Margarette Murphy interview recording, 1995 June 12
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| Margarette Evans Murphy | My name is Dr. Margarette, M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T-T-E, Celestine, C-E-L-E-S-T-I-N-E, Murphy. And I retired from Chicago Board of Education June, 1993. And I also worked for Kennedy King College where I taught—well, in the high school, I taught Spanish and French and English. And then I taught for Kennedy King College on the campus of University of Chicago. I taught the English as a Second Language to Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Yugoslavians, Africans, Bulgarians, Romanians, Brazilians, et cetera, Koreans. | 0:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I relocated to Memphis because of the death of my aunt, Mrs. Eva Cartman-Martin. And she was very prominent as a hospital administrator of the Black hospital, which was founded by her husband, Dr. William Sylvester Martin, W.S. Martin. And the hospital's name was the Collins Chapel Hospital. After she left the hospital, they tried to operate it as a clinic, but I don't think the people had enough funds. So now it's operated under the auspices of the University of Tennessee. | 0:37 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I would come to Memphis. I was born in Chicago, but I would come to Memphis, oh, maybe five, six times per year. So as I recall about segregation, on the trains, the Blacks would be seated toward the end, at the back of the train. And some of the fountains had signs Colored and White. And in one of the dime stores downtown, five to ten cent stores, Kress's I believe, they only served Blacks just at the very corner, not the full length of the counter. And they served them in paper cups and served the Whites in glasses. | 1:12 |
| Stacey Scales | Did you go in there to get served? | 1:52 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, I don't think I went in to get served, but I observed that. And then the libraries were also segregated. The Black library was the Vance Avenue Library where the Blacks would get books. But then I think it was because of the efforts of Jesse H. Turner, who at that time was the president of the Tri-State Bank, the Black bank, and I think he also was director of the Memphis NAACP. Jesse H. Turner Sr. put in a suit against the library board. And the libraries were desegregated, I think in June, 1958. And now you can go to any of the libraries. | 1:53 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Also, there was a theater downtown that had the Blacks to climb just millions of stairs to get to the balcony, the highest balcony. And I recall having gone down there with some of my friends. Well these friends were mulatos, they could have passed for White. But we all went on upstairs in this loft at the Malco Theater, M-A-L-C-O. It's now called the Orpheum, O-R-P-H-E-U-M. So those are some of the things that I recall. | 2:37 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Now, my aunt's husband, Dr. W.S. Martin, set up medical practice in 1907, and he was a graduate of Walden University, and he attended Le Moyne previous to that, and then he received his MD from Meharry Medical College. He interned in New York City at the Bellevue Hospital. And he also studied at the Mayo Clinic, which was quite an accomplishment for a Black back there in the early 1900s. And he built the only Negro home stadium in the South, which bore his name, Martin Stadium. It's since been raised. It's on Prop Boulevard. It was near Neptune, took up a whole city block, but now it's being operated as a Mac truck establishment. | 3:07 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I also recall that when we'd visit my aunt's husband's farm in Mississippi, Lake Cormorant, Mississippi. Lake C-O-R-M-O-R-A-N-T, that it was reported that there was another wealthy family down there. I think Doc's people had a farm about, must have been about 463 acres. And my aunt's husband's grandfather was a White man, and it gave Doc a little help, but my aunt's husband worked as a Pullman porter and did odd jobs working for a White doctor here in Memphis until he got on foot. And that's how he first got started. | 3:50 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But anyway, coming back to the farm, I understand there was a wealthy Black family living in Lake Cormorant, Mississippi, and the White people had dared them to sit on the front porch. They could not sit on their own front porch. Said, "You just sit in the back and just stay in the house." And they had a Ford car, but they also had a Cadillac. So the Whites said they would blast them off the front porch or blast them anywhere they'd see them if they caught them riding in a Cadillac. So you couldn't ride in that Cadillac, you'd have to use that Ford while you're down here. | 4:31 |
| Stacey Scales | So it was just the Cadillac car? | 5:01 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Just the Cadillac car. But they could ride in that old rickety Ford. So one of my friends told me that segregation was quite painful, but it didn't bother me so much when I'd come down here because I was Chicago and I could escape it by just going back home. And then my family, my grandmother was so fair. Her White father had a plantation in Midnight, Mississippi. He was Scots-Irish, and he helped her. He even came and lived in Memphis in the house with them. But when the Whites right across the street found out that he was actually a White man, someone tried to burn the house down, but the dog woke them up. | 5:04 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But we had a pretty good relationship with the Whites in the neighborhood. Some of them were impoverished, and they would knock on the door and come over and say, "Miss Anna, may we use your telephone?" They knew my aunt was a nurse and her husband a doctor, so they kind of looked up to us. So we didn't have such a bad experience. And being Creoles, and then my mother and aunt were practically octoroons because their father was French, was a White man from Monroe, Louisiana. So it really wasn't so bad. But I understand that some of my friends were journeying through Arkansas. I think they come from Chicago and they wanted some watermelon. So they stopped in at this store and the man said, "No, niggers can't come in the front door. If you want watermelon, you go around to the back door." So it was demeaning in many instances. It certainly was. | 5:46 |
| Stacey Scales | Did you ever feel like a second class citizen? | 6:35 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No, I never did feel like a second class citizen because I guess I had too much grit in my craw, and I never did feel that way. I remember once I was walking, going over to this penny store there on Pennsylvania Avenue, I'd go over every afternoon and get a pint of ice cream and get some things for my grandmother. And a little White boy was sitting on the porch and he wasn't menacing. He said, "Hello there, a little chocolate drop." So I just laughed and said hello and went right on. | 6:37 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So it was sort of a—well, it was just sort of a friendly atmosphere prevailed. Because where we lived, not in this house, but 100 West DeSota, the neighborhood was mixed. Some of the Negroes lived back this way, but all across the street and down in that next block were all Whites. And so they all got along pretty well. The children played together. They just had different schools. So I really don't know too much bad about it, but they had separate schools, but yet the Whites and Blacks played together. So that was sort of a surprise. | 7:02 |
| Stacey Scales | So what type of things would you do for entertainment? | 7:41 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, for entertainment, I would have some of my girlfriends come over and spend the day. Now, there was a lovely girl by the name of Kelly Daniels who was very fair. You couldn't tell her from White. She had long blonde hair. And her mother lived somewhere off of Dunlap, and I think they owned a little property and so forth. She and another girl, Thelma Whitaker, whose stepfather, I think, no, was it her father? I don't know. Her father taught at Le Moyne College, taught music, and she was very fair. Then there was another girl, I can't think of her name right now, but they'd come over and they'd spend the day with me. And my grandmother would cook the best spaghetti. | 7:42 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She didn't prepare spaghetti the way people do it now, she put hers in the oven with a lot of chili powder. And we had frozen homemade ice cream. My grandmother was a good cook, good Creole cook. And so we'd go back and forth to one another's homes. And that's how we enjoyed ourselves. And I never did go to any dances with any boys because my grandmother considered dating as common. And I remember when I was 12 years old, Benjamin Hook's wife, Francis Dancey, her father was in the Post Office, Ben Hook, who was head of the NAACP, had a backyard party with Japanese and Chinese lanterns in the backyard. And I wanted to go so badly, but my grandmother said, "Oh, you see, it's raining. Even God doesn't want you to go out. And so the only way you'll go is if Doc takes you or if your auntie comes home from the hospital to take you." | 8:19 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So I got a chance to go. And Francis's mother had a lot of beautiful gardenias in the backyard and she had two or three gardenias in a corsage as a gift for every girl who attended the party. So we had these nice times. Black people enjoyed themselves in the home. They had beautiful homes and they really knew how to entertain. So really some of them didn't feel it so much, but I imagine people who didn't have any money or if in some way they just felt downtrodden from the very beginning might have considered themselves as a second class citizen. But I never did feel out of place because I wasn't too bad looking at the time. And I'm 68 years old now. I'm a little fat. So I got along very well. | 9:10 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I realized there were two societies, but there's almost two societies now. Everything is so divisive. But if you can accept yourself, then you can accept anybody else. That's the way I feel about it. My daughter might want to say something. [indistinct 00:10:11], but they allowed her in the store. That's where you buy hats. But they allowed her because her hair was pretty and she didn't have a lot of grease in her hair. | 9:55 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Then I understand some of the stores wouldn't wait on you to buy shoes. But I bought shoes here in Memphis and I never had any trouble like that. I never had any trouble like that. I'd go in and they would wait on me. And then another lady said she would feel so humiliated. She's a very fair Negro in color. And she said she'd go someplace and they'd make her wait a long time. They'd wait on the Whites before they'd wait on her. But I never had that experience. When I'd go downtown, I could generally get whatever I wanted here. But I imagine some of the other Negroes were discriminated against. They probably felt as second class citizens and they just hover in the background. But I never did do that. | 10:19 |
| Stacey Scales | Were there other businesses owned by Blacks that wouldn't treat people like that? | 10:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Owned by Blacks? Well, now at the ballpark. Dr. W.S. Martin owned the concessions there. And even during the Depression, I remember Doc made about $25,000 one month selling Falstaff beer and Goldcrest-51 beer and barbecue. He had a barbecue pit there. But now, right at the end of his ballpark, there was a Black barbecue stand called Uncle Joe's Barbecue. And they had the best barbecue. And he had separate entrances, said White entrance and Black entrance, and the White people really patronized him. And then at the ballpark, they had separate sections, my uncle's ballpark, the Martin Stadium. The Whites would just come out there in droves. And they enjoyed seeing these Black fellas play baseball. In fact, they were better than some of the big leagues. And they'd buy the barbecue and mingle all in the crowds. But they sat in separate sections. | 11:03 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And then the ballpark, they didn't have television way back then, or it was just starting out and people would leave church. Some of the church ministers would let that congregation out about 10 o'clock so they could come over to the ballpark about 11:00 or 12:00. And they didn't come so casual. They were really dressed to the brinks. They had on their silks and satins and they just looked beautiful, these beautiful Black people. And the Whites did too. They considered it quite an outing. | 12:00 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | The Memphis Red Sox really had quite a following. They'd go all down in Mississippi, they'd go down in Texas, Oklahoma, just go all around, Kansas City. And every year they'd play that big classic game in Chicago called the East West Classic. And people would just come from all over to it. So some businesses did flourish like the funeral homes and the baseball parks and Black leagues. That was a form of entertainment for Black people since they didn't have all this television, all these other outlets. And I was just considering and recollecting this morning, I said, as far as my life is concerned, the '40s and '50s were about the happiest time in my life. | 12:30 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Can I just add just one other thing? And I do appreciate if you'd write this down. To be clear, because a lot of people have a misconception about it. The Martin brothers of course as a whole were very famous and very prominent. But the thing about it is you see W.S. Martin, auntie's husband was the patriarch family. He was the one, in other words, that paved the way for them. And this is what I want you to write down. It was his money that paid for Martin Stadium. Not the other brothers, his. He paid for it, paid for the renovation of it, and he owned the team. The other brothers, BB was sort of involved in the public relations, but it was all W.S's money behind it. Make sure you put that down. I don't want to see that wrong. Because I've seen that too many times. I believe in the truth. What do they say? The truth shall set you free. It needs to come on out. And I assume that's why you're doing this because you want the truth, right? | 13:11 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I imagine— | 14:01 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Sorry, I'm overpowering. | 14:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I imagine some people are very bitter about segregation, but I just remember it as something that was passed over. But it was very demeaning and very painful for some people. But I didn't feel so much pain because we had a car, we could go wherever we wanted to go in the car. And then we had the outlet of entertaining in the home and things of that sort. So we really didn't feel it. We knew there were two different societies, but it just didn't touch us so much. And then my aunt and grandmother was so fair in color that anywhere they'd go they could pass, but they never did try to pass. | 14:03 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yes, I noticed a mention in the article where it said—some of your people said that they had had relatives that passed. Well, that wasn't the case. And as a matter of fact, I have a story about my auntie that she had said when she was at a nursing—oh, and I want to tell you something else about [indistinct 00:14:49]. Anyway. When she was up getting the rest of her nursing stuff on— | 14:35 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | At Cook County Hospital. | 14:55 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Cook County. | 14:56 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It was in 1933 or '34. | 14:57 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She could have stayed in the dormitory up there and they couldn't understand why she went and she told them what she was. In other words, if she hadn't told them what she was she could have stayed in the dormitories. They didn't allow Negroes to stay in the dormitories with the other White girls. Now, she could have passed very easily. | 15:00 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | This was in 1933 and 1934. | 15:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And then this is something else I want you to write down. This is very important. My auntie, you got that down, Mrs. Eva Cartman-Martin, E-V-A Cartman, C-A-R-T-M-A-N. It's one word Martin, M-A-R-T-I-N. She was the first female hospital administrator in this city. I'm talking about Black or White. Do you understand what I'm saying? | 15:16 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | First one. | 15:41 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She worked with her husband side by side. | 15:42 |
| Stacey Scales | What's her name? | 15:44 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Her name is Mrs. Eva Cartman-Martin. That was my auntie. She passed last July. She was 90. | 15:44 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | July 8th. | 15:49 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | See, her husband, W.S. Martin, was 30 years older than she was. Boy, that shocks you. That's a real May-December romance, isn't it? He was eight years older, in fact, than her husband. I mean her mother was eight years older than her husband. | 15:50 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Than auntie's husband. | 16:02 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Now the thing about it is she worked side by side with her husband. And in other words, she was a woman of the '90s in the '30s and '40s. You know this stuff about how they're trying to do it now. They think, oh, they've got it all. They're the superwoman. They got the [indistinct 00:16:18], the family, the babies, the kids, the work. She did it all in the '30s and '40s. She was doing it back then when they were in the kitchen barefoot. See what I mean? She could do anything that—matter of fact, she was completely involved in every facet of his life. She was bookkeeper for the Red Sox. She was administrator of that hospital. She taught nursing. They had an old Collins Chapel Connectional Hospital before the new one was built. She taught nursing. Her husband was the head physician just over everything. He had a lot of houses, just loads of rent houses, just loads of them. | 16:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Had 72 pieces of property. | 16:57 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She would go with him. Now, get ready for a shock, to collect the rents. Oh, you're thinking, oh, nobody would do that. Yeah they would. They wouldn't do it now. | 16:59 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She went with him on house calls, visit patients. | 17:09 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Went on house calls. So in other words, she was involved with him on the medical front as far as his real estate property was concerned, in his entertainment part, which was the Red Sox. So in other words, I guess that's why they're married. They were very similar people. And this man, let me try to tell you. Because you might be getting a picture and I know probably what you're thinking. You're probably getting a picture of somebody well off that maybe this did not touch him. But let me tell you where his roots came from. | 17:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | This is a true American success story in [indistinct 00:17:47] American life. He was a self-made man. I don't think he got any help from his parents. Parents had that farm, but W.S. did it himself. And this is the main point. He was able to do this in the midst of all these other obstacles, which was segregation. Yet he was able to overcome that. Not only overcome, but use it to his advantage. Now that's smart. And that's probably what the White people didn't want. Not only was he smart but he was able to use it to his advantage. | 17:42 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And W.S.— | 18:23 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's what the White people do, isn't it? | 18:23 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And then W.S. was very smart too. He never bought a new car because he knew that Whites would be jealous of so much ostentation. He bought a used car all the time. A used Cadillac, a used Lincoln. | 18:27 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And listen, this is another good point because this is kind of an unusual thing. I gather this is probably the first time you've ever come in contact with a family like this, right? That's what I figured. So this kind of give you a different slant or an additional slant. The point is this, this was not an ostentatious man. Be blunt with you. He had the wealth to do whatever he wanted, live however he wanted. But he didn't do it. What did he do? | 18:39 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Everything and lowkey. | 19:07 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No, he turned it back to the community. Now that's different. That is different. He did not live—as a matter of fact, he lived at that hospital most of the time. This man would be what you call today, a workaholic. He did not believe in vacations even for himself. He did everything for the patients. Matter of fact, when they didn't have food enough for the patients at the hospital, he took food that was on his farm and fed those patients himself. | 19:09 |
| Stacey Scales | How did he become the man that he was? | 19:37 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I don't know. His grandfather was a White man, but he didn't give him all that support. He worked as a Pullman porter and did odd jobs for White doctor here in Memphis. Was it Dr. Porter? I forget what that name— | 19:41 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I think so. | 19:52 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Dr. Porter. And he just saved his money and he was sort of, well, I won't say he was a miser, but he wouldn't spend too much money. But he never bought a new car, he said, because the Whites would object to that. And he always had a used car, used Cadillac or used Lincoln. | 19:54 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I can find out two things I could probably say if you look at it, which probably all great people have. I guess you would say he had vision and drive. | 20:10 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | He was highly motivated. | 20:22 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And it's usually something like that. See, this is the picture. This is what I want you to know. You can keep this. This is very good. This is W.S. Martin. That's my auntie's husband. This is the only picture that I know of that exists of the South Memphis drugstore. And let me tell you something else— | 20:25 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Doc owned that. | 20:38 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He owned it. He owned everything. | 20:39 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But his brother operated it. | 20:42 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | His brother operated it, but he owned it. | 20:43 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | He owned the building. | 20:44 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He owned a stadium [indistinct 00:20:47]. | 20:45 |
| Stacey Scales | Did you ever work for him? | 20:46 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh yes. I wanted to tell you. At the ballpark there on Crump Boulevard, I used to sell tickets for the Red Sox games, and then my grandma Anna would sit there behind the counter where the concessions were where they had Nehi, N-E-H-I, grape soda and cherry soda and strawberry soda, Coca-Colas and all that. And the beer. She would put the money in the cash register. And then my aunt would check up in the office afterwards, after the games to distribute the money to the owners of the teams. So I can recall selling tickets there at the baseball park. | 20:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | See— | 21:20 |
| Stacey Scales | Was it self-segregated by— | 21:20 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, it was segregated. The White patrons came out in droves and they had a section for the Whites and the rest of it for the Blacks. And they got along beautifully. | 21:23 |
| Stacey Scales | So it was even a Black-owned business. | 21:32 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Black-owned business. The Whites patronized it. And they ate barbecue like barbecue was going out of style. What I liked about— | 21:32 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | What you want to know is maybe when he renovated the stadium, did he consciously make the effort to deliberately segregate it? Is that what you mean? | 21:40 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. | 21:47 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No, segregation was in vogue at that time. So they just came on over there. But now one thing about that barbecue, a lot of times in Chicago and other places you can buy barbecue ribs. But Doc had pork shoulder sandwiches that we just have just like a pork roast barbecue. They were the best sandwiches. I haven't had any like that since that park closed. | 21:48 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I probably haven't—probably what's running through your mind is if he hadn't done that, what would he have done? I think you can answer that. | 22:09 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They wouldn't have supported it. | 22:16 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | They would've segregated themselves. You know how they're always talking about in the paper, at least they have [indistinct 00:22:22]. Still, it's just how you get a group of Black and White people together in a social situation. They will tend to go off among themselves in their own group. Isn't that true? | 22:17 |
| Stacey Scales | I think so. | 22:30 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, they segregate themselves. | 22:31 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I think that's what they would've done. I think if you had not had an actual physical thing, a section that said that, my guess is they would've done that anyway. | 22:33 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They perhaps would've. | 22:41 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | They would have gone off and congregated among themselves and then the Blacks would've done the same thing. I'm pretty sure that's what they would have done. | 22:42 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Even our lawyer who's a White man said that his father used to take him out to the park, to Martin Stadium to see the Black baseball teams and they [indistinct 00:22:57]. | 22:48 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | See, this is the point here that I want you to get. This is the whole point. Because I personally feel that the Blacks that have attained well today don't do this. And that's what the Black community is complaining about, how they get this wealth and then they don't do anything back. They don't turn it back for community. But this is what W.S. Martin did, the wealth he got, he used to help the community. | 22:56 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Let me give this one. | 23:23 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No, just let me finish this. Obviously he did. The point is this. Just by process of elimination, if he didn't put it on himself, if he didn't have an ostentatious lifestyle, then you ask yourself what did he do with it? You have to do something with it, isn't that right? | 23:24 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Mm-hmm. | 23:38 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | So he turned it into with the priorities to help these people, turned it into the stadium as far as entertainment. Okay, what this is, this is a downtown, this is not our Memphis magazine I told you about. This is a local publication called the Downtown Magazine. Also, this is not the Memphis magazine that I'm telling you about. This is a local thing, which is a free publication that's published monthly and they put it in a couple of grocery stores. Anyway, this was from— | 23:38 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Turn to the one— | 24:03 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I've got it, I've got it. This is from the November issue. And what this basically is, this is an interview with a pharmacist who worked at the South Memphis drugstore named Dr. George Irving. And he relates in here, this is an interview question/answer by this man. And matter of fact, I called him up a couple of months ago. Greg Gordon, he does a piece, this Beale Street Can Talk every month where he interviews various people that were on Beale Street. Now this drugstore was on Florida, but a lot of—now for instance, B.B Martin, his brother, had a dental office that was on Beale Street. What it is, he relates in here how the Martins helped him. And it has stuff in here about W.S. Martin. So I thought you might want—and this is W.S. Martin right here over the end. | 24:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And let me say this, Linda. Not only did Doc supply food from his farm for the hospital, but my aunt and doctor would go over to Mississippi and to Arkansas. And my aunt would sing on a program. And the people, if they didn't have money to contribute to the Collins Chapel Hospital, they would give sheets and pillowcases and things like that and produce, corn and whatever they could give. Preserves and jellies and jams to the hospital. Wasn't that lovely? | 24:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | So you see, that's what I'm trying to tell you. So this is one family where it didn't go into—and that's the first thing, isn't that the first thing they think of? Gosh, you're going to get wealth. That's the first thing on their mind is ostentatious lifestyle. Otherwise why have the wealth? Isn't that right? Isn't that the way most people think? | 25:13 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Mm-hmm. | 25:28 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | But that's not the way he thought. Because that I guess was not the top priority in his life. Depends on what the priority in your life is. And for him, that's not what it was. | 25:28 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So he was satisfied. I don't say he was satisfied, but segregation didn't bother him because he was prospering. He was making money, and not so much in the hospital, but with his baseball team and the concessions there and so forth during segregation. | 25:37 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | But the point is— | 25:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And also during segregation, he paid Dan Bankhead, who later went to the Brooklyn Dodgers, paid him between 750 and a 1000 dollars a month. And that was during segregation. Now that was good money even now to get a 1000 dollars a month or something. That's what he was paying this pitcher. | 25:50 |
| Stacey Scales | So did your whole family benefit from — | 26:09 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | From him? | 26:13 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. | 26:14 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | To a certain extent. My aunt did. | 26:14 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Oh my aunt. Well let put this back. You know how they say, "Behind every great man is a great woman?" | 26:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So my aunt was a great woman. | 26:24 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's what she was. In other words, he put her on the map. She was—well let's see how to put it. What's the saying? How do you get it the old way? You marry money. That's what she did. She was not well off. | 26:25 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No, but let me say this, Linda. Doc left something in his will for her every month until her death and then her interest in his estate ceased. And so she'd been getting a little small check ever since 1958. So up to 1994. | 26:38 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's another thing I want to tell you. See, which is a lot of times like White people do, because this is very rare for Blacks to do. After he died at the conclusion of his— | 26:54 |
| Stacey Scales | When did he die? | 27:02 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He died in 1958. May 17th, 1958, he had an estate called the W.S. Martin Estate, which existed from 1958 to last year. | 27:02 |
| Stacey Scales | To last year? | 27:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Last year. | 27:13 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | 1994. Well, let me finish saying this. I want to say about W.S. | 27:15 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Is that a shock? This is a Black person. | 27:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Now Doc was a little jealous. He thought that maybe at his death my aunt might marry again. But she said she would never mar his memory by marrying anybody else. So he left the bulk of his money to his brothers. He didn't have the three brothers, but my aunt benefited some from that. But she received a small check, a stipend ever since 1958 up to 1994. So that helped her a little bit. But he gave the bulk of his estate to his brothers. | 27:20 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | The point of it is this, and I want you to understand, this is another thing. My auntie, and I doubt it would've worked with a man like W.S. Martin. She could have as opposed to the wives of these other people. Well he was divorced, but AT and JB. | 27:47 |
| Stacey Scales | Who was divorced? | 28:01 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | BB. | 28:04 |
| Stacey Scales | BB divorced from his wife. | 28:04 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | As opposed to the other two. They were what you would typically consider— | 28:06 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Regular doctors' wives. | 28:09 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | —upper class wealthy wives who sit and do nothing and they don't work. But my auntie wasn't like that. In other words— | 28:11 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She worked. | 28:17 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | This is what I'm trying to tell you. This is what's important. It was choice. It was choice. She chose not to do this. She chose to work. And I mean she worked like a dog. | 28:18 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She worked 11 hours a day sometimes. | 28:27 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She wore her uniform. She was a registered nurse as well. She wore her uniform as administrator. And I'm talking about white dress shoes, hose, everything. And she didn't have to do that. You wouldn't get anybody to do that today. And as this other woman, that's the reason I'm trying to tell you about her being a first female hospital administrator in this city. Because people will tell you about this Lucy Shaw. Have you heard about her? She's supposed to be the president who resigned, under mysterious circumstances. | 28:30 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | From the med. | 28:55 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | From the med. And they seem to think that she is the first Black woman that was setting everything up. That's not true. | 28:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | My auntie was. | 29:05 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That just ain't so. My auntie was. She had a small 50 bed hospital and I mean she took care of it. She had 70 employees up under her. And let me tell you something, this'll say it all. She told me last year, she said, "You know the reason W.S married me?" Other than love. I bet you can't get. Because he could trust her. | 29:06 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She was honest with the money. | 29:23 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You don't find people honest like that. | 29:25 |
| Stacey Scales | So W.S. Martin was a — | 29:27 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Was my aunt's husband. | 29:28 |
| Stacey Scales | He was a baseball team owner. | 29:29 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Baseball team. Hospital owner. Medical doctor. | 29:32 |
| Stacey Scales | Medical doctor. | 29:36 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yes sir. And owned the team. | 29:36 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Now, when he died, he left about $500,000 but he gave most of it to his brothers. | 29:39 |
| Stacey Scales | Did you ever go to the— | 29:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well, he didn't give it. That's not quite true. | 29:45 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh yes. I used to go to the drugstore and get sundaes and ice cream sodas and we'd go there on Sundays after. | 29:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's not exactly true what she's saying. He didn't leave —Let me try to explain it to you. The rest of what he had after his estate closed was put into a trust estate. His brothers and my auntie benefited off of that. In other words, when you usually close the estate, the money is usually divided up. That's not the case here. The money was put into a trust estate so that they could benefit off of it from years to come. Putting it in accounts and they could benefit off of it. Now I think that that is a very shrewd move. You know why? | 29:53 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No. | 30:26 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I'll tell you why that's a shrewd move. Because if you divide money and just give it out that way, do you think it would exist 30 years later? No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. | 30:26 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But it lasted a long time. | 30:38 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | This was a very smart, very shrewd man. | 30:40 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well he was. | 30:44 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Obviously. | 30:44 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And everything he touched seemed to turn the money. He just had a knack for that. | 30:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He was just a great man and he was a decent, honest man. That's another thing. And a preacher man, that's another thing I think is important. A lot of times people were saying that maybe the Blacks that did get ahold of something at the time that it was from some crooked needs, but not W.S. Martin. That was not true. He made an honest living, earned an honest dollar and put it back. | 30:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And he was respected by White people. Whites would respect him. | 31:14 |
| Stacey Scales | Did Whites go to his drugstore? | 31:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I imagine they did. | 31:20 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | They did. Now let me tell you about the hospital, Collins Chapel Hospital. Because that was another big part. Matter of fact, he died in his own hospital. | 31:21 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Died in his own hospital. | 31:27 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | The White doctors would bring their Black patients there. See, during segregation, the med, or it was called John Gaston Hospital, was the only other place that Blacks could go. And you ask anybody in this city that's alive today will tell you that Gaston was just hell. They treated all those people just like they were cattle. But not at Collins Chapel. They will tell you that it was a decent, clean, private hospital that they could go. And nobody— | 31:29 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Be treated with respect. | 31:56 |
| Stacey Scales | How did they get their nurses and doctors? | 31:58 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well they recruited them from the country, from up in Tennessee and Texas. We had girls from Texas— | 32:00 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | W.S. would recruit them. | 32:06 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —and Mississippi. | 32:06 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And my auntie taught them. She taught nurses. | 32:12 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They had to sign a paper that they would be there. | 32:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | This woman could do everything. She taught nursing. | 32:13 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She was wonderful. | 32:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She was a bookkeeper. Matter of fact, she skipped a couple grades. So she was very, very —She's smarter than I am. She's very smart. Math and figures and stuff. She could just do anything. She ran a hospital. There was just nothing —As a matter of fact, she was the executor of W.S's Estate, of all the brothers' estates. | 32:15 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Of AT and BB as they passed. | 32:31 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | This woman was phenomenal. Phenomenal. | 32:32 |
| Stacey Scales | Where was the hospital located? | 32:35 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It's on Ayers. | 32:37 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | It's 409 North Ayers. | 32:38 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | A-Y-E-R-S. | 32:39 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | 409 North Ayers. | 32:41 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And Ayers is A-Y-E-R-S. | 32:43 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | A-Y-E-R-S. All you have to do is go down here to Dunlap and turn on Lane Avenue. Actually, W.S. Owned some property on Lane Avenue by the way. And it's right at Lane Avenue and Ayers. It became a nursing home. Well, let me tell you what happened. My auntie resigned in 1970 because of lack of funds. And that was during the time, the late '60s when integration was starting to flourish. And therefore the Black patients were starting to go toward the White hospitals where they had didn't shut out before and there just wasn't more money. It was a lot of stuff with the Black doctors turning. It was just a mess. So she resigned. | 32:44 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | After that, William George took over as the head. He wasn't any good and it became a nursing home. And then he kind of messed it up. And now the University of Tennessee, where I'm sure you had seen, the University of Tennessee for the health sciences, which is right over there by Baptist Hospital. That's a big medical center there. We call that the medical center area. We have University of Tennessee Boes Hospital. Baptist Hospital. Baptist Central. You have Methodist down there on Union and Le Bonheur. | 33:19 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Anyway, I guess, I don't know exactly when, but the University of Tennessee took it over and I believe this is right. It's a free clinic now. I know it's a clinic, I think it's free. But they built an addition onto the hospital, which it kind of juts out onto the Lane Avenue side. Okay. Because before that it was just parking lot. | 33:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Now let me tell you something else that I didn't tell you. How I know so much about Collins Chapel. Now this I can tell you firsthand about. I was a little girl and I lived at that hospital all the time. Because when I went to school, see I came here in '65, and when I was at school, my auntie would pick me up and carry me back up to the hospital because she wasn't through working. And I would sit in her office. Let me tell you what she did, let me tell you how phenomenal this woman is. Listen to this. She taught me how to count money and sack money in her office. I was eight years old. | 34:07 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | You were a patient in the hospital when she had an operation for a right inguinal hernia. | 34:34 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I was a patient in March, 1965. And this White doctor, she got him personally to do the surgery. And get this, she was in the surgery with me. Do you get what I'm saying? | 34:38 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Linda's crazy about auntie. | 34:48 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Now how many people can do that? But it was her hospital. She could do what she wanted to do. And she was in there and they moved in. I was in there a week and I did fine. So I was patient and I'm living proof that it was a clean hospital that had air conditioning. They had two floors. They had, I think it was two surgeries and one delivery room. I'm probably the only eight-year-old girl that ever saw a delivery room. Do you know what them things were for? The stirrups? I was eight years old, but I saw it. Probably the only eight-year-old girl that knew what a centrifuge was. We had our own lab and I could just walk around in there. We even had a pharmacy. My auntie would be in the pharmacy and I'd see all these drugs and stuff. They had this Black pharmacist, Mr. Billings, that would come from University of Tennessee that was trained over there and he would fill the prescriptions. | 34:52 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They had some White pharmacist. They had integrated staff. | 35:35 |
| Stacey Scales | Would most Blacks have babies there? | 35:39 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yes they did. | 35:42 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Most of them. | 35:42 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Jesse Turner's wife had her children over there. | 35:44 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And then what I was going to say, they had mixed help because they had a White pharmacist and a Black pharmacist. And they also had a White dietary head over there too. Handling the kitchen. | 35:48 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's true. | 36:00 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Ms. Wortz, W-O-R-T-Z. | 36:01 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | We also had a cafeteria, very nice cafeteria for the employees to have their breakfast, lunch, dinner. I'm telling you it was a fine [indistinct 00:36:11]. I'm stressing it so much because the average person wouldn't think — | 36:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It was anything. | 36:12 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah, wouldn't think it's anything. But I'm telling you, I'm living proof. And I can tell you that it was a clean, decent place. And my auntie ran —I'm telling you, my auntie must have had four and five bunches of huge keys. Do you know she had a key to every door in that place? Every door in that place. [indistinct 00:36:32] everything. And I would call, honey, I could tell you things are down in the basement. She'd have that locked up and they would get kits from the Johnson & Johnson, company that makes the little baby lotion, the baby stuff. And they would prepare kits and send them to Collins Chapel for the new mothers for infant care. Little miniature samples or the little baby products and would come in a little kit. Oh, and they had a nursery. Well obviously they got a delivery room. They got to have a nursery and they had a nursery up there with a glass on the second floor and you could see the little babies in the bassinets. And I'm telling you, it was a fine, fine place. | 36:16 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yes it was. | 37:04 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yes, it was a fine place. And my auntie, I'm telling you, she worked. So that's what I'm trying to get across to you because you may have a different idea. | 37:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Even the mayor of Memphis came to her when she retired. Came to her retirement party. The mayor of Memphis. | 37:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well he didn't come to the retirement party. | 37:21 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, I think he did as I recall. That's what she told me. | 37:24 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | What retirement? Are you talking about— | 37:27 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | When she retired from the hospital, Linda. | 37:27 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No, but there were only two things. It was the thing at the church. Well not a party. That was a program. | 37:29 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well maybe that's what it was. | 37:35 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well maybe it was at church because it wasn't— | 37:36 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It was the church. | 37:36 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | The point is this, you have a woman that was married to a very wealthy man, but she worked as hard as any kind of blue collar worker or anything like that. Now that you don't see. | 37:43 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | You don't find such dedication. You don't find that Now. | 37:49 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's what I'm trying to get across. | 37:52 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | People are little frivolous. They want to be out at parties or playing bridge. | 37:53 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | But she wasn't like that. | 37:59 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She didn't do that. | 37:59 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Now, the other wives were. | 38:00 |
| Stacey Scales | What made her like that? | 38:00 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I don't know. Her own father. Well her father, her White father in Monroe, Louisiana was a businessman and a politician. So she was more business gearing. | 38:01 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Like me. In other words, it wasn't any silliness in it. That's how we got along. See, she raised me. I'm very much like her. Not silly, frivolous, common. We are not —just no common. Not common to put down other people. Because I told you that she was trained that nobody's better than anybody else. And I told you that. But common meaning just frivolous, just anything different. | 38:10 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Carefree. | 38:36 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Very business-like. There would be no other way this woman could have handled what she did. This is not the average woman. You see what I mean? | 38:37 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She's phenomenal, she's wonderful woman, wonderful. All the Whites called her Miss Eva. And I remember she had courses in psychiatry and x-ray and all, she was an x-ray technician, all of that. And she went over to St. Joseph Hospital through Sister Fedalis and Sister —I forget some of the other names. And she took courses and she never did try to push herself up with the Whites. She'd get in the course and she'd take a backseat in the back of the room. She never did try to push herself on the others. And she took all these extra courses. She was constantly studying. She took work at the University of Colorado. | 38:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well she did that up there in order to train to be an administrator. See, she was actually made administrator about a year before her husband died. He had cancer. He went up to Mayo Clinic and that's where they discovered it. And like I said, he died in his own hospital. | 39:22 |
| Stacey Scales | So you were from Chicago. | 39:36 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I am. I was ill for a while, but the reason Linda came here, I was sick in the hospital, so somebody had to take care of me, Linda. So when she came down here and my aunt took care of her, she said, "Well, mama, I don't want to just dash around from school to school." She said, "Let me stay here." And she finished. And so I did because Chicago was so dangerous. And so I knew eventually that I was coming down here. | 39:40 |
| Stacey Scales | In the '40s and '50s, or even before then, how would you compare your neighborhood here to living in Chicago? | 39:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, where I live in Chicago now, where my house is in a Polish and Mexican neighborhood in southeast Chicago on Colfax. You know where Colfax is? | 40:08 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes, actually. | 40:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I lived in Woodlawn before, it was 6159 Eberhart where I was going to University of Chicago. So that was all right in Woodlawn in the '40s and '50s was a lovely neighborhood. And here this is more a commercial neighborhood. Now that end down there is very poor. But my aunt said since we had so many cats and dogs and everything, that this was ideal for us. Now some of the rich people live out on Parkway. But my auntie didn't want any ostentation. She just wanted to live kind of country style. | 40:21 |
| Stacey Scales | So was this a Black neighborhood? | 40:48 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's what I'm trying to get at. | 40:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Just wait a minute, Linda. This house was owned by some Italians and she bought it from them. | 40:50 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No, what is is now— | 40:55 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But she's had the house for about 30 some years. | 40:56 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Where my mother lives now is not, that's the difference now. | 40:59 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It's mixed. | 41:01 |
| Stacey Scales | When you first came here, were there places that you wouldn't go? | 41:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yes, there were places. I wouldn't go to any of these dives, these taverns and things like that and nightclubs. I'd never been to anyone like here because they weren't so fine. But where I lived in Chicago, I lived in good neighborhoods, all good neighborhoods. Lived in Woodlawn when I was going University of Chicago. And then I lived on Colfax before I came down here. | 41:05 |
| Stacey Scales | Would there be places in your community where you wouldn't go? | 41:26 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh yes. I have never set up to a bar in my life. I always consider that common women sitting at a bar, drinking. If they want to drink something, drink at home or in someone's home. But not just get out and corral and drink and fall out. | 41:29 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | We're very moral people. | 41:44 |
| Stacey Scales | So did that come from your parents? | 41:44 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | My parents and upbringing. Then I was a minister there toward the last, at the St. Clotilde Catholic Church. I couldn't give the sacrament, but I could go in the home and offer prayer, administer praise. So my religion and all of that. I couldn't allow myself to frequent some of the places where a lot of ordinary people would go. Not ordinary, but I mean where they're just, shall we say, unbridled and carefree. I don't go in those places now. | 41:47 |
| Stacey Scales | So could you tell me about your grandparents and parents? | 42:13 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, yes, my maternal grandmother was Mrs. Anna Cartman. That was my auntie's mother. And then my father's mother, Mrs. Emma Elizabeth Collins, was born in Memphis. And her White father, she had a White father, was named Mr. Hunt. He owned coal yards and lumber yards. And then her mother was part Cherokee Indian. Her mother's name is Francis Turner. | 42:16 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So I lived with my father's mother in Chicago. But as soon as the schools would let out, I would come south and stay with my mother's people. So I never really was hanging around the city of Chicago to get in trouble like a lot of people. And I was an only child and my people never sent me to a summer camp because they thought I might get an overturned canoe or something like that. | 42:38 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well they never had any summer camps for Blacks, did they? | 42:59 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No, I'm talking about in Chicago, they had the YWCA camps, all kind of camps. But I never went there because my people thought I might get hurt, might die swimming or something like that. So I stayed with my father's mother in Chicago when I was going to University of Chicago and all of that. But then in the summer I'd come down here and be with my mother's people. So I never did have a chance to run the street. And I didn't have any boyfriends. I met my husband out on the campus of the University of Chicago. That's right. | 43:01 |
| Stacey Scales | Your grandparents were from? | 43:28 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, my mother's mother, her White father was from Midnight, Mississippi. And Grandma Anna, Miss Anna Cartman was born in Egypt, Mississippi. And she had blonde hair as a child. But then her hair turned kind of reddish brown kind of henna before she died, dark brown. | 43:30 |
| Stacey Scales | Did they ever share stories with you about their views on segregation? | 43:46 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No, they never did share it. Because I asked what her mother looked like. She said her mother was light and had coal black straight hair. So I had a feeling that maybe Grandma Anna's mother might have been mixed with some of that Choctaw Indian or something. | 43:50 |
| Stacey Scales | Or their views on slavery or anything? | 44:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well no. They never did talk about slavery because they didn't know anything about it since they weren't slaves. And her mother wasn't a slave. But I did hear my father's mother say something about her mother's mother who was —well no, my paternal grandmother, Ms. Emma Elizabeth Collins, her White father was Mr. Hunt. But her mother, Ms. Francis Turner, said that some of her people, I think had been a slave and that the White man would've killed her. But he said she was such a darn good slave when she got to fighting and was hitting somebody. | 44:04 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Now let me tell you something else that we haven't brought up. Because my auntie and her sister looked like they did, it seems to me that it would occur to you a lot of Blacks didn't exactly like that. But let me tell you what they would do. See, my auntie and her sister had hair — | 44:39 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They could sit on. | 44:58 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | —they could sit on. That didn't go over too well with other Black people. And now it didn't upset my people, but it upset the other people. And when she said when they would be on their way to school, she said the little Black children were pull their pigtails. They'd have them in braids and just pull them and just making hell for them. And she found that all throughout her life. So in other words, but this would be an interesting point, which I feel you've never addressed. I didn't see it in those articles, but you sort of caught hell from both sides. Now that's something I've never seen in those articles. You caught hell from both sides. Now that's something different. You did. Sort of from both sides. | 45:01 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | The Blacks were kind of jealous because they had the long hair. | 45:37 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | The Whites hate you because you got that little Black in you and the Blacks hate you because you're too White. | 45:41 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, that's the whole story. | 45:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | So then where does that leave you? Somewhere in limbo land. It's a very, very hard thing, especially for her to come. And especially when she was in that position, she had a very hard time. And let me tell you, that's probably why she did what she did. Which she was a person who kept a very low profile. She didn't like any pomp about anything. Even though she was Mrs. W.S. Martin. | 45:47 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Just dangerous to be too ostentatious too. It's just best to be low key. And nobody'll bother you. | 46:12 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She believed that. So everything she did was very low key. The way she treated her employees. And in other words, she sort of, I guess what you would say is took low. | 46:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She did. | 46:25 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Because otherwise being the way she looked, and in other words you would think— | 46:25 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She was very humble. | 46:30 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She'd just be real bossy, sort of like I am. | 46:31 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But she was more humble. | 46:34 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She's very aggressive, but she wasn't like me and she couldn't be. | 46:35 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Could be a year. | 0:01 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | July 8th. | 0:02 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She died right in front of me, she just stopped— | 0:03 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Just stopped— | 0:05 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I've been careful, for the last 10 years, all by myself, 24 hours a day. | 0:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Twenty-four hours a day. | 0:09 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I did. | 0:10 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She was her nurse. | 0:10 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | By herself. | 0:11 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | By myself. | 0:11 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah. You don't have a Xerox? | 0:12 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yes, I do have this copy. Let me first tell you. This woman at the funeral home thought it should be in the paper. In other words, I'm sure in every city where you have a listing of the obits, pictures. But see with her, this woman felt like because of her position of who she was, she deserved a big article, and a big picture, and like that, which my Auntie wouldn't have gone along with. Matter of fact, my Auntie had a graveside service, she didn't even want a big wake and big funeral, all that kind of stuff, she did not want that. Do you understand? Even through death, she would not like that. | 0:12 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well listen, Linda. | 0:42 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's just the way she was. | 0:44 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Do you have that picture you got back from Dr. Haddock of your Auntie and W.S. you could show Mr. Stacey? | 0:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well, I have one in the old hospital, which is in the other thing that was in the commercial appeal. | 0:51 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No, I'm speaking about the picture that you got back that was in color of W.S. and Auntie. A single picture that was up on the wall at the exhibit. The wall. | 0:55 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | There was no picture of the two of them together. | 1:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Not together. Say, these are single pictures. One of W— | 1:07 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I have one of her, the 8X10, I don't know— | 1:09 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But that's what I'm talking about, 8X10. | 1:11 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I have that in there. Let me— | 1:12 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Hand this to me right here. | 1:15 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | See, you've happened up on a phenomenal family here. | 1:17 |
| Stacey Scales | When you speak of catching it from both sides, how would you respond to that when the people with— | 1:20 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, I never have been really discriminated. One thing I can think of at the University of Chicago, which is always pretty liberal place, I was taking a course there, one of my last quarters in Latin American History. And there was a professor named Dr. J. Fred Rippy, R-I-P-P-Y. And I think he was from someplace in Tennessee. And when I was in the class, I had my hair in braids then, I looked like a little Indian, because I didn't have all this weight on me and so forth. I must have been about a size 10 or 12. And he'd always talk about mixed up monkeys, and Porfirio Diaz, and Juarez were mixed up monkeys, part Indian and everything. And he told Black jokes about a little Negro boy was on a fence, a White man said, "You want this watch, or you want this piece of watermelon?" | 1:29 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And they all fell out, some Catholic sisters in there, too. So I went to Dr. Redfield, who had been my discussion leader in So-Sci III, and he was the head of the Social Science Department. I said, "Dr. Redfield," I said, "Every day Dr. Rippy is telling these Black jokes." | 2:24 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | He said, "Well honey, he doesn't even think that you're Black." I say, he say, "You can't say anything to him because your grade would be involved." Said, "But he's the most tactless man. So I reproached myself for even having approved of him to be on the faculty." So that's the only time. But it wasn't, discrimination wasn't directed toward me. It was just in general. Let me see, Linda. That's a beautiful picture. Isn't that good looking? | 2:42 |
| Stacey Scales | That is. | 3:09 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, that's good looking. | 3:09 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | This is an article. | 3:11 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Is that the only article you have? | 3:12 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He can have this article. | 3:14 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | You can have that. | 3:15 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I got another copy of it. See? | 3:15 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Mm-hmm. | 3:16 |
| Stacey Scales | So would you ever feel that same pressure from other Blacks? | 3:20 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, oh yes, the Blacks, well my Aunt made this statement. She said, "Darling," she said, "I'm so happy that you're Brown." And because my mother was so fair and everything, "I'm just so happy that you're Brown. You won't meet with the discrimination from Blacks that I have met." Because she was so fair. But I guess my hair must have spoiled it. I met with more discrimination from Black people than I have from White. | 3:25 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's true. | 3:47 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That is an absolute fact. | 3:48 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Especially my Auntie. | 3:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | One woman over to the school where I was teaching hit me, said, "I hate you. I heard your mother was White, and I hate White people, and I hate you." And she hit me. I was going to have breakfast. So I reported it to the Board of Education. | 3:50 |
| Stacey Scales | When did this happen? | 4:03 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That happened in 1993. | 4:03 |
| Stacey Scales | Oh, that was recent. | 4:08 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Recent. Uh-huh. This Black woman. | 4:09 |
| Stacey Scales | Did you ever have any— | 4:11 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So I had to go down to the Board of Education and report her. She later left the school and went somewhere. I don't know where she went. I think I heard she went to Atlanta. But I thought that was so bad because I'm not White-looking or anything like that, but she had just heard that. Because she hadn't seen my mother's picture. But the principal was very hateful. So really, that is the truth. I have met more discrimination from Black people than I have from White people. Because coming out— | 4:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | [indistinct 00:04:38] chapel. Isn't that nice? See, it don't look like what you thought, now does it? Tell the truth. | 4:37 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Hold it up. Let me see it, too. Yeah, that was a nice little hospital. | 4:43 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That was the way it looked before. | 4:46 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They had a lot of magnolia trees around it. | 4:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | We had magnolia trees all in the back. It was wonderful. | 4:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So that's— | 4:54 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Doesn't that look like a decent place? | 4:55 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That is lovely. | 4:56 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And a modern place. | 4:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. | 4:58 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Modern. | 4:58 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But my Aunt— | 4:59 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You see now, the old hospital— | 5:00 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Look at that nice expression she has on her face. She's so humble and just so caring for everybody. | 5:00 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And Hooks brothers, you've heard of the Hooks brothers here? They're another famous family of photographers. They were friends. | 5:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They're related to Benjamin Hooks. | 5:10 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah, Benjamin Hooks is in that family. See, they're all friends of ours. | 5:12 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Mm-hmm. But that's the truth. I had more pressure from Black people than I ever did from any White people. Because one thing, you can see White people coming, but a lot of Black people do things against you. I imagine you found that out, too in certain things. A lot of Black people you take as a friend, and actually, they're an enemy. | 5:15 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. What was your first job when you came to Memphis? | 5:33 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I'm not working. | 5:37 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She's just from Chicago. | 5:37 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I'm from Chicago. No, I was school teacher. I'm retired. | 5:39 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She just come down here and visit. This is the first time she— | 5:41 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, I never had a job. | 5:43 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | [indistinct 00:05:45] | 5:44 |
| Stacey Scales | This is the first time you lived here? | 5:44 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No, see she can't [indistinct 00:05:47] | 5:45 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No. I used to come five or six times a year. | 5:46 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah. | 5:48 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | When my Aunt was in automobile accident, I stayed down here three months and— | 5:49 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She took a leave of absence. | 5:53 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —I was down here 11 times in one year. | 5:54 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | But see, I had to take— | 5:58 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I never had a job. | 5:58 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | My Auntie, I took care of my Auntie, 20— | 5:58 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | My daughter's never worked. | 6:00 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You might not understand what I mean. See, she was like a semi-invalid. She could hardly walk. I gave her several enemas every day myself. She taught me how to do it because she was a registered nurse. Yes, I'm sure you don't hear about enemas. But I know how to give them. | 6:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She knows how to give them. | 6:15 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And I mean, I just worked like a dog, just morning, noon, and night. And I took care of her myself for 10 years, 24-hours-a-day. | 6:16 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And we have a lot of good White friends in Memphis. Attorney Jiminany, Arthur Jiminany just died. He was 87 years old. And he said he wasn't going to retire until he was 90. But his his office girl found him in the floor, he'd been down there 17 hours. | 6:27 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Isn't that a nice hospital? | 6:40 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And he's a Consul of Italy. And he's dead, so we had to start up with a new lawyer. So we have a nice relationship with the Whites in Memphis, the ones we have to deal with. | 6:41 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | This is the entrance. This is the entrance in the middle. See between those two hedges, that's the entrance. Now, this man has a picture of her and W.S. in front of this. This must have been before he died or right—Now, this hospital opened in 1955. | 6:50 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | See what happened is, the old hospital, Collins Chapel Connectional Hospital, which was built on an adjacent piece of land to this at 418 Ashland, they had to tear down, to close it down, because they lost their accreditation. It was something that was happening in the government, you know how they accredit places, and nursing homes, and stuff? And they couldn't meet that. So they had to close down. And they did— | 7:01 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Build another one. | 7:19 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | —not have a nursing school here. This was just a hospital. | 7:20 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That's the hospital. The other one was a nursing school. | 7:23 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | It was a nursing school and hospital. | 7:25 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And hospital. | 7:27 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And hospital. And see, she taught nursing. And she taught a lot of the people that ended up being her friends, she taught them nursing. | 7:27 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And also, she had an integrated staff for the nursing. She had a lot of Catholic sisters to come over there, and Catholic priests, too. | 7:35 |
| Stacey Scales | Did they build the building, as well? | 7:44 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, they built it. | 7:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah, they did. Now this was the Collins Chapel. | 7:45 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | W.S. raised the money. | 7:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Collins Chapel did this [indistinct 00:07:50] | 7:48 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It was a church. | 7:50 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | —Collins Chapel CME Church, which is located on Washington. But that's why I tried to tell you that that ended when my Auntie resigned. And then I don't know how George— | 7:51 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They didn't have enough money to keep it on. | 7:59 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | The point of it is, University of Tennessee has it now. It is this building, it's still functioning. | 8:01 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It's a clinic. | 8:06 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | It has an addition. But UT has it. | 8:07 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It's a clinic. | 8:09 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | University of Tennessee has it right now. | 8:10 |
| Stacey Scales | Was it put together by a Black construction company? | 8:12 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That I don't know. But Doc had some money— | 8:17 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I'm not sure. | 8:18 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —and the White man gave him some money, and he just went on and had it constructed. | 8:18 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | It is. And you can see you. You're surprised. Now tell the truth. You're really surprised, aren't you? | 8:22 |
| Stacey Scales | It looks very modern. | 8:26 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | It does. This opened in 1955. And matter of fact, there's a big article, which I have, this man gave a copy of, which was from the Commercial Appeal. And it shows a picture of my Auntie and W.S. in an old-timey x-ray machine. And the article was about the opening of this new hospital. And my Auntie could do anything. | 8:29 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh, yes. | 8:48 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She was not only an administrator, but she was trained as a nurse. She could do four nursing, could do x-rays, surgical nurse. She could do it. | 8:48 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Everything. | 8:53 |
| Stacey Scales | About how many rooms did the hospital have? | 8:53 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Fifty. | 8:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Fifty. | 8:57 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Fifty beds. | 8:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Fifty. | 8:58 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Fifty bed. Now, they had no emergency room. I think it was two surgeries. I think it was two surgeries, one delivery room. They had a nursery, had a cafeteria, they had a lab, had a pharmacy, a small pharmacy. It was the neatest thing. They had this door, which is a door in half. Have you seen these doors where you could, in other words— | 8:59 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | A little counter. | 9:19 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | —like a little countertop? | 9:20 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. | 9:21 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You got half and it's a door that can, it's in half. So they opened the top half and the bottom half is like a little counter. And they had no emergency room. But it was just a fine, fine, fine place. | 9:21 |
| Stacey Scales | At what point did it open and when did it close? | 9:33 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | '55. | 9:33 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | '55 | 9:36 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Closed in 1970. Now actually, I think it really closed in, it's either '69 or '70. They stayed open a year to collect money on their bills, to get their debts paid from people that owed the money. So I guess it officially closed in either, I'm going to say 1970. I think that's about right. This particular building opened in 1955 for business. The new one. I mean, she just— | 9:36 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That was wonderful for a man to do all of that, have a hospital, and a baseball park, and baseball club. Wasn't that wonderful? | 9:59 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And what's also phenomenal is that a woman, a Black woman, could run all this by herself. And she did it. | 10:06 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She certainly did. | 10:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And was the only, see, that's the point I'm trying to tell you. She was the only woman. I'm talking about only woman, Black or White. There wasn't any other White woman that was head of a hospital. And I doubt they would've made them head of a hospital in the 50s. Do you think they— | 10:14 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And some White man wanted to make her head of another hospital here— | 10:25 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's true. | 10:28 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —after she retired. When she said no, she wanted to rest. | 10:28 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah, they had, this was by Gaylor Clinic down there, I think was some TB hospital they had there. And, you see, she knew every administrator of every hospital in this town. Oh, what, they all called her Miss Eva? Anything College Chapel did not have, she could get from them. Any hospital in [indistinct 00:10:45]. | 10:33 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She could call St. Jude, the Methodist, or St. Joseph. They said, "We'll send it right over." | 10:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Because they all called her, well, Miss Eva. So the thing about it was, when she retired, because she was ready to give it up then. And I'm glad she did, because she was sick, she was, after that, started develop high blood pressure. And I really, she just couldn't have done it. At the time she was working, she was a perfectly healthy woman. Just healthy as a horse. Now, the thing about it is, when she was resigning, this friend of hers, somehow he had controlled this TB hospital. Do you know what he did? He offered her the administrative position of that hospital. | 10:48 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Certainly did. | 11:15 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She said no. | 11:15 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She said no, she wasn't— | 11:17 |
| Stacey Scales | Were there any other Black hospitals other than this one, here? | 11:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They used to be Jane Terrell all years ago. T-E-R-R-E-L-L. But it didn't come up to the stature of College Chapel. | 11:20 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No. I think that was a teaching hospital, too, was a university [indistinct 00:11:28] | 11:26 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I don't know what it was, but it went out of business. | 11:28 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No. | 11:30 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Mm-hmm. | 11:31 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | But this— | 11:31 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | This the only one that survived. | 11:32 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | [indistinct 00:11:34] because it lost accreditation. But I'm telling you, people, they knew how to run things, knew how to run it with a firm hand. Yet they were very, very nice to people. | 11:35 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Matter of fact, I can tell you example of a person, was taking my mother to the doctor a couple months ago, it's bizarre. I wondered so many people in this city that are her age, I'm telling you, every one of them, it just shows you the power of this family, you mention the Martins at Collins Chapel, every single one of them know who you're talking about. Every single one. Don't worry- | 11:43 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh yeah, we remember W.S. You know. | 12:00 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | They're just strangers. Can you imagine? And she was telling me a wonderful story about, I'd asked her, had she ever been in Collins Chapel Hospital? And she said. Yes, she was getting, I think it was a hysterectomy or something. And she was telling me how W.S. himself, I think, I don't know whether he was her doctor or something. But anyway, he came into a room, and this was after she had the surgery, and was trying to encourage her to eating, to start to build back her strength. But she didn't want to eat. And she said, "You know, he just was so nice about it." You would thought he would be very stern, and hard, and just tell her just like, "You got to do this and you got to eat." But he didn't do it like that. He was very patient and kind. She remembers that to this day, how kind he was. | 12:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No, my Aunt never didn't have any children. That's why she was so crazy about my daughter. | 12:42 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No. | 12:46 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh, okay. | 12:46 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No, they didn't have any children. Now— | 12:47 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | You have any children, Mr. Stacey? | 12:51 |
| Stacey Scales | No. | 12:53 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Don't have any children. | 12:53 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I see you're married. | 12:53 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. | 12:54 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Is your wife in Atlanta? | 12:56 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Should have brought your wife with you. | 12:57 |
| Stacey Scales | She's in Atlanta. | 12:58 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh, she's in Atlanta, too? Isn't that lovely? Is she a student, too? | 12:59 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. | 13:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh, that's wonderful. | 13:03 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You should have brought her with you. | 13:04 |
| Stacey Scales | Next time, I will. | 13:05 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Anyway, J.B. is the one that had children and that's who the heirs are. | 13:07 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, he's only one that had any legitimate children. B.B. had a illegitimate daughter and he left her house and a little money, but she's dead now. | 13:11 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And let me tell you, it was a difference because I know these people at Memphis State, I asked her, there was a difference in the personality. And I guess you would almost be able to figure that out. Because W.S. was the [indistinct 00:13:27] and the one that was, in other words, he was the eldest. And he was the one who paved the way. And obviously, you would think that somebody like that would be the most serious, the most serious-minded then, which he was. B.B., who was here, was, what I'm trying to explain to you is why he would have an illegitimate child. | 13:18 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | We don't know what it stands for, but just B.B.. But W.S. stands for William Sylvester. And J.B. stands for John B. And A.T. is for Arthur. | 13:43 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Arthur T. | 13:51 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Arthur T. | 13:53 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And on. And all of them are dead. See, and now W.S. and A.T. were physicians. B.B. was a dentist and J.B. was a pharmacist. | 13:53 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And B.B. was kind of a sports— | 13:59 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And that's what I'm trying to figure. | 14:01 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —sports guy. I mean, he liked— | 14:02 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He was much more flamboyant in personality— | 14:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —to go to racetracks. Flamboyant. | 14:04 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Just, no telling what this man would do. And you couldn't do this today. My Auntie was there, and I saw it myself. He would have all these rings on. | 14:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Big diamond. | 14:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Kind of like a Sammy Davis. All these rings on. Let me tell you, he carried just rolls of money, several hundred dollar bills just, "Oh, you want some money?" It was awful people. It was awful. Couldn't do that today. | 14:13 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Couldn't do that today. | 14:26 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You'd walk out the house, well, honey, you sure ain't gonna walk back in. | 14:27 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That's right, that's right now. | 14:30 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I don't think so! | 14:30 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | (laughs) | 14:30 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Of all of them, after W.S. died, my Auntie was closest to B.B.. We used to go over to his house all the time. To go over to his house. Now, the house he was in on Kentucky, W.S. owned that, too, didn't he? | 14:34 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, yeah. W.S. bought it for his mother. B.B. wouldn't pay him any rent. He'd just stay there rent free. Tell him, "I'm not going to give you any money." | 14:43 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Let me tell somebody that was on the Red Sox, too, Charlie Pride. | 14:50 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | You know, the country singer was over, played with Red Sox. | 14:52 |
| Stacey Scales | Charlie Pride played, really? | 14:55 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Charlie Pride, uh-huh. He played with the Red Sox. | 14:56 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yes. | 14:58 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. | 14:58 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Absolutely. And honey, let me tell you about Pride. He was a cotton-picker from Mississippi. And he come on the team. So in other words—I asked her at the time, did she know that he could sing? He said no. | 15:00 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | He said it sounded like White people when he sings, you know those country songs. | 15:08 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah, it does. But I tell you, and of course, you know the story about him and Crump? | 15:15 |
| Stacey Scales | No. | 15:19 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Let me tell you that. (train horn blows) See, these people, not only [indistinct 00:15:22] I was telling you, but in addition now, you'll find this interesting, this was a family. Even though they got along, like I said, when they overcome obstacles and even take advantage of everything, but they bucked Crump. | 15:19 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | J.B. did. | 15:38 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | J.B. did. Crump was a boss here. You know— | 15:39 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Big Democrat. | 15:42 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Like Richard Daley, you know, was sort of like a boss, whose called That Old Timey Boss. | 15:43 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Machine boss. | 15:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You understand? Like that? Yeah. | 15:48 |
| Stacey Scales | All right. | 15:49 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Machine boss. You had this E.H. Crump. And I know you see on the signs here, this street, this thoroughfare is E.H. Crump Boulevard, it's named for him. And his house is a historical landmark down there on Peabody. This Crump ran this town. And I mean he ran it. Let me tell you something, White people were even afraid of him. And J.B. Martin— | 15:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Bucked him. | 16:09 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | —a Black, man bucked him. The point of it is, White people would go and scatter and hide. | 16:11 |
| Stacey Scales | So what do you say? | 16:16 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So see what happened. Let me explain. | 16:16 |
| Stacey Scales | What you mean by bucked? | 16:18 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, J.B.— | 16:19 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Defied him. | 16:19 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —defied him. Crump told J.B., said, "J.B., if you make that speech at that Colored church for the Republicans, I'm going to run you out of this town." So J.B. said, "I'm making it." And so J.B. got into big Republican politics after he left here and went to Chicago. But J.B. made it very uncomfortable for him. And so J.B. had to leave. | 16:20 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He forced him. And matter of fact, W.S. was the one, her husband told him to leave. He said, "If you don't leave, he's going to kill you." | 16:45 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That's right, said, "Have you killed." | 16:49 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And made him leave. What I'm trying to tell you, J.B., now this is what's different. J.B. Martin was the only Martin who was really into politics. Matter of fact, he was a big Republican. I venture to guess, if he had been White, he'd have been mayor of the city. He was very, and I'm talking about very influential and powerful in this city. And that's the reason he went up against Crump. You understand what I'm saying to you? White people were afraid of Crump. His own people were afraid of him. So for a Black man to defy him, was unheard of. If the White people- | 16:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | He shouldn't made J.B. leave here. | 17:20 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | They were scared to death of him. | 17:20 |
| Stacey Scales | When was this? | 17:23 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | When was this? I think 1950. | 17:23 |
| Stacey Scales | 1950? | 17:24 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Not that was before that. | 17:24 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | No, it says in this book here, 1950, J.B. went to Chicago, had to be around '49. If it's down in J.B.'s part, Linda, in 1950. | 17:27 |
| Stacey Scales | So why do you think he stood up even against him? | 17:39 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I don't know. Well, J.B. was kind of flamboyant. He had diamonds, too, and so forth. And it was even rumored that, well, J.B. had a bullet in his back. They said somebody tried to kill him because he was going with some White woman, too, I think. His wife looked like White. | 17:41 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | His wife was insanely jealous. | 17:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | His wife was insanely jealous. | 17:58 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I told, my Auntie told me, he said it was something she took a gun after. | 17:59 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. Said down there on Florida Street, said she had little William, J.B. had two son, J.B., Junior and William. And said, "Lula," that was J.B.'s wife, had William by the hand and went in and shot through the shotgun house. And shot all the way straight through, trying to scare this woman (laughs). Yeah. | 18:06 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | But now her husband, let me try to explain it to you, about [indistinct 00:18:26], so that explains J.B. and how B.B. worked. But my Auntie's husband was not like that, like bad. His mind, see, his mind was just on that hospital [indistinct 00:18:38]. | 18:24 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And money, making money. | 18:38 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's why [indistinct 00:18:39]. | 18:38 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That's all he cared about was making money. | 18:39 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He was not frivolous-minded, like the average man, with the ladies and all that kind of stuff. | 18:39 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | He wasn't like that. He wasn't like that. | 18:46 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | See? And that's why he and my Auntie got along so well. Even, I know you're wondering, how could you possibly be attached to a woman that's 30 years younger than you? Because they have the same values, the same drives, everything. That's why. So age really doesn't matter. If you're the same type of people, that's what matters. And they were. | 18:49 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Matter of fact, he trained her, everything she was, this man trained. She started working at Collins Chapel and that's how she met him. Because I told you, she had nothing. Think she worked as a secretary. She even took bookkeeping. The point is she just, well let's see, for lack of better word, she just locked up when she married, in a big way. | 19:09 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Big family. | 19:28 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You know? | 19:28 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, you know, J.B. liked to just say he made everybody, "Oh, you're don't find this in the world." Just make everybody feel good. | 19:32 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He was like that. That's [indistinct 00:19:39]. | 19:38 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But I think W.S. had more respect to the White people because he was low-key and didn't try to push himself on anybody. | 19:39 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | But he also attracted Black people, too. | 19:46 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | He also just tried to make money. | 19:46 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's another point. He respected them. He didn't try to lord over them or try to belittle them because of who he was, his position. He was not like that. That's why that proves what I was telling you about the woman, the patient, had the hysterectomy. | 19:47 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. | 20:02 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You know? | 20:02 |
| Stacey Scales | Did they have any sisters? I noticed this all— | 20:04 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, he had one sister named Hattie Saunders and she married Callier, Dr. Callier. Her husband was a doctor. | 20:06 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | He was a downtowner. What did you do with that? It says here, that's how this Dr. Irving got hooked up. See? | 20:13 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | His sister was named Hattie Saunders Callier. | 20:19 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | See? Said the Martins and their sister. | 20:22 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | S-A-U-N-D-E-R-S. | 20:23 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | [indistinct 00:20:25] to Dr. Chattanooga. | 20:25 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 20:26 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, that was his last husband. The first husband was a Dr. Saunders. | 20:26 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah, Dr. Collier. | 20:30 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It's not Collier, the article says Collier, but his name was Callier. C-A-L-L-I-E-R. But he wasn't nice to her. He just married her because she was W.S.' assistant. That's what I heard. And she went down after that. She died right after she married him. He he mistreated her in some way. | 20:32 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You know, that's another thing about that. Because I think, it looked like to me, I remember her telling me that J.B. or Junior, that's the son, he's also dead. | 20:51 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Called J.B. Both his sons are dead. | 20:56 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Senior. Yeah. Both his sons are. Seems to me, with Betty, I remember her telling me it was some guy or something she was hooked up with. And her father messed that up on purpose because he thought that the man was just after her money and he got that broke up. She's never married. I mean, I may be an old maid. She's 50-something old. | 20:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, she's 50. | 21:14 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | So I think that's worse. Don't you think so? | 21:18 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. I got soul in it. | 21:18 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I think it's only the scheme of things. | 21:18 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. Well, that helps answer some of your question, doesn't it? | 21:23 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. It surely does. | 21:25 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well it's just, I mean— | 21:26 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Give him the downtown, Linda— | 21:27 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Oh, yeah! | 21:31 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —so he'll have that. | 21:31 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah. | 21:31 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Keep that. | 21:31 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You can have that. But there's just no way to talk about this without talking about this family. | 21:32 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. Now, what made the one brother more moral, in a sense, than the others? | 21:36 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, I think W.S. was, I don't know whether he was a deacon, or he was something at the church. And he was a 32nd degree, 33rd degree Mason. | 21:43 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | This is [indistinct 00:21:52] Collins Chapel Church, the same— | 21:51 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And he had big position at the church. He'd give a lot of money to the church and all like that. So he was more Christian than they were. The others were interested in ostentation. | 21:53 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Exactly. | 22:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | A.T. wasn't so much into ostentation. | 22:03 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | B.B. was. | 22:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But B.B. was, and J.B. halfway, too. | 22:06 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah, that's true because he had— | 22:09 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But W.S. was just, I guess, down to earth and just interested in making money. Anything he touched, returned the money. | 22:10 |
| Stacey Scales | So religion played a large factor? | 22:16 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Played a large factor. | 22:18 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 22:20 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Religion, uh-huh. | 22:20 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | B.B. also was a member of Collins Chapel. | 22:21 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | B.B. was a member of Collins Chapel, too. | 22:23 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I don't know about J.B.— | 22:25 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But B.B. was really the sport. | 22:26 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Very much the sport. | 22:27 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | He'd take a drink and he'd go gamble at the race hall. You go to Hot Springs every year and gamble on the races. | 22:28 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's the profile of somebody who would be hot for the ladies, right? | 22:34 |
| Stacey Scales | Did people ever talk about superstitions or things like that? | 22:37 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well Grandma, I heard Grandma Anna say— | 22:41 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Anna was superstitious. | 22:44 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I heard Grandma Anna say, that my Mother's Mother, that some Black woman lived one of houses back there, wanted to borrow her hoe or her rake. And so she let her have it. And so Grandma said, "Well, I need it back." "Well, I can't bring it back till after 4:00, because it's bad luck." Grandma say, "Hells. If White folks selling them all the time, what the hell are you talking about?" (laughs) | 22:45 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And then, Grandma Anna had a plumber and a man used to build a dollhouse for me in the back, Mr. Ben. And Mr. Ben's wife would go down to New Orleans every year to get a "hand," that's in quotation marks. That's like some type of a talisman. | 23:07 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 23:23 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And Mr. Ben thought that she'd had him fixed. (laughs) I heard Grandma Anna tell about that. Yeah. Black people were very much into that. But Grandma Anna wasn't like that. Yeah. She said, "Because hells, White man's selling hoes all the time and rakes. And people bringing them back." (laughs) | 23:24 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Now Grandma Anna was the one that was a storyteller, right? That's who you really should have. But she died. | 23:38 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. She drank a little hot toddy every day. She said it would help her because she was fat. Her standard weight was 253 pounds. She said she'd take a little orange juice and gin, said that would be an eye-opener. And some of Doctor's buddies, Dr. Ross, liked the way Grandma Anna talked, and laughed, and everything. And she'd sit on the porch all the time when we lived over there at 100 West Sasoda. And Dr. Ross would come by making house calls. And Grandma would say, "Go there and get that gin and that orange juice and give Dr. Ross a glass." | 23:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | The bad part about it was— | 24:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And she drank beer, but she liked to put it in a number 210 can that you'd take the label off and put ice in there. She'd eat cheese sandwich. And I'd bring her to beer out on the porch. And sometimes she'd smoke a cigar. Grandma Anna was a car. | 24:18 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She tried to see, what happened is, that's why it was so terrible for my Auntie. Her mother and husband died in one year. So she just got to be alone. He died in '58 and she died in '57. So it was just a terrible thing. | 24:31 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | But the thing about Grandma Anna, which was bad, is I told her, now see, my Auntie outlived her mother. Her mother died when she was 70. And I told her, her mother, just— | 24:46 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well, see, her mother was a Louisiana cook and she cooked all this fat and stuff. She was about my mother's size or larger, except she was taller. And my Auntie had W.S. to go over there and tell her mother that she shouldn't be eating like that. She had high blood pressure. She would drink beer every day. And you know, "Right now, that is against you." | 24:56 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. | 25:14 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | "You're just killing yourself." She didn't care. | 25:14 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They didn't care. | 25:17 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She wanted to do [indistinct 00:25:18]. | 25:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh listen, do you want my date of birth and Linda's date of birth? Or that's not necessary, huh? | 25:18 |
| Stacey Scales | Sure, yes. I have some forms to fill out at the end. | 25:22 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, my date of birth is June 25th, 1926. | 25:25 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 25:30 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And Linda's name is Linda Michelle Murphy. L-I-N-D-A M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E Murphy. And she was born— | 25:33 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I'll tell him. | 25:40 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | All right. | 25:40 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You have to have the year? | 25:41 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yes, Linda. | 25:43 |
| Stacey Scales | Preferably. | 25:43 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well, all right. Well, I told you I look about 10 years younger than I really am. | 25:45 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well just go on and give the age. | 25:48 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | September 28th, 1956. | 25:49 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 25:51 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And these flies are kind, some mosquitoes, I don't know what they are. How long will you be in Memphis, Mr. Stacey? | 26:01 |
| Stacey Scales | About three weeks. | 26:09 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Oh, be here three weeks? | 26:11 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | The only thing I can tell you, like I told you over the phone, which now, this is what my Auntie said. I did not actually experience it firsthand. I don't know how you would explain that. But, you see, when I first came here, she had inquired about St Agnes, which is where I eventually went to high school. But see, St. Agnes, as I tried to explain to you is a, well, the part I went to, which is a high school, is a college preparatory school for girls, Catholic, you know, I mean— | 26:12 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | An exclusive school. | 26:35 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Exclusive school. | 26:35 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | The highest school— | 26:36 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | One of those kind academies like that. But the thing of it is, St. Agnes is K through 12. And so she tried to get me in there when I first came here in '65. I was in the middle half of the third grade. But she said that the nuns said they weren't against it, but that the parents were against having Negroes there. Now I don't know that myself. I mean I was only eight years old at the time. Now that's what she told me, you understand? | 26:37 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. | 26:59 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | So that would be the only thing. Yeah, it's interesting because, let's see, when I was there, which was, what is it, four years later, strangely enough, I didn't have any trouble. | 26:59 |
| Stacey Scales | Yeah? | 27:13 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Was just all right. | 27:13 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah, some of those people are some of my closest friends. I never had any trouble. There was another girl, have you watched any of our news so far in Memphis? | 27:13 |
| Stacey Scales | Not recently. | 27:19 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well, if you look at Channel 5 news, it comes on a 5:00 on Channel 5, that's our NBC affiliate here, WMC, there's this guy who does the sports named Jarvis Greer. His sister is who I went to school with at St. Agnes. | 27:20 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 27:31 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | The two of us were the first Blacks at St. Agnes, in like 150 years. Ever. Ever. | 27:32 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They never had the Blacks in there for 150 years. | 27:36 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | You would think to yourself that there would be some kind of problem, wouldn't you? You were just offhand think that there would. | 27:39 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But they were lovely. They were wealthy girls. They were very lovely to Linda. | 27:44 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | They were very nice. | 27:47 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She'd go out to their homes, and spend the night, and everything. | 27:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | They were very, very nice. As a matter of fact, I ended up being president of one of the organizations. I was on the student council senior year. | 27:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And you were head of the Sodality. | 27:55 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I was Prefect of Sodality. You know what a Sodality is? A Sodality is a Catholic organization. We did charitable works. We went on retreats down to [indistinct 00:28:07], Arkansas. We had a Mission Monday where I would have all the various grades of freshmen through senior collect money. And I made it a little contest, and tell them how much per person, and who would win that week. And we did mainly charitable kind of things. And I was president. | 27:59 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I'm sure you, you about that. All the presidents of organizations are on the student council senior year. And I was president, one of the only [indistinct 00:28:27]. It was a wonderful experience. Very hard school, very hard. They're tradition-oriented. Very heavy. Very heavy. It was bizarre, because I know my Auntie and my Father, one of the things they have is Father-daughter Banquet. And my Father came to that. He was old and Black. | 28:21 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | What did he tell me when I first went there? He took a tour of the school with me right before I entered it. What did he tell me? It was like a fly in buttermilk. (laughs) That's what he said. And my Auntie, senior year, seniors have what's called a Rose Ceremony, where the mothers, well my Auntie in this case, come and all your mothers come, and all the senior class, and you give your mother a rose. Each senior gives their mother a rose. You call it the Rose Ceremony. They're very, very tradition-oriented. They have several ceremonies. It's just all the time. It was very hard school. | 28:47 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well I know one thing— | 29:22 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Very hear. | 29:23 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —when we took a cruise down to Curaçao, Aruba, and Puerto Rico, and so forth— | 29:23 |
| Stacey Scales | When did you do that? | 29:27 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —in 1969, we took film on the boat, the Santa Rosa. It was a Peruvian ship, at the WR Grace's ship. And when Linda got back, they were supposed to produce a movie in her second year humanities class. So Linda had to write the script. So she used the footage— | 29:28 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I did. | 29:47 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —that she'd taken on board ship. | 29:48 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That teacher [indistinct 00:29:50]. | 29:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | But worked out very nicely. And then, when she first started there, she'd only been there about one day and they demanded that a term paper, research paper, be done that Friday or that Monday. So I had to help Linda show her how to do it because she was just a freshman, and demanded that that first week. It's very hard school. | 29:50 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | It's a very hard school. | 30:08 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yes, it was. | 30:09 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I'm trying to think the classics, Machiavelli, and like that. | 30:09 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | We had all that, to read all— | 30:18 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | The great books. | 30:18 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | All the great books. That's right. It was very grueling. But they were nice to us. | 30:18 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 30:24 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And I also went to Southwestern. This is on 2000 North Parkway, it's called Rhodes College now. Have you passed by that? | 30:25 |
| Stacey Scales | I believe so. | 30:31 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I went to school there. And I was one of the few Blacks. They had a BSA, Black Student Association there. There were only a very few Blacks there at the time. And I went there in '74. | 30:32 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And they had not accepted Black students there in the 50s at all, I don't believe. | 30:39 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No, I don't think so. | 30:43 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | What were you about to say? | 30:44 |
| Stacey Scales | I just wanted to ask, did you all both have higher education? | 30:45 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yes. | 30:49 |
| Stacey Scales | Did you know parents or grandparents? | 30:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, no. I think my Grandma Anna went to about the fifth grade. And my Father's Mother went to about the second or third grade. But Auntie had high school, and some college work, and so forth. | 30:51 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | My Auntie paid for her education. | 31:02 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And my Aunt paid for my education at the University of Chicago. Wasn't that lovely? | 31:04 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She did. | 31:10 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. W.S. Martin's wife? | 31:10 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's it! | 31:10 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, Eva. | 31:11 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Martin. | 31:11 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Eva. Eva. Uh-huh. | 31:11 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | W.S. Martin. | 31:11 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 31:11 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She was a beautiful woman. | 31:11 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I wish you could have met her. | 31:16 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yes, indeed. | 31:18 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | It was just such a shock. | 31:19 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It's such a shock to us. | 31:21 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She was doing all right. | 31:22 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Linda helped her live to be 90 years old because if she hadn't had that constant care, she probably would've died in the 80s. | 31:22 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 31:28 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So that gives you something to go on, doesn't it? | 31:30 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. Right. Thanks a lot. Appreciate you all. | 31:32 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Did you see the thing here? | 31:34 |
| Stacey Scales | Mm-hmm. | 31:35 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah, I gave him one of those. | 31:36 |
| Stacey Scales | Yeah. | 31:36 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Don't you have one of those? | 31:37 |
| Stacey Scales | Yeah. | 31:38 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | [indistinct 00:31:41] And they could not get accommodations. And that was great. Linda can tell a little bit about it. | 31:40 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Let me talk. This is what I want you to do. I want to give you the names of these players. I want you to interview them. Because all we can tell you is from the owner's perspective. But these people can tell you what it was like as a Black baseball player. Have you interviewed any Black baseball players? | 31:45 |
| Stacey Scales | Not yet. | 31:56 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well, that's what you need to do. That's what you need to do. Now, there's Marlon Carter. No, Marlon's dead! | 31:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Marlon's dead. | 32:03 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | So Marlon's dead. | 32:04 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Verdell— | 32:04 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Verdell Mathis. | 32:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Verdell is in Memphis, isn't he? | 32:07 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah. I'll have to find his number. Verdell Mathis. M-A-T-H-I-S-. And then there's Joe Scott. J-O-E-S-C-O-T-T. And— | 32:08 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | It's Scott. | 32:17 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And Frank Pearson. Now all of those were ball players with the Red Sox. And they can tell you, they were relating— | 32:18 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Look, let me tell you what they did. At the reunion, which I thought was a neat idea, these people at Memphis State had, it was so wonderful. They had them coming in like you would be those, they called it the starting lineup, like the beginning of a baseball game. | 32:24 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. | 32:37 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And you had the players come in one by one. They had them come in one by one, escorted by their faculty, they were so sweet to them. And after they sat down, this man from Memphis State, this professor, had each Red Sox player to come up to the microphone individually and tell their recollections of being a Red Sox player. And a lot of them were talking about how they were discriminated against and the segregation, yeah. | 32:38 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Public accommodations. | 32:58 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Now, one of them was talking about how they went with the bus or something, and this man wouldn't give them gas, that they had to go far, somewhere else because they were Black. And they said they weren't going anywhere because they were hot and tired. | 33:00 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Anyway, this is, I think, the most profound thing of all. This Buck O'Neil, you can see here, gave the keynote address. This was after they gave their individual recollections. And he said this was at the Fogelman Executive Center at Memphis State. This was a really big kind of auditorium. That's what they had—He said it was so strange for him to be sitting, so standing up there talking, he said, "The only way I could have been up here 30 or 40 years ago is with a broom in my hand." | 33:10 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That's right. Yeah. Things are so different now. | 33:36 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | They're so different. And they treated him so unreal because most of these people that are involved with this thing, they're still involved with the documentary, are White people, and they are nuts for this guy! | 33:39 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | They're wild over this baseball. | 33:47 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Wild over it. We went to his office, he has all these things on the Red Sox. This is incredible. | 33:49 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | How did the Red Sox, how would they do their bookings, and how would they deal with discrimination? Well B.B. helped us, B.B. helped to make the bookings and so forth. | 33:52 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | B.B. Martin, General Manager. | 34:03 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | The General Manager. And they'd go all to Texas and all through these southern states up Chicago, too, Kansas City, all around. | 34:04 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Now they had a White fella, excuse me, they had a White fella to do their— | 34:13 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Public relation. | 34:16 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | [indistinct 00:34:18] from New York. His name was Matty Brescia, but he died. | 34:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | B-R-E-S-C-I-A. Matty Brescia. He was very nice. | 34:19 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. | 34:22 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And he followed up Doc. And actually, the Whites who were around Doc were kind of subservient to him. They kind of looked up to him like a hero because he was so successful. | 34:22 |
| Stacey Scales | Did any of the players or the owners talk about discrimination as they traveled? Did they come back to share— | 34:31 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Well, that's what they were talking about. | 34:39 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's what they're talking about. | 34:40 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That's what they were talking about, how they were discriminated when they'd go on the bus. | 34:41 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | That's why I want you to talk to them. | 34:43 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Talk to some of the players, | 34:43 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Terrible things. | 34:45 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 34:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Really were. | 34:45 |
| Stacey Scales | Would let 'em sell— | 34:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And this Michael O'Neil, he was relating something, I think, with Satchel Paige or something. He had a nice long talk. And a lot of these players, let me tell you, which is not too bad, they're reaping a lot of rewards now from being in the Negro Leagues, evidently, because I didn't know until I talked to a couple of players a couple of years ago, they go around to various card shows. There is a big demand, evidently— | 34:45 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | For Black baseball now. | 35:07 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | —for Black Baseball. | 35:08 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Knowledge of it. | 35:10 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | It's very popular. Nostalgia and stuff like that. And they say they go to these card shows, and people pay them money for autographs and stuff. | 35:10 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And let me tell you what Memphis State did, it was the sweetest thing. So you can see all these events, by the way, Memphis State, the reunion and exhibit were all free to the public. What they had, this was the only thing that was not free, they had a deal with all these players. This was the next day, in fact, after the 25th, 24th, on Saturday, they have all the players come up to one of their rooms in one of their buildings at University of Memphis. And they would have the public to come. And they would sign autographs, I don't know whether it would be baseballs or whatever they were signing. And I think they charged them $30 for all the players signing. And all the money went to the players. None to the University of Memphis. | 35:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That was lovely. They did one for them. | 35:55 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Isn't that nice? | 35:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Because the players are all old now, 70, and 80s, and 90. | 35:57 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | They're all old. | 35:59 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. | 36:00 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And matter of fact, one of them, Double Duty Radcliffe is 92 years old. Oh, let me tell you wife this. I asked him, he's in a wheelchair and had a White nurse pushing in that night. And so they asked him, "Well Double Duty, what's the secret, to your long life?" He said, "Women between the ages of 18 and 23." | 36:01 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So that gives you something to go on, doesn't it? | 36:13 |
| Stacey Scales | Yes. It does. | 36:22 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | These would be some wonderful men for you to— | 36:23 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Interview. | 36:25 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Because they could tell you, especially if you have not talked to other, they have specific things that nobody else would have to say, being they would be on the road and stuff. And they just ran into something terrible. Just terrible. Probably much worse, I guess, maybe than the average person just living living like you— | 36:26 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And I want to ask Mr. Stacey— | 36:45 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | —they were going place to place. | 36:46 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | —when I was on the campus of University of Chicago, there was a fellow out there named Eugene Hutchins, Jr. And Eugene Hutchins was from Gary. And this boy was supposed to go to Paris to study economics, when he came out of the college. I was in the college, university, before I went on for the masters and all. And one day, I think his father was in the numbers racket, Policy, and had a restaurant over there, Eugene Hutchins, they call him Buddy Hutchins in Gary. | 36:47 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And so, soon as his father got out of the car, this White man said, "Are you Buddy?" He said, "Yes." And he shot him down just like a dog with a machine gun. It was a mafia, you know. | 37:11 |
| Stacey Scales | Oh, no. | 37:21 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Yeah. I didn't know, probably before your time. | 37:21 |
| Stacey Scales | Probably so. But man, that's- | 37:24 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That was rough, wasn't it? | 37:26 |
| Stacey Scales | Very much so. | 37:27 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | So it affected the boy. So he never did go over to Paris. But last time I was in Gary for a funeral, I called Eugene and he was working at one of the Century 21 offices. And he said that he was in real estate now. | 37:28 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 37:39 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Mm-hmm. | 37:39 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And let me tell you something else about my Auntie. Her mother was almost what you would call like a psychic woman. Well, she could tell people more stuff. She would have people, women come to us. I mean not, I'm not talking about as a— | 37:40 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Superstition. | 37:52 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | No, I'm not talking about as a living, these people, I'm just talking about— | 37:53 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | In general. | 37:56 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | —they would come in general. Yeah, like that. And they would be telling, "Tell me about something." "No, honey, you better not bury him," or something. And everything she said would come [indistinct 00:38:04] | 37:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Generally came out that way. | 38:04 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | [indistinct 00:38:06] was just the same way. Let me take you something. In '68 when Dr. King came here, do you know she told me, she said, "They going to kill him." | 38:05 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Right here in this town. Says there's a lot of prejudice here. And they sure did. | 38:12 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | She said, that's what happened. | 38:16 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | She certainly did. | 38:17 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | "They're going sure kill him." And it's just what they did. | 38:17 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Of course, I always maintain with Dr. King, that it's might have funny that a White man could shoot and not shoot anybody else on that balcony. | 38:21 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. | 38:28 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And I have a feeling, I'll go to my grave with it. I feel some of his own people tipped off that White man where he was. It'd be a inside job. | 38:28 |
| Stacey Scales | What type of things were leading up to that even before Dr. King came here? | 38:37 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | I don't know. Well, I wasn't here at the time, but they had that garbage strike or something like that. He came here, something about that. But there's just a lot of hatred among the races here. I understand. I hear there's a lot of divisiveness now. | 38:42 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Well that's what the documentary, you said, "Have you seen that At the River I Stand? | 38:55 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | That's what it's about. | 39:00 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Make sure you see it. That's what Steve Ross did. And it is a fine piece of documentary filmmaking, fine piece, that concentrates entirely on the garbage strike of '68. And it answers your question exactly. And it tells exactly what was happening at the time, in the country, in Memphis, a couple of days prior to that. And nobody else has ever given it. | 39:01 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And it talks about stuff that the news media did not print. Matter of fact, our Channel 10 aired that, repeated it, it's an hour documentary with, oh what's his name? Paul Winfield doing narration. It is wonderful. Evidently, the news media at the time, because I remember telling, this happened a couple of months ago that a lot of the stuff in there, it was news to me, and I was living here at the time, even though I was a little girl, I was telling him, "I don't remember this. I don't remember them saying." He said, "They didn't say it." He said, "That's just the point. The news media deliberately didn't say it." | 39:22 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | And this man, he is so neat because he has firsthand interviews, he has a lot of these interviews. interspersed. In other words, they're telling the story, not him. And it's so neat, because these are the same people that he has footage of back in '68. It's just absolutely remarkable. And it tells, and it explains that a lot of stuff that I did not know. I was actually educated about it. And I was here during the time and didn't know it. | 39:59 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | So what you're talking about, you said what led up to it, evidently from the documentary, there was a lot of unrest here. And evidently, what I didn't know, there was a segment of the community, I guess, of the younger ones who were more like, what do you call those people? More like on the militant level, like the Black Panthers? Evidently there was a divisiveness there in the Black community as the militant portion wanting to do things violently against King's position, which was non-violent. | 40:26 |
| Stacey Scales | Right. | 40:56 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Pacifist [indistinct 00:40:57]. | 40:56 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah. And those two things were finally [indistinct 00:41:05] | 40:57 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | Flying might low. Flying awful low. | 41:04 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | If you ever see that, please, it is so good. [indistinct 00:41:10] Registered Nurses Club. And it was a Black Registered Nurses Organization, because the Black nurses at the time were not allowed to enter the Tennessee Association of Registered Nurses. That's probably not its official title. She was one of the founders of the, it's called the Registered Nurses Club. It's basically a social organization, but they give scholarships to student nurses. | 41:11 |
| Stacey Scales | When was it founded? | 41:29 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I think in 1929. It's still going on, to this day. And, this is the most important thing, my Auntie was Treasurer of the club for 30 years. She did that in addition to everything else she did. | 41:30 |
| Margarette Evans Murphy | And they take yearly trips. They've been to Hawaii and various other places. | 41:43 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | Yeah. And the reason I say that is because, in other words, they have projects, yearly projects to raise money. I was their project in 1979. They sold tickets for people to come hear me sing. In other words, they made money off of me. They paid me to sing at a church, and I had an accompanist, and they raised a good bit of money. And they had the church just packed. They sold tickets. And that was in '79. See, I sang classical music, arias like that. | 41:46 |
| Stacey Scales | Okay. | 42:18 |
| Linda Michelle Murphy | I— | 42:18 |
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