H. Scott interview recording, 1995 August 08

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H. A. Scott, Sr.	My name is H.A. Scott, Sr. I live here in Yazoo City. I have lived here all of my life. I've called this home. Of course, I was away for school and away for the armed services. But other than that, basically this has been home for me here in Yazoo City.	0:05
Stacey Scales	What are your earliest memories growing up?	0:28
H. A. Scott, Sr.	I'm 71, so I grew up here in Yazoo City when there was just a few people living here, when I was real small. And we were basically a saw mill community. A couple of saw mills, no other industry. And of course, farming was all around us, but here in this city was based on that. And very little opportunity for minorities—for anybody for that matter, but particularly for minorities, because there was just nowhere to go, nothing to do, but to school, to the church. And that was just about it.	0:33
Stacey Scales	What did your parents do for a living?	1:15
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Well, when I was born here in Yazoo City, my parents were working at a sawmill establishment. My father was. My mother was working at an American Steam Laundry here in Yazoo City. It was, I guess the only laundry here that employed about 25 Black women. And I guess they took care of all of the laundry needs for the city. It was dry cleaning and the laundry needs, sheets, whatever.	1:18
Stacey Scales	Did your family ever talk about how they came along, in the hard times [indistinct 00:01:52]?	1:45
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Not too much. They had a unique situation there, in this regard. There were eight of us children and I guess the oldest children were really old enough for my parents. They were just kind of scattered out. They were four years between each one of them. So my parents were old people when I came along. My mother must have been about 44 and my father about 43, or something. So there was a big gap. We really didn't have too much conversation, because of the differentiation in the age. So most of my conversation was with brothers and sisters, and kids and that kind of thing. Plus the fact they worked long hours. When I say long hours, my dad had to be at work at 7:00 in the mornings, and he worked until 6:00. And this was six days a week. And my mother had to be at work at 7:30 in the mornings, except on Monday mornings. And this was six days a week, as a matter of fact, on Saturday it was 12:30, one o'clock before they ever got off at night.	1:52
Stacey Scales	How much were they getting paid to work [indistinct 00:03:06]—	3:03
H. A. Scott, Sr.	You wouldn't believe it. At that time. The saw mill job, I guess was the best paying job in the community. And my dad was probably making about $49 every two weeks. My mother worked for $12.50 a week, and they was all of these hours, from 7:30 until 6:00, every day until 12:30, one o'clock on Saturdays. So that was then though, that was the best job here.	3:07
Stacey Scales	Did your grandparents [indistinct 00:03:43]—	3:41
H. A. Scott, Sr.	I never knew grandparents and never really even discussed it, because as I said, my parents were old when I came along. So they had to—	3:42
Stacey Scales	I'm wondering, did they ever decide that they weren't going to work for those wages, or was that considered good money?	3:56
H. A. Scott, Sr.	That was the best job here during that time. Yeah, so it was hard work. But you either did that or you went to somebody's kitchen and cooked, or you worked at a service station or something like that, or you went to the field. So you didn't have much of a choice.	4:02
Stacey Scales	Did they ever talk about discrimination on their job?	4:20
H. A. Scott, Sr.	No, because discrimination was pretty much —it was a way of life then. It was accepted. We're talking about back in the early thirties and from that point on. And discrimination was just a way of —it was just pretty much accepted by everybody.	4:23
Stacey Scales	So when did you first realize that there was a difference in how—	4:47
H. A. Scott, Sr.	I first realized that at an early age, when I was small and we lived on the south end of town. And you know how they would call you boy, and you had to get out of their way and get back and stuff. But we would meddle them all the time. We didn't appreciate it. We couldn't do it nose to nose. But we'd get around a corner and holler and meddle and run, and that kind of thing. And of course where I lived, the neighborhood was kind of mixed, because I was on the very south end of town. And we all—the children had no problem. We grew up together and play and fight, bloody noses and that kind of thing. So I never was taught to think that I was inferior to them. I never had a thought like that in my life. Even though they were the majority, and had control of everything. It never was an idea in my mind that they were superior to me, because of that. Matter of fact, I always thought I was superior to them. They just had the upper hand.	4:48
Stacey Scales	So what made you feel that way?	5:51
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Well, by the contact that I had with them, playing every day with them—and during that time, they were just kind of dumb, the one that I had contact with. So how could I look up to somebody that didn't have as much sense as I thought I had.	5:54
Stacey Scales	So when you were young, what did you do for entertainment?	6:19
H. A. Scott, Sr.	We played, we had homemade wagons, we played ball on that end. We played hand tennis, we played all of the games that were available to us, mostly ball. And when we got a little bigger, basketball was all always available.	6:27
Stacey Scales	Did you go to school the nine months out of the year?	6:49
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yes, here and I started school early. I had bigger sisters and brothers and I started when I was four years old. Of course, I lived on one end of the town and the school was on the other end. We had to walk and that had me graduating at 17. And when I graduated, my classmates were 20, 21, 22. There were a few of us who were the right age. I think there were three others in the class that were 17, but the rest of them were 18, 19, 20, 21 and like that.	6:52
Stacey Scales	Why was it that different in [indistinct 00:07:31]?	7:30
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Because a lot of them came in from the rural. A lot of kids didn't have the opportunity to start school early. As I said, I started—I was a big old boy and I had sisters and brothers that I came to school with. So I actually started school at four years old. I had classmates who started school at eight and nine years old. So that put up, and made for the difference.	7:35
Stacey Scales	Were your parents educated here?	7:55
H. A. Scott, Sr.	No, my parents were not educated, to the extent that neither one of them had achieved a high school education. But my father was very gifted. He could handle numbers real well, better than my brothers and sisters, who would go off to college and come back for that matter. So for his formal education, no he didn't have it.	7:57
Stacey Scales	You said he worked in the sawmill?	8:22
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yes.	8:23
Stacey Scales	Did you all stay on your own land or did you—	8:26
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yes. My parents moved to town three or four years before I was born. Also, before I was born they purchased a house, that's our home house now. And my daughter lived in it until maybe a year ago. We rent it out now. But no, I never have paid rent a day in my life though. So I was fortunate to that, what you call—	8:29
Stacey Scales	Was that the norm? Would people own their land or did people [indistinct 00:08:56]?	8:55
H. A. Scott, Sr.	During that time, as I said, there were very few. We had a small community. For instance, they had a telephone book, and at that time my last name was Scott. There was one other person in the telephone book with the Scott. There were just two of us. Now there's a whole page not related, but most people rent it. Very few people own their own home. A lot of people in the rural owned the land. They didn't hold it, they don't own it now. But we did, minorities owned a lot of property in the rural area of Yazoo County. But across the years, it has kind of dwindled away from them.	8:56
Stacey Scales	How was that land lost [indistinct 00:09:51]?	9:49
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Well, I guess what happened was, it dates back to the wall, between the states. And of course, the Northern people won and they took a lot of the land and gave it to Black people. Of course, they just gave them the ground. No skills, no money, no anything else. And they have just gradually gotten it back. Because we didn't really have the wherewithal to hold it. We didn't have the lending institution to lend the money and we just couldn't hold it. So gradually across the years, they just about have it all back now.	9:53
Stacey Scales	Were there Black owned businesses here?	10:37
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yeah, we had a Black bank here at one time. Before my time, well I couldn't remember, but I read about it. And we had several Black businesses, but a lot of Black businesses just don't survive the years. If you have one that survived several years, then it's making history. Because most of us, small family owned businesses, you go in and you last a year, two years, three years if you're lucky and that kind of thing.	10:39
Stacey Scales	Do you remember any of those businesses?	11:05
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yes, I guess so. A couple that stands out in mind. One was—and it's a historical site, Washington Street Grocery it, I guess it outlasted the rest of the businesses. But there was a Milts, Cannons, a meat market and that Cannons Grocery and Banks Grocery, all the small neighborhood businesses, no downtown businesses. And during that time, they lasted well, but they just couldn't survive inflation and stuff.	11:10
Stacey Scales	Did people help each other back then?	11:44
H. A. Scott, Sr.	More so than now. Yeah, people kind of banded together and back then, a lot of Blacks traded with Blacks. They don't do it now. They go for the cheapest commodity. And of course, if you got a volume you can sell a little cheaper than if you don't have a volume. So that's where people wouldn't care what color you are. Now we don't have the same camaraderie, we don't have the same support system that we had, where minorities would support minorities, share with minorities and that kind of thing. Not anymore.	11:47
Stacey Scales	Did those Black businesses received heavy scrutiny from local Whites. Was it challenging owning the store?	12:26
H. A. Scott, Sr.	No, it was no challenge to them. Because as I said, it was just a little neighborhood. It never did really get into the mainstream. No downtown facilities, just out of line and in little neighborhoods and small. So it was really no threat or no challenge to the establishment.	12:35
Stacey Scales	Now, did you travel much when you were growing up there?	12:55
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Not when I was growing up, but after I had growing up I did a lot of traveling. I was in the armed services and had a tour of duty overseas in several countries. And then on my job, I worked with the school system. And I did a lot of traveling within the country, for meetings and that kind of thing.	13:02
Stacey Scales	Was it difficult back then, to maybe just take short trips, because of the gas stations not serving Blacks?	13:24
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Okay. Yes. I had a sister who was very large, that big to the extent that she wasn't going to—I have to get that because—I'm talking about a sister of mine and she was an active figure in the National Baptist Convention. She was the national chairman, whatever. And she always made all of the conventions, and she never would consider a bus or a train. We didn't fly then. We hadn't reached that level, but I always had to drive her across the country. So I've driven her to many places. New York, Philadelphia, Denver, San Francisco, Louisville. And did a lot of traveling. This was just a once a year thing in that regard. And it was a difficult then, because this was before the freeway and the interstate highways. All of the highways then, went right through the little towns and it was most difficult traveling then, because I'd pull up to a station for instance, and ask them about the restroom. Well, they didn't have any for Blacks.	13:34
H. A. Scott, Sr.	So then I'd just drive off without buying gas and go to where we could have some kind of [indistinct 00:14:59], because you didn't have it. If you wanted anything to eat you had to leave the highway and go back across the railroad, and it was just a difficult time. Not like it is now. It was most difficult. That wasn't just here in the South. That was all over.	14:54
Stacey Scales	So, was it easy to find those places that served Blacks?	15:16
H. A. Scott, Sr.	No. Well, when you found the street, you knew when you were on a street that was a Black street. But you lose so much time, leaving the highway, going over and getting waited on and then getting back to the highway, until you almost—everybody just packed their lunch or something and put it in the car.	15:21
Stacey Scales	What did those signs mean to you, with Colored and White on them?	15:39
H. A. Scott, Sr.	When I was in the Army, we were selected to go to Hampton Institute for some special training, and 12 of us graduated from that class, and we were going to Fort Seal, Oklahoma. This was during the World War II. And of course, we came to Cincinnati and we were supposed to pick up sleepers from there to Oklahoma. But when we got there, they were not going to give them to us. We were all Black. They said they just didn't have them. I can't remember where I was, down to the phone.	15:45
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:16:29]—	16:28
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Oh yeah, they were going to not give them to us and Cincinnati. And we said, "Well that's fine, man. We're just going to stay here until you get them." And we didn't leave, and we were delayed for about maybe an hour or two. And they finally got us out of there, gave us our sleeper. They didn't want to give them to us because we were Black but everybody but Cincinnati—when we got to Oklahoma City it was almost devastating. Now you're training to go and fight, and you see the big sign, Colored or White at the fountains, and even the waiting rooms were separate, and it was a tough pill to swallow. But you either had to swallow that pill, or swallow that pill. You didn't really have any other choice.	16:30
Stacey Scales	Being in the military, how did you feel about that, when you were serving this country?	17:15
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Oh, I really had mixed feelings. When I was in the military, it was not integrated then, We had all Black unit and we might have had one Black officer. Most of the officers now were White. And of course, some of them were kind of out of it. When I say out of it, you kind of pitied some of them. They were White and they were officers, but you had had to take orders from them. You had to holler, "Yes sir," to somebody you know that's inferior, but that was the Army. And I never had a developed a good feeling. The main reason was, I was in college, and I was 18 years old, sophomore in college. During the first semester, I came home for Christmas and the kids here were getting deferments. They were 18, but they were seniors in high school and they had written and gotten deferments to finished in another year.	17:23
H. A. Scott, Sr.	I hadn't received any kind of communications from them, but at school they would just call them, just like that. So I got the bright idea of going back and writing me a letter, asking for a deferment [indistinct 00:18:40] and failed. 18 years old, and they're trying to get out of high school and I'm 18 here. I am a sophomore in college. I know I can get one. Biggest mistake I ever made in my life, I wrote for that deferment, when I got back to school. And in three weeks, I was gone. I guess they had forgotten about me. But from that day on, I never did develop a good taste for the Army.	18:30
Stacey Scales	It was three weeks when you got back into high school, that something happened from the Army?	19:05
H. A. Scott, Sr.	No, when I went back to college from coming home for Christmas break, I wrote a letter, waiting until I got back to write, asking for a deferment. And about three weeks, I heard from them, gave them a call. And by March the 17th, which was right in the middle of the semester, they called, I left college and went to the Army. So that means that I lost a whole semester, because I didn't get a chance to stay there to finish it.	19:10
Stacey Scales	But yet high school students were able to?	19:41
H. A. Scott, Sr.	They were able to, yeah. We were the same age. But I started the, as I said and I was a couple years ahead of them in school. But that's the way it worked out. But it put a bad taste in my mouth for the Army. And later on, when I was out and had served my tour duty was back home, I served on the draft board. And you can know [indistinct 00:20:08] anybody who asked for a deferment, I voted for them. They didn't always win, but I just couldn't —	19:46
H. A. Scott, Sr.	And the other thing that happened is, when I was in the basic training, this was in Camp Lee, Virginia, the CO, the commanding officer called me in. He had looked at my IQ and my records and everything and said, "Well now, look with an IQ like you, you eligible for OCS, officers training school. So you need to get your credentials and we're going to get you in. Which means you have to have your birth certificates." I didn't have one. I had to send them back home and they had to get one, and letters of recommendation and that kind of thing. I got all that stuff in and then they said, "Well we're sorry, but they're cutting back on the school. You have to serve some as a non-com." Well, this was a double whammy. So you could imagine how I felt about the Army then. But I had a successful tour duty and—	20:17
Stacey Scales	Other Blacks that served with you, would you all stick together?	21:10
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yes. We'd stick together. And of course for instance, we went into town at Hampton, Virginia and lots of stuff and stuff at a little café, on the way back to the campus and asked for some service. We didn't get it. Someone said, Well, give me a glass of water." The guy gave us some water and then he took a glass back and let us see him break it.	21:16
H. A. Scott, Sr.	So we left and came up back to the campus. But the next night, we wrecked that place. We went back late that night and there was a—I don't know if you're familiar with Hampton Institute or not, but when you go to the little town you cross a bridge and then there's nothing between you and the dormitory is in. We went back and we played havoc with that place and then we hit it, and ran on back to the campus and got [indistinct 00:22:14] like nothing ever happened, but we just had to pay him off for the way he did us.	21:45
Stacey Scales	Did things like that happen often where you [indistinct 00:22:24]—	22:20
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Not very often, but this was during the '40s and you had Jim Crow all over this —for instance, when we were in Camp Lee, Virginia, we'd go into Washington some weekends pretty close, and if you were Black at this time, you flag a cab or check a cab, you flag from now on, they wouldn't stop for you. So it was just Jim Crow everywhere you went. But we lived through it.	22:24
Stacey Scales	Did you notice any differences between Hampton and here?	23:02
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Other than other places, you didn't know as much about them, because you were just there visiting, and you know that maybe the same thing existed. It was just perhaps a little bit more subtle or something like that. But after I was in the Army, I, as I said, did a lot of traveling to all parts of the country. And if you were in the northernmost point, to Boston, or if you were in the other southernmost point, you still had to realize that if you were a minority, you were a minority and a White was a White, it was the same thing. They just was not as outward and arrogant with it, maybe. But segregation was segregation. In Chicago, I had relatives there and I'd visit all the time. But there was some points in Chicago, that you wouldn't be caught after dark.	23:07
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Blacks didn't venture on the north side too much. In Oakland, California, now it's predominantly a Black town. There are some areas that you might not be caught in late at night, because they'll just do you in. So it's not the same as it was, but it still will be with us a long time.	24:07
Stacey Scales	Were there places that you couldn't go here?	24:31
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Oh, yes. There were plenty of places here that you couldn't go. For instance, there were some places that had a double side, two doors, one door for the Black and they'd wait on you on that side. There was a common place once you got inside but you were on your side, and they were on their side and the service area was in the middle. We had several places like that and then some places you just didn't go, period if you were Black.	24:36
Stacey Scales	So the service it would be like a buffet style?	25:05
H. A. Scott, Sr.	No uh-huh, not buffet. When I said a service, these little hamburger hotdog places like that, down the middle with stools on both sides and a door on both sides. So if you were Black and wanted a hotdog, wanted a hamburger, wanted whatever they had, you came in this door and you'd sit at this counter. And if you were White—you could see each other, you came in this door and you'd sit at that counter. But there was a space between you, where they had the stoves and the material merchandising, whatever. We had some like that. And of course we had some that were all Black, and we had some that were all White.	25:08
Stacey Scales	Were there sides of towns that you knew not to go on?	25:48
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Well, town was very much segregated. As I said, I lived on the very south end of town and all of the activity, the school activities was out on this end. The school was not far from where we are now. Maybe it was nine blocks down the street, the gym and whatever you had, you'd have to come across town. This had us going back through town at night, to get to our end of town. And sometimes when the officers would see you, they'd just have them some fun and scare you to death, and, "Where you niggers going? The last one around that corner, we'll fill his ass full of lead." Those kind of pranks. They never would shoot, but they'd have us running, like I don't know what, because we were young and actually scared. Then another time, we'd get around the corner on them, and holler and try to get back even with them.	25:53
Stacey Scales	The police would test you?	26:54
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yeah, and we'd get back at them when we could. Because they were walking men, and we'd catch a corner on them and we'd call them some of everything. They didn't have a chance to catch us. But when they'd see us going home at night, they just had them some fun with us.	26:57
Stacey Scales	What was the relationship of the Blacks here in Yazoo City, with the police?	27:19
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Well, very distant. It really wasn't any relationship. It was this master-servant type thing. They had that attitude. A lot of us had that attitude. Of course, we resented, it but they considered us, called us boys, uncles, nigger, whatever.	27:26
Stacey Scales	And if something happened, who would you go to?	27:43
H. A. Scott, Sr.	That's a good question. Who would you go to? You really had nobody to go to really, because what you lived in was a society that was controlled and dominated by Whites. And you were still considered as semi-slaves as somewhat inhuman, or as somewhat not accountable for anything that you do. And you were just looked down on by the powers that be. And you were just supposed to take it, and they would just try to humiliate you in every way that they could. And some people would ray up and fight back, and get away with it sometimes, but not very often, because—	27:53
Stacey Scales	They would use weapons? [indistinct 00:28:45]—	28:43
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Not weapons, but they've been known to police ray up somebody and they'd tear a fit on them. Of course, they'd leave or something like that, but they'd—	28:45
Stacey Scales	Leave town?	28:54
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yeah. With some Whites or whatever, a policeman or whatever. So it is a part timeframe in our lives that we are glad it's over, and we don't ever hope to get back that far again. But we still know that that particular part of it is over, but it ain't over yet, because we are not too far right now, from where we were then. Because it's still a White controlled society, they make the rules, we have to play by them. And when we learn the rules and get real close to knowing how to survive, they'll change them. They'll change the rules, because they make them all. And it's still a White dominated society all over this country I think.	28:55
Stacey Scales	Who did you look up to when you were growing up?	29:57
H. A. Scott, Sr.	I guess I looked up to my folk and there were other Blacks around. I can't put a name on them, but anybody who was more or less independent, anybody who would more or less try to maintain that independence, who wouldn't buy, who wouldn't admit to the fact, whether involuntary or not, that you are a master and I'm a slave. I just admire people who never succumbed to that, and who never let that get the better part of them, where you and Mr. Boss man. We had plenty then, we have plenty people now, who think that they know what's right and we don't. They'd rather listen to some of them, than some of us. And we had it then. I guess we've always had it. But I never have appreciated that kind of person. So I would look to those who knew his identity and who had pride and who had some self-esteem. Anybody like that gained a hell of my respect.	30:00
Stacey Scales	Were there local leaders here?	31:13
H. A. Scott, Sr.	We really didn't have, at that time too many local leaders. However, over time we had some people who came in and provided some leadership and some are still here now, who just really showed their nonacceptance of the system, and of how it is now. And we just had a change that. And was willing to go through any ends to get that change. We had a person who didn't live here, the name of Rudy Shields, he came in from somewhere else, but he kind of organized the community, with the help of people who were here, and staged the boycott, a pretty long and successful boycott. And I guess it represented the biggest abrupt change that we've had in this community, because from that day on, things have not really been the same on the surface.	31:15
Stacey Scales	So that boycott, was that the boycott of 1969?	32:13
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yes.	32:36
Stacey Scales	And let me see now. What were your early experiences on voting or politics?	32:36
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Well, I was, I guess fortunate in a way, because I was in the school system. And by so being I moved out to an outer line area, out at Holly Bluff, principal of the school out there. And of course, I had to stay on the campus. So out there, when it came to voting for anything local, we really were not a threat, because not too many of us were going to participate. So never had a problem with voting. As a matter of fact, we'd help man the voting stations and that kind of thing. But it was difficult to get Black people involved. And it still is, to actually realize the importance of the vote. This is election day here. We have a precinct out there, you wouldn't know it. This is going to be a terrible turnout, in terms of the number of people coming to vote.	32:41
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Even though we got some important races, both at the local and at the state level, but minorities. And this is a predominantly Black ward. And it's the biggest precinct that we have in the county. We have over 2000 people in this precinct. You won't know that if you look at the total number of people that voted today, because there has been very, very little activity. We still have not reached the point where we can turn out a vote. In our state, we have a Republican governor for the first time in 100 years, and he's ultra conservative. And you can't be ultraconservative unless you have a resentment and a disregard for minorities. Because it is their thinking that we are leeches, that they have to take their hard earned money to support us. And they want to cut that out.	33:30
H. A. Scott, Sr.	And he is standing governor now. And of course come November, we'll have a Democrat running against him. But unless we can turn out an overwhelming Black majority to go to the polls, Black vote, this Republican is going to win again, and we'll have four more years of it. And with the threat of block grant and turning everything over to the states, this is going to set us back farther and farther. And we know this, but we still will not take the time to go out to vote, to try to change things. So we are not really too much further than we were back there then. That's sad, but that's the state of affairs that we were in.	34:37
Stacey Scales	Why do you think it is different now than then?	35:22
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Apathy. People think well—they're referring to the powers that be going to do what they want anyway. My one vote does not count. And I guess, minorities have just been oppressed and they don't see any role models, and they don't see many success stories. And they just think that they don't have any incentive. They think that it's no way out, regardless of what we do, we still going to be in this same boat and they don't bother to go and cast that ballot. Particularly the younger minority. The age group from 18 to 24 is the poorest percentage-wise, voting age group that we have. Less than 10% of them, actually go to the polls on election day. And every other age group is better than that.	35:27
Stacey Scales	And what was the role of the church, when you were growing up?	36:20
H. A. Scott, Sr.	I guess we talk about that now in our church. Meaning that one time, the Black church was the only place, where Blacks really had some freedoms to make some decisions and to perhaps try to change things, and to meet and discuss things openly. Nowhere else we had that you could do that. And the Black churches played a major role in the '60s and the '70s, because it was a medium that you could use. It was a tool, it was an avenue that you could use. You had no other avenue open to you, other than the streets. But that Black church is being threatened now, because as I said, society is controlled by the powers that be. And they make all decisions, in all areas, but in the church. And it seems like they're making a move now to even take that over.	36:29
H. A. Scott, Sr.	They want to absorb the Black church into their churches, not on a mixed basis, but they literally want to take it over. And when they do, then they will have full control, full power. Minorities would've nowhere that they can go and ask to openly discuss things, without them being in control of it.	37:35
Stacey Scales	So when you were younger, was that where you got your sense of values from, the church?	38:04
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Not necessarily the church, but from the school and the church and just the associations that I had. And being, I guess fortunate enough to have the opportunity to go to school at an early age. For instance, I finished in the largest class at that time, that had been here for our school. We had 49 seniors to graduate —	38:11
H. A. Scott, Sr.	She's in Greenville so she got to go vote. She got to seven o'clock to do that. Anyway, by being able to have an exposure at an early age, I guess helped to make a lot of determinations, a mindset that I kind of developed. And I was kind of proud of that. And of course my parents, particularly my father, was a validating figure. He didn't consider himself self second class to anybody. And as a result, I didn't either.	38:45
Stacey Scales	Who made the decisions in your family, and who provided the discipline with you?	39:24
H. A. Scott, Sr.	My father was a very strict disciplinarian. So he was the one who provided that. And he did it so that all he had to do was speak and that was it. Because we know what would happen if he had to, but he was a strict disciplinarian. After he passed, I guess the leadership in the family kind of was handed down to me. And there were eight of us, I was next to the youngest. But anything that happened to anybody, they would always want my input, and it would end up being my decision on whatever was going to happen. Not necessarily about discipline, but whatever happened in the family, whether it was a catastrophe or whatever. I kind of assumed a leadership role, for some reason.	39:33
Stacey Scales	In those times known as Jim Crow, what did it mean to be a Black man? What did Black manhood mean?	40:25
H. A. Scott, Sr.	They tried to make that word meaningless in our society, Black manhood. So far as they were concerned, there was no such animal as a Black man, you always was a boy. You'd be 60, 70 years old and they would either call you boy, or they would call you uncle. When I came along in the school system, and had to deal with them, they wouldn't say uncle. They wouldn't say boy, nor would they say Mr. It was always professor, I'd get my male, all the male professor, they didn't mind saying professor, but they were not going to use the word Mr. There's only been recently since they began to use that word. Now they wear it out. But during that time, there wasn't no such thing as a Black Mr. You were a boy, regardless of how you could —This guy could be 20 years old and you could be 80, you still were a boy. And he was a man. Down on the end of town where I lived, there was a little boy. They had a little neighborhood store for Whites there.	40:34
H. A. Scott, Sr.	And we were small and we'd play and fight and he got up to be 12 or 13 years old. And I was same age, 12 or 13. And we'd always run to the store for a —My mother would send us for a Coca-Cola, or something, nickel and dime stuff. And his daddy wanted me to call him Mr. And I'd have died first. So what happened is, I just started walking by and walking two blocks further to a store. Because my parents told me just not to go in there, but I wasn't about to call a little old boy, Mr. I just couldn't see that. But that's what they wanted. So I just walked by there and walked onto another store, and get what I needed, and come on back by there and come on home. But that's the way it was with them.	41:48
Stacey Scales	Were their relationships between White men and Black women?	42:40
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Very much so. In some areas of town. And it was common to —there was an area here that they called the gray line. And what it was, was just about nine or 10 shotgun houses in a line right by the railroad. And Whites were in and out of there, day and night. And of course every once in a while, you'd see a Black that was killed out on the railroad, or something. And everybody would know why, and it was because of that relationship and stuff. But nothing was ever done about it. It was just another Black guy, that found a man dead. And that was the end of it. So some Whites even had Blacks staying with them, not outright, but as their cook, as their something, or working for them.	42:42
H. A. Scott, Sr.	And we had a lot of Whites who had children by Blacks. Some of them would own them and some wouldn't. But nevertheless, that fact existed. And there were some Whites who had their children and police and everybody else knew not to mess with them, because they were his children. So they lived and they were kind of in the middle, because some Blacks didn't like them, because of that. The Whites didn't, but that was the society.	43:36
Stacey Scales	So did a Black man say something?	44:10
H. A. Scott, Sr.	No, not unless he wanted to be found somewhere. Because nobody was going to come to his rescue. Even if a White didn't like what went on, he knew to keep quiet and to keep his mouth shut, and not say anything.	44:12
Stacey Scales	Did Blacks ever have ways of getting out of situations like that?	44:30
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Not really. The only recourse they had was to leave, and which a lot of them did. We had a lot of out migration, during that time. Some was because of situations like that. Some Blacks would be caught with some of the White girls, but they would've to leave in a hurry and that kind of thing.	44:34
Stacey Scales	When those Blacks went up north and they would come back, did people look at them differently?	44:56
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Not really, because those who left in those circumstances didn't come back in a long, long time. They were going to come back again next year, or something like that. So no, not really.	45:01
Stacey Scales	What about those Blacks that just went up and they weren't running away, but they were [indistinct 00:45:19]—	45:15
H. A. Scott, Sr.	What happened is, they went and they went, because there was really —as we said earlier, nothing here for them to do. They couldn't make a decent living here. So they left to make a better living, and they just stayed. And many of them now after retirement, are relocating back here, as soon as they get to retirement age, they'll come back home. Because they think, and I agree that living conditions are better, that the dollar goes much further, and those kind of things. So they come back, the climbing is better, everything is better I think.	45:20
Stacey Scales	Did that pose a problem, when they would come back in different clothes and big cars [indistinct 00:46:06]?	45:58
H. A. Scott, Sr.	During that time it would, because they would look at your tag, and if you head out of state yeah, you had a problem. They were going to mill you, they were going to pull you over. But the same thing existed. If you had a Mississippi tag, and went North, and went to Chicago, they were going to pull you over, and give you a ticket for something. I've been keeping up with traffic and I've gotten pulled over more than once, and it's because of the tag. And they would tell you at that time, give me $2 or go downtown. And $2 wasn't any money. But if you go downtown, it wasn't going to be too much more than that, but you going to spend two or three days, and you just there for a day or two. So that existed both ways, there and here too.	46:11
Stacey Scales	So in the north and in the south?	46:50
H. A. Scott, Sr.	Yeah, but in —	46:51

H.A. Scott, Sr.	Pull you over because of your tag, and I guess it was because of race too, because I doubt that they pulled Whites over. But here, if you had an out-of-state tag and you were Black, you just had to be careful.	0:01
Stacey Scales	From your experiences back then, what do you think that historians should put focus on as far as the Jim Crow times? What do you think has been neglected based on your experiences?	0:21
H.A. Scott, Sr.	I think if I was going to be a historian, what I would try to emphasize is this. Black people, and I won't speak of other minorities, but the same thing I guess would go true for them, have had a most difficult time during and since the development of this country. They have been oppressed. I guess they have been the last ones to be hired and the first ones to be fired. They have been deliberately manipulated to be kept out of the mainstream. They have not been able to accumulate any wealth or any technology, any building capacities.	0:34
H.A. Scott, Sr.	So far as communities are concerned, the majority have successfully maintained the second-class citizen status for minorities. It would appear that this would make minorities mad enough not to ever be complacent, but to want to change the system. That would want to make them want to look at what has happened, and to assure that it will never happen again. To look at the direction that we are going now. Look at the predictions—yes? Are we back on? It seems like Blacks could take a look at the predictions that have been made about us, which says that by the year 2000, the Black male will either be incarcerated, 70% of the Black male will either be incarcerated, on dope, or dead.	1:35
H.A. Scott, Sr.	From the way things are going, it seems like we are headed there, and Blacks are just complacent to the extent that we won't try to make changes. We won't try to head that off. We won't try to better ourselves. We won't try to be productive instead of consumers. We are making no headway in that direction. And if I was a historian, I would try to emphasize what we've gone through, what others have sacrificed, and how little we are doing now to live up to what others have done before us. We're just turning our backs on it and letting the clock start to go backwards.	2:49
Stacey Scales	I really appreciate talking to you. I enjoy it a whole lot. Thank you.	3:32
H.A. Scott, Sr.	All right.	3:36

Item Info

Title:

H. Scott interview recording, 1995 August 08

Date:

August 8, 1995

Creator:

Scott, H. A.

Contributor:

Scales, Mausiki Stacey

Description:

Name: H. A. Scott; Date of birth: 1924-04-22; Place of birth: Yazoo Co., MS; Occupation(s): housing manager; Residence: Yazoo City, MS
Informant ID: 1171; Interviewed by: Stacey Scales.

Occupation:

Housing manager

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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RL00170-CS-0787
13403960-d436-481d-b5a5-7486846aabf8
behindtheveil
65bdfcd2-a7e6-4e8c-b8a3-44c457d59770
ark:/87924/r4qv3qc6v
65bdfcd2-a7e6-4e8c-b8a3-44c457d59770

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H. Scott interview recording, 1995 August 08

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1. H. Scott administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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H. Scott interview recording, 1995 August 08

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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