Catherine Owens interview recording, 1995 July 13

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Mary Hebert	Okay. I want you to start by just saying your full name and telling me when and where you were born.	0:00
Catherine Skinner Owens	Catherine Skinner Owens.	0:00
Mary Hebert	Were you born here in Norfolk?	0:00
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes.	0:00
Mary Hebert	What's your birthdate?	0:00
Catherine Skinner Owens	August 14th, 1905.	0:00
Mary Hebert	What were your parents' names?	0:40
Catherine Skinner Owens	Townsend, Skinner.	0:42
Mary Hebert	What did your father do for a living?	0:49
Catherine Skinner Owens	He was, well, the dispatcher down to the coal pier.	0:52
Mary Hebert	Did your mother work?	1:03
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. Home.	1:05
Mary Hebert	Oh, she worked at home. She was a homemaker?	1:08
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	1:11
Mary Hebert	What part of the city did you grow up in?	1:12
Catherine Skinner Owens	Huntersville section.	1:16
Mary Hebert	I'm not very familiar with this area. Where about is Huntersville.	1:21
Eugene Owens	Okay. Huntersville would be in the major metropolitan area of Norfolk.	1:25
Mary Hebert	Okay. Is it in the Church Street area?	1:34
Eugene Owens	Church Street, Broadway Street, Washington Avenue, Johnson Avenue area.	1:40
Mary Hebert	Can you describe your house, what it was like when you were growing up?	1:52
Catherine Skinner Owens	Two story, frame house. A very — I don't know what to say. Full of life.	1:58
Mary Hebert	Did you have parties and people gathering in your home and that kind of thing?	2:10
Catherine Skinner Owens	Once a year, that would be New Year's. My father always had his friends and all on New Year's.	2:15
Mary Hebert	Would everyone dress up in —	2:25
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. No. Just ordinary.	2:27
Mary Hebert	Who came? It was his friends, your neighbors?	2:30
Catherine Skinner Owens	His people. In fact, the family, relatives.	2:35
Mary Hebert	Did anyone else live in your home while you were growing up?	2:40
Catherine Skinner Owens	No.	2:42
Mary Hebert	Just your family. Where did you go to school?	2:44
Catherine Skinner Owens	Jesse Price was then on B Avenue.	2:50
Eugene Owens	That was the elementary school.	2:56
Catherine Skinner Owens	Elementary. High school was Booker T. Washington.	2:57
Mary Hebert	Did you have to walk to school, or did—	3:11
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	3:11
Mary Hebert	How far of a walk was it to Booker T. Washington from where you lived?	3:11
Eugene Owens	Was that from O'Keefe Street?	3:11
Catherine Skinner Owens	That was from Ludlow Street.	3:19
Eugene Owens	From Ludlow?	3:22
Catherine Skinner Owens	That was about a mile, wasn't it?	3:22
Eugene Owens	It's more than that.	3:22
Catherine Skinner Owens	You think so?	3:26
Eugene Owens	It was about three miles, easily.	3:26
Mary Hebert	Did you walk alone or were there a bunch of children?	3:29
Catherine Skinner Owens	Bunch of children playing and kicking up, going to school.	3:31
Mary Hebert	What were your teachers like at school?	3:37
Catherine Skinner Owens	Very nice, very good teachers.	3:40
Mary Hebert	Did they have favorites or pets, or?	3:43
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, I would — Yes, during that time, most all of them had a favorite.	3:47
Mary Hebert	Who were the favorites?	3:56
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, I don't think I should say that, now.	3:58
Mary Hebert	I don't mean names, but I'm just thinking, did they come from certain upper class families, or it was just—	3:59
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, no, no, no.	4:10
Mary Hebert	Just people? Yeah, just anyone?	4:11
Catherine Skinner Owens	Who lived around. Yeah. Mostly the smart children.	4:12
Mary Hebert	What did the favorites — How did they get special attention? I mean, did they get special attention, or?	4:17
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah, somewhat. Yeah.	4:22
Mary Hebert	Would they be left in charge of the class after?	4:24
Catherine Skinner Owens	Sometimes.	4:27
Mary Hebert	Did your parents encourage you to go to school?	4:31
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes, indeed. Yeah.	4:33
Mary Hebert	Were they educated themselves?	4:36
Catherine Skinner Owens	Were they what?	4:40
Mary Hebert	Were they educated?	4:40
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, they weren't. Just ordinary people.	4:41
Mary Hebert	Had they gone to high school?	4:44
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. Grade school, elementary.	4:47
Mary Hebert	Do you remember your grandparents at all?	4:57
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. My grandparents, well, my grandmother died the year I was born, and grandfather and all, they passed years ago.	4:59
Mary Hebert	Did your parents come from somewhere else, or were they originally—	5:12
Catherine Skinner Owens	North Carolina. Hertford, North Carolina.	5:15
Mary Hebert	Did they come before you were born?	5:15
Catherine Skinner Owens	Come what?	5:15
Mary Hebert	Did they come here before you were born, or?	5:15
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes.	5:15
Mary Hebert	Did they ever tell you why they left North Carolina?	5:16
Catherine Skinner Owens	No.	5:17
Mary Hebert	No, so you don't know?	5:41
Catherine Skinner Owens	No.	5:44
Mary Hebert	Did you ever go back to visit family there?	5:45
Eugene Owens	Yeah. You've been to North Carolina to visit.	5:48
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, to visit?	5:48
Mary Hebert	Visit family.	5:48
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. Yeah. What'd you say?	6:00
Mary Hebert	I just asked if you had gone, you'd go back to visit family?	6:02
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, yeah. Yes, I did. Yeah.	6:02
Mary Hebert	Would you go during a special time of year, like—	6:03
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. Mostly in the warm weather though, in the spring of the year, but I went there about two or three times.	6:05
Mary Hebert	Would you drive, or?	6:15
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes. Yeah.	6:17
Mary Hebert	How far a drive was it?	6:21
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, Hertford from here?	6:22
Eugene Owens	Probably 20 miles or more.	6:22
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	6:22
Mary Hebert	Okay, so it wasn't a very long trip.	6:29
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, no, no.	6:31
Mary Hebert	Did you ever make any really long trips?	6:33
Eugene Owens	Now, that was when you were young.	6:39
Mary Hebert	When you were younger?	6:40
Catherine Skinner Owens	No.	6:43
Eugene Owens	At the time.	6:44
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. Yeah. You have to help me because some of these things I don't remember.	6:44
Mary Hebert	Oh, that's okay. What was growing up in your neighborhood like? Would the children play together?	6:50
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. Very friendly.	6:58
Eugene Owens	Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah, she would say that about them being friendly. During that time, their parents looked out for each other's child. If they were out playing or if one of the parents would've worked, then, unlike today, the next door neighbor became surrogate parents. They saw that you got your meal, you got in, you stayed out of trouble.	7:03
Mary Hebert	Would they punish you also? Could you get punished by a neighbor's parents or someone get punished, if you [indistinct 00:07:34]?	7:28
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. Your parents would punish you.	7:34
Mary Hebert	The neighbor's parents would tell you, would tell them?	7:37
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. Yes.	7:39
Mary Hebert	What kinds of games would you play when you were growing up? Did you have dolls and things like that?	7:41
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah, dolls. Hide and seek. That's about all.	7:46
Eugene Owens	Hopscotch. Basic games.	7:53
Mary Hebert	Did your family attend church? Which one?	8:00
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, my father was a Baptist and my mother was a Methodist.	8:04
Mary Hebert	Did you go to both of them?	8:09
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm.	8:10
Mary Hebert	As an adult, which one did you decide to go to?	8:13
Catherine Skinner Owens	Methodist.	8:16
Mary Hebert	Methodist. How did you meet your husband?	8:24
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, I met him at a dance, a school dance.	8:28
Mary Hebert	Did he go to Booker T. Washington also?	8:34
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm.	8:36
Mary Hebert	Now, you mentioned a school dance. Did Booker T. Washington have a lot of school dances and things like that?	8:37
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. Christmas parties and dances, most of the time.	8:44
Mary Hebert	What would you dress up to go to those with? What kinds of clothes would you wear? Do you remember?	8:49
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, just evening dresses. Fancy dresses and stuff.	8:54
Mary Hebert	Did you know him before you met at the dance?	9:00
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, I didn't.	9:02
Mary Hebert	When you were courting, what kinds of things would y'all do?	9:05
Catherine Skinner Owens	When I was doing what?	9:08
Mary Hebert	When you and your husband were courting.	9:12
Eugene Owens	Dating, where would y'all go? Things of that nature.	9:13
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, movies. That's about the only place to go then.	9:18
Eugene Owens	Movies?	9:18
Catherine Skinner Owens	Go to the movies.	9:20
Eugene Owens	Community dance.	9:21
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, we used to go to the movies.	9:23
Mary Hebert	Where were the movies theaters located.	9:26
Catherine Skinner Owens	On Church Street.	9:29
Mary Hebert	Would you go to the Atticus Theater?	9:31
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm.	9:33
Mary Hebert	Would y'all ever go out to restaurants or ice cream parlors and that kind of thing?	9:37
Catherine Skinner Owens	Sometimes, once in a while, but most of it, we did our courting at home. Wasn't too many places to go.	9:41
Mary Hebert	Were you chaperoned?	9:51
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes.	9:52
Mary Hebert	Your mother was in the room?	9:55
Catherine Skinner Owens	My mother, yes. Strict mother.	10:00
Mary Hebert	What kinds of things— You said she was strict. What kinds of things would she do?	10:03
Catherine Skinner Owens	I mean, what time to be home, and where to go.	10:08
Mary Hebert	When you went out with him, did you have to bring a brother or a sister along?	10:11
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, no, no. No.	10:15
Mary Hebert	Go out just — How did World War I — Do you remember World War I? You would've been—	10:16
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah, I was a small girl then.	10:25
Mary Hebert	How did it impact Norfolk? Do you remember that? Was there a fear that it would be attacked, or?	10:28
Catherine Skinner Owens	Everybody was afraid. Yeah.	10:35
Eugene Owens	Okay. They were afraid. Didn't y'all also have rationing, the family?	10:40
Catherine Skinner Owens	That's right.	10:45
Eugene Owens	Food, sugar, meat. Yeah.	10:46
Mary Hebert	How did that work, when they were rationing the meat, or?	10:49
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, it wasn't too bad with our family because we didn't have a — I was the youngest of the bunch. All the other ones were grown, and yeah, but it was bad with the other people around.	10:54
Mary Hebert	Do you remember the meatless days and the wheatless days?	11:06
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	11:09
Mary Hebert	The Liberty loans?	11:09
Eugene Owens	Liberty loans.	11:14
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	11:18
Eugene Owens	Also, they had curfew hours at night, blackout time, things of that nature. It was also experienced later, in World War II.	11:18
Mary Hebert	World War II, also.	11:35
Catherine Skinner Owens	Sometimes they would have those blackouts. The sirens blowing, and people was afraid.	11:38
Mary Hebert	What time did the curfew take place? Was it sundown, or?	11:43
Catherine Skinner Owens	What, for the children, or?	11:47
Mary Hebert	Well, the curfew. During the war.	11:47
Eugene Owens	The war.	11:47
Catherine Skinner Owens	The war. I was trying to — Around 9:00, I think.	11:53
Eugene Owens	Usually dusk, dark. Especially in the summer. Summer would be after 8:00.	11:53
Catherine Skinner Owens	Between 8:30 and 9:00.	11:53
Mary Hebert	Did your husband — Oh no. He was too young for World War I.	12:07
Catherine Skinner Owens	No.	12:10
Mary Hebert	No, he wasn't? Did he fight in World War I?	12:11
Eugene Owens	He didn't fight, but he—	12:14
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. See, he was down to the point, [indistinct 00:12:18] point they had, and they loaded ships down there with coal, sending them over to the—	12:15
Eugene Owens	No, Dad. Not your father, Nan. Did Dad — What was Dad doing during that time?	12:23
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, he was down to the point.	12:23
Eugene Owens	He was too? Okay.	12:23
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	12:23
Mary Hebert	Were they doing on the — Loading coal?	12:28
Catherine Skinner Owens	He loaded coal. North and Western Coal Pier, they called it, and he would dispatch the ships when they'd go out, and when the — Foreign ships come in there and load up with coal. Yeah. Going back to the foreign countries. Yeah.	12:34
Eugene Owens	Yeah. I thought that was the time he was over at the shipyard, and this was Portsmouth.	12:51
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. Who? Pa?	12:58
Eugene Owens	No, my dad. Not —	12:59
Catherine Skinner Owens	Your daddy?	13:01
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	13:01
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. He was down the point. He worked down there.	13:04
Eugene Owens	Okay, okay. Okay.	13:06
Mary Hebert	Okay. All right.	13:06
Catherine Skinner Owens	He worked at the shipyard too for a while. Yeah. I have to collect my thoughts, been so long. Yeah. He worked at the shipyard during the war. Then after that he went back there.	13:09
Mary Hebert	When did you marry?	13:35
Catherine Skinner Owens	Think I was married in 1930, I think it was.	13:35
Mary Hebert	Can you describe your wedding? What was it like?	13:35
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, I just had been to—	13:37
Mary Hebert	The court?	13:38
Catherine Skinner Owens	Had a simple wedding. Yeah.	13:39
Mary Hebert	Did your mother and father go?	13:44
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, we just went to the church. Yeah.	13:47
Mary Hebert	How did the Depression impact you and your husband?	13:48
Catherine Skinner Owens	How did the what?	13:57
Mary Hebert	The Depression.	13:57
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, during that time it was a little tight with everybody.	13:59
Mary Hebert	Did you—	14:02
Catherine Skinner Owens	Not too bad.	14:06
Mary Hebert	Where was he working?	14:08
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, he had a drug store.	14:10
Mary Hebert	He had opened the drugstore?	14:19
Eugene Owens	That was open by then. Yeah.	14:19
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. I think he opened that store in the 30s, I think.	14:19
Eugene Owens	I had to look that up.	14:20
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes, and it ran in the 30s.	14:23
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	14:24
Mary Hebert	You were married by the time he opened the drugstore up?	14:26
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	14:29
Mary Hebert	How did he decide to open up the drugstore?	14:34
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, he just decided because his home was in Norfolk too. Norfolk County and after he finished school, he decided he'd come here and open up the store.	14:37
Mary Hebert	How did he get the money to open it?	14:50
Catherine Skinner Owens	Working on a boat in the summertime.	14:53
Eugene Owens	He was a waiter.	14:56
Catherine Skinner Owens	On Mission.	14:57
Eugene Owens	Cruise boats and all different stuff at that time. That also helped him to go to school.	14:58
Catherine Skinner Owens	He worked on the Fall River Line. Way up in Buffalo, New York.	15:04
Mary Hebert	Were you married when he was doing this? Where did you first live when you got married?	15:11
Catherine Skinner Owens	In Washington.	15:19
Eugene Owens	Yeah. The store opened in 1934.	15:25
Catherine Skinner Owens	I thought it was somewhere in the 30s.	15:25
Mary Hebert	He had saved all this money to open up the store?	15:35
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, yeah.	15:37
Mary Hebert	How did he choose the location on Church Street? It was on Church Street?	15:38
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, there wasn't any drugstore in Norfolk that was Black, and he decided to open up the store here.	15:42
Mary Hebert	Where would people have to go to get their medicines and things?	15:52
Catherine Skinner Owens	Go to the drugstore, but it was down on Main Street. [indistinct 00:16:01] Martin, the name of it was.	15:56
Eugene Owens	He opened one in the major Black neighborhood there.	16:05
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	16:08
Mary Hebert	Was his drugstore patronized by people who were in the community? Did people who lived nearby shop there?	16:11
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	16:20
Mary Hebert	Rather than going to the White drugstore?	16:21
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, we had quite a few of our color, Black. Mm-hmm.	16:23
Mary Hebert	Did you ever work in the store with him?	16:30
Catherine Skinner Owens	Sometimes.	16:32
Mary Hebert	What kinds of things would he have you do?	16:33
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, at the fountain.	16:36
Mary Hebert	You would work at the soda fountain and make—	16:40
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. They had a soda fountain there too.	16:42
Eugene Owens	Cosmetic area, jewelry area, everything except the drug area, she would work in.	16:44
Mary Hebert	How did the White community respond to having a Black drugstore open up here?	17:03
Catherine Skinner Owens	Very well.	17:09
Mary Hebert	They didn't mind it? They didn't—	17:09
Catherine Skinner Owens	Didn't mind. No.	17:10
Mary Hebert	What else was on Church Street? What other kinds of businesses?	17:14
Catherine Skinner Owens	They had grills.	17:19
Eugene Owens	Okay. When she says grills, we call it bars today. Clothing stores. Eventually there was a Five-and-Ten, restaurants eventually, more movie theaters.	17:21
Catherine Skinner Owens	A shoe parlor.	17:40
Eugene Owens	Shoe store, beauty parlor. The Nickel and Dime family store. There were a few of those intermingled along the street too.	17:42
Mary Hebert	Now, in the clothing stores and shoe stores along Church Street, you could try on clothes and hats and things like that?	18:00
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm.	18:05
Mary Hebert	Did you ever go to any of the shoe stores that were owned by Whites.	18:06
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	18:09
Mary Hebert	Could you do that there? Could you try on the clothes and the—	18:10
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes.	18:14
Eugene Owens	Eventually. She told me so many things at the beginning that used to be a little bit of a problem. They would have special sections for them to try on, but eventually—	18:14
Catherine Skinner Owens	You could go.	18:23
Mary Hebert	You could try them.	18:24
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	18:25
Mary Hebert	They didn't prevent you. You didn't have to buy them without even trying them on.	18:25
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, no, no, no. They had [indistinct 00:18:33] on Church Street. That was a clothing store.	18:29
Eugene Owens	[indistinct 00:18:37].	18:36
Catherine Skinner Owens	[indistinct 00:18:39].	18:36
Mary Hebert	Was there a lot of business and traffic along Church Street? Did a lot of people shop Church Street?	18:41
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	18:47
Mary Hebert	Did y'all live very far away from Church?	18:49
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes.	18:53
Mary Hebert	Did your husband have a car to get back and forth?	18:56
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, they had the streetcar then. Yeah. Charlie car.	18:58
Eugene Owens	Yeah. At first he did, like she said, he used the bus and the public transit, but then eventually he was able to supply himself with his own.	19:03
Mary Hebert	How long was the store open?	19:19
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, 47 years.	19:22
Eugene Owens	That may be right. That may be right, there.	19:22
Catherine Skinner Owens	It was 47.	19:34
Eugene Owens	43 years.	19:34
Catherine Skinner Owens	43. When he retired—	19:34
Eugene Owens	Yeah. Had been open 47 years.	19:34
Mary Hebert	You closed it around 1977.	19:40
Eugene Owens	Right.	19:43
Mary Hebert	Had Church Street changed by that time?	19:43
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	19:46
Catherine Skinner Owens	Not too much.	19:46
Mary Hebert	It was still thriving then?	19:46
Eugene Owens	No, well, it was beginning to change quite a bit. Some of the stores were being boarded up. Brambleton Avenue, as we know it now, was beginning to be built. The Five-and-Ten was gone, and it was beginning to change into a more, I guess a progressive period.	19:52
Mary Hebert	Had they built the interstate system yet?	20:15
Eugene Owens	No, they hadn't gotten — They were working on beginning that. They had gotten that in at that time.	20:18
Mary Hebert	Did building the interstate pretty much cut it off?	20:23
Eugene Owens	That gave the people an alternate direction, which changed some of the use of Church Street. Also, when they put Tidewater Drive in, this made a straight run through the city without having to go to Church Street or Granby Street.	20:27
Mary Hebert	A lot of businesses closed after that happened?	20:45
Eugene Owens	Right.	20:49
Mary Hebert	Did you or your husband belong to the NAACP and any of those organizations?	20:50
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes, we did.	20:54
Mary Hebert	The NAACP?	20:55
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm.	20:55
Mary Hebert	What about, did he support Marcus Garvey and that kind — I forget the organization that Garvey had.	21:01
Eugene Owens	I don't think so. Marcus Garvey. There wasn't too much of an influence of that within our family.	21:07
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, no. No.	21:16
Mary Hebert	Why'd he decide to call it the Booker T. Pharmacy?	21:18
Eugene Owens	Okay. There was several reasons there. Based on the life of Booker T. Washington, then Booker T. Washington High School, the term Booker T. had quite an influence within the family.	21:22
Mary Hebert	How did he have influence within the family?	21:37
Eugene Owens	Well, okay, Black history, Booker T. Washington, Booker T. High School. That's one of the first things you'll think about, something that is related to all Blacks and would draw Black patrons in, the term Booker T.	21:40
Mary Hebert	Did other Black pharmacies open up eventually?	21:59
Eugene Owens	Yeah, we had one, Berkeley Webb Pharmacy. We had another one, [indistinct 00:22:10]—	22:01
Catherine Skinner Owens	In Newport neighborhood.	22:12
Eugene Owens	Yeah, we had Jones over in Newport.	22:12
Catherine Skinner Owens	Smith.	22:12
Eugene Owens	Smith, yeah. Then, we know of one in Richmond. I can't think of that one's name.	22:15
Mary Hebert	They weren't really competing with this one.	22:21
Eugene Owens	No, no, they weren't competing with each other. They were in different cities.	22:22
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	22:27
Mary Hebert	Was there a Black business association here, a Black chamber of commerce?	22:28
Eugene Owens	A Black business group, yes. I don't know the official name for it. Yes, there was one, and there was also a Black medical association.	22:32
Mary Hebert	Did your husband belong to the business association, or the medical association?	22:42
Eugene Owens	Yes. He belonged to both. Black Businessmen of Church Street, I do remember that, and the Black medical association. He had an office in the medical association for a while. I don't remember what it was.	22:49
Mary Hebert	How did he get the nickname Doc?	23:02
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, just in general, they just called him. Yeah.	23:05
Eugene Owens	This was something that Blacks would called most pharmacists.	23:08
Catherine Skinner Owens	Doc.	23:13
Eugene Owens	Doc, yeah. In fact, at the time, when they couldn't afford to go see a regular doctor, they would go to the pharmacist and ask, "What would be good for this purpose?" That would get the name Doc going.	23:13
Mary Hebert	There were African American doctors here in Norfolk?	23:27
Eugene Owens	Yeah, quite a few.	23:31
Mary Hebert	Was there a hospital?	23:31
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	23:31
Mary Hebert	A segregated hospital? What was the name of it?	23:31
Eugene Owens	Malcolm Community. Wasn't one before Malcolm Community, was there?	23:34
Mary Hebert	Was there Drake?	23:34
Catherine Skinner Owens	Drake. Yeah. Napa's Point. That was in Napa's Point.	23:35
Eugene Owens	Right. Virginia. I thought it was.	23:45
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	23:45
Mary Hebert	What about dentists? Were there African American dentists here also?	23:53
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, in general.	23:56
Mary Hebert	Yeah. In Norfolk?	23:58
Eugene Owens	Yeah. Dr. Wells, Hodges and all of those, Black dentists.	24:00
Catherine Skinner Owens	Dr. Moreland.	24:06
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	24:07
Catherine Skinner Owens	Collins.	24:07
Eugene Owens	Yeah. Wilson and Wells, and a couple others. Yeah.	24:07
Mary Hebert	Would teenagers gather at your soda fountain?	24:18
Catherine Skinner Owens	Very popular.	24:22
Eugene Owens	Okay. There was a unique thing about the drugstore. It had two sections to it. It had a front section, which had a soda fountain and cosmetics and all those sort of items, and then there was a back section for the adults where they could — Eventually, it had dancing, beer, and other items in the other area, and that area could also be rented out for parties. The teenagers and everything stayed up front and you kept a check on those, made sure they didn't get in the back. This was a meeting place also for the Black families after church on Sunday, because there was about four churches around it.	24:23
Mary Hebert	Was there a jukebox and things like that for the teenagers and for the adults?	25:09
Eugene Owens	Yeah. Right.	25:12
Mary Hebert	Did he have to get a special kind of permit to have —	25:14
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes.	25:17
Eugene Owens	He had a permit and license for beer? He also had to have a permit, have a permit and everything to run the soda fountain and so forth.	25:18
Catherine Skinner Owens	It was the most popular place in Norfolk for—	25:27
Eugene Owens	A long time.	25:28
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	25:31
Eugene Owens	It was a major meeting place after church, during the week and everything.	25:36
Mary Hebert	As a meeting place, were there any discussions about how to change segregation? How to end segregation?	25:41
Eugene Owens	I would imagine so, but I wasn't around, in there at that time. I would imagine they may have had meetings in the grill section for that purpose at some time.	25:48
Mary Hebert	It wasn't an official meeting place of the NAACP?	26:00
Eugene Owens	No, no, but most of the time during that period, NAACP would meet in churches, something of that nature.	26:02
Mary Hebert	The pharmacy was where people in the community would just gather to have fun and to talk?	26:14
Eugene Owens	Right.	26:20
Mary Hebert	Were there any other places like that? Any other meeting places, gathering places?	26:24
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, that was the most outstanding, and Russell's Grill.	26:29
Eugene Owens	Yeah. Later on, there were some grills and places which came up. Russell's Grill. What was Barney's hotel called? The Plaza.	26:34
Catherine Skinner Owens	That's right. I forgot about it.	26:44
Eugene Owens	Yeah, the Plaza, and there was one or two others, but the original and the longest existing one was the Booker T. Pharmacy and Grill.	26:46
Mary Hebert	Booker T. Did your husband hire other people to work at the pharmacy?	26:54
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yes.	27:00
Mary Hebert	To work the grill area, the dance hall area?	27:02
Eugene Owens	There was normally at least two or three people working there at all times, besides him.	27:09
Mary Hebert	How late was it open at night?	27:11
Catherine Skinner Owens	Okay.	27:11
Eugene Owens	Well, when the beer curfew went to 12:00, it was open until 12:00, at least, and then you had the clean-up time afterward. Yeah. A lot of nights.	27:20
Mary Hebert	You mentioned a lot of beauty parlors and stuff along Church Street. Did you go to one of those?	27:44
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. No. No, I never went there.	27:52
Mary Hebert	You never went to beauty parlors there?	27:56
Catherine Skinner Owens	I'm trying to think of the name now.	27:56
Eugene Owens	Okay. Yeah, that's the [indistinct 00:27:58]—	27:56
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh yeah, Ms. Yerkins.	27:56
Eugene Owens	Yerkins.	27:56
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	27:56
Mary Hebert	What was it like in there?	27:58
Catherine Skinner Owens	Very nice.	28:12
Mary Hebert	Would the women talk about what was going on in the community? Who was—	28:14
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, sometimes.	28:18
Eugene Owens	General beauty parlor gossip.	28:18
Mary Hebert	I didn't want to use that word, but gossip.	28:23
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. Yeah. Ms. Yerkins was the outstanding one then, and Ms. Ash.	28:24
Eugene Owens	Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. There was also a Black insurance company along Church Street at that time too, North Carolina Mutual.	28:30
Catherine Skinner Owens	The bank was on —	28:48
Eugene Owens	Yeah, there was a Black bank for a while.	28:49
Mary Hebert	There was a Black owned bank there? Were most of these businesses — Did the Black people within the community patronize those businesses or would they go out to—	28:52
Eugene Owens	At the time, we were going through a period of change where it was more convenient and more acceptable for them to go to the Black businesses. As things gradually changed, they started to move to the other things, and I guess this is what helped some of the businesses to—	29:04
Mary Hebert	This is after the civil rights movement and desegregation, when the restaurants were desegregated, the lunch counter.	29:25
Eugene Owens	Right, things kind of changed.	29:30
Mary Hebert	Who lived around Church Street? Was it mostly middle, upper class people, or was it a mix of people?	29:37
Catherine Skinner Owens	Who lived?	29:43
Mary Hebert	Yeah. What social status of people?	29:45
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, I think it was the middle upper class and the —	29:47
Eugene Owens	Okay. I would say it's a mixture.	29:50
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah, yeah, mixture.	29:53
Eugene Owens	You could go one block one way and you'd find what was considered the upper class. You go two blocks another way you find middle, and you go out your door and you find whatever you want. I'd say it was a mixture.	29:55
Mary Hebert	It was a mixture. Because I was in Berkeley this morning, it seemed to me that that had been more of a laboring class area. Am I right or am I just—	30:08
Eugene Owens	No, it was, yeah. Yeah. Because that was close to what they called Norfolk, Shipyard. That's basically what that was, [indistinct 00:30:22] area.	30:15
Mary Hebert	Were there any areas of Norfolk that were considered bad sections of town that people didn't go to? High crime?	30:23
Eugene Owens	I imagine you had all of those, but during that time, not as much as you have now.	30:32
Mary Hebert	Would a bad section have been considered a section where there were the juke joints and those places?	30:33
Eugene Owens	Maybe, but they, at that time was more in the far downtown section, which was the White military hangout. Because, as I remember her talking and my father talking and my experience, you could walk any part of Church Street any hour at night during that time and nobody bothered you. It only started more than less after we got quite a bit of integration, that certain areas really became bad areas.	30:46
Mary Hebert	There really weren't any sections that people avoided?	31:16
Eugene Owens	No, because they couldn't — Anywhere you go, somebody knew you, so it wasn't that type of thing.	31:19
Mary Hebert	Anyhow, this was a fairly large city. The community was close-knit.	31:26
Eugene Owens	Right. I don't think we really started having too much of a problem until we started getting what we call housing projects.	31:30
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, you'd go downtown, Main Street.	31:43
Eugene Owens	Anywhere.	31:48
Catherine Skinner Owens	Anywhere.	31:50
Mary Hebert	Didn't have to worry. I've seen a photo of Church Street and there was a big tattoo parlor sign.	31:51
Eugene Owens	Oh yeah.	31:56
Mary Hebert	Who owned that?	31:56
Eugene Owens	The tattoo parlor was in the lower end of Church Street, which was a very Navy, White area. This was down near Main Street, and that was probably White owned because not too many Blacks went in for tattoos.	31:56
Catherine Skinner Owens	They're doing it very much now.	31:56
Eugene Owens	Not too many Blacks. It's still a White military activity. You find a few Black military that will do it, but mostly it's a White activity.	31:56
Mary Hebert	I was wondering, it was a shot of Church Street with this big tattoo sign, and there were Black people walking on street.	31:56
Eugene Owens	Street. Yeah, but that's down — It was down beyond the Church Street area.	32:34
Mary Hebert	Okay. I thought I'd ask when I got here.	32:40
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	32:43
Catherine Skinner Owens	Now, all this information, what do you do with it?	32:50
Mary Hebert	The tape will be transcribed and deposited into the archives at Duke University, and also be sent back here, I think to Norfolk State. I'm not sure exactly where the tapes are going to be deposited for use here. Eventually a book's going to be written on—	32:54
Eugene Owens	Life then.	33:09
Mary Hebert	Life in Jim Crow in the south. We've gone to — This is the third summer of the project and the final summer, and we've gathered about 1000 interviews from various areas of the south. Some cities like New Orleans and Birmingham, and a lot of rural areas also, so we're trying to see what it was like across the board for people in different areas.	33:11
Eugene Owens	This area, present analogy. The Jim Crowism here was more or less a hidden type thing. You went just about anywhere you wanted to go. It was just the looks, the like of recognizing you in certain places. Remember when we had the ferry between here—	33:35
Mary Hebert	Portsmouth.	33:59
Eugene Owens	Portsmouth. I remember you riding that sometimes after Sunday school on Sunday, couple of [indistinct 00:34:09] church, and we would go down and we would ride that back and forth and fro, and you would go into what we called People's, a White drugstore at that time. You could get a soda, but the deal was, you had to go to the end of the counter and get what you wanted. They would give you anything you wanted, but you couldn't go sit down on the seat.	34:01
Eugene Owens	Now, I was in with the group and when [indistinct 00:34:32] did the marching on the restaurants and the drugstores and all of that, helped break down more of the Jim Crowism that was going on, but unlike Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, and other places that you may have interviewed, it was an underlying Jim Crowism here rather than a direct thing to, say, hold you down. It was more or less hidden. It was done, but it was hidden.	34:29
Mary Hebert	Did they have the signs on the restroom doors, and?	35:01
Eugene Owens	Very early. Yeah.	35:06
Catherine Skinner Owens	Some did. Some.	35:07
Eugene Owens	Very early. I think here, the signs went out before they did in Georgia and places like that. I think the signs went out here somewhere in the late '40s or early '50s, because when I used to travel with her on the train to New York and places like that, I remember in the early days when I went with them, they were there, but then when I started moving about in my early adult or teenage, they were beginning to disappear.	35:07
Mary Hebert	In Virginia or in the Norfolk area?	35:38
Eugene Owens	In the Norfolk, some other parts of Virginia.	35:43
Mary Hebert	Do you think the military had any impact on that, the military being here?	35:43
Eugene Owens	Possibly, the military was a big thing. Possibly another thing was, Virginia is more of a, what do you say? A financial melting pot, so they wanted the money rather than the problems.	35:51
Catherine Skinner Owens	A big military base. Yes, so many—	36:14
Eugene Owens	Mixtures there.	36:14
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	36:14
Mary Hebert	Virginia Beach was segregated?	36:14
Eugene Owens	Virginia Beach was segregated up until the late — Let's see, I came out of college in '67. Up until probably '60 —	36:15
Catherine Skinner Owens	What? The Beach Park?	36:31
Eugene Owens	Yeah. Up until '63, '65, somewhere in that area, because I was waiting tables down there when I was in college.	36:32
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, yeah.	36:36
Eugene Owens	They had several theaters down there, which, they would permit the Blacks to go, but they had to sit in the balcony, up into the '60s, and then they eventually broke those down.	36:39
Mary Hebert	Did Blacks mainly go to the theaters like the Christmas Atticus Theater and those theaters?	36:51
Eugene Owens	Yeah. Most of them would come to Norfolk to the theater.	36:58
Mary Hebert	Would y'all go to Virginia Beach? Would y'all go to the beach?	37:01
Eugene Owens	No, Blacks were not—	37:04
Catherine Skinner Owens	No. It was Ocean View then.	37:06
Eugene Owens	Yeah, we had Sea View, Ocean View, and Ocean Breeze.	37:08
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, no, no, no. You couldn't go to Ocean View. Yeah, you could go, but you couldn't go in the water.	37:12
Eugene Owens	Yeah, but the Sea View section, you could go in the water, and then now, Virginia Beach, you weren't permitted in the water, again, until the late '60s, early '70s.	37:21
Catherine Skinner Owens	Had a beach called Sea View.	37:27
Eugene Owens	Sea View was our big beach.	37:29
Mary Hebert	Where was that located? Was it on the ends of where Virginia Beach is?	37:33
Eugene Owens	Believe it or not, it was between Virginia Beach and Ocean View.	37:39
Mary Hebert	Oh, okay.	37:39
Eugene Owens	It was between the two beaches.	37:40
Mary Hebert	How did they separate the beaches? I mean, how did you know that this was—	37:43
Eugene Owens	Okay, there was a [indistinct 00:37:48] area on both ends of that, that separated the two. Between Sea View and Ocean View, you have a military base in that area, and again, between Sea View area and Virginia Beach, you had a military base, which was Fort Story. You had basically a military section in between, and trees and so forth. We had that center section.	37:45
Mary Hebert	Would lots of people go there?	38:12
Eugene Owens	Oh yes. Church would have outings there. Clubs would have outings there.	38:14
Catherine Skinner Owens	Sea View?	38:19
Eugene Owens	Yeah, Sea View. There was several Black restaurants down there that people would meet and have fun. That was another dating area and so forth during the summer. Yeah.	38:20
Catherine Skinner Owens	The Pine Tree end was very much segregated.	38:31
Eugene Owens	Yeah. Pine Tree, they did not change their name until — They didn't change their segregation until they changed the name Tandem in the early '80s.	38:35
Mary Hebert	[indistinct 00:38:46]?	38:44
Eugene Owens	[indistinct 00:38:46].	38:44
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah, because we went there one Sunday and they refused the service.	38:46
Eugene Owens	You still have a few down in Virginia Beach, but the way they get around it, they call themselves private clubs. Into the late '70s, the hotel down in Virginia Beach, The Cavalier, was still segregated. Yeah, because I was waiting tables next door. Yeah.	38:53
Mary Hebert	They called it a private club with a private beach and they could do whatever they wanted to.	39:18
Eugene Owens	Right.	39:22
Catherine Skinner Owens	What about the country club? Is that still—	39:24
Eugene Owens	The country club, see, that's a club, so that's still segregated because it's [indistinct 00:39:38].	39:26
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, they don't force them to —	39:38
Eugene Owens	See, you have to have membership in there, so the way they keep you out, they won't permit the membership, they won't vote on it.	39:38
Mary Hebert	You were mentioning earlier that you took part in the civil rights movement here in the city? You marched?	39:43
Eugene Owens	Right. I was in, not in the state university. At that time, it was not Virginia State College. During the time of King's march, King's death, I was over there at the time and I was involved in quite a few of the civil rights marches on Woolworth's and Rose's Five-and-Ten, People's drugstores.	39:49
Mary Hebert	How were they organized?	40:15
Eugene Owens	Normally, they were either organized by the college student union group or they were organized by a church group. I was involved in the big march on Washington with King, helping to load the bus and put the lunches on, when they left New County Church with a group of people leaving here to go to the big march there. They were usually church, college oriented.	40:17
Mary Hebert	Did the administration of the college oppose student participation in the marches?	40:48
Eugene Owens	No.	40:52
Mary Hebert	No students were expelled for taking part?	40:53
Catherine Skinner Owens	Your group was the first one that went in Woolworth's, wasn't it?	40:59
Eugene Owens	On Granby Street.	41:01
Mary Hebert	Did y'all sit in?	41:01
Eugene Owens	Yeah, we sat in and blocked the lunch counter.	41:07
Mary Hebert	Were you arrested for that?	41:10
Eugene Owens	I wasn't, but some of the others were, one of the days when I wasn't there. Fortunate or unfortunate, I also worked in the drugstore with my father at that time, and that particular day, I was at the drugstore when they had the sit-in and the group was arrested, but I had been in quite a few of the sit-ins there after school days.	41:12
Mary Hebert	I need to turn this—	41:37

Mary Hebert	How did y'all organize the sit-ins?	0:05
Eugene Owens	What would happen is a meeting would be called on campus by the campus NAACP members. And then they would tell what the purpose of the meeting was. If it was for a sit-in, then they would say, "Okay, we need so many volunteers who are to sit-in at such and such a place. They have a seating capacity of this many, and we want to make sure that all seats are occupied by our members." And that would be a basic thing.	0:10
Mary Hebert	Did they specify how you should dress, how you should act?	0:43
Eugene Owens	No. The acting part was "Don't do anything that would create a disturbance or get you arrested. If you are asked to move, just act as if you do not hear the request. Don't give any argument or anything of that nature."	0:47
Mary Hebert	Would you [indistinct 00:01:06]— Go on.	1:05
Catherine Skinner Owens	They had it very calm here.	1:05
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	1:05
Catherine Skinner Owens	We didn't have any—	1:05
Eugene Owens	Basically based on Martin Luther King's idea—	1:12
Catherine Skinner Owens	Martin Luther King. Mm-hmm.	1:14
Eugene Owens	— of passive resistance.	1:15
Mary Hebert	And the reaction of the police force wasn't the same as it was in other cities?	1:17
Eugene Owens	Other places, no.	1:21
Catherine Skinner Owens	No.	1:22
Mary Hebert	How did you feel about your son taking part in the sit-ins?	1:24
Catherine Skinner Owens	Some, I was listening. I didn't know.	1:27
Eugene Owens	She didn't know. This would be done after school between time to go to the job or between time getting home. This was the personal thing after [indistinct 00:01:41].	1:33
Catherine Skinner Owens	No, we didn't have a hard time here.	1:43
Mary Hebert	What about with the schools, though? I heard that they shut down the White schools here.	1:46
Eugene Owens	Okay. Now, I was in high school at that time. That was the last part of high school where [indistinct 00:01:58]. Yeah. And we just began to work on the high schools. Yeah. Quite a few of the— Now how did he do it? The White students refused to go to the school. The school was open, the teachers were there. A lot of your home and private schools sprung up at that time for the White kids and the Black kids just took advantage of being able to institute the various schools. They just didn't have any problem. It was very little problem. Then another thing is Virginia was highly sports oriented. So when the White schools found that they were getting this well, Black sports talent, then some of the Whites started to come back because they saw that advantages they were going to get.	1:57
Mary Hebert	So the schools weren't closed?	2:48
Eugene Owens	They weren't closed as such. They were just, let's say, boycotted.	2:50
Mary Hebert	Oh, okay.	2:54
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm.	2:54
Mary Hebert	And so some of the private academies opened—	2:55
Eugene Owens	Right.	2:57
Mary Hebert	— up at that time?	2:57
Eugene Owens	Yeah because I don't remember ever missing a day from Booker T.	3:04
Catherine Skinner Owens	Hmm?	3:05
Eugene Owens	I said, I don't ever know missing a day from Booker T at that time.	3:06
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-mm (negative).	3:10
Mary Hebert	So you attended Booker T Washington high also?	3:11
Eugene Owens	Yeah. See, that's why I said, Booker T becomes a influence in 90% of Black families between say 1900 and 1966 'cause that was a major high school for the Black in this area.	3:13
Mary Hebert	Were there any others?	3:28
Eugene Owens	Yeah, you had— But they were other cities.	3:29
Mary Hebert	Okay. So they weren't near Norfolk?	3:32
Eugene Owens	There wasn't another high school in Norfolk for Black.	3:32
Mary Hebert	How did you get to school with? Did they have buses by that time?	3:36
Eugene Owens	For those who were in the outlying area, Mammoth Point and further out, they had buses to— No, they didn't. They had to catch the city bus.	3:40
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They had to catch the school—	3:49
Eugene Owens	They had to catch the city. That's right.	3:50
Catherine Skinner Owens	City. And they—	3:50
Eugene Owens	They did not provide buses until they started the integration. The forced integration.	3:54
Catherine Skinner Owens	They enjoyed it there.	4:03
Eugene Owens	Yeah, we would walk to school, [indistinct 00:04:03].	4:03
Mary Hebert	Just like you did when you were growing up.	4:03
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm.	4:04
Mary Hebert	It was a way to meet with the people in the neighborhood.	4:05
Eugene Owens	Right.	4:07
Mary Hebert	Kids.	4:07
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	4:07
Eugene Owens	You go by somebody's house, pick that one up, go to another house, pick up. Time you finished, you got 15 or 20 kids walking around together talking and playing.	4:07
Catherine Skinner Owens	It's worse now than it was then.	4:16
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	4:18
Catherine Skinner Owens	I notice now I don't see any school children walking down the street from the school up here. Afraid to walk. And then when we were coming along, we had a good time.	4:19
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	4:30
Catherine Skinner Owens	Uh-huh (affirmative).	4:31
Mary Hebert	So that's how you'd meet your friends every morning and would you have to leave early to get to school?	4:34
Catherine Skinner Owens	Not too early.	4:39
Eugene Owens	You figured out how long it would take you to walk to school in one or two days going and that was it. And then sometime you didn't go by someone's house. You said when y'all would leaving each other evening and say, "Okay, I'll meet you here tomorrow morning, at the same time." And everybody would meet up at the same place and we'd go home.	4:42
Mary Hebert	And you'd go home together?	4:58
Eugene Owens	Yeah. And sometimes it would be general talks that have you be talking about what you had to do for a particular class that day. So yeah, it was a purposeful walk. Unlike now you get on the bus, you got your radio going, you got your noise, you got your talk about your TV shows. So your concentration is on too many things. Now during that time, two or three of us get together, we all would have the same chemistry, math, or English class, and we'd be talking about what we had to do for class. So how did we do the homework for that class?	4:59
Mary Hebert	Mrs. Owens, would you insist that your son do his homework every night? Would you stay on him to make sure he got his homework done and that kind of stuff?	5:36
Eugene Owens	Okay. She didn't hear your question.	5:45
Mary Hebert	I was asking it if you made sure that he got—	5:47
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah.	5:50
Mary Hebert	— [indistinct 00:05:52] done.	5:51
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	5:51
Mary Hebert	Did you have any chores or work to do when you got home from school in the afternoon?	5:54
Eugene Owens	Everybody did.	5:59
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	6:01
Eugene Owens	She did. I did. Yeah.	6:01
Mary Hebert	So you'd help your mother clean her house or whatever she had for you to do?	6:03
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, oh yeah.	6:07
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	6:09
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	6:10
Eugene Owens	Yeah.	6:10
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. [indistinct 00:06:12] had your particular— Well, see, it was six of us and I was the youngest of the group. All of them were grown. I was on my mother's last go round, so I didn't have any smaller brothers.	6:12
Eugene Owens	Yeah, everybody [indistinct 00:06:31].	6:30
Catherine Skinner Owens	Well, I had one brother around near my age. He's three years older. Other than that, the other ones were older.	6:31
Mary Hebert	And so on Saturdays, your mother had things for you to do?	6:41
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah.	6:44
Mary Hebert	Every Saturday?	6:44
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm.	6:45
Mary Hebert	Did she teach you how to cook and how to sew and those kinds of things?	6:46
Catherine Skinner Owens	Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, my mother wasn't too much of a cook. My older sister used to do the cooking. She loved to cook. But my mother taught us how to do the housework though. Yeah. But like having a younger brother or sister to come along and I didn't.	6:50
Mary Hebert	You were the youngest.	7:16
Catherine Skinner Owens	Mm-hmm.	7:16
Eugene Owens	Let's see if he wants to leave and go get it.	7:23
Catherine Skinner Owens	You got to go, huh?	7:24
Eugene Owens	Nah. He may want to run off and get his lunch.	7:25
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah, most of the time [indistinct 00:07:27].	7:26
Eugene Owens	He did.	7:26
Catherine Skinner Owens	What time is it?	7:26
Mary Hebert	It's three o'clock.	7:26
Eugene Owens	Three o'clock.	7:26
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. Almost time for me too.	7:27
Eugene Owens	When you eat too. Yeah.	7:35
Mary Hebert	Oh. Okay.	7:35
Catherine Skinner Owens	I'm diabetic. I have to eat at a certain time.	7:35
Mary Hebert	Oh, okay. Well, we can stop in a few minutes if you want. And—	7:36
Eugene Owens	How much more you need?	7:39
Mary Hebert	I'm about finished. I was going to ask about World War II and how that impacted Norfolk, but—	7:40
Eugene Owens	World War II was probably very similar to World War I. Those who were out of jobs were still struggling. Those who had jobs that were military connected with the base and all, they had to work because they were supporting the people who were overseas. World War II was when dad was working with [indistinct 00:08:11] group, wasn't he? They would do house inspections at night. Things of this nature. I don't remember my dad very much because lights had to be out at a certain time. I had to be in. And you had to make sure that when the [indistinct 00:08:30] people come around, none of the kids were out. I remember that else— No, that was the next Depression going ahead right after that where they had the sugar rationing.	7:48
Catherine Skinner Owens	You about finished at it?	8:44
Mary Hebert	Yes ma'am.	8:45
Catherine Skinner Owens	Uh-huh (affirmative).	8:46
Mary Hebert	So we can stop now if you want. And—	8:46
Catherine Skinner Owens	Yeah. [Indistinct 00:08:50].	8:48
Mary Hebert	Okay.	8:48

Item Info

Title:

Catherine Owens interview recording, 1995 July 13

Date:

July 13, 1995

Creator:

Owens, Catherine Skinner

Contributor:

Hebert, Mary

Description:

Name: Catherine Skinner Owens; Date of birth: 1905-08-14; Place of birth: Norfolk, VA; Occupation(s): homemaker; pharmacist's assistant; Residence: Nofolk, VA
Informant ID: 965; Interviewed by: Mary Hebert.

Occupation:

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

See below

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-1323
e6fb5008-a419-4246-98a3-c9e2c3f7e790
behindtheveil
631527ec-2c01-4b83-a81d-b026a3f2f0a7
ark:/87924/r4bv7p48c
631527ec-2c01-4b83-a81d-b026a3f2f0a7

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4bv7p48c

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Catherine Owens interview recording, 1995 July 13

Transcript

Item Info

1. Catherine Owens administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Catherine Owens interview recording, 1995 July 13

Transcript

Item Info

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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