Fannie Cooley interview recording, 1994 June 07

Download
- Rights
- Limited Re-Use
  CC BY-NC 4.0
  More Rights Info
- Files (2)
- MP3 Part 1
- MP3 Part 2
- Please be patient with media downloads. They are often large files.
Share

Embed Code
<iframe src='https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4ks6wd91?embed=true' height='125px' width='100%' frameborder='0' marginwidth='0' marginheight='0' scrolling='no' loading='lazy' allowfullscreen></iframe>
Permalink

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4ks6wd91
Skip to Item Info

Loading the media player...

Files for this Item

Transcript

Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.

Stacey Scales	How long have you been in the city of Tuskegee?	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I have been here since June of 1969.	0:00
Stacey Scales	All right. [indistinct 00:00:14]?	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I came here to work.	0:00
Stacey Scales	To work?	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I came right out of the [indistinct 00:00:19], the University of Wisconsin, Madison. I came here in June.	0:00
Stacey Scales	Oh, really?	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Graduated in May. Came to Tuskegee in June.	0:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:00:35].	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I remember that [indistinct 00:00:38].	0:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:00:39].	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	No. [indistinct 00:00:42]. Yeah. Let me bring it close to home, then. [indistinct 00:00:54] Did you read the Atlanta Constitution.	0:00
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	All right. And Cynthia Tuffer's column. Cynthia is editor for the editorial page of the Atlanta Constitution, and she is from Mobile, Alabama.	0:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:01:13].	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	For me, it was a lot of fun because we [indistinct 00:01:19] we did not have the kinds of concerns that we were pretty much [indistinct 00:01:26] people. At that time, we were not as politically aware. And everybody else in about the same way, we were doing about as well as anybody else. And we just had a good time.	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	My family owned their home, and they owned the land that we lived on. And the people that I knew, all of the people owned their land. And of course, [indistinct 00:02:07] at that time that's willing to sell. [indistinct 00:02:12] had [indistinct 00:02:14] and a few trees, and we preserved the fruits.	0:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:02:20].	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I remember my grandfather [indistinct 00:02:27] just an outstanding man, excellent conversationalist. He said that he was always in the [indistinct 00:02:38]. That was the way he described [indistinct 00:02:42]. He was living in that place [indistinct 00:02:47] was before. I wasn't aware. [indistinct 00:02:56] that he said [indistinct 00:02:59]. He said the youngest.	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	He was a farmer, a carpenter. [indistinct 00:03:13] good speaker. He moved down from Arkansas. [indistinct 00:03:21]. He was a slave, and ultimately [indistinct 00:03:30] he was asked by his slave master to take his land.	0:00
Stacey Scales	Oh, really?	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Yes. Yeah. The slaves [indistinct 00:03:45] of the people who owned them. And this particular person asked him to take his land. [indistinct 00:03:57] to him [indistinct 00:03:59] other [indistinct 00:04:03] to do an outstanding job. Because sometimes [indistinct 00:04:07] so that [indistinct 00:04:14] carpentry skills as well as the farm skills. And all of those [indistinct 00:04:27] in the [indistinct 00:04:29].	0:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:04:33].	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Not a lot. He didn't talk a lot about it because, you see, [indistinct 00:04:40]. He was not [indistinct 00:04:44], which [indistinct 00:04:47] getting better. But I never heard him [indistinct 00:04:53] talk about that. He did speak [indistinct 00:04:57] on survival techniques, and he could do so many things. In fact, I called him the blacksmith of the family. He could do a lot of things. He [indistinct 00:05:16] out of a weed called [indistinct 00:05:26] meadow. And he could fish. He knew how to make the traps so that he could catch things.	0:00
Stacey Scales	Did [indistinct 00:05:37] anything?	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Well, I didn't [indistinct 00:05:41], but I [indistinct 00:05:42] enjoyed watching him. Because it was so exciting talking to him, and [indistinct 00:05:52]. Now [indistinct 00:05:53]. He left me before I could read, and his eyes [indistinct 00:06:02] when I learned to read. So we were good friends.	0:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:06:07].	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	We would [indistinct 00:06:11] newspaper. And the name of the paper was the Grips, the Grips Newspaper.	0:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:06:19].	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	No it was just the paper. [indistinct 00:06:24] that section of the country, we don't have Black and White [indistinct 00:06:33] pretty much anything. Yeah. The people, they were farmers, they were [indistinct 00:06:42] farmers, and sometimes [indistinct 00:06:46]. But I would say that [indistinct 00:06:52], people would still come and ask him for advice, when to plant, what crops, and all around his fields, he had every imaginable fruit tree that you could think of. Every [indistinct 00:07:09]. That's what he called it, coming off.	0:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:07:18].	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh, yes. Now this season of the year for black-eyed peas and okra and peas and all of those kinds of vegetables.	0:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:07:29].	0:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Squash. [indistinct 00:07:31]. In fact, he would grow so much that the neighborhood [indistinct 00:07:37] come out. In fact, my mother would say to the neighbors now, "You know, the okra is getting ready to come up, so when you come, maybe bring a trailer or a [indistinct 00:07:50]." You know, but she could [indistinct 00:07:55] bring your car and just load it full. Because two days later, you see, they'll have another crop. And it was a problem that we kept [indistinct 00:08:06] truck so they could [indistinct 00:08:08]. Oh, that was something. And all kinds of [indistinct 00:08:15] fruit trees, peaches, plums, you name it. [indistinct 00:08:23] called [indistinct 00:08:25] and [indistinct 00:08:29]. Ooh ooh. She [indistinct 00:08:32].	7:56
Fannie Richardson Cooley	The odor just was so good. [indistinct 00:08:46], and she had turkeys, chickens, geese, [indistinct 00:08:58] geese, and then [indistinct 00:09:04] so that all of that—	7:57
Stacey Scales	Would you ever take this stuff to the market?	7:57
Fannie Richardson Cooley	You have to understand that there was no such thing as a market.	7:57
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	7:57
Fannie Richardson Cooley	There was no market for anything. [indistinct 00:09:19] to the market. It was a barter system there. Whatever you had and the other people in the community had, could share and [indistinct 00:09:30] the people the fruits you like.	7:57
Unknown Speaker	And you can just bring you [indistinct 00:09:38] so that you can lift it yourselves.	7:57
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Okay. They did the same thing. [indistinct 00:09:44] we did not have, then we had whatever they need. [indistinct 00:09:50]. There was no money, but the people had all that they needed for getting by.	7:57
Unknown Speaker	[indistinct 00:10:02].	7:57
Stacey Scales	When you say [indistinct 00:10:03], what do you mean?	7:57
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Well, they could eat every day. They were not on welfare. They were not [indistinct 00:10:09]. You know what I mean? They were not homeless. They had their own plots of land and their own houses. Yeah, yeah. Their own houses. Yes, it really was. And you know there was a specialist in that community [indistinct 00:10:30] about everything. There was one man, for example, that made the syrup. And he made the syrup for everybody in the community. He grew the sugar cane, and a plant called millet. We called millet. [indistinct 00:10:50] from the— But anyway, but [indistinct 00:10:55] made the syrup, and they had [indistinct 00:10:58] this grind the juice out of the [indistinct 00:11:04], and you could cook [indistinct 00:11:07] in the vats, I think they called them, vats.	10:05
Unknown Speaker	[indistinct 00:11:13].	10:05
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:11:18]. Now we had us another family that did the slaughtering of the beef. Every week, you could get you a [indistinct 00:11:34] beef. And everybody in the community had beef. Yeah. They had beef, yeah. And during the winter months, then they would have the pork. And of course, [indistinct 00:11:52] eggs and chickens. And the big problem was what are we going to eat today [indistinct 00:12:03] anything, whether it's going to be a rooster, or bake a ham— Or whether you're going to cook a rooster and make stew or—	12:05
Stacey Scales	So there were never hard times?	12:13
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh, I'm telling you, there was [indistinct 00:12:21] fancy things. We had even Jerusalem artichokes. I was not aware that that was really a rarity of that section of the country until I moved around. Then I could appreciate the [indistinct 00:12:41], and there was never a dull moment there. Never a dull moment. Always something to do.	12:37
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I said we made [indistinct 00:12:42]. We used the bottom chairs. We would go fishing. We knew how to build [indistinct 00:13:03].	12:41
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:13:05].	12:54
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Now that's what I called it, digging for turnips. He had a cord that had a sharp edge on it that he could go down with the water and determine [indistinct 00:13:18]. And that [indistinct 00:13:23] was special.	12:54
Unknown Speaker	[indistinct 00:13:28].	12:54
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Because that was good to have some other kind of meat [indistinct 00:13:33]. That is right. And it [indistinct 00:13:43]. And you know that was the [indistinct 00:13:53]. Oh.	12:54
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:13:56].	12:54
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Mm-hmm. [indistinct 00:13:58] the farmers, yeah. My mother was a homemaker, and my grandfather had this— The women of the house had their work, and daddy [indistinct 00:14:11]. We had to do the washing, the ironing, the mending of the clothes, and the preserving of the food, the baking, and all of that. That was their [indistinct 00:14:19]. And the men worked the fields and [indistinct 00:14:23] cleaned the fish, and cleaned the yard and the house. The fires, so that's kind of what that was.	14:06
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Now my paternal grandmother was a teacher, and I'm [indistinct 00:14:46] that she taught because she [indistinct 00:14:49]. And she spoke very, very well, very good diction. [indistinct 00:15:00]. And they were all pro-education on my father's side of the family [indistinct 00:15:08] my mother's side. [indistinct 00:15:13] education. They believed that that was the way to some kind of [indistinct 00:15:20].	16:32
Stacey Scales	Did [indistinct 00:15:23].	16:32
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Hm?	16:32
Stacey Scales	Did they go to college?	16:32
Fannie Richardson Cooley	They did not go to college [indistinct 00:15:29]. Talk about my grandmother's talking?	16:32
Stacey Scales	Yes.	16:32
Fannie Richardson Cooley	She taught with fourth grade education. [indistinct 00:16:33]. So that's all that I have to say about that. My [indistinct 00:16:33]. Well, I was perceived to be a very well-educated farmer. She was not a [indistinct 00:16:33]. She sent me to school. She [indistinct 00:16:33] one and three. She died before [indistinct 00:16:33] I recalled the Christmas before that. She died [indistinct 00:16:33] peace of mind [indistinct 00:16:33] little support for growing [indistinct 00:16:33]. Yes.	16:32
Stacey Scales	Did they ever [indistinct 00:16:33]?	16:32
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Well, you know what? I did not hear that kind of talk there. Because my grandfather [indistinct 00:16:33] was really the kingpin of the community. [indistinct 00:16:33]. The Whites came to talk to him to sit under that big [indistinct 00:16:33] tree in his yard and just [indistinct 00:16:33] come and talk for hours and hours. Talk about [indistinct 00:16:33] how to fish, how to farm, when to plant this and that. And he was called Uncle Sam. His name was Sam, but it really was not a put down, but an affectionate kind of thing. Because when they came around, they were seeking the experience that he had. Now that was the memory that I had.	16:32
Fannie Richardson Cooley	So whoever trained him really trained him well because he had survival [indistinct 00:17:30]. He had survived [indistinct 00:17:34]. The people in that small community respected him.	16:33
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:17:44].	16:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:17:46].	16:33
Stacey Scales	Oh, yeah?	16:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Yes. In the circulation department, not the editor.	16:33
Stacey Scales	So you [indistinct 00:17:56].	16:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	About the [indistinct 00:17:58].	16:33
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:18:00].	16:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	About Tuskegee in those days? Fun, fun, fun. Yeah. It was really fun. You know, we didn't have [indistinct 00:18:10] things to do. I know that we must have been terribly naïve. But [indistinct 00:18:18] there was no [indistinct 00:18:21] or anything. Because you know what? We had about as much as any of the others. In fact, many of the [indistinct 00:18:29]. They would have liked to have traded places with us.	18:04
Stacey Scales	Mm-hmm.	18:32
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. [indistinct 00:18:42]. I think I'm not. Most people really respected and cared for each other and about each other. Let me give you one example of what I'm talking about. Nobody knew [indistinct 00:18:59] you lived on your own plot of land. You had your own farm. But my grandfather's farm sat on a White family's farm, and they had pastures around each other, where they had the cows. And when the Whites would spray their cows to keep the insects down, you know they sprayed all of the cows? And when my grandfather would spray the cows, they would spray all of the cows. You know?	18:58
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	19:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Because if by chance, they got through the wire, there was no [indistinct 00:19:40] or whatever, so you just needed to spray the whole thing anyway. And that's exactly what they do. And there never was time to— And you know what? Whoever found that the fence was down, they repaired the fence, and they told the other. And they told the other. Yeah.	19:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	In my grandfather's case, he had the know-how. So he could make certain that the fence was repaired right. You know?	20:06
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	20:14
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Yeah.	20:14
Stacey Scales	Mm-hmm.	20:14
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Uh-huh. Yeah. That's the way it was. And I told you about all these different kinds of fruits and so forth. Whenever our varieties of [indistinct 00:20:19] came around, we would make certain that our White friends had [indistinct 00:20:19] so they could enjoy them, too. And they would do the same for us, you know?	20:17
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:20:20].	20:20
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Now that is a good question. That's a good question. Even though my grandfather had [indistinct 00:20:48]. He was [indistinct 00:20:48] in 13 different houses. Oh.	20:20
Fannie Richardson Cooley	They had, you know all these old [indistinct 00:21:05], which you [indistinct 00:21:09] down. Well, they had one of those, and oh my goodness. They were fun to go in there, and somebody to bring them back. And my mother had what we call a Grafonola. You know a Grafonola, one of those record players? You know you start it with your finger like this and make it go. What else did we— Oh, mother was good with the [indistinct 00:21:40]. That was something. Oh, she could really put [indistinct 00:21:41]. And I know now that she always had an exciting project for me. I always had [indistinct 00:21:48]. She just said, let's make some pies today. Or she'd say, "Ruth, what kind of pies do you want us to bake today?" And [indistinct 00:21:58] the sweet potatoes that [indistinct 00:22:01] make sweet potato pies. [indistinct 00:22:04] you don't have those kinds of things. You could always get what you'd call [indistinct 00:22:09]. Oh.	21:02
Fannie Richardson Cooley	But she could make the best tea cakes that [indistinct 00:22:18], as well as good gingerbread. So those were the kinds of things we'd— And now, [indistinct 00:22:24] about these [indistinct 00:22:27], these things this beef, we'd give it up. Oh, it wasn't anything for them to have like a picnic on weekends. So they'd always have something. You could see the people coming up in there Saturdays with your bonnets on. That was when my paternal grand people would come and visit. My granddaddy would come down.	22:05
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:22:53].	22:05
Fannie Richardson Cooley	That's another thing. [indistinct 00:22:56] was you'd go and you'd [indistinct 00:22:56]. But that was the thing. That was town. You'd go to meet the train, or you'd go to buy the sugar, the things that you didn't grow at home.	22:54
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:23:13].	23:04
Fannie Richardson Cooley	That was [indistinct 00:23:18] for me. I didn't get to do an awful lot of traveling back in those times. I traveled to school. That was the furthest that I had ever gone from home.	23:04
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:23:32].	23:04
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Yes, I'm sure they had to be segregated back in those times. But you know I just wasn't even aware of it.	23:04
Stacey Scales	Really?	23:04
Fannie Richardson Cooley	That's right. I just wasn't even aware—	23:04
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:23:47].	23:04
Fannie Richardson Cooley	The water fountains and things like that, that didn't phase me, either. They were just kind of— You remember, when I was in school, a very poor friend of mine was [indistinct 00:24:01], and I went to go shopping downtown became more aware of that, I think here than I was down there. Everybody was just kind of in the same boat out there. That's about all I can say about that.	24:46
Fannie Richardson Cooley	But [indistinct 00:24:30] the town, that was my first real encounter with a water fountain. And that was just [indistinct 00:24:40], and she just enjoyed getting a sip of that White water [indistinct 00:24:49] get herself a sip of that White water.	24:46
Stacey Scales	You didn't try it?	24:51
Fannie Richardson Cooley	No, I didn't try the White water because I really didn't want to set off any kind of commotion or anything. But she would say, "I think I'm going to get me a sip of water." I said, "Go on, [indistinct 00:25:02]. Get you some." A sip of White water.	24:52
Stacey Scales	So do you think there was any difference [indistinct 00:25:12]?	25:05
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Well, I'll tell you the truth, for me, that was just never part of my experience. I didn't move around enough to be offended by that. I think the movement brought a lot of these things to our awareness because we had not had to do it. We always had [indistinct 00:25:34], and in fact, I guess I had always been in school or in a community where what we had might have been better than what they had. [indistinct 00:25:52] not because it was quite possible that [indistinct 00:25:59]. We had the things that we needed, and I'm pretty sure [indistinct 00:26:06] we would. Mr. Washington, I think, kind of saw to that.	25:18
Stacey Scales	Do you remember family [indistinct 00:26:17]?	25:30
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:26:19]. There's another [indistinct 00:26:21]. I was not here. I was not here at that time. That's another time. My son is much, much younger. And see, we're talking about the movement time now. You're talking about the sixties. And I was in school at the [indistinct 00:26:37] university—	25:30
Stacey Scales	So you [indistinct 00:26:40].	25:30
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh, [indistinct 00:26:41] was going on [indistinct 00:26:43] in Mississippi. And I taught at Alabama A&M University in [indistinct 00:26:49]. And then, I went onto Purdue University. In fact, I was at Purdue University about the time that some of those [indistinct 00:27:02]. So I had got to watch a lot of that [indistinct 00:27:08] and become aware, you know, that I hadn't even thought about that. I hadn't thought about that. Mm-hmm.	25:30
Stacey Scales	So was your [indistinct 00:27:22]?	25:30
Fannie Richardson Cooley	No. I did get a chance to see [indistinct 00:27:28] before he died. He died my senior year in high school. And I happen to have had a class [indistinct 00:27:35] where his lab was. So I got a chance to see him, and I was fascinated with him because he reminded me so much of my maternal grandfather who was such a good friend of mine. [indistinct 00:27:51] and the one who was so skilled at doing things.	25:30
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:27:59].	25:30
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:28:01]. I did not. [indistinct 00:28:04] just observing him. And he did not know [indistinct 00:28:10] wasn't too long, he was [indistinct 00:28:14] students, staff, and just [indistinct 00:28:20]. After a while, he would say, "Now, go on. Go on. Go on." And I thought we would wait for him to tell us to go home.	25:30
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:28:32].	25:30
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I was not [indistinct 00:28:36]. An old lady from Talasee, Alabama who went to school over here, and I went to school [indistinct 00:28:54] taught to do agriculture and taught them how to [indistinct 00:28:58] and to [indistinct 00:29:02]. She's not alive now. But she passed away. But I had a chance to interview her in the nursing home. She was the mother of my cousin's wife. And periodically, I would [indistinct 00:29:23] would go to the home to make certain that things were— I would go, too, sometimes. And one time, I went, and it just hit me that I needed to take my tape recorder and ask her to talk into that tape recorder. And I think she thought it was kind of funny. To me, it was [indistinct 00:29:39], and I could [indistinct 00:29:41] hear herself [indistinct 00:29:46] and how [indistinct 00:29:50].	29:16
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:29:54].	29:24
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:29:57] about that. She talked about how in their [indistinct 00:30:04] how they surprised [indistinct 00:30:09] by cooking [indistinct 00:30:14], and carried him to one of the dormitories. He [indistinct 00:30:22] just taught them a lot of things [indistinct 00:30:33]. But they seemed to have a lot of fun being with the [indistinct 00:30:38]. So that's about all I [indistinct 00:30:53].	29:24
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:30:57] talk about [indistinct 00:30:59] to you or [indistinct 00:31:01].	29:24
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Let me tell you, they kept a record of it. And I told you I worked in the library. They had these records in the library, and [indistinct 00:31:09] because they had some [indistinct 00:31:12] of materials on the lynching things. [indistinct 00:31:23] they did [indistinct 00:31:26] yearbook of a Mrs. Foster, and they [indistinct 00:31:30] in the archives over there. Mrs. [indistinct 00:31:33] Foster was not a good person to work on that. [indistinct 00:31:38] a good collection, I think. A lot of research on the lynchings that took place at that time. But I guess [indistinct 00:31:55] of it, I guess [indistinct 00:31:59], but our [indistinct 00:32:01] at that time just did not call for anything more than [indistinct 00:32:06].	32:01
Fannie Richardson Cooley	It's just terrible that that could happen to people. [indistinct 00:32:08] might have had something to do with that. [indistinct 00:32:08] programming [indistinct 00:32:08] and trying to shield us, I think, from some of the [indistinct 00:32:08] because as I think of it now, that could've been pretty devastating for a young person. And they were trying their best to channel us with the [indistinct 00:32:08]. They talk about your education. Keep your mind on your education. That was the way out. Go to the library. Read books. Read [indistinct 00:32:08]. And [indistinct 00:32:08] to be done around here in those days. [indistinct 00:33:10] and the dining hall. They didn't have a lot of time to sit around to do math. I mean many of the students did work their way through school.	32:06
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Now I cannot claim credit for having worked my way through school. I was [indistinct 00:33:33] of the work [indistinct 00:33:37] before me. But I had plenty of things to do. My first job was in the library. I was working in the library as a page in circulation.	32:06
Stacey Scales	How many [indistinct 00:33:51]?	32:06
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Well, I thought that the interaction was very good. The people would come, and see we're [indistinct 00:34:05]. I [indistinct 00:34:08] and especially the [indistinct 00:34:16] who had on their beautiful white dresses with their [indistinct 00:34:20] face and the red lines. Did you see pictures of that? Oh, that was absolutely—	32:06
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:34:28].	32:06
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Absolutely beautiful. You will have to try to see something in color. [indistinct 00:34:36] thing. So we had a plan to do. One, [indistinct 00:34:43] skipping stones. [indistinct 00:34:49] skirts and [indistinct 00:34:53] and all that. That was [indistinct 00:34:58] the community that came from miles and miles around. In fact, people would come from as far away as [indistinct 00:35:05] on horse and buggy now. You see, people didn't have cars. [indistinct 00:35:10] the way they do now. Cars, oh, that was something. That was [indistinct 00:35:15]. You could not ride around in cars. And the girls were on one side of the campus, and the boys were on another side of the campus. [indistinct 00:35:28].	32:07
Fannie Richardson Cooley	We had [indistinct 00:35:31]. We did not have [indistinct 00:35:34], but we had [indistinct 00:35:36] around social [indistinct 00:35:40]. My thought was [indistinct 00:35:43] social plans, and the mixed [indistinct 00:35:47]. And there was another club called Polka Dots. There was another one called the Tie House. [indistinct 00:36:00] Polka Dots, [indistinct 00:36:04]. Just based on what I think I see, we have the same kinds of responsibilities [indistinct 00:36:19] would have. You give something that was of substance from the university. [indistinct 00:36:27] a speaker or did something other than have purely social events.	35:21
Stacey Scales	Did you [indistinct 00:36:35].	35:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I did not play when I was in school. I played with other [indistinct 00:36:42] in Huntsville [indistinct 00:36:43] when I worked [indistinct 00:36:46].	35:21
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:36:49].	35:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh, now we used to talk about that. [indistinct 00:36:55] students [indistinct 00:36:57]. Let me tell you what happened. You know this [indistinct 00:37:34]. This town was divided into a [indistinct 00:37:34] figure in order to keep the Black people out, you have to [indistinct 00:37:34] or integrate [indistinct 00:37:34] over into this [indistinct 00:37:34]. Have you—	37:32
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:37:34].	37:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh, you should [indistinct 00:37:34] can tell you all about that stuff [indistinct 00:37:34].	37:33
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:37:34].	37:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	This was back in the fifties. And let me tell you, they would [indistinct 00:37:37] supposed to [indistinct 00:37:42] in the Constitution. [indistinct 00:37:46] the other [indistinct 00:37:49] Examiner did not know it, and because [indistinct 00:37:53] seven years ago. [indistinct 00:37:58]. Oh, I tell you about a lot of funny stuff.	37:33
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:38:14].	37:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Hm?	37:33
Stacey Scales	Do you remember [indistinct 00:38:13]?	37:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Do I remember the place?	37:33
Stacey Scales	Mm-hmm.	37:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh, no. I tell you. Oh, my goodness. That was fun. When you look back [indistinct 00:38:25], now that is interesting. [indistinct 00:38:28]. Isn't it fantastic that you can laugh about these things?	37:33
Stacey Scales	Mm-hmm.	37:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:38:36].	37:33
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:38:38].	37:33
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:38:40]. They were not encumbered with all of those heavy matters. Yeah. They always had their comeuppance. They always had people who were out there. Well, really they didn't even know what the lay of their land was. That's about what it was, and they would get in their messages. And they owed their representative, too.	38:47
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:39:14].	39:13
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Well, now Tony did work at the child's [indistinct 00:39:18] a number of other citizens. And he was here based at the time that they found the Tuskegee [indistinct 00:39:29]. They did that [indistinct 00:39:34], and that [indistinct 00:39:36]. Now he could tell you much more about that. He is the historian, and I'll defer to him any day on this.	39:43
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Now this rambling kind of talk that I've been doing, it's just memories of my own experiences. Yeah. Both from back then, and I admit that I was having a good time. My friend and I were competing with each other on seeing how much we could can, we could preserve. Now this was about age 12. Wasn't anything [indistinct 00:40:16] person who lived down the road a piece from me. And back in those days, you didn't do an awful lot of these things. Our parents [indistinct 00:40:25] full-time on how long you were going to go and play. You would say now you're going to play for an hour, and there was some discipline there. [indistinct 00:40:39] with each other and the preservation of our [indistinct 00:40:46]. Now we would compare them all. But all of that was just fun.	39:43
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I went to [indistinct 00:40:52] boarding school before coming to Tuskegee in high school. That was a school that was on the order of southern [indistinct 00:41:03] school [indistinct 00:41:05], Alabama now. But it was operated by the Bethlehem Association. [indistinct 00:41:18] female teachers live on the first floor, and the [indistinct 00:41:33] live on the [indistinct 00:41:35], the girls. And some [indistinct 00:41:37] the principal, and then the boys down there. But we all ate together in the commons, and did we have fun. Oh, we had fun. You know, [indistinct 00:41:51] plays. We played basketball. We played sports, and it was always something. [indistinct 00:42:02]	40:21
Stacey Scales	You went to high school [indistinct 00:42:04].	40:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Well, it's a different time. I was different [indistinct 00:42:17]. I've [indistinct 00:42:19] university. I [indistinct 00:42:23]. That was a good experience [indistinct 00:42:30]. Some of the more [indistinct 00:42:47], so that was a very good experience. We had the [indistinct 00:42:56]. You could walk over to the wine hall or to the union and never get out in the snow. So that was a beautiful experience.	40:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Then I went to the University of Wisconsin in Madison. I [indistinct 00:43:14], and I was [indistinct 00:43:17] system of [indistinct 00:43:26]. They had a junior scholar residence, and there was [indistinct 00:43:32] for students. They were all [indistinct 00:43:37] the University of Alabama. I [indistinct 00:43:41]. I worked my way through school, and I can [indistinct 00:43:55] this. All right. Thank you.	40:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Let's see. What else? [indistinct 00:44:08] experience the University of Wisconsin experience, very different. I had to [indistinct 00:44:17] with 536 residents. Yeah. [indistinct 00:44:27]. Mm-hmm. We had 10 counselors. [indistinct 00:44:32]. And of course, I was [indistinct 00:44:35].	40:21
Stacey Scales	Was the south very different from the north at that time?	40:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	No. You know, I guess it was, but I didn't know about it. What I can say is I didn't know of that much difference. And I think one of the major differences was that Blacks in the south tended to go to school. They have a higher education more than northern Blacks.	40:21
Stacey Scales	Really?	40:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Yeah. Northern Blacks were able to get good jobs in factories and industry and made far more money than southern Blacks. Because the southern Blacks, we had teenager occupations that they could pursue to [indistinct 00:45:37], that was teaching, preaching.	40:21
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	40:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	In the north, [indistinct 00:45:47], and my husband's father [indistinct 00:45:52] worked for [indistinct 00:45:53]. And I'm sure that [indistinct 00:45:59] far more money than either of us teaching.	40:21
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:46:06].	40:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	In the meantime, they had migrated north from the south, and they had instilled in them education. And of course, he had gone on and had gotten his master's degree and gotten his education, which was sort of his [indistinct 00:46:23], up the ladder. I'm really not one to make the best kind of comparison, I guess. What I can say is that I was invited [indistinct 00:46:44]. Yes, I can only speak about my personal experiences. I was invited to be a house [indistinct 00:46:51] at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, which was an honor because—	46:15

Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:00:02]	0:00
Stacey Scales	Uh-huh.	0:06
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I barely see [indistinct 00:00:08]. They allowed to live [indistinct 00:00:10]	0:06
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:00:13]	0:06
Fannie Richardson Cooley	And I come, you know, I just didn't even think about it, I was just another student, at the time when I was invited to apply for the position. I said, "Oh, you know, yeah, I might be too old," [indistinct 00:00:25]	0:15
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:00:27]	0:20
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Mm-hmm. So, I guess I have to [indistinct 00:00:31]. Or, I had always been accustomed to being [indistinct 00:00:48]. As one that [indistinct 00:00:54]	0:20
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:00:55]	0:20
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:00:56]	0:20
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:00:56]	0:20
Fannie Richardson Cooley	But you know, I can say this, you know I have always been kind of [indistinct 00:01:11]. In many ways, uh-huh. I, having been reared as an only child, [indistinct 00:01:16]. I had the run of the house myself. And then, [indistinct 00:01:23] brother came along it was about time for me to go to boarding school. [indistinct 00:01:28] boarding school. So, I have just never been one to [indistinct 00:01:33] a lot of people around. I told you about Rachel and how we used to preserve things together. We were good, we were good friends. And we [indistinct 00:01:42] our friendship [indistinct 00:01:42]. But, somehow or another, my activities have always been the type where I didn't see a lot of people who were not [indistinct 00:02:18] my way. [indistinct 00:02:18]. Or the dance thing. And people who were in charge going to go [indistinct 00:02:18]. People who were talking about the performers. You know what I mean?	1:15
Stacey Scales	Mm-hmm.	2:17
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I had one interesting experience [indistinct 00:02:25]. When they had a big conference there, they were trying to sensitize everybody about the movement and the Black experience and so forth. And, I [indistinct 00:02:38]. Several of the [indistinct 00:02:47] and I used to go down to this [indistinct 00:02:51]. Speakers and everything [indistinct 00:02:51]. Well, you know, they had planned and had all these [indistinct 00:02:51] and everything like that. And, [indistinct 00:02:51] and so when I talked to them [indistinct 00:02:51]. They were prancing up and down the steps. [indistinct 00:02:51] I knew he was talking to me. Or he was talking about me. And he was [indistinct 00:03:31] from the top of the stairs, you know? And I thought to myself, "If you think that I am going to go up there and have a seat and leave my house [indistinct 00:03:39], you've got another [indistinct 00:03:41]." Sister. Sister. [indistinct 00:03:47] everybody said, "Bonnie, he's talking to you." [indistinct 00:03:50]. He said, "If you can find a seat [indistinct 00:03:55]." They put all of us in [indistinct 00:04:15].	2:23
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:04:20]	4:15
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:04:26] about the university.	4:15
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:04:29]	4:15
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Uh-huh. You know, cultural events and so forth. They were—	4:31
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:04:33]	4:32
Fannie Richardson Cooley	No. No, no, no. That wasn't there, that [indistinct 00:04:36] conference. That was interesting. I would have been [indistinct 00:04:48] because if they were not going to allow all of the others to go in, then I would not have gone in either. [indistinct 00:04:53] but they were gracious and they allowed all of us to go in. And people also had [indistinct 00:05:05] and sat on the floor. Sat on the floor the whole time.	4:34
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:05:10]	5:09
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh, we [indistinct 00:05:14] a lot of [indistinct 00:05:15]. The one that wrote the book called, "The Way It's Supposed to Be." [indistinct 00:05:22]	5:09
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:05:23]	5:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:05:28]. He was doing some explosive kind of talk. You know, it [indistinct 00:05:36] off. That was really something else [indistinct 00:05:41]. Two or three days of all of these people who had [indistinct 00:05:49] to come.	5:21
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:05:53]	5:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh, sure.	5:21
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:05:56]	5:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Yeah. [indistinct 00:05:59] he spoke. You know, he's always talking about [indistinct 00:06:03]. One thing that I remember about what he said, [indistinct 00:06:10] his speech. And he said, [indistinct 00:06:16] protocol back then. He said when he told the story about this young man from the South, he was driving [indistinct 00:06:27]. And he met a person [indistinct 00:06:31]. And his children had gone North [indistinct 00:06:35] sent him a ticket. And, [indistinct 00:06:38]. And, he said [indistinct 00:07:00] first a Black man in the seat next to him. He said, "What time is [indistinct 00:07:10]?" The conductor [indistinct 00:07:12]	5:21
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:07:34]	5:21
Fannie Richardson Cooley	So that was what I remembered from Thurgood Marshall. And so, he said, "And I will lead from [indistinct 00:07:45]." And you know everybody just [indistinct 00:07:49]	7:39
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:07:50]	7:45
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:07:51]	7:45
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:07:54]	7:45
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh.	7:45
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:07:59]	7:45
Fannie Richardson Cooley	I don't know that I have said anything that is really meaningful [indistinct 00:08:07]. But it has been such a beautiful time just reflecting. And [indistinct 00:08:14] you know?	8:01
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:08:15]	8:13
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Uh-huh. Misses [indistinct 00:08:18] about Carver and how the children pulled pranks on him. [indistinct 00:08:26] because he would never do anything for himself.	8:20
Stacey Scales	Right.	8:22
Fannie Richardson Cooley	But he was always doing nice things for the children. And you know, [indistinct 00:08:34] he was given the piano.	8:35
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	8:36
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:08:37] for the children [indistinct 00:08:39], but he was there. And if he had had any inkling of the fact that they were going to recognize him, he would not have gone there. So [indistinct 00:08:49]	10:15
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:08:50]	10:16
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Oh, very humble man. Oh, very humble man. Yes. In fact, he's one of my favorite persons. [indistinct 00:09:00] very spiritual. Very much in tuned with, "The Creator." And, gave the Creator the credit for everything. He would not take money for his inventions.	10:16
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:10:16]	10:16
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Without the Creator to pull back the curtain, he could not do anything. And, I appreciated that.	10:26
Stacey Scales	Mm-hmm.	10:26
Fannie Richardson Cooley	And then I think [indistinct 00:10:27] he walked with canes. [indistinct 00:10:27]. He would come down to be massaged. He [indistinct 00:10:27]	10:26
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:10:27]	10:26
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Yes. I learned that from Reverend Richardson [indistinct 00:10:27] Richardson, who was the chaplain when I was in school, then came back to [indistinct 00:10:27]. And he would live nextdoor to the Carver family. [indistinct 00:10:27] I think that was over in that area there [indistinct 00:10:27]. Not too far from [indistinct 00:10:27]. Besides people who had what they called rheumatism back in those days. You know, today they talk about arthritis and bursitis.	10:27
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:10:40]	12:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:10:44]. But, the day he came down here, [indistinct 00:11:00] as you know.	12:00
Stacey Scales	Yes.	12:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Yeah. [indistinct 00:12:00]	12:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:12:00]	12:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:12:00]. Yes, and [indistinct 00:12:00] that museum. [indistinct 00:12:00] it's amazing. It's amazing. But I told you, I don't [indistinct 00:12:00] but, this place [indistinct 00:12:00]. Some more young people like you to think it through.	12:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:12:26]	12:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:12:28]	12:00
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:12:29]	12:00
Fannie Richardson Cooley	[indistinct 00:12:31]. Oh, it was exciting. I hope that I've been helpful in some way.	12:33
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:12:36]	12:35
Fannie Richardson Cooley	Yeah.	12:35

Item Info

Title:

Fannie Cooley interview recording, 1994 June 07

Date:

June 7, 1994

Creator:

Cooley, Fannie Richardson

Contributor:

Scales, Mausiki Stacey

Description:

Name: Fannie Richardson Cooley; Date of birth: 1924-04-07; Place of birth: Monroe County, AL; Occupation(s): educator; Residence: Tuskegee, AL
Informant ID: 659; Interviewed by: Stacey Scales.

Occupation:

Educator

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

See below

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-1574
f59a546b-938b-4fcd-ab63-e335457b5cba
behindtheveil
452b0d05-f092-48a5-84bd-11ff87b61340
ark:/87924/r4ks6wd91
452b0d05-f092-48a5-84bd-11ff87b61340

Permalink:

https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r4ks6wd91

Sponsor:

Sponsor this Digital Collection

Fannie Cooley interview recording, 1994 June 07

Transcript

Item Info

1. Fannie Cooley administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

More Info & Options

Fannie Cooley interview recording, 1994 June 07

Transcript

Item Info

Related Items

John Hope Franklin Research Center

More Info & Options