Olivia Anderson (primary interviewee) and Henry Anderson interview recording, 1994 June 17

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Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Anderson, can you tell me when you were born and a little bit about the community that you originally grew up in?	0:03
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	I was born in Marengo County, April the 7, 1907. I was raised, fact is, I was raised up by grandparents, with my grandparents. See, my mother, she didn't never get married to no man. She just, you know, birthed us children down with it. We were raised on that particular place, children raised up under my grandparents. We farmed. When we got up, our parents did, we farmed, and went to school. I didn't go to finish school. We were just blessed. The Lord blessed us. We had a farm, my grandparents did. We were raised up we had to do like they said to do. We had to mind. We wasn't like these children nowadays. If our grandparents told us to do a thing, whatever they tell us to do, we had to do it. Then we would get the switch on us, you see.	0:15
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	After I got up someday, my granddaddy died. My grandmama died. My mother then, we moved to Dallas County. That's where I was raised, finished raised up. I didn't finish school. I just went to school. We learned our ABCs that the old folks had a word, but we were raised on the farm. We had cows and goats and hogs and everything like that. Yet and still, we were obedient to our parents.	1:59
Henry Anderson	Not only your parents.	2:47
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	No, not only parents. The lady across the street over there. She had the opportunity. She could whup me if I did wrong just like if I was hers. My parents and grandparents, they didn't say nothing about it. They'd say, "Well, you were doing wrong. That's the reason that she whupped you."	2:53
Paul Ortiz	It sounds like your grandparents were a very important part of your life and your upbringing.	3:12
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Right.	3:18
Paul Ortiz	Can you tell me a little bit more about your grandparents, maybe the stories they told you?	3:20
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	I'm going to be honest with you. I can't get it all. The best I can, but anyway, my grandparents, they raised us up and they sent us to school. We went to school. I didn't get no farther than the seventh grade. I was a big girl then, and then my grandparents left from down in the country and come to Selma, and that's where I stayed then with them and with my mother. My mother came from Marengo County to Selma.	3:31
Henry Anderson	Dallas County.	4:20
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Dallas County.	4:21
Henry Anderson	Me and her were raised up in the same neighborhood, maybe two or three miles apart, all in Marengo County. We went to school together. My old folks, she had her grandparents raise her. I'm saying my grandparents raised me, but my mother and my dad, they separated from me when I was around about six or seven, five or six years old. That means my grandparents raised me. Without having the knowledge of any sisters and brothers, I don't have that, but the old folks back there.	4:25
Henry Anderson	When they say, "Gee," they didn't mean "haw," it meant for you to gee. That means, when I use that word, it meant for you to say what they say to do. Them old people, we had, I would say, parents, your birth parents is all right. You've got them, but you've got all elder people that around you is your parents in a way that when they see you doing wrong, they check on you and if you need whupping, they'll whup you.	5:25
Henry Anderson	That ain't Momma. That's not birth Momma. That's Momma out there helping Momma at home to raise you. If I went home to my Momma and said they whupped me, then she's going to say, "You needed it. You needed it." In these days and times, we can't do that now. They're liable to blow your head off. Our parents, at that time, they struggled. They had lived off nothing, but they had to do the best they could.	6:15
Henry Anderson	As you just said, segregation was segregation. The Black man or the Black family had a hard way to go in the South. You had to struggle, but through it all, God brought us, this generation until now. We went to school together.	7:07
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember the name? Was the school part of the church, or was it a separate school?	7:56
Henry Anderson	Oh, different. They kept the school different from the church. I went to church and I went to school. The church wasn't a school and the school wasn't a church. This was a community school. Now, I don't know what. All I know is they're a public school.	8:05
Paul Ortiz	What did you think about the teachers in that school?	8:33
Henry Anderson	The teachers, at that time, were teachers. They whupped you and you didn't go home and tell Momma, "The teacher whupped me," and Momma come back to the school with a shotgun or a pistol or a knife or something to whup the teacher. I got a whupping, and Momma just said I needed it.	8:36
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Anderson, I wonder your experience in school. What did you think of the teachers and what were they teaching?	9:04
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	ABCs of the letters. We had the ABCs and how to spell correct, different words correct. Then our figuring.	9:17
Henry Anderson	Mathematics.	9:35
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Mathematics, that's what I was trying to say. We had to learn that. If we didn't, we just hadn't finished. We wouldn't get no record for it. We didn't finish, but yet and still, come on. Okay, sugar.	9:42
Paul Ortiz	Another question I wanted to ask was, how many months out of the year did you go to school?	10:02
Henry Anderson	Three.	10:11
Paul Ortiz	You went to school for three months?	10:11
Henry Anderson	About three months, it was about three months.	10:30
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yeah, it was January, February, yeah.	10:30
Henry Anderson	We went to school. We started going in November and out in December. It wasn't over three months. It wasn't over three months. School didn't last for three months.	10:30
Paul Ortiz	This was in Dallas County.	10:35
Henry Anderson	That was in Marengo County, but that's in Alabama, the schools, unless it was some kind of college or another, but the regular, I would say, what'd they call these schools? Elementary schools weren't more than three months unless they were a college. We children didn't have but three months to go to school in.	10:36
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	We had to go back and go to the fields.	11:06
Henry Anderson	Then you go back and go to the fields.	11:06
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Farm.	11:07
Henry Anderson	Right then, clean up for the, you get caught up, farming. My experience in those days, they were good days. I called them good days then, because that's all I had, just like children these days call these good days because they don't know about them other days. You see, I know about them other days like I know about these, but they don't know anything about them. As I said, back there, children had more than just their birth parents to help to raise them and teach them and guide them in the right direction.	11:08
Paul Ortiz	What was that like? Who else would help guide?	12:07
Henry Anderson	Huh?	12:10
Paul Ortiz	Who else would help with that?	12:11
Henry Anderson	Who else?	12:14
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Any family.	12:15
Henry Anderson	Any parent, I would say, over you or they'd say, you're a family man and they'd use it that way. Any family person could help to raise your children. Any family person could help to raise your children at that time, because now just an ordinary person ain't going to bother with you, but if you're the family name, you're going to try to raise your family. Then you're going to try to raise my family like you raise yours, but now, if you ain't no family person, maybe you let it go, but people at that time, you could live neighbor. I could leave my house open.	12:17
Paul Ortiz	Did that change from Marengo County to Dallas County?	13:27
Henry Anderson	Yeah.	13:31
Paul Ortiz	How did it change?	13:33
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	No, that didn't. From Marengo County and Dallas County was different, a different place.	13:35
Henry Anderson	You talking about the operation of the system?	13:41
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	13:45
Henry Anderson	Oh, yeah. It did. Here's the thing in Alabama. All of this was over the state of Alabama. We went. Now there's some people, there were some families who were raised on, we say, plantation, on the supervision, I would say, of bosses. Then there were some families, Black families, had their own supervision or their own providing. I'm one of them that I didn't have to wait for Mr. So-and-So to get up with no bell. When the bell rang, I'd get up. When the bell rang, I'd come in. I didn't have to. I wasn't under that pressure.	13:47
Paul Ortiz	That was a different—	14:46
Henry Anderson	I knew some that was. I was different. I knew about it, but I wasn't under that kind of pressure, but I knew about that kind of knowing.	14:50
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember? Did you remember what it was like for people that were under that plantation system? How was it different?	14:56
Henry Anderson	It was different because the boss would say, "You do as I tell you to do, or else you suffer the consequence." Whether you like it or not, you've got to do it, and so it happened that way, and I know at that time, several under that. I thought it would be hard because of your skin and your power, you treated me that way. That was in the '30s. That was in the '20s. That was in the 18's and that was in '19, all of these things happened. Now, I thought that was trouble, but it happened to us. It happened to us. It's hard for us to not think about these things, how we were oppressed under a boss, but we did it. We had to do it or else we didn't survive.	15:03
Paul Ortiz	Right.	16:45
Henry Anderson	Our schooling wasn't but three months.	16:45
Paul Ortiz	Three months. Okay.	16:48
Henry Anderson	Three months.	16:49
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Anderson, I wonder if you could tell me a little bit about your parents' farm. You were sharecropping also?	16:51
Henry Anderson	Well, let me help her. Partially, we were sharecropping some, and sometimes, we weren't sharecropping. Not at all the time, we weren't sharecropping. I'm talking her part now because I know a time that she wasn't sharecropping and there were times she was sharecropping. Reason I'm saying because my remembrance is much better than hers. I can remember back more farther than she can. That's why I'm trying to help her out, because we've been living around close together all our lives.	17:04
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	What I was thinking about the sharecropping, when my grandparents, when I was coming up, they raised corn. They had to give Mr. Joad half of the corn they raised and the peas and the potatoes and things then. I was brought up, you know what I mean, under that, too. Well, if you had some property of your own, you didn't have to share with Mr. Joad at all, if you had property, but there's very few folks had property their own. They were living on the property of Mr. Joad there, and whatever they raised, they had to share with him.	17:42
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm (affirmative). Did you know other families, other African-American families?	18:34
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	This was a community of us when all this was going on, doing the same thing, you see, but at the time passing, he went on out from that then, and so as we got older, we left now and then. It's just one of those things all I continue to.	18:37
Paul Ortiz	What were your responsibilities? Did you have different responsibilities than, say, your brothers?	19:04
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Said our brothers? No. I did not. I can't recall what I did, too. I can't recall, because them things is done past and gone on, and I can't. I just can't recall, to be honest and tell you the truth.	19:15
Paul Ortiz	You knew Mr. Anderson from the time you went to school in Marengo County?	19:44
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Mm-hmm (affirmative). I knew him, because his parents was the same way. Now, his parents had property. They had land of their own. They farmed and had corn and things. Well, they didn't have to share. We, living there, was near them. We went to school.	19:50
Henry Anderson	And to church.	20:27
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	And church together. After we got up some side—	20:28
Henry Anderson	We was happily married.	20:37
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	We left from there, and come to Dallas County.	20:43
Paul Ortiz	Did you marry before you came to Dallas County?	20:47
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yes.	20:50
Henry Anderson	Oh, yes. We were married in Marengo County.	20:52
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Married in Marengo County.	20:54
Paul Ortiz	When was that? When did you?	20:56
Henry Anderson	1928.	20:59
Paul Ortiz	1928.	20:59
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Year that counts.	20:59
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Anderson, you were about 21 and—	21:02
Henry Anderson	I was around about 19 or 20 when I was married.	21:03
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	19. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). I didn't want to leave him. I wanted to keep him with me. (laughs)	21:16
Paul Ortiz	What was it like moving? It must have been a big move, or was it a big move to Dallas County?	21:23
Henry Anderson	I'll tell you what. At this time in 1931, 1928, '29, I was a farmer. I lived on a farm. At that time, cotton was a farmer's source of income, money because corn, peas and things, that was his home to live off of. His cotton, when he sells, was where he gets his money from. The pressure come on on a farm in '29, '30 and '31. You got paid, a 500-bale of cotton, 500-weight bale of cotton, you wouldn't get about $20 dollars out of it.	21:29
Henry Anderson	A bale of seed, you'd get about $2 dollars out of it. Well, that was the farmer's source of money. Well, when that broke down, if you wasn't financed pretty good, you couldn't farm, or your cotton wasn't doing you nothing. You had five bales of cotton, you're getting about $20 for a bale of cotton, you've got five bales and you ain't got but $100 dollars. You work the whole year, you ain't got but $100 dollars. You've done bought five bales of cotton for $100 and I've done worked the whole year for $100 dollars.	22:37
Paul Ortiz	You moved to Dallas County.	23:39
Henry Anderson	I moved to Dallas County and I moved away for public work, not farming. I quit farming.	23:41
Paul Ortiz	Because times were hard.	23:49
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yeah.	23:51
Henry Anderson	They were hard.	23:51
Paul Ortiz	What kind of work did both of you do?	23:53
Henry Anderson	I was working at the sawmill, and she was working with White folk, when she did work.	23:55
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	I worked at a boardinghouse.	24:02
Henry Anderson	Boardinghouse.	24:04
Paul Ortiz	Boardinghouse. Do you remember, was that boardinghouse, did that happen to be on Alabama Avenue?	24:08
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	What'd you say?	24:15
Paul Ortiz	Did that boardinghouse happen to be on Alabama Avenue?	24:15
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yeah. It is in Alabama.	24:19
Henry Anderson	On Alabama Avenue in Selma?	24:24
Paul Ortiz	In Selma?	24:25
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Oh. I don't know. I tell you true. I done forgot.	24:25
Henry Anderson	That boardinghouse she's talking about is on Tremont in Selma.	24:34
Paul Ortiz	That must have been quite a switch from farming to working in a boardinghouse.	24:41
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yes.	24:45
Paul Ortiz	What was that like?	24:46
Henry Anderson	That boardinghouse, I would say, you learn the boardinghouse, you've got something that folks are sleeping and eating that, and she's working for you there, making maybe $2 dollars, $3 dollars, not over $5 dollars a week. That's the highest you're going to get. Now, the next person might get $10 dollars. That's the highest you get.	24:49
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	That'd be the cook, that done the cooking.	25:13
Henry Anderson	Then there was cleaning up and minding the [indistinct 00:25:19] was $4, $5 dollars a week at that time.	25:18
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Keeping the dishes washed.	25:19
Paul Ortiz	That must have been quite a change to go to that kind of work. What was it like?	25:28
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Well, it was kind of hard. I had to walk to my job the morning when I'd go down there. Then I had to walk back, and so it was complicated. I'm going to be honest and tell you the truth. It was complicated, but I went on to see my husband working at a sawmill, and my $7 dollars wasn't much coming in a whole week.	25:30
Paul Ortiz	It was something.	26:01
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	It was something. It was something, but $7 dollars a week to wash them dishes and keep them tables and things set for those boarders that was boarding at this place. That's what I went through.	26:09
Paul Ortiz	How did that make you feel?	26:24
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Well, I thought I was doing big things then at the time, but after I got up and then find out—	26:27
Henry Anderson	You see what's going on now, you see you wasn't doing nothing. It's [indistinct 00:26:42] short. At that time, it was good, because that's what it was. Now, we see how disadvantaged that we were treated, because at that time, you could take a nickel, buy a nickel of anything. You could buy a nickel of anything. I don't care what it was. You could buy a nickel of anything, but now, you can't take a nickel to buy nothing. It's a different change.	26:38
Paul Ortiz	What did you buy when you had a nickel?	27:16
Henry Anderson	You could buy a nickel of meat. You could buy a nickel of lard. You could buy a nickel of a shoe. You could buy a nickel of anything you want.	27:18
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Back then, them times.	27:24
Henry Anderson	Now, you can't take a nickel and buy nothing now. You wasn't going to take a thing, shoe, whatever you call it. The man is working ten and twelve hours a day, getting a dollars, two dollars. See, I worked for 30 cents a day. I worked ten, twelve hours, 30 cents a day. I've got a family. I worked for 30 cents a day.	27:28
Paul Ortiz	In the sawmill?	28:02
Henry Anderson	It wasn't on the sawmill. It was public work. It wasn't on the sawmill. I was logging, bringing logs to a sawmill. That's the way it was, men working hard times, making $5 and $6 and $7 dollars a week, $10 dollars a week, $15 dollars a week, all of that. It's different brackets, in different brackets of life. That's the way we had to come up in them days, in the years of, say, 1936, '37. By '37, there's a little bit of change. You work on making a little help from the government, 1940, you could do a little bit better. They started helping you out a little bit.	28:05
Henry Anderson	See, the state and the government, up until about '36, the government and the state, none of them wouldn't help you do nothing, but the government did start helping you some in about 1937. The state had to help you some, and the government helped you some, and it kept driving up higher. From backing up until that time, you were up below, folks said you were root hog, or die poor, and less fortunate folks, that's what they did, died poor, because the one that had, he took advantage of them that didn't have and intruded on them. Yet they suffered, but God so fixed it that he changed it around some and let everybody have a little bit better privilege.	29:24
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember the name of the sawmill that you worked at?	30:10
Henry Anderson	Huh?	30:12
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember the name of the sawmill that you worked at, or who owned it?	30:13
Henry Anderson	Yeah. Me, you're talking about?	30:16
Paul Ortiz	Yeah, when you were working at the sawmill.	30:16
Henry Anderson	Yeah. Gooch Delong Cutting It?	30:17
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	[indistinct 00:30:33]	30:28
Henry Anderson	See now, I can't remember that, but them two, I remember them two. Miller and Gooch, Miller Company, them two, but I wasn't making nothing. Yet still, like I said, your cost of living wasn't as bad, but it couldn't have been because you couldn't have afforded it because you weren't making no money.	30:43
Paul Ortiz	What were your coworkers like?	31:07
Henry Anderson	They were nice, too. They were all right. They had to be. Older folks were more cooperative and they were more loving and they were more gentle with one another then than it is now, a whole lot better.	31:11
Paul Ortiz	How would they be more generous at that time?	31:27
Henry Anderson	Whatever they had, they shared with you. They looked like they were all happy. They looked like there wasn't anything, wasn't so quick to draw and get mad and kill you and all that kind of stuff like they're doing now. I don't know why. I don't know why. Then I take that back, too, yes, because Scripture says the world will grow wiser and weaker. That's what it's done, until now. The Lord brought us through it, and the only way out, however incessant it is. All I've been through, I really don't know nothing else to say about how I come up, no more.	31:30
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	It was rough.	32:27
Henry Anderson	It was rough on us. A White person, a child, I could be 40 years old. The White could be three years old or 15 years old. They wanted you to say, "Yes, sir," "No, sir," or "Yes, ma'am" to them and you're 40 years old. That's the environment that we were brought up in. You'd say "Yes, sir," to this child. Yes, you're 40 years old and he's 15 or 10 years old, when you say yes and no. If you don't, "How come you ain't, nigger?" That was a White attitude toward the Black person.	32:43
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember violence against Black people in Dallas County during the '30s?	33:27
Henry Anderson	Well, not too much in the '30s, because violence go on ordinary, because I didn't see that many in the third war, but I don't know much on violence against Black people no more than had been all the time. It's just violence against Black in the '30s was like it was in '19. The Black just didn't have no privilege and didn't have to output and didn't have nothing to do but honor the civilization and vote for the White person. That's all. You just didn't have no voice or nothing. You were just pinned down to the White. That's in the '30s, the environment. If the White man killed you, you're just dead. If a Black man killed a White man, he's going to lynch. If a Black man whupped a White man, you're going to get killed and the White man's going to live. That's how that was.	33:35
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Rough back then.	34:49
Henry Anderson	It was just rough. That's how it was. That's all I've got to say, but the law got a little bit better. Not all the way fixed up yet, but it's better.	34:49
Paul Ortiz	Did you have children?	35:03
Henry Anderson	Who, me?	35:06
Paul Ortiz	Both of you?	35:07
Henry Anderson	Yeah, we did have two. Just got one now, a girl, got a whole lot of grandchildren, but we've only got one child. We had two children, a girl and a boy. The boy, he was in the Service for 15 years, and he died in the Service.	35:09
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	In Vietnam.	35:35
Henry Anderson	David did. David died in the Service, 1967, over in Vietnam. Our daughter, she's got a house. She lives in New York. Those are the only two we had. Her birthday's this month. That's all we had, just them two. They were born in the Depression. Both of them were born in the Depression. One was born in '29, the other one born in '31, right in the Depression, but the Lord brought us through.	35:35
Paul Ortiz	When did, maybe I can ask Mrs. Anderson this question. You were working. You were working in the boardinghouse. Where was your next job at?	36:06
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	My next job was after we married and we moved here in Birmingham. My next job was Lloyd Noland Hospital, I got a job working, operating the elevator, taking the patients and nurses to the different rooms and things. After then, taken sick, and I had to have an operation, so I couldn't no more.	36:18
Paul Ortiz	What kind of change was that, moving all the way from Dallas County to Birmingham? Did that seem like a big change at the time?	37:07
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yes, it was a big change.	37:16
Henry Anderson	It was a big change.	37:16
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yes, sir, a big change.	37:20
Henry Anderson	It came because we needed finances. After I left there and got here, I made a little bit more money than I did there.	37:34
Paul Ortiz	Where were you working here?	37:37
Henry Anderson	Down there, I was in the sawmill. I come here, I was working in the steel mill. I got a job in the steel mill.	37:39
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	TCI.	37:39
Henry Anderson	Then it was the coal mine.	37:39
Paul Ortiz	TCI.	37:39
Henry Anderson	Yeah.	37:48
Paul Ortiz	Which area of Birmingham did you move to?	37:49
Henry Anderson	A place called Westfield. From here, about a mile from here, where I worked then, a place called Westfield, and this is Fairfield.	37:52
Paul Ortiz	About what time was that, about what year?	38:04
Henry Anderson	1936 when I moved here.	38:07
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm (affirmative).	38:10
Henry Anderson	When I moved to a different county, 1936, and I've been here ever since.	38:16
Paul Ortiz	Both of you, how did you make the decision to move?	38:19
Henry Anderson	Well, I tell you, I always just, if I'm in a place and I've got a job and it don't seem like that job is supporting me like I think it ought to, I hunt for a better job where I can get support, support my family with. That's what I made that decision, to hunt and go somewhere else and get a job that I could make something to support my family better than I was. In January, in '37, I made the decision to come here to get a job that I might make a little bit more money than I was making and support my family, so I did that. That was the decision. When I did it, I found a job. I went and told her, "Where we going to go this time?" "Jefferson County is where we're going to put up there."	38:27
Paul Ortiz	When Mr. Anderson came back to talk to you about moving to Jefferson County, Mrs. Anderson, what was your reaction?	39:36
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	I was willing. I agreed with him, because to try to make better in life than what we was, so he could get more money for his labor. I agreed with him. I agreed with him, so we came on here. We had our two children. They was in school, going to school. They grew up and got grown and finished school. My son, he went into the Service. My daughter, she lived and went to New York State with some of her friends. They went up there, went and got a job, and went to working, so left me and Daddy here. We thank God we've been doing pretty good so far.	39:47
Paul Ortiz	Westfield is an interesting area, because historians don't know much about Westfield at all. We don't know.	40:56
Henry Anderson	Westfield at that time, it was a camp, we called it at the steel—	41:06
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Steel plant.	41:14
Henry Anderson	Plant. That's more than what the Tennessee Coal Line was cutting at that time. That was more. That folks lived, this was Fairfield, and that was Westfield. It wasn't a divide. It was just a name, about a mile from here, two. That was with Tennessee. That was the company's property.	41:23
Paul Ortiz	What was it like to live there?	41:53
Henry Anderson	Huh?	41:54
Paul Ortiz	What was it like to live there?	41:55
Henry Anderson	At that time, that was a lovely thing. It just be a different kind of living at that time when that was in motion, until they said for us to move out. You didn't find nowhere in Jefferson County where no more better place to live in than you did that we called a camp, see.	42:01
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yeah, the steel plant.	42:20
Henry Anderson	It was a steel plant camp.	42:21
Paul Ortiz	Who told you to move out?	42:29
Henry Anderson	Who told us? I'll tell you now. It was company property. It was their houses, and they had commissary seeing after their folks. When they got pleased that these won't cut down and cut back with these White, they asked the tenants in Westfield that they needed their property. They gave us lesser time, and lesser time. They were closing that camp down.	42:30
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Do you know about what year that was?	43:29
Henry Anderson	That was in '63.	43:31
Paul Ortiz	'63.	43:31
Henry Anderson	Yeah, and we got to it about '68, I think. I believe about '68 or '70 when they got it all completed. Now, out there, where the houses were, they ain't got nothing out there.	43:32
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	But the plant.	44:48
Henry Anderson	The plant. You've got nothing to—	44:48
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Steel.	44:48
Henry Anderson	There were houses and things built. All that was down, property in the house, but they had 51 acres.	44:48
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yeah. I was wondering why they closed them when he took him.	44:48
Henry Anderson	There was a lovely place to live in.	44:48
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Thank you, sir.	44:48
Henry Anderson	It was a lovely place to live in. There were people. It wasn't no rough town. Everybody knowed everybody, and you just couldn't find a different kind with no better place to live than that place, but the company had—well, they call it a commissary. They had everything you wanted from something to eat to something to wear. They had it there.	44:48
Paul Ortiz	How did you pay for the—?	44:54
Henry Anderson	You go pay. They cut it out of your salary, so you got to pay the merchant with credit and the merchant had let folks have stuff. Then the company was cutting in, and I would say, your business in town, you let me have something. Because of the company just got my money before I get it, I can't pay you. This is some of the reasons that they shut it down. The credit association told them they had to stop crediting men because that credit, it comes and they can't get their money, so they pay. Rather than do that, they shut the commissary down.	44:54
Paul Ortiz	Because they did not want to?	44:54
Henry Anderson	They [indistinct 00:46:28]. See?	46:28
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm (affirmative).	46:28
Henry Anderson	They let you have it, but then the association told them they'd have to cut credit and then buy new clothing. Before we do that, they went out of business with the store.	46:48
Paul Ortiz	I just want to make sure I understand this. They closed down the commissary and they made you move because they were told that they had to pay you in money.	46:53
Henry Anderson	This was, don't go getting me wrong. I'm saying I'm told this is what was the reason that they closed up, because they were afraid that they—	47:05

Olivia Pritchett Anderson	They closed the commissary, because they ain't going to let you have nothing on credit.	0:00
Paul Ortiz	So they were told that they could not use that credit system anymore?	0:09
Henry Anderson	Hmm-mm (negative).	0:15
Paul Ortiz	And so they closed up the commissary.	0:16
Henry Anderson	They closed the commissary, because they wasn't going to let the men have nothing, and not charge them.	0:22
Paul Ortiz	So not only did they close the commissary, but they told everybody that they had to move?	0:27
Henry Anderson	Not on that [indistinct 00:00:35]. That would be some of it, too. That's probably at least part of it. But later down the road, they went selling, going from one name to another one. They went from the Tennessee Coal Mining Company, to US Steel. They went form US Steel to—I don't know what Steel now. To this name.	0:33
Henry Anderson	And they told the folks then that they had to move out. They had to have that land over there.	1:05
Paul Ortiz	So you and Mrs. Anderson were living there at the time.	1:22
Henry Anderson	Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We were living there when they started—They came at the place. Oh yeah. We was living there, at that time. And that's one reason we left, because we had to. Yeah.	1:25
Paul Ortiz	Were you involved in—I should probably ask you this, Mrs. Anderson. Were you involved in any woman's clubs, any church organizations, when you were in Westfield?	1:46
Henry Anderson	No, I can tell you. I can answer that question.	2:03
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Hmm-mm (negative). No, I wasn't.	2:07
Paul Ortiz	How about your church?	2:09
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	The church we was—	2:11
Henry Anderson	St. Paul AME Church.	2:21
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yeah.	2:23
Henry Anderson	Way back.	2:23
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	That's the church we was worshiping at.	2:23
Henry Anderson	Yeah, St. Paul—	2:23
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	And when we was living in there then.	2:28
Henry Anderson	St. Paul African Methodist Episcopal Church.	2:31
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	St. Paul AME Church.	2:32
Paul Ortiz	Okay. And that was in Westfield.	2:34
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	That's right.	2:35
Henry Anderson	That's—Yeah.	2:35
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	That's right.	2:36
Paul Ortiz	Was that a different kind of church then you had went to before in Selma?	2:42
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Now, when I was in Selma, it was—	2:49
Henry Anderson	Church of God.	2:52
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	A little church they called the Church of God, I worshiped with, whilst I was present there. And so after I left from Selma and came to Fairfield, or Birmingham, I worshiped in St. Paul AME Church in Fairfield.	2:56
Paul Ortiz	Were you active in church activities?	3:21
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	I sing in the choir.	3:24
Henry Anderson	And a stewardess.	3:31
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	And a stewardess, worship in the choir. And that's what I did.	3:34
Paul Ortiz	What kind of music did you sing?	3:39
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	I couldn't not—I don't know.	3:46
Henry Anderson	What kind of music? She was a soprano. She was a soprano.	3:47
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	I'm a soprano. We had piano music. You know the piano music.	3:52
Paul Ortiz	Right.	3:58
Henry Anderson	Right in the church, they had a piano, and then an organ in the church.	3:59
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yeah, had a piano. So I sang in the choir.	4:01
Henry Anderson	Her voice is a soprano.	4:06
Paul Ortiz	Did you sing solos?	4:12
Henry Anderson	No.	4:14
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	No, I didn't never sing solo. I always would follow the leader.	4:14
Paul Ortiz	Sing with the choir. What was the minister like? Do you remember his name, when you first—	4:21
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	What was Reverend—?	4:37
Henry Anderson	Reverend Parker, Reverend Sanford [indistinct 00:04:43], Reverend Pickens.	4:37
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Mm-hmm (affirmative).	4:37
Henry Anderson	But the one you joined under that piano, Reverend Hopkins.	4:37
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	In Fairfield.	4:37
Henry Anderson	Westfield, Reverend Hopkins.	4:37
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	In Westfield, I mean—	4:37
Henry Anderson	And then Reverend Sanford.	4:37
Paul Ortiz	In Westfield, what was the medical care like? Did you ever need to—You mentioned that you had an operation. But I'm wondering what was it like if you got sick in Westfield.	5:11
Henry Anderson	They had a hospital right there.	5:43
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	[indistinct 00:05:44].	5:43
Henry Anderson	Lloyd Nolan. At that time, it was Tennessee Coal Mining Railroad Company, the TCI Hospital. And at that time it was the company's hospital.	5:52
Henry Anderson	And Lloyd Nolan. And the doctor's name up there, Dr. Nolan.	5:52
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Lloyd Nolan.	5:56
Henry Anderson	And after he died, they named the hospital Nolan Hospital.	5:56
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Lloyd Nolan Hospital.	6:01
Henry Anderson	Lloyd Nolan Hospital. But Dr. Nolan and Dr. Sims were her doctor at that time.	6:05
Paul Ortiz	Were they Black doctors?	6:12
Henry Anderson	No, they were White doctors.	6:12
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	No, no, no, no. They was White doctors.	6:12
Paul Ortiz	And that was a hospital that only Black people went to?	6:16
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Both. Black and White.	6:19
Henry Anderson	Black and White back then. Black and White. But it was segregated right on. It was segregated right on. You had a place for the Black and a place for the White. You didn't go on your own like they do now.	6:23
Paul Ortiz	How about the school? Or the schools in Westfield.	6:35
Henry Anderson	The schools in Westfield? They were segregated, too. Like in healthcare was.	6:38
Paul Ortiz	So there was one school for the Black children?	6:51
Henry Anderson	What now, they have for the White, in Westfield there wasn't White—	6:54
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	In Westfield there wasn't none. They was all Colored.	6:56
Henry Anderson	—back in Westfield. My daddy went out there for Black school.	6:56
Paul Ortiz	Okay. So in Westfield—	7:03
Henry Anderson	There wasn't nothing but the Black school.	7:05
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Because there was only Black people that live in Westfield?	7:07
Henry Anderson	We had some White people out there, about maybe 12 or 14 houses, I reckon. I reckon that many White houses out there. It wasn't over 10 or 12 families were White out there.	7:11
Paul Ortiz	What kind of work did they do?	7:26
Henry Anderson	They worked over to the plant. And most of them were kind of like watchmen in the plant.	7:28
Paul Ortiz	Did you have much contact with them?	7:38
Henry Anderson	No, we didn't have no contact with them.	7:41
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember labor organizing activity during those days when you came to work at the steel plants?	7:46
Henry Anderson	No, I didn't affiliate with labor movement, no more than I was just a member of that. Put participating in any movement of it, no. When I say that, going back and forth to the meetings, making the testimony, no I didn't do that. All I was just a member of the union—	8:00
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	You was just a hired member, working.	8:34
Henry Anderson	See, that's all. But to have a hand in going up, fighting one, thinking to kill somebody, no, I didn't do that. Because I know plenty Black was affiliating the officials in the union setup, but I wasn't.	8:35
Paul Ortiz	What did you think about union then?	8:56
Henry Anderson	I think the union is working for the union. I think the union played a great part in the labor movement. If it hadn't been for a union starting I guess we ought to have been a slave yet, for these folks paying you, what you're getting. The money that people's earning now, they're working for it, and these here youngsters don't want to require it, but the union called the plant, big places, do what they done. If it hadn't been for the union—	9:00
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	We wouldn't be where we're at now.	10:02
Henry Anderson	We wouldn't have been nothing. Wouldn't have been nothing. Because people looked down on them. With a bad eye. But I'm for a union any time. I'm for the union. And it hurts to see a person talk against the union. Then, what do they try and do. Because the union organization started these big firms to making pay the working man a decent salary. When they were working, they were getting all the money, and working here for nothing.	10:04
Henry Anderson	And I think well of the union. I think well of the union. I don't think much of a scab. I don't think much of a scab, that cross the union line. I think very little of it. Because they don't know what they're doing. They don't what that person—Not you. The one that started it. What he went through to get it there where it's at, to make that man over here do what they done now. It took courage to get it started. And then you want to come in here and scab on me. And what I've done is for your benefit what it is for mine.	10:54
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember strikes during that period of time? If you had—	11:51
Henry Anderson	Strikes? Yeah. I know about strikes.	11:55
Paul Ortiz	Can you tell me a little bit about some of the strikes that might have happened?	12:00
Henry Anderson	I'm a coal miner. In our organization, when it was hard to get one start up, John L. Lewis was the man. If he told you work, you're going to work. Because he said, sit down there, you come on out there. He going to back you up. And he wasn't no pay for move until he got what he wanted. And they never going to pay. There wasn't nobody—And if you were going to scab on him, you might scab this time, but you won't scab tomorrow.	12:05
Paul Ortiz	So you were working in mines.	13:08
Henry Anderson	I was in the mines.	13:09
Paul Ortiz	So there were a couple of different unions for miners, and you can tell me which one you belong to? There was the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers and then there was the United Mine Workers of America.	13:14
Henry Anderson	I'm in the United Mine Workers of America. I'm in the UMWA.	13:25
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember anybody who might have been in the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers? Do you remember that organization?	13:31
Henry Anderson	Huh?	13:38
Paul Ortiz	I remember reading about another union, it was called the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers. Do you remember that organization?	13:42
Henry Anderson	No, I don't remember that one. I don't remember that. I know what you're saying, and heard about it to, but I don't know nothing about it. This is why. But the only one I'm familiar with, and know about, is United Mine Workers of America, UMWA.	13:50
Paul Ortiz	And you were in District 20.	14:09
Henry Anderson	And we was District 20.	14:14
Paul Ortiz	Okay. In fact, I'm going to talk with—Do you know Leon Alexander?	14:15
Henry Anderson	Sure, I know Leon Alexander.	14:21
Paul Ortiz	He's another person that I'm going to be talking with.	14:27
Henry Anderson	Yeah.	14:30
Henry Anderson	Sure I know Leon Alexander.	14:31
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Anderson, I wonder, I had a question about your finances. And who, at this time, who was handling the money in your family?	14:34
Henry Anderson	In my family?	14:50
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	14:51
Henry Anderson	Who handled the money in my family?	14:53
Paul Ortiz	When you were living in Birmingham, who, for finances, for expenses for the children, was that a responsibility you shared, or—	14:57
Henry Anderson	Hmm-mm (negative). No, no.	15:08
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Hmm-mm (negative). No.	15:13
Henry Anderson	Me and my wife only ones that handled my money. Handled my money, me and her. Nobody handled money, but me and her. That's all.	15:14
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	That's all. Just me and him.	15:17
Paul Ortiz	Okay. We talked earlier about the commissary, was there a bank in Westfield?	15:27
Henry Anderson	No, no. Wasn't no bank in Westfield.	15:38
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	No, no. Wasn't no bank.	15:44
Henry Anderson	That commissary was the company, was US Steel.	15:44
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Steel.	15:44
Henry Anderson	[indistinct 00:15:47] commissary.	15:44
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Where you went and got your—	15:44
Henry Anderson	In fact, all there was, was the one in Fairfield.	15:51
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	You went and got your groceries and stuff down there at that store, commissary store.	15:51
Paul Ortiz	What about, you were both very hard working people, what did you do when you had some spare time?	15:59
Henry Anderson	Now? You talking about now?	16:09
Paul Ortiz	No, when you—	16:11
Henry Anderson	I was fixing to tell you, I don't do nothing now, but try to sleep.	16:12
Paul Ortiz	Right. How about in the days in Westfield, say in the 30s and 40s, when you had a bit of spare time, what would you do? What would be some of your activities?	16:15
Henry Anderson	My activities when I did do—	16:29
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Working in the garden—	16:32
Henry Anderson	Fish—	16:33
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	—hunting. He would hunt.	16:33
Henry Anderson	I had a little garden. That's all I done.	16:33
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Mm-hmm. [indistinct 00:16:41].	16:33
Henry Anderson	That's all. I ain't had no other kind of activities.	16:33
Paul Ortiz	How about you, Mrs. Anderson? You mentioned a garden.	16:46
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yeah, I had a garden, a few chickens. And so that was when I'd keep my garden, and the vegetables and things that I would raise my garden, some of them I could cut them up, and then some of them we'd just eat whilst they was.	16:49
Paul Ortiz	So those were vegetables that you were able to raise those?	17:14
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Raised myself, that's right.	17:18
Paul Ortiz	Vegetables you raised yourself.	17:31
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Mm-hmm (affirmative).	17:31
Henry Anderson	When you say you going to see Alexander? When you say you going to see him?	17:31
Paul Ortiz	I'm trying to get in touch with him. He was going to come to the Civil Rights Institute, where we're working out of, and I guess that he wasn't able to come today, so I'm trying to call him, so I can set up a meeting with him.	17:35
Henry Anderson	He was one of the union representatives, one of the officers of the union.	17:50
Paul Ortiz	Okay. So you've both known Mr. Alexander for many years?	17:57
Henry Anderson	Oh yeah.	18:01
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	Yes.	18:33
Henry Anderson	We worked in the mine together. We worked down in Concord same—I come out the mine in 1972. That's when I come out. And when I retired, back in 1972, in January. And he came out a little bit—I believe he came out ahead of me, or a little behind me. I don't remember now exactly how it was.	18:33
Olivia Pritchett Anderson	You know you've done forgotten a lot of, you know He done forgot a heap of it.	18:37
Paul Ortiz	There are some other questions that I need to ask you about your family history, and I wonder if I should—Because these are for, one for each of you. If we should wind up the interview, and work on these. This is just family history information, like your date of birth, your parents, grandparents' names. Would you like to fill these out individually?	18:43
Henry Anderson	Now, that's what I think, I'm trying to tell you about what you're trying to get my—I got to fill out something. Got to be particular how you go around and fill out these forms and things. And I like to know how come I got to fill it out.	19:25
Paul Ortiz	Okay. I'll go ahead and stop the tape here.	19:40
Henry Anderson	Okay.	19:44

Item Info

Title:

Olivia Anderson (primary interviewee) and Henry Anderson interview recording, 1994 June 17

Date:

June 17, 1994

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Contributor:

Ortiz, Paul

Description:

Name: Olivia Pritchett Anderson; Date of birth: 1909-11-10; Place of birth: Marengo Co., AL; Occupation: domestic; agriculture; health services; Residence: Fairfield, AL. Name: Henry Anderson; Date of birth: 1907-04-07; Place of birth: unknown; Occupation: miner; agriculture; Residence: Fairfield, AL
Informant ID: 763; Informant ID: 762; Interviewed by: Paul Ortiz.

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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behindtheveil
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Olivia Anderson (primary interviewee) and Henry Anderson interview recording, 1994 June 17

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1. Olivia Anderson and Henry Anderson administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Olivia Anderson (primary interviewee) and Henry Anderson interview recording, 1994 June 17

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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