children. Still is. But they just don't have the time that we had with them.	16:08
Stacey Scales	Would people have celebrations when the baby would come?	16:40
Parie Lee Mathis	No, not that I know about. Not that I know about. No celebration.	16:48
Stacey Scales	How long would it be before the woman went back to work?	16:55
Parie Lee Mathis	To [indistinct 00:17:00]?	16:59
Stacey Scales	Oh yes.	16:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Like I have my baby, huh? Well, I'd be about six weeks before I can go to the field.	17:00
Stacey Scales	Oh, it'd be six weeks and then you'd go back?	17:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Yeah. But I have somebody there to see at the baby, some large child. We had it when we's coming.	17:10
Stacey Scales	Would the midwife charge?	17:27
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Now, back there for—the doctor have to come behind the midwife. You got to give the midwife fifteen dollars anyway for coming, and if he don't come, you give her twenty-five.	17:37
Stacey Scales	Oh, okay.	17:50
Parie Lee Mathis	But he'd get more than that if he come [indistinct 00:17:58]. He'd get more than that.	17:54
Stacey Scales	Would they work together?	18:02
Parie Lee Mathis	No, no. Not at my house. Now, I don't know—	18:03
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:18:09]	18:08
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	18:08
Stacey Scales	Okay. And was there a hospital here ever?	18:08
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. I didn't know White and the Negro were going to the same hospital, but they had some side for the Negroes and some side for the White people. But it went on nice, that did. And the doctor, if you had to stay there, the doctor would come around every morning.	18:22
Stacey Scales	And would they have nurses for the Blacks that were—	18:52
Parie Lee Mathis	Uh-huh. Yeah, White nurses.	18:53
Stacey Scales	White nurses for the Black folks?	18:54
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Sure did.	18:58
Stacey Scales	Did they treat people the same at that place?	19:03
Parie Lee Mathis	That's what they say. We wasn't here, you know? We don't know how they was treating them White folk, but I think they was treating them different, because soon as the woman got kind of well enough to try to straighten out walking, they sent her home. The White one still laying up there.	19:06
Stacey Scales	How you doing today, sir? Good.	19:33
Speaker 3	Doing pretty good.	19:36
Stacey Scales	And what was the name of the hospital?	19:38
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, it was named after a man. Let me see now, his name was—let me see. That hospital is still over here.	19:45
Stacey Scales	Oh yes?	19:58
Parie Lee Mathis	Uh-huh. Well, they got a nursing home in it now, but it was a hospital at that time.	19:59
Stacey Scales	Oh yes.	20:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Uh-huh. But he was named—I'm trying to see. I can't even remember that hospital's name right now.	20:21
Stacey Scales	Did your family have a car? Your dad or mom have a car?	20:31
Parie Lee Mathis	No. Mm-mm. Sure didn't. They sure didn't have no car.	20:34
Stacey Scales	Did you all ever go on trips when you were young?	20:46
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm. We could've went at school.	20:51
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	20:57
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. At school, went on a trip. They'd get the boss man's truck and all the kids in that school, put them in the back of that truck, and here they go, teachers in the cab part.	20:57
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	21:07
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. That was fun though to us then, back in that truck. Sure was.	21:08
Stacey Scales	What was the name of your school, Ms. Mathis?	21:15
Parie Lee Mathis	DeRossi.	21:16
Stacey Scales	DeRossi. And at that school, was it all Blacks?	21:16
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, at the school, sure was. Yes, sir. It sure was. All of them was Black.	21:27
Stacey Scales	How long would you go to school through the year?	21:31
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, we went—let me see. In December, January, February, March. When did the first cotton come out of chopping?	21:34
Stacey Scales	I don't know.	21:52
Parie Lee Mathis	April. We went five or six months and had to cut out on school because we had to chop cotton.	21:55
Stacey Scales	Would the White kids have to chop cotton?	22:02
Parie Lee Mathis	No. You ain't see no White folks out there [laughs]. Uh-uh, no White folks chopping.	22:02
Stacey Scales	So they would be in school while you was chopping.	22:10
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	22:11
Stacey Scales	How did you feel about that?	22:15
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, I didn't have no dis—what feeling about it myself, because I know that's what we had to do. Mm-hmm. Sure did.	22:16
Stacey Scales	What kind of lesson did you learn?	22:29
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, it was same almost as this we have now, all but the arithmetic. Now, you had to write your arithmetic on paper. The pastor would call it out to you. You would set it down and add it, and then you go to the board some morning, and write it.	22:33
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	22:53
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	22:54
Stacey Scales	Do you remember your teacher?	22:57
Parie Lee Mathis	Reverend Hudson, one. And the other one, that's the man though, when I was up there. But you talking about the little teacher? Now, he was the big teacher at the older school, you know?	22:59
Stacey Scales	Right.	23:07
Parie Lee Mathis	These men.	23:07
Stacey Scales	Lauren, how are you doing?	23:07
Speaker 4	How are you doing? [indistinct 00:23:16]	23:07
Parie Lee Mathis	I'm doing fine. How are you?	23:07
Stacey Scales	And the teacher [indistinct 00:23:28] students, what was—	23:27
Parie Lee Mathis	Ms. Hudson was one of them. All right.	23:31
Speaker 5	How are you this morning?	23:39
Parie Lee Mathis	All right. How are you feeling?	23:39
Speaker 5	All right.	23:39
Parie Lee Mathis	That's good. Ms. Lily Mae Brown, she was one.	23:45
Stacey Scales	And did you all talk about Black pride and Black history and things like that?	23:48
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they talked about it, but I ain't seen nothing they did, but they might've did. You know? I was young then. Mm-hmm.	23:59
Stacey Scales	And would they talk about leaders and things like Booker T. Washington?	24:10
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they talked about them too. But like me now, I wouldn't even know what they were saying, what they meant either.	24:15
Stacey Scales	When you were growing up, were there places where your mother and dad told you maybe you shouldn't go?	24:31
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. You couldn't go to them beer joints. Well, like you slip off to them or something and my parents find it out, boy, you got a tan up.	24:39
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	24:53
Parie Lee Mathis	Yes, Lord.	24:54
Stacey Scales	Who did the spanking?	24:56
Parie Lee Mathis	Both of them would. Both of them.	24:58
Stacey Scales	Yeah?	25:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Sure did. Both of them. Yeah, both of them would, Mama and Dad.	25:06
Stacey Scales	Do you have a memory getting caught going someplace?	25:06
Parie Lee Mathis	No, I never did get caught going. It's just somebody would always tell it. Now, you know, people would tell then quicker than they do now. They see somebody at a place now, it ain't nothing. But back then, if we slipped off, they going to tell, "Your daughter was at so-and-so. I saw her at so-and-so-and-so." "My gal?" "Yeah."	25:17
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	25:36
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. You got a whooping about it too, because they sure would tell it.	25:36
Stacey Scales	Were there places for all Whites that the Black folks couldn't go?	25:42
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Sure was. You couldn't go, no Whites, going into a place like that. No. Mm-mm.	25:47
Stacey Scales	Do you ever remember really wanting to go someplace and you couldn't?	26:00
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. I wanted to go to [indistinct 00:26:04]. Yeah. I remember going to them. I'd like it to go to them dance hall where the Black folks was going, and the ballgame. Wasn't no White folks out there at the ballgame.	26:02
Stacey Scales	No?	26:28
Parie Lee Mathis	No. Nothing but Negroes. It was nice though at that time, you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. It really was nice.	26:29
Stacey Scales	Where was the ballgame played?	26:39
Parie Lee Mathis	It was played on a company farm. And then when they move from there, they'd go to Ed Belcher's. It's different farmers, home farmers, what you call it, go to them kind of folks to have ballgames on. And child, we used to slip to church and slip from church over to that ballgame. And when they got caught on that too, because the old preacher told it, said, "Your girl wasn't there."	26:41
Parie Lee Mathis	And she asked me was I there. Well, I was. I always was there, but he didn't see me. And I told who all was there at church. And I was there. And Miss so-and-so, and Miss so-and-so. There was a lot of people was at church then. There wasn't a lot of them now.	27:16
Stacey Scales	Did you have to go when you were small?	27:40
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Talking about the church?	27:43
Stacey Scales	Yes ma'am.	27:44
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Sure did. I sure did have to go. Now, I couldn't slip to the ballgame though when Mama went. Mm-mm. I couldn't slip there.	27:52
Stacey Scales	You used to slip when she wasn't there?	27:58
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Yeah. Sure did. You wouldn't get to go no ballgame if you didn't slip there.	28:03
Stacey Scales	Did other people in church slip too?	28:07
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, all of them wouldn't slip. Some of them were scared. You know?	28:10
Stacey Scales	Right.	28:14
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. But we slipped. Some of us slipped and some of us didn't.	28:15
Stacey Scales	So how would you manage to get out without people seeing?	28:23
Parie Lee Mathis	Get out from the game or get out from your house?	28:27
Stacey Scales	Get out from the church and slip down to the game.	28:31
Parie Lee Mathis	Well see, the game road goes my way. This my road going straight this way. That's the Company Farm road is going that way, so that's where the children on that road would go and the children on this road to go. So I'd get on my road and go to the highway and go down and then turn and put [indistinct 00:28:53] in the field. But they didn't watch me, couldn't see that far, because of the bush.	28:32
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	29:00
Parie Lee Mathis	Bushes between us there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I had a time. I liked it what little I did. I got mad a lot of time because I couldn't get to go, because I would ask Mama could I go, and she said no because my two brothers could go, but I couldn't.	29:00
Stacey Scales	Oh, really?	29:19
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm. No.	29:19
Stacey Scales	And would the Black team ever play White people?	29:19
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they played them. Sure did. And sometimes they would beat them and sometimes these others would beat them. Mm-hmm.	29:29
Stacey Scales	Did that ever create any problems when the two races would play sports?	29:32
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, one or two times. They didn't do it too often. Because that boss man we had, he was pretty good. He would always quit and leave the game and didn't play with them, because he know it's going to bring up a fight.	29:46
Stacey Scales	And what would happen those times that that happened?	30:03
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, it wasn't over one or two times, maybe a little more than two. One or two. But they would walk off and leave the place. And they boss man would kind of—he would kind get in and tell them, "You can't play that-a-way when you're fighting." Well, couldn't when you're fighting. They got pretty good on that.	30:07
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	30:27
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	30:27
Stacey Scales	And did people in the stands fight?	30:27
Parie Lee Mathis	In the stands?	30:27
Stacey Scales	The people watching.	30:27
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh, no. Sometimes they would get to fighting now, them peachy peoples in the stands. Sometimes they would get to fighting. They would see where it's at and then all of them go over there. And see, when all of them go to a fight, that pulls the crowd from where they was at, you know? And that make the bosses come up then to see what's wrong. Then they'll come and see what's wrong, or how it happened and everything. Then he want them to quit that and play ball or go home, one. So they never would come over on our side, you know, like it's right side. They didn't want to come over. They wanted to beat all the time. So we left that game, got in the truck and left.	30:43
Stacey Scales	And when the Blacks would beat them, would they be angry?	31:32
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they'd be mad. Sure did. They got real angry about that. They didn't like it because you beat them. But you couldn't argue back at them. It's pitiful, but that's the way it was. You could not argue back at them.	31:37
Stacey Scales	So you couldn't say nothing to them.	31:49
Parie Lee Mathis	No. Mm-mm. You couldn't.	31:49
Stacey Scales	Would people put their money on the game?	31:49
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Fifty cents. Fifty cent. That's what my father put on the game. Now, I don't know what I know the others was putting up some with him. And sometime they have five dollars. He'd be done got five dollars draw down, because he beat. And the other man get five or something because he beat. And so they didn't—it wasn't much money put on it, but they put it up.	32:06
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	32:32
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Sure did.	32:37
Stacey Scales	And did they ever play on the Black folks land?	32:38
Parie Lee Mathis	Black folk didn't have but a little, so they didn't play on the Black folks' land. They had to play on the White.	32:42
Stacey Scales	Oh yes.	32:47
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	32:47
Stacey Scales	Did they have names for their teams?	32:47
Parie Lee Mathis	Well yeah, they had names for all of them, but I can't think of all of them names. DeRossi, that was one of them. And wait a minute now, let me see this other one. [indistinct 00:33:06] I can't think of them others, but it was some though, because they had DeRossi game and—	32:54
Stacey Scales	Were they named—	33:22
Parie Lee Mathis	Round Pond, that was another one. Yeah. And Lord have mercy, I can't think of the others.	33:22
Stacey Scales	Were they named after the boss man?	33:33
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, some of them was and some of them wasn't.	33:36
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	33:38
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Some of them was and some of them wasn't. Some of them were named after the school.	33:40
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	33:45
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, that was a White name, because he the one get them to school. I reckon he get it to them. He said he'd get it to them. So he might have did.	33:46
Stacey Scales	Did the Black team have the same equipment, the catching glove and things as the White team?	34:01
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. They sure did. But it's just like this, the White folks had the new ones and you had the old. See, when they got a new game in there to play, they give you the White folks balls and things and they buy them new ones.	34:05
Stacey Scales	So Blacks would have to use the used.	34:23
Parie Lee Mathis	That's right. That's right. Yep. There was some difference. Sure was.	34:26
Stacey Scales	Did it cost to go to that game?	34:38
Parie Lee Mathis	No, you had to walk. You had to walk. Now, some of these schools, you had to ride to go to them. It didn't cost you nothing. You had to ride the truck around. When you get there, get off of the truck, and when you get ready to go all of you'd get on the truck.	34:40
Stacey Scales	So when you got there, it was free?	34:57
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah.	35:00
Stacey Scales	What was the best game that you ever been to?	35:04
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh Lord, I don't know, because all of them was pretty tight then.	35:07
Stacey Scales	Yeah?	35:15
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. The best one I ever went to was—well, I really liked my game the best, DeRossi. The that's the one I liked it. But it didn't win all the time.	35:15
Stacey Scales	No?	35:26
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm.	35:27
Stacey Scales	Would a lot of people come out from the neighborhood?	35:31
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, it'd be a lot of folks at the ballgame. A lot of folks at church too. That's really—now, look at the world today, you don't see no peoples around the church and you don't see them. If you want to see them, you go to the ballgame. That's why you'll see them there. But then they had the ball field full and the church too. But now they don't care to go to church, look like.	35:35
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	36:02
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	36:02
Stacey Scales	Was church different back then. Would people get the spirit of things?	36:05
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they had the spirit. They sure did get the spirit, but they don't get it now. They had the spirit back then. Sure did.	36:10
Stacey Scales	Did they have revivals and baptisms?	36:23
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, sure did. And now they don't even go to revivals.	36:25
Stacey Scales	Where would they baptize people?	36:32
Parie Lee Mathis	In the lake.	36:34
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	36:35
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Well, I don't know. The White folk didn't hardly go in the lake, I don't think. They might've went in the house or somewhere.	36:35
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	36:41
Parie Lee Mathis	They didn't go in the mudhole, what we call it. But I enjoyed going in that water though. Mm-hmm.	36:44
Stacey Scales	And were there a lot of people?	36:53
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, be a lot of people. They be singing and praying. You'd get happy down there too.	36:59
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah?	37:03
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. It was nice.	37:04
Stacey Scales	So how did you feel after being—	37:11
Parie Lee Mathis	Baptized?	37:14
Stacey Scales	Yes, ma'am.	37:16
Parie Lee Mathis	Felt good to me. Sure did. Sure felt good. Mm-hmm.	37:17
Stacey Scales	And what other type of church activities did they have back then?	37:27
Parie Lee Mathis	Methodist Baptist Church was here, and on down little further was the Methodist Church.	37:32
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	37:38
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. And over here, the Church of God in Christ. It was three churches right there together, and they'd be full with all of them on Sunday. Sure did. Mm-hmm.	37:39
Stacey Scales	When your parents farmed, did they use signs to farm with?	37:54
Parie Lee Mathis	Signs?	37:58
Stacey Scales	Yes, ma'am. Or the Almanac?	37:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Not when they would farm.	38:03
Stacey Scales	No?	38:03
Parie Lee Mathis	No. If it come a good day for you to plant your cotton, you plant it that day. But now your gardens, that's what they use, the Almanac.	38:06
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	38:13
Parie Lee Mathis	Is in the gardens. Because you planted them on bug day. Man, when you get up some size you'll stay on that bug eating your crop up. They try to pick a good sign out the book and plant by it.	38:15
Stacey Scales	Would it work different back then? Did that work for them? The sign.	38:34
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. You don't plant it on bug day. Sure did. Mm-hmm.	38:45
Stacey Scales	Did the old folks back then talk about haints and things like that?	38:53
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Had the childrens all scared to go in—yeah. But I don't think it's nothing like that. I don't know why they had that. I don't think it's nothing like that, but they kept us scared with it.	39:01
Stacey Scales	What are some of the things they would tell you?	39:15
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, just talking about if you go out there, the haints will get you. You won't know what the haint look like. And they call theirself telling you how he look, and he's a shadow, he'd come up and—oh Lord, I don't know what all they did, said a haint done to you. But you was scared to go. Scared to go out, because them haints going to get you. But I thought it was too. I thought they would've got me too.	39:15
Stacey Scales	Did they tell the children that to keep them from outside?	39:41
Parie Lee Mathis	No, we could play outside. They won't come up in there along with you playing outside. But Lord, if you go down that road a little piece, they going to run you back. And that's what you're scared of going outside for. Mm-hmm.	39:48
Stacey Scales	Do you remember any of those stories that they would tell you?	40:06
Parie Lee Mathis	No, I can't hardly remember none of the stories that they told me. My daddy told us one. It was good too. But I couldn't remember. That's my bus driver, right, John?	40:11
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	40:24
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	40:36
Stacey Scales	So you don't remember those stories?	40:44
Parie Lee Mathis	No, it just was too much.	40:44
Stacey Scales	People would talk about the cemetery.	40:44
Parie Lee Mathis	Ooh, my daddy. He'll scare you with the cemetery. He bringing her.	40:44
Stacey Scales	And did he say that's where the haints used to be?	40:53
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. If you go there, they're going to eat you up. Boy, you was scared to go too.	40:55
Stacey Scales	Yeah?	41:05
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	41:05
Stacey Scales	Did they have an all Black cemetery?	41:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. There's no White folks out there. Nothing but Black people.	41:08
Stacey Scales	What was the name of that place?	41:14
Parie Lee Mathis	Round Pond Cemetery.	41:15
Stacey Scales	Grandpa Cemetery?	41:16
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Or DeRossi Cemetery.	41:18
Stacey Scales	And that's where most Blacks used that one there?	41:25
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Round Pond here, over yonder, Madison Cemetery too.	41:27
Stacey Scales	And is it the same?	41:35
Parie Lee Mathis	They're the same thing, but you had different names for them, because you, your boss name might have that [indistinct 00:41:49], and them over there. And then my boss may bury him where his [indistinct 00:41:56]. You know? Negro didn't have nothing [laughs].	41:39
Stacey Scales	Is it the same way now?	42:01
Parie Lee Mathis	No.	42:02
Stacey Scales	Oh.	42:04
Parie Lee Mathis	It just loose out there. You go out there and buy it now. You didn't buy it then. Mm-mm. You didn't buy it.	42:04
Stacey Scales	When you went to town, did they have rules that the Black folks had to follow?	42:11
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, the way when I was coming up, the way they was doing it is this sign what they had where you had to stay on it. The Black folks had to stay on this side and the Whiters on that side. Yeah. Couldn't run all over there where the White folks was at.	42:18
Stacey Scales	Did they have lynchings back then?	42:46
Parie Lee Mathis	What?	42:48
Stacey Scales	Where they would hang Black people.	42:49
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they had. Sure did. But they don't do as much of that now as they used to. I don't know why, but they don't.	42:52
Stacey Scales	How did they used to?	43:01
Parie Lee Mathis	Anybody I said do bad enough, that's the way it looked like to me was, they would hang them. Tie something on your head so you couldn't see. And my Mama didn't let us go to nothing like that. We couldn't go see the folks hung. And I didn't want to see them hang by their neck. Mm-mm.	43:05
Stacey Scales	But that would happen when you were little?	43:27
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Sure would. Yes, Lord.	43:28
Stacey Scales	What would you hear about that?	43:37
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, that's what I would hear they done. Them folks go down there to see. You could go see it if you wanted to.	43:40
Stacey Scales	Like an entertainment?	43:47
Parie Lee Mathis	It'd be like a church, I reckon. A crowd of Negroes over there and a crowd over here. They all looking at it. And it's a bell would ring. When you hit it, they supposed to pull that rope. And then you pull it, it's going to choke him, and then down he come, dead. Man, I just didn't like that. But you know what, nothing you could do.	43:50
Stacey Scales	Was it mostly Blacks then?	44:16
Parie Lee Mathis	That's all I seen, but they had some White. They broke their necks too.	44:18
Stacey Scales	And how would you know that it was going to happen? Would they put out—	44:28
Parie Lee Mathis	They'd tell you.	44:28
Stacey Scales	They'd tell the town people?	44:28
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they'll tell you. Sure would. Mm-hmm.	44:29
Stacey Scales	Did your brothers ever go?	44:38
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they went to the meeting. I didn't have but two brothers. They went and saw. That's when they were so scared. Because if they say you done it or whatever you did, you did it. You did it. Let them tell it, you did. You the one did it. Sometimes these White folks did it. Well, we had it hard, but we came on up.	44:41
Stacey Scales	Did your brothers ever describe to you what they saw?	45:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Just like I said, saw the head with that thing over it so you couldn't see the face and they couldn't see you. But you just seeing them up there with that rope round their neck and hooked up somewhere up there. Huh?	45:11
Stacey Scales	Would the Black folks do something, pray, or do something before that?	45:28
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, but it don't help. It might help somewhere down the road. I don't know where. But yeah, they'd do it. Sure would.	45:33
Stacey Scales	When those things would happen, would people get mad and leave?	45:48
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, you'd get mad, but when you leave, it ain't nothing. You don't [indistinct 00:45:56] like that, because the White peoples, they going to do what they want anyway. Mm-hmm.	45:50
Stacey Scales	Did people ever pack up their things and just say they wasn't going to come back?	46:11
Parie Lee Mathis	You talking about in the house or they didn't care.	46:15
Stacey Scales	The Blacks there, did they ever just pack up and try to get away from those?	46:17
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, you know, just like you live here, well it's about ten miles from here where they hang at, but you got to be there if you want your body. You want the body.	46:25
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	46:36
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Carried and buried.	46:36
Stacey Scales	Did you know any of the people that got hung back then?	46:45
Parie Lee Mathis	I know two or three of them, but I can't think of their names now for nothing.	46:50
Stacey Scales	What is it that they said that they did?	46:55
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, just like they did something or other. A White person and a Negro did something, but they going take the White man name. He didn't do it. And the Negro the one did. And see, the Negro don't know nothing about it, but they got to pay for it that way. Mm-hmm.	46:59
Stacey Scales	And they would just use him to get out of it.	47:21
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Sure did.	47:24
Stacey Scales	Were there ever any people who said, "I'm not going to put out with this, and—"	47:31

Stacey Scales	You didn't [indistinct 00:00:02] any of that type of thing?	0:01
Parie Lee Mathis	Huh?	0:04
Stacey Scales	You said it could have been?	0:06
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, it could have been, and I just didn't know nothing about it, you know? Because it's a lots went along I didn't know nothing about.	0:08
Stacey Scales	Now, were you far from Brinkley when you were—	0:17
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	0:20
Stacey Scales	Is that by Brinkley?	0:20
Parie Lee Mathis	It was here in Arkansas, round [indistinct 00:00:31] here. Kind of back here this here place up here used to be terrible.	0:26
Stacey Scales	Yeah?	0:36
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, sure did.	0:37
Stacey Scales	Why do you say that?	0:39
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, it wasn't the only one, but I just talking about how close we was to it.	0:41
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah.	0:46
Parie Lee Mathis	All of them was awful.	0:48
Stacey Scales	Could you come downtown here?	0:50
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh, yeah, because our side was on this side and the White folks was over there.	0:53
Stacey Scales	Oh, okay.	0:54
Parie Lee Mathis	If you go over there and get beat up over there, ain't nothing you going get done because you ain't got no business over there.	0:59
Stacey Scales	Did White men like Black women back then?	1:07
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. They could court, the White women, but you better not say nothing to they color if you a Black man.	1:12
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah. Did that happen when you were coming along?	1:20
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, they said. I didn't know nothing about none of it, you know? That's what they were saying. Say "He like so-and-so, so-and-so," and yeah, we can't even look at they color. Yeah, sure did.	1:24
Stacey Scales	They would be able to have their way?	1:33
Parie Lee Mathis	What, with the women?	1:39
Stacey Scales	Yes, ma'am.	1:41
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. If they fool with them, they'd go to that woman. They would, at least our side would go to that woman and give her a good talk, and they didn't go to the man if they find out he courted one. They'd beat him down to the ground right there, right there. Oh, we suffered through a lots going through that part. It was something.	1:47
Stacey Scales	How'd you make it through those tough times like that?	2:10
Parie Lee Mathis	I don't know. We just made it, I guess. I sure don't know.	2:14
Stacey Scales	Mrs. Woods was telling me that Black women couldn't wear shorts.	2:25
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh, not then.	2:28
Stacey Scales	No?	2:30
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm.	2:31
Stacey Scales	Why?	2:36
Parie Lee Mathis	I don't know. It looked like it was out of, I don't know, out of something for women, but I didn't much blame them since I see into it now.	2:39
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah?	2:45
Parie Lee Mathis	Uh-huh. How come they didn't allow them to wear them? But they allowed the Whites to do anything they wanted to do. I guess they didn't want them showing the White folks your leg. I don't know [laughs] what they wore them for.	2:46
Stacey Scales	Was there a NAACP when you were coming along?	2:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I didn't go.	2:59
Stacey Scales	Oh, no?	2:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm. No, I sure didn't.	2:59
Stacey Scales	Did you vote? Do you remember your first time voting?	2:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, I was married the first time I voted.	3:25
Stacey Scales	You was married?	3:27
Parie Lee Mathis	Sure was.	3:27
Stacey Scales	Hmm. Did it create problems? Did they try to get you not to vote?	3:34
Parie Lee Mathis	No. They always tried to get you to vote, and they going to tell you who to vote for.	3:37
Stacey Scales	You mean them? Did the White folks ever try to create problems for you when you tried to vote?	3:45
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, our boss man we had, well, he was White, too, but he always took us to the voting poll and told us who to vote for when you go in there.	3:53
Stacey Scales	Hmm.	4:03
Parie Lee Mathis	We was just like little children's. We obey the parents, since it was the way it was to me then.	4:07
Stacey Scales	How'd you feel about that when he would tell you who to vote for?	4:13
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, I felt all right at the time, but since I got up big enough to know about it, I don't feel don't too good about it, you know?	4:17
Stacey Scales	Right.	4:25
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, because I liked to ride on that truck.	4:27
Stacey Scales	Yeah?	4:31
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Sure would. He just making ride on that truck of his just to go where they was, you know?	4:31
Stacey Scales	Mm-hmm. [indistinct 00:04:44].	4:40
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah.	4:40
Stacey Scales	So you just liked to ride?	4:40
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, I liked it to ride.	4:40
Stacey Scales	Okay. When did you realize that he was mistreating you, the boss man?	4:57
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, I heard my mama and daddy talking about it.	5:04
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah?	5:08
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	5:08
Stacey Scales	What would they say?	5:09
Parie Lee Mathis	Said "That old man, he just want them all, all the Negros for theyself." And if you did wrong, he going to know it anyway. He gets it anyhow. I guess them folk what be inside tells him, you know?	5:12
Stacey Scales	Oh. So he know the people that—	5:26
Parie Lee Mathis	Going vote and who he going to vote for, his folks, you know?	5:29
Stacey Scales	Right. If the people on his land got into trouble, would he help them get out of it?	5:34
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. That's the only way you get out was he helped, what to get out.	5:43
Stacey Scales	Were there any instances where people had gotten into trouble in your place and he got them out?	5:52
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, a lot of them got in jail for drinking whiskey, but he'd go up there and get them out, charge them what they want to, what you want charge get them out.	6:00
Stacey Scales	Did he punish those people?	6:11
Parie Lee Mathis	No, he didn't.	6:14
Stacey Scales	No?	6:15
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm. When he get them out, he tell them they better stay out of there now, but they didn't stop, though.	6:16
Stacey Scales	No?	6:22
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. No, he wasn't the one that punish. Them what can't get the folks out or don't try to get them out, they the one going be punished.	6:24
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah?	6:34
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	6:34
Stacey Scales	Did anybody work in the house area?	6:39
Parie Lee Mathis	In the White folks' house?	6:43
Stacey Scales	Yes, ma'am.	6:44
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, it was a woman there all the time working in their house.	6:44
Stacey Scales	Was she Black?	6:45
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. She sure was, sure was.	6:45
Stacey Scales	What type of things would she have to do?	6:50
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, like cleaning up a house.	6:50
Stacey Scales	Oh [indistinct 00:07:01].	6:50
Parie Lee Mathis	All day. You cook breakfast and set the table. Then you go make up the beds and sweep up and do what you got to do. Then you start their dinner. Well, when dinner get on, you set the table again and they eat. You clean all them dishes up then, just like that. But when you do that, you don't get nothing but a dollar and a half a day.	7:03
Stacey Scales	Man. Were there people that worked in homes after you got off the place, like White folks homes, domestic?	7:26
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Shoot, yeah. They wasn't doing nothing but switching look like from house to house. Sure did.	7:35
Stacey Scales	Did you ever have to do that type of work?	7:39
Parie Lee Mathis	No, I didn't.	7:39
Stacey Scales	No?	7:39
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm.	7:48
Stacey Scales	Where did you work when you left the place?	7:49
Parie Lee Mathis	I worked in the field.	7:51
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah?	7:53
Parie Lee Mathis	Sure did.	7:54
Stacey Scales	That's the type of work you did all your life?	7:56
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Sure is. Sure is.	7:59
Stacey Scales	Did things ever change for the better when you were working?	8:05
Parie Lee Mathis	Not when I was working. Well, yeah, you got money, more money. You got five dollars for chopping cotton, six or seven, whatever.	8:10
Stacey Scales	Is that a date?	8:24
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, a date.	8:24
Stacey Scales	When did you stop working on it?	8:27
Parie Lee Mathis	Stop working?	8:29
Stacey Scales	Yes, ma'am.	8:30
Parie Lee Mathis	Let me see when did I stop. It ain't been too long, though.	8:31
Stacey Scales	No?	8:37
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm. I'm trying to see when did they stop chopping cotton and picking cotton, because we made crops every year. I just remember now, but that's what I was doing, making crops.	8:40
Stacey Scales	Making crops?	8:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm.	8:59
Stacey Scales	And you would make those crops, did you have to share those crops with anyone?	9:07
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, me and my husband, like that, but that was together. But that crop sharing, supposed to went half with the man which we was working for.	9:14
Stacey Scales	Was your husband a farmer, too?	9:23
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. All of us was farming.	9:23
Stacey Scales	Hmm. Did he ever have any run-ins with the local Whites?	9:38
Parie Lee Mathis	With the White folks?	9:43
Stacey Scales	Yes.	9:43
Parie Lee Mathis	No, my father never did run in with them.	9:44
Stacey Scales	Your husband.	9:47
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, my husband didn't either.	9:49
Stacey Scales	No?	9:51
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm. They tried to look like try. That's why I'm saying try because I don't know about all of these doing and going on, but they look like they tried to be kind of reasonable with him because my father, when he did, it was on the White folks' place. Well, my daddy was through farming for the White folks. He was farming—well, we farmed for ourself then, but it was the White man you had to farm with anyhow. So he had the same chance the other did just farming out there.	9:51
Stacey Scales	Hmm.	10:39
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, sure did.	10:39
Stacey Scales	Did a lot of Blacks have land back then?	10:44
Parie Lee Mathis	No. No, it wasn't but a very few had land, but they had just a little better show than the rest of them did, you know?	10:47
Stacey Scales	When people came back from up north when they would leave, did people look at them different?	10:56
Parie Lee Mathis	Talking about the choppers or the pickers?	11:10
Stacey Scales	Sometimes when people would move up to the north, would people look at them different when they came back?	11:12
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they look at them different. It looked like they might have thought they was something or something, I don't know.	11:19
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah?	11:28
Parie Lee Mathis	But yeah, they looked at them different.	11:30
Stacey Scales	Hmm.	11:31
Parie Lee Mathis	I used to hear my daddy saying that old so and so, he think he's something now. He done want up there and worked two, three days and got a little money, and he's coming down here to show it in his pocket.	11:34
Stacey Scales	So they would kind of look like they had some money?	11:49
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. Sure did.	11:49
Stacey Scales	Would they come back and visit often?	11:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. That's why—no, once a year. That's how I know that they would care because you come back and visit.	12:00
Stacey Scales	Did anybody in your family go up there?	12:14
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, I had an uncle. I had an uncle had to put up a year and a cousin had to put up a year, but now they didn't—he didn't suppose to did nothing to break his neck, but he went, you know?	12:17
Stacey Scales	Would they send back money?	12:35
Parie Lee Mathis	Send back money?	12:38
Stacey Scales	In the mail? Would they send money to the family?	12:39
Parie Lee Mathis	How they going to get it? Talking about the ones in the pen?	12:45
Stacey Scales	The ones in the north.	12:47
Parie Lee Mathis	Oh, no, they ain't sent back none to the family. No.	12:49
Stacey Scales	Hmm. And those times back then, what do you think is really important for people, young people, to know about those times that you had back then in the 30s, 40s, and 50s?	12:57
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, I think they ought know all of this here we were knowing; to my idea they should. Yeah. And if they go and get into it, they'll know where they going, you know?	13:17
Stacey Scales	Right.	13:36
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, if it was my wants, that's what I would want all of my children to know, how they come up back then.	13:39
Stacey Scales	How was your family able to be strong during those rough times back then?	13:51
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, we would always picking cotton and chopping cotton. I guess that's where they got it from. Then hauling wood. See, I had a lot of kids. I had thirteen children; haul wood and do all of that kind of stuff.	13:57
Stacey Scales	With your children, and when your children wanted to go to places that were for all Whites?	14:19
Parie Lee Mathis	No, Negro.	14:30
Stacey Scales	How would you explain that to them?	14:35
Parie Lee Mathis	Talking about now?	14:36
Stacey Scales	When it was separated, like with the Colored and the White, different things like [indistinct 00:14:41].	14:39
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, they knowed when it was wrong. You wasn't over there. You wasn't mixed up with them when they come here, when they big enough to see it wasn't.	14:41
Stacey Scales	What would you tell your children?	15:00
Parie Lee Mathis	About who? The [indistinct 00:15:04] peoples?	15:03
Stacey Scales	Yeah, how to get along.	15:05
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, you don't teach them to get along with the White folks. Stay on your side and they'll stay on theirs.	15:07
Stacey Scales	And that's what you had to tell them?	15:15
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Yeah.	15:16
Stacey Scales	Were the schools they went to segregated and Black?	15:22
Parie Lee Mathis	Talking about my children or—	15:26
Stacey Scales	Yes, ma'am.	15:29
Parie Lee Mathis	Uh-uh. They went to school mixed with the Whites.	15:29
Stacey Scales	Hmm.	15:33
Parie Lee Mathis	They was changing up little then, you know? They sure did, but you could tell them, the White ones and the Black. Now, it was some White and Black going to school together. But them what didn't want dealing with no Negros, they'll pull them out, and you saw a little school over here, nothing but White.	15:34
Stacey Scales	Hmm.	15:56
Parie Lee Mathis	That's all. Nothing but White in there.	15:56
Stacey Scales	Did they have the Ku Klux Klan back then?	16:00
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, sure did. Yeah, they had Ku Klux Klan. Them there was the folk with the—oh, boy.	16:03
Stacey Scales	The White sheets and things?	16:17
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, and the neck—boy, they had a mess on that, the folk with the White sheet. Now, you would know them people but you won't know them then.	16:19
Stacey Scales	Oh, okay.	16:31
Parie Lee Mathis	But when they pulled them rags off, you will know them then, see. But they did dirty, I think. They sure did. I didn't like the way they did.	16:32
Stacey Scales	No?	16:45
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-mm.	16:46
Stacey Scales	Did you see them?	16:48
Parie Lee Mathis	No, nothing but the White rag. They could see you. You could see the little eyes through the piece, but you didn't know who it was.	16:49
Stacey Scales	And where did you see them with the White rags on?	16:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Walking up the road looking, walking up the road looking. That's where you see them at.	17:02
Stacey Scales	And this is in Widener?	17:11
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, Widener. Sure was.	17:13
Stacey Scales	What type of things were they doing?	17:17
Parie Lee Mathis	They wasn't bothering them. Our folks wasn't bothering them. They was trying to stay out the way. Yeah, trying to stay out the way.	17:24
Stacey Scales	Hmm. And when you stay out the way, what if there was somebody that got in their way? What would happen?	17:37
Parie Lee Mathis	I can't hardly tell a story, but my mama could. She could tell it, but you had to try to get away from there the best way you could because you can't fight them. You couldn't fight the children back then, not them White ones like you can now because you hit one now, you can hit him back, but then you couldn't.	17:47
Stacey Scales	Even the children?	18:10
Parie Lee Mathis	No. Nothing the parents know something about it. No.	18:11
Stacey Scales	So you had to even give respect to the little ones?	18:19
Parie Lee Mathis	Sure, that's right. Sure you had to give respect to them.	18:21
Stacey Scales	Would people call you by your first name when you were—	18:27
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, Parie Lee.	18:34
Stacey Scales	Did they do that to other Blacks, adults?	18:39
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah. They called my daddy by his name, my mama by her name, me, my brothers.	18:42
Stacey Scales	And how did that make you feel?	18:51
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, I felt all right. It didn't look like it bothered me.	18:55
Stacey Scales	Could you call them by their first name?	18:59
Parie Lee Mathis	Yeah, the little children.	19:02
Stacey Scales	Oh, okay.	19:02
Parie Lee Mathis	We had to say Mr., Ms. to the grown folks, you know?	19:07
Stacey Scales	Right. Is there anything else that you'd like to share, that you want to talk about, think is important about those times?	19:30
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, all of them was just about [indistinct 00:19:38], you know? And I didn't seem to like none of them that well, but I had to do it. That's what it was, and so it didn't really bother me none until it get the late in the evening when it's time to come home and cook. That's when I get hungry and ready to go. See, you had long hours to work then.	19:36
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah?	20:01
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Yeah.	20:01
Stacey Scales	Hmm. Well, how did you feel when things started to change?	20:14
Parie Lee Mathis	Things started to change?	20:20
Stacey Scales	Or did things start to change?	20:23
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, I felt all right, but I still—well, I wasn't picking cotton and chopping then. I had done quit and staying at home seeing after the kids. But just the way I felt, I felt all right about it myself because I was at home.	20:28
Stacey Scales	Okay. I really enjoyed talking to you.	20:45
Parie Lee Mathis	Well, thank you. It wasn't that much to me, but now it is because of—yeah, but this foot what I lost, that's what got me.	20:53
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah?	21:03
Parie Lee Mathis	Mm-hmm. Sitting up here today. Sure is. Yeah, can't walk. I hates that.	21:04
Stacey Scales	Well, I've learned a whole lot from you.	21:07
Parie Lee Mathis	You have?	21:22
Stacey Scales	Yes, ma'am.	21:23
Parie Lee Mathis	[Laughs] Mm-hmm.	21:25

Item Info

Title:

Parie Mathis interview recording, 1995 July 20

Date:

July 20, 1995

Creator:

Mathis, Parie Lee

Contributor:

Scales, Mausiki Stacey

Description:

Name: Parie Lee Mathis; Date of birth: 1929-12-17; Place of birth: Widener, AR; Occupation(s): agriculture; farmer; Residence: Forrest City, AR
Informant ID: 1081; Interviewed by: Stacey Scales.

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Location:

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-0312
6bd802bf-3f24-4112-a079-624a9755af21
behindtheveil
6f5f4b20-11f0-4ecd-9d01-cd757a06e30a
ark:/87924/r47d32g9z
6f5f4b20-11f0-4ecd-9d01-cd757a06e30a

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Parie Mathis interview recording, 1995 July 20

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1. Parie Mathis administrative file, 1995

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Parie Mathis interview recording, 1995 July 20

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