Mary McNeal interview recording, 1995 June 22

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Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, could you tell me where you were born and what it was like to grow up there.	0:02
Mary Craig McNeal	Oh, I was born in Bailey, Tennessee. My dad and my mother separated when I was about five or six years old. They moved to Memphis and I lived with my mother's father and mother.	0:07
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	0:27
Mary Craig McNeal	Every summer when school was out, I started school at six years old, and when school was out, we'd go out in the country and stay with my daddy's mother and father. Some summers, we went to school out there too.	0:30
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Out in Bailey?	0:47
Mary Craig McNeal	Bailey, well, yeah, but we went to Collierville school 'cause we had to walk a long ways to get to school. My grandfather, he was old and we used to pick cotton and chop cotton and we'd go fishing. He owned a house and a barn and stuff all out there in Collierville.	0:48
Paul Ortiz	Your father did?	1:20
Mary Craig McNeal	No, my grandfather.	1:20
Paul Ortiz	Your grandfather.	1:25
Mary Craig McNeal	My father left the country when I was about five or six years old.	1:27
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	1:33
Mary Craig McNeal	But he always would raise hogs and he would take food out there. He'd buy hogs and let my grandfather raise them. He'll pay him for raising hogs and stuff.	1:37
Paul Ortiz	Okay. So your grandfather owned his land.	1:47
Mary Craig McNeal	Uh-huh.	1:51
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, about how many acres did he farm?	1:51
Mary Craig McNeal	I don't exactly know, but I'd say about probably seven or eight acres.	2:00
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, what are your earliest childhood memories about growing up?	2:12
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, my earliest childhood memories is as I'd say, about 10, when I remember living with my auntie and my mother's mother over here on Southern, going to the Greenwood School.	2:19
Paul Ortiz	That was in Memphis.	2:35
Mary Craig McNeal	That was in Memphis, mm-hmm.	2:39
Paul Ortiz	What was Greenwood school like?	2:47
Mary Craig McNeal	It was real nice. Well, you know it was all Black and it was over there on Melrose, and it went from the first to the eighth grade.	2:50
Paul Ortiz	Did you like the teachers there.	3:09
Mary Craig McNeal	I liked Ms. Dean. I liked the Ms. Dean. She taught eighth grade and I had another teacher, let me see what—Ms. Brown and she was my teacher in the sixth grade. I liked her. I graduated from Greenwood and went to Booker Washington.	3:11
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. Mrs. McNeal, what was Memphis like during those days for Black people?	3:35
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, back in those times we had to go to the back in cafés and you couldn't eat up in the front. At the bus station, the same way, you had to go on one side and the White was on another side. Even when I and my daddy would leave Collierville, we'd catch the train, we still had to go in a coaches with all Black coaches, with all Black peoples.	3:49
Paul Ortiz	Okay. What were your first experiences with segregation?	4:26
Mary Craig McNeal	You mean when it began to get better?	4:35
Paul Ortiz	No, during those early days.	4:37
Mary Craig McNeal	Days. Well, I really don't know about that. I don't know nothing about that, 'cause we didn't seem to pay it no attention about where you was the Black and the White or what you was so until we got older and they started this segregation stuff.	4:39
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Mrs. McNeal, how many people were in your household when you were growing up?	5:03
Mary Craig McNeal	It was my grandmother and my grandfather, my uncle and his wife and three kids. It was about almost 10 of us in our household.	5:14
Paul Ortiz	What were your responsibilities in the household?	5:32
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, I had to cook. After I got older, I had to get up and cook and wash dishes and clean up on Saturday and wash my own clothes for school.	5:37
Paul Ortiz	When did you begin to do chores?	5:53
Mary Craig McNeal	I'll tell you, Monty started me out early, I guess about, I'd say nine or 10-years-old 'cause she was the type that you had to learn how to do something for yourself. She started us out early and I guess I had to cook. She taught me how to cook and I had to wash dishes before I'd go to school in the morning. A lot of times, I was always late.	5:55
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, and then who would you play with? What kinds of games would play?	6:33
Mary Craig McNeal	We would play hop-scotch and we'd played Jacks and played mom and dad, all that, with mud and stuff. So we played all that. We used to go under the house and play. Our house was up off the ground, you could crawl under there. We used to go under there and play mom and dad and all that kind of stuff.	6:41
Paul Ortiz	Who were your role models when you were growing up?	7:15
Mary Craig McNeal	My auntie, Josephine Hill.	7:22
Paul Ortiz	Can you tell me something about her?	7:25
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, she was married to my uncle and she had one child. She raised us up as sisters and brothers. Me and him were raised up together and we was real close. As I got older, they were saying that she didn't have any family. Well, she had a sister, two sisters. But when he met her, he met her, she was in a car box and he got her out of the car box and married her. That's how she got to be in our family. She didn't have no one but two sisters. When he found them, all three of them was in the car box on the railroad, out there on Bezoar Mississippi Railroad in the yard part.	7:27
Paul Ortiz	I see. Mrs. McNeal, did your grandparents ever talk about their life growing up or about their—?	8:24
Mary Craig McNeal	No, not as I know of. No, I don't remember that.	8:32
Paul Ortiz	Had they always lived in Bailey?	8:39
Mary Craig McNeal	No. Now my mother's family, they moved from Olive Branch, Mississippi to Memphis, but my daddy's family lived in Bailey, Tennessee. That's where I was born there.	8:42
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Mrs. McNeal, what year were you born?	8:52
Mary Craig McNeal	1922.	8:52
Paul Ortiz	1922. When you were in Memphis, Mrs. McNeal, can you describe the neighborhood that your family lived in?	8:58
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, we lived on Southern, right on the railroad. At that time, it was the Southern Collierville, but now its Hunt Western. We could walk right out our yard right into the Hunt Western yard. My uncle, he worked there. He was a fireman at there. My grandmother and my auntie used to serve the men's lunches there. Our neighborhood, they was all neighbors, 'cause I guess all of them had bought their home or was buying their home around there. So a lot of them stayed there until way up in the year until they started selling their houses out over there on William and Mansfield and Southern.	9:19
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Did that neighborhood have a name? Was that in midtown or—?	10:12
Mary Craig McNeal	It's right off of Bellevue, between them two ride outs on Bellevue, go up the hill is where a Hunt Weston is.	10:17
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Mrs. McNeal, what kind of relationships did you and your neighbors have during those years?	10:25
Mary Craig McNeal	We was pretty close neighbors. The kids, the older peoples and the kids all. We would have fights, but we didn't have no killing fight. We all got along pretty good. If I did something wrong and someone else come and tell my mother or my grandmother, I would get a whooping regardless whether it's true or not, 'cause she was believing what they were saying.	10:38
Paul Ortiz	Who was in charge of discipline in the house?	11:04
Mary Craig McNeal	My auntie and grandmother, 'cause my mother, she was working out.	11:13
Paul Ortiz	Where was she working at?	11:22
Mary Craig McNeal	She was working in a private home for $2 or $3 a week.	11:24
Paul Ortiz	Did she ever talk about her working conditions?	11:32
Mary Craig McNeal	No, because she worked there, she worked inside the home until she raised this little White girl she was taking care of. She raised her up. Then when she got up to go to school, then her boss, which was Mr. Scott, put her up there in the Hunt Western to work. She cleaned up the office and stuff up there in Hunt Western.	11:36
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay.	12:02
Mary Craig McNeal	She worked there for about 22 years.	12:05
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, can you tell me about your experiences at Booker Washington High School?	12:08
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, I had a couple of teachers that I liked, such as Nat D. Williams and Mr. Marsh was my home room teacher. Nat D. was my history teacher and Mr. Foster was my English teacher, Foster.	12:16
Paul Ortiz	During those days, did children from all over Memphis attend Booker T. Washington?	12:47
Mary Craig McNeal	No, it was all Black.	12:52
Paul Ortiz	Okay. What were your favorite subjects, Mrs. McNeal?	13:00
Mary Craig McNeal	I liked the history, but I didn't learn too much about it.	13:06
Paul Ortiz	Did you get involved in activities in school?	13:13
Mary Craig McNeal	No, uh-huh. I didn't get involved too much. I did at grammar school, but not in Booker Washington.	13:18
Paul Ortiz	What kind of activities in grammar school were you involved in?	13:28
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, they had a little band, you know the band? I was in the music business. My mother had me taking music from Ms. Brodnax.	13:35
Paul Ortiz	I think I've heard that name before, Ms. Brodnax?	13:51
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah.	14:04
Paul Ortiz	Was she a very good music teacher?	14:04
Mary Craig McNeal	She was very good.	14:04
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, would you walk to school when you were growing up?	14:05
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	14:07
Paul Ortiz	Would you say there was discrimination against Black children in terms of transportation?	14:13
Mary Craig McNeal	When we was going to school?	14:22
Paul Ortiz	Yes.	14:22
Mary Craig McNeal	No, 'cause only thing it was that we didn't live too very far from school and we could walk right down the railroad. That's the reason why we were walking.	14:26
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, what are your fondest memories of your school life?	14:40
Mary Craig McNeal	Let me see. You want to hear the truth? The fondest memories is if I passed and school was out for the three months. That was the fondest time. If I made the grade and I could run home and show that card to my mother, that was the fondest part about it.	14:44
Paul Ortiz	What was the difference between your education, Mrs. McNeal and your mother's education?	15:16
Mary Craig McNeal	A lot of difference, because she didn't learn. I mean, she couldn't go to school. She couldn't read or write.	15:25
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Then after Booker T. Washington, what came next?	15:34
Mary Craig McNeal	I got out of school about the 10th or 11th grade.	15:41
Paul Ortiz	Okay. What was next?	15:54
Mary Craig McNeal	Working.	15:56
Paul Ortiz	Where did you work at?	15:57
Mary Craig McNeal	Private homes.	15:58
Paul Ortiz	How did you receive your first job? How did you receive your first job?	16:03
Mary Craig McNeal	Through a friend of my mother's. A lady wanted somebody to babysit her kids and I started babysitting. Then from there on, I started working in private homes and a friend of mine told me about my last private home job. I worked there for about 15 years. Then I stopped working in private homes and went to where I retired from, Metro Uniform Company. I worked there for about 30 years.	16:12
Paul Ortiz	About 30 years?	16:44
Mary Craig McNeal	Yes.	16:45
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, could you talk about some of the different employers you had when you were working in private—?	16:53
Mary Craig McNeal	You mean at Metro?	17:00
Paul Ortiz	No, ma'am. When you were working in private homes—	17:05
Mary Craig McNeal	Homes. Oh, yeah, because the last woman, Ms. Hoffman, she acted as if I was just like her wife. I could stay there and with the kids, I could take my bath there. If she having party, she'd tell everybody, "This—" She called me her pride and joy. If I needed anything all I had to do was ask for it. I used to wear our clothes and she'd let me borrow her clothes and I wear them, and I'd bring them back, wash them and bring them back. So she was just a sweet person.	17:09
Paul Ortiz	Were there employers who weren't as sweet?	17:53
Mary Craig McNeal	No, it's some that wasn't as sweet, but they didn't treat me bad or nothing like that.	18:00
Paul Ortiz	Did you have friends who worked for employers who were bad employers?	18:06
Mary Craig McNeal	I had several girls that was talking about their employees and then they quit in private homes.	18:13
Paul Ortiz	Why would they quit?	18:23
Mary Craig McNeal	Because it would be too much work for the money they were paying them.	18:27
Paul Ortiz	I see. Were there cases where White employers would abuse Black workers?	18:30
Mary Craig McNeal	Not that I know of. Only thing they would do is just work them to death.	18:40
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, when you began working in the private home work, were you still living at home?	18:49
Mary Craig McNeal	At home, yeah. Mm-hmm.	18:56
Paul Ortiz	Okay. When did you move out?	18:58
Mary Craig McNeal	I moved out when I was something like pretty close to 20-years-old.	19:02
Paul Ortiz	Were you living in the same neighborhood?	19:09
Mary Craig McNeal	No, I was living over there on Washington Street off of Poplar, I mean, off of Cleveland.	19:12
Paul Ortiz	Is that considered North Memphis?	19:22
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, North Memphis. Mm-hmm.	19:26
Paul Ortiz	Now, what were the boundaries of that community?	19:29
Mary Craig McNeal	Some part of it was all right, and some part wasn't. If you go across Cleveland, that was rough. But on this end of Cleveland, it was all right.	19:37
Paul Ortiz	Were there parts of town when you were growing up that your parents and grandparents would tell you, "Don't go to that place?"	19:51
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, 'cause I just couldn't hardly get out nowhere period myself when I was growing up 'cause my grandmother was so strict on you. If you went, you had to go and come back. I know they let me went to a dance and I didn't get back on time and I just got a whooping. See?	20:06
Paul Ortiz	Uh-huh.	20:24
Mary Craig McNeal	But they kept up with you so close until if you went any place, you had to slip and go.	20:26
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, when you moved out and you were living in that neighborhood, where would you do your shopping at?	20:40
Mary Craig McNeal	If it was a neighborhood grocery store at the corner, that's where I'd do it at. Usually, there was a neighborhood grocery store probably at the corner.	20:52
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Was there also a place that you would have your hair done?	21:04
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, I had my hair done with a lady that had her beauty shop in her house. She did hair in her house over on Logan Street.	21:09
Paul Ortiz	I see. Would you ever go downtown to do shopping?	21:21
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, sometimes, 'cause downtown then was nothing but department stores practically such as Lowenstein's, Breezes and all that.	21:26
Paul Ortiz	Did you encounter segregation when you went shopping?	21:41
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	21:45
Paul Ortiz	Can you tell me about that?	21:49
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, a lot of times when we went shopping, we'd just be walking around looking and we had to wait until they come to wait on us. We'll sit and wait for we going to get some shoes, we had to wait.	21:55
Paul Ortiz	How did that make you feel?	22:11
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, at that time, I really didn't think too much about it then.	22:14
Paul Ortiz	When did you begin to see changes happening about then?	22:16
Mary Craig McNeal	Back when Dr. Martin Luther King started, they pulled their segregation up.	22:27
Paul Ortiz	I see. Mrs. McNeal, when did you get married?	22:40
Mary Craig McNeal	I got married December the 13th, 1950.	22:45
Paul Ortiz	Then how did you meet your husband?	22:55
Mary Craig McNeal	He was working at a grocery store and I was working in a private home across the street. The lady that I worked for, she shopped at that store and I usually have to go and pick up groceries.	22:58
Paul Ortiz	I see. After you were married, did you live in the same neighborhood or did you move?	23:14
Mary Craig McNeal	We moved. We lived over there on Mansfield then, but that was the same neighborhood that I practically was raised up in, though. I went back to the same neighborhood that I practically was raised up in. My husband went in service and he was in service for two years and six months.	23:22
Paul Ortiz	Was that during the Korean War?	23:48
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	23:49
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Did he go overseas?	24:02
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, he went to Germany.	24:03
Paul Ortiz	Did he ever talk about his experiences in the service?	24:06
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, he talked about it a little bit, but he didn't talk about it too much. He talked about it a little bit.	24:10
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, who would you say were the leaders of the Black community in Memphis during that time?	24:27
Mary Craig McNeal	I don't know. I can't remember that. Let's see. Back in the time that we were growing up?	24:49
Paul Ortiz	Uh-huh.	25:01
Mary Craig McNeal	I can't remember that. You mean like in school or anywhere?	25:04
Paul Ortiz	How about just in the neighborhood, who were the leaders?	25:07
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, it was a lady by the name of Ms. Rogers. She was a lead over there on Mansfield. She was a real good Christian lady, church-going lady. We all belonged to the same church, which was Greenwood CME Church.	25:14
Paul Ortiz	Was she a leader because she was the oldest person, or—?	25:41
Mary Craig McNeal	She was old, but she cared for kids and she tried to teach them the right direction.	25:44
Paul Ortiz	Did you meet with her or did you know her well?	25:58
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, we knowed her well and I know because she and my family was close friends too.	26:00
Paul Ortiz	I see. Were there other women who provided those roles in the '50s?	26:06
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah. My grandmother was dead then. Let me see. I can't remember this woman's name, but she was a role model for us. Her name was Sadie Douglas, but she was a real neighbor of my grandmother's and my mother's.	26:26
Paul Ortiz	What made her a leader?	27:08
Mary Craig McNeal	Because she would start up a little club for the kids so to keep them busy. If she had any work around the house and they wanted to make a little change, she would have them to do things for her.	27:11
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, in those days, what were the differences between men and women in terms of responsibilities?	27:34
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, to me, in those days, men, they was more responsible than they are now. They worked and provided but they don't do that like they do back then.	27:45
Paul Ortiz	How about in terms of leisure activities? What kinds of leisure activities would you and your husband and other women participate in?	27:59
Mary Craig McNeal	My husband loved ball games, so I would go with him to a ball game sometimes, and they had a ball game. They had the Memphis Chicks here Memphis and you could go to the Russwood Park and see the Chicks play ball.	28:17
Paul Ortiz	Were there other things that you would do during the weekend for fun?	28:29
Mary Craig McNeal	We'd go out every Friday night to eat and probably taking a movie and that was it.	28:46
Paul Ortiz	Which movie theaters would you go to in Memphis?	28:58
Mary Craig McNeal	We'd go downtown to the New Daisy on Beale Street Palace Theater.	29:00
Paul Ortiz	Were those segregated theaters?	29:09
Mary Craig McNeal	They was Black theaters, yeah.	29:11
Paul Ortiz	Oh, they were Black theaters.	29:13
Mary Craig McNeal	Uh-huh.	29:14
Paul Ortiz	Okay. So you could sit anywhere—	29:14
Mary Craig McNeal	Where, yeah. Mm-hmm.	29:16
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Is that why you'd go to those theaters?	29:18
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah. We went to one up on Main Street. The Black was upstairs and White were downstairs, was called the Princess Theater at one time.	29:22
Paul Ortiz	But you didn't go back?	29:36
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, we went there sometimes.	29:37
Paul Ortiz	Oh, sometimes.	29:38
Mary Craig McNeal	Mm-hmm.	29:38
Paul Ortiz	What were your favorite movies?	29:44
Mary Craig McNeal	My favorite movie was Humphrey Bogart. I forget the name of this picture. His wife played with him.	29:48
Paul Ortiz	Like Casablanca?	29:57
Mary Craig McNeal	Yes. Yeah. Yeah. My husband liked a lot of shoot-em-up like John Wayne and stuff like that.	29:58
Paul Ortiz	I see. Mrs. McNeal, what kinds of values did you teach your children?	30:10
Mary Craig McNeal	I don't have any children, but my brother have quite a bit of children, and I always try to teach them the right way to go. Right now, they call me and ask for advice and I try to give them the best that I know of.	30:22
Paul Ortiz	I see. During the '50s, Mrs. McNeal, would you use public transportation to get around?	30:37
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, buses. We had to sit in the bus in the back.	30:53
Paul Ortiz	How would that make you feel?	31:02
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, sometimes, you would get mad, but there was nothing you could do about it. You didn't feel so good about sitting way back in the back all the time. But it really and truly didn't matter to me 'cause I know I couldn't get up in the front, so I'd just go on back to the back.	31:06
Paul Ortiz	During those years, were there any Black people who you hear about who would challenge that?	31:24
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, some. They would ask them to move back.	31:29
Paul Ortiz	Then they wouldn't move back?	31:32
Mary Craig McNeal	They'll move back, but they'd have some words to say back.	31:36
Paul Ortiz	What kind of words were they saying?	31:42
Mary Craig McNeal	They'd be saying some curse words. They'd just be mumbling and going on, but they were bad.	31:46
Paul Ortiz	If you could judge, were the bus drivers rude people?	32:02
Mary Craig McNeal	Some of them. Some of them. They'll stop the bus and ask you to get up and go back in the back, Some of them.	32:06
Paul Ortiz	How about the police during that time?	32:16
Mary Craig McNeal	I don't know about them. I didn't have too much contact with them. I didn't have no contact with them period.	32:20
Paul Ortiz	Would you hear rumors about the police?	32:24
Mary Craig McNeal	No, not that I know of. But I would see them on the street, but I wouldn't be paying them no attention, 'cause they didn't bother me and I didn't bother them.	32:33
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Mrs. McNeal, during those years, which church were you attending?	32:43
Mary Craig McNeal	Greenwood CME Church.	32:54
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Now what role did the church play in your family's life?	32:55
Mary Craig McNeal	It's played quite a bit because my mother was, and my grandmother was a good worker in church. But now my grandmother's in church, what we call a family. Our family church was in Germantown Prospect. But now, I've been belonging to Greenwood ever since I've been in Memphis, frankly.	33:06
Paul Ortiz	I see.	33:30
Mary Craig McNeal	I used to usher in church and my mother, she was a stewardess. She used to go out with the pastor and give sacrament and go to see the sick.	33:34
Paul Ortiz	Did you participate in activities in church?	33:52
Mary Craig McNeal	I used to usher. I was an usher in church.	33:55
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, during those years, what were the things that were most inspiring to you that helped you get through the time to reach your goals?	34:12
Mary Craig McNeal	I guess what most inspired me, I guess the way that my mother and my father raised us up. You work, I know you had to work. She taught me to work and whatever you get, you had to work for it. You don't steal it, you work for it. I guess that's what inspired me.	34:30
Paul Ortiz	In your lifetime here in Memphis, what have been the major changes?	34:48
Mary Craig McNeal	The major changes from the time back in the '50s?	35:07
Paul Ortiz	Yes, ma'am.	35:10
Mary Craig McNeal	The major change is when you could get on the bus and sit where you want to or go to a cafeteria or a café or lunch place and eat and sit where you want to, and you'd be served as a human being and not as a Black person.	35:14
Paul Ortiz	What were some of the other changes that you witnessed and have thought about?	35:29
Mary Craig McNeal	Let me see now. I don't know. Only thing I know that some of the changes is that you can act like you want to act. You don't have to be scared of nobody doing this to you as long as you're doing the right thing.	35:52
Paul Ortiz	Oh, I know. I forgot to ask, Mrs. McNeal. After you worked in private homes, you said you worked in another job?	36:20
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, Metro. Metro Uniform Company.	36:28
Paul Ortiz	Okay. What kind of job were you doing there?	36:39
Mary Craig McNeal	I was checking, checking clothes. It's a rental place. The men's and women's rentals, they rent they pants and shirts and you have to put them together and check them off the ticket.	36:41
Paul Ortiz	Then how did you receive that job?	37:07
Mary Craig McNeal	Through my cousin of mines. I went there to work for a while and then the boss liked me and he kept me on there.	37:07
Paul Ortiz	So you had a long work experience there?	37:14
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	37:16
Paul Ortiz	I see. Were the people that worked at Metro Uniform primarily Black people?	37:21
Mary Craig McNeal	Most of them was Black, but it was a few White, but they didn't work downstairs. They worked up in the office, but the most Black worked downstairs where it was so hot.	37:28
Paul Ortiz	So it sounds like there were some challenging conditions.	37:43
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah. Yeah.	37:47
Paul Ortiz	What was it like to work there?	37:49
Mary Craig McNeal	I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. For the 30 years that I worked there, I really enjoyed it because I knew I had to work and that was just as good as any place else, I thought. At first, we started off with making $28 a week and finally we got a union in there and that was a little bit better.	37:56
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. When did you organize the union?	38:14
Mary Craig McNeal	We organized the union somewhere, I guess, in the '70s.	38:17
Paul Ortiz	Oh, I see.	38:24
Mary Craig McNeal	No, we organized the union before then, because we went on strike in '68, 1968.	38:28
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. I'm really interested in labor. I'm glad you told me that. Which union did you—	38:39
Mary Craig McNeal	Oh, well, we used to work six days a week for $28 a week and some holidays, but the union improved it where we had holidays and every three years you would get a raise. Then they couldn't fire you, like just walk around and say, "I don't like you, go home." If they did, the union could make them put you back to work.	38:50
Paul Ortiz	Did that kind of firing happen before?	39:19
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah.	39:21
Paul Ortiz	Oh, I see. Would there ever be racial reasons, like say, a White supervisor?	39:22
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, it would be some White supervisors that didn't like some Blacks and so sometimes that would be the cause of it.	39:30
Paul Ortiz	What was the name of the union, Mrs. McNeal?	39:37
Mary Craig McNeal	Oh, I done forgot. I get the retirement check from the union every month. I done forgot.	39:49
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. Did you approach the union?	39:55
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, yeah. They had a top man would come out and talk to you. His name was Lonzo Robinson.	40:05
Paul Ortiz	Lonzo Robinson? Did he talk to you in the factory?	40:18
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah, he would talk to us in the factory.	40:20
Paul Ortiz	What were the major changes that you saw after you organized?	40:31
Mary Craig McNeal	You didn't have to work on the holidays and you had a certain time you supposed to get off. If you worked over that certain time, you get paid for it. They just couldn't dog you around like they usually do.	40:36
Paul Ortiz	Did you have seniority from that time?	41:00
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah. You had to go by seniority to get vacation or something like that. If you was there from 20 years, you get three weeks vacation. From five to 10 years, you get two weeks vacation. From five to 15 years, you get two weeks vacation.	41:04
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Mrs. McNeal, had you ever been involved in union activity before then?	41:32
Mary Craig McNeal	Not before then.	41:38
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Well, 1968 was an interesting year for union activity.	41:38
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah.	41:58
Paul Ortiz	With the sanitation workers—	41:58
Mary Craig McNeal	Workers.	41:58
Paul Ortiz	— striking.	41:58
Mary Craig McNeal	Sure was.	41:58
Paul Ortiz	Did you know anyone who was involved in the sanitation workers, or—	41:58
Mary Craig McNeal	Now, I have a friend of mine had a husband that worked at the sanitation department, Hazel McGee's husband. He worked there and he was on track with the sanitation part because she worked with us. When we was on track, they come over and walked with us.	42:03
Paul Ortiz	Were you on strike about the same time?	42:24
Mary Craig McNeal	No, we was on strike when they went on strike.	42:26
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. So you were on strike before—	42:30
Mary Craig McNeal	Before the sanitation, uh-huh.	42:31
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. I see.	42:34
Paul Ortiz	How long did your strike last for?	42:36
Mary Craig McNeal	I'd say about six months, 'cause we went off, we started striking in May and we settled our strike somewhere in December. We went back to work the first of January.	42:39
Paul Ortiz	I see. How did you survive during the strike?	42:55
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, the union would give you $15 a week and then I had help with my husband and my mother.	43:05
Paul Ortiz	Was the Black community supportive of the strike?	43:14
Mary Craig McNeal	Yeah. Some of them would bring us sandwiches and stuff up there and we could sit on their porch out the sun. They'd fix us water and stuff like that.	43:18
Paul Ortiz	At Metro Uniform, well, it sounds like it was a six-month strike. So the company at first doesn't sound like they wanted a union there.	43:39
Mary Craig McNeal	No, they didn't want no union at first 'cause they fired the girl that got the union in there. So no, they didn't want no union because they wasn't paying for $28. They had you working from six days a week and even on holidays sometimes.	43:48
Paul Ortiz	What was her name, the person who was the lead organizer?	44:08
Mary Craig McNeal	Hazel McGee.	44:12
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. Do you know if she is still alive?	44:13
Mary Craig McNeal	Yes. She live on Cambridge, I think.	44:22
Paul Ortiz	Cambridge?	44:24
Mary Craig McNeal	Cambridge, uh-huh. She retired.	44:28
Paul Ortiz	I would love to interview her. Do you know her still?	44:35
Mary Craig McNeal	I know where she stay, but I've got a telephone number, but it's at home. I don't have it with me.	44:36
Paul Ortiz	Uh-huh. I'm coming back next Wednesday. Do you think you could—	44:42
Mary Craig McNeal	I could get it, probably. I'd probably—	44:46
Paul Ortiz	Okay. I'd greatly appreciate that. Mrs. McNeal, looking back on that time, during the time of segregation, what are your opinions about it?	44:46
Mary Craig McNeal	Well, my opinion about it. I couldn't see why we had to do all of this, how we was segregated, because White peoples have always been over Black peoples. I know just like in the country when my grandfather and my uncles them was a farm or something, that little money that they made, they had to pay the man. When you know anything, they didn't have anything 'cause every year, they had to go back and borrow, at least my uncle did. My grandfather didn't.	45:11
Paul Ortiz	It sounds like it was some tough times.	45:48
Mary Craig McNeal	Times, it was.	45:50
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. McNeal, is there anything that you'd like to add before we conclude?	46:00
Mary Craig McNeal	No, I just enjoyed telling this.	46:07
Paul Ortiz	Well, I really enjoyed talking and hearing it.	46:12

Item Info

Title:

Mary McNeal interview recording, 1995 June 22

Date:

June 22, 1995

Creator:

McNeal, Mary Craig

Contributor:

Ortiz, Paul

Description:

Name: Mary Craig McNeal; Date of birth: 1922-05-01; Place of birth: Bailey, TN; Occupation(s): manufacturer; domestic; Residence: Memphis, TN
Informant ID: 857; Interviewed by: Paul Ortiz.

Occupation:

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

See below

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-0898
4ab2fde9-9d48-41e4-903d-c2e178477a21
behindtheveil
62cfae18-c2df-47b5-bed9-8b22862177a4
ark:/87924/r4z60qb00
62cfae18-c2df-47b5-bed9-8b22862177a4

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Mary McNeal interview recording, 1995 June 22

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Item Info

1. Mary McNeal administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Mary McNeal interview recording, 1995 June 22

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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