Demetrice Lyles interview recording, 1994 July 22

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Tywanna Whorley	Okay. Mr. Lyles, when were you born?	0:06
Demetrice Irving Lyles	In 1922. August 2nd.	0:15
Tywanna Whorley	Okay. All right. You said that you grew up in Hale County?	0:15
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Uh-huh.	0:15
Tywanna Whorley	Can you tell me about Hale County?	0:15
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I really didn't go back home for visitation no more than probably once or twice a year. I really worked during the school year and also during the summers here at Tuskegee University. It was Tuskegee Institute then. But I really was in commercial [indistinct 00:00:55]. Then in 1942, I went to the Army. I was drafted into the army, and I was in the southwest Pacific area of operations with the 93rd Division.	0:23
Tywanna Whorley	Was the Army segregated?	1:20
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yeah, the armed forces was segregated then. They did have a few Black officers, but they had a majority of White officers.	1:25
Tywanna Whorley	How was it being over there in the South Pacific with White officers?	1:34
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I didn't come in contact with too many of the White officers. I was mostly in contact with enlisted men and also the next people in command. I worked as a company clerk, making out payrolls and insurance forms and things of this nature, and family allotments and things of this nature. That was primarily it. But I worked in headquarters, which was the headquarters company for the division. I was in a medical battalion, and it was Company C, but the officers in my outfit were MDs. Most of these were Black officers, but they were MDs.	1:40
Tywanna Whorley	When you first got drafted, knowing the conditions that Blacks had faced in the United States, how did it make you feel knowing people [indistinct 00:02:57]?	2:45
Demetrice Irving Lyles	At that time I wasn't necessarily attuned to this big difference, because I think what you accustom yourself to is a way of life that existed, and you molded into that way of life. I didn't experience—What should I say? I knew there was segregation of my—In grammar school, for example, before coming to Tuskegee, up to the sixth grade my cousin really was a teacher. I don't know whether she had a degree or not, but I know she had been to Alabama State University. Not Alabama State. It was Alabama College then. That's what it was known as then. Back then the teacher drove in her buggy to school, and we had to walk to school for about—I think it was a mile or two mile. The creeks and water was really running. Sometime when it rained real hard, you would have to jump the creek to get across, and sometimes you'd get wet. But I don't remember. I just remember the water.	3:02
Demetrice Irving Lyles	But I remember during the early part of my life. I remember fishing, going to the lakes, because we lived down about a mile from the Warrior River, which is the river that runs I think it's from Tuscaloosa to the Tombigbee. My father worked on the river then. My mother and the rest of the family, there were about eight of us in the family, and we ran the farm. But we were self-sufficient. We were self-sufficient. We had the [indistinct 00:05:47] farm which was owned by my grandparent. I don't think we knew as much about or learned as much about—I was child number six, I believe, six or seven in the family out of eight.	4:50
Demetrice Irving Lyles	My mother died about the year that I was a student at Tuskegee the first year, and my father, of course, married again. But in the meantime I married too soon. I call it too soon, because I got married in 1946. I was discharged from the Army after spending some time overseas. I spent about 32 months overseas in this position as company clerk really.	6:16
Demetrice Irving Lyles	They asked me to take over a sergeant role as a company cook, but I said, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no." I didn't want to be bothered with cooking, because I know that would be the first thing that they would knock on would be the cooks or that company. So I stayed with personnel service. But I did learn how to type, and I picked up on typing and stuff like that. I learned how to write letters. This thing, there was certain letter formats that you wrote. But this is what we did during World War II.	7:17
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Now after World War II, I returned to Tuskegee University as a first year student in the veterinary class. That is in the first class. I'm a member of the first class of the veterinary profession. The first year I was getting nothing but A's and B's, but it was the second year that I had some problems in physiology. I don't know why I had problems with physiol—Don't ask me. But the teacher was asking five questions, and you had to make at least a 77 in order to get a C. 77 to 85 was a C, and 85 to 93 was a B. The grading system was not changed until, I guess, I became a member of the faculty. I understood the reason for having a higher standard of grading, but at the same time I realized that a certain number of students were being—what is it—flunked out because they were not reaching a certain level.	8:17
Tywanna Whorley	Did they say why, the reason for the high—	9:59
Demetrice Irving Lyles	It was not always explained. I know the faculty at that time felt that they were not going to graduate nothing but the best. So there were only four of us out of 13 that finished from that class. There were about 13 that started with me. On time, I should say. But two individuals came back and finished. Yes, but they finished maybe a year or two later.	10:02
Demetrice Irving Lyles	But the first classes were—There were certain things at that time on Tuskegee University's campus that we did with holding onto the—I should pass tradition, for example, that the men sat on one side and the women sat on one side of chapel.	10:48
Tywanna Whorley	Really?	11:17
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Mm-hm. The men sit on one side, and we roll our—We didn't think anything about it. We were really a militaristic kind of institution then, because the men were—I don't know what they call it. We had a blue uniform. It was an Army-like uniform. The girls wore—They had their long blue capes with the red interior. Oh, it was really beautiful. Then at founders day celebrations and all these celebration, it was really a big affair. But now it's gotten down to nobody's there except the few faculty who march and maybe—Yes, they have instituted convocations and some of the days that we have to wear academic regalia.	11:19
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Of course, we have a new chapel now. The old chapel, historical chapel, was much—I wouldn't say it's much nicer either, but to me it was very beautiful because it had this moss green carpeting and they always had the palms decorated stage. Dr. Carver was still alive.	12:44
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Dr. Carver, when I arrived on the campus in 1941, was still alive, and I was in commercial [indistinct 00:13:22]. Mrs. Jones, my then director of the teachers' cafeteria where I worked, used to occasionally take us down to visit Dr. Carver. Dr. Carver liked to—He looks grumbly when he got old, but he would cook his bread pudding. So we sampled his bread pudding. I eventually became a guinea pig of his rubbing peanut oil on. That was one other thing. But Dr. Carver was somewhat of a recluse. He was not the kind of individual that I got close to or nothing like that. When you saw some on the campus—Or sometime he would be in his very dark regalia with his collecting branches of surgery and things of this nature. But at that time, he also was experimenting with a lot of pigments for paints made out of clay.	13:14
Demetrice Irving Lyles	What else about the campus? Tuskegee University has always had well thought of presidents. I guess that's how we have to speak of them. I was with the university as a student under Patterson and also under Dr. Foster. But Dr. Foster became president, I think, at the time that I became a faculty person. So when I finished veterinary school in 1949, I went to practice in Louisville, Kentucky. Dr. Williams, who the then dean, asked me to come back. He invited me to join the faculty, pathology department. So I started out in the Department of Pathology as the crops technician. I guess you wouldn't call it a technicians. Doing the crops is I would say. I also taught special pathology.	14:58
Demetrice Irving Lyles	My advanced degree is, which was received in 1958, which is a master's at Ohio State University and a PhD, also in parasitology in 1969. You might ask the question. I didn't think that the way they were issuing out rank on campus, rank and tenure but most of the rank, was based on your degrees, so it was writing on the wall that I should go back and get my [indistinct 00:17:36] degree. This was one of the reasons I went back. Not that it would make me a better instructor, but that it would make a difference in my salary.	16:29
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Because I first started out making $3,800. This was in the year 1949. I was making $3,800, but this was what the government was paying veterinarians in doing meat inspection. So this was a beginning point I should say. But you wouldn't do that now. So the faculty as such—I suppose that I've stayed, because each year you fall in love with a group of students and so you end up staying. I could do as I wanted to do more or less, within regulations of course, and my duties and responsibilities was not too restricted or nothing like that. So I do think that I had more freedom in that area.	17:54
Tywanna Whorley	I want to ask you about, do you remember any of the Founders' Day [indistinct 00:19:35]?	19:28
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I remember the Founders' Day activity of our recent years of President Reagan, Bush before he became president. Let me see what else. What's here?	19:39
Tywanna Whorley	What about, you remember in the '40s? You don't—	19:59
Demetrice Irving Lyles	In the '40s, I think I—I'm not exactly sure whether the parents and the people involved now have the proper respect for Founders Day or graduation exercises now. It used to be a time that if you entered into any services, everybody was completely quiet and there was not a whole lot of other kinds of activities going on. When you received your degree, everybody sat down and waited until all the degrees were handed out.	20:23
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I think this is probably the biggest things that I have seen in as far as graduation exercise. But as far as some of the other speakers, we had some of them, Dr. Proctor. We had also some very outstanding Black ministers, for example, who were powerful and tremendous as far as their speaking was concerned. I'm not exactly sure whether we get the kind of speakers that may be needed for the occasion. For example, last year, I'm sure that the president was—Maybe I shouldn't say. I'm sure the president felt that he was being very nice in selecting our—Who was the speaker last year?	21:23
Marie	For what, Honey?	22:56
Demetrice Irving Lyles	For our commencement. Was it Dr. Waters?	22:57
Marie	[indistinct 00:23:02]-	22:59
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Poet laureate.	23:01
Marie	Right. Rita Dove.	23:03
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yeah.	23:07
Tywanna Whorley	Oh. She's [indistinct 00:23:08].	23:07
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yeah. But I don't know. Her speech did not lead up to what I would say to be the kind of respect for the occasion. It might have been another kind of occasion that her poem and speeches and things could have been given. This is no disrespect to the lady, because he's a poet laureate, but in general, I do think that some of our better preachers and presidents have given them more outstanding speeches for the occasion.	23:08
Tywanna Whorley	Can you remember one from back in '40s and '50s?	24:16
Demetrice Irving Lyles	No, I can't remember. I can't remember.	24:23
Tywanna Whorley	When you graduated, who spoke? Do you know?	24:26
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I don't even remember that. Listen, I don't know whether Dr. Patterson spoke or not. I don't think so. He may have been.	24:31
Tywanna Whorley	I wanted to ask you. You said you were a guinea pig for Dr. Carver with the peanut oil. How did that come about? Did he ask you to do it?	24:50
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yeah, he was just rubbing peanut oil on muscles. I didn't know what he was looking for.	24:51
Tywanna Whorley	Next thing I wanted to ask you about was the case about voting here.	24:51
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Oh, yes. What year was that? During the '50s, most of the Blacks were gerrymandered out of the city, and most of us could not vote. For example, I went down there to vote several times, at least one or two times. So it was not until we appeared before the Civil Rights Commission in Montgomery, on voting, that we were able to become franchise again. This was a big problem that we had to overcome with the voting. Another thing that we have had to overcome as far as voting is concerned is that although we tend to vote for other Black people instead of maybe people who might do the best job or something like that, we may not necessarily be getting the best job by that way of voting.	25:15
Tywanna Whorley	Going to ask you just your personal accounts. You said you went down and tried to register to vote. How did that come about, you being involved with the case and stuff with the other people going court?	26:50
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I would just call in to testify. That's what it was, by the Civil Rights Commission. By the way, I just had surgery on my neck. Of course, I'm having little problems in speaking here, but I think I'm doing a little better anyway.	27:09
Tywanna Whorley	Yeah. After surgery [indistinct 00:27:33]. You're okay. But actually I was reading your transcript from the court case. Justin had a copy of it. It said you went in 1953 [indistinct 00:27:54].	27:33
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Now, I don't know what happened to my copy. I'm sure Justin saves everything, as he and his wife save everything. But I have a tendency—What is it? I don't know what happened to my copy, but for some reason I don't have a copy of that Civil Rights Commission.	27:55
Tywanna Whorley	At any time, were you afraid that—Because when I was talking to Mr. Lee about the desegregation in school case—Were you afraid for the job when people found out that you were [indistinct 00:28:32]—	28:20
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I was never afraid on my job because of my participation in the Civil Rights situation. First of all, I don't think that I was involved in the Civil Rights marches that much. For example, while I was away at Ohio State University, I think my kids were involved in maybe some of the marches and whatnot. When I got back here in the South, they had undergone much of the turmoil and much of the fear that terrorized people. For example, I still had my fears that there were places that I didn't go or may not have been welcome and I didn't go. You see? Whereas, they had overcome this, and they felt freer to move about.	28:32
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I do remember in Tuscaloosa, for example, when they—I was still in service. I was up to visit a girlfriend of mine who was in school at Alabama. I came back and I was on this—This was just before I was going in the service. I was on this bus, and they made all the Black people to stand up, even get to the back of the bus. This was humiliating to me. This was one of the most humiliating type of situations that you get into, which I was really out of my medium. Is there such a thing? I was not in my mixture, because, see, although Tuskegee was in a segregated South, it was an oasis where everything took place on the campus.	30:03
Demetrice Irving Lyles	The little town, for example, the Propeller Club, which I want to celebrate maybe in '95, was a club where occasionally we attended, and I think I was a student then. But this was where all of the big bands played. We had Count Basie. We had Louie Armstrong. We had—What is this guy's name? He was one of the big band era. Duke Ellington. Nat King Cole Trio. It was really good. It was really the best of the best. But since then, I think what we have done, we have lost something in the process of integration. We've lost some of the togetherness as a racial mix, the richness in the music and heritage.	31:19
Tywanna Whorley	Where was this club at?	32:57
Demetrice Irving Lyles	The club no longer exists. Mr. Bulls, who was the proprietor at that time, had renovated a barn into a nightclub. The barn had had a big propeller right in the middle of the stage and a table on its side. But it was really nice. It was really nice, luxurious-like in effect. They had the best of the best as far as—In Tuskegee then was a—What you would say? It was a celebrity type of atmosphere at the time. Although you had very poor Blacks, but you also had very elegant Blacks during that particular period.	32:58
Tywanna Whorley	You remember any of them?	34:08
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I remember Lena Horne during that period. She came through here like that. She used to entertain the GIs. She's one of the persons that I would like to give a lifetime achievement award. This is just a part of the Alpha's program for this next year. I would like to give award to Mr. Bulls. He's no longer in existence. He's dead. Mr. Anderson, who our first pioneer in flight, who taught the flights, people in airplanes. Who else is on the list? Also, the Tuskegee Airmen. These are the three groups that I would like to get back in for this celebration. I don't know whether it will come off, because so many of the young Alphas don't know what the Propeller Club was. So I don't have the enthusiasm. I'm just going to have to generate it somehow, so we can get to working on this.	34:13
Tywanna Whorley	How much did it cost to get into the Propeller Club?	36:01
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I don't even remember that. I don't remember that. But it wasn't expensive. I don't think it was all that expensive. Because if I got out there for some reason, it was reasonable.	36:04
Tywanna Whorley	Was it accessible to everybody, the Propeller Club?	36:23
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yeah, even Whites.	36:23
Tywanna Whorley	Really?	36:23
Demetrice Irving Lyles	When Nat King Cole was—Oh, Whites was dancing out there on the floor. It doesn't mean that you couldn't dance. Whites could always do what they wanted to do, but Blacks could not always do what they wanted to.	36:32
Tywanna Whorley	When they came in, were there people inside looking out the door like, "Why are they coming in here"?	36:55
Demetrice Irving Lyles	No, I don't think so. Tuskegee University was never a school of—We always had—I shouldn't say we always had. We had White faculty during that period. We could have had White students at that time, because I remember some Jewish individuals tried to get into veterinary school and they couldn't get into veterinary school because of segregation. You can get in now, of course, but at that time, you couldn't. But prior—Marie, do you know when we got our first White students?	37:03
Marie	[indistinct 00:38:11]?	38:08
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yes.	38:11
Marie	No, I wasn't here so it had to be prior to 1977.	38:12
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Something like that. It may have been. I can't tell you for sure. You would have to check the books on that. This is Mrs. Lyles.	38:22
Mrs. Lyles	How you doing?	38:34
Marie	I'm fine. [indistinct 00:38:38]	38:37
Mrs. Lyles	Yes, that's right.	38:39
Demetrice Irving Lyles	By the way, she is from University of Virginia. I don't know why I got the idea that she was from Duke University.	38:43
Mrs. Lyles	I thought that's what she said, too.	38:50
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I thought—	38:50
Tywanna Whorley	Actually, I'm doing a program. It's basically 10 students doing an intern with Duke University.	38:50
Mrs. Lyles	Okay, we got it right.	38:50
Demetrice Irving Lyles	We got it right.	38:50
Tywanna Whorley	We're all from different schools. She is [indistinct 00:39:04]. He graduated from Tuskegee. I'm going to say in the '70s.	38:50
Mrs. Lyles	You're doing something on the entire Tuskegee University? Is that-	39:14
Tywanna Whorley	The university and the community and also [indistinct 00:39:22].	39:18
Mrs. Lyles	Oh, okay.	39:21
Demetrice Irving Lyles	When—	39:21
Mrs. Lyles	I mentioned this last night to one of our choir members. Our director, her husband is Ian Miller. He grew up in this community and worked for the university [indistinct 00:39:40] and so forth. You might be interested in speaking with him. She was the one who suggested it when I told her you were coming here. Their telephone number is 727-1712. The name is Ian Miller. He's past 80 years of age. His mother lived to be over 100. He's always lived within the shadow of the campus.	39:26
Tywanna Whorley	Okay. Thank you.	40:11
Mrs. Lyles	You're wired up, huh?	40:11
Demetrice Irving Lyles	LA Green is another one of those individuals of this community. He was an—	40:22
Mrs. Lyles	He administrated the VA hospital.	40:31
Demetrice Irving Lyles	— administrator out at VA hospital.	40:34
Mrs. Lyles	I don't have his telephone number. Just name.	40:39
Tywanna Whorley	Do you remember when you first became [indistinct 00:40:49] after the case had been settled?	40:49
Demetrice Irving Lyles	It was after the case had been settled. It was after that. Because I remember it. I was up just looking at my registration form not so long ago. It's probably in that box.	41:05
Tywanna Whorley	This one right here?	41:18
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Uh, huh.	41:19
Tywanna Whorley	When you went to register the first time, first of all, what made you want to register? I think it was in the transcript, and it seemed kind of silly for them to ask you in court why you wanted to vote.	41:24
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yeah. I think we all were a little nervous on that occasion—at least, I was—and probably at all, because of the dynamics which were taking place then. I would say that I was not necessarily in the forefront of the Civil Rights movement then, because I think WP Mitchell was one of the key witnesses at this occasion and some other individuals. So I was way on down on low end of the totem pole as far as being a key witness. It just that I was probably one of the people who had finished college that was on—I don't know what all this stuff is about.	41:45
Tywanna Whorley	See here [indistinct 00:43:10].	43:09
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I think what has happened is that been skewed for an artist. That is skewed. There's another type of resume. Marie, do you know where my old resume is?	43:10
Marie	Your what?	43:33
Demetrice Irving Lyles	My old resume.	43:35
Marie	Your old resume? Yeah. [indistinct 00:43:50]	43:50
Tywanna Whorley	It might have been [indistinct 00:43:51] a little bit.	43:50
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I don't know. I don't think so. Elaine Thomas, who was then the curator of the art museum and also the art instructor on the campus, invited me to come to her art class.	43:55
Mrs. Lyles	She might be one [indistinct 00:44:17] she was born and raised in Tuskegee. Her number is 727-3456.	44:21
Demetrice Irving Lyles	She an old-time. Oh, Marie?	44:28
Mrs. Lyles	Now, I don't know where your professional resume is. I just have this.	44:33
Demetrice Irving Lyles	We might need that in a few weeks.	44:39
Mrs. Lyles	Is this the one that's [indistinct 00:44:50]?	44:44
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yeah.	44:44
Mrs. Lyles	Oh, okay.	44:44
Demetrice Irving Lyles	By the way, this is my discharge from the Asiatic Pacific Theater.	44:54
Mrs. Lyles	You're looking for your voter registration?	45:04
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I don't think so.	45:05
Tywanna Whorley	Isn't that sheet a real copy?	45:05
Demetrice Irving Lyles	That's okay. I was Demetrias Lyles, T-R-I-A-S, on my birth certificate. All my records said D-E-M-E-T-R-I-C-E, and in high school somebody gave me a middle initial, so I had to go back and amend my birth certificate.	45:29
Tywanna Whorley	When you [indistinct 00:46:30]?	46:30
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Mm-hm.	46:30

Demetrice Irving Lyles	See it, now that you—I don't remember. I don't think I was on the five year program.	0:02
Tywanna Whorley	Oh, when your school [indistinct 00:00:24].	0:11
Demetrice Irving Lyles	They were all Black. I don't see it there.	0:11
Tywanna Whorley	I know we discussed elections with you earlier.	0:11
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Mm-mm. I don't remember that.	0:11
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:01:12] Doctor Gamillion?	1:12
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yes. He was a member of my church, Washington Chapel Church. Family church.	1:30
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:01:38].	1:36
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Oh, Dr. Gamillion was very smart. He was a very nice man. He is a very serious kind of personality.	1:41
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:02:02].	1:53
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Well, Dr. Gamillion was one of those civil rights forerunners. So he was into, what should I say? A whole lot of activities where maybe the school may have been a little bit concerned for either his safety or they may have been concerned about the activity. I don't know. Because we have, Tuskee, some of its faculty have not always been, what should I say? Always upfront. For example, I remember there was a person in my department who was supposed to have been a communist, and I'm not so sure whether that affected me by not getting a fellowship to, what is that place out in California?	2:01
Tywanna Whorley	Stanford?	3:35
Demetrice Irving Lyles	No, it's not Stanford. It's a radiation laboratory. A radiation laboratory. I've forgotten the name of that. I've forgotten the name of it. I can't think of the place now. But it is a laboratory. It's a radiation laboratory. And we would go out there—Well I didn't ever to get out there and I did make an application, but I never did receive nothing which says that I was either rejected or not, one or the other. So I couldn't say exactly what was the factor. But I do know that when I got to Ohio State, a man came up, I think he was FBI individual. He wanted to ask me about—	3:39
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:04:56].	4:52
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I don't know what he was looking at. Oh, it was some property that we had in the country. My grandparents owned about 250 acres, and they were trying to get a lease on—It's a road to lock seven, to that. And he came to me looking for that evidence. But I also felt that there may have been something else too that I didn't know about. But I told him that there was a faculty member in the microbiology laboratory who was supposed to have been a communist.	4:57
Demetrice Irving Lyles	And so just by my association with this individual, they may have accused me of being a communist and not willing to participate. But I really didn't know anything about the man. I know his wife was kind of friendly with my wife, but I know that he didn't want his kids to take up some courses in—Some kind of courses up there on the campus. That was at the high school level. But other than that, everything seemed to be okay.	5:48
Tywanna Whorley	How was your relationship with the community [indistinct 00:06:46]?	6:37
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Well, there really was not too much relationship other than—Because I remember you having Blacks schools and White school. I might say that—	6:49
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:07:19] OR just personal how do you feel and if you did [indistinct 00:07:29].	7:19
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Well, I don't think he would treated any different from any other than—I do remember buying some material or buying some furniture at one of the stores downtown, and then later on, we were supposed to get someone to vouch for us on the voting thing. Somebody was supposed to vouch for you in order for you to vote. And I know the lady and her husband did not vouch for me, because they said that, well they didn't do that. That was the probably the only, what should I say? Only hint of anything that was on the unusual as far as the registry was concerned.	7:36
Tywanna Whorley	I don't know if you know, was that the same [indistinct 00:08:39]?	8:35
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I don't think so. I don't think so. I never did hear, there was never any problem least I don't think there was ever any problem with regards to Whites voting. But there were problem regarding Blacks who could not vote in the city election.	8:43
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:09:16] What happened when Blacks—'Cause I heard some people [indistinct 00:09:24].	9:18
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Well, I'm sure. I can assume that there was some brutality as far as Blacks were concerned, but I was never in the position of to be harassed. That's what you might say. So it doesn't mean that, it just means that if you minded your own business, everything went okay, I guess. But I don't remember having any problems one way or the other.	9:30
Tywanna Whorley	Is this when you [indistinct 00:10:30].	10:16
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yes, I've lived here from probably 1954, I think. Yeah. 1954. This house has been modified. This was a carport, and I put the flooring in this room. Of course, that wall was the living room. That was the extent of the living room in there. And I put the other wall in the foyer and the kitchen's in the same—The only thing is that it had been modified. In the '70s, we added the room on the back. I really wanted to move out of this house, but at that time, my wife wanted to, she wanted to stay put. She claimed all the kids were—They were not all born here though.	10:29
Tywanna Whorley	So the teachers who worked at Tuskegee [indistinct 00:11:51] middle class?	11:47
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I suppose you could put it, well, not exactly middle class. Yeah, middle class, I guess. I don't know what you—Yeah, middle class from the standpoint of education, I think. If you want to look at middle class from standpoint of that.	11:57
Tywanna Whorley	I mean, [indistinct 00:12:28].	12:17
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I think most of them were middle class. However, the thing is, what do you mean by middle class in that the kids were able to go to school, to colleges. I have have five children. A daughter who teaches in Mansville, Pennsylvania. She teaches in math. And a daughter in Auburn, Alabama who teaches math and computer science. I think she's on the PhD program at Auburn University. And then a daughter who's assistant principal in Fuquay, North Carolina. And a son who's electrical engineer in Virginia. He's out of Baltimore though. So I think he's awaiting to be moved. He's one of these moving around type of individual. And my son, who is still here, his wife is still in school. I think she finishes in August, in some form of computer technology. Because she just changed her job as a result of it.	12:28
Tywanna Whorley	One last [indistinct 00:14:33]. You said [indistinct 00:14:39]. What changed [indistinct 00:14:40]? What changed [indistinct 00:14:44] in Tuskeegee?	14:32
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Well I would say Tuskee is like a retirement community now. The young and experienced have moved on to other areas. Only the old remains stationary. What else is—We now have to have security on our houses going on. I remember when we moved out here, we didn't have to lock up the house and we went away to Montgomery, which is about 30 something miles away. We didn't have that problem. So now I've gotten a—I think two years ago I put these windows in, and just recently, I decided to put in a security system. You saw me hitting on the buttons and thing. That's the big difference.	14:43
Demetrice Irving Lyles	And I would say that we lost our hospital, which is most important to community of this size. Our educational systems are not the very best. What else do I want to tell? I think that that's basically the things that—And maybe at the time when my kids were young, everybody was going to church. Now I think we have lost our religion in the process. 'Course, this is not Black America. I think Americans in general. I think the question now is whether or not the elitist or the intellectuals have lost their religion.	16:07
Demetrice Irving Lyles	This country was founded on that particular basis, is whether we have lost our religion and at the same time, we have lost this major value. This is a major value. It's a major moral value that we are supposed to pass on. We are not passing on to our youth, and our youth are coming up doing or feeling they can do everything. And that's about the gist of it.	17:32
Tywanna Whorley	So in turn over these, some of the things you would like to see changed?	18:12
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I think that would be some of the things. The economy system, I would like to see turned around. The moral standards, I would like to see turned around. I just want you to go to church and be a good citizen. I think the church, first of all, has to be seen as a teachers of values. Values that are going to take you through life and help you to feel that it is not all discrimination and this, that, and the other which keep you from not performing. I want to see you perform to up to your maximum. Irregardless. You have to perform. That's where I want you to be.	18:17
Tywanna Whorley	Would you say that also about the [indistinct 00:19:29] in terms of closeness?	19:19
Demetrice Irving Lyles	Yeah. We used to be very close. We used to play bridge once a week on weekend. We used to play bridge. Oh, we partied. We had our parties too. We had our parties up until 3:00 and 4:00 and we had breakfast afterwards. This was the situation. And we were not smoking pot and we were not doing a whole lot of drinking after hours, after we left the party. But I think we enjoyed our—We had a good time. My son sometime comes around, he says, "I don't know why you get all this energy to do the things that you do." But I feel up and invigorated. Well I noticed—Well, of course, he's not doing too well in his marriage now. I don't know just what is going to happen. But it's just gotten out to the point where they should be doing very nice. Now his wife says she's tired of marriage. Now, I think she needs to see a psychiatrist.	19:33
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:21:25].	21:15
Demetrice Irving Lyles	I don't know whether I've given you any information.	21:24

Item Info

Title:

Demetrice Lyles interview recording, 1994 July 22

Date:

July 22, 1994

Creator:

Lyles, Demetrice Irving

Contributor:

Whorley, Tywanna

Description:

Name: Demetrice Irving Lyles; Date of Birth: unknown; Place of Birth: Sawyerville, AL; Occupation(s): educator/scientist; health services; Residence: Tuskegee, AL
Informant ID: 674; Interviewed by: Tywanna Whorley.

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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RL00170-CS-1597
9bfc79a2-f636-413d-b9f9-c3c28c3b70a0
behindtheveil
4f0cda1c-d112-40e6-bb21-ceeb1afb71ea
ark:/87924/r4jm2fr45
4f0cda1c-d112-40e6-bb21-ceeb1afb71ea

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Demetrice Lyles interview recording, 1994 July 22

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1. Demetrice Lyles administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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